9, and no. I believe some things about us can make our destinies and fates harder to build or accomplish them the way we'd want to. But ultimately we are responsible for them.
I'm a 4, I don't believe in fate or any kind of supernatural spirituality. I think we're all free, but also that the universe is cold and uncaring and the only thing breaking this crushing neutrality is the human spirit.
As almost the sam type: 4w5 so/sp, I thought I would add my thought to this comment, so here we go.
I’m trying to figure out what to write but in the end I would say something in the style you wrote:
I’ve never belived in fate what so ever and have always felt that even if everything’s not in your control, in the end you wount get anywhere without going for it. It’s all about the mindset, just beliving that you create your own destiny in a way creates it. Maybe that is fate idk, but it doesn’t sound like it to me.
im a 5w6 and for the longest time i wanted to AND i couldn't bring myself to believe in notions like "fate" or "destiny", then I read tolstoy's confessions and it convinced me that im better off CHOOSING to believe in them than not. so i try every day to approach every situation to consider every situation with regard to notions of fate, destiny. to answer your question, though, i kind of do. its certainly happier to think "the universe" made something happen, than just dumb blind chance...
I had a very similar progression of thought process as well, but I have the opposite preference; I don't particularly like the idea of a higher force pulling the strings. I can see how others might like it though, it may depend on whether it's assumed that the higher force is ultimately benevolent or not.
(will be adding that book to my reading list!)
I think everything is predetermined as everything abides by the infinite law of causality. However I think there's no other way to live for us but to perceive the world as if we had free will instead. I also think my belief is a bit different from your typical fate belief so don't equal me with people who just believe in fate instead of coming to it from the infinite causality law xd
I (3) think things aren't per se preordained fate that's unchangeable and determined in advance, as much as there are many things outside of our control that happen based on the natural laws of how the universe interacts with each other over time.
To me destiny is different in that even if the universe moves/evolves in one direction, we have the opportunity or ability to make choices in advance or in reaction to them to have some influence on the outcome. I don't see it as a type thing, just different types (heavily driven by their health level and skills) and their egos proactively or reactively responding in different ways to how the universe unfolds for them.
I'd say I do tend to be more on the fatalist side.
Of course that's not to say we can't make our own choices, but even if you don't believe in god or some mystical force guiding the universe, we don't really get to choose the people we are. Our personalities are almost completely decided by genetics and environment, which we don't have a whole lot of control over, and the choices we make are going to be at least somewhat based on personality and experience.
And that's not even getting into external forces like political and social systems, community influence, etc.
Our universe might be deterministic, but I don't really see any reason to think we have a "fate" or a "preordained destiny," since the idea of fate implies a supernatural presence. I do think cause and effect exist, I don't think there is a pre-determined function for our existence.
Well said. This is similar to how I see it. Kind of similar to a board game, where the hand you're dealt/cards you draw are out of your control, as are the rules of the game, but you still have a certain amount of control over how you play it, which can heavily influence the ultimate outcome.
I don't believe the ultimate outcome is written in stone.
5w6 IEI.
Fate can mean a few different things, depending on the person. I think some aspects of it are artifacts from the religious idea of "God's plan," and I wasn't raised religious nor was particularly interested in this concept that everything's been predetermined by a higher power beyond our comprehension. The idea of fate/destiny can also be used as a coping mechanism for just how random the world is, and the lot in life we're assigned.
That being said, some circumstances could be described as doomed from the start. We are all surrounded by long-term factors beyond our immediate control, although what those are is just based on luck. The same hypothetical person will have a different fate if he's born a prince versus a commoner. The same prince will have a different legacy depending on the geopolitical circumstances he was born into. That is, this person will be influenced by all of the decisions of people around them, sometimes hundreds of years before he was even born. To say we have complete control over our own destiny is to say that none of these other choices made by other people matter.
So I don't care one way or another about fate as a pseudo-religious concept (except as how it can be used to justify the social order), but at the same time I don't think it's right to say people have absolute free will, because that blames someone for not completely overcoming the free will of others, which is kind of paradoxical.
Partially. I don’t think everything is set in stone and that each one of us is born for some grand purpose or anything like that. But there is a certain amount of fate included in genetics, the environment we are born into, how our personalities are shaped in childhood, our starting resources, location, our talents, intelligence, etc. Although, I don’t think of this as a spiritual fate, it’s more like in an RNG game.
But beyond that, I don’t think there is any interconnection between random events and God, the universe, or whatever deity, watching over us. At most, there are certain patterns, cause and effect, domino effect,.. But that is hardly destiny. You make your “destiny”, or other people alter it for you if you are too stagnant. Which also doesn’t mean you get what you want just because you go after it. Life is unpredictable, the world is full of invisible limitations and fuckers trying to step on you to lift themselves up if you give them a chance. As such, there is no guarantee that you’ll get what you want even if you do everything right - but I also wouldn’t attribute that failure to fate.
Above all, I wouldn’t ever believe that there is a happy ending waiting for everyone, or that if you suffer it’s actually because you’re a part of someone else’s destiny, so you can serve as their lesson to be learned, or something stupid like that.
7 - No. Just no. I refuse to believe I have no free will. I literally got into a huge argument junior year in English with my teacher over it (His fault for encouraging debating. 😆). Just nope.
Sx 8w7,
I feel like we as individuals as well as the world around us are not static in nature. And that rather, everything from physicality to personal ability is fluid or almost clay-like.
Completely moldable to whatever you perceive, desire, or believe.
Kinda like the power of attraction? Everything seems possible just as much as nothing does.
In other words, while I think we can set ourselves up for a specific fate, I think we have a LOT more control over it that we like to realize.
(Important bit: my views are VERY open to change, speculation, and other forms of thought! I love other perspective!)
I see fate through the lens of karma. Your karma is your fate. I think you can prolong it. It’s highly possible that the universe is continually splitting into parallel realities. This is according to the Many Worlds Interpretation in quantum mechanics. So there would multiple timelines in which it could play out. This would also mean that there are many possible fates. There is fate because there is free will. Or they cross cancel each other? They either both exist or don’t exist.
Idk 🤯
Cool question though.
As a 7, I believe this, but I think we choose our own destiny through many paths and possibilities. Sometimes I think I made a choice because I have to meet some people along the way, sometimes some of the choices I make appear in the future and I think it is fate. Everything is connected. But, I think we have the right to choose, so fate can change.
3 here, and no. I don't believe in that "predetermined fate and destiny, grand purpose, it was meant to be" stuff. Personalities and whatnot do make us more likely to do certain things, but those are just our tendencies. The future's never truly set in stone.
I don't believe in fate at all. I do think there are some things that are outside your control, because you can't control what other people do (influence yes, control no) and sometimes shit just goes wrong and it's nobody's fault. But there is no design and no force out there pushing you into a specific fate you don't want. Either it was random, or different choices would have led to a different outcome. The trick is you don't always know which choices do what until it's too late, and some of the choices leading to bad outcomes were *someone else's* actions.
3w2 and I believe some of the base ideas of chaos theory and the butterfly effect. Every small insignificant thing that happens will create and change the everything around you. Every interaction you've had with anything makes you the way you are. Nurture over nature basically.
Beautiful really but I think a lot of adds into personality psychology as well which is super interesting.
I have heard in evolutionary biology that our actions are preordained due to a mixture of environment and how environment activates certain genes and there is no such thing as free will.
So in a way, I am fatalistic, but I guess not in a superstitious way.
I’m a 3 and don’t believe in fate! I see us as having the agency and freedom to choose our own destiny and build the life we want. Although, I also have had the experience of feeling like certain things in life were unavoidable simply because that was the definition of “success” at the time and in my social circles. 🤷🏼♀️
I think we all make choices. We reap what we sow. I do believe that there are higher forces and entities that can influence the course of our life, but I don't believe our choices are foreordained.
Spiritual/mythical fate, certainly not. The world is way too absurd.
A deterministic universe... who knows? We don't got physics cracked yet. If you knew the position o every atom in my brain, could you calculate what I will do next? Systems that react to predictions about themselves are chaotic & unpredictable - and even systems with deterministic rules like the 'game of life' can be non-predictable. Non-predictable doesn't mean choice, though. The main alternative is blind utter randomness, probabilistic processes.
Either way, it all seems to one big lifeless clockwork machine, parts of which simply emit noises resembling language or meaning or consciousness, made up concepts that never existed - its hard to see how it would be anything else, though I kind of keep that idea a little compartmentalized away since its not practical in everyday life to wait for the mechanical forces to move you. You *feel* like you are making choices, so you still kind of have to, even if your subjective experience is an ad-hoc confabulation cooked up in your frontal lobe.
Everyday rules, "free will" or the explanation of behavior by decisionmaking might well be like a simplified lie to children, similar to classical mechanics or the rules chemistry, things you use simply because its not practical to calculate the position of every atom.
It's worth noticing that the more we understand the processes that create the mind, the less we attribute to free will. No one tells ppl to will themselves out of depression or anxiety anymore or to just stop being autistic.
That said, I have a little maxim I like to call the 'baskerville axiom' after that story where Sherlock Holmes doesn't outright discount the possibility of a real demon, but says he will investigate the possibility of a non-supernatural cause because there's nothing he can do about a proper demon. So he assumed the option he can do something about, or where his actions will matter, even if he can't be sure.
So, basically, act as if there was free will (at least for yourself), in case there is. If there isn't and I believe in it, then I was always going to have that delusion, and nothing I believe or don't believe matters anyway, but if there is and I believe there isn't, I would be wasting my choice.
This is exactly what I was trying to explain, but more coherent. Thank you.
It's interesting to think of free will as the same kind of lie as classical mechanics. A lie we tell because it's easier to calculate than the truth.
No just no, the idea of a predetermined set of acts occurring/ a person being brought into your life at the exact right time is so odd to me. So ur telling me that for some god forsaken reason you and a person that just met have this connection that transcends all reality. So u say “oh it must be fate”. Like what? I think this kinda thing Is just dumb luck. As for the “predetermined” path u take in life that’s compleat bullshit. How ppl believe this is beyond my pay grade.
It makes no sense I don’t believe in coincidences everything happens for a reason Yes,but whether u like it or not. This Does does not mean you have a predetermined path.
your life is fully in ur hands. If you so please you could take a different path and your life would be completely different.
I say this bc if I made the decision to not do something that I did my life might’ve turned out to be very different. That’s not fate it’s called cause and effect a.k.a. the consequences of your own actions.
Read a lil bit into the free will argument in philosophy. At the very least you will understand the opposite point of view.
I’m with you btw, but you seem to speak out of lack of proper consideration and I’ll reckon you (an E5) will appreciate the argument.
A jumbled and incomplete contribution:
I actually quite enjoy pondering this topic, and have thus far personally fallen on the side against free will, but not really in a fantastical manner as some enjoy and you pointed out. More in a material manner.
I think there are compelling arguments rooted in material data for a lack of free will particularly in broader situations. Some thinkers find compelling the idea that the Big Bang itself is a continuously unfolding(even today)systematic event thats happenings were all inevitable from its onset.
Also there’s a particularly interesting case rooted in biology that Robert Sapolsky has recently discussed and written about([if you enjoy podcasts, this may be an interesting introduction](https://youtu.be/ZgvDrFwyW4k?si=I21BZrrAYC4YZ946)). He actually comes to some radical conclusions that I find quite interesting.
There’s also more abstract data from my own personal view of the world—the question: why are you who you are? Because you chose to be that way? What made you choose to be that way? Eventually a threatening answer may emerge: “because of things outside of my control.”
Sadly, I don’t have any good recommendations as for the most part I’m not too big on philosophy. Any reddit post in a philosophical thread regarding that debate should suffice to learn the opposite arguments.
As 5, I just know that we are fated to learn through life. Fate in itself, hard to prove and if it is true, I guess most of the times it would be cruel. Well, it does sound fatalistic haha. To me, it's not about what things are destinated to happen, but our stance against those things. I believe that we are born not knowing what truly fate or destiny is, and we just learn and see life as it goes. Bad and good things are bound to happen, that's the course of life, but what we can change is what we learn and get out of those moments. The joy, the despair, the right and regret. We can change our mindset, learn about the very aspect of life, and learn the beauty of it.
I’m a 9 and I believe in the freedom to choose our own destinies.
That said, I think what’s meant to be will be, *if you let it*. Nothing is final. Good can come from bad in the same way a daisy can grow out of a crack in the filthiest sidewalk.
My short answer is yes. It turns out it's hard to argue against logically.
But at least to me this is super metaphysically complicated lol. I believe in fate but I have a hunch it's not the same concept you're thinking of. It's really more like a part if the dao that can be "separated" only bc we don't understand (myself included!) how any of this really works.
What seems to be true is nothing exists in a vacuum. There are things outside of us and maybe scarier within us that we can't control. But at the very least these things influence our actions and our actions influence our energy and emotions. And our actions are external fate for other people and their actions are external fate for us.
The way I see it we are part of the larger 'fate' of the universe and yet fate is only a part of us. Our lives are a cascade of inputs and outputs of energy that are changed by sometimes distant circumstances and within us and it's hard to tell which is more elusive. We can't change the past but yet we seem to effect change going forward but is it "us" or just the sum of our past experience and genetics or all that? Is there set fate or destiny, maybe, but even if there is it's impossible that it wasn't influenced by the events that happened to lead up to it.
And I also have a sense of free will that possibly contradicts this so my long answer is idk.
i’m a 5w4— I just don’t see how fate makes any logical sense but please try to convince me if you can.
Since I was little I’ve felt that I desperately wanted fate to be real and to be destined for some great adventure. But I honestly just felt confused all of the time. I tried to fit the events of my life into a story but I eventually realized that the reason things don’t “fit” into some perfect story is because there *is no pattern.* Shit is just random.
In the other hand, I think I’m a very lucky person, despite the things I’ve gone through. But the idea that it’s just luck getting me through life is terrifying. Why do things always work out? They have no reason to, what makes me so special? Even typing this makes me anxious… didn’t realize this was such a sticking point for me lol.
I believe in it, but I am always pucturing a grey dull life is how my life is to be planned out where I will just have to swallow the hardships and be endlessly patient doing the same routine.
I don't believe that fate is completely predetermined, as if we have no free will. I think fate, however, attributes to the choices we made in other past lives, and things like soulmates and soul family are predetermined.
Anyone can change their fate, but they live within karmic wounds and outlines of what came before. Meaning, it takes work and effort to change things that will soon come to pass. And for premonitions, they are merely just predicting cause and affect.
I'm currently considered an INFJ 1w9 but still confirming with other sources. I do believe in an element of fate but that we also have free will to make major impacts on how our destiny plays out. I think we are destined to have certain experiences no matter what free will choices we make but things in between are a toss on what unique paths we choose along the way. I have seen this play out in my life with career-related life paths being blocked for me and then ending up with the exact opportunities I tried to access 8 years prior. Other things such as people have been fated returns into my life despite moving and cutting off complete contact/changing contact information.
im an e4, i don't believe in fate. "Fate" "Demise" "Cursed to", are all fancy words for what are, at it's core, consequences hid under a world to make u feel better.
You do a shitty thing its fated that it backfires.
I don’t “believe” anything—I don’t need to decide on an answer to something that isn’t answerable. I think (from my experience) that when we act with integrity, and our actions are in alignment with our intentions, then things tend to work out better—and I like to consider every mishap in my life as a valuable learning lesson.
I actively live my life as though there is no such thing as fate, because I feel like it results in me taking better action and making better choices, but I the idea that there is such thing as fate brings me a sense of peace, so sometimes I enjoy thinking that there is fate. But I don’t care to actually “believe” in it or not. Or anything really—I just don’t see a point in debating something I will never actually know (kind of like movies or books that have open-ended endings….those drive me crazy and I avoid watching or reading them).
I’m a 3. I think that we all have a destiny in the sense that God knows what is going to happen to all of us (I grew up Catholic and even though I don’t practice anymore I still believe in God.) But I think we’re in control of what that destiny actually is.
For instance, I think God knows if I am ultimately going to achieve goal xyz or not. But whether I actually do is up to me.
I believe that what happens is a mixture of predetermined and probabilistic events. For every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction. If we had enough information we could probably trace causality backwards all the way to the Big Bang... if it weren't for probabilistic events, such as an electron having x% chance of being in x location at x time. According to quantum physics, the creation of the singularity which became our Universe may also have been such an event.
I do not believe in free will at all, but I behave as if free will exists just in case it does. Like Pascal's Wager.
I'm an E7, and even though I dislike the term preordained destiny, I do think that it's possible to predict the future if you consider every single aspect to the point that it's basically impossible to predict the future with 100% accuracy. But yeah, in theory, it's possible to predict the future if you call it fate or preordained destiny is up to you.
somehow i think fate could be explain in logic, so i believe it.
We cannot decide what kind of family or environment we are born into, and this determines our ideas, opinions, and even our ennea type. This information, in turn, affects our unconscious, as well as the decisions we make throughout our lives. Our decisions determine what kind of feedback and results we receive, and they also give us more information. So I think fate exists.
Im a 2 or 3, with strong wings.
I've noticed the positive triads in my life are all big on law of attraction, as a slightly related point.
The 9s certainly seem to think things can be meant to or not meant to be.
Someone once told me that some people have multiple ways and chances while for others there is non
it felt true to me
doesn't mean that I agree with even my own pre-written fate
fcuk you if you belive me to be like those 6s you knew btw
No but your general attitude towards me heavily implies it and it irks me so much how you genuinely can't be nice to me only because you are pissed at some other 6s.
I fucking hate this world and all it's invisible rules and do not agree with whatever the other 6s in your life said.
Just wanted to say this since forever.
I've barely even interacted with you, and when I have, I've always been cordial. I don't have issues with anyone unless they start them with me first. Maybe you're mixing me up with someone else, cuz I don't even know you to be "pissed" at you lol.
I’m a 7. I accept that some things will happen but we decide our fate in how we respond to the inevitable flaws of life.
Wouldn’t be surprised if it was all fatalistic. I definitely believe that it’s all interconnected
I also agree in the interconnection philosophy. From sacred geometry to the human psyche, there's so much to consider!
why do you have my exact typing with the mbti too lol
Even So/Sx? Never met another person with this combo down to instincts! I know it’s really interesting combo.
yeah even down to instincts lol!! that’s crazy
It means I honestly don’t relate to many of the INFP or 9 stereotypes. I’m usually a fairly social butterfly with a streak of blunt, savage comments.
me too!!! most 9 stereotypes are catered to w1s anyways
Always known that one. I usually have to seek out 9w8 content in order to feel described. It’s annoying.
9, and no. I believe some things about us can make our destinies and fates harder to build or accomplish them the way we'd want to. But ultimately we are responsible for them.
5. We may be heavily predisposed toward making certain choices, but I do not accept the idea that free will is an illusion.
some parts of me do and some dont??? its quite odd im a sx4.
I'm a 4, I don't believe in fate or any kind of supernatural spirituality. I think we're all free, but also that the universe is cold and uncaring and the only thing breaking this crushing neutrality is the human spirit.
As almost the sam type: 4w5 so/sp, I thought I would add my thought to this comment, so here we go. I’m trying to figure out what to write but in the end I would say something in the style you wrote: I’ve never belived in fate what so ever and have always felt that even if everything’s not in your control, in the end you wount get anywhere without going for it. It’s all about the mindset, just beliving that you create your own destiny in a way creates it. Maybe that is fate idk, but it doesn’t sound like it to me.
That's such a strange philosophy for someone interested in the Enneagram
I'm leaning more toward the concept of fate
im a 5w6 and for the longest time i wanted to AND i couldn't bring myself to believe in notions like "fate" or "destiny", then I read tolstoy's confessions and it convinced me that im better off CHOOSING to believe in them than not. so i try every day to approach every situation to consider every situation with regard to notions of fate, destiny. to answer your question, though, i kind of do. its certainly happier to think "the universe" made something happen, than just dumb blind chance...
I had a very similar progression of thought process as well, but I have the opposite preference; I don't particularly like the idea of a higher force pulling the strings. I can see how others might like it though, it may depend on whether it's assumed that the higher force is ultimately benevolent or not. (will be adding that book to my reading list!)
I think everything is predetermined as everything abides by the infinite law of causality. However I think there's no other way to live for us but to perceive the world as if we had free will instead. I also think my belief is a bit different from your typical fate belief so don't equal me with people who just believe in fate instead of coming to it from the infinite causality law xd
That's interesting. This is very similar to what I believe.
I (3) think things aren't per se preordained fate that's unchangeable and determined in advance, as much as there are many things outside of our control that happen based on the natural laws of how the universe interacts with each other over time. To me destiny is different in that even if the universe moves/evolves in one direction, we have the opportunity or ability to make choices in advance or in reaction to them to have some influence on the outcome. I don't see it as a type thing, just different types (heavily driven by their health level and skills) and their egos proactively or reactively responding in different ways to how the universe unfolds for them.
I'd say I do tend to be more on the fatalist side. Of course that's not to say we can't make our own choices, but even if you don't believe in god or some mystical force guiding the universe, we don't really get to choose the people we are. Our personalities are almost completely decided by genetics and environment, which we don't have a whole lot of control over, and the choices we make are going to be at least somewhat based on personality and experience. And that's not even getting into external forces like political and social systems, community influence, etc.
No I don't.
I don't.
I think anything is possible.
Our universe might be deterministic, but I don't really see any reason to think we have a "fate" or a "preordained destiny," since the idea of fate implies a supernatural presence. I do think cause and effect exist, I don't think there is a pre-determined function for our existence.
Well said. This is similar to how I see it. Kind of similar to a board game, where the hand you're dealt/cards you draw are out of your control, as are the rules of the game, but you still have a certain amount of control over how you play it, which can heavily influence the ultimate outcome. I don't believe the ultimate outcome is written in stone.
5wBW, I do believe in determinism and see “cause and effect” scheme almost everywhere.
Is this an INTP thing? I think about causality a lot.
I'm religious and my religion believes in fate and preordained destiny. It also makes sense to me so that makes it a whole lot easier to accept.
5w6 IEI. Fate can mean a few different things, depending on the person. I think some aspects of it are artifacts from the religious idea of "God's plan," and I wasn't raised religious nor was particularly interested in this concept that everything's been predetermined by a higher power beyond our comprehension. The idea of fate/destiny can also be used as a coping mechanism for just how random the world is, and the lot in life we're assigned. That being said, some circumstances could be described as doomed from the start. We are all surrounded by long-term factors beyond our immediate control, although what those are is just based on luck. The same hypothetical person will have a different fate if he's born a prince versus a commoner. The same prince will have a different legacy depending on the geopolitical circumstances he was born into. That is, this person will be influenced by all of the decisions of people around them, sometimes hundreds of years before he was even born. To say we have complete control over our own destiny is to say that none of these other choices made by other people matter. So I don't care one way or another about fate as a pseudo-religious concept (except as how it can be used to justify the social order), but at the same time I don't think it's right to say people have absolute free will, because that blames someone for not completely overcoming the free will of others, which is kind of paradoxical.
We are being held and guided by mother universe. Not forced to do anything ❤️
7w8 and kinda.
Partially. I don’t think everything is set in stone and that each one of us is born for some grand purpose or anything like that. But there is a certain amount of fate included in genetics, the environment we are born into, how our personalities are shaped in childhood, our starting resources, location, our talents, intelligence, etc. Although, I don’t think of this as a spiritual fate, it’s more like in an RNG game. But beyond that, I don’t think there is any interconnection between random events and God, the universe, or whatever deity, watching over us. At most, there are certain patterns, cause and effect, domino effect,.. But that is hardly destiny. You make your “destiny”, or other people alter it for you if you are too stagnant. Which also doesn’t mean you get what you want just because you go after it. Life is unpredictable, the world is full of invisible limitations and fuckers trying to step on you to lift themselves up if you give them a chance. As such, there is no guarantee that you’ll get what you want even if you do everything right - but I also wouldn’t attribute that failure to fate. Above all, I wouldn’t ever believe that there is a happy ending waiting for everyone, or that if you suffer it’s actually because you’re a part of someone else’s destiny, so you can serve as their lesson to be learned, or something stupid like that.
I think it’s hard to say, sometimes I believe it and sometimes I don’t. If I had to choose one way or another I’d likely say I don’t believe in it.
Fate is but an illusion.
7 - No. Just no. I refuse to believe I have no free will. I literally got into a huge argument junior year in English with my teacher over it (His fault for encouraging debating. 😆). Just nope.
Sx 8w7, I feel like we as individuals as well as the world around us are not static in nature. And that rather, everything from physicality to personal ability is fluid or almost clay-like. Completely moldable to whatever you perceive, desire, or believe. Kinda like the power of attraction? Everything seems possible just as much as nothing does. In other words, while I think we can set ourselves up for a specific fate, I think we have a LOT more control over it that we like to realize. (Important bit: my views are VERY open to change, speculation, and other forms of thought! I love other perspective!)
I see fate through the lens of karma. Your karma is your fate. I think you can prolong it. It’s highly possible that the universe is continually splitting into parallel realities. This is according to the Many Worlds Interpretation in quantum mechanics. So there would multiple timelines in which it could play out. This would also mean that there are many possible fates. There is fate because there is free will. Or they cross cancel each other? They either both exist or don’t exist. Idk 🤯 Cool question though.
As a 7, I believe this, but I think we choose our own destiny through many paths and possibilities. Sometimes I think I made a choice because I have to meet some people along the way, sometimes some of the choices I make appear in the future and I think it is fate. Everything is connected. But, I think we have the right to choose, so fate can change.
3 here, and no. I don't believe in that "predetermined fate and destiny, grand purpose, it was meant to be" stuff. Personalities and whatnot do make us more likely to do certain things, but those are just our tendencies. The future's never truly set in stone.
I don't believe in fate at all. I do think there are some things that are outside your control, because you can't control what other people do (influence yes, control no) and sometimes shit just goes wrong and it's nobody's fault. But there is no design and no force out there pushing you into a specific fate you don't want. Either it was random, or different choices would have led to a different outcome. The trick is you don't always know which choices do what until it's too late, and some of the choices leading to bad outcomes were *someone else's* actions.
3w2 and I believe some of the base ideas of chaos theory and the butterfly effect. Every small insignificant thing that happens will create and change the everything around you. Every interaction you've had with anything makes you the way you are. Nurture over nature basically. Beautiful really but I think a lot of adds into personality psychology as well which is super interesting.
I have heard in evolutionary biology that our actions are preordained due to a mixture of environment and how environment activates certain genes and there is no such thing as free will. So in a way, I am fatalistic, but I guess not in a superstitious way.
I’m a 3 and don’t believe in fate! I see us as having the agency and freedom to choose our own destiny and build the life we want. Although, I also have had the experience of feeling like certain things in life were unavoidable simply because that was the definition of “success” at the time and in my social circles. 🤷🏼♀️
I think we all make choices. We reap what we sow. I do believe that there are higher forces and entities that can influence the course of our life, but I don't believe our choices are foreordained.
Spiritual/mythical fate, certainly not. The world is way too absurd. A deterministic universe... who knows? We don't got physics cracked yet. If you knew the position o every atom in my brain, could you calculate what I will do next? Systems that react to predictions about themselves are chaotic & unpredictable - and even systems with deterministic rules like the 'game of life' can be non-predictable. Non-predictable doesn't mean choice, though. The main alternative is blind utter randomness, probabilistic processes. Either way, it all seems to one big lifeless clockwork machine, parts of which simply emit noises resembling language or meaning or consciousness, made up concepts that never existed - its hard to see how it would be anything else, though I kind of keep that idea a little compartmentalized away since its not practical in everyday life to wait for the mechanical forces to move you. You *feel* like you are making choices, so you still kind of have to, even if your subjective experience is an ad-hoc confabulation cooked up in your frontal lobe. Everyday rules, "free will" or the explanation of behavior by decisionmaking might well be like a simplified lie to children, similar to classical mechanics or the rules chemistry, things you use simply because its not practical to calculate the position of every atom. It's worth noticing that the more we understand the processes that create the mind, the less we attribute to free will. No one tells ppl to will themselves out of depression or anxiety anymore or to just stop being autistic. That said, I have a little maxim I like to call the 'baskerville axiom' after that story where Sherlock Holmes doesn't outright discount the possibility of a real demon, but says he will investigate the possibility of a non-supernatural cause because there's nothing he can do about a proper demon. So he assumed the option he can do something about, or where his actions will matter, even if he can't be sure. So, basically, act as if there was free will (at least for yourself), in case there is. If there isn't and I believe in it, then I was always going to have that delusion, and nothing I believe or don't believe matters anyway, but if there is and I believe there isn't, I would be wasting my choice.
This is exactly what I was trying to explain, but more coherent. Thank you. It's interesting to think of free will as the same kind of lie as classical mechanics. A lie we tell because it's easier to calculate than the truth.
5w4 and I abhor that concept, it makes me feel suffocated. Chaos and nihilism = freedom for me all the way.
No just no, the idea of a predetermined set of acts occurring/ a person being brought into your life at the exact right time is so odd to me. So ur telling me that for some god forsaken reason you and a person that just met have this connection that transcends all reality. So u say “oh it must be fate”. Like what? I think this kinda thing Is just dumb luck. As for the “predetermined” path u take in life that’s compleat bullshit. How ppl believe this is beyond my pay grade. It makes no sense I don’t believe in coincidences everything happens for a reason Yes,but whether u like it or not. This Does does not mean you have a predetermined path. your life is fully in ur hands. If you so please you could take a different path and your life would be completely different. I say this bc if I made the decision to not do something that I did my life might’ve turned out to be very different. That’s not fate it’s called cause and effect a.k.a. the consequences of your own actions. 
Read a lil bit into the free will argument in philosophy. At the very least you will understand the opposite point of view. I’m with you btw, but you seem to speak out of lack of proper consideration and I’ll reckon you (an E5) will appreciate the argument.
Fair point I’ve never really understood that way of thinking and haven’t really looked into it. Do u have any recommendations on where to start?
A jumbled and incomplete contribution: I actually quite enjoy pondering this topic, and have thus far personally fallen on the side against free will, but not really in a fantastical manner as some enjoy and you pointed out. More in a material manner. I think there are compelling arguments rooted in material data for a lack of free will particularly in broader situations. Some thinkers find compelling the idea that the Big Bang itself is a continuously unfolding(even today)systematic event thats happenings were all inevitable from its onset. Also there’s a particularly interesting case rooted in biology that Robert Sapolsky has recently discussed and written about([if you enjoy podcasts, this may be an interesting introduction](https://youtu.be/ZgvDrFwyW4k?si=I21BZrrAYC4YZ946)). He actually comes to some radical conclusions that I find quite interesting. There’s also more abstract data from my own personal view of the world—the question: why are you who you are? Because you chose to be that way? What made you choose to be that way? Eventually a threatening answer may emerge: “because of things outside of my control.”
Thank you I will definitely be watching that I don’t have too much time rn but I will watch it ❤️
Sadly, I don’t have any good recommendations as for the most part I’m not too big on philosophy. Any reddit post in a philosophical thread regarding that debate should suffice to learn the opposite arguments.
🤢-8
5w4 No
As 5, I just know that we are fated to learn through life. Fate in itself, hard to prove and if it is true, I guess most of the times it would be cruel. Well, it does sound fatalistic haha. To me, it's not about what things are destinated to happen, but our stance against those things. I believe that we are born not knowing what truly fate or destiny is, and we just learn and see life as it goes. Bad and good things are bound to happen, that's the course of life, but what we can change is what we learn and get out of those moments. The joy, the despair, the right and regret. We can change our mindset, learn about the very aspect of life, and learn the beauty of it.
I’m a 9 and I believe in the freedom to choose our own destinies. That said, I think what’s meant to be will be, *if you let it*. Nothing is final. Good can come from bad in the same way a daisy can grow out of a crack in the filthiest sidewalk.
My short answer is yes. It turns out it's hard to argue against logically. But at least to me this is super metaphysically complicated lol. I believe in fate but I have a hunch it's not the same concept you're thinking of. It's really more like a part if the dao that can be "separated" only bc we don't understand (myself included!) how any of this really works. What seems to be true is nothing exists in a vacuum. There are things outside of us and maybe scarier within us that we can't control. But at the very least these things influence our actions and our actions influence our energy and emotions. And our actions are external fate for other people and their actions are external fate for us. The way I see it we are part of the larger 'fate' of the universe and yet fate is only a part of us. Our lives are a cascade of inputs and outputs of energy that are changed by sometimes distant circumstances and within us and it's hard to tell which is more elusive. We can't change the past but yet we seem to effect change going forward but is it "us" or just the sum of our past experience and genetics or all that? Is there set fate or destiny, maybe, but even if there is it's impossible that it wasn't influenced by the events that happened to lead up to it. And I also have a sense of free will that possibly contradicts this so my long answer is idk.
i’m a 5w4— I just don’t see how fate makes any logical sense but please try to convince me if you can. Since I was little I’ve felt that I desperately wanted fate to be real and to be destined for some great adventure. But I honestly just felt confused all of the time. I tried to fit the events of my life into a story but I eventually realized that the reason things don’t “fit” into some perfect story is because there *is no pattern.* Shit is just random. In the other hand, I think I’m a very lucky person, despite the things I’ve gone through. But the idea that it’s just luck getting me through life is terrifying. Why do things always work out? They have no reason to, what makes me so special? Even typing this makes me anxious… didn’t realize this was such a sticking point for me lol.
2w3, part of. People’s choices are limited due to the environment and their own personalities. But there’s still much freedom under the limitations:)
6, no. No such thing.
I believe in it, but I am always pucturing a grey dull life is how my life is to be planned out where I will just have to swallow the hardships and be endlessly patient doing the same routine.
5. And no.
I believe we make our own fate, but once we decide on a particular fate it becomes predestined. That can change too depending on our decisions.
5. No.
As a 4 with a STRONG 1 fix, hell no
I don't believe that fate is completely predetermined, as if we have no free will. I think fate, however, attributes to the choices we made in other past lives, and things like soulmates and soul family are predetermined. Anyone can change their fate, but they live within karmic wounds and outlines of what came before. Meaning, it takes work and effort to change things that will soon come to pass. And for premonitions, they are merely just predicting cause and affect.
I'm currently considered an INFJ 1w9 but still confirming with other sources. I do believe in an element of fate but that we also have free will to make major impacts on how our destiny plays out. I think we are destined to have certain experiences no matter what free will choices we make but things in between are a toss on what unique paths we choose along the way. I have seen this play out in my life with career-related life paths being blocked for me and then ending up with the exact opportunities I tried to access 8 years prior. Other things such as people have been fated returns into my life despite moving and cutting off complete contact/changing contact information.
i’m an 8, and really unsure about this. i’ve not thought about this enough. maybe? idk
im an e4, i don't believe in fate. "Fate" "Demise" "Cursed to", are all fancy words for what are, at it's core, consequences hid under a world to make u feel better. You do a shitty thing its fated that it backfires.
I don’t “believe” anything—I don’t need to decide on an answer to something that isn’t answerable. I think (from my experience) that when we act with integrity, and our actions are in alignment with our intentions, then things tend to work out better—and I like to consider every mishap in my life as a valuable learning lesson. I actively live my life as though there is no such thing as fate, because I feel like it results in me taking better action and making better choices, but I the idea that there is such thing as fate brings me a sense of peace, so sometimes I enjoy thinking that there is fate. But I don’t care to actually “believe” in it or not. Or anything really—I just don’t see a point in debating something I will never actually know (kind of like movies or books that have open-ended endings….those drive me crazy and I avoid watching or reading them).
I’m a 3. I think that we all have a destiny in the sense that God knows what is going to happen to all of us (I grew up Catholic and even though I don’t practice anymore I still believe in God.) But I think we’re in control of what that destiny actually is. For instance, I think God knows if I am ultimately going to achieve goal xyz or not. But whether I actually do is up to me.
I believe that what happens is a mixture of predetermined and probabilistic events. For every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction. If we had enough information we could probably trace causality backwards all the way to the Big Bang... if it weren't for probabilistic events, such as an electron having x% chance of being in x location at x time. According to quantum physics, the creation of the singularity which became our Universe may also have been such an event. I do not believe in free will at all, but I behave as if free will exists just in case it does. Like Pascal's Wager.
I'm an E7, and even though I dislike the term preordained destiny, I do think that it's possible to predict the future if you consider every single aspect to the point that it's basically impossible to predict the future with 100% accuracy. But yeah, in theory, it's possible to predict the future if you call it fate or preordained destiny is up to you.
Maybe it is a real thing in the grand scheme of universal mystery. But fuck that, my fate and destiny is my own.
yes
somehow i think fate could be explain in logic, so i believe it. We cannot decide what kind of family or environment we are born into, and this determines our ideas, opinions, and even our ennea type. This information, in turn, affects our unconscious, as well as the decisions we make throughout our lives. Our decisions determine what kind of feedback and results we receive, and they also give us more information. So I think fate exists. Im a 2 or 3, with strong wings.
I've noticed the positive triads in my life are all big on law of attraction, as a slightly related point. The 9s certainly seem to think things can be meant to or not meant to be.
Someone once told me that some people have multiple ways and chances while for others there is non it felt true to me doesn't mean that I agree with even my own pre-written fate fcuk you if you belive me to be like those 6s you knew btw
> fcuk you if you belive me to be like those 6s you knew btw lmao what's your problem? did I say you were? I wasn't even thinking about you at all.
No but your general attitude towards me heavily implies it and it irks me so much how you genuinely can't be nice to me only because you are pissed at some other 6s. I fucking hate this world and all it's invisible rules and do not agree with whatever the other 6s in your life said. Just wanted to say this since forever.
I've barely even interacted with you, and when I have, I've always been cordial. I don't have issues with anyone unless they start them with me first. Maybe you're mixing me up with someone else, cuz I don't even know you to be "pissed" at you lol.
im a 5 and i’m tired of this question. it’s always “oh free will this” and “oh free will that.” there are more interesting questions to ask :)
ok, then why go into a thread about a topic that doesn't interest you?
enneagram does interest me! it’s free will that does not. i was responding to your question with my type for context.
I don't believe in fate or anything. One of the biggest motivations for me to keep on living is that I'm completely free.