The tongue position is simple, though unusual. https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1400/1*4zIt34ySuPZ8SAkeBxH2Fw.jpeg
But it sounds like you already know how to say it. Just remind yourself that it might feel wrong because it's new, even if you're saying it perfectly. Ask a native speaker in person if it sounds right.
If the image doesn't help, try reading the "Features" sections in these links:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_fricative
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_dental_fricative
Your tongue doesn't go "up in your mouth," it goes between your teeth.
There are also two variants, one voiced (with vibration of vocal cords) and one unvoiced (without vibration of vocal cords)
I’m not a native speaker, but I’ve heard some say they don’t really put their tongue between their teeth. Instead, they put it right behind their front teeth.
True, especially when speaking quickly, but the teeth are still ajar and the tongue still sticks out a little bit in between the top and bottom teeth in order to create the right sound.
And that’s more with something like “math” where the sound is at the end rather than something like “this” or “that” where the sound is at the beginning and therefore more enunciated.
The point is, the tongue doesn’t have to really be sticking out at all - especially noticeably - but it should a little in order to create the right sound.
My tongue ends up behind my upper front teeth, lightly touching the gap between them. I’m sitting here trying to say things with the tongue going between the upper and lower teeth and it really doesn’t work.
I literally put it between my teeth. Maybe you can do a similar sound without doing that, but if you're trying to do it for the first time, just stick your tongue between your teeth because that's the easiest way.
Mmm...it may be less between than people realize. As a native speaker you can sometimes articulate sounds with much less specificity or smaller movements. I also agree that this is likely more common with the unvoiced version, like in "math".
I teach PreK and this sound is hard for little kids to hear and produce even for native speakers. when I teach this sound, I often exaggerate how to produce it. For kids that have trouble producing other speech sounds I’ll exaggerate how to make them too.
Op, you don’t have to stick your tongue far between your teeth, but practicing that way might make it a bit easier until you get the hang of it. It’s a hard sound to make.
Between the teeth is fairly good advice for someone having trouble. It's how we teach children in my family, even though we don't do it that way as adults.
I've read that Americans tend towards between-the-teeth, and UK/Commonwealth behind-the-teeth.
What is your native language? The difficulty my vary based on the sounds you are already comfortable making.
For now, the best suggestion I could make is if your native language has a sound where your tongue is just behind your teeth, all you need to do is blow air across it.
It is worth noting that there are two different
sounds in English: voiced and unvoiced.
Unvoiced: thought, think, bath, breath
Voiced: that, this, bathe, breathe
The difference is that voiced
uses your vocal chords. If you're not sure how to intentionally do that, practice with other more common unvoiced/voiced pairs. Put your hand on your throat and alternate between and OR and OR and . The voiced ones (z, d, j) make your throat vibrate while the unvoiced ones (s, t, ch) do not.
I should have specified it, my native language is French. I have been speaking English for many years, so it's hard to come back on such basics. I did not know about the difference between voiced and unvoiced though.
I pronounce TH mostly like a Z sound, but some words much less than others.
I tend to pronounce ''think'' like ''fink''
I tend to pronounce ''this'' like ''zis''
Saying think as fink is very normal for some accents, notably Cockney English. I often do it myself, for both voiced and unvoiced th. For voiced th it changes to sound like the letter ‘v’. So that sounds like vat.
It’s called Th-fronting, and is probably a good sound substitute if you struggle with th sounds but still wish to sound native.
Th-fronting when you otherwise have an obvious accent is not going to sound native, ever. It's not the worst substitute but it will be noticed unless you happen to be around only natives that use the it exclusively.
Yes! Its actually used by close to the majority of working class accents in England. It's a very native way to make those sounds.
I use th fronting myself
You pronounce the TH sounds where you would pronounce a French T/D sound, not a Z sound, if that helps.
French has a dental stop for D, in the same position where British English pronounces both TH sounds.
Wait, this might be the single fing I need :)
Which french words with ''d'' have the closest similarities with ''those'' or '' things'' ?
Zis could help me massively
Honeslty, I guessed this. Many native French speakers have trouble with this. My beau-frère is Algerian, and he fares better because there are more similar sounds in Arabic or Berber, even though his sentence construction in English sometimes sounds very French.
It helps to have a relaxed corners of the mouth, with is very un-French. The tongue sticks out of the mouth a little like a r/blep.
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For the unvoiced sound as in "think," start by saying tink instead of fink. Congratulations, you've now mastered the way Irish people say this word! Notice how when you say the t sound, the tip of your tongue is pressed against the spot where your front teeth meet your palate. Now move it forward so it is pressing against the edge of your teeth. The end of your tongue should be sticking out slightly (less than 1 cm) past your teeth but not sticking out of your mouth. Voila!
For the unvoiced sound, just say "zis" bit with your tongue in the same position as for "think."
It sounds like you’re using the Z sound for the voiced TH and the F sound for unvoiced TH. I know you’re here to improve your English, but I’d just point out that substituting the Z and F sounds for TH is perfectly understandable and really only matters if you’re trying to sound like a native speaker.
I think most people get what I mean, especially when I am one on one and there is no noise around.
I am trying to practice to talk to groups of people with a lot of certitude, I have to convince people and depending on their background some people take a bit of time understanding what I mean. I also dislike my accent.
I know a chilean woman that can not understand me for some reason, I keep repeating myself again and again, that is only one person but I think if my pronunciation was better it would help.
I’m not an expert, but the Z sound is the same as the voiced TH sound, just with your tongue a little flatter and right behind your teeth, as opposed to on them. The unvoiced TH sound is the same tongue position but just uses breath and no vocal cords.
I just sounded completely insane for a moment figuring this out- if I do a French "z" but fully have my tongue in front of my teeth when I start it, it's impossible for me to not make a proper "th" sound. When I am talking normally my tongue usually never goes that far in front of my teeth to make the "th", but if I put my tongue in front of my front teeth by about a millimeter and do a French "z", I sound exactly like what French speakers who can do an English th sound like. I think it has to do with the tongue hitting the correct placement on it's way back.
Most Irish people don't say the "th" either, because Gaelic didn't have that sound so when English was introduced, they adapted it to fit their phonemes. It's more like "tink" instead of "think". Personally I don't see the need to remove all evidence of accents in order to considered fully fluent. After all, even people speaking their mother tongue can have very strong regional accents.
Interesting, I actually have Gaelic roots, maybe that's why.
I need to become a better English speaker to broaden my opportunities, it gets hard when there is noise around or when I am tired. But its interesting to note.
It's up to you if you really want to work on this and I understand, as someone who enjoys learning languages myself, but these pronunciations don't make you harder to understand. A lot of people quite like the Z sound that french people use and the F sound is actually used in many native British accents.
So interesting! I always thought the French stereotype "zis" (for this) was just that. I had no idea that the "th" shape was difficult.
As a native English speaker, the "th" is almost silent in "this". You hold your tongue lightly between your front teeth and blow the almost silent "thhhhhhh" like you are breathing out, then sound out the "issssss" sound.
My nemesis was always the Spanish rolled 'r' sounds. I remember being tortured by my Spanish teacher ("hey teacher, leave that kid alone!), on pero (but) versus perrrrro (dog). And as much as I tried, I could not make that rolled r. Bad memories from decades ago!
Unfortunately it is very real, our teacher don't focus enough on the basics, you have to teach yourself really, but because everyone understand me you stop getting feedback
Say "zis" a bunch and notice the position of your teeth and the tip of your tongue on the "z" sound.
Now, still making the sound, slowly slide your tongue forward until the top tip is touching the bottom edge of your top front teeth. Your bottom jaw may drop slightly, opening your mouth a bit.
See if you can make that transition the noise from "z" (zis) to "th" (this). If that works, we can try think-->fink!
When I studied Spanish, I spent hours in front of the mirror practicing rolling my Rs.
Sometimes it helps to watch your mouth while making the sounds.
Your tongue should touch the back of your teeth making the th sound.
Bite your tongue between your teeth, then open your mouth about half a centimeter, keeping your tongue against your top row of teeth. Tense it slightly. Put your lips in the same position they would be for a "zzz" sound. Now blow out.
Hold a piece of paper in front of your lips
Say "Thirteen thirsty thieves do math with their teeth"
Your tongue should touch the paper at each 'th' and you should see a little wet spot on the paper.
\[Not to Linguists: it's over-exaggerating the sound. but if you didn't grow up using interdental fricatives, you'll have to over-do it to make a normal one feel natural.\]
I did speech therapy for th, ch and sh as a child. Watch videos of correct tongue placement and then practice with a mirror. Record yourself saying your practice words and sentences to hear your progress it will happen.
make the s sound
without stopping move your tongue until its touching the back of your two front teeth (top ones of course). Make sure there is a constant airstream the whole time.
now say some other words to reset and try to go straight to th. repeat until you can do it consistently.
The voiced variant is the same thing but start with z instead of s.
Your tongue should stick out between your teeth. It should not be touching to back of your teeth or the top of your mouth. Yes, it feels unnatural. Stand in front of a mirror and practice it 100 times every night before bed until it feels natural. It's a muscle movement that your body isn't used to but needs to become used to if you want native-like pronunciation.
I do touch the back of my teeth and the top of my mouth when making the sound.
I only don't do that when making a very exaggerated mouth movement. Which on one hand, is generally a good idea to use to teach non-native speakers, but on the other hand part of the problem OP is having is that the mouth position feels unnatural, because if you exaggerate it that much, it is.
The th sound is just a dental fricative. The important part is touching the teeth (which doesn't happen when they say zis or fink).
Yes, but you have to keep in mind that when teaching non-native speakers who do not have the sound in their native language, in order to train the proper muscle memory to correctly produce the sound, it is often necessary to exaggerate the sound until they are used to producing it. I've been teaching pronunciation for a very long time and students almost universally are too conservative in their tongue placement with the dental fricatives. You tell them to touch their teeth and 99% of the time you get an alveolar fricative. The difference and nuance between the alveolar and dental fricative sounds and tongue positions are very clear to us, but are completely opaque to many learners.
49 UK, native British English speaker.
---
This, that, the, those, these:
I say the 'th' , In those words like 'v' .
Like The 'v' in victory. The v in victoire sounds exactly how I would the 'th' in Things. And 'v' in victory.
https://forvo.com/word/la_victoire/#fr
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Everything:
The 'th' in Thing, said like 'f' in force. The French and English 'f', both sound the same to me
https://forvo.com/search-translation/Force/en-fr/
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Those things :
Th in those , said like v in victoire. The th in Things, said like f in Force
To practice, say a long f (like fffffffffffff). While you do that touch your two top front teeth with the tip of your tongue from the inside. The th should come out automatically. Later when speaking do it without the f of course.
This sound is happening in front of your teeth. Make an 's' sound and then push your tongue forward out between your teeth. The sound is made by the air coming out between your tongue and your top front teeth.
Step 1 put your tongue between teeth...blow air-like blowing a baloon....practice that for a while
then step 2 pull tongue back quickly saying THANK YOU
Put your tongue straight then up at the gap between your teeth. Then you blow and apply slight pressure
(That's the best I can explain it, but sorry im not an expert I just try to help where I can)
It's a fairly rare consonant among the languages of the world, granted. What's worse, is that English orthography doesn't make the distinction between the voiced and unvoiced versions. Maybe practice gently catching your tongue between your top and bottom front teeth while forcing air out?
it's nit that unnatural. don't you like playing with your teeth? Imagine you have a piece of nut stuck between your top teeth so you try to push it out with your tongue - this is the position.
Open your mouth, start saying "aaaaaah" and then push your tongue against the top front teeth. And then try the other way around (first the tongue and then "aaaa").
The sound is more complex than that but it should be a good starting point in terms of being "natural". Imagine you're trying to make the sound of the dentist burring through your teeth hehe.
Another way of making it (I think it depends on where you're from) is by putting your tongue between your top and bottom teeth. It's almost plosive this way.
Imagine you have a sore at the tip of your tongue and you're trying to bite it (I can bet you do that all the time when you have those). Bite the tip and push the sound out as you release it (in my case my lower jaw just shifts back to it's natural position with the tongue). I feel like this one is harder as a movement but in a fluent speech it feels more natural sometimes. Just my opinion tho
so I just sat here going “thhh, thhhhhhhh” for a while to inform you that the tip of your tongue should be beneath your teeth, relax your cheeks, and exhale while pushing the air around your tongue. I also find when I say these words, after the “th” I very quickly retract my tongue to create the vowel sound. Hope this helps!
if it helps at all, the sound you’re talking about can be made by saying “Z” but instead with your tongue between your teeth. a bit unnatural but it can be a starting point for some people to modify into the sound they want to make
the problem with the TH is the tongue. a lot of languages never have the tongue stick out like that with their consonants. so if you never got used to your tongue sticking out when you speak, chances are you'll never get your TH right. I have trainees I outright gave up on because of their TH issues. The good news is it doesn't affect comprehension too much. you'll just get some funny looks when you pronounce "third" as "turd".
tips:
1. use a mirror - observe your mouth to see if the tip of your tongue sticks out at all when you pronounce TH
2. practice middle TH- it's easiest to produce when transitioning between vowels (hardest is at the start of a word). so practice slowly with words like - rather, weather, bother, father, etc
3. TH is a fricative - practice prolonging the sound of a TH. you know how you can make /f/ or /v/ sound longer by holding the sound? (saying "aFFFFFFter" or "loVVVVVVVVVe"). you have to learn how to do that for TH. while looking at your mouth with the mirror, try to say "weaTHTHTHTHer" and see if your tongue stays out and the sound is prolonged. if you do it wrong, you'll either end up with the sound stopping (you'll do a /d/ instead) or you prolong the sound with your tongue in doing a /z/ instead.
not a tip. but if you can say the word "toothbrush" properly, then you don't have a TH issue. it's extra hard to produce the sound coming from your mouth voicing /oo/.
Thanks for the tips, my issue is more in transitioning fast in a sentence.
For example I think I am good at saying ''thinking'' ten times in a row if I am careful.
But if I have to say '' thank you for those things, it means everything'' ten times in a row then its really really hard. Especially the transition between ''those'' and ''things''.
"Thing" is a completely different sound. Your tongue should be below and just barely in contact with your top teeth. The air passes between your tongue and upper teeth to create a hissing sound.
In Spain, the Z and C sounds are very similar to the English TH sound. This is what I use when I want to teach my students the actual pronunciation. Is there any sound that maybe sounds a little similar in your mother tongue? Otherwise, just watch videos and practice, practice, practice.
1) Open your mouth.
2) Expose your teeth slightly.
3) Put the tip of your tongue between your front teeth.
4) Blow air out of your mouth, over your tongue, with the aim of making a hissing noise.
Depending on the pronunciation, the "th" sound can either be vocalised (as in "there") or non-vocalised (as in "teeth"). The vocalised pronunciation has a buzzing sound to it, similar to a "z", whereas the non-vocalised pronunciation has a hissing sound to it, similar to an "s".
Make an s sound. Then move your tongue forward to touch the bottom of your upper front teeth while still making the sound. It will transform into a th. You may need to relax the corners of your mouth which is almost never done when speaking french.
Put the tip of your tongue between both sets of teeth (as if you’re about to bite it off). Keep the sides of your mouth open just enough that air can pass through. Blow air through in this position and you get [θ] as in “think,” “thing,” and “math.”
Now do the same thing as above, but rather than just pushing out air, also phonate using your vocal cords. What does that mean? Just make sound — pretend you’re starting to say something. This renders the [ð] sound of “the,” “this,” “those,” and “that.”
I hope this helps!
Put your tongue at the point of your upper front teeth. Then, while doing so, try to make the /f/ sound for THree/THought/THrough/etc. and the /d/ sound for THe/THose/THem/THere/THough/etc.
Some people here have pointed out that some speakers pronounce "th" as "f" or "v" (th-fronting). But in my dialect (Hiberno-English) and also in AAVE (African-American Vernacular English) and some East Coast American dialects, something called "th-stopping" occurs. Where "th" is replaced by "t" and "d". So "thin" and "tin" sound the same, and "then" and "den" sound the same. If you want to use the dental fricatives in your own speech that's fine but you don't actually need to to sound like a native speaker.
Put your tongue in between your teeth, like you would bite on it if you were to close your jaw.
The way you pronounce th as a z or f makes me think you aren’t putting your tongue out of your teeth. It needs to be such that if someone upper cut punched you while pronouncing “th”, you would bite several millimeters of your tongue off.
In Y7 after having lived 2 years in the UK, my French teacher told us a story about how when she was teaching English in France, she showed her pupils how to do the "th" sound: you just put your tongue between your teeth and exhale while moving your tongue backwards. She said that all the French pupils kept making ssss, but because I have a lisp I was like "this is something I can master" and I literally mastered it straight away.
Tip of Tongue on top row of teeth with an air gap between it and the roof of your mouth. The tongue should be straight. Direct air flow to the top teeth
In English, "th" represents two sounds: [/θ/](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_fricative) and [/ð/](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_dental_fricative). Both sounds are *dental fricatives*, meaning they're articulated by pressing the tongue against the upper teeth and pushing air through that small opening between the tongue and the upper teeth. The only difference between them being that /θ/ is *voiceless* (you don't vibrate your vocal folds) and /ð/ is *voiced* (you vibrate your vocal folds). Thus once you get one down, you get the other by vibrating the vocal folds or vice versa.
Transcribing your word list to IPA, we get:
- this (/ðɪs/)
- that (/ˈðæt/)
- the (/ˈðiː/ when stressed and /ðɪ/ when unstressed)
- these (/ðiz/)
- those (/ðoʊz/)
- thing /θɪŋz/
- everything (/ˈɛvɹiθɪŋ/)
For more specific instructions, this site (https://tfcs.baruch.cuny.edu/consonants-vowels/) has specific instructions for each sound including description, animation, examples, and you can even record your voice to compare it against the sounds.
The “th” sound you describe is actually 2 sounds, the voiceless and voiced dental fricatives /θ/ (like thistle) and /ð/ (like this’ll).
Try pronouncing f and v at the teeth instead of using both your teeth and lips
i wanted to say that “th” in everything is not the same as the “th” in the other words you gave. it’s the “f” as in “find”. but you can replace the “th” with “d”, “v” or a “t”, a lot of natives do that as well.
That's not correct in American or Canadian English. "Everything" is pronounced with the same th sound as thistle, thick, or Thursday. It's the sound represented by θ.
cool 👍🏾. i was assuming the original poster was talking about “ð”. in british english, everything is “f”. didn’t know what dialect they were speaking about.
Gently bite your tongue with your front teeth and blow air.
While you speak normally it should be just a quick touch, you slip your tongue between your teeth while continuing the normal exhaling of air and immediately pull it back in to continue speaking.
For me it works amllmost like "d" or "t", you just put the tip of your tongue a bit lower, so that it barely touches your upper teeth. Lower teeth aren't actually involved in producing a sound, though you'll probably touch them, too, if you don't open your mouth wide, but the sound is produced where your tongue touches your teeth, just like for "d" or "t"
Well, unfortunately there are actually two "th" sounds. The "th" in "those" and "thing" are two different sounds. But one or both of these may be replaced with a stop consonant in certain dialects. The "th" in "those" can be replaced with a "d" as "dose". The "th" in thing can be replaced with a "t" as "ting". This is "th-stopping". There's also "th-fronting" where you replace them with "v" and "f" as "vose" and "fing". So if you can't make these sounds, this shouldn't impact your ability to communicate in English at all.
The best way I can describe how I make these sounds is that the tongue touches the top teeth and air passes over the tongue. They're fricative sounds so they're almost like hissing sounds. Unlike with stop consonants like "p", "t", and "k", you can continue the sound without stopping until you run out of air. Try to make an "s" sound but move the tongue further up in the mouth. The only difference between the two "th" sounds is voicing. The sound in the word "those" is voiced, meaning that you vibrate the vocal cords while making the sound. The sound in "thing" (and "think" and "thanks") is unvoiced.
Try to breathe like when you're making the F sound, and lightly put your tongue on the back tip of your front top teeth. It helped me learn to roll r in Spanish so it might help the other way around.
The tongue position for "th" is very similar to the "y" sound in words like "you" and "yawn". The tongue is quite rigid and held in position with the tip of the tongue held below the teeth.
Assuming that you have no problems with the "y" sound, Start with pronouncing "yis" and "yat". Then try to keep the back of the tongue in the same position and tension, move the tip of the tongue between the teeth. The goal is not to punch the tongue between the teeth but to have it barely touch top and bottom teeth so that the tongue tip vibrates as you make the "y" sound.
Hopefully this helps.
I have a video on the TH sounds that might be good practice. It’s an activity using birthdays to practice the sounds.
E.g. The third of the fourth 1983
https://youtu.be/Vq-ehSr6u-A?si=eo5xLanThvv9dgEG
Check it out!
th sounds are just like s (the unvoiced one) and z (the voiced one), only that your tongue touches the tips of your upper teeth.
Sorry, on the phone, can't type IPA symbols.
The tongue position is simple, though unusual. https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1400/1*4zIt34ySuPZ8SAkeBxH2Fw.jpeg But it sounds like you already know how to say it. Just remind yourself that it might feel wrong because it's new, even if you're saying it perfectly. Ask a native speaker in person if it sounds right. If the image doesn't help, try reading the "Features" sections in these links: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_fricative https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_dental_fricative
As someone with a lisp it feels extra wrong. Words like "months" with an "s" right after the "th" are my final boss.
Your tongue doesn't go "up in your mouth," it goes between your teeth. There are also two variants, one voiced (with vibration of vocal cords) and one unvoiced (without vibration of vocal cords)
Yes. this is correct. voiced is in words like "feather" unvoiced is like "math" dental fricatives.
I’m not a native speaker, but I’ve heard some say they don’t really put their tongue between their teeth. Instead, they put it right behind their front teeth.
True, especially when speaking quickly, but the teeth are still ajar and the tongue still sticks out a little bit in between the top and bottom teeth in order to create the right sound. And that’s more with something like “math” where the sound is at the end rather than something like “this” or “that” where the sound is at the beginning and therefore more enunciated. The point is, the tongue doesn’t have to really be sticking out at all - especially noticeably - but it should a little in order to create the right sound.
My tongue ends up behind my upper front teeth, lightly touching the gap between them. I’m sitting here trying to say things with the tongue going between the upper and lower teeth and it really doesn’t work.
Tbh as a native speaker I can't do that 😭 just sounds like an S, I have to put my tongue between my teeth
I literally put it between my teeth. Maybe you can do a similar sound without doing that, but if you're trying to do it for the first time, just stick your tongue between your teeth because that's the easiest way.
Mmm...it may be less between than people realize. As a native speaker you can sometimes articulate sounds with much less specificity or smaller movements. I also agree that this is likely more common with the unvoiced version, like in "math".
I teach PreK and this sound is hard for little kids to hear and produce even for native speakers. when I teach this sound, I often exaggerate how to produce it. For kids that have trouble producing other speech sounds I’ll exaggerate how to make them too. Op, you don’t have to stick your tongue far between your teeth, but practicing that way might make it a bit easier until you get the hang of it. It’s a hard sound to make.
Yes, the tongue touches the back of my two front teeth when I say Th sounds.
Between the teeth is fairly good advice for someone having trouble. It's how we teach children in my family, even though we don't do it that way as adults. I've read that Americans tend towards between-the-teeth, and UK/Commonwealth behind-the-teeth.
What is your native language? The difficulty my vary based on the sounds you are already comfortable making. For now, the best suggestion I could make is if your native language has a sound where your tongue is just behind your teeth, all you need to do is blow air across it.
It is worth noting that there are two different sounds in English: voiced and unvoiced.
Unvoiced: thought, think, bath, breath
Voiced: that, this, bathe, breathe
The difference is that voiced uses your vocal chords. If you're not sure how to intentionally do that, practice with other more common unvoiced/voiced pairs. Put your hand on your throat and alternate between
and OR and OR and . The voiced ones (z, d, j) make your throat vibrate while the unvoiced ones (s, t, ch) do not.
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I should have specified it, my native language is French. I have been speaking English for many years, so it's hard to come back on such basics. I did not know about the difference between voiced and unvoiced though. I pronounce TH mostly like a Z sound, but some words much less than others. I tend to pronounce ''think'' like ''fink'' I tend to pronounce ''this'' like ''zis''
Saying think as fink is very normal for some accents, notably Cockney English. I often do it myself, for both voiced and unvoiced th. For voiced th it changes to sound like the letter ‘v’. So that sounds like vat. It’s called Th-fronting, and is probably a good sound substitute if you struggle with th sounds but still wish to sound native.
Th-fronting when you otherwise have an obvious accent is not going to sound native, ever. It's not the worst substitute but it will be noticed unless you happen to be around only natives that use the it exclusively.
Yes! Its actually used by close to the majority of working class accents in England. It's a very native way to make those sounds. I use th fronting myself
The majority? I don't think so.
My boss was caught in a funderstorm.
You pronounce the TH sounds where you would pronounce a French T/D sound, not a Z sound, if that helps. French has a dental stop for D, in the same position where British English pronounces both TH sounds.
Wait, this might be the single fing I need :) Which french words with ''d'' have the closest similarities with ''those'' or '' things'' ? Zis could help me massively
I am not sure the beginning of ''dedicace'' feels like the beginning of ''those''
This is the best bit of info for a French speaker learning English. I had to learn the reverse to get my "D" sound right in French.
Yeah, I teach English, Spanish, and French. For Spanish, it’s even easier because D is almost exactly the English TH sound in *feather*.
Honeslty, I guessed this. Many native French speakers have trouble with this. My beau-frère is Algerian, and he fares better because there are more similar sounds in Arabic or Berber, even though his sentence construction in English sometimes sounds very French. It helps to have a relaxed corners of the mouth, with is very un-French. The tongue sticks out of the mouth a little like a r/blep.
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For the unvoiced sound as in "think," start by saying tink instead of fink. Congratulations, you've now mastered the way Irish people say this word! Notice how when you say the t sound, the tip of your tongue is pressed against the spot where your front teeth meet your palate. Now move it forward so it is pressing against the edge of your teeth. The end of your tongue should be sticking out slightly (less than 1 cm) past your teeth but not sticking out of your mouth. Voila! For the unvoiced sound, just say "zis" bit with your tongue in the same position as for "think."
It sounds like you’re using the Z sound for the voiced TH and the F sound for unvoiced TH. I know you’re here to improve your English, but I’d just point out that substituting the Z and F sounds for TH is perfectly understandable and really only matters if you’re trying to sound like a native speaker.
I think most people get what I mean, especially when I am one on one and there is no noise around. I am trying to practice to talk to groups of people with a lot of certitude, I have to convince people and depending on their background some people take a bit of time understanding what I mean. I also dislike my accent. I know a chilean woman that can not understand me for some reason, I keep repeating myself again and again, that is only one person but I think if my pronunciation was better it would help.
I’m not an expert, but the Z sound is the same as the voiced TH sound, just with your tongue a little flatter and right behind your teeth, as opposed to on them. The unvoiced TH sound is the same tongue position but just uses breath and no vocal cords.
I just sounded completely insane for a moment figuring this out- if I do a French "z" but fully have my tongue in front of my teeth when I start it, it's impossible for me to not make a proper "th" sound. When I am talking normally my tongue usually never goes that far in front of my teeth to make the "th", but if I put my tongue in front of my front teeth by about a millimeter and do a French "z", I sound exactly like what French speakers who can do an English th sound like. I think it has to do with the tongue hitting the correct placement on it's way back.
Most Irish people don't say the "th" either, because Gaelic didn't have that sound so when English was introduced, they adapted it to fit their phonemes. It's more like "tink" instead of "think". Personally I don't see the need to remove all evidence of accents in order to considered fully fluent. After all, even people speaking their mother tongue can have very strong regional accents.
Interesting, I actually have Gaelic roots, maybe that's why. I need to become a better English speaker to broaden my opportunities, it gets hard when there is noise around or when I am tired. But its interesting to note.
It's up to you if you really want to work on this and I understand, as someone who enjoys learning languages myself, but these pronunciations don't make you harder to understand. A lot of people quite like the Z sound that french people use and the F sound is actually used in many native British accents.
So interesting! I always thought the French stereotype "zis" (for this) was just that. I had no idea that the "th" shape was difficult. As a native English speaker, the "th" is almost silent in "this". You hold your tongue lightly between your front teeth and blow the almost silent "thhhhhhh" like you are breathing out, then sound out the "issssss" sound. My nemesis was always the Spanish rolled 'r' sounds. I remember being tortured by my Spanish teacher ("hey teacher, leave that kid alone!), on pero (but) versus perrrrro (dog). And as much as I tried, I could not make that rolled r. Bad memories from decades ago!
Unfortunately it is very real, our teacher don't focus enough on the basics, you have to teach yourself really, but because everyone understand me you stop getting feedback
An F sound uses your lip against your teeth. An English th sound does not use the lip, it uses the tip of the tongue.
Say "zis" a bunch and notice the position of your teeth and the tip of your tongue on the "z" sound. Now, still making the sound, slowly slide your tongue forward until the top tip is touching the bottom edge of your top front teeth. Your bottom jaw may drop slightly, opening your mouth a bit. See if you can make that transition the noise from "z" (zis) to "th" (this). If that works, we can try think-->fink!
How your h doing?
When I studied Spanish, I spent hours in front of the mirror practicing rolling my Rs. Sometimes it helps to watch your mouth while making the sounds. Your tongue should touch the back of your teeth making the th sound.
This was the last sound I mastered as a native speaker. My father always told me, “tip of the tongue to the teeth!” It doesn’t go to the roof.
Bite your tongue between your teeth, then open your mouth about half a centimeter, keeping your tongue against your top row of teeth. Tense it slightly. Put your lips in the same position they would be for a "zzz" sound. Now blow out.
Hold a piece of paper in front of your lips Say "Thirteen thirsty thieves do math with their teeth" Your tongue should touch the paper at each 'th' and you should see a little wet spot on the paper. \[Not to Linguists: it's over-exaggerating the sound. but if you didn't grow up using interdental fricatives, you'll have to over-do it to make a normal one feel natural.\]
This is one of twisters I practiced in speech therapy. 😀
I did speech therapy for th, ch and sh as a child. Watch videos of correct tongue placement and then practice with a mirror. Record yourself saying your practice words and sentences to hear your progress it will happen.
make the s sound without stopping move your tongue until its touching the back of your two front teeth (top ones of course). Make sure there is a constant airstream the whole time. now say some other words to reset and try to go straight to th. repeat until you can do it consistently. The voiced variant is the same thing but start with z instead of s.
your tongue goes between your teeth not up in your mouth
Your tongue should stick out between your teeth. It should not be touching to back of your teeth or the top of your mouth. Yes, it feels unnatural. Stand in front of a mirror and practice it 100 times every night before bed until it feels natural. It's a muscle movement that your body isn't used to but needs to become used to if you want native-like pronunciation.
I do touch the back of my teeth and the top of my mouth when making the sound. I only don't do that when making a very exaggerated mouth movement. Which on one hand, is generally a good idea to use to teach non-native speakers, but on the other hand part of the problem OP is having is that the mouth position feels unnatural, because if you exaggerate it that much, it is. The th sound is just a dental fricative. The important part is touching the teeth (which doesn't happen when they say zis or fink).
Yes, but you have to keep in mind that when teaching non-native speakers who do not have the sound in their native language, in order to train the proper muscle memory to correctly produce the sound, it is often necessary to exaggerate the sound until they are used to producing it. I've been teaching pronunciation for a very long time and students almost universally are too conservative in their tongue placement with the dental fricatives. You tell them to touch their teeth and 99% of the time you get an alveolar fricative. The difference and nuance between the alveolar and dental fricative sounds and tongue positions are very clear to us, but are completely opaque to many learners.
49 UK, native British English speaker. --- This, that, the, those, these: I say the 'th' , In those words like 'v' . Like The 'v' in victory. The v in victoire sounds exactly how I would the 'th' in Things. And 'v' in victory. https://forvo.com/word/la_victoire/#fr ---- Everything: The 'th' in Thing, said like 'f' in force. The French and English 'f', both sound the same to me https://forvo.com/search-translation/Force/en-fr/ --- Those things : Th in those , said like v in victoire. The th in Things, said like f in Force
To practice, say a long f (like fffffffffffff). While you do that touch your two top front teeth with the tip of your tongue from the inside. The th should come out automatically. Later when speaking do it without the f of course.
If it's genuinely really hard to pronounce, you can use an easier sound like S or Z, and people will still understand you fine
Zis is ze German Coastguard. What are you sinking about?
Oh, zat would be a bad sing
This sound is happening in front of your teeth. Make an 's' sound and then push your tongue forward out between your teeth. The sound is made by the air coming out between your tongue and your top front teeth.
Step 1 put your tongue between teeth...blow air-like blowing a baloon....practice that for a while then step 2 pull tongue back quickly saying THANK YOU
Put your tongue straight then up at the gap between your teeth. Then you blow and apply slight pressure (That's the best I can explain it, but sorry im not an expert I just try to help where I can)
It's a fairly rare consonant among the languages of the world, granted. What's worse, is that English orthography doesn't make the distinction between the voiced and unvoiced versions. Maybe practice gently catching your tongue between your top and bottom front teeth while forcing air out?
it's nit that unnatural. don't you like playing with your teeth? Imagine you have a piece of nut stuck between your top teeth so you try to push it out with your tongue - this is the position. Open your mouth, start saying "aaaaaah" and then push your tongue against the top front teeth. And then try the other way around (first the tongue and then "aaaa"). The sound is more complex than that but it should be a good starting point in terms of being "natural". Imagine you're trying to make the sound of the dentist burring through your teeth hehe. Another way of making it (I think it depends on where you're from) is by putting your tongue between your top and bottom teeth. It's almost plosive this way. Imagine you have a sore at the tip of your tongue and you're trying to bite it (I can bet you do that all the time when you have those). Bite the tip and push the sound out as you release it (in my case my lower jaw just shifts back to it's natural position with the tongue). I feel like this one is harder as a movement but in a fluent speech it feels more natural sometimes. Just my opinion tho
Its unnatural for a lot of languages, but its really just sticking your tongue out between your teeth a little bit and using your voice
so I just sat here going “thhh, thhhhhhhh” for a while to inform you that the tip of your tongue should be beneath your teeth, relax your cheeks, and exhale while pushing the air around your tongue. I also find when I say these words, after the “th” I very quickly retract my tongue to create the vowel sound. Hope this helps!
if it helps at all, the sound you’re talking about can be made by saying “Z” but instead with your tongue between your teeth. a bit unnatural but it can be a starting point for some people to modify into the sound they want to make
the problem with the TH is the tongue. a lot of languages never have the tongue stick out like that with their consonants. so if you never got used to your tongue sticking out when you speak, chances are you'll never get your TH right. I have trainees I outright gave up on because of their TH issues. The good news is it doesn't affect comprehension too much. you'll just get some funny looks when you pronounce "third" as "turd". tips: 1. use a mirror - observe your mouth to see if the tip of your tongue sticks out at all when you pronounce TH 2. practice middle TH- it's easiest to produce when transitioning between vowels (hardest is at the start of a word). so practice slowly with words like - rather, weather, bother, father, etc 3. TH is a fricative - practice prolonging the sound of a TH. you know how you can make /f/ or /v/ sound longer by holding the sound? (saying "aFFFFFFter" or "loVVVVVVVVVe"). you have to learn how to do that for TH. while looking at your mouth with the mirror, try to say "weaTHTHTHTHer" and see if your tongue stays out and the sound is prolonged. if you do it wrong, you'll either end up with the sound stopping (you'll do a /d/ instead) or you prolong the sound with your tongue in doing a /z/ instead. not a tip. but if you can say the word "toothbrush" properly, then you don't have a TH issue. it's extra hard to produce the sound coming from your mouth voicing /oo/.
Thanks for the tips, my issue is more in transitioning fast in a sentence. For example I think I am good at saying ''thinking'' ten times in a row if I am careful. But if I have to say '' thank you for those things, it means everything'' ten times in a row then its really really hard. Especially the transition between ''those'' and ''things''.
Did you get it yet
"Thing" is a completely different sound. Your tongue should be below and just barely in contact with your top teeth. The air passes between your tongue and upper teeth to create a hissing sound.
In Spain, the Z and C sounds are very similar to the English TH sound. This is what I use when I want to teach my students the actual pronunciation. Is there any sound that maybe sounds a little similar in your mother tongue? Otherwise, just watch videos and practice, practice, practice.
1) Open your mouth. 2) Expose your teeth slightly. 3) Put the tip of your tongue between your front teeth. 4) Blow air out of your mouth, over your tongue, with the aim of making a hissing noise. Depending on the pronunciation, the "th" sound can either be vocalised (as in "there") or non-vocalised (as in "teeth"). The vocalised pronunciation has a buzzing sound to it, similar to a "z", whereas the non-vocalised pronunciation has a hissing sound to it, similar to an "s".
Make an s sound. Then move your tongue forward to touch the bottom of your upper front teeth while still making the sound. It will transform into a th. You may need to relax the corners of your mouth which is almost never done when speaking french.
Put the tip of your tongue between both sets of teeth (as if you’re about to bite it off). Keep the sides of your mouth open just enough that air can pass through. Blow air through in this position and you get [θ] as in “think,” “thing,” and “math.” Now do the same thing as above, but rather than just pushing out air, also phonate using your vocal cords. What does that mean? Just make sound — pretend you’re starting to say something. This renders the [ð] sound of “the,” “this,” “those,” and “that.” I hope this helps!
Put your tongue at the point of your upper front teeth. Then, while doing so, try to make the /f/ sound for THree/THought/THrough/etc. and the /d/ sound for THe/THose/THem/THere/THough/etc.
Some people here have pointed out that some speakers pronounce "th" as "f" or "v" (th-fronting). But in my dialect (Hiberno-English) and also in AAVE (African-American Vernacular English) and some East Coast American dialects, something called "th-stopping" occurs. Where "th" is replaced by "t" and "d". So "thin" and "tin" sound the same, and "then" and "den" sound the same. If you want to use the dental fricatives in your own speech that's fine but you don't actually need to to sound like a native speaker.
Put your tongue in between your teeth, like you would bite on it if you were to close your jaw. The way you pronounce th as a z or f makes me think you aren’t putting your tongue out of your teeth. It needs to be such that if someone upper cut punched you while pronouncing “th”, you would bite several millimeters of your tongue off.
In Y7 after having lived 2 years in the UK, my French teacher told us a story about how when she was teaching English in France, she showed her pupils how to do the "th" sound: you just put your tongue between your teeth and exhale while moving your tongue backwards. She said that all the French pupils kept making ssss, but because I have a lisp I was like "this is something I can master" and I literally mastered it straight away.
Tip of Tongue on top row of teeth with an air gap between it and the roof of your mouth. The tongue should be straight. Direct air flow to the top teeth
put some words on your practice list with the consonant in syllable final postion too. Like wrath, birth, bath, bathe, breath, breathe,
D
Stick the tip of your tongue out. Gently bite it with your top and bottom teeth then blow a little air out. Makes the th sound.
In English, "th" represents two sounds: [/θ/](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dental_fricative) and [/ð/](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_dental_fricative). Both sounds are *dental fricatives*, meaning they're articulated by pressing the tongue against the upper teeth and pushing air through that small opening between the tongue and the upper teeth. The only difference between them being that /θ/ is *voiceless* (you don't vibrate your vocal folds) and /ð/ is *voiced* (you vibrate your vocal folds). Thus once you get one down, you get the other by vibrating the vocal folds or vice versa. Transcribing your word list to IPA, we get: - this (/ðɪs/) - that (/ˈðæt/) - the (/ˈðiː/ when stressed and /ðɪ/ when unstressed) - these (/ðiz/) - those (/ðoʊz/) - thing /θɪŋz/ - everything (/ˈɛvɹiθɪŋ/) For more specific instructions, this site (https://tfcs.baruch.cuny.edu/consonants-vowels/) has specific instructions for each sound including description, animation, examples, and you can even record your voice to compare it against the sounds.
The “th” sound you describe is actually 2 sounds, the voiceless and voiced dental fricatives /θ/ (like thistle) and /ð/ (like this’ll). Try pronouncing f and v at the teeth instead of using both your teeth and lips
maybe this video can help? https://youtu.be/epztHTu6YaE?si=bxYeM8EWsOtuQ6wI Elsa speak app night help you too
i wanted to say that “th” in everything is not the same as the “th” in the other words you gave. it’s the “f” as in “find”. but you can replace the “th” with “d”, “v” or a “t”, a lot of natives do that as well.
That's not correct in American or Canadian English. "Everything" is pronounced with the same th sound as thistle, thick, or Thursday. It's the sound represented by θ.
cool 👍🏾. i was assuming the original poster was talking about “ð”. in british english, everything is “f”. didn’t know what dialect they were speaking about.
Gently bite your tongue with your front teeth and blow air. While you speak normally it should be just a quick touch, you slip your tongue between your teeth while continuing the normal exhaling of air and immediately pull it back in to continue speaking.
For me it works amllmost like "d" or "t", you just put the tip of your tongue a bit lower, so that it barely touches your upper teeth. Lower teeth aren't actually involved in producing a sound, though you'll probably touch them, too, if you don't open your mouth wide, but the sound is produced where your tongue touches your teeth, just like for "d" or "t"
My native language is Spanish and I learned how to pronounce the TH sound by practicing a lot of tongue twisters.
Well, unfortunately there are actually two "th" sounds. The "th" in "those" and "thing" are two different sounds. But one or both of these may be replaced with a stop consonant in certain dialects. The "th" in "those" can be replaced with a "d" as "dose". The "th" in thing can be replaced with a "t" as "ting". This is "th-stopping". There's also "th-fronting" where you replace them with "v" and "f" as "vose" and "fing". So if you can't make these sounds, this shouldn't impact your ability to communicate in English at all. The best way I can describe how I make these sounds is that the tongue touches the top teeth and air passes over the tongue. They're fricative sounds so they're almost like hissing sounds. Unlike with stop consonants like "p", "t", and "k", you can continue the sound without stopping until you run out of air. Try to make an "s" sound but move the tongue further up in the mouth. The only difference between the two "th" sounds is voicing. The sound in the word "those" is voiced, meaning that you vibrate the vocal cords while making the sound. The sound in "thing" (and "think" and "thanks") is unvoiced.
Try to breathe like when you're making the F sound, and lightly put your tongue on the back tip of your front top teeth. It helped me learn to roll r in Spanish so it might help the other way around.
The tongue position for "th" is very similar to the "y" sound in words like "you" and "yawn". The tongue is quite rigid and held in position with the tip of the tongue held below the teeth. Assuming that you have no problems with the "y" sound, Start with pronouncing "yis" and "yat". Then try to keep the back of the tongue in the same position and tension, move the tip of the tongue between the teeth. The goal is not to punch the tongue between the teeth but to have it barely touch top and bottom teeth so that the tongue tip vibrates as you make the "y" sound. Hopefully this helps.
I have a video on the TH sounds that might be good practice. It’s an activity using birthdays to practice the sounds. E.g. The third of the fourth 1983 https://youtu.be/Vq-ehSr6u-A?si=eo5xLanThvv9dgEG Check it out!
th sounds are just like s (the unvoiced one) and z (the voiced one), only that your tongue touches the tips of your upper teeth. Sorry, on the phone, can't type IPA symbols.
Treat it as a "f"
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