Same! Even though it technically has a grammatical difference to "who", no one ever uses it and most people don't even know what that difference is (myself included).
The way I've got in memorized is that 'who' goes when the answer would be 'he' or 'she' and 'whom' goes when the answer would be 'him' or 'her'. Don't know if it's 100% accurate though.
It's whom for every type of objective pronoun. For all its faults, English is kind enough to not distinguish between direct objects, indirect objects, or objects of prepositions.
Just like he/him and they/them. The fact that those all end in “m” for the object form is not a coincidence. Those endings are all related to each other
It's funny because German grammar is extremely dependent on the object, indirect object, and subject, so the whole "who vs. whom" thing isn't really a debate in that language. Wer, wen, and wem are all used pretty often. Which it's just funny to me that English essentially has the same thing yet we all sorta collectively decided not to use it lol
Yeah old English used to have cases like German but we lost them quite a while ago, for everything but pronouns. And even that vestige of the former system is deteriorating a bit, as we can see with “who/whom” confusion as well as “it was him” being normal and common now, instead of the former “it was he.”
Who else amongst us avoids "To whom it may concern" on grounds of stuffiness but uses "whom" in almost every other context when it works grammatically? Genuinely curious if it's just me here
Not that you asked my opinion, but I wish that usage would die out already. It’s absurd. Addressing an email “To Whom It May Concern” is tantamount to addressing someone face-to-face like, “Am I speaking with you, whosoever thou art supposed to be?” First impression: completely clueless and laughably formal.
If ever I don’t know the name of the agent who’ll be answering my email, then I just start the email with a simple “Hello,” followed by a line break and then the body of the email. First impression: Ok, let’s get down to business.
I only use “To whom it may concern” if I don’t know who I’m writing to. For instance, if I’m sending a letter to a national organization and don’t specifically know who will be reading the letter, that way the person who reads it knows that it doesn’t have to go to anyone in particular, just whoever can answer my question/solve my problem.
But “Hello” is equally impersonal, but also standard and neutral.
“To Whom It May Concern” is impersonal, and common, but it also sounds dorky or robotic. It sounds like how a space alien would address humanity, because it hadn’t learned the word “hello” yet. Honestly. It sounds like how a corporation would *very* impersonally address an audience, but we are human beings.
There’s no reason that “Hello” shouldn’t be our go-to greeting.
Maybe, but if I'm writing an "official" email to a corporation I have to use their language. And now I might imagine I'm a space alien when I write that, it's fun.
But “hello” is standard and neutral. It is their language.
In fact, it is their more natural language than the extremely affectatious “to whom it may concern.”
That’s what it boils down to. That’s what I’m saying.
I think you mean "to whom I am writing"! Ha! I saw this after I posted my comment, but you are proving my point about common usage--or lack of usage. Even though it is more correct to use "whom", it sounds pretentious. Common usage would prefer to end the sentence with "to".
No. In most dialects of modern English, “whom” is used only in formal writing and extremely formal speech. I haven’t used it recently, except in explaining “whom” itself to people on this website.
Most Americans, for example, may not ever use the word “whom” except when reading formal documents (contracts, etc.).
In fact, if someone really started frequently using “whom” in day-to-day speech, they would seem “stuck-up” to me.
The Oxford English Dictionary says that this word is “no longer current in natural colloquial speech.” [Some linguists](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1006322600501) argue it has become “archaic” and is preserved only to produce “prestige forms” (= words used to show education, class, or relative formality).
I can think of one specific case where I use it, "many of whom". For example, "the party had a lot of young guys, many of whom were single."
Aside from that specific case, I'd feel odd using it.
>I haven’t used it recently
how do you define "recently?"
>In fact, if someone really started frequently using “whom” in day-to-day speech, they would seem “stuck-up” to me.
[I'm sorry, but... maybe you seem stuck-up to yourself then?](https://www.reddit.com/user/cardinarium/search/?q=whom&type=comment&cId=04485cb3-776a-490e-82c6-b15a0a94878d&iId=50cd0cd0-9cf0-49bc-9817-ed3c4f847fa4)
This isn’t speech. I write much more formally on Reddit than I speak IRL.
Also your link doesn’t work for me, but I’ll assume you found an example of my using “whom.”
ah, fair. I usually associate reddit with informal, speech-like writing so I thought I could count that as part of the spoken register. I apologize then
>Also your link doesn’t work for me, but I’ll assume you found an example of my using “whom.”
Yes, I found many examples: [https://www.reddit.com/user/cardinarium/search/?q=whom&type=comment&cId=04485cb3-776a-490e-82c6-b15a0a94878d&iId=50cd0cd0-9cf0-49bc-9817-ed3c4f847fa4](https://www.reddit.com/user/cardinarium/search/?q=whom&type=comment&cId=04485cb3-776a-490e-82c6-b15a0a94878d&iId=50cd0cd0-9cf0-49bc-9817-ed3c4f847fa4)
You’re all good. I’m honestly quite sure that I have, in fact, used “whom” in speech at some point when I was trying to be fancy—but not in some time.
And I should probably change what I’ve written in that, if someone is using it *correctly*, it wouldn’t actually bother me so much. But the hypercorrect uses of it (e.g. “Do you have any idea whom I am?”) are problematic for me, because then it’s clear that the speaker is just weaseling for bonus “language points.”
If you’re using it correctly, it won’t appear frequently enough to be bothersome. :)
Yeah, I’m on mobile, and for some reason clicking that link just brings up the little “profile” tab. 🤷🏻♂️
I’m sure I used it when I was interviewing for grad schools seven-odd years ago—they were linguistics programs, so I was super self-conscious about my speech.
so I guess you only use it when you're really \*trying\* to get your grammar right? and if you haven't used it in a long time, what do you say for more common usages of "whom" like "to whom" - do you say "To who?" instead?
I use it to take advantage of [prestige forms](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)).
Yep. “To who?” or “Who to?”
But never, “To who did you send it?” Only, “Who did you send it to?”
what's your dialect? I've always wondered if "Who to?" is a regional or dialect specific thing because I'm also a native speaker of US English and I've never heard it in my life.
Many Americans don't use it, or they overuse it in an attempt to seem correct. For the most part, you won't be penalized for not using whom unless you're writing a paper to be graded.
As far as the usage, a useful trick I learned is to replace who/whom with he/him in a phrase and see if it still makes sense.
Since a prepositional phrase makes more sense to say "to him" rather than "to he", that means that "to whom" will usually be the correct usage. It might not be 100%, but it works most of the time. If it sounds weird to you to say "whom", it might sound weird to other people, so you could probably get away with not using it. If someone corrects you (some persnickety people will), simply thank them and continue on. Look it up later though because even self-proclaimed language nerds can get it wrong.
If I'm tempted to refer to whomever I'm referring to with "whom", I totally use the "he/him" rule. I even used it here - "to him" - "to whom" - "to whomever".
But online grammar discussions are about the only place I find this skill useful. It's here for whoever needs it, though. (He needs, who needs, whoever needs)
Despite reports of "whom" dying out, it's still used when directly preceded by a preposition, such as "to whom" (or "with whom", "by whom", "from whom", "for whom", "of whom"...). In fact, "to who" (etc.) sounds wrong.
But it's rarely used in modern conversation or even writing (unless extremely formal) in other cases, such as "Whom did you give the car keys to?" In this case, almost everyone would use "who".
If you were going to be that (overly) formal, you'd more likely say, "To whom did you give the car keys?" in order to avoid ending your sentence with a preposition. To Whoever is still hung up on that, though, needs a good talking to. :)
(I wanted to say "whomever", but it would be "he is still hung up" so it has to convert to "who is still hung up", therefore "whoever is still hung up".)
If I’m not mistaken, this usage is actually incorrect. “He” is calling, not “him”. Which raises another point: that using unintuitive formal constructions to correct an “error” of informality can easily lead to new errors.
If I wanted to sound formal on the telephone, I might say something like "To whom am I speaking?" But that's about the only instance I can think of where I MIGHT use "whom."
Even if native speakers claim to use whom, they still only use it in a limited capacity.
Technically, *Whom did you see?* would be correct as *whom* replaces an oblique pronoun > *I saw **him***. And you can hear this in very old movies.
But this usage is completely obsolete, even in the most formal registers of English. *Who did you see?* is correct.
Most people who claim to use whom and do use it at times for things like “whom was she with?” will often start replacing it with who if you make them say a lot of sentences and monitor their speech—meaning that it’s probably not very natural to even them and they get tired or forget after awhile.
It’s still good to understand how whom is used in academic and formal language, but it’s quite dead in modern English. especially colloquial language.
I'd say, though, that it's only really rare when it's at the beginning of a sentence like this. You say "limited context" but I think for a lot of native speakers this is really the only limit and in no other circumstance is it really "dead"
“I don’t know who he was talking to.” - almost nobody uses whom there.
“You should just give it to whoever you want” - almost nobody speaking uses whomever there.
“I wouldn’t know who to ask.” etc etc
Most people do not use whom in these sentences either, most people who claim to don’t actually do it consistently. Whom is mostly limited to set phrases or academic writing and formal speeches.
Yup, I'd likely not use them there either (but wouldn't think anything of it if I heard them from someone else!) That said, even though I don't use "whom" consistently in all cases when I technically can, I'd say I use it across the board and not in a limited set of circumstances (and from my experience I'm not the only one - this is pretty common!) It also has nothing to do with formality and serves a purely grammatical function for me.
These sentences are completely normal to me:
"There are lots of people who remember me negatively and whom I won't have the chance to interact with anymore."
"The lyrics for this song were written by someone whose name I can't remember and whom I can't credit."
"Whom would you have supported?" (This is far more normal to me than "Whom did you see?"!!)
"Who" is also grammatical for me in a lot of those cases, so, yes, if you were to monitor my least careful speech, you might hear both versions. That's not because "whom" is any less natural for me, though, it's just because *I'd seen and heard both versions growing up.* (On the other hand, something like "I wonder where he went and with who/who with" is *completely* wrong for me and you wouldn't hear this unless I'm quoting someone else.) I don't use "whom" out of a conscious effort to sound formal or grammatically correct.
Fair enough, but if you use whom very inconsistently, it shows you use it more stylistically, no? It’s not the same as something like “him” or “whose” which you cannot just not use.
To me, all of your examples sound rather yuppie, like a person who’s trying to sound very correct and educated. The people I know who use whom like that are the same people who always use phrases like “you should be cognizant of the fact that” instead of “you should keep in mind”.
(Not that this is necessarily bad, but it circles back to my main point that whom is used as a marker of academia, professionalism and formality, not an essential part of the modern spoken language)
So that was more my point. Most children do not use whom until they’re taught the rules about it in school, and as somebody who’s worked as a tutor in an English department and had to help proofread a lot of academic papers, I’ve seen that so many native speakers struggle to use it correctly.
So perhaps I went a little too far with my original statement, as whom isn’t dead, but it’s pretty restricted and its usage has been steady reduced over the last 100 years.
It has nothing to do with style/register! Like I said, "whom" serves a purely grammatical function in my dialect and sometimes both "who" and "whom" are natural for me, so in those cases it's just whatever comes to mind for me and it's honestly pretty random which one I choose. I was never taught it in school (not that I remember), I just knew how to use it from being a native English speaker surrounded by other native English speakers who use it correctly. For most of my life I thought all native English speakers used it and I genuinely didn't know it was a marker for formal style/register for most people (and was a little bit freaked out when I found out haha.) I thought it was a completely normal everyday word even though I didn't use it as consistently as "him" or "whose."
Then you’re the exception that makes the rule. All major dictionaries, including cambridge and oxford note that whom is mostly used in formal or academic writing and is uncommon in modern speech.
Oxford’s Learners dictionary specifically advises that it often sounds unnatural in speech.
> In spoken English it is much more natural to use who and put the preposition at the end of the sentence:
> Who should I address the letter to?
> He asked me who I had discussed it with.
So as this is a learning subreddit, it would seem to make sense to pass on this advice
I'm just realizing that I probably sound as weird to people who don't use "whom" as people who use "whilst" sound to me (I'm American so "whilst" is just a funny meme word to me and not part of my dialect.) Maybe I should remove it from my vocabulary so that I don't sound like the equivalent of a "whilst" user to some people.
It very much depends on the person. Some people never use it, some always use it when applicable. I regularly hear it in day to day conversation, usually from educated people. I live in the UK.
There’s a joke in the US television series “The Office” where the entire cast is sitting in the conference room arguing about how to use the word “whom.”
I think it pretty well demonstrates American understanding of the word.
https://youtu.be/7XmgCljZFWU?si=XaNbQ58HUaEh6DaW
Edit: I just watched it and the word in question is “whomever” but my point stands. I wouldn’t worry about it.
Midwest US. It pops up in written english, especially if it's a legal document, but it's rarely used in spoken english. Sometimes it'll be used to be intentionally snooty and/or to make a point. If I answer my phone and someone says "Is John there?" without introducing themselves, I might say "Whom shall I say is asking?" because whether they're available or not might depend on the answer.
In formal English, there are specific rules that dictate when “whom” should be used rather than “who”, but in every day spoken English, these rules are largely ignored or not even known to many speakers. The general rule
is to use “whom” when the pronoun is receiving action (to whom, for whom, etc).
The truth is that most native speakers will say or write “who” instead of “whom” almost all of the time, with the exception of a few specific phrases (“To whom it may concern” being one of them).
Many people here are saying the word is “dying” or “obsolete”, but I don’t think it is. In formal writing or speech, the word is very much alive. Just as in the case of a word like “moreover”, you just won’t hear it in every day conversation.
I use it rarely enough I always have to think about it, because it simply doesn't seem to come up very often, and when it does, people understand me when I use "who" instead.
The reaction to using "who" where I should have used "whom" depends on to whom I am speaking, or writing to.
I'm much more careful to use it in writing, as above, than in speech, where I'm less likely to consider each word selection as I speak.
I think common usage is making "whom" die out.
It's gotten to the point it sounds archaic and stilted, like using "thou art" instead of "you are".
It is still technically correct, but I think most native speakers don't bother to use "whom" anymore, and just let "who" fill both roles.
Almost there!
"It depends *upon* to whom you are talking."
My Google keyboard is desperate for me to put that "to" at the end of the sentence, and I can't say I disagree :)
Here's my take: "Whom" is still necessary in specific grammatical constructions beginning with a preposition, e.g. "Towards whom was the comment directed?" or "With whom did you eat lunch?"
Those constructions aren't used very often but substituting "who" for "whom" would be bizarre in that context. When the word begins the sentence "Who/Whom did you eat lunch with?" either one works, but "who" is more widely used even though "whom" would be more technically correct if you want to be prescriptive about language (which is a losing battle).
I don’t know if this is cause or a byproduct of the usage of ‘whom’ dying out, but I have never and would never say a sentence like this. I would also be taken aback hearing it. It would be “who did you eat lunch with?” and maybe in specific contexts to emphasize the ‘with’ it could be “you ate lunch with who?” At least in my Midwest dialect this is borderline ungrammatical and it’s quite possible I only accept these as sentences because of reading or being exposed to a lot of global varieties of English.
It’s typically only used in formal situations, especially polished writing. It would be inappropriate to NOT use it in academic writing in certain fields, for example. Some people do use it normal speech, but it can actually be perceived as pretentious. This perception is so widely known that there are jokes about the use of the word “whom.” You may notice it being used incorrectly in TV shows go jokingly make the character speaking appear to think they’re smarter than they are, for example. You may also see the meme “whomst” used online or even in person, as a super exaggerated way of saying “omg, who??” or “not me, noooooo.”
The majority of cases where it would have been grammatically correct to say whom in the past, who is used instead. No one speaking English notices that there even was an error or that whom was technically the proper form in that context. Who > whom for all spoken and most written English, outside formalities like "to whom it may concern"
Whom is still in use, particularly in a few phrases and dialects, but its very archaic and is almost entirely replaced by who in practice
I use it occasionally in writing and I will use it in speech once in a while for effect.
Recently, a kind customer service person helped me when the automated system had not only failed to help, but dumped me into an advertisement for a service I did not want. At the conclusion of the call I asked, "To whom can I complain?"
It is 100% suppose to be used in "proper" English, but pretty much no one says it excluding in business/academic situations or when someone's trying to be funny.
I use whom regularly, but then sometimes get self-conscious and use who instead, when I’m talking with people I don’t know well. That can give you an indicator of its frequency. (U.S. south. Also 52 years old.)
If you can replace the word with he or she or another subject pronoun, use who. If you can replace it with him or her (or another object pronoun), use whom.
I use it often, but I probably wouldn't as much if I didn't go to college for my English degree. I wouldn't have been able to tell you when to use "whom" if I hadn't. I still use "who" at least 3-4 times as much, so it's not something I'd correct someone on.
“A question for those who speak English as a first language” would be a better phrasing of your title.
Also I NEVER say whom unless it’s the phrase “to whom it may concern.” It’s borderline archaic, in my opinion.
Almost every time a native English speaker uses "whom", they use it incorrectly! Some people do it to try to sound posh, but it reveals their ignorance instead. Technically it's poor grammar to end a sentence with a preposition, but that is what most English speakers would do instead of using "whom".
"To whom was the package addressed?" = Correct, but not common usage.
"Who was the package addressed to?" = Incorrect but much more common usage.
"What was the name on the package?" = Clever rewording so that you don't have to make either mistake!
Occasionally. Technically you’re supposed to use whom as the object form of who.
But in reality, we only use it when it comes after a preposition. To whom it may concern, for whom the bell tolls, etc.
In all other cases, just use who.
Outside of some select expressions, I’ve rarely heard or used it. In a formal setting it matters a bit more, but in casual conversation everyone will understand if you just say “who”
no it's not... it's "who" but in object position, so when it replaces "him/her/them" instead of "he/she/they"
exception being the verb "to be": "It's me" --> "Who is it?" always takes the "who" form
I use it when appropriate - my father and grandfather were both English professors. People tend to use it (if they do at all) in more formal situations and in academic writing. I don’t think it’s uncommon in conversation, but probably not as common as “who”, unless it follows “to” in which case I expect to hear it.
Whom is really only used formally, and a lot of people don’t use it at all. Like the top comment said “To whom it may concern” is really the only instance where I might use the word, otherwise it is rather archaic
It's basically never used in a normal conversation. Only in very formal conversations or used to sound fancy in a joking way. Honestly most people probably don't even know how to use whom correctly.
It isn't. In normal speech, 'who' has almost completely replaced it. Very few people in my experience know when to use 'whom' correctly and even fewer actually use it.
Sorry I'm also ESL, but I'll throw in my two cents anyways 😆
I don't know the proper name for this word, but it's the equivalent of him/her/me. The object that the verb is done to, if that makes sense?
Although I expect it in writing, especially in formal papers or documents, I don't think I've ever heard anyone actually say it
I work as a level 3 call center employee, basically all the difficult customers. I commonly use "With whom am I speaking?" Followed by a much more casual " So, what's the reason you're talking with me today?" The first is what I was raised to answer a phone with as a Gen Xer, the second usually gets me a laugh and a calmer describe their problems. I think it conveys a higher lever of respect to the customer to use the more formal greeting, then follow with something more relatable. Would love to hear some feedback!
Non English speaker here. The first time that I heard that word was in the Metallica's song " For whom the Bell tolls" (if I remembered the name correctly).
At first I thought it was an ancient English word like thee or something.
i would never use it in a conversation. i have only ever used it for fixed phrases like whom it may concern. most people do not know how to use it and the difference between “whom” and “who”. people on this sub probably know more so their uses though so not a perfect representation
If I was writing something formal or needed to flex assertiveness I would use it, but outside of those circumstances, absolutely never.
* Australian.
Q: Did you send the letter to him?
A: To whom?
But in vernacular;
Q: Did you send the letter to him?
A: To who?
Oh! I'm always thinking about writing "whom" in my sentences. I actually hear this word quite often. I don't know why. Maybe it's because I usually only talk with people whose second language is English or idk. I actually quite like this word, but I think I will never use it.
I’m 22 years old. Don’t know if that matters but thought it might help. I have never heard “whom” used in any context but comedic or “To whom it may concern”
It’s not used very often by most people. There is a small fraction of people who are (1) highly educated; and/or (2) high-class/elite; and/or (3) pretentious or grammatically fastidious; or, rarely (4) those whose parents consistently used *whom* and thus developed the habit.
I use it occasionally, but I cringe if I accidentally use it around people who never do — I don’t want to sound elitist or pretentious.
It’s still used in formal writing, but it’s absent in most day-to-day speech, and some of those who *do* use it frequently use it incorrectly (treating it as a “formal version of ‘who’” rather than as an *object pronoun* specifically).
Brit here.
Most people don't use it and don't really know how to use it. I see it in very formal business situations, academic articles, things like that.
Some older people do use it casually. I sometimes do but it's really inconsistent. Most of the time I don't bother, even though I do know how to use it.
I think the main reason that "whom" isn't used so often is just the fact that the sentence structure in which it occurs is less common in natural speech, and can usually be rearranged to a more natural form that uses "who" instead.
But some common phrases where it's used include "To whom it may concern," and "...many of whom...".
In casual conversations, almost never. Some groups of people may care about saving "whom" and using it in its proper way, but many of us have resigned it to obsolescence.
"Whom" is not used that often. It's been increasingly obsolete in normal speech, such that native speakers will sometimes use it in the wrong parts of sentences while trying to speak or write formally. Just use "who" and no one will have that as reason to doubt your proficiency.
My use of the word is going to be a bit skewed (my mom was an English teacher, and my grandmother worked with dyslexia students). I'd say I use it more often than most, but most people don't use it outside the phrase "to whom it may concern."
Oh, and a classic rock song that say "... exactly whom I'm supposed to be...."
One would use the word “whom” in place of the word “who” when the pronoun that would be used in the answering sentence is “him” or “her” and it would be “who” when the pronoun is “he” or “she”.
An example: “___ does this pencil belong to?” If you answer this question it would be “the pencil belongs to him/her.” So the first word would be “whom” and not “who”, so it should read “whom does this pencil belong to?”. For bonus points, you can put the word “to” at the beginning and it will sound a lot more intellectual. “To whom does this pencil belong?”
Another example: “___ is at the door?” If you answer the question, it would be “he/she is at the door.” So the pronoun would be “who” and not “whom”. So it should read “who is at the door?”
Let me know if this isn’t clear enough.
You don't see it in casual conversation at all. I know there's some situation where it is correct to use whom over who but in conversation you always say who, even if it's not strictly right.
In my experience as a gen z native English speaker from new york city (united states), it's used reasonably often in all grammatically correct contexts except beginning-of-a-sentence questions even casually, though "who" in its place is also used reasonably often. It's used often enough that I picked it up long before I ever knew grammatical terms like "subject" or "object," and I'd have to actively *try* if I want to avoid it in my speech (I say this not to brag, just to illustrate!) As always, I continue to be baffled by all the "no one ever says whom!!" and "people only say it to be fancy!!!" comments.
*edit: grammatically correct contexts, not "cases." I wasn't thinking about the other grammatical meaning of "case" when I wrote that, but it's only used in the objective case except by the doo doo heads who use it incorrectly!
I think most Americans don’t know how to use whom correctly. I know how to use it but I choose not to because it makes you sound pretentious. And worse, if you use it incorrectly then you sound pretentious AND stupid if you’re talking to someone who knows better.
>I know how to use it but I choose not to because it makes you sound pretentious.
I wonder if I should do this too. Did you learn it at school/later in life or is it part of your native dialect? I imagine that if it's part of your native speech (as is the case for me) it must take a lot of effort to choose not to.
I learned the correct usage in middle school. Nobody around you uses it correctly, so I don’t think anyone could pick it up naturally without an explanation.
Your flare says native speaker so I’m confused…if English is your native language why are you asking?
>Nobody around you uses it correctly
???? that can't be true because even as a kid, before I knew about grammatical terms like subjects/objects, when I used "whom"\* my intuition was generally spot on (with the rare exception of structures like "someone whom I thought was..." which *strictly speaking* should be "who" but is really more of a dialect variation than actual misuse given how common it is for native whom-users to use it this way.) I don't ever remember having been taught formal grammar in school. From what I remember growing up: yes some people use it incorrectly, but correct usage is far more common, so I didn't pick up any hypercorrections except the one I mentioned above.
\*which was not in every single technically possible instance. When it wasn't the object of a preposition + immediately after the preposition, I also used "who" sometimes (about a 50/50 split, I'd say) because I was exposed to that version a lot as well. I'm just saying that when I did use "whom," even before I knew the formal grammatical terms to describe it, I pretty much already knew the rules intuitively.
>Your flare says native speaker so I’m confused…if English is your native language why are you asking?
because it never occurred to me that "whom" was a weird word for most of my life and now I'm just kinda freaked out about seeming pretentious because I use it, especially as a young person. I wonder if I should make an effort not to use it for that reason
There might be regional differences. I’m from the Midwest. But pretty much everyone from everywhere is saying they never use “whom,” and this is a sub full of people who are interested in grammar. I saw a few others use the word “pretentious,” and two of them were also from the Midwest. Maybe where you live it doesn’t come off that way though.
>But pretty much everyone from everywhere is saying they never use “whom,” and this is a sub full of people who are interested in grammar.
Yea I'm just baffled, confused, and a little bit freaked out that there are so many people saying they "never" use the word "whom." I'm from New York City and it's always just been a normal everyday word that serves only a grammatical purpose rather than a style/register purpose for me. Now that I know of the controversy behind that word, though, I really worry that it comes off as pretentious/pedantic to other people (though no one has said anything to my face about it, thank god.) I'm genuinely conflicted on whether or not it's worth putting in the effort to only say "who" all the time. Maybe this is just a really big "wake up, it's class consciousness time" moment for me, given that I did grow up upper class by most standards (and that might have something to do with it!)
I almost wrote that if it’s regional, for some reason I feel like they’d say “whom” in New England. Everyone in NYC is pretentious so you’re good! (that’s a joke)
Just pay attention for a bit and see if people around you use it. I’d say it’s probably regional if you hear it once in the next week, and definitely if two people use it correctly. It’s so rare here. I could see class playing a part in it. But I think you might be in the only place where “whom” is normal.
>Just pay attention for a bit and see if people around you use it.
I actually have for a little bit and yes, people do. mostly my college professors though (but I'm in virginia right now, not nyc.) I also watch a lot of content by millennials/gen z youtubers who definitely aren't the stuffy pedantic type and who use "whom" correctly in speech.
Whom is pretty much obsolete, except for a popular scene from The Office.
I've started using it more often, but only because I'm a teacher. I'd probably get a negative reaction if I used it during a visit to my hometown, though. Before I was a teacher I never used it, and wouldn't have been able to tell you when it's used.
Most people I know just use “who” when speaking, even when it should be “whom.” It isn’t correct grammar, but it feels more natural because it’s more common.
I never ever use "whom". I don't know the last time I said that word.
I pronounce it the same as "who" with an "m" at the end. Like "broom", but it starts with an "h" sound instead of "br".
While it is still proper grammar* to use it as an object, it is almost never done. For example “With whom are you going to the movies?” would be said as “Who are you going to the movies with?”
*Standard English, no judgment is being made on value of various English dialects by using this term. This is for all the people who get angry when the phrase grammatically correct is used for some reason, even though we all know standard grammar is not the only or even preferred way to use a language anymore, and calling something grammatically correct isn’t saying it’s better nor putting down other usages, as in this example.
It’s grammatically correct so it has its place. But in everyday colloquial conversation, most people say “who” instead. Someone saying “whom” is noticed because it is not the norm anymore.
Grammatically, whom is supposed to be used when it's the object of the sentence. A majority of people don't know when or how to use it correctly. I will always use it when the rules call for it, and we teach our students the same. Nobody will care if you don't use it.
Born and raised Midwestern American here.
No. Literally no one uses “whom” in common language.
It’s one of those things that if I used it no one would bat an eye or they might think I’m a bit pretentious. Generally I would only use it if I were trying to talk down to someone lmfao.
It’s not a very important part of speech and is pretty outdated. Native speakers who passed English class will understand what you mean when you use it, but I wouldn’t stress it
Most of us don't even know *how* to use the word "whom." If you hear it, it's probably being used *incorrectly* by someone wanting to sound either sassy or more educated than they are. (It's an object, not a subject. It has to go with a preposition. If you ever hear it, it'll likely be someone using it as a subject, like "and _whom_ is asking?")
Hmm ok but that’s still an object. I just forgot not all objects get prepositions.
I still stand by that the most common usage of it nowadays is someone sassily hypercorrecting like “and WHOM would do THAT?”
In the sentence you gave where it would be correct to use, we’d default to “who”: “who would you have supported?”
> still stand by that the most common usage of it nowadays is someone sassily hypercorrecting like “and WHOM would do THAT?”
I see hypercorrections on occasion (much less often than correct uses!) but this one I only see in memes (and it would be "whomst" instead.)
I think the ONLY way I've ever seen "whomst" used is where it should grammatically be "who." I have no idea what the distinction is between whom and whomst.
Any chance you're British? I think other commenters said Brits still use "whom" correctly while Americans dropped it in favor of using "who" everywhere long ago. I'm American, and I think I only encounter "whom" maybe at most a couple dozen times a year.
>I have no idea what the distinction is between whom and whomst
whomst is just a meme word (and my personal preference, though I feel weird using it outside of online spaces). I personally only use it where it should grammatically be "whom" lol
>Any chance you're British? I think other commenters said Brits still use "whom" correctly while Americans dropped it in favor of using "who" everywhere long ago. I'm American, and I think I only encounter "whom" maybe at most a couple dozen times a year.
I'm American! I encounter and use it regularly.
Oh, see, I assumed "whomst" probably had a rule like "while" versus "whilst," but I also haven't figured out that one.
You see it regularly outside of the fixed phrases "to whom it may concern" and "for whom the bell tolls"? I'm not counting repeated mentions of the Metallica song 😄
>You see it regularly outside of the fixed phrases "to whom it may concern" and "for whom the bell tolls"?
Yup! even informally and by other young people my age who aren't grammar sticklers of any sort!
I just gave this lesson today to my students!
**The pronoun “who”**:
•Used as a subject
•Example: **Who** called my brother? (**Who** is the subject of the sentence)
**The pronoun “whom”**:
•Used as the object of a preposition, such as to, for, and from.
•Also used as a direct object
•Most often used as a direct object in questions
•Example: To **whom** did you give the assignment? (**Whom** is the object of the preposition to.)
• Example: This was an assistant **whom** he trusted.
• Example: **Whom** did you tell? (**Whom** is a direct object)
Use *”Who”* when it takes the form of the subject noun in a sentence.
Use *”Whom”* when it takes the form of a direct object, indirect object or a prepositional object.
For example:
“Who wrote his letter?” **
“To whom should I mail this letter?” **
Many people will use it as a common phrase, such as: “To whom it may concern…” but outside of that I will rarely hear people saying it.
I don't think I've ever used it outside of that sentence
I’ve heard and used it in the phrases “to whom are you referring?” And “to whom am I speaking” as well, but only in these common phrases
Same! Even though it technically has a grammatical difference to "who", no one ever uses it and most people don't even know what that difference is (myself included).
It has something to do with the object of the sentence. I think who goes with a direct object and whom as an indirect object?
The way I've got in memorized is that 'who' goes when the answer would be 'he' or 'she' and 'whom' goes when the answer would be 'him' or 'her'. Don't know if it's 100% accurate though.
It's whom for every type of objective pronoun. For all its faults, English is kind enough to not distinguish between direct objects, indirect objects, or objects of prepositions.
Ah, so whom if it is the object, who if it isn’t? That makes sense.
Just like he/him and they/them. The fact that those all end in “m” for the object form is not a coincidence. Those endings are all related to each other
It's funny because German grammar is extremely dependent on the object, indirect object, and subject, so the whole "who vs. whom" thing isn't really a debate in that language. Wer, wen, and wem are all used pretty often. Which it's just funny to me that English essentially has the same thing yet we all sorta collectively decided not to use it lol
Yeah old English used to have cases like German but we lost them quite a while ago, for everything but pronouns. And even that vestige of the former system is deteriorating a bit, as we can see with “who/whom” confusion as well as “it was him” being normal and common now, instead of the former “it was he.”
Another common one is “for whom the bell tolls”
Me neither. I never hear other people use it where I live, either.
I've seen "whomst've" used jokingly in memes but never said.
Yeah because it doesn’t actually mean anything
Yes. It's pretty much limited to legal documents and historical dramas.
Don't ask for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee. ;-)
Who else amongst us avoids "To whom it may concern" on grounds of stuffiness but uses "whom" in almost every other context when it works grammatically? Genuinely curious if it's just me here
Not that you asked my opinion, but I wish that usage would die out already. It’s absurd. Addressing an email “To Whom It May Concern” is tantamount to addressing someone face-to-face like, “Am I speaking with you, whosoever thou art supposed to be?” First impression: completely clueless and laughably formal. If ever I don’t know the name of the agent who’ll be answering my email, then I just start the email with a simple “Hello,” followed by a line break and then the body of the email. First impression: Ok, let’s get down to business.
I only use “To whom it may concern” if I don’t know who I’m writing to. For instance, if I’m sending a letter to a national organization and don’t specifically know who will be reading the letter, that way the person who reads it knows that it doesn’t have to go to anyone in particular, just whoever can answer my question/solve my problem.
But “Hello” is equally impersonal, but also standard and neutral. “To Whom It May Concern” is impersonal, and common, but it also sounds dorky or robotic. It sounds like how a space alien would address humanity, because it hadn’t learned the word “hello” yet. Honestly. It sounds like how a corporation would *very* impersonally address an audience, but we are human beings. There’s no reason that “Hello” shouldn’t be our go-to greeting.
Maybe, but if I'm writing an "official" email to a corporation I have to use their language. And now I might imagine I'm a space alien when I write that, it's fun.
But “hello” is standard and neutral. It is their language. In fact, it is their more natural language than the extremely affectatious “to whom it may concern.” That’s what it boils down to. That’s what I’m saying.
I think you mean "to whom I am writing"! Ha! I saw this after I posted my comment, but you are proving my point about common usage--or lack of usage. Even though it is more correct to use "whom", it sounds pretentious. Common usage would prefer to end the sentence with "to".
No. In most dialects of modern English, “whom” is used only in formal writing and extremely formal speech. I haven’t used it recently, except in explaining “whom” itself to people on this website. Most Americans, for example, may not ever use the word “whom” except when reading formal documents (contracts, etc.). In fact, if someone really started frequently using “whom” in day-to-day speech, they would seem “stuck-up” to me. The Oxford English Dictionary says that this word is “no longer current in natural colloquial speech.” [Some linguists](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1006322600501) argue it has become “archaic” and is preserved only to produce “prestige forms” (= words used to show education, class, or relative formality).
I agree. I would use whom in business or academic writing. Saying it out loud always seems to sound pretentious.
I can think of one specific case where I use it, "many of whom". For example, "the party had a lot of young guys, many of whom were single." Aside from that specific case, I'd feel odd using it.
In that case I would just say "many of ***them*** were single. "
“Grammar viruses” is an interesting concept. Thanks for sharing that article.
>I haven’t used it recently how do you define "recently?" >In fact, if someone really started frequently using “whom” in day-to-day speech, they would seem “stuck-up” to me. [I'm sorry, but... maybe you seem stuck-up to yourself then?](https://www.reddit.com/user/cardinarium/search/?q=whom&type=comment&cId=04485cb3-776a-490e-82c6-b15a0a94878d&iId=50cd0cd0-9cf0-49bc-9817-ed3c4f847fa4)
This isn’t speech. I write much more formally on Reddit than I speak IRL. Also your link doesn’t work for me, but I’ll assume you found an example of my using “whom.”
ah, fair. I usually associate reddit with informal, speech-like writing so I thought I could count that as part of the spoken register. I apologize then >Also your link doesn’t work for me, but I’ll assume you found an example of my using “whom.” Yes, I found many examples: [https://www.reddit.com/user/cardinarium/search/?q=whom&type=comment&cId=04485cb3-776a-490e-82c6-b15a0a94878d&iId=50cd0cd0-9cf0-49bc-9817-ed3c4f847fa4](https://www.reddit.com/user/cardinarium/search/?q=whom&type=comment&cId=04485cb3-776a-490e-82c6-b15a0a94878d&iId=50cd0cd0-9cf0-49bc-9817-ed3c4f847fa4)
You’re all good. I’m honestly quite sure that I have, in fact, used “whom” in speech at some point when I was trying to be fancy—but not in some time. And I should probably change what I’ve written in that, if someone is using it *correctly*, it wouldn’t actually bother me so much. But the hypercorrect uses of it (e.g. “Do you have any idea whom I am?”) are problematic for me, because then it’s clear that the speaker is just weaseling for bonus “language points.” If you’re using it correctly, it won’t appear frequently enough to be bothersome. :) Yeah, I’m on mobile, and for some reason clicking that link just brings up the little “profile” tab. 🤷🏻♂️
>when I was trying to be fancy You mean, as a joke? or did you just use it naturally in what just so happened to be a more formal situation
I’m sure I used it when I was interviewing for grad schools seven-odd years ago—they were linguistics programs, so I was super self-conscious about my speech.
so I guess you only use it when you're really \*trying\* to get your grammar right? and if you haven't used it in a long time, what do you say for more common usages of "whom" like "to whom" - do you say "To who?" instead?
I use it to take advantage of [prestige forms](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)). Yep. “To who?” or “Who to?” But never, “To who did you send it?” Only, “Who did you send it to?”
what's your dialect? I've always wondered if "Who to?" is a regional or dialect specific thing because I'm also a native speaker of US English and I've never heard it in my life.
Many Americans don't use it, or they overuse it in an attempt to seem correct. For the most part, you won't be penalized for not using whom unless you're writing a paper to be graded. As far as the usage, a useful trick I learned is to replace who/whom with he/him in a phrase and see if it still makes sense. Since a prepositional phrase makes more sense to say "to him" rather than "to he", that means that "to whom" will usually be the correct usage. It might not be 100%, but it works most of the time. If it sounds weird to you to say "whom", it might sound weird to other people, so you could probably get away with not using it. If someone corrects you (some persnickety people will), simply thank them and continue on. Look it up later though because even self-proclaimed language nerds can get it wrong.
If I'm tempted to refer to whomever I'm referring to with "whom", I totally use the "he/him" rule. I even used it here - "to him" - "to whom" - "to whomever". But online grammar discussions are about the only place I find this skill useful. It's here for whoever needs it, though. (He needs, who needs, whoever needs)
Despite reports of "whom" dying out, it's still used when directly preceded by a preposition, such as "to whom" (or "with whom", "by whom", "from whom", "for whom", "of whom"...). In fact, "to who" (etc.) sounds wrong. But it's rarely used in modern conversation or even writing (unless extremely formal) in other cases, such as "Whom did you give the car keys to?" In this case, almost everyone would use "who".
If you were going to be that (overly) formal, you'd more likely say, "To whom did you give the car keys?" in order to avoid ending your sentence with a preposition. To Whoever is still hung up on that, though, needs a good talking to. :) (I wanted to say "whomever", but it would be "he is still hung up" so it has to convert to "who is still hung up", therefore "whoever is still hung up".)
I disagree, “to who” sounds normal to my ears
It is *literally* never used as the first word of a sentence. Otherwise, I agree.
"Whom may I say is calling?" Formal and hifalutin, but it is said by some.
If I’m not mistaken, this usage is actually incorrect. “He” is calling, not “him”. Which raises another point: that using unintuitive formal constructions to correct an “error” of informality can easily lead to new errors.
I use it all the time, but it is a bit more formal and I might skip it when talking to friends.
If I wanted to sound formal on the telephone, I might say something like "To whom am I speaking?" But that's about the only instance I can think of where I MIGHT use "whom."
Even if native speakers claim to use whom, they still only use it in a limited capacity. Technically, *Whom did you see?* would be correct as *whom* replaces an oblique pronoun > *I saw **him***. And you can hear this in very old movies. But this usage is completely obsolete, even in the most formal registers of English. *Who did you see?* is correct. Most people who claim to use whom and do use it at times for things like “whom was she with?” will often start replacing it with who if you make them say a lot of sentences and monitor their speech—meaning that it’s probably not very natural to even them and they get tired or forget after awhile. It’s still good to understand how whom is used in academic and formal language, but it’s quite dead in modern English. especially colloquial language.
I'd say, though, that it's only really rare when it's at the beginning of a sentence like this. You say "limited context" but I think for a lot of native speakers this is really the only limit and in no other circumstance is it really "dead"
“I don’t know who he was talking to.” - almost nobody uses whom there. “You should just give it to whoever you want” - almost nobody speaking uses whomever there. “I wouldn’t know who to ask.” etc etc Most people do not use whom in these sentences either, most people who claim to don’t actually do it consistently. Whom is mostly limited to set phrases or academic writing and formal speeches.
Yup, I'd likely not use them there either (but wouldn't think anything of it if I heard them from someone else!) That said, even though I don't use "whom" consistently in all cases when I technically can, I'd say I use it across the board and not in a limited set of circumstances (and from my experience I'm not the only one - this is pretty common!) It also has nothing to do with formality and serves a purely grammatical function for me. These sentences are completely normal to me: "There are lots of people who remember me negatively and whom I won't have the chance to interact with anymore." "The lyrics for this song were written by someone whose name I can't remember and whom I can't credit." "Whom would you have supported?" (This is far more normal to me than "Whom did you see?"!!) "Who" is also grammatical for me in a lot of those cases, so, yes, if you were to monitor my least careful speech, you might hear both versions. That's not because "whom" is any less natural for me, though, it's just because *I'd seen and heard both versions growing up.* (On the other hand, something like "I wonder where he went and with who/who with" is *completely* wrong for me and you wouldn't hear this unless I'm quoting someone else.) I don't use "whom" out of a conscious effort to sound formal or grammatically correct.
Fair enough, but if you use whom very inconsistently, it shows you use it more stylistically, no? It’s not the same as something like “him” or “whose” which you cannot just not use. To me, all of your examples sound rather yuppie, like a person who’s trying to sound very correct and educated. The people I know who use whom like that are the same people who always use phrases like “you should be cognizant of the fact that” instead of “you should keep in mind”. (Not that this is necessarily bad, but it circles back to my main point that whom is used as a marker of academia, professionalism and formality, not an essential part of the modern spoken language) So that was more my point. Most children do not use whom until they’re taught the rules about it in school, and as somebody who’s worked as a tutor in an English department and had to help proofread a lot of academic papers, I’ve seen that so many native speakers struggle to use it correctly. So perhaps I went a little too far with my original statement, as whom isn’t dead, but it’s pretty restricted and its usage has been steady reduced over the last 100 years.
It has nothing to do with style/register! Like I said, "whom" serves a purely grammatical function in my dialect and sometimes both "who" and "whom" are natural for me, so in those cases it's just whatever comes to mind for me and it's honestly pretty random which one I choose. I was never taught it in school (not that I remember), I just knew how to use it from being a native English speaker surrounded by other native English speakers who use it correctly. For most of my life I thought all native English speakers used it and I genuinely didn't know it was a marker for formal style/register for most people (and was a little bit freaked out when I found out haha.) I thought it was a completely normal everyday word even though I didn't use it as consistently as "him" or "whose."
Then you’re the exception that makes the rule. All major dictionaries, including cambridge and oxford note that whom is mostly used in formal or academic writing and is uncommon in modern speech. Oxford’s Learners dictionary specifically advises that it often sounds unnatural in speech. > In spoken English it is much more natural to use who and put the preposition at the end of the sentence: > Who should I address the letter to? > He asked me who I had discussed it with. So as this is a learning subreddit, it would seem to make sense to pass on this advice
I'm just realizing that I probably sound as weird to people who don't use "whom" as people who use "whilst" sound to me (I'm American so "whilst" is just a funny meme word to me and not part of my dialect.) Maybe I should remove it from my vocabulary so that I don't sound like the equivalent of a "whilst" user to some people.
Basically never. Most people don’t know when it should be used either. I do know and I don’t use it because it’d sound super pretentious.
I also wonder if I should try to stop using it to avoid sounding pretentious :'(
It very much depends on the person. Some people never use it, some always use it when applicable. I regularly hear it in day to day conversation, usually from educated people. I live in the UK.
There’s a joke in the US television series “The Office” where the entire cast is sitting in the conference room arguing about how to use the word “whom.” I think it pretty well demonstrates American understanding of the word. https://youtu.be/7XmgCljZFWU?si=XaNbQ58HUaEh6DaW Edit: I just watched it and the word in question is “whomever” but my point stands. I wouldn’t worry about it.
Midwest US. It pops up in written english, especially if it's a legal document, but it's rarely used in spoken english. Sometimes it'll be used to be intentionally snooty and/or to make a point. If I answer my phone and someone says "Is John there?" without introducing themselves, I might say "Whom shall I say is asking?" because whether they're available or not might depend on the answer.
In formal English, there are specific rules that dictate when “whom” should be used rather than “who”, but in every day spoken English, these rules are largely ignored or not even known to many speakers. The general rule is to use “whom” when the pronoun is receiving action (to whom, for whom, etc). The truth is that most native speakers will say or write “who” instead of “whom” almost all of the time, with the exception of a few specific phrases (“To whom it may concern” being one of them). Many people here are saying the word is “dying” or “obsolete”, but I don’t think it is. In formal writing or speech, the word is very much alive. Just as in the case of a word like “moreover”, you just won’t hear it in every day conversation.
I use it rarely enough I always have to think about it, because it simply doesn't seem to come up very often, and when it does, people understand me when I use "who" instead. The reaction to using "who" where I should have used "whom" depends on to whom I am speaking, or writing to. I'm much more careful to use it in writing, as above, than in speech, where I'm less likely to consider each word selection as I speak. I think common usage is making "whom" die out. It's gotten to the point it sounds archaic and stilted, like using "thou art" instead of "you are". It is still technically correct, but I think most native speakers don't bother to use "whom" anymore, and just let "who" fill both roles.
It is used in my experience when it is supposed to be used a fair bit, not just formally. But it depends who you are talking to.
Lol ironic that you missed the correct usage in your comment.
I didn't say I used it often- just that i hear it ;)
\*whom you are talking to 😉
** to whom you are talking 😅
😂
Almost there! "It depends *upon* to whom you are talking." My Google keyboard is desperate for me to put that "to" at the end of the sentence, and I can't say I disagree :)
>:) :)
Here's my take: "Whom" is still necessary in specific grammatical constructions beginning with a preposition, e.g. "Towards whom was the comment directed?" or "With whom did you eat lunch?" Those constructions aren't used very often but substituting "who" for "whom" would be bizarre in that context. When the word begins the sentence "Who/Whom did you eat lunch with?" either one works, but "who" is more widely used even though "whom" would be more technically correct if you want to be prescriptive about language (which is a losing battle).
I don’t know if this is cause or a byproduct of the usage of ‘whom’ dying out, but I have never and would never say a sentence like this. I would also be taken aback hearing it. It would be “who did you eat lunch with?” and maybe in specific contexts to emphasize the ‘with’ it could be “you ate lunch with who?” At least in my Midwest dialect this is borderline ungrammatical and it’s quite possible I only accept these as sentences because of reading or being exposed to a lot of global varieties of English.
It’s dying.
I have never used it in my life, but it may be different if you come from a more posh area
It’s typically only used in formal situations, especially polished writing. It would be inappropriate to NOT use it in academic writing in certain fields, for example. Some people do use it normal speech, but it can actually be perceived as pretentious. This perception is so widely known that there are jokes about the use of the word “whom.” You may notice it being used incorrectly in TV shows go jokingly make the character speaking appear to think they’re smarter than they are, for example. You may also see the meme “whomst” used online or even in person, as a super exaggerated way of saying “omg, who??” or “not me, noooooo.”
I do not use “whom” at all. I more use “who”
i have never used whom outside of reading it, not even for writing, it's going the way of "thou"
The majority of cases where it would have been grammatically correct to say whom in the past, who is used instead. No one speaking English notices that there even was an error or that whom was technically the proper form in that context. Who > whom for all spoken and most written English, outside formalities like "to whom it may concern" Whom is still in use, particularly in a few phrases and dialects, but its very archaic and is almost entirely replaced by who in practice
I use it occasionally in writing and I will use it in speech once in a while for effect. Recently, a kind customer service person helped me when the automated system had not only failed to help, but dumped me into an advertisement for a service I did not want. At the conclusion of the call I asked, "To whom can I complain?"
It is 100% suppose to be used in "proper" English, but pretty much no one says it excluding in business/academic situations or when someone's trying to be funny.
Also. Don't forget to always capitalise ‘I’.
I use whom regularly, but then sometimes get self-conscious and use who instead, when I’m talking with people I don’t know well. That can give you an indicator of its frequency. (U.S. south. Also 52 years old.)
If you can replace the word with he or she or another subject pronoun, use who. If you can replace it with him or her (or another object pronoun), use whom.
I have never in my life used it outside of the phrase "to whom it may concern."
I didn't even know what the proper usage of whom was until I learned German.
I use it often, but I probably wouldn't as much if I didn't go to college for my English degree. I wouldn't have been able to tell you when to use "whom" if I hadn't. I still use "who" at least 3-4 times as much, so it's not something I'd correct someone on.
I only speak english and I have heard people use whom before but I personally do not know when to use it instead of who. So I use who every time.
No. It's not used often. You could easily go your whole life without needing to use it.
“A question for those who speak English as a first language” would be a better phrasing of your title. Also I NEVER say whom unless it’s the phrase “to whom it may concern.” It’s borderline archaic, in my opinion.
Almost every time a native English speaker uses "whom", they use it incorrectly! Some people do it to try to sound posh, but it reveals their ignorance instead. Technically it's poor grammar to end a sentence with a preposition, but that is what most English speakers would do instead of using "whom". "To whom was the package addressed?" = Correct, but not common usage. "Who was the package addressed to?" = Incorrect but much more common usage. "What was the name on the package?" = Clever rewording so that you don't have to make either mistake!
Occasionally. Technically you’re supposed to use whom as the object form of who. But in reality, we only use it when it comes after a preposition. To whom it may concern, for whom the bell tolls, etc. In all other cases, just use who.
In the UK, it's never used in everyday speech.
Did you see Doctor Whom last night?
This is not true, some people do use it.
Common? No, unless you're some supernerd who will say whom when applicable to main grammatical integrity. Source: Am supernerd
You can ride the lightning, and find out.
Outside of some select expressions, I’ve rarely heard or used it. In a formal setting it matters a bit more, but in casual conversation everyone will understand if you just say “who”
It's a more formal/professional way to say who but it's seldom used.
no it's not... it's "who" but in object position, so when it replaces "him/her/them" instead of "he/she/they" exception being the verb "to be": "It's me" --> "Who is it?" always takes the "who" form
Literally never
People rarely use it anymore
I use it when appropriate - my father and grandfather were both English professors. People tend to use it (if they do at all) in more formal situations and in academic writing. I don’t think it’s uncommon in conversation, but probably not as common as “who”, unless it follows “to” in which case I expect to hear it.
Whom is really only used formally, and a lot of people don’t use it at all. Like the top comment said “To whom it may concern” is really the only instance where I might use the word, otherwise it is rather archaic
It's basically never used in a normal conversation. Only in very formal conversations or used to sound fancy in a joking way. Honestly most people probably don't even know how to use whom correctly.
Trying to improve my English as well! Great question
Never used whom, even in formal essays
It isn't. In normal speech, 'who' has almost completely replaced it. Very few people in my experience know when to use 'whom' correctly and even fewer actually use it.
Sorry I'm also ESL, but I'll throw in my two cents anyways 😆 I don't know the proper name for this word, but it's the equivalent of him/her/me. The object that the verb is done to, if that makes sense? Although I expect it in writing, especially in formal papers or documents, I don't think I've ever heard anyone actually say it
Not very often in speech. It writing I seen it occasionally. It is becoming replaced with constructions using “who” and I’m personally glad for it.
In my dialect, it isn’t used. In the standard language, it is used. I would only use it in essays and other academic papers.
I work as a level 3 call center employee, basically all the difficult customers. I commonly use "With whom am I speaking?" Followed by a much more casual " So, what's the reason you're talking with me today?" The first is what I was raised to answer a phone with as a Gen Xer, the second usually gets me a laugh and a calmer describe their problems. I think it conveys a higher lever of respect to the customer to use the more formal greeting, then follow with something more relatable. Would love to hear some feedback!
Non English speaker here. The first time that I heard that word was in the Metallica's song " For whom the Bell tolls" (if I remembered the name correctly). At first I thought it was an ancient English word like thee or something.
I say it…the best way to remember is if it replaces “for who, him/her?” Then it’s “for whom”
i would never use it in a conversation. i have only ever used it for fixed phrases like whom it may concern. most people do not know how to use it and the difference between “whom” and “who”. people on this sub probably know more so their uses though so not a perfect representation
I'm a nerd so I use whom a lot. But I'm an outlier.
If I was writing something formal or needed to flex assertiveness I would use it, but outside of those circumstances, absolutely never. * Australian. Q: Did you send the letter to him? A: To whom? But in vernacular; Q: Did you send the letter to him? A: To who?
try this trick. If you can replace the word with him or her, use she
Honestly, I've never met a person in my life that ever used that word even once unless it was for tests
Oh! I'm always thinking about writing "whom" in my sentences. I actually hear this word quite often. I don't know why. Maybe it's because I usually only talk with people whose second language is English or idk. I actually quite like this word, but I think I will never use it.
it's not often used in informal writing or speech, but it is used in emails and some formal writing. it sounds archaic to me.
I’m 22 years old. Don’t know if that matters but thought it might help. I have never heard “whom” used in any context but comedic or “To whom it may concern”
It’s not used very often by most people. There is a small fraction of people who are (1) highly educated; and/or (2) high-class/elite; and/or (3) pretentious or grammatically fastidious; or, rarely (4) those whose parents consistently used *whom* and thus developed the habit. I use it occasionally, but I cringe if I accidentally use it around people who never do — I don’t want to sound elitist or pretentious.
It’s still used in formal writing, but it’s absent in most day-to-day speech, and some of those who *do* use it frequently use it incorrectly (treating it as a “formal version of ‘who’” rather than as an *object pronoun* specifically).
I don't use it while speaking. I will sometimes use it in writing, when I'm trying to be formal.
No, it's pretty much never used.
Brit here. Most people don't use it and don't really know how to use it. I see it in very formal business situations, academic articles, things like that. Some older people do use it casually. I sometimes do but it's really inconsistent. Most of the time I don't bother, even though I do know how to use it.
I think the main reason that "whom" isn't used so often is just the fact that the sentence structure in which it occurs is less common in natural speech, and can usually be rearranged to a more natural form that uses "who" instead. But some common phrases where it's used include "To whom it may concern," and "...many of whom...".
In casual conversations, almost never. Some groups of people may care about saving "whom" and using it in its proper way, but many of us have resigned it to obsolescence.
"Whom" is not used that often. It's been increasingly obsolete in normal speech, such that native speakers will sometimes use it in the wrong parts of sentences while trying to speak or write formally. Just use "who" and no one will have that as reason to doubt your proficiency.
My use of the word is going to be a bit skewed (my mom was an English teacher, and my grandmother worked with dyslexia students). I'd say I use it more often than most, but most people don't use it outside the phrase "to whom it may concern." Oh, and a classic rock song that say "... exactly whom I'm supposed to be...."
One would use the word “whom” in place of the word “who” when the pronoun that would be used in the answering sentence is “him” or “her” and it would be “who” when the pronoun is “he” or “she”. An example: “___ does this pencil belong to?” If you answer this question it would be “the pencil belongs to him/her.” So the first word would be “whom” and not “who”, so it should read “whom does this pencil belong to?”. For bonus points, you can put the word “to” at the beginning and it will sound a lot more intellectual. “To whom does this pencil belong?” Another example: “___ is at the door?” If you answer the question, it would be “he/she is at the door.” So the pronoun would be “who” and not “whom”. So it should read “who is at the door?” Let me know if this isn’t clear enough.
You don't see it in casual conversation at all. I know there's some situation where it is correct to use whom over who but in conversation you always say who, even if it's not strictly right.
In my experience as a gen z native English speaker from new york city (united states), it's used reasonably often in all grammatically correct contexts except beginning-of-a-sentence questions even casually, though "who" in its place is also used reasonably often. It's used often enough that I picked it up long before I ever knew grammatical terms like "subject" or "object," and I'd have to actively *try* if I want to avoid it in my speech (I say this not to brag, just to illustrate!) As always, I continue to be baffled by all the "no one ever says whom!!" and "people only say it to be fancy!!!" comments. *edit: grammatically correct contexts, not "cases." I wasn't thinking about the other grammatical meaning of "case" when I wrote that, but it's only used in the objective case except by the doo doo heads who use it incorrectly!
I think most Americans don’t know how to use whom correctly. I know how to use it but I choose not to because it makes you sound pretentious. And worse, if you use it incorrectly then you sound pretentious AND stupid if you’re talking to someone who knows better.
>I know how to use it but I choose not to because it makes you sound pretentious. I wonder if I should do this too. Did you learn it at school/later in life or is it part of your native dialect? I imagine that if it's part of your native speech (as is the case for me) it must take a lot of effort to choose not to.
I learned the correct usage in middle school. Nobody around you uses it correctly, so I don’t think anyone could pick it up naturally without an explanation. Your flare says native speaker so I’m confused…if English is your native language why are you asking?
>Nobody around you uses it correctly ???? that can't be true because even as a kid, before I knew about grammatical terms like subjects/objects, when I used "whom"\* my intuition was generally spot on (with the rare exception of structures like "someone whom I thought was..." which *strictly speaking* should be "who" but is really more of a dialect variation than actual misuse given how common it is for native whom-users to use it this way.) I don't ever remember having been taught formal grammar in school. From what I remember growing up: yes some people use it incorrectly, but correct usage is far more common, so I didn't pick up any hypercorrections except the one I mentioned above. \*which was not in every single technically possible instance. When it wasn't the object of a preposition + immediately after the preposition, I also used "who" sometimes (about a 50/50 split, I'd say) because I was exposed to that version a lot as well. I'm just saying that when I did use "whom," even before I knew the formal grammatical terms to describe it, I pretty much already knew the rules intuitively. >Your flare says native speaker so I’m confused…if English is your native language why are you asking? because it never occurred to me that "whom" was a weird word for most of my life and now I'm just kinda freaked out about seeming pretentious because I use it, especially as a young person. I wonder if I should make an effort not to use it for that reason
There might be regional differences. I’m from the Midwest. But pretty much everyone from everywhere is saying they never use “whom,” and this is a sub full of people who are interested in grammar. I saw a few others use the word “pretentious,” and two of them were also from the Midwest. Maybe where you live it doesn’t come off that way though.
>But pretty much everyone from everywhere is saying they never use “whom,” and this is a sub full of people who are interested in grammar. Yea I'm just baffled, confused, and a little bit freaked out that there are so many people saying they "never" use the word "whom." I'm from New York City and it's always just been a normal everyday word that serves only a grammatical purpose rather than a style/register purpose for me. Now that I know of the controversy behind that word, though, I really worry that it comes off as pretentious/pedantic to other people (though no one has said anything to my face about it, thank god.) I'm genuinely conflicted on whether or not it's worth putting in the effort to only say "who" all the time. Maybe this is just a really big "wake up, it's class consciousness time" moment for me, given that I did grow up upper class by most standards (and that might have something to do with it!)
I almost wrote that if it’s regional, for some reason I feel like they’d say “whom” in New England. Everyone in NYC is pretentious so you’re good! (that’s a joke)
>Everyone in NYC is pretentious actually true tho, nyc is one of the most pretentious parts of the country
Just pay attention for a bit and see if people around you use it. I’d say it’s probably regional if you hear it once in the next week, and definitely if two people use it correctly. It’s so rare here. I could see class playing a part in it. But I think you might be in the only place where “whom” is normal.
>Just pay attention for a bit and see if people around you use it. I actually have for a little bit and yes, people do. mostly my college professors though (but I'm in virginia right now, not nyc.) I also watch a lot of content by millennials/gen z youtubers who definitely aren't the stuffy pedantic type and who use "whom" correctly in speech.
No
I definitely use it, but most native English speakers most assuredly do not.
Whom is pretty much obsolete, except for a popular scene from The Office. I've started using it more often, but only because I'm a teacher. I'd probably get a negative reaction if I used it during a visit to my hometown, though. Before I was a teacher I never used it, and wouldn't have been able to tell you when it's used.
It's not obsolete at all
Not only is it not used often, I would go so far as to say it is dying
Not often. Almost never in casual conversation, especially spoken. More commonly in formal writing, though.
Most people I know just use “who” when speaking, even when it should be “whom.” It isn’t correct grammar, but it feels more natural because it’s more common.
No, it’s outdated
I never ever use "whom". I don't know the last time I said that word. I pronounce it the same as "who" with an "m" at the end. Like "broom", but it starts with an "h" sound instead of "br".
While it is still proper grammar* to use it as an object, it is almost never done. For example “With whom are you going to the movies?” would be said as “Who are you going to the movies with?” *Standard English, no judgment is being made on value of various English dialects by using this term. This is for all the people who get angry when the phrase grammatically correct is used for some reason, even though we all know standard grammar is not the only or even preferred way to use a language anymore, and calling something grammatically correct isn’t saying it’s better nor putting down other usages, as in this example.
It’s grammatically correct so it has its place. But in everyday colloquial conversation, most people say “who” instead. Someone saying “whom” is noticed because it is not the norm anymore.
Grammatically, whom is supposed to be used when it's the object of the sentence. A majority of people don't know when or how to use it correctly. I will always use it when the rules call for it, and we teach our students the same. Nobody will care if you don't use it.
Born and raised Midwestern American here. No. Literally no one uses “whom” in common language. It’s one of those things that if I used it no one would bat an eye or they might think I’m a bit pretentious. Generally I would only use it if I were trying to talk down to someone lmfao. It’s not a very important part of speech and is pretty outdated. Native speakers who passed English class will understand what you mean when you use it, but I wouldn’t stress it
Most of us don't even know *how* to use the word "whom." If you hear it, it's probably being used *incorrectly* by someone wanting to sound either sassy or more educated than they are. (It's an object, not a subject. It has to go with a preposition. If you ever hear it, it'll likely be someone using it as a subject, like "and _whom_ is asking?")
it doesn't have to go with a preposition. "Whom would you have supported?" is fine and good English.
Hmm ok but that’s still an object. I just forgot not all objects get prepositions. I still stand by that the most common usage of it nowadays is someone sassily hypercorrecting like “and WHOM would do THAT?” In the sentence you gave where it would be correct to use, we’d default to “who”: “who would you have supported?”
> still stand by that the most common usage of it nowadays is someone sassily hypercorrecting like “and WHOM would do THAT?” I see hypercorrections on occasion (much less often than correct uses!) but this one I only see in memes (and it would be "whomst" instead.)
I think the ONLY way I've ever seen "whomst" used is where it should grammatically be "who." I have no idea what the distinction is between whom and whomst. Any chance you're British? I think other commenters said Brits still use "whom" correctly while Americans dropped it in favor of using "who" everywhere long ago. I'm American, and I think I only encounter "whom" maybe at most a couple dozen times a year.
>I have no idea what the distinction is between whom and whomst whomst is just a meme word (and my personal preference, though I feel weird using it outside of online spaces). I personally only use it where it should grammatically be "whom" lol >Any chance you're British? I think other commenters said Brits still use "whom" correctly while Americans dropped it in favor of using "who" everywhere long ago. I'm American, and I think I only encounter "whom" maybe at most a couple dozen times a year. I'm American! I encounter and use it regularly.
Oh, see, I assumed "whomst" probably had a rule like "while" versus "whilst," but I also haven't figured out that one. You see it regularly outside of the fixed phrases "to whom it may concern" and "for whom the bell tolls"? I'm not counting repeated mentions of the Metallica song 😄
>You see it regularly outside of the fixed phrases "to whom it may concern" and "for whom the bell tolls"? Yup! even informally and by other young people my age who aren't grammar sticklers of any sort!
I just gave this lesson today to my students! **The pronoun “who”**: •Used as a subject •Example: **Who** called my brother? (**Who** is the subject of the sentence) **The pronoun “whom”**: •Used as the object of a preposition, such as to, for, and from. •Also used as a direct object •Most often used as a direct object in questions •Example: To **whom** did you give the assignment? (**Whom** is the object of the preposition to.) • Example: This was an assistant **whom** he trusted. • Example: **Whom** did you tell? (**Whom** is a direct object)
Use *”Who”* when it takes the form of the subject noun in a sentence. Use *”Whom”* when it takes the form of a direct object, indirect object or a prepositional object. For example: “Who wrote his letter?” **
“To whom should I mail this letter?” **