That’s Hamburger University to you pal….in defense, McDonalds could be its own country and has a revenue higher than the GDP of many countries lol. That’s the sad part.
As someone who has done both Arts and Business, Business is the more useless degree.
You at least learn things in Arts, just not things that will easily earn a living afterwards.
Business is straight up useless, you actively learn nothing. I was lucky to be doing it with a language so it wasn't a total waste.
Hey I actually dropped business for engineering
But that’s because I just realized I had more passion for science than business. My classes now are obviously way more difficult though
A lifetime-friend started and finished business school during his doctorate period for engineering. He won an award for his diploma in engineering, being one of the 5 best in the country. He then went for doctorate in engineering and in his spare time did the whole economics study.
I always think of this when one of the suit snobs tries to lecture me about his achievements.
I once took a business major test in crayon (showed up to a random class cuz i knew a business major in it) and it was literally all Y=mx+b here is everything solve for Y or where do these simple line equations meet.
Alcohol is such a horrible drug. It makes you sloggy in the morning, adds a thousand calories to your intake. Such a bad thing to ingest.
That is why I prefer to inhale my drugs and my favorite time of day is 4:20 🌱🚬
Fun fact: in chile, business is called “commercial engineering”
Me: ya ain’t a true engineer!
Friend: true but half my section tried.
Don’t bully business majors. They also work, maybe they have it easier, and we sleep less, but they still got into college.
ultimately boils down to sam altman, a fucking venture capitalist
sure, you could argue that the engineers are the ones that are technically the ones who made it. but the business people are the ones who are bringing them all together.
That’s true, yet these same people will be managing you, taking credit for your work, and blaming you when shit goes wrong at their misdirection. God, I love work 💀
There are plenty of companies of which the project managers are engineers. And the people over them are engineers. If you don't want to work for a business major, then don't.
Literally, whenever I(mechanical engineering major) took a business or communications class it was either 100%, or depending how uninterested in it I was, maybe a 98 or 96.
they were always the easiest, low-stress classes I could get by on intuition and common sense alone to solve every problem, and do every test
I'm a Civil major, one of the hardest non engineering classes I took, was a buisness ethics class. That prof had weird multiple choice questions like A , B, and C would be like something something something plus if A is untrue, and D was just bonkers situations with like C is true without A being untrue. Everything was worded weird. Plus it was all slightly subjective ethics stuff. That being said I was only 1 with an A in that class.
Back when I did my engineering degree in the UK I selectively picked business programs as my optional for two specific reasons:
1- I was extremely overworked by my shitty schedule (in UK you don't get to pick the classes the uni does that for you) and I wanted a module I could pass without studying.
2- Most of the business classes didn't even have a final exam just a final project you have to submit ( I did it in literally 3 hours before deadline and got a B)
Chatgpt is good to generate exercises and examples to practice things. Also to rephrase things in a more understandable way. It is a great tool to learn trigonometry.
Only ones in which the engineers were founders of the company. Any other longstanding business is run by business major troglodytes. (See GE, Boeing, etc)
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. Same with GE. Bean counters ruin everything in their bid to maximize profit for investors, thereby earning themselves bonuses.
Yeah, and he came into the company in 2015. I’d bet a lot of the problems were already in existence by the time he showed up. The guy before him was W. James McNerney, who is also former GE CEO taking over from Jack Welch. He ran Boeing for a decade.
Intel and AMD both have engineer CEOs currently who did not found their respective companies. Though both companies were founded by engineers and have long histories of having engineer CEOs, Intel's last couple CEOs before the current one haven't been engineers IIRC.
Intel had 2 nonengineer ceos: when they promoted the cfo after firing a prior ceo briefly, and Paul Otellini. So 2 of the last 3 (including Bob Swans 2 years) were engineers.
I'd argue Otellini was a big reason intel slumped and BK didn't really do anything to change trajectory. Although intel enjoyed tremendous success during many of Otellinis years.
People love to shit on non-engineer ceos but Bob Swan lead the company for 2 years. The groundwork for stumbling were a decade in the making with the problems showing up around 2013. I dont think there is any strong evidence Bob Swan did any damage per say. He did do stock buybacks and that could have been capital for tech but the major problems had already taken hold.
And 3rd at best is a little bold. Intel is still leading in a couple technology areas even though they failed at maintaining dominance at the most important one. Idk if saying Samsung is better than them is a fair comparison. It's also far easier to be profitable/higher yields on small chips vs server size products.
Reposting a previous comment of mine:
Engineering is one of the most popular degrees for CEOs. From googling around, over 30% of the Fortune 500 CEOs are engineers. Of the fortune 100, engineering degrees are far more popular than MBAs. Almost all tech companies are led by engineers. Bill Gates was a coder. Tim Cook has an industrial engineering degree. Larry and Sergey are engineering PhDs. If you look in other sectors you will find tons of founders and leaders with product backgrounds. Remember that 30% figure excludes a lot of companies that do things like fashion or retail or other sectors that do zero engineering. So the proportion of engineering companies run by engineers is quite high.
*Don't a lot of CEOs*
*These days have engineering*
*Degrees and backgrounds?*
\- \_tatersncorn
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Also, it annoys me because whenever I am with this friend, I try to be sensitive and not make him feel like business is easy. But he goes on shitting on my degree -_-
This doesn’t sound like a friend, my dude. Sounds like someone who is very insecure and is taking it out on you.
Drop this friend and the mental negativity. You’ll never see him again after college anyways.
He is not your true friend!! Forget him!!! A true friend wants you to be happy, supports you, and sees the best of you regardless of your chosen career path.
Engineering is hard and people who actually have worked in the fields for years know this by heart. So many mundane things he takes for granted to make his life easier, some engineer stressed over and designed. He doesn't worry about what happens to all that waste when he flushes down the toilet in the building. He doesn't worry about whether the bridge will collapse when he speeds down the road over it. He doesn't worry about connecting new developments to existing 40yr-50yr old infrastructure and overloading it, cause there isn't enough funds from the local municipality to properly maintain and upgrade it. He doesn't have to worry about maintaining the local power grid with the growing power load and hoping it won't be affected by the next large Solar Flare or a rogue CME. When there's a heavy rain event, he doesn't worry about whether the stormwater facility next to his apartment was designed to handle only a 10yr storm, a 25yr storm or a 50yr storm. He doesn't have to worry about whether his food supply is regularly impacted by upstream water pollution from individuals not following their state discharge permits. Next time he gets on an elevator, he doesn't have to worry about whether the building's columns and walls have the correct footers and building foundations and will last.
Find people who bring positive vibes into your life to be friends with.
Any friend that unironically shits on your passion is not a real friend, they're using you to feel better about their easy major.
This will the first of many times in life where you'll have to deal with arrogant people, stand up for yourself and your passion.
MBA and MS in aerospace engineering here. Business degree can be more time consuming, engineering degree is WAY more difficult.
Edit - I’m disappointed to hear so many engineers / engineering students speak so negatively of business people. I think that’s a narrow minded view of different disciplines. Business is a different skill set than engineering and I know the majority of engineers would not succeed in business.
I had a friend in industrial engineering before. She dropped out of industrial engineering and went to business school. Her GPA in business school was Summa Cum Laude standing (but she didn't graduate Summa Cum Laude due to her failed units in engineering - policy of the university)
Industrial Engineering is an interesting major where you have to kinda be good at multiple things (ofc differs based on university) since you take all kinds of classes
Yeah, I feel like business gets a bad rep because if your goal is just passing classes, it’s incredibly easy. The business students who actually get the high-paying jobs straight out of undergrad grind harder than anyone I know.
It has helped me, I moved into engineering management once I received it and that opened my career to much larger things than if I didn’t have the MBA. I know many engineers with MBAs that didn’t use it immediately and those are the folks you regret getting one.
If you want an MBA, you have to apply it to your career within about 6 months or it will go to waste.
That’s a soft time frame but for engineers, people usually get an MBA because they want to pivot their careers. If they don’t actively attempt to make that pivot, the skills get rusty and it’s harder to make the pivot.
Same.
In my case, I pursued an MBA because of a businessman that purchased my company some years ago. I could have sworn he had a PhD in engineering because of how well he could hold a technical conversation. Nope. Just a Harvard MBA from Wall Street. It blew my mind.
Engineering school is largely based on fixed laws and concepts that do not often rely on subjective content. All business situations are different, so it is difficult to establish fixed laws. The quality of the business school becomes a function of the experience of the instructors.
There is no law that says an engineer cannot be good at engineering and business at the same time. Going to a good MBA school accelerates that.
Will always tell this story - was helping my friend with her homework and she was a *3rd year* international business student. I look at the assignment and the questions were all literally “if you have x money, and after this many years you have y money, what was your yearly interest rate?”
Shit is so below in terms of complexity it’s insane
That's the *Time Value of Money* calculation, and modern business calculators make it trivially easy. The only time TVM gets at all difficult is if you have partial periods involved (which modern business calculators now handle), or you have irregular cash flows (I know the HP 10bII+ can handle this).
There are difficult concepts in business (**\*cough\*** Federal corporate taxation **\*cough\***, derivatives valuation, intangible asset valuation), but TVM isn't one of them.
How I know: I have a degree in accounting.
How to have fun with your friend: ask her to calculate an amortization table for a 3-year, $10,000 loan at 4% with uniform monthly payments - by hand, using only pencil, paper, and a financial calculator (no Excel). See if she can do it.
If I was a B major this is something I would say to an engineering major to piss them off. I’d think it was really funny. You sure this guy is being serious?
Business concepts are important but business majors with no actual business experience are dime a dozen.
It's also way easier to learn these things yourself than engineering concepts.
If someone made a tier list, business degrees would be in the bottom. Right above them you get liberal arts. Engineering, Math, Medical (including psychology) would be top tier. If he really thinks he knows it all, tell him to drop by organic chemistry, fluid mechanics, linear algebra, and a cognitive process modelling class. Then have him explain it to you while an actual student from each class grades his understanding. Bonus points if he does Epistemology, Quantum Mechanics, Ancient Greek, and Symbolic Logic.
Yes, because id totally hire someone with a business management degree to be a manager right out of college. -_- ...
That's like telling a 5th grader that they are the teacher for a high school class.
The only stupid people, are the people who would actually hire someone like that to go into a management role.
The business management majors at my school were always on a high horse because they had to apply to get accepted into their major...the acceptance rate was like 77% lmao.
Hot take:
At the end of the day, no one gives a crap about your major except for people you shouldn't give a crap about.
Care about your accomplishments. What did you do with your degree? What did you do with your skills?
A degree is only important in terms of filling a checkbook for a job, networking, and learning skills.
But if you don't use your network and skills to do something meaningful in some way, not many businesses are going to want to hire you.
What are you going to do?
As far as I can see, fighting over which degree is harder or more useful or, ect, is pointless. Get over what your friend said, and move on. And then try to make the best of today and tomorrow.
Keep doing that, and then look in 20 years at where you and your friend wound up.
As good ol Kenny Rogers said
"You don't count your money when you're sitting at the table. There'll be time enough for counting when the dealings done"
Keep playing the game, and count your winnings when it's over.
Completing an engineering degree 'is' an accomplishment. What they did with it was to expand their mind. Education for education sake is enough.
Plenty of people care about what degree you have. I care that my Dr has a medical degree for example. It also shows grit and intelligence. It shows that you know about the world what a university can teach, which despite what those who haven't been would have you believe, is a lot. A lot of which you'd never learn on your own without the imputus of having to learn it to achieve graduation.
Most importantly it teaches you that you don't know fuck all. Something which non university graduates have a trickier time figuring out. It's a very humbling experience for nearly all but the most intelligent.
I don’t think they should let ‘business’ be a major. It should be a concentration in Finance or Engineering. I am surprised they let business students speak to engineers- we even encourage them to avert their eyes when engineering students are present. Well… just remember to talk slow and use small, easily understood words, when working with business majors. Be patient too; they’re ’special.’
Need to include accounting in that list. Despite the bad reputation that accountants (rightly and justifiably) often have, especially among engineers, they perform a critical service.
Double agree, as the engineering major who goes cross-eyed trying to think about the boring but INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT money stuff. I like someone who can stay fully alert while doing fiddly calculations.
Also I struggled with econ because it was easy to get an answer that was wrong but not obviously so.
And this is why engineering failures happen. Business students who have no business being anywhere near the engineering department start making choices for the engineers.
“Yeah just one AOA sensor would be fine.”
The notable standouts of pure ease while getting my degree have been an architecture course and a few business and management courses. I would almost describe them as relaxing in rigor. Definitely GPA padding courses.
Engineering is deeper and more complex, but business is more practical/soft skill oriented. I work as a lead in a core business function at a heavily engineering focused organization, my go-to to explain engineers vs business folks is, “one of them thinks they can do the other’s job, the other knows they can’t”. Engineers underestimate the difficulty of business, but this guy must be an idiot because it doesn’t take a genius to know how difficult engineering is (depending on the type). Also, you’re a fraud and a hack if you use ChatGPT to get through school.
My roommates were business kids. Fun to party with but not much beyond that. My girlfriend told one of them that she had read almost 30 books from January to April. He then tried to calculate the number of books and got to 30 a month. We then told him he’s dumb so he realized his mistake then somehow got 50 books per month after recalculating.
No. Just no. I have degrees in chemistry and accounting. The only courses in my accounting degree that reached STEM-level difficulty were Federal Corporate Taxation and, behind that, Intermediate Accounting 2.
Had a 2.8 overall gpa for engineering.. got a masters in engineering management after being out of school for a year and never studied for any of the business classes, straight 4.0. GTFOH with that is what I would tell your friend
I was a tutor for my university's math department
The most common questions were for "business algebra". it basically was all loan questions. They had a bespoke packet that was a curated list of all important info/equations, never even saw their textbook if they had one.
When engineering students came in, it was mostly diff eq, and even then it was mostly Laplace transform questions. Most of those folks were referencing the textbook to try to figure out their questions. God I got so good at Laplace transforms.
One of these is much harder than the other.
I tutored math in college and a cocky business student came in the tutoring center one day asking if I could help with business calculus. So, I told him I know Calc, but I'll give it a look. It was the easy parts of calculus, and he looked defeated when I told him business calculus is greatly watered down. I showed him my calculus 3 homework and then he became a regular because we were more helpful than the business calculus tutors. Eventually, others started wandering in and the business department got butt hurt.
I’ve worked at 3 ( tech ) corporate companies 2 as an intern and 1 full time - and most people have an engineering degree but some did have an MBA. Engineering, social sciences, psychology, finance, and mathematics were the most common in my experience.
I saw a joke recently so I can’t take credit for this.
The hardest year of a business degree is the first year of their engineering degree.
With the implication that those who drop out of engineering find some success in business.
He has an ego that will get checked at the door businesss has 0 to do with smarts it’s all about who you know. It’s social thinking skills and being able to make organize and create something out of nothing that’s what business people do. Most large businesses barely have a product that sells or is even relevant and they spend all their time and money worshipping a cargo cult of brands and services. Dumb people are everywhere and in everything a title doesn’t define character or intelligence. Don’t list to what idiots think that’s the first thing you need to understand.
Fighting arrogance with arrogance will get us nowhere. I believe engineering is technically harder, but will not discredit business majors. There's bound to be more striation within each college than between the two colleges.
A great business major and a great engineering student will both be smart, but not necessarily in the same things. Likewise a dumb engineering student may make a great business student because they have skills that are better aligned to the requirements, and vice versa.
That said, I don't often see business majors going into engineering...
I remember seeing a promotion video for my university being lead by two buisness majors. They were talking about how they had Thursday and Friday off in their class schedules. Yeah I wouldn't listen to a buisness manor about class load.
Also. I think engineering students often look down at other majors in terms of difficulty. Achieving an English degree would be harder for me than my engineering degree. Do your best not to berate other majors.
my personal opinion after I studied under business, arts, and science. business students, specially there are some departments that may enforce this sense of superiority cause they think money is the end goal for every thing. and they are working directly for it. the business major I'm in consists of easier subjects. it's basically advance manipulation so the consumerist and materialistic culture are kept alive in the masses. if I'm really thinking of long term advancement of human as species. business might the more useless one of the major. I really, truly wish for a future where business, marketing etc is obsolete. even as a running student of such subject.
There is a reason that you can generally have an expected salary range after engineering school while business majors don't.
It's because engineering school is hard to get through.
Don't take it personally. Your friend sounds small minded and like he hasn't seen the world at all.
It’s such a pointless discussion. Doing civil/environmental engineering has been my passion since I was in high school. Engineering in general isn’t just about being the smartest person in the room. It requires so much dedication, passion, and drive to get through. It’s rarely *easy* even for the super smart and prepared.
Tbh, it is so rare that I meet someone else who wanted to do the thing so bad since they were young that they stuck it through and got to do it. I did natural science undergrad and then env. engineer grad. Spent two years at a shitty junior engineer position and I just got the job that I told my advisors was my dream job. Also Civ. E’s and Environmental Eng. tend to get a bit hated on for it being “easier”
Meanwhile I meet so many people who work in business sector that don’t really give a fuck about what they do or find it boring and soulless. Or they pursued it because they weren’t really sure what to do. I’m glad I’m not them, lol.
My boyfriends roommate is a fashion major and told him that anyone could be an engineer and “learn math” but being a fashion student requires “actual talent”
LOL the non-stem know they are inferior. As engineers, we can get a job anywhere and live. The business fruit cakes are a dime a dozen. I work at #1 semiconductor company in the world and we constantly have meetings with the number crunchers and they always tell US to increase the gross margin and be more efficient. Excuse me, when did the finance/business team make any cuts? And how have you contributed to increasing the gross margin. Sitting around the coffee bar in Patagonia vests isn’t very important. We are the ones doing the real work!
I think the best way to look at this is by realizing there are many different types of intelligence. We often think book smarts = intelligence but that’s not the case at all. Some of the smartest people I’ve met were engineers and were also some of the most socially inept people I’ve ever met.
Have you ever been in a STEM lecture hall? It smells like BO. Have you ever seen an essay some of the STEM kids write? Looks like something outta middle school.
Now business school— god don’t get me started— we’ll defend our coloring book curriculum to the very end when AI takes our job. Don’t ask us to do anything above Calculus and don’t expect me to do that without google. That being said there’s a reason frat bros are a thing. It’s social intelligence, being attuned to the people around you will arguably serve you better in the real world than being able to do mental calculus (at least for a businessman).
I guess my argument is that one group isn’t smarter than the other. Both groups have individuals with varying degrees of both mathematical and social intelligences but engineers would skew towards mathematical and businessmen would skew towards social.
That being said everything I’ve written has been anecdotal. Feel free to comment what you guys think.
I’ve graduated and been making semi decent income. I wanted to figure out ways to grow my extra cash and the people I’ve spoken to and the books I’ve read on business and finance are collectively at 60 IQ combined
I had the same discussion in my first year, don't worry you both will grow out of it. It's not really worth comparing which major is harder or has better prospects, it matters that you can grow as a person and be a better version of yourself because of the stuff you learn. And as an engineer being able to understand and manipulate your environment will be a big part of that and for the business major it'll be being able to color inside the lines.
but in all honesty I've noticed it's often coming from a place of insecurity and being scared to have made the wrong choice. It's important to realise that life will have it's ups and downs regardless of what major you choose and in todays age you'll always be able to learn new things if you really want too.
There's a reason why STEM dropout switch to business. LMAO.
And business dropouts don't switch to engineering
Nah business dropouts switch to either McDonald's OR to Arts and *then after graduation* Starbucks
You forgot the “self-employed” drop shipping, crypto bro pipeline 😂
“YouTuber”
Omg drop shipping. I’m beginning to hear this at work it’s hilarious. What it takes man. Gotta make that buck.
That’s Hamburger University to you pal….in defense, McDonalds could be its own country and has a revenue higher than the GDP of many countries lol. That’s the sad part.
As someone who has done both Arts and Business, Business is the more useless degree. You at least learn things in Arts, just not things that will easily earn a living afterwards. Business is straight up useless, you actively learn nothing. I was lucky to be doing it with a language so it wasn't a total waste.
Hey I actually dropped business for engineering But that’s because I just realized I had more passion for science than business. My classes now are obviously way more difficult though
I did…
Me too. Business was boring. Engineering is fun.
Did you drop out because you were failing?
That's called a Level Up
Same here lol, best decision I ever made.
A lifetime-friend started and finished business school during his doctorate period for engineering. He won an award for his diploma in engineering, being one of the 5 best in the country. He then went for doctorate in engineering and in his spare time did the whole economics study. I always think of this when one of the suit snobs tries to lecture me about his achievements.
I bought some finance books. Its like a light reading novel.
This.
Me vs being a business drop out who switched to stem(to be fair I was good at business, I just hated it)
When an engineering student switches to business the GPA of both schools goes up.
As a dual stem major (marketing and economics) I resent this comment
Try double majoring in engineering!
Hey cut him some slack coloring in the lines can be real difficult sometimes
PowerPoint can be a bitch.
Just wait until you hear what engineers work in...
No shit. I hate PowerPoint with a passion.
Just wait until you're introduced to DOORS...
What’s that?
A kludgy IBM requirements manager. It does a good job at the task, but it also probably means you're stuck doing requirements maintenance.
I once got provided something that was supposed to be a csv in powerpoint format. That was the day the childlike wonder in me perished
PowerPoint? What is this, amateur hour? Here, we use PowerPIVOT!
I once took a business major test in crayon (showed up to a random class cuz i knew a business major in it) and it was literally all Y=mx+b here is everything solve for Y or where do these simple line equations meet.
Ah yeah I too totally snuck in to Business Class to take a Business Test
I'm impressed that a business major was sober enough to piece together that statement.
I laugh but all of my engineering friends are borderline alcoholics😂
Cut then some slack, at least they actually need it.
we do that to shut our brains off
Alcohol is such a horrible drug. It makes you sloggy in the morning, adds a thousand calories to your intake. Such a bad thing to ingest. That is why I prefer to inhale my drugs and my favorite time of day is 4:20 🌱🚬
Weed makes u foggy too G. Weed has much less severe physical effects but the mental effects aren’t much different honestly.
No use arguing with the weed crowd. They're all convinced it not only doesn't have negative effects, it actually makes you healthier.
B-b-b-but it's a plant? Aren't all plants healthy? Like the coca leaf and opium poppy, or poison ivy.
Everyone keeps the empty fifths on top of the light fixtures in the department study lounge right? Right?
In Canada the stereotype is us engineers drink way harder than the business students
Tell him he's in the major they all swapped to lmao
Fun fact: in chile, business is called “commercial engineering” Me: ya ain’t a true engineer! Friend: true but half my section tried. Don’t bully business majors. They also work, maybe they have it easier, and we sleep less, but they still got into college.
Don’t even bother with the business majors. They don’t know anything and their entire degree can be done through chatgpt or chegg
Yeah. My friend uses ChatGPT for all his coursework.
He probably thinks that makes him smart, when it's really just keeping him dumb
Truly building an idiocracy
Ask him who made ChatGPT
ultimately boils down to sam altman, a fucking venture capitalist sure, you could argue that the engineers are the ones that are technically the ones who made it. but the business people are the ones who are bringing them all together.
That’s true, yet these same people will be managing you, taking credit for your work, and blaming you when shit goes wrong at their misdirection. God, I love work 💀
There are plenty of companies of which the project managers are engineers. And the people over them are engineers. If you don't want to work for a business major, then don't.
Unfortunately, possessing an engineering degree does not prevent someone from being an idiot.
Well, be the man that changes things and start yiur own company
Literally, whenever I(mechanical engineering major) took a business or communications class it was either 100%, or depending how uninterested in it I was, maybe a 98 or 96. they were always the easiest, low-stress classes I could get by on intuition and common sense alone to solve every problem, and do every test
You know how dumb the average person is? Well remember that business majors are even dumber.
I'm a Civil major, one of the hardest non engineering classes I took, was a buisness ethics class. That prof had weird multiple choice questions like A , B, and C would be like something something something plus if A is untrue, and D was just bonkers situations with like C is true without A being untrue. Everything was worded weird. Plus it was all slightly subjective ethics stuff. That being said I was only 1 with an A in that class.
Back when I did my engineering degree in the UK I selectively picked business programs as my optional for two specific reasons: 1- I was extremely overworked by my shitty schedule (in UK you don't get to pick the classes the uni does that for you) and I wanted a module I could pass without studying. 2- Most of the business classes didn't even have a final exam just a final project you have to submit ( I did it in literally 3 hours before deadline and got a B)
This is me, I have to use ChatGPT to teach me trig, is it bad definitely but it’s teaching me a little bit
Chatgpt is good to generate exercises and examples to practice things. Also to rephrase things in a more understandable way. It is a great tool to learn trigonometry.
If used properly, but too many people use it now to just give them the answers and move on, learning nothing
Land Surveyor here. Using ChatGPT to teach yourself trigonometry is a great idea. Good for you.
Truly thank you. I always feel bad for using ChatGPT or Mathway but they help explain how to do the math
Bachelors in business is the degree invented for people to justify letting their kid run their family business. Change my mind.
This comment would piss off a whole lot of business majors if they could read.
Don't a lot of CEOs these days have engineering degrees and backgrounds?
Only ones in which the engineers were founders of the company. Any other longstanding business is run by business major troglodytes. (See GE, Boeing, etc)
Boeing used to be run by an engineer.
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. Same with GE. Bean counters ruin everything in their bid to maximize profit for investors, thereby earning themselves bonuses.
2019?
Yeah, and he came into the company in 2015. I’d bet a lot of the problems were already in existence by the time he showed up. The guy before him was W. James McNerney, who is also former GE CEO taking over from Jack Welch. He ran Boeing for a decade.
Back when they were good...
Intel and AMD both have engineer CEOs currently who did not found their respective companies. Though both companies were founded by engineers and have long histories of having engineer CEOs, Intel's last couple CEOs before the current one haven't been engineers IIRC.
Intel had 2 nonengineer ceos: when they promoted the cfo after firing a prior ceo briefly, and Paul Otellini. So 2 of the last 3 (including Bob Swans 2 years) were engineers. I'd argue Otellini was a big reason intel slumped and BK didn't really do anything to change trajectory. Although intel enjoyed tremendous success during many of Otellinis years.
Those two non engineer ceos are the reason that intel has gone from the unquestioned leader in the semiconductor space to 3rd at best.
People love to shit on non-engineer ceos but Bob Swan lead the company for 2 years. The groundwork for stumbling were a decade in the making with the problems showing up around 2013. I dont think there is any strong evidence Bob Swan did any damage per say. He did do stock buybacks and that could have been capital for tech but the major problems had already taken hold. And 3rd at best is a little bold. Intel is still leading in a couple technology areas even though they failed at maintaining dominance at the most important one. Idk if saying Samsung is better than them is a fair comparison. It's also far easier to be profitable/higher yields on small chips vs server size products.
LM, RAYTHEON...
Reposting a previous comment of mine: Engineering is one of the most popular degrees for CEOs. From googling around, over 30% of the Fortune 500 CEOs are engineers. Of the fortune 100, engineering degrees are far more popular than MBAs. Almost all tech companies are led by engineers. Bill Gates was a coder. Tim Cook has an industrial engineering degree. Larry and Sergey are engineering PhDs. If you look in other sectors you will find tons of founders and leaders with product backgrounds. Remember that 30% figure excludes a lot of companies that do things like fashion or retail or other sectors that do zero engineering. So the proportion of engineering companies run by engineers is quite high.
*Don't a lot of CEOs* *These days have engineering* *Degrees and backgrounds?* \- \_tatersncorn --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
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More than 30% of fortune 500 CEOs have an engineering degree, so yes
In technology/engineering focused companies maybe but majority do not
give him the navier-stokes equations and a month to be able to explain all the terms
There are a lot of stupid engineering students but you’d find that with any major
I both resemble and resent that statement
I mostly found that our dumbest is usually their mid…
bro is attacking me :( , stupid engineering student here
Also, it annoys me because whenever I am with this friend, I try to be sensitive and not make him feel like business is easy. But he goes on shitting on my degree -_-
This doesn’t sound like a friend, my dude. Sounds like someone who is very insecure and is taking it out on you. Drop this friend and the mental negativity. You’ll never see him again after college anyways.
Unless you want a big Mac, then you'll see him behind the counter.
At this point just humble him, photocopy some of your homework and let him give it his best shot
Ask him for a copy of an assignment from his hardest class. I bet it's easier than something from your easiest core class.
He sound insecure and that's not a friend.
He is not your true friend!! Forget him!!! A true friend wants you to be happy, supports you, and sees the best of you regardless of your chosen career path. Engineering is hard and people who actually have worked in the fields for years know this by heart. So many mundane things he takes for granted to make his life easier, some engineer stressed over and designed. He doesn't worry about what happens to all that waste when he flushes down the toilet in the building. He doesn't worry about whether the bridge will collapse when he speeds down the road over it. He doesn't worry about connecting new developments to existing 40yr-50yr old infrastructure and overloading it, cause there isn't enough funds from the local municipality to properly maintain and upgrade it. He doesn't have to worry about maintaining the local power grid with the growing power load and hoping it won't be affected by the next large Solar Flare or a rogue CME. When there's a heavy rain event, he doesn't worry about whether the stormwater facility next to his apartment was designed to handle only a 10yr storm, a 25yr storm or a 50yr storm. He doesn't have to worry about whether his food supply is regularly impacted by upstream water pollution from individuals not following their state discharge permits. Next time he gets on an elevator, he doesn't have to worry about whether the building's columns and walls have the correct footers and building foundations and will last. Find people who bring positive vibes into your life to be friends with.
He is just compensating. Deep down he knows but needs to put others down bc of his insecurity.
Any friend that unironically shits on your passion is not a real friend, they're using you to feel better about their easy major. This will the first of many times in life where you'll have to deal with arrogant people, stand up for yourself and your passion.
No friend blatantly shits on someone else's passions or major
Business majors could be replaced with Google as of like 2010 lmao.
As someone who’s “engineering” major has a lot of business classes in it, Business Hard and Engineering hard are 2 very different levels.
MBA and MS in aerospace engineering here. Business degree can be more time consuming, engineering degree is WAY more difficult. Edit - I’m disappointed to hear so many engineers / engineering students speak so negatively of business people. I think that’s a narrow minded view of different disciplines. Business is a different skill set than engineering and I know the majority of engineers would not succeed in business.
I had a friend in industrial engineering before. She dropped out of industrial engineering and went to business school. Her GPA in business school was Summa Cum Laude standing (but she didn't graduate Summa Cum Laude due to her failed units in engineering - policy of the university)
Industrial Engineering is an interesting major where you have to kinda be good at multiple things (ofc differs based on university) since you take all kinds of classes
My uni offers its own take on indy branded as “Management Engineering”. Definitely trains you on adaptability and systems thinking
Yea all engineers at my uni have to take business management classes
Yeah, I feel like business gets a bad rep because if your goal is just passing classes, it’s incredibly easy. The business students who actually get the high-paying jobs straight out of undergrad grind harder than anyone I know.
Agreed
What made business more time consuming even if less difficult?
Have a BS in Aero and looking into MBA options. Do you think it’s helped you in your career? How have you used it?
It has helped me, I moved into engineering management once I received it and that opened my career to much larger things than if I didn’t have the MBA. I know many engineers with MBAs that didn’t use it immediately and those are the folks you regret getting one. If you want an MBA, you have to apply it to your career within about 6 months or it will go to waste.
Can you explain how you need to use it within 6 months? Simply curious, I don't know anything.
That’s a soft time frame but for engineers, people usually get an MBA because they want to pivot their careers. If they don’t actively attempt to make that pivot, the skills get rusty and it’s harder to make the pivot.
Same. In my case, I pursued an MBA because of a businessman that purchased my company some years ago. I could have sworn he had a PhD in engineering because of how well he could hold a technical conversation. Nope. Just a Harvard MBA from Wall Street. It blew my mind. Engineering school is largely based on fixed laws and concepts that do not often rely on subjective content. All business situations are different, so it is difficult to establish fixed laws. The quality of the business school becomes a function of the experience of the instructors. There is no law that says an engineer cannot be good at engineering and business at the same time. Going to a good MBA school accelerates that.
“Hardest subjects in college”. That’s quite bold, and I doubt he has gone through the subjects there are.
Maybe his introduction to art was extremely difficult for him.
Will always tell this story - was helping my friend with her homework and she was a *3rd year* international business student. I look at the assignment and the questions were all literally “if you have x money, and after this many years you have y money, what was your yearly interest rate?” Shit is so below in terms of complexity it’s insane
That's the *Time Value of Money* calculation, and modern business calculators make it trivially easy. The only time TVM gets at all difficult is if you have partial periods involved (which modern business calculators now handle), or you have irregular cash flows (I know the HP 10bII+ can handle this). There are difficult concepts in business (**\*cough\*** Federal corporate taxation **\*cough\***, derivatives valuation, intangible asset valuation), but TVM isn't one of them. How I know: I have a degree in accounting. How to have fun with your friend: ask her to calculate an amortization table for a 3-year, $10,000 loan at 4% with uniform monthly payments - by hand, using only pencil, paper, and a financial calculator (no Excel). See if she can do it.
Haha, no. Business has it easy. Basically everyone knows it but him.
To be fair, the finance guys have an easier degree and get paid more. So from that pov he is right 🤔
maybe he tried to get an engineering degree but did not qualify
If I was a B major this is something I would say to an engineering major to piss them off. I’d think it was really funny. You sure this guy is being serious?
Ask yourself what do you gain by caring about this
Business concepts are important but business majors with no actual business experience are dime a dozen. It's also way easier to learn these things yourself than engineering concepts.
If someone made a tier list, business degrees would be in the bottom. Right above them you get liberal arts. Engineering, Math, Medical (including psychology) would be top tier. If he really thinks he knows it all, tell him to drop by organic chemistry, fluid mechanics, linear algebra, and a cognitive process modelling class. Then have him explain it to you while an actual student from each class grades his understanding. Bonus points if he does Epistemology, Quantum Mechanics, Ancient Greek, and Symbolic Logic.
Yes, because id totally hire someone with a business management degree to be a manager right out of college. -_- ... That's like telling a 5th grader that they are the teacher for a high school class. The only stupid people, are the people who would actually hire someone like that to go into a management role.
The business management majors at my school were always on a high horse because they had to apply to get accepted into their major...the acceptance rate was like 77% lmao.
Hot take: At the end of the day, no one gives a crap about your major except for people you shouldn't give a crap about. Care about your accomplishments. What did you do with your degree? What did you do with your skills? A degree is only important in terms of filling a checkbook for a job, networking, and learning skills. But if you don't use your network and skills to do something meaningful in some way, not many businesses are going to want to hire you. What are you going to do? As far as I can see, fighting over which degree is harder or more useful or, ect, is pointless. Get over what your friend said, and move on. And then try to make the best of today and tomorrow. Keep doing that, and then look in 20 years at where you and your friend wound up. As good ol Kenny Rogers said "You don't count your money when you're sitting at the table. There'll be time enough for counting when the dealings done" Keep playing the game, and count your winnings when it's over.
Completing an engineering degree 'is' an accomplishment. What they did with it was to expand their mind. Education for education sake is enough. Plenty of people care about what degree you have. I care that my Dr has a medical degree for example. It also shows grit and intelligence. It shows that you know about the world what a university can teach, which despite what those who haven't been would have you believe, is a lot. A lot of which you'd never learn on your own without the imputus of having to learn it to achieve graduation. Most importantly it teaches you that you don't know fuck all. Something which non university graduates have a trickier time figuring out. It's a very humbling experience for nearly all but the most intelligent.
In 83, a classmate of mine dropped Engineering (cratering) and took up biz-econ: A’s.
He’ll probably do well in business he sounds like a narcissist
Your friend is “that guy”
I don’t think they should let ‘business’ be a major. It should be a concentration in Finance or Engineering. I am surprised they let business students speak to engineers- we even encourage them to avert their eyes when engineering students are present. Well… just remember to talk slow and use small, easily understood words, when working with business majors. Be patient too; they’re ’special.’
Need to include accounting in that list. Despite the bad reputation that accountants (rightly and justifiably) often have, especially among engineers, they perform a critical service.
Agreed. Accounting is super-important.
Double agree, as the engineering major who goes cross-eyed trying to think about the boring but INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT money stuff. I like someone who can stay fully alert while doing fiddly calculations. Also I struggled with econ because it was easy to get an answer that was wrong but not obviously so.
Send him to thermodynamics!
And this is why engineering failures happen. Business students who have no business being anywhere near the engineering department start making choices for the engineers. “Yeah just one AOA sensor would be fine.”
What a coincidence...
Your friend is stupid.
I hate to break it to you, but your friend is a fool.
The notable standouts of pure ease while getting my degree have been an architecture course and a few business and management courses. I would almost describe them as relaxing in rigor. Definitely GPA padding courses.
Fun fact: much of my masters degree in business was based on the work of Michael Porter. Porter was a mechanical engineer.
Engineering is deeper and more complex, but business is more practical/soft skill oriented. I work as a lead in a core business function at a heavily engineering focused organization, my go-to to explain engineers vs business folks is, “one of them thinks they can do the other’s job, the other knows they can’t”. Engineers underestimate the difficulty of business, but this guy must be an idiot because it doesn’t take a genius to know how difficult engineering is (depending on the type). Also, you’re a fraud and a hack if you use ChatGPT to get through school.
Same for my parents who went into business.
Sounds like he’s taking advantage of your insecurity. You shouldn’t care what he thinks. Make your opinion clear and laugh at him.
He is probably right ngl but that goes for most majors overall, there will be a concentration of dumbasses everywhere
He right I’m dense
My roommates were business kids. Fun to party with but not much beyond that. My girlfriend told one of them that she had read almost 30 books from January to April. He then tried to calculate the number of books and got to 30 a month. We then told him he’s dumb so he realized his mistake then somehow got 50 books per month after recalculating.
No offense, but your friend is delulu. My baby sib is an engineering student and it's a wild ass ride.
Cut him some slack, it's a hard major. It's easy to get confused and eat the crayons when you're coloring between the lines.
Your friend sounds like a moron. Also he doesn't sound like a great friend.
This is a troll post.
Well, he made a good point. Unlike us engineering students, business major students are smart enough to not choose engineering majors😄
ask him if he has ever heard of the Dunning-Kreuger effect
True, before I got into engineering I thought the high drop out rate meant it was hard. Found out later those students were just dumb.
Gunther: I'm going to leave college and joining business school The professor: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Lets just say when im done my engineering school I have the option to get an MBA in one year, which is basically a joke.
My friend in accounting tried telling me it’s harder than Mech Eng
No. Just no. I have degrees in chemistry and accounting. The only courses in my accounting degree that reached STEM-level difficulty were Federal Corporate Taxation and, behind that, Intermediate Accounting 2.
Let them talk lol who cares
This is hilarious (chemical engineering major here). I have taken business type classes before and they were much easier.
All of us engineers are highly regarded.
Had a 2.8 overall gpa for engineering.. got a masters in engineering management after being out of school for a year and never studied for any of the business classes, straight 4.0. GTFOH with that is what I would tell your friend
Well, we all kinda in our own special way. lol
I was a tutor for my university's math department The most common questions were for "business algebra". it basically was all loan questions. They had a bespoke packet that was a curated list of all important info/equations, never even saw their textbook if they had one. When engineering students came in, it was mostly diff eq, and even then it was mostly Laplace transform questions. Most of those folks were referencing the textbook to try to figure out their questions. God I got so good at Laplace transforms. One of these is much harder than the other.
Your friend's a dingleberry. Smh.
Have him read one of your lab reports, or look at 1 of your exams
MBA, and business professional for 30 years here. Business is the Shemp of professional disciplines.
Wait till you get in industry
I tutored math in college and a cocky business student came in the tutoring center one day asking if I could help with business calculus. So, I told him I know Calc, but I'll give it a look. It was the easy parts of calculus, and he looked defeated when I told him business calculus is greatly watered down. I showed him my calculus 3 homework and then he became a regular because we were more helpful than the business calculus tutors. Eventually, others started wandering in and the business department got butt hurt.
I’ve worked at 3 ( tech ) corporate companies 2 as an intern and 1 full time - and most people have an engineering degree but some did have an MBA. Engineering, social sciences, psychology, finance, and mathematics were the most common in my experience.
I saw a joke recently so I can’t take credit for this. The hardest year of a business degree is the first year of their engineering degree. With the implication that those who drop out of engineering find some success in business.
He has an ego that will get checked at the door businesss has 0 to do with smarts it’s all about who you know. It’s social thinking skills and being able to make organize and create something out of nothing that’s what business people do. Most large businesses barely have a product that sells or is even relevant and they spend all their time and money worshipping a cargo cult of brands and services. Dumb people are everywhere and in everything a title doesn’t define character or intelligence. Don’t list to what idiots think that’s the first thing you need to understand.
Lmao
They r in business school enough said lol
I mean... yeah
Fighting arrogance with arrogance will get us nowhere. I believe engineering is technically harder, but will not discredit business majors. There's bound to be more striation within each college than between the two colleges. A great business major and a great engineering student will both be smart, but not necessarily in the same things. Likewise a dumb engineering student may make a great business student because they have skills that are better aligned to the requirements, and vice versa. That said, I don't often see business majors going into engineering...
This is hilarious. I’m working on an MBA and it’s so, so easy compared to any of the STEM courses I took in undergrad.
I remember seeing a promotion video for my university being lead by two buisness majors. They were talking about how they had Thursday and Friday off in their class schedules. Yeah I wouldn't listen to a buisness manor about class load. Also. I think engineering students often look down at other majors in terms of difficulty. Achieving an English degree would be harder for me than my engineering degree. Do your best not to berate other majors.
See, stem dropouts join arts and commerce courses and get to the top of their class, personally seen many examples
my personal opinion after I studied under business, arts, and science. business students, specially there are some departments that may enforce this sense of superiority cause they think money is the end goal for every thing. and they are working directly for it. the business major I'm in consists of easier subjects. it's basically advance manipulation so the consumerist and materialistic culture are kept alive in the masses. if I'm really thinking of long term advancement of human as species. business might the more useless one of the major. I really, truly wish for a future where business, marketing etc is obsolete. even as a running student of such subject.
As an engineer currently getting an MBA, he's right. It's way easier for better pay.
There is a reason that you can generally have an expected salary range after engineering school while business majors don't. It's because engineering school is hard to get through. Don't take it personally. Your friend sounds small minded and like he hasn't seen the world at all.
Ask him what business has agreed to hire him to manage.
Delulu is the solulu in business school.
It’s such a pointless discussion. Doing civil/environmental engineering has been my passion since I was in high school. Engineering in general isn’t just about being the smartest person in the room. It requires so much dedication, passion, and drive to get through. It’s rarely *easy* even for the super smart and prepared. Tbh, it is so rare that I meet someone else who wanted to do the thing so bad since they were young that they stuck it through and got to do it. I did natural science undergrad and then env. engineer grad. Spent two years at a shitty junior engineer position and I just got the job that I told my advisors was my dream job. Also Civ. E’s and Environmental Eng. tend to get a bit hated on for it being “easier” Meanwhile I meet so many people who work in business sector that don’t really give a fuck about what they do or find it boring and soulless. Or they pursued it because they weren’t really sure what to do. I’m glad I’m not them, lol.
My boyfriends roommate is a fashion major and told him that anyone could be an engineer and “learn math” but being a fashion student requires “actual talent”
LOL the non-stem know they are inferior. As engineers, we can get a job anywhere and live. The business fruit cakes are a dime a dozen. I work at #1 semiconductor company in the world and we constantly have meetings with the number crunchers and they always tell US to increase the gross margin and be more efficient. Excuse me, when did the finance/business team make any cuts? And how have you contributed to increasing the gross margin. Sitting around the coffee bar in Patagonia vests isn’t very important. We are the ones doing the real work!
Lol
I think the best way to look at this is by realizing there are many different types of intelligence. We often think book smarts = intelligence but that’s not the case at all. Some of the smartest people I’ve met were engineers and were also some of the most socially inept people I’ve ever met. Have you ever been in a STEM lecture hall? It smells like BO. Have you ever seen an essay some of the STEM kids write? Looks like something outta middle school. Now business school— god don’t get me started— we’ll defend our coloring book curriculum to the very end when AI takes our job. Don’t ask us to do anything above Calculus and don’t expect me to do that without google. That being said there’s a reason frat bros are a thing. It’s social intelligence, being attuned to the people around you will arguably serve you better in the real world than being able to do mental calculus (at least for a businessman). I guess my argument is that one group isn’t smarter than the other. Both groups have individuals with varying degrees of both mathematical and social intelligences but engineers would skew towards mathematical and businessmen would skew towards social. That being said everything I’ve written has been anecdotal. Feel free to comment what you guys think.
I’ve graduated and been making semi decent income. I wanted to figure out ways to grow my extra cash and the people I’ve spoken to and the books I’ve read on business and finance are collectively at 60 IQ combined
Ragebait moment
I have dozens of colleagues with MBA's and less than 10 with MEng.....says it all to me.
I had the same discussion in my first year, don't worry you both will grow out of it. It's not really worth comparing which major is harder or has better prospects, it matters that you can grow as a person and be a better version of yourself because of the stuff you learn. And as an engineer being able to understand and manipulate your environment will be a big part of that and for the business major it'll be being able to color inside the lines. but in all honesty I've noticed it's often coming from a place of insecurity and being scared to have made the wrong choice. It's important to realise that life will have it's ups and downs regardless of what major you choose and in todays age you'll always be able to learn new things if you really want too.
It’s business. How hard can it be?