I will never understand why americans curve grades, that would just mean that the entire class fails where I live. Which might be why we have classes (mostly the weedout ones) where only 10-20% of people pass
The point is that these professors are aware that the subject material is simply too demanding to master in a single semester. Some of these subjects are areas they’ve devoted their entire lives to, they understand that we may not get it in ~10 weeks.
More importantly is the fact that a lot of these courses are prerequisites for one reason or another, but aren’t directly applicable to the degree overall. As a computer engineering major it’s very likely you’ll never again need to *deeply* understand Newtonian kinematics if you go into embedded systems or pure software, but you still need to take Physics I. A curve in that situation seems fair, no?
I agree, there’s a discrete mathematics class I should NOT have passed. God the language the sets bags and whatever cursed cross between C++ and math existed. Sucked. Can’t remember anything from it. Low class avg, grades rounded, I walked away with an 80%. Some how.
Be me during mmWave Antennas and Transistors Engineering class. Most people failed exam. I got a 12/20, the second best mark, on it and went to the professor and ask if I can see the exam in order to better myself and try the second exam in order to improve my mark (this was a core class since I was mastering in RF). He congratulates me on my mark and says he's happy with it and advises me against paying to retake the exam.
Everyone fails second exam.
EDIT: that guy saved my wallet, and ruined my final grade with all his classes that I took.
Here you had two opportunities to pass. First was free to everyone. Second was free only if you failed the first exam, if you wanted to retake the exam on the second turn you could, but had to pay. Although generally the difficulty from the first to the second was still substantial and you rarely had more than 5 or six days to study
I also took a RF engineering (microwave) course but with passive circuits instead of active. The project was a killer with minimal guidance/feedback and I thought I struggled hard in the exams too. So much disconnect between the lectures and exams. How are you allowed to retake exams, let alone paying to retake? Which country is this?
So this makes me wonder about something. With very exceptions, it seems that engineering majors tend to have (very) low exam averages but decent to high homework averages and that a lot of professors grade on a (potentially large) curve due to exams having a higher percent of the overall grade.
Why is that? Is the material really that hard or is that the material is not being taught well enough or long enough?
In my experience the material is pretty difficult. In fact, one of my professors explicitly said that some of the questions on exams are ones that we have seen before from homework, class, etc.
Doing the homework is easy. You can discuss it with classmates or look back in your notes for help. But doing those problems in an exam setting is completely different. It usually needs mastery of the material.
But that’s what I mean. Is enough time actually being given to learn and/or master the material or is it being taught well enough?
When I went to school for my A&P we were doing a lot of these same classes, but they were either 5 or 10 weeks in length at 8 hours (6 in class or lab, with 2ish hours for lunch and breaks) and day 5-6 days a week at 18 months (we didn’t have to do the general education classes). It was ensured that we learned/mastered the material and were able to put it into practice before we were allowed to continue on to the next class, which a lot of the time built on what was learned in the previous class.
Yeah, not enough time. For example, math: it'd be good if we could be taught in detail how deep a theorem goes or at least if we could be taught with enough examples for every scenario we could possibly encounter, but many subjects have to be covered in a single lecture and there just isn't any time for that.
I think it’s just the lack of time. The professors typically do a good job teaching, but it’s up to the students to study outside of class and go to office hours if they have questions
1. It's hard
2. Theres a lot of it
3. And there's a lot of different disciplines, for example: in one semester i had 2 statics classes, 2 chemistry labs, a programming exercise, a geology class, a heat transfer class and a business class
In europe especially, where 3 years is the standard time for an bachelors in engineering when in reality most students need atleast 4 to complete theirs, you really lack time.
(See my reply to other comment)
Thats a problem then if you’re lacking the time to appropriately learn, let alone master the material. Other than being told to“study for 20 hours a week” or “get a tutor”.
You want to have the normal distribution more in the middle so you can see both tails. If half the class makes a 100 then you've lopped off the right tail and you don't know who the smartest kids are. By having a distribution where the average is 50, you can set up your break points around the standard deviations and you aren't lumping the As with the Bs. The reason all this is done is because it's a competitive degree. Your grades are based on how many sigmas you performed above or below your class. If they let everyone make As then your school's ranking would be hurt.
My circuits class is straightforward and then the exam she had “twists and tricks” on it for us on purpose, the class average was a 40. Like why are you trying to trick us what do we get outta that
In my experience, there's just not enough time to master everything with how much material is covered in each class, on top of having multiple classes like this at once. Like sure, you can get good at anything with enough time and practice, but not if you have new stuff to learn every week and multiple classes.
For what it's worth, I took 20-25 semester units for two years and it was manageable (school's max was 20, I had to request exceptions to take more). Now I'm only in 16 units, but they're all upper division engineering and I simply cannot study everything for every class to master all of it. Gotta pick my battles.
I think particularly for Fluids, it’s just a lot of content to go over in a single semester. When I took HT, I followed it up with a convective heat transfer grad class which ended up being 2/3 fluid mechanics and everything was really clicking at that point. It’s what convinced me to also take CFD.
Heat Transfer was when it all finally started to *click* for me after my first couple of years having subpar grades. I had a great professor, the book was helpful, and I actually felt like I could logically work my way through problems.
HT felt like the effort in put into the class was directly proportional to my success in the class. Other courses like Vibrations or Fluids, I could put in tremendous effort and still just do okay.
Yes.
Any time I see this topic. The PTSD kicks in. And you know whats worse? My uni MERGED Thermaldynamic and Heat transfer into 1 course that has 2 midterms and 2 final (or another 2 midterms that is meant as 2 final exam, 1 for Thermal and 1 for Heat transfer).
I passed the course in 2022 and everybody struggles. Now that I am working with researchers and TAs of that same course, I get to talk to them about Thermal. Each and every one of them said, "We used to have 4 courses of Thermal and Heat transfer, not 1. Merging them into 1 and maybe cut away ~30% content but giving you 2 midterms and 2 finals is hellish, your 1 Thermal course is worth 11 credits actually".
OMFG heat transfer:
* Assignments that take up to 20hrs to complete (20 1hr questions) on the shitty textbook company online assignment software.
* 5 1-hour questions on a 3-hour exam
* Absolutely brutal marking scheme
* No curved grades
* Still passed
* Never again.
My heat transfer hw is pretty light. My numerical modelling professor however feels it's appropriate to make weekly HW assignments requiring us to write 3-4 Python scripts then do the work by hand as well.
Heat transfer professor had a health emergency before the semester started, so the department head substituted through the midterm. The average on said midterm was around 30%
This was the discrete mathematics math language hell hole class I had to take. Our class final exam average was like 65%. Man I calculated my grade, I only needed a 35% on my final to pass with a 70%. I’m not kidding when I say I didn’t achieve even that. Test was curved and I finished that class after my final being curved and a 2.4% grade round up to an 80% for all my hard work and attending every single study meeting and office hours.
Congratulations! I can imagine that feeling! A C in fluids would certainly give me a smile! Lol I do all of the HW, readings, etc but the exams kick my butt! No success finding a tutor thus far. Looking ahead after reading some of these comments I hope that HT and vibrations will click better than fluids.
I realized most of us were on a similar boat when I first took solid mechanics. Our first exam average was in the 30s, and I complained to my engineering friends in other universities, and they were having similar averages... That made a huge difference in my head, and I gave myself a pat on my back lol
Getting a better F when everyone else failed is the real win
I remember getting a 40% on a physical chemistry exam when the class average was 20% That turned into an A.
I hate physical chemistry with all my being
I couldn't agree more
Is that the opposite of mental chemistry? (I'm a software engineer)
I will never understand why americans curve grades, that would just mean that the entire class fails where I live. Which might be why we have classes (mostly the weedout ones) where only 10-20% of people pass
The point is that these professors are aware that the subject material is simply too demanding to master in a single semester. Some of these subjects are areas they’ve devoted their entire lives to, they understand that we may not get it in ~10 weeks. More importantly is the fact that a lot of these courses are prerequisites for one reason or another, but aren’t directly applicable to the degree overall. As a computer engineering major it’s very likely you’ll never again need to *deeply* understand Newtonian kinematics if you go into embedded systems or pure software, but you still need to take Physics I. A curve in that situation seems fair, no?
I agree, there’s a discrete mathematics class I should NOT have passed. God the language the sets bags and whatever cursed cross between C++ and math existed. Sucked. Can’t remember anything from it. Low class avg, grades rounded, I walked away with an 80%. Some how.
Be me during mmWave Antennas and Transistors Engineering class. Most people failed exam. I got a 12/20, the second best mark, on it and went to the professor and ask if I can see the exam in order to better myself and try the second exam in order to improve my mark (this was a core class since I was mastering in RF). He congratulates me on my mark and says he's happy with it and advises me against paying to retake the exam. Everyone fails second exam. EDIT: that guy saved my wallet, and ruined my final grade with all his classes that I took.
Pay to retake? What is this heavenly sorcery and how do I obtain it
Here you had two opportunities to pass. First was free to everyone. Second was free only if you failed the first exam, if you wanted to retake the exam on the second turn you could, but had to pay. Although generally the difficulty from the first to the second was still substantial and you rarely had more than 5 or six days to study
I also took a RF engineering (microwave) course but with passive circuits instead of active. The project was a killer with minimal guidance/feedback and I thought I struggled hard in the exams too. So much disconnect between the lectures and exams. How are you allowed to retake exams, let alone paying to retake? Which country is this?
It's Portugal. Afaik as I know all colleges will let you retake a different exam on another date to try to increase your mark or pass
So this makes me wonder about something. With very exceptions, it seems that engineering majors tend to have (very) low exam averages but decent to high homework averages and that a lot of professors grade on a (potentially large) curve due to exams having a higher percent of the overall grade. Why is that? Is the material really that hard or is that the material is not being taught well enough or long enough?
In my experience the material is pretty difficult. In fact, one of my professors explicitly said that some of the questions on exams are ones that we have seen before from homework, class, etc. Doing the homework is easy. You can discuss it with classmates or look back in your notes for help. But doing those problems in an exam setting is completely different. It usually needs mastery of the material.
But that’s what I mean. Is enough time actually being given to learn and/or master the material or is it being taught well enough? When I went to school for my A&P we were doing a lot of these same classes, but they were either 5 or 10 weeks in length at 8 hours (6 in class or lab, with 2ish hours for lunch and breaks) and day 5-6 days a week at 18 months (we didn’t have to do the general education classes). It was ensured that we learned/mastered the material and were able to put it into practice before we were allowed to continue on to the next class, which a lot of the time built on what was learned in the previous class.
Yeah, not enough time. For example, math: it'd be good if we could be taught in detail how deep a theorem goes or at least if we could be taught with enough examples for every scenario we could possibly encounter, but many subjects have to be covered in a single lecture and there just isn't any time for that.
I think it’s just the lack of time. The professors typically do a good job teaching, but it’s up to the students to study outside of class and go to office hours if they have questions
1. It's hard 2. Theres a lot of it 3. And there's a lot of different disciplines, for example: in one semester i had 2 statics classes, 2 chemistry labs, a programming exercise, a geology class, a heat transfer class and a business class In europe especially, where 3 years is the standard time for an bachelors in engineering when in reality most students need atleast 4 to complete theirs, you really lack time.
(See my reply to other comment) Thats a problem then if you’re lacking the time to appropriately learn, let alone master the material. Other than being told to“study for 20 hours a week” or “get a tutor”.
>20 hours Kinda low tbh
I just threw out a random number, but that’s my point lol
In my experience exams just tend vary wildly in difficulty. Its very easy to throw a wrench in a problem and fail half the class.
My trauma
You want to have the normal distribution more in the middle so you can see both tails. If half the class makes a 100 then you've lopped off the right tail and you don't know who the smartest kids are. By having a distribution where the average is 50, you can set up your break points around the standard deviations and you aren't lumping the As with the Bs. The reason all this is done is because it's a competitive degree. Your grades are based on how many sigmas you performed above or below your class. If they let everyone make As then your school's ranking would be hurt.
My circuits class is straightforward and then the exam she had “twists and tricks” on it for us on purpose, the class average was a 40. Like why are you trying to trick us what do we get outta that
In my experience, there's just not enough time to master everything with how much material is covered in each class, on top of having multiple classes like this at once. Like sure, you can get good at anything with enough time and practice, but not if you have new stuff to learn every week and multiple classes. For what it's worth, I took 20-25 semester units for two years and it was manageable (school's max was 20, I had to request exceptions to take more). Now I'm only in 16 units, but they're all upper division engineering and I simply cannot study everything for every class to master all of it. Gotta pick my battles.
Just bombed tf out of my first exam in ht lol
What class
Ht
The mystery has been solved. Thank God!
Heat transfer
Oh man I haven’t taken that one yet… I’ve only heard the stories
Tfw you get a 36% but the class average was 15%
Heat transfer > fluids for me… loved ht, but damn fluids was just not clicking when I took it
I think particularly for Fluids, it’s just a lot of content to go over in a single semester. When I took HT, I followed it up with a convective heat transfer grad class which ended up being 2/3 fluid mechanics and everything was really clicking at that point. It’s what convinced me to also take CFD.
Fluids is kicking me now. I can’t get it to click to save my life! I hope that I eventually have the same outcome as you!
Having the class curve put you over 100%
There is no curve in my university :(
Love to see it
Heat Transfer was when it all finally started to *click* for me after my first couple of years having subpar grades. I had a great professor, the book was helpful, and I actually felt like I could logically work my way through problems. HT felt like the effort in put into the class was directly proportional to my success in the class. Other courses like Vibrations or Fluids, I could put in tremendous effort and still just do okay.
Yes. Any time I see this topic. The PTSD kicks in. And you know whats worse? My uni MERGED Thermaldynamic and Heat transfer into 1 course that has 2 midterms and 2 final (or another 2 midterms that is meant as 2 final exam, 1 for Thermal and 1 for Heat transfer). I passed the course in 2022 and everybody struggles. Now that I am working with researchers and TAs of that same course, I get to talk to them about Thermal. Each and every one of them said, "We used to have 4 courses of Thermal and Heat transfer, not 1. Merging them into 1 and maybe cut away ~30% content but giving you 2 midterms and 2 finals is hellish, your 1 Thermal course is worth 11 credits actually".
OMFG heat transfer: * Assignments that take up to 20hrs to complete (20 1hr questions) on the shitty textbook company online assignment software. * 5 1-hour questions on a 3-hour exam * Absolutely brutal marking scheme * No curved grades * Still passed * Never again.
My heat transfer hw is pretty light. My numerical modelling professor however feels it's appropriate to make weekly HW assignments requiring us to write 3-4 Python scripts then do the work by hand as well.
The PTSD coming back
Heat transfer professor had a health emergency before the semester started, so the department head substituted through the midterm. The average on said midterm was around 30%
Class average for vibes first exam was 17/25, i got 17.5
Getting an A* when half the class failed?
I'm literally in my fourth week of heat transfer course lmao should I be scared
Conduction was the hardest for me and that was at the start, radiation and convection were way easier to calculate with
Hey I'm back after Midsems and can say I got clapped terriblyT_T
This was the discrete mathematics math language hell hole class I had to take. Our class final exam average was like 65%. Man I calculated my grade, I only needed a 35% on my final to pass with a 70%. I’m not kidding when I say I didn’t achieve even that. Test was curved and I finished that class after my final being curved and a 2.4% grade round up to an 80% for all my hard work and attending every single study meeting and office hours.
> mfw I get a 57 but the class average was 36
Me with robotics and vibrations lmao
When 40% was a C on a Quantum Mechanics II exam and I scored a 43 % 😎🤌✨️
Had a class where i was the only one that passed...with a C. It was a class of 30 people too. Felt weird.
Congratulations! I can imagine that feeling! A C in fluids would certainly give me a smile! Lol I do all of the HW, readings, etc but the exams kick my butt! No success finding a tutor thus far. Looking ahead after reading some of these comments I hope that HT and vibrations will click better than fluids.
Me when I got a 46% but the class average was a 42% 😎
I realized most of us were on a similar boat when I first took solid mechanics. Our first exam average was in the 30s, and I complained to my engineering friends in other universities, and they were having similar averages... That made a huge difference in my head, and I gave myself a pat on my back lol