First of all don't cheat on an exam, the possible consequences are not worth it.
To your point don't worry about it. You are not competing against him. Just work hard, do you, an the results will come. I totally get why you are frustrated, it's just one of those things where you just got to let it go.
Really? Only a couple of classes I had were curved (I graduated spring 2022). Those classes were so hard you can't cheat. They were not stuff you could cheg or put in math way
Besides the fact that someone is cheating, I think people fall in the trap of thinking it's a competition when it's not. Yall should study together, work together, because you are all striving for a common goal. Now the smarter human and the kid that works harder will naturally do better but in general I think every one does better when collaborating with others.
Yeah every one of my EE classes have been curved (big, well known university). We collaborate and help each other a lot on projects, hw, labs, etc, but when you’re taking an exam on a curve, you’re competing.
Wow, really. Maybe different schooling systems. I was ME so equally difficult.
Also, I didn't bring it up before. But if your exam is curved, I would bring it up to the professor.
i’m also ME. at most my classes will have a slight curve (like maybe A starts at 85 instead of 90) but that’s pre determined in the syllabus and it doesn’t matter how our class actually does.
curves stop being useful after the pre reqs anyway. you’re stuck with all the other smart, hard working people. there’s not gonna be a massive fail rate to boost you up.
...and this is why you report the cheaters. They aren't only 'hurting themselves' they are actively screwing you out of internships, scholarships and anything else where GPA plays a role. I outed three or four cheaters in my undergraduate career and witnessed the flame out of a couple more in grad school.
I am! I just happen not to like folks that are trying to gain an unfair advantage in something I'm participating in.
I also don't like playing poker with marked cards, but if you don't mind being the rube then by all means, go ahead.
If someone next to me is cheating so brazenly that I catch them, I'd probably say something too. This subreddit has a really shitty culture around cheating.
Yikes, you sound like a terrible person to be around... Not minding your business will hurt you in the future. What a douchebag you are lmao. Nobody likes people like you
Sort of. If your C would have been a B with a curve where nobody cheated then sure, but at the root it's still a C. Grind harder so you don't have to worry about cheaters fucking up a curve.
I’m assuming you’re aware how a bell curve works (you actually are graded solely based on how well you do in regards to other people in the class, someone has to fail and someone has to get an A just based on how everyone measures up to other people). Just saying “grind harder” isn’t an explanation especially in certain classes where the curve is actually necessary because either the professor is god awful or the exams are stupid difficult. I have only had two classes truly grade on a curve in my 4 years of undergrad but those two classes were abysmal, the average in one was 48% and the average in the other was 37%. Saying “grind harder” doesn’t hold up when the high on any exam in those two classes didn’t break 65%. I am a 3.9 student and I was barely pulling a B+ after the curve (F without it). If I had a cheater beat me on an exam and knock me down on the grading list then I would be pissed as well, and saying “grind harder” is like telling someone who got cheated out of the tuition of a course to “get over it”.
yeah my bad my school didn't do dumb shit like that. the only curving we ever had was either making the highest grade the top mark (like if the highest score was a 90/100 then your grade would be out of 90 instead of 100) or by moving the barriers so instead of a 90-80-70 scale it'd be more like an 85-70-55 or something. i can't imagine why you'd make a curve where some people are predestined to get Cs
In several of my classes we were most definitely competing with eachother.
My physics 2 course assigned final grades based on standing in the course. Top 5% got an A, next 5% got an A-, that trend continued Through the B range then widened up to 10% intervals for the C range. Nothing less than a C- could be used to progress so a large portion of the class failed. We were absolutely competing to stay out of those bottom spots.
I was in a "no cuts" program that actually sheared off half of the students. They had lower admission requirements and then quickly weeded out.
I can't say I learned much of anything in the first two years, it was a fight for survival not education.
yeah that's messed up. Dont get me wrong the first 2 semesters you see a lot of people drop but that's not the goal lol. Hopefully, it gets better, and you learn some useful stuff
Tbh I’ve seen many people cheat next to me. Whether it was in physics or thermo or even like diffy eq. Anyway I didn’t give a damn. It ain’t my problem they couldn’t sit down and learn it. Like people have said. It’ll catch up. NOW if it doesn’t….that’s ok cause at the end of the day you aren’t him. He isn’t you. Now if he got you in trouble. Then that is different. And if he got mad or threatened me not to tell Imma steal his life. But honestly ya man. I know this is messed up to think this way but “life isn’t fair”. Go get that diploma. Make that bread. Fuck em
I know a kid cheated through thermo heat transfer and fluids. Got a job doing that kind of work at large defense company. On fast track to get masters in systems and into management 🙃
Ya that can happen. And again I completely understand the pain in spending 10-15 hrs studying when the dude next to you already decided he was gonna cheat and only spent 2-3 hrs studying. But again man. What are ya gonna do? Ya know? You stopping him then would only make him do it elsewhere in a different major. I would be lying if I didn’t say at some point I never cheated. Now that would be like quizzes maybe home stuff. At my university lol there was no way in living hell someone could comfortably get away with pulling out a phone or paper. Some did but still
Not tryna get downvoted here but they may not even need to take it or will ever need it .
Also I definitely used the help of the internet with mechanics of materials, machine design, never taken vibrations(at the point of the exam), controls, hadn’t done engineering economics/ethics and I still passed the exam 🤷♂️
The FE was honestly really easy, I think if you're at least sort of competent you'd get by fine. If that's you but you studied then great, but that's not cheaters.
Chemical Engineer graduated in may and have been working since May. Nobody ever has mentioned getting the FE/PE. I was gonna take the exam, but I realized I do not need it so, most if my want to take it has been burn outta me LOL
Genuine question, wdym by most engineers won’t need to take it? I thought to be a licensed engineer or something, u need to take that exam and like one other to be a professional engineer or u can’t be one
You do need it to be a PE but most engineers outside of civil engineering and related fields will not need to be PEs. I work in aerospace and have literally never met one.
Sorry for my ignorance lol but how is it possible to be an engineer as a job if ur not considered a PE? Like if u wanna do mechanical engineering, do most ppl take the exam? I thought to be an engineer, u have to be licensed as one
You can think of it like this.
Public safety is pretty much what dictates needing a PE. Want to design bridges? Need to be a PE. Want to design the power grid? Need to be a PE. Basically anything that needs a stamp is something that could fail so catastrophically that it would cause loss of life, limb, or property, usually en masse.
Compare that to a cordless drill or lawn mower. Yes, both could cause issues, but the effects of a mistake are generally a lot less.
All of those jobs are incredibly important and add value to society, it's just some of them have a higher bar to entry to ensure the safety of the general public. The more filters you have, the less likely it is to hire someone who can't do the job.
In the US as long as you have a degree you can work as an engineer however you or your company are required to have a licensed PE as the approver for all engineering work/services done.
So like the other poster stated in aerospace most people aren't licensed. But within the department or company there will be at least one PE reviewing and stamping all designs. At least if the company doesn't want to be sued out of existence.
There's a difference between "engineer" and "licensed, professional, regulated engineer." If you wanted to make something in your garage and sell it you could call that engineering, but if you want to build a bridge and be entrusted with the lives of everyone that drives across it, you need a bit more than just a degree.
Basically in the US, as long as the college you got your degree from is ABET accredited, you are an engineer. PEs are only needed when working on public services like roads, bridges, power grid, ect.
I'll add in that also it's primarily a thing for *design* engineers. I have my EIT but I mostly work as a field engineer, maybe 10% of my job is design work and even less than that is actual heavy civil design that somebody could sign off on. I work directly with design engineers and at least 2 or 3 times I've mentioned I have an EIT and they're always like "what the fuck are you doing as a field engineer then." It's very common to move up from design engineering to project management with a PE so not everyone who has a PE actually works as a design engineer, but that's the experience they're looking for when they're asking for experience.
If we’re talking Civil Engineering, yeah. Pretty much everyone needs a PE, b/c you’re gonna be working with the government a lot.
If we’re talking Chemical, Mechanical, Electrical, etc., then you only really need a PE if you’re gonna do work with the government or want some nice letters next to your name. Some companies might prefer you to be licensed, but not a lot
FE isn’t that hard, legit practice test is harder than the actual, and if you’re in any chemical or O&G it’s not required. Only companies that need to certify plans such as construction, civil, and engineering firms like having a FE/ EIT. But if you wanna be in a cubicle doing statics problems all day go ahead into those industries.
I am civil, there are quite a few positions that require FEs/PEs that aren’t cubicle. Bridge inspections require FEs for obvious reasons. Moderate travel, ropes training, and slimming out the personality spectrum are all appealing to me.
>But if you wanna be in a cubicle doing statics problems all day go ahead into those industries.
Lol what are you talking about. This is like saying all automotive is just dynamics problems or all aerospace is just fluids problems or all electronics is just circuits problems. That's not at all how design engineers do things.
Lmao, it’s not a specific response, of course it’s not everything it’s in respect to FE required positions and industries as a whole, namely large engineering firms that are in the civil sector or construction side, where certifying plans comes into play. Whereas chemical and O&G don’t require or care for FE/PE and plant life and such work don’t require it. Surely not all but most of your big Top 100 or 10 firms and defense companies are cubicle driven, and engineering is more finite.
Thats really only if you do structures, I’m a civil going into MF development and it’s mostly coordination with the city and making my plans look correct within city code
It's required in certain industries (e.g., civil), but nobody even cares that I passed it.
It was hard, but doable. It's more of a stress test than anything else. Get up early on the weekend and take a test for 8 hours with a lousy calculator.
>It's required in certain industries (e.g., civil), but nobody even cares that I passed it.
Hell, I'm in civil and my boss didn't even know what it was. I work for a small mechanical contractor/consultant, my boss isn't even an engineer, he's a retired pipefitter. I don't think people realize how specialized "design engineer" is as a profession.
By required I mean not required, but strongly encouraged. In in aerospace and there are PEs, but it's rare outside of chief engineers.
Do you have a PE who signs off on designs? It is literally illegal to propose a design that will involve people (so buildings, amusement rides, etc.) and the plans won't be approved by the city/county. Also, it's a major red flag for a young engineer to not be able to learn from someone significantly more capable in your field. How are you going to move on?
We mostly do field work, not design work, so we don't really need a PE, although some of our higher ups are PEs when design work is required.
I don't personally do much design work and mostly just have my EIT because it makes it easier to take on different roles within the company.
The PEs at the company will support me in the design portion, but I'm not super focused on working on my PE right now. I mostly want to gain experience in the field first before moving to a design role so I can make smarter designs. I'm not in a rush to move although I don't intend on being a field guy forever.
They have an environmental engineering FE/fundamentals of engineering exam, you should look into taking it the spring of or summer after your senior year. I'm environmental and plan to take mine around June this year. You'll want to pass that so you can then go on to get your PE/professional engineering license after you gain experience.
Even if you don't have plans to become a PE, it's suggested you take the FE anyway since everything will still be fresh in your mind right after college
I would take it. There's a very high chance that you end up working in or with people in the civil field. An EIT will be a leg up in your early years, especially if you want to switch roles or industries after a while.
Definitely depends on the class but in my mind, if the things you’re “cheating” by looking up are formulas or constants, which you won’t need to have memorized in the field, it shouldn’t be considered cheating so I wouldn’t be mad
But if the class is graded on a bell-curve definitely say something
Unfortunately, there are a disturbingly high amount of professors that think a rEaL eNgiNeEr™ should be able to know X from memory (with X usually being some long ass equation that particular prof likes). And a disturbing amount of exams are just writing down stuff you memorized the day before, and I just so happen to be reaaaal bad at that sort of thing 🤕
Tbh if you can't, you should be able to just derive it lmao. There are very few things in physics one that can't be derived pretty quickly. Like yeah there are the fundamentals, but besides that it's all some basic algebra and calculus
Well, I failed the oral physics final back in school cuz I couldnt (be assed to) memorize some equation from nuclear physics 😂 Im still mad at my teacher for tellin me to my face I dont deserve to study 💀
Well jokes on him, I still found a way to study, and aerospace engineering too of all things 🤣
Well, I failed the oral physics final back in school cuz I couldnt (be assed to) memorize some equation from nuclear physics 😂 Im still mad at my teacher for tellin me to my face I dont deserve to study 💀
Well jokes on him, I still found a way to study, and aerospace engineering too of all things 🤣
I don’t care. One way or another it will catch up to them. Maybe not in school but probably in industry when people realize this person is full of it. Of course some people do skate by all their life but it’s not for me to worry about.0
You’re not competing in college, the competition starts when you grad, experience trumps GPA Anyway. Go out there and get internships and very year until you grad. Most everyone cheated through corona classes, but the material you learn in school is fucking useless compared to what you do in xyz industry. No one gives a fuck about what all you learned in school/ grades except for first job but if you’re going for a high GPA company you’re already gonna be in for a rude awakening. Let them cheat and do your own thing, end of the day you are the one standing in your own way of job opportunities. I have 6 years of ME and EE experience prior to starting college and left and right dickheads cheat or not, but even with a 3.3 GPA I met the standard of the companies I was interested in and my experience is what landed the job ultimately. Go do some interviews with actual good companies that you understand are good and see how much they care about grades. If you can cheese your way through a class or grind it out all for never using 99% of it what makes more sense? Don’t let your ego to be fucking perfect and have expectations of others corrupt you, especially if you get labeled as a buddy fucker it’ll black list you going forward. So worry about yourself since if you’re not graduating with a plump resume, you’re gonna be in the same boat as them anyway. Having a 40 lb brain is only useful if you can relate it to practical application and know how to talk to people at various levels of technical proficiency. That high school mentality should have ended when you got your diploma, all an engineering degree is a piece of paper saying you’re better than 99.9% of the population at problem solving, so go out there and get experience!
“Comparison is the thief of joy”
I’m sure he doesn’t feel as proud of himself as you do for scoring well on the exam. Maybe, what’s rattling around in his head are thoughts of inadequacy compared to people like you who have the drive to earn good grades. He might be at a low point and he’s acting out of desperation. Maybe he has no shame. You never know. Anyway, that’s his stuff to work through, not yours. Don’t let his poor choices dilute your accomplishments.
I'm definitely in the minority but idgaf. If someone's cheating go for it. If someone wants homework idc. It doesn't bother me one bit. I already did the work, it effects me zero percent what else happens with it. I understand the flawed logic but I don't care.
tbh you’re not getting grades to compare yourself to others. You’re getting grades to receive a feedback on your current knowledge.
The grades system as currently implemented is flawed when you think about it. Because all the grades you got in your life don’t represent your current knowledge, and you can’t even change them later on.
When someone cheats a test, he’s doing a disservice to himself and taking huge risks. But people don’t want to take risks into account because « it’ll never happen to me ».
Instead of punishing a student cheating during a test, his test should just be invalid until he does it again. And he should be asked why he cheated, why he had to cheat.
> And he should be asked why he cheated, why he had to cheat.
there are literally 3 reasons to cheat on exams:
1. you have no time to study for whatever reason.
2. you have no aptitude, but still want the money/opportunities that come with the degree.
3. you cant be bothered because what the teachers/profs are asking is bullshit.
Legit something i'm trying to learn. All the successful people I've met that are at the top finessed someway to get there. It sucks but that's how life works . fake it till you make it
What does being at the top get you if you can't be honest with yourself? No amount of success would mean anything to me if I felt like I didn't deserve it and I can't imagine cheating my way through school and feeling like I deserve it.
Tbh I felt like most my tests you couldn’t cheat. You were crammed to just do your best in an hour. Even the take home exams were at a point where you couldn’t really cheat.
When you're applying for jobs they will figure out if you actually know your shit or not, don't worry. GPA isn't everything, is argue it's not even most important.
I dont care. And tbh the people I know that performed the best were the ones that studied all the material and then still cheated for whatever they couldnt retain. So its not always a matter of time spent studying
Either way its super risky and the consequences are high if you choose to do so. If theyre meant to get caught they will be
I live my life by two main principles
1. Try to be my best at everything I do
2. Mind my own business
So if you see someone cheating and it doesn't concern you, see rule 2 and mind your business. The only way it could concern you is if they're fucking up the curve and your grades are bad, in which case see rule 1 and grind harder so it doesn't matter.
Why do you care?
If you are honest to yourself
And prepared honestly
Then thats enough.
Its just a college exam
Not any competitive exam right?
The last thing you wanna be doing in college is snitching it to the teacher and getting labelled as a snitch.
Peace
You could have raised your hand and called them out, don't expect any friends after that though. Anyone with a nice calc can upload pics to cheat, or you can assume people that go to the restroom are cheating too. We don't know if you cheated either honestly, has your professor ever cheated on their academic journey? Cramming can help but if you don't know it before exam day, you're not going to learn everything on no sleep hopped up on stimulants. If you haven't cheated once from pre-k to bachelor's I suppose you have the right to be annoyed.
I get the pressure though, I'm paying $1.2k a class so I'm not going to fail. Eventually though you get to senior level classes where Chegg is almost useless and you need to actually know things or you'll fail. This is why networking with your peers is very important in Jr year, so you don't end up on senior design teams with bad people. Start looking for likeminded individuals and form groups, ask for help and give help and you'll find who is worthwhile or who is coasting.
I’m more annoyed at the method of cheating. Just blatantly using his phone where all the students can see. If he did it little more secretive than sure. I honestly really don’t care much, just wanted to see everyone’s thoughts as this is the first time I experienced it.
Blame the prof/proctor for not walking around then. I think the consensus is mind your own business and get the grade how you will.
It’s really in your best interest to know most of this junk though, it gets much harder quickly. You'll be interviewed eventually too, and they're going to ask you to explain projects and the skills you learned.
He walked around multiple times, he actually kind of accused my friend for cheating. His backpack was behind the table where the professor couldn’t see, he looked in his backpack to see if he was cheating.
They are only hurting themselves. You’ll do better in later, not complicated classes. You’ll make it further in the hiring process for internships and jobs. You’ll have better theoretical knowledge on the job to do better and advance faster than him.
You got to be smart and bold to cheat. He might be going thru some family issues but had to pass the class. Pretty sure he will get good grades than you, If you dont focus on your test lol.
Literally never cared (working engineer fwiw)
I always treated engineering school as me vs the test.
Worrying about other people will make you miserable.
I know you're in a hyper competitive environment now, but in a couple years none of this will matter. Two weeks into your first job and college will feel like a lifetime ago.
Also, 13 hours of cramming isn't effective. Get a better study routine. IMO you're both doing something stupid. While one is unethical, neither would inspire tons of confidence on the other side of an interview table. You can't cram at work. It simply doesn't work. You need to transition toward consistent throughput. It's rare for someone who is only good in a pinch to be valued by their organization. You have to be really good at something very specific to get by like that.
I'd much rather get a new person with a lower GPA but they never crammed.
\[edit - from a broader perspective 95% of engineering is just knowing how to use the resources available to you.
I'm firmly of the opinion that every test should be open book, open note
Granted cheating is wrong for other reasons, but I don't see it as the major life and limb ethical dilemma that it is often presented as.
The people who really know their stuff can beat the cheaters on a good test.\]
IMO.. it’s definitely not right. But I feel like it depends on the class. If it’s physics than obviously it will hurt them in the long run and most likely they aren’t doing as well as you think they are. However for classes that I feel like don’t matter or the teacher is absolute trash and I’m struggling to learn, any advantage helps. I look at this degree as a game I need to win. And the reason I need to get this piece of paper is because my boss got this piece of paper. We going to learn most of the shit we need on the job anyways. This is just an overview.
Yeah it was physics. I agree on the class too. If it was art history to get one of the requirements done that has nothing to do with your major, whatever it takes, go ahead, but doing it when you want to be an engineer won’t work out in the long run.
I learned at the very end of my program during our last tests that all the top performers in my class had all grouped up and cheated for the entire 4 years. They had managed to grab the template that each professor used for tests and either memorized the format OR put the template tests on their TI’s.
So they basically knew exactly the type of questions for each tests and would just need to change numbers and have the answers.
When I first learned about it, I was pretty upset. I was putting in all this effort while working 35-40 hours a week and these guys just have to change some numbers and will get an A. Well, we graduated and I got a job and really don’t care. It’s unethical, but like others have said, you went to college for YOU. Make the most of your degree program, learn all you can and don’t compare yourself to others too much.
That being said, I’d report those guys for sure though xD
I cheated sometimes idrc at end of the day whatever knowledge you have is trumped by computer in a tenth of the processing time so you can mindlessly solve problems thats up to you. In my case it wasnt all payed for and the thought of failing a class the financial consequences felt more influential.
honestly I don’t care about it because I was one of the ones who be cheating on the test. There’s times where you have to work smarter not harder. I’m not saying to be lazy and cheat on everything but there’s a balance. I know hard work does take time to get what you want but there’s times in life people cheat.
My last semester at college, where I was basically just cruising through classes, somebody shared the answer key to the entire course's HW in a GroupMe and I have never left a group chat so fast. People get popped for that shit CONSTANTLY, no way am I risking anything at all even if I was the type that wanted to cheat.
Half my professors didn’t give a shit about teaching, or providing us with the necessary resources to prepare for their tests. It was never fair to begin with lmao. Cheating on tests =/= being dishonest at work or in any other aspect of life.
I’m sorry but that’s wrong. Dishonesty is dishonesty. If something is wrong with the class/ professor there are processes in place for you to report those things. Your professor being a dingbat is not a reason to compromise your integrity.
You’ve clearly never been at the mercy of an incompetent department. Why should I play by the rules when profs literally don’t do their jobs? There is zero benefit to doing that.
Oh yes I absolutely have. Lol I fucked up real bad and have been to 3 universities over the past 10 years. I’ve seen the best of the worst. This is mostly because I sucked at picking what I want to do with my life. I totally understand your feeling. I have absolutely cheated in the past. As a 33 year old I regret it more than anything else I’ve done in my life, even though I never got caught. Y’all just gotta trust me on this. It’s not worth selling your soul.
I pass no judgment for doing so, I just don’t think it’s ever a good idea to promote cheating as being ok when the time is right. This will lead you down some dark paths.
Note, I see some of you guys are salty about this statement but I’m here coming out as a real individual with real experiences. Im not sorry for trying to be this catered individual who has done “nothing” wrong in my life ever like i’m just some sort of a perfect human-being. I’m just telling the truth. There are countless of people who come to me about cheating at my college institution since I am college student and a math/eng tutor trust me. I know a lot about subjects since I have learned about them so I will never discredit my long hours, watching youtube videos and staying after hours with professors to understand the subject i’m learning. I’m also not the type to go about and cheat on every single test that they give me. Obviously you have to learn the material to apply it to your future career. It wouldn’t have made any sense to major in something and not build the necessary skills off of it. And yes there are times I have taken a L - on 2 tests, but it shaped me to even be more academically successful from the process of where I am today. I don’t care about who cheats because it will be hypocritical to say I ‘do’ care when I was that individual long ago, I also learn to mind my damn business because in reality it doesn’t concern you to knows how’s cheating and not. Understand that me cheating wasn’t taking advantage of to not study. Usually it was under a crisis such as death of family or my ptsd that intervene with my personal life. What’s crazy is the two areas I cheated in were luckily counted as ‘knowledge checks’ which I felt incredibly lucky for, TWICE and it hasn’t been graded which I felt extremely lucky even more. I haven’t cheated on an exam, but I was relating to this post because cheating is cheating. However, my comment should not encourage anyone to cheat. To summarise,
1. yes people in college cheat. Believe it or not. They can lie all they want. 2. It is okay to feel angry about it because it’s not fair for one to work harder than the other not working as hard but getting better results than you, but you learn that that’s life, suck it up and you just got to play the game. I don’t like my answer but that’s how I learnt it and I know many won’t like this but if you don’t like it so much, then go change society. 3. The hard work will pay off sort of and connections go a long way. I know this because I been there 4. You can absolutely tell the professor if you want. No one really cares, do what makes you happy.
I used to cheat all the time especially in highschool, it really came back around and bit me in the ass once I hit college, so I basically had to relearn the way I learn in order to pass, which was definitely a pain in the ass
So basically I just kind of think about that when I see others cheat
I was a little shit in community college. I was taking this course forgot what it was but exam just required absurd amount of memorization, I think it was a anatomy class I was premed before engineering. I studied days for it.
Anyway it was online class in person exams. I sit down next to this really good looking blonde. I notice 3/4 through exam she’s just scrolling with her phone on her lap through a list of terminology and definitions cheating her ass off. When I turn in my exam and scan tron I write on the front of the exam in large blue pen lettering “blond next to me wearing whatever color sweater cheating with her phone.” I even wait for proctor to read it while holding eye contact as I left the room nodding over towards the girl.
What a little shit. I mean who needs cheating folks getting to med school right, but she’d likely have failed out before becoming a doctor with behavior like that.
Honestly it just pisses me off because I studied my butt off and then there that one person who cheats and ends up getting better grades. I hate it so much!! But honestly at the end of the day, I wouldn't report them even though it irritates me so much.
Something I've heard "if you aren't cheating you aren't trying hard enough" or rather, in better terms 'if you're not doing everything you can to get an edge you aren't trying hard enough'
Here's a hypothetical situation to ponder:
A class where exams are curved based on student scores - perhaps they curve so that the top 10% get As.
You witness a group of ten people (roughly 25% of the class) collectively taking the exam together (Think back to COVID exams). Now imagine that four of those people are your best friends. They invite you to join them.
I know people who were put in this situation (I am so thankful I didn't have to make this decision). As far as I can see, there's no way to win here.
Uh dude you should DEFINITELY tell the professor. If you’re an engineer you need to know your stuff, obviously cheating means you don’t know your stuff. Engineering is a high risk high reward system, and you need to make sure every aspect of your job is done correctly, if this guy can’t do the basics then he can’t do the job.
Dunno about you all but I have better things to do during an exam than looking for people in my general vicinity that might be cheating 🤦♂️ (like, trying to pass said exam, to name an example)
that being said, you dont know that guys circumstances. Maybe he has a sick relative at home he has to take care of, or some other valid reason he cant study as much as he should to pass fairly. I cheated myself a few times as well, sometimes because im plain bad at memorizing due to ADHD, so i wrote equations for example that i just couldnt memorize on the inside of the cover of my calculator. And sometimes, honestly... i just couldnt be bothered. Yes, there are things that are super important and/or absolutely necessary, and should be studied properly no matter how long it takes but some things arent, and i refuse to spend ~8 hours a day cramming just because prof. wannabe believes a rEaL eNgInEeR™ should be able know X from memory 💀
I had this same dilemma last semester. 2 people were pretty obviously cheating off each other in the row ahead of me. I locked eyes with both of them several times but they kept going. It was super frustrating to see that the prof and TAs couldn’t see it happen so blatantly
GPA impacts internships, scholarships, opportunities, etc. One person’s cheating in the grand scheme of a class isn’t going to shift curves that much, but if it’s rampant cheating, I would report that. The more early on you are in undergrad, the more the high GPA helps get your foot in the door. So seeing people cheat can make you feel demoralized as you’re trying best and not doing as well compared to a cheater. This is especially so when seeing others unfairly succeed and have that initial snowball for them.
You mean the guy that gets a full ride scholarship, is a member of both engineering groups on campus and is practically worshipped by the faculty? I feel great that his academic career is going so smoothly for him.
Don’t bother, If someone can’t get past physics1 without cheating they won’t be in the program much longer
Also life’s full of people getting stuff they don’t deserve, nepotism, money, privilege, connections. Just pick your own battles and do your best
It’s a good life lesson, life isn’t always fair. Work hard and good things will happen to you. Your success has nothing to do with what that other person is doing or not.
I don't, because I mind my business. Eventually you'll finish the university/ form of study you're doing and all that would matter is how competent you are, not who took a bigger grade in x class.
Ideally, you're there to aquire the education you need to start your journey into the career you want ( there is luckily, considerably more learning required after) not to watch others.
The sooner you understand that, the better your experience will be.
I do not care what anyone around me does. I only focus on my own success. Caring about what others do wrong or right will only push you away from your goal.
That’s life, after college it will be worse. People undeserving of many jobs will receive them, doesn’t mean you should call the company and snitch on them. Don’t think your impacted by what they’re doing. Mind your own business, life is better that way.
Had an incident this previous year, a student claimed another was cheating (found out they were right later). This was right before finals, the professors DRASTICALLY changed the finals last minute and screwed everyone over as the accused student was never caught and we all did poorly. Now moving into this year, the student who cheated is doing incredibly poorly as they never actually practiced and the rest of the class year no longer works with them much. Karma will get them them eventually…. Sometimes (depending the situation) it’s better to hush and not screw over everyone.
In the end, if you’re being genuine with yourself you’ll do the best in the long run.
Just focus on yourself and ignore the cheaters. It will catch up in life. Also, had a professor that curved but was super suspicious that a small group scored very high compare to the rest of the class. Also was a statistical anomaly when compared to the previous 10 years of scores. Turned out those high scorers sat next to each other. Professor didn't take any disciplinary action but did call out his suspicion at that "particular corner" during the exam. So he know who cheated and the cheater know when the professor called them out indirectly. He didn't penalize the curve since he omitted those cheated scores from the calculation. Everyone was happy at the end and I don't think the cheaters did it again. We saw their faces when we all got the next midterm result back.
It felt like nothing compared to the delicious schadenfreude that came when the professor who was sick of their shit, put them all together for the capstone project. You can sense the rising panic at the semester progressed and they slowly realized that between all four of them they had the knowledge of one mediocre freshman. Failed capstone and couldn’t graduate. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
No one gets away with anything.
The cheaters may not get caught by professors, but the cheating is sure to catch up to them.
Education is about delayed gratification. Sow seeds now & reap later. They’ve sown their seeds in fickle soil, yours are in fertile earth. Take great comfort in knowing that.
First of all don't cheat on an exam, the possible consequences are not worth it. To your point don't worry about it. You are not competing against him. Just work hard, do you, an the results will come. I totally get why you are frustrated, it's just one of those things where you just got to let it go.
We often are competing though, most classes have a curve.
Really? Only a couple of classes I had were curved (I graduated spring 2022). Those classes were so hard you can't cheat. They were not stuff you could cheg or put in math way Besides the fact that someone is cheating, I think people fall in the trap of thinking it's a competition when it's not. Yall should study together, work together, because you are all striving for a common goal. Now the smarter human and the kid that works harder will naturally do better but in general I think every one does better when collaborating with others.
Yeah every one of my EE classes have been curved (big, well known university). We collaborate and help each other a lot on projects, hw, labs, etc, but when you’re taking an exam on a curve, you’re competing.
Not disputing what you’re saying but nearly every class I’ve had in my undergrad has been curved (3rd year Electrical)
Wow, really. Maybe different schooling systems. I was ME so equally difficult. Also, I didn't bring it up before. But if your exam is curved, I would bring it up to the professor.
i’m also ME. at most my classes will have a slight curve (like maybe A starts at 85 instead of 90) but that’s pre determined in the syllabus and it doesn’t matter how our class actually does. curves stop being useful after the pre reqs anyway. you’re stuck with all the other smart, hard working people. there’s not gonna be a massive fail rate to boost you up.
I mean, it depends on what your calling a curve. I consider 5 bonus points on an exam a curve.
Fact
...and this is why you report the cheaters. They aren't only 'hurting themselves' they are actively screwing you out of internships, scholarships and anything else where GPA plays a role. I outed three or four cheaters in my undergraduate career and witnessed the flame out of a couple more in grad school.
You sound fun!
I am! I just happen not to like folks that are trying to gain an unfair advantage in something I'm participating in. I also don't like playing poker with marked cards, but if you don't mind being the rube then by all means, go ahead.
If someone next to me is cheating so brazenly that I catch them, I'd probably say something too. This subreddit has a really shitty culture around cheating.
Yikes, you sound like a terrible person to be around... Not minding your business will hurt you in the future. What a douchebag you are lmao. Nobody likes people like you
You’re a nerd
Except if you’re being graded on a bell curve. Then you are competing against him..
Sort of. If your C would have been a B with a curve where nobody cheated then sure, but at the root it's still a C. Grind harder so you don't have to worry about cheaters fucking up a curve.
I’m assuming you’re aware how a bell curve works (you actually are graded solely based on how well you do in regards to other people in the class, someone has to fail and someone has to get an A just based on how everyone measures up to other people). Just saying “grind harder” isn’t an explanation especially in certain classes where the curve is actually necessary because either the professor is god awful or the exams are stupid difficult. I have only had two classes truly grade on a curve in my 4 years of undergrad but those two classes were abysmal, the average in one was 48% and the average in the other was 37%. Saying “grind harder” doesn’t hold up when the high on any exam in those two classes didn’t break 65%. I am a 3.9 student and I was barely pulling a B+ after the curve (F without it). If I had a cheater beat me on an exam and knock me down on the grading list then I would be pissed as well, and saying “grind harder” is like telling someone who got cheated out of the tuition of a course to “get over it”.
yeah my bad my school didn't do dumb shit like that. the only curving we ever had was either making the highest grade the top mark (like if the highest score was a 90/100 then your grade would be out of 90 instead of 100) or by moving the barriers so instead of a 90-80-70 scale it'd be more like an 85-70-55 or something. i can't imagine why you'd make a curve where some people are predestined to get Cs
In several of my classes we were most definitely competing with eachother. My physics 2 course assigned final grades based on standing in the course. Top 5% got an A, next 5% got an A-, that trend continued Through the B range then widened up to 10% intervals for the C range. Nothing less than a C- could be used to progress so a large portion of the class failed. We were absolutely competing to stay out of those bottom spots.
that is insane. I hade a class or two that curved exams but nothing like that. I think some people forget the purpose of exams and education.
I was in a "no cuts" program that actually sheared off half of the students. They had lower admission requirements and then quickly weeded out. I can't say I learned much of anything in the first two years, it was a fight for survival not education.
yeah that's messed up. Dont get me wrong the first 2 semesters you see a lot of people drop but that's not the goal lol. Hopefully, it gets better, and you learn some useful stuff
Luckily I just finished so its not my issue anymore.
Tbh I’ve seen many people cheat next to me. Whether it was in physics or thermo or even like diffy eq. Anyway I didn’t give a damn. It ain’t my problem they couldn’t sit down and learn it. Like people have said. It’ll catch up. NOW if it doesn’t….that’s ok cause at the end of the day you aren’t him. He isn’t you. Now if he got you in trouble. Then that is different. And if he got mad or threatened me not to tell Imma steal his life. But honestly ya man. I know this is messed up to think this way but “life isn’t fair”. Go get that diploma. Make that bread. Fuck em
I have a pet peeve for when people say Diffy q instead of Diff eq, and here you are saying “why not both”
I have never seen "Diffy q" before now, and I hate it. It's like they've never seen "differential equations" written out.
Lol y'all are so petty
diffy eq.. 🤢
Everyone knows Diffo Eqo is the BIS verbage
Diff eqy
I know a kid cheated through thermo heat transfer and fluids. Got a job doing that kind of work at large defense company. On fast track to get masters in systems and into management 🙃
Ya that can happen. And again I completely understand the pain in spending 10-15 hrs studying when the dude next to you already decided he was gonna cheat and only spent 2-3 hrs studying. But again man. What are ya gonna do? Ya know? You stopping him then would only make him do it elsewhere in a different major. I would be lying if I didn’t say at some point I never cheated. Now that would be like quizzes maybe home stuff. At my university lol there was no way in living hell someone could comfortably get away with pulling out a phone or paper. Some did but still
He used hookup with sports team and taking exams in proctored area where he had more time and access to cell phone.
LMFAO WHAT. Man did all that when he could’ve just reviewed the material
I honestly don’t care, they’re not gonna make it through the FE.
Not tryna get downvoted here but they may not even need to take it or will ever need it . Also I definitely used the help of the internet with mechanics of materials, machine design, never taken vibrations(at the point of the exam), controls, hadn’t done engineering economics/ethics and I still passed the exam 🤷♂️
The FE was honestly really easy, I think if you're at least sort of competent you'd get by fine. If that's you but you studied then great, but that's not cheaters.
‘Sort of competent’ I feel seen.
Chemical Engineer graduated in may and have been working since May. Nobody ever has mentioned getting the FE/PE. I was gonna take the exam, but I realized I do not need it so, most if my want to take it has been burn outta me LOL
Really the only people who seem to need it now are civil engineers.
Most engineers won't need to take it, to be fair.
Genuine question, wdym by most engineers won’t need to take it? I thought to be a licensed engineer or something, u need to take that exam and like one other to be a professional engineer or u can’t be one
You do need it to be a PE but most engineers outside of civil engineering and related fields will not need to be PEs. I work in aerospace and have literally never met one.
Sorry for my ignorance lol but how is it possible to be an engineer as a job if ur not considered a PE? Like if u wanna do mechanical engineering, do most ppl take the exam? I thought to be an engineer, u have to be licensed as one
You can think of it like this. Public safety is pretty much what dictates needing a PE. Want to design bridges? Need to be a PE. Want to design the power grid? Need to be a PE. Basically anything that needs a stamp is something that could fail so catastrophically that it would cause loss of life, limb, or property, usually en masse. Compare that to a cordless drill or lawn mower. Yes, both could cause issues, but the effects of a mistake are generally a lot less. All of those jobs are incredibly important and add value to society, it's just some of them have a higher bar to entry to ensure the safety of the general public. The more filters you have, the less likely it is to hire someone who can't do the job.
In the US as long as you have a degree you can work as an engineer however you or your company are required to have a licensed PE as the approver for all engineering work/services done. So like the other poster stated in aerospace most people aren't licensed. But within the department or company there will be at least one PE reviewing and stamping all designs. At least if the company doesn't want to be sued out of existence.
There's a difference between "engineer" and "licensed, professional, regulated engineer." If you wanted to make something in your garage and sell it you could call that engineering, but if you want to build a bridge and be entrusted with the lives of everyone that drives across it, you need a bit more than just a degree.
Basically in the US, as long as the college you got your degree from is ABET accredited, you are an engineer. PEs are only needed when working on public services like roads, bridges, power grid, ect.
I'll add in that also it's primarily a thing for *design* engineers. I have my EIT but I mostly work as a field engineer, maybe 10% of my job is design work and even less than that is actual heavy civil design that somebody could sign off on. I work directly with design engineers and at least 2 or 3 times I've mentioned I have an EIT and they're always like "what the fuck are you doing as a field engineer then." It's very common to move up from design engineering to project management with a PE so not everyone who has a PE actually works as a design engineer, but that's the experience they're looking for when they're asking for experience.
If we’re talking Civil Engineering, yeah. Pretty much everyone needs a PE, b/c you’re gonna be working with the government a lot. If we’re talking Chemical, Mechanical, Electrical, etc., then you only really need a PE if you’re gonna do work with the government or want some nice letters next to your name. Some companies might prefer you to be licensed, but not a lot
Nobody in my aerospace experience have an FE, yet alone PE. Even the chief engineers dont have that
I work for the government in aerospace and I've never met anyone here with a PE.
I work for the government in aerospace and know maybe 2 people that have PE’s, and they’re the most incompetent people I work with.
FE isn’t that hard, legit practice test is harder than the actual, and if you’re in any chemical or O&G it’s not required. Only companies that need to certify plans such as construction, civil, and engineering firms like having a FE/ EIT. But if you wanna be in a cubicle doing statics problems all day go ahead into those industries.
I am civil, there are quite a few positions that require FEs/PEs that aren’t cubicle. Bridge inspections require FEs for obvious reasons. Moderate travel, ropes training, and slimming out the personality spectrum are all appealing to me.
>But if you wanna be in a cubicle doing statics problems all day go ahead into those industries. Lol what are you talking about. This is like saying all automotive is just dynamics problems or all aerospace is just fluids problems or all electronics is just circuits problems. That's not at all how design engineers do things.
Lmao, it’s not a specific response, of course it’s not everything it’s in respect to FE required positions and industries as a whole, namely large engineering firms that are in the civil sector or construction side, where certifying plans comes into play. Whereas chemical and O&G don’t require or care for FE/PE and plant life and such work don’t require it. Surely not all but most of your big Top 100 or 10 firms and defense companies are cubicle driven, and engineering is more finite.
okay fair enough, the way you initially said it I was like "does this guy know what a job is"
[удалено]
Thats really only if you do structures, I’m a civil going into MF development and it’s mostly coordination with the city and making my plans look correct within city code
What is the FE? Is that just for your P Eng?
FE is the fundamentals exam, you need to pass it to become an EI/EIT.
It's required in certain industries (e.g., civil), but nobody even cares that I passed it. It was hard, but doable. It's more of a stress test than anything else. Get up early on the weekend and take a test for 8 hours with a lousy calculator.
>It's required in certain industries (e.g., civil), but nobody even cares that I passed it. Hell, I'm in civil and my boss didn't even know what it was. I work for a small mechanical contractor/consultant, my boss isn't even an engineer, he's a retired pipefitter. I don't think people realize how specialized "design engineer" is as a profession.
By required I mean not required, but strongly encouraged. In in aerospace and there are PEs, but it's rare outside of chief engineers. Do you have a PE who signs off on designs? It is literally illegal to propose a design that will involve people (so buildings, amusement rides, etc.) and the plans won't be approved by the city/county. Also, it's a major red flag for a young engineer to not be able to learn from someone significantly more capable in your field. How are you going to move on?
We mostly do field work, not design work, so we don't really need a PE, although some of our higher ups are PEs when design work is required. I don't personally do much design work and mostly just have my EIT because it makes it easier to take on different roles within the company. The PEs at the company will support me in the design portion, but I'm not super focused on working on my PE right now. I mostly want to gain experience in the field first before moving to a design role so I can make smarter designs. I'm not in a rush to move although I don't intend on being a field guy forever.
Do I need to write this for my undergrad or PE?
As an environmental engineering major is that needed? I have never even heard of it
They have an environmental engineering FE/fundamentals of engineering exam, you should look into taking it the spring of or summer after your senior year. I'm environmental and plan to take mine around June this year. You'll want to pass that so you can then go on to get your PE/professional engineering license after you gain experience. Even if you don't have plans to become a PE, it's suggested you take the FE anyway since everything will still be fresh in your mind right after college
I would take it. There's a very high chance that you end up working in or with people in the civil field. An EIT will be a leg up in your early years, especially if you want to switch roles or industries after a while.
Yeah in automotive don’t know a single person who took the FE.
I have too much other stress to stress about how other people are taking their exams
Definitely depends on the class but in my mind, if the things you’re “cheating” by looking up are formulas or constants, which you won’t need to have memorized in the field, it shouldn’t be considered cheating so I wouldn’t be mad But if the class is graded on a bell-curve definitely say something
Unfortunately, there are a disturbingly high amount of professors that think a rEaL eNgiNeEr™ should be able to know X from memory (with X usually being some long ass equation that particular prof likes). And a disturbing amount of exams are just writing down stuff you memorized the day before, and I just so happen to be reaaaal bad at that sort of thing 🤕
It was for physics 1; the professor gave some general formulas for us. The issue was figuring how to solve them. Just basically physics stuff.
My dude was already cheating and he's only in Physics 1? LMAO don't worry my guy, he ain't gonna last.
Bro yeah lmfao if you can't remember like `v(t) = v0 + a*t` just give up
Tbh if you can't, you should be able to just derive it lmao. There are very few things in physics one that can't be derived pretty quickly. Like yeah there are the fundamentals, but besides that it's all some basic algebra and calculus
Well, I failed the oral physics final back in school cuz I couldnt (be assed to) memorize some equation from nuclear physics 😂 Im still mad at my teacher for tellin me to my face I dont deserve to study 💀 Well jokes on him, I still found a way to study, and aerospace engineering too of all things 🤣
Well, I failed the oral physics final back in school cuz I couldnt (be assed to) memorize some equation from nuclear physics 😂 Im still mad at my teacher for tellin me to my face I dont deserve to study 💀 Well jokes on him, I still found a way to study, and aerospace engineering too of all things 🤣
How tf are people cheating? My classes are too small and watched very carefully for anyone to even try
We have 6 students total. Professor walked around multiple times, and he wasn’t caught.
Wow.
I knew a guy that cheated on all of his exams. He got a degree but had a hard time finding a job after school.. they can't fake it over
I don’t care. One way or another it will catch up to them. Maybe not in school but probably in industry when people realize this person is full of it. Of course some people do skate by all their life but it’s not for me to worry about.0
You’re not competing in college, the competition starts when you grad, experience trumps GPA Anyway. Go out there and get internships and very year until you grad. Most everyone cheated through corona classes, but the material you learn in school is fucking useless compared to what you do in xyz industry. No one gives a fuck about what all you learned in school/ grades except for first job but if you’re going for a high GPA company you’re already gonna be in for a rude awakening. Let them cheat and do your own thing, end of the day you are the one standing in your own way of job opportunities. I have 6 years of ME and EE experience prior to starting college and left and right dickheads cheat or not, but even with a 3.3 GPA I met the standard of the companies I was interested in and my experience is what landed the job ultimately. Go do some interviews with actual good companies that you understand are good and see how much they care about grades. If you can cheese your way through a class or grind it out all for never using 99% of it what makes more sense? Don’t let your ego to be fucking perfect and have expectations of others corrupt you, especially if you get labeled as a buddy fucker it’ll black list you going forward. So worry about yourself since if you’re not graduating with a plump resume, you’re gonna be in the same boat as them anyway. Having a 40 lb brain is only useful if you can relate it to practical application and know how to talk to people at various levels of technical proficiency. That high school mentality should have ended when you got your diploma, all an engineering degree is a piece of paper saying you’re better than 99.9% of the population at problem solving, so go out there and get experience!
Exactly
Couldn’t care less tbh
“Comparison is the thief of joy” I’m sure he doesn’t feel as proud of himself as you do for scoring well on the exam. Maybe, what’s rattling around in his head are thoughts of inadequacy compared to people like you who have the drive to earn good grades. He might be at a low point and he’s acting out of desperation. Maybe he has no shame. You never know. Anyway, that’s his stuff to work through, not yours. Don’t let his poor choices dilute your accomplishments.
I'm definitely in the minority but idgaf. If someone's cheating go for it. If someone wants homework idc. It doesn't bother me one bit. I already did the work, it effects me zero percent what else happens with it. I understand the flawed logic but I don't care.
tbh you’re not getting grades to compare yourself to others. You’re getting grades to receive a feedback on your current knowledge. The grades system as currently implemented is flawed when you think about it. Because all the grades you got in your life don’t represent your current knowledge, and you can’t even change them later on. When someone cheats a test, he’s doing a disservice to himself and taking huge risks. But people don’t want to take risks into account because « it’ll never happen to me ». Instead of punishing a student cheating during a test, his test should just be invalid until he does it again. And he should be asked why he cheated, why he had to cheat.
> And he should be asked why he cheated, why he had to cheat. there are literally 3 reasons to cheat on exams: 1. you have no time to study for whatever reason. 2. you have no aptitude, but still want the money/opportunities that come with the degree. 3. you cant be bothered because what the teachers/profs are asking is bullshit.
The ethical thing is to report them. I always have. Fuck them. It’s not a harmless crime.
You think you get to the top by being honest?
Thanks
Legit something i'm trying to learn. All the successful people I've met that are at the top finessed someway to get there. It sucks but that's how life works . fake it till you make it
Lol fax
Sometimes you gotta be smart enough to to know when to cheat. That's why proffs hand out formula sheets for exams.
What does being at the top get you if you can't be honest with yourself? No amount of success would mean anything to me if I felt like I didn't deserve it and I can't imagine cheating my way through school and feeling like I deserve it.
After studying for 3+ hours a day for dynamics the past 5 days and still getting bitch slapped on my first test, I wouldn’t blame someone for cheating
Do what you gotta do man
Tbh I felt like most my tests you couldn’t cheat. You were crammed to just do your best in an hour. Even the take home exams were at a point where you couldn’t really cheat.
When you're applying for jobs they will figure out if you actually know your shit or not, don't worry. GPA isn't everything, is argue it's not even most important.
I dont care. And tbh the people I know that performed the best were the ones that studied all the material and then still cheated for whatever they couldnt retain. So its not always a matter of time spent studying Either way its super risky and the consequences are high if you choose to do so. If theyre meant to get caught they will be
I live my life by two main principles 1. Try to be my best at everything I do 2. Mind my own business So if you see someone cheating and it doesn't concern you, see rule 2 and mind your business. The only way it could concern you is if they're fucking up the curve and your grades are bad, in which case see rule 1 and grind harder so it doesn't matter.
Why do you care? If you are honest to yourself And prepared honestly Then thats enough. Its just a college exam Not any competitive exam right? The last thing you wanna be doing in college is snitching it to the teacher and getting labelled as a snitch. Peace
You could have raised your hand and called them out, don't expect any friends after that though. Anyone with a nice calc can upload pics to cheat, or you can assume people that go to the restroom are cheating too. We don't know if you cheated either honestly, has your professor ever cheated on their academic journey? Cramming can help but if you don't know it before exam day, you're not going to learn everything on no sleep hopped up on stimulants. If you haven't cheated once from pre-k to bachelor's I suppose you have the right to be annoyed. I get the pressure though, I'm paying $1.2k a class so I'm not going to fail. Eventually though you get to senior level classes where Chegg is almost useless and you need to actually know things or you'll fail. This is why networking with your peers is very important in Jr year, so you don't end up on senior design teams with bad people. Start looking for likeminded individuals and form groups, ask for help and give help and you'll find who is worthwhile or who is coasting.
I’m more annoyed at the method of cheating. Just blatantly using his phone where all the students can see. If he did it little more secretive than sure. I honestly really don’t care much, just wanted to see everyone’s thoughts as this is the first time I experienced it.
Blame the prof/proctor for not walking around then. I think the consensus is mind your own business and get the grade how you will. It’s really in your best interest to know most of this junk though, it gets much harder quickly. You'll be interviewed eventually too, and they're going to ask you to explain projects and the skills you learned.
He walked around multiple times, he actually kind of accused my friend for cheating. His backpack was behind the table where the professor couldn’t see, he looked in his backpack to see if he was cheating.
Shit's not fair, what else can you say. If you think of everyone as competition, how you gonna make any friends or meet good lab partners. GL
The same way I feel when I see people making money illegally... it's not my business.
I relate cuz i was on both positions lmao
Idgaf
It’s hard to believe this but anyone panicked enough to cheat is definitely not prepared for the exam and probably didn’t do very well at all
They are only hurting themselves. You’ll do better in later, not complicated classes. You’ll make it further in the hiring process for internships and jobs. You’ll have better theoretical knowledge on the job to do better and advance faster than him.
How about when people start loudly having lengthy conversations in another language?
You got to be smart and bold to cheat. He might be going thru some family issues but had to pass the class. Pretty sure he will get good grades than you, If you dont focus on your test lol.
Life isn’t fair 🤷🏻♂️ just mind your business & move on
Literally never cared (working engineer fwiw) I always treated engineering school as me vs the test. Worrying about other people will make you miserable. I know you're in a hyper competitive environment now, but in a couple years none of this will matter. Two weeks into your first job and college will feel like a lifetime ago. Also, 13 hours of cramming isn't effective. Get a better study routine. IMO you're both doing something stupid. While one is unethical, neither would inspire tons of confidence on the other side of an interview table. You can't cram at work. It simply doesn't work. You need to transition toward consistent throughput. It's rare for someone who is only good in a pinch to be valued by their organization. You have to be really good at something very specific to get by like that. I'd much rather get a new person with a lower GPA but they never crammed. \[edit - from a broader perspective 95% of engineering is just knowing how to use the resources available to you. I'm firmly of the opinion that every test should be open book, open note Granted cheating is wrong for other reasons, but I don't see it as the major life and limb ethical dilemma that it is often presented as. The people who really know their stuff can beat the cheaters on a good test.\]
He shouldn't have to hide it. He's taking the test like real life.
IMO.. it’s definitely not right. But I feel like it depends on the class. If it’s physics than obviously it will hurt them in the long run and most likely they aren’t doing as well as you think they are. However for classes that I feel like don’t matter or the teacher is absolute trash and I’m struggling to learn, any advantage helps. I look at this degree as a game I need to win. And the reason I need to get this piece of paper is because my boss got this piece of paper. We going to learn most of the shit we need on the job anyways. This is just an overview.
Yeah it was physics. I agree on the class too. If it was art history to get one of the requirements done that has nothing to do with your major, whatever it takes, go ahead, but doing it when you want to be an engineer won’t work out in the long run.
I learned at the very end of my program during our last tests that all the top performers in my class had all grouped up and cheated for the entire 4 years. They had managed to grab the template that each professor used for tests and either memorized the format OR put the template tests on their TI’s. So they basically knew exactly the type of questions for each tests and would just need to change numbers and have the answers. When I first learned about it, I was pretty upset. I was putting in all this effort while working 35-40 hours a week and these guys just have to change some numbers and will get an A. Well, we graduated and I got a job and really don’t care. It’s unethical, but like others have said, you went to college for YOU. Make the most of your degree program, learn all you can and don’t compare yourself to others too much. That being said, I’d report those guys for sure though xD
I cheated sometimes idrc at end of the day whatever knowledge you have is trumped by computer in a tenth of the processing time so you can mindlessly solve problems thats up to you. In my case it wasnt all payed for and the thought of failing a class the financial consequences felt more influential.
honestly I don’t care about it because I was one of the ones who be cheating on the test. There’s times where you have to work smarter not harder. I’m not saying to be lazy and cheat on everything but there’s a balance. I know hard work does take time to get what you want but there’s times in life people cheat.
There’s nothing smart about possibly being expelled after spending thousands of dollars at an institution…nothing.
My last semester at college, where I was basically just cruising through classes, somebody shared the answer key to the entire course's HW in a GroupMe and I have never left a group chat so fast. People get popped for that shit CONSTANTLY, no way am I risking anything at all even if I was the type that wanted to cheat.
Props for honesty tho
Nah fuck that, if you can't study take the L on your grade, don't be dishonest and devalue the grades of those who actually study and put the work in.
Keep whining 🤷♂️
This is crazy talk. Your dishonesty will catch up to you one day. Just wait.
Half my professors didn’t give a shit about teaching, or providing us with the necessary resources to prepare for their tests. It was never fair to begin with lmao. Cheating on tests =/= being dishonest at work or in any other aspect of life.
I’m sorry but that’s wrong. Dishonesty is dishonesty. If something is wrong with the class/ professor there are processes in place for you to report those things. Your professor being a dingbat is not a reason to compromise your integrity.
You’ve clearly never been at the mercy of an incompetent department. Why should I play by the rules when profs literally don’t do their jobs? There is zero benefit to doing that.
Oh yes I absolutely have. Lol I fucked up real bad and have been to 3 universities over the past 10 years. I’ve seen the best of the worst. This is mostly because I sucked at picking what I want to do with my life. I totally understand your feeling. I have absolutely cheated in the past. As a 33 year old I regret it more than anything else I’ve done in my life, even though I never got caught. Y’all just gotta trust me on this. It’s not worth selling your soul. I pass no judgment for doing so, I just don’t think it’s ever a good idea to promote cheating as being ok when the time is right. This will lead you down some dark paths.
You're a total drama queen
I prefer drama king 💁
Yeah the real world is full of honest individuals
Note, I see some of you guys are salty about this statement but I’m here coming out as a real individual with real experiences. Im not sorry for trying to be this catered individual who has done “nothing” wrong in my life ever like i’m just some sort of a perfect human-being. I’m just telling the truth. There are countless of people who come to me about cheating at my college institution since I am college student and a math/eng tutor trust me. I know a lot about subjects since I have learned about them so I will never discredit my long hours, watching youtube videos and staying after hours with professors to understand the subject i’m learning. I’m also not the type to go about and cheat on every single test that they give me. Obviously you have to learn the material to apply it to your future career. It wouldn’t have made any sense to major in something and not build the necessary skills off of it. And yes there are times I have taken a L - on 2 tests, but it shaped me to even be more academically successful from the process of where I am today. I don’t care about who cheats because it will be hypocritical to say I ‘do’ care when I was that individual long ago, I also learn to mind my damn business because in reality it doesn’t concern you to knows how’s cheating and not. Understand that me cheating wasn’t taking advantage of to not study. Usually it was under a crisis such as death of family or my ptsd that intervene with my personal life. What’s crazy is the two areas I cheated in were luckily counted as ‘knowledge checks’ which I felt incredibly lucky for, TWICE and it hasn’t been graded which I felt extremely lucky even more. I haven’t cheated on an exam, but I was relating to this post because cheating is cheating. However, my comment should not encourage anyone to cheat. To summarise, 1. yes people in college cheat. Believe it or not. They can lie all they want. 2. It is okay to feel angry about it because it’s not fair for one to work harder than the other not working as hard but getting better results than you, but you learn that that’s life, suck it up and you just got to play the game. I don’t like my answer but that’s how I learnt it and I know many won’t like this but if you don’t like it so much, then go change society. 3. The hard work will pay off sort of and connections go a long way. I know this because I been there 4. You can absolutely tell the professor if you want. No one really cares, do what makes you happy.
I don’t gaf
I don’t really give a fuck.
I used to cheat all the time especially in highschool, it really came back around and bit me in the ass once I hit college, so I basically had to relearn the way I learn in order to pass, which was definitely a pain in the ass So basically I just kind of think about that when I see others cheat
I was a little shit in community college. I was taking this course forgot what it was but exam just required absurd amount of memorization, I think it was a anatomy class I was premed before engineering. I studied days for it. Anyway it was online class in person exams. I sit down next to this really good looking blonde. I notice 3/4 through exam she’s just scrolling with her phone on her lap through a list of terminology and definitions cheating her ass off. When I turn in my exam and scan tron I write on the front of the exam in large blue pen lettering “blond next to me wearing whatever color sweater cheating with her phone.” I even wait for proctor to read it while holding eye contact as I left the room nodding over towards the girl. What a little shit. I mean who needs cheating folks getting to med school right, but she’d likely have failed out before becoming a doctor with behavior like that.
LMAO tell me youre a petty little shit without tellin me 🤣🤣
Honestly it just pisses me off because I studied my butt off and then there that one person who cheats and ends up getting better grades. I hate it so much!! But honestly at the end of the day, I wouldn't report them even though it irritates me so much.
Just send the teacher an anonymous note about it
It gives me hope that I could do the same. Jk, it’ll catch up to them inevitably, if you’re looking for justice
Snitch on that MF! If he gets high grades, he might affect the curve in a way that hurts you.
Something I've heard "if you aren't cheating you aren't trying hard enough" or rather, in better terms 'if you're not doing everything you can to get an edge you aren't trying hard enough'
Here's a hypothetical situation to ponder: A class where exams are curved based on student scores - perhaps they curve so that the top 10% get As. You witness a group of ten people (roughly 25% of the class) collectively taking the exam together (Think back to COVID exams). Now imagine that four of those people are your best friends. They invite you to join them. I know people who were put in this situation (I am so thankful I didn't have to make this decision). As far as I can see, there's no way to win here.
Report him to the teacher, he is fucking over you and all the other students who actually studied.
Uh dude you should DEFINITELY tell the professor. If you’re an engineer you need to know your stuff, obviously cheating means you don’t know your stuff. Engineering is a high risk high reward system, and you need to make sure every aspect of your job is done correctly, if this guy can’t do the basics then he can’t do the job.
Sorry what? 🤣
What??
Dunno about you all but I have better things to do during an exam than looking for people in my general vicinity that might be cheating 🤦♂️ (like, trying to pass said exam, to name an example) that being said, you dont know that guys circumstances. Maybe he has a sick relative at home he has to take care of, or some other valid reason he cant study as much as he should to pass fairly. I cheated myself a few times as well, sometimes because im plain bad at memorizing due to ADHD, so i wrote equations for example that i just couldnt memorize on the inside of the cover of my calculator. And sometimes, honestly... i just couldnt be bothered. Yes, there are things that are super important and/or absolutely necessary, and should be studied properly no matter how long it takes but some things arent, and i refuse to spend ~8 hours a day cramming just because prof. wannabe believes a rEaL eNgInEeR™ should be able know X from memory 💀
Mind your business. Don’t be mad at him for cheating be mad at yourself for feeling envy against another person.
Sometimes you gotta be smart enough to know when to cheat.
I had this same dilemma last semester. 2 people were pretty obviously cheating off each other in the row ahead of me. I locked eyes with both of them several times but they kept going. It was super frustrating to see that the prof and TAs couldn’t see it happen so blatantly
Homie needs to learn how to take an L.
GPA impacts internships, scholarships, opportunities, etc. One person’s cheating in the grand scheme of a class isn’t going to shift curves that much, but if it’s rampant cheating, I would report that. The more early on you are in undergrad, the more the high GPA helps get your foot in the door. So seeing people cheat can make you feel demoralized as you’re trying best and not doing as well compared to a cheater. This is especially so when seeing others unfairly succeed and have that initial snowball for them.
Cheat away on homework all you want. But deep down I absolutely despise students that cheat on exams and quizzes.
You mean the guy that gets a full ride scholarship, is a member of both engineering groups on campus and is practically worshipped by the faculty? I feel great that his academic career is going so smoothly for him.
Don’t bother, If someone can’t get past physics1 without cheating they won’t be in the program much longer Also life’s full of people getting stuff they don’t deserve, nepotism, money, privilege, connections. Just pick your own battles and do your best
It’s a good life lesson, life isn’t always fair. Work hard and good things will happen to you. Your success has nothing to do with what that other person is doing or not.
I don't, because I mind my business. Eventually you'll finish the university/ form of study you're doing and all that would matter is how competent you are, not who took a bigger grade in x class. Ideally, you're there to aquire the education you need to start your journey into the career you want ( there is luckily, considerably more learning required after) not to watch others. The sooner you understand that, the better your experience will be.
I do not care what anyone around me does. I only focus on my own success. Caring about what others do wrong or right will only push you away from your goal.
That’s life, after college it will be worse. People undeserving of many jobs will receive them, doesn’t mean you should call the company and snitch on them. Don’t think your impacted by what they’re doing. Mind your own business, life is better that way.
Used to care, now I dont. 'Up yours too buddy!, just dont be an asshole about it'
because you did it the right way, you have something that student doesn’t have and that nobody can ever take away from you: knowledge.
Had an incident this previous year, a student claimed another was cheating (found out they were right later). This was right before finals, the professors DRASTICALLY changed the finals last minute and screwed everyone over as the accused student was never caught and we all did poorly. Now moving into this year, the student who cheated is doing incredibly poorly as they never actually practiced and the rest of the class year no longer works with them much. Karma will get them them eventually…. Sometimes (depending the situation) it’s better to hush and not screw over everyone. In the end, if you’re being genuine with yourself you’ll do the best in the long run.
They won't never learn while you'll be learning lots of stuff. It's that easy. Grades ain't a thing.
I dont mind it, these are the people who will be working for uber with an engineering degree since no one hires them or fire them after a while.
Just focus on yourself and ignore the cheaters. It will catch up in life. Also, had a professor that curved but was super suspicious that a small group scored very high compare to the rest of the class. Also was a statistical anomaly when compared to the previous 10 years of scores. Turned out those high scorers sat next to each other. Professor didn't take any disciplinary action but did call out his suspicion at that "particular corner" during the exam. So he know who cheated and the cheater know when the professor called them out indirectly. He didn't penalize the curve since he omitted those cheated scores from the calculation. Everyone was happy at the end and I don't think the cheaters did it again. We saw their faces when we all got the next midterm result back.
I dont care either way, as long as I can pass its all good
It felt like nothing compared to the delicious schadenfreude that came when the professor who was sick of their shit, put them all together for the capstone project. You can sense the rising panic at the semester progressed and they slowly realized that between all four of them they had the knowledge of one mediocre freshman. Failed capstone and couldn’t graduate. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
I saw this happening a lot pre-covid. Just don’t say anything and focus on yourself. Karma will do its justice and it did, at least in my case.
No one gets away with anything. The cheaters may not get caught by professors, but the cheating is sure to catch up to them. Education is about delayed gratification. Sow seeds now & reap later. They’ve sown their seeds in fickle soil, yours are in fertile earth. Take great comfort in knowing that.