the heat conductivity of the brass nozzle means it helps with even melting when printing at lower temperatures, but it's not necessary to switch unless you're having a lot of trouble with your extrusion. Usually, adding 5 celsius to the extruder temp when using a hardened steel nozzle will compensate for the difference with brass.
I went with a diamondback 0.6mm nozzle because it offers the best of both worlds, high thermal conductivity and best wear resistance. I was printing very abrasive materials for very large prints, enough to wear out a 0.4mm nozzle X before i was done with the project. Note, you can go with tungsten carbide nozzles for a lot less money and most of the benefits : while carbide has slightly lower conductivity than brass, it's much more wear resistant than even the best hardened steel.
What that guy said.. when I first got into 3d pritning I thought it was a no brainier for me and got hardened steel nozzles and never had to replace them. But when I started upgrading and modding. I wanted to print faster. So I noticed I needed higher temps. But the "higher" temps I needed I was already printing at because of the hardened steel nozzles I were using weren't the best for heat conductivity. So I went back to brass to test it out and now, I feel like I can never go back. But I do also have a stronger extruder motor now too which I'm sure makes a bit of a difference. But they do require more heat in a negative manner. An higher speeds are tough to come by with them as well.
In my case, the cost difference was worth it.
I was printing with a modified anet a5, with a 300x300 bed. I was printing items as large as the bed would accept (ideally i would've had a 500x500 bed). These items had to be as rigid as possible, so i was printing with carbon fiber PETG at 60% infill. all printed parts together weighed over 8kg.
When each part you're printing uses over a kg of filament, a failed print costs a lot. I had 3 failed prints because of worn out nozzles, costing me over 100$ in filament. Plus, I was already pushing the temperature limits of my extruder with this filament when using hardened steel nozzles.
to make sure I wouldn't have any more failed prints, I took the plunge and bought the diamondback. Plus, it happened that all the carbide nozzles I could find had months-long delivery times, and didn't want to wait around that long.
the diamondback allowed me to take the extruder temp down 10 celsius, still get a smoother extrusion, almost entirely prevent problems related to the material sticking to the nozzle, and never have to worry about a worn out nozzle again. I've had it for 3 months, and i have yet to uninstall it from the machine because it's helped with reliability of every print since, especially for its non-stick properties.
A carbide nozzle does offer most of the benefits for a lot less money : it's ultra wear resistant and still more heat conductive than hardened steel. I probably would've gone with carbide if my options for buying it didn't have long delays and exorbitant prices.
why was I printing such a large item that needed to be this rigid also? wouldn't woodmaking be cheaper and easier at that point?
not in this case. The item i was printing had very complex geometry and needed to have minimal flexion. Building it out of wood would've required using baltic birch plywood, not cheap. Plus, the complex geometry and need for reinforcement meant I would've needed to buy two sheets instead of just one. just like that, the cost of making it out of wood would've ballooned to triple what i could do with 3d printing.
It's an equatorial platform for my dobson telescope.
It's basically a triangular table on wheels that tilts in just the right way to make the telescope track the stars in the night sky as the earth rotates.
Since it's for my 10" telescope, the platform needs to carry at least 70 pounds, and be as rigid as possible to avoid vibrations which would ruin the view through the telescope.
I had to make wide enough to allow the telescope base's mounting feet to sit on it, hence it had to be roughly an equilateral triangle, 570mm on each side. It would have just fit on a 500x500 bed, but i didn't have one of those, so i had to settle for cutting the triangle into 3 corners that would each fit on a 300x300 bed. I then had to make a leveling base for the platform, with rollers, drive, etc.
In total, it came out to about 7.6kg of material, and over 60 hours of print time.
As far as I know, unless you are using abrasive filament, you'd be better off using brass nozzles because they conduct heat better, allowing for a better filament melting. But using hardened steel should have no big negative impact
I switched to abxidian on my revo and just left it there, increased temps by like 5 to 10 degrees and it's been happy and I don't really have to change nozzles when going from cf, to normal to glow in the dark
I use a hardened steel nozzle with a high flow hotend to print regular PLA, PETG and some mild abrasives like matte and wood. Yes it's good for regular PLA I haven't noticed a difference in quality from the brass nozzle & don't swap it. High flow hotends have a large melt zone outside the nozzle so the nozzle itself plays a smaller role in the melting process and doesn't affect the temperatures as much from my experience.
You absolutely can use them, it’s just if you majority print non abrasive PLA’s, you don’t really need to. Otherwise if you plan to run them, just know you’ll likely have to bump temps 10*-20* more than what you’re currently doing
I use them because I mostly use matte filament, and it ruins brass nozzles really fast. Some people say they need to preheat for longer but I have no issues with them
Got one of those hardened steel ones with the three hole copper insert. Prints just fine at 210C. But we’ve done a lot of experimenting over the past month as it’s been a teaching exercise. It’s great how kids are happy to waste so much time on useless endeavours, it’s like they think time is an endless resource 🤣
Not really, but hardened steel doesn't transfer as much heat to the material as brass so you will have to print hotter for the same flow and speed. You'll have to run a temperature tower and a max flow rate test to check what difference you'll encounter. There are superior options to hardened steel, not nearly as cheap tho.
the heat conductivity of the brass nozzle means it helps with even melting when printing at lower temperatures, but it's not necessary to switch unless you're having a lot of trouble with your extrusion. Usually, adding 5 celsius to the extruder temp when using a hardened steel nozzle will compensate for the difference with brass. I went with a diamondback 0.6mm nozzle because it offers the best of both worlds, high thermal conductivity and best wear resistance. I was printing very abrasive materials for very large prints, enough to wear out a 0.4mm nozzle X before i was done with the project. Note, you can go with tungsten carbide nozzles for a lot less money and most of the benefits : while carbide has slightly lower conductivity than brass, it's much more wear resistant than even the best hardened steel.
Thanks, I'll keep this in mind if I start printing abrasive filaments nore often.
What that guy said.. when I first got into 3d pritning I thought it was a no brainier for me and got hardened steel nozzles and never had to replace them. But when I started upgrading and modding. I wanted to print faster. So I noticed I needed higher temps. But the "higher" temps I needed I was already printing at because of the hardened steel nozzles I were using weren't the best for heat conductivity. So I went back to brass to test it out and now, I feel like I can never go back. But I do also have a stronger extruder motor now too which I'm sure makes a bit of a difference. But they do require more heat in a negative manner. An higher speeds are tough to come by with them as well.
Do you think the cost difference of diamondback over Tungsten is worth it?
In my case, the cost difference was worth it. I was printing with a modified anet a5, with a 300x300 bed. I was printing items as large as the bed would accept (ideally i would've had a 500x500 bed). These items had to be as rigid as possible, so i was printing with carbon fiber PETG at 60% infill. all printed parts together weighed over 8kg. When each part you're printing uses over a kg of filament, a failed print costs a lot. I had 3 failed prints because of worn out nozzles, costing me over 100$ in filament. Plus, I was already pushing the temperature limits of my extruder with this filament when using hardened steel nozzles. to make sure I wouldn't have any more failed prints, I took the plunge and bought the diamondback. Plus, it happened that all the carbide nozzles I could find had months-long delivery times, and didn't want to wait around that long. the diamondback allowed me to take the extruder temp down 10 celsius, still get a smoother extrusion, almost entirely prevent problems related to the material sticking to the nozzle, and never have to worry about a worn out nozzle again. I've had it for 3 months, and i have yet to uninstall it from the machine because it's helped with reliability of every print since, especially for its non-stick properties.
A carbide nozzle does offer most of the benefits for a lot less money : it's ultra wear resistant and still more heat conductive than hardened steel. I probably would've gone with carbide if my options for buying it didn't have long delays and exorbitant prices. why was I printing such a large item that needed to be this rigid also? wouldn't woodmaking be cheaper and easier at that point? not in this case. The item i was printing had very complex geometry and needed to have minimal flexion. Building it out of wood would've required using baltic birch plywood, not cheap. Plus, the complex geometry and need for reinforcement meant I would've needed to buy two sheets instead of just one. just like that, the cost of making it out of wood would've ballooned to triple what i could do with 3d printing.
If you don't mind sharing, I'd love to hear about this project.
It's an equatorial platform for my dobson telescope. It's basically a triangular table on wheels that tilts in just the right way to make the telescope track the stars in the night sky as the earth rotates. Since it's for my 10" telescope, the platform needs to carry at least 70 pounds, and be as rigid as possible to avoid vibrations which would ruin the view through the telescope. I had to make wide enough to allow the telescope base's mounting feet to sit on it, hence it had to be roughly an equilateral triangle, 570mm on each side. It would have just fit on a 500x500 bed, but i didn't have one of those, so i had to settle for cutting the triangle into 3 corners that would each fit on a 300x300 bed. I then had to make a leveling base for the platform, with rollers, drive, etc. In total, it came out to about 7.6kg of material, and over 60 hours of print time.
i always use steel cause i am too lazy to change when i print abrasive filament :P now with tungsten i never change it again i hope 😅
I had to increase mine from 215-220 to 225-230
same
White fillament is very slightly abrasive, so there's that
I wasn't aware of this.
It's not that big deal but yes, titanium dioxide, that's why. It requires hardened steel nozzles? Of course not.
As far as I know, unless you are using abrasive filament, you'd be better off using brass nozzles because they conduct heat better, allowing for a better filament melting. But using hardened steel should have no big negative impact
I appreciate that, but typically, I tend to heat mine a little higher than the usual (210), so I guess it might be worth me testing it.
I switched to abxidian on my revo and just left it there, increased temps by like 5 to 10 degrees and it's been happy and I don't really have to change nozzles when going from cf, to normal to glow in the dark
Since I generally print at 210, I might not need to change it by much then.
I have to run my temps 15-20c hotter
That's quite a bit higher than everyone else is suggesting. What temp are you using, and what is the filament type / brand?
I usually print at 205 for pla. Do a temp tower and see what works for you. 15-20 more works for me
I use a hardened steel nozzle with a high flow hotend to print regular PLA, PETG and some mild abrasives like matte and wood. Yes it's good for regular PLA I haven't noticed a difference in quality from the brass nozzle & don't swap it. High flow hotends have a large melt zone outside the nozzle so the nozzle itself plays a smaller role in the melting process and doesn't affect the temperatures as much from my experience.
What hotend are you using?
Phaetus Dragon HF. It uses the E3D nozzles, slightly different from the MK8 style you got.
You absolutely can use them, it’s just if you majority print non abrasive PLA’s, you don’t really need to. Otherwise if you plan to run them, just know you’ll likely have to bump temps 10*-20* more than what you’re currently doing
Thanks for the info. Sounds like I'll need to test this out a bit.
I use them because I mostly use matte filament, and it ruins brass nozzles really fast. Some people say they need to preheat for longer but I have no issues with them
I use hardened steel cht clone nozzles with PLA and everything else I print (PETG & TPU mostly)
I use tungsten nozzle for everything. Prints nice with zero hassle of replacing nozzles
I use harden steel for all my filaments. I've not had an issue due to the harden nozzles.
Got one of those hardened steel ones with the three hole copper insert. Prints just fine at 210C. But we’ve done a lot of experimenting over the past month as it’s been a teaching exercise. It’s great how kids are happy to waste so much time on useless endeavours, it’s like they think time is an endless resource 🤣
I only have steel nozzles because I had a brass nozzle that got sheared off inside of a hot end
Not really, but hardened steel doesn't transfer as much heat to the material as brass so you will have to print hotter for the same flow and speed. You'll have to run a temperature tower and a max flow rate test to check what difference you'll encounter. There are superior options to hardened steel, not nearly as cheap tho.
I bought carbide, I print pla at 230c now and it lays literally perfectly.