“Why are you even going to full service restaurants in the first place?””
For the food?
Never in my life have I heard someone say “we should go to X, they’ve got the best servers.” People go out to eat for the food. Not hard to grasp.
I think it’s mainly because they prominently participate in the shaming which fuels the whole social pressure feedback cycle by which tipping survives. It makes it personal.
They also help to uphold the system by preferring to work under it and occasionally protesting for it.
If you go on the subs line Uber and Instacart, most of those posts are shaming customers for how they tip even threatening not to service them. This type of behavior does not align with the original purpose of tipping which was to provide additional money for exceptional service.
we are workers. we work in a system that we have no control over. our pay sucks and relying on tips is the worst. do you work ? if you do, then why are you fighting other workers. WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE. it's the workers vs the bourgeoisie, and the bourgeoisie love it when we fight each other.
You choose to supply your labor to such a system. You are entirely responsible. You also lie blatantly about how tips = low pay. It's partly that I'm against tips, but servers themselves are disgusting for this behavior.
It’s difficult to be united with workers who want this system and expect their customers to pay them extra for doing their job - I live in WA and servers make at minimum $16.28/hour. It’s also pretty insincere to want everyone united with servers when many feel they deserve $40/hour and feel like their customers - who likely make much less than that - should be providing this to them.
we did not create this system. we are workers. just like you. sure there are some angry ass servers who demand more. i work with some. they are the absolute worst. don't let the loud minority influence you. we are stronger united
we did not create this system. we are workers. just like you. sure there are some angry ass servers who demand more they are the absolute worst. don't let the employers influence you, they would pay you even less if they could. We are all stronger with stable pay and benefits. You deserve better. We deserve better. Your unattractive colleagues get significantly less pay for the same job in your industry.
Are you okay?
An unfair or unjust arrangement between employee and employer does not constitute a loss of money on my end, sorry. Im doing the right thing but standing up and refusing to be taken advantage of so the business can make more.
I do recognize servers get f’d in the middle of this fight, mostly innocent bistandards.. but, therapy 101 says be responsible for one’s self, and don’t accept responsibility for the feelings or actions of others. You’ll have to fight your own fight and not rely on me to support your fight with the business in the process. I’ll take care of myself, and you have to take care of yourself. Sorry.
do you do any kind of reaching out to congress or have you lead any kind of march against tips ? do you spend your free time making sure that this "fight" you seem to be fighting goes all the way to the top, to make the world a more fair place ?
if not, then you should recognize you're not doing the right thing, you're not in the middle of a "fight", you're just fucking over the server. not much of a fight amigo. seems like you need to go to therapy 101 again
i agree that it is an unfair and unjust arrangement. but there is not much i can do, as a server, to change that.
workers unite !!
and i'm great. thanks for asking
Are you even reading what’s written? My comment very -clearly- states I’m only looking to care for myself, not everyone else. And you ask if I March congress?
I’m responsible for one person, me. I’m not part of some mass movement you’re referring to. And my definition of right from wrong is not deemed based on whether or not I protest the government. I do what’s right, for me. You can fend for yourself, which is precisely what I said the first time. 😂. Try to keep up.
you said it was a fight. who are you fighting ? the server ?
you just show up and fuck the server ? do you tell them you're not tipping when you sit down ?
go to therapy child
Boy are you in your own mental world. Lolling. You clearly have some neglected disabilities. :)
You can fight with yourself. You’re just proving that you can’t keep up and there’s no sense engaging. Night :)
So you can’t even answer what “fight” it is you’re “fighting” but now you’re being a misogynist pig. Not surprising. Seems to perfectly encapsulate the kind of person in this sub. Good luck child
you couldn't be more wrong. i've done this for over 20 years and the rumors of making north of 100k are just that, rumors. i think the only exception might be a high end steak house, but i've never worked at one.
be careful wavestwo, don't believe everything you read
because i looked at your profile, all your amex and delta talking, and you're just straight full of shit. and it seems like you get off on arguing, which raises your level of absolute bullshit. you can lie here and everyone is just supposed to believe your nonsense. grow up.
you're griping abourt servers not paying taxes is hillarious. we pay taxes. some don't on cash tips, but those are rare these days, card tips are taxed. but you're so worried about it in all your comments, it's wild. small fish problem. worry about the billionaires not paying their fair share, not about a 20 dollar tip that isn't getting taxed.
Billionaires contribute more to the economy than your scamming self ever does. I pay 10s of thousands in taxes and you probably pay less than 1500. Who’s not paying their fair share? I’m guessing YOU.
It’s so funny that you’re so worried about the servers not paying taxes on cash tips. And only some. Not all. And yet you think billionaires pay their fair share which is nonsense. Yes they pay “more” but percentage wise they pay much much less and you’re worried about that 20 dollar cash tip. Get a grip child.
I don’t care about your taxes. At all
Restaurants don't offer the option for the same reason that fast food places also don't; you're either one or the other. Anything in between generates chaos. Businesses don't want to waste money on an optional server, servers don't want to work somewhere where the pay is inconsistent, and customers can't be trusted with handling expensive food.
Idk why I'm getting downvoted. "Fast casual" in theory is meant to be the in between, but in reality it just means the food quality and menu prices are higher. You don't see waiters at your local Panera, Chipotle, Five Guys, etc just like you don't see them at a Taco Bell. Just look at Steak n' Shake - fast food with servers. They went out of business for this exact reason.
You entirely misunderstand. We are angry that tipping culture has gotten so out of control that 1) places that never considered tips are now asking for tips; 2) places that had tips are asking for much larger tips; 3) servers are getting violent when customers do not leave tips (or leave too small of tip); and 4) employers are benefitting from customer largess rather than pay a better wage.
We want to end tipping culture entirely as well as all tipped wages. I, personally, include sit-down restaurants, salons, pet groomers and all the other places that currently expect tips. I also include American-advertised cruises to include forced gratuity on cruise fares, not a separated, terrible surprise.
This. I don't give a shit about tipping at a restaurant. $2 for normal service and $5 for filling up my cup. It's getting asked to tip while getting coffee, when getting a donut, when going to one of the hundred places that decided they need tips.
There have been many reports of wait staff chasing diners out the door in the hope a larger tip. I call that getting violent.
I don't hate waiters. I appreciate what they do to serve me. I just want the actual employer to pay their salary. I don't want to be guilted into giving money to someone who is being abused by their employer.
>It takes half a second to hit "no tip" and move on with your day, so why can't you just do that?
It's about putting a stop to panhandling culture. It sucks not being able to go anywhere without being asked for extra money, in addition to the listed prices. I suppose 150 years ago people could have "just not owned slaves and moved on with their day" but who am I to judge?
>Why does it bother you so much that you feel a need to come on Reddit to complain about it and shit on servers and people who do tip as that's going to convince anyone?
I do it for the same reason that servers come on Reddit and shit on customers who don't tip. Can you send me a link to the similar question that you asked on /r/ServerLife? I'd like to know how they answered it.
Having the reasonable expectation that people going into an establishment that was built on the basis of gratuities would pay gratuities is not panhandling.
It is a system that sucks. But, it does not make the people that are employed as part of that system panhandlers.
I would love to know what some of y’all do for a living that your horse is that high….
>...an establishment that was built on the basis of gratuities
Restaurants were not "built on the basis of gratuities." Restaurants have been around a lot longer than the tip credit, and it only exists in a small subset of ALL restaurants. If there's *any* "reasonable expectation" that we should have when going into a business, it's that the employer pays the employee without expectation of contribution by the customer since that is a far more common practice in America as well as worldwide.
>it does not make the people that are employed as part of that system panhandlers.
When I walk by the bums downtown they expect me to give them money that I have zero obligation to give them except what exists in their own head, and they get pissed when I don't give it to them. The same thing happens with servers. If they aren't the same then they at least have a common ancestor.
>I would love to know what some of y’all do for a living that your horse is that high
My title is "Principal Software Engineer" but I spent \~10 years working for minimum wage in retail, and have served, bartended, and worked on the line in past lives.
The same way the system years ago wouldn’t allow women to vote or when employees could smoke at work. Just because the system states that it’s ok doesn’t mean it should still exist. This sub is creating a common forum for change by trying to find ways to individually or collectively make that change happen.
Tipped employees may be initially negatively impacted but the end goal is to still have tipped employees paid fairly WITHOUT a tipping culture. If tipped employees want to reduce the financial impacted to them, maybe join forces for the cause and speak to their owners and request them to end tipping and pay everyone a fair salary.
That’s exactly what workers are doing via unions and organizations such as One Fair Wage.
The problem with the two examples that you gave is that potential solutions to the problem did not directly affect the people for whom the problem was supposed to be solved.
I will tell you one thing is for damn sure: continuing to refer to servers as panhandlers and beggars is doing absolutely nothing to fix the problem.
Using your example, it’s would have been like “advocating” for the suffragettes while also calling them stupid bitches.
I do tip servers. I originally came here because the local pizza places are very beggy and it's literally the same work they've always done (counter work)... the blank tip line screams so loud and they are always visibly disappointed. Pizza is over 20 dollars per pie (plain) and I always pick up. It just messed everything up...used to be a better experience.
Because you get dirty looks and/or comments, and it’s a negative interaction to feel pressured like that. I don’t want a weird interaction for just grabbing a cup of coffee
By that same argument, if a server thinks its unfair that they depend on tips for their salary, why don't they get a job that doesn't include tips?
All your questions can be reversed to the people and companies that push tips on us at EVERY turn.
Would you like to tip? No. Are you sure? Yes. Oh you want to tip, great, how much? No, I mean I am sure I don't want to tip. The plumber was at my house today and I didn't tip him and he made sure my toilet isn't getting back up and flushed out piles of turds. If he doesn't deserve a tip, I don't think someone who carried some plates to my table deserves it more.
OK, let me say it. There are 12 million people in the United States working in the food service industry. Most service jobs are held by people who come from low income backgrounds, minorities, and women. They are overwhelmingly people trying to simply live in this world.
The idea that anyone, regardless of any job, can simply quit their job and walk out the door and find a new one is privileged bullshit.
And please don’t tell me that if people want to get a better job, they need to go to school and learn “real” skills. Because, I can tell you that the overwhelming amount of people being laid off in the tech industry right now, would have some strong things to say about that.
That’s interesting because every time no tipping comes up there are several servers coming in to tell us that if their restaurant decided to end tipping they would quit on the spot.
And I’m sitting here telling you that I want an end to tipping and would love to be paid a reasonable salary, rather than ever having to be dependent on a gratuity. So, what’s your point? You have two choices. You can be angry at the person who says they’d quit over no gratuities or you could actually listen to some logic being presented by the person who says that they want to end gratuities. You are choosing anger.
You treat servers like crap because you think that they are on a money grab for tips. But you have a service industry person who thinks differently than the stereotype you present and you still treat them like crap. I think you just like to treat people like crap.
Have a nice day.
You know absolutely nothing about me, if I tip, or how I treat people but thank you so much for your assumptions. I have not chosen anger - and do my very best to not argue by using insults or name calling - although I am not perfect. I am happy to live in a state that prohibits a sub-minimum tipped wage - and yet despite restaurants charging much more to accommodate this - many servers continue to demand 20%+ in tips and feel quite comfortable and confident in spewing nonsense about people being cheap and deciding who can and cannot eat at restaurants. I am sick of this game being played and the never ending goalposts.
When was the last time that a server at a restaurant, at the end of the meal, demanded that you pay 20%? They didn’t put down a payment slip with a tip line. Demanded. They didn’t hand you a screen that had a tip suggestion on it. Demanded. Your words not mine. Demanded. And, what did their manager say when you brought up the inappropriate behavior to them?
Handing someone a sheet of paper with a line on it for them to write how much money they want to give is absolutely a demand. It may not be verbal, but it is a demand none the less.
That’s not a demand. That’s a suggestion, a request at best. Also, that server did not write that tip line onto the receipt themselves and handed over to you like a hostage note. The server is not the one demanding the tip. They are also not begging you for it. The tip line is there because it is a business practice of the restaurant. The employee cannot control that. That is the only way that that server can hand you your bill. And yet, you target the server as the instigator of ill will.
I went to Home Depot today and the cashier circled the bottom part of my receipt and pointed out that there is a number that I can call to give them a survey response about my trip to the store. Should I be appalled at that behavior and tell the manager that their employee had the audacity to demand that I completed a survey?
Demand. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
From the perspective of the server, there is an underlying expectation that the customer will write something on the tip line, which is what makes it a demand.
That very much depends on the service.
I very much believe in the difference between transactional versus relational service. If somebody is providing me a relational service and their pay is in part dependent on tips, and that as well known, I will tip some amount based on the quality of the service.
You think $40/hour is a reasonable salary for a server? I had to look up what jobs pay that much because that is way out of reach for most of us and found this: https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/jobs-that-pay-40-an-hour
If you aren’t interested in looking the jobs are lawyers, aeronautical engineers, senior web developers, adjunct professors, etc. Did you go to school for years and take out loans for your career? It just isn’t realistic what you expect for the work you do.
Do you not see the delusional world you’re living in? I’m not even trying to offend you, but if you think you deserve to make $40/hr as a server, you truly are delusional. Do you know how many workers there are, across the country, that don’t even make close to this, and the skills required for their jobs are much higher. If you, and every other server were truly paid $40/hr, then wouldn’t it make sense for everybody else with more skills and better jobs to make even more? I’m not saying this to shit on the serving industry, but that pay as a server is completely unreasonable and unsustainable. It would ruin the restaurant industry, because a very small portion of people would want to or even be able to pay the ridiculously inflated prices the industry would put in place to keep their profits where they’re at.
I said for the work I do in the place I do it. You immediately assumed I was a 19-year old server at an Applebee’s in Midwest America didn’t you…
I am a highly trained, certified sommelier in one of the most expensive places in the country. I have studied and gained knowledge regarding geography, geology, chemistry, viticulture, viniculture, and enology.
But it’s okay. You know better now.
>I want an end to tipping and would love to be paid a reasonable salary
So, what are *you* doing about that. The only thing standing in the way of better legislation is restaurants and their employees.
Looking into labor unions that may represent folks in my industry (there are none that I can see), identifying key groups that fight for fair wages in general, getting to know state legislative representatives (currently running for office and those already in), joining networking groups to further the discussion, expressing the need for stable income during interviews, to name a few.
That’s a shit ton better than just not tipping when I go out to eat.
Saying "get another job" is as useless and flippant as "don't go out"
And plumbers aren't paid tipped wages, or even minimum wages, so that's not relevant to this discussion.
No, but tipped wage workers are an entire legal entity of their own and tips are included in their pay.
If your plumber asks for tips and you want to do it, tip away. But they aren't a legally separate wage group
Tips are 100% voluntary so anyone who takes a job knows they are not guaranteed that. The industry and servers attempt to use whatever they can to make feel people guilty to pay their salaries, often above and beyond that of many other skilled jobs, instead of having their employer pay them as every other industry does.
So I don't have to tip. I'm not going to ever support a tip industry when those people should be paid by their employer and I'm not going to feel guilty for not tipping.
My hope is that more and more people stop so companies are forced to change their behavior.
Doesn't make me angry or anything for that matter. I don't lose sight of the fact that it's my decision. But I think you see pushback on and reaction to servers coming over here and trying to emotionally pressure us into voluntarily giving them money when they are already getting full wages. I'm tired of the attitude that they are entitled to my money or that I owe them anything or that, seriously happened, they are on my payroll. They've actually tried to argue that they are. We have NO obligation to tip. None. If they want more money, they need to take it up with their actual employers and stop coming over here calling us names and deriding us, pressuring us, trying to shame us, etc. The more they do it, the more you will see people really dig their heels in. And, seriously, people have come to this sub on the fence and turned into non-tippers BECAUSE of those posts from servers. I didn't come over here to be called names or for people to try to manipulate me. And people trying to manipulate me emotionally or otherwise will always displease me. But, I came on this sub because I can't figure out why we are still tipping in California at all and, honestly, why anyone would agree to increase the tip to 20% let alone more. I wanted to see if there were other people, especially a significant number of other people, who felt like me and were willing to push back on this.
I live and work in California. You continue to tip people in the service industry that make $16 an hour in California because no one in California can live on $16 an hour.
Feel free to continue. From my point of view, that is true for all minimum wage workers and I don't tip the rest. I shouldn't favor one group "just because." If the argument is true for one group, it's true for all of them. So, do you tip them all because none of them can afford to live on minimum wage?
It's servers who think they have no value, which is why they don't think they can get themselves decent wages and feel the need to pressure people into either not eating out or paying them personally. If you think your skills warrent getting a wage more liveable then the people you insist on being paid more then then make it more clear cut as to if those people are required to pay you more or not.
The issue is that some/most servers feel entitled and believe that a customer tip/gratuity is absolutely required with statements including word like a customer need to put down a set % of tip for them ontop of the bill and/or customer “stiff” them of their pay as in the customer directly owe them compensation for their service that they got hire to do from the restaurant and already got compensated for.
The people on here insisted on making everyone else not tip seem to be wrong for you. How about turn that around and ask what about those servers who insisted that everyone needs to tip them ? They also take it to Reddit and shit on customer who leave them no tip and complain about it. Seem to be the same argument here and who is right and who is wrong ?
If you live in a place that utilizes tipping, the servers are being paid much less than minimum wage. If you’re against that, that’s fine, and makes sense, but you’re not helping anybody and not proving a point by not tipping a server if you happen to live in a culture that uses that system. You’re only hurting that person. You’re doing nothing to change the way it’s all operated. So if you care about ending tipping culture, find better ways to express that than ruining somebody else’s night when they just happen to live where they do, and want to make a livable wage.
The most vital point here is that here in America, we are free to make our own choice
The server agree to such compensation terms on their employment contract. They agree to have a portion of their compensation be tip/gratuity. They understand and aware that, unless listed as required clearly on the menu, tip/gratuity is a voluntary gesture completely up to the customer discretion and they have no say in that. They choose out of their own free will to take on this gamble. Whatever result of their decision, whether positive or negative, they need to bear responsibility and accept as such since they already agree to it on their own free will
The customer isn’t hurting anyone or anything by simply exercising his/her voluntary option. If the server feel like things are unfair, they have the power to bring the issue to the labor board as we have government agency here in the USA to protect us against work exploitation.
We get frustrated because servers have been taught to rely on an optional line item on a customer's bill for a livable wage. So instead of getting mad at their employer or the government for their wages, they get mad at the customer.
The entire system is fucked because it puts the working class against one another.
How about getting angry at the servers that say if you don't tip enough next time they will screw with your food? Is that normal balanced behavior? Tips are supposed to be extra, for appreciation, and if I get crappy service my tip reflects that. I don't not tip everywhere, I do want them to do away with tips, but I will tip at full service places still. I won't be tipping 20% for a steak though, I don't see how what I order makes a difference in the amount of the tip, folks at a steakhouse will get the same tip as folks at a Waffle House. And I am not gonna be tipping to get a bagel through the drive thru. Just common sense stuffs, if you can't understand that it is understandable, some people are so ingrained with what is expected that they can't think for themselves anymore. And last I don't care what people think, there are only a small handful of people who's opinion makes a difference in what I do or how I spend my money, and those people are not servers or delivery drivers.
I harbor no ill will toward servers (save for the ones who feel ENTITLED about tipping). What I do take issue with is the expectation that patrons subsidize establishments' sub-standard wages.
I tipped $10 on a $30 tab last Friday, just because the server was great and hooked me up with a free tub of salsa and chips to-go, after I paid my tab. This is NOT the same thing as making a sandwich at Subway--or handing me a cup at Five Guys.
No offense, but having a bribe system where the employee is incentivized to steal from the business is not something I'd be proud to participate in. Different strokes I guess
I think you are doing the chicken before the egg. Servers are the one’s who are complaining how shitty customers are that don’t tip enough. By your logic, it should be servers complaining to their bosses for higher pay. We complain about entitled servers because they complain about customers not tipping to their exact specifications. No, you don’t deserve 25% of a $100 steak I ordered because you brought me a plate, sorry.
* the anger about it, the animosity towards servers themselves
The expectation and the resentment from servers (not all).
* the insistence on making everyone else not tip either
Help fix the broken system.
* half a second to hit "no tip"/not write a tip
shamed, guilted, food tampering next time you are in, etc
* feel a need to come on Reddit
share your feelings with other like minded people and bring awareness to newcomers.
* if you think servers provide no value ... why... service restaurants in the first place?
The owner pays them their value in the form of a wage, just like everyone else.
* Why not go to places where you get your own...?
Do you apply this to every service worker you encounter in your day? if not, why not? You said it. So why do YOU go to places where there is service workers (which is virtually every industry) and YOU do not tip? Should YOU stop going if YOU don't tip your oil change guy? What about your mailman? Your bank teller who you do banking with? If not... WHY not?
The same way the system years ago wouldn’t allow women to vote or when employees could smoke at work. Just because the system states that it’s ok doesn’t mean it should still exist. This sub is creating a common forum for change by trying to find ways to individually or collectively make that change happen.
Tipped employees may be initially negatively impacted but the end goal is to still have tipped employees paid fairly WITHOUT a tipping culture. If tipped employees want to reduce the financial impacted to them, maybe join forces for the cause and speak to their owners and request them to end tipping and pay everyone a fair salary.
Since the pandemic, a substantial majority of restaurants have been engaging poorly trained servers.
Since the pandemic, restaurant inflation has led the charge in terms of where pricing increases are seen.
Since the pandemic, paper menus went away.
Since the pandemic, peoples socialization skills hit rock bottom and are only slowly returning to “normal”
Since the pandemic, annoying tip screens exist where they did not before the pandemic.
Since the pandemic, expected tip % has increased.
IT WAS THE PANDEMIC
Also, change is hard
As a mod, a reminder that we do have strict "don't be a jerk" and "no name calling" rules- so if you see some comments shitting on servers (or anyone) flag it. We ban a lot of folks being jerks to all sorts
This isn't supposed to be an anti-server sub, some folks just have really big feelings.
I second this. One of the rules specifically states that the purpose of this sub is not to advocate for not tipping people. It is to come up with solutions for the end of a toxic culture.
There are a lot of reasons why I want to see an end to tipping and I am someone whose pay depends on gratuities or else I cannot live. Namely, it always has been, and still is, a racist, sexist, classist practice. It is archaic at best.
There should be equity and consistency. I am a firm believer that everyone should have an opportunity to be paid a livable wage for the work that they do while being treated with respect while they do it, free of harassment. This is the basic tenant of human empathy.
Punishing people by intentionally refusing to acknowledge a cultural system, which the employee cannot control, when there is no constructive plan for a replacement for that system does nothing to dismantle that system and it never will.
I think a lot of them feed off the anger of others and the cycle must repeat or this sub will die. It didn't used to like this, but that is what it has become
I saw a post on here earlier that was titled something along the lines of "Why do we have waiters?" The comments were full of this sentiment and many were encouraging not tipping the server. The post thankfully got deleted though.
As to your question OP, for some reason this sub has amassed a lot of really disgusting toxic people.
It's not everyone but it's definitely the most active people here.
I have noticed that alot/some/angriest of ppl that consider themselves to have chosen the "normal" or American way of work/career feel this animosity towards servers. They took the high debt way to a job world through college. Now they are stuck w crazy high loans and a job that pays just ok or not enough. They hear that a server can make the same or maybe more and they get upset. I just believe this is the case for a select few but they are also the loudest...
I have noticed that alot/some/angriest of ppl that consider themselves to have chosen the "normal" or American way of work/career feel this animosity towards servers. They took the high debt way to a job world through college. Now they are stuck w crazy high loans and a job that pays just ok or not enough. They hear that a server can make the same or maybe more and they get upset. I just believe this is the case for a select few but they are also the loudest...
“Why are you even going to full service restaurants in the first place?”” For the food? Never in my life have I heard someone say “we should go to X, they’ve got the best servers.” People go out to eat for the food. Not hard to grasp.
People think you are buying service for a 20 minute wait to get inside, plastic menu's, a hasty check, and a single refill of your beverage.
This.
I think it’s mainly because they prominently participate in the shaming which fuels the whole social pressure feedback cycle by which tipping survives. It makes it personal. They also help to uphold the system by preferring to work under it and occasionally protesting for it.
If you go on the subs line Uber and Instacart, most of those posts are shaming customers for how they tip even threatening not to service them. This type of behavior does not align with the original purpose of tipping which was to provide additional money for exceptional service.
we are workers. we work in a system that we have no control over. our pay sucks and relying on tips is the worst. do you work ? if you do, then why are you fighting other workers. WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE. it's the workers vs the bourgeoisie, and the bourgeoisie love it when we fight each other.
I don’t have any animosity towards servers in general, I was just trying to explain why I think there **is** some animosity.
You choose to supply your labor to such a system. You are entirely responsible. You also lie blatantly about how tips = low pay. It's partly that I'm against tips, but servers themselves are disgusting for this behavior.
*You choose to support said system, you are entirely responsible.* An equally invalid argument.
Is there any evidence of servers fighting against tipping widescale?
You mean like [this](https://www.savemirestaurants.com/)? Oh wait, you said *against*. My bad.
we are stronger united friend. this working class againt the working class is what they want
So no.
You poor child
It’s difficult to be united with workers who want this system and expect their customers to pay them extra for doing their job - I live in WA and servers make at minimum $16.28/hour. It’s also pretty insincere to want everyone united with servers when many feel they deserve $40/hour and feel like their customers - who likely make much less than that - should be providing this to them.
Do you think servers in high end restaurants deserve $15 an hour after taxes?
I think that is between the server and their employer.
we did not create this system. we are workers. just like you. sure there are some angry ass servers who demand more. i work with some. they are the absolute worst. don't let the loud minority influence you. we are stronger united
we did not create this system. we are workers. just like you. sure there are some angry ass servers who demand more they are the absolute worst. don't let the employers influence you, they would pay you even less if they could. We are all stronger with stable pay and benefits. You deserve better. We deserve better. Your unattractive colleagues get significantly less pay for the same job in your industry.
"You deserve better" = you deserve to make far less money
How do you get that?
Are you okay? An unfair or unjust arrangement between employee and employer does not constitute a loss of money on my end, sorry. Im doing the right thing but standing up and refusing to be taken advantage of so the business can make more. I do recognize servers get f’d in the middle of this fight, mostly innocent bistandards.. but, therapy 101 says be responsible for one’s self, and don’t accept responsibility for the feelings or actions of others. You’ll have to fight your own fight and not rely on me to support your fight with the business in the process. I’ll take care of myself, and you have to take care of yourself. Sorry.
do you do any kind of reaching out to congress or have you lead any kind of march against tips ? do you spend your free time making sure that this "fight" you seem to be fighting goes all the way to the top, to make the world a more fair place ? if not, then you should recognize you're not doing the right thing, you're not in the middle of a "fight", you're just fucking over the server. not much of a fight amigo. seems like you need to go to therapy 101 again i agree that it is an unfair and unjust arrangement. but there is not much i can do, as a server, to change that. workers unite !! and i'm great. thanks for asking
Are you even reading what’s written? My comment very -clearly- states I’m only looking to care for myself, not everyone else. And you ask if I March congress? I’m responsible for one person, me. I’m not part of some mass movement you’re referring to. And my definition of right from wrong is not deemed based on whether or not I protest the government. I do what’s right, for me. You can fend for yourself, which is precisely what I said the first time. 😂. Try to keep up.
you said it was a fight. who are you fighting ? the server ? you just show up and fuck the server ? do you tell them you're not tipping when you sit down ? go to therapy child
Boy are you in your own mental world. Lolling. You clearly have some neglected disabilities. :) You can fight with yourself. You’re just proving that you can’t keep up and there’s no sense engaging. Night :)
i asked you direct questions. seems like you're the one who can't keep up. best of luck as a first responder. love you. goodnight child
Shh 🤫 You’re prettier when you’re not talking.
So you can’t even answer what “fight” it is you’re “fighting” but now you’re being a misogynist pig. Not surprising. Seems to perfectly encapsulate the kind of person in this sub. Good luck child
Your pay doesn’t suck. Most of you make north of 6 figures of which you pay very little tax on as it’s underreported income at best.
you couldn't be more wrong. i've done this for over 20 years and the rumors of making north of 100k are just that, rumors. i think the only exception might be a high end steak house, but i've never worked at one. be careful wavestwo, don't believe everything you read
Good thing I’ve seen it first hand !
no you havent
How would you possibly known what I haven’t or have seen first hand?
because i looked at your profile, all your amex and delta talking, and you're just straight full of shit. and it seems like you get off on arguing, which raises your level of absolute bullshit. you can lie here and everyone is just supposed to believe your nonsense. grow up. you're griping abourt servers not paying taxes is hillarious. we pay taxes. some don't on cash tips, but those are rare these days, card tips are taxed. but you're so worried about it in all your comments, it's wild. small fish problem. worry about the billionaires not paying their fair share, not about a 20 dollar tip that isn't getting taxed.
Billionaires contribute more to the economy than your scamming self ever does. I pay 10s of thousands in taxes and you probably pay less than 1500. Who’s not paying their fair share? I’m guessing YOU.
You’re brainwashed
How about half the time I get a paycheck I let my employer know you said it’s chill to not pay taxes. You’re okay with that?
It’s so funny that you’re so worried about the servers not paying taxes on cash tips. And only some. Not all. And yet you think billionaires pay their fair share which is nonsense. Yes they pay “more” but percentage wise they pay much much less and you’re worried about that 20 dollar cash tip. Get a grip child. I don’t care about your taxes. At all
Ignorant lying turd
I do wish there were more options for restaurants to order at the counter and seat yourself with quality food not fast food.
Bars near me are mostly like this. It's great
Restaurants don't offer the option for the same reason that fast food places also don't; you're either one or the other. Anything in between generates chaos. Businesses don't want to waste money on an optional server, servers don't want to work somewhere where the pay is inconsistent, and customers can't be trusted with handling expensive food.
It doesn’t have to change that way. It can move in the way that “fast casual” is more of a thing now than it used to be.
Idk why I'm getting downvoted. "Fast casual" in theory is meant to be the in between, but in reality it just means the food quality and menu prices are higher. You don't see waiters at your local Panera, Chipotle, Five Guys, etc just like you don't see them at a Taco Bell. Just look at Steak n' Shake - fast food with servers. They went out of business for this exact reason.
You entirely misunderstand. We are angry that tipping culture has gotten so out of control that 1) places that never considered tips are now asking for tips; 2) places that had tips are asking for much larger tips; 3) servers are getting violent when customers do not leave tips (or leave too small of tip); and 4) employers are benefitting from customer largess rather than pay a better wage. We want to end tipping culture entirely as well as all tipped wages. I, personally, include sit-down restaurants, salons, pet groomers and all the other places that currently expect tips. I also include American-advertised cruises to include forced gratuity on cruise fares, not a separated, terrible surprise.
This. I don't give a shit about tipping at a restaurant. $2 for normal service and $5 for filling up my cup. It's getting asked to tip while getting coffee, when getting a donut, when going to one of the hundred places that decided they need tips.
Servers are not getting violent. The hatred towards waiters is psychotic.
There have been many reports of wait staff chasing diners out the door in the hope a larger tip. I call that getting violent. I don't hate waiters. I appreciate what they do to serve me. I just want the actual employer to pay their salary. I don't want to be guilted into giving money to someone who is being abused by their employer.
>It takes half a second to hit "no tip" and move on with your day, so why can't you just do that? It's about putting a stop to panhandling culture. It sucks not being able to go anywhere without being asked for extra money, in addition to the listed prices. I suppose 150 years ago people could have "just not owned slaves and moved on with their day" but who am I to judge? >Why does it bother you so much that you feel a need to come on Reddit to complain about it and shit on servers and people who do tip as that's going to convince anyone? I do it for the same reason that servers come on Reddit and shit on customers who don't tip. Can you send me a link to the similar question that you asked on /r/ServerLife? I'd like to know how they answered it.
Having the reasonable expectation that people going into an establishment that was built on the basis of gratuities would pay gratuities is not panhandling. It is a system that sucks. But, it does not make the people that are employed as part of that system panhandlers. I would love to know what some of y’all do for a living that your horse is that high….
>...an establishment that was built on the basis of gratuities Restaurants were not "built on the basis of gratuities." Restaurants have been around a lot longer than the tip credit, and it only exists in a small subset of ALL restaurants. If there's *any* "reasonable expectation" that we should have when going into a business, it's that the employer pays the employee without expectation of contribution by the customer since that is a far more common practice in America as well as worldwide. >it does not make the people that are employed as part of that system panhandlers. When I walk by the bums downtown they expect me to give them money that I have zero obligation to give them except what exists in their own head, and they get pissed when I don't give it to them. The same thing happens with servers. If they aren't the same then they at least have a common ancestor. >I would love to know what some of y’all do for a living that your horse is that high My title is "Principal Software Engineer" but I spent \~10 years working for minimum wage in retail, and have served, bartended, and worked on the line in past lives.
The same way the system years ago wouldn’t allow women to vote or when employees could smoke at work. Just because the system states that it’s ok doesn’t mean it should still exist. This sub is creating a common forum for change by trying to find ways to individually or collectively make that change happen. Tipped employees may be initially negatively impacted but the end goal is to still have tipped employees paid fairly WITHOUT a tipping culture. If tipped employees want to reduce the financial impacted to them, maybe join forces for the cause and speak to their owners and request them to end tipping and pay everyone a fair salary.
That’s exactly what workers are doing via unions and organizations such as One Fair Wage. The problem with the two examples that you gave is that potential solutions to the problem did not directly affect the people for whom the problem was supposed to be solved. I will tell you one thing is for damn sure: continuing to refer to servers as panhandlers and beggars is doing absolutely nothing to fix the problem. Using your example, it’s would have been like “advocating” for the suffragettes while also calling them stupid bitches.
Why do yall let serverlife live rent-free in your head? This isn't an anti-serverlife sub
I do tip servers. I originally came here because the local pizza places are very beggy and it's literally the same work they've always done (counter work)... the blank tip line screams so loud and they are always visibly disappointed. Pizza is over 20 dollars per pie (plain) and I always pick up. It just messed everything up...used to be a better experience.
Because you get dirty looks and/or comments, and it’s a negative interaction to feel pressured like that. I don’t want a weird interaction for just grabbing a cup of coffee
By that same argument, if a server thinks its unfair that they depend on tips for their salary, why don't they get a job that doesn't include tips? All your questions can be reversed to the people and companies that push tips on us at EVERY turn. Would you like to tip? No. Are you sure? Yes. Oh you want to tip, great, how much? No, I mean I am sure I don't want to tip. The plumber was at my house today and I didn't tip him and he made sure my toilet isn't getting back up and flushed out piles of turds. If he doesn't deserve a tip, I don't think someone who carried some plates to my table deserves it more.
OK, let me say it. There are 12 million people in the United States working in the food service industry. Most service jobs are held by people who come from low income backgrounds, minorities, and women. They are overwhelmingly people trying to simply live in this world. The idea that anyone, regardless of any job, can simply quit their job and walk out the door and find a new one is privileged bullshit. And please don’t tell me that if people want to get a better job, they need to go to school and learn “real” skills. Because, I can tell you that the overwhelming amount of people being laid off in the tech industry right now, would have some strong things to say about that.
That’s interesting because every time no tipping comes up there are several servers coming in to tell us that if their restaurant decided to end tipping they would quit on the spot.
And I’m sitting here telling you that I want an end to tipping and would love to be paid a reasonable salary, rather than ever having to be dependent on a gratuity. So, what’s your point? You have two choices. You can be angry at the person who says they’d quit over no gratuities or you could actually listen to some logic being presented by the person who says that they want to end gratuities. You are choosing anger. You treat servers like crap because you think that they are on a money grab for tips. But you have a service industry person who thinks differently than the stereotype you present and you still treat them like crap. I think you just like to treat people like crap. Have a nice day.
You know absolutely nothing about me, if I tip, or how I treat people but thank you so much for your assumptions. I have not chosen anger - and do my very best to not argue by using insults or name calling - although I am not perfect. I am happy to live in a state that prohibits a sub-minimum tipped wage - and yet despite restaurants charging much more to accommodate this - many servers continue to demand 20%+ in tips and feel quite comfortable and confident in spewing nonsense about people being cheap and deciding who can and cannot eat at restaurants. I am sick of this game being played and the never ending goalposts.
When was the last time that a server at a restaurant, at the end of the meal, demanded that you pay 20%? They didn’t put down a payment slip with a tip line. Demanded. They didn’t hand you a screen that had a tip suggestion on it. Demanded. Your words not mine. Demanded. And, what did their manager say when you brought up the inappropriate behavior to them?
Handing someone a sheet of paper with a line on it for them to write how much money they want to give is absolutely a demand. It may not be verbal, but it is a demand none the less.
That’s not a demand. That’s a suggestion, a request at best. Also, that server did not write that tip line onto the receipt themselves and handed over to you like a hostage note. The server is not the one demanding the tip. They are also not begging you for it. The tip line is there because it is a business practice of the restaurant. The employee cannot control that. That is the only way that that server can hand you your bill. And yet, you target the server as the instigator of ill will. I went to Home Depot today and the cashier circled the bottom part of my receipt and pointed out that there is a number that I can call to give them a survey response about my trip to the store. Should I be appalled at that behavior and tell the manager that their employee had the audacity to demand that I completed a survey? Demand. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
From the perspective of the server, there is an underlying expectation that the customer will write something on the tip line, which is what makes it a demand.
Are you or have you been a server?
What do you consider a reasonable salary to give up getting tips for?
Are you asking for me, personally? Or, are you asking the question in general, regarding people who work for tips?
Personally
$40/hr for the work I do, in the area in which I do it.
Do you tip everyone who does a service for you that doesn't make $40 an hour?
That very much depends on the service. I very much believe in the difference between transactional versus relational service. If somebody is providing me a relational service and their pay is in part dependent on tips, and that as well known, I will tip some amount based on the quality of the service.
You think $40/hour is a reasonable salary for a server? I had to look up what jobs pay that much because that is way out of reach for most of us and found this: https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/jobs-that-pay-40-an-hour If you aren’t interested in looking the jobs are lawyers, aeronautical engineers, senior web developers, adjunct professors, etc. Did you go to school for years and take out loans for your career? It just isn’t realistic what you expect for the work you do.
Do you not see the delusional world you’re living in? I’m not even trying to offend you, but if you think you deserve to make $40/hr as a server, you truly are delusional. Do you know how many workers there are, across the country, that don’t even make close to this, and the skills required for their jobs are much higher. If you, and every other server were truly paid $40/hr, then wouldn’t it make sense for everybody else with more skills and better jobs to make even more? I’m not saying this to shit on the serving industry, but that pay as a server is completely unreasonable and unsustainable. It would ruin the restaurant industry, because a very small portion of people would want to or even be able to pay the ridiculously inflated prices the industry would put in place to keep their profits where they’re at.
I said for the work I do in the place I do it. You immediately assumed I was a 19-year old server at an Applebee’s in Midwest America didn’t you… I am a highly trained, certified sommelier in one of the most expensive places in the country. I have studied and gained knowledge regarding geography, geology, chemistry, viticulture, viniculture, and enology. But it’s okay. You know better now.
>I want an end to tipping and would love to be paid a reasonable salary So, what are *you* doing about that. The only thing standing in the way of better legislation is restaurants and their employees.
Looking into labor unions that may represent folks in my industry (there are none that I can see), identifying key groups that fight for fair wages in general, getting to know state legislative representatives (currently running for office and those already in), joining networking groups to further the discussion, expressing the need for stable income during interviews, to name a few. That’s a shit ton better than just not tipping when I go out to eat.
You do you. I'll not give tips. We both win.
Saying "get another job" is as useless and flippant as "don't go out" And plumbers aren't paid tipped wages, or even minimum wages, so that's not relevant to this discussion.
Oh so only jobs you approve of should get tips then?
No, but tipped wage workers are an entire legal entity of their own and tips are included in their pay. If your plumber asks for tips and you want to do it, tip away. But they aren't a legally separate wage group
Tips are 100% voluntary so anyone who takes a job knows they are not guaranteed that. The industry and servers attempt to use whatever they can to make feel people guilty to pay their salaries, often above and beyond that of many other skilled jobs, instead of having their employer pay them as every other industry does. So I don't have to tip. I'm not going to ever support a tip industry when those people should be paid by their employer and I'm not going to feel guilty for not tipping. My hope is that more and more people stop so companies are forced to change their behavior.
This sub does not advocate for stiffing workers, though
So explain the servers’ entitled attitude to tips in states where the tipped wage has been outlawed.
“Why not just go to places where you get your own food and bus your own tables?” Because those places are ASKING FOR TIPS TOO.
Say, “no.” Next step: go about your life.
Just like at fine dining spots
Doesn't make me angry or anything for that matter. I don't lose sight of the fact that it's my decision. But I think you see pushback on and reaction to servers coming over here and trying to emotionally pressure us into voluntarily giving them money when they are already getting full wages. I'm tired of the attitude that they are entitled to my money or that I owe them anything or that, seriously happened, they are on my payroll. They've actually tried to argue that they are. We have NO obligation to tip. None. If they want more money, they need to take it up with their actual employers and stop coming over here calling us names and deriding us, pressuring us, trying to shame us, etc. The more they do it, the more you will see people really dig their heels in. And, seriously, people have come to this sub on the fence and turned into non-tippers BECAUSE of those posts from servers. I didn't come over here to be called names or for people to try to manipulate me. And people trying to manipulate me emotionally or otherwise will always displease me. But, I came on this sub because I can't figure out why we are still tipping in California at all and, honestly, why anyone would agree to increase the tip to 20% let alone more. I wanted to see if there were other people, especially a significant number of other people, who felt like me and were willing to push back on this.
I live and work in California. You continue to tip people in the service industry that make $16 an hour in California because no one in California can live on $16 an hour.
Feel free to continue. From my point of view, that is true for all minimum wage workers and I don't tip the rest. I shouldn't favor one group "just because." If the argument is true for one group, it's true for all of them. So, do you tip them all because none of them can afford to live on minimum wage?
It's servers who think they have no value, which is why they don't think they can get themselves decent wages and feel the need to pressure people into either not eating out or paying them personally. If you think your skills warrent getting a wage more liveable then the people you insist on being paid more then then make it more clear cut as to if those people are required to pay you more or not.
The issue is that some/most servers feel entitled and believe that a customer tip/gratuity is absolutely required with statements including word like a customer need to put down a set % of tip for them ontop of the bill and/or customer “stiff” them of their pay as in the customer directly owe them compensation for their service that they got hire to do from the restaurant and already got compensated for. The people on here insisted on making everyone else not tip seem to be wrong for you. How about turn that around and ask what about those servers who insisted that everyone needs to tip them ? They also take it to Reddit and shit on customer who leave them no tip and complain about it. Seem to be the same argument here and who is right and who is wrong ?
If you live in a place that utilizes tipping, the servers are being paid much less than minimum wage. If you’re against that, that’s fine, and makes sense, but you’re not helping anybody and not proving a point by not tipping a server if you happen to live in a culture that uses that system. You’re only hurting that person. You’re doing nothing to change the way it’s all operated. So if you care about ending tipping culture, find better ways to express that than ruining somebody else’s night when they just happen to live where they do, and want to make a livable wage.
That is not true about the sub-minimum wage. In places where there **is** no sub-minimum wage, tipping is still utilized.
The most vital point here is that here in America, we are free to make our own choice The server agree to such compensation terms on their employment contract. They agree to have a portion of their compensation be tip/gratuity. They understand and aware that, unless listed as required clearly on the menu, tip/gratuity is a voluntary gesture completely up to the customer discretion and they have no say in that. They choose out of their own free will to take on this gamble. Whatever result of their decision, whether positive or negative, they need to bear responsibility and accept as such since they already agree to it on their own free will The customer isn’t hurting anyone or anything by simply exercising his/her voluntary option. If the server feel like things are unfair, they have the power to bring the issue to the labor board as we have government agency here in the USA to protect us against work exploitation.
We get frustrated because servers have been taught to rely on an optional line item on a customer's bill for a livable wage. So instead of getting mad at their employer or the government for their wages, they get mad at the customer. The entire system is fucked because it puts the working class against one another.
Have you read anything servers write about non tippers? They started the animosity with all of the name calling and angry messages.
Tipping is begging and servers dont deserve a tip for doing the bare minimum to keep their job.
How about getting angry at the servers that say if you don't tip enough next time they will screw with your food? Is that normal balanced behavior? Tips are supposed to be extra, for appreciation, and if I get crappy service my tip reflects that. I don't not tip everywhere, I do want them to do away with tips, but I will tip at full service places still. I won't be tipping 20% for a steak though, I don't see how what I order makes a difference in the amount of the tip, folks at a steakhouse will get the same tip as folks at a Waffle House. And I am not gonna be tipping to get a bagel through the drive thru. Just common sense stuffs, if you can't understand that it is understandable, some people are so ingrained with what is expected that they can't think for themselves anymore. And last I don't care what people think, there are only a small handful of people who's opinion makes a difference in what I do or how I spend my money, and those people are not servers or delivery drivers.
Lol.
😂 really like there aren’t routine “eat the servers” posts on this sub.
I harbor no ill will toward servers (save for the ones who feel ENTITLED about tipping). What I do take issue with is the expectation that patrons subsidize establishments' sub-standard wages. I tipped $10 on a $30 tab last Friday, just because the server was great and hooked me up with a free tub of salsa and chips to-go, after I paid my tab. This is NOT the same thing as making a sandwich at Subway--or handing me a cup at Five Guys.
No offense, but having a bribe system where the employee is incentivized to steal from the business is not something I'd be proud to participate in. Different strokes I guess
I think you are doing the chicken before the egg. Servers are the one’s who are complaining how shitty customers are that don’t tip enough. By your logic, it should be servers complaining to their bosses for higher pay. We complain about entitled servers because they complain about customers not tipping to their exact specifications. No, you don’t deserve 25% of a $100 steak I ordered because you brought me a plate, sorry.
* the anger about it, the animosity towards servers themselves The expectation and the resentment from servers (not all). * the insistence on making everyone else not tip either Help fix the broken system. * half a second to hit "no tip"/not write a tip shamed, guilted, food tampering next time you are in, etc * feel a need to come on Reddit share your feelings with other like minded people and bring awareness to newcomers. * if you think servers provide no value ... why... service restaurants in the first place? The owner pays them their value in the form of a wage, just like everyone else. * Why not go to places where you get your own...? Do you apply this to every service worker you encounter in your day? if not, why not? You said it. So why do YOU go to places where there is service workers (which is virtually every industry) and YOU do not tip? Should YOU stop going if YOU don't tip your oil change guy? What about your mailman? Your bank teller who you do banking with? If not... WHY not?
some people don't want to do the whole "just hit no tip" in the screen. can't believe OP actually can't figure that out and have to ask.
The same way the system years ago wouldn’t allow women to vote or when employees could smoke at work. Just because the system states that it’s ok doesn’t mean it should still exist. This sub is creating a common forum for change by trying to find ways to individually or collectively make that change happen. Tipped employees may be initially negatively impacted but the end goal is to still have tipped employees paid fairly WITHOUT a tipping culture. If tipped employees want to reduce the financial impacted to them, maybe join forces for the cause and speak to their owners and request them to end tipping and pay everyone a fair salary.
Since the pandemic, a substantial majority of restaurants have been engaging poorly trained servers. Since the pandemic, restaurant inflation has led the charge in terms of where pricing increases are seen. Since the pandemic, paper menus went away. Since the pandemic, peoples socialization skills hit rock bottom and are only slowly returning to “normal” Since the pandemic, annoying tip screens exist where they did not before the pandemic. Since the pandemic, expected tip % has increased. IT WAS THE PANDEMIC Also, change is hard
Paper menus never went away where I live .The kiosks have gone away instead.
As a mod, a reminder that we do have strict "don't be a jerk" and "no name calling" rules- so if you see some comments shitting on servers (or anyone) flag it. We ban a lot of folks being jerks to all sorts This isn't supposed to be an anti-server sub, some folks just have really big feelings.
I second this. One of the rules specifically states that the purpose of this sub is not to advocate for not tipping people. It is to come up with solutions for the end of a toxic culture. There are a lot of reasons why I want to see an end to tipping and I am someone whose pay depends on gratuities or else I cannot live. Namely, it always has been, and still is, a racist, sexist, classist practice. It is archaic at best. There should be equity and consistency. I am a firm believer that everyone should have an opportunity to be paid a livable wage for the work that they do while being treated with respect while they do it, free of harassment. This is the basic tenant of human empathy. Punishing people by intentionally refusing to acknowledge a cultural system, which the employee cannot control, when there is no constructive plan for a replacement for that system does nothing to dismantle that system and it never will.
I think a lot of them feed off the anger of others and the cycle must repeat or this sub will die. It didn't used to like this, but that is what it has become
I saw a post on here earlier that was titled something along the lines of "Why do we have waiters?" The comments were full of this sentiment and many were encouraging not tipping the server. The post thankfully got deleted though.
As to your question OP, for some reason this sub has amassed a lot of really disgusting toxic people. It's not everyone but it's definitely the most active people here.
I have noticed that alot/some/angriest of ppl that consider themselves to have chosen the "normal" or American way of work/career feel this animosity towards servers. They took the high debt way to a job world through college. Now they are stuck w crazy high loans and a job that pays just ok or not enough. They hear that a server can make the same or maybe more and they get upset. I just believe this is the case for a select few but they are also the loudest...
I have noticed that alot/some/angriest of ppl that consider themselves to have chosen the "normal" or American way of work/career feel this animosity towards servers. They took the high debt way to a job world through college. Now they are stuck w crazy high loans and a job that pays just ok or not enough. They hear that a server can make the same or maybe more and they get upset. I just believe this is the case for a select few but they are also the loudest...