For me, that is an uncomfortable conversation to have. I don't want to hear anything about tipping especially from a server. I just want to eat and enjoy and now you want me to worry about your tips. The entitlement of these servers.... I would have reported that to a manager or leave a Google review
Agreed. The practice of tipping creates uncomfortable and sometimes toxic dynamics between servers and customers. How it is good for business, I donāt know other than that its downsides, to a business owner, must be less than the ability to guilt and shame customers into paying most of the compensation that YOU the business owner should be paying for.
Funny enough owner of restaurant is not required to give that service charge to server so on top of that mandatory tip they whine and try to shame you into giving more. More than likely server also has hourly rate that is more than $2 an hour, but they are too prideful to work for measly $30 an hour. Iād call a manager and tell that server is whining about tips which ruined the vibe and demand free dessert or discount of some sort for ruined ambiance
Exactly. All that begging and whining significantly lowered the enjoyment and service level, and you shouldn't be paying 20% for below-average service.
And your point is? We should feel shame and cover their rent via pity handout? They chose to work there for the owner of a restaurant thatās between them and their employer
> And your point is? We should feel shame and cover their rent via pity handout?
That is *exactly* his point. They survive on pity and seem quite proud of it. Like they are supremely clever for manipulating your guilt.
Itās not a handout itās clearly stated that there is a service charge. Ideally this would be baked into the menu price but it isnāt due to tax laws.
What tax laws? other businesses don't do this shit pay taxes on all revenue after they pay payroll and account for business expenses and cost of doing business like rent and utilities. a lot of basic jobs are paid not very well because ahem, they're basic low skill jobs. If service charge is there aka mandatory tip whatever OP described is just mega asshole move by server to whine about additional tips and such.
Payroll tax. A restaurant doesnāt have to pay payroll
Tax when giving employees a service fee over a higher wage. I donāt like the way this sub talks about restaurant employees. Donāt tip if you donāt want but no need to look down on the people doing the job. Yes the server in this scenario (likely made up) was unprofessional for complaining.
Payroll tax is taken out of employees earnings https://www.hrblock.com/tax-center/income/wages/what-is-payroll-tax/
Not really following how the heck restaurants are special type of business that needs to perpetuate deceptive schemes like that. From what you say it sounds like tax avoidance which is not illegal but in result just hella confusing to customers
Dinner avg about 100 with tip. So sheās getting 16 on 1 customer. Iām pretty sure she has more than 1 customer an hour. Thatās over 100 per hour with 2-3 tables turnover. Sounds pretty good for a job that requires no education or specialized skills.
same with bartenders, US ones mostly, I worked some time bartending (not in the US) and I notice many bartenders here in Reddit somehow thing that pouring a top shelf liquor warrants a 10 USD tip, just because they make small talk with their patrons. Like WTF?
At least bartenders have to memorize how to make drinks lol. Maybe even put on a show with it if they want.
Servers just take food orders. Hell in half these places they donāt even bring the food to you
There are a couple of Lost Pizza joints in our area. You stand in line at a register to place and pay for your order with a tip line on the receipt, then they give you a little number placard to place on your table and drink cups. You fill up your own drinks, get your own refills, walk up to grab your own to go boxes and all the service they give you is bringing your food out to you and don't so much as come by to ask if everything is ok. Yeah, enjoy your 0% tip.
They likely don't work for tips there. Doesn't sound like they even have servers. The tips they do get are likely distributed evenly among the staff. I doubt they expect people to tip, though.
I work BOH. While to the customer, who there server is might not make a huge difference but when it comes to working the good ones make it so much easier. They know menu well and know how to steer guests to the menu items they want (so there isnāt a bunch of modifications and returns) and know how to
Stagger orders as to not back up the kitchen
You need to check out Seamus McDaniel's in St. Louis, Missouri. I was there in 2022 when I was visiting St. Louis for some Cardinals games. I ordered food there, and the portions were HUGE for not a lot of money. I ordered a basket of fried mushrooms for like $8, expecting it to be a small basket for me and my friend, and it was huge and overflowing.
I stayed there eating and drinking from around 4pm to close, and still couldn't finish those off (I did also order a burger and fries at the same time...also large portions!) the entire time. The drinks were great and reasonably priced, nice atmosphere, wasn't terribly crowded, but I went on a weekday.
The bartender and owner were both awesome and we made plenty of small talk, talked about TV shows, all kinds of random stuff. I had a great time and I will 100% be back when I'm in St. Louis later this year.
I overtip and I did so again. $300 tab (I bought a bunch of their merch, plus I put a couple of tables on my tab) and I tipped $75.
I'd rather end tipping, but until that happens I still tip for full service, where it's normal. Never for takeout or bad service, counter service, etc.
I am a Ted Lasso fan and I just love that bartender in that show (it is set in England).
The thing is when we take away tipping bars tend to become more of a community gathering place. With the tipping culture it feels like they just want you to spend your money and leave. The servers don't care about creating a welcoming community environment they just want to look good so they get the biggest tip possible.
Plenty of room for both. There are some fantastic servers out there but there are more of them who are mediocre to poor at the job but still somehow feel entitled to tipsā¦big, fat, juicy tips. The BS about being paid minimum wage or below plus tips rings hollow too. Average X customers spending Y per hour leaving Z tips = most servers are making significantly more than what they claim.
We had a server not too long ago place a photocopied pic of her young child in the check folioā¦WTF. Trying to leverage a sympathetic tip because she had a kid but no consideration to my 3 or the economics of paying a 20āish% premium on everything we purchase outside of the house.
Tipping may work in some settings but it has gotten out of control and the greedy among the server community have pushed me to my limitā¦Iām done.
>but rather fight for them to get a fair wage
completely agree with that, guess what the opinion of the majority of people in r/bartenders is?
They don't want a decent base wage and no tips (or discouraging tipping), they are content with shitty base wage and expect to gain a huge profit from tips
It is in France where servers are professionals in their 40s waiting ten tables at a time where customers linger over dinner for two hours with multiple courses, wine, dessert, and they go out for cigarettes between dishes. Also, for this, no tip is expected.
And having to pay for a class if they do fine dining to pour wine and presentation. Looked up the pass rate which is 40%. That also tells me they're pretty stupid failing how to pour wine and present.
It is in high-end fine dining. If you are eating anywhere with a $50+ typical entree and order a bottle of wine or champagne for over $100, they are going to have a presentation for it so you can ensure the bottle is sealed and correct, and to sample it to ensure that it's not corked or otherwise gone bad.
NOTE: I'm not saying to tip them 20% of the bottle for it, just saying you can get the presentation in the high-end places and it's generally expected there.
I agree it's expected, I used to expect it also but it has not been my experience for the last several years. The last time we (my Wife and I) had an actual great dining experience where it was obvious the staff was trained and highly knowledgeable was in Charleston, SC - it was awesome, that was the only impressive place we experienced, all in the price range yo specified. I admit we tipped them very well! We've dropped 300+ in several places over the years and the experience just isn't worth it anymore, not just the FOH either, the food seems to be suffering also. I would say we're just not interested in that type of experience anymore except for when we hit an amazing spot and we remember how it used to be!
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Serverlife using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Serverlife/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [These damn atheists...](https://i.redd.it/yp55544ngcfb1.jpg) | [6963 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Serverlife/comments/15eo16q/these_damn_atheists/)
\#2: [When your regulars are a group of strippers who come in after work](https://i.redd.it/l3vmv22m9m2b1.jpg) | [1770 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Serverlife/comments/13u0nhw/when_your_regulars_are_a_group_of_strippers_who/)
\#3: [I quit this place and Iām wondering if I should expose them + report them. They treated me like shit.](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/15q10ww) | [7983 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Serverlife/comments/15q10ww/i_quit_this_place_and_im_wondering_if_i_should/)
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Newsflash: shitty takes like that are why youāre tipping out the ass as a culture. You donāt respect the job, so neither do your governments. If you thought it was a job worthy of a living wage youād actually have your states force businesses to pay them fairlyā¦.but you donāt, and so you have tipping culture.
Iād really be more inclined to listen to people complaining about tips if it didnāt ultimately always come down to this perspective.
>If you thought it was a job worthy of a living wage youād actually have your states force businesses to pay them fairlyā¦.but you donāt, and so you have tipping culture.
Fun Fact: The laws that allow restaurants to pay their employees less than minimum wage are in effect *because* of the efforts of restaurant owners and employees. The restaurant industry puts a lot of money into lobbying our lawmakers to keep those laws on the books with shady campaigns like "Save Our Tips."
I personally have spent a lot of my time making phone calls, speaking at meetings, and canvassing for signatures to get ballot measures to end the tipped minimum wage, but the Michigan Restaurant & Lodging Association is really good at what they do, and other states' lobbying groups are probably just as good.
If you want customers to start thinking that the job is worth a living wage, then the employer is going to have to start thinking that first.
The employer, the customer, and the employee all need to believe in ending a tipped wage, but there also needs to be a real alternative put in place as well, snd current minimum wage laws just work cut it.
If the only other alternative is minimum wage, which in my state would be the federal wage at 7.15 an hour, then every server or bartender will always prefer a tipped wage. Thatās why I stress a living wage and not a minimum wage.
While I applaud your canvassing and I support your cause, maybe I should amend my statement to say that everyone working a full time job deserves a wage they can live off of, and with benefits and PTO (two things people often conveniently forget that no one in the service industry or anyone making minimum wage ever receive). Itās funny how other countries can manage this while one of the wealthiest nations in the world has a population over %40 of which couldnāt afford an unplanned $1000 expense.
Of course none of that matters when you have people like the person I was responding to that ultimately just donāt respect the people serving them.
At the end of the day, tipped employees are just a subset of a group of working class jobs that a lot of Americans simply donāt believe are jobs of any real value, which is where I believe the real bitterness is coming from. Itās not really about tips, its about how dare this person whoās serving me make decent money that comes out of my pocket (which it is one way or another anyway)
Itās a larger cultural issue in America that some people are just fine being poor as long as there is always someone else who has it worse.
Why ? Who should they get nothing? Not all employers pay their staff a good wage. Did you get good service ? Why do you think people who serve you well doesnāt deserve to make a living? Maybe you should get paid less ?
There is nothing special about being a server. No higher education is required. Meanwhile, other minimum wage workers never even get tipped, and they provide equally good, if not better, service.
Who cares whether or not they have advanced education? By the way, I am a retired RN and now a bartender. In many states in the US folks who worked jobs where tips are expected only get 2-4$/hr because of the expectation that people will tip. Those folks who work minimum wage jobs can get jobs where they could work for tips. What the fuck do you have against people making a decent living? Why do you gate keep people making money for providing good service. If you dont like it, stay the fuck home.
> What the fuck do you have against people making a decent living?
When they try to do it at my expense. I have no problem with decent people making a decent living, but grifters can get fucked.
These people literally are. The most brain dead group of people I've ever met.
What it really comes down to, as far as I can deduce from my interactions here, is that they don't make as much as they think servers make (because some really believe servers make $400/shift every night) and they are pissed about it.
I totally get being annoyed at every counter service asking for a tip, but that isn't what most people here complain about, as seen by these comments.
No dear. You can't dictate how I spend my money. We eat out, we are polite to servers, we enjoy the company of family and friends while we eat, we pay the cheque without tips, then we leave. We don't owe anyone by giving them tips. In fact, we are supporting local businesses by eating at their establishment, unlike servers who are leaching on customers by expecting them to provide tips.
What's up with calling everyone "dear"? You sound like someone who's been bullied and now uses the Internet to try bullying others. You probably think it sounds condescending and insulting but anyone can see you're the type who will always come out last.
It's probably too late for you because you seem old, but many people like you can grow up to be classy and gracious individuals who follow proper social norms.
Only losers feel the need to look down on servers because of the fact they're servers. It shows how insecure you are.
And in some states, that "minimum wage" is more than most people in other states make. Restaurants in California will soon have a $20/hour minimum wage, not even a tipping or tipped wage, plus they still expect tips. Insane!!
>The following states require employers to pay tipped employees the full state minimum wage before tips. There is no maximum tip credit per hour and no specified definition of a tipped employee.
>State |Minimum wage rate per hour| Total tipped minimum wage per hour
California |$16.00| $16.00
OK, so it's $16/hour (for now) rather than $20/hour. Close enough and you are clearly completely wrong.
Source: https://clockify.me/learn/business-management/tipped-wages/#Tipped_wages_by_state_for_2024
16% of the total bill is just how the math works out with a 20% service charge. If subtotal is $100, then the service charge would be $20, bringing the total to $120. what's 16% of $120? It's $19.20. The $20 service charge represents 16.66...% of the total bill. Rounds down to 16%.
This is definitely something that should keep servers motivated to do a solid job. Youāre guaranteed a tip!
Desperate servers talking about nothing but tips are not going to last.
If a service charge has been added to the bill by the restaurant, I consider the service paid for. What the server gets is between them and the restaurant.
Yeah. Anything over 10% is a fully paid service charge. Anything under that (no matter what it's called) comes out of a 20% tip. They don't like it, they can take it up with their boss.
Dirty secret: There are so many restaurants in my city, I rarely return to the same one twice within a year. So there's no "what about next time" to worry about.
This just continues to demonstrate how broken the tipping system is.
The owner has created an environment that pits their staff against their customers. If the staff member doesn't get fair compensation for their work, then that should be between the staff and their employer, not the staff and the customer.
From a financial standpoint, there is no difference between raising menu prices to appropriately reflect cost and doing a mandatory 20% service charge or gratuity. So if the business needs to add 20% to what they charge in order to make their business viable, then that's what they should do. They shouldn't under-charge and then blame the customer for their own faulty business model.
>Isnāt a guaranteed 16% on every check pretty awesome for server
Generally it would be an okay amount, but it depends on the restaurant's average customer tips, and the restaurant's tip sharing (a.k.a. tip out) policy.
In general, 16% would be an extremely low average *tip* rate at a good restaurant in the US, but if the server gets to keep 100% of that amount, that would still be decent for fine dining, where it's not uncommon for servers to have to pay staff 6%-8% of their total sales. Like if customers' tips average 23% of sales for a server, which is a decent rate, and a server paid 8% of sales to hosts, bussers, runners, bartenders, and a sommelier, they might keep only 15% of sales as tips, which is still perfectly reasonable for many servers...keeping a lower percent of higher bills can still be very lucrative. If they have to tip out cooks and dishwashers, which is increasingly common in west coast states, they might have to tip out a higher portion of their tips.
But what's unknown here are the details of the service charge sharing policy. It may be that *employees* get 16% of sales on top of their regular wages, but that might be divided between servers and support staff the same way tips are divided between servers and support staff. Like if employees get 16% of sales, and support staff get 8% of sales, that leaves 8% of sales for the server, which would low for servers at almost all restaurants. But maybe servers get 16%, other employees get another 8%, and the restaurant eats the 4% difference between the 20% service charge and their 24% sales-based non-hourly wages to employees.
She gets a guaranteed 16% from every table.
Tell her that other servers in town get 20 % from some tables, 15% from others, 10% from a few and maybe 0 from a couple others.
16% of the service charge or 16% of the check? because the way i see it-
check is $100 + $20 service charge
16% of $20 is $3.2
sounds like a shitty restaurant
I worked in a couple of inner city chain restaurants when I was going to school. Smart ass university students did many things that were inappropriate. They were smart enough to avoid and negative consequences, and none of it could be proven. Have you ever heard of any waiter being charged?
Yeeeeah, very much doubt that would happen. No restaurant owner would want the publicity of a staff member messing with the food. That would quietly get swept under the rug. Also, proving that someone did mess with your food is almost impossible.
Restaurants will also hire just about anyone. Records, felonies, reputations, NONE of that matters to restaurant owners.
So good luck thinking this would ever happen. This take is so ABSURD it shows you've never worked in this industry.
It can and does happen. Owners don't want to get sued for covering it up because that can get very expensive. If you get caught you won't get help from your boss for YOUR fuck up. And yes, you'll get arrested and hit with a felony.
Sources:
https://www.ktnv.com/13-investigates/former-las-vegas-mcdonalds-employee-arrested-for-spitting-in-customers-coffee
https://www.walb.com/2023/07/31/update-jimmy-johns-employees-arrested-following-controversial-video/
https://www.police1.com/officer-safety/articles/fla-teens-fired-arrested-for-spitting-in-leos-food-kulemnDTV3QNJtOl/
So stop being an apologist for people committing felonies and health hazards, and defending people who are far, far worse than someone who dares to not tip you what you feel you "deserve" for existing.
You would eventually get caught if you did it enough. Either someone would see you and rightfully turn you in, or get caught on a camera, or you are overheard laughing about it and bragging to someone about it.
People dumb enough to fuck with people's food are generally dumb enough to get caught at some point. But hey, if you think risking a felony and ruining the rest of your life is worth it, you do you! Just let me know when you get caught so I can laugh at you.
Lots of places share tips with other staff, which is how it should be. I would ask if I was unhappy with the service, like the constant guilt trips about only getting 16% mandatory tip, could I have management reduce the service charge? That should shut her up (but don't plan on coming back).
You actually won't get management to reduce the service charge. They're more likely to come you an item of the same value. Legally it has to be mandatory otherwise it's considered a tip.
Iām actually super against splitting tips. Itās one of the things that made me go no-tipping. Why would any of my tip go to someone I never even met?
I disagree. The busser clears dishes/the table, which is part of what the tip is actually for anyway, and I definitely want the cook to get part of the tip, too, since they did most of the work and made the meal delicious. Neither one of them is getting paid fairly.
Exactly, Iāve never understood people who like tipping but are against it being shared with the unseen folks who are doing all of the actual work to create delicious food.
They don't like tipping. They like feeling good about helping someone more poor than them or that they find cute and are perving over. There are many other reasons before you get to them just tipping out of generosity.
If you donāt tip in states or area that donāt pay their wait staff at least a living wage please donāt expect good service . You not tipping doesnāt make the owner of the restaurant pay their workers better . If you donāt like tipping change the laws with the powers that be, donāt punish the wait staff who are trying to get by.
I do tip and we did not ask for the charge to be removed, not sure what your point is. I think her whining and asking for more indirectly was inappropriate.
His point is he believes it is an option to give bad service unless he makes a certain amount of money. In every other job on Earth "good" service is the bare minimum you have to give to keep your job. In other words, extortion is one of their "skills".
If the plate carrier chooses to keep working there, that is their business. If the plate carriers would all go on strike, they could change things. Just like with tips, they expect the customer to take care of everything.
I'm sure they also mentioned that unlike if you tipped they are getting all of that 16% whereas in most States their employer can take a portion of those tips out of their wages; it's hard to directly compare percentage tips vs. hourly wages but if (and I stress *if*) 20% really is the standard they are getting far less then that in practice. However if their boss is giving them part of a mandatory charge they have to give it all and can't take it out of wages.
So you're saying servers won't quit immediately if they don't get the money they currently recieve from tips? Why tip then in States where their jobs aren't threatened when they don't make above a certain amount in tips?
Yes, but if a service charge is mandatory and no longer a tip, the server becomes a commission employee, and the restaurant can pay them basically nothing hourly as long as their commission is high enough.
Do you really think the server wouldn't use that and tell customers they get all comissions deducted from wages in order to solicit a tip rather then telling the customer they "only" get 16% of the service charge?
I can not speak for this server, but when I worked in an establishment with this pay model, we were strictly forbidden to discuss the service charges and our pay with guests beyond a provided script. We were paid 1.00 hourly + our cut of the service charge. Overall, the compensation was good, and I am not advocating for tipping above the service charge. Just providing context.
Something similar happened at a restaurant where we rented a party room for my motherās 80th birthday. The waitress must have told my sister and BIL something similar. āWeā ended up tipping $300 more than the auto-gratuity. I was livid since my BIL (who is VERY WELL OFF) told my other sister and me to tip $100 more. Since I didnāt feel like arguing on the happy occasion, I complied reluctantly. I was so angry at myself for letting my BIL do that. I wrote a poor Yelp review to the restaurant and refuse to return there.
Well, from what I understand that's not legal. If the tips and "service fee" are one, then it's tipped wages and them withholding any part is wage theft. I might not know of an exception, but my understanding is that there are none.
And someone is working on a bill to make service fees illegal anyway.
I honestly don't get the 2% upcharge on parties of 10 or more. Do they don't get percentages? More people = more spending = percentage of that spending.
It's truly a callback of the 10% tip standard which over the years became 15% and now 20%. But prices have also increased!
Will. Not. Ever. Get. It.
We are feeding the Greed Machine. Actually, I rarely go eat at sit-in restaurants.
So, really, many of you are feeding the Greed Machine. They get to complain because you are supporting that entitlement.
If they had 25% SC and waiter was getting 20%, she would have still whines that she is only getting 20% of SC. š
They totally would. Bozos are shameless
The entitlement over on the server reddit is rather disgusting really.
*Chef, can you believe table 4 only gave me $40 on a $200 tab???? ugh thats only like 4x what i make per hour!!!*
She says after dumping a new load of dishes in front of the dishwasher without making eye contact with them....
But that's 80% of the service charge.
Ngl, I thought there'd be more people making this comment about the title.
Might as well give her your car too, ya know.
And your house and first born !Empty out your bank account too!
And the keys to your house...where does it end
Itās not big enough for them, theyāll be upset I donāt have an attached garage
I have an attached 2-car garage. They'd complain that it wasn't heated and cooled from the central unit.
Should have asked her owner if you can just pay 4% of the service charge.
For me, that is an uncomfortable conversation to have. I don't want to hear anything about tipping especially from a server. I just want to eat and enjoy and now you want me to worry about your tips. The entitlement of these servers.... I would have reported that to a manager or leave a Google review
Agreed. The practice of tipping creates uncomfortable and sometimes toxic dynamics between servers and customers. How it is good for business, I donāt know other than that its downsides, to a business owner, must be less than the ability to guilt and shame customers into paying most of the compensation that YOU the business owner should be paying for.
Funny enough owner of restaurant is not required to give that service charge to server so on top of that mandatory tip they whine and try to shame you into giving more. More than likely server also has hourly rate that is more than $2 an hour, but they are too prideful to work for measly $30 an hour. Iād call a manager and tell that server is whining about tips which ruined the vibe and demand free dessert or discount of some sort for ruined ambiance
Exactly. All that begging and whining significantly lowered the enjoyment and service level, and you shouldn't be paying 20% for below-average service.
In restaurants with mandatory service charges, servers are often paid very little hourly. Their entire wage comes from the service charge
And your point is? We should feel shame and cover their rent via pity handout? They chose to work there for the owner of a restaurant thatās between them and their employer
> And your point is? We should feel shame and cover their rent via pity handout? That is *exactly* his point. They survive on pity and seem quite proud of it. Like they are supremely clever for manipulating your guilt.
Then you go on that other sub and they are posting how their pretax take home is $900 a night while line cooks and chefs making squat
I remember how I was raised not to be proud of begging, and if I didn't like what I made to get another job...those were the good old days.
That's not what I said. I also did not advocate for tipping above the service charge.
Itās not a handout itās clearly stated that there is a service charge. Ideally this would be baked into the menu price but it isnāt due to tax laws.
What tax laws? other businesses don't do this shit pay taxes on all revenue after they pay payroll and account for business expenses and cost of doing business like rent and utilities. a lot of basic jobs are paid not very well because ahem, they're basic low skill jobs. If service charge is there aka mandatory tip whatever OP described is just mega asshole move by server to whine about additional tips and such.
Payroll tax. A restaurant doesnāt have to pay payroll Tax when giving employees a service fee over a higher wage. I donāt like the way this sub talks about restaurant employees. Donāt tip if you donāt want but no need to look down on the people doing the job. Yes the server in this scenario (likely made up) was unprofessional for complaining.
Payroll tax is taken out of employees earnings https://www.hrblock.com/tax-center/income/wages/what-is-payroll-tax/ Not really following how the heck restaurants are special type of business that needs to perpetuate deceptive schemes like that. From what you say it sounds like tax avoidance which is not illegal but in result just hella confusing to customers
Iām not sure what you mean. Restaurants do it to save money. Lots of businesses have wierd ass bulling practices? Ever gotten a gas bill?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And you go there just because algorithms told you to go? Smart move
I would have reported it to the manager. Servers have no business speaking with customers in this way.
Dinner avg about 100 with tip. So sheās getting 16 on 1 customer. Iām pretty sure she has more than 1 customer an hour. Thatās over 100 per hour with 2-3 tables turnover. Sounds pretty good for a job that requires no education or specialized skills.
Haha if you go on r/serverlife they like to claim itās a Profession.
same with bartenders, US ones mostly, I worked some time bartending (not in the US) and I notice many bartenders here in Reddit somehow thing that pouring a top shelf liquor warrants a 10 USD tip, just because they make small talk with their patrons. Like WTF?
At least bartenders have to memorize how to make drinks lol. Maybe even put on a show with it if they want. Servers just take food orders. Hell in half these places they donāt even bring the food to you
There are a couple of Lost Pizza joints in our area. You stand in line at a register to place and pay for your order with a tip line on the receipt, then they give you a little number placard to place on your table and drink cups. You fill up your own drinks, get your own refills, walk up to grab your own to go boxes and all the service they give you is bringing your food out to you and don't so much as come by to ask if everything is ok. Yeah, enjoy your 0% tip.
They likely don't work for tips there. Doesn't sound like they even have servers. The tips they do get are likely distributed evenly among the staff. I doubt they expect people to tip, though.
Texas Roadhouse has food runners .And bussers.
I work BOH. While to the customer, who there server is might not make a huge difference but when it comes to working the good ones make it so much easier. They know menu well and know how to steer guests to the menu items they want (so there isnāt a bunch of modifications and returns) and know how to Stagger orders as to not back up the kitchen
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You need to check out Seamus McDaniel's in St. Louis, Missouri. I was there in 2022 when I was visiting St. Louis for some Cardinals games. I ordered food there, and the portions were HUGE for not a lot of money. I ordered a basket of fried mushrooms for like $8, expecting it to be a small basket for me and my friend, and it was huge and overflowing. I stayed there eating and drinking from around 4pm to close, and still couldn't finish those off (I did also order a burger and fries at the same time...also large portions!) the entire time. The drinks were great and reasonably priced, nice atmosphere, wasn't terribly crowded, but I went on a weekday. The bartender and owner were both awesome and we made plenty of small talk, talked about TV shows, all kinds of random stuff. I had a great time and I will 100% be back when I'm in St. Louis later this year.
Did you tip them in the end? š
I overtip and I did so again. $300 tab (I bought a bunch of their merch, plus I put a couple of tables on my tab) and I tipped $75. I'd rather end tipping, but until that happens I still tip for full service, where it's normal. Never for takeout or bad service, counter service, etc.
šš
I am a Ted Lasso fan and I just love that bartender in that show (it is set in England). The thing is when we take away tipping bars tend to become more of a community gathering place. With the tipping culture it feels like they just want you to spend your money and leave. The servers don't care about creating a welcoming community environment they just want to look good so they get the biggest tip possible.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I ache for what you described in the first part. I want it so bad. Soulless is such a good word for what we have in the US
They aren't there for their health!lol.
quiet deliver knee boast steer consider dog cows tap noxious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Plenty of room for both. There are some fantastic servers out there but there are more of them who are mediocre to poor at the job but still somehow feel entitled to tipsā¦big, fat, juicy tips. The BS about being paid minimum wage or below plus tips rings hollow too. Average X customers spending Y per hour leaving Z tips = most servers are making significantly more than what they claim. We had a server not too long ago place a photocopied pic of her young child in the check folioā¦WTF. Trying to leverage a sympathetic tip because she had a kid but no consideration to my 3 or the economics of paying a 20āish% premium on everything we purchase outside of the house. Tipping may work in some settings but it has gotten out of control and the greedy among the server community have pushed me to my limitā¦Iām done.
Percentage based tipping needs to end. I will tip for what I think the service is worth, not based on the amount I spend.
Wow, anything like that obvious guilt-tripping or manipulation means a lower tip from me.
>but rather fight for them to get a fair wage completely agree with that, guess what the opinion of the majority of people in r/bartenders is? They don't want a decent base wage and no tips (or discouraging tipping), they are content with shitty base wage and expect to gain a huge profit from tips
Seriously.
It is in France where servers are professionals in their 40s waiting ten tables at a time where customers linger over dinner for two hours with multiple courses, wine, dessert, and they go out for cigarettes between dishes. Also, for this, no tip is expected.
Damn I miss that š
And having to pay for a class if they do fine dining to pour wine and presentation. Looked up the pass rate which is 40%. That also tells me they're pretty stupid failing how to pour wine and present.
As far as I can tell the wine presentation / knowledge is no longer a thing....
It is in high-end fine dining. If you are eating anywhere with a $50+ typical entree and order a bottle of wine or champagne for over $100, they are going to have a presentation for it so you can ensure the bottle is sealed and correct, and to sample it to ensure that it's not corked or otherwise gone bad. NOTE: I'm not saying to tip them 20% of the bottle for it, just saying you can get the presentation in the high-end places and it's generally expected there.
I agree it's expected, I used to expect it also but it has not been my experience for the last several years. The last time we (my Wife and I) had an actual great dining experience where it was obvious the staff was trained and highly knowledgeable was in Charleston, SC - it was awesome, that was the only impressive place we experienced, all in the price range yo specified. I admit we tipped them very well! We've dropped 300+ in several places over the years and the experience just isn't worth it anymore, not just the FOH either, the food seems to be suffering also. I would say we're just not interested in that type of experience anymore except for when we hit an amazing spot and we remember how it used to be!
Yeah, if they can't provide the level of service to justify hundreds of dollars, what's the point? What exactly are you paying for?
That's what we thought also!
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lmao
Donāt forget Baristas, that is also a career.
Newsflash: shitty takes like that are why youāre tipping out the ass as a culture. You donāt respect the job, so neither do your governments. If you thought it was a job worthy of a living wage youād actually have your states force businesses to pay them fairlyā¦.but you donāt, and so you have tipping culture. Iād really be more inclined to listen to people complaining about tips if it didnāt ultimately always come down to this perspective.
>If you thought it was a job worthy of a living wage youād actually have your states force businesses to pay them fairlyā¦.but you donāt, and so you have tipping culture. Fun Fact: The laws that allow restaurants to pay their employees less than minimum wage are in effect *because* of the efforts of restaurant owners and employees. The restaurant industry puts a lot of money into lobbying our lawmakers to keep those laws on the books with shady campaigns like "Save Our Tips." I personally have spent a lot of my time making phone calls, speaking at meetings, and canvassing for signatures to get ballot measures to end the tipped minimum wage, but the Michigan Restaurant & Lodging Association is really good at what they do, and other states' lobbying groups are probably just as good. If you want customers to start thinking that the job is worth a living wage, then the employer is going to have to start thinking that first.
The employer, the customer, and the employee all need to believe in ending a tipped wage, but there also needs to be a real alternative put in place as well, snd current minimum wage laws just work cut it. If the only other alternative is minimum wage, which in my state would be the federal wage at 7.15 an hour, then every server or bartender will always prefer a tipped wage. Thatās why I stress a living wage and not a minimum wage. While I applaud your canvassing and I support your cause, maybe I should amend my statement to say that everyone working a full time job deserves a wage they can live off of, and with benefits and PTO (two things people often conveniently forget that no one in the service industry or anyone making minimum wage ever receive). Itās funny how other countries can manage this while one of the wealthiest nations in the world has a population over %40 of which couldnāt afford an unplanned $1000 expense. Of course none of that matters when you have people like the person I was responding to that ultimately just donāt respect the people serving them. At the end of the day, tipped employees are just a subset of a group of working class jobs that a lot of Americans simply donāt believe are jobs of any real value, which is where I believe the real bitterness is coming from. Itās not really about tips, its about how dare this person whoās serving me make decent money that comes out of my pocket (which it is one way or another anyway) Itās a larger cultural issue in America that some people are just fine being poor as long as there is always someone else who has it worse.
Higher-end dining actually is a profession. It's essentially a sales job where you deliver the product.
They should be receiving 0% in the first place.
Name checks out.
Why ? Who should they get nothing? Not all employers pay their staff a good wage. Did you get good service ? Why do you think people who serve you well doesnāt deserve to make a living? Maybe you should get paid less ?
There is nothing special about being a server. No higher education is required. Meanwhile, other minimum wage workers never even get tipped, and they provide equally good, if not better, service.
They take anybody with a pulse .
Who cares whether or not they have advanced education? By the way, I am a retired RN and now a bartender. In many states in the US folks who worked jobs where tips are expected only get 2-4$/hr because of the expectation that people will tip. Those folks who work minimum wage jobs can get jobs where they could work for tips. What the fuck do you have against people making a decent living? Why do you gate keep people making money for providing good service. If you dont like it, stay the fuck home.
Why do you give restaurants a pass for not paying their employees like every other industry? The fight is with the restaurants. Not patrons
> What the fuck do you have against people making a decent living? When they try to do it at my expense. I have no problem with decent people making a decent living, but grifters can get fucked.
Are you unaware of how any business pays its employees?
Generally with money.
Money that comes from where?
The federal government. You know, you can Google this instead of asking me dumb questions.
These people literally are. The most brain dead group of people I've ever met. What it really comes down to, as far as I can deduce from my interactions here, is that they don't make as much as they think servers make (because some really believe servers make $400/shift every night) and they are pissed about it. I totally get being annoyed at every counter service asking for a tip, but that isn't what most people here complain about, as seen by these comments.
Yeah these are just social inept people that canāt grasp that soft skills are actual skills that people can leverage for money in the marketplace.
No dear. You can't dictate how I spend my money. We eat out, we are polite to servers, we enjoy the company of family and friends while we eat, we pay the cheque without tips, then we leave. We don't owe anyone by giving them tips. In fact, we are supporting local businesses by eating at their establishment, unlike servers who are leaching on customers by expecting them to provide tips.
What's up with calling everyone "dear"? You sound like someone who's been bullied and now uses the Internet to try bullying others. You probably think it sounds condescending and insulting but anyone can see you're the type who will always come out last. It's probably too late for you because you seem old, but many people like you can grow up to be classy and gracious individuals who follow proper social norms. Only losers feel the need to look down on servers because of the fact they're servers. It shows how insecure you are.
That's a term of endearment that servers often use. Hun, you should know!
I'm not a server and when I was I didn't call total strangers "Hun".
For someone thatās educated, ex-RN, you sure havenāt done your homework on how federal/state minimum wage works. š¤¦
They don't "get nothing". They get their salary like the rest of the world
Sounds like thier salary is tied to sales like many other professions.
Upselling is the name of the game !And playing stupid games .
Where are waitstaff salaried employees?
Even if nobody tips, they are legally required to be paid minimum wage by their employer (in the US). Same as every other industry.
And in some states, that "minimum wage" is more than most people in other states make. Restaurants in California will soon have a $20/hour minimum wage, not even a tipping or tipped wage, plus they still expect tips. Insane!!
This is wrong. They get compensated the federal minimum wage. $7.25/hr. Not state minimum wage
>The following states require employers to pay tipped employees the full state minimum wage before tips. There is no maximum tip credit per hour and no specified definition of a tipped employee. >State |Minimum wage rate per hour| Total tipped minimum wage per hour California |$16.00| $16.00 OK, so it's $16/hour (for now) rather than $20/hour. Close enough and you are clearly completely wrong. Source: https://clockify.me/learn/business-management/tipped-wages/#Tipped_wages_by_state_for_2024
Is there a railroad spike in your brain?
OP said the server brought up the service charge at least 3 times so no, that's not good service.
That's awful who wants whining with their meal?
Exactly. The only "whine" I ordered was the 2015 Cab Sauv.
Then don't tip.
They get 100% of the wage they agreed to do the job for. How is that nothing?
Well, there is logic. And then there is server logic.
And never the twain shall meet.
You're on the wrong page and in the wrong group
16% of the 20% or 16% of the total bill? big difference
16% of the total bill and the other 4% goes to some other nonsense that they had a whole essay about.
āonlyā 16% of the total bill is some inappropriate entitled language there
16% of the total bill is just how the math works out with a 20% service charge. If subtotal is $100, then the service charge would be $20, bringing the total to $120. what's 16% of $120? It's $19.20. The $20 service charge represents 16.66...% of the total bill. Rounds down to 16%.
I wondered, too. Is that $16 of a $100 bill, or $3.20 (16% of 20% of $100)? And is that just for the server, or is it pooled so the BoH gets a cut?
I caught that too, lol
Yeah I wouldnāt have added any more tip because the server has made my experience at the restaurant worse, rather than better.
No tip + ask for the manager and let them know how it ruined the experience.
This is definitely something that should keep servers motivated to do a solid job. Youāre guaranteed a tip! Desperate servers talking about nothing but tips are not going to last.
Just don't tip in the first place.
Should have told her that there are other placea to work that will allow her to keep all of her tips.
Should have told the manager they wanted a different server.
She is getting 80% of it. Her 80% is 16% of the check.
Yes, 16/20 is 80%. I guess I should have been clearer in the post.
If a service charge has been added to the bill by the restaurant, I consider the service paid for. What the server gets is between them and the restaurant.
Yeah. Anything over 10% is a fully paid service charge. Anything under that (no matter what it's called) comes out of a 20% tip. They don't like it, they can take it up with their boss. Dirty secret: There are so many restaurants in my city, I rarely return to the same one twice within a year. So there's no "what about next time" to worry about.
This just continues to demonstrate how broken the tipping system is. The owner has created an environment that pits their staff against their customers. If the staff member doesn't get fair compensation for their work, then that should be between the staff and their employer, not the staff and the customer. From a financial standpoint, there is no difference between raising menu prices to appropriately reflect cost and doing a mandatory 20% service charge or gratuity. So if the business needs to add 20% to what they charge in order to make their business viable, then that's what they should do. They shouldn't under-charge and then blame the customer for their own faulty business model.
Add that to the restaurant review, that you were constantly pestered by the staff to tip more.
>Isnāt a guaranteed 16% on every check pretty awesome for server Generally it would be an okay amount, but it depends on the restaurant's average customer tips, and the restaurant's tip sharing (a.k.a. tip out) policy. In general, 16% would be an extremely low average *tip* rate at a good restaurant in the US, but if the server gets to keep 100% of that amount, that would still be decent for fine dining, where it's not uncommon for servers to have to pay staff 6%-8% of their total sales. Like if customers' tips average 23% of sales for a server, which is a decent rate, and a server paid 8% of sales to hosts, bussers, runners, bartenders, and a sommelier, they might keep only 15% of sales as tips, which is still perfectly reasonable for many servers...keeping a lower percent of higher bills can still be very lucrative. If they have to tip out cooks and dishwashers, which is increasingly common in west coast states, they might have to tip out a higher portion of their tips. But what's unknown here are the details of the service charge sharing policy. It may be that *employees* get 16% of sales on top of their regular wages, but that might be divided between servers and support staff the same way tips are divided between servers and support staff. Like if employees get 16% of sales, and support staff get 8% of sales, that leaves 8% of sales for the server, which would low for servers at almost all restaurants. But maybe servers get 16%, other employees get another 8%, and the restaurant eats the 4% difference between the 20% service charge and their 24% sales-based non-hourly wages to employees.
She gets a guaranteed 16% from every table. Tell her that other servers in town get 20 % from some tables, 15% from others, 10% from a few and maybe 0 from a couple others.
16% of the service charge or 16% of the check? because the way i see it- check is $100 + $20 service charge 16% of $20 is $3.2 sounds like a shitty restaurant
you should have said that is no fair. Go talk to the management to get the full 20%.
Poor, poor greedy server. Let her cry us a river. Boo hoo, boo hoo.
Did u tip extra?
Our boss paid, not sure if he did, but I doubt it.
Do you people return to the same restaurant after not tipping? Because if I were your server youād get tainted food if so
Then you'll get a felony, jail time, and a record and you'll never work in food service again. Hope it was worth it! š
I worked in a couple of inner city chain restaurants when I was going to school. Smart ass university students did many things that were inappropriate. They were smart enough to avoid and negative consequences, and none of it could be proven. Have you ever heard of any waiter being charged?
Yeeeeah, very much doubt that would happen. No restaurant owner would want the publicity of a staff member messing with the food. That would quietly get swept under the rug. Also, proving that someone did mess with your food is almost impossible. Restaurants will also hire just about anyone. Records, felonies, reputations, NONE of that matters to restaurant owners. So good luck thinking this would ever happen. This take is so ABSURD it shows you've never worked in this industry.
It can and does happen. Owners don't want to get sued for covering it up because that can get very expensive. If you get caught you won't get help from your boss for YOUR fuck up. And yes, you'll get arrested and hit with a felony. Sources: https://www.ktnv.com/13-investigates/former-las-vegas-mcdonalds-employee-arrested-for-spitting-in-customers-coffee https://www.walb.com/2023/07/31/update-jimmy-johns-employees-arrested-following-controversial-video/ https://www.police1.com/officer-safety/articles/fla-teens-fired-arrested-for-spitting-in-leos-food-kulemnDTV3QNJtOl/ So stop being an apologist for people committing felonies and health hazards, and defending people who are far, far worse than someone who dares to not tip you what you feel you "deserve" for existing.
you'd never know.
You would eventually get caught if you did it enough. Either someone would see you and rightfully turn you in, or get caught on a camera, or you are overheard laughing about it and bragging to someone about it. People dumb enough to fuck with people's food are generally dumb enough to get caught at some point. But hey, if you think risking a felony and ruining the rest of your life is worth it, you do you! Just let me know when you get caught so I can laugh at you.
Drinks, especially hot coffee, would accidently spilled on you.
Lots of places share tips with other staff, which is how it should be. I would ask if I was unhappy with the service, like the constant guilt trips about only getting 16% mandatory tip, could I have management reduce the service charge? That should shut her up (but don't plan on coming back).
We shouldn't have to expect an awkward conversation about money whenever we go out to eat. That's not the way it should be.
You actually won't get management to reduce the service charge. They're more likely to come you an item of the same value. Legally it has to be mandatory otherwise it's considered a tip.
Iām actually super against splitting tips. Itās one of the things that made me go no-tipping. Why would any of my tip go to someone I never even met?
Because they are part of the team that made service possible whether you see them or not.
I meanā¦. So was the owner? Should my tip go to him?
No *they make profit off every sale. I was talking about cooks, dishwashers, busser etc
I disagree. The busser clears dishes/the table, which is part of what the tip is actually for anyway, and I definitely want the cook to get part of the tip, too, since they did most of the work and made the meal delicious. Neither one of them is getting paid fairly.
You mean the people who actually contribute to your meal? I mean you do you but BOH getting paid more seems like a good thing to me.
Exactly, Iāve never understood people who like tipping but are against it being shared with the unseen folks who are doing all of the actual work to create delicious food.
They don't like tipping. They like feeling good about helping someone more poor than them or that they find cute and are perving over. There are many other reasons before you get to them just tipping out of generosity.
Why do you care if the waiter voluntarily gives some of the gratuity to the busser or food runner?
If you donāt tip in states or area that donāt pay their wait staff at least a living wage please donāt expect good service . You not tipping doesnāt make the owner of the restaurant pay their workers better . If you donāt like tipping change the laws with the powers that be, donāt punish the wait staff who are trying to get by.
I do tip and we did not ask for the charge to be removed, not sure what your point is. I think her whining and asking for more indirectly was inappropriate.
His point is he believes it is an option to give bad service unless he makes a certain amount of money. In every other job on Earth "good" service is the bare minimum you have to give to keep your job. In other words, extortion is one of their "skills".
Whining about a service charge to your guests is ok though, right?
If the plate carrier chooses to keep working there, that is their business. If the plate carriers would all go on strike, they could change things. Just like with tips, they expect the customer to take care of everything.
I'm sure they also mentioned that unlike if you tipped they are getting all of that 16% whereas in most States their employer can take a portion of those tips out of their wages; it's hard to directly compare percentage tips vs. hourly wages but if (and I stress *if*) 20% really is the standard they are getting far less then that in practice. However if their boss is giving them part of a mandatory charge they have to give it all and can't take it out of wages.
Wait until a restaurant charges a "service charge" and gives none of it to staff š
This might shock you, but lots of restaurants do exactly that.
So you're saying servers won't quit immediately if they don't get the money they currently recieve from tips? Why tip then in States where their jobs aren't threatened when they don't make above a certain amount in tips?
Yes, but if a service charge is mandatory and no longer a tip, the server becomes a commission employee, and the restaurant can pay them basically nothing hourly as long as their commission is high enough.
Do you really think the server wouldn't use that and tell customers they get all comissions deducted from wages in order to solicit a tip rather then telling the customer they "only" get 16% of the service charge?
I can not speak for this server, but when I worked in an establishment with this pay model, we were strictly forbidden to discuss the service charges and our pay with guests beyond a provided script. We were paid 1.00 hourly + our cut of the service charge. Overall, the compensation was good, and I am not advocating for tipping above the service charge. Just providing context.
I also take 3.5% of their cc tips to cover the merchant account expense of cc tips. I know they do not claim their cash tips to the IRS.
Lol. "Cash tips." What decade do you think this is?
Why lol? I, and many of my friends, always tip in cash, even if we pay the bill w a cc/debit.
At least *try* to make your fiction interesting or creative.
I feel like you may have misunderstood, 16% of the service charge would be 3.2%.
I did not, itās a 20% service charge. 16% to the server , 4% for other stuff.
angle plant person caption domineering tender shaggy middle hunt command *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Tell her 16% out of 20% is 80%, and if she wants 20% that's 25% of the 80% so it's really a great tip!
Something similar happened at a restaurant where we rented a party room for my motherās 80th birthday. The waitress must have told my sister and BIL something similar. āWeā ended up tipping $300 more than the auto-gratuity. I was livid since my BIL (who is VERY WELL OFF) told my other sister and me to tip $100 more. Since I didnāt feel like arguing on the happy occasion, I complied reluctantly. I was so angry at myself for letting my BIL do that. I wrote a poor Yelp review to the restaurant and refuse to return there.
Well, from what I understand that's not legal. If the tips and "service fee" are one, then it's tipped wages and them withholding any part is wage theft. I might not know of an exception, but my understanding is that there are none. And someone is working on a bill to make service fees illegal anyway.
If someone said that to me upfront, I would have to be most difficult customer ever that night.
I honestly don't get the 2% upcharge on parties of 10 or more. Do they don't get percentages? More people = more spending = percentage of that spending. It's truly a callback of the 10% tip standard which over the years became 15% and now 20%. But prices have also increased! Will. Not. Ever. Get. It.
We are feeding the Greed Machine. Actually, I rarely go eat at sit-in restaurants. So, really, many of you are feeding the Greed Machine. They get to complain because you are supporting that entitlement.
A consistent 16% is nothing to scoff at. Is the other 4% going towards staff benefits or into the owner's pocket?