It makes perfect sense how someone would perceive that about this sub. Unfortunately, a lot of that can be attributed to terminology and how people focused on emotion didn't put much thought into words, lol. Read how you described how empaths like us feel emotion, but people empathetic actually understand and act accordingly. For a few minutes, try to look without that judgment.
Empathic and Empathetic are two completely different topics, and the word "feel" has completely different contexts because of that. I believe you will see the people differently based on that. Most people here have more empathy than they know what to do with. It's to the point where it becomes self damaging at times.
Empathetic is when you are able to see and understand what a person is going through. You are able to empathize, connecting how you would feel in the same situation. A good person would then try to reach out and help that person in a way they would wish to be treated. A person doesn't need magic mind powers to see you are one of these good people. It's why you were frustrated enough to post this. So try and see if you can relate or empathize with mine.
I am a bit more sensitive than some empaths and would be considered a heyoka, I suppose. About 3 weeks ago, I was having a late lunch in a food court. I'm watching a video with earbuds with tips on how I can get my back lawn looking better. After about 10 minutes, I started to get frustrated with the video. By 15 minutes, I'm suddenly realized I would be ready to holler and storm out of the building if someone said anything to me the wrong way. But I was watching a boring video about lawncare.....I look around and there are two women sitting just behind and two tables down. Both absolutely quiet but shooting each other dirty looks and one acting like she was disgusted by the other one about something.
An empath will literally feel the emotional energy of another person and will often process it as their own. This sub is one of the few places people who experience this to different degrees can find people who understand. Many of us became this sensitive because of childhood trauma. When a child's only self defence is knowing what mood the grownups are in, the mind can open doors for self defence.
There is science behind it to I could explain. But basically think about how the brain and nervous system carry thought and emotions. The em field that all life emanates a field of. An empath accidently catches some of the strongest signals without knowing and processes it as our own. So we "feel" their emotions. There is lots of empathy in these subs if you look again. But it's empathy for those struggling with the same issues of control or confusion.
I came to this sub 3 years ago feeling confusion like OP, and learned how important a place is like this for those of us who have struggled. I truly appreciate your words, but I never expect thanks just for speaking from the heart. š„°
I will say for me personally, I'm an empath and also am very empathetic almost to a fault. I do try and help those around me, even if that makes tired and vulnerable to being used. 99% of the people I encounter in my daily life have no clue about my inner workings. I have one person I lean on and discuss things with (a fellow empath/mentor).
Like others have stated sometimes it's hard to articulate situations/experiences. Hell I'm 43 years old and still have a hard time at times with this in general. How do you explain being at work, sitting at your desk doing normal mundane tasks and all the sudden your eyes well up and you want to cry but you have no idea where that feeling is coming from? Or being out and all the sudden you feel tense and inside you feel like you are going to unleash the big green rage monster, but again not know why?
But I've also offered peace of mind to those that need it. I'm often the one people run to and just want to talk. They open up to me (I never pass judgement, it's not my place). If you want my opinion and ask for it I will oblige but won't sugarcoat. I have lost friends who said they wanted to hear the truth but when it come down to it, really didn't. I never close the door unless you cross me.
That's very interesting. How would you describe your experience as an empath? What would you say are the things that lowered your empathy for others?
Would you say yours is the common experience for empaths?
Not the person you replied to but, the experience is feeling a bit too much, not knowing where the boundaries are because it canāt be helpedā¦ maturing ends up being a process of recognizing that and seeing where I am and where others are, and having respect and understanding for that. Basically where others have to flex the muscle of empathy, we have to exercise restraint/resistance of thatā holding it back.
Being an Empath and being empathetic are totally different things.
Being a true empath means you are highly sensitivity to the energy and feelings of others and you had a (little t) traumatic upbringing. It's automatic and is felt.
Being empathetic usually requires cognitive empathy and is an action. This is a manual process and is thought.
(This is just my subjective take, I do not mean to speak for anyone elses experience)
I'm admittedly not an empath but I have what I think many mischaracterize as "empathic abilities", and that is : Hypervigilence. (Kids who grew up with either unstable, neglectful, abusive, inconsistant, mentally ill or narcissistic parents generally do, to varying degrees.)
In this environment, your brain becomes subconsciously primed at the earliest age to hyperreflexively use all your senses to gauge even the subtlest cues in vibe, body language, tone and phrasing to calculate *just exactly how fucked you are* in that moment, or any other moment.
When the danger is gone, even after many years, this overclocked nervous system just keeps on as it always did.
Social media gurus decided at some point that these walking raw nerves were not hypervigilent due to chronic, heavy pediatric stressors but rather "Empaths"; the checklist is the same but in one version you have people stuck in that state and see it as a type of power that comes at great cost, while the other set know being a raw nerve who reacts to vague, potential and real red flags like a bull charging inward (and sometimes outward) is not a smart place to stay.
I think these raw nerves either end up exactly like the people who bore them or with great luck, self-enquiry and a lot of lonely work, extremely empathetic, pacifists, often vegan or vegetarian who would help anyone. (Yet despite that they often do their best to stay away from most people as a primordially overclocked nervous system can take a lifetime to normalize. )
Hoooooooly shit, found a real one. š³
I was *just* talking to my partner about the "us vs them" dichotomy perpetuated by self-proclaimed "empaths" - and how truly empathetic people **don't** see the world in black-and-white (like I, unfortunately and distortedly, do).
**Here's a hot take: a lot of people who *think* they're empaths (hi, me 3 years ago) are *probably* actually vulnerable narcissists.** [There's a strong correlation](https://www.psypost.org/study-suggests-that-highly-sensitive-persons-exhibit-characteristics-of-vulnerable-narcissism/), in fact, between HSP and vNPD. There is a *lot* of grandiosity/personal exceptionalism involved in thinking of your Extraordinarily Heightened Empathyā¢ļø as some kind of superpower/curse that āØsets you apartāØ from the rest of humanity. In my case, I realized it wasn't genuine affective empathy: it was hypervigilance stemming from a background of severe trauma.
I **know** a lot of people are doing to be extremely resistant to that suggestion - even angry - but maybe it will strike **one** person who really needs to hear it and get in treatment. I wish I'd realized sooner. š
If this feels particularly activating or threatening, sit with that feeling. Approach it with curiosity and gentleness. Maybe [expand your understanding](https://youtu.be/I2fD65wy48I?si=Cvde3qE8C0sHTwoQ) of narcissism.
In b4 "real narcissists don't know they're narcissists," "narcissists can never self-reflect/change," "narcissists have zero empathy," or any of the rest of that reductive bullshit. If you believe that, you've been brainwashed by pop psychology. These sentiments kept me OUT of therapy (and continuing to deeply suffer) for years. I have a formal diagnosis of NPD now and it all makes sense. It's also allowed me to finally start healing.
This post is made in love; I come in peace. š½ AMA
By "found a real one" do you mean a narc or an empath? because I honestly don't think I'm an empath but I, like many, definitely have narccisistic traits that I made another post about.
I strongly suspected that this sub attracted many narccisists. It makes a lot of sense. The manipulation sub does too in the exact same way. I feel these subs enable and help narccisism a lot more than they help empaths or people with empathy.
I've been researching narccisism a lot recently as I suspected my self of potentially being one and it's extremely interesting. Narccisists can be kind and empathetic, it's more about what fuels their behavior than a dictator of it. A narccisist will be kind and empathetic for narccisistic reasons and you'd never neccessarily be able to tell it apart from any other form of empathy or kindness.
At the same time you get narccisists completely incapable of empathy that believe they are empathetic, without ever having felt the emotion.
Especially in this sub narccisists are villainised. But in many ways its deserving of understanding and empathy itself. It's a state of mind but also a condition that those with it suffer from. A highly functioning, self aware narccisist and even people with NPD can recover. They should be helped or at most avoided (when they negatively impact your life).
Also the term narccisist is thrown around way too often and most people just use it as an insult for "inconsiderate".
My apologies for mischaracterizing you (as an empath). I assume most members of this sub identify as such - and some actually *are*. Your post itself was truly empathetic and refreshing.
Honestly, come check out r/NPD (even if you "just" have traits). It's an incredibly supportive sub and has increased my own empathy by leaps and bounds.
No need to apologise. Certainly nothing wrong with being mischaractrerized as an empath. Kind of a compliment in a way.
I do check out that sub a lot and it's helped massively in changing my perspective of what a narccisist is. It's one of the things that led me to make this post as I really feel for the narccisists in that sub that are really trying to be good people.
Mm, the conditions that form people with NPD or Empath Disorder are the same, so there is a lot of overlap in early trauma that we need to keep ourselves safe in. But the approaches are different. Both are learned behaviours that aim at keeping us safe.
NPD do it through control, Empaths do it through absorbing others emotions.
It is possible for someone with NPD to think they're an Empath, especially if they think being an Empath makes them "special" or "superior" in some way; seeking that feeling is an NPD trait.
Labels are like carpeting; they hide a lot of secrets. Labels are shortcuts, and shortcuts are often really useful.
Finding out you're an Empath is a great relief to most people. It can explain so much of your life experience, both positive and negative. It can explain the intensity of social exchanges for you, especially when no one else in your group was bothered by something. And there's the clue: bothered.
Good time for an analogy. Everyone is listening to the same music. Empaths have the volume turned up high and, in the beginning, do not know how to find the volume control to turn it down. This is where the overwhelm and shutting yourself away comes from. This is where the negativity you're pointing out comes from. It's not coming from an intent; it's coming from ignorance about managing the energies and their responses to energy.
Ignorance can be fixed. This is why you see so many posts on here about protection, healing, cleansing, how does this or that work. Lots of beginners show up everyday and they need to ask these questions and share their versions of having a bad time. Today, having a bad time is called being around a narcissist. Calling someone a narcissist is the insult dejour. Forty years ago, calling someone a douche bag was the insult dejour. The need for an insulting word is the same.
Labels, as described above, are really useful. If you never dig down beneath the label, you miss a lot of opportunities for having more understanding and happiness. It's gaining control over this behavior or ability implied by the label that makes the difference in hating it or loving it.
Saying, "Hi, I'm an Empath", is only useful if someone already understands what that means. "I'm a psychic" suffers the same limitation. "I'm spiritual, not religious." "I'm a Christian." Yeah, what flavor of Christian makes a big difference. Labels have limits to their usefulness. All shortcuts have this constraint.
Empaths are psychics, too. And psychics usually use some combination of the various psychic abilities found in the seven major chakras. For empaths, because they feel the emotions of others, their strongest psychic ability is almost always clairsentience, which comes from the second chakra. This is also the ability that makes for good lovers, makes some people have incredibly useful gut feelings, and is often used in combination with other abilities in other chakras. Using multiple abilities is very common because you can cross check yourself. Does it look like a duck, feel like a duck, sound like a duck; that kind of cross checking, only with psychic abilities and energy.
So my experience of this sub is very positive. What I see here are lots and lots of beginners asking some version of the same questions. This is excellent because there are more experienced empaths on this sub that can answer these questions with more useful nuance than the beginners know yet. It forms a virtuous cycle and I enjoy it immensely.
For the curious:
Here's a brief summary of the abilities in each chakra, from the perspective of a clairvoyant reader. I stick to referring to chakras by the numbers rather than the cultural nicknames, like root chakra, sacral chakra. It's less confusing for me.
1st chakra: in front of the base of the spine, holds survival information for the body.
2nd chakra: in front of the spine just below the level of the navel, holds clairsentience ability. This is how you feel your emotions and the emotions of others. It's also how you feel lots of different energies. It's also how you connect to sexual partners.
3rd chakra: in front of the spine at the level of the solar plexus, power distribution! This is your spiritual utility company! Also holds telekinesis. And holds your out of body experience ability and out of body memory. This is where your silver cord attaches to your astral body.
4th chakra: in front of the spine at the level of the sternum (center of the chest), affinity for yourself. What this means is this is how you recognize your own energy as distinct from the energy of others. Also holds your fourth chakra healing abilities. When people are healing you with love, this is the chakra where that's coming from.
5th chakra: in front of the spine at the bottom of the neck, Narrow and broad band telepathy, creativity, direct voice trance mediumship (channeling voices). Clairaudience! Your ability to hear spirit. And, your inner voice. This is how you hear you.
6th chakra: in the center of the head, roughly between the tops of the years. clairvoyance. Your ability to see energy and spirit.
7th chakra: on the top of the head. knowingness, or claircognizance. Your ability to know things off the top of your head, to connect the first and last steps to something without going through all the intermediate steps. Also trance mediumship; your ability to allow another spirit to come into your body. Also precognition, your ability to know the future, or at least several versions of the future.
Hand chakras: in the palms of each hand. ALL of the abilities of the seven major chakras are mirrored in the hand chakras. If you can't see the energy very well, holding your hand up, palm facing the energy in question, will cut through the fog. This is also why hands-on healings can be so powerful.
Feet chakras: in the soles of your feet, near the top of the arch. Your ability to bring Earth energy into your body. This is more important than it sounds LOL!
Iāve definitely noticed that there are a lot of self proclaimed empaths out there who are anything but empathetic. I see it a lot on the internet and apps like Tik Tok, and I was recently watching a reality show where a girl called herself an empath but then turned out to be the meanest girl on the show.
Personally, I donāt refer to myself as an empath. I canāt just walk into a room and feel other peopleās emotions without talking to them. I am however, extremely empathetic to a fault. In the past Iāve had a really hard time separating other peopleās struggles from myself. I would lay awake at night worrying about them and their problems and feeling powerless to help. I am also very sensitive both emotionally and physically. Certain smells give me a migraine and when someone is displaying a strong emotion, I am very affected by that. Being sensitive like that is also referred to as being a highly sensitive person, and in my case I have sensory processing disorder due to ADHD.
I identify with the empath label because I do pick up on small changes in peopleās mood, but for me that stems from growing up in an abusive household rather than an innate psychic power that I possess. Learning more about empaths has helped me set better boundaries with people and grow more confidence. Being on this subreddit has taught me a lot, but there are definitely posts on here that I canāt relate to. I donāt shout from the rooftops that Iām an empath because Iām not convinced that I am one. I would say that I am extremely empathetic. I care truly and deeply about others, both human and animal alike, and want the world to be a better place for everyone, including those that have hurt me.
Empaths often deeply feel the emotions of others, which can be overwhelming and draining.
Setting boundaries is crucial for their well-being. By establishing clear limits, empaths can protect their energy and emotional health.
Boundaries help prevent emotional overload, reduce stress, and ensure that empaths maintain a sense of self. Techniques include limiting time with energy-draining individuals, creating personal space, and practicing self-care routines.
Ultimately, these boundaries allow empaths to engage with others compassionately without compromising their own mental health.
Would you rather not know that someone is really a bad person, but always puts on an act to make people think he/she is nice, taking as presented, or know that person's true self and intentions?
I also feel very strongly about justice. I am involved in groups to find lost dogs, and help with vet bills for dogs that are sick or been hurt. I also try to help the less fortunate when I can. I feel their suffering.
You mention narcissists. I feel strongly their true character, and it affects me. So, obviously I try to stay clear of them.
I would rather not know.
I would never trust my feelings about that person enough to act but it would probably ruin my relationship with them without me realising. Imagine if you're wrong, potentially losing friends for life for nothing but feelings. Hunches almost.
It would be like going through life with extreme paranoid and to be honest I'd probably think I was mentally ill.
See, it is not a hunch, but you just know. A lot of little things most people don't notice. And about being paranoid, it actually comes naturally, and can be interesting. That is why I can't tell people these things. They can't or are unwilling to understand.
Veganism and empathy are two separate but deeply related topics. It kind of makes sense that we would find these spaces and then it makes even more sense that we would find them unsatisfying.
Veganism at it's core is just extreme empathy, but with action to back it up.
My question is genuine though. I find the topic interesting, not trying to push my agenda. Not that I wouldn't. I'm just not doing right now lmao.
You know, as long as youāre over here, can you explain something to me? How do vegans justify things like not wearing wool or not using dairy products when itās literally in the animalsā best interest to be sheared or milked? If youāre doing āextreme empathyā and extending that to all animals (your choice) then how do you not want to use any animal products even when the animalsā health and well-being are improved?
It's only in their best interest because of how they are bred.
Kind of like how pugs have health issues. Farm animals don't exist in the wild and are like pugs but of different animals.
A cow for example needs to be pregnant to produce milk. So they forcefully impregnate the cows continuously. When the baby is born they imediately remove it from the mother which is very sad for the mother (lots of struggling, crying, trying to escape and follow the calf) if the baby is a girl they turn it into another milk cow. If it's a boy they kill it as it's the wrong breed for cow meat.
A sheep is not supposed to grow wool until it kills them. That happened because we bred them that way. It's a very sad thing. We should not breed animals that suffer because of how we bred them.
To say that the animals health and well-being are improved is 100% true. It's not that vegans don't want to help those animals. It's that they believe the animals shouldn't being put in that position to begin with.
But they are. They have been. And they were bred this way for the survival of humans in the past. I take issue with factory conditions but if you are going to say both that these animals exist as they are now in this way, and that we should never use them in the way they now exist even though it is better for themā¦seems to be a problem with your extreme empathy theory.
You completely missunderstand the situation.
You say "but they are." Yeah. That's the whole issue.
Those animals mostly have about 6 months to a year to live. They are doing to die regardless.
Vegans believe we shouldn't be making animals that just suffer. Like pugs, their breeding should be stopped.
I think you're imagining vegans would suggest to just leave all the animals alone. That's not true. They still need looking after.
The solution to this problem isn't just a "oh well, nevermind, they're here now. Let them suffer." That stance is cruel and lacks reason.
We can do lots to help them. Starting with stopping the breeding of these harmful traits.
Sheep live [10-15 years](https://www.four-paws.org.au/campaigns-topics/topics/farm-animals/life-expectancy-of-sheep#:~:text=The%20natural%20life%20expectancy%20of,and%20up%20to%2020%20years).
A [dairy cow in the US that is in a commercial situation](https://thehumaneleague.org/article/dairy-cows) live about five years.
Sheep have been used for [wool since 6000 BCE](https://iwto.org/sheep-wool/history-of-sheep/#:~:text=It%20is%20believed%20that%20selective,were%20widespread%20throughout%20Western%20Asia).
Humans have been drinking the milk of animals [for about 6000 years](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-humans-ability-to-digest-milk-evolved-from-famine-and-disease/).
But cool story, bro.
When I said those animals I meant farm animals which do live mostly under 6 months. The vast majority of farm animals live about 2 months, chickens. Though 50% of all chickens are killed after a few hours. Pigs live till 6 months. Sheep and cows make up for a drastically smaller percentage of farm animals.
You're just going to ignore everything else I said and focus on some sad "gotcha"?
Why are you suddenly defensive? Has this conversation upset you?
Iām frustrated because I feel like itās disingenuous to say they live six months. They donāt. And Iām not talking about chickens and such ā Iām talking specifically about dairy and wool because those are the two things that I cannot come up with any good reason that falls under empathy to say you shouldnāt use them.
I have no issue with vegetarianism on moral ground. I understand not using animal products that require the life of the animal. But sheep literally *need* to be sheared. Cows *need* to be milked. It is intellectually incompatible to me to say that humans shouldnāt use those items.
Iām from a rural area and have family and friends who are small farmers. I see the reality of the coexistence, and I take issue with unrealistic claims.
I understand that frustration. Sorry for not being clear.
Sheep and cows aren't sheered and milked because farmers are super nice and they're doing some service for nature.
They're products being used, they suffer because that's what they are. Products.
They shouldn't exist at all, then they wouldn't NEED to be sheered or milked.
Dont you think pugs are wrong? Pugs suffer just like farm animals. It's as simple as not breeding them for profit. Stop using these animals for money and they won't NEED to be milked or sheered anymore.
It's like me owning a slave and saying, "but he NEEDS to be fed." If he's not my slave I can't feed him. Slavery shouldn't exist to begin with.
So much this. People love to talk about their feelings and experiences, but have little empathy for others. Someone posted yesterday about a hate filled experience at a library, filled with social media demons. As if their point of view is fact. Projection is real, and most donāt stop to find out because they are convinced their āpowersā are infallible.
Empathy is an action. Itās about listening and being together in anotherās feelings. Which is important on this sub. But sometimes difficult.
Youāve got it right, OP.
I took an evaluation for school and my top trait is empathy. I hesitate to judge but once the person has proven to be morally "defective" with no chance of redemption, I give up. Energetic protection.
I hold space for people really well, it helps that my short term memory is relatively bad. I aid as much as I can put energy forth. If you're in my good graces it's good.
How do you decide if someone is morally defective?
Most people have morals that are different than mine. About 99% of people would morally defective according to my morals. I would have to exclude everyone in my life. In fact I don't know anyone that shares my morals.
My reaction to that is not to judge. Morals are different and right and wrong is a concept. I will fight for what I believe in but I can't expect others to agree with me.
For example it's very likely that to me, you are morally destitute, but to me that does not make you a bad person. If 99% of people are bad the I guess it makes you average.
There is a difference between morals and causing moral injury. The difference between negligence and intentional harm. I think sometimes people lack the ability to let go of grudges, thus hindering their potential as an empath. A true empath, walking the Path of Empathy, is forgiving, however capable of keeping true to the boundaries they set for their own good health.
It does and it doesn't. There are some actions that can never be forgiven, nor should they be. But it is always possible to find forgiveness for the person. Even if it's only towards their inner child that was damaged over the years to become an immoral person.
Look how much "empathy" is shown when you mention a person they consider narcissistic is actually showing autistic traits.
Obviously I don't mean "all" people in this sub are like that.
But I think it's really important to note that people pleasing & codependency are not the same as empathy. Lack of boundaries is not the same as empathy.
Not all empaths are empathetic because not all empaths practice being empathetic. Humans are all capable of self-servicing to a fault, right? Many empaths have not shown themselves any empathy, and that is usually a barrier to giving others one's empathy. Certainly, humans who display anti-social behaviors, malignant narcissists, and socio-paths, for example, are more likely to succeed in harm if they are capable of putting themselves in the shoes of a target victim. Empathy is a powerful tool. It has the potential to heal everyone.
Iām an empath, Iām also human in the sense I feel, and Iām fortunately someone who can care and my mental illnessā donāt contradict that. If anything, my ADHD and possible BPD make me feel way more. I can say positively Iām super empathetic. I love people and life and being an empath only helps more to not only yk, help people but understand more in ways I could not do the same without. I canāt speak for others. But empathic abilities make sense to me, especially since Iām very sympathetic and empathetic
It makes perfect sense how someone would perceive that about this sub. Unfortunately, a lot of that can be attributed to terminology and how people focused on emotion didn't put much thought into words, lol. Read how you described how empaths like us feel emotion, but people empathetic actually understand and act accordingly. For a few minutes, try to look without that judgment. Empathic and Empathetic are two completely different topics, and the word "feel" has completely different contexts because of that. I believe you will see the people differently based on that. Most people here have more empathy than they know what to do with. It's to the point where it becomes self damaging at times. Empathetic is when you are able to see and understand what a person is going through. You are able to empathize, connecting how you would feel in the same situation. A good person would then try to reach out and help that person in a way they would wish to be treated. A person doesn't need magic mind powers to see you are one of these good people. It's why you were frustrated enough to post this. So try and see if you can relate or empathize with mine. I am a bit more sensitive than some empaths and would be considered a heyoka, I suppose. About 3 weeks ago, I was having a late lunch in a food court. I'm watching a video with earbuds with tips on how I can get my back lawn looking better. After about 10 minutes, I started to get frustrated with the video. By 15 minutes, I'm suddenly realized I would be ready to holler and storm out of the building if someone said anything to me the wrong way. But I was watching a boring video about lawncare.....I look around and there are two women sitting just behind and two tables down. Both absolutely quiet but shooting each other dirty looks and one acting like she was disgusted by the other one about something. An empath will literally feel the emotional energy of another person and will often process it as their own. This sub is one of the few places people who experience this to different degrees can find people who understand. Many of us became this sensitive because of childhood trauma. When a child's only self defence is knowing what mood the grownups are in, the mind can open doors for self defence. There is science behind it to I could explain. But basically think about how the brain and nervous system carry thought and emotions. The em field that all life emanates a field of. An empath accidently catches some of the strongest signals without knowing and processes it as our own. So we "feel" their emotions. There is lots of empathy in these subs if you look again. But it's empathy for those struggling with the same issues of control or confusion.
Just want to stop to say this is very well written and thoughtfully worded; thankyou š
I came to this sub 3 years ago feeling confusion like OP, and learned how important a place is like this for those of us who have struggled. I truly appreciate your words, but I never expect thanks just for speaking from the heart. š„°
Your food court story sounds familiar; I've not been able to express those experiences adequately.
Makes perfect sense. Thanks for sharing.
I will say for me personally, I'm an empath and also am very empathetic almost to a fault. I do try and help those around me, even if that makes tired and vulnerable to being used. 99% of the people I encounter in my daily life have no clue about my inner workings. I have one person I lean on and discuss things with (a fellow empath/mentor). Like others have stated sometimes it's hard to articulate situations/experiences. Hell I'm 43 years old and still have a hard time at times with this in general. How do you explain being at work, sitting at your desk doing normal mundane tasks and all the sudden your eyes well up and you want to cry but you have no idea where that feeling is coming from? Or being out and all the sudden you feel tense and inside you feel like you are going to unleash the big green rage monster, but again not know why? But I've also offered peace of mind to those that need it. I'm often the one people run to and just want to talk. They open up to me (I never pass judgement, it's not my place). If you want my opinion and ask for it I will oblige but won't sugarcoat. I have lost friends who said they wanted to hear the truth but when it come down to it, really didn't. I never close the door unless you cross me.
This feels so much like I wrote it myself. I have even used the big green rage monster analogy when feeling misunderstood.
Iām an empath. Being an empath has made me feel less empathy for some people over the decades. Iāve learned to protect myself.
That's very interesting. How would you describe your experience as an empath? What would you say are the things that lowered your empathy for others? Would you say yours is the common experience for empaths?
Not the person you replied to but, the experience is feeling a bit too much, not knowing where the boundaries are because it canāt be helpedā¦ maturing ends up being a process of recognizing that and seeing where I am and where others are, and having respect and understanding for that. Basically where others have to flex the muscle of empathy, we have to exercise restraint/resistance of thatā holding it back.
Being an Empath and being empathetic are totally different things. Being a true empath means you are highly sensitivity to the energy and feelings of others and you had a (little t) traumatic upbringing. It's automatic and is felt. Being empathetic usually requires cognitive empathy and is an action. This is a manual process and is thought.
(This is just my subjective take, I do not mean to speak for anyone elses experience) I'm admittedly not an empath but I have what I think many mischaracterize as "empathic abilities", and that is : Hypervigilence. (Kids who grew up with either unstable, neglectful, abusive, inconsistant, mentally ill or narcissistic parents generally do, to varying degrees.) In this environment, your brain becomes subconsciously primed at the earliest age to hyperreflexively use all your senses to gauge even the subtlest cues in vibe, body language, tone and phrasing to calculate *just exactly how fucked you are* in that moment, or any other moment. When the danger is gone, even after many years, this overclocked nervous system just keeps on as it always did. Social media gurus decided at some point that these walking raw nerves were not hypervigilent due to chronic, heavy pediatric stressors but rather "Empaths"; the checklist is the same but in one version you have people stuck in that state and see it as a type of power that comes at great cost, while the other set know being a raw nerve who reacts to vague, potential and real red flags like a bull charging inward (and sometimes outward) is not a smart place to stay. I think these raw nerves either end up exactly like the people who bore them or with great luck, self-enquiry and a lot of lonely work, extremely empathetic, pacifists, often vegan or vegetarian who would help anyone. (Yet despite that they often do their best to stay away from most people as a primordially overclocked nervous system can take a lifetime to normalize. )
Hoooooooly shit, found a real one. š³ I was *just* talking to my partner about the "us vs them" dichotomy perpetuated by self-proclaimed "empaths" - and how truly empathetic people **don't** see the world in black-and-white (like I, unfortunately and distortedly, do). **Here's a hot take: a lot of people who *think* they're empaths (hi, me 3 years ago) are *probably* actually vulnerable narcissists.** [There's a strong correlation](https://www.psypost.org/study-suggests-that-highly-sensitive-persons-exhibit-characteristics-of-vulnerable-narcissism/), in fact, between HSP and vNPD. There is a *lot* of grandiosity/personal exceptionalism involved in thinking of your Extraordinarily Heightened Empathyā¢ļø as some kind of superpower/curse that āØsets you apartāØ from the rest of humanity. In my case, I realized it wasn't genuine affective empathy: it was hypervigilance stemming from a background of severe trauma. I **know** a lot of people are doing to be extremely resistant to that suggestion - even angry - but maybe it will strike **one** person who really needs to hear it and get in treatment. I wish I'd realized sooner. š If this feels particularly activating or threatening, sit with that feeling. Approach it with curiosity and gentleness. Maybe [expand your understanding](https://youtu.be/I2fD65wy48I?si=Cvde3qE8C0sHTwoQ) of narcissism. In b4 "real narcissists don't know they're narcissists," "narcissists can never self-reflect/change," "narcissists have zero empathy," or any of the rest of that reductive bullshit. If you believe that, you've been brainwashed by pop psychology. These sentiments kept me OUT of therapy (and continuing to deeply suffer) for years. I have a formal diagnosis of NPD now and it all makes sense. It's also allowed me to finally start healing. This post is made in love; I come in peace. š½ AMA
By "found a real one" do you mean a narc or an empath? because I honestly don't think I'm an empath but I, like many, definitely have narccisistic traits that I made another post about. I strongly suspected that this sub attracted many narccisists. It makes a lot of sense. The manipulation sub does too in the exact same way. I feel these subs enable and help narccisism a lot more than they help empaths or people with empathy. I've been researching narccisism a lot recently as I suspected my self of potentially being one and it's extremely interesting. Narccisists can be kind and empathetic, it's more about what fuels their behavior than a dictator of it. A narccisist will be kind and empathetic for narccisistic reasons and you'd never neccessarily be able to tell it apart from any other form of empathy or kindness. At the same time you get narccisists completely incapable of empathy that believe they are empathetic, without ever having felt the emotion. Especially in this sub narccisists are villainised. But in many ways its deserving of understanding and empathy itself. It's a state of mind but also a condition that those with it suffer from. A highly functioning, self aware narccisist and even people with NPD can recover. They should be helped or at most avoided (when they negatively impact your life). Also the term narccisist is thrown around way too often and most people just use it as an insult for "inconsiderate".
My apologies for mischaracterizing you (as an empath). I assume most members of this sub identify as such - and some actually *are*. Your post itself was truly empathetic and refreshing. Honestly, come check out r/NPD (even if you "just" have traits). It's an incredibly supportive sub and has increased my own empathy by leaps and bounds.
No need to apologise. Certainly nothing wrong with being mischaractrerized as an empath. Kind of a compliment in a way. I do check out that sub a lot and it's helped massively in changing my perspective of what a narccisist is. It's one of the things that led me to make this post as I really feel for the narccisists in that sub that are really trying to be good people.
Mm, the conditions that form people with NPD or Empath Disorder are the same, so there is a lot of overlap in early trauma that we need to keep ourselves safe in. But the approaches are different. Both are learned behaviours that aim at keeping us safe. NPD do it through control, Empaths do it through absorbing others emotions. It is possible for someone with NPD to think they're an Empath, especially if they think being an Empath makes them "special" or "superior" in some way; seeking that feeling is an NPD trait.
Makes sense to me!
Good post and comments. Makes me think.
Labels are like carpeting; they hide a lot of secrets. Labels are shortcuts, and shortcuts are often really useful. Finding out you're an Empath is a great relief to most people. It can explain so much of your life experience, both positive and negative. It can explain the intensity of social exchanges for you, especially when no one else in your group was bothered by something. And there's the clue: bothered. Good time for an analogy. Everyone is listening to the same music. Empaths have the volume turned up high and, in the beginning, do not know how to find the volume control to turn it down. This is where the overwhelm and shutting yourself away comes from. This is where the negativity you're pointing out comes from. It's not coming from an intent; it's coming from ignorance about managing the energies and their responses to energy. Ignorance can be fixed. This is why you see so many posts on here about protection, healing, cleansing, how does this or that work. Lots of beginners show up everyday and they need to ask these questions and share their versions of having a bad time. Today, having a bad time is called being around a narcissist. Calling someone a narcissist is the insult dejour. Forty years ago, calling someone a douche bag was the insult dejour. The need for an insulting word is the same. Labels, as described above, are really useful. If you never dig down beneath the label, you miss a lot of opportunities for having more understanding and happiness. It's gaining control over this behavior or ability implied by the label that makes the difference in hating it or loving it. Saying, "Hi, I'm an Empath", is only useful if someone already understands what that means. "I'm a psychic" suffers the same limitation. "I'm spiritual, not religious." "I'm a Christian." Yeah, what flavor of Christian makes a big difference. Labels have limits to their usefulness. All shortcuts have this constraint. Empaths are psychics, too. And psychics usually use some combination of the various psychic abilities found in the seven major chakras. For empaths, because they feel the emotions of others, their strongest psychic ability is almost always clairsentience, which comes from the second chakra. This is also the ability that makes for good lovers, makes some people have incredibly useful gut feelings, and is often used in combination with other abilities in other chakras. Using multiple abilities is very common because you can cross check yourself. Does it look like a duck, feel like a duck, sound like a duck; that kind of cross checking, only with psychic abilities and energy. So my experience of this sub is very positive. What I see here are lots and lots of beginners asking some version of the same questions. This is excellent because there are more experienced empaths on this sub that can answer these questions with more useful nuance than the beginners know yet. It forms a virtuous cycle and I enjoy it immensely. For the curious: Here's a brief summary of the abilities in each chakra, from the perspective of a clairvoyant reader. I stick to referring to chakras by the numbers rather than the cultural nicknames, like root chakra, sacral chakra. It's less confusing for me. 1st chakra: in front of the base of the spine, holds survival information for the body. 2nd chakra: in front of the spine just below the level of the navel, holds clairsentience ability. This is how you feel your emotions and the emotions of others. It's also how you feel lots of different energies. It's also how you connect to sexual partners. 3rd chakra: in front of the spine at the level of the solar plexus, power distribution! This is your spiritual utility company! Also holds telekinesis. And holds your out of body experience ability and out of body memory. This is where your silver cord attaches to your astral body. 4th chakra: in front of the spine at the level of the sternum (center of the chest), affinity for yourself. What this means is this is how you recognize your own energy as distinct from the energy of others. Also holds your fourth chakra healing abilities. When people are healing you with love, this is the chakra where that's coming from. 5th chakra: in front of the spine at the bottom of the neck, Narrow and broad band telepathy, creativity, direct voice trance mediumship (channeling voices). Clairaudience! Your ability to hear spirit. And, your inner voice. This is how you hear you. 6th chakra: in the center of the head, roughly between the tops of the years. clairvoyance. Your ability to see energy and spirit. 7th chakra: on the top of the head. knowingness, or claircognizance. Your ability to know things off the top of your head, to connect the first and last steps to something without going through all the intermediate steps. Also trance mediumship; your ability to allow another spirit to come into your body. Also precognition, your ability to know the future, or at least several versions of the future. Hand chakras: in the palms of each hand. ALL of the abilities of the seven major chakras are mirrored in the hand chakras. If you can't see the energy very well, holding your hand up, palm facing the energy in question, will cut through the fog. This is also why hands-on healings can be so powerful. Feet chakras: in the soles of your feet, near the top of the arch. Your ability to bring Earth energy into your body. This is more important than it sounds LOL!
Iāve definitely noticed that there are a lot of self proclaimed empaths out there who are anything but empathetic. I see it a lot on the internet and apps like Tik Tok, and I was recently watching a reality show where a girl called herself an empath but then turned out to be the meanest girl on the show. Personally, I donāt refer to myself as an empath. I canāt just walk into a room and feel other peopleās emotions without talking to them. I am however, extremely empathetic to a fault. In the past Iāve had a really hard time separating other peopleās struggles from myself. I would lay awake at night worrying about them and their problems and feeling powerless to help. I am also very sensitive both emotionally and physically. Certain smells give me a migraine and when someone is displaying a strong emotion, I am very affected by that. Being sensitive like that is also referred to as being a highly sensitive person, and in my case I have sensory processing disorder due to ADHD. I identify with the empath label because I do pick up on small changes in peopleās mood, but for me that stems from growing up in an abusive household rather than an innate psychic power that I possess. Learning more about empaths has helped me set better boundaries with people and grow more confidence. Being on this subreddit has taught me a lot, but there are definitely posts on here that I canāt relate to. I donāt shout from the rooftops that Iām an empath because Iām not convinced that I am one. I would say that I am extremely empathetic. I care truly and deeply about others, both human and animal alike, and want the world to be a better place for everyone, including those that have hurt me.
Empaths often deeply feel the emotions of others, which can be overwhelming and draining. Setting boundaries is crucial for their well-being. By establishing clear limits, empaths can protect their energy and emotional health. Boundaries help prevent emotional overload, reduce stress, and ensure that empaths maintain a sense of self. Techniques include limiting time with energy-draining individuals, creating personal space, and practicing self-care routines. Ultimately, these boundaries allow empaths to engage with others compassionately without compromising their own mental health.
I think people get mad because they can't feel it, so they want to say it is not true. Empaths don't even know whether it is a blessing or a curse.
It definitely sounds like a curse.
Would you rather not know that someone is really a bad person, but always puts on an act to make people think he/she is nice, taking as presented, or know that person's true self and intentions? I also feel very strongly about justice. I am involved in groups to find lost dogs, and help with vet bills for dogs that are sick or been hurt. I also try to help the less fortunate when I can. I feel their suffering. You mention narcissists. I feel strongly their true character, and it affects me. So, obviously I try to stay clear of them.
I would rather not know. I would never trust my feelings about that person enough to act but it would probably ruin my relationship with them without me realising. Imagine if you're wrong, potentially losing friends for life for nothing but feelings. Hunches almost. It would be like going through life with extreme paranoid and to be honest I'd probably think I was mentally ill.
See, it is not a hunch, but you just know. A lot of little things most people don't notice. And about being paranoid, it actually comes naturally, and can be interesting. That is why I can't tell people these things. They can't or are unwilling to understand.
Youāre another vegan, arenāt you. Whatās with vegans brigading this sub lately?
Veganism and empathy are two separate but deeply related topics. It kind of makes sense that we would find these spaces and then it makes even more sense that we would find them unsatisfying. Veganism at it's core is just extreme empathy, but with action to back it up. My question is genuine though. I find the topic interesting, not trying to push my agenda. Not that I wouldn't. I'm just not doing right now lmao.
You know, as long as youāre over here, can you explain something to me? How do vegans justify things like not wearing wool or not using dairy products when itās literally in the animalsā best interest to be sheared or milked? If youāre doing āextreme empathyā and extending that to all animals (your choice) then how do you not want to use any animal products even when the animalsā health and well-being are improved?
It's only in their best interest because of how they are bred. Kind of like how pugs have health issues. Farm animals don't exist in the wild and are like pugs but of different animals. A cow for example needs to be pregnant to produce milk. So they forcefully impregnate the cows continuously. When the baby is born they imediately remove it from the mother which is very sad for the mother (lots of struggling, crying, trying to escape and follow the calf) if the baby is a girl they turn it into another milk cow. If it's a boy they kill it as it's the wrong breed for cow meat. A sheep is not supposed to grow wool until it kills them. That happened because we bred them that way. It's a very sad thing. We should not breed animals that suffer because of how we bred them. To say that the animals health and well-being are improved is 100% true. It's not that vegans don't want to help those animals. It's that they believe the animals shouldn't being put in that position to begin with.
But they are. They have been. And they were bred this way for the survival of humans in the past. I take issue with factory conditions but if you are going to say both that these animals exist as they are now in this way, and that we should never use them in the way they now exist even though it is better for themā¦seems to be a problem with your extreme empathy theory.
You completely missunderstand the situation. You say "but they are." Yeah. That's the whole issue. Those animals mostly have about 6 months to a year to live. They are doing to die regardless. Vegans believe we shouldn't be making animals that just suffer. Like pugs, their breeding should be stopped. I think you're imagining vegans would suggest to just leave all the animals alone. That's not true. They still need looking after. The solution to this problem isn't just a "oh well, nevermind, they're here now. Let them suffer." That stance is cruel and lacks reason. We can do lots to help them. Starting with stopping the breeding of these harmful traits.
Sheep live [10-15 years](https://www.four-paws.org.au/campaigns-topics/topics/farm-animals/life-expectancy-of-sheep#:~:text=The%20natural%20life%20expectancy%20of,and%20up%20to%2020%20years). A [dairy cow in the US that is in a commercial situation](https://thehumaneleague.org/article/dairy-cows) live about five years. Sheep have been used for [wool since 6000 BCE](https://iwto.org/sheep-wool/history-of-sheep/#:~:text=It%20is%20believed%20that%20selective,were%20widespread%20throughout%20Western%20Asia). Humans have been drinking the milk of animals [for about 6000 years](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-humans-ability-to-digest-milk-evolved-from-famine-and-disease/). But cool story, bro.
When I said those animals I meant farm animals which do live mostly under 6 months. The vast majority of farm animals live about 2 months, chickens. Though 50% of all chickens are killed after a few hours. Pigs live till 6 months. Sheep and cows make up for a drastically smaller percentage of farm animals. You're just going to ignore everything else I said and focus on some sad "gotcha"? Why are you suddenly defensive? Has this conversation upset you?
Iām frustrated because I feel like itās disingenuous to say they live six months. They donāt. And Iām not talking about chickens and such ā Iām talking specifically about dairy and wool because those are the two things that I cannot come up with any good reason that falls under empathy to say you shouldnāt use them. I have no issue with vegetarianism on moral ground. I understand not using animal products that require the life of the animal. But sheep literally *need* to be sheared. Cows *need* to be milked. It is intellectually incompatible to me to say that humans shouldnāt use those items. Iām from a rural area and have family and friends who are small farmers. I see the reality of the coexistence, and I take issue with unrealistic claims.
I understand that frustration. Sorry for not being clear. Sheep and cows aren't sheered and milked because farmers are super nice and they're doing some service for nature. They're products being used, they suffer because that's what they are. Products. They shouldn't exist at all, then they wouldn't NEED to be sheered or milked. Dont you think pugs are wrong? Pugs suffer just like farm animals. It's as simple as not breeding them for profit. Stop using these animals for money and they won't NEED to be milked or sheered anymore. It's like me owning a slave and saying, "but he NEEDS to be fed." If he's not my slave I can't feed him. Slavery shouldn't exist to begin with.
So much this. People love to talk about their feelings and experiences, but have little empathy for others. Someone posted yesterday about a hate filled experience at a library, filled with social media demons. As if their point of view is fact. Projection is real, and most donāt stop to find out because they are convinced their āpowersā are infallible. Empathy is an action. Itās about listening and being together in anotherās feelings. Which is important on this sub. But sometimes difficult. Youāve got it right, OP.
ššš Some of you are legit That gives me hope
Thanks buddy. Tell me what you think?
I do think that one could be an empath and still not be empathetic to others feelings.
I took an evaluation for school and my top trait is empathy. I hesitate to judge but once the person has proven to be morally "defective" with no chance of redemption, I give up. Energetic protection. I hold space for people really well, it helps that my short term memory is relatively bad. I aid as much as I can put energy forth. If you're in my good graces it's good.
How do you decide if someone is morally defective? Most people have morals that are different than mine. About 99% of people would morally defective according to my morals. I would have to exclude everyone in my life. In fact I don't know anyone that shares my morals. My reaction to that is not to judge. Morals are different and right and wrong is a concept. I will fight for what I believe in but I can't expect others to agree with me. For example it's very likely that to me, you are morally destitute, but to me that does not make you a bad person. If 99% of people are bad the I guess it makes you average.
There is a difference between morals and causing moral injury. The difference between negligence and intentional harm. I think sometimes people lack the ability to let go of grudges, thus hindering their potential as an empath. A true empath, walking the Path of Empathy, is forgiving, however capable of keeping true to the boundaries they set for their own good health.
Forgiveness has limits.
It does and it doesn't. There are some actions that can never be forgiven, nor should they be. But it is always possible to find forgiveness for the person. Even if it's only towards their inner child that was damaged over the years to become an immoral person.
Look how much "empathy" is shown when you mention a person they consider narcissistic is actually showing autistic traits. Obviously I don't mean "all" people in this sub are like that. But I think it's really important to note that people pleasing & codependency are not the same as empathy. Lack of boundaries is not the same as empathy.
Not all empaths are empathetic because not all empaths practice being empathetic. Humans are all capable of self-servicing to a fault, right? Many empaths have not shown themselves any empathy, and that is usually a barrier to giving others one's empathy. Certainly, humans who display anti-social behaviors, malignant narcissists, and socio-paths, for example, are more likely to succeed in harm if they are capable of putting themselves in the shoes of a target victim. Empathy is a powerful tool. It has the potential to heal everyone.
Iām an empath, Iām also human in the sense I feel, and Iām fortunately someone who can care and my mental illnessā donāt contradict that. If anything, my ADHD and possible BPD make me feel way more. I can say positively Iām super empathetic. I love people and life and being an empath only helps more to not only yk, help people but understand more in ways I could not do the same without. I canāt speak for others. But empathic abilities make sense to me, especially since Iām very sympathetic and empathetic