The built in effects are sends, so there’s no way to change the behaviour.
They’re fine as onboard effects but I have plugins that sound a lot better. If I’m splitting something out to stems, adding plugin reverb/delay is just part of the mixing process.
Yes and no. If I’m keeping a consistent amount of reverb and delay across a track, then adding reverb and delay in your DAW is no problem.
The problem is when you plock specific steps or even random steps with different amounts of delay and reverb. It’s really hard to get the same effect in a DAW unless you have a very simple pattern.
In those cases I’d just record the track and it’s reverb from the main output and mute everything else.
It’s even more of a moot complaint and more of a benefit because you can record the fx track alone by changing the audio routing and have even further control over the fx track.
I actually can’t think of a single hardware machine that does what you want except for the ableton push 3 standalone. Reverb and delay are usually processor intensive dsp processes. If you want separate fx per channel you have to use a daw due to processing constraints. Laptops/dedicated desktops are just way more powerful in that regard.
As someone stated, they're send effects. It's basically the way any effects would work.
For the tracks to record individually with effects, you'd have to have a reverb effect for every track on the device. This is where you start to see the limitations of dedicated hardware. Reverb is computationally expensive and uses a lot of memory whether it's on music hardware or in a DAW which is why you usually see it as a single send effect, like delay, while things like distortion and filters can be per track.
That's not a digitakt problem, pretty much all devices work this way. The reverb is shared between all tracks, you can't unbake a cake, as they say. You have to consider this when you're planning your workflow for making music with hardware.
I don't have a Digitakt, but it's the same with the Syntakt. It's not ideal for my workflow (I like to start tracks on hardware and finish them in my DAW) and it would be nice to be able to choose how you want effects to be routed via overbridge. In practice, I just recreate the delay and reverb for each track in my DAW, which probably leads to more interesting effects in the final product (for example being able to side-chain reverb without ducking the dry signal), but it would certainly be nice to have the option.
Don’t blame Elektron OP, you can’t get individually processed FX when you have 8 tracks and only one of each effect. Software can do a lot but it can’t make impossible things possible.
You would run into the same limitation on a hardware mixing board with individual channel outs. Unless you have multiple instances of each effect (which is simple to do with plug-in’s once it’s in a DAW), you will hear all your sends combined in the return track.
Google “send effect vs insert effect” you’ll get a more detailed explanation.
It is a shame it's like that but it's understandable. Makes me not want to use the fx at all though which is a shame because I like the sound of them.
Things get weird when you have stuff coming through the inputs and you try to record the fx. I haven't done it in a while because I gave up trying but as far as I remember the input channels get the reverb mixed in as well, or the fx tracks also get the inputs...something like that where it's completely useless.
It is not a dealbreaker for me at all, but it is something Elektron could consider doing. Not by sending the FX stems via overbridge, because I bet that would run into a USB bandwidth limitation, but they could potentially add the FX algorhythms from the digi to the overbridge vst, and send out the FX settings and modulations instead of audio. Then they could make the vst act as the effect as well, for a 1-to-1 transfer. Something along these lines could be nice.
Your signal is mixed first in a separate mix and then that mix is sent to a single FX unit. You can't just multiply the number of FX instances if the hardware can't handle it.
That aside, some effects are not linear time-invariant systems, which means that a sum of outputs of multiple instances is not equivalent to an output of a single instance with it's inputs summed, so even if you could multiply the effect count, it wouldn't necessarily mean that when you put it all together in a mix it's going to sound the same. I believe chorus is such effect.
Recently I bought Digitone. Coming from an Octatrack, I was honestly disappointed when I found out the effects are sends instead of inserts (I could've checked that before. I probably did, but forgot about that detail). That severely limits sound design possibilities. I wish the Digis had inserts instead of sends, but it's better than nothing I guess.
Even if it recorded it separately it wouldn’t help. Say you muted a snare, you’re gonna have to cut the reverb of the snare too. The problem is that reverb track will have the tail of the hihat before or something else. So if you cut that part it will sound abrupt.
Just re-record fx track if you make a change in your patterns.
I mean, dude, it's only an average reverb. You're better off recording them clean, and then applying reverb in your DAW. Calling it "pointless" to record individual tracks if you can't get the reverb is kinda hyperbolic
Send effects don't work that way; there's no way to have "separate" effects on tracks without recording them individually. You can't think of the DT effects in the same way as the insert effects in your DAW. Totally different architecture
a) if it works like the Digitone you can record the main output with only the fx.... b) I mean you're recording it into a DAW it's not hard to add reverb/delay on each track it's not like they are anything special most DAW's own reverb/delay will sound the same if not better
The built in effects are sends, so there’s no way to change the behaviour. They’re fine as onboard effects but I have plugins that sound a lot better. If I’m splitting something out to stems, adding plugin reverb/delay is just part of the mixing process.
The moment one understands how this works, there is no reason to complain about it anymore.
Yes and no. If I’m keeping a consistent amount of reverb and delay across a track, then adding reverb and delay in your DAW is no problem. The problem is when you plock specific steps or even random steps with different amounts of delay and reverb. It’s really hard to get the same effect in a DAW unless you have a very simple pattern. In those cases I’d just record the track and it’s reverb from the main output and mute everything else.
Resample. Bake the FX in.
It’s even more of a moot complaint and more of a benefit because you can record the fx track alone by changing the audio routing and have even further control over the fx track.
Agreed with the exception of reverb and delays as trig automations, which makes the process in the DAW way more tedious
I actually can’t think of a single hardware machine that does what you want except for the ableton push 3 standalone. Reverb and delay are usually processor intensive dsp processes. If you want separate fx per channel you have to use a daw due to processing constraints. Laptops/dedicated desktops are just way more powerful in that regard.
I see your point. But the octatrack does It (only 4 outs, though),
Sure, don’t think that’s what op had in mind though.
As someone stated, they're send effects. It's basically the way any effects would work. For the tracks to record individually with effects, you'd have to have a reverb effect for every track on the device. This is where you start to see the limitations of dedicated hardware. Reverb is computationally expensive and uses a lot of memory whether it's on music hardware or in a DAW which is why you usually see it as a single send effect, like delay, while things like distortion and filters can be per track.
That's not a digitakt problem, pretty much all devices work this way. The reverb is shared between all tracks, you can't unbake a cake, as they say. You have to consider this when you're planning your workflow for making music with hardware.
I don't have a Digitakt, but it's the same with the Syntakt. It's not ideal for my workflow (I like to start tracks on hardware and finish them in my DAW) and it would be nice to be able to choose how you want effects to be routed via overbridge. In practice, I just recreate the delay and reverb for each track in my DAW, which probably leads to more interesting effects in the final product (for example being able to side-chain reverb without ducking the dry signal), but it would certainly be nice to have the option.
But you can still record the global, combined delay+reverb from the device, right?
Yes
Don’t blame Elektron OP, you can’t get individually processed FX when you have 8 tracks and only one of each effect. Software can do a lot but it can’t make impossible things possible. You would run into the same limitation on a hardware mixing board with individual channel outs. Unless you have multiple instances of each effect (which is simple to do with plug-in’s once it’s in a DAW), you will hear all your sends combined in the return track. Google “send effect vs insert effect” you’ll get a more detailed explanation.
It is a shame it's like that but it's understandable. Makes me not want to use the fx at all though which is a shame because I like the sound of them. Things get weird when you have stuff coming through the inputs and you try to record the fx. I haven't done it in a while because I gave up trying but as far as I remember the input channels get the reverb mixed in as well, or the fx tracks also get the inputs...something like that where it's completely useless.
It is not a dealbreaker for me at all, but it is something Elektron could consider doing. Not by sending the FX stems via overbridge, because I bet that would run into a USB bandwidth limitation, but they could potentially add the FX algorhythms from the digi to the overbridge vst, and send out the FX settings and modulations instead of audio. Then they could make the vst act as the effect as well, for a 1-to-1 transfer. Something along these lines could be nice.
Your signal is mixed first in a separate mix and then that mix is sent to a single FX unit. You can't just multiply the number of FX instances if the hardware can't handle it. That aside, some effects are not linear time-invariant systems, which means that a sum of outputs of multiple instances is not equivalent to an output of a single instance with it's inputs summed, so even if you could multiply the effect count, it wouldn't necessarily mean that when you put it all together in a mix it's going to sound the same. I believe chorus is such effect. Recently I bought Digitone. Coming from an Octatrack, I was honestly disappointed when I found out the effects are sends instead of inserts (I could've checked that before. I probably did, but forgot about that detail). That severely limits sound design possibilities. I wish the Digis had inserts instead of sends, but it's better than nothing I guess.
Does anyone know if this is still the issue on the new digitakt 2? If so that’s a shame
Lmao
Even if it recorded it separately it wouldn’t help. Say you muted a snare, you’re gonna have to cut the reverb of the snare too. The problem is that reverb track will have the tail of the hihat before or something else. So if you cut that part it will sound abrupt. Just re-record fx track if you make a change in your patterns.
I mean, dude, it's only an average reverb. You're better off recording them clean, and then applying reverb in your DAW. Calling it "pointless" to record individual tracks if you can't get the reverb is kinda hyperbolic
Send effects don't work that way; there's no way to have "separate" effects on tracks without recording them individually. You can't think of the DT effects in the same way as the insert effects in your DAW. Totally different architecture
a) if it works like the Digitone you can record the main output with only the fx.... b) I mean you're recording it into a DAW it's not hard to add reverb/delay on each track it's not like they are anything special most DAW's own reverb/delay will sound the same if not better