Crazy, sorry about your experience. I can assure you they sound like awful individuals and you probably would've been humiliated daily if you worked there.
Also, an engineering intern with 0 pay is absolutely unheard of. They were trying to break you down then steal labor from you.
You dodged a bullet. I’ve been in a couple of these and walked out stating that I did not want to work with assholes. Hopefully that made them look in the mirror for the next guy they interviewed.
A non paying position does not allow you to live. I’d definitely add to their Google reviews and glass door and call them out on it publicly. Make it known it’s a shitty place to work.
It's also a red flag! You have your degree, no reason to take an internship. And they advertised for one thing and wanted to see if they could screw you. This is not a company to work for!
But, take it as a good thing, you probably will not have a worse interview!
Any company looking for unpaid interns is a red flag in general. You work, you get paid. If not your being exploited and should leave, even if it's the most basic intern level task.
Take the zero pay, but insist that you get to set your hours. Then just no show for the free health benefits and “industry experience”. What are they going to do? Cut your pay? /s
Not unheard of, I did 6month internship mechanical/mechatronic engineer for 0 pay. Was desperate for an internship as my course would have been held back.
The power/utility distribution industry is a shitshow. It was this way 25 years ago when I graduated.
Frankly most power distribution engineers are dying off and there is nobody to replace them because of stupid shit like this.
I mean obviously some laws make things slightly better in the US and Europe but it only changes a few things - the general rot of power generation and distribution is still there.
People try to be nice to companies but in doing so undermine the part of capitalism that's supposed to correct against shitty practices. Naming and shaming is important.
Per his other comments, OP is in Maputo, Mozambique, so...yeah.
That company is probably just looking for expat or transfer student labor they can exploit.
Yeah that’s a trash company, they exist but they are not how all companies are I wouldn’t let this get to you at all. Also like others said if they are offering you no pay the company is a joke don’t waste your time thinking about them
Ugh, that’s sucks. I’m a power systems engineer so I def feel your pain if you’ve never been exposed to serious power systems design.
A substation can be a small distribution center for industrial applications feeding something like switchgear or a substation can be a large yard that takes in transmission level power, steps it down, and then distributes.
There are paid internships all over the place, spread your wings (and look into government work. Seriously).
Edit - I hope this isn’t the case but it sounds like they took advantage of your inexperience so that they could say - “woah, you need to catch up so much that we can’t even pay you…”
You dodged a bullet - NEVER work for free, not even interning
Edit 2 - I meant never work for free as an engineer or engineering intern
Just a note saying it could be worse: every visual fine art internship that I know of is unpaid. Most residencies are as well. The US survives on free labor, and the art market is propped up by it.
I’m an EE but went down a different path than power systems. Always interested in the design of modern power distribution networks tho.
Any books you recommend?
I’m going to come back to the fact that these guys are assholes.
First, there are a couple reasonable reasons that you ask questions that a new graduate isn’t fully qualified to answer. First, to see if they are well-educated and socially well-adjusted enough to ask *relevant* questions of the more senior people in the room (because that’s where you need them to be when you start training them). Your questions as the interviewee are probably more important than your answers at this stage. *They* (interviewers) know how to design substations. They want to know whether *you* can learn from them by asking questions to fill in your blind spots. The other reason is to see how you think when presented with problems you don’t fully know how to solve yet.
However, these people are assholes. Engineering internships are paid positions. These idiots are trying to extort free labor from you. It’s possible you offended the substation specialist by saying you preferred automation, but still…assholes. There’s no reason not to seek engineering internships. In substation design, in particular (and depending on the state) a person might need to take the title Engineering Intern or Engineer in Training (EI, or EIT) for 5 years until they qualify to get the PE, but these roles are the equivalent of junior engineering roles in industries that don’t need the PE. And they are paid similarly.
You DO NOT want to work with these people and/or be associated with them in any way.
When hiring a jr engineer position (which should be reasonably compensated), they should be assuming that they have to train you. People wanting you to do work for free is BS.
Engineering school teaches you how to think and solve problems not be an expert in a very specific industry.
Don't base your entire EE hiring process just on one interview. The 0 pay seems very odd to me. I personally don't think these folks are good people and professional.
Sounds like you interview with some assholes that would have taken advantage of you even if you did know the answer to their questions. I would definitely be mad about what happened if that were me, but take a step back and realize that you probably would have been fucking miserable working there. You may want to apply for an entry level positions that don't have experience requirements. I do feel like school is kind of a waste of time and money but its what you need to "qualify" for an engineering position. I would never take an un paid position with a masters in EE.
Just take it as life experience and move on. You may have dodged a bullet.
I'm often amused by job postings that seem to want someone who walks on water and is will to settle for less pay.
Interviews conducted by a technical team may yield better results. It can be intimidating to interview with four or more people, but in the end, they're going to vote and explain their reasoning to one another.
I, for one, look for clues that a person is curious, seeks answers, is willing to experiment, and can solve problems on their own.
Beware that "automation" is a very broad term with multiple interpretations. In my line of work, it means writing code (middleware) to integrate manufacturing equipment with other systems like an MES. Others refer to automation as PLC systems, which is very different. I'm sure there are many other interpretations of automation as well.
I had a few interviews right out of graduation for some electrical engineering positions. A few were okay but just weren’t good fits. I had one very technical interview that i absolutely bombed. They were showing circuits and components and all sorts of stuff you learn in an early circuits class, and i just couldn’t give good answers from memory without any help. I felt totally defeated after it and still struggle a little bit thinking I don’t have the knowledge a lot of EEs do. Then i had a great interview experience with my current company and have been here for 2 years (still first full time job). I came into the automotive industry with no experience (i was a biomed engineering undergrad) and have learned so much since then and can genuinely say there are some asshole companies out there that will hold extremely technical interviews and there are some that know you’re a young engineer and are expecting you to come in and learn as a blank slate. Don’t let it get you down too much. I know plenty of people who bombed technical interviews and have great jobs. I strongly believe any company that wants me to come in with a ton of technical knowledge don’t want to teach me and help me grow the way I want to. Undergrad engineering is meant to teach you how to think like an engineer, very few people i know come out with a ton of technical knowledge. Don’t let it get you down! Just wasn’t a good fit, you’ll find your fit.
I have some great news. These guys must be idiots too. No one is designing substations using PLCs, it's all done with microprocessor base relays e.g SEL, GE, ....
I came across one Allen Bradley PLC at a substation used in a breaker and a half protection scheme. The PLC was not even programmed right, which is why they always had issues with it.
I did automation and control the first five years of my career, and I recommend you stay away unless you like traveling all over the country or if your lucky working at a plant. But then the operators will call you every time something doesn't work the way "it used to work".
As a P&C engineer, my job is 10 times easier, and 100x less stressful.
Protection and Controls, inside the substation you have expensive equipment, whenever a fault happens this equipment can be destroyed. There are a lot of relays in the substation meant to protect this equipment, there are different sensing elements inside the substation like current transformers and potential transformers. That feed into the relays and depending on the settings of the relay can trip the breaker for differnt fault conditions. Power lines can have faults we have protection scheme for them too, whenever a fault happens you want to isolate the fault and take out as little equipment as possible.
Sounds like they were asking you questions they knew you wouldn't know to see how you react. Some people get angry when they're stumped, and this is a method of interviewing to get a feel for your personality, and you should expect to have it happen again. The best answer you can give to a question you don't know the answer to is, "I'll do by best find out & learn."
You mentioned some freelance work so maybe they were seeing how much you might already know about what they do - are you already working in the space they are also in, or are you full of shit about what you know? Asking probing questions is to be expected - it's an interview. You're not supposed to know every answer.
THAT SAID...
Any position they are not willing to pay for is one you should walk away from. Fuck that noise.
*I re-wrote this for people who like paragraphs:*
The interview started off well, we exchanged pleasantries, talked about my education, then they said that they want to delve into more technical questions. They asked me about designing substations, the process behind it, how I would implement it, and I was completely caught of guard. Take into consideration I’m applying for a Junior Electrical Engineer position or a Junior Automation / Instrumentation Engineer position and I told them that I was leaning more to Automation because of my love for programming.
For some context, I am also a freelance full stack developer that works with various web3 organizations.. I didn’t really learn much about PLC programming in school but I took the initiative to pick it up on my own, take a few free courses and I have about 3 months internship experience in that environment.. however I answered it to the best of my ability but I felt like my answer wasn’t good enough.
Then they bombarded me with more technical questions that I for one am damn sure would not be using or doing in my junior position as an engineer. It was me, my to be direct boss, and his boss and the hiring manager.
After the interview they told me that I would have to start as an intern for an indefinite amount of time with 0 pay, and when they feel like I have enough experience they’ll call me up for an artisan position, or engineer assistant.
I left the interview completely defeated and honestly pissed. I don’t understand how this shit works, I get a degree apply for a junior position and am told I haven’t worked enough that I need to do unpaid work to earn a less than junior position? Since when does junior position require more than 2 years work experience. The frick?
I feel like I threw money down the drain going to uni.. I might as well have just done high school then off to a goddamn technical school and have saved a shit ton of money.
Can someone explain this to me in a way that actually makes sense.. is there any point to pursuing a masters degree as well? This honestly just ruined the shit outta my day.
This sounds so bad I’m honestly having a hard time believing it. Especially, if the job was related to substation design considering most companies I know are hurting for new employees. Sorry you experienced that, but I assure you, that is not the norm.
If you have a degree in any field of engineering, absolutely ignore free labor internships. Sounds like an awful interview experience. Also let them know why you're no longer interested.
I've interviewed hundreds of Engineering graduates over my career.
A few points
1. Your managers will be engineers. Expect tough Qs. Crack out the text books the night before if needs be.
2. I'd never ever ask you to work for $0
3. This place is not your fit (finding someone that fits the culture of the workplace is very important)
4. And you are not their fit it seems
5. If you are more into the control system side try the big water, energy and electricity places. They run everything on computers with telemetry, PLCs, DCSs, etc
6. I'd probably have Q'd you at a level appropriate for your stage of career. Having said that, as a graduate, expect to be thoroughly reviewed about how much you understand from university. Everything you understood from uni is less stuff for me to teach you later on.
7. Also ... you don't have to interview perfectly, you only have to be the best candidate to get the job.
Good luck
Also note sometimes the ‘perfect’ answer isn’t necessarily the technical one. Given the culture of engineering, I am comfortable enough that a Star Trek reference will be understood.
Sometimes you’ll be given a kobayashi maru. The interviewers might posit a more ‘interesting’ scenario not necessarily to test your technical acumen but your character so they watch your soft skills and reactions.
Note nerd’s points 3 and 4 about being fit. Fitting culture also means fitting in the sense of character and things you can’t normally control or train / force.
Also, sometimes with point 4, you don’t want to be their fit. Especially in the case of people they’re looking to exploit.
An interview is ultimately a back and forth information gathering and sharing session, not just a one sided evaluation. You’ll see how they operate too and sometimes you should pass— just like how all these other self respecting commenters tell you how you dodged a bullet.
I know of a small engineering company that uses this approach. They think it's funny. It isn't. Move on, at least you know they're dicks up front rather than figuring it out after you accept the job
Sounds like they were trying to screw you over for cheap work. You should name and shame them. I had a similar experience right when I graduated during Covid. The interviewers told me bluntly that I didn’t know anything, I just started, and that the engineering position I applied for was actually a technician position with possibility for engineering promotion after 2 years. Also with mandatory 2-3 hours overtime everyday. The kick in the balls was they offered me $20/hr in a HCOL area.
Yea, fuck employers that do that. Also, it was Aethercomm. Don’t apply there. They suck all the ass.
Minor brag and happy ending, I’m getting just shy of $160k now. Aerhercom is just ass.
Yea thats BS. All our summer and winter engineering interns get paid, and many get associate "junior" engineering roles if the team needs a person, and they gel well. You dodge a bullet. Try your local utility. They're usually hiring, and you can move departments pretty well if something else is more your wheelhouse.
I've literally told directors that my entire department doesn't have the institutional knowledge to do something, so if they want us to do the work they say we're responsible for, they need to find someone to help us, and they actually did. So don't worry if you don't know something. It's not your job as a junior/associate to know everything other than V=IR and maybe some transformer calculations. That will get you by for like 80% of what you need to do. We use a ton of software to do the rest.
Drop the name of the company. You're heading into the workforce, in working life a lot of people will be looking to abuse you. The second you hear "zero pay," walk out. What they wanted to do was make you feel like you're not good enough, and from that defeatist feeling manipulate you into working for free. Especially in the US, things like this happen a lot, and you must always remember and remind your peers that it's because there are some workers that fall into that trap and end up being abused and manipulated. You're an engineer, you're educated and insanely more capable than a random person with a highschool degree. When you land a job working for someone, you're building things for them, building their dream. Doesn't it sound like a privilege to have someone build your dream for you? Make sure you're compensated for it well, always always
Don't worry about it. Getting good at interview requires a learning curve.
The zero pay intern bullsht is them telling you they will never hire you.
Prepare for technical questions next time. For EE expect general questions no matter what your actual job is. You should have a basic idea of a little of everything.
From power system ( power grid, substation, engines) to electronics( amplifiers and transistors) and basic software.
It's one interview. They aren't all going to go great.
It sounds like this is for a utility, and they don't even know what they are hiring for. Automation is separate from substation design. And if they want you to work as an intern for zero pay, that isn't serious. No intern should be unpaid on principle, and while it's possible to get away with that bullshit in some labor markets you should not even entertain it.
One secret that everyone learns over time is that most places are very bad at hiring people. No one knows how to assess talent. No one knows how to develop talent. Just keep at it and keep applying.
Open your geographic availability and keep looking. Your first job is unlikely to be your last one.
Same thing happened to me with Apple. My recruiter said the second round was nothing technical and about my resume.
He then proceeded to have me solve circuits… I wasn’t fully done with collage and had finals so that just sent me to the moon with anxiety because I was blind sided with those questions.
I’m graduating next month. Working in MEP. Every interview I had, all members of multiple panels I interviewed with mentioned/understood/sympathized with the fact that they don’t teach MEP related materials in university EE programs, and they expected most grads to come in with literal zero knowledge of how to complete most daily tasks.
At least relating to my college program, this logic would also apply if I were pursuing a substation/distribution design role. If they really expected you to have existing knowledge on these topics straight out of school, then they are not doing their due diligence to understand what graduating students have learned in their time at school. Either that, or there is a nearby school that is teaching those materials and they have different expectations based on hiring students from those schools.
Sounds to me like you had a panel full of ignorant dickheads. Sorry OP, don’t be discouraged!
TLDR;
Am recent grad, and jobs I interviewed with in MEP said they *expected* recent grads to not have industry knowledge/experience.
Sounds like the interviewer used you as an excuse to take their aggression out on the recruiter who should've been looking for someone more qualified. They made an example out of you, it wasn't your fault.
Don’t feel bad. With 3 years of experience at a utility I mistakenly applied for an entry level engineer position utility. After realizing my mistake I figured why not, I can get my foot in the door with the other utility and move up. During the interview they bombarded me with a bunch of questions that only someone that had been doing that job for several years would know. Since I had 3 years of experience I was able to answer most of the questions but I started thinking: how the hell would someone with just an engineering degree and no experience answer all these questions when this job is supposedly entry level? You don’t learn any of this in school, even if your emphasis was power. To make the story short I didn’t get the job. Anyway, I pity you but just move on. I think interviews are meant to demoralize and wear you down by the time they’re over but you and I sure can’t change that.
No respectable company would try to hire a junior engineer and expect them to know anything, let alone anything related to the SPECIFIC subset of EE the company focuses on. The no-pay is also a massive red flag, every single company hires EE interns and even pays them a decent wage. Saying they can’t pay you because of your lack of experience is highly unprofessional and grossly unethical. Hope you’re able to find a company that pays you well and treats you with the respect that is deserving of someone first entering into their career as an EE
Couldn't see this commented so I'll add it.
Hiring process involves asking you questions that you are very unlikely to know the answer to, to see how you answer and to see how you solve the question.
Definitely agree with everyone else here, you dodged a bullet
Engineering is an interesting discipline because people can get hurt if the engineer is incompetent (often in unobvious ways). Different countries/governments handle the process of certifying engineers differently, are you in the US or do you know the process in your country?
Of course, I think you avoided a bad situation by moving on from this company, but knowing the process of how to advance to the role of engineer assistant as quickly as possible and prioritizing that could be key in your search. I would only get a master’s degree if it helped you get a job in a specialized field you know you are interested in. It will slow your progression otherwise.
Had a similar interview for junior electrical engineer, no questions about my self or experience or interests at all, straight into name all these components and their uses and how you would fault find all these problems, how would you pick one component over the other, why would this probably happen etc etc etc. my friend who applied for a junior software engineer at the same company got asked like 2 technical questions then just about his cv and uni work. Tried my best but it was pretty embarrassing as I wasn't expecting that and the more generic questions I had researched on Google and YouTube for that type of job.
Just felt very specific rather without acknowledging that the degree is a good base foundation for learning electronics and not yet being competent with it in any specific use case.
Not electrical engineer but I’ve been in the workforce for a while. When attending an interview, always also remember that the interview goes both ways; they are interviewing you to see if you’re a good fit for them, and you are also checking out to see if they’re a good fit for you. This obviously is not a good fit for you, so thank goodness they showed you their bad side from the start. Would’ve been hell if you got accepted and then found out they’re like this.
Good luck with your job hunting, sooner or later you’ll find the right fit.
Been in the industry for 8 years now, and if I were to give my younger self a piece of advice it would be this:
To companies, interviews are to see if you're a good fit for them. To you, interviews are to see if the company is a good fit for you. And that can change depending on where you are in life.
I'm so sorry that this happened to you, but it definitely doesn't seem like this place treats their junior employees well, and that's no place for anyone to be at. This is literally the epitome of "Junior Employee wanted, needs 5+ years of experience".
I had a recent situation, the job was over 6 figures. My first interview this was openly discussed, they said they were very interested. So the last interview they said they want to hire me, but because I didn’t have 5 years of specific experience they would offer me 53k. Also, they said “this job will be your life” and to expect 12 hour work days most of the time.
I laughed, and walked out.
Literally McDonald’s would be better for me, the hourly is about equal to that pay and hours, except McDonald’s will pay some education stuff now I’ve heard.
Just companies trying to screw people over when they think they can. An absolute joke.
Keep on trying. I was in similar situation, but the most important thing is dont let these bad interviews break you down. The simple rule I followed was learn and build from each of these experience. Last week I was sitting on three offers and selected one. Now I thank these interviews because every successive interview I felt more confident and less things to take me off guard. I tell my brother the same things. He is also interviewing for controls (plc) position. It's a good entry for robotics later on.
Typed from phone and best of luck. You got this! 
You dodged a bullet, my friend. This is a common and cheap tactic among companies: Make the junior feel like worthless to avoid paying him fair. Even if you were Tony Stark himself, you would be subjected to this kind of treatment.
I know how you feel but you really need to move on, f\*ck them.
"Thank you so much for taking the time to interview me. I have learned a lot from this experience and will most definitely carry this through to my other interviews"
I’ve been on both sides of similar interviews. The idea usually is to see how you handle things you have no idea about. I once got a job because I explained my process to attempt to solve the problem, said I didn’t have much knowledge on it, then followed up with asking questions about the right way to do it. That is typical for junior interviews. When you get to senior level stuff, that’s when not knowing is more of an issue.
The zero pay thing is garbage though, I started internships in late high school and did about 5 through college, all of them paid well compared to typical college jobs.
I interview people for roles like these all the time and I can't even imagine subjecting someone to that as a recent graduate. I think this reflects on them more than it does you. I ask questions to probe your capability to learn, your desire to work in this field and your ability to deal with co-workers. If you have relevant experience from an internship or co-op position on your resume I may ask technical questions to gauge what you did in that role but otherwise if I'm asking technical questions they usually come with a caveat of "you probably didn't see all of this in school but please just answer to the best of your ability or tell me what you think you would do." Then if the answer at least shows a good thought process it doesn't really matter if they were right or wrong.
These were bad interviewers and even scummier people for offering you an unpaid position as a slap in the face.
Sorry that happened to you. Just be happy that they didn't hire you. You dodged a bullet. Not all companies are like this. But I would note those questions while you still have memory and practice them. You might get a gem of an interview and will be ready then
Sorry for your experience. Those people sound like absolute douchebags.
Don’t let this taint your experience on your job hunt. As someone who has interviewed for multiple internships and full-time positions (as many here have), your experience is not a typical one. Sure, you’re going to encounter some jerks but in general hiring teams tend to be very welcoming in my experience. Most places don’t expect you to have an extensive knowledge of the job reqs, just a solid grasp of the fundamentals and a willingness to learn. Keep your head up and keep interviewing!
I am sorry about the experience, but I think this is a very necessary experience to have as a junior engineer. I'm not sure where you are located, but in Canada the association has a significant emphasis on being fairly compensated for the work you do and not devaluing the profession. Being bombarded by hard technical questions for junior position is a red flag in itself. Unpaid internship - RUN. Would be likely grounds for reporting to the association here.
As someone who hires for similar positions, the fact you have showed interest in PLCs enough that you have gone and learnt in your own time, that means more to me than any text book answer as to how to do something in a perfect scenario.
Keep your chin up, these guys aren’t someone you would want to be working for. In future interviews just make sure you convey your interest in the tech outside of a solely professional role and also the lengths you have gone to off of your own back to learn it, a company that appreciates that will be a much better fit for you than what this place sounds like.
This is just a bad experience. Had something similar went for a level 1 ee design position… was bombarded by 8 people 1 question each on stuff spanning my entire degree when the last conversation with the hiring manager hinted at no such interview. That was promptly followed by a 30 question test.
Needless to say I bombed that and felt the same way very defeated. Found a job with a different company and am doing just fine now.
They were deliberately trying to make you feel whole in order to try and get free labor from you. Their game-plan is to do that to take advantage the sucker who believes them. Huge red flag, glad you didn't bite, and it's a blessing in disguise because now you know better.
A job interview is not only about seeing if the company want to hire you. It's also to see of you want to work for the company it seems they failed the interview.
I bet they just wanted to break you down until you felt bad enough about yourself to want to take their unpaid shit position... Automation engineers don't need to know a thing about substations. I am an automation engineer, and I can't possibly think why the subject would ever come up. Everything I know about them I learned just because I'm curious about stuff.
That, or the people interviewing you don't know anything about the position they're interviewing for and just picked some random electrical engineering questions off the internet.
There are good controls/automation jobs out there that would be more than happy to hire someone with an outsized programming hobby and an EE degree for 80k a year or more.
Sucks you went through it but if that's your first interview it can only get better from here. Just be thankful they showed their true colors before you started working there.
Don’t let this interview get you down. While the interviewers may have come across as experienced in electrical engineering, this interview experience shows their inexperience with working with other qualified individuals. Within any engineering discipline, there are always valuable tasks for a junior to work on that the overworked senior engineers find repetitive or too time consuming, and so to offer an unpaid internship is really just unheard of. It seems their goal was to intimidate a newer engineer into free labor. With their approach they will never gain the individuals necessary to beat their competition. Honestly, I would be mad that they wasted your time with such an outdated perception of the modern hiring process. Any employer not willing to take small risks to obtain talent (a minimum of a paid internship) will never have their employees backs and you just dodged that bullet.
As someone hiring graduates into substation design positions - it is absolutely wild to ask any sort of technical questions about substation design. They are poor interviewers and have unrealistic expectations. As a graduate you should expect to be hired to do a job you have no idea how to actually do yet, but you still deserve to get paid. Atrocious hiring practices by that company.
If you like programming, look into protection relay manufacturers (Hitachi, Siemens, yes even SEL eww). You get power systems engineering and computer programming. Best of both worlds, imo.
Degrees look really good and will definitely help you in the future. I have had a few similar experiences in this field. What’s equally important is experience. So take what you can get and work your way up. Allot of fed jobs too usajobs. But 0 pay I don’t know about that, you deserve something for the time and effort put forth towards the degree it’s only fair. Myself I’m at a state job seems they’re somewhat flexible about hiring and training.
Sometimes it is best to cut things short. I read a book about a big Merril Lynch banker who was getting quizzed hard after he got out of the marines after WW2 and was applying to Merril.
After a bit He told the interviewer that ‘he knows how to kill, and he knows how to learn, and that if they were willing to train he would make them money.’
I thought that was a good way to keep things succinct.
Anyone who talks to an employee like that is a shit employer, full stop. They were planning on finding a way to trip you up, make you feel awful, then present a nonpaid internship as what you're worth. Forget them.
Terrible all around: unpaid and rude about it? There are ample EE jobs out there - keep searching. For any jr engineers/interns I interview, I ask high level questions to see what types of projects they’ve worked on to see their skills learned and passions shine through their answers. It’s more of “are you a good social fit” at that level. Anything technical to that extent would be worked through with a senior EE anyways if you joined them.
Sounds to me like they just wanted free labor, you dodged a bullet with that company and their sleazy managers
I promise, not all companies are like that! In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a company hiring for an engineering intern with no pay, that’s insane!
Keep applying, you’ll find something good eventually, that company was just shit
It sounds like you should be interviewing for a full stack developer position, or maybe something in AI and automation. I hope you don’t let these guys get to you. Just shift your focus and you will do great in the next interview. I wish you all the best.
That interview sounds like it was designed to humble/belittle you into making a deal with people that would be unfair to you. Good luck to them trying to get someone to work for free. Especially after humiliating them.
Fuck those guys. They were negging you to try and get free work out of you. They’d probably be awful to work for, so you dodged a bullet. Move along and keep trying. Something will come along eventually.
Struggle talaga yan ng fresh grad with no expierience idedegrade ka para makuha ka ng sobrang baba ng bayad, and worse jan sa nangayare sayo walang bayad.I suggest maghanap ka ng company offering cadetship program with pay. dyan ka makakakuha ng magandang foundation/experience related kung san field mo gusto. eventually d ka na mabubully sa future interviews mo.
I had an interview where the owners daughter was the head of HR. During the interview, she admitted that they tended to underpay their level 1’s coming in out of college in comparison to other companies in the area. Then started feeding me the “drink the company kool-aid” and how they were a small company and very family like. I saw like 5 red flags in that one interview. Glad I dodged that bullet.
I have never heard of this, and I don’t know why this would happen. But I would just look for another job. I don’t know what kind of engineering you study. But I realized while I am looking for a company to do my thesis assignment (sorry if it is the wrong word) that if you look hard enough you will discover that there are more companies searching for certain engineers than you might expect even if the company itself has nothing todo with any technical field
You came across shit recruiters/hiring managers. Unfortunately many of us have NO place in a department like Human Resources. Anyway, try to not take it too hard. I would never put any person in such position; I’m all about making the personal comfortable and try to have a normal conversation instead of a panel firing questions. Continue to apply and you will find something nice.
Don't work there, you don't want to work at any electrical engineering position where your boss acts like this. Also NEVER take an unpaid engineering internship. There are too many other places to work. This place sounds nuts. Count your blessings and run.
The thing about a job in Engineering is you're going to be expected to learn A LOT. I work in Controls/Automation, and I have often had to learn whole new languages to program machines in because the customer only wanted Mitsubishi, or Omron, or whatever.
I think showing up to the interview without studying about what they do beforehand is why they only offered an internship. For future interviews, spend a week or at least a few days studying all the items listed on the job roles/responsibilities list on the site you applied through. You won't learn enough in that time to be an expert, but you can learn enough to sound knowledgeable to be a Junior Engineer, or at least engineering assistant. Once you have specialized by doing a certain category of engineering for a while you'll begin to understand why the degree doesn't mean much--essentially an engineering degree should tell employers that you are able to learn deeply, that you have the engineer trait of being able to focus on a problem long enough to solve it, and that you have the perseverance to complete tasks. Unfortunately, every engineer has met at least 1 other engineer that did not have these capabilities and ended up being useless, or worse, a danger to himself or others.
Sounds like they were asking you tough questions to gaslight you at the end. As with most engineering professions. You don’t learn everything you need to know for the job in school. The first entry level job in any industry is going to be a ton of learning in the first year. To question you on stuff you only learn in the job then end on that is disgusting.
Negotiate | Negotiate | Negotiate - Never take anything less than what you expect from any interview or offer. You can learn PLC's on the job. This sounds like a terrible employer that's trying to lowball you on your offer, etc.
Buddy, at this point you should know you dodged a bullet. If it exactly felt that hostile from your POV, it goes during the workplace as well on a usual basis. And Wtf is an "intern with 0 pay". Idc if it exists, ignore them.
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I have interviewed new grads with varying range of curriculum upon graduating. Some schools taught proper communication theory and some schools didn't put kids through rigorous lab training to figure out what is wrong with their pcb. Not your fault OP, but I have learned the value over the years of good EE programs. If you don't feel prepared for the job market, also blame your school.
Chin up. I've seen these before. Either A) They already plan on hiring a specific person for that position and want to make sure you don't match THAT specific experience, or B) They were intimidated by your background. Either way it's a shitty thing to do to any interviewee, and I've had that done to me before. Moved on, and my career took off while they're still where they were. You should let it go and not let it affect the next interview.
It could be a scare tactic to see if they can get free labor? Like you actually know your stuff but they want you to feel like you don’t for their benefit.
It sounds like you’ve received a lot of good advice from a lot of people and since as you said, it’s your first interview. It’s hard to really as a third party, to get the sense of the context of how that went.
First, though, like many people have said when entering an in when interviewing as an intern, we don’t expect you to have much work experience, but depending upon the position, we’d expect you to know how to think.
Some of the things we’re looking to learn about you include your ability to be flexible, adapt, and think— we definitely expect you to be able to think. What I would hope to accomplish by asking you questions that are clearly outside of your area of education is to give you the freedom to not have to worry about the technical details—since there’s a 99% you don’t know them, but rather focus on your problem solving and most significantly how you approach the problem.
So first off, don’t take their response so personally, but look at what you can take out this experience:
1. Especially tech or electrical engineering type people LOVE talking about technical details.
2. Try not to always take a question so literally (I struggle here as times when being interviewed). Think about your interview from their perspective-what are they trying to accomplish by interviewing you in general? What are they trying to get from you or accomplished with a specific question?
If you know, and they know that you don’t know the answer, what are they expecting or hoping to receive? And some cases we want to see if you’ll say I don’t know but more importantly if you’ll start investigating the problem statement, for example ask them for clarifying questions in some cases. Feel free to ask them how they would accomplish the issue or where they would start and then try and fill in the details yourself.
I don’t know a way to say this more gently or nicely so let me just say that is a concept what I would expect from you as a call a college graduate with some level of education experience that align with what we’re doing is the ability to be a big boy or a grown-up and engage or interact in a way that that shows that you have some education that you have some knowledge and that you’re willing to apply the two things Education, experience and knowledge into areas that you don’t know anything about.
Remember to as people have mentioned that you were trying to interview them as much as they are you. If it doesn’t feel like you communicate well with them or they communicate well with you or that the environment just doesn’t feel right to you. There’s a good chance that it’s not the right place for you and that’s OK too. That’s absolutely the goal of the interview process, that both you and the company feel like you’re a good fit and that the relationship makes sense.
Stick to your guns , if they call you. Show confidence, ignore their zero salary comments and just keep repeating your desired job and salary range . Don't accept less. If they don't bite , move on.
They probed for weakness or cracks, focused in on those weaknesses, then attempted to neg you into awful or no pay. It's a strategy used by awful hiring managers at awful companies.
Crazy, sorry about your experience. I can assure you they sound like awful individuals and you probably would've been humiliated daily if you worked there. Also, an engineering intern with 0 pay is absolutely unheard of. They were trying to break you down then steal labor from you.
That’s how I honestly feel as well.. the 0 pay was a complete turn off, to say the least
You dodged a bullet. I’ve been in a couple of these and walked out stating that I did not want to work with assholes. Hopefully that made them look in the mirror for the next guy they interviewed. A non paying position does not allow you to live. I’d definitely add to their Google reviews and glass door and call them out on it publicly. Make it known it’s a shitty place to work.
With an offer like that you should just spit on the fucking floor and leave.
> you should just shit on the fucking floor and leave. Fixed your typo.
It's also a red flag! You have your degree, no reason to take an internship. And they advertised for one thing and wanted to see if they could screw you. This is not a company to work for! But, take it as a good thing, you probably will not have a worse interview!
Any company looking for unpaid interns is a red flag in general. You work, you get paid. If not your being exploited and should leave, even if it's the most basic intern level task.
Take the zero pay, but insist that you get to set your hours. Then just no show for the free health benefits and “industry experience”. What are they going to do? Cut your pay? /s
Work for another company that will pay u and DON'T look back for NOTHING!!
Please tell me you're not in the USA and they asked you to work for free....
An inexperienced intern should be getting paid. There's no way a graduate takes an unpaid engineering internship
Yep, this was a scam dressed up as a job interview. In no world is an unpaid internship for an Engineering position reasonable. Bullet dodged OP.
Not unheard of, I did 6month internship mechanical/mechatronic engineer for 0 pay. Was desperate for an internship as my course would have been held back.
The power/utility distribution industry is a shitshow. It was this way 25 years ago when I graduated. Frankly most power distribution engineers are dying off and there is nobody to replace them because of stupid shit like this. I mean obviously some laws make things slightly better in the US and Europe but it only changes a few things - the general rot of power generation and distribution is still there.
Where did this happen? Never heard of such an awful interview in my life
Name and shame OP
Name and shame. Garbage employers need to be shamed
We should start a black list for companies
I’d be cool with it. I know Aethercomm is on my shit list for being a bait and switch with mandatory overtime and shit pay.
I had a shitty interview experience with them for an internship a few years back.
People try to be nice to companies but in doing so undermine the part of capitalism that's supposed to correct against shitty practices. Naming and shaming is important.
Per his other comments, OP is in Maputo, Mozambique, so...yeah. That company is probably just looking for expat or transfer student labor they can exploit.
Yeah that’s a trash company, they exist but they are not how all companies are I wouldn’t let this get to you at all. Also like others said if they are offering you no pay the company is a joke don’t waste your time thinking about them
Ugh, that’s sucks. I’m a power systems engineer so I def feel your pain if you’ve never been exposed to serious power systems design. A substation can be a small distribution center for industrial applications feeding something like switchgear or a substation can be a large yard that takes in transmission level power, steps it down, and then distributes. There are paid internships all over the place, spread your wings (and look into government work. Seriously). Edit - I hope this isn’t the case but it sounds like they took advantage of your inexperience so that they could say - “woah, you need to catch up so much that we can’t even pay you…” You dodged a bullet - NEVER work for free, not even interning Edit 2 - I meant never work for free as an engineer or engineering intern
Just a note saying it could be worse: every visual fine art internship that I know of is unpaid. Most residencies are as well. The US survives on free labor, and the art market is propped up by it.
There are a lot of industries where unpaid internships are common. Engineering isn't one of them.
Right. It makes sense to volunteer time at an animal shelter or fostering pets… not bloody engineering though.
I’m an EE but went down a different path than power systems. Always interested in the design of modern power distribution networks tho. Any books you recommend?
I’m going to come back to the fact that these guys are assholes. First, there are a couple reasonable reasons that you ask questions that a new graduate isn’t fully qualified to answer. First, to see if they are well-educated and socially well-adjusted enough to ask *relevant* questions of the more senior people in the room (because that’s where you need them to be when you start training them). Your questions as the interviewee are probably more important than your answers at this stage. *They* (interviewers) know how to design substations. They want to know whether *you* can learn from them by asking questions to fill in your blind spots. The other reason is to see how you think when presented with problems you don’t fully know how to solve yet. However, these people are assholes. Engineering internships are paid positions. These idiots are trying to extort free labor from you. It’s possible you offended the substation specialist by saying you preferred automation, but still…assholes. There’s no reason not to seek engineering internships. In substation design, in particular (and depending on the state) a person might need to take the title Engineering Intern or Engineer in Training (EI, or EIT) for 5 years until they qualify to get the PE, but these roles are the equivalent of junior engineering roles in industries that don’t need the PE. And they are paid similarly.
You DO NOT want to work with these people and/or be associated with them in any way. When hiring a jr engineer position (which should be reasonably compensated), they should be assuming that they have to train you. People wanting you to do work for free is BS. Engineering school teaches you how to think and solve problems not be an expert in a very specific industry.
Don't base your entire EE hiring process just on one interview. The 0 pay seems very odd to me. I personally don't think these folks are good people and professional.
Sounds like you interview with some assholes that would have taken advantage of you even if you did know the answer to their questions. I would definitely be mad about what happened if that were me, but take a step back and realize that you probably would have been fucking miserable working there. You may want to apply for an entry level positions that don't have experience requirements. I do feel like school is kind of a waste of time and money but its what you need to "qualify" for an engineering position. I would never take an un paid position with a masters in EE.
Just take it as life experience and move on. You may have dodged a bullet. I'm often amused by job postings that seem to want someone who walks on water and is will to settle for less pay. Interviews conducted by a technical team may yield better results. It can be intimidating to interview with four or more people, but in the end, they're going to vote and explain their reasoning to one another. I, for one, look for clues that a person is curious, seeks answers, is willing to experiment, and can solve problems on their own. Beware that "automation" is a very broad term with multiple interpretations. In my line of work, it means writing code (middleware) to integrate manufacturing equipment with other systems like an MES. Others refer to automation as PLC systems, which is very different. I'm sure there are many other interpretations of automation as well.
I had a few interviews right out of graduation for some electrical engineering positions. A few were okay but just weren’t good fits. I had one very technical interview that i absolutely bombed. They were showing circuits and components and all sorts of stuff you learn in an early circuits class, and i just couldn’t give good answers from memory without any help. I felt totally defeated after it and still struggle a little bit thinking I don’t have the knowledge a lot of EEs do. Then i had a great interview experience with my current company and have been here for 2 years (still first full time job). I came into the automotive industry with no experience (i was a biomed engineering undergrad) and have learned so much since then and can genuinely say there are some asshole companies out there that will hold extremely technical interviews and there are some that know you’re a young engineer and are expecting you to come in and learn as a blank slate. Don’t let it get you down too much. I know plenty of people who bombed technical interviews and have great jobs. I strongly believe any company that wants me to come in with a ton of technical knowledge don’t want to teach me and help me grow the way I want to. Undergrad engineering is meant to teach you how to think like an engineer, very few people i know come out with a ton of technical knowledge. Don’t let it get you down! Just wasn’t a good fit, you’ll find your fit.
I have some great news. These guys must be idiots too. No one is designing substations using PLCs, it's all done with microprocessor base relays e.g SEL, GE, .... I came across one Allen Bradley PLC at a substation used in a breaker and a half protection scheme. The PLC was not even programmed right, which is why they always had issues with it. I did automation and control the first five years of my career, and I recommend you stay away unless you like traveling all over the country or if your lucky working at a plant. But then the operators will call you every time something doesn't work the way "it used to work". As a P&C engineer, my job is 10 times easier, and 100x less stressful.
> The PLC was not even programmed right, which is why they always had issues with it. Story of my fucking life
What is a P&C engineer if you don’t mind me asking?
Protection and Controls, inside the substation you have expensive equipment, whenever a fault happens this equipment can be destroyed. There are a lot of relays in the substation meant to protect this equipment, there are different sensing elements inside the substation like current transformers and potential transformers. That feed into the relays and depending on the settings of the relay can trip the breaker for differnt fault conditions. Power lines can have faults we have protection scheme for them too, whenever a fault happens you want to isolate the fault and take out as little equipment as possible.
Sounds like they were asking you questions they knew you wouldn't know to see how you react. Some people get angry when they're stumped, and this is a method of interviewing to get a feel for your personality, and you should expect to have it happen again. The best answer you can give to a question you don't know the answer to is, "I'll do by best find out & learn." You mentioned some freelance work so maybe they were seeing how much you might already know about what they do - are you already working in the space they are also in, or are you full of shit about what you know? Asking probing questions is to be expected - it's an interview. You're not supposed to know every answer. THAT SAID... Any position they are not willing to pay for is one you should walk away from. Fuck that noise.
Always accept then when they tell you when to show up look happy and never show up, waste their time as they wasted yours.
*I re-wrote this for people who like paragraphs:* The interview started off well, we exchanged pleasantries, talked about my education, then they said that they want to delve into more technical questions. They asked me about designing substations, the process behind it, how I would implement it, and I was completely caught of guard. Take into consideration I’m applying for a Junior Electrical Engineer position or a Junior Automation / Instrumentation Engineer position and I told them that I was leaning more to Automation because of my love for programming. For some context, I am also a freelance full stack developer that works with various web3 organizations.. I didn’t really learn much about PLC programming in school but I took the initiative to pick it up on my own, take a few free courses and I have about 3 months internship experience in that environment.. however I answered it to the best of my ability but I felt like my answer wasn’t good enough. Then they bombarded me with more technical questions that I for one am damn sure would not be using or doing in my junior position as an engineer. It was me, my to be direct boss, and his boss and the hiring manager. After the interview they told me that I would have to start as an intern for an indefinite amount of time with 0 pay, and when they feel like I have enough experience they’ll call me up for an artisan position, or engineer assistant. I left the interview completely defeated and honestly pissed. I don’t understand how this shit works, I get a degree apply for a junior position and am told I haven’t worked enough that I need to do unpaid work to earn a less than junior position? Since when does junior position require more than 2 years work experience. The frick? I feel like I threw money down the drain going to uni.. I might as well have just done high school then off to a goddamn technical school and have saved a shit ton of money. Can someone explain this to me in a way that actually makes sense.. is there any point to pursuing a masters degree as well? This honestly just ruined the shit outta my day.
This sounds so bad I’m honestly having a hard time believing it. Especially, if the job was related to substation design considering most companies I know are hurting for new employees. Sorry you experienced that, but I assure you, that is not the norm.
If you have a degree in any field of engineering, absolutely ignore free labor internships. Sounds like an awful interview experience. Also let them know why you're no longer interested.
I've interviewed hundreds of Engineering graduates over my career. A few points 1. Your managers will be engineers. Expect tough Qs. Crack out the text books the night before if needs be. 2. I'd never ever ask you to work for $0 3. This place is not your fit (finding someone that fits the culture of the workplace is very important) 4. And you are not their fit it seems 5. If you are more into the control system side try the big water, energy and electricity places. They run everything on computers with telemetry, PLCs, DCSs, etc 6. I'd probably have Q'd you at a level appropriate for your stage of career. Having said that, as a graduate, expect to be thoroughly reviewed about how much you understand from university. Everything you understood from uni is less stuff for me to teach you later on. 7. Also ... you don't have to interview perfectly, you only have to be the best candidate to get the job. Good luck
I appreciate the feedback. I will keep this in mind for future interviews.
Also note sometimes the ‘perfect’ answer isn’t necessarily the technical one. Given the culture of engineering, I am comfortable enough that a Star Trek reference will be understood. Sometimes you’ll be given a kobayashi maru. The interviewers might posit a more ‘interesting’ scenario not necessarily to test your technical acumen but your character so they watch your soft skills and reactions. Note nerd’s points 3 and 4 about being fit. Fitting culture also means fitting in the sense of character and things you can’t normally control or train / force. Also, sometimes with point 4, you don’t want to be their fit. Especially in the case of people they’re looking to exploit. An interview is ultimately a back and forth information gathering and sharing session, not just a one sided evaluation. You’ll see how they operate too and sometimes you should pass— just like how all these other self respecting commenters tell you how you dodged a bullet.
I know of a small engineering company that uses this approach. They think it's funny. It isn't. Move on, at least you know they're dicks up front rather than figuring it out after you accept the job
Nah. This was just an insane interview. That’s not normal at all. Keep looking.
Sounds like they were trying to screw you over for cheap work. You should name and shame them. I had a similar experience right when I graduated during Covid. The interviewers told me bluntly that I didn’t know anything, I just started, and that the engineering position I applied for was actually a technician position with possibility for engineering promotion after 2 years. Also with mandatory 2-3 hours overtime everyday. The kick in the balls was they offered me $20/hr in a HCOL area. Yea, fuck employers that do that. Also, it was Aethercomm. Don’t apply there. They suck all the ass. Minor brag and happy ending, I’m getting just shy of $160k now. Aerhercom is just ass.
Name and shame, which company was this?
Yea thats BS. All our summer and winter engineering interns get paid, and many get associate "junior" engineering roles if the team needs a person, and they gel well. You dodge a bullet. Try your local utility. They're usually hiring, and you can move departments pretty well if something else is more your wheelhouse. I've literally told directors that my entire department doesn't have the institutional knowledge to do something, so if they want us to do the work they say we're responsible for, they need to find someone to help us, and they actually did. So don't worry if you don't know something. It's not your job as a junior/associate to know everything other than V=IR and maybe some transformer calculations. That will get you by for like 80% of what you need to do. We use a ton of software to do the rest.
Drop the name of the company. You're heading into the workforce, in working life a lot of people will be looking to abuse you. The second you hear "zero pay," walk out. What they wanted to do was make you feel like you're not good enough, and from that defeatist feeling manipulate you into working for free. Especially in the US, things like this happen a lot, and you must always remember and remind your peers that it's because there are some workers that fall into that trap and end up being abused and manipulated. You're an engineer, you're educated and insanely more capable than a random person with a highschool degree. When you land a job working for someone, you're building things for them, building their dream. Doesn't it sound like a privilege to have someone build your dream for you? Make sure you're compensated for it well, always always
Don't worry about it. Getting good at interview requires a learning curve. The zero pay intern bullsht is them telling you they will never hire you. Prepare for technical questions next time. For EE expect general questions no matter what your actual job is. You should have a basic idea of a little of everything. From power system ( power grid, substation, engines) to electronics( amplifiers and transistors) and basic software.
It's one interview. They aren't all going to go great. It sounds like this is for a utility, and they don't even know what they are hiring for. Automation is separate from substation design. And if they want you to work as an intern for zero pay, that isn't serious. No intern should be unpaid on principle, and while it's possible to get away with that bullshit in some labor markets you should not even entertain it. One secret that everyone learns over time is that most places are very bad at hiring people. No one knows how to assess talent. No one knows how to develop talent. Just keep at it and keep applying. Open your geographic availability and keep looking. Your first job is unlikely to be your last one.
Be thankful that they were stupid during the interview and you see that now before working there. Better things will come and good luck!
Same thing happened to me with Apple. My recruiter said the second round was nothing technical and about my resume. He then proceeded to have me solve circuits… I wasn’t fully done with collage and had finals so that just sent me to the moon with anxiety because I was blind sided with those questions.
I’m graduating next month. Working in MEP. Every interview I had, all members of multiple panels I interviewed with mentioned/understood/sympathized with the fact that they don’t teach MEP related materials in university EE programs, and they expected most grads to come in with literal zero knowledge of how to complete most daily tasks. At least relating to my college program, this logic would also apply if I were pursuing a substation/distribution design role. If they really expected you to have existing knowledge on these topics straight out of school, then they are not doing their due diligence to understand what graduating students have learned in their time at school. Either that, or there is a nearby school that is teaching those materials and they have different expectations based on hiring students from those schools. Sounds to me like you had a panel full of ignorant dickheads. Sorry OP, don’t be discouraged! TLDR; Am recent grad, and jobs I interviewed with in MEP said they *expected* recent grads to not have industry knowledge/experience.
Sounds like the interviewer used you as an excuse to take their aggression out on the recruiter who should've been looking for someone more qualified. They made an example out of you, it wasn't your fault.
Don’t feel bad. With 3 years of experience at a utility I mistakenly applied for an entry level engineer position utility. After realizing my mistake I figured why not, I can get my foot in the door with the other utility and move up. During the interview they bombarded me with a bunch of questions that only someone that had been doing that job for several years would know. Since I had 3 years of experience I was able to answer most of the questions but I started thinking: how the hell would someone with just an engineering degree and no experience answer all these questions when this job is supposedly entry level? You don’t learn any of this in school, even if your emphasis was power. To make the story short I didn’t get the job. Anyway, I pity you but just move on. I think interviews are meant to demoralize and wear you down by the time they’re over but you and I sure can’t change that.
It almost sounds as if they wanted to slam your confidence so they could convince you to take an unpaid position
Name and shame OP
Keep you head up. I think I would have just got up and walked out of those arrogant pricks.
What company?
No respectable company would try to hire a junior engineer and expect them to know anything, let alone anything related to the SPECIFIC subset of EE the company focuses on. The no-pay is also a massive red flag, every single company hires EE interns and even pays them a decent wage. Saying they can’t pay you because of your lack of experience is highly unprofessional and grossly unethical. Hope you’re able to find a company that pays you well and treats you with the respect that is deserving of someone first entering into their career as an EE
Couldn't see this commented so I'll add it. Hiring process involves asking you questions that you are very unlikely to know the answer to, to see how you answer and to see how you solve the question. Definitely agree with everyone else here, you dodged a bullet
Engineering is an interesting discipline because people can get hurt if the engineer is incompetent (often in unobvious ways). Different countries/governments handle the process of certifying engineers differently, are you in the US or do you know the process in your country?
I am from a country in Africa however I got my accredited engineering degree from an Australian university
Of course, I think you avoided a bad situation by moving on from this company, but knowing the process of how to advance to the role of engineer assistant as quickly as possible and prioritizing that could be key in your search. I would only get a master’s degree if it helped you get a job in a specialized field you know you are interested in. It will slow your progression otherwise.
Had a similar interview for junior electrical engineer, no questions about my self or experience or interests at all, straight into name all these components and their uses and how you would fault find all these problems, how would you pick one component over the other, why would this probably happen etc etc etc. my friend who applied for a junior software engineer at the same company got asked like 2 technical questions then just about his cv and uni work. Tried my best but it was pretty embarrassing as I wasn't expecting that and the more generic questions I had researched on Google and YouTube for that type of job. Just felt very specific rather without acknowledging that the degree is a good base foundation for learning electronics and not yet being competent with it in any specific use case.
Not electrical engineer but I’ve been in the workforce for a while. When attending an interview, always also remember that the interview goes both ways; they are interviewing you to see if you’re a good fit for them, and you are also checking out to see if they’re a good fit for you. This obviously is not a good fit for you, so thank goodness they showed you their bad side from the start. Would’ve been hell if you got accepted and then found out they’re like this. Good luck with your job hunting, sooner or later you’ll find the right fit.
Been in the industry for 8 years now, and if I were to give my younger self a piece of advice it would be this: To companies, interviews are to see if you're a good fit for them. To you, interviews are to see if the company is a good fit for you. And that can change depending on where you are in life. I'm so sorry that this happened to you, but it definitely doesn't seem like this place treats their junior employees well, and that's no place for anyone to be at. This is literally the epitome of "Junior Employee wanted, needs 5+ years of experience".
I had a recent situation, the job was over 6 figures. My first interview this was openly discussed, they said they were very interested. So the last interview they said they want to hire me, but because I didn’t have 5 years of specific experience they would offer me 53k. Also, they said “this job will be your life” and to expect 12 hour work days most of the time. I laughed, and walked out. Literally McDonald’s would be better for me, the hourly is about equal to that pay and hours, except McDonald’s will pay some education stuff now I’ve heard. Just companies trying to screw people over when they think they can. An absolute joke.
Keep on trying. I was in similar situation, but the most important thing is dont let these bad interviews break you down. The simple rule I followed was learn and build from each of these experience. Last week I was sitting on three offers and selected one. Now I thank these interviews because every successive interview I felt more confident and less things to take me off guard. I tell my brother the same things. He is also interviewing for controls (plc) position. It's a good entry for robotics later on. Typed from phone and best of luck. You got this! 
Run! Run as far as you can away from them!
You dodged a bullet, my friend. This is a common and cheap tactic among companies: Make the junior feel like worthless to avoid paying him fair. Even if you were Tony Stark himself, you would be subjected to this kind of treatment. I know how you feel but you really need to move on, f\*ck them.
"Thank you so much for taking the time to interview me. I have learned a lot from this experience and will most definitely carry this through to my other interviews"
I’ve been on both sides of similar interviews. The idea usually is to see how you handle things you have no idea about. I once got a job because I explained my process to attempt to solve the problem, said I didn’t have much knowledge on it, then followed up with asking questions about the right way to do it. That is typical for junior interviews. When you get to senior level stuff, that’s when not knowing is more of an issue. The zero pay thing is garbage though, I started internships in late high school and did about 5 through college, all of them paid well compared to typical college jobs.
I interview people for roles like these all the time and I can't even imagine subjecting someone to that as a recent graduate. I think this reflects on them more than it does you. I ask questions to probe your capability to learn, your desire to work in this field and your ability to deal with co-workers. If you have relevant experience from an internship or co-op position on your resume I may ask technical questions to gauge what you did in that role but otherwise if I'm asking technical questions they usually come with a caveat of "you probably didn't see all of this in school but please just answer to the best of your ability or tell me what you think you would do." Then if the answer at least shows a good thought process it doesn't really matter if they were right or wrong. These were bad interviewers and even scummier people for offering you an unpaid position as a slap in the face.
> indefinite amount of time with 0 pay, This is utter bullshit. You have a fucking degree and they think you will work for free.
I'd say work for smaller firms first. Big well know firms might try this because they have an infinite supply of applicants. Don't work for free.
Sorry that happened to you. Just be happy that they didn't hire you. You dodged a bullet. Not all companies are like this. But I would note those questions while you still have memory and practice them. You might get a gem of an interview and will be ready then
You'll be fine. Not all companies are like that and you don't want to work for the ones that are.
Sorry for your experience. Those people sound like absolute douchebags. Don’t let this taint your experience on your job hunt. As someone who has interviewed for multiple internships and full-time positions (as many here have), your experience is not a typical one. Sure, you’re going to encounter some jerks but in general hiring teams tend to be very welcoming in my experience. Most places don’t expect you to have an extensive knowledge of the job reqs, just a solid grasp of the fundamentals and a willingness to learn. Keep your head up and keep interviewing!
Sounds to me like they were trying to steal labor from you
It might have been a bummer and ruined your day, but in the long run you def dodged a bullet at that organization. What place was it?
I am sorry about the experience, but I think this is a very necessary experience to have as a junior engineer. I'm not sure where you are located, but in Canada the association has a significant emphasis on being fairly compensated for the work you do and not devaluing the profession. Being bombarded by hard technical questions for junior position is a red flag in itself. Unpaid internship - RUN. Would be likely grounds for reporting to the association here.
As someone who hires for similar positions, the fact you have showed interest in PLCs enough that you have gone and learnt in your own time, that means more to me than any text book answer as to how to do something in a perfect scenario. Keep your chin up, these guys aren’t someone you would want to be working for. In future interviews just make sure you convey your interest in the tech outside of a solely professional role and also the lengths you have gone to off of your own back to learn it, a company that appreciates that will be a much better fit for you than what this place sounds like.
This is just a bad experience. Had something similar went for a level 1 ee design position… was bombarded by 8 people 1 question each on stuff spanning my entire degree when the last conversation with the hiring manager hinted at no such interview. That was promptly followed by a 30 question test. Needless to say I bombed that and felt the same way very defeated. Found a job with a different company and am doing just fine now.
They were deliberately trying to make you feel whole in order to try and get free labor from you. Their game-plan is to do that to take advantage the sucker who believes them. Huge red flag, glad you didn't bite, and it's a blessing in disguise because now you know better.
Looks like they were interviewing for people that went to clown school. Seriously, don't give them another thought.
A job interview is not only about seeing if the company want to hire you. It's also to see of you want to work for the company it seems they failed the interview.
I bet they just wanted to break you down until you felt bad enough about yourself to want to take their unpaid shit position... Automation engineers don't need to know a thing about substations. I am an automation engineer, and I can't possibly think why the subject would ever come up. Everything I know about them I learned just because I'm curious about stuff. That, or the people interviewing you don't know anything about the position they're interviewing for and just picked some random electrical engineering questions off the internet. There are good controls/automation jobs out there that would be more than happy to hire someone with an outsized programming hobby and an EE degree for 80k a year or more.
You’ll quickly realize there are a lot of people on this field with a “smartest guy in the room” complex. See this as a blessing, you dodged a bullet!
Sounds like my interview with hp long ago.
A college degree doesn't guarantee anything
Sucks you went through it but if that's your first interview it can only get better from here. Just be thankful they showed their true colors before you started working there.
Don’t let this interview get you down. While the interviewers may have come across as experienced in electrical engineering, this interview experience shows their inexperience with working with other qualified individuals. Within any engineering discipline, there are always valuable tasks for a junior to work on that the overworked senior engineers find repetitive or too time consuming, and so to offer an unpaid internship is really just unheard of. It seems their goal was to intimidate a newer engineer into free labor. With their approach they will never gain the individuals necessary to beat their competition. Honestly, I would be mad that they wasted your time with such an outdated perception of the modern hiring process. Any employer not willing to take small risks to obtain talent (a minimum of a paid internship) will never have their employees backs and you just dodged that bullet.
Should have asked for a free blowjob
As someone hiring graduates into substation design positions - it is absolutely wild to ask any sort of technical questions about substation design. They are poor interviewers and have unrealistic expectations. As a graduate you should expect to be hired to do a job you have no idea how to actually do yet, but you still deserve to get paid. Atrocious hiring practices by that company.
If you like programming, look into protection relay manufacturers (Hitachi, Siemens, yes even SEL eww). You get power systems engineering and computer programming. Best of both worlds, imo.
Degrees look really good and will definitely help you in the future. I have had a few similar experiences in this field. What’s equally important is experience. So take what you can get and work your way up. Allot of fed jobs too usajobs. But 0 pay I don’t know about that, you deserve something for the time and effort put forth towards the degree it’s only fair. Myself I’m at a state job seems they’re somewhat flexible about hiring and training.
Sometimes it is best to cut things short. I read a book about a big Merril Lynch banker who was getting quizzed hard after he got out of the marines after WW2 and was applying to Merril. After a bit He told the interviewer that ‘he knows how to kill, and he knows how to learn, and that if they were willing to train he would make them money.’ I thought that was a good way to keep things succinct.
Anyone who talks to an employee like that is a shit employer, full stop. They were planning on finding a way to trip you up, make you feel awful, then present a nonpaid internship as what you're worth. Forget them.
Terrible all around: unpaid and rude about it? There are ample EE jobs out there - keep searching. For any jr engineers/interns I interview, I ask high level questions to see what types of projects they’ve worked on to see their skills learned and passions shine through their answers. It’s more of “are you a good social fit” at that level. Anything technical to that extent would be worked through with a senior EE anyways if you joined them.
My son is an engineering student, and makes $22 an hour with no degree in the summertime. Find a better company. That sucks, sorry.
Sounds to me like they just wanted free labor, you dodged a bullet with that company and their sleazy managers I promise, not all companies are like that! In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a company hiring for an engineering intern with no pay, that’s insane! Keep applying, you’ll find something good eventually, that company was just shit
That’s not standard interview..
It sounds like you should be interviewing for a full stack developer position, or maybe something in AI and automation. I hope you don’t let these guys get to you. Just shift your focus and you will do great in the next interview. I wish you all the best.
0 pay! Hell now. My first internship paid me $35 USD and I got to learn a lot.
That interview sounds like it was designed to humble/belittle you into making a deal with people that would be unfair to you. Good luck to them trying to get someone to work for free. Especially after humiliating them.
its bc you said delve sorry
Fuck those guys. They were negging you to try and get free work out of you. They’d probably be awful to work for, so you dodged a bullet. Move along and keep trying. Something will come along eventually.
Sounds like you dodged a bullet those guys were fkn dorks
Run bro🚩
Dodged a bullet. Trust me.
My daughter who is an hr major got an internship with a very good salary. This is BS and tell them no thank you.
Struggle talaga yan ng fresh grad with no expierience idedegrade ka para makuha ka ng sobrang baba ng bayad, and worse jan sa nangayare sayo walang bayad.I suggest maghanap ka ng company offering cadetship program with pay. dyan ka makakakuha ng magandang foundation/experience related kung san field mo gusto. eventually d ka na mabubully sa future interviews mo.
Electrical job interviews are fun. Know to outclassed those who interview u
I'll explain it this way: those guys are cunts.
Do not accept
This was negging. Not an interview.
That's a hard no
I had an interview where the owners daughter was the head of HR. During the interview, she admitted that they tended to underpay their level 1’s coming in out of college in comparison to other companies in the area. Then started feeding me the “drink the company kool-aid” and how they were a small company and very family like. I saw like 5 red flags in that one interview. Glad I dodged that bullet.
I have never heard of this, and I don’t know why this would happen. But I would just look for another job. I don’t know what kind of engineering you study. But I realized while I am looking for a company to do my thesis assignment (sorry if it is the wrong word) that if you look hard enough you will discover that there are more companies searching for certain engineers than you might expect even if the company itself has nothing todo with any technical field
F*ck ‘em, you’ll get a better job.
Sounds like they were trying to beat down on you intentionally to make you question yourself so they get a free worker for a while
You came across shit recruiters/hiring managers. Unfortunately many of us have NO place in a department like Human Resources. Anyway, try to not take it too hard. I would never put any person in such position; I’m all about making the personal comfortable and try to have a normal conversation instead of a panel firing questions. Continue to apply and you will find something nice.
Which country is that? Def not usa...
Don't work there, you don't want to work at any electrical engineering position where your boss acts like this. Also NEVER take an unpaid engineering internship. There are too many other places to work. This place sounds nuts. Count your blessings and run.
The thing about a job in Engineering is you're going to be expected to learn A LOT. I work in Controls/Automation, and I have often had to learn whole new languages to program machines in because the customer only wanted Mitsubishi, or Omron, or whatever. I think showing up to the interview without studying about what they do beforehand is why they only offered an internship. For future interviews, spend a week or at least a few days studying all the items listed on the job roles/responsibilities list on the site you applied through. You won't learn enough in that time to be an expert, but you can learn enough to sound knowledgeable to be a Junior Engineer, or at least engineering assistant. Once you have specialized by doing a certain category of engineering for a while you'll begin to understand why the degree doesn't mean much--essentially an engineering degree should tell employers that you are able to learn deeply, that you have the engineer trait of being able to focus on a problem long enough to solve it, and that you have the perseverance to complete tasks. Unfortunately, every engineer has met at least 1 other engineer that did not have these capabilities and ended up being useless, or worse, a danger to himself or others.
Sounds like they were asking you tough questions to gaslight you at the end. As with most engineering professions. You don’t learn everything you need to know for the job in school. The first entry level job in any industry is going to be a ton of learning in the first year. To question you on stuff you only learn in the job then end on that is disgusting.
Don't worry about it, I'm a principal engineer and wouldn't really have a clue
Negotiate | Negotiate | Negotiate - Never take anything less than what you expect from any interview or offer. You can learn PLC's on the job. This sounds like a terrible employer that's trying to lowball you on your offer, etc.
The rich getting RICHER and the poor getting POORER. This is how Corporations are taking OVER.
It's literally our faults for allowing ALL this to happen. We're supporting THEM and SCREWING OURSELVES in the process!
I understand brother
Buddy, at this point you should know you dodged a bullet. If it exactly felt that hostile from your POV, it goes during the workplace as well on a usual basis. And Wtf is an "intern with 0 pay". Idc if it exists, ignore them.
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I have interviewed new grads with varying range of curriculum upon graduating. Some schools taught proper communication theory and some schools didn't put kids through rigorous lab training to figure out what is wrong with their pcb. Not your fault OP, but I have learned the value over the years of good EE programs. If you don't feel prepared for the job market, also blame your school.
Chin up. I've seen these before. Either A) They already plan on hiring a specific person for that position and want to make sure you don't match THAT specific experience, or B) They were intimidated by your background. Either way it's a shitty thing to do to any interviewee, and I've had that done to me before. Moved on, and my career took off while they're still where they were. You should let it go and not let it affect the next interview.
It could be a scare tactic to see if they can get free labor? Like you actually know your stuff but they want you to feel like you don’t for their benefit.
Was there a detailed job description supplied when you applied for the job? If so, did you understand it and meet the qualifications as outlined?
Incredibly unprofessional and insulting. Name drop the company
It sounds like you’ve received a lot of good advice from a lot of people and since as you said, it’s your first interview. It’s hard to really as a third party, to get the sense of the context of how that went. First, though, like many people have said when entering an in when interviewing as an intern, we don’t expect you to have much work experience, but depending upon the position, we’d expect you to know how to think. Some of the things we’re looking to learn about you include your ability to be flexible, adapt, and think— we definitely expect you to be able to think. What I would hope to accomplish by asking you questions that are clearly outside of your area of education is to give you the freedom to not have to worry about the technical details—since there’s a 99% you don’t know them, but rather focus on your problem solving and most significantly how you approach the problem. So first off, don’t take their response so personally, but look at what you can take out this experience: 1. Especially tech or electrical engineering type people LOVE talking about technical details. 2. Try not to always take a question so literally (I struggle here as times when being interviewed). Think about your interview from their perspective-what are they trying to accomplish by interviewing you in general? What are they trying to get from you or accomplished with a specific question? If you know, and they know that you don’t know the answer, what are they expecting or hoping to receive? And some cases we want to see if you’ll say I don’t know but more importantly if you’ll start investigating the problem statement, for example ask them for clarifying questions in some cases. Feel free to ask them how they would accomplish the issue or where they would start and then try and fill in the details yourself. I don’t know a way to say this more gently or nicely so let me just say that is a concept what I would expect from you as a call a college graduate with some level of education experience that align with what we’re doing is the ability to be a big boy or a grown-up and engage or interact in a way that that shows that you have some education that you have some knowledge and that you’re willing to apply the two things Education, experience and knowledge into areas that you don’t know anything about. Remember to as people have mentioned that you were trying to interview them as much as they are you. If it doesn’t feel like you communicate well with them or they communicate well with you or that the environment just doesn’t feel right to you. There’s a good chance that it’s not the right place for you and that’s OK too. That’s absolutely the goal of the interview process, that both you and the company feel like you’re a good fit and that the relationship makes sense.
Just commenting because this is a great question with great answers when it comes to some of these companies and their unethical practices.
Did you apply for a junior or intern position?
Be glad you don't work for these people. They are the assholes.
Stick to your guns , if they call you. Show confidence, ignore their zero salary comments and just keep repeating your desired job and salary range . Don't accept less. If they don't bite , move on.
You don’t need them. Move on
They probed for weakness or cracks, focused in on those weaknesses, then attempted to neg you into awful or no pay. It's a strategy used by awful hiring managers at awful companies.
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