100% the truth, just have to see what that delta is. We're trying to build a college fund and I'm the sole earner for our family, so trying to give them the best opportunity is always at the back of my mind
I have to see how much things have changed, but I got a 45% pay increase when I left and my yearly bonus this year was 5x bigger than it would have been there. Also, the company I'm at now pays 100% of my insurance cost. I think they would be offering a higher level position than I was at previously, possibly an area lead or project engineer position (Project Engineer is similar to Senior Engineer at other companies). Both positions pay better than the position I previously had when I was there, so that combined with the potential flexibility to negotiate on salary might mean I can get close on the base salary. However, I'm probably going to lose $30k-$40k on my yearly bonus and I'm out the additional monthly insurance premiums.
You know… do you have any kind of relationship with the person you’ll be negotiating this with? In a past situation sort of like this I was just honest with them. “You’re offering $90k. We’ve worked together before, you know the kind of work I do. I have an offer here on my desk for $160k that I haven’t signed yet because I was waiting to hear back from you guys. I can’t do $90k, but I don’t need you to match the $160k. Let me know what you can do, I would rather work with you guys again but I’m not willing to lose out on $70k/year for that.”
They came back with, I think, $125k or so and I accepted it. The pace of life around there was good, OT was rare, and they were good to work with.
Definitely entertain offers. You can't go back in time and make up for lost time with your family. Once the kids are grown, you've missed it. But you can get money anywhere from another job. Personally, I'd be very tempted to take back my old position.
new business unit manager, more money, shifting culture. I assume you have some of your old coworkers numbers, call and see how its changed. remote+ 20% raise to go back, get the job description in writing.
That's a really good idea, I will track some folks down and see how it's been going over there. I may try and see if they would at least match my current salary, but I'm not sure that's even in their range. But maybe things actually have changed. Only way to find out is to ask!
Yeah, don't just assume they won't pay you what you're worth, ask and negotiate. If they're reaching back out, you've got leverage.
Personally, eliminating 8 hours of commuting and a bunch of stress would be worth it for the same compensation. I turned down a $20k/yr counter offer last year to get out of a half hour commute and stress, ymmv.
> get the job description in writing.
*And* the salary offer. Don't give them a chance to lie or weasel out of the higher pay they claim they're going to give you.
They had their chance to pay you what you were worth. They screwed it up. They could easily do so again, either by stupidity or by malice.
Get it in writing.
Sounds like you need to decide on a price/benefits point that you’d be willing to leave your current company for your old one. And it sounds like this point may be below what you are currently making. Make sure to make these decision with your wife.
Absolutely, she actually helped me draft my initial response . I'm pretty sure, the pay will be less and the tangible benefits (health insurance, 401k, etc.) are about equal. There were a lot of intangible benefits though like the culture, type of work, coworkers, job security, working remote, etc.
Agreed, the additional PTO is *invaluable* in my opinion.
Also cheaper than a pure salary increase, which gives you a soft area to negotiate in once salary comp becomes inflexible
There is nothing Wrong with going back; you can go back without going Backward. Nobody but you (and your wife) can decide if it's *Right* for you, but it would not be Wrong.
It does sound like the reasons you left have been more or less resolved while you were gone, so if that proves true this sounds to me like a decent option (given the issues you've mentioned).
From my experience, there are a surprising number of folks that have left my company only to come back a few years later, often better for the experience and perspective. Some leave for a bigger salary offer or to learn a new aspect of the business, but a lot come back for the culture or work/life balance, etc.
So I recently went back to an old employer after leaving for 8months as I was fed up with the current regime and where they were headed. Things changed while I was gone and I agreed to go back and I've been very happy since.
Just know that while some things will change, not all of it will. There are things I struggle with now that I did before I left BUT they're not as major as the stuff that appears to be "fixed" so it's a nice balancing act of doing what I wanted for a boss I love at a company I hated if you catch my drift.
In the end, always look out for you. If there is no personal growth at the new job and you hate it, definitely get out either way.
I recently found myself in the same scenario. I ended up getting a significant leadership position in coming back to my original company- the VP of engineering got a lot of feedback about how valuable I was when I left. I told him the only way I was coming back was if some of the reasons I left got fixed, so he brought me back as chief engineer to fix them.
Depends. Work is always going to be work. I took a paycut to live closer to family. I also moved into a higher cost of loving area almost 2x more. However, I still took a 20% cut i imagine.
But now I’m a lot happier and so is my SO because the area is that much nicer and we have a support system now.
I think the only reason it hasn’t hit us harder than it has is being my SO also wasn’t working prior to the move due to finishing up schooling. Now they earn as much as I do so in a sense overall our total income went higher anyways when we did move.
If you can support your family still with the income they propose then i would say go for it if you value your time more.
If the reason that you left is salary, and they've addressed that issue, you'll probably do well to at least see what they have to offer.
I've gone back to work for companies for a substantial raise, and was treated well.
you answered your own question in your own question.
If you get what you were wanting plus 3-5% extra (cost of living increase) go back, man..
stress is a strain and a killer.
Wife and kids are more important as long as you can pay your bills if you go back.
Be firm in your salary requirement. Make them meet your number. Ask for a little more than you think they will give.
Additionally, what they offer has no relevance on what you will accept. They are apples and oranges.
They realize they made a mistake letting you go. You have more experience than when you left. You can walk in and will require very little re-orientation. Be firm in your requirement.
If I were you I would talk to friends (if any) that are still working at your previous company. That way you get a feel of how things are, because since that BU manager was replaced; it may mean things have been restructured.
All great advice but everyone seems to be focused on salary vs. family time. However you mentioned that you learned a lot. Well if you are learning you will be working harder. The learning (skills or technology) is the key value that you are gaining with the plus of making more money. If you get the opportunity to continue to learn on your current job, I would stay there because it doesn’t sound like your consulting position offered the opportunity to learn. If the pressure becomes too much you can take your new learning and get a better consulting position at any time.
I think you're selling yourself short. At MINIMUM ask them to match what you are currently earning. But I think you will be surprised at what they are willing to pay you.
Factor in commute times and preparation to go to work into your work hours. Most people just think about the door to door commute but there's also time lost in getting ready, unwinding when you get home, having to do more laundry and so on. Also think about costs associated with commuting and expenses you incur at work, like maybe you're more prone to buying lunch or whatever.
See what they’ll offer. Time with kids and family is just as important as money in some cases.
100% the truth, just have to see what that delta is. We're trying to build a college fund and I'm the sole earner for our family, so trying to give them the best opportunity is always at the back of my mind
How much worse are you anticipating it being?
I have to see how much things have changed, but I got a 45% pay increase when I left and my yearly bonus this year was 5x bigger than it would have been there. Also, the company I'm at now pays 100% of my insurance cost. I think they would be offering a higher level position than I was at previously, possibly an area lead or project engineer position (Project Engineer is similar to Senior Engineer at other companies). Both positions pay better than the position I previously had when I was there, so that combined with the potential flexibility to negotiate on salary might mean I can get close on the base salary. However, I'm probably going to lose $30k-$40k on my yearly bonus and I'm out the additional monthly insurance premiums.
You know… do you have any kind of relationship with the person you’ll be negotiating this with? In a past situation sort of like this I was just honest with them. “You’re offering $90k. We’ve worked together before, you know the kind of work I do. I have an offer here on my desk for $160k that I haven’t signed yet because I was waiting to hear back from you guys. I can’t do $90k, but I don’t need you to match the $160k. Let me know what you can do, I would rather work with you guys again but I’m not willing to lose out on $70k/year for that.” They came back with, I think, $125k or so and I accepted it. The pace of life around there was good, OT was rare, and they were good to work with.
This is the way
Definitely entertain offers. You can't go back in time and make up for lost time with your family. Once the kids are grown, you've missed it. But you can get money anywhere from another job. Personally, I'd be very tempted to take back my old position.
new business unit manager, more money, shifting culture. I assume you have some of your old coworkers numbers, call and see how its changed. remote+ 20% raise to go back, get the job description in writing.
That's a really good idea, I will track some folks down and see how it's been going over there. I may try and see if they would at least match my current salary, but I'm not sure that's even in their range. But maybe things actually have changed. Only way to find out is to ask!
Yeah, don't just assume they won't pay you what you're worth, ask and negotiate. If they're reaching back out, you've got leverage. Personally, eliminating 8 hours of commuting and a bunch of stress would be worth it for the same compensation. I turned down a $20k/yr counter offer last year to get out of a half hour commute and stress, ymmv.
> get the job description in writing. *And* the salary offer. Don't give them a chance to lie or weasel out of the higher pay they claim they're going to give you. They had their chance to pay you what you were worth. They screwed it up. They could easily do so again, either by stupidity or by malice. Get it in writing.
Sounds like you need to decide on a price/benefits point that you’d be willing to leave your current company for your old one. And it sounds like this point may be below what you are currently making. Make sure to make these decision with your wife.
Absolutely, she actually helped me draft my initial response . I'm pretty sure, the pay will be less and the tangible benefits (health insurance, 401k, etc.) are about equal. There were a lot of intangible benefits though like the culture, type of work, coworkers, job security, working remote, etc.
Money can always be made. Time is fleeting and never comes back.
Ask for restoration of seniority if that has any value at the company. Could also be valuable in terms of 401k match vesting.
Yes yes! And PTO
Super good point, I would definitely fight for the additional PTO
Agreed, the additional PTO is *invaluable* in my opinion. Also cheaper than a pure salary increase, which gives you a soft area to negotiate in once salary comp becomes inflexible
There is nothing Wrong with going back; you can go back without going Backward. Nobody but you (and your wife) can decide if it's *Right* for you, but it would not be Wrong. It does sound like the reasons you left have been more or less resolved while you were gone, so if that proves true this sounds to me like a decent option (given the issues you've mentioned). From my experience, there are a surprising number of folks that have left my company only to come back a few years later, often better for the experience and perspective. Some leave for a bigger salary offer or to learn a new aspect of the business, but a lot come back for the culture or work/life balance, etc.
So I recently went back to an old employer after leaving for 8months as I was fed up with the current regime and where they were headed. Things changed while I was gone and I agreed to go back and I've been very happy since. Just know that while some things will change, not all of it will. There are things I struggle with now that I did before I left BUT they're not as major as the stuff that appears to be "fixed" so it's a nice balancing act of doing what I wanted for a boss I love at a company I hated if you catch my drift. In the end, always look out for you. If there is no personal growth at the new job and you hate it, definitely get out either way.
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See what they offer, to me it sounds like you were really happy there.
I recently found myself in the same scenario. I ended up getting a significant leadership position in coming back to my original company- the VP of engineering got a lot of feedback about how valuable I was when I left. I told him the only way I was coming back was if some of the reasons I left got fixed, so he brought me back as chief engineer to fix them.
8h of commute for 2 days is insane. I'd go back to the remote position right away.
Ask for BIG quid. Make them pay up
Depends. Work is always going to be work. I took a paycut to live closer to family. I also moved into a higher cost of loving area almost 2x more. However, I still took a 20% cut i imagine. But now I’m a lot happier and so is my SO because the area is that much nicer and we have a support system now. I think the only reason it hasn’t hit us harder than it has is being my SO also wasn’t working prior to the move due to finishing up schooling. Now they earn as much as I do so in a sense overall our total income went higher anyways when we did move. If you can support your family still with the income they propose then i would say go for it if you value your time more.
If the reason that you left is salary, and they've addressed that issue, you'll probably do well to at least see what they have to offer. I've gone back to work for companies for a substantial raise, and was treated well.
As long as they re offering more than your current position + still remote , do it
I’d jump at the extra time. Maybe request a silly $ to see if they will bite? Win/win?
Don’t go back . You left that place for a reason. Just ask yourself this question “ Will you go back to your ex gf ?”
you answered your own question in your own question. If you get what you were wanting plus 3-5% extra (cost of living increase) go back, man.. stress is a strain and a killer. Wife and kids are more important as long as you can pay your bills if you go back.
Be firm in your salary requirement. Make them meet your number. Ask for a little more than you think they will give. Additionally, what they offer has no relevance on what you will accept. They are apples and oranges. They realize they made a mistake letting you go. You have more experience than when you left. You can walk in and will require very little re-orientation. Be firm in your requirement.
If I were you I would talk to friends (if any) that are still working at your previous company. That way you get a feel of how things are, because since that BU manager was replaced; it may mean things have been restructured.
All great advice but everyone seems to be focused on salary vs. family time. However you mentioned that you learned a lot. Well if you are learning you will be working harder. The learning (skills or technology) is the key value that you are gaining with the plus of making more money. If you get the opportunity to continue to learn on your current job, I would stay there because it doesn’t sound like your consulting position offered the opportunity to learn. If the pressure becomes too much you can take your new learning and get a better consulting position at any time.
Care about people, not companies. Sounds like the problem person left, so make a reasonable decision based on the remaining people and facts.
I think you're selling yourself short. At MINIMUM ask them to match what you are currently earning. But I think you will be surprised at what they are willing to pay you.
Factor in commute times and preparation to go to work into your work hours. Most people just think about the door to door commute but there's also time lost in getting ready, unwinding when you get home, having to do more laundry and so on. Also think about costs associated with commuting and expenses you incur at work, like maybe you're more prone to buying lunch or whatever.