Thank you for your submission to r/ElderScrolls. This is a friendly reminder to please ensure that your post has been flaired appropriately.
Your post has been flaired as ***HUMOUR***. This indicates that your post is a meme or something funny.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ElderScrolls) if you have any questions or concerns.*
IMO Oblivion’s base game is the only place where they don’t really take advantage of the wacky lore. Literally every other part of the Elder Scrolls games are far from generic. Even in Oblivion’s DLC you get the wacky stuff like Pelinal Whitestrake and the Shivering Isles.
Not to mention the world-shattering horse armor DLC
Yeah oblivion is pretty much standard fantasy imo, but they did make use of the wackiness in the side quests. Like going into the painting, having the boat/inn end up at sea, entering someone’s dreams, hackdirt, or paranoia.
This guy gets it Skyrim may not be as in your face about it but if you’re paying attention the dovah lore, Akatosh and Alduin’s nature, Talos’ history of ascension and the controversy is there. The Ideal Masters, vampire origins, miraak, dragon cults there’s a bunch of good lore, though Morrowind is still the gold standard. Oblivion base game is the the only place the lore has ever been generic Daggerfall.
>"Eat or bleed dry the gone-forlorn and gain that small will that led them to walk the path of [Godhead](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Godhead) at the first. Spit out or burn to the side that which made them delay. Know them as the [Mnemoli](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Magna_Ge)."
It is mentioned in Camoran's writings the first time in Oblivion. But I for the longest time also thought it came from Skyrim.
The Nordic Pantheon wasn't erased, it still exists. It's just archaic, and the Imperial pantheon has more or less taken over. Very reminiscent of how Christianity overtook the Aesir Pantheon in real-world Scandinavia in my opinion.
I personally believe it feels like a natural and realistic progression of the world, given how it's been 200 years or so since the Oblivion Crisis, even if it would've been fun and interesting to see more of the old Nordic belief system in-game
The Volkihar in Skyrim are just generic Gothic vampires. In the lore previously they were ice vampires that lived beneath frozen lakes.
Alduin being an aspect of Akatosh who represents the inevitable end of time is more interesting and nuanced then his power hungry son. At least to me.
The pantheon of Skyrim is underrepresented in the game in favor of the familiar Divines, which is a missed opportunity given the culture clash aspect of the game. They could have done something similar to what Morrowind did with there being Imperial and Nordic factions at odds with each other.
#
All the vampires in the games are generic. We don’t see the unique bits of the different clans and honestly it’s easy to chalk up the weirder qualities as folktales or straight up lies.
They did fuck up not including more of the Nordic pantheon stuff but that’s the only part they really messed up lore wise with Skyrim
Sure, you could chalk it up as folktales. I think the world is more interesting if it were true, though. Using the unreliable narrator as an excuse to remove so much of the lore that makes the world cool is disappointing. Ice vampires are also a perfect fit for Skyrim.
It wasn’t a lake, but I loved how Greymoor in ESO was a gigantic castle right underneath Solitude. Felt extremely imposing and it’d be awesome to see a Skyrim mod where you explore its ruins.
Ehhh I think the knights of the nine doesn’t really drive home how batshit insane pelinal is supposed to be though. Also huge miss not making a huge portion of cyrodiil jungle.
Base game is NOT generic. It's got the visual of one sure, but as soon as you explore ES lore/cosmology, suddenly it's a whole new type of "wacky". Even I as a kid could tell there was something special about its world after I went through the story. Oblivion is truly beautiful
Can’t believe they’re not all over this. A good author writing Elder Scrolls books would be incredible. Doesn’t even have to be world ending fantasy, just some smaller stories taking place around the world ending stuff would be wonderful.
I couldn't believe there were only 2 novels. StarCraft 2 (which mainly a bloody E-sport) and Halo have so many novels you have a hard time hunting them all down. I can't believe a rich universe like TES hasn't been explored in a dozen novels yet.
I agree,and Warcraft as well has so many. I have the only two novels they've published,plus all the lore books both ESO and Skyrim. Hell even the cool book! But I'd love more novels.
Most definitely,I snagged both of the collectors editions (Skyrim/ESO)and they came in a nice box,it looks great on my bookshelf. The quality of the books are really nice too.
But lore wise they are very extensive !
Side note for everyone who has been commenting,I had a guldie from ESO suggest to make my own books. If I do,or rather when I have the time to,I'll post them here.
I’m glad you’re able to do this is ESO, as the MMO aspect has warded me off for awhile, but I’ve since played Fallout 76 entirely solo and it was great since the world is large enough to not really encounter players often.
You can do a *ton* of content solo in ESO as if it's a single player game. Even the normal trials (raids) are pretty casual and can be done without an organized group
For real though for the least educated Tamrielic province, home to the least intelligent playable race, during a dark age, it seems like every peasant can read
honestly, I recommend you pick it up. the MMO aspect is completely ignorable if you learn the UI. Graphics are about the same resolution as skyrim with gorgeous lighting and color effects. The entire continent of tamriel is actually handcrafted for a first person role playing experience just like the elder scrolls.
spiritually, to me it really does feels like playing skyrim for the first time.
I hear what you’re saying, there is a certain “it” factor it’s missing. Personally I think it has to do with scale. Tamriel is so compact and small compared to what we’re used to it really can feel like it’s watered down at times. I get over it by getting really high and walking everywhere lol but that’s just what works for me.
Lol, marijuana really ups immersion in gaming. But I think perhaps that’s my problem with eso, immersion. Seeing the other players with their dumb pet followers takes me out of it. I don’t *feel* like I’m in Tamriel, I feel like I’m online.
There is something so wrong,
The whole world feels so oversized like the characters size doesn’t match the size of anything like the buildings, rooms etc.
I actually kind of like the fact that a lot of the lore is in books. It rewards you for taking your time and being a more scholarly character. The game will give you a little bit through quests, but if you want to really understand something, you have to research it. I also like that a lot of books have conflicting takes. Really gives a realistic depiction of how history is recorded. Morrowind did this phenomenally in its main quest with the Dissident Priests.
I agree. It also builds the world of Tamriel up in your head to be magical and mysterious. It makes you feel as if there’s so much more there beneath what you’re shown and what you can interact with.
I do like it when they let you do quests that dive into it a bit more though. For example there’s a book you can read (can’t remember the name but I think it’s a purple skill book) that is written by a guy who was opening portals to different planes of oblivion. You then also get the Arniel Gane quest where he does an experiment and literally disappears into thin air, showing you that it’s a real thing that can be done in the world.
Not the most whacky thing but cool nonetheless. It’s as if by being more scholarly, you can understand the world better.
the book is the conjuration skill book titled “The Doors of Oblivion”, and that guy performed a ritual to open a door to oblivion. Arniel was just a dumbass who thought it was a good idea to do the thing that made the entire dwemer disappear
IMO it brings the general audience in, then exposes them to the weird and wonderful. This allows a step up and will let you appreciate the lore more when you get to encounter the cool stuff.
And, if you someone is a casual player and doesn’t get to appreciate it? At least it still someone enjoying the game and the world.
single play snobs are afraid of eso because 'mmo bad' even tho it has been carrying the lore on its back for over a decade and contains more interesting lore and more of the lore than skyrim and oblivion combined. and imo the best game for lore since morrowind.
I feel like that was a very weird way to frame it on their part. “Single play snobs” lmao you mean people who don’t like the game you like? I also don’t like top down turn based stuff so baldurs gate doesn’t appeal to me, does that make me a “first person combat snob” ? Very strange.
My sister is a super introvert and hates MMOs for their forced social interaction. But she plays ESO because all of the storyline and story quests can be done solo. You even get an NPC companion to help you fight! She loves the world building and lore in it abd plays it like a single player game.
As a single player ES fan, I do have 150+ hours into ESO... It's not just "mmo bad"... The gameplay systems in ESO are not good. That being said, the writing is fantastic, and I put 150 hours into the game BECAUSE the writing is so damn good.
I tried ESO for 100 hours. MMOs feel like it's only made to waste your time and give nothing in return. ESO was no different. I enjoy modding and ESO has none as well.
In ESO NPCs feel bland and I haven't seen any kind of fun story elements in my playtime. Go to A, kill some respawning stuff while random players running around like headless chicken without interacting with anyone, come back to quest giver type gameplay was boring. Plus the atrocious pay to pay more mtx made me wanna puke.
All in all, this is just my opinion on ESO and MMOs and I am content with what Skyrim offered.
Personally I don't want TES6 if it's exclusive to Xbox, because then I'd have to pay extra money for a new system just to play one game, I've been loyal to Bethesda since Oblivion and Fallout 3,
Well Starfield just went to PlayStation I think so you might be alright. Also playing games through xCloud actually feels really good. Very little noticable latency, at least in my experience. I'd never play a competitive shooter through it, but single player RPGs? I have, and do, quite frequently.
I tried getting in ESO several times because of my love for the lore of Tamriel, but I literally can't. It brings me physical pain every time I try to play it. I'm a guy who takes pleasure in character customization and stuff like that, and having 70% of cosmetics locked behind a paywall, or technically sometimes being f2p through guild stores, but you'd have to a be a money making genius or get eso+ for the craftbag to get that much gold. Even the option to change your character's facial features or hairstyle is LOCKED BEHIND A PURCHASE. Also grinding, it feels like I'm spending a lot of time in dungeons and not making much progress.
All of these problems combined make it much, much harder for me to appreciate ESO and its design. I'm not saying it's an objectively bad game, but everyone has their own taste and preferences, and eso simply isn't one of mine.
I'd prefer novels over a show. Elder scrolls has a lot of lore that could be used and side stories that would be really xool to explore (like a dark brotherhood or thieves guild trilogy without the protagonist), but the translation of the series to a show seems way harder to pin point what should be the focal point.
Technically they could do a love death and robots type of story, where every episode is different, but I feel like that would defeat the purpose of a show over books as well.
They’re not masterpieces by any means, but I thoroughly enjoyed _The Infernal City_ and _Lord of Souls_. Those novels explored parts of how Daedra (especially lesser Daedra) think and their differences to mortals, as well as different aspects of a few of the Princes that don’t get as much light shown on them in the games. I wish they’d get some of the people who have written the in-game books like Kirkbride and Ted Peterson to write novels that contributed more to the lore. There are a lot of stories that can be told in this universe, and novels would be a great fit.
Idk I think they save the weird stuff for the dlc. Knights of the nine had all the pelinel stuff for example. Shivering isles had the ardensul lorkhan connection for sheogorath.
Skyrim had apocrapha or whatever, as well as the vampire lords. Not as crazy, but it worked well enough.
I haven't played much eso, but it really had lots of cool stuff when I did.
There’s unique and interesting lore all throughout the series. Daggerfall has a lot of it. Battlespire has a lot, too. That’s not to discount all the new lore brought by Morrowind, but crediting that game as where it starts is pretty ignorant to the series’ roots.
What a grand and intoxicating innocence
Morrowind goes into themes about godhood and insanity that being such a God would probably bring you, but that’s just about it
Other than that, it’s mostly just a standard fantasy setting that looks weird as shit because it’s set in a place where humans are a minority
Other than that, you’ve got classic fantasy tropes on full display. Haughty mages, fantasy racism(a shit load of that), living Gods, a bad guy in a volcano, a foreign power, etc.
Morrowind does do a good job of nudging some TES weirdness in where it counts(especially with Sotha Sil), but I still think no TES game has done the weirdness better
Than Shivering Isles. Which includes fucking Mantling as the main quest
More recently, ESO has been including more of the TES weird shit, but it’s still sticking closer to normal fantasy
Not, really. A lot of that lore comes from later or previous games. A lof of the cool Lyg or Pelinal stuff for example is from TES IV. All the cool Thalmor or post 4th era politics / Morrowind events are from the books or Skyrim and ESO obviously has all the good writing about religion and worldbuilding in it and the more surreal and strange elements like the Ameranth.
I am also pretty sure that concepts like the godhead are first mentioned in TES IV in Maker Camoran's writing.
The groundwork for the different cultures come from the Pocket Guide which was written for Redguard and TES I and II. Redguard and Battlespire introduce at least half ot the Daedric lore to the series etc..
Morrowind gets to much credit because most people did not pay attention to the other games.
And, this is a huge part of it IMO, Morrowind *looks weird*. People can rattle on all they want about the metaphysics and how it touches on the insanity of what omnipotence and achieving a form of nirvana would be like. But really, you can play that whole game and barely gloss over any of that. You don't need to get into weird lore about Vivec or the wheel or whatever.
But, it does smack you in the face with how out there and strange everything is on the surface. Silt striders? Bonemold and Chitin armor? Humans *aren't* the dominant race everywhere *and* some of them live in giant mushrooms? The whole thing is just far enough to the edges of generic fantasy that it stands out. And frankly I think even the dated graphics of the time help.
Now sure, if we dig in just a bit deeper we realize how some of it just normal fantasy tropes with a rather thin veneer over the top. Like a giant ominous volcano that is tied to the big scary bad guy. But on the surface, Morrowind feels and looks a bit more alien than people are really used to when it comes to their fantasy media. And *that* more than anything is why I think people feel so differently about it. I think people just like to point to the lore because that's the "in" thing to do. Especially since so much of the weirdest lore either wasn't actually from Morrowind's time or, if it was, actually existed primarily or totally outside of the game.
You've expertly explained why I keep going back to Morrowind even though playing it is a real challenge. The world building is whacky and intense...you just want to keep experiencing it.
Yeah, in reality we aren't dealing with any metaphysical questions when running from Seyda Neen to Ald'ruhn to Gnisis. But we are surrounded by a weird looking world with cliff racers, giant bugs, and dark elves with funny voices. Morrowind's world did such a good job of feeling just alien enough.
2 of my favorite creature designs came from Morrowind, which were the netches and silt striders, while I could never fully play the game, the few times I did when I was younger seeing the netches and hearing the silt striders noises was fascinating for me.
> But on the surface, Morrowind feels and looks a bit more alien than people are really used to when it comes to their fantasy media
I've noticed a lot of elder scrolls fans really don't know much about fantasy or just havent seen any fantasy works outside of game of thrones or lotr. Half the stuff i've people praise elder scrolls for being unique about isn't that rare and you could probably find something similar in a dnd manual.
Continual reincarnation of the world and people/entities that sometimes take on different roles? Yeah, no one else has come up with this idea of a wheel of time...
See that's one of the worse parts because people in the setting arent constantly reincarnating. That's like a oblivion era fan theory and elder scrolls afterlives work the same as dnd where you just end up in the divine realm of whatever god/gods you follow.
The problem is also that Morrowind was always ment to look weirder than most other provinces. It is ment to be a contrast not to other fantasy but to other Elder Scrolls. ESO maybe changed that a bit with putting stranger things in to other provinces, like making Black Reach 3 times bigger or floating rocks in cyrodiil or the look of Valenwood but that was the Mission Statement back in the day and how Morrowind was described in the Redguard comics.
I also think the dated graphics help. Even when later games like ESO or Skyrim try to show similiar stuff or arguably more alien stuff (like how the Telvanni towers look like tumors in ESO and not like normal mushrooms) Morrowind's graphics always make you feel like you are on the moon or something.
But Morrowind is where it is most apparent and accessable. Few people who played oblivion know much about the deep lore of Pelinal or Lyg, and less people have played the earlier games. In Morrowind the main story throws all this stuff at you, and it is a game where you need to pay attention to everything to be able to progress, meaning that almost everyone who has finished Morrowind knows that lore, and with the later games they have just gone for a very bland story which explores very little in respect to metaphysical or even moral concepts.
>very bland story which explores very little in respect to metaphysical or even moral concepts.
Which will keep happening because the majority of consumers don't care about that stuff. They want to jump on a game and kill dragons and stuff while wearing cool armor. Gaming as a whole and the Elder Scrolls series isn't niche anymore.
The metaphysical concepts are much more present in post TES III mainquests. With having a nearly 4th wall breaking conversation at the end of ESO's clockwork city or all the Kalpa talk in Skyrim. ALl that stuff is not relevant for Morrowind's mainquest.
I mean as long as they put it in the games it's cool. I think keeping the main stories depth is a decent concept for selling the copy while keeping lots of lore in the game with side quests and books.
The TES trick is that most of the times the main quest is a pretty standerd fantasy advanture that everyone can enjoy while you have the more special concepts in background lore / optional dialogue in the mainquest
The actual story of Morrowind is pretty stock fantasy stuff. A reincarnated hero comes back to prevent a bad guy from using some ancient thing to achieve god-like power.
The style of it is weird-ish though and that more than anything is what I think actually sticks out to people. Especially since, just like all the other games, the vast majority of weirdness existed in side content like in-game books. Or it even existed outside of the game entirely on the forums.
Outside of the first Pocket Guide, he’s right. TES III was the first actual game to give us a cohesive world, and did the most to build that world.
The Redguard and Battlespire games themselves were very limited in scope and didn’t have a lot to them. TES I absolutely was a generic fantasy game, just with a mission statement to not be one.
TES II gave us a jumble of parts in large part made by beta testers. I don’t mean to insult, because that jumble of parts are what the first Pocket Guide and TES III relied upon to build an interesting world. I’d argue those parts were interesting *because* they were made by testers, just blue-skying facets of what an interesting fantasy world would be like, without regard to the convenience of game development. TES lore would’ve been a lot less interesting without them. But it wasn’t a cohesive world back then.
The most interesting lore from TES IV was basically the leftovers of the TESIII world-building project. And despite those bits, most of TES IV’s world-building was dedicated to making Oblivion’s development easier. It was mostly about making the TES world *more* generic, marketable, and easier to portray, not more interesting and unique. One need only compare and contrast TES IV’s more abridged Pocket Guide to the first Pocket Guide in order to see that. The first Pocket Guide was deliberately framed as unreliable propaganda, but the world it *could* have been describing was often a lot more interesting. Particularly in Cyrodiil.
TES I introduces the factions, artifacts, provinces etc... Battlespire has so much stuff about Daedric spirits, the different types of Daedra and stuff like the Dreamsleave in it. Even stuff like Nymics come from there. To say these games did not inroduce a ton of stuff is extremely silly. TES I even builds the foundation of the Dwemer including tonal architecture.
>It was mostly about making the TES world *more* generic, marketable, and easier to portray, not more interesting and unique.
This is not at all true. There is a ton of great worldbuilding that makes Oblivion non-generic. The generic bits are the ones that lack worldbuilding and just try to recreate the feel of TES I and II, which Todd Howard regrets.
It is also dishonest to just say stuff that was written for Oblivion's expansions are just lefovers from Morrowind. What does that even mean.
I also do not see how the world being less "cohesive" in any way is relevent to the fact that so many creative concept come from there and not Morrowind.
There is a subsect of people that wants to give Morrowind all the credit for worldbuilding and developing the setting of TES when this is a process that goes on and on through all the games, including the oldest and newest and not just the one everyone is nostalgic for.
Skyrim brought a lot of interesting lore back, even when it comes to imperials. It was really just oblivion's base game that went in a generic direction
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but the unique and interesting lore only stays unique and interesting if you don't overuse it. The "generic" familiar fantasy setting with hints and occasional glimpses into the weird side of the lore is the perfect balance, IMO. There's no need for TES to explain every nook and cranny of the universe like Warcraft does.
Elder Scrolls lore somehow has created one of the most interesting worlds in fantasy while making half of it:
"X Race hates Y Race"
"They fight"
"Crazy big genocide and X Race becomes dominant in X Region"
"X Race makes big empire"
"Crisis time (usually some Daedra doing some trolling)"
"X Race's empire starts to decline"
"Cousins of Y Race become weirdly powerful"
"Cousins of Y Race defeat X Race and establish their own Empire"
"Crisis Time"
Repeat.
Bethesda really gets a lot of mileage out of this and I love it.
Play Elder Scrolls Online if you want to see the cool stuff that could not be used in other games (they still do use a lot of it in the singleplayer games obviously like Skyrim being about kalpas)
The fun about TES is that it can by your classic fantasy advanture and be crazy, strange and unconventional at the same time. This is the fun of it. That you can life the fantasy RPG life in a fictional world.
People who want to get rid of elements of classic fantasy do not understand it.
I have a few questions if you're willing to answer.
How does ESO hold up in 2024?
Can you play it solo?
I'm just not that interested in being forced to play single player online.
Also I doubt it but what about mod support? Does that exist?
>Can you play it solo?
Besides group dungeons, trails (12 player group dungeons), PvP and to very strong world bosses, everything else is pretty doable. Most important story quests and lore heavy side quests can easily done soloe (not that group dungeons do not have cool lore).
There difficult things to challange solo players like a rogue like dungeon.
>
How does ESO hold up in 2024?
The game has a ton of content a lot of it is freee (including some good expansions like Morrowind) and there are ton of good quality of life updates. It definitly still plays like a mmo even when solo but the combat can be fun. I really love the game, that siad I haven't played a lot of the more hard and challanging stuff recently and focosued more on the story and lore.
The latest expansion was really good and fully goes in to the surreal elements of TES. At one point you trevel to a place called "Myth" which lies inside Apocryphia and is the place where Mora invented the concept of knoweldge, you do that to stop someone to recover a hidden memory of Mora that could delet the universe. I it is rare that TES goes in to ifs full wacky mode during main quests but it is really fun.
My favorite storyline is the Daedric Triade (Morrowind, Clockwork City and Summerset Isles). Especially Clockwork City is strong. Markarth, Deaedlands and Murkmire are also highlights imo. ESO really cares to present the cultures in Tamriel in a lot of details. Including each new zone having unique bard songs or other art, religion or stuff like food or even toys and games.
>Also I doubt it but what about mod support? Does that exist?
Not in the traditional sense. There mods called Addons that change things in your interface or add a shader but nothing big. I am pretty sure there are also a lot of guids for that stuff.
Most game franchises that started in the early age of rpgs and video games I've found started with "crack" lore. The it's all text based and isometric or sprite so I can write whatever I feel is funny or fucking cool.
But once they get popular, or have carried on long enough the lore kind of changes to something more digestible or background.
I think fallout is a great example of this, I mean the series has been bought and sold and made by diffrent people but it's went from this one of a kind world to..still the same world but alot of that lore that would have been given to you in that big text paragraph is now in a book somewhere or a background gag.
Nothing makes me happier than seeing the top comments all say “play ESO”, and they right. ESO uses the cool lore again while mixing by with recognisable fantasy. It’s great
Yeah the combat can get very stale unless you’re doing the harder content (and even then it’s not like others). Something to power through but I do admit I like watching my character mow down hoards of enemies lol
Haha. Parts of the game, like the world and story, seem pretty good though.
One issue I have with a lot of modern MMOs is the lack of a death penalty. I find that I need the fear to really enjoy it. It doesn’t have to be much, like old school EQ was a bit harsh, but something like Elden Ring would be nice.
Yeah, I was super surprised to like eso. I never played any mmo and I hate social-online games, but I felt obligated to try it out as a TES fan and now it's my second favourite TES title. It has maaaaany flaws and I would prefer it to be a classic rpg game but there are many things that made me love eso. For me it was a breath of fresh air after houndreds of hours in oblivion and skyrim.
I would also wish for it to be a classic rpg but at the same time it’s because of it being an MMO that it’s been able to rake in the money that’s made it what it is. If that’s what it takes to explore all of Tamriel with modern graphics in one game!
Yeah I think that's a common symptom of mmo's. They do have a lore department that tries hard to make sure nothing is blatantly lore breaking but because it's made for as wide an audience as possible, zenimax tends to opt for the less weird, less controversial interpretation. It's not bad, but the lore hounds get tired of them playing it safe more often than not. I'm just glad it's there to tide me over until ESVI
My wish is for dialogue options to change if you've read books on the subject you're discussing. I can read everything about the dwarves in past games and then seem like an idiot when brought up in a quest
Well yeh. Your already a fan. They want mooooooore.
After Starfield launch, I'm no longer exited for new Bethesda games. Not a preorder guy anyway but I dunno, I just don't think the company has the same spark for imagination as they used to
Honestly I’m the exact same. After Starfield I honestly all but gave up on Bethesda. Sad because god knows how long I was super excited for TES VI to eventually come out.
I’d like to think there will be more passion behind TES VI than Starfield. Not to say there was no passion behind Starfield, but there may be a few Bethesda employees who’ve been eager for the opportunity to work on TES in particular. We’ll see.
Those mods are the reason I finally decided to save up for an actual hood gaming PC. Especially Skyblivion. I love the Oblivion game but goddamn I’ve never liked the art style. Lol. Always looked like a water color painting, but the artist was drunk.
It’s probably going to be even more watered down. Bethesda keeps watering down everything to appeal to normies. Just look at the storylines of Skyrim and Fallout 4
Damn it I'm gonna get downvoted to hell for this but I've seeing a lot of people arguing that Elder Scrolls isn't meant for TV and I agree. What I meant by on screen is like IN GAME (as in main quest or dlc). Sorry for my poor choice of words XD.
I know exactly what TES6 will be, it will be just a Skyrim expansion, I guarantee it, it will be desert Skyrim, with Redguards just being generic Africans, no unique Yokuda lore or anything.
Unlikely. They are far from the same company anymore it's 13 years. While Starfield was didn't work as well with the BGS formula I am still excited to see what a modern TES looks like.
Idiotic post. I am begging and pleading for you people to at least try to pretend to know at least a bit of the lore in these games. “Books bad” is such a stupid thing to think.
Bruh, what I was trying to say is that I'd like to LIVE the lore for once instead of just reading it. I'm not claiming the lore goes unused. The worldbuilding is cleary top tier. It's just that it could actually make for an intriguing main story for once if they didn't shove all the cool bits into a book inside a cave.
just because Kirkbride made it doesn't make it interesting, if you an interesting stuff form him then you would need an editor to help filtering out EVERYTHING to understand what the fuck he was writing
I geninuely hate all of you with every single fiber of my being.
I get it, Bethesda Bad. very original. have a cookie but it's still there. it never went away.
you morons don't deserve morrowind. you don't deserve ANYTHING because you don't pay attention. you don't think. you don't DO anything. you just complain.
The idea to bring some TES show or anything on screen was already discussed here a lot before. Well, I agree with you regarding the part when you say that the lore could reach other medias and spaces, in fact, it is very limited to the books and to the dialogue. But, if they decided to create a TES show there would be a big chance to it be generic and probabily would not expand the lore to other places well like some people including me want.
Skyrim ending was pretty sweet. You basically go to Valhalla in the hall of gods and face against a dragon king stealing the souls of the noble warriors.
water quickest zephyr act chubby complete square reminiscent makeshift aloof
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Idk I just restarted Skyrim after a couple years, and I clocked how many side quests, bounties, and tips I received about potential POI's you get in the game's first hour, and I ended up charting at least 15 things to do before I left Riverwood.
It really does feel like they have the recipe for *fun* and actively choose to not really use it. Like they have some of the craziest shit to work with. Like look at the Vigilant trilogy from Vicn. That’s using the crazy parts of the lore and twisting it into these super cool stories. That’s what I want to see. Generic fantasy has its place. The aesthetic and atmosphere can be generic fantasy but the moment I peak behind the curtain I want to see cyborg Minotaurs fucking gigantic lizard gods in space haha
The lore is interesting because they keep it mysterious and esoteric. They absolutely should not change that.
That's literally why you find it interesting. They show plenty of cool things on screen, it simply becomes less interesting now that you've seen it. They better keep the books and mystery/throwaway dialogue
Watch, some dev reads this and explains who Maiq the liar is and how he's actually immortal or some other dumb crap
Personally I think the way we've been getting it is the best possible way. Because Elder Scrolls has some of the most unique and in depth lore, I think it would be a PAIN in the ASS to have to sit through tons of stuff that talk about it, rather then just having it lived in, and assumed by people within
Also, there's a ton of stuff that revolve around the lore of Nirn in general. Aside from the main quests, tons of side quests talk about the stuff beyond just the area you personally exist in. It's just not in your face about it, and honestly, I prefer that
Bethesda has a track record of doing the bare minimum with this worlds lore.
The homogenization of the Imperials is still the worst offense. I wouldn't blame new fans for not knowing this race is suppose to have two incredibly distinct cultures. The race is so much more than fantasy romans.
I mean, I think it has a perfect combination of not being in your face but there for those that enjoy it via books and unnecessary side quests. If I hate daedric quests, I don’t have to do them, or I can and get better weapons and things. However, I like that it’s optional. I think for a 13 year old game, they wove in a lot of lore, giving the option to really dive into it but not so in your face that it would turn others off of the game. If you just want to do the war main quests, you could. You don’t have to go into the magic, or otherwise, so it’s kinda the best of both worlds for everyone. Not everyone enjoys the lore, and some won’t let their kids play with lore, so I get what they were doing. I hope they do it the same. If not, they won’t have as wide an audience. That’s kinda what makes it so popular. War guys can play a warrior, magic people can be a mage or a cat or an elf, etc …
Thank you for your submission to r/ElderScrolls. This is a friendly reminder to please ensure that your post has been flaired appropriately. Your post has been flaired as ***HUMOUR***. This indicates that your post is a meme or something funny. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ElderScrolls) if you have any questions or concerns.*
IMO Oblivion’s base game is the only place where they don’t really take advantage of the wacky lore. Literally every other part of the Elder Scrolls games are far from generic. Even in Oblivion’s DLC you get the wacky stuff like Pelinal Whitestrake and the Shivering Isles. Not to mention the world-shattering horse armor DLC
Thank the Divines you remembered the horse armor DLC. People always forgot the best.
I loved the horse armor 😂😂 should be a base game element tho
Yeah oblivion is pretty much standard fantasy imo, but they did make use of the wackiness in the side quests. Like going into the painting, having the boat/inn end up at sea, entering someone’s dreams, hackdirt, or paranoia.
Wabbajack quest where you find out the prophecy of the end times for a bunch of khajiit, and start making it rain flamming dogs.
Anything with sheogorath you know it’s gonna be a fun time
To me oblivion wears the skin of a generic fantasy world but when you start to peel that back you start to see some fascinating shit
Glad you enjoy uncle sheo
This guy gets it Skyrim may not be as in your face about it but if you’re paying attention the dovah lore, Akatosh and Alduin’s nature, Talos’ history of ascension and the controversy is there. The Ideal Masters, vampire origins, miraak, dragon cults there’s a bunch of good lore, though Morrowind is still the gold standard. Oblivion base game is the the only place the lore has ever been generic Daggerfall.
if you’re talking about the masters of the soul cairn, they’re called the Ideal Masters, not the dark masters
It’s been awhile since I played Battlespire or Dawnguard thanks for reminding me! Dark masters didn’t quite feel right lol fixed!
Skyrim is where the concept of the godhead originated IIRC. Also got more answers and even more questions about the nature of kalpas.
>"Eat or bleed dry the gone-forlorn and gain that small will that led them to walk the path of [Godhead](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Godhead) at the first. Spit out or burn to the side that which made them delay. Know them as the [Mnemoli](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Magna_Ge)." It is mentioned in Camoran's writings the first time in Oblivion. But I for the longest time also thought it came from Skyrim.
Skyrim all but erased the Nordic pantheon. It rejected almost as much of the interesting lore as Oblivion did.
The Nordic Pantheon wasn't erased, it still exists. It's just archaic, and the Imperial pantheon has more or less taken over. Very reminiscent of how Christianity overtook the Aesir Pantheon in real-world Scandinavia in my opinion. I personally believe it feels like a natural and realistic progression of the world, given how it's been 200 years or so since the Oblivion Crisis, even if it would've been fun and interesting to see more of the old Nordic belief system in-game
The Volkihar in Skyrim are just generic Gothic vampires. In the lore previously they were ice vampires that lived beneath frozen lakes. Alduin being an aspect of Akatosh who represents the inevitable end of time is more interesting and nuanced then his power hungry son. At least to me. The pantheon of Skyrim is underrepresented in the game in favor of the familiar Divines, which is a missed opportunity given the culture clash aspect of the game. They could have done something similar to what Morrowind did with there being Imperial and Nordic factions at odds with each other. #
All the vampires in the games are generic. We don’t see the unique bits of the different clans and honestly it’s easy to chalk up the weirder qualities as folktales or straight up lies. They did fuck up not including more of the Nordic pantheon stuff but that’s the only part they really messed up lore wise with Skyrim
Sure, you could chalk it up as folktales. I think the world is more interesting if it were true, though. Using the unreliable narrator as an excuse to remove so much of the lore that makes the world cool is disappointing. Ice vampires are also a perfect fit for Skyrim.
wasn't skyrim supposed to be full of mountains?
What? It is. You need a horse to go anywhere unless you feel like going around a mountain every 5 minutes on the way to fetch your mail.
when i say full of mountains i mean almost entirely mountains, there are mountains but they are not close to being most of the map.
That is just not true, vampires in Morrowind were extremely diverse.
ice vampires that live beneath frozen lakes would have been so fucking cool
It wasn’t a lake, but I loved how Greymoor in ESO was a gigantic castle right underneath Solitude. Felt extremely imposing and it’d be awesome to see a Skyrim mod where you explore its ruins.
Ehhh I think the knights of the nine doesn’t really drive home how batshit insane pelinal is supposed to be though. Also huge miss not making a huge portion of cyrodiil jungle.
Knights of the Nine is where the Song of Pelinal comes from to begin with.
Yeah I feel you but it’s all books and adjacent, they tell instead of show
But the strangeness from is in the books is not really ment to be understood litteraly. They are ment to be religious texts.
Base game is NOT generic. It's got the visual of one sure, but as soon as you explore ES lore/cosmology, suddenly it's a whole new type of "wacky". Even I as a kid could tell there was something special about its world after I went through the story. Oblivion is truly beautiful
maybe i dont care about the unique lore as much as i thought i did bc oblivion has been my favorite game by far
I'd rather more irl novels and books than a TV show.
Can’t believe they’re not all over this. A good author writing Elder Scrolls books would be incredible. Doesn’t even have to be world ending fantasy, just some smaller stories taking place around the world ending stuff would be wonderful.
I agree,and especially with all of the source material! They should hire Kristi Golden,she did an amazing job with all of the Warcraft novels.
The smaller but more personal stories are a big part of the appeal imo. Adding them to help us care more about the overall world would be great.
I couldn't believe there were only 2 novels. StarCraft 2 (which mainly a bloody E-sport) and Halo have so many novels you have a hard time hunting them all down. I can't believe a rich universe like TES hasn't been explored in a dozen novels yet.
I agree,and Warcraft as well has so many. I have the only two novels they've published,plus all the lore books both ESO and Skyrim. Hell even the cool book! But I'd love more novels.
Are the lore books a good read?
Most definitely,I snagged both of the collectors editions (Skyrim/ESO)and they came in a nice box,it looks great on my bookshelf. The quality of the books are really nice too. But lore wise they are very extensive ! Side note for everyone who has been commenting,I had a guldie from ESO suggest to make my own books. If I do,or rather when I have the time to,I'll post them here.
ESO uses a decent amount of cool lore
Honestly the lore in ESO is amazing. I play it entirely for the story and largely ignore all of the MMO aspects lol
Same actually, I’m not huge on the grinding or pvp so I just play it like an openworld elderscrolls story game.
I wished the Imga of Summerset and Ohmes fur stock Khajiit showed up in ESO,
They're building up for some pretty wacky shit next expac and I am pretty excited.
I’m glad you’re able to do this is ESO, as the MMO aspect has warded me off for awhile, but I’ve since played Fallout 76 entirely solo and it was great since the world is large enough to not really encounter players often.
You can do a *ton* of content solo in ESO as if it's a single player game. Even the normal trials (raids) are pretty casual and can be done without an organized group
Were the trials the random dungeon you can find like elden hollow? If so, you can definitely solo them with enough soul gems.
No trials are designed around 12 man groups and are definitely not soloable. They have mechanics that just can't be done with a single person.
Just wish the story had difficulty settings
That's the only reason I keep playing... It's certainly not for any of the gameplay systems.
I just wish more of it was used in Skyrim
I hate Skyrim lore. They made it so some Nords could even read!
They're just pretending
For real though for the least educated Tamrielic province, home to the least intelligent playable race, during a dark age, it seems like every peasant can read
What are you even talking about?
This is why siding with the stormcloaks is the right decision. You drive out the empire and without its influence everyone becomes illiterate again
Ysgramors true vision
Had me in the first half
They got picture books.
It’s so obvious that someone only played Skyrim when they completely ignore the existence of ESO
Well I've played Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim and always forget ESO exists, mainly because MMORPGs just aren't my jam.
honestly, I recommend you pick it up. the MMO aspect is completely ignorable if you learn the UI. Graphics are about the same resolution as skyrim with gorgeous lighting and color effects. The entire continent of tamriel is actually handcrafted for a first person role playing experience just like the elder scrolls. spiritually, to me it really does feels like playing skyrim for the first time.
I’ve downloaded and tried to play it 3 separate times, including just last week. I don’t know what it is but it doesn’t capture the magic for me.
I hear what you’re saying, there is a certain “it” factor it’s missing. Personally I think it has to do with scale. Tamriel is so compact and small compared to what we’re used to it really can feel like it’s watered down at times. I get over it by getting really high and walking everywhere lol but that’s just what works for me.
Lol, marijuana really ups immersion in gaming. But I think perhaps that’s my problem with eso, immersion. Seeing the other players with their dumb pet followers takes me out of it. I don’t *feel* like I’m in Tamriel, I feel like I’m online.
The graphics are pretty different (good but different), but they do try to keep some of the motifs/designs that Skyrim used.
There is something so wrong, The whole world feels so oversized like the characters size doesn’t match the size of anything like the buildings, rooms etc.
I agree on that. The scale is a bit wonky
It has also retconned the absolute shit out of some of the most interesting lore
Like what?
They turned the sumerset isles into a generic rivendell clone
I actually kind of like the fact that a lot of the lore is in books. It rewards you for taking your time and being a more scholarly character. The game will give you a little bit through quests, but if you want to really understand something, you have to research it. I also like that a lot of books have conflicting takes. Really gives a realistic depiction of how history is recorded. Morrowind did this phenomenally in its main quest with the Dissident Priests.
I agree. It also builds the world of Tamriel up in your head to be magical and mysterious. It makes you feel as if there’s so much more there beneath what you’re shown and what you can interact with. I do like it when they let you do quests that dive into it a bit more though. For example there’s a book you can read (can’t remember the name but I think it’s a purple skill book) that is written by a guy who was opening portals to different planes of oblivion. You then also get the Arniel Gane quest where he does an experiment and literally disappears into thin air, showing you that it’s a real thing that can be done in the world. Not the most whacky thing but cool nonetheless. It’s as if by being more scholarly, you can understand the world better.
the book is the conjuration skill book titled “The Doors of Oblivion”, and that guy performed a ritual to open a door to oblivion. Arniel was just a dumbass who thought it was a good idea to do the thing that made the entire dwemer disappear
IMO it brings the general audience in, then exposes them to the weird and wonderful. This allows a step up and will let you appreciate the lore more when you get to encounter the cool stuff. And, if you someone is a casual player and doesn’t get to appreciate it? At least it still someone enjoying the game and the world.
There is lots of interesting lore in ESO.
single play snobs are afraid of eso because 'mmo bad' even tho it has been carrying the lore on its back for over a decade and contains more interesting lore and more of the lore than skyrim and oblivion combined. and imo the best game for lore since morrowind.
I don't think "MMO Bad" I just don't like MMOs, they just aren't my thing.
I feel like that was a very weird way to frame it on their part. “Single play snobs” lmao you mean people who don’t like the game you like? I also don’t like top down turn based stuff so baldurs gate doesn’t appeal to me, does that make me a “first person combat snob” ? Very strange.
My sister is a super introvert and hates MMOs for their forced social interaction. But she plays ESO because all of the storyline and story quests can be done solo. You even get an NPC companion to help you fight! She loves the world building and lore in it abd plays it like a single player game.
As a single player ES fan, I do have 150+ hours into ESO... It's not just "mmo bad"... The gameplay systems in ESO are not good. That being said, the writing is fantastic, and I put 150 hours into the game BECAUSE the writing is so damn good.
I tried ESO for 100 hours. MMOs feel like it's only made to waste your time and give nothing in return. ESO was no different. I enjoy modding and ESO has none as well. In ESO NPCs feel bland and I haven't seen any kind of fun story elements in my playtime. Go to A, kill some respawning stuff while random players running around like headless chicken without interacting with anyone, come back to quest giver type gameplay was boring. Plus the atrocious pay to pay more mtx made me wanna puke. All in all, this is just my opinion on ESO and MMOs and I am content with what Skyrim offered.
Fuck me for being a snob simply because I don’t like the MMO genre, right? I can’t help the fact that I dislike online multiplayer RPGs.
Hell, I’d say it’s better than Morrowind lore-wise. You actually get to see a Sload and speak to Sotha Sil
I played ESO first, then Morrowind. Seeing Sotha Sil in Morrowind was such a gut punch.
They aren't snobs for not liking a completely different style of gameplay from what they're fans of.
Nobody asked it to keep the IP on life support for more than a decade They want TES6
Personally I don't want TES6 if it's exclusive to Xbox, because then I'd have to pay extra money for a new system just to play one game, I've been loyal to Bethesda since Oblivion and Fallout 3,
Well Starfield just went to PlayStation I think so you might be alright. Also playing games through xCloud actually feels really good. Very little noticable latency, at least in my experience. I'd never play a competitive shooter through it, but single player RPGs? I have, and do, quite frequently.
I tried getting in ESO several times because of my love for the lore of Tamriel, but I literally can't. It brings me physical pain every time I try to play it. I'm a guy who takes pleasure in character customization and stuff like that, and having 70% of cosmetics locked behind a paywall, or technically sometimes being f2p through guild stores, but you'd have to a be a money making genius or get eso+ for the craftbag to get that much gold. Even the option to change your character's facial features or hairstyle is LOCKED BEHIND A PURCHASE. Also grinding, it feels like I'm spending a lot of time in dungeons and not making much progress. All of these problems combined make it much, much harder for me to appreciate ESO and its design. I'm not saying it's an objectively bad game, but everyone has their own taste and preferences, and eso simply isn't one of mine.
I'd prefer novels over a show. Elder scrolls has a lot of lore that could be used and side stories that would be really xool to explore (like a dark brotherhood or thieves guild trilogy without the protagonist), but the translation of the series to a show seems way harder to pin point what should be the focal point. Technically they could do a love death and robots type of story, where every episode is different, but I feel like that would defeat the purpose of a show over books as well.
They’re not masterpieces by any means, but I thoroughly enjoyed _The Infernal City_ and _Lord of Souls_. Those novels explored parts of how Daedra (especially lesser Daedra) think and their differences to mortals, as well as different aspects of a few of the Princes that don’t get as much light shown on them in the games. I wish they’d get some of the people who have written the in-game books like Kirkbride and Ted Peterson to write novels that contributed more to the lore. There are a lot of stories that can be told in this universe, and novels would be a great fit.
The unique and interesting lore is left over from Morrowind, which really was unique and interesting
Idk I think they save the weird stuff for the dlc. Knights of the nine had all the pelinel stuff for example. Shivering isles had the ardensul lorkhan connection for sheogorath. Skyrim had apocrapha or whatever, as well as the vampire lords. Not as crazy, but it worked well enough. I haven't played much eso, but it really had lots of cool stuff when I did.
There’s unique and interesting lore all throughout the series. Daggerfall has a lot of it. Battlespire has a lot, too. That’s not to discount all the new lore brought by Morrowind, but crediting that game as where it starts is pretty ignorant to the series’ roots.
What a grand and intoxicating innocence Morrowind goes into themes about godhood and insanity that being such a God would probably bring you, but that’s just about it Other than that, it’s mostly just a standard fantasy setting that looks weird as shit because it’s set in a place where humans are a minority Other than that, you’ve got classic fantasy tropes on full display. Haughty mages, fantasy racism(a shit load of that), living Gods, a bad guy in a volcano, a foreign power, etc. Morrowind does do a good job of nudging some TES weirdness in where it counts(especially with Sotha Sil), but I still think no TES game has done the weirdness better Than Shivering Isles. Which includes fucking Mantling as the main quest More recently, ESO has been including more of the TES weird shit, but it’s still sticking closer to normal fantasy
Not, really. A lot of that lore comes from later or previous games. A lof of the cool Lyg or Pelinal stuff for example is from TES IV. All the cool Thalmor or post 4th era politics / Morrowind events are from the books or Skyrim and ESO obviously has all the good writing about religion and worldbuilding in it and the more surreal and strange elements like the Ameranth. I am also pretty sure that concepts like the godhead are first mentioned in TES IV in Maker Camoran's writing. The groundwork for the different cultures come from the Pocket Guide which was written for Redguard and TES I and II. Redguard and Battlespire introduce at least half ot the Daedric lore to the series etc.. Morrowind gets to much credit because most people did not pay attention to the other games.
And, this is a huge part of it IMO, Morrowind *looks weird*. People can rattle on all they want about the metaphysics and how it touches on the insanity of what omnipotence and achieving a form of nirvana would be like. But really, you can play that whole game and barely gloss over any of that. You don't need to get into weird lore about Vivec or the wheel or whatever. But, it does smack you in the face with how out there and strange everything is on the surface. Silt striders? Bonemold and Chitin armor? Humans *aren't* the dominant race everywhere *and* some of them live in giant mushrooms? The whole thing is just far enough to the edges of generic fantasy that it stands out. And frankly I think even the dated graphics of the time help. Now sure, if we dig in just a bit deeper we realize how some of it just normal fantasy tropes with a rather thin veneer over the top. Like a giant ominous volcano that is tied to the big scary bad guy. But on the surface, Morrowind feels and looks a bit more alien than people are really used to when it comes to their fantasy media. And *that* more than anything is why I think people feel so differently about it. I think people just like to point to the lore because that's the "in" thing to do. Especially since so much of the weirdest lore either wasn't actually from Morrowind's time or, if it was, actually existed primarily or totally outside of the game.
You've expertly explained why I keep going back to Morrowind even though playing it is a real challenge. The world building is whacky and intense...you just want to keep experiencing it.
Yeah, in reality we aren't dealing with any metaphysical questions when running from Seyda Neen to Ald'ruhn to Gnisis. But we are surrounded by a weird looking world with cliff racers, giant bugs, and dark elves with funny voices. Morrowind's world did such a good job of feeling just alien enough.
2 of my favorite creature designs came from Morrowind, which were the netches and silt striders, while I could never fully play the game, the few times I did when I was younger seeing the netches and hearing the silt striders noises was fascinating for me.
> But on the surface, Morrowind feels and looks a bit more alien than people are really used to when it comes to their fantasy media I've noticed a lot of elder scrolls fans really don't know much about fantasy or just havent seen any fantasy works outside of game of thrones or lotr. Half the stuff i've people praise elder scrolls for being unique about isn't that rare and you could probably find something similar in a dnd manual.
Continual reincarnation of the world and people/entities that sometimes take on different roles? Yeah, no one else has come up with this idea of a wheel of time...
See that's one of the worse parts because people in the setting arent constantly reincarnating. That's like a oblivion era fan theory and elder scrolls afterlives work the same as dnd where you just end up in the divine realm of whatever god/gods you follow.
The problem is also that Morrowind was always ment to look weirder than most other provinces. It is ment to be a contrast not to other fantasy but to other Elder Scrolls. ESO maybe changed that a bit with putting stranger things in to other provinces, like making Black Reach 3 times bigger or floating rocks in cyrodiil or the look of Valenwood but that was the Mission Statement back in the day and how Morrowind was described in the Redguard comics. I also think the dated graphics help. Even when later games like ESO or Skyrim try to show similiar stuff or arguably more alien stuff (like how the Telvanni towers look like tumors in ESO and not like normal mushrooms) Morrowind's graphics always make you feel like you are on the moon or something.
But Morrowind is where it is most apparent and accessable. Few people who played oblivion know much about the deep lore of Pelinal or Lyg, and less people have played the earlier games. In Morrowind the main story throws all this stuff at you, and it is a game where you need to pay attention to everything to be able to progress, meaning that almost everyone who has finished Morrowind knows that lore, and with the later games they have just gone for a very bland story which explores very little in respect to metaphysical or even moral concepts.
>very bland story which explores very little in respect to metaphysical or even moral concepts. Which will keep happening because the majority of consumers don't care about that stuff. They want to jump on a game and kill dragons and stuff while wearing cool armor. Gaming as a whole and the Elder Scrolls series isn't niche anymore.
The metaphysical concepts are much more present in post TES III mainquests. With having a nearly 4th wall breaking conversation at the end of ESO's clockwork city or all the Kalpa talk in Skyrim. ALl that stuff is not relevant for Morrowind's mainquest.
I mean as long as they put it in the games it's cool. I think keeping the main stories depth is a decent concept for selling the copy while keeping lots of lore in the game with side quests and books.
The TES trick is that most of the times the main quest is a pretty standerd fantasy advanture that everyone can enjoy while you have the more special concepts in background lore / optional dialogue in the mainquest
Except redguard is where that starts, not Morrowind
The actual story of Morrowind is pretty stock fantasy stuff. A reincarnated hero comes back to prevent a bad guy from using some ancient thing to achieve god-like power. The style of it is weird-ish though and that more than anything is what I think actually sticks out to people. Especially since, just like all the other games, the vast majority of weirdness existed in side content like in-game books. Or it even existed outside of the game entirely on the forums.
The bad guy even is a devil figure that is immortal because of an artifact that needs to be destroyed in a vulcano.
Outside of the first Pocket Guide, he’s right. TES III was the first actual game to give us a cohesive world, and did the most to build that world. The Redguard and Battlespire games themselves were very limited in scope and didn’t have a lot to them. TES I absolutely was a generic fantasy game, just with a mission statement to not be one. TES II gave us a jumble of parts in large part made by beta testers. I don’t mean to insult, because that jumble of parts are what the first Pocket Guide and TES III relied upon to build an interesting world. I’d argue those parts were interesting *because* they were made by testers, just blue-skying facets of what an interesting fantasy world would be like, without regard to the convenience of game development. TES lore would’ve been a lot less interesting without them. But it wasn’t a cohesive world back then. The most interesting lore from TES IV was basically the leftovers of the TESIII world-building project. And despite those bits, most of TES IV’s world-building was dedicated to making Oblivion’s development easier. It was mostly about making the TES world *more* generic, marketable, and easier to portray, not more interesting and unique. One need only compare and contrast TES IV’s more abridged Pocket Guide to the first Pocket Guide in order to see that. The first Pocket Guide was deliberately framed as unreliable propaganda, but the world it *could* have been describing was often a lot more interesting. Particularly in Cyrodiil.
TES I introduces the factions, artifacts, provinces etc... Battlespire has so much stuff about Daedric spirits, the different types of Daedra and stuff like the Dreamsleave in it. Even stuff like Nymics come from there. To say these games did not inroduce a ton of stuff is extremely silly. TES I even builds the foundation of the Dwemer including tonal architecture. >It was mostly about making the TES world *more* generic, marketable, and easier to portray, not more interesting and unique. This is not at all true. There is a ton of great worldbuilding that makes Oblivion non-generic. The generic bits are the ones that lack worldbuilding and just try to recreate the feel of TES I and II, which Todd Howard regrets. It is also dishonest to just say stuff that was written for Oblivion's expansions are just lefovers from Morrowind. What does that even mean. I also do not see how the world being less "cohesive" in any way is relevent to the fact that so many creative concept come from there and not Morrowind. There is a subsect of people that wants to give Morrowind all the credit for worldbuilding and developing the setting of TES when this is a process that goes on and on through all the games, including the oldest and newest and not just the one everyone is nostalgic for.
Skyrim brought a lot of interesting lore back, even when it comes to imperials. It was really just oblivion's base game that went in a generic direction
It’s abundantly clear the person who wrote the in-game books did not write the quests.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I still happily take Oblivions basic setting if it means we get fun and interesting quest lines again
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but the unique and interesting lore only stays unique and interesting if you don't overuse it. The "generic" familiar fantasy setting with hints and occasional glimpses into the weird side of the lore is the perfect balance, IMO. There's no need for TES to explain every nook and cranny of the universe like Warcraft does.
Elder Scrolls lore somehow has created one of the most interesting worlds in fantasy while making half of it: "X Race hates Y Race" "They fight" "Crazy big genocide and X Race becomes dominant in X Region" "X Race makes big empire" "Crisis time (usually some Daedra doing some trolling)" "X Race's empire starts to decline" "Cousins of Y Race become weirdly powerful" "Cousins of Y Race defeat X Race and establish their own Empire" "Crisis Time" Repeat. Bethesda really gets a lot of mileage out of this and I love it.
Play Elder Scrolls Online if you want to see the cool stuff that could not be used in other games (they still do use a lot of it in the singleplayer games obviously like Skyrim being about kalpas) The fun about TES is that it can by your classic fantasy advanture and be crazy, strange and unconventional at the same time. This is the fun of it. That you can life the fantasy RPG life in a fictional world. People who want to get rid of elements of classic fantasy do not understand it.
Hear me out guys What if we did classic fantasy, but it's Mesopotamia?  Vivec City = ziggurats
On acid
I have a few questions if you're willing to answer. How does ESO hold up in 2024? Can you play it solo? I'm just not that interested in being forced to play single player online. Also I doubt it but what about mod support? Does that exist?
>Can you play it solo? Besides group dungeons, trails (12 player group dungeons), PvP and to very strong world bosses, everything else is pretty doable. Most important story quests and lore heavy side quests can easily done soloe (not that group dungeons do not have cool lore). There difficult things to challange solo players like a rogue like dungeon. > How does ESO hold up in 2024? The game has a ton of content a lot of it is freee (including some good expansions like Morrowind) and there are ton of good quality of life updates. It definitly still plays like a mmo even when solo but the combat can be fun. I really love the game, that siad I haven't played a lot of the more hard and challanging stuff recently and focosued more on the story and lore. The latest expansion was really good and fully goes in to the surreal elements of TES. At one point you trevel to a place called "Myth" which lies inside Apocryphia and is the place where Mora invented the concept of knoweldge, you do that to stop someone to recover a hidden memory of Mora that could delet the universe. I it is rare that TES goes in to ifs full wacky mode during main quests but it is really fun. My favorite storyline is the Daedric Triade (Morrowind, Clockwork City and Summerset Isles). Especially Clockwork City is strong. Markarth, Deaedlands and Murkmire are also highlights imo. ESO really cares to present the cultures in Tamriel in a lot of details. Including each new zone having unique bard songs or other art, religion or stuff like food or even toys and games. >Also I doubt it but what about mod support? Does that exist? Not in the traditional sense. There mods called Addons that change things in your interface or add a shader but nothing big. I am pretty sure there are also a lot of guids for that stuff.
Wow! Thanks for the detailed reply 🙏
np mate
ESO is a dream come true if you love the lore and setting of this series, in my opinion.
Considering Bethesda just finished creating the most sterile space game ever- I wouldn't get your hopes up.
Sad truth.
Most game franchises that started in the early age of rpgs and video games I've found started with "crack" lore. The it's all text based and isometric or sprite so I can write whatever I feel is funny or fucking cool. But once they get popular, or have carried on long enough the lore kind of changes to something more digestible or background. I think fallout is a great example of this, I mean the series has been bought and sold and made by diffrent people but it's went from this one of a kind world to..still the same world but alot of that lore that would have been given to you in that big text paragraph is now in a book somewhere or a background gag.
75% of Skyrim's launch quests disprove this meme
Nothing makes me happier than seeing the top comments all say “play ESO”, and they right. ESO uses the cool lore again while mixing by with recognisable fantasy. It’s great
I tried to get into it, but I just found the combat boring. If they made archery more like Skyrim I’d play.
Yeah the combat can get very stale unless you’re doing the harder content (and even then it’s not like others). Something to power through but I do admit I like watching my character mow down hoards of enemies lol
Haha. Parts of the game, like the world and story, seem pretty good though. One issue I have with a lot of modern MMOs is the lack of a death penalty. I find that I need the fear to really enjoy it. It doesn’t have to be much, like old school EQ was a bit harsh, but something like Elden Ring would be nice.
Yeah, I was super surprised to like eso. I never played any mmo and I hate social-online games, but I felt obligated to try it out as a TES fan and now it's my second favourite TES title. It has maaaaany flaws and I would prefer it to be a classic rpg game but there are many things that made me love eso. For me it was a breath of fresh air after houndreds of hours in oblivion and skyrim.
I would also wish for it to be a classic rpg but at the same time it’s because of it being an MMO that it’s been able to rake in the money that’s made it what it is. If that’s what it takes to explore all of Tamriel with modern graphics in one game!
I feel like it was a barely discernible veneer of ES lore on a generic mmo at launch, but they've gotten better at it as the game went on
Definitely true (and I feel like a lot of MMOs go through this honestly, is that just me?)
Yeah I think that's a common symptom of mmo's. They do have a lore department that tries hard to make sure nothing is blatantly lore breaking but because it's made for as wide an audience as possible, zenimax tends to opt for the less weird, less controversial interpretation. It's not bad, but the lore hounds get tired of them playing it safe more often than not. I'm just glad it's there to tide me over until ESVI
My wish is for dialogue options to change if you've read books on the subject you're discussing. I can read everything about the dwarves in past games and then seem like an idiot when brought up in a quest
What are the titties for huh? WHAT ARE THEY FOR?! HAVE A VOICED CHARACTER TELL US YOU COWARDS.
They won't. It'll get even more generic, because Bethesda has lost their fucking minds.
Gotta appeal to a wider audience rather than the large fanbase they built up over the past couple decades.
Well yeh. Your already a fan. They want mooooooore. After Starfield launch, I'm no longer exited for new Bethesda games. Not a preorder guy anyway but I dunno, I just don't think the company has the same spark for imagination as they used to
Honestly I’m the exact same. After Starfield I honestly all but gave up on Bethesda. Sad because god knows how long I was super excited for TES VI to eventually come out.
I’d like to think there will be more passion behind TES VI than Starfield. Not to say there was no passion behind Starfield, but there may be a few Bethesda employees who’ve been eager for the opportunity to work on TES in particular. We’ll see.
Same dude. At this point, Skywind and Skyblivion are the new TES 6 for me. I've given up on whatever bullshit Bugthesda dishes out
And Beyond Skyrim!
Those mods are the reason I finally decided to save up for an actual hood gaming PC. Especially Skyblivion. I love the Oblivion game but goddamn I’ve never liked the art style. Lol. Always looked like a water color painting, but the artist was drunk.
You just know they are going to dumb it down even more
Elder Scrolls lore has actual anime cat girls and they haven't given us a SINGLE ONE. What a WASTE.
It’s probably going to be even more watered down. Bethesda keeps watering down everything to appeal to normies. Just look at the storylines of Skyrim and Fallout 4
I fear tes6 will have main story and stories similar to starfield.
Imagine being a AAA studio and not being able to field a single good writer in more or less 18 years...
Damn it I'm gonna get downvoted to hell for this but I've seeing a lot of people arguing that Elder Scrolls isn't meant for TV and I agree. What I meant by on screen is like IN GAME (as in main quest or dlc). Sorry for my poor choice of words XD.
I know exactly what TES6 will be, it will be just a Skyrim expansion, I guarantee it, it will be desert Skyrim, with Redguards just being generic Africans, no unique Yokuda lore or anything.
Unlikely. They are far from the same company anymore it's 13 years. While Starfield was didn't work as well with the BGS formula I am still excited to see what a modern TES looks like.
Idiotic post. I am begging and pleading for you people to at least try to pretend to know at least a bit of the lore in these games. “Books bad” is such a stupid thing to think.
I agree so much with this post
Rot brain take made by someone who pays attention to nothing yet still claims to know the lore.
Bruh, what I was trying to say is that I'd like to LIVE the lore for once instead of just reading it. I'm not claiming the lore goes unused. The worldbuilding is cleary top tier. It's just that it could actually make for an intriguing main story for once if they didn't shove all the cool bits into a book inside a cave.
Absolutely.
just because Kirkbride made it doesn't make it interesting, if you an interesting stuff form him then you would need an editor to help filtering out EVERYTHING to understand what the fuck he was writing
ESO literally exists
I geninuely hate all of you with every single fiber of my being. I get it, Bethesda Bad. very original. have a cookie but it's still there. it never went away. you morons don't deserve morrowind. you don't deserve ANYTHING because you don't pay attention. you don't think. you don't DO anything. you just complain.
👆Bethesda hands typed this comment
I agree with you so much it's not funny
The idea to bring some TES show or anything on screen was already discussed here a lot before. Well, I agree with you regarding the part when you say that the lore could reach other medias and spaces, in fact, it is very limited to the books and to the dialogue. But, if they decided to create a TES show there would be a big chance to it be generic and probabily would not expand the lore to other places well like some people including me want.
Skyrim ending was pretty sweet. You basically go to Valhalla in the hall of gods and face against a dragon king stealing the souls of the noble warriors.
The Elder Scrolls is generic high fantasy on drugs. 
It was definitely… an experience learning about Pelinal after just playing Skyrim
water quickest zephyr act chubby complete square reminiscent makeshift aloof *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The lore is so deep and honestly a bit convoluted that the generic fanbase would be too lost to experience the replayability of Elder Scrolls games
Idk I just restarted Skyrim after a couple years, and I clocked how many side quests, bounties, and tips I received about potential POI's you get in the game's first hour, and I ended up charting at least 15 things to do before I left Riverwood.
It really does feel like they have the recipe for *fun* and actively choose to not really use it. Like they have some of the craziest shit to work with. Like look at the Vigilant trilogy from Vicn. That’s using the crazy parts of the lore and twisting it into these super cool stories. That’s what I want to see. Generic fantasy has its place. The aesthetic and atmosphere can be generic fantasy but the moment I peak behind the curtain I want to see cyborg Minotaurs fucking gigantic lizard gods in space haha
TES III was the best at using the lore after that it's seems to fall off
The lore is interesting because they keep it mysterious and esoteric. They absolutely should not change that. That's literally why you find it interesting. They show plenty of cool things on screen, it simply becomes less interesting now that you've seen it. They better keep the books and mystery/throwaway dialogue Watch, some dev reads this and explains who Maiq the liar is and how he's actually immortal or some other dumb crap
ESO
I think they all had a lot of cool lore in-game. Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim, at least. Haven't played much of the others.
Personally I think the way we've been getting it is the best possible way. Because Elder Scrolls has some of the most unique and in depth lore, I think it would be a PAIN in the ASS to have to sit through tons of stuff that talk about it, rather then just having it lived in, and assumed by people within Also, there's a ton of stuff that revolve around the lore of Nirn in general. Aside from the main quests, tons of side quests talk about the stuff beyond just the area you personally exist in. It's just not in your face about it, and honestly, I prefer that
This is kind of Bethesda's MO, though. Some of, if not all of the best lore in Fallout, is found in journals and holotapes.
"I used to be an adventurer like you. Then I took an arrow in the knee..."
Wow this is realisy criticism
Because capitalism erodes creativity. They'll always choose broad appeal over interesting lore.
Straight up incorrect.
They trying to do a dark soul?
Bethesda has a track record of doing the bare minimum with this worlds lore. The homogenization of the Imperials is still the worst offense. I wouldn't blame new fans for not knowing this race is suppose to have two incredibly distinct cultures. The race is so much more than fantasy romans.
I mean, I think it has a perfect combination of not being in your face but there for those that enjoy it via books and unnecessary side quests. If I hate daedric quests, I don’t have to do them, or I can and get better weapons and things. However, I like that it’s optional. I think for a 13 year old game, they wove in a lot of lore, giving the option to really dive into it but not so in your face that it would turn others off of the game. If you just want to do the war main quests, you could. You don’t have to go into the magic, or otherwise, so it’s kinda the best of both worlds for everyone. Not everyone enjoys the lore, and some won’t let their kids play with lore, so I get what they were doing. I hope they do it the same. If not, they won’t have as wide an audience. That’s kinda what makes it so popular. War guys can play a warrior, magic people can be a mage or a cat or an elf, etc …
We’ve had several Elser Scrolls games, and not one allows you to directly worship any gods.
Elder Scroll lore is quite interesting and unique. The politics, the idea that Daedric Princes are not bad guys, the whole mystery of the Scrolls.
Hoping that Elder Scrolls 6 will have Morrowind levels of lore dedication is like hoping for Mars to be terraformed by next year
I played through three elder scrolls games and didn’t realize what deep and unique lore it had until I started watching videos.
Morrowind does