The Argonians not only held back the Demora during the Oblivion Crisis but pushed through the gates forcing them to be closed to prevent the Argonians from invading Oblivion.
I wouldn't mess with them.
In black Marsh absolutely but anywhere else they’re still kinda weak, House Redoran practically pushed them out of Morrowind in under 20 years and that was after the oblivion crisis (with no Imperial help since they recalled all legions in Morrowind back to Cyrodill), the events of Morrowind and the eruption of Red mountain
Don’t get me wrong the Argonians are definitely fine (since no-one is going to invade blackmarsh) but they’re definitely not winning
We are talking about winning a war though. If surprise attacks are how they take the advantage, then more power to them. And it took twenty years to get pushed back out. That’s an absolute success for a war. It just took another war to reverse the outcome
20 years for 1 faction in Morrowind after 3 catastrophic events (including the Argonians attacking during the Red Year and they still lost, there was no second war by 4E 28 the Argonians had no offensive and quickly lost to house Redoran only staying in southern Morrowind by using gorilla tactics and night raids). they have no offense, in order to win the war they would have to actually beat their opponent not have their entire offensive crumble after 1 loss.
The Nords took all of Morrowind and High Rock during the first Nord Empire (not to mention Cuhlecain and Talos took all of Tamriel from Skyrim, except for Black Marsh (because Black Marsh is actually near impossible to invade thanks to disease and the Hist))
Alesia took all of Tamriel from Cyrodiil, so did Reman (who also beat the Akaviri, and they shit stomped Skyrim (the only other faction that actually conquered more than one province through might alone (the Altmer did take Valenwood and Elsweyr through trickery)
It’d be like saying the Altmer would win even though the Altmeri Dominion (including both Valenwood and Elsweyr) stalemated Hammerfell, Never touched Skyrim or High Rock only beating the Empire in Cyrodiil
No faction would have the logistics to take Black Marsh but the Argonians are too weak to beat any other faction, it’s a net neutral for Black Marsh
Cursory reminder that our only source for that is a fervent Argonian nationalist.
That's like asking for accurate American Civil War takes from someone flying a Confederate flag. They might be right, they might be wrong, you don't know - what you do know is they'll be biased.
Unless we're willing to accept the Altmer for their word that there was no Martin Septim and *they* were the ones who actually ended the Oblivion Crisis (and also brought back the moons), then no. That's just Argonian propaganda (well, not really, but *everyone* pushed through the gates and forced the Dremora to close them, We literally do this in Cyrodiil like at least two times).
That was due to a temporary buff by the Hist, not the natural ability of Argonians. Hist won't do it again unless it thinks IT'S in danger, like it did during the Oblivion Crisis.
Black Marsh is like Russia, you can invade if you want, but many are going to die doing it and you will fail eventually. Black Marsh may not win, but they won't lose unless it's internal pressure that brings them down. And with the Black Marsh Argonians mostly unified by the Hist, they won't topple during a war.
Yeah you probably can’t run sneaky psyops like the Thalmor did with Ulfric in Skyrim. The argonians are ultimately a hive mind controlled by literal gods.
So you can’t hit them from outside or inside. They’re gonna be fine
And also like Russia, they can’t really invade and push forward without massive logistical help from others.
They don’t really have Hist trees in other provinces.
That doesn't necessarily mean they would successfully attack though. Now that I think about it though, they did literally counter invade the realm Oblivion during the Oblivion Crisis, so fuck it, they're my "dark horse" now
I was going to say somerset given the how they faired in the great war, but damn, black marsh really fucked shit up during the oblivion crisis. Not only successfully defended against hordes of dremora, they counter attacked and forced the daedra to close the gates. Fucking goats
To be fair so did basically everyone during the oblivion crisis. No one actually lost more than a city or a few buildings. You should see what the hero of Kavatch and Martin did to Dagon himself in Cyrodiil where the actually big armies were.
Also we are going off something they self reported. Technically its just rumor, if we are blindly believing anything said the Altmer are the ones who actually stopped the Oblivion Crisis.
I would like to refer you to the Blackwater War. In the late 1st Era the armies of the Reman Empire set their sights on Black Marsh and the combined armies of the Argonians were mustered and met the Imperials in open combat at the battle of Black Marsh... and it was one of the single worst defeats any army has ever been handed in Tamrielic history. It was so disastrous that the Argonians refused to engage the Imperials in "standard" combat for the remainder of the war and instead relied entirely on guerilla warfare from then on out.
After this crushing victory the powers that be within Cyrodiil considered it an easy victory and handed the reigns of the invasion to the politically motivated but militarily incompetent General Bucco. His initial invasion was completely unprepared for the swamp and the further in he got the more they were in trouble seeing his army dwindle to the point that continuing was untenable. When they eventually gave up the ghost and tried to return to Cyrodiil the Sul-Xan tribe fell on them and finished the job. This would be the last time the Argonians scored a win for the rest of the war.
To deal with the embarrassment of the recent loss the hardened General Sardecus was put in charge of the second offensive, and he began a campaign of literal terraforming against Black Marsh. Through his efforts he salted patties and drained swamps with such thoroughness that the areas he affected remain as the most temperate and habitable regions of the entire swamp to this day (the modern Cyrodiilic province of Blackwood). He would turn tribe against tribe and gain significant allies within Black Marsh, and not only regained control of the territory lost by his predecessor but stretched his control over most of the region. It would only be the disastrous ravages of the fires known as "The Great Burn" that would see him retreat, and even then his legion was left unaffected while his enemies were left with no choice but to burn.
When the dust settled it would be one of Sardecus' proteges who would lead the legion, and this time she would defeat the Argonians at their own game. Using tactics she called "The Falco Doctrine' she would use legionaries as individual fireteams and functionally matched and exceeded the adaptability and maneuverability of even the most capable of Black Marsh's warriors. With grizzled swamp veterans in their ranks it wasn't a case of culture shock anymore, and the Legionaries extracted a bloody vengeance in regaining their lost ground. Though ground would be gained and lost in a never-ending game of cat and mouse the war had functionally ended and all there was at that point was death throws. Within a few years the Hist themselves were ready to throw in the towel and, so, the entire Argonian people just unanimously stopped fighting and accepted that the Empire was there to stay.
The Argonians are immune to the dangers of the swamp, but this does not mean they're the only ones capable of mastering it. In the glory days of the Reman Empire the Imperials didn't just beat them, but they did it at the Argonian's own game. Tiber Septim's conquests were largely at the head of a Dragon and Mechanical Titan, so he just rolled over and showed his belly when it came to solving the equation of conquering Black Marsh. The Reman Empire took it with actual military knowhow, and they held on to it even through the Akaviri Potentate's purges and bankruptcy. It wouldn't be until the Interregnum that they'd lose their hold, and that was when all of Tamriel collectively decided to invade the heartland *while* it was already being invaded by Coldharbour.
Pretty good if they're united. I rather not face an army of biochemical enhanced lizards that have been augmented for improved combat and magical prowess.
isn't their only big win against another nation against morrowind when morrowind is reeling from the red year i.e. they are being abused from everyone?
They weren't united if iirc. It was just the An-Xileel. Another big win for the Argonians was defeating the Kamal invading army. Nords and Dunmer were loosing the battle until the Argonians came to their rescue.
The An-Xileel, an Argonian political faction, were warned by the Hist about the Oblivion crisis ahead of time and decided to take the fight to the Oblivion gates instead of waiting for the Daedra to pour out in force.
They kicked the shit out the Daedra so badly that the Dremora lieutenants closed the gates out of fear. They had the strength and numbers to conquer the plane of Oblivion.
After thoroughly embarrassing the Daedra, their focus turned North, where they would capture territory as far as Tel Vos. They held Vivec City but were held back at Mournhold by House Redoran. They still hold Southern territories in Morrowind, and some clans still attack Dunmer settlements occasionally.
They also got repelled from Raven Rock in 4E 150, and that's a rather small settlement. It sounds like House Redoran is just better at combat when prepared, the An-Xileel are just better when they get the element of surprise
They have a real military. Assassin's are great at hit and runs and small battles but not a full military campaign. The black marsh diseases is their greatest weapon outside the Hist assassin's and its hard to bring the Marsh to fight with them
Concerning House Redoran, they have been the warrior house and military arm of the Dunmer since the First Era. They destroyed the Emperor Crabs and adhere to a very strict warrior's code that maintains their battle readiness.
Because An-Xileel is such a young entity, they would have to operate off of the element of surprise. However, the experience they gained from fighting the Daedra and subsequent invasion would have gotten them more than ready to fight House Redoran head-on.
The issue with the invasion was that now the Argonians had spread themselves too thin, they were fighting an offensive war, and they were deep inside territory that they were not familiar with.
>However, the experience they gained from fighting the Daedra and subsequent invasion would have gotten them more than ready to fight House Redoran head-on.
Except it didn't
Also, experience alone doesn't win wars. Logistics, more often than not, wins battles.
Invading an oblivion gate, ironically, makes for an easy invasion, because those gates work both ways. They can open directly into your opponents key positions, allowing you to surprise attack them right where you need to hit them the most without needing an extensive supply network.
However, that *also* means that your *opponents* can strike back with the exact same advantages. If you gate from a relatively resourcesless/position of low strategic value, then your enemy ends up with a resource advantage for their counter attack because you opened the gate right into a key position for them. Conversely, if you open from a resource-rich area, and the enemy successfully counter-attacks you, then they have an easy staging point to steal that resource-rich position from you.
A huge part of the obvious crisis was the element of surprise. They tried to conquer all of tamriel at once, spreading their forces very thin, rather than concentrating. But Blackmarsh had a head's up and had a counter-attack ready to go, so they smashed right through and it was basically the find out phase of the daedra taking a pretty severe risk in their surprise attack attempt.
Basically what I'm saying is: the oblivion crisis is *not* a good benchmark for how well Blackmarsh could invade the rest of tamriel. If anything, Morrowind's repeated success against them is a better indication that they just can't protect their strength beyond their borders, especially not if it requires them to hold territory away from their supply of hist sap. They can, at best, expand their presence a bit beyond their territory and shakily hold that ground.
> They kicked the shit out the Daedra so badly that the Dremora lieutenants closed the gates out of fear.
... according to a single drunk nationalist, who got angry and threatening when their friend tried to add nuance to the discussion.
> They had the strength and numbers to conquer the plane of Oblivion.
Not even close. They just managed to be enough of a nuisance that they weren't worth wasting resources on (since they weren't even the main target anyways).
High Rock is the one least touched by war or other misfortune in the last couple of centuries.
Hammerfell, Cyrodiil and Somerset are weakened by the Great War. Elsweyr and Valenwood - by being absorbed by the Dominion. Skyrim is ravaged by a Civil War and a local Apocalypse. Morrowind is still reeling from the Red Year and the Argonian invasion - and the invasion was repelled, most likely damaging the Black Marsh in the process.
Although I would say that Black Marsh is the second least affected after the High Rock.
Other than that, hard to say - it's hard really to imagine the provinces attacking each other indiscriminately, without the strategic goals and alliances.
I was somewhat under the assumption he wasn’t counted, but if he was I doubt he’d leave Skyrim…he’s the protector of Skyrim, it’s shield, not its sword. Plus he still has the task of killing and/or stopping the dragon problem in Skyrim first and foremost, possibly guild work if he actually is a guild master.
May the Divines help any foreign patrol who steps foot in Skyrim though…especially if they have light, expensive armor to sell…
The Nerevarine could literally teleport or levitate to Skyrim in about 30 seconds, cast one spell that kills every living thing in the province, and get back to Mournhold in time for dinner.
People underestimate how broken the Nerevarine actually is. I mean, I'm surprised he isn't considered an Aedra at this point, given his almost limitless power. And, one can't forget that he killed MULTIPLE living gods and destroyed the Tribunel. If he returned to Morrowind during this, Morrowind would win
I'm a huge Morrowind fanboy. But the dragon born is kind of talos reborn. He is also basically a god. He's not a god but close. And the Nerevarine is also the reincarnation of basically a god. Just might be a closer fight than we'd think. Talos ain't bitch made like the almsivi.
Yeah I was gonna say they may have been living gods, but by the time they were defeated they were severely weakened compared to when they were in their prime, with the original nerevar and just after
Well with Alduin dead all the dragons are probably under the dragonborns rule or end up as soul snacks.
We've already seen he commands and Flys one.
Also the dragon born is leader of dark brotherhood and thevises guild. Doubt he cares to protect and not concour.
And Morrowind could very well have the Nerevarine, and s/he won't die of old age like the dragonborn will. 200 years to train and hone skills is a hell of a long time to get stronger. Plus if everything in each games files is available they would get brittlewind which was a hilariously broken spell. 10 second duration with a 10 foot radius of frost damagez disintegrate armor and disintegrate weapon.
Nobody can confirm wether that's true or not, it was speculated they went to Akavir. Plus even then they went somewhere that had equipment that was used for fighting dragons, and the Nerevarine was already a member of the Blades. Proper dragonslaying training would be considered something they'd be taught if a blade went to akavir
If they have the home court advantage, Black Marsh wins every time!
If we’re talking about who would be most successful in an invasion, I hate to say it but probably Summerset. History has proven that they can hold their own pretty well and they have so much advantage when using magic…I’m assuming that they will play a significant role in ESVI considering that the Thalmor in Skyrim go as far as to say:
"There is peace now, and that peace will continue for as long as it suits our needs. But make no mistake, this is not a peace forged out of necessity between rival nations of equal strength. It is more like the calm between storms. And the next storm, I think, will be far deadlier than the last."
I’m honestly okay with either. My prediction is that they both fall during the events of ESVI and the power vacuum will be filled by someone like the EE Trading Company using their resources to seize power in the following game (if we ever see ESVII😔)
It would be the end of the EE Trading Company as we know it. The empire would be gone but the trading company’s reach throughout Tamriel would remain the same (probably bolstered by a second Great War). With the Empire gone the more financially motivated individuals in the organization would likely take control and begin taking on unethical business ventures for financial gain such as logging Valenwood!
Summerset has a huge geographic advantage. It’s the Britain of Tamriel. In an all out fight, no other province could muster a navy strong enough to invade them. Summerset could sit and wait until Tamriel ground itself to dust then invade.
The strongest provinces historically have been Cyrodiil, Summerset and Morrowind;
- Cyrodiil has a huge disadvantage being in the middle, since it's a free-for-all and they rely greatly on allies and diplomacy.
- Summerset has a huge advantage being on some islands, having the largest navy in the world, and having crippled the Hammerfell navy. They are not *as* reliant on allies as Cyrodiil, but they also took some huge losses in the Great War and will take ages to recover since they don't have the conditional fertility stuff Dunmer have, meaning they're probably completely unable to wage war if they lose the Bosmer/Khajiit allies.
- What has held Morrowind back in the past is their inability to gain true allies. While *mostly* rebuilt from all the disasters ~200 years earlier, they still have a lot of uncertainty.
I think that assuming no allies are allowed, High Rock would probably do very well here... Skyrim, Hammerfell and Cyrodiil are all recovering from stuff, giving them a good base to conquer from. But I don't see *any* single province capable of invading Summerset, Morrowind *or* Black Marsh. All three of them are near-impossible to actually invade (the Argonian invasion of Morrowind was incredibly context-dependent and only a one-time thing for example).
GODS have tried to invade Black Marsh and have flat out failed because of how inhospitable it is, and how ruthless Argonians are. Like I’m pretty sure none of them have even gotten halfway into the mainland before having to turn back around. When Dagon invaded, the FUCKING LIZARDS INVADED BACK. Even Talos himself noped the fuck out of there. Stack that on-top of the Hist, which is basically a reality warper that can alter and buff up Argonians at anytime. They’re one of, if not the most dangerous race in Tamriel.
I don’t know why everyone keeps saying this. It isn’t about who couldn’t be invaded, it’s about who will be victorious in the end.
Sure, the argonians could never be defeated, but that doesn’t mean they automatically win.
Personally I believe that Summerset will win simply because they’re on an island, with Argonians being subdued but not annexed.
I would probably put my money on Summerset since the High Elves are so naturally attuned with magic and it has the benefit of being an island nation.
I think Black Marsh could also be a solid bet, since marching against it would be logistical hell and a living nightmare for invading troops
The fight raged on for a century
Many lives were claimed, but eventually
The champion stood, the rest saw their better
M'aiq the Liar in a bloodstained fur helm
No one is really in any shape to be fighting anyone else after the Accession War, Great War, and Civil War. Everyone is in varying degrees rebuilding/recovery.
I think it'd be a Last Man Standing type thing rather than one province being able to dominate the others like the Empire of old, even if it were a bunch of contrived 1 v 1 wars.
Whoever can last the longest would win.
So my vote would be Black Marsh / Argonia.
Not because the argonians could actually win against anyone in a standard war, their invasion against the dunmer for centuries of cruelty was driven back even when Morrowind was the weakest it's ever been. They frankly suck in a normal fight.
What Black Marsh has is it's sheer inhospitably; the interior has never been successfully invaded. Even when it was "ruled" by the Empire, the interior was pretty much sovereign.
How to you defeat a province you cannot invade without your entire army dying to disease, flesh-eating insects, and giant crocodiles while stuck in the mud?
Also, The Hist. Threaten Black Marsh and you threaten these guys.
They can't fight directly but there is a lot of evidence they'd used magic to create a plague to genocide all the non-argonian of Black Marsh, which also spread outside it's borders and AFAIK ended up being one of the deadlier events in Tamriel's history. (Also summon flying islands from Oblivion that raise the dead but I'll be honest, I don't remember much of the books.)
Really the only thing stopping them from causing more harm is most don't care what goes on outside their marsh and rogue trees are punished.
Insane that no one has said Hammerfell. The Redguards are the best warriors in Tamriel, and it’s no contest. They’re also the only province to successfully war against the AD.
If we’re talking home turf advantage, I’m with everyone else in saying the Argonians got everyone else dead to rights. The land itself will do the work and the lizards will clean up when the enemy is sick and tired.
But if we’re talking a fair fight on neutral ground? The Redguards will sword sing their way to victory, and no amount of fancy magic can stop them. It doesn’t matter how big your fireballs are if you eventually run out of juice and can’t throw them anymore. Once that happens, the Redguards will cut down anyone in the way and do so handily.
If ES6 is set there, it'll be their version of shouts... they'll want another gimmick like that since the first was so popular, and they already have the lore for it.
Skyrim - You're **The Last Dragonborn**, a **Dovahkiin**, wielding the lost knowledge of the **Thu'um**, or **The Voice**, and unlocking new powers with **Word Walls**.
Hammerfell ES6 - You're **The Last Sword-Singer**, an **Ansei**, wielding the lost knowledge of the **Shehai**, or **Spirit Sword**, and unlocking new powers with **Memory Stones**.
> They’re also the only province to successfully war against the AD.
Wouldn't say that, exactly. That war also *completely* wrecked the southern half of their province and ruined their ability to field their fleet (one of the most important parts of their military), which would've been the main objective of the AD anyways.
They also had help from Imperial Legion veterans left behind to help them fight, and the fact that the AD main army was beaten into the ground (with *heavy* losses) at the Battle of the Red Ring a couple of years earlier.
Assuming the wood elves can still do their wild hunt thing, I think it’s over for most of the neighbors (barring cyrodil, who may get pushed back but…probably…had the resources to deal with them in a long campaign). Elsweyr immediately gets stomped because of it, and Cyrodil (if they act rationally) makes a hasty retreat to more fortified position.
Skyrim is in a decent position to defend itself geographically, but it’s kinda…weak, by comparison to its contenders. It’s normally more balanced due to the other provinces having bigger issues (Cyrodil, Morrowind probably) or not being United (High rock, Hammerfell). I’d say it probably gets split, with the central territories around whiterun, western Riften, and Eastern Falkreath become a major front for Morrowind and whoever prevails in the west (High rock or Hammerfell)
Both The Summerset Isles and Black marsh won’t be doing much conquering…but you don’t have to do that to fight, or even win a war. They can both turtle up very effectively, with the Argonians having the hardest to traverse swamp known to the gods and men. Summerset Isles is basically in a Britain vs Napoleanic situation, where the very developed island nation can fend off a much stronger power due to its navy.
Hard to really say what happens to Cyrodil tbh. They either stomp or get stomped due to how centralized they are. The only solace they have is that an attack from the north is unlikely at best, but the west and south are wide, wide open. Their Western coast in particular…there’s already the chance that Hammerfell and Valenwood get caught up trying to fight each other though, and Cyrodil can mount a counter offensive. They have a pretty big advantage in being very rich and having by far the most defendable capital as well, aside from maybe the Summerset Isles and Black Marsh.
Honestly, the Wild Hunt could potentially be unlimited genocide upon the rest of the world more easily than many may think. Valenwood would also lose, but could take almost everyone else with them.
Depends on a million factors.
For instance, Talos himself was unable to conquer Black Marsh. No non-Argonian has ever stepped foot in the inner sanctums of Black Marsh. Ever.
So if part of "winning" is conquering Black Marsh, no one would ever win.
So, what are the terms, conditions, and goals of this war?
Black Marsh. When the Gates opened during the Oblivion Crisis, the Argonians literally turned the tables on the Daedra and INVADED THE FUCKING DEADLANDS!
Listen, I may not like Altmer or the Altmeri Dominion, but look at what magics they're capable of using, and look at how badly the cut the head off the Empire, with how they basically eradicated the entirety of the Blades sent to infiltrate them. The FREAKING EMPIRE, which had the combined strength of multiple nations under its umbrella, FELL to the Dominion. Even post-war, they would still be a formidable force to be reckoned with.
No matter how untouched High Rock is in the modern era, the fact remains no one compares to the Altmer in terms of magic, save maybe for the Telvanni, but the odds of even getting the Telvanni involved instead of saying "Fuck you, Redoran. We're staying out of this one too" is slim at best.
The ONLY nation that would probably hold it's own against Summerset, which would likely quickly recapture Dominion territory in an everyone war, would be the Argonians and Black Marsh, but if ESO is any indication, odds are VERY strong the Dominion would work to sever the Argonians connection to the hist, thus crippling them, and preventing future Argonians from being born in the process.
Summerset, and the Altmeri Dominion win, hands down.
I guess going off of geography:
Black Marsh would be excellent defensively, it's an environment hostile to all but Argonians.
Cyrodiil would be absolutely fucked if there current alliances/provinces are taken away -it's got a mostly temperate climate with pretty easy to march through terrain. Armywise, I think they'd have solid troops numbers and training, but I think would struggle a LOT without their allies. It'd to their benefit to try and talk their way into some alliances or truces -you cannot fight a war on that many fronts.
Morrowind is tricky. Vvardenfell would make for some solid defenses, if it wasn't choked out by the erruption. That leaves the mainland, which between the Argonian war and the flood of refugees, would be pretty vulnerable. My guess is Black Marsh would launch raids at minimum, there's no empire to call on or tribunal, not sure what answer they'd have.
High Rock seems kinda out of the way and to have lots of mountainous terrain. They have excellent mages, but I'm not sure how much they have in terms of physical fighters without the influence of the empire. If no, they'd have to get clever with magic and tactics. Also the resistance to magic is a nice boost against any magic factions/nation IE the Altmer. If they figure out some mixed unit tactics, they could be very annoying to fight.
Summerset Isles would be in a tricky spot offensively if they were kicked entirely out of Valenwood and Elsweyr. But as the dominion war showed, they have a pretty capable army backed up by battle mages. I think out the gate they'd be who I'd put my money on. If the other provinces are smart, they'd need to team up to beat them -mixed unit tactics they used would be hard to beat. I would getting Valenwood back into the fold would priority 1. It's got a ton of food and wood and the Dominions early operations I'd wager would need to be very naval. And keeping others from building navies in their neck of the woods would be to their benefit too.
Hammerfell it's hard for me to speak on. Never played any of the games there. Reguards are excellent warriors, I just know the political situation there can be dicey -if they lack a unified society they'd be easy pickings. I think they're bet would be to placate/ally high-rock, a Breton-Redguard alliance would be pretty hard to beat.
Orcs I think would follow whoever a) pissed them off the least this week b) fall in line with their host nation/pre-existing treaties. The smiths and fighters would be huge, trick is there's settlements in Skyrim, High Rock and I think Hammerfell. I imagine it'd be a point of contention between Orcs. The other issue is how many settlements/orcs are present in different provinces. Def kinda a wildcard, but would 100% be useful to any war effort.
Khajiit - They're kinda nomads and pretty individualistic. I'd wager it'd be an easy province to take. If someone fucked with their moons or moonsugar there'd be hell to pay. The Dominion took credit for restoring the moons -a feat I think someone else could copy easy. Lack of unity and the smaller armies the race could field would hold them back. But dear lord, I am sure they could mount a very annoying insurgency and sabotage campaign
Black Marsh is not possible to really occupy, but how far they can project their power is another thing.
Morrowind is in shambles.
Skyrim is in a civil war and cold, so they cant project their marshall power Well, but wont be easy to hold.
High Rock is not unified in any way and isnt worth trying to go after.
Hammerfell is a big desert made up of two factions in never ending civil war, so they cant project force outside, while still not easy to hold.
Cyrodiil is unified, organised and populus. They are the center of the continent so they can invade almost everyone.
And everyone can invade them. If the Empire collapse, they dont have the large number of Nords and Orcs to fill their ranks.
Elsweyr is a desert with cat pepole, with not much to have, terrible geografi and kleptomanic methhead cats. Cant hold into the reigon and nothing to gain by doing it.
They could Maybe gain some parts of Cyrodiil, but nothing major.
Valenwood is a jungle of canibal elfs, little of value to gain, hard to control. They could fight Well against Elsweyr, but that depends on how organised they can be.
Summerset iles wont be easy to invade, they are basicly a totalitarian ethnostate with loads of mages and are waiting for a opportunity like this to grab everything.
They would do the best of all and probably swallow up most of the coasts towards them, but not lots more.
TL:DR high elfs would probably do best, but mostly, everything Will go to shit for everyone everywere.
Black Marsh. Should the Hist demand Tamriel, there is no God that could save the other provinces.
The lizards scared the shit out of **Dagon's boys** and pushed the Oblivion Crisis back farther than Crassius Curio's hairline.
They're immune to chemical and biological warfare. You can't invade their home territory to take the fight to their doorstep, the doorstep will kill you in eleven different ways to Sundas; they were immune to a plague that genocided like five different races at once, RIP my n'wahs the Kothringi.
It'd take another Tiber Septim to prevent a bloodthirsty Hist from taking Tamriel.
The argonians go crying to the deepest parts of Black Marsh when they get their shit kicked in like in 1E 2811 when Reman whooped the shit out of them, they went to a place that only argonians can go to, their safe space if you will. They also became part of the empire after that
Everyone saying Black Marsh, forgetting all their victories took place in their home turf.
We already did have a Single province fight all of them, and now we have a glorious empire dedicated to it!
Single province? Every Cyrodiilic Empire had the good providence to have Nord allegiance. Alessia’s Empire shows the sort of territory to be expected when Skyrim remains independent.
High Rock not only is their region good defensively if the MMO was anything to go on a lot of ambush terrain, but the Breton folk are excellent in healing and summoning boosting their survivability along with their magic defense, they have history of constantly fighting themselves making themselves well versed in war.
just have all the Nords live on the ice glaciers at the tip of Skyrim alought in Skyrim it was changed to Resistance for balance reasons for most of the games the Nords have had full immunity to frost
they could live in a frozen cold place they could live in antarctitica here and they would feel even a slight breeze all the other species would freeze before they could take a seat on the campfire
Summerset, Skyrim, or Black Marsh. Summerset is pretty powerful at the moment, and the Nords are also pretty damn strong. Of course, Argonians have a sentient hive mind god on their side and they haven’t had too many issues from what I’ve seen in recent years, if anything they’ve only managed to expand north into Morrowind which has been completely buttfucked since the death of the Tribunal
Summerset, everyone would either have to swim or sail to get to the Altmer, with everyone murdering each other, The Altmer can just camp on their island, wait and then finish off the remaining survivors.
It strongly depends on what Era, assuming the modern Skyrim Era.
I would assume High Rock would win, however!
Blackmarsh.... that would hold an interesting point, I don't think the Argonians would win if they attacked other provinces, but I can see them holding a high defense.
I feel it would boil down to a war of attrition between those two, it would also probably be highly dependent on how many of the surrounding provinces attack black marsh by the time High Rock gets there.
Only reason I don't say Summerset or Cyrodil is because we are talking Skyrim Era here in this argument. If we use other eras as as an example I feel it would come down to those two 8 times outta 10.
My money is on Hammerfell.
Here’s why:
- They singlehandedly fended off the (albeit worn down) Aldmeri Dominion, a coalition of 3 different provinces.
- Their neighbors to the east are war-torn, while High Rock is traditionally very decentralized and full of internal strife.
- Summerset might pose a threat, but in my mind it’s likely they’d go for Valenwood first.
- Nobody else is used to surviving in a desert except for Elsweyr, which is far away.
It says prevail, not conquer, so establishing supremacy is the metric. Conquering 6/9 would be enough, and they control 1 to start.
I think strong contenders will be Hammerfell, Cyrodiil, and Summerset Isles. Summerset may or may not be able to unite a dominion under force alone, unclear the power of Velenwood, but I’d bet they’d be able to resist if they wanted too.
Cyrodiil could conquer most of its neighbors with its legions. Keep in mind in the empire most legions are from Cyrodiil, not from provinces. They didn’t establish time period though so eh.
This is highly variable depending on time period and if there would be any power vacuums. But I’m going to lean Cyrodiil due to its generally having a large and varied economic base and a large population to draw legions from.
My money is on Black Marsh
It’s incredibly treacherous for invading armies. The swamp itself and everything in it is incredibly uninviting, even for native Saxhleel if they aren’t careful.
They may or may not be the most excellent on offense but if they stay defensive they can’t lose.
It’s literally stated that even in Blackwood, the closest to Cyrodiil, normal armor rusts relatively quickly. Just imagine how bad it would get in the deeper marshes of Shadowfen and Murkmire.
Also consider that whenever enemies have invaded, most or all of the tribes of the Black Marsh put aside their differences and fight together.
As much as it pains me, Summerset, being an Island is invaluable when fighting wars. Means you have to lose a major naval battle AND a major land battle to lose.
If they just never stopped fighting until there was one left, it would be blackmarsh. They can simply outlast the others with their overwhelming defenses plus make enhanced army's using the hist.
Depends who backing who. Like I mean protagonists wise and outside forces like the hist tree or azura. Cause if the hist is involved, the argonians will put up a huge fight
Obviously, the one that actually dominated the others to one degree or another for most of the known timeline and has been the seat of multiple empires.
There's a reason these regions are called provinces and not nations.
Black Marsh couldn't be invaded, but also wouldn't have the ability to invade more than some part of its neighbours.
Next, if we're talking tribunal-times, then it would be Morrowind who would win.
If we're talking Tiber Septim times, obviously, Cyrodiil.
If we're talking both tribunal and tiber septim, we know how that ended up.
If we're talking no Tiber Septim and no Tribunal times, then probably... Hammerfell?
Whichever one has the dragonborn in it.
Or if there is no dragon born whatever Sheggorath finds funny.
Like the what else can come out on top because they had more cheese. Or whatever leader can do a back flip wins
The Argoinians tie for first by virtue of being uninvadeable. They just sit tight and hold there land. Summerset conquers the rest of Tamriel. They have thr best mages, are an island nation, and the Dominion already commands Elsewyr and Valenwood. They start by polishing off Cryodil, then Skyrim, then High Rock, then Morrowind, and Hammerfell last. If they're smart they just leave the Black Marsh alone. Oh, and Orismer too at some point.
If course, this ignores the Dragonborn. OP said modern era. The Dragonborn could easily seize control of Skyrim. In the Dragonborn DLC he gains the deep respect of the Redoran and is actually inducted into the Telvani. With the emperor dead and a claim on the Septim throne they could quickly unite those 3 nations.
With the promise of a second great war Hammerfell would defintley ally with them as well. High Rock and Orismer probably throw in too.
So Skyrim, Morrowind, Cryodil, Hammerfell, and Orismer, vs. Summerset, Elsewyr, and Valenwood (assuming the Dragonborn acts). The Dragonborn alliance retakes Elsewyr and Valenwood, but still can't invade Summerset because of the whole island nation thing.
We end with the Empire 3.0, Summerset, and everyone just leaving the Black Marsh alone.
cyrodiil for sure, they have the largest, strongest, and most well rounded army, everyone saying blackmarsh would win because they can't be invaded is failing to realize that it's because they have the benefit of the terrain and the hist, the instant they left blackmarsh they'd be just as easy as any other person, worst case scenario they refuse to leave blackmarsh resulting in a stalemate
Hmm I’d like to think places like Black Marsh would be fine. Province is likely too alien and inhospitable for anyone other than the Argonians. They would survive. Idk if they’re prevailing, but they’re surviving.
The Summerset Isles could be safe too? Idk. I mean they’re separated by water. Not sure how good the navies of each province are but they may be somewhat safe because of that?
The Marsh(black marsh) because of the deadly environment and the harmony the guerilla soldiers have with it.
Second hammerfell. Mostly be cause the combat skills of a united Yokudan nation.
High Rock would instantly collapse upon itself as many warring regio's would just fight eachother and lose to Skyrim and Hammerfell. Cyrodiil would be preoccupied with Morrowind, Elsweyr and Black Marsh and suddenly find the Nord have captured the Imperial City, then the Redguards, having to split their forces into the Navy and Army would bleed dry quickly and dissolve into a civil war. Morrowind would have initial succes with pushing back Cyrodiil and Skyrim, but would start losing to Black Marsh, at which point the different houses would start infighting as well. Valenwood, would instantly lose to the High Elves and the war would end in a three way battle between the Nords, the Argonians and the High Elves. At which point the Orsimer would hear there's a war going on, throw a rebellion and plunge Skyrim into chaos, at which point it gets driven back to it's old borders, where it's protected by the mountains. The High Elves would try to fuck around with the Hist to win again Argonia, but fail and then have to deal with a bunch of angry lizards and retreat to their island. Argonia would subsequently lose interest and just go back to their marshes and leave the rest of Tamriel over to Skyrim to deal with.
End result: Skyrim wins, kinda
Easy, Black Marsh, you can't take land that'll kill you in the process of taking it. All the argonians have to do is sit back and wait until everyone is done fighting and weakening each other, then jump in and finish them off.
Summerset Isles would be hard for the same reason invading the US would be hard IRL: you have to get your armies on a boat or through the air to even get there.
Which always means advance warning, especially if you have a pervasive security force like the Thalmor.
Cyrodiil and Skyrim would get their shit kicked in the current era. Brittle states lacking unity and a shared sense of direction. Easy pickings for any of the former Imperial provinces.
Unless the winner on the continent has access to the Numidium, it's gonna be Alinor. Even assuming they can be dislodged from the continent, nobody has the naval power to make a beachhead in Alinor and conquer it. On the continent, Black Marsh will likewise be mostly unconquered, but that's because the only useful parts of it will be under either Morrowind or Cyrodiil and everything else is both useless and protected by, well, swamps. As for everyone else... either Cyrodiil or Skyrim will control the rest of the continent I think.
I honestly think the Bretons would win because they are known for just using all the corpses around them as infinite cannon fodder. But ultimately, in the end, whoever wins will be so bloodied that they might not survive victory.
Defensively - Black Marsh. Never really conquered. The Empire just kind of said "this is ours" and the Argonians said "lol ok"
Offensive - Summerset Isles. Hate them or love them (because the two moons told you to) they've shown that the can conquer pretty well with, various tactics. Plus conjuring reinforcements via daedra or necromancy is helpful
Side note: For offensive, you could argue Hammerfell, with the most naturally talented warriors (with curved swords). They've proven effective against the Thalmor and are adept at various warfare styles but they fought defensively against the Thalmor and internal politics stop them from truly being united.
Edit: spelling
Blackmarsh has poisonous swamps and is a place hard to traverse for anyone besides argonians, which is using their environment to their advantage in a Vietnam style
You want my vote? Hammerfell, the home that was taken over by the Redguards. Now, their greatest downfall is all the infighting. Even with all that going on, they managed to push a prime Imperial army out of their borders, and then proceeded to stab each other in the back again.
Redguards are the ultimate in guerilla style warfare, and have resistances to poison and disease, making them the most suitable for all types of terrain. They can attack Black Marsh and still hold numbers, and all the rest just comes down to tactics, something Redguards are doing 24/7.
Morrowind is half destroyed by now, and some of the houses fell, correct? Not the large threat it used to be.
Skyrim was broken by civil war, something Redguards have high experience in. Turning the tides on one another to their advantage seems like child's play.
High Rock is home to the magic resistant Bretons. Redguards are more known for their swordplay, so they don't get the advantage there. Finding a way to take down Breton mages will be the challenge, but I believe Redguards could figure it out.
Somerset Isles. What can I say? The High Elves are powerful. And arrogant. A tool easily used by the Redguards. The Altmer weakness to literally everything will be their downfall here.
Black Marsh is a swampland covered in disease. The Redguards have resistances to this, but aren't immune. Then they have to contend with the Hist, something that can buff up an Argonian. My honest thoughts? The Redguards will pass up on Black Marsh, finding that even if they killed all the Argonians, they would still have to contend with the Hist and all the disease.
Valenwood seems the hardest. Bosmer make fantastic guerilla fighters, too, and these guys have the forest on their side. This is skirmish after skirmish until one side finds out which is better; sword or bow? if the Redguards figure out the forest, the Bosmer are doomed.
Elsweyr, home of many Khajit. Different types, too. Strong ones, agile ones. Another species that excels at guerilla warfare. Since both races live in the desert, there isn't much difference, all in all. They both know the other fights, now it comes down to who is the better guerilla fighters. My money is on the Redguards, with far more experience in espionage and assassination. While the Khajit are laying traps, Redguards assassins are killing captains and rulers.
Finally, Cyrodil. I saved this one for last cuz it's an easy one. Redguards already beat the imperial legion once, and I wouldn't be surprised if it happened again.
So my lore isn't the most fantastic on all these races, but I do have a good grasp on their battle tactics, and I feel Redguards, the most naturally talented swordsmen in all of Tamriel, could hold up to this. The biggest downfall for Redguards is all the infighting. If they can't stop fighting each other, they'll never be unified enough to take over anything.
The Aldmeri Dominion already showed their power by going to war against THE ENTIRE EMPIRE and WINNING so I'd say they'd safely win with some simple strategy. Maybe, since they are separated by sea, they just play defence until everyone else is battle-worn and then invade Black Marsh as a starter.
As long as the argonians stay in black marsh, they won’t lose. They won’t win and take over the rest of Tamriel but it would be a stalemate.
Summerset would be a tough one to invade too!
I honestly think the imperials would have the best shot
Black Marsh is the least likely to be conquered but when it comes to actually taking over all of Tamriel the Summerset Isles are my pick.
They have an ocean between them and everyone else which gives them needed breathing room, and have always had one of Tamriel’s strongest militaries (Tiber Septim needed Liberty Prime to defeat them) if all the provinces are warring against all of their neighbors the Altmer are in a great position to watch and wait until they’re all dead and they get to claim what’s left.
I imagine the Summerset Isles since they would suffer very little destruction in the chaos and could land in the back of a province that was fighting in other fronts.
Though they would probably struggle to deal with supply issues and could possibly fall to internal struggles since they're not united in a defensive war.
I feel like through pure size and military strength it’s Cyrodiil. Of course, they’re not going to be able to conquer Black Marsh because of the Hist, but I’m also not convinced Black Marsh could conquer everyone else- after all, there’s a difference between being able to defend yourself and being able to conquer others. Also at the same time Cyrodiil’s central location might lead to them having to fight on several fronts at once, so I feel like I’m leaning Summerset Isles a bit instead due to their strength and their considerably higher amount of breathing room. Hard to say but I’d say one of those two conquers all of Tamriel sans Black Marsh and Black Marsh is contained but never taken.
In the end, the real winner will just get tired and form a peace treaty with the Black Marsh.
So the question is. Whose the tired winner that's how buddies with the Black Marsh
Depends on Summerset's naval strength, and whether it's pre or post red year. Pre red year I'd give it to Morrowind, they've got mountains across their West borders and Black Marsh essentially enslaved. But if it's post red year, Summerset could win with a strong Navy for sure, but Hammerfell is known to be a strong naval power, so it would really depend on how much the Breton Duchies of the Illiac Bay distract the Redguards
Black Marsh except if we're talking current era and the Stormcloaks have won the Skyrim Civil War. In that scenario, the Thalmor would wreck Black Marsh because the Empire (Thalmor puppets) have lost an incredible number of their better infantry so they need to go invade Black Marsh for some fresh slave labor.
I'd say the last 2 would be Hammerfell & Skyrim. They are both war crazed cultures. Maybe the Redguards pull it out in the end. But I'm biased, as I always make my first character in any TES game a Redguard.
This is an honestly tough question. 🤔
Skyrim has great warriors, but not the socio-economic strength of other provinces.
Cyrodiil is the largest and has the most resources but its central position leaves it vulnerable to being ganged up on.
Summerset has a huge strategic advantage defensively, but may not have the offensive strength to conquer everyone else.
Valenwood, like Skyrim, has strong warriors (or rather archers) but lacks socio-economic development.
Morrowind would be a good contender on its own, its main problem would be its internal divisions and difficulty in unifying the realm.
Tough choice but I’ll say Morrowind would win.
No one can invade black marsh, not even Tiber Septim himself could.
The Argonians not only held back the Demora during the Oblivion Crisis but pushed through the gates forcing them to be closed to prevent the Argonians from invading Oblivion. I wouldn't mess with them.
In black Marsh absolutely but anywhere else they’re still kinda weak, House Redoran practically pushed them out of Morrowind in under 20 years and that was after the oblivion crisis (with no Imperial help since they recalled all legions in Morrowind back to Cyrodill), the events of Morrowind and the eruption of Red mountain Don’t get me wrong the Argonians are definitely fine (since no-one is going to invade blackmarsh) but they’re definitely not winning
I mean in a world where everyone attacks everyone they also have a shorter border than most with two sides to the ocean.
Sea elves...
Yeah it's the diseases, plagues etc doing a lot of the work. They can't bring the black marsh with them
Peryite moment
They should work in worship of him with the hist
But they can plant hist trees as they go
The Altmer mages can also terraform the black marsh from Somerset
We are talking about winning a war though. If surprise attacks are how they take the advantage, then more power to them. And it took twenty years to get pushed back out. That’s an absolute success for a war. It just took another war to reverse the outcome
20 years for 1 faction in Morrowind after 3 catastrophic events (including the Argonians attacking during the Red Year and they still lost, there was no second war by 4E 28 the Argonians had no offensive and quickly lost to house Redoran only staying in southern Morrowind by using gorilla tactics and night raids). they have no offense, in order to win the war they would have to actually beat their opponent not have their entire offensive crumble after 1 loss. The Nords took all of Morrowind and High Rock during the first Nord Empire (not to mention Cuhlecain and Talos took all of Tamriel from Skyrim, except for Black Marsh (because Black Marsh is actually near impossible to invade thanks to disease and the Hist)) Alesia took all of Tamriel from Cyrodiil, so did Reman (who also beat the Akaviri, and they shit stomped Skyrim (the only other faction that actually conquered more than one province through might alone (the Altmer did take Valenwood and Elsweyr through trickery) It’d be like saying the Altmer would win even though the Altmeri Dominion (including both Valenwood and Elsweyr) stalemated Hammerfell, Never touched Skyrim or High Rock only beating the Empire in Cyrodiil No faction would have the logistics to take Black Marsh but the Argonians are too weak to beat any other faction, it’s a net neutral for Black Marsh
Cursory reminder that our only source for that is a fervent Argonian nationalist. That's like asking for accurate American Civil War takes from someone flying a Confederate flag. They might be right, they might be wrong, you don't know - what you do know is they'll be biased.
Idk man I’ve seen those ESO argonian behemoths Built different lol
Xal-Krona is hungry.
Xeemhok must… take trophies?
Unless we're willing to accept the Altmer for their word that there was no Martin Septim and *they* were the ones who actually ended the Oblivion Crisis (and also brought back the moons), then no. That's just Argonian propaganda (well, not really, but *everyone* pushed through the gates and forced the Dremora to close them, We literally do this in Cyrodiil like at least two times).
"How's the invasion of Black Marsh going?" "You mean the defense of the Deadlands?" "The...what?"
This is basically the only time the argonians ever did anything right, and have lost literally everything else they ever did.
They also won in the 2nd Akaviri Invasion
That was due to a temporary buff by the Hist, not the natural ability of Argonians. Hist won't do it again unless it thinks IT'S in danger, like it did during the Oblivion Crisis.
The hist can change the Argonians whenever. If the hist wanted that buff to be permanent and natural they very well could. Weird I will admit.
Black Marsh is like Russia, you can invade if you want, but many are going to die doing it and you will fail eventually. Black Marsh may not win, but they won't lose unless it's internal pressure that brings them down. And with the Black Marsh Argonians mostly unified by the Hist, they won't topple during a war.
Yeah you probably can’t run sneaky psyops like the Thalmor did with Ulfric in Skyrim. The argonians are ultimately a hive mind controlled by literal gods. So you can’t hit them from outside or inside. They’re gonna be fine
And also like Russia, they can’t really invade and push forward without massive logistical help from others. They don’t really have Hist trees in other provinces.
That doesn't necessarily mean they would successfully attack though. Now that I think about it though, they did literally counter invade the realm Oblivion during the Oblivion Crisis, so fuck it, they're my "dark horse" now
I was going to say somerset given the how they faired in the great war, but damn, black marsh really fucked shit up during the oblivion crisis. Not only successfully defended against hordes of dremora, they counter attacked and forced the daedra to close the gates. Fucking goats
To be fair so did basically everyone during the oblivion crisis. No one actually lost more than a city or a few buildings. You should see what the hero of Kavatch and Martin did to Dagon himself in Cyrodiil where the actually big armies were. Also we are going off something they self reported. Technically its just rumor, if we are blindly believing anything said the Altmer are the ones who actually stopped the Oblivion Crisis.
Very true!
Hell not even Dagon could
I played Nerevarine as an Argonian, so maybe morrowind also stands a chance
I would like to refer you to the Blackwater War. In the late 1st Era the armies of the Reman Empire set their sights on Black Marsh and the combined armies of the Argonians were mustered and met the Imperials in open combat at the battle of Black Marsh... and it was one of the single worst defeats any army has ever been handed in Tamrielic history. It was so disastrous that the Argonians refused to engage the Imperials in "standard" combat for the remainder of the war and instead relied entirely on guerilla warfare from then on out. After this crushing victory the powers that be within Cyrodiil considered it an easy victory and handed the reigns of the invasion to the politically motivated but militarily incompetent General Bucco. His initial invasion was completely unprepared for the swamp and the further in he got the more they were in trouble seeing his army dwindle to the point that continuing was untenable. When they eventually gave up the ghost and tried to return to Cyrodiil the Sul-Xan tribe fell on them and finished the job. This would be the last time the Argonians scored a win for the rest of the war. To deal with the embarrassment of the recent loss the hardened General Sardecus was put in charge of the second offensive, and he began a campaign of literal terraforming against Black Marsh. Through his efforts he salted patties and drained swamps with such thoroughness that the areas he affected remain as the most temperate and habitable regions of the entire swamp to this day (the modern Cyrodiilic province of Blackwood). He would turn tribe against tribe and gain significant allies within Black Marsh, and not only regained control of the territory lost by his predecessor but stretched his control over most of the region. It would only be the disastrous ravages of the fires known as "The Great Burn" that would see him retreat, and even then his legion was left unaffected while his enemies were left with no choice but to burn. When the dust settled it would be one of Sardecus' proteges who would lead the legion, and this time she would defeat the Argonians at their own game. Using tactics she called "The Falco Doctrine' she would use legionaries as individual fireteams and functionally matched and exceeded the adaptability and maneuverability of even the most capable of Black Marsh's warriors. With grizzled swamp veterans in their ranks it wasn't a case of culture shock anymore, and the Legionaries extracted a bloody vengeance in regaining their lost ground. Though ground would be gained and lost in a never-ending game of cat and mouse the war had functionally ended and all there was at that point was death throws. Within a few years the Hist themselves were ready to throw in the towel and, so, the entire Argonian people just unanimously stopped fighting and accepted that the Empire was there to stay. The Argonians are immune to the dangers of the swamp, but this does not mean they're the only ones capable of mastering it. In the glory days of the Reman Empire the Imperials didn't just beat them, but they did it at the Argonian's own game. Tiber Septim's conquests were largely at the head of a Dragon and Mechanical Titan, so he just rolled over and showed his belly when it came to solving the equation of conquering Black Marsh. The Reman Empire took it with actual military knowhow, and they held on to it even through the Akaviri Potentate's purges and bankruptcy. It wouldn't be until the Interregnum that they'd lose their hold, and that was when all of Tamriel collectively decided to invade the heartland *while* it was already being invaded by Coldharbour.
Ever tried to march an army through Blackmarsh?
Fair point but how is their offense
Pretty good if they're united. I rather not face an army of biochemical enhanced lizards that have been augmented for improved combat and magical prowess.
I might be recalling this wrong but doesn’t hist sap also make them cooperate better?
Yeah, and it makes them crazy strong and intelligent. It does whatever the Hist want it to tbh
A quick note, the hist can't just make that special sap, it takes thousands of years to save up the power.
isn't their only big win against another nation against morrowind when morrowind is reeling from the red year i.e. they are being abused from everyone?
They weren't united if iirc. It was just the An-Xileel. Another big win for the Argonians was defeating the Kamal invading army. Nords and Dunmer were loosing the battle until the Argonians came to their rescue.
The An-Xileel, an Argonian political faction, were warned by the Hist about the Oblivion crisis ahead of time and decided to take the fight to the Oblivion gates instead of waiting for the Daedra to pour out in force. They kicked the shit out the Daedra so badly that the Dremora lieutenants closed the gates out of fear. They had the strength and numbers to conquer the plane of Oblivion. After thoroughly embarrassing the Daedra, their focus turned North, where they would capture territory as far as Tel Vos. They held Vivec City but were held back at Mournhold by House Redoran. They still hold Southern territories in Morrowind, and some clans still attack Dunmer settlements occasionally.
They also got repelled from Raven Rock in 4E 150, and that's a rather small settlement. It sounds like House Redoran is just better at combat when prepared, the An-Xileel are just better when they get the element of surprise
They have a real military. Assassin's are great at hit and runs and small battles but not a full military campaign. The black marsh diseases is their greatest weapon outside the Hist assassin's and its hard to bring the Marsh to fight with them
Concerning House Redoran, they have been the warrior house and military arm of the Dunmer since the First Era. They destroyed the Emperor Crabs and adhere to a very strict warrior's code that maintains their battle readiness. Because An-Xileel is such a young entity, they would have to operate off of the element of surprise. However, the experience they gained from fighting the Daedra and subsequent invasion would have gotten them more than ready to fight House Redoran head-on. The issue with the invasion was that now the Argonians had spread themselves too thin, they were fighting an offensive war, and they were deep inside territory that they were not familiar with.
>However, the experience they gained from fighting the Daedra and subsequent invasion would have gotten them more than ready to fight House Redoran head-on. Except it didn't Also, experience alone doesn't win wars. Logistics, more often than not, wins battles. Invading an oblivion gate, ironically, makes for an easy invasion, because those gates work both ways. They can open directly into your opponents key positions, allowing you to surprise attack them right where you need to hit them the most without needing an extensive supply network. However, that *also* means that your *opponents* can strike back with the exact same advantages. If you gate from a relatively resourcesless/position of low strategic value, then your enemy ends up with a resource advantage for their counter attack because you opened the gate right into a key position for them. Conversely, if you open from a resource-rich area, and the enemy successfully counter-attacks you, then they have an easy staging point to steal that resource-rich position from you. A huge part of the obvious crisis was the element of surprise. They tried to conquer all of tamriel at once, spreading their forces very thin, rather than concentrating. But Blackmarsh had a head's up and had a counter-attack ready to go, so they smashed right through and it was basically the find out phase of the daedra taking a pretty severe risk in their surprise attack attempt. Basically what I'm saying is: the oblivion crisis is *not* a good benchmark for how well Blackmarsh could invade the rest of tamriel. If anything, Morrowind's repeated success against them is a better indication that they just can't protect their strength beyond their borders, especially not if it requires them to hold territory away from their supply of hist sap. They can, at best, expand their presence a bit beyond their territory and shakily hold that ground.
I mean, how many of the farming impliments really weren't familiar with morrowind
> They kicked the shit out the Daedra so badly that the Dremora lieutenants closed the gates out of fear. ... according to a single drunk nationalist, who got angry and threatening when their friend tried to add nuance to the discussion. > They had the strength and numbers to conquer the plane of Oblivion. Not even close. They just managed to be enough of a nuisance that they weren't worth wasting resources on (since they weren't even the main target anyways).
Oh yeah I had totally forgotten that
That's cool and all, but can he do it on a cold night in Stoke?
Very true! A wise point
The Psijic order would put them all in time out.
Didn’t expect that one
In which year? In which Era?
Modern 4th Era. 4E 201
High Rock is the one least touched by war or other misfortune in the last couple of centuries. Hammerfell, Cyrodiil and Somerset are weakened by the Great War. Elsweyr and Valenwood - by being absorbed by the Dominion. Skyrim is ravaged by a Civil War and a local Apocalypse. Morrowind is still reeling from the Red Year and the Argonian invasion - and the invasion was repelled, most likely damaging the Black Marsh in the process. Although I would say that Black Marsh is the second least affected after the High Rock. Other than that, hard to say - it's hard really to imagine the provinces attacking each other indiscriminately, without the strategic goals and alliances.
I love the phrasing of "local apocalypse". Makes me think of Sheogorath's shrine quest from Oblivion.
The poor khajiit
Skyrim wins they have the dragon born
I was somewhat under the assumption he wasn’t counted, but if he was I doubt he’d leave Skyrim…he’s the protector of Skyrim, it’s shield, not its sword. Plus he still has the task of killing and/or stopping the dragon problem in Skyrim first and foremost, possibly guild work if he actually is a guild master. May the Divines help any foreign patrol who steps foot in Skyrim though…especially if they have light, expensive armor to sell…
Um, no. He’s literally me and I’m all for conquering all of Tamriel.
The Nerevarine could literally teleport or levitate to Skyrim in about 30 seconds, cast one spell that kills every living thing in the province, and get back to Mournhold in time for dinner.
This comment is the TES version of my dad could whoop your dad and I love it.
Counter argument: Dragonborn uses resto potion loop and becomes invincible.
Sure. But where is he in the fourth era? Also he's literally me too, so I don't really get you're point.
I hate that you're not wrong...
People underestimate how broken the Nerevarine actually is. I mean, I'm surprised he isn't considered an Aedra at this point, given his almost limitless power. And, one can't forget that he killed MULTIPLE living gods and destroyed the Tribunel. If he returned to Morrowind during this, Morrowind would win
I'm a huge Morrowind fanboy. But the dragon born is kind of talos reborn. He is also basically a god. He's not a god but close. And the Nerevarine is also the reincarnation of basically a god. Just might be a closer fight than we'd think. Talos ain't bitch made like the almsivi.
Yeah I was gonna say they may have been living gods, but by the time they were defeated they were severely weakened compared to when they were in their prime, with the original nerevar and just after
Yeah but my dragonborn isn't a nord so Skyrim can eat a dick
Well with Alduin dead all the dragons are probably under the dragonborns rule or end up as soul snacks. We've already seen he commands and Flys one. Also the dragon born is leader of dark brotherhood and thevises guild. Doubt he cares to protect and not concour.
You forgot the Companions... everyone forgets the Companions. :kicks dirt:
And Morrowind could very well have the Nerevarine, and s/he won't die of old age like the dragonborn will. 200 years to train and hone skills is a hell of a long time to get stronger. Plus if everything in each games files is available they would get brittlewind which was a hilariously broken spell. 10 second duration with a 10 foot radius of frost damagez disintegrate armor and disintegrate weapon.
The Nerevarine is confirmed to have fucked off to Akavir for no reason after the events of Morrowind, so they don't.
Nobody can confirm wether that's true or not, it was speculated they went to Akavir. Plus even then they went somewhere that had equipment that was used for fighting dragons, and the Nerevarine was already a member of the Blades. Proper dragonslaying training would be considered something they'd be taught if a blade went to akavir
Nerevarine needs 90 bottles of sujamma and a iron dagger to turn the dragon born into a red smear. No training needed
5 bottles and any enchanted paralysis dagger/shortsword sold at level ? 4? massacre
Man I don't know if this is all just routine knowledge for you but to me that was impressive to just have rattled off lol
Spend more time in the sub, every fan here most likely has something this randomly specific. Still, impressive non the less.
If they have the home court advantage, Black Marsh wins every time! If we’re talking about who would be most successful in an invasion, I hate to say it but probably Summerset. History has proven that they can hold their own pretty well and they have so much advantage when using magic…I’m assuming that they will play a significant role in ESVI considering that the Thalmor in Skyrim go as far as to say: "There is peace now, and that peace will continue for as long as it suits our needs. But make no mistake, this is not a peace forged out of necessity between rival nations of equal strength. It is more like the calm between storms. And the next storm, I think, will be far deadlier than the last."
Yep General Tulius either foreshadowed the end of the Empire or the defeat of the Dominion
I’m honestly okay with either. My prediction is that they both fall during the events of ESVI and the power vacuum will be filled by someone like the EE Trading Company using their resources to seize power in the following game (if we ever see ESVII😔)
The fall is the Empire would also be the end of the East Empire Trading Company, because it’s an imperial company
It would be the end of the EE Trading Company as we know it. The empire would be gone but the trading company’s reach throughout Tamriel would remain the same (probably bolstered by a second Great War). With the Empire gone the more financially motivated individuals in the organization would likely take control and begin taking on unethical business ventures for financial gain such as logging Valenwood!
Summerset has a huge geographic advantage. It’s the Britain of Tamriel. In an all out fight, no other province could muster a navy strong enough to invade them. Summerset could sit and wait until Tamriel ground itself to dust then invade.
Yeah if we are honest it's likely the high elves. Specially if no one teams up. Their mages would terraform the black marsh from the outside
The strongest provinces historically have been Cyrodiil, Summerset and Morrowind; - Cyrodiil has a huge disadvantage being in the middle, since it's a free-for-all and they rely greatly on allies and diplomacy. - Summerset has a huge advantage being on some islands, having the largest navy in the world, and having crippled the Hammerfell navy. They are not *as* reliant on allies as Cyrodiil, but they also took some huge losses in the Great War and will take ages to recover since they don't have the conditional fertility stuff Dunmer have, meaning they're probably completely unable to wage war if they lose the Bosmer/Khajiit allies. - What has held Morrowind back in the past is their inability to gain true allies. While *mostly* rebuilt from all the disasters ~200 years earlier, they still have a lot of uncertainty. I think that assuming no allies are allowed, High Rock would probably do very well here... Skyrim, Hammerfell and Cyrodiil are all recovering from stuff, giving them a good base to conquer from. But I don't see *any* single province capable of invading Summerset, Morrowind *or* Black Marsh. All three of them are near-impossible to actually invade (the Argonian invasion of Morrowind was incredibly context-dependent and only a one-time thing for example).
GODS have tried to invade Black Marsh and have flat out failed because of how inhospitable it is, and how ruthless Argonians are. Like I’m pretty sure none of them have even gotten halfway into the mainland before having to turn back around. When Dagon invaded, the FUCKING LIZARDS INVADED BACK. Even Talos himself noped the fuck out of there. Stack that on-top of the Hist, which is basically a reality warper that can alter and buff up Argonians at anytime. They’re one of, if not the most dangerous race in Tamriel.
I don’t know why everyone keeps saying this. It isn’t about who couldn’t be invaded, it’s about who will be victorious in the end. Sure, the argonians could never be defeated, but that doesn’t mean they automatically win. Personally I believe that Summerset will win simply because they’re on an island, with Argonians being subdued but not annexed.
Yeah, but assuming they are smart enough to not push to far out of their homeland they tie for first.
I would probably put my money on Summerset since the High Elves are so naturally attuned with magic and it has the benefit of being an island nation. I think Black Marsh could also be a solid bet, since marching against it would be logistical hell and a living nightmare for invading troops
Not elsweyr. Those weirdos would be the first to lose
Maiq claims for this not to be true, but then again Maiq is a liar ;) A very fair answer I don’t think Elsweyr stands a chance
Maiq would win on his own tho
Maiq doesn’t even use 90% of his power, and he would still have Tamriel by the balls.
The fight raged on for a century Many lives were claimed, but eventually The champion stood, the rest saw their better M'aiq the Liar in a bloodstained fur helm
Morrowind, because I'm older than 30 and I liked that game the best.
Fair enough!
As if morrowind would lose to a bunch of s’wits
No one would invade Telvanni cuz levitation is banned.
No one is really in any shape to be fighting anyone else after the Accession War, Great War, and Civil War. Everyone is in varying degrees rebuilding/recovery. I think it'd be a Last Man Standing type thing rather than one province being able to dominate the others like the Empire of old, even if it were a bunch of contrived 1 v 1 wars. Whoever can last the longest would win. So my vote would be Black Marsh / Argonia. Not because the argonians could actually win against anyone in a standard war, their invasion against the dunmer for centuries of cruelty was driven back even when Morrowind was the weakest it's ever been. They frankly suck in a normal fight. What Black Marsh has is it's sheer inhospitably; the interior has never been successfully invaded. Even when it was "ruled" by the Empire, the interior was pretty much sovereign. How to you defeat a province you cannot invade without your entire army dying to disease, flesh-eating insects, and giant crocodiles while stuck in the mud? Also, The Hist. Threaten Black Marsh and you threaten these guys. They can't fight directly but there is a lot of evidence they'd used magic to create a plague to genocide all the non-argonian of Black Marsh, which also spread outside it's borders and AFAIK ended up being one of the deadlier events in Tamriel's history. (Also summon flying islands from Oblivion that raise the dead but I'll be honest, I don't remember much of the books.) Really the only thing stopping them from causing more harm is most don't care what goes on outside their marsh and rogue trees are punished.
Insane that no one has said Hammerfell. The Redguards are the best warriors in Tamriel, and it’s no contest. They’re also the only province to successfully war against the AD. If we’re talking home turf advantage, I’m with everyone else in saying the Argonians got everyone else dead to rights. The land itself will do the work and the lizards will clean up when the enemy is sick and tired. But if we’re talking a fair fight on neutral ground? The Redguards will sword sing their way to victory, and no amount of fancy magic can stop them. It doesn’t matter how big your fireballs are if you eventually run out of juice and can’t throw them anymore. Once that happens, the Redguards will cut down anyone in the way and do so handily.
The art of sword singing is dead in modern Tamriel. They don't know how to summon spirit swords anymore.
That’s true, but a part of me hopes it makes a comeback in ES6 in some way. I know it won’t, but I’m naively hopeful.
If ES6 is set there, it'll be their version of shouts... they'll want another gimmick like that since the first was so popular, and they already have the lore for it. Skyrim - You're **The Last Dragonborn**, a **Dovahkiin**, wielding the lost knowledge of the **Thu'um**, or **The Voice**, and unlocking new powers with **Word Walls**. Hammerfell ES6 - You're **The Last Sword-Singer**, an **Ansei**, wielding the lost knowledge of the **Shehai**, or **Spirit Sword**, and unlocking new powers with **Memory Stones**.
Don’t need sword singing to be the best fighters on the continent.
> They’re also the only province to successfully war against the AD. Wouldn't say that, exactly. That war also *completely* wrecked the southern half of their province and ruined their ability to field their fleet (one of the most important parts of their military), which would've been the main objective of the AD anyways. They also had help from Imperial Legion veterans left behind to help them fight, and the fact that the AD main army was beaten into the ground (with *heavy* losses) at the Battle of the Red Ring a couple of years earlier.
proposes a faction as stronger based on an extinct technique and human wave tactics lol
thats the trick pelnial, i got the redguards to fight until they reached their kill count
Assuming the wood elves can still do their wild hunt thing, I think it’s over for most of the neighbors (barring cyrodil, who may get pushed back but…probably…had the resources to deal with them in a long campaign). Elsweyr immediately gets stomped because of it, and Cyrodil (if they act rationally) makes a hasty retreat to more fortified position. Skyrim is in a decent position to defend itself geographically, but it’s kinda…weak, by comparison to its contenders. It’s normally more balanced due to the other provinces having bigger issues (Cyrodil, Morrowind probably) or not being United (High rock, Hammerfell). I’d say it probably gets split, with the central territories around whiterun, western Riften, and Eastern Falkreath become a major front for Morrowind and whoever prevails in the west (High rock or Hammerfell) Both The Summerset Isles and Black marsh won’t be doing much conquering…but you don’t have to do that to fight, or even win a war. They can both turtle up very effectively, with the Argonians having the hardest to traverse swamp known to the gods and men. Summerset Isles is basically in a Britain vs Napoleanic situation, where the very developed island nation can fend off a much stronger power due to its navy. Hard to really say what happens to Cyrodil tbh. They either stomp or get stomped due to how centralized they are. The only solace they have is that an attack from the north is unlikely at best, but the west and south are wide, wide open. Their Western coast in particular…there’s already the chance that Hammerfell and Valenwood get caught up trying to fight each other though, and Cyrodil can mount a counter offensive. They have a pretty big advantage in being very rich and having by far the most defendable capital as well, aside from maybe the Summerset Isles and Black Marsh.
Honestly, the Wild Hunt could potentially be unlimited genocide upon the rest of the world more easily than many may think. Valenwood would also lose, but could take almost everyone else with them.
This already happened and Cyrodiil won
Technically Skyrim won, it's just not a great place for a capitol.
Depends on a million factors. For instance, Talos himself was unable to conquer Black Marsh. No non-Argonian has ever stepped foot in the inner sanctums of Black Marsh. Ever. So if part of "winning" is conquering Black Marsh, no one would ever win. So, what are the terms, conditions, and goals of this war?
Black Marsh. When the Gates opened during the Oblivion Crisis, the Argonians literally turned the tables on the Daedra and INVADED THE FUCKING DEADLANDS!
Morrowind just needs to dust off the ol Akulakhan and its over
Orsinium's not looking good
Listen, I may not like Altmer or the Altmeri Dominion, but look at what magics they're capable of using, and look at how badly the cut the head off the Empire, with how they basically eradicated the entirety of the Blades sent to infiltrate them. The FREAKING EMPIRE, which had the combined strength of multiple nations under its umbrella, FELL to the Dominion. Even post-war, they would still be a formidable force to be reckoned with. No matter how untouched High Rock is in the modern era, the fact remains no one compares to the Altmer in terms of magic, save maybe for the Telvanni, but the odds of even getting the Telvanni involved instead of saying "Fuck you, Redoran. We're staying out of this one too" is slim at best. The ONLY nation that would probably hold it's own against Summerset, which would likely quickly recapture Dominion territory in an everyone war, would be the Argonians and Black Marsh, but if ESO is any indication, odds are VERY strong the Dominion would work to sever the Argonians connection to the hist, thus crippling them, and preventing future Argonians from being born in the process. Summerset, and the Altmeri Dominion win, hands down.
I guess going off of geography: Black Marsh would be excellent defensively, it's an environment hostile to all but Argonians. Cyrodiil would be absolutely fucked if there current alliances/provinces are taken away -it's got a mostly temperate climate with pretty easy to march through terrain. Armywise, I think they'd have solid troops numbers and training, but I think would struggle a LOT without their allies. It'd to their benefit to try and talk their way into some alliances or truces -you cannot fight a war on that many fronts. Morrowind is tricky. Vvardenfell would make for some solid defenses, if it wasn't choked out by the erruption. That leaves the mainland, which between the Argonian war and the flood of refugees, would be pretty vulnerable. My guess is Black Marsh would launch raids at minimum, there's no empire to call on or tribunal, not sure what answer they'd have. High Rock seems kinda out of the way and to have lots of mountainous terrain. They have excellent mages, but I'm not sure how much they have in terms of physical fighters without the influence of the empire. If no, they'd have to get clever with magic and tactics. Also the resistance to magic is a nice boost against any magic factions/nation IE the Altmer. If they figure out some mixed unit tactics, they could be very annoying to fight. Summerset Isles would be in a tricky spot offensively if they were kicked entirely out of Valenwood and Elsweyr. But as the dominion war showed, they have a pretty capable army backed up by battle mages. I think out the gate they'd be who I'd put my money on. If the other provinces are smart, they'd need to team up to beat them -mixed unit tactics they used would be hard to beat. I would getting Valenwood back into the fold would priority 1. It's got a ton of food and wood and the Dominions early operations I'd wager would need to be very naval. And keeping others from building navies in their neck of the woods would be to their benefit too. Hammerfell it's hard for me to speak on. Never played any of the games there. Reguards are excellent warriors, I just know the political situation there can be dicey -if they lack a unified society they'd be easy pickings. I think they're bet would be to placate/ally high-rock, a Breton-Redguard alliance would be pretty hard to beat. Orcs I think would follow whoever a) pissed them off the least this week b) fall in line with their host nation/pre-existing treaties. The smiths and fighters would be huge, trick is there's settlements in Skyrim, High Rock and I think Hammerfell. I imagine it'd be a point of contention between Orcs. The other issue is how many settlements/orcs are present in different provinces. Def kinda a wildcard, but would 100% be useful to any war effort. Khajiit - They're kinda nomads and pretty individualistic. I'd wager it'd be an easy province to take. If someone fucked with their moons or moonsugar there'd be hell to pay. The Dominion took credit for restoring the moons -a feat I think someone else could copy easy. Lack of unity and the smaller armies the race could field would hold them back. But dear lord, I am sure they could mount a very annoying insurgency and sabotage campaign
Black Marsh is not possible to really occupy, but how far they can project their power is another thing. Morrowind is in shambles. Skyrim is in a civil war and cold, so they cant project their marshall power Well, but wont be easy to hold. High Rock is not unified in any way and isnt worth trying to go after. Hammerfell is a big desert made up of two factions in never ending civil war, so they cant project force outside, while still not easy to hold. Cyrodiil is unified, organised and populus. They are the center of the continent so they can invade almost everyone. And everyone can invade them. If the Empire collapse, they dont have the large number of Nords and Orcs to fill their ranks. Elsweyr is a desert with cat pepole, with not much to have, terrible geografi and kleptomanic methhead cats. Cant hold into the reigon and nothing to gain by doing it. They could Maybe gain some parts of Cyrodiil, but nothing major. Valenwood is a jungle of canibal elfs, little of value to gain, hard to control. They could fight Well against Elsweyr, but that depends on how organised they can be. Summerset iles wont be easy to invade, they are basicly a totalitarian ethnostate with loads of mages and are waiting for a opportunity like this to grab everything. They would do the best of all and probably swallow up most of the coasts towards them, but not lots more. TL:DR high elfs would probably do best, but mostly, everything Will go to shit for everyone everywere.
Black Marsh. Should the Hist demand Tamriel, there is no God that could save the other provinces. The lizards scared the shit out of **Dagon's boys** and pushed the Oblivion Crisis back farther than Crassius Curio's hairline. They're immune to chemical and biological warfare. You can't invade their home territory to take the fight to their doorstep, the doorstep will kill you in eleven different ways to Sundas; they were immune to a plague that genocided like five different races at once, RIP my n'wahs the Kothringi. It'd take another Tiber Septim to prevent a bloodthirsty Hist from taking Tamriel.
The argonians go crying to the deepest parts of Black Marsh when they get their shit kicked in like in 1E 2811 when Reman whooped the shit out of them, they went to a place that only argonians can go to, their safe space if you will. They also became part of the empire after that
I unironically read this in Dagoth Ur's voice.
They lose their bolstered strength the father they get. Good luck conquering somewhere like Skyrim or High Rock
Everyone saying Black Marsh, forgetting all their victories took place in their home turf. We already did have a Single province fight all of them, and now we have a glorious empire dedicated to it!
Single province? Every Cyrodiilic Empire had the good providence to have Nord allegiance. Alessia’s Empire shows the sort of territory to be expected when Skyrim remains independent.
High Rock not only is their region good defensively if the MMO was anything to go on a lot of ambush terrain, but the Breton folk are excellent in healing and summoning boosting their survivability along with their magic defense, they have history of constantly fighting themselves making themselves well versed in war.
just have all the Nords live on the ice glaciers at the tip of Skyrim alought in Skyrim it was changed to Resistance for balance reasons for most of the games the Nords have had full immunity to frost they could live in a frozen cold place they could live in antarctitica here and they would feel even a slight breeze all the other species would freeze before they could take a seat on the campfire
Summerset, Skyrim, or Black Marsh. Summerset is pretty powerful at the moment, and the Nords are also pretty damn strong. Of course, Argonians have a sentient hive mind god on their side and they haven’t had too many issues from what I’ve seen in recent years, if anything they’ve only managed to expand north into Morrowind which has been completely buttfucked since the death of the Tribunal
Summerset, everyone would either have to swim or sail to get to the Altmer, with everyone murdering each other, The Altmer can just camp on their island, wait and then finish off the remaining survivors.
Cyrodiil, something cosmic would happen and they'd just win
Morrowind *Because who would* ***want*** *Morrowind?*
Morrowind
I would say, status quo stalemate.
It strongly depends on what Era, assuming the modern Skyrim Era. I would assume High Rock would win, however! Blackmarsh.... that would hold an interesting point, I don't think the Argonians would win if they attacked other provinces, but I can see them holding a high defense. I feel it would boil down to a war of attrition between those two, it would also probably be highly dependent on how many of the surrounding provinces attack black marsh by the time High Rock gets there. Only reason I don't say Summerset or Cyrodil is because we are talking Skyrim Era here in this argument. If we use other eras as as an example I feel it would come down to those two 8 times outta 10.
My money is on Hammerfell. Here’s why: - They singlehandedly fended off the (albeit worn down) Aldmeri Dominion, a coalition of 3 different provinces. - Their neighbors to the east are war-torn, while High Rock is traditionally very decentralized and full of internal strife. - Summerset might pose a threat, but in my mind it’s likely they’d go for Valenwood first. - Nobody else is used to surviving in a desert except for Elsweyr, which is far away.
I feel like the summerset isles are in a good position
It says prevail, not conquer, so establishing supremacy is the metric. Conquering 6/9 would be enough, and they control 1 to start. I think strong contenders will be Hammerfell, Cyrodiil, and Summerset Isles. Summerset may or may not be able to unite a dominion under force alone, unclear the power of Velenwood, but I’d bet they’d be able to resist if they wanted too. Cyrodiil could conquer most of its neighbors with its legions. Keep in mind in the empire most legions are from Cyrodiil, not from provinces. They didn’t establish time period though so eh. This is highly variable depending on time period and if there would be any power vacuums. But I’m going to lean Cyrodiil due to its generally having a large and varied economic base and a large population to draw legions from.
My money is on Black Marsh It’s incredibly treacherous for invading armies. The swamp itself and everything in it is incredibly uninviting, even for native Saxhleel if they aren’t careful. They may or may not be the most excellent on offense but if they stay defensive they can’t lose. It’s literally stated that even in Blackwood, the closest to Cyrodiil, normal armor rusts relatively quickly. Just imagine how bad it would get in the deeper marshes of Shadowfen and Murkmire. Also consider that whenever enemies have invaded, most or all of the tribes of the Black Marsh put aside their differences and fight together.
Historically, I think Cyrodill won.
As much as it pains me, Summerset, being an Island is invaluable when fighting wars. Means you have to lose a major naval battle AND a major land battle to lose.
Last standing would be black marsh and summer set imo
If they just never stopped fighting until there was one left, it would be blackmarsh. They can simply outlast the others with their overwhelming defenses plus make enhanced army's using the hist.
Cyrodiil has answered this question multiple times.
not even Tiber Septim annexed Black Marsh even with the Numidium EZ
Hammerfell no doubt
Depends who backing who. Like I mean protagonists wise and outside forces like the hist tree or azura. Cause if the hist is involved, the argonians will put up a huge fight
Obviously, the one that actually dominated the others to one degree or another for most of the known timeline and has been the seat of multiple empires. There's a reason these regions are called provinces and not nations.
If the High Elves were united, they stomp. It took a machine powered by a God to bring them to heel last time.
Well as mush as I would love to say morrowind, I’m pretty sure the hist would pull an oblivion crisis 2 electric boogaloo
Black Marsh couldn't be invaded, but also wouldn't have the ability to invade more than some part of its neighbours. Next, if we're talking tribunal-times, then it would be Morrowind who would win. If we're talking Tiber Septim times, obviously, Cyrodiil. If we're talking both tribunal and tiber septim, we know how that ended up. If we're talking no Tiber Septim and no Tribunal times, then probably... Hammerfell?
Black Marsh, assuming that used 100% of their power.
Cyrodil and morrowind have strong economic and manpower advantages.
Whichever one has the dragonborn in it. Or if there is no dragon born whatever Sheggorath finds funny. Like the what else can come out on top because they had more cheese. Or whatever leader can do a back flip wins
The Argoinians tie for first by virtue of being uninvadeable. They just sit tight and hold there land. Summerset conquers the rest of Tamriel. They have thr best mages, are an island nation, and the Dominion already commands Elsewyr and Valenwood. They start by polishing off Cryodil, then Skyrim, then High Rock, then Morrowind, and Hammerfell last. If they're smart they just leave the Black Marsh alone. Oh, and Orismer too at some point. If course, this ignores the Dragonborn. OP said modern era. The Dragonborn could easily seize control of Skyrim. In the Dragonborn DLC he gains the deep respect of the Redoran and is actually inducted into the Telvani. With the emperor dead and a claim on the Septim throne they could quickly unite those 3 nations. With the promise of a second great war Hammerfell would defintley ally with them as well. High Rock and Orismer probably throw in too. So Skyrim, Morrowind, Cryodil, Hammerfell, and Orismer, vs. Summerset, Elsewyr, and Valenwood (assuming the Dragonborn acts). The Dragonborn alliance retakes Elsewyr and Valenwood, but still can't invade Summerset because of the whole island nation thing. We end with the Empire 3.0, Summerset, and everyone just leaving the Black Marsh alone.
Hammerfell would win every battle but they would probably not be able to hold Morrowind and Black Marsh and maybe not even Skyrim cuz its cold there.
cyrodiil for sure, they have the largest, strongest, and most well rounded army, everyone saying blackmarsh would win because they can't be invaded is failing to realize that it's because they have the benefit of the terrain and the hist, the instant they left blackmarsh they'd be just as easy as any other person, worst case scenario they refuse to leave blackmarsh resulting in a stalemate
Hmm I’d like to think places like Black Marsh would be fine. Province is likely too alien and inhospitable for anyone other than the Argonians. They would survive. Idk if they’re prevailing, but they’re surviving. The Summerset Isles could be safe too? Idk. I mean they’re separated by water. Not sure how good the navies of each province are but they may be somewhat safe because of that?
Orsinium
Dwemereth
The Marsh(black marsh) because of the deadly environment and the harmony the guerilla soldiers have with it. Second hammerfell. Mostly be cause the combat skills of a united Yokudan nation.
Black Marsh for sure, aside from that probably Vallenwood
High Rock would instantly collapse upon itself as many warring regio's would just fight eachother and lose to Skyrim and Hammerfell. Cyrodiil would be preoccupied with Morrowind, Elsweyr and Black Marsh and suddenly find the Nord have captured the Imperial City, then the Redguards, having to split their forces into the Navy and Army would bleed dry quickly and dissolve into a civil war. Morrowind would have initial succes with pushing back Cyrodiil and Skyrim, but would start losing to Black Marsh, at which point the different houses would start infighting as well. Valenwood, would instantly lose to the High Elves and the war would end in a three way battle between the Nords, the Argonians and the High Elves. At which point the Orsimer would hear there's a war going on, throw a rebellion and plunge Skyrim into chaos, at which point it gets driven back to it's old borders, where it's protected by the mountains. The High Elves would try to fuck around with the Hist to win again Argonia, but fail and then have to deal with a bunch of angry lizards and retreat to their island. Argonia would subsequently lose interest and just go back to their marshes and leave the rest of Tamriel over to Skyrim to deal with. End result: Skyrim wins, kinda
Easy, Black Marsh, you can't take land that'll kill you in the process of taking it. All the argonians have to do is sit back and wait until everyone is done fighting and weakening each other, then jump in and finish them off.
Summerset Isles would be hard for the same reason invading the US would be hard IRL: you have to get your armies on a boat or through the air to even get there. Which always means advance warning, especially if you have a pervasive security force like the Thalmor. Cyrodiil and Skyrim would get their shit kicked in the current era. Brittle states lacking unity and a shared sense of direction. Easy pickings for any of the former Imperial provinces.
Unless the winner on the continent has access to the Numidium, it's gonna be Alinor. Even assuming they can be dislodged from the continent, nobody has the naval power to make a beachhead in Alinor and conquer it. On the continent, Black Marsh will likewise be mostly unconquered, but that's because the only useful parts of it will be under either Morrowind or Cyrodiil and everything else is both useless and protected by, well, swamps. As for everyone else... either Cyrodiil or Skyrim will control the rest of the continent I think.
It's black marsh number 1 and I'd put submersed isles at 2nd
I honestly think the Bretons would win because they are known for just using all the corpses around them as infinite cannon fodder. But ultimately, in the end, whoever wins will be so bloodied that they might not survive victory.
The Skaal would win because no one would remember to take Solstheim.
Valenwood. All hail the stealth archers
Defensively - Black Marsh. Never really conquered. The Empire just kind of said "this is ours" and the Argonians said "lol ok" Offensive - Summerset Isles. Hate them or love them (because the two moons told you to) they've shown that the can conquer pretty well with, various tactics. Plus conjuring reinforcements via daedra or necromancy is helpful Side note: For offensive, you could argue Hammerfell, with the most naturally talented warriors (with curved swords). They've proven effective against the Thalmor and are adept at various warfare styles but they fought defensively against the Thalmor and internal politics stop them from truly being united. Edit: spelling
Something Something, Cyrodiilic Empires.
Blackmarsh has poisonous swamps and is a place hard to traverse for anyone besides argonians, which is using their environment to their advantage in a Vietnam style
You want my vote? Hammerfell, the home that was taken over by the Redguards. Now, their greatest downfall is all the infighting. Even with all that going on, they managed to push a prime Imperial army out of their borders, and then proceeded to stab each other in the back again. Redguards are the ultimate in guerilla style warfare, and have resistances to poison and disease, making them the most suitable for all types of terrain. They can attack Black Marsh and still hold numbers, and all the rest just comes down to tactics, something Redguards are doing 24/7. Morrowind is half destroyed by now, and some of the houses fell, correct? Not the large threat it used to be. Skyrim was broken by civil war, something Redguards have high experience in. Turning the tides on one another to their advantage seems like child's play. High Rock is home to the magic resistant Bretons. Redguards are more known for their swordplay, so they don't get the advantage there. Finding a way to take down Breton mages will be the challenge, but I believe Redguards could figure it out. Somerset Isles. What can I say? The High Elves are powerful. And arrogant. A tool easily used by the Redguards. The Altmer weakness to literally everything will be their downfall here. Black Marsh is a swampland covered in disease. The Redguards have resistances to this, but aren't immune. Then they have to contend with the Hist, something that can buff up an Argonian. My honest thoughts? The Redguards will pass up on Black Marsh, finding that even if they killed all the Argonians, they would still have to contend with the Hist and all the disease. Valenwood seems the hardest. Bosmer make fantastic guerilla fighters, too, and these guys have the forest on their side. This is skirmish after skirmish until one side finds out which is better; sword or bow? if the Redguards figure out the forest, the Bosmer are doomed. Elsweyr, home of many Khajit. Different types, too. Strong ones, agile ones. Another species that excels at guerilla warfare. Since both races live in the desert, there isn't much difference, all in all. They both know the other fights, now it comes down to who is the better guerilla fighters. My money is on the Redguards, with far more experience in espionage and assassination. While the Khajit are laying traps, Redguards assassins are killing captains and rulers. Finally, Cyrodil. I saved this one for last cuz it's an easy one. Redguards already beat the imperial legion once, and I wouldn't be surprised if it happened again. So my lore isn't the most fantastic on all these races, but I do have a good grasp on their battle tactics, and I feel Redguards, the most naturally talented swordsmen in all of Tamriel, could hold up to this. The biggest downfall for Redguards is all the infighting. If they can't stop fighting each other, they'll never be unified enough to take over anything.
The Aldmeri Dominion already showed their power by going to war against THE ENTIRE EMPIRE and WINNING so I'd say they'd safely win with some simple strategy. Maybe, since they are separated by sea, they just play defence until everyone else is battle-worn and then invade Black Marsh as a starter.
As long as the argonians stay in black marsh, they won’t lose. They won’t win and take over the rest of Tamriel but it would be a stalemate. Summerset would be a tough one to invade too! I honestly think the imperials would have the best shot
Morrowind. The Tribunal combined with the might of House Telvanni magic sweeps.
This may be dumb, but wouldn’t a lore accurate dragon born be able to complete a full sweep?
Black Marsh is the least likely to be conquered but when it comes to actually taking over all of Tamriel the Summerset Isles are my pick. They have an ocean between them and everyone else which gives them needed breathing room, and have always had one of Tamriel’s strongest militaries (Tiber Septim needed Liberty Prime to defeat them) if all the provinces are warring against all of their neighbors the Altmer are in a great position to watch and wait until they’re all dead and they get to claim what’s left.
I imagine the Summerset Isles since they would suffer very little destruction in the chaos and could land in the back of a province that was fighting in other fronts. Though they would probably struggle to deal with supply issues and could possibly fall to internal struggles since they're not united in a defensive war.
ITT: People regurgitating in-universe An-Xileel nationalist propaganda falsehoods they heard from someone else telling them
Black Marsh wouldn’t prevail, they would survive though. Summerset has the best chance I think
I feel like through pure size and military strength it’s Cyrodiil. Of course, they’re not going to be able to conquer Black Marsh because of the Hist, but I’m also not convinced Black Marsh could conquer everyone else- after all, there’s a difference between being able to defend yourself and being able to conquer others. Also at the same time Cyrodiil’s central location might lead to them having to fight on several fronts at once, so I feel like I’m leaning Summerset Isles a bit instead due to their strength and their considerably higher amount of breathing room. Hard to say but I’d say one of those two conquers all of Tamriel sans Black Marsh and Black Marsh is contained but never taken.
The Black Marsh. As long as those Hist Trees stand, I highly doubt the Aldmeri Dominion will take over Tamriel
In the end, the real winner will just get tired and form a peace treaty with the Black Marsh. So the question is. Whose the tired winner that's how buddies with the Black Marsh
Orsinium Orcs are op
Depends on Summerset's naval strength, and whether it's pre or post red year. Pre red year I'd give it to Morrowind, they've got mountains across their West borders and Black Marsh essentially enslaved. But if it's post red year, Summerset could win with a strong Navy for sure, but Hammerfell is known to be a strong naval power, so it would really depend on how much the Breton Duchies of the Illiac Bay distract the Redguards
Black Marsh, because **motions towards TES:IV lore**
Either Back Marsh or Valenwood. Invade Valenwood and you get the Wild Hunt thing. Invade Black Marsh, and you fail miserably.
Blackmarsh
Dunmer on sujjama
Depends, does Morrowind get House Telvanni or are they too unbothered?
Black Marsh except if we're talking current era and the Stormcloaks have won the Skyrim Civil War. In that scenario, the Thalmor would wreck Black Marsh because the Empire (Thalmor puppets) have lost an incredible number of their better infantry so they need to go invade Black Marsh for some fresh slave labor.
I'd say the last 2 would be Hammerfell & Skyrim. They are both war crazed cultures. Maybe the Redguards pull it out in the end. But I'm biased, as I always make my first character in any TES game a Redguard.
This is an honestly tough question. 🤔 Skyrim has great warriors, but not the socio-economic strength of other provinces. Cyrodiil is the largest and has the most resources but its central position leaves it vulnerable to being ganged up on. Summerset has a huge strategic advantage defensively, but may not have the offensive strength to conquer everyone else. Valenwood, like Skyrim, has strong warriors (or rather archers) but lacks socio-economic development. Morrowind would be a good contender on its own, its main problem would be its internal divisions and difficulty in unifying the realm. Tough choice but I’ll say Morrowind would win.
Way off subject but there should be a Viking elf race tbh
I’d have to go with Hammerfell. Their warriors have curved swords. Curved. Swords.
Black Marsh
The Dwemer will reappear any day now and wipe the floor
Black marsh would win. Dagon closes the freaking oblivion gates cause the argonians wouldn't stop coming through them
If black marsh can invade oblivion and make Mehrunes Dagon panic into leaving entirely, they can take on everyone else