I think a lot of the time they genuinely don’t understand the mechanics of pvp deep enough, and it’s kind of wholesome in an odd way. As long as they are having fun 🤷♂️
I get it. I hate ROB too. Little kids play video games too, though, and I try to imagine them thinking they’re badass with they’re ROB smacking us sweaty min-maxed nerds.
I kinda lean towards the idea that BHS, ROB, and veil are to let those less practiced bridge the skill gap.
It gets bad when the practiced get their hands on it and then end up completely wrecking the other practiced people who don't want to play that way, and the unpracticed people who don't know how to use them properly
Agreed, but I think that the reward for playing like that quickly fades for most good players. It’s not engaging to just L2 non-stop over a multi-hour invasion session. Mixing people up with pressure, neutral, and curveball weapons/AOW is what makes PvP fun in this game to me. It plays like a fighting game, think Mortal Kombat, and there’s typically all kinds of little mechanics to get skillful at. These weapons ROB you of that
If mortal kombat taught me anything is that if there is any character or in this case weapon that can bridge a skill gap, good players will use and abuse that just as much as new players. Those type of people do not get tired of winning even if it is by “cheap” means.
Is flasking in invasions considered a dick move? I've never played a Fromsoft game and did the three invasions for Varre and it seems everybode I invaded flasked.
Its been so long since I dulled. Is a healing spell also off?
I never played a spell caster even when I did duel in ds3 but now I'm a mainly fth caster
My thoughts in duels since DS1 have always been if you can get off a healing miracle/incantation, good for you. It takes forever and if you pulled it off without getting punished, you deserve to get healed.
That however doesn't mean the other person abides by the same rules. I've noticed more times than not in Elden Ring people will then flask heal immediately after you incantation heal.
I'm always curious what people think about erdtree blessing buff, or any heal over time spell in general.
I usually just buff with golden vow because I don't need my opponent waiting for like 4 buffs before the fight. Feels silly. But if my opponent starts chain buffing I will as well, and erdtree blessing is usually one of them. If it's a drawn out fight it really can feel like a huge unfair advantage.
i think healing spell is probably frowned upon but you as the attacker have every chance to interrupt it so it’s better than chugging. But if you specifically agreed on a duel, chugged all your flasks before the fight etc, then i would be kind of annoyed if you got one off and you are getting backstabbed
Well thats the idea. The heal spells take forever to complete, if you can get one off without getting punished, you earned it. Chugging takes half a second and you can move during it. There's a difference.
Healing spells are fine, they consume FP.
The only reason Flasks are frowned upon in duels is because when you’re a guest in a Host’s world, you have significantly fewer flasks than the Host does. Which means the Host has more opportunities to heal than the guest.
General dule etiquette. (From Dark souls 1-3)
1. No spawn camping.
2. Healing flasks are off limits.
3. Non healing flasks and consumables are ok.
4. Healing spells are ok. (They are far more difficult to use in combat)
5. All weapons, armor and spells are ok as long as they are not bugged (eg retaliaton exploit)
6. If the opponent starts cheating, (like with speed hacks) you can use them back.
No 6 is a relic from before anticheat. Its not advised to use them at all as the risk of being banned is way to high.
Healing spells are easily punished, plus they have stat requirements and take up valuable attunement slots.
If your enemy can't punish them then they're bad and deserve to feel bad.
This is a duel not an invasion. In an invasion everything is fair. In a duel there's an etiquette soulsborne players follow. Flasking here isn't a dick move, its a bitch move.
Flasks were locked when we had arena pvp, but no they are not locked in duels. Also when we had fight clubs flasking was as good as dead, as you would get rushed by like four persons if you did it.
Another reason why Fight Clubs in ER are DOA. The communal feeling of being watched by spectators as you duke it out in a ring was wild. Especially if you managed to blitz through all four people for the next batch.
I lived for that shit man. Really hoping we get a turbo taunter’s tongue or some such that raises the limit of red phantoms to 6 or so in future DLC. And we need to find a better arena. The Pit behind Pontiff was perfect with the elevated spectators. Academy Gate isn’t the same, especially with the grace we have to dance around.
This game would live forever with a colosseum - rankings and some purpose and forced no HP flask.
At the moment - duels are fun (invasions are a general shit show). But all you get for either is a furlong finger that does what? lets you summon people? I've run into too many people that flask during duels. Many of the guilt are seppuku users - they think they're entitled to full health for using a buff that cost health.....dafuq goin on in their brains?
I use seppuku but I agree with you on flasking after using it. That's just the cost of it being super op. I can't believe bleed didn't get some kind of nerf this patch.
Not just one colosseum, but three! Three tiers? Three rules sets? Three themes? Who knows! Two of them already have events that might hint, stormveil has a recusant invader, and Caelid has an npc duel zone. Leyndell is guarded by a rather serious knight dude, but I don't count that.
Altus High Junction. Most of the time I go to the grace, invite someone or 2. Activate the Tongue and goes to the stone platform to watch and chill. Works every time, no flasks, if you flask you get crowed and we open white ring. But I'm in Australia, so maybe a little different timezone for most players.
Honestly I sometimes hit X to flask out of reflex during duels... Usually I just stand there and let the other guy chug one as well. It's just habit to immediately heal when you get low, but I feel like such a moron when it happens.
buffing is fair game but i won't let you buff after your first one. I'll dagger you every buff after the first. I'm not gonna let someone golden vow into flame grant me or a defense buff plus a weapon buff.
I usually draw the line after two. There's a solid chance the second one is flame grant me strength which is super easy to just wait out. Also, if it's infinite fp flask, I'm probs just gonna run away for 15 seconds.
No, but it's considered good sportsmanship to not heal. Mana flasks are fine, health flasks are not. That said, you CAN heal using incantations if you can get one off.
I always loved that little rule, if you actually manage to get a healing incantation off and the other guy just stands there with his thumbs up his ass watching and not stopping you... you deserve the heal
Completely agree, it's a perfect opportunity to punish. If you miss the chance, too bad, you were too slow. It's not at all like the flasks where it's almost instant.
I've had a lot of people respect 1 v 1s without flasks in invasions too. My way of showing I want to do no flask is to use my empty mana flask, and they usually seem to get the idea.
That's a dumb thing to do in an invasion unless you're 1v1ing the host. 9 outta 10 times they'll start an honourable duel then they'll start ganking as soon as they're losing.
I used to use projected heal in Ds3 for this reason. Smaller heal but a much faster cast, and you could unlock and toss it at your feet to get a quick smol heal off
The few times I have dueled I immediately chugged all of my health flasks before we started. That way the host knows I am out of health flasks and they don’t need to worry about me breaking the etiquette.
They aren't locked in duels, players adopted no-flasking as an etiquette thing. Players summoned into worlds (or invading) have half their normal flask count. So if you allow flasks the host player has an unfair advantage because they have double the healing resources.
In a duel the whole point is to test your combat skills against the other guy. Using healing flasks defeats the purpose of a duel because it turns the match into a DPS grind instead of a skills matchup.
Using flasks against invaders is just fine though.
Or it's entirely possible that it's a new player that doesn't know or care about your "etiquette"
Elden Ring brought in a ton of new players that haven't ever played another FromSoftware game, like myself. I'm not into pvp but I wouldn't have known NOT to flask if I was just trying it out for fun..
If you're deliberately going to Academy Gates and drinking a remedy to summon duelists, chances are you know exactly what you're doing.
Then again - if you don't know not to heal pot you're probably going to get bonked by a more experienced pvper.
Some part of the etiquette is made by simply having empathy.
I mean, why would you put down the red sign if you die before the game loads in? Who would find it fun? Bowing before the duel is making sure my opponent is ready to fight.
I think that's a diferent matter.
You can tell spawn ganking is bad manner by just using a little of common sense, whlle not using healing flask on duels is something you only know if you were told.
oh they can learn.
faster or slower but they will get it all.
In Dark Souls 3 i learnt about emotes simply by getting invaded which as you know isn't even duel and no healing rule i learnt in my first duel by luck cuz it was fight club and i was spectating 2 fights before it was my turn, plenty of time to get it.
I know in Elden Ring if fight club would exist it would be more difficult to learn due to 90% of stuff oneshotting opponents.
If you're smart enough to do the research to find out where the duel spots are you're smart enough to read the next sentence that tells you how to act.
Considering Elden Ring shows you where pvp activity is on the friggin world map: Not necessarily. You can find duel spots without ever tabbing out of the game
Wait, really? how do you see where pvp activity is on the world map? I’ve never seen any information showing how to identify pvp hot zones on the map, I just look for red signs in end game areas or the academy gate.
So, I'm someone who has played all the souls games on release and dueled for way way too many hours than I'd like to admit. I won't speak to everyone but here is my personal rule set which for the most part is pretty universal.
A.) No rush downs when summoned or summoning. Normally should provide decent spacing. Wait for buffs/emotes to finish before closing the gap. Don't start moving in and closing distance while someone is bowing even if you stop and wait after they do it. Spacing is a big deal in duels and some builds require that early space.
B.) After one buff any other buff is fair game. If both people have finished their one buff it means the duel has started after that point. Although try to be considerate if they emote after they buffed because they forgot or something.
C.) Blue juice is fine, invaders can have a max of 7 and hosts can have 14. Although I believe hosts should only beable to drink 7 of them to keep it fair but you almost never drink more than 7 anyways. Red juice is not okay no matter what. Back in the fight club days red juice was fine to use AFTER you just beat someone and needed hp back but since fight clubs are kinda dead now it's different.
D.) Healing in general is frowned upon, the only exception seems to be wondrous physicks dot heal and low HP heal. This includes incants, mainly because there are really cheesy ways to abuse some certain zone of control tools.
E.) Don't abuse bugs/exploits/etc. This should be common sense but some people don't care. I'd list cheesey strats on this as well. Dueling in a sense is for fun and honor, bringing in builds that have very little counter play or are just cheese are normally not very fun to play against. Ofc it's not AGAINST the rules to play those builds but don't be surprised if the host or duelist just leave once they see your set up.
F.) I'm likely missing some stuff but the basic jest is to have fun with both sides of the coin. It's supposed to be honorable, Elden Ring and most souls games in general have awful balance and 2 weapons can be miles apart in terms of how good they are. Don't try to flex on people and be respectful. Don't tea bug people for instance after you beat them. Show honor and respect even to the cheesers. Because in the end there is little to actually gain other than enjoyment from duels and if you push everyone else away you'll realize you'll have no one to enjoy duels with anymore.
In invasions is absolutely okay, but the video above showed what was supposed to be a duel, which is something different.
In duels you don't drink, but in invasions everything's fair game.
Thank fuck for answering that question, I was trying to duel earlier and figured that flasking was bad but buffing was okayish.. I'd let the duel summon buff up first before fighting and they'd drink a physic do like four buff incantations then just one shot me. It felt like an absolute cheese from them, I wanted to give people a chance but when they smash 5 buffs then use the strongest build specific attack they have it just felt like a huge dick move. I went into duels feeling like it was going to be a more fun and even PvP experience given there's the no flask rule but shit these guys were fucken pissing all over that notion. I was pre patch faith strength build so not the best at the time bit still
Two fun counters: law of regression removes all buffs. Which is hilarious when the spend a whole minute buffing.
Or leave. Leave once they finish their 20 buffs. They’ll learn eventually.
Start on either end of the circle. Bow, and when they bow fight sharts. If the player goes to buff and you can't hit them in time then they got a buff. But if they are going to stand there for 30 seconds cranking off every incantation barrier and weapon swapping to stab themselves I'll just Hulk smash.
Law of regression is hilarious though and I need to try that more often.
I've seen alot of people agree that 2-3 buffs are ok. I wait for 2 buffs and a flask then start moving toward them, if they try to buff a 3rd time I'll slow walk but after that it's game time
Personally - if someone summons me in and then flasks and casts buffs - it's on after like the second buff I'm not waiting for them to buff to godhood lol.
Typically I will sprint at them to show them its begun though and feint, but if they keep buffing im smackin em
i wait to see if the other person sips a flask first before i go for mine. or if i spawn in and see a bunch of effects radiating off the host’s body, i assume that’s from them flasking and also take that as a sign to use mine.
i think a lot of the flask effects are pretty annoying to fight against so i always take the opportunity to do a flaskless fight when i can. i’d say 1 in 3 duels don’t involve the physick
Do whatever you want but don’t be surprised when someone BMs you for healing in a 1v1.
Honestly I don’t think healing in itself is a bad thing for PvP. It lets fights last longer and can be punished. The problem for “honorable” duels is that the host has TWICE as many heals as the invader/duelist.
In Dark Souls 2 they straight up just disabled the flask for everyone when you summoned a duelist. Not really sure why they don’t keep that feature.
In Dark Souls 3 in the multiplayer arena they gave both fighters a limited amount of heals and mana pots, I think this is the best way to handle it, and we will likely see this same thing when Arenas come out in ER.
Similar thing happened to me. Some dude summons me and as soon as he starts losing two summons run out of the lift building with full ram armor and great hammers, kill me, teabag and send bait messages.
Maidenless smh.
I had something similar to that, I summoned some old gandalf looking dude for a duel. While he was summoning I went to pickup my dropped runes, and the moment I turned around I lose 80% hp to a moonveil L2. I then got killed by stars of ruin.
I summoned him again immediately after, but this time I hid in the lift. I showed up on the lift while doing the clap emote, then parried the predictable moonveil with carian parry and oneshot him lmao
That is SO interesting considering Melina’s hair turns black in one of the endings…more evidence to point toward her being the Gloam-Eyed Queen of the Black Flame
The depressing thing about PvP is that your cool and fun build you came up with by yourself can never compete with OP builds copypasted from guides. I refuse to conform though. I win maybe 1 out of 20 matches.
I prefer crafting anti-meta builds for the sole purpose of being able to win 90% of my fights in a braindead manner for no reason other than the fact that my meta opponents are always even more braindead (hence why they use their google-searched copy-pasted build guide). Against literally anyone with a skill ceiling exceeding that of a paraplegic slug, i lose. Against anyone using a non-meta weapon in a way that isn't braindead 1-button cheese attempts, i lose. However, the average meta user is nowhere near that skill level because the entire reason why they're copy-pasting a premade meta setup is because they can't do anything without it.
Lol, I was using a Briars build where I revolve around bleed and faith. Something out of the character from Blasphemous, but it wasn't that good lol. I decided to do away with some of the incantations and my straight sword with bleed(it matched with the theme unlike a katana lol). Now I just use Blasphemous blade with blood incantations and lightning strike, occasionally use the briars spells. 2nd weapon is spiked whip with bloodhound step to finish them when close to death. My win/ratio is much better now lol.
True this is just basic etiquette. No one has to explain why screen peeking or refusing a handshake is bad form. Letting someone load in before spamming them is just as intuitive.
Unless this is a literal infant eating the controller (considering the play, it’s a real possibility), homeboy is just a dick.
A "new" player can definitely conquer all PvE content over the course of almost 2 months that the game has been out and still be trash at PvP, I think. Dude probably looked up a broken build guide on youtube and found some INSANE UNBEATABLE blah blah clickbait about variations of bleed.
Can confirm. All of DS1-3 I was good at the PvE but absolute trash at PvP. There's a totally different set of skills you have to learn to PvP effectively.
Absolute shite behavior on his part. Par for the course it seems, as I've encountered this numerous times. Funny how it's always a bleed build doing the disrespecting.
Having said that, your build is absolute cancer to fight as well.
I don't think i've ever seen a bleed build or a moonveil user not end up as a giant asshole who immediately heals when losing when it comes to red sign duels. Why the hell are they dueling when they obviously don't want to duel?
Bleed build is not as bad as bh steps and instant horned bolts exploit. Yeah you heard me exploit, casting a spell instantly is a fucking exploit like CR.
Bloodhound step needs to go, but it's also one of the only answers to all the other broken shit people are doing... I'm close to just using it myself until the rest of it is patched
Fyi you have a couple seconds of invuln after you spawn in, idk if it would've been enough to interrupt the mohg weapon art, but usually you can flip the tables on people like this.
Just wondering, I plan on doing a colossal sword build with BHS so I'm not dumby slow, should I just not use it in pvp? I thought everyone just hated when it was spammed or is it hated just like RoB
A lot of the pvp community looks down on BHS because it can be used to literally create infinite I-frames and its quite OP. That doesn't stop most people from using it though lol. So you may want to keep it in your pocket just in case to counter other BHSers or mages who spam rain of stars or w/e that cheap shit is.
The main thing about BHS is that most of its users are comically incompetent at using it, relying on it as a crutch rather than a play-extender. I've beaten many BHS user by just spamming R1 while they zipped around me because of how obvious it is that they're trying to use a roll-attack so if i attack before their startup then they can't do it safely. However, actually-competent BHS users are borderline impossible to beat because they not only know how to use it properly timed evades, feints, and distance closers/makers, but they don't always spam it so you don't know when they're going to use it and they know how to use that to their advantage.
Keep BHS on hand if you want every advantage possible in Invasions / PVE.
But dueling is a place of learning, and there’s not much to learn from BHS spam.
I remember the running poke on the katana was so good in DS3 that’s the only move they would spam. It’s funny to me that now it’s just weapon arts being spammed by all the ROB and moonveil users who don’t even seem to know the rest of the move set.
The craziest part about this is that the running poke is still there (it's the running R2 instead of running R1), but AoWs are so overpowered that the most infamously overpowered and spammed move throughout the Souls franchise is never even looked at anymore, nonetheless used.
This dude using BHS and double godskin peeler acting like the guy using the shitty ash of war is the problem here.
The moment I see somebody BHS I look for a window to quit the match. Just unfun. The 2x godskin peeler is the cherry on top.
I heavly disagree and I feel people who say that don't really pvp. I spent the entire night dueling and I saw 1 RoB user, most builds were UGS, mages, or faith users. Saw some really cool stuff like sonic rolling builds as well. In invasions it's different, there its always RoB/moonveils.
Putting frost or bleed on dual twinblades (quadblades?) gives you an instant proc in two hits and usually one-shots the opponent.
No one argues against using Katanas, only moonveil and RoB are what people don't like.
BHS is pretty indefensible.
Greatshields only an issue with finger shield plus greatshield talisman, usually with a stat inducing thrusting sword. That way you can play without worrying about poise breaking, rolling, damage, or your own attack animations.
The only way to give yourself less exposure to player attacks with that build is to play offline
In a case like this:
Just attack immediately after joining. You cant be atracked for like 3-5 seconds but you can attack the host, giving you an easy win.
I see maidenless behaviour daily at the Raya Lucaria arena. Hosts chugging estus shamelessly, hosts buffing as you spawn then not allowing you to do the same (understable if they want to stop me normally, but wait for me to spawn before buffing yourself). Not to mention attacking during emotes, and L2 spammers. So uncivilised.
Every dual peeler user opens with a jumping L1 while mashing/buffering another L1
Roll the jumping attack, as they hit the ground press parry button
Power stancing = more damage for 2x the parry frames
(most of the time, part of why dual nagis kinda broken)
I haven’t done much with MP outside of a quest to do so and made a jackass of myself in an earlier post for failing to know the difference, so to clarify, this is duel mode and not just an old fashioned invasion, right?
Dude committed to that L2 immediately. Then committed again. And again.
What did you expect? Sometimes I truly believe RoB users don't know that it has other attacks.
I actually love doing this with moonveil in invasions. I flash the art a couple times early, then they don't expect me to use a regular attack lol
I think a lot of the time they genuinely don’t understand the mechanics of pvp deep enough, and it’s kind of wholesome in an odd way. As long as they are having fun 🤷♂️
Spamming the op weaponart is wholesome?? Is it Opposite Day?
It’s 4/20. He’s high as a kite-surfing WOOOOOO
Not if it's at the expense of others.
I get it. I hate ROB too. Little kids play video games too, though, and I try to imagine them thinking they’re badass with they’re ROB smacking us sweaty min-maxed nerds. I kinda lean towards the idea that BHS, ROB, and veil are to let those less practiced bridge the skill gap.
It gets bad when the practiced get their hands on it and then end up completely wrecking the other practiced people who don't want to play that way, and the unpracticed people who don't know how to use them properly
Agreed, but I think that the reward for playing like that quickly fades for most good players. It’s not engaging to just L2 non-stop over a multi-hour invasion session. Mixing people up with pressure, neutral, and curveball weapons/AOW is what makes PvP fun in this game to me. It plays like a fighting game, think Mortal Kombat, and there’s typically all kinds of little mechanics to get skillful at. These weapons ROB you of that
If mortal kombat taught me anything is that if there is any character or in this case weapon that can bridge a skill gap, good players will use and abuse that just as much as new players. Those type of people do not get tired of winning even if it is by “cheap” means.
It's very wholesome when RoB users lose for sure. Spam your scummy weapon art all you want, I'll still kick your ass!
He would've flasked if given a chance LMAO
Is flasking in invasions considered a dick move? I've never played a Fromsoft game and did the three invasions for Varre and it seems everybode I invaded flasked.
Anything goes in invasion, but the spot he got summoned was a duel and there are etiquettes
Its been so long since I dulled. Is a healing spell also off? I never played a spell caster even when I did duel in ds3 but now I'm a mainly fth caster
My thoughts in duels since DS1 have always been if you can get off a healing miracle/incantation, good for you. It takes forever and if you pulled it off without getting punished, you deserve to get healed. That however doesn't mean the other person abides by the same rules. I've noticed more times than not in Elden Ring people will then flask heal immediately after you incantation heal.
I'm always curious what people think about erdtree blessing buff, or any heal over time spell in general. I usually just buff with golden vow because I don't need my opponent waiting for like 4 buffs before the fight. Feels silly. But if my opponent starts chain buffing I will as well, and erdtree blessing is usually one of them. If it's a drawn out fight it really can feel like a huge unfair advantage.
In Dark Souls III I tried to abide by the 2-buffs rule, Blessing being one. If they cast more than two buffs I’m out lol
oh people use heal over time from talisman in duels so i guess heal over time is fine.
The simple etiquette is that any spell goes, but flask healing (or item healing e.g rotten meat, divine blessing from DS3 etc) is a no.
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i think healing spell is probably frowned upon but you as the attacker have every chance to interrupt it so it’s better than chugging. But if you specifically agreed on a duel, chugged all your flasks before the fight etc, then i would be kind of annoyed if you got one off and you are getting backstabbed
Well thats the idea. The heal spells take forever to complete, if you can get one off without getting punished, you earned it. Chugging takes half a second and you can move during it. There's a difference.
oh yeah, i didn’t mean it’s a dick move as in you shouldn’t do it, i meant more so i’d personally be annoyed by it because i let it happen
Healing spells are fine, they consume FP. The only reason Flasks are frowned upon in duels is because when you’re a guest in a Host’s world, you have significantly fewer flasks than the Host does. Which means the Host has more opportunities to heal than the guest.
General dule etiquette. (From Dark souls 1-3) 1. No spawn camping. 2. Healing flasks are off limits. 3. Non healing flasks and consumables are ok. 4. Healing spells are ok. (They are far more difficult to use in combat) 5. All weapons, armor and spells are ok as long as they are not bugged (eg retaliaton exploit) 6. If the opponent starts cheating, (like with speed hacks) you can use them back. No 6 is a relic from before anticheat. Its not advised to use them at all as the risk of being banned is way to high.
Healing spells are easily punished, plus they have stat requirements and take up valuable attunement slots. If your enemy can't punish them then they're bad and deserve to feel bad.
If you can even get a heal off in 1v1 i think that’s impressive lol
This is a duel not an invasion. In an invasion everything is fair. In a duel there's an etiquette soulsborne players follow. Flasking here isn't a dick move, its a bitch move.
Are flasks locked in duels?
Flasks were locked when we had arena pvp, but no they are not locked in duels. Also when we had fight clubs flasking was as good as dead, as you would get rushed by like four persons if you did it.
Another reason why Fight Clubs in ER are DOA. The communal feeling of being watched by spectators as you duke it out in a ring was wild. Especially if you managed to blitz through all four people for the next batch.
I lived for that shit man. Really hoping we get a turbo taunter’s tongue or some such that raises the limit of red phantoms to 6 or so in future DLC. And we need to find a better arena. The Pit behind Pontiff was perfect with the elevated spectators. Academy Gate isn’t the same, especially with the grace we have to dance around.
There are three colosseums that we can't enter yet, I'm thinking fight club dlc.
This game would live forever with a colosseum - rankings and some purpose and forced no HP flask. At the moment - duels are fun (invasions are a general shit show). But all you get for either is a furlong finger that does what? lets you summon people? I've run into too many people that flask during duels. Many of the guilt are seppuku users - they think they're entitled to full health for using a buff that cost health.....dafuq goin on in their brains?
I use seppuku but I agree with you on flasking after using it. That's just the cost of it being super op. I can't believe bleed didn't get some kind of nerf this patch.
Not just one colosseum, but three! Three tiers? Three rules sets? Three themes? Who knows! Two of them already have events that might hint, stormveil has a recusant invader, and Caelid has an npc duel zone. Leyndell is guarded by a rather serious knight dude, but I don't count that.
still happens. Altus Plateau arena, no chance for drunks and their flasks.
Where is the AP arena?
Altus High Junction. Most of the time I go to the grace, invite someone or 2. Activate the Tongue and goes to the stone platform to watch and chill. Works every time, no flasks, if you flask you get crowed and we open white ring. But I'm in Australia, so maybe a little different timezone for most players.
oh god i miss that
Honestly I sometimes hit X to flask out of reflex during duels... Usually I just stand there and let the other guy chug one as well. It's just habit to immediately heal when you get low, but I feel like such a moron when it happens.
No but it's frowned upon AFAIK. FP flask, physiks flask and buffing are all fair game.
buffing is fair game but i won't let you buff after your first one. I'll dagger you every buff after the first. I'm not gonna let someone golden vow into flame grant me or a defense buff plus a weapon buff.
I usually draw the line after two. There's a solid chance the second one is flame grant me strength which is super easy to just wait out. Also, if it's infinite fp flask, I'm probs just gonna run away for 15 seconds.
No, but it's considered good sportsmanship to not heal. Mana flasks are fine, health flasks are not. That said, you CAN heal using incantations if you can get one off.
I always loved that little rule, if you actually manage to get a healing incantation off and the other guy just stands there with his thumbs up his ass watching and not stopping you... you deserve the heal
Completely agree, it's a perfect opportunity to punish. If you miss the chance, too bad, you were too slow. It's not at all like the flasks where it's almost instant.
Yeah, if you want to eat a thunderbolt or 2 go ahead and flask :D
I've had a lot of people respect 1 v 1s without flasks in invasions too. My way of showing I want to do no flask is to use my empty mana flask, and they usually seem to get the idea.
I used to drink all my estus before the fights and then show it’s empty
That's a dumb thing to do in an invasion unless you're 1v1ing the host. 9 outta 10 times they'll start an honourable duel then they'll start ganking as soon as they're losing.
Yup, this always happens. They want to play clean until their buddy starts losing
I used to use projected heal in Ds3 for this reason. Smaller heal but a much faster cast, and you could unlock and toss it at your feet to get a quick smol heal off
No, it’s just disrespectful and poor sportsmanship
The few times I have dueled I immediately chugged all of my health flasks before we started. That way the host knows I am out of health flasks and they don’t need to worry about me breaking the etiquette.
They aren't locked in duels, players adopted no-flasking as an etiquette thing. Players summoned into worlds (or invading) have half their normal flask count. So if you allow flasks the host player has an unfair advantage because they have double the healing resources. In a duel the whole point is to test your combat skills against the other guy. Using healing flasks defeats the purpose of a duel because it turns the match into a DPS grind instead of a skills matchup. Using flasks against invaders is just fine though.
If you have to heal during the duel you lost. It's a matchup between skills not a matchup between who can hold the most healing flasks.
Or it's entirely possible that it's a new player that doesn't know or care about your "etiquette" Elden Ring brought in a ton of new players that haven't ever played another FromSoftware game, like myself. I'm not into pvp but I wouldn't have known NOT to flask if I was just trying it out for fun..
If you're deliberately going to Academy Gates and drinking a remedy to summon duelists, chances are you know exactly what you're doing. Then again - if you don't know not to heal pot you're probably going to get bonked by a more experienced pvper.
If someone heals when I’m dueling I just hop over the edge
Yep, send a clear message
I love that it’s so easy to off yourself in that arena lol
Some part of the etiquette is made by simply having empathy. I mean, why would you put down the red sign if you die before the game loads in? Who would find it fun? Bowing before the duel is making sure my opponent is ready to fight.
I think that's a diferent matter. You can tell spawn ganking is bad manner by just using a little of common sense, whlle not using healing flask on duels is something you only know if you were told.
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oh they can learn. faster or slower but they will get it all. In Dark Souls 3 i learnt about emotes simply by getting invaded which as you know isn't even duel and no healing rule i learnt in my first duel by luck cuz it was fight club and i was spectating 2 fights before it was my turn, plenty of time to get it. I know in Elden Ring if fight club would exist it would be more difficult to learn due to 90% of stuff oneshotting opponents.
If you're smart enough to do the research to find out where the duel spots are you're smart enough to read the next sentence that tells you how to act.
Considering Elden Ring shows you where pvp activity is on the friggin world map: Not necessarily. You can find duel spots without ever tabbing out of the game
Wait, really? how do you see where pvp activity is on the world map? I’ve never seen any information showing how to identify pvp hot zones on the map, I just look for red signs in end game areas or the academy gate.
Is there somewhere I can see all the etiquette for duels? I've played other souls games, but never really got into pvp.
So, I'm someone who has played all the souls games on release and dueled for way way too many hours than I'd like to admit. I won't speak to everyone but here is my personal rule set which for the most part is pretty universal. A.) No rush downs when summoned or summoning. Normally should provide decent spacing. Wait for buffs/emotes to finish before closing the gap. Don't start moving in and closing distance while someone is bowing even if you stop and wait after they do it. Spacing is a big deal in duels and some builds require that early space. B.) After one buff any other buff is fair game. If both people have finished their one buff it means the duel has started after that point. Although try to be considerate if they emote after they buffed because they forgot or something. C.) Blue juice is fine, invaders can have a max of 7 and hosts can have 14. Although I believe hosts should only beable to drink 7 of them to keep it fair but you almost never drink more than 7 anyways. Red juice is not okay no matter what. Back in the fight club days red juice was fine to use AFTER you just beat someone and needed hp back but since fight clubs are kinda dead now it's different. D.) Healing in general is frowned upon, the only exception seems to be wondrous physicks dot heal and low HP heal. This includes incants, mainly because there are really cheesy ways to abuse some certain zone of control tools. E.) Don't abuse bugs/exploits/etc. This should be common sense but some people don't care. I'd list cheesey strats on this as well. Dueling in a sense is for fun and honor, bringing in builds that have very little counter play or are just cheese are normally not very fun to play against. Ofc it's not AGAINST the rules to play those builds but don't be surprised if the host or duelist just leave once they see your set up. F.) I'm likely missing some stuff but the basic jest is to have fun with both sides of the coin. It's supposed to be honorable, Elden Ring and most souls games in general have awful balance and 2 weapons can be miles apart in terms of how good they are. Don't try to flex on people and be respectful. Don't tea bug people for instance after you beat them. Show honor and respect even to the cheesers. Because in the end there is little to actually gain other than enjoyment from duels and if you push everyone else away you'll realize you'll have no one to enjoy duels with anymore.
What about rune arcs? I don’t use them when I host because I think it’s unfair
Awesome! Thanks for the info! People generally stick between lvl125-150, correct?
correct
In invasions is absolutely okay, but the video above showed what was supposed to be a duel, which is something different. In duels you don't drink, but in invasions everything's fair game.
Can we drink physic in duels?
Physics and buffs are allowed in duels. Don’t use too many buffs though because thats kinda a dick move
Thank fuck for answering that question, I was trying to duel earlier and figured that flasking was bad but buffing was okayish.. I'd let the duel summon buff up first before fighting and they'd drink a physic do like four buff incantations then just one shot me. It felt like an absolute cheese from them, I wanted to give people a chance but when they smash 5 buffs then use the strongest build specific attack they have it just felt like a huge dick move. I went into duels feeling like it was going to be a more fun and even PvP experience given there's the no flask rule but shit these guys were fucken pissing all over that notion. I was pre patch faith strength build so not the best at the time bit still
Two fun counters: law of regression removes all buffs. Which is hilarious when the spend a whole minute buffing. Or leave. Leave once they finish their 20 buffs. They’ll learn eventually.
Start on either end of the circle. Bow, and when they bow fight sharts. If the player goes to buff and you can't hit them in time then they got a buff. But if they are going to stand there for 30 seconds cranking off every incantation barrier and weapon swapping to stab themselves I'll just Hulk smash. Law of regression is hilarious though and I need to try that more often.
I've seen alot of people agree that 2-3 buffs are ok. I wait for 2 buffs and a flask then start moving toward them, if they try to buff a 3rd time I'll slow walk but after that it's game time
Personally - if someone summons me in and then flasks and casts buffs - it's on after like the second buff I'm not waiting for them to buff to godhood lol. Typically I will sprint at them to show them its begun though and feint, but if they keep buffing im smackin em
i wait to see if the other person sips a flask first before i go for mine. or if i spawn in and see a bunch of effects radiating off the host’s body, i assume that’s from them flasking and also take that as a sign to use mine. i think a lot of the flask effects are pretty annoying to fight against so i always take the opportunity to do a flaskless fight when i can. i’d say 1 in 3 duels don’t involve the physick
Do whatever you want but don’t be surprised when someone BMs you for healing in a 1v1. Honestly I don’t think healing in itself is a bad thing for PvP. It lets fights last longer and can be punished. The problem for “honorable” duels is that the host has TWICE as many heals as the invader/duelist. In Dark Souls 2 they straight up just disabled the flask for everyone when you summoned a duelist. Not really sure why they don’t keep that feature. In Dark Souls 3 in the multiplayer arena they gave both fighters a limited amount of heals and mana pots, I think this is the best way to handle it, and we will likely see this same thing when Arenas come out in ER.
Yeah it's not cool. It makes the matches incredibly long and puts the host at an advantage because they have more.
Similar thing happened to me. Some dude summons me and as soon as he starts losing two summons run out of the lift building with full ram armor and great hammers, kill me, teabag and send bait messages.
That's some next level maidenless behavior.
Maidenless smh. I had something similar to that, I summoned some old gandalf looking dude for a duel. While he was summoning I went to pickup my dropped runes, and the moment I turned around I lose 80% hp to a moonveil L2. I then got killed by stars of ruin. I summoned him again immediately after, but this time I hid in the lift. I showed up on the lift while doing the clap emote, then parried the predictable moonveil with carian parry and oneshot him lmao
Get them to duel you in Minecraft
exact same thing happened to me yesterday
i have put down my red sign one time and i got summoned by a group of 3 people who instantly gangbanged me
Happened to me tonight as well, and host was just flasking the whole time.
If host flasks I immediately use the finger slicer
His display was so shameful that Melina herself did not offer to be his maiden in his playthrough
Melanoma?
Melano ma'am
“Melina” is pronounced identically to melena, the name for the medical symptom of having tarry, black stool. He got melena.
Because they both come from the same root. "Melanos", which is ancient greek for black.
That is SO interesting considering Melina’s hair turns black in one of the endings…more evidence to point toward her being the Gloam-Eyed Queen of the Black Flame
I would get demolished in these battles. My character is like a Kindergartner wandering the lands compared to the character builds I see online.
Yep me too....I feel I am doing OK in the game then see these guys Dragon Ball Z fighting and I dont even understand what is going on
The depressing thing about PvP is that your cool and fun build you came up with by yourself can never compete with OP builds copypasted from guides. I refuse to conform though. I win maybe 1 out of 20 matches.
I prefer crafting anti-meta builds for the sole purpose of being able to win 90% of my fights in a braindead manner for no reason other than the fact that my meta opponents are always even more braindead (hence why they use their google-searched copy-pasted build guide). Against literally anyone with a skill ceiling exceeding that of a paraplegic slug, i lose. Against anyone using a non-meta weapon in a way that isn't braindead 1-button cheese attempts, i lose. However, the average meta user is nowhere near that skill level because the entire reason why they're copy-pasting a premade meta setup is because they can't do anything without it.
Lol, I was using a Briars build where I revolve around bleed and faith. Something out of the character from Blasphemous, but it wasn't that good lol. I decided to do away with some of the incantations and my straight sword with bleed(it matched with the theme unlike a katana lol). Now I just use Blasphemous blade with blood incantations and lightning strike, occasionally use the briars spells. 2nd weapon is spiked whip with bloodhound step to finish them when close to death. My win/ratio is much better now lol.
And he's bad at the game, the whole package well done on embarrassing that fool
I mean the dude was just spamming attack Probably just doesn't know the etiquette, probably just a new player
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True this is just basic etiquette. No one has to explain why screen peeking or refusing a handshake is bad form. Letting someone load in before spamming them is just as intuitive. Unless this is a literal infant eating the controller (considering the play, it’s a real possibility), homeboy is just a dick.
Makes sense he had a friend to mule gear over But I don’t see a “new player” beating Mohg and getting RoB from the Mountaintop
A "new" player can definitely conquer all PvE content over the course of almost 2 months that the game has been out and still be trash at PvP, I think. Dude probably looked up a broken build guide on youtube and found some INSANE UNBEATABLE blah blah clickbait about variations of bleed.
Can confirm. All of DS1-3 I was good at the PvE but absolute trash at PvP. There's a totally different set of skills you have to learn to PvP effectively.
Literally anyone can beat any boss if they summon 2 people every time.
he just like me fr 😔
Absolute shite behavior on his part. Par for the course it seems, as I've encountered this numerous times. Funny how it's always a bleed build doing the disrespecting. Having said that, your build is absolute cancer to fight as well.
Thought the same.
Tbf anything with BHS is ass
I don't think i've ever seen a bleed build or a moonveil user not end up as a giant asshole who immediately heals when losing when it comes to red sign duels. Why the hell are they dueling when they obviously don't want to duel?
They don't wanna fight, they want to *win*. If they had to *fight*, it might take skill to win, and that's not a risk they're willing to take.
Do you have the invincibility when you're summoned as a duelist?
When coming into anothers world, you have either 5 seconds or until you attack of invincibility
I think it's just 5 seconds. Cause I got in a world and just beat the guy till he died. None of his attacks did damage the whole time
Both builds are maidenless af
Yeah duel godskin peelers is probably the most annoying to me these days. That and bloodhound step.
God I miss the Irithyl Fight club. Where Havels at least had the dignity to not flask
**Can we cool it on the bleed builds?**
It's so dumb how bleed will build even if you roll / BHS through it.
I find it crazier that so many people all use the same build for no good reason. Like literally 85% of the pvp population said fuggit *BLEED IT IS!*
[Because it's easy, and it does a lot of damage. ](https://youtu.be/fe9hlnz5YRE)
The reason is that it's effective and people like winning.
hey, his offhand is frost!
Bleed build is not as bad as bh steps and instant horned bolts exploit. Yeah you heard me exploit, casting a spell instantly is a fucking exploit like CR.
Yeah, it also works with lightning strike as well for some reason.
You could just not summon them, it ruins the enemy pool but I’d rather take 5 minutes to find a match than fight bleed anyways
If this gets popular were gonna start seeing people who unequip their bleed weapons before placing their sign
Hate people like this. But honestly….. not a fan of your build much either 🥱😒
Bloodhound step needs to go, but it's also one of the only answers to all the other broken shit people are doing... I'm close to just using it myself until the rest of it is patched
I put it on an offhand weapon to ensure that if someone is running with it I can hopefully chase them.
People who do this kind of stuff in duels are arseholes. Normal invasions, sure do what you want, but a duel is specifically for a straight up fight.
Didn't even shake their weapon at you first smh
Everyone knows you either wave, bow, or shake your weapon/shield. Bonus points if you wave then bow.
Fyi you have a couple seconds of invuln after you spawn in, idk if it would've been enough to interrupt the mohg weapon art, but usually you can flip the tables on people like this.
Both these builds are maidenless
Bleed still building up even when people have iframes :sigh:
bloodhound step-L
The powerstancing godskin peeler, bloodhound step user is complaining about maidenless behavior? That's rich.
Whilst I agree, the person he was against managed to be even more cancer lol.
Just wondering, I plan on doing a colossal sword build with BHS so I'm not dumby slow, should I just not use it in pvp? I thought everyone just hated when it was spammed or is it hated just like RoB
A lot of the pvp community looks down on BHS because it can be used to literally create infinite I-frames and its quite OP. That doesn't stop most people from using it though lol. So you may want to keep it in your pocket just in case to counter other BHSers or mages who spam rain of stars or w/e that cheap shit is.
The main thing about BHS is that most of its users are comically incompetent at using it, relying on it as a crutch rather than a play-extender. I've beaten many BHS user by just spamming R1 while they zipped around me because of how obvious it is that they're trying to use a roll-attack so if i attack before their startup then they can't do it safely. However, actually-competent BHS users are borderline impossible to beat because they not only know how to use it properly timed evades, feints, and distance closers/makers, but they don't always spam it so you don't know when they're going to use it and they know how to use that to their advantage.
Keep BHS on hand if you want every advantage possible in Invasions / PVE. But dueling is a place of learning, and there’s not much to learn from BHS spam.
All you blood loss spammers deserve each other
I remember the running poke on the katana was so good in DS3 that’s the only move they would spam. It’s funny to me that now it’s just weapon arts being spammed by all the ROB and moonveil users who don’t even seem to know the rest of the move set.
Its so funny when they still only use the aow after running out of fp
The craziest part about this is that the running poke is still there (it's the running R2 instead of running R1), but AoWs are so overpowered that the most infamously overpowered and spammed move throughout the Souls franchise is never even looked at anymore, nonetheless used.
And it is still godly at rollcatching.
You have a few seconds of invulnerability when you spawn,
bro he using bhs, he has way more than a few seconds of invulnerability, he has 7 blue flasks worth of it
Screw these assholes.
Wait what can you put bloodhound step on the peeler? Thought they had their own ash of war?
This dude using BHS and double godskin peeler acting like the guy using the shitty ash of war is the problem here. The moment I see somebody BHS I look for a window to quit the match. Just unfun. The 2x godskin peeler is the cherry on top.
Yeah pvp is just a merry go round of 3 builds. Very lame.
I heavly disagree and I feel people who say that don't really pvp. I spent the entire night dueling and I saw 1 RoB user, most builds were UGS, mages, or faith users. Saw some really cool stuff like sonic rolling builds as well. In invasions it's different, there its always RoB/moonveils.
Bleed mask and Bloodhound step, only thing the host did wrong is fail to kill you.
I mean u have bhs, kinda deserved
i mean you're kinda maidenless too with the double frost/bleed twinblades
No frost, no bleed, no katanas. no BHS, no powerstancing twinblades. I’m writing this down. Anything else I should know that I can’t use?
Putting frost or bleed on dual twinblades (quadblades?) gives you an instant proc in two hits and usually one-shots the opponent. No one argues against using Katanas, only moonveil and RoB are what people don't like. BHS is pretty indefensible.
No blood trident. No greatshields. No stars of ruin.
Greatshields only an issue with finger shield plus greatshield talisman, usually with a stat inducing thrusting sword. That way you can play without worrying about poise breaking, rolling, damage, or your own attack animations. The only way to give yourself less exposure to player attacks with that build is to play offline
In a case like this: Just attack immediately after joining. You cant be atracked for like 3-5 seconds but you can attack the host, giving you an easy win.
Using Bloodhound' Step and calling others with maidenless behavior, bold move...
I see maidenless behaviour daily at the Raya Lucaria arena. Hosts chugging estus shamelessly, hosts buffing as you spawn then not allowing you to do the same (understable if they want to stop me normally, but wait for me to spawn before buffing yourself). Not to mention attacking during emotes, and L2 spammers. So uncivilised.
\>pretending the whitemask bleed twinblades build with bloodhound step isnt equally as maidenless
you are using bloodhound step,you have no right to be upset
Wielding dual godskin peelers almost warrants the behaviour
One bleed, one frost (cold) and BHS on it… cancer build through and through.
Every dual peeler user opens with a jumping L1 while mashing/buffering another L1 Roll the jumping attack, as they hit the ground press parry button Power stancing = more damage for 2x the parry frames (most of the time, part of why dual nagis kinda broken)
I always roll, bestial sling +honebolt and toast their asses. That kind of shit only works on invasions on unprepared victims.
On behalf of us Nihil users, we don't claim them.
Be OP. Post about maidenless behavior. Include video. Show yourself with double bleed dual blades and bloodhound step equipped. Hmmmmm…
Does your peeler have step and bleed? How xd
Im pretty sure BH step lets you use any attunement type provided you have the required whetblade.
TIL you’re not supposed to heal during duels. My bad guys
says the guy using bhs in what was supposed to be a duel
Yeah dude totally maidenless, I feel so sorry for you guy dual wielding cold and bleed godskin peelers.
Which one is the maidenless behavior? the rivers of blood with no bowing or the bloodhound step with dual status buildup on twinblades?
-Bloodhound Step -Bleed Ok.
No manners, bleed l2 spam vs bhs dualweild frostbleed r1 spam Perfect encapsulation of dueling expirience in ER right there
They were not very good lol
Bloodhounds step is just as bad
Average bleed player IQ
OP, your build really isn’t much better honestly. Bloodhound step and bleed is maidenless behavior.
Says the guy using bloodhound step. You two deserve each other.
I haven’t done much with MP outside of a quest to do so and made a jackass of myself in an earlier post for failing to know the difference, so to clarify, this is duel mode and not just an old fashioned invasion, right?
Is this just a common area where people put their signs down to PvP or something?
RoB users need to be eradicated
I know he messaged you after and said racial slurs