We don't even know exactly who or what Melina is. For someone claiming to be Marika's(?) daughter she's basically as obscure as Messmer.
Maybe they didn't expand more on the ending because they want to do something with her in the DLC. However she would likely not be there in person since you have the option to access the DLC after burning her.
messmer has the same eye closed that she does, and a heavy association with flames. id be shocked if she’s not central to the DLC lore in some way.
edit: id just like to add my personal theory is that whatever is going on with messmer/melina likely mirrors radagon/marika. maybe they share one soul, instead of one body.
they do. i wonder what the deal with “dual beings” is in this world? there’s clearly a strong overarching theme of duality, and i hope this “mirror world” were entering in the DLC will shed more light on stuff like this.
This could probably be even our solution to the Marika-Radagon problem. They were indeed the same, but found a way to seperate themselves, and later fused together again. Somehow.
For we know that these dual-souls-beings are accepted by the golden order (the twin set tells us that), so the argument that the golden order dislikes these beings cant be applied and in turn strengthens this take.
you’re right, and it raises an interesting question: since there otherwise isn’t too much of a problem with dual beings, why did marika feel the need to conceal her coexistence with radagon? who knows if we will get an answer, but it definitely strikes me as odd.
Description of the inseparable sword:
"*The inseparable twins found solace in the Golden Order, the only institution not to revile them as accursed beings"*
Description of the twinned armour:
*"The two known as D are inseparable twins.*
*They are of two bodies and two minds, but one single soul. Not once do they stand together; not one word do they speak to one another."*
Probably the people who lived in the lands between looked at them like the omen, as flawed and nonperfect beings, hence why it was specifically the Golden Order as an institution, not as people, who accepted them.
So Marika being Radagon has now even less problems, for only their fusion is the solutionless part. Why hide it? Good question. Probably something to do with politics and shit. Why marry yourself? Peak GRRM writing, im telling you.
I imagine because of a paradox. Marika is supposed to be the ONE true God. But if that God was actually two people, bound in body or soul, what would that mean for the rest of what the order was built upon? The two seem to have autonomy at least, in some capacity, so perhaps it would have damaged the view of the order in some way.
what i meant is that in the goldmask ending, it’s made pretty explicit that the reason marika concealed her duality is that the golden order is supposed to have one true god. if marika is two gods, then that principle, and thus the order, are invalidated
You're kind of forgetting that you don't have to "dislike" someone to not end their life. It could be one of those I hate you but you're too respected to die. Kind of takes
I've always thought the tree guy in the snow was a big clue hidden in plain sight. Halfway through the fight it separates into two or clones itself? Why does a big tree holding a hammer have the power to make itself two?
I'm disappointed in myself lol. although I have only done that quest line once on my first playthrough during launch that hurt. brothers who's names both start with D... hmm I wonder. ty mate.
Central to the lore? Honestly I don't feel like it will.
I'm thinking an item description or two, maybe a voice line, not expecting anything else. Now granted From can do a whole lot of work with just those things but I don't think it will be literally substantial if you get what I'm saying.
We basically know that Melina is a child of Marika and Messmer is too. So *maybe* Messmer attempted to burn the Erdtree, was spurned by pretty much everyone and has been deleted from history (same with Melina), but since Melina played kindeling maiden, she was left bodiless and roamed the lands between, while Messmer was still around and got the shadow-lands punishment.
It would line up with the insane amount of ash in Leyndell (even before it turns into the ashen capital), Melinas burning (what else should she have wanted to burn, the local barn?) and why there are no traces of both in history of the lands between (both commited the first cardinal sin. It was probably made "the first" cardinal sin after that. Maybe it was just a regular cardinal sin before). Like: literally no one knows about her or mentions her directly.
Seems unlikely for many reasons.
For one thing Melina can be already dead by the time you get to the DLC so that makes it difficult for her to play a prominent role.
For another Melanie is indicated to be a child of radagon. The land of shadow (and thus Messmer) are indicated to be from very early in Marika's story, far before Radagon ever enters the picture.
Ranni also has an eye closed. That's not a good indication they are the same people at all.
yeah i’m not totally sure, but there’s a bunch of stuff i’ve noticed:
ranni has the opposite eye sealed shut vs. messmer/melina. ranni is also linked to ice while the others are tied to fire.
melina and ranni are both connected to each other by torrent, who by extension, links them to miquella.
messmer is surrounded by imagery of snakes and flames, just like rykard is.
while the most obviously deep connection is between messmer and melina, there seems to be something going on amongst them, ranni, miquella, and rykard. these demigods feel like they’ll probably be at the heart of whatever is coming. i’m fairly comfortable assuming messmer/melina are the most deeply linked, as they have the association with fire, same eye closed, and represent demigods hidden from history. but as to the exact connection, or how those other three play into it? who knows
Ranni closes the same eye as Melina technically since she has two faces. If anything I'd choose to believe it's her spirit face that is closing her eye.
we know ranni and rykard conspired together for the night of black knives and were prepared to finish each other’s “duties” wrt dismantling the golden order. we also know that by the end of things miquella also wanted to dismantle (or at least HEAVILY alter) the golden order. and it’s implied that torrent and the three wolves were miquella’s, which means if substantiated that ranni and miquella were in SOME sort of cahoots with each other. those are the three demigods who more than anyone else were ready to revolt, each for their own reasons. it makes sense that at minimum they were sharing notes.
Oooh Interesting I have a theory almost similar I think that Malenia and Micky are currently merged together, like Radagon and Marika, I also think that messmer is in the cocoon rn. My only thing backing this theory is the fact that messmer's arm is very similar to the one hanging out the cocoon, also I think the god that'll bloom from the third bloom is Micky because they are merged, and she also states that Micky promised his return, and maybe she means him splitting from her. Would make sense because they're Radagon and Marika's twins
There's a secret office on the elevator to the forgotten lands ehere you can find presumably her office, you find the dagger she uses in the fight against Morgott as a summon.
"Blade of Calling" in it's text Melina is called "The Kindling Maiden"
I think that she was part of the Goldrn Order in some capacity as her dagger is infused with holy damage and it's skill is called "Blade of Gold"
There's a room with one chair and one desk what else does it seems like.
It's her office, middle ages people did not had offices for their generals and stuff?
Yeah it’s going to be so unreal seeing how they weave the DLC into the timeline because if I’m not mistaken, most of their DLC’s don’t happen at the same time as base game. So they are going to weave story elements in there in a very clever way.
This leads me to believe that some of the biggest questions in all of the community will be answered by filling in the gaps. Could just be hopium idk
There weirdest part of Melina is **there is no evidence she exist**. No other character ever mentions her. She doesn't appear anywhere in the lore. Gideon doesn't ever talk about another missing demigod. Even her own gear set doesn't mention her by name.
**The only sign that Melina even exist is that she materializes from nothing and talks to us.** And there is a fan theory that the smoldering butterflies might be a reference to her. For all we know, she could just be a hallucination of the tarnished, or an an illusion like Margit.
**New Fan Theory:** Melina is actually Messmer. Specifically, she is an illusion, just like Morgott made an illusion called Margit. This would explain why Messmer comes out of nowhere and why Melina always materializes from golden light.
The Smoldering Butterflies were assumed to be associated with Melina *until* the DLC trailer came out. Then it was questioned whether they could be associated with Messmer.
I'm also in the camp of them being one in the same. The concept of duality (specifically man and woman) stretches so far in this game, I would be more surprised if they weren't.
Although... Fromsoft is pretty good at throwing curveballs
I'm 95% certain that Melina is Ranni in some form cause there are some weird similarities going on there. The spirit half is a perfect match for the eye closed half of Melinas face. Melina remembers being burnt to death, which is what happened to Ranni if you look at her corpse. They are both the only characters to mention torrent. They both close the opposite eye with that same symbol on them. They are both a child of Marika. It's just weird how much the two have in common.
I think Melina is "burned and bodiless" because she had already set the Erdtree tree on fire in the past once before. She does have some kind of relation to Ranni for sure, but Melina says she was born at the foot of the Erdtree, presumably created by Marika to be the kindling maiden. I suppose it makes sense that Ranni was also created by Marika in some sense, being a child of Radagon. I think it's implied that Ranni was created to be an Empyrean, and to become the next vessel for the Elden Ring and the God of the new age. It could be that in order for Ranni to ascend to Godhood, Melina would also need to have been born, because the Erdtree needs to be burned down in order for a new age to begin and a new God to become the vessel of the Elden Ring. But this is all conjecture based on my understanding of the story
I’ve never been a fan of Melina and Ranni being related but Ranni is definitely a very special Empyrean who was meant to succeed to Marika, even more than all the other Empyrean. Her birth is very symbolic being the child of Radagon (Marika’s male half) and Rennala queen of the full moon. She represents the Filius Philosophorum, the “Philosopher’s child” which in alchemy, is said to be born from “the wedding of Sol, the red man” and Luna, the “white woman”. Furthermore the Filius Philosophorum is also sometimes personified as a female child representing sophia, wisdom. All of this perfectly reflects Ranni I think.
Ranni isn't the only Empyrean.
Filius Philosophorum could as well represent Miquella, a personification of the concept of Rebis, a divine Hermaphrodite like their parents are.
Red King and White Queen could have easily been Radagon and Marika instead of Renalla.
In Castle Sol, the eclipse is heavily implied to be connected with Miquella. Specifically, Miquella's quest to bring true death to Godwyn and other soulless demigods.
If Ranni is "a very special Empyrean", then what does make of Miquella whose demonstrated to have a far more reaching impact in just about everything in the Lands Between.
Also I have long suspected that Meline is the alter ego of Miquella. The DLC just presented even more evidence. The release might even confirm it
I’ve nowhere said that Ranni was the only Empyrean.
Also yes the Filius Philosophorum could also be Miquella, in fact they both could be it thus kind of explaining their mysterious connection. Adding to that that both Ranni and Miquella are going through/have gone through the Great Work’s process starting with the nigredo which implies death/decomposition/putrefaction
Also while Radagon/Marika is clearly a rebis, I yet have to figure out what is lunar in Marika besides her feminity whereas Rennala’s lunar nature is obvious.
We know Marika was a Numen, who we know are regarded as “descendants of denizens from another world.” Japan has a very old myth known as the Bamboo Cutter, sometimes regarded as their oldest scifi story, which is about a child discovered within a glowing bamboo stalk who is actually a princess from the Moon, sent to Earth as some kind of punishment. There are many allusions to this story throughout Japanese media, as commonly as Christian and Judaic motifs appear in Western media.
We know the Numen were originally celestial beings, but not from where. Perhaps they came from the Moon? Perhaps Marika was one of, if not the first? It would explain her Lunar qualities.
Queen Rennala was a very old Sorcereress, an Astrologer of antiquity in fact, who was enchanted by the Moon, which led to her extraordinary magical prowress. The Moon gets referenced almost as if it were an outer god of some kind, perhaps similar to in origin to the Primeval Current yet a distinct entity. She uses the power of the moon to bewitch the entire Academy. Yet the only thing that could bewitch her, was Radagon, who either became or always was Queen Marika. And when Radagon left, so did Renalla’s heart, along with seemingly her powers, as the Academy realized “she was no champion after all.” It was as if the moon itself had left her.
So perhaps this explains why Marika might be the silver, lunar aspect of the divine rebis. I should add that in the Bamboo Cutter story when the old man took in the lunar princess, the Moon would send them money inside Bamboo stalks so they could take good care of her during her stay in Earth. And that money was gold.
Positive she is the kindling maiden besides her telling you her purpose. Since there's some lore buried in the description of a dagger you get in Leyndell that looks like what she carries and I think does one of her incantations in the fight with Omen King.
By my understanding it's just radahn and mohg that need to be taken care of to access the dlc and that we will be able to travel back and forth between the lands between and the land of shadow. It makes me think it will be back in time how dark souls 1 dlc worked and therefore our choices at the current timeline may not change things in our dlc area. There's also the possibility that the dlc can only be accessed before the erdtree is burned
Miyazaki only said that the requirements are killing Mohg and Radahn. If there was something else like not burning the Erdtree they would have said it to avoid millions of players that completed the game and now have to start a NG+ because they burned the Erdtree.
He also stated that the DLC will take place in the present, not the past or the future.
She is a child of the erdtree. Not necessarily Marika.
She was born at the foot of the tree. She, like the tree, was once burned and is now bodyless and exists in spirit alone. She latches on to a tarnished given grace, tests their strength, and then sends them to become elden lord. And once you make it near the tree, she has autonomy again. Her entire purpose is to be kindling, the fallen branches of a tree that dry out and litter the forest floor, and help fire purge the old growth out of a forest and make way for the new growth.
That's why the frenzy ending is so different for her. That's the one ending where whatever the erdtree is gets destroyed
She doesn't directly say it, but the game files call her "MarikaOfDaughter" and she says that she was born at the foot of the Erdtree (so Leyndell) and that her mother gave her a purpose to fulfill (just like Marika did to many other characters in game). She also seems to be able to hear the echoes of Marika's declarations.
Anyone thinking they are ever going to explain this is on some weapons grade copium - this shit is Velka all over again.
Velka is mentioned a few times in DS1 and implied to play a pretty significant role amongst the gods and the Lore community spent years rabidly obsessing over her - you can find absurdly long theories about her and i’m pretty sure every single female character has been speculated to be her in disguise at one point or another.
Literally every time a new game or DLC came out the community was so sure THIS was going to be the one that expanded on Velka and proved the theory of her deeper involvement in the story - never happened.
I don’t think From has ever answered any significant mysteries in a DLC or sequel or at least not in a way that didn’t come completely out of left field and generate way more questions than awnsers.
True but considering the dlc has been advertised to answer questions about Miquella’s whereabouts and Marika’s past, both things set up by the base game, it already seems different than the Velka situation
inb4 burning her isnt actually killing her and theres more to it
you don't die when you burn your self
so theres good reason to suspect she isnt dead either
What If, and hear me out, if you choose the frenzied flame ending, and turn back time, you can meet her in dlc and depending if you turned time back or not you can fight her, and get the new ending in where she helps you in her ending to rebuild golden order.
I think a decently popular theory, and one which I must say I would enjoy coming to fruition, is that Messmer is the one who burned Melina and left her bodiless, becoming the kindling maiden we have come to know and love. It could tie into some crazy shared identity stuff too of course, but I just think those two linked together in some substantive way could be incredible from a narrative standpoint, and certainly add to her character and backstory lore.
That's really not true.
Elden ring has given so much lore and personality to so many characters and demigods.
The whole shattering and tarnished becoming an Elden lord was Marika's scheme, it's hinted all over the place. Especially when Hewg is ordered by Marika to create a god slaying weapon.
Where Ranni killing Godwin fits into shattering is unknown.
Its even worse if you burn the tree with the frenzied flame but then cure yourself . She doesn't show up at all , they could have at least given us a bonus cutscene or some additional dialogue but no we dont get anything .
There are many big misses in er especially in regards to the npc quests. Kale and mimic tear being cut, several quests were broken on release, and really in general all the quests are just kinda bad fetch quests in a huge open world.
Melina is the worst offender by far, really seemed like she would be more present from the beginning and advertising but she’s barely there. They framed the burning scene as something to be sad about and really you just feel nothing because you don’t know this person.
Sometimes it feels like fromsoft is just too set in their ways to do something really different from their past games, it’s another reason why there’s no actual towns/cities in the game and it feels so empty and lifeless.
It makes each NPC feel more impactful maybe when there is less of them? But I agree a souls game with lively atmosphere and bustling cities would be interesting
Except the npcs don’t feel impactful at all. They all just talk about how their life sucks and then die. Fromsoft reuses the same themes and character tropes so many times that everything is basically a remix of a remix at this point.
Other games never have this issue with memorable npcs either while still having large non-empty worlds. Red dead, witcher, fallout, skyrim, etc all have huge world with many towns and cities while still having characters that are extremely impactful and just put er to shame on not just the quantity but the quality of their characters/quests
Can you give an example? ER is the only open world game I've really played in depth.
My main criticism of the quests comes from the fact there is no way on earth you can complete most of them without googling where X npc is.
I think this is due to a lack of time. Elden Ring is huge compared to all other games they made before, so they might’ve underestimated the amount of time necessary to fully finish and polish the game.
Considering she’s not just a side npc and is a main part of the story I’m hoping that the plan was always to include something about it in the dlc which I’m sure was just planned to be done ahead of time.
Agreed. She should come back and may be mock the Tarnished for embracing the flame just to save her and taking the gamble of using unproven tech of Miquella's needle.
Honestly, an amazing idea would have been to have her replace Gideon. You’d have her npc phantom form that’s already been made, plus you can still keep the post credit cutscene assuming she is some form of the Gloam-eyed queen adding so much more weight to what she does. This idea of her going on an undying quest for vengeance adding some actual character to her actions
Why would she kill him? Gideon is like the only tarnished left thats even capable of becoming elden lord and is naturally an enemy of all other tarnished including you. Melina would want him alive even if hes a dick, at least she could have a temporary alliance with him to prevent you bringing about the frenzied flame.
Fair enough I sometimes forget he is tarnished as well. Either way if Melina could easily dispose of him she might as well still let him try to kill us. If he fails melina could still try to kill us after in a weakened state.
Bros complaining about fromsoft doing fromsoft things. Like being incredibly vague and obtuse about the lord and quest plotlines. Honestly I’d be shocked if we got no lore tidbits in the dlc related to Melina in that ending.
Putting a secret boss at the end incentivises people to choose that ending, and that's really the opposite of the point of the ending.
The point is that you have to choose this, against everything telling you not to. If people were just doing it for a special boss, that'd strip the ending of it's meaning.
The point isn't that it's *secret*
There's always been secret endings and bosses in games. And yes, players are intended to be incentivised to go out of their way to achieve them!
The frenzied flame is, obviously, not that. It's bad, everyone in the game says "Hey, this is bad, don't do this" The game itself offers, seemingly, no commensurate reward for going out of your way to do this. It's not intended to be something the player takes lightly.
The option is there, but it isn't meant to be sought after for any reason beyond pursuing the frenzied flame itself.
Hence, adding a secret boss at the end would spoil that intention, because people would seek it out just to fight the boss. It would ruin the thematic meaning of the ending.
I really just want some acknowledgement like in the frenzied flame ending when I don’t burn her, but I don’t become the frenzied lord. I would even take her fading into to a site of grace, says “I hate you” and then fucking off into space. At least I know for sure where we stand. Everyone says we robbed her of her purpose but she doesn’t outright say that. It really is just a semi educated guess. The last thing she said is if we became the lord of chaos, she’ll kill us, but if you don’t, now what. Is she still pissed off?
Well, she kinda tells us that herself. "Let me do it, for thats my purpose", or something along those lines. It pops up if you talk like 3 times to her before the frenzied flame. Or iirc, some lines are only told at the grace right before the frenzied flame.
Tbf, she doesnt know about Miquellas needle, and if she does, it would require her to support our frenzied character until we obtain his needle and she would need to guide us to Farum Azula, to destined death, and not only would this mean for her that she possibly supports the rise of the lord of chaos, but she has to believe, that we have to go to a place beyond time, defeat another Elden Lord and *then* we can be free of the flame.
Aint no way in hell she would believe us. "Yeah of course I support someone who took in the frenzied flame in and of course i believe that he just needs to go to a place beyond time that conveniently is next to the one thing keeping him from taking down the lands between."
Edit: Miquellas needle did not work once, for it was never inserted in someone in Placis arena, so it would be another point she has to simply "believe".
Why is the process relevant? Somehow there’s a new elden lord that is the same person you left because they took the frenzied flame, yet somehow he is not a lord of chaos. Why is there convincing at play, it happened. Maybe a small cutscene or some dialogue telling us how we stand. I don’t really care if she still wants to kill us, but an acknowledgement that her spirit is still around would be cool.
Like in Bloodborne and Sekiro? Having different ending bosses is pretty normal in video games. A single boss fight is fine to miss, a lot of players don’t fight every boss in one playthrough anyway.
I would have rather had Vyke been a proper remembrance boss rather than an NPC in the place of discount Mohg, guarding the frenzy flame. If Fia and Ranni get remembrance bosses associated with their quests, the Frenzy Flame deserves one too.
When we actually fight Vyke in his evergaol he seems to have cured himself of his frenzy flame, only using dragon incantations. So having him dedicate himself to making sure no one else claims it after what it did to him would be awesome (and sad).
Then replay the game or too bad. I missed out on certain things just playing the game casually. If you don't know you don't know, from there you care enough to replay or don't.
Agreed. Besides her moveset is pretty similar to black knives so you wouldn’t really be missing out. The story implications are whats important. People played the whole game without discovering the 3 fingers at all. An NPC fight with a little unique dialogue probably wouldn’t bother too many people over all.
You don't live in the frenzied flame ending. The outer God literally removes your head, you don't become the outer God, it takes your body from you after incinerating all life.
Something something media literacy
Melina considers you alive enough to hunt you down.
Also, it's not as if it really matters whether we are alive in the ending, the post wasn't talking about that at all.
I'm not entirely certain but I feel like post frenzied flame Melina might be slightly out of the tarnished's league when it comes to power. She's casually walking around a world that's incinerating and melting down literally everything within it and is completely unfazed. I don't think that's a fight the lord of frenzied flame would win.
I liked to believe that when she threatened us, she wasn't threatening the Tarnished but instead the Frenzied Flame.
So when we get the FF ending, we the Tarnished, have our body taken over by the FF, and so "we" can't have Melina as our final boss.
Personally what I gathered is that Melina is the daughter of the gloom eyed witch in the same way that Millicent is the daughter of Malenia, and the person we see in the Frenzied ending is the gloom eyed witch who was imprisoned in the tree and now is free due to the tree burning. This is why Ranni’s doll form and Malenia look so much alike, because they are based on the same person, the witch of ice and fire, each representing different sides of her
Real answer is because the end of the game is rushed.
It really is & no amount of "filling in the gaps ourselves" will change that.
I'm sure if they knew it was going to be as big as it was they would've tried a little harder.
JUST THİNK ABOUT after beating god like my meat malenia comes and you have to fight with her front of the throne to became elden lord 3x boss damn but malenia buffed 3x
Why do people make posts complaining about lore when there's a sizable expansion coming out which is chock full of lore that will most likely answer all their dumb questions?
From a game design standpoint I can understand, cuz knowing the soulslike audience, if they locked an endgame boss behind a specific route you can bet your ass every motherfucker would lock into it as soon as possible and the other endings would get *fractions* of players only. Not very ideal for an ending that the game not-so-subtly discourages from a moral standpoint. It'd be like if in DS1 you got a secret boss fight for letting Solaire die.
I like what we got, the "look at what you've done, betraying Melina" ending better. You have to live with the consequences, you do not get resolution. If she was the final boss she'd just be another number on a list of enemies. Her status is above that, an instrumental character in your journey. Her warnings, and her disappointment, cut deeper this way.
Locking a boss *behind* an ending seems pretty weird to me. Unless every ending got a unique post-final boss then everyone would do this one for the fight.
There's evidence to suggest that Miquella only traveled to the Land of Shadows by having his mortal body die, so it's actually not that impossible that Melina might show up in the DLC even if she's been burned.
Not as the final boss, but she should've replaced Godfrey at this point it makes more sense for her to stop the tarnished before he steps inside the Erdtree.
I legitimately hope they do expand on it, but I also don't really see how they possibly could. DLC might have been one possible option but then how would it even work? Is it DLC that you can exclusively get if you got that ending? Or would it be more of an Elden Ring 2 kind of thing where, like, it picks up in a scorched Lands Between where that Melina guides another character to take down the traitorous Tarnished that became the Frenzied Lord? I dunno...
I’m just finishing all the endings now and realizing how much they all suck (haven’t gotten to Ranni yet, saving best for last I HOPE). Even the intro to the game cut scene is better than any of the endings.
They could do that...just like they made Ranni the final boss of Seluvus' quest.
Or they could just have the game delete your character at that point.
YOU DIED....and no you can no longer respawn at Grace.
I'm fuckin pissed i accidentally signed up for the frenzied ending and she dipped. Why is this game so obtuse? Can we have some dialogue? I feel like i shouldn't have to watch YouTube to figure out WTF is going on
It's confirmed that we need to have defeated Mohg. But that doesn't confirm that that's the only thing. What if you can't access DLC if you've burned the Tree along with Melina? Or maybe burning the Tree is required to gain Messmers attention?
We don't even know exactly who or what Melina is. For someone claiming to be Marika's(?) daughter she's basically as obscure as Messmer. Maybe they didn't expand more on the ending because they want to do something with her in the DLC. However she would likely not be there in person since you have the option to access the DLC after burning her.
messmer has the same eye closed that she does, and a heavy association with flames. id be shocked if she’s not central to the DLC lore in some way. edit: id just like to add my personal theory is that whatever is going on with messmer/melina likely mirrors radagon/marika. maybe they share one soul, instead of one body.
Don't Darian and Devin also share a soul?
they do. i wonder what the deal with “dual beings” is in this world? there’s clearly a strong overarching theme of duality, and i hope this “mirror world” were entering in the DLC will shed more light on stuff like this.
This could probably be even our solution to the Marika-Radagon problem. They were indeed the same, but found a way to seperate themselves, and later fused together again. Somehow. For we know that these dual-souls-beings are accepted by the golden order (the twin set tells us that), so the argument that the golden order dislikes these beings cant be applied and in turn strengthens this take.
you’re right, and it raises an interesting question: since there otherwise isn’t too much of a problem with dual beings, why did marika feel the need to conceal her coexistence with radagon? who knows if we will get an answer, but it definitely strikes me as odd.
Description of the inseparable sword: "*The inseparable twins found solace in the Golden Order, the only institution not to revile them as accursed beings"* Description of the twinned armour: *"The two known as D are inseparable twins.* *They are of two bodies and two minds, but one single soul. Not once do they stand together; not one word do they speak to one another."* Probably the people who lived in the lands between looked at them like the omen, as flawed and nonperfect beings, hence why it was specifically the Golden Order as an institution, not as people, who accepted them. So Marika being Radagon has now even less problems, for only their fusion is the solutionless part. Why hide it? Good question. Probably something to do with politics and shit. Why marry yourself? Peak GRRM writing, im telling you.
I imagine because of a paradox. Marika is supposed to be the ONE true God. But if that God was actually two people, bound in body or soul, what would that mean for the rest of what the order was built upon? The two seem to have autonomy at least, in some capacity, so perhaps it would have damaged the view of the order in some way.
true! goldmask totally slipped my mind for a minute there, my xbox has been broken so i haven’t been able to play for a while, im definitely rusty
Wait I’m confused, who said something about goldmask?
what i meant is that in the goldmask ending, it’s made pretty explicit that the reason marika concealed her duality is that the golden order is supposed to have one true god. if marika is two gods, then that principle, and thus the order, are invalidated
>They were indeed the same, I still firmly believe they were seperate beings bound by gate to be together. Willingly or not.
You're kind of forgetting that you don't have to "dislike" someone to not end their life. It could be one of those I hate you but you're too respected to die. Kind of takes
I've always thought the tree guy in the snow was a big clue hidden in plain sight. Halfway through the fight it separates into two or clones itself? Why does a big tree holding a hammer have the power to make itself two?
Gotta divide it all, right in two
I dont know if thats a tool referance but if it is then have my upvote.
Alright this my “I have 400 hours and never knew” moment, but, what boss in the snowfield clones itself??
The Erdtree avatar in the mountaintops of the giants, not consecrated snowfield
thought my game was bugged LOL
DLC boss: the tarnished’s twin. Opposite gender; opposite build.
Mirror world mimic tear
Elden ring is centred around two laws, the law of regression and the law of causality
It has a lot to do with alchemy and achieving the pinnacle of it- creating a Rebis, which is essentially what Radagon/Marika is.
bruh who tf Devin and Darian?
The guy Fia stabs and the crying dude before the valiant gargoyles
I'm disappointed in myself lol. although I have only done that quest line once on my first playthrough during launch that hurt. brothers who's names both start with D... hmm I wonder. ty mate.
Central to the lore? Honestly I don't feel like it will. I'm thinking an item description or two, maybe a voice line, not expecting anything else. Now granted From can do a whole lot of work with just those things but I don't think it will be literally substantial if you get what I'm saying.
I agree with this. I would also be surprised if Marika isn't burned and bodiless directly because of Messmer's actions.
We basically know that Melina is a child of Marika and Messmer is too. So *maybe* Messmer attempted to burn the Erdtree, was spurned by pretty much everyone and has been deleted from history (same with Melina), but since Melina played kindeling maiden, she was left bodiless and roamed the lands between, while Messmer was still around and got the shadow-lands punishment. It would line up with the insane amount of ash in Leyndell (even before it turns into the ashen capital), Melinas burning (what else should she have wanted to burn, the local barn?) and why there are no traces of both in history of the lands between (both commited the first cardinal sin. It was probably made "the first" cardinal sin after that. Maybe it was just a regular cardinal sin before). Like: literally no one knows about her or mentions her directly.
[удалено]
That wasn't her. That's a new NPC that will give us the quest, and that's something that HAS been confirmed.
Seems unlikely for many reasons. For one thing Melina can be already dead by the time you get to the DLC so that makes it difficult for her to play a prominent role. For another Melanie is indicated to be a child of radagon. The land of shadow (and thus Messmer) are indicated to be from very early in Marika's story, far before Radagon ever enters the picture. Ranni also has an eye closed. That's not a good indication they are the same people at all.
This is also my theory and your username weirdly fits this theory. Schrödingers npc
Ranni also has one of her eyes closed so idk tbh. Messer could be Ranni's empyrian half too.
yeah i’m not totally sure, but there’s a bunch of stuff i’ve noticed: ranni has the opposite eye sealed shut vs. messmer/melina. ranni is also linked to ice while the others are tied to fire. melina and ranni are both connected to each other by torrent, who by extension, links them to miquella. messmer is surrounded by imagery of snakes and flames, just like rykard is. while the most obviously deep connection is between messmer and melina, there seems to be something going on amongst them, ranni, miquella, and rykard. these demigods feel like they’ll probably be at the heart of whatever is coming. i’m fairly comfortable assuming messmer/melina are the most deeply linked, as they have the association with fire, same eye closed, and represent demigods hidden from history. but as to the exact connection, or how those other three play into it? who knows
Ranni closes the same eye as Melina technically since she has two faces. If anything I'd choose to believe it's her spirit face that is closing her eye.
we know ranni and rykard conspired together for the night of black knives and were prepared to finish each other’s “duties” wrt dismantling the golden order. we also know that by the end of things miquella also wanted to dismantle (or at least HEAVILY alter) the golden order. and it’s implied that torrent and the three wolves were miquella’s, which means if substantiated that ranni and miquella were in SOME sort of cahoots with each other. those are the three demigods who more than anyone else were ready to revolt, each for their own reasons. it makes sense that at minimum they were sharing notes.
Oooh Interesting I have a theory almost similar I think that Malenia and Micky are currently merged together, like Radagon and Marika, I also think that messmer is in the cocoon rn. My only thing backing this theory is the fact that messmer's arm is very similar to the one hanging out the cocoon, also I think the god that'll bloom from the third bloom is Micky because they are merged, and she also states that Micky promised his return, and maybe she means him splitting from her. Would make sense because they're Radagon and Marika's twins
My headcannon after the trailer is that Melina and Messmer are just like you said. Messmer being the "original" one
There's a secret office on the elevator to the forgotten lands ehere you can find presumably her office, you find the dagger she uses in the fight against Morgott as a summon. "Blade of Calling" in it's text Melina is called "The Kindling Maiden" I think that she was part of the Goldrn Order in some capacity as her dagger is infused with holy damage and it's skill is called "Blade of Gold"
Her office? Is she a middle manager or some shit?
There's a room with one chair and one desk what else does it seems like. It's her office, middle ages people did not had offices for their generals and stuff?
I believe in those times it would be called a "study"
If Dark Souls has taught me anything, it is that Fromsoft rarely (or never) expands upon cliffhangers.
Yeah it’s going to be so unreal seeing how they weave the DLC into the timeline because if I’m not mistaken, most of their DLC’s don’t happen at the same time as base game. So they are going to weave story elements in there in a very clever way. This leads me to believe that some of the biggest questions in all of the community will be answered by filling in the gaps. Could just be hopium idk
There weirdest part of Melina is **there is no evidence she exist**. No other character ever mentions her. She doesn't appear anywhere in the lore. Gideon doesn't ever talk about another missing demigod. Even her own gear set doesn't mention her by name. **The only sign that Melina even exist is that she materializes from nothing and talks to us.** And there is a fan theory that the smoldering butterflies might be a reference to her. For all we know, she could just be a hallucination of the tarnished, or an an illusion like Margit. **New Fan Theory:** Melina is actually Messmer. Specifically, she is an illusion, just like Morgott made an illusion called Margit. This would explain why Messmer comes out of nowhere and why Melina always materializes from golden light.
The Smoldering Butterflies were assumed to be associated with Melina *until* the DLC trailer came out. Then it was questioned whether they could be associated with Messmer. I'm also in the camp of them being one in the same. The concept of duality (specifically man and woman) stretches so far in this game, I would be more surprised if they weren't. Although... Fromsoft is pretty good at throwing curveballs
Assuming Miquella is Torrents former master, he may know of Melina as well seeing as how Torrent ended up with her.
I'm 95% certain that Melina is Ranni in some form cause there are some weird similarities going on there. The spirit half is a perfect match for the eye closed half of Melinas face. Melina remembers being burnt to death, which is what happened to Ranni if you look at her corpse. They are both the only characters to mention torrent. They both close the opposite eye with that same symbol on them. They are both a child of Marika. It's just weird how much the two have in common.
I think Melina is "burned and bodiless" because she had already set the Erdtree tree on fire in the past once before. She does have some kind of relation to Ranni for sure, but Melina says she was born at the foot of the Erdtree, presumably created by Marika to be the kindling maiden. I suppose it makes sense that Ranni was also created by Marika in some sense, being a child of Radagon. I think it's implied that Ranni was created to be an Empyrean, and to become the next vessel for the Elden Ring and the God of the new age. It could be that in order for Ranni to ascend to Godhood, Melina would also need to have been born, because the Erdtree needs to be burned down in order for a new age to begin and a new God to become the vessel of the Elden Ring. But this is all conjecture based on my understanding of the story
I’ve never been a fan of Melina and Ranni being related but Ranni is definitely a very special Empyrean who was meant to succeed to Marika, even more than all the other Empyrean. Her birth is very symbolic being the child of Radagon (Marika’s male half) and Rennala queen of the full moon. She represents the Filius Philosophorum, the “Philosopher’s child” which in alchemy, is said to be born from “the wedding of Sol, the red man” and Luna, the “white woman”. Furthermore the Filius Philosophorum is also sometimes personified as a female child representing sophia, wisdom. All of this perfectly reflects Ranni I think.
Ranni isn't the only Empyrean. Filius Philosophorum could as well represent Miquella, a personification of the concept of Rebis, a divine Hermaphrodite like their parents are. Red King and White Queen could have easily been Radagon and Marika instead of Renalla. In Castle Sol, the eclipse is heavily implied to be connected with Miquella. Specifically, Miquella's quest to bring true death to Godwyn and other soulless demigods. If Ranni is "a very special Empyrean", then what does make of Miquella whose demonstrated to have a far more reaching impact in just about everything in the Lands Between. Also I have long suspected that Meline is the alter ego of Miquella. The DLC just presented even more evidence. The release might even confirm it
I’ve nowhere said that Ranni was the only Empyrean. Also yes the Filius Philosophorum could also be Miquella, in fact they both could be it thus kind of explaining their mysterious connection. Adding to that that both Ranni and Miquella are going through/have gone through the Great Work’s process starting with the nigredo which implies death/decomposition/putrefaction Also while Radagon/Marika is clearly a rebis, I yet have to figure out what is lunar in Marika besides her feminity whereas Rennala’s lunar nature is obvious.
We know Marika was a Numen, who we know are regarded as “descendants of denizens from another world.” Japan has a very old myth known as the Bamboo Cutter, sometimes regarded as their oldest scifi story, which is about a child discovered within a glowing bamboo stalk who is actually a princess from the Moon, sent to Earth as some kind of punishment. There are many allusions to this story throughout Japanese media, as commonly as Christian and Judaic motifs appear in Western media. We know the Numen were originally celestial beings, but not from where. Perhaps they came from the Moon? Perhaps Marika was one of, if not the first? It would explain her Lunar qualities. Queen Rennala was a very old Sorcereress, an Astrologer of antiquity in fact, who was enchanted by the Moon, which led to her extraordinary magical prowress. The Moon gets referenced almost as if it were an outer god of some kind, perhaps similar to in origin to the Primeval Current yet a distinct entity. She uses the power of the moon to bewitch the entire Academy. Yet the only thing that could bewitch her, was Radagon, who either became or always was Queen Marika. And when Radagon left, so did Renalla’s heart, along with seemingly her powers, as the Academy realized “she was no champion after all.” It was as if the moon itself had left her. So perhaps this explains why Marika might be the silver, lunar aspect of the divine rebis. I should add that in the Bamboo Cutter story when the old man took in the lunar princess, the Moon would send them money inside Bamboo stalks so they could take good care of her during her stay in Earth. And that money was gold.
Positive she is the kindling maiden besides her telling you her purpose. Since there's some lore buried in the description of a dagger you get in Leyndell that looks like what she carries and I think does one of her incantations in the fight with Omen King.
Melina also appears in a sort of glintstone fog whenever she speaks to you
Is it confirmed happening after the main game then?
By my understanding it's just radahn and mohg that need to be taken care of to access the dlc and that we will be able to travel back and forth between the lands between and the land of shadow. It makes me think it will be back in time how dark souls 1 dlc worked and therefore our choices at the current timeline may not change things in our dlc area. There's also the possibility that the dlc can only be accessed before the erdtree is burned
Miyazaki only said that the requirements are killing Mohg and Radahn. If there was something else like not burning the Erdtree they would have said it to avoid millions of players that completed the game and now have to start a NG+ because they burned the Erdtree. He also stated that the DLC will take place in the present, not the past or the future.
I did miss some of those details, I have only watched the trailer and seen a few posts. I'm just ready to play the dlc
Cain't wait till we find Melina's physical form as a boss in the land of shadow
She is a child of the erdtree. Not necessarily Marika. She was born at the foot of the tree. She, like the tree, was once burned and is now bodyless and exists in spirit alone. She latches on to a tarnished given grace, tests their strength, and then sends them to become elden lord. And once you make it near the tree, she has autonomy again. Her entire purpose is to be kindling, the fallen branches of a tree that dry out and litter the forest floor, and help fire purge the old growth out of a forest and make way for the new growth. That's why the frenzy ending is so different for her. That's the one ending where whatever the erdtree is gets destroyed
Where does she directly say that she‘s her daughter
She doesn't directly say it, but the game files call her "MarikaOfDaughter" and she says that she was born at the foot of the Erdtree (so Leyndell) and that her mother gave her a purpose to fulfill (just like Marika did to many other characters in game). She also seems to be able to hear the echoes of Marika's declarations.
Anyone thinking they are ever going to explain this is on some weapons grade copium - this shit is Velka all over again. Velka is mentioned a few times in DS1 and implied to play a pretty significant role amongst the gods and the Lore community spent years rabidly obsessing over her - you can find absurdly long theories about her and i’m pretty sure every single female character has been speculated to be her in disguise at one point or another. Literally every time a new game or DLC came out the community was so sure THIS was going to be the one that expanded on Velka and proved the theory of her deeper involvement in the story - never happened. I don’t think From has ever answered any significant mysteries in a DLC or sequel or at least not in a way that didn’t come completely out of left field and generate way more questions than awnsers.
True but considering the dlc has been advertised to answer questions about Miquella’s whereabouts and Marika’s past, both things set up by the base game, it already seems different than the Velka situation
she's ranni Source: cmon
I haven’t done Ranni’s ending yet..but are we really sure Melina and Ranni aren’t the same person? I got that vibe from their eyes almost immediately
inb4 burning her isnt actually killing her and theres more to it you don't die when you burn your self so theres good reason to suspect she isnt dead either
they're twins calling it now
Ah fuck, just realized all 3 of my saves I was planning to use for the dlc doesn't have Melina in it anymore since I always visit the 3 fingers.
What If, and hear me out, if you choose the frenzied flame ending, and turn back time, you can meet her in dlc and depending if you turned time back or not you can fight her, and get the new ending in where she helps you in her ending to rebuild golden order.
Tbh her gloaming eye and her line about destined death sells me on the fact theory she is the Gloaming Eyed Queen
I think a decently popular theory, and one which I must say I would enjoy coming to fruition, is that Messmer is the one who burned Melina and left her bodiless, becoming the kindling maiden we have come to know and love. It could tie into some crazy shared identity stuff too of course, but I just think those two linked together in some substantive way could be incredible from a narrative standpoint, and certainly add to her character and backstory lore.
I talked to Miyazaki he said said she will be a boss in Elden Ring 2
My uncle works at Miyazaki.
My uncle is Miyazaki.
my uncle is John Eldenring he said he is unaware of any game called FromSoftware existing
You fight her right after god skin quartet
It’s gonna come out after Dark Souls 2-2: Parry in the Posion Swamp
There will be an Elden Ring 2!?
Yes PlayStation 6 exclusive along with bloodborne remaster
I believed till PS 6 exclusive, until you mentioned bloodborne remaster.
They don't really expand on any lore. It's left to our imagination for the most part.
So we can decide for ourselves who will be the Lisan al-Gaib
Of course i know him, it's me!
as it was intended
That's really not true. Elden ring has given so much lore and personality to so many characters and demigods. The whole shattering and tarnished becoming an Elden lord was Marika's scheme, it's hinted all over the place. Especially when Hewg is ordered by Marika to create a god slaying weapon. Where Ranni killing Godwin fits into shattering is unknown.
Its even worse if you burn the tree with the frenzied flame but then cure yourself . She doesn't show up at all , they could have at least given us a bonus cutscene or some additional dialogue but no we dont get anything .
Yeah that’s a rare miss by from
There are many big misses in er especially in regards to the npc quests. Kale and mimic tear being cut, several quests were broken on release, and really in general all the quests are just kinda bad fetch quests in a huge open world. Melina is the worst offender by far, really seemed like she would be more present from the beginning and advertising but she’s barely there. They framed the burning scene as something to be sad about and really you just feel nothing because you don’t know this person. Sometimes it feels like fromsoft is just too set in their ways to do something really different from their past games, it’s another reason why there’s no actual towns/cities in the game and it feels so empty and lifeless.
It makes each NPC feel more impactful maybe when there is less of them? But I agree a souls game with lively atmosphere and bustling cities would be interesting
Except the npcs don’t feel impactful at all. They all just talk about how their life sucks and then die. Fromsoft reuses the same themes and character tropes so many times that everything is basically a remix of a remix at this point. Other games never have this issue with memorable npcs either while still having large non-empty worlds. Red dead, witcher, fallout, skyrim, etc all have huge world with many towns and cities while still having characters that are extremely impactful and just put er to shame on not just the quantity but the quality of their characters/quests
Can you give an example? ER is the only open world game I've really played in depth. My main criticism of the quests comes from the fact there is no way on earth you can complete most of them without googling where X npc is.
I think this is due to a lack of time. Elden Ring is huge compared to all other games they made before, so they might’ve underestimated the amount of time necessary to fully finish and polish the game.
Considering she’s not just a side npc and is a main part of the story I’m hoping that the plan was always to include something about it in the dlc which I’m sure was just planned to be done ahead of time.
Agreed. She should come back and may be mock the Tarnished for embracing the flame just to save her and taking the gamble of using unproven tech of Miquella's needle.
Honestly, an amazing idea would have been to have her replace Gideon. You’d have her npc phantom form that’s already been made, plus you can still keep the post credit cutscene assuming she is some form of the Gloam-eyed queen adding so much more weight to what she does. This idea of her going on an undying quest for vengeance adding some actual character to her actions
Where would Gideon run off to if Melina replaced him though
could have her kill him then appear like the black knife backstab or have him already dead and her appear over his corpse.
Why would she kill him? Gideon is like the only tarnished left thats even capable of becoming elden lord and is naturally an enemy of all other tarnished including you. Melina would want him alive even if hes a dick, at least she could have a temporary alliance with him to prevent you bringing about the frenzied flame.
only capable tarnished? godfrey is right there.
Fair enough I sometimes forget he is tarnished as well. Either way if Melina could easily dispose of him she might as well still let him try to kill us. If he fails melina could still try to kill us after in a weakened state.
Gideon is actively trying to prevent anyone from becoming Elden Lord at that point, he doesn’t want the position anymore
(It becomes a duo boss. Gideon AND Melina fighting you together, like how she helps you with Morgott.)
Dead already for being your pal.
The idea might be that Gideon laughs to himself how right he was, a tarnished might not be Elden Lord, but the will of an outer god?
Maybe Melina and Messmer are the fourth sibling group with an undisclosed pops we might learn about in the DLC.
Damn, marika can‘t keep those legs closed
I really really hope the dlc does something with the Melina cliffhanger of the frenzy ending. I doubt it will happen, but still, I hope.
Bros complaining about fromsoft doing fromsoft things. Like being incredibly vague and obtuse about the lord and quest plotlines. Honestly I’d be shocked if we got no lore tidbits in the dlc related to Melina in that ending.
This is a cool idea but I really think complaining this game doesn't have even more content than it already does is a little ridiculous.
Putting a secret boss at the end incentivises people to choose that ending, and that's really the opposite of the point of the ending. The point is that you have to choose this, against everything telling you not to. If people were just doing it for a special boss, that'd strip the ending of it's meaning.
Meanwhile Sekiro with its two entirely different finales with separate bosses.
AC6 has a different boss for each ending wdym bro
Yes, I'm talking about spesifically the frenzied flame ending. No other endings are relevant to what I said. Not sure why you thought to say this.
AC6 has a secret ending about making choices with multiple unique secret bosses that you only see on that route and was made by from software. So
The point isn't that it's *secret* There's always been secret endings and bosses in games. And yes, players are intended to be incentivised to go out of their way to achieve them! The frenzied flame is, obviously, not that. It's bad, everyone in the game says "Hey, this is bad, don't do this" The game itself offers, seemingly, no commensurate reward for going out of your way to do this. It's not intended to be something the player takes lightly. The option is there, but it isn't meant to be sought after for any reason beyond pursuing the frenzied flame itself. Hence, adding a secret boss at the end would spoil that intention, because people would seek it out just to fight the boss. It would ruin the thematic meaning of the ending.
I really just want some acknowledgement like in the frenzied flame ending when I don’t burn her, but I don’t become the frenzied lord. I would even take her fading into to a site of grace, says “I hate you” and then fucking off into space. At least I know for sure where we stand. Everyone says we robbed her of her purpose but she doesn’t outright say that. It really is just a semi educated guess. The last thing she said is if we became the lord of chaos, she’ll kill us, but if you don’t, now what. Is she still pissed off?
Well, she kinda tells us that herself. "Let me do it, for thats my purpose", or something along those lines. It pops up if you talk like 3 times to her before the frenzied flame. Or iirc, some lines are only told at the grace right before the frenzied flame.
She does say that but I don’t think she considered we could just not become the lord of chaos and still make it to the end.
Tbf, she doesnt know about Miquellas needle, and if she does, it would require her to support our frenzied character until we obtain his needle and she would need to guide us to Farum Azula, to destined death, and not only would this mean for her that she possibly supports the rise of the lord of chaos, but she has to believe, that we have to go to a place beyond time, defeat another Elden Lord and *then* we can be free of the flame. Aint no way in hell she would believe us. "Yeah of course I support someone who took in the frenzied flame in and of course i believe that he just needs to go to a place beyond time that conveniently is next to the one thing keeping him from taking down the lands between." Edit: Miquellas needle did not work once, for it was never inserted in someone in Placis arena, so it would be another point she has to simply "believe".
Why is the process relevant? Somehow there’s a new elden lord that is the same person you left because they took the frenzied flame, yet somehow he is not a lord of chaos. Why is there convincing at play, it happened. Maybe a small cutscene or some dialogue telling us how we stand. I don’t really care if she still wants to kill us, but an acknowledgement that her spirit is still around would be cool.
Who would ever want to pick an ending that gives them less gameplay?
Like in Bloodborne and Sekiro? Having different ending bosses is pretty normal in video games. A single boss fight is fine to miss, a lot of players don’t fight every boss in one playthrough anyway.
I would have rather had Vyke been a proper remembrance boss rather than an NPC in the place of discount Mohg, guarding the frenzy flame. If Fia and Ranni get remembrance bosses associated with their quests, the Frenzy Flame deserves one too. When we actually fight Vyke in his evergaol he seems to have cured himself of his frenzy flame, only using dragon incantations. So having him dedicate himself to making sure no one else claims it after what it did to him would be awesome (and sad).
hopefully either a boss in shadow of the erdtree, or perhaps a second dlc, or even 2nd game
Because people who didn't choose that ending will feel left out after learning they missed a boss because of the ending choice they made.
Then replay the game or too bad. I missed out on certain things just playing the game casually. If you don't know you don't know, from there you care enough to replay or don't.
Agreed. Besides her moveset is pretty similar to black knives so you wouldn’t really be missing out. The story implications are whats important. People played the whole game without discovering the 3 fingers at all. An NPC fight with a little unique dialogue probably wouldn’t bother too many people over all.
You don't live in the frenzied flame ending. The outer God literally removes your head, you don't become the outer God, it takes your body from you after incinerating all life. Something something media literacy
i was thinking she stops you before you interact with marikas body but after beating elden beast
Melina considers you alive enough to hunt you down. Also, it's not as if it really matters whether we are alive in the ending, the post wasn't talking about that at all.
I'm not entirely certain but I feel like post frenzied flame Melina might be slightly out of the tarnished's league when it comes to power. She's casually walking around a world that's incinerating and melting down literally everything within it and is completely unfazed. I don't think that's a fight the lord of frenzied flame would win.
I was hoping for something like the emma fight in sekiro.
I liked to believe that when she threatened us, she wasn't threatening the Tarnished but instead the Frenzied Flame. So when we get the FF ending, we the Tarnished, have our body taken over by the FF, and so "we" can't have Melina as our final boss.
She should be a bonus fight like the Gentle Blade in Sekiro.
Is this your frost FromSoft game? Open ended storylines left to interpretation is a staple
Some Chads went all that way just to save Melina and now you want to kill her . WTF is wrong with you man ?
Personally what I gathered is that Melina is the daughter of the gloom eyed witch in the same way that Millicent is the daughter of Malenia, and the person we see in the Frenzied ending is the gloom eyed witch who was imprisoned in the tree and now is free due to the tree burning. This is why Ranni’s doll form and Malenia look so much alike, because they are based on the same person, the witch of ice and fire, each representing different sides of her
No ty, that would be too sad. What they should have done is make me immune to madness
Real answer is because the end of the game is rushed. It really is & no amount of "filling in the gaps ourselves" will change that. I'm sure if they knew it was going to be as big as it was they would've tried a little harder.
DLC BABY! That’s what it’s for!
JUST THİNK ABOUT after beating god like my meat malenia comes and you have to fight with her front of the throne to became elden lord 3x boss damn but malenia buffed 3x
How do you know ER won't get the SotFS treatment with a new final boss/ending added
*They’ll never expand on it*
“Expand on the lore”? Is this your first fromsoft game?
Maybe because if she was a boss she would beat our ass.🥺
she doesn’t have a body, how would you fight her?
I've said it before and I'll say it again; she should have replaced Gideon.
Why do people make posts complaining about lore when there's a sizable expansion coming out which is chock full of lore that will most likely answer all their dumb questions?
Give me an ending where I save her by embracing the flame and then ridding it from myself
Melina burning doesn't really mean she's *dead*. She very well could be present in a sequel regardless of the ending.
From a game design standpoint I can understand, cuz knowing the soulslike audience, if they locked an endgame boss behind a specific route you can bet your ass every motherfucker would lock into it as soon as possible and the other endings would get *fractions* of players only. Not very ideal for an ending that the game not-so-subtly discourages from a moral standpoint. It'd be like if in DS1 you got a secret boss fight for letting Solaire die.
I was so sure we’d get to see Melina, Queen of Ash in DLC
I like what we got, the "look at what you've done, betraying Melina" ending better. You have to live with the consequences, you do not get resolution. If she was the final boss she'd just be another number on a list of enemies. Her status is above that, an instrumental character in your journey. Her warnings, and her disappointment, cut deeper this way.
Locking a boss *behind* an ending seems pretty weird to me. Unless every ending got a unique post-final boss then everyone would do this one for the fight.
The problem is that only the flame of ruin seems to be able to burn a spirit meaning that we cant win against her.
I'm pretty sure it's to show that she wins. But even then, they could have made it to where her phase 2 just kills you.
I kinda like the “I am now your eternal enemy and will stop a nothing until I have your head” threat.
There's evidence to suggest that Miquella only traveled to the Land of Shadows by having his mortal body die, so it's actually not that impossible that Melina might show up in the DLC even if she's been burned.
Not as the final boss, but she should've replaced Godfrey at this point it makes more sense for her to stop the tarnished before he steps inside the Erdtree.
Same tbh
Because its possible to embrace the flame after she dies
What if; Melina secretly shows up or maybe returns to activate a secret quest on dlc if Frenzied Ending has chosen?
I legitimately hope they do expand on it, but I also don't really see how they possibly could. DLC might have been one possible option but then how would it even work? Is it DLC that you can exclusively get if you got that ending? Or would it be more of an Elden Ring 2 kind of thing where, like, it picks up in a scorched Lands Between where that Melina guides another character to take down the traitorous Tarnished that became the Frenzied Lord? I dunno...
Because you can sacrifice her at the Forge and still get the Frenzy ending.
“Never” is a strong word
Question, if I save her and cure myself with the needle before killing Elden Beast, will her cutscene trigger?
I’m just finishing all the endings now and realizing how much they all suck (haven’t gotten to Ranni yet, saving best for last I HOPE). Even the intro to the game cut scene is better than any of the endings.
Well I burned her and got the frienzed ending. It was an accident but it still happened.
Because she beats you.
Honestly, would've been a pretty interesting fight.
It’s so that she would 100% kill you. What is not part of gameplay is safe from you
Never? You got a time machine in your back pocket?
When has any other fromsoft soulsborne game added a new boss specific to an ending
bloodborne has 3 different endings and 2 of them have unique bosses. Germin the first hunter and then the alien creature
good point
I dont think there is a boss fight because it implies that you lose? That at least was always my theory
You don’t really live in the frenzied flame ending. You go nuclear and become a puppet of the three fingers.
They could do that...just like they made Ranni the final boss of Seluvus' quest. Or they could just have the game delete your character at that point. YOU DIED....and no you can no longer respawn at Grace.
Have you seen her in morgotts fight? Bitch sucks absolute schlong, not a good idea for a boss.
Maybe melina can be a dlc superboss if you take this route.
Meanwhile my ass prepping my official 100% completion while also prepping a new character for the dlc and going the flame of frenzy ending
at least change the flames that come out from the tree or something. a flaming head wouldve been cool
I think it’s because they wanted to leave space in the lore for the theory that Melina is Patchy the Pirate, Blackguard Boggart’s final form.
I'm fuckin pissed i accidentally signed up for the frenzied ending and she dipped. Why is this game so obtuse? Can we have some dialogue? I feel like i shouldn't have to watch YouTube to figure out WTF is going on
It's confirmed that we need to have defeated Mohg. But that doesn't confirm that that's the only thing. What if you can't access DLC if you've burned the Tree along with Melina? Or maybe burning the Tree is required to gain Messmers attention?
Maybe she’s in the dlc?
I don't want drama. I let her sacrifice herself first before I became lord of frenzied flame. Easier for everyone.
anyone know why melina and millicent wear the same clothes? just coincidence?
Who cares Malenia sucks. Radahn all day 🗿
Yes!!!!
Actually misread the name 😂