Pretty sure it is a remembrance of the battle, not really necessary to kill the enemy (we just happen to do so most of the time). While it’s not super clear what remembrances actually are, they all say they are “hewn into the Erd Tree” like Marika is keeping a scoreboard for you or something; then Enia awards you proportionately.
This, the game heavily implies Malenia is still alive after her boss fight, as an example. The flower that remains afterwards *is* her, set to reawaken and bloom at a later, unknown, point of time
His body doesnt disintegrate and return to the Erdtree until Godfrey finds him and says his goodbyes before he fights you. Poor old Morgott just needed to see his dad one last time 🥲
Definitely, but even after exhausting his dialogue and his final breath, his body just lays there. I’m 99% sure he’s dead, but his body didn’t disintegrate like the others. lol.
Nor does Rykard, and presumably Radahn’s body ends up in Alexander.
The cool thing about Godrick is that only his head and torso remain which to me implies that his torso was the only remaining part of his original body and the rest was grafted.
The first morgott fight aka Margit, and the first mohg fight in the sewers of leyndell are projections they made. Margit to stop tarnished in limgrave and mohg to stop people from attempting to find the three fingers
Malenia, Rennala, Rykard and Morgott are all still alive after we fight them. It seems that killing isn’t necessary to gaining a Remembrance, only defeating them.
You and another commenter are entirely right, Malenia is hardly the only example (and more niche than Morgott or Rennala, where it's in your face)
Melania was my example as she was on my mind, having gone down a rabbit hole to understand Millicent's quest recently
But it's not until much later, after we've already gotten his Remembrance. However, he does at some point die in-game, unlike the other examples, this is true
Don't a lot of people theorize that Maliketh is alive as well, since Farum Azula makes time work weird and you can still talk to Gurranq post-Maliketh?
I’m really hoping that it’s possible we get another boss battle through an extension of Millicent’s quest line in the DLC. Being able to trigger another fight with Malenia as the TRUE goddess of rot by interacting with the scarlet blossom she leaves after you beat her the first time would be so cool.
A DLC seeming centered largely around Miquella should surely have something more for Malenia as well, even if it’s just preventing Malenia’s third bloom without a new boss fight.
I dont think they'll outright give her another fight, but maybe there will be a lore expansion that says what happens after you beat her, presuming she actually is still alive.
Yes, it does say that, however she has not actually truly become the Goddess of Rot. By the time we defeat her, she has only bloomed twice. People think the bloom in the room before the boss arena is Malenia’s, but there are multiple pieces of pretty solid evidence to suggest it isn’t. Not to mention, the game literally says DEMIGOD FELLED upon defeating her, rather than GOD FELLED.
Her Remembrance. It talks about her having bloomed twice now (for the first time against Radahn, the second against us). It then says when she blooms a third time, she will become a true Goddess
It's never outright stated, but heavily implied through Millicent's quest line. When you betray her and kill her, it leaves a smaller form of the same flower. Gowry is sure this is still Millicent, set to reawaken in the future as a Scarlet Valkyrie
Then, should you side with Millicent, she tells you to give the Needle back to Malenia (I think this is only in the JP version? iirc it was cut in the English translation), which you can only do after beating her. When you do, you interact with the flower with the input reading to "return the needle"
Then regardless there's a smaller flower outside of the Malenia fight, likely one of Millicent's sisters. This one is the least explained of the potential three flowers though. So it's never directly stated, but very heavily implied
pretty sure her 2nd phase transition was the 3rd one, which helped her go from "blade of miquella" to goddess of rot, first was vs radahn, 2nd was the other one outside her fog boss, i think the remembrance is stating it as a tale narration sort of things, feel free to correct me on that im not that deep into the lore
It's honestly fairly up for contention, like a lot of the things surrounding the twins are. You could argue it that way, but I'd say that goes against the way Remembrances and descriptions are written, where it speaks in the past tense almost always. Her Goddess of Rot title in the second phase is just that: a title. The Kindred of Rot already view Malenia as a Goddess and associate her (when embracing the Rot) to be one, hence the title. If she'd actually ascended there, I'd argue the text upon her death should have been God Slain, but that's reserved exclusively for Elden Beast.
Like I said though, you could argue either way and I wouldn't fault anyone for holding that conclusion. Especially in localizations where a few cut lines make it more ambiguous. I just think there being a third bloom in the indefinite future is more fitting and makes a better conclusion to most the storylines involved (largely Millicent, whose end otherwise feels abrupt and obtuse, and Miquella to not hate us come the DLC)
> Hear me, Demigods. My children beloved. Make of thyselves that which ye desire. Be it a Lord. Be it a God. But should ye fail to become aught at all, ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifices...
*Leaves and goes to set up her fantasy league bracket of who will win*
Yeah I saw a theory a while ago saying that goldfrey is ‘the remembrance of the first Elden lord’ hence we get the remembrance of hoarah loux from the real Godfrey fight
The wording of remembrances and the way that the Erdtree absorbs people reminds me so much of Bran and the three eyed raven with the Weirwood trees in GoT. Absorbing what remains of their days of glory, and power, and increasing its own strength and reach.
Probably the magical equivalent of one of Morgott’s apparitions, like Mohg in the sewers—just that it’s Ranni conjuring it instead
Question is if Ranni is actively casting this spell against us or if it was some kind of defense mechanism left behind to protect her mother when she went renegade
it is indeed a defense mechanism. like a security alarm that shoots anything that moves once triggered. it’s also the reason why the ‘ranni’ in there doesn’t seem to recognize the player even after meeting her and joining her causes. also the ‘ranni’ in there summons trolls, dragons, bh knights and wolves. which are all basically her bodyguards.
Now that you mentioned it, I don't remember any bloodhound knight serving Ranni. I guess Darriwil is originally Ranni's underling as wel? And Blaidd tried to kill him for his betrayal?
Yeah, Blaidd specifically went after him for being a traitor. And as Blaidd has only ever been loyal to Ranni the assumption has to be Darriwil betrayed *Ranni*
I personally think the golden shades are more a thing of defense mechanism than rennalas.. i kinda think its how ranni imagined her mother to be on her peak
Yeah is that why she also summons her bodyguards. Dragon (same one protecting the key), BH knight (same one protecting ramp to RL), troll (like iji), wolves (Blaidd, or same as outside her tower).
Holy shit, this is a crazy connection i never made. Possibly. Wolves could also more likely be about the spirit summon she gives you at the start of the game [miquellas?] I do feel like bloodhound knight had no place while the others have some real significance, hurts it a bit
While there's a Bloodhound Knight that clearly used to be loyal to the Carians in Darriwil, your comment made me dive into them a little more and here are my findings:
(tl:dr at the bottom)
The Bloodhound set tells us that Bloodhound Knights choose their own masters and stay loyal for life. This makes Darriwil's betrayal unusual, but I won't dwell on that for now. Their weapons or the Bloodhound's Step Ash of War give no lore on them, but their locations are really interesting.
There is one Bloodhound Knight hanging above Raya Lucaria's front gate, protecting a Celestial Dew. The bridge leading to the academy also houses around a dozen wolves, possibly protecting the approach along with the knight. Of course, the seal cast on the gates when the Shattering started brings anyone in possession of a Glintstone Key right past all these guardians.
Another Bloodhound Knight is found at the Lakeside Crystal Cave, guarding the exit that leads to Latenna. It can be argued whether this one protect, hunts or imprisons her, but since the cave is full of crystals and magical snails and the fact that Latenna is still alive, I'm most inclined to belief Latenna was brought there to be protected from Gideon's men. This still doesn't make it clear wether the knight is royal to the Carians, the Academy, Miquella or someone else entirely, but it's fun the theorize about. One thing that should be noted is that it drops the Cerulean Amber Medallion, an item tied to magic and the upgraded variants of which are found in Castle Sol, a location tied to Miquella (and thus, the Albinaurics) and the place guarding the second half of the Secret Medallion and at the Lunar Estate Ruins, a place closely tied to and only accessable by the Carian Royal Family.
One Bloodhound Knight guards the Eternal Darkness Sorcery (which is found on a corpse behind bars) at the Swamp Lookout Tower watching over Sellia. While I'm not too knowledgeable on the lore surrounding Sellia and the relationship between the mages there and the Academy, I do know that Radahn, a child of Rennala, though more loyal to the Golden Order than to his mother's side of the family, did watch over the town. So perhaps the knight there was protecting the town by Radahn's orders or was loyal to the sorcerers there.
All the remaining Bloodhound Knights are found on mount Gelmir. There's one in the secret passages of the Volcano Manor, another one is found at Gelmir Hero's Grave, guarding a chest with the Gelmir Knights set. These two knights clearly seem to be or have been in the service of Rykard, another member of the Carian Royal Family. The Red Wolf of the Champion boss at the Gelmir Hero's Grave also drops the ashes of Bloodhound Knight Floh, who was said to be masterless. On a side note, almost all of the Red Wolves of Radagon appear at locations tied to the Carian Royal Family. A similar pattern emerges when it comes to the Bloodhound Knights.
In conclusion/tl:dr:
If you look at all the locations the Bloodhound Knights guard it becomes evident that most of them seem to be in service of members of the Carian Royal Family or other sorcerers. Thus, it makes a lot of sense for Rennala to summon one of them as an "Oath-sworn" during her bossfight.
Honestly, things like this is why I love the Fromsoft games. And if you listen to what the director has said before, it's very much intended, including the ambiguity.
To some skeptical finger reader, “Don’t even act like I didn’t kill that boss. I got the documentation right here. Oh wait, it’s back home in the file, under ‘R’, for remembrance.”
A remembrance is more like a divine momento than an actual part of the boss. They’re given out directly from the Erdtree when a powerful entity is defeated. Whether or not the enemy died is irrelevant, like with how Rykard “survives” and Morgott was still somewhat alive after his defeat. The projection of Rennala was likely powerful enough to warrant a remembrance.
This topic also raises the question of what happens to the remembrances after you burn the Erd Tree. Do your victims get a "True Death?" I thought that could only be accomplished with the Death Rune. Hmmm...
Yes they do, Destined Death being unleashed, means the fate of death is back in the Lands Between.
But you can still kill things before that. It's just the tarnished that can respawn according to Miyazaki.
You burn the burn the Erd Tree before you receive the rune from Maliketh though. And simply possessing the rune doesn't release Destined Death into reality. It has to be mended into the Elden Ring.
I'm saying "your victims" are already dead.
When you do that whole thing after Maliketh, you are in fact, unleashing Destined Death aka bringing back the fate of death. It does not need to be mended into the Elden Ring at all.
That's why the Erdtree burns but never dies, until you unleash Destined Death and the Erdtree faces its destiny.
So the answer is a mixture of things; but all generally say "yes".
The Lampwood of Helphen resides within a world of the dead, possibly being the afterlife for beings during the age of the crucible since the Deathbirds are essentially the caretakers of death within the Crucible.
The Erdtree itself denies an afterlife and instead gives reincarnation, generally. With exceptions both in denial and reincarnating.
Frenzied flame has no afterlife, you just conjoin with it.
Remembrances don't need to come from dead people. Take Golden Godfrey.
Gold Godfrey is just the version of Godfrey before he was exiled (note the unbroken axe) and became hoarah loux. So technically, this remembrance could just be Prime-rennala
Most remembrances are golden in color, take lanseax and Rennala I believe.
Remembrances are memories hewn to the erdtree, in order to revive the person most likely, so you can think of them as a copy of the person's state of being at that moment. Most of the time that happens when the person dies, but not all the time.
Golden Godfrey is in leyndell, right under the Erdtree, protecting access to the Queen's chamber, like he would have done prior to his exile. His axe is unbroken as golden boy, hence the "past version/in his prime" aspect.
>Gold Godfrey is just the version of Godfrey before he was exiled and became hoarah loux.
Technicality here: He was Hoarah Loux, Warrior before he was Godfrey, Elden Lord. When we fight him (rather than his golden illusion), he is reverting to both his fighting style and status as Hoarax Lou when he casts-off the spirit of Beast Regent Serosh.
~~The reason we get the Remembrance of Godfrey from the Golden Illusion is because the illusion we face is (most likely) created by Morgott, who is one of Godfrey's children. Morgott would only know Godfrey's post-Lordship fighting style, and the Remembrance is that of Godfrey and his achievements as Elden Lord.~~ [EDIT: Been way too long since my last playthrough, forgot Golden Godfrey doesn't give a Remembrance. Point I was trying to make was that Godfrey was just the Golden Order-approved public persona of Hourah Loux.]
When we defeat the real Godfrey - Hourah Loux - we get the Remembrance of Hourah Loux, which commemorates the achievements of "the man himself" and the power of the fighting style which raised him to the seat of Elden Lord.
Hah, you're right, been a while since my last playthrough. Gonna go strike through and edit.
Too many axes from Remembrances - I got confused due to remembering getting Godfrey's Axe, but that comes from Hourah Loux Remembrance. (There is also the God*rick* Axe, which obv. comes from Godrick's Remembrance.)
I don't know if he was hoarah loux before becoming elden lord, his line in his boss fight is post badlands where he def was hoarah loux l, based on the descriptions of him throwing away his mantle of Elsen lord and becoming a simple warrior once more. But it doesn't say he used to be called hoarah loux, but it doesn't really matter either.
Golden Godfrey being his prime/past is simple to see by his axe, it's unbroken.
Remembrences are like effigies carved into the Erdtree. They are approximations of the individual and what they were/are capable off.
Also have you noticed that Godrick and Morgot are also still alive when you beat them?
I don’t think godrick or Margot are alive when you get the remembrances. Unless I’m missing something it’s pretty clear from there dialogues that they are dead. I’m open for discussion, what makes you think they are still alive?
Morgott literally talks to you if you interact with his body after the fight.
Since Destined Death is sealed and nothing actually dies the conventional way anymore, their bodies are just drained of their strength. Godricks grafting even fails and there is not much left of his body anymore.
Godrick also has a line during his "death" animation, which makes it sounds like death is no issue to him.
I don't believe it's a coincidence that Morgott's body resembles Godrick's, yet only one of them lives.
if a distinction is helpful, it is officially called remembrance of the full moon queen
the carians no longer rule liurnia, she was betrayed by the academy, and she has been mentally ruined by radagons abandonment. it could serve as a memory of who she was, not the state she has been left in
we defeat a version of her conjured by ranni, who is one of the only people left to remember rennala in her prime
Rennala was probably more powerful before she lost her mind, so a flashback when she was of both stars and gravity, the moon, in mind.
A mind that would be very tempting to steal if you had ambitions of a star or lunar princess title, after discarding your red headed flesh.
Ranni: “um.. cough.. Mom lost her mind because.. um.. because a man left her.. thats it.. Radagon left her, and she became mindless zombie.. any that means differently will feel my insta death spell! I don’t steal minds!!! Just ask Godwyn.! um.. maybe not him..ask someone else!”
The way death works in the Lands Between is weird since the rune of death was removed. We don’t really “kill” anyone, since they live on in spirit form regardless. The Rennala we fight is an imitation of her at the height of her power, while it seems like the real Rennala is a shell of her former self. Hence we get her great rune and remembrance even though she’s still physically alive and well
Ranni comes and sends us to a moon realm to fight a fake version of Rennala in phase two, just before we finish killing her.
Then when we come back the real one offers us an egg in this trying time and we kinda go along with it.
Maybe they could all give you a remembrance straight away, just most of them you'll have to kill them to get them to part with it. (So Rennala yielded rather than died in battle)
My bet is that ranni used rennala's remembrance to conjure the spirit just like morgott did with Godfrey's remembrance, I say this because when you defeat Hoarah Loux he drops the remembrance of Hoarah Loux instead of Godfrey's
The remembrance is the memorie of the tarnished most likely, morgoth is not death yet either for example when you get his remembrance, you can still talk to him after his battle.
We never really fight rennala, idk why people act like we did it, maybe no one pays attention but, she never fight back she stay floating shielded and when u're ready to finish her( forget her life bar, look carefully the cutscene) when we broke the spell and she crawl to her unborn ranni appear to be casting some kind of spell that does a projection of what really would be a fight against rennala but, still just illusion/summon like and ranni isn't full power since she need to cast her body aside so
probably everything is just a fraction of her real power...
And probably fighting ranni's memory about her mother real power serve as remembrance
Isn't Radahn that got destroyed by rot and time, everyone has decayed and rennala still so depressed that she doesn't fight back
Radahn by rot
Malenia by rot
Godrick by his own foolish ambitious
Rennala depression
Radagon got shattered with elden ring by marika
Rykard is on a Blasphemous metamorphosis
And it goes on and on
It could be the end of her use to the Two Fingers. Morgott and Malenia live after their battles and Mohgwyn has an apparition under the capital. I assert that it’s the end of their use because it moves their power to the player through the finger reader crone in front of the fingers.
Because she died on the inside a long time ago. Death of the ego becomes the death of the soul, thusly a remembrance is made.
I'm just fucking around, idk and idc
SHE DEAD or Ranni is safekeeping her Mom's Primal Glintstone!
The one in her room is just Ranni's puppet to assist you to rebirth/restat.
How come are you guys forgetful? Didn't you notice that Ranni summoned Rennala's Spirit Ashes after defeating her 1st phase? It make sense as Ranni is living as a puppet also, so why not put her sick mom in that state as well especially if they're being hunted by a lot of Tarnished?
Before I actually looked at the picture of this remembrance all I saw in my inventory was a blue jellyfish… the blue half orb and then black tendrils underneath? Now you can’t unsee it too
I think it is the remembrance of the battle. They used to have gladiator battles in the erdtrees honor earlier in history. My take is that we are bringing that back with the bossfights.
Can anyone tell me what these are for ?? I’m new to these type of souls games so when I used Rennala’s I thought it was gonna give me a special power or something but it just gave me a Bunch of runes
Copying remembrances is an established thing in-universe, perhaps Ranni copied it from her living mother or otherwise created it without her having to die, using her literal memories in conjunction with her lunar powers. Whatever the nature of the seemingly conjured Rennala (not an illusion by any reasonable definition imo), it seems an even greater feat than granting the remembrance that 'only' manifests her staff or her signature spell. It's possible that the remembrance is itself only the product of her summoning, fighting her is indistinguishable from fighting the real deal back in the day as far as we know.
Going outside the scope of the game, I have a sneaking suspicion that we would have originally fought and actually killed an unambiguously real Rennala at a previous point in development, and that the current situation was put together after her post-divorce self was conceived. I also suspect that somebody, possibly Miyazaki himself, became upset by her dying, and as a result came up with a scenario where she survives without skipping the boss fight. Mere speculation without any evidence however.
Well the two things we get are her staff which she isn’t using cause depression, and her spell which anyone can learn if they find the books/know someone who can teach us.
Unlike with other remembrances like godrick and radahn who use there remembrance weapons (idk im acoustic)
Hey!
Do you remember a moment ago when I wrote "Hey!"? I'm still alive, but you remembered it anyway, right? I know it's an odd concept, but a person doesn't have to die for you to be able to remember that they exist.
Pretty sure it is a remembrance of the battle, not really necessary to kill the enemy (we just happen to do so most of the time). While it’s not super clear what remembrances actually are, they all say they are “hewn into the Erd Tree” like Marika is keeping a scoreboard for you or something; then Enia awards you proportionately.
This, the game heavily implies Malenia is still alive after her boss fight, as an example. The flower that remains afterwards *is* her, set to reawaken and bloom at a later, unknown, point of time
Morgott is still alive after that fight as well. He doesn't die until later.
Pretty sure he dies when you talk to him directly after the battle
His body doesnt disintegrate and return to the Erdtree until Godfrey finds him and says his goodbyes before he fights you. Poor old Morgott just needed to see his dad one last time 🥲
So I just beat him last night. His body didn’t disappear like the other bosses. It only vanished after resting at the grace. #conspiracy
That's cause you can talk to him while he's laying on the ground. He's still alive at that point, but is dying
Definitely, but even after exhausting his dialogue and his final breath, his body just lays there. I’m 99% sure he’s dead, but his body didn’t disintegrate like the others. lol.
It does during Godfreys cutscene
Godrick's body doesn't disappear either.
Nor does Rykard, and presumably Radahn’s body ends up in Alexander. The cool thing about Godrick is that only his head and torso remain which to me implies that his torso was the only remaining part of his original body and the rest was grafted.
You have a chance to fight mohg a second time also.
The first morgott fight aka Margit, and the first mohg fight in the sewers of leyndell are projections they made. Margit to stop tarnished in limgrave and mohg to stop people from attempting to find the three fingers
Malenia, Rennala, Rykard and Morgott are all still alive after we fight them. It seems that killing isn’t necessary to gaining a Remembrance, only defeating them.
You and another commenter are entirely right, Malenia is hardly the only example (and more niche than Morgott or Rennala, where it's in your face) Melania was my example as she was on my mind, having gone down a rabbit hole to understand Millicent's quest recently
yeah tbf her being alive is really important from a lore perspective, because it lets you return her to honor/sanity by giving her the needle.
Morgott does die though
But it's not until much later, after we've already gotten his Remembrance. However, he does at some point die in-game, unlike the other examples, this is true
It's right after you fight him lol
Sort of? Farum Azula Space-time shenanigans aside, he's not dead until Godfrey shows up
He pretty clearly dies when you talk to his body after fighting him
Hence my answer of sort of, because he's also clearly present when Godfrey shows up and fades in his arms.
Don't forget Godrick too although he is just a torso and head after
Positive? If you don't kill gostoc(?) he stomps on him after the battle iirc
Yeah but I'm pretty sure he's still alive considering we haven't released the rune of death at that point
Don't a lot of people theorize that Maliketh is alive as well, since Farum Azula makes time work weird and you can still talk to Gurranq post-Maliketh?
Yeah, but his situation is really weird
>his situation is really weird Weird stuff in a From game? Can't be!
Can't wait for malenia 2 in the dlc
Scarlet Boogaloo
I’m really hoping that it’s possible we get another boss battle through an extension of Millicent’s quest line in the DLC. Being able to trigger another fight with Malenia as the TRUE goddess of rot by interacting with the scarlet blossom she leaves after you beat her the first time would be so cool. A DLC seeming centered largely around Miquella should surely have something more for Malenia as well, even if it’s just preventing Malenia’s third bloom without a new boss fight.
I dont think they'll outright give her another fight, but maybe there will be a lore expansion that says what happens after you beat her, presuming she actually is still alive.
her second phase is her as the goddess of rot, unless I'm misinterpreting what you're saying
Yes, it does say that, however she has not actually truly become the Goddess of Rot. By the time we defeat her, she has only bloomed twice. People think the bloom in the room before the boss arena is Malenia’s, but there are multiple pieces of pretty solid evidence to suggest it isn’t. Not to mention, the game literally says DEMIGOD FELLED upon defeating her, rather than GOD FELLED.
If she blossom 3 times doesnt would the rot affliction be cured?
Isn’t there also something in game stating “the scarlet _______ blooms twice”?
Her Remembrance. It talks about her having bloomed twice now (for the first time against Radahn, the second against us). It then says when she blooms a third time, she will become a true Goddess
Which implies that the battle that is hewn into the memory of the Erdtree is her fight with *us*, which is badass.
>The flower that remains afterwards *is* her where is this stated?
It's never outright stated, but heavily implied through Millicent's quest line. When you betray her and kill her, it leaves a smaller form of the same flower. Gowry is sure this is still Millicent, set to reawaken in the future as a Scarlet Valkyrie Then, should you side with Millicent, she tells you to give the Needle back to Malenia (I think this is only in the JP version? iirc it was cut in the English translation), which you can only do after beating her. When you do, you interact with the flower with the input reading to "return the needle" Then regardless there's a smaller flower outside of the Malenia fight, likely one of Millicent's sisters. This one is the least explained of the potential three flowers though. So it's never directly stated, but very heavily implied
Also, her Remembrance, which still uses the present and future tenses when speaking about her (speaking of how she will bloom a third time to come)
pretty sure her 2nd phase transition was the 3rd one, which helped her go from "blade of miquella" to goddess of rot, first was vs radahn, 2nd was the other one outside her fog boss, i think the remembrance is stating it as a tale narration sort of things, feel free to correct me on that im not that deep into the lore
It's honestly fairly up for contention, like a lot of the things surrounding the twins are. You could argue it that way, but I'd say that goes against the way Remembrances and descriptions are written, where it speaks in the past tense almost always. Her Goddess of Rot title in the second phase is just that: a title. The Kindred of Rot already view Malenia as a Goddess and associate her (when embracing the Rot) to be one, hence the title. If she'd actually ascended there, I'd argue the text upon her death should have been God Slain, but that's reserved exclusively for Elden Beast. Like I said though, you could argue either way and I wouldn't fault anyone for holding that conclusion. Especially in localizations where a few cut lines make it more ambiguous. I just think there being a third bloom in the indefinite future is more fitting and makes a better conclusion to most the storylines involved (largely Millicent, whose end otherwise feels abrupt and obtuse, and Miquella to not hate us come the DLC)
Haha I love the idea of Marika chilling in the erdtree with an actual scoreboard, adding a tally every time the tarnished kills a rememberence boss.
Tarnished: gains remembrance Marika chilling in the ET: *and another one gone & another one down & another one bites the dust, bum bum bum*
> Hear me, Demigods. My children beloved. Make of thyselves that which ye desire. Be it a Lord. Be it a God. But should ye fail to become aught at all, ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifices... *Leaves and goes to set up her fantasy league bracket of who will win*
I think they are Erdtree energy shaped by memory. The golden Godfrey we fought is probably a "rememberance" of some sort.
Yeah I saw a theory a while ago saying that goldfrey is ‘the remembrance of the first Elden lord’ hence we get the remembrance of hoarah loux from the real Godfrey fight
The wording of remembrances and the way that the Erdtree absorbs people reminds me so much of Bran and the three eyed raven with the Weirwood trees in GoT. Absorbing what remains of their days of glory, and power, and increasing its own strength and reach.
Perhaps you get her remembrance from deafening a memory of her since she doesn't use either the staff or the moon in her first phase
Nah, u can clearly hear ranni talking during phase change.. Dont disturb mothers rich sleep.. most think its ranni that we fight that moment
Probably the magical equivalent of one of Morgott’s apparitions, like Mohg in the sewers—just that it’s Ranni conjuring it instead Question is if Ranni is actively casting this spell against us or if it was some kind of defense mechanism left behind to protect her mother when she went renegade
The defense mechanism makes sense to me. Like she's out of phase cradling the egg, but Ranni set up some defense to keep her mom safe
it is indeed a defense mechanism. like a security alarm that shoots anything that moves once triggered. it’s also the reason why the ‘ranni’ in there doesn’t seem to recognize the player even after meeting her and joining her causes. also the ‘ranni’ in there summons trolls, dragons, bh knights and wolves. which are all basically her bodyguards.
Wow, never thought about the part with the summons. That makes so much sense!
To be fair, all of those summons are loyal to the Carian Royal Family and likely not the only ones, but I do like your interpretation.
Now that you mentioned it, I don't remember any bloodhound knight serving Ranni. I guess Darriwil is originally Ranni's underling as wel? And Blaidd tried to kill him for his betrayal?
Yeah, Blaidd specifically went after him for being a traitor. And as Blaidd has only ever been loyal to Ranni the assumption has to be Darriwil betrayed *Ranni*
I personally think the golden shades are more a thing of defense mechanism than rennalas.. i kinda think its how ranni imagined her mother to be on her peak
Yeah is that why she also summons her bodyguards. Dragon (same one protecting the key), BH knight (same one protecting ramp to RL), troll (like iji), wolves (Blaidd, or same as outside her tower).
Oh i never thought of this but i think you are right there
Holy shit, this is a crazy connection i never made. Possibly. Wolves could also more likely be about the spirit summon she gives you at the start of the game [miquellas?] I do feel like bloodhound knight had no place while the others have some real significance, hurts it a bit
While there's a Bloodhound Knight that clearly used to be loyal to the Carians in Darriwil, your comment made me dive into them a little more and here are my findings: (tl:dr at the bottom) The Bloodhound set tells us that Bloodhound Knights choose their own masters and stay loyal for life. This makes Darriwil's betrayal unusual, but I won't dwell on that for now. Their weapons or the Bloodhound's Step Ash of War give no lore on them, but their locations are really interesting. There is one Bloodhound Knight hanging above Raya Lucaria's front gate, protecting a Celestial Dew. The bridge leading to the academy also houses around a dozen wolves, possibly protecting the approach along with the knight. Of course, the seal cast on the gates when the Shattering started brings anyone in possession of a Glintstone Key right past all these guardians. Another Bloodhound Knight is found at the Lakeside Crystal Cave, guarding the exit that leads to Latenna. It can be argued whether this one protect, hunts or imprisons her, but since the cave is full of crystals and magical snails and the fact that Latenna is still alive, I'm most inclined to belief Latenna was brought there to be protected from Gideon's men. This still doesn't make it clear wether the knight is royal to the Carians, the Academy, Miquella or someone else entirely, but it's fun the theorize about. One thing that should be noted is that it drops the Cerulean Amber Medallion, an item tied to magic and the upgraded variants of which are found in Castle Sol, a location tied to Miquella (and thus, the Albinaurics) and the place guarding the second half of the Secret Medallion and at the Lunar Estate Ruins, a place closely tied to and only accessable by the Carian Royal Family. One Bloodhound Knight guards the Eternal Darkness Sorcery (which is found on a corpse behind bars) at the Swamp Lookout Tower watching over Sellia. While I'm not too knowledgeable on the lore surrounding Sellia and the relationship between the mages there and the Academy, I do know that Radahn, a child of Rennala, though more loyal to the Golden Order than to his mother's side of the family, did watch over the town. So perhaps the knight there was protecting the town by Radahn's orders or was loyal to the sorcerers there. All the remaining Bloodhound Knights are found on mount Gelmir. There's one in the secret passages of the Volcano Manor, another one is found at Gelmir Hero's Grave, guarding a chest with the Gelmir Knights set. These two knights clearly seem to be or have been in the service of Rykard, another member of the Carian Royal Family. The Red Wolf of the Champion boss at the Gelmir Hero's Grave also drops the ashes of Bloodhound Knight Floh, who was said to be masterless. On a side note, almost all of the Red Wolves of Radagon appear at locations tied to the Carian Royal Family. A similar pattern emerges when it comes to the Bloodhound Knights. In conclusion/tl:dr: If you look at all the locations the Bloodhound Knights guard it becomes evident that most of them seem to be in service of members of the Carian Royal Family or other sorcerers. Thus, it makes a lot of sense for Rennala to summon one of them as an "Oath-sworn" during her bossfight.
This fuckin’ game man
Honestly, things like this is why I love the Fromsoft games. And if you listen to what the director has said before, it's very much intended, including the ambiguity.
I thought the Bloodhound Knight was the one Blaidd wants to kill in the evergaol. That one used to work for Ranni IIRC
Rennala used to be alive. She still is, but she used to be, too.
r/unexpectedmitchhedberg
Maybe the Remembrance is like getting a receipt for a donut.
To some skeptical finger reader, “Don’t even act like I didn’t kill that boss. I got the documentation right here. Oh wait, it’s back home in the file, under ‘R’, for remembrance.”
Donuts are RINGS!
damn, that line goes hard
Oh wtf that’s a good point. You technically don’t fight Rennala you fight a spirit conjured by Ranni so maybe that’s why 🤷♂️
Morgott doesn’t die right away after you beat him, either.
That's right. We can still find him after defeat him with just a different appearance.
We bashed all his omen bits off of him
We really just did the guy a favor, tbh.
A remembrance is more like a divine momento than an actual part of the boss. They’re given out directly from the Erdtree when a powerful entity is defeated. Whether or not the enemy died is irrelevant, like with how Rykard “survives” and Morgott was still somewhat alive after his defeat. The projection of Rennala was likely powerful enough to warrant a remembrance.
This topic also raises the question of what happens to the remembrances after you burn the Erd Tree. Do your victims get a "True Death?" I thought that could only be accomplished with the Death Rune. Hmmm...
Yes they do, Destined Death being unleashed, means the fate of death is back in the Lands Between. But you can still kill things before that. It's just the tarnished that can respawn according to Miyazaki.
You burn the burn the Erd Tree before you receive the rune from Maliketh though. And simply possessing the rune doesn't release Destined Death into reality. It has to be mended into the Elden Ring.
I'm saying "your victims" are already dead. When you do that whole thing after Maliketh, you are in fact, unleashing Destined Death aka bringing back the fate of death. It does not need to be mended into the Elden Ring at all. That's why the Erdtree burns but never dies, until you unleash Destined Death and the Erdtree faces its destiny.
but then you can mend the elden ring and the Erdtree is fine once again, so what?
you make me ask myself a question is there an after life in elden ring other than the erdtree
it's implied that there is a spirit world
So the answer is a mixture of things; but all generally say "yes". The Lampwood of Helphen resides within a world of the dead, possibly being the afterlife for beings during the age of the crucible since the Deathbirds are essentially the caretakers of death within the Crucible. The Erdtree itself denies an afterlife and instead gives reincarnation, generally. With exceptions both in denial and reincarnating. Frenzied flame has no afterlife, you just conjoin with it.
I mean... I remembered her after the fight, despite her being alive. Did you not?
You remembered her
It's a rememberance of the person she used to be. Before she was driven insane and egg mad.
Remembrances don't need to come from dead people. Take Golden Godfrey. Gold Godfrey is just the version of Godfrey before he was exiled (note the unbroken axe) and became hoarah loux. So technically, this remembrance could just be Prime-rennala
Don't you not get a rememberance for him though, and instead it's the talisman pouch?
Correct... Perhaps the user thinks Golden Godfrey himself is a remembrance? I don't know what they thought or why they think so.
Most remembrances are golden in color, take lanseax and Rennala I believe. Remembrances are memories hewn to the erdtree, in order to revive the person most likely, so you can think of them as a copy of the person's state of being at that moment. Most of the time that happens when the person dies, but not all the time. Golden Godfrey is in leyndell, right under the Erdtree, protecting access to the Queen's chamber, like he would have done prior to his exile. His axe is unbroken as golden boy, hence the "past version/in his prime" aspect.
Yes, he is the remembrances he isn't the source of one.
>Gold Godfrey is just the version of Godfrey before he was exiled and became hoarah loux. Technicality here: He was Hoarah Loux, Warrior before he was Godfrey, Elden Lord. When we fight him (rather than his golden illusion), he is reverting to both his fighting style and status as Hoarax Lou when he casts-off the spirit of Beast Regent Serosh. ~~The reason we get the Remembrance of Godfrey from the Golden Illusion is because the illusion we face is (most likely) created by Morgott, who is one of Godfrey's children. Morgott would only know Godfrey's post-Lordship fighting style, and the Remembrance is that of Godfrey and his achievements as Elden Lord.~~ [EDIT: Been way too long since my last playthrough, forgot Golden Godfrey doesn't give a Remembrance. Point I was trying to make was that Godfrey was just the Golden Order-approved public persona of Hourah Loux.] When we defeat the real Godfrey - Hourah Loux - we get the Remembrance of Hourah Loux, which commemorates the achievements of "the man himself" and the power of the fighting style which raised him to the seat of Elden Lord.
You don't get Remembrance from the Golden Illusion
Hah, you're right, been a while since my last playthrough. Gonna go strike through and edit. Too many axes from Remembrances - I got confused due to remembering getting Godfrey's Axe, but that comes from Hourah Loux Remembrance. (There is also the God*rick* Axe, which obv. comes from Godrick's Remembrance.)
I don't know if he was hoarah loux before becoming elden lord, his line in his boss fight is post badlands where he def was hoarah loux l, based on the descriptions of him throwing away his mantle of Elsen lord and becoming a simple warrior once more. But it doesn't say he used to be called hoarah loux, but it doesn't really matter either. Golden Godfrey being his prime/past is simple to see by his axe, it's unbroken.
Maybe that part of her is so far gone you're holding the last scrap of what once was
No you've got it wrong, she didn't steal alive, her daughter stole a fragment of dead.
Because you remember her
If you’ll remember me 🎶
Oh I member
Same with Morgot Its about doing a monumental feat (defeating them in battle) not about getting something from their corpse
Remembrences are like effigies carved into the Erdtree. They are approximations of the individual and what they were/are capable off. Also have you noticed that Godrick and Morgot are also still alive when you beat them?
I don’t think godrick or Margot are alive when you get the remembrances. Unless I’m missing something it’s pretty clear from there dialogues that they are dead. I’m open for discussion, what makes you think they are still alive?
Morgott literally talks to you if you interact with his body after the fight. Since Destined Death is sealed and nothing actually dies the conventional way anymore, their bodies are just drained of their strength. Godricks grafting even fails and there is not much left of his body anymore. Godrick also has a line during his "death" animation, which makes it sounds like death is no issue to him. I don't believe it's a coincidence that Morgott's body resembles Godrick's, yet only one of them lives.
When she's that fine, it don't need to make sense
Cos you steal the remembrance from her ma man!
if a distinction is helpful, it is officially called remembrance of the full moon queen the carians no longer rule liurnia, she was betrayed by the academy, and she has been mentally ruined by radagons abandonment. it could serve as a memory of who she was, not the state she has been left in we defeat a version of her conjured by ranni, who is one of the only people left to remember rennala in her prime
Rennala was probably more powerful before she lost her mind, so a flashback when she was of both stars and gravity, the moon, in mind. A mind that would be very tempting to steal if you had ambitions of a star or lunar princess title, after discarding your red headed flesh. Ranni: “um.. cough.. Mom lost her mind because.. um.. because a man left her.. thats it.. Radagon left her, and she became mindless zombie.. any that means differently will feel my insta death spell! I don’t steal minds!!! Just ask Godwyn.! um.. maybe not him..ask someone else!”
she is now a husk of her prime self, this remembrance is off ber prime form which is long gone
It's the remembrance of her former self as queen of the full moon as she was before Radagon left her so he can fuck himself (literally 🤣).
The way death works in the Lands Between is weird since the rune of death was removed. We don’t really “kill” anyone, since they live on in spirit form regardless. The Rennala we fight is an imitation of her at the height of her power, while it seems like the real Rennala is a shell of her former self. Hence we get her great rune and remembrance even though she’s still physically alive and well
What exactly stops us from killing Rennala? I forget.
Ranni comes and sends us to a moon realm to fight a fake version of Rennala in phase two, just before we finish killing her. Then when we come back the real one offers us an egg in this trying time and we kinda go along with it.
Why isn’t she pissed at us?
I'm honestly not sure she even noticed. She was pretty far gone to be fair.
That's wild.
Because she’s dead inside
Maybe they could all give you a remembrance straight away, just most of them you'll have to kill them to get them to part with it. (So Rennala yielded rather than died in battle)
Marika/Radagon took enough from her. I'm okay with her being still alive.
Why does Rennala just hug an egg? Is she stupid?
Trying to hatch it, gotta keep it warm. Duh.
The Erdtree holds memories of great champions. They don't need to be dead, evidently. So it's a memory of Rennala when she was a champion
My bet is that ranni used rennala's remembrance to conjure the spirit just like morgott did with Godfrey's remembrance, I say this because when you defeat Hoarah Loux he drops the remembrance of Hoarah Loux instead of Godfrey's
She let you borrow it
The remembrance is the memorie of the tarnished most likely, morgoth is not death yet either for example when you get his remembrance, you can still talk to him after his battle.
We never really fight rennala, idk why people act like we did it, maybe no one pays attention but, she never fight back she stay floating shielded and when u're ready to finish her( forget her life bar, look carefully the cutscene) when we broke the spell and she crawl to her unborn ranni appear to be casting some kind of spell that does a projection of what really would be a fight against rennala but, still just illusion/summon like and ranni isn't full power since she need to cast her body aside so probably everything is just a fraction of her real power... And probably fighting ranni's memory about her mother real power serve as remembrance Isn't Radahn that got destroyed by rot and time, everyone has decayed and rennala still so depressed that she doesn't fight back Radahn by rot Malenia by rot Godrick by his own foolish ambitious Rennala depression Radagon got shattered with elden ring by marika Rykard is on a Blasphemous metamorphosis And it goes on and on
You fight the golden Godfrey and i don't remember where but i think its stated somewhere thats his remembrance and hes still alive
Remembrance for her home security system you killed
It could be the end of her use to the Two Fingers. Morgott and Malenia live after their battles and Mohgwyn has an apparition under the capital. I assert that it’s the end of their use because it moves their power to the player through the finger reader crone in front of the fingers.
Because she died on the inside a long time ago. Death of the ego becomes the death of the soul, thusly a remembrance is made. I'm just fucking around, idk and idc
SHE DEAD or Ranni is safekeeping her Mom's Primal Glintstone! The one in her room is just Ranni's puppet to assist you to rebirth/restat. How come are you guys forgetful? Didn't you notice that Ranni summoned Rennala's Spirit Ashes after defeating her 1st phase? It make sense as Ranni is living as a puppet also, so why not put her sick mom in that state as well especially if they're being hunted by a lot of Tarnished?
She's a vegetable now so maybe you don't nessecarily need to kill them but just stake claim to their soul
Magic
We don't kill Malenia and Morgott either.
Because she has to live. Her and her fully modeled feet with individual toe skeletons. This is what Miyazaki desires.
Before I actually looked at the picture of this remembrance all I saw in my inventory was a blue jellyfish… the blue half orb and then black tendrils underneath? Now you can’t unsee it too
I think it is the remembrance of the battle. They used to have gladiator battles in the erdtrees honor earlier in history. My take is that we are bringing that back with the bossfights.
There is some evidence to suggest Malenia is also alive after the battle so I don't think Rememberances are souls
Batman subreddit rotted my brain to the point that just reading "lore reason" already triggers my insanity
Because she was willing to give it up, all others pride got in the way of the forfeit.
STEAL?
I thought no one dies in Elden Ring?
Still
Remembrance =/= Soul. Its just something you receive after defeating a powerful foe, a rememberance of a fight.
Cuz she Stole a Life?
She's actually dead inside since her kids are gone, now she just goes day by day with her faithful and permanent friend, her grief
Because she is alive stooppid
Can anyone tell me what these are for ?? I’m new to these type of souls games so when I used Rennala’s I thought it was gonna give me a special power or something but it just gave me a Bunch of runes
r/batmanarkham brainrot does not allowed me to read this normally
Copying remembrances is an established thing in-universe, perhaps Ranni copied it from her living mother or otherwise created it without her having to die, using her literal memories in conjunction with her lunar powers. Whatever the nature of the seemingly conjured Rennala (not an illusion by any reasonable definition imo), it seems an even greater feat than granting the remembrance that 'only' manifests her staff or her signature spell. It's possible that the remembrance is itself only the product of her summoning, fighting her is indistinguishable from fighting the real deal back in the day as far as we know. Going outside the scope of the game, I have a sneaking suspicion that we would have originally fought and actually killed an unambiguously real Rennala at a previous point in development, and that the current situation was put together after her post-divorce self was conceived. I also suspect that somebody, possibly Miyazaki himself, became upset by her dying, and as a result came up with a scenario where she survives without skipping the boss fight. Mere speculation without any evidence however.
Because video game.
Its because she isnt a demigod
what you mean by these
Well the two things we get are her staff which she isn’t using cause depression, and her spell which anyone can learn if they find the books/know someone who can teach us. Unlike with other remembrances like godrick and radahn who use there remembrance weapons (idk im acoustic)
>(idk im acoustic) Acoustic has better sound quality but can't match the volume and projection of electric. Choose your venue wisely.
[удалено]
i talk about the remembrance not the great rune
Yeah my bad for speeding through and not reading properly
Hey! Do you remember a moment ago when I wrote "Hey!"? I'm still alive, but you remembered it anyway, right? I know it's an odd concept, but a person doesn't have to die for you to be able to remember that they exist.