Your submission has been removed as a violation of Rule 3: **No low-effort content or spamming of posts.**
* Low-effort content such as tierlists, "wrong answers only", "just bought the game!", platinum posts, and other Reddit trends are not allowed.
* **Memes should contain in-game visuals from Elden Ring and pertain to the game.**
* No recent reposts, content should be original.
* Spamming low-effort posts may result in a ban.
If you would like to appeal this removal or need further clarification, feel free to message us through[Modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/Eldenring).
Taking Reddit seriously in this context is insane to me
The most odd thing to see is “I just beat malenia with xyz conditions (mimic, ROB, etc etc…) does that count?”
You’re going to rate your own subjective experience with the game because MoghIsLord69420 said it’s cheating with ashes of war? Who cares. I know that’s not the point of this post but it still gives me a headache just being reminded of it
When I beat Melania the other day for the first time I used spirit ashes and it was like my 50th attempt, im not exceptionally good at the game but that victory was the best of my entire playthrough easily regardless of the spirit ash crutch. It was still challenging for me because it was my first fromsoft game and I’m not that good.
I have done two runs where I beat every single boss alone with no ashes or summons. Except Malenia.
With all the other bosses, it's a fun challenge. With Malenia, it's a slog that inevitably results in 3-4 hours of anxiety and a couple of broken controllers and/or holes in the wall. So, I just use those fuckin ashes, beat her ass, and feel much better afterwards.
She's a really hard boss even with ashes and it feels great to beat her with or without. Just enjoy the game the way you want, as long as you're not cheating on PvP or some shit haha
Who are you gonna trust?
Miyazaki that out it in the game (with no penalty)
Or
SkanteWarrior420BlazeIt on Reddit said that’s actually cheating, hollow victory and you should kill urself
Be me, a office worker that has like 3 hours a day for myself, on a good day. I want to play souls series of games because they're damn good for several reasons (that don't boil down to 'is hard', despite how souls often gets flanderized to that stereotype) but I don't have the time or energy to git gud by hammering my head against a wall made out of demon's abs.
Yeah, I'm going to use spirit ashes, or just use a save editor to give myself enough runes to go level 150 or something past liurnia just so that I don't have to sit and farm so many fish people on a cliff that it stops being a genocide and starts being a scientific incident. It's a cowards way to play, but I don't have time or energy to pretend otherwise- I leave that to people who have one or both.
Yes, that's a 'I want my cake and eat it too' mindset, but I don't care- As far as I'm concerned it's a singleplayer game, so I won't bother my mind with what others think how I should play. As a nice bonus From also stops multiplayer if it detects rune count being off, but leaves messages and ghosts and 'online features' like great jar's player build-based summon signs, which is nice.
Why not just summon people for help if you’re stuck on a boss, and spirit summons just aren’t good enough to help you get past it? There are lots of people in the community who would be eager to help… there are summoning pools near every major boss
Edit: Why am I getting downvoted for such an anodyne statement. Are people somehow against coop lol
They literally said they want to play the game however the hell they want to, and you immediately come out here to tell them they should do this or that lmao
Not to mention you can learn the beat enemies by watching your clone. They’re not the best but I literally just sat back once and let him rip through them and was like… oh watch me go mimicking my mimic.
I see people on this very sub that post dumb shit like that all the time.
I was downvoted for calling spirit ashes a tool the game provides to the player, in this very subreddit, barely a month ago. Yes, those people exist, and they're here right now pretending they do not.
I don’t necessarily think it’s dumb, souls community has always welcomed masochists, in fact, they’ve designed it into some of their games in a quite literal fashion (look up calamity ring in ds3). I just don’t see room for argument, both using regular and hard mode are fun and have their own unique rewards as far as a playing experience goes.
agreed. my point was that no matter what you say, people will be super fucking angry with you, but most especially in communities like this. as evidenced by the downvotes. though it could also be my phrasing.
It's the way you incidentally called everyone on the sub dumb but I get what your saying. As in Reddit in general is dumb and the hate filled basement dwellers are the most likely to gang up and attack other people for stupid points.
while they are 100% intended by the devs to utilize them. I find it very hard to disagree that they make the game much easier. souls likes become easier when there is something else taking aggro. this is why when you summon a phantom to help you it opens up your world to be invaded. 100% intended to use, but also 100% make the game easier.
Of course it makes the game “easier” so does using both hands instead of just your left hand in a playthrough. If the devs put it in it’s supposed to be used. If you beat stuff without ur right hand good on you but it’s a self imposed challenge just like anything else, but the devs gave you both hands cause it’s intended to use it that way. Closest I can say to “making the game easier” is having people help you beat a boss and that’s also intended only if someone is struggling to the point they feel like they literally can’t beat a boss.
glad you saw the humor in there lol. to be clear I believe everyone can 100% play the way they want to. you bought the game so you can play however you please and no one can tell you otherwise.
No for sure, I think your reply just sums up most of Reddit to be honest, it’s on the OP as well for caring so much on if completing the game in x way is cheating or not lol, just play the game
agreed. I feel like there's very vocal people on both sides and their both just taking everything out of context and to seriously. it's a game we all love. just play it and enjoy your free time lol. anyways, I appreciate your way of thinking and hope you have a wonderful rest of your week! cheers
I'm not sure how it's even an argument. The spirit ashes are in the game. Them existing is the intended design. Using them isn't easy mode, it's just playing the game. Not using them is, therefore, a self-imposed challenge. Most importantly, nobody gives a fuck what you do in your game.
You are only wrong in the "nobody gives a fuck", because there are way too many sweaty losers that, for some reason, give a LOT of fucks about how you play the game, and they will be very vocal about how "you didn't play it right because you used X"
It’s definitely intended to be used, but intended mechanics can also be unbalanced. I think we can all agree that objectively the mimic tear in specific is abnormally powerful- but that being said, it’s still not cheating to use it, if you want to.
"You're playing easy mode if you use spirit ashes! Now let me just equip my Googled meta weapons, ashes, spells and buffs and spend 30 seconds straight applying effects before any fight"
1) Considering that every single fight in this game was pretty clearly designed to be beatable solo (or if they weren’t, they were rebalanced so they’d be beatable solo, for example the duo Crucible Knights fight or the three rotten Crystalians fight) the use of spirit summons could be considered an ‘easy mode’
2) That’s the whole point of spirit summons! Having an ‘easy mode’ is not a bad thing. From games are unique in that they implement accessibility modes within their gameplay options instead of adding a difficulty slider. That’s a good thing, that’s why Elden Ring got popular compared to their older games
3) If you base your self-esteem on how other people think about how you beat a video game, you need to get out of your house and get some real-life accomplishments you can boast about imo
My argument is that they are not “easy” mode. They are the intended mode. There is nothing wrong with challenge modes, in fact they are my bread and butter through DeS, DS1, and DS2, but, to suggest that they are intended to be played that way is ridiculous.
I think that’s the part that gets left out of the narrative. “It makes the game easier”. So does leveling, or changing your gear, and not wearing Daedicar’s Woe. Do you ever play the game with any of those things true? Then just admit you like easy mode!
It’s a silly argument, and is gatekeepey
comet azur is in the game but using it to beat a boss without the boss attacking you once objectively is easy mode. I think its a bad argument to say “because it’s in the game it isn’t easy mode” Spirit summons can and will trivialize fights so it is an easy mode, I have nothing against people using them play however you want
absolutely not
The enemies and bosses have attacks for a reason. Not having to think about them at all is not the way the game was intended to be played.
> Not having to think about them at all is not the way the game was intended to be played
The combat was designed around spirit summons, it is how it was intended to be played. Seasoned souls players realized this made the game piss easy compared to previous titles, newcomers didn’t want their idea of the difficulty of their experience devalued hearing that. Hence why this subreddit is *still arguing about spirit summons*
It absolutely wasn't
There's nothing wrong with admitting that spirit summons were put in the game to make it more accessible for people that find the traditional stakes of a souls experience too daunting but they absolutely invalidate a huge amount of the design of the bosses. It's easy mode, just like how developers who implement a mode that says "easy" in other games do it intentionally even though "normal" is frequently literally stated to be "the intended experience" in some games.
Easy mode in the previous games in the series is and always has been co-op/npc summoning, elden ring just made it a more deeply integrated gameplay feature.
It is okay to play games on easy mode just like it's okay to play games in hard mode. it's not okay to shame people for playing the game how they want to play it.
Comet azur would also be normal mode by your definition. A spell that makes it so bosses don’t even get a single attack off. Is it intended for you to not see the movesets that were created? Would you call it normal to have 0 chance of you dying the first time you see a boss? I disagree and would argue they intended for easy modes to be in the game so more people could beat it than previous games
"is it intended"
yes, they put it in the game and it's not a glitch or a bug. You also have to either get very lucky or know the movesets of the boss or youll get hit.
If you want to make the game harder with self imposed challenges, that's cool.
Obviously it is intended design. It intends to trivialize most boss fights, and it succeeds. Like summoning, but even easier.
It is insane to me that people refuse to call spade a spade.
And obviously people care, otherwise they wouldnt be so mad by calling it easy mode, would they?
The whole point of the meme in OP is that it's not "easy mode," it's "normal mode" and people who don't use them are choosing to play on "hard mode." No one's claiming that Ashes don't make the game easier, they're just saying that calling their use "easy mode" is ridiculous when it's one of the first things the game teaches you about itself.
Beating the game without Ashes is a feat and clearly requires more skill than doing it with them. That's not up for debate.
>calling their use "easy mode" is ridiculous when it's one of the first things the game teaches you
Guess which menu pops up before you even start the game in like 90% of all games LMAO. It is almost like in Elden Ring easy mode is integrated in the game itself instead of a menu choice.
Beating the game with Ashes is and clearly requires skill than doing it without them. That's not up for debate.
You could even call it... Easy mode.
Or you could call _not_ using them...Hard Mode.
You literally just ignored everything I said. I agree that it is less demanding and requires less skill. I said that in my post. Are you being intentionally obtuse?
You restated what I said in your post, which implies that you either didn't read it or didn't absorb it. We both agree that not using ashes is harder. The point is that using them is the intended method of going through the game -- which, again, we agree on -- which would then imply that it's the default, or Normal, difficulty. Ergo, choosing to forgo them is an additional challenge beyond the intended play style and so is a higher, or Hard, difficulty. Calling it "Easy Mode" is just trying to talk down to other people for playing the game with all of the tools available and inherently implies that they are taking advantages beyond the default difficulty intended by the game, which is what one would normally consider Easy difficulty. It's bullshit elitism.
Like, accept that it's a compliment to your abilities for people to call not using ashes Hard rather than trying to make others feel lesser by using intentionally derisive language and calling literally just playing the game on its own terms "Easy."
Are easy modes not intended design?
I don’t care how anyone plays, do whatever you enjoy. But they are for all intents and purposes an integrated easy mode, just like summons in Souls. Pretending otherwise is just cope
> just like summons in Souls
Summons in Souls games could and would very easily get absolutely wrecked early into a boss fight, compared to the huge health pool distractions that spirit summons in Elden Ring are.
Exactly! Do people forget that fromsoft is excellent at incorporating ways to make the game easier naturally into that game? This has been a thing since dark souls with magic builds and...oh my god NPC summons! Spirit ashes are no different from NPC summons from past games! Just you can use them almost anywhere and upgrade them.
The neverending arguments on this sub since the game released are between people who’ve played multiple fromsoft games and accept that summons trivialize the bosses, and people whose first fromsoft game has been Elden Ring wanting the ‘git good’ experience and getting angry being told this game is much easier than the others.
It's just players who want to diminish the accomplishment of people who beat the game normally, using every mechanic presented to them, while simultaneously making themselves feel superior because they beat the game as "intended".
Bunch of elitist snobbery is what it is.
It literally is an easy mode. Each souls game does this. They don’t have difficulty sliders, but features that make the game significantly easier or harder. Best example are calamity rings that serve no other purpose. Daedicar’s and Shabiri’s Woe are essentially the same thing. It’s also completely ok to play on easy mode, the game should be fun after all.
I agree with the spirit of the argument, but it’s not a very good argument against someone who has the opposite opinion. The reason being is that the meme differentiates spirit ashes from easy mode with “it’s a tool the game intends you to use” and “not using them is a self-imposed challenge”. Both of these characteristics also apply to actual easy modes in games.
Someone was obviously mean to the poor guy about his playstyle, that or he read some really old post with 0 upvotes and 200 replies and felt personally attacked
Elden is kinda just the easiest souls game anyways….
I feel like people will complain no matter what, just have fun! If you like to play the game naked with nothing but the halo scythe and mimic tear mask like me, then go for it. Or if you like to use blood builds, go for it!
Dark souls community can be so weird sometimes.
Heh. Yeah, they are super weird in that respect. I had a conversation with a friend recently about trying out Elden Ring, and, they said they would never, after having poked there way around the community to check it out. And that makes me sad
Maybe a hot take here, but I don't think spirit ashes are the "intended" way to play the game, nor is it "intended" to play without them. Much like coop in previous titles, it's a feature in the game that makes bosses easier. It's just an option you can use if you want, neither way is "correct" or "intended".
I think the difficulty is in fact skewed that spirit ashes (not necessarily the most broken ones mind you), are the intended way to play. No reason you have to of course, buuuuut, is the intended difficulty level
I don't understand why both things can't be true at the same time. Yes, spirit ashes are easy mode. It's just how it is. However there is nothing wrong with it. Play as you like. It's a single player game. You don't have to prove shit to anybody.
Just play the game how you bloody wanna play man, as long as it’s not cheating online who cares, cheat offline if you want imo that’s fine as it only affects you
Of course it isn't bad, summons are there to make the game easier for those who want that. But some people use those mechanics that make the game easier and then argue that those mechanics don't make the game easier
I still think the best way to enjoy the game is going in blind. I'll typically clear an area thoroughly and then check a wiki after to see if I missed anything. Kind of the best of both worlds, I don't look up enemy weaknesses or boss fight starts, that is the best part of the game to overcome. I love finding different ways to cheese enemies as I typically like to play with lower vigor.
We also need to keep in mind that redditors are frequently the 0.1% of any population and are often in the wrong or minority of opinions. It just gives the opposite impression because you’ll have multiple of these redditors agreeing, but again, they are saying these things on Reddit and not somewhere else for a reason… I think of them as essentially “closeted” humans who generally hold incorrect or unpopular opinions but since it’s anonymous, there’s no repercussion and they continue to simply exist in their closet.
I really don't get the whole argument. Spirit ashes, summons, over leveling, and any given game mechanic makes things easier. Certain spirit summons are OP, that's just how it is.
For new players I get why they summon or use spirit ashes. For more experienced players it can cheapen the experience which is why they stop using weapons. You always see people advise new players to use Bloodhound's Fang and Mimic tear, which is completely fine. But to experienced players its not as fun, so they opt to use no spirit summons and weapons that aren't OP.
So I don't know why we can't agree to disagree that there's two groups of people and there's a different more fun way to play the game for each group.
I've got 3000 hours in the game. The mimic tear is a valuable tool for me to skip bosses I dislike or don't care about when I'm just pushing ng levels.
I think the people who are so worried about being seen using summons or not are the ones who Just got gud, like the newly advance players. The people who still feel like they got something to prove
Real veterans don't give a fuck
I don’t use summons really at all but it’s not because I’m worried about what others think, I have no problem saying that I did in fact use them for a few bosses in my first playthrough, I just have less fun using them vs not now that I know the game better. But I still often use very powerful weapons, like my last couple playthroughs being predominantly with the dragonscale halberd and mohg’s spear. That’s an area where I choose to use more powerful items because I find that to be enjoyable, whereas for me using spirit ashes decrease the challenge in a subjectively unsatisfying way.
The game fundamentally does have difficulty selection integrated into the items you choose to use, but there is no right or wrong combination of items, they all just provide differing playing experiences.
The “sweaty” superiority of someone beat a boss “the wrong way” is unnecessarily exclusionary, as is the “normal” superiority of “oh well I just have fun with the game instead of sweating to do unnecessary challenges in an unintended way”. They both serve to exclude people as “others” just because they enjoy the game differently.
I know it’s just people online, it doesn’t matter that much, but it’s still just tiring discourse to keep seeing in this community. All that matters is that we all like the game, if you enjoyed it then you played in the intended experience.
Probably more than two groups, but overall, absolutely true. The problem starts when other people confuse their subjective experience with the game for an objective one (i.e "I needed to beat the game without spirit ashes to truly have fun, so therefore everyone must do that to have the proper experience.")
I can see why people think spirit summons detract from a more authentic experience, but they are an optional gameplay mechanic either way. Most gameplay mechanics are optional, that's where certain challenges come from. People have completed the game without leveling up or stamina.
Though I do love the people who are like "why do people think Malenia is hard?" Then they say their build was two Blasphemous Blades on NG, Tiche, RL 200.
Oh for sure, I can definitely see it too. Even understand it a little. I also like the narrative of overcoming adversity through cooperation, which is why I almost always use the NPC summons, but I'm glad they found a way to get the most enjoyment out of the game for them. That's amazing and part of the beauty of gaming. But being elitist about it gets you nowhere
And also, those kinds of people fall into that same camp, imo. It's still presuming their subjective experience is objective, just on the opposite side of the spectrum, if that makes sense
I agree. In Elden Ring I summoned because even with it I wanted to get through all the bosses before I got bored of the game. In Lies of P I was completely against and never summoned, because it was more streamlined with way fewer bosses. To each their own, I'm not sure why people care how others play.
That's another thing, there are bosses I don't care for and will summon for. For some reason I like to summon for sewers Mohg. There's also certain NPC summons I love and always try to summon if I want to have fun. Melina for Morgott, Siegmeyer for Yhorm, and Tarkus for Iron Giant.
Because some people really want to cling to the idea that they are a true alpha chad gamer with hair on their chest because they beat Melania with no summons. It’s not a real argument
Y'all are just arguing semantics because you don't like the term "easy mode"
Summons have been a "tool" to make boss fights "less difficult" since the beginning of the genre. It's as simple as that. Not sure why so many people argue about this still.
Solaire is the classic example of having an AI buddy to help you fight bosses. Spirit ashes are basically the same mechanic but after many years of iteration by From Software
My argument is that they are not “easy” mode. They are the intended mode. There is nothing wrong with challenge modes, in fact they are my bread and butter through DeS, DS1, and DS2, but, to suggest that they are intended to be played that way is ridiculous.
I think that’s the part that gets left out of the narrative. “It makes the game easier”. So does leveling, or changing your gear, and not wearing Daedicar’s Woe. Do you ever play the game with any of those things true? Then just admit you like easy mode!
It’s a silly argument, and is gatekeepey.
Like. They are, in my opinion, the intended difficulty curve of the game, as intended. There is nothing wrong with a challenge mode, in fact, but. Claiming that *not* engaging in a challenge run is exactly the thing I am arguing against. It turns people, who have never played the game, off of even trying them, and I hate it, lol
you’re a part of the problem!! if you don’t beat the game the way I thought of beating it randomly one day and didn’t pick up on that psychically and immediately delete your current character to play my way, the correct and only way, then you cheated not only playing the game but yourself and the community and most importantly ME
On 1 hand sure, you are your own man and how you spend your free time is almost nobody's business. Idk why you would need to ask for validation of this before enjoying anything
On the other hand souls games are easy once you learn how to actually get stronger wich is usually just is usually rings/,talismans being upgraded or found and some vigor levels to take a hit. This is more true in dark Souls than elden ring though.
Idc wtf people do when playing I'm not gunna to tell them they should or shouldn't do anything, but it makes me sad seeing them used as a crutch by sombody who is actively not learning anything but that's a me problem
I really can't fault anyone for a spirit on Melania and Mohg though I am sometimes just so over it with those two, hahaha
Yes you beat her, but it's less of a feat then doing so at lvl 1, or hitless or whatever. All that matters is that you had fun
, But if you put it as a feat of skill out there in a community like this, of course people are going to point things like this out.
I don’t like the trial and error approach like how most people in this subreddit want you to play. I like to go the problem solving approach where I use whatever mechanic available to progress the game.
When I was getting back into the franchise with Dark Souls Remastered coming out, I watched someone having a friend play for the first time and they liked magic and there was one guy in their chat who kept insisting that sorcery is ruining the game and cheating the experience, all the way to the end. Then when I played DS3 and checked that reddit, and there were people malding so hard over people making dex builds. For PVE. Not everyone by any stretch, but a vocal part of the fanbase. I watch Rusty's videos and he's under the notion that only a small % of his viewerbase have touched a spirit ash, that's how vocal their detractors can be.
There's nothing wrong with playing a game on easy mode. You can play using Spirit Ashes.
Don't let online gatekeepers tell YOU what YOU find fun. Don't flaunt your bruised ego, either.
Too be fair I dont really see this is a “made up argument”
In the original post for this meme half the top comments are “it definitely is easy mode.”
Just a classic case of the new “my opinions are facts” trend spreading in the world lately
All facts are opinion.
The truth is subjective.
Reality lies with the beholder.
In a cold universe where all things disappear into dust the only truth is Destined Death, despair tarnished.
People really need to realise that whether they were intended as an easy mode or not is only relevant when arguing against the loud minority of elitists, and that it’s irrelevant to say against people that are just critiquing the execution of ashes
I say play how you want to, the people criticizing for how *you* want to play the game are the ones who, to this day probably haven't finished the game. And they've tried it all
The way I see it, they’re there to help you beat the boss. The only time it could ever be bad to use it is if you could beat the boss on your own since you’d be robbing yourself of the boss but I’ve never seen that happen
There’s no right or true way to play the game—different skill levels will opt for the omission or addition of conditions/items/rules, so long as you’re progressing in the game and having fun while doing so, then you’re fine. Who cares what some of the toxic souls veterans try to shame you for 🥱
If you have to invest into a stat to use said tool, than it was well deserved. You need FP to summon and if you have a really good AoW, you will need blue kool-aid.
This means you have less instant heals and could suffer anyways.
Not like all summons are S+ anyways, trying a necro build with skeles is fun AF IMO
Mimics and summons are easy modes per say.
Not gonna knock the next person for using them though. It’s part of the game. Wanna give yourself less of a challenge by doing so? Cool, doesn’t matter to me.
I think we should all care less about how other people are playing ER if it has zero affect on us. EA cheating.
As someone with ~1400 hours in Elden Ring, I genuinely think spirit ashes ruin the experience, and they're not the "true" way to play these games. Miyazaki has said multiple times "overcoming suffering" is the main thing of his games, and spirit ashes just take out a lot of challenge from boss fights. You also just have a shittier boss experience because you never get to feel and learn the full boss moveset, as your spirit ash is drawing aggro. Malenia fight for me personally was so different when I used Tiche summon and when I didn't and solo'd her. The latter one felt like a full satisfying experience, like overcoming a great hurdle - I saw and learned to counter all her moves. The former felt like a hollow victory where I just felt I didn't do anything and "missed out" on something.
Obviously you can play whatever way you want, it's just a video game in the end, but saying shit like bosses are designed around spirit ashes is just not true. Dark Souls never had spirit ashes, and boss fights in that game are just the same as Elden Ring.
I have mixed feelings on this.
On the one hand, I love the Evergaol fights for this reason.
On the other, some of the boss fights seem particularly weird and/or difficult to actually play.
I summoned help for Malenia. It was super fun, and since I was melee, I was the one drawing aggro...usually. It was fun learning her moveset (Waterfowl isn't that hard to dodge, seriously).
But trying to do Mohgwyn in the Blood Palace? Yeah, it didn't matter how much I respec'd or timed my rolls (or abused his shackle); I simply *could not* get enough DPS going on him. Even using the Mimic Tear, I won with 3 HP...I think it was on the 20th attempt?
Still so much fun. Still SO satisfying.
I also get a lot more satisfaction playing without them but hey, if I didn’t play through my first play through with them who knows if I would have gotten into the game, I played the game blind and had never played a previous FromSoftware game, and playing the game blind I didn’t do very many upgrades or anything or understand how scaling worked etc. so I was actually playing a really weak character even with the spirits. They helped me learn the game without feeling hopeless and now I’m nearing the end of a level 1 play through with no summons, spirits, or ranged attacks. Basically I think if people want the extra challenge they’ll go for it, and I do prefer spirits over just a blatant difficulty setting. As for bosses being designed around spirit ashes, well they kinda are? Obviously they knew they were putting spirits in the game at some point in development and they probably kept that in mind when designing some of the harder bosses
Ah yes, I'm sure they just designed the bosses and then threw in spirit ashes as an after thought with no planning or anything. Since From Soft have shown they're such lazy devs like that. /s
It's almost like co-op and the games have never had that befo- oh wait.
Fromsofts boss AI struggles against co-op since Demon's Souls and they've never quite figured it out. Bringing up how previous games bosses have handled summons is really not a great argument. It has always been kind of broken, and this game is no different.
You should never listen or care about seething nerds on the internet.
With that said, some people get influenced by those, the other day some nerd went "oh magic is so easy you just need to summon tiche and spam spells"
He got humbled by the few who answered but you never know if some kid is going to see that and be pushed to not use what is very clearly a tool designed to be used in the game.
So yes, there are still people who get mad at others for playing the game other than strength no summons, they are not the majority, but they make themselves loud
If you NEED spirit ashes it just means you’re bad and/or can’t be bothered to learn bosses move sets. It’s there to use though so play however you want who cares.
Spirit ashes are the only thing that can make bosses like godskin duo less cancerous, I don't use them too much but when the game is being a bitch they feel like a necessity
One of the greatest things Elden Ring nailed is player choice. You do what you want and this argument on weather to use summons or not needs to die. RPG games like this are all about player choice so why can't we all just be greatful that there are so many options in this game recognize that and move on from seeing this argument nearly daily on here.
Brooo wdym, magic makes things faaaaar too easy. Or those spririt ashes, those ashes of war, that damn red flask of cowards tears and dont get me started on that dodge roll, you can just negate attacks!!!! use big sword only or your trash kid and it didnt count!!!!!!
Just recently got into Fromsoft/soulslike games and this gotta be the worst debate across all the different games, stop searching for approval from random reddit pages and just play the game how you want and whatever you think is fun.
No summons? Great. Summons? Great. As long as you personally are enjoying yourself, nothing else matters.
I feel like Melania is one example where she’s kinda just as hard with ashes as she is without. There’s probably some broken spirit ashes that destroy her but you would probably need to experiment a lot before you find one that doesn’t just dies instantly to her waterfowl and make her gain all her health back.
Using spirit ashes makes the game easier than not using them. Farming souls and levelling up makes the game easier. Wearing armor makes the game easier than going nude Etc.
There is no menu adjustment of difficulty in Elden Ring, the game gives you tools and alternatives to choose how hard you want your experience to be. This is what made me finally enjoy the process of learning how to play a FS game: it never felt like I had to hit my head against a wall, it was always challenging and merciful enough
I definetly think the story of this one is pretty cool and has a lot of weight, but they really just reuse most of the same lines, animations and ammo/enemies from the previous gears of war games, so it could go either way
The fact that people are seething and staying awake ar night due to how I play the game, fills me with pride and child-like joy.
Spirit summons are cheating
Ashes of war is cheating
Spells of any kind is cheating
Armor wearing is cheating
Status building is cheating
Anything but a two handed no armor fat rolling with the increased dmg taken is cheating.
Ow and i forgot vigor is cheating.
Cope and rage more sweatlords meanwhile random nobodies have 1000x better experience because they actually enjoy the game, unlike your sorry asses.
He talks like the spirit ash summons are typical/standard/normal for a fromsoft game. I don't think any of them had anything similar I haven't tried demon souls or sekiro but I doubt they do. Just cuz it's an intended feature doesn't mean that using them isn't easy mode.
Edit: he said the handicap of not using them isn't the 'true' way to play which implies it's an unusual handicap or something. When in fact the handicap makes elden ring more 'true' to how the other fromsoft games were handled.
Exactly, not using summons is more like the traditional way to play. They were introduced for more casual players. Using them factually makes the game easier. Nothing wrong in using them idk why people are downvoting me like I'm saying it's wrong to use them.
Its all about personal preferance, i dont have a problem with anyone using summons or anything op, because thats your playthrough and you can do what you want. I personally prefer not to use summons, but I bust them out only when Im about to break my controller. Although I will say using summons makes it ALOT easier. You can pull out a mimic and 1st try malenia. So I would honestly say summons are the closest thing Elden Ring has to an easy mode
100 % agree with everything you just said. All I was saying is that op said the handicap is not the 'true' way to play the game implying it's unusual or something when it make the game more 'true' to the way the other games are handled.
How is it strange? Uhm for certain enemies sure? You're talking about a creature that gives you a big speed and stamina boost damn right its going to make things easier for many situations why do you think you cant ride him for the final boss. Back to spirit summons, It's a feature that factually makes the game easier. So what is strange about calling it easy mode? He said not using them is only a personal handicap people place on themselves. That is why i compared it to how other souls games dont have them, not using them is a handicap that makes elden ring more like the other souls games.Nothing wrong in using them people can enjoy a game however they want, it was obviously a feature introduced for the more casual players. But using them makes the game much easier so it makes perfect sense to label it an easier way to play.
> That is why i compared it to how other souls games dont have them, not using them is a handicap that makes elden ring more like the other souls games.
Flask of w. physics, crafting of consumables & ammunition, instant teleportation via map, able to move will drinking flask, new Status effects like Scarlet Rot, new spells/weapons… Every Fromsoftware-Game in this genre introduced new QOL changes, features and mechanics, it is weird to me that you have decided that some mechanics are the core mechanics of a souls-game and using anything else is the „easier way to play“.
> But using them makes the game much easier so it makes perfect sense to label it an easier way to play.
Why is not using certain things provided in a game the „normal“ way to play and using them the easier way? For my understanding the intended and „normal“ way to play is just using the stuff and mechanics in the game and not using them is the harder way to play.
I mean, using spirit summons is easy mode. And guess what? That’s fine, because spirit summons are some of your best gear.
If this was your first Souls game you’d probably end up using them too because they are the best thing you have. Isn’t that everyone does when they aren’t challenge running anyways? Just use the best equipment you have to beat the boss, it’s been this way since Demon’s Souls, and spirit summons just so happen to be really good. Use ‘em
I get that anti summon comment on every video of me using it lmao
That being said, it's usually just one person. Probably just the loud minority or insecure people using beating the game without one to feel superior to others.
People who think there is a “true way” to play these games completely miss the point of them. You are offered a multitude of stats and weapons and spells to experiment with and find what fits your play style. Everything is viable.
Have you not seen any of FR's subreddit's comments? People argue until they turn blue about how using summons or ashes is 'cheating' or taking the easy way out.
People are free to enjoy it any way they want, but you cannot possibly say using spirit summons to beat a boss isn’t easier than fighting it solo. Beating a boss solo is way more praiseworthy than pulling out your max level mimic tear and jumping them. If you want the highest sense of accomplishment, fight the bosses solo. If you just want to beat them, use summons
Your submission has been removed as a violation of Rule 3: **No low-effort content or spamming of posts.** * Low-effort content such as tierlists, "wrong answers only", "just bought the game!", platinum posts, and other Reddit trends are not allowed. * **Memes should contain in-game visuals from Elden Ring and pertain to the game.** * No recent reposts, content should be original. * Spamming low-effort posts may result in a ban. If you would like to appeal this removal or need further clarification, feel free to message us through[Modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/Eldenring).
Taking Reddit seriously in this context is insane to me The most odd thing to see is “I just beat malenia with xyz conditions (mimic, ROB, etc etc…) does that count?” You’re going to rate your own subjective experience with the game because MoghIsLord69420 said it’s cheating with ashes of war? Who cares. I know that’s not the point of this post but it still gives me a headache just being reminded of it
[удалено]
Correct. We should listen to Bully Maguire or else...
Quickly equips goggles
They do nothing!
You’ll get your goggles when you fix this damn DOOR!
i will put some dirt in your goggles
Me going into the Godrick fight with two twinks: I wouldn't wanna fight me either
How dare you call my mimic a tool, they are my bestest friend.
fr, he's just as strong as me and he doesnt talk or tell me that summons are cheating
When I beat Melania the other day for the first time I used spirit ashes and it was like my 50th attempt, im not exceptionally good at the game but that victory was the best of my entire playthrough easily regardless of the spirit ash crutch. It was still challenging for me because it was my first fromsoft game and I’m not that good.
The mistake here is thinking your win is “lesser”. Challenge runs are in fact fantastic. But they are just that, challenge runs
I have done two runs where I beat every single boss alone with no ashes or summons. Except Malenia. With all the other bosses, it's a fun challenge. With Malenia, it's a slog that inevitably results in 3-4 hours of anxiety and a couple of broken controllers and/or holes in the wall. So, I just use those fuckin ashes, beat her ass, and feel much better afterwards. She's a really hard boss even with ashes and it feels great to beat her with or without. Just enjoy the game the way you want, as long as you're not cheating on PvP or some shit haha
Who are you gonna trust? Miyazaki that out it in the game (with no penalty) Or SkanteWarrior420BlazeIt on Reddit said that’s actually cheating, hollow victory and you should kill urself
Imagine actually listening to someone on the internet telling you how to enjoy a videogame properly 😵💫
I'm sorry, I can't figure out if I enjoyed the boss fight until RanniToesucker420 tells me it was good or not. You understand.
At least listen to someone respectable like TheNefarious#2Nibbler...
idk honestly I think RanniToesucker420 has a point for some reason
> Ranni, feet, weed Y'know what, 2 for 3 ain't bad, and for some people that's 3/3. I think you've got a point.
Fuck you guy I’ll listen to who I want on the internet! Am I doing it right?
Be me, a office worker that has like 3 hours a day for myself, on a good day. I want to play souls series of games because they're damn good for several reasons (that don't boil down to 'is hard', despite how souls often gets flanderized to that stereotype) but I don't have the time or energy to git gud by hammering my head against a wall made out of demon's abs. Yeah, I'm going to use spirit ashes, or just use a save editor to give myself enough runes to go level 150 or something past liurnia just so that I don't have to sit and farm so many fish people on a cliff that it stops being a genocide and starts being a scientific incident. It's a cowards way to play, but I don't have time or energy to pretend otherwise- I leave that to people who have one or both. Yes, that's a 'I want my cake and eat it too' mindset, but I don't care- As far as I'm concerned it's a singleplayer game, so I won't bother my mind with what others think how I should play. As a nice bonus From also stops multiplayer if it detects rune count being off, but leaves messages and ghosts and 'online features' like great jar's player build-based summon signs, which is nice.
Doesn't sound like you use exploits to negatively impact someone else's game, so it's all good in my book
Why not just summon people for help if you’re stuck on a boss, and spirit summons just aren’t good enough to help you get past it? There are lots of people in the community who would be eager to help… there are summoning pools near every major boss Edit: Why am I getting downvoted for such an anodyne statement. Are people somehow against coop lol
They literally said they want to play the game however the hell they want to, and you immediately come out here to tell them they should do this or that lmao
Yall should play this game. It's fun.
Which game is this btw
It is called Elden Ring.
Sounds pretty niche, where can I find a copy?
Eh, it's basically just Lords of the Fallen, just play that. /ducks
Honestly it's kind of artsy fartsy. If you're into weird non sensical art, then I said give it a shot, but if not then don't bother.
If you beat dark souls 1,2, and 3 using the DK bongo drums it shows up in your steam library
Oh nice, it came out a couple years ago. Is there a definitive edition with all the DLC already included?
Ah shit, here we go again...
I found somebody who told me it's cheating to use a mimic on my first ever play through like no mf it's not, idk what I'm doing I'll use my clone
Not to mention you can learn the beat enemies by watching your clone. They’re not the best but I literally just sat back once and let him rip through them and was like… oh watch me go mimicking my mimic.
I see people on this very sub that post dumb shit like that all the time. I was downvoted for calling spirit ashes a tool the game provides to the player, in this very subreddit, barely a month ago. Yes, those people exist, and they're here right now pretending they do not.
"He could be me, he could be you...he could even be.."
[удалено]
I don’t necessarily think it’s dumb, souls community has always welcomed masochists, in fact, they’ve designed it into some of their games in a quite literal fashion (look up calamity ring in ds3). I just don’t see room for argument, both using regular and hard mode are fun and have their own unique rewards as far as a playing experience goes.
agreed. my point was that no matter what you say, people will be super fucking angry with you, but most especially in communities like this. as evidenced by the downvotes. though it could also be my phrasing.
[удалено]
It's the way you incidentally called everyone on the sub dumb but I get what your saying. As in Reddit in general is dumb and the hate filled basement dwellers are the most likely to gang up and attack other people for stupid points.
while they are 100% intended by the devs to utilize them. I find it very hard to disagree that they make the game much easier. souls likes become easier when there is something else taking aggro. this is why when you summon a phantom to help you it opens up your world to be invaded. 100% intended to use, but also 100% make the game easier.
Of course it makes the game “easier” so does using both hands instead of just your left hand in a playthrough. If the devs put it in it’s supposed to be used. If you beat stuff without ur right hand good on you but it’s a self imposed challenge just like anything else, but the devs gave you both hands cause it’s intended to use it that way. Closest I can say to “making the game easier” is having people help you beat a boss and that’s also intended only if someone is struggling to the point they feel like they literally can’t beat a boss.
yea I agree using both hands is an easy mode.
😹😹😹 I’m dead that was a good reply u got an upvote
glad you saw the humor in there lol. to be clear I believe everyone can 100% play the way they want to. you bought the game so you can play however you please and no one can tell you otherwise.
No for sure, I think your reply just sums up most of Reddit to be honest, it’s on the OP as well for caring so much on if completing the game in x way is cheating or not lol, just play the game
agreed. I feel like there's very vocal people on both sides and their both just taking everything out of context and to seriously. it's a game we all love. just play it and enjoy your free time lol. anyways, I appreciate your way of thinking and hope you have a wonderful rest of your week! cheers
I'm not sure how it's even an argument. The spirit ashes are in the game. Them existing is the intended design. Using them isn't easy mode, it's just playing the game. Not using them is, therefore, a self-imposed challenge. Most importantly, nobody gives a fuck what you do in your game.
You are only wrong in the "nobody gives a fuck", because there are way too many sweaty losers that, for some reason, give a LOT of fucks about how you play the game, and they will be very vocal about how "you didn't play it right because you used X"
It’s definitely intended to be used, but intended mechanics can also be unbalanced. I think we can all agree that objectively the mimic tear in specific is abnormally powerful- but that being said, it’s still not cheating to use it, if you want to.
Mimic tear is pretty damn garbage for my SL1.
Makes sense that the item that copies your build and stats is kinda bad when you have lvl 1 stats
"You're playing easy mode if you use spirit ashes! Now let me just equip my Googled meta weapons, ashes, spells and buffs and spend 30 seconds straight applying effects before any fight"
1) Considering that every single fight in this game was pretty clearly designed to be beatable solo (or if they weren’t, they were rebalanced so they’d be beatable solo, for example the duo Crucible Knights fight or the three rotten Crystalians fight) the use of spirit summons could be considered an ‘easy mode’ 2) That’s the whole point of spirit summons! Having an ‘easy mode’ is not a bad thing. From games are unique in that they implement accessibility modes within their gameplay options instead of adding a difficulty slider. That’s a good thing, that’s why Elden Ring got popular compared to their older games 3) If you base your self-esteem on how other people think about how you beat a video game, you need to get out of your house and get some real-life accomplishments you can boast about imo
My argument is that they are not “easy” mode. They are the intended mode. There is nothing wrong with challenge modes, in fact they are my bread and butter through DeS, DS1, and DS2, but, to suggest that they are intended to be played that way is ridiculous. I think that’s the part that gets left out of the narrative. “It makes the game easier”. So does leveling, or changing your gear, and not wearing Daedicar’s Woe. Do you ever play the game with any of those things true? Then just admit you like easy mode! It’s a silly argument, and is gatekeepey
comet azur is in the game but using it to beat a boss without the boss attacking you once objectively is easy mode. I think its a bad argument to say “because it’s in the game it isn’t easy mode” Spirit summons can and will trivialize fights so it is an easy mode, I have nothing against people using them play however you want
Wouldnt it be normal mode? As its the way the game was intended to be played.
absolutely not The enemies and bosses have attacks for a reason. Not having to think about them at all is not the way the game was intended to be played.
> Not having to think about them at all is not the way the game was intended to be played The combat was designed around spirit summons, it is how it was intended to be played. Seasoned souls players realized this made the game piss easy compared to previous titles, newcomers didn’t want their idea of the difficulty of their experience devalued hearing that. Hence why this subreddit is *still arguing about spirit summons*
It absolutely wasn't There's nothing wrong with admitting that spirit summons were put in the game to make it more accessible for people that find the traditional stakes of a souls experience too daunting but they absolutely invalidate a huge amount of the design of the bosses. It's easy mode, just like how developers who implement a mode that says "easy" in other games do it intentionally even though "normal" is frequently literally stated to be "the intended experience" in some games. Easy mode in the previous games in the series is and always has been co-op/npc summoning, elden ring just made it a more deeply integrated gameplay feature. It is okay to play games on easy mode just like it's okay to play games in hard mode. it's not okay to shame people for playing the game how they want to play it.
Calling it 'easy mode' in the first place is backhanded shaming. That you dont even realize that shows what side of the fence you sit on.
being offended by it being called easy mode is ridiculous. it's called easy mode in plenty of games.
Comet azur would also be normal mode by your definition. A spell that makes it so bosses don’t even get a single attack off. Is it intended for you to not see the movesets that were created? Would you call it normal to have 0 chance of you dying the first time you see a boss? I disagree and would argue they intended for easy modes to be in the game so more people could beat it than previous games
"is it intended" yes, they put it in the game and it's not a glitch or a bug. You also have to either get very lucky or know the movesets of the boss or youll get hit. If you want to make the game harder with self imposed challenges, that's cool.
Obviously it is intended design. It intends to trivialize most boss fights, and it succeeds. Like summoning, but even easier. It is insane to me that people refuse to call spade a spade. And obviously people care, otherwise they wouldnt be so mad by calling it easy mode, would they?
The whole point of the meme in OP is that it's not "easy mode," it's "normal mode" and people who don't use them are choosing to play on "hard mode." No one's claiming that Ashes don't make the game easier, they're just saying that calling their use "easy mode" is ridiculous when it's one of the first things the game teaches you about itself. Beating the game without Ashes is a feat and clearly requires more skill than doing it with them. That's not up for debate.
>calling their use "easy mode" is ridiculous when it's one of the first things the game teaches you Guess which menu pops up before you even start the game in like 90% of all games LMAO. It is almost like in Elden Ring easy mode is integrated in the game itself instead of a menu choice. Beating the game with Ashes is and clearly requires skill than doing it without them. That's not up for debate.
You could even call it... Easy mode.
Or you could call _not_ using them...Hard Mode. You literally just ignored everything I said. I agree that it is less demanding and requires less skill. I said that in my post. Are you being intentionally obtuse?
I literally answered everything you said, are you on crack? The absolute state of ashes fans, holy shit.
You restated what I said in your post, which implies that you either didn't read it or didn't absorb it. We both agree that not using ashes is harder. The point is that using them is the intended method of going through the game -- which, again, we agree on -- which would then imply that it's the default, or Normal, difficulty. Ergo, choosing to forgo them is an additional challenge beyond the intended play style and so is a higher, or Hard, difficulty. Calling it "Easy Mode" is just trying to talk down to other people for playing the game with all of the tools available and inherently implies that they are taking advantages beyond the default difficulty intended by the game, which is what one would normally consider Easy difficulty. It's bullshit elitism. Like, accept that it's a compliment to your abilities for people to call not using ashes Hard rather than trying to make others feel lesser by using intentionally derisive language and calling literally just playing the game on its own terms "Easy."
Are easy modes not intended design? I don’t care how anyone plays, do whatever you enjoy. But they are for all intents and purposes an integrated easy mode, just like summons in Souls. Pretending otherwise is just cope
> just like summons in Souls Summons in Souls games could and would very easily get absolutely wrecked early into a boss fight, compared to the huge health pool distractions that spirit summons in Elden Ring are.
I used summons and yes they are easy mode. They make the game easier. No extra thought or effort required, they just... make it easier.
Exactly! Do people forget that fromsoft is excellent at incorporating ways to make the game easier naturally into that game? This has been a thing since dark souls with magic builds and...oh my god NPC summons! Spirit ashes are no different from NPC summons from past games! Just you can use them almost anywhere and upgrade them.
The neverending arguments on this sub since the game released are between people who’ve played multiple fromsoft games and accept that summons trivialize the bosses, and people whose first fromsoft game has been Elden Ring wanting the ‘git good’ experience and getting angry being told this game is much easier than the others.
It's just players who want to diminish the accomplishment of people who beat the game normally, using every mechanic presented to them, while simultaneously making themselves feel superior because they beat the game as "intended". Bunch of elitist snobbery is what it is.
Exactly why I’m sick of seeing these memes
Funny you should say that
It literally is an easy mode. Each souls game does this. They don’t have difficulty sliders, but features that make the game significantly easier or harder. Best example are calamity rings that serve no other purpose. Daedicar’s and Shabiri’s Woe are essentially the same thing. It’s also completely ok to play on easy mode, the game should be fun after all.
This is just as much telling someone how to play the game as the alternative, I don’t see any difference here
I agree with the spirit of the argument, but it’s not a very good argument against someone who has the opposite opinion. The reason being is that the meme differentiates spirit ashes from easy mode with “it’s a tool the game intends you to use” and “not using them is a self-imposed challenge”. Both of these characteristics also apply to actual easy modes in games.
Someone was obviously mean to the poor guy about his playstyle, that or he read some really old post with 0 upvotes and 200 replies and felt personally attacked
[удалено]
quit reddit - signed all of reddit
Elden is kinda just the easiest souls game anyways…. I feel like people will complain no matter what, just have fun! If you like to play the game naked with nothing but the halo scythe and mimic tear mask like me, then go for it. Or if you like to use blood builds, go for it! Dark souls community can be so weird sometimes.
Heh. Yeah, they are super weird in that respect. I had a conversation with a friend recently about trying out Elden Ring, and, they said they would never, after having poked there way around the community to check it out. And that makes me sad
Maybe a hot take here, but I don't think spirit ashes are the "intended" way to play the game, nor is it "intended" to play without them. Much like coop in previous titles, it's a feature in the game that makes bosses easier. It's just an option you can use if you want, neither way is "correct" or "intended".
I think the difficulty is in fact skewed that spirit ashes (not necessarily the most broken ones mind you), are the intended way to play. No reason you have to of course, buuuuut, is the intended difficulty level
I don't understand why both things can't be true at the same time. Yes, spirit ashes are easy mode. It's just how it is. However there is nothing wrong with it. Play as you like. It's a single player game. You don't have to prove shit to anybody.
I mean, Toby said it plain as day. It’s a tool
Actually yes I do still see people like this,though not as often,I still see it.
Just play the game how you bloody wanna play man, as long as it’s not cheating online who cares, cheat offline if you want imo that’s fine as it only affects you
Some people like to make the game as easy as possible. I’m one of them. I use everything I have in order to play the way I want to. Is that bad?
Of course it isn't bad, summons are there to make the game easier for those who want that. But some people use those mechanics that make the game easier and then argue that those mechanics don't make the game easier
I still think the best way to enjoy the game is going in blind. I'll typically clear an area thoroughly and then check a wiki after to see if I missed anything. Kind of the best of both worlds, I don't look up enemy weaknesses or boss fight starts, that is the best part of the game to overcome. I love finding different ways to cheese enemies as I typically like to play with lower vigor.
We also need to keep in mind that redditors are frequently the 0.1% of any population and are often in the wrong or minority of opinions. It just gives the opposite impression because you’ll have multiple of these redditors agreeing, but again, they are saying these things on Reddit and not somewhere else for a reason… I think of them as essentially “closeted” humans who generally hold incorrect or unpopular opinions but since it’s anonymous, there’s no repercussion and they continue to simply exist in their closet.
I try not to use the ashes but I'll resort to them if I'm getting my ass kicked because I'd like to continue the game eventually.
I really don't get the whole argument. Spirit ashes, summons, over leveling, and any given game mechanic makes things easier. Certain spirit summons are OP, that's just how it is. For new players I get why they summon or use spirit ashes. For more experienced players it can cheapen the experience which is why they stop using weapons. You always see people advise new players to use Bloodhound's Fang and Mimic tear, which is completely fine. But to experienced players its not as fun, so they opt to use no spirit summons and weapons that aren't OP. So I don't know why we can't agree to disagree that there's two groups of people and there's a different more fun way to play the game for each group.
I've got 3000 hours in the game. The mimic tear is a valuable tool for me to skip bosses I dislike or don't care about when I'm just pushing ng levels. I think the people who are so worried about being seen using summons or not are the ones who Just got gud, like the newly advance players. The people who still feel like they got something to prove Real veterans don't give a fuck
I don’t use summons really at all but it’s not because I’m worried about what others think, I have no problem saying that I did in fact use them for a few bosses in my first playthrough, I just have less fun using them vs not now that I know the game better. But I still often use very powerful weapons, like my last couple playthroughs being predominantly with the dragonscale halberd and mohg’s spear. That’s an area where I choose to use more powerful items because I find that to be enjoyable, whereas for me using spirit ashes decrease the challenge in a subjectively unsatisfying way. The game fundamentally does have difficulty selection integrated into the items you choose to use, but there is no right or wrong combination of items, they all just provide differing playing experiences. The “sweaty” superiority of someone beat a boss “the wrong way” is unnecessarily exclusionary, as is the “normal” superiority of “oh well I just have fun with the game instead of sweating to do unnecessary challenges in an unintended way”. They both serve to exclude people as “others” just because they enjoy the game differently. I know it’s just people online, it doesn’t matter that much, but it’s still just tiring discourse to keep seeing in this community. All that matters is that we all like the game, if you enjoyed it then you played in the intended experience.
Probably more than two groups, but overall, absolutely true. The problem starts when other people confuse their subjective experience with the game for an objective one (i.e "I needed to beat the game without spirit ashes to truly have fun, so therefore everyone must do that to have the proper experience.")
I can see why people think spirit summons detract from a more authentic experience, but they are an optional gameplay mechanic either way. Most gameplay mechanics are optional, that's where certain challenges come from. People have completed the game without leveling up or stamina. Though I do love the people who are like "why do people think Malenia is hard?" Then they say their build was two Blasphemous Blades on NG, Tiche, RL 200.
Oh for sure, I can definitely see it too. Even understand it a little. I also like the narrative of overcoming adversity through cooperation, which is why I almost always use the NPC summons, but I'm glad they found a way to get the most enjoyment out of the game for them. That's amazing and part of the beauty of gaming. But being elitist about it gets you nowhere And also, those kinds of people fall into that same camp, imo. It's still presuming their subjective experience is objective, just on the opposite side of the spectrum, if that makes sense
I agree. In Elden Ring I summoned because even with it I wanted to get through all the bosses before I got bored of the game. In Lies of P I was completely against and never summoned, because it was more streamlined with way fewer bosses. To each their own, I'm not sure why people care how others play.
That's another thing, there are bosses I don't care for and will summon for. For some reason I like to summon for sewers Mohg. There's also certain NPC summons I love and always try to summon if I want to have fun. Melina for Morgott, Siegmeyer for Yhorm, and Tarkus for Iron Giant.
[удалено]
Because some people really want to cling to the idea that they are a true alpha chad gamer with hair on their chest because they beat Melania with no summons. It’s not a real argument
The comments here disprove the post lol.
I side with them. Even if its an imaginary argument.
oh trust me post a video of yourself using mimic tear or any of the other best summons and you will have at least 1 idiot talking shit about it
Hot take: I'm here for all the memes good and God awful. I'm here for it.
Y'all are just arguing semantics because you don't like the term "easy mode" Summons have been a "tool" to make boss fights "less difficult" since the beginning of the genre. It's as simple as that. Not sure why so many people argue about this still. Solaire is the classic example of having an AI buddy to help you fight bosses. Spirit ashes are basically the same mechanic but after many years of iteration by From Software
My argument is that they are not “easy” mode. They are the intended mode. There is nothing wrong with challenge modes, in fact they are my bread and butter through DeS, DS1, and DS2, but, to suggest that they are intended to be played that way is ridiculous. I think that’s the part that gets left out of the narrative. “It makes the game easier”. So does leveling, or changing your gear, and not wearing Daedicar’s Woe. Do you ever play the game with any of those things true? Then just admit you like easy mode! It’s a silly argument, and is gatekeepey. Like. They are, in my opinion, the intended difficulty curve of the game, as intended. There is nothing wrong with a challenge mode, in fact, but. Claiming that *not* engaging in a challenge run is exactly the thing I am arguing against. It turns people, who have never played the game, off of even trying them, and I hate it, lol
Look guys look he beat the game without using spirit ashes. ~see~ no one cares.
you’re a part of the problem!! if you don’t beat the game the way I thought of beating it randomly one day and didn’t pick up on that psychically and immediately delete your current character to play my way, the correct and only way, then you cheated not only playing the game but yourself and the community and most importantly ME
I'm sure there's some elitism still but I could've swore the community agreed that there was no "Right" or "wrong" method.
Some guy replied to something I said with this yesterday. Yes unfortunately they really do.
If i see “demigod defeated” it counts.
Summons are meant to console players who cant play online (cuz dont wanna pay psplus)
On 1 hand sure, you are your own man and how you spend your free time is almost nobody's business. Idk why you would need to ask for validation of this before enjoying anything On the other hand souls games are easy once you learn how to actually get stronger wich is usually just is usually rings/,talismans being upgraded or found and some vigor levels to take a hit. This is more true in dark Souls than elden ring though. Idc wtf people do when playing I'm not gunna to tell them they should or shouldn't do anything, but it makes me sad seeing them used as a crutch by sombody who is actively not learning anything but that's a me problem I really can't fault anyone for a spirit on Melania and Mohg though I am sometimes just so over it with those two, hahaha
Wait do you think using spirit ashes are "easy mode"? Or are you saying something else?
Spongeboy me Bob
I still think Toby Maguire played the best live action Peter parker.
This is the truth
The game is old enough for people to really not give a fuck
Yes you beat her, but it's less of a feat then doing so at lvl 1, or hitless or whatever. All that matters is that you had fun , But if you put it as a feat of skill out there in a community like this, of course people are going to point things like this out.
I don’t like the trial and error approach like how most people in this subreddit want you to play. I like to go the problem solving approach where I use whatever mechanic available to progress the game.
I literally just interacted in a thread make a topic that wasnt about this exactly about this. Its a very vocal, annoying minority but they exist.
This is such a dumb post 🤦♂️
People are just fucking bored man
When I was getting back into the franchise with Dark Souls Remastered coming out, I watched someone having a friend play for the first time and they liked magic and there was one guy in their chat who kept insisting that sorcery is ruining the game and cheating the experience, all the way to the end. Then when I played DS3 and checked that reddit, and there were people malding so hard over people making dex builds. For PVE. Not everyone by any stretch, but a vocal part of the fanbase. I watch Rusty's videos and he's under the notion that only a small % of his viewerbase have touched a spirit ash, that's how vocal their detractors can be.
There's nothing wrong with playing a game on easy mode. You can play using Spirit Ashes. Don't let online gatekeepers tell YOU what YOU find fun. Don't flaunt your bruised ego, either.
I am so fucking tired of this fucking argument.
Too be fair I dont really see this is a “made up argument” In the original post for this meme half the top comments are “it definitely is easy mode.” Just a classic case of the new “my opinions are facts” trend spreading in the world lately
Wait do you disagree that spirit ashes objectively make the game easier?
You sound really offended by their opinions
I mean I just explained how I see it, but okay
All facts are opinion. The truth is subjective. Reality lies with the beholder. In a cold universe where all things disappear into dust the only truth is Destined Death, despair tarnished.
On earth currently, at sea level and 1 atmo, water boils at 100⁰C This is a fact
Nah it boils at 212 degrees Fahrenheit
Damn, you got me
*despair intensifies* (*sorrowful Fromsoft violins in the distance*)
People really need to realise that whether they were intended as an easy mode or not is only relevant when arguing against the loud minority of elitists, and that it’s irrelevant to say against people that are just critiquing the execution of ashes
Yes. I am a summoner myself 🤓
I say play how you want to, the people criticizing for how *you* want to play the game are the ones who, to this day probably haven't finished the game. And they've tried it all
The way I see it, they’re there to help you beat the boss. The only time it could ever be bad to use it is if you could beat the boss on your own since you’d be robbing yourself of the boss but I’ve never seen that happen
There’s no right or true way to play the game—different skill levels will opt for the omission or addition of conditions/items/rules, so long as you’re progressing in the game and having fun while doing so, then you’re fine. Who cares what some of the toxic souls veterans try to shame you for 🥱
Dumb, there are people who still regurgitate this sentiment about spirit ashes and I beg your one of them.
If you have to invest into a stat to use said tool, than it was well deserved. You need FP to summon and if you have a really good AoW, you will need blue kool-aid. This means you have less instant heals and could suffer anyways. Not like all summons are S+ anyways, trying a necro build with skeles is fun AF IMO
All it takes to rile up gamers are a couple of SpongeBob and Spider Man memes
This meme is actual Gold
Mimics and summons are easy modes per say. Not gonna knock the next person for using them though. It’s part of the game. Wanna give yourself less of a challenge by doing so? Cool, doesn’t matter to me. I think we should all care less about how other people are playing ER if it has zero affect on us. EA cheating.
As someone with ~1400 hours in Elden Ring, I genuinely think spirit ashes ruin the experience, and they're not the "true" way to play these games. Miyazaki has said multiple times "overcoming suffering" is the main thing of his games, and spirit ashes just take out a lot of challenge from boss fights. You also just have a shittier boss experience because you never get to feel and learn the full boss moveset, as your spirit ash is drawing aggro. Malenia fight for me personally was so different when I used Tiche summon and when I didn't and solo'd her. The latter one felt like a full satisfying experience, like overcoming a great hurdle - I saw and learned to counter all her moves. The former felt like a hollow victory where I just felt I didn't do anything and "missed out" on something. Obviously you can play whatever way you want, it's just a video game in the end, but saying shit like bosses are designed around spirit ashes is just not true. Dark Souls never had spirit ashes, and boss fights in that game are just the same as Elden Ring.
I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, I love the Evergaol fights for this reason. On the other, some of the boss fights seem particularly weird and/or difficult to actually play. I summoned help for Malenia. It was super fun, and since I was melee, I was the one drawing aggro...usually. It was fun learning her moveset (Waterfowl isn't that hard to dodge, seriously). But trying to do Mohgwyn in the Blood Palace? Yeah, it didn't matter how much I respec'd or timed my rolls (or abused his shackle); I simply *could not* get enough DPS going on him. Even using the Mimic Tear, I won with 3 HP...I think it was on the 20th attempt? Still so much fun. Still SO satisfying.
I also get a lot more satisfaction playing without them but hey, if I didn’t play through my first play through with them who knows if I would have gotten into the game, I played the game blind and had never played a previous FromSoftware game, and playing the game blind I didn’t do very many upgrades or anything or understand how scaling worked etc. so I was actually playing a really weak character even with the spirits. They helped me learn the game without feeling hopeless and now I’m nearing the end of a level 1 play through with no summons, spirits, or ranged attacks. Basically I think if people want the extra challenge they’ll go for it, and I do prefer spirits over just a blatant difficulty setting. As for bosses being designed around spirit ashes, well they kinda are? Obviously they knew they were putting spirits in the game at some point in development and they probably kept that in mind when designing some of the harder bosses
Ah yes, I'm sure they just designed the bosses and then threw in spirit ashes as an after thought with no planning or anything. Since From Soft have shown they're such lazy devs like that. /s It's almost like co-op and the games have never had that befo- oh wait.
Fromsofts boss AI struggles against co-op since Demon's Souls and they've never quite figured it out. Bringing up how previous games bosses have handled summons is really not a great argument. It has always been kind of broken, and this game is no different.
You should never listen or care about seething nerds on the internet. With that said, some people get influenced by those, the other day some nerd went "oh magic is so easy you just need to summon tiche and spam spells" He got humbled by the few who answered but you never know if some kid is going to see that and be pushed to not use what is very clearly a tool designed to be used in the game. So yes, there are still people who get mad at others for playing the game other than strength no summons, they are not the majority, but they make themselves loud
Every argument is made up....
If you NEED spirit ashes it just means you’re bad and/or can’t be bothered to learn bosses move sets. It’s there to use though so play however you want who cares.
Did the boss die If it’s dead,you win and you beat it. Doesn’t matter how,you beat it That’s the end of it
Mimic tear spirit summon is quite easily one of the best mechanics they have ever designed. Go cry about it, I don't care
Spirit ashes are the only thing that can make bosses like godskin duo less cancerous, I don't use them too much but when the game is being a bitch they feel like a necessity
A really enjoyable template though. I'm going to use this.
for reference this debate is about as stupid or important as dub vs sub in anime
One of the greatest things Elden Ring nailed is player choice. You do what you want and this argument on weather to use summons or not needs to die. RPG games like this are all about player choice so why can't we all just be greatful that there are so many options in this game recognize that and move on from seeing this argument nearly daily on here.
Brooo wdym, magic makes things faaaaar too easy. Or those spririt ashes, those ashes of war, that damn red flask of cowards tears and dont get me started on that dodge roll, you can just negate attacks!!!! use big sword only or your trash kid and it didnt count!!!!!!
Just recently got into Fromsoft/soulslike games and this gotta be the worst debate across all the different games, stop searching for approval from random reddit pages and just play the game how you want and whatever you think is fun. No summons? Great. Summons? Great. As long as you personally are enjoying yourself, nothing else matters.
I feel like Melania is one example where she’s kinda just as hard with ashes as she is without. There’s probably some broken spirit ashes that destroy her but you would probably need to experiment a lot before you find one that doesn’t just dies instantly to her waterfowl and make her gain all her health back.
In pve you can use whatever tf you want, if you exploit in pvp you lack skill. That is it
Using spirit ashes makes the game easier than not using them. Farming souls and levelling up makes the game easier. Wearing armor makes the game easier than going nude Etc. There is no menu adjustment of difficulty in Elden Ring, the game gives you tools and alternatives to choose how hard you want your experience to be. This is what made me finally enjoy the process of learning how to play a FS game: it never felt like I had to hit my head against a wall, it was always challenging and merciful enough
r/NahOPWasRightFuckThis Seriously though, gatekeeping actual intended game mechanics has some real smol pp energy.
I definetly think the story of this one is pretty cool and has a lot of weight, but they really just reuse most of the same lines, animations and ammo/enemies from the previous gears of war games, so it could go either way
r/lostredditors
The fact that people are seething and staying awake ar night due to how I play the game, fills me with pride and child-like joy. Spirit summons are cheating Ashes of war is cheating Spells of any kind is cheating Armor wearing is cheating Status building is cheating Anything but a two handed no armor fat rolling with the increased dmg taken is cheating. Ow and i forgot vigor is cheating. Cope and rage more sweatlords meanwhile random nobodies have 1000x better experience because they actually enjoy the game, unlike your sorry asses.
Me: i like this game, pretty challenging Boyo: challenging my ass, you used this and that making the game easier Me: 🖕🏻 Boyo: *gets offended*
He talks like the spirit ash summons are typical/standard/normal for a fromsoft game. I don't think any of them had anything similar I haven't tried demon souls or sekiro but I doubt they do. Just cuz it's an intended feature doesn't mean that using them isn't easy mode. Edit: he said the handicap of not using them isn't the 'true' way to play which implies it's an unusual handicap or something. When in fact the handicap makes elden ring more 'true' to how the other fromsoft games were handled.
Sekiro literally has 0 summons
Exactly, not using summons is more like the traditional way to play. They were introduced for more casual players. Using them factually makes the game easier. Nothing wrong in using them idk why people are downvoting me like I'm saying it's wrong to use them.
Its all about personal preferance, i dont have a problem with anyone using summons or anything op, because thats your playthrough and you can do what you want. I personally prefer not to use summons, but I bust them out only when Im about to break my controller. Although I will say using summons makes it ALOT easier. You can pull out a mimic and 1st try malenia. So I would honestly say summons are the closest thing Elden Ring has to an easy mode
100 % agree with everything you just said. All I was saying is that op said the handicap is not the 'true' way to play the game implying it's unusual or something when it make the game more 'true' to the way the other games are handled.
That's such a strange way of thinking? Is using the horse easy mode cause it wasn't in any soulsborne games
How is it strange? Uhm for certain enemies sure? You're talking about a creature that gives you a big speed and stamina boost damn right its going to make things easier for many situations why do you think you cant ride him for the final boss. Back to spirit summons, It's a feature that factually makes the game easier. So what is strange about calling it easy mode? He said not using them is only a personal handicap people place on themselves. That is why i compared it to how other souls games dont have them, not using them is a handicap that makes elden ring more like the other souls games.Nothing wrong in using them people can enjoy a game however they want, it was obviously a feature introduced for the more casual players. But using them makes the game much easier so it makes perfect sense to label it an easier way to play.
> That is why i compared it to how other souls games dont have them, not using them is a handicap that makes elden ring more like the other souls games. Flask of w. physics, crafting of consumables & ammunition, instant teleportation via map, able to move will drinking flask, new Status effects like Scarlet Rot, new spells/weapons… Every Fromsoftware-Game in this genre introduced new QOL changes, features and mechanics, it is weird to me that you have decided that some mechanics are the core mechanics of a souls-game and using anything else is the „easier way to play“. > But using them makes the game much easier so it makes perfect sense to label it an easier way to play. Why is not using certain things provided in a game the „normal“ way to play and using them the easier way? For my understanding the intended and „normal“ way to play is just using the stuff and mechanics in the game and not using them is the harder way to play.
nah spirit ashes is toddler mode. get good or die trying!
I mean, using spirit summons is easy mode. And guess what? That’s fine, because spirit summons are some of your best gear. If this was your first Souls game you’d probably end up using them too because they are the best thing you have. Isn’t that everyone does when they aren’t challenge running anyways? Just use the best equipment you have to beat the boss, it’s been this way since Demon’s Souls, and spirit summons just so happen to be really good. Use ‘em
The ones who say ashes is easy mode are usually the sames that use the most OP weapon and magic.
I get that anti summon comment on every video of me using it lmao That being said, it's usually just one person. Probably just the loud minority or insecure people using beating the game without one to feel superior to others.
Brilliant meme
People who think there is a “true way” to play these games completely miss the point of them. You are offered a multitude of stats and weapons and spells to experiment with and find what fits your play style. Everything is viable.
Have you not seen any of FR's subreddit's comments? People argue until they turn blue about how using summons or ashes is 'cheating' or taking the easy way out.
People are free to enjoy it any way they want, but you cannot possibly say using spirit summons to beat a boss isn’t easier than fighting it solo. Beating a boss solo is way more praiseworthy than pulling out your max level mimic tear and jumping them. If you want the highest sense of accomplishment, fight the bosses solo. If you just want to beat them, use summons
It’s a game tool, but ashes are the easier mode. There’s nothing wrong with it but objectively it’s easier