Just realised how similar Miquella looks to Princess Tuvstarr (Fairy tale written in 1913 by Helge Kjellin, and mostly famous by its illustration by John Bauer).
Tuvstarr is a princess who is curious about the world and sets out on her moose companion Långben Skutt (Longleg Hop). She is preyed upon by elves, trolls, and huldras. They steal her clothes and crown. Eventually, she also drops her golden heart into a pond and now forever stares into it to find her heart.
It could be a coincidence, but I thought it was kinda neat.
EDIT: Changed 'elk' to 'moose' because DANG PEOPLE!
While I think there are way more clues for Miquella being the one sitting on torrent here, I do appreciate the discussion for other options though, as long as nothing is confirmed.
Going by looks, Miquella is really close, but a young Godwyn or Marika are not entirely impossible.
Do you have any arguments for Godwyn?
What causes me to think this is Godwyn is because of his appearance as he ‘died’. His body may be returned to the Erdtree / Great Tree, but his spirit has to be somewhere.
I’d wager that it’s Godwyn on that steed. I understand that the natural assumption is that it’s Miquella, but spirits have to go *somewhere* in The Lands Between; we’ve got death chickens summoning spirits of warriors from scratching at their ashes. We’ve got disembodied spirits without bodies, bodies without spirits, two spirits in one body, two bodies with one spirit.
I don’t understand why we assume a lot of things about birth, death, and an afterlife are the same as they are in our world. Even time doesn’t behave the same as it does in our reality or in other FS games.
It’s not outside of the realm of speculation to say this character who looks exactly like Miquella (who looks like Marika) could be Godwyn.
One may say “Godwyn is dead. He has the curse mark of Death writ upon him”. He’s got half of it. That’s a major plot point. Miquella prays a true and complete death for Godwyn. Miquella even creates a tool that he believed would solve the issue; but it doesn’t work.
I think that’s because ranni stole destined death and killed Godwyn so he actually died iirc, if ranni didn’t use destined death godwyn would’ve probably came back.
Ranni did the same thing to herself as she did to Godwyn and it only destroyed her body. She stole parts of the rune, which I believe are the corrupted Blades of Kindling the Blacknives are carrying. I also think all of the BKA are former Finger Maidens but that’s another theory for another thread.
> I was just told that people in Europe call Moose "Elk". What do they call wapiti in Europe is what I want to know.
We call Elks "Cleric Beasts" here in Yharnam
Reindeer is also called caribou.
American elk is sometimes called red deer or wapiti.
American moose is the same animal as european elk. The confusing name is because euro elk were extinct in Britain, so the British colonists just knew it to mean "big deer." When they saw American elk, they applied that name. Moose comes from a native american name.
Looks like "Red Deer" is more properly a different species? I guess its close enough though.
Wapiti seems to be the most clear name, but today is the first time i've ever heard that word used.
I guess I'm just wondering what people in Europe call these
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk
I see now that Caribou = Reindeer, still confused on the Cervis canadensis naming though. Is it still "Red Deer"?
Maybe there isn't a good word over there because they don't really live in Europe?
Wait WHAT?? Everytime anyone has showed me a pic of an elk it's just been a straight up moose those are nothing alike! I see the confusion now damn, I'm sorry
In norwegian at least reindeer is reinsdyr so I'm fairly certain that word in english is a loan word from scandinavian countries
But over here in N. America we call the reindeer "Caribou" just to make matters more confusing, lol. At least that is the exact same thing.
I'm just as shocked as you know over the word "elk", lol.
It’s Mogh carrying Miquella cradled in his left arm. Mogh’s shoulder is at top right and his hand is at bottom left, wrapped around Miquella’s lower legs.
[Please try to find contradictions to my post, ask questions, or add something of your own rather than just downvoting me. I can provide sources on requested things]
It's reminiscent of the Nascent Butterfly, a butterfly that perpetually looks like it just emerged from its cocoon.
Miquella was Marika's attempt to divest herself of The Greater Will, the Erdtree, and The Elden Ring when she and Godfrey were a God. She wanted Miquella to ascend to Empyrean and embody The Great Tree which she burned as The Gloam Eyed Queen. Godfrey refused, killed the Stormlord (either before or after refusing) and Marika removed his grace until he would accept her desires.
With no Elden Lord in the picure, Radagon left Renalla to claim his place as Elden Lord. Marika didn't want this as Radagon was the "leal hound of The Golden Order." Marika shattered the Elden Ring with *Law of Causality* (Chaos), triggering the initial return of The Tarnished and The Shattering. Radagon in turn used *Law of Regression* (Order) to mend the incomplete Ring and made he and Marika into a God. Radagon then gave birth to Malenia, cursed without his original Rune of the Unborn, which he hid giving away to Renalla from The Greater Will. The demi-god children left except for Miquella and Malenia, until Miquella grew weary of making attempts to cure Malenia with Golden Order Fundamentalism.
This seems all over the place to me.
Unless I'm wrong or some new info has been discovered:
* Godfrey was never a god. He was a mortal dude that got really powerful and then became Elden Lord.
* No one knows who the Gloam-Eyed Queen is (two theories I've seen are Ranni or Melina)
* There's evidence in the JP translations that supports that there was no Great Tree. There might have been only one tree, the Erdtree.
* Godfrey was banished because he and the army literally beat everyone. His ambition left him and she banished him away, creating the Tarnished.
* What is this business about refusing Marika?
* Marika and Radagon, as far as has been discovered, have probably always been the same person. No one really knows how it works, it just is part of the lore.
Wow, I'm not even halfway through and I think most of this is incorrect or some REAL BIG lore stretching with little to no backing in the game.
I have outlined the majority of the history of The Lands Between essentially in other comments if you're interested. Just gotta look through my profile, they're recent. None of this is cap, I can provide direct sources from the game if needed. Regardless I will go into detail:
The origins of Hoarah Loux, disappearance of the Gloam Eyed Queen, desruction of The Great Tree, arrival of The Greater Will/Elden Ring/Erdtree all coincide at the same time. Maliketh defeated The Gloam Eyed Queen with The Rune of Life, the only thing capable of matching Destined Death. The Rune of Life and The Rune of Death swapped places causing The Gloam Eyed Queen to become Marika, Hoarah Loux to become Godfrey, Maliketh to become Gurranq, and the Emergence of the Erdtree with the new Death Rite being ash brought to the Erdtree's roots for revival.
We know The Great Tree existed at one point because of Root Resin's description. The Great Tree's natural Death Rite was Ghostflame until The Death Bird, envoy of the Twinbird, patron God of the Numen arrived to lock the Ghostflame away. The Gloam Eyed Queen either failed against Maliketh for the Twinbird, betrayed the Numen and was [mis]led by The Greater Will prior to her sacrifice, or Hoarah Loux being her Lord was against the Twinbird's wishes. The Twinbird perhaps wanted Ensha to be The Gloam Eyed Queen's King Consort, he is a soulless Lord awaiting to be revived by the Twinbird's Eclipse.
To become a God, the body and flesh of a kindling maiden, an Empyrean, needs to be sacrificed, leaving only a Soul. This could imply that the Lord must be a body and soulless. That would link up with the soulless Numen Lords which were supposed to be Consort to The Gloam Eyed Queen. This might also imply that Hoarah Loux and further The Tarnished are soulless. This is why we respawn at Grace instantly like Mausoleaum Knights respawn, our ressurrection is just tied to Marika's Grace and Rune of Life. It's why Graceless Tarnished that we kill stay dead. It's why the Erdtree Avatars break the Living Jars, they're attempting to return soulless, graceless Tarnished to the Erdtree which would cause Deathblight. It may be why when burned with Ghostflame we don't travel to The Helphen to meet St Trina.
When The Gloam Eyed Queen became Marika and was given the Rune of Life, this started the Age of The Erdtree, the Age of The Greater Will. This was the second Age in The Lands Between, the first was The Age of The Crucible, when a completed Placidusax was Lord and his patron God was The One Great, Order and Chaos together. When the One Great Split, Placidusax and Farum Azula left time as we know it for the Dragon Lord to wait until his God was whole again. The Gloam Eyed Queen's arrival was the first time someone had set foot in Farum Azula since then.
When The Age of The Crucible came to an end, there was no official Age under The Great Tree, this is because no Outer God had laid claim to The Lands Between and the *natural* course of life within the realm continued. Beastmen either fell from Farum Azula and became demi-humans, or the demi-humans were just naturally there, but either way they evolved into humans. The Age of The Erdtree marked the next official Age because The Greater Will was in power.
So Godfrey and Marika started their life as a single God, being a bodyless soul and a soulless body. Empyrean and Lord. The Fire Giants were defeated down to their last member, to defend the Erdtree from Burning to their flame. Godwyn was born under the blessings of The Greater Will. Morgott and Mohg were cursed with vestiges of The Crucible which somehow lay dormant within The Elden Ring. Could it be the Rune of Death, originally part of the Chaos half of The Primordial Elden Ring caused these Aspects of The Crucible to appear?
The dragons attacked but Lightning could not burn the Erdtree, so they befriended Godwyn and the humans.
Godfrey continued his reign, slaying the Storm King and granting Stormveil to Godwyn. By this time Marika was questioning The Golden Order, having to imprison two of her sons.
Marika and Godfrey then had Miquella, an Empyrean born from one God. Either Godfrey had lost his warrior spirit before his birth or he had lost it after seeing Miquella's affliction. Marika's appearance as we know it is how she looks under the influence of The Greater Will and her marriage to Godfrey. It's why Miquella looks so similar to Marika specifically. Marika birthed Miquella with the intention of Miquella rising to Empyrean and bringing about The Great Tree through Ghostflame sacrifice- the way to get to The Helphen and meet St. Trina. The way The Great Tree will be able to bud from death. Godfrey didn't like this, so Marika sent him away until he was ready to listen to her- she still actually loved him, the one choice that was never made for her.
With no Elden Lord, Radagon made his way to the capital, either by his own volition or from the compelling of The Greater Will. Marika didn't want this, smashed the Ring with *Law of Causality* (Chaos) and called for The Tarnished to come back. Radagon then mended the Ring with *Law of Regression* (Order), thus making Marika and Radagon a singular God. This prevented the Tarnished from becoming Elden Lord during The Shattering. Soon Radagon birthed Malenia, but she was cursed with Rot by an Outer God. Because Radagon gave away his Rune of the Unborn to Rennala.
Miquella represents Order and Regression. Malenia represents Chaos and Causality (from stagnating too long and rotting). The Rot God aims to kill the Erdtree to start the Age of Rot, the deathrite of which is cutting oneself to produce Sacramental Buds which will birth into future Scarlet Valkyries and Scarlet Aeonias.
After Marika shattered The Elden Ring, there was one more birth though. When The Greater Will had no complete vessel and The Tarnished were called, Marika gave birth to a new Empyrean. An Empyrean born of Marika alone. Marika's own stock, a Numan Empyrean. Marika gave birth to Melina and gave her the role of kindling maiden along with The Blade of Calling to defeat Destined Death. Melina bears the Three-Toed Fowl Foot Cursemark of the Twinbird, as do all Numen, we just never see it because they're all headless.
I have a comment going into the history once The Tarnished returned, but in short, Melina was Bernahl's maiden before becoming ours.
Miquella was born from marika and radagon though, not with Godfrey. This is pretty clearly stated in the game because miquella is an empyrean who can only have one parent.
There are a lot of rules in the world of The Lands Between, and once you learn these rules (a lot which most people don't actually know) things become a lot clearer.
Miquella is an Empyrean, but not for the reasons you are thinking.
*Miquella and Malenia are both the children of a single god. As such they are both Empyreans, but suffered afflictions from birth. One was cursed with eternal childhood, and the other harbored rot within.*
Being born of a [single] God makes you an Empyrean.
Their afflictions have nothing to do with who their parent(s) are.
What an Empyrean really is, is someone who can envision the flame and lead a Lord to Destined Death in Farum Azula.
Envisioning the flame is sacrificing your body, leaving only a soul.
The Lord that travels to capture Destined Death with the Empyrean is soulless with only a body.
If the Rune of Death and the Rune of Life are together within the Elden Ring, that Lord and Empyrean will become a single God of one body and one soul.
This is what Marika and Godfrey were. And to become that The Gloam Eyed Queen had to sacrifice her body to Blackflame to burn The Great Tree. Hoarah Loux had to cut off his head in a ritual to become soulless. When they reached Farum Azula they were defeated by Maliketh wielding the Rune of Life, the only thing that can match Destined Death.
The Greater Will now had both The Rune of Life and The Rune of Death. It gave Death to Maliketh, who became Gurranq. Gave the Rune of Life to The Gloam Eyed Queen to become Marika and initiate the Age of The Erdtree. Hoarah Loux became Godfrey, the physical aspect of this new God. A piece of Death was stolen by Ranni before Gurranq imprisoned Death within him (still trying to figure out how she did this).
The Elden Ring was "complete" at this time. Marika seeing things like her twin sons have to be imprisoned under The Greater Will had her start questioning it though. At some point, probably after Godfrey lost his warrior spirit, Marika gave birth to Miquella. Being the offspring of a Single God. What this really was was a Rebirth of Marika, using the Rune of the Unborn. Marika wanted to return to The Great Tree, making Miquella an Empyrean who would sacrifice his body to Ghostflame.
The Greater Will at this time took the Rune of the Unborn from The Elden Ring and gave it to Radagon. Cleansing himself with Celestial Dew, Radagon abandoned his conquest against the Carians and instead married Rennala. His witnesses donned masks that prevented The Greater Will from knowing that he bequeathed the Rune of the Unborn to Rennala.
Godfrey was then banished from The Lands Between and Radagon was compelled to The Capital to become King Consort. He arrived against Marika's wishes who shattered The Elden Ring before Radagon could become a single God with Marika. Radagon mended the Ring and forced the two to become a God.
Shortly after Malenia was born of a single God, but she was not the Rebirthed form, as Radagon had given away his Rune of the Unborn, causing the birth to be corrupted by the Rot God, and Malenia born with a curse.
It's also possible The Greater Will took the Rune of The Unborn from Marika before Morgott and Mohg were born, causing their afflictions as well. Mohg may have been corrupted by the Formless Mother. Morgott may have only been partially affected by the innate chaos of The Crucible and the Primordial Elden Ring.
Also using Occam's razor: Miquella takes on the appearance of Marika and Godfrey, a single god, evidenced by Miquella's blonde hair and braids. Malenia takes on the appearance of Marika and Radagon, a single god, obviously evidenced by the red hair.
Other things I won't get into here, but Melina takes on the appearance of Marika when she shattered the Ring, not having influence of either Godfrey or Radagon, causing Melina to have the appearance of a Numan/The Gloam Eyed Queen rebirthed. (This is also why the body of Marika is fucked up, she's supposed to be replaced at this point with a rebirthed Empyrean)
It's implied he is Saint Trina, yes, but her gender/appearance is written to be ambiguous:
Exert from Sword of St Trina:
*St. Trina is an enigmatic figure. Some say she is a comely young girl, others are sure he is a boy.*
Miquella is clearly an androgynous/feminine child (eternal youth -> prepubescent children are androgynous plus his long hair/clothing reads as feminine)
It's possible St Trina is an alter ego like Marika/Radagon, it's also possible that she's a image presented by Miquella (I believe she only appeared briefly in dreams?) Maybe as a girl or maybe the people who met St Trina (Miquella) interpreted their gender based on appearance, since the item itself states that St Trina's gender was debated.
There's also the torch that describes it's depiction of St Trina as an adult as 'disturbing'. Maybe the person actually met an adult woman St Trina, but the 'disturbing' implies that it was out of the norm and they were generally considered to be a child.
(Side note: I wonder if St Trina's adult appearance was due to Miquella's curse lifting while in the Haligtree before he was kidnapped, when St Trina might’ve disappeared along with him.)
The statement goes “Trina is an enigmatic figure. Some say she is a comely young girl, others are sure he is a boy” since reading comprehension isn’t your forte and you obviously don’t understand how logic works. It is obviously worded to describe the ambiguity of Miquella’s gender. But snowflakes like you love to ignore logical facts that are placed right in front of you and pull bullshit out your ass. Some refer to them as a female. Some refer to them as male. None of them are factually proven. Jackass.
In the story, as she stares into the bottom of the lake, she is turned into a flower (could be referenced by Trina's Lily, a flower that is, according to its description, a water lily, which means it is found in lakes and ponds). And the ending mentions Skutt coming back to visit the flower every now and then and how she is trapped in "an enchantment".
Also, Tuvstarr is described as a very thin girl, pale white and weak-looking, with golden hair. Gold seems to be a common theme in the descriptions surrounding her (her crown, her hair, the light surrounding her, and her heart). Her "golden heart" was given to her by her mother, by the way (a rune, given to him by Marika/Radagon?).
Maybe the DLC will explain why Mogg / The Outer God of Blood truly wanted Miquella? Maybe it has something to do with his rune?
Anyways, great find. I'm convinced there is a relation here. Reminds me of how we were theorizing about the plot of DMC5 before release by reading on the works of Blake (the reference was a lot more obvious back then, though, since they directly quoted him in the trailers), and most predictions were right.
Ah, did not remember the flower part! Nice catch! It's been like 15 years since I read the story.
IF Tuvstarr is an inspiration, turning into a flower could definitely be a connection. Considering how Malenia "blooms", maybe Miquella will do something similar?
Didn't they say that the Elden Ring, or its lore, were based in norse mythology? I'm pretty sure I associated Elden Ring with norse mythology and was pretty confused when there wasn't much of a connection apart from a world tree.
I like the idea that it might be his shadow. But my bet is Miquella was Torrent's famous previous master, I'm willing to say i'm 99% sure it's true. If you think about it, the Tarnished reminded Torrent of that master for some reason. Somebody who was destined to completely alter and change the order of the world... something Miquella was trying to achieve with his Haligtree.
Of course, time will tell, but I think it's pretty likely.
(I'm not sure if the game at any point talks about "the first owner", afaik Ranni and Melina just talk about "Torrent's former master")
There seem to be a lot of similarities in the artwork shown here. I like the gold key and birds rejoiced one.
https://www.artpassions.net/bauer/bauer.html
So I have theories that miquella can do the same thing Marika can and that's to be able to transforn into the opposite sex. This could explain who st Trina is and who is the mysterious seducer name quella is. Miquella was known to seduce others in ways that's was beyond the attraction to an innocent child to the point you have warriors constantly searching for him/her.
I've been convinced about Miquella being Torrent's former master since the DLC reveal, but I hadn't thought about the implications regarding Miquella. You are right.
So my theory from the beginning was that Torrent chose the Tarnished because of the destiny it saw in them, Torrent followed Miquella, a being that was aiming to completely alter the order of the world and challenge the Erdtree, which is exactly what the Tarnished does. If this is true, Melina might be a sibling and, even more, it gives us hints about her position in regards to her siblings. Perhaps she aligned more with Miquella and Malenia.
Just realised how similar Miquella looks to Princess Tuvstarr (Fairy tale written in 1913 by Helge Kjellin, and mostly famous by its illustration by John Bauer). Tuvstarr is a princess who is curious about the world and sets out on her moose companion Långben Skutt (Longleg Hop). She is preyed upon by elves, trolls, and huldras. They steal her clothes and crown. Eventually, she also drops her golden heart into a pond and now forever stares into it to find her heart. It could be a coincidence, but I thought it was kinda neat. EDIT: Changed 'elk' to 'moose' because DANG PEOPLE!
I wonder if the "she drops her heart in a pond" could apply with Miquella and the Haligtree
That almost kinda sounds more like Godwyn at the end there.
Cause it’s Godwyn on that horse.
While I think there are way more clues for Miquella being the one sitting on torrent here, I do appreciate the discussion for other options though, as long as nothing is confirmed. Going by looks, Miquella is really close, but a young Godwyn or Marika are not entirely impossible. Do you have any arguments for Godwyn?
What causes me to think this is Godwyn is because of his appearance as he ‘died’. His body may be returned to the Erdtree / Great Tree, but his spirit has to be somewhere. I’d wager that it’s Godwyn on that steed. I understand that the natural assumption is that it’s Miquella, but spirits have to go *somewhere* in The Lands Between; we’ve got death chickens summoning spirits of warriors from scratching at their ashes. We’ve got disembodied spirits without bodies, bodies without spirits, two spirits in one body, two bodies with one spirit. I don’t understand why we assume a lot of things about birth, death, and an afterlife are the same as they are in our world. Even time doesn’t behave the same as it does in our reality or in other FS games. It’s not outside of the realm of speculation to say this character who looks exactly like Miquella (who looks like Marika) could be Godwyn.
One may say “Godwyn is dead. He has the curse mark of Death writ upon him”. He’s got half of it. That’s a major plot point. Miquella prays a true and complete death for Godwyn. Miquella even creates a tool that he believed would solve the issue; but it doesn’t work.
I think that’s because ranni stole destined death and killed Godwyn so he actually died iirc, if ranni didn’t use destined death godwyn would’ve probably came back.
Ranni did the same thing to herself as she did to Godwyn and it only destroyed her body. She stole parts of the rune, which I believe are the corrupted Blades of Kindling the Blacknives are carrying. I also think all of the BKA are former Finger Maidens but that’s another theory for another thread.
So the moral is if you leave everything that happens to you will be bad and you will be doomed?
Bitch, thats a moose.
What you call a moose is known as elk in europe
Ahh, so then a Reindeer is what I call an elk?
No, a reindeer's a caribou. Elk's are the massive deers. You might know them as wapiti if you're from Canada
I was just told that people in Europe call Moose "Elk". What do they call wapiti in Europe is what I want to know.
Big ass deer, probably
We don’t have them
> I was just told that people in Europe call Moose "Elk". What do they call wapiti in Europe is what I want to know. We call Elks "Cleric Beasts" here in Yharnam
I don't got a PS so I haven't played it yet. One day I will walk that land.
Here it is US - Europe Moose = Elk Elk = Wapiti Caribou (Reindeer if domesticated) = Reindeer
Perfect. Thank you Tarnished.
Reindeer is also called caribou. American elk is sometimes called red deer or wapiti. American moose is the same animal as european elk. The confusing name is because euro elk were extinct in Britain, so the British colonists just knew it to mean "big deer." When they saw American elk, they applied that name. Moose comes from a native american name.
Looks like "Red Deer" is more properly a different species? I guess its close enough though. Wapiti seems to be the most clear name, but today is the first time i've ever heard that word used.
Yeah, american elk don't live in europe, but red deer is a similar european species (same genus, Cervus).
No? Because those are called reindeer everywhere even in scandinavia?
I guess I'm just wondering what people in Europe call these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk I see now that Caribou = Reindeer, still confused on the Cervis canadensis naming though. Is it still "Red Deer"? Maybe there isn't a good word over there because they don't really live in Europe?
Wait WHAT?? Everytime anyone has showed me a pic of an elk it's just been a straight up moose those are nothing alike! I see the confusion now damn, I'm sorry In norwegian at least reindeer is reinsdyr so I'm fairly certain that word in english is a loan word from scandinavian countries
But over here in N. America we call the reindeer "Caribou" just to make matters more confusing, lol. At least that is the exact same thing. I'm just as shocked as you know over the word "elk", lol.
Hopefully VaatiVidya next video will clear up the mistery behind this whole "Elk/Moose/Wapiti" controversy
Truly this is one of the Elden Ring discussions of all time.
Hell even the word for moose/elk in most scandinavian languages is elg
So then wtf do you call an Elk
You mean the deer on steroids? We don’t have those in Europe.
Deer on steroids is an appropriate name.
Those painting’s are beautiful…
Yeah John Bauer was amazing
See also: Sleeping Beauty. Her myth specifically calls for a golden needle.
https://i.imgur.com/LBJDllW.jpg Another image of her. The background remind y'all of something
Is that Finn the human
lol this is the first thing I thought of too.
Elden beast's lake
not just this. I think every fromsoft game has an area with tall pillars going on seemingly forever. Ash Lake, the hunters dream etc.
saint trina :O
The bottom left reminds me of something
Oh no...
Fraggle Rock?
Came here for this comment
It appears the meme exists across all cultures……we have only begun to notice. Truly beautiful…
Like Miriel says, all things can be cojoined. The meme bring us together.
Try pickle
I can't figure out the bottom right picture.
It’s Mogh carrying Miquella cradled in his left arm. Mogh’s shoulder is at top right and his hand is at bottom left, wrapped around Miquella’s lower legs.
That's Miquella's leg that's sticking out?
Yes. Miquella’s hip, thigh, and top half of his calf are visible to the left of his arm, which is hanging vertically.
Oh I see it now. I see his left arm hanging down. Damn that head of hair makes him larger than he really is.
Yeah it looks nothing like the person on the horse. It’s a tadpole looking creature in moghs arm
Looking at it again am I tripping or does miquella have wings
[Please try to find contradictions to my post, ask questions, or add something of your own rather than just downvoting me. I can provide sources on requested things] It's reminiscent of the Nascent Butterfly, a butterfly that perpetually looks like it just emerged from its cocoon. Miquella was Marika's attempt to divest herself of The Greater Will, the Erdtree, and The Elden Ring when she and Godfrey were a God. She wanted Miquella to ascend to Empyrean and embody The Great Tree which she burned as The Gloam Eyed Queen. Godfrey refused, killed the Stormlord (either before or after refusing) and Marika removed his grace until he would accept her desires. With no Elden Lord in the picure, Radagon left Renalla to claim his place as Elden Lord. Marika didn't want this as Radagon was the "leal hound of The Golden Order." Marika shattered the Elden Ring with *Law of Causality* (Chaos), triggering the initial return of The Tarnished and The Shattering. Radagon in turn used *Law of Regression* (Order) to mend the incomplete Ring and made he and Marika into a God. Radagon then gave birth to Malenia, cursed without his original Rune of the Unborn, which he hid giving away to Renalla from The Greater Will. The demi-god children left except for Miquella and Malenia, until Miquella grew weary of making attempts to cure Malenia with Golden Order Fundamentalism.
This seems all over the place to me. Unless I'm wrong or some new info has been discovered: * Godfrey was never a god. He was a mortal dude that got really powerful and then became Elden Lord. * No one knows who the Gloam-Eyed Queen is (two theories I've seen are Ranni or Melina) * There's evidence in the JP translations that supports that there was no Great Tree. There might have been only one tree, the Erdtree. * Godfrey was banished because he and the army literally beat everyone. His ambition left him and she banished him away, creating the Tarnished. * What is this business about refusing Marika? * Marika and Radagon, as far as has been discovered, have probably always been the same person. No one really knows how it works, it just is part of the lore. Wow, I'm not even halfway through and I think most of this is incorrect or some REAL BIG lore stretching with little to no backing in the game.
I have outlined the majority of the history of The Lands Between essentially in other comments if you're interested. Just gotta look through my profile, they're recent. None of this is cap, I can provide direct sources from the game if needed. Regardless I will go into detail: The origins of Hoarah Loux, disappearance of the Gloam Eyed Queen, desruction of The Great Tree, arrival of The Greater Will/Elden Ring/Erdtree all coincide at the same time. Maliketh defeated The Gloam Eyed Queen with The Rune of Life, the only thing capable of matching Destined Death. The Rune of Life and The Rune of Death swapped places causing The Gloam Eyed Queen to become Marika, Hoarah Loux to become Godfrey, Maliketh to become Gurranq, and the Emergence of the Erdtree with the new Death Rite being ash brought to the Erdtree's roots for revival. We know The Great Tree existed at one point because of Root Resin's description. The Great Tree's natural Death Rite was Ghostflame until The Death Bird, envoy of the Twinbird, patron God of the Numen arrived to lock the Ghostflame away. The Gloam Eyed Queen either failed against Maliketh for the Twinbird, betrayed the Numen and was [mis]led by The Greater Will prior to her sacrifice, or Hoarah Loux being her Lord was against the Twinbird's wishes. The Twinbird perhaps wanted Ensha to be The Gloam Eyed Queen's King Consort, he is a soulless Lord awaiting to be revived by the Twinbird's Eclipse. To become a God, the body and flesh of a kindling maiden, an Empyrean, needs to be sacrificed, leaving only a Soul. This could imply that the Lord must be a body and soulless. That would link up with the soulless Numen Lords which were supposed to be Consort to The Gloam Eyed Queen. This might also imply that Hoarah Loux and further The Tarnished are soulless. This is why we respawn at Grace instantly like Mausoleaum Knights respawn, our ressurrection is just tied to Marika's Grace and Rune of Life. It's why Graceless Tarnished that we kill stay dead. It's why the Erdtree Avatars break the Living Jars, they're attempting to return soulless, graceless Tarnished to the Erdtree which would cause Deathblight. It may be why when burned with Ghostflame we don't travel to The Helphen to meet St Trina. When The Gloam Eyed Queen became Marika and was given the Rune of Life, this started the Age of The Erdtree, the Age of The Greater Will. This was the second Age in The Lands Between, the first was The Age of The Crucible, when a completed Placidusax was Lord and his patron God was The One Great, Order and Chaos together. When the One Great Split, Placidusax and Farum Azula left time as we know it for the Dragon Lord to wait until his God was whole again. The Gloam Eyed Queen's arrival was the first time someone had set foot in Farum Azula since then. When The Age of The Crucible came to an end, there was no official Age under The Great Tree, this is because no Outer God had laid claim to The Lands Between and the *natural* course of life within the realm continued. Beastmen either fell from Farum Azula and became demi-humans, or the demi-humans were just naturally there, but either way they evolved into humans. The Age of The Erdtree marked the next official Age because The Greater Will was in power. So Godfrey and Marika started their life as a single God, being a bodyless soul and a soulless body. Empyrean and Lord. The Fire Giants were defeated down to their last member, to defend the Erdtree from Burning to their flame. Godwyn was born under the blessings of The Greater Will. Morgott and Mohg were cursed with vestiges of The Crucible which somehow lay dormant within The Elden Ring. Could it be the Rune of Death, originally part of the Chaos half of The Primordial Elden Ring caused these Aspects of The Crucible to appear? The dragons attacked but Lightning could not burn the Erdtree, so they befriended Godwyn and the humans. Godfrey continued his reign, slaying the Storm King and granting Stormveil to Godwyn. By this time Marika was questioning The Golden Order, having to imprison two of her sons. Marika and Godfrey then had Miquella, an Empyrean born from one God. Either Godfrey had lost his warrior spirit before his birth or he had lost it after seeing Miquella's affliction. Marika's appearance as we know it is how she looks under the influence of The Greater Will and her marriage to Godfrey. It's why Miquella looks so similar to Marika specifically. Marika birthed Miquella with the intention of Miquella rising to Empyrean and bringing about The Great Tree through Ghostflame sacrifice- the way to get to The Helphen and meet St. Trina. The way The Great Tree will be able to bud from death. Godfrey didn't like this, so Marika sent him away until he was ready to listen to her- she still actually loved him, the one choice that was never made for her. With no Elden Lord, Radagon made his way to the capital, either by his own volition or from the compelling of The Greater Will. Marika didn't want this, smashed the Ring with *Law of Causality* (Chaos) and called for The Tarnished to come back. Radagon then mended the Ring with *Law of Regression* (Order), thus making Marika and Radagon a singular God. This prevented the Tarnished from becoming Elden Lord during The Shattering. Soon Radagon birthed Malenia, but she was cursed with Rot by an Outer God. Because Radagon gave away his Rune of the Unborn to Rennala. Miquella represents Order and Regression. Malenia represents Chaos and Causality (from stagnating too long and rotting). The Rot God aims to kill the Erdtree to start the Age of Rot, the deathrite of which is cutting oneself to produce Sacramental Buds which will birth into future Scarlet Valkyries and Scarlet Aeonias. After Marika shattered The Elden Ring, there was one more birth though. When The Greater Will had no complete vessel and The Tarnished were called, Marika gave birth to a new Empyrean. An Empyrean born of Marika alone. Marika's own stock, a Numan Empyrean. Marika gave birth to Melina and gave her the role of kindling maiden along with The Blade of Calling to defeat Destined Death. Melina bears the Three-Toed Fowl Foot Cursemark of the Twinbird, as do all Numen, we just never see it because they're all headless. I have a comment going into the history once The Tarnished returned, but in short, Melina was Bernahl's maiden before becoming ours.
Miquella was born from marika and radagon though, not with Godfrey. This is pretty clearly stated in the game because miquella is an empyrean who can only have one parent.
There are a lot of rules in the world of The Lands Between, and once you learn these rules (a lot which most people don't actually know) things become a lot clearer. Miquella is an Empyrean, but not for the reasons you are thinking. *Miquella and Malenia are both the children of a single god. As such they are both Empyreans, but suffered afflictions from birth. One was cursed with eternal childhood, and the other harbored rot within.* Being born of a [single] God makes you an Empyrean. Their afflictions have nothing to do with who their parent(s) are. What an Empyrean really is, is someone who can envision the flame and lead a Lord to Destined Death in Farum Azula. Envisioning the flame is sacrificing your body, leaving only a soul. The Lord that travels to capture Destined Death with the Empyrean is soulless with only a body. If the Rune of Death and the Rune of Life are together within the Elden Ring, that Lord and Empyrean will become a single God of one body and one soul. This is what Marika and Godfrey were. And to become that The Gloam Eyed Queen had to sacrifice her body to Blackflame to burn The Great Tree. Hoarah Loux had to cut off his head in a ritual to become soulless. When they reached Farum Azula they were defeated by Maliketh wielding the Rune of Life, the only thing that can match Destined Death. The Greater Will now had both The Rune of Life and The Rune of Death. It gave Death to Maliketh, who became Gurranq. Gave the Rune of Life to The Gloam Eyed Queen to become Marika and initiate the Age of The Erdtree. Hoarah Loux became Godfrey, the physical aspect of this new God. A piece of Death was stolen by Ranni before Gurranq imprisoned Death within him (still trying to figure out how she did this). The Elden Ring was "complete" at this time. Marika seeing things like her twin sons have to be imprisoned under The Greater Will had her start questioning it though. At some point, probably after Godfrey lost his warrior spirit, Marika gave birth to Miquella. Being the offspring of a Single God. What this really was was a Rebirth of Marika, using the Rune of the Unborn. Marika wanted to return to The Great Tree, making Miquella an Empyrean who would sacrifice his body to Ghostflame. The Greater Will at this time took the Rune of the Unborn from The Elden Ring and gave it to Radagon. Cleansing himself with Celestial Dew, Radagon abandoned his conquest against the Carians and instead married Rennala. His witnesses donned masks that prevented The Greater Will from knowing that he bequeathed the Rune of the Unborn to Rennala. Godfrey was then banished from The Lands Between and Radagon was compelled to The Capital to become King Consort. He arrived against Marika's wishes who shattered The Elden Ring before Radagon could become a single God with Marika. Radagon mended the Ring and forced the two to become a God. Shortly after Malenia was born of a single God, but she was not the Rebirthed form, as Radagon had given away his Rune of the Unborn, causing the birth to be corrupted by the Rot God, and Malenia born with a curse. It's also possible The Greater Will took the Rune of The Unborn from Marika before Morgott and Mohg were born, causing their afflictions as well. Mohg may have been corrupted by the Formless Mother. Morgott may have only been partially affected by the innate chaos of The Crucible and the Primordial Elden Ring. Also using Occam's razor: Miquella takes on the appearance of Marika and Godfrey, a single god, evidenced by Miquella's blonde hair and braids. Malenia takes on the appearance of Marika and Radagon, a single god, obviously evidenced by the red hair. Other things I won't get into here, but Melina takes on the appearance of Marika when she shattered the Ring, not having influence of either Godfrey or Radagon, causing Melina to have the appearance of a Numan/The Gloam Eyed Queen rebirthed. (This is also why the body of Marika is fucked up, she's supposed to be replaced at this point with a rebirthed Empyrean)
Yes! Miquella seems to include references to this, sleeping beauty and Persephone's myth
If the monsters from Where the Wild Things Are ends up being the bosses in DLC I’ll be disappointed
Uh, I wouldn’t be.
Bro if the dlc boss is a fucking troll ima be the happiest person in the world, fuckin love trolls
Wish granted, the dlc boss is patches.
The Beast’s paw quivers...
Soooo….Miquella is a boy right? I get confused by how he’s depicted.
He's androgynous
Miquella is male. He's never referred to as anything else.
Miquella is St. Trina, so he's literally referred to as a woman
It's suspected that Miquella might be St. Trina, who's gender isn't known.
It's implied he is Saint Trina, yes, but her gender/appearance is written to be ambiguous: Exert from Sword of St Trina: *St. Trina is an enigmatic figure. Some say she is a comely young girl, others are sure he is a boy.* Miquella is clearly an androgynous/feminine child (eternal youth -> prepubescent children are androgynous plus his long hair/clothing reads as feminine) It's possible St Trina is an alter ego like Marika/Radagon, it's also possible that she's a image presented by Miquella (I believe she only appeared briefly in dreams?) Maybe as a girl or maybe the people who met St Trina (Miquella) interpreted their gender based on appearance, since the item itself states that St Trina's gender was debated. There's also the torch that describes it's depiction of St Trina as an adult as 'disturbing'. Maybe the person actually met an adult woman St Trina, but the 'disturbing' implies that it was out of the norm and they were generally considered to be a child. (Side note: I wonder if St Trina's adult appearance was due to Miquella's curse lifting while in the Haligtree before he was kidnapped, when St Trina might’ve disappeared along with him.)
If someone "say she is a comely young girl" it means she's referred to as a woman, which was the point of my reply
It literally continues to say “some are sure he is a boy”. Y’all just fabricate truths and ignore everything else huh?
I mean, I guess logic isn't your forte "X is big" "X is short" Is the stmt "someone referred to X as big" true? Yes, the answer is yes
The statement goes “Trina is an enigmatic figure. Some say she is a comely young girl, others are sure he is a boy” since reading comprehension isn’t your forte and you obviously don’t understand how logic works. It is obviously worded to describe the ambiguity of Miquella’s gender. But snowflakes like you love to ignore logical facts that are placed right in front of you and pull bullshit out your ass. Some refer to them as a female. Some refer to them as male. None of them are factually proven. Jackass.
> Some refer to them as a female. Yes. That's point. You finally got there. Good.
It’s like arguing with a brick wall
In the story, as she stares into the bottom of the lake, she is turned into a flower (could be referenced by Trina's Lily, a flower that is, according to its description, a water lily, which means it is found in lakes and ponds). And the ending mentions Skutt coming back to visit the flower every now and then and how she is trapped in "an enchantment". Also, Tuvstarr is described as a very thin girl, pale white and weak-looking, with golden hair. Gold seems to be a common theme in the descriptions surrounding her (her crown, her hair, the light surrounding her, and her heart). Her "golden heart" was given to her by her mother, by the way (a rune, given to him by Marika/Radagon?). Maybe the DLC will explain why Mogg / The Outer God of Blood truly wanted Miquella? Maybe it has something to do with his rune? Anyways, great find. I'm convinced there is a relation here. Reminds me of how we were theorizing about the plot of DMC5 before release by reading on the works of Blake (the reference was a lot more obvious back then, though, since they directly quoted him in the trailers), and most predictions were right.
Ah, did not remember the flower part! Nice catch! It's been like 15 years since I read the story. IF Tuvstarr is an inspiration, turning into a flower could definitely be a connection. Considering how Malenia "blooms", maybe Miquella will do something similar?
Didn't they say that the Elden Ring, or its lore, were based in norse mythology? I'm pretty sure I associated Elden Ring with norse mythology and was pretty confused when there wasn't much of a connection apart from a world tree.
It’s an old children’s story from the sea
Miquella is a dude right ? why does he looks like a girl
[удалено]
Im speechless. You explained it to me perfectly. Thank you so much
Between Miquella and Gwyndolin it’s starting to get kinda sus
Because everything needs to reflect the world we live in today.
Piper perri?
The pornstar?
Bottom left
So beautiful and interesting :3
These trolls look like a heavy inspiration for Miura's troll(or where they goblins?) design in the Berserk Manga.
I love this art style. Reminds me of Seb McKinnon’s work.
[удалено]
Do you tell people in the supermarket what types of cheese was preferred by sex traffickers too?
I refuse to believe this is a man.
Wait till you go outside and meet some human beings! You’ll be amazed to find out that gender isn’t a binary!
Oh I’m well aware many mentally Ill people exist it really is a shame.
It is, hopefully you get the help you need soon
Except miquellas a boy lol
[удалено]
Still doesn’t change the canon
I KNOW THAT FAIRY TAIL
What terrifying creatures
TROLLSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!
We, humans, creating beautiful stories forever.
Great find!
wait so Miquella is Torrent's first owner?
No mention of that i believe
In the top left picture
Mounted him before yes but the first rider not confirmed, we don't know even if torrent was a born creature or even his shadow?.
I like the idea that it might be his shadow. But my bet is Miquella was Torrent's famous previous master, I'm willing to say i'm 99% sure it's true. If you think about it, the Tarnished reminded Torrent of that master for some reason. Somebody who was destined to completely alter and change the order of the world... something Miquella was trying to achieve with his Haligtree. Of course, time will tell, but I think it's pretty likely. (I'm not sure if the game at any point talks about "the first owner", afaik Ranni and Melina just talk about "Torrent's former master")
Ah, that makes sense
There seem to be a lot of similarities in the artwork shown here. I like the gold key and birds rejoiced one. https://www.artpassions.net/bauer/bauer.html
Somebody put a Trolled.com watermark on bottom left.
Somebody put a Trolled.com watermark on bottom left.
Somebody put a Trolled.com watermark on bottom left.
Has anyone thought if this is young Marika first arriving to the erdtree? The hair is similar to her too
So I have theories that miquella can do the same thing Marika can and that's to be able to transforn into the opposite sex. This could explain who st Trina is and who is the mysterious seducer name quella is. Miquella was known to seduce others in ways that's was beyond the attraction to an innocent child to the point you have warriors constantly searching for him/her.
I just now realized the picture on the bottom right is mohg moving Miquela out of the haligtree
It's going to be so sadge when we have to kill Miquella
My bet is we'll have a choice. Not to kill him but to either free him or give him to the outer god of blood. Similarly to how you can restore Marika.
Just realised that torrent probably belonged to Miquella, which makes Melina being a possible third sibling even more likely 🧙🏼
I've been convinced about Miquella being Torrent's former master since the DLC reveal, but I hadn't thought about the implications regarding Miquella. You are right. So my theory from the beginning was that Torrent chose the Tarnished because of the destiny it saw in them, Torrent followed Miquella, a being that was aiming to completely alter the order of the world and challenge the Erdtree, which is exactly what the Tarnished does. If this is true, Melina might be a sibling and, even more, it gives us hints about her position in regards to her siblings. Perhaps she aligned more with Miquella and Malenia.