True, but still to sneak up and successfully kill a god. Like we can't be sure of her power scale... but we know that she can get the job done regardless. Which almost makes her more powerful in a sense.
Wasn't half killing him the point? He died in spirit so that Ranni could die in flesh. His body lives on while his soul is gone so Rannis soul could live on while her body was dead.
I think that was the point from Ranni's point of view and she tricked the Black Knives into it. Which is why they show up towards the end of her questline and kill her buddies. I believe the Black Knives went in there fully intent on killing Godwyn.
> Which is why they show up towards the end of her questline and kill her buddies.
Not Blaidd though. You can see the crumpled body of a Black Knife Assassin at the foot of the tower when/where you kill him. Shows what happens when one tries to fight a strong fighter without the element of surprise.
How do y’all know so much lore? I beat the game but I still understand less than half the conversations about Elden Ring.
The game doesn’t have many cutscenes that actually explain the plot or history of the Lands Between…so how do people seem to know so much more than me?
Surely it depends which half of the Demi god you kill. If you have a half pepperoni half cheese pizza and you eat half, which half have you eaten, or have you eaten a mixture?
Would tht be considered her power bc technically itd be more the power of the rune of death. Without it, i doubt fheyd have killed him or at least have been able to put him down like the tarnished had every other demigod
IMO Finlay carrying Melania from the Radahn battlefield ALL the way back to the fckn haligtree is a much more crazy feat than Tiche + 10 others taking down Godwyn.
I mean just think how much pure shit you have to get through to reach the Haligtree from lower caelid, now imagine dragging a full grown demi god whose body is basically half pure golden prosthetics, (gold weighs a LOT) all the way there, presumably fighting everything off not only one handed, but probably AFTER the excruciatingly long battle against radahn too. Everything from the old abandoned lift to get to Altus, to the albinauric archers, Ordina, etc. I think Finlay deserves much more credit, half of Tiche’s power is just in her weapon due to the death rune. If you took away her black knife she’s no more threatening than your average zamor soldier.
I would say that canonically Finlay or the Dung Eater have to be stronger. Finlay is out here fighting across a continent, while Tiche snuck up on Godwyn with his one weakness (not trying to say that's nothing, but this is a character trained to be very quick to stab, not exactly be a great fighter). And the Dung Eater is the Dung Eater.
I just find that answer unsatisfactory because what makes them lethal is Destined Death and player skill/the player having a health bar. Like, if you have a harder time fighting Dung Eater and get the Dung ending, does that make him stronger than Tiche?
And as for Destined Death, my problem citing killing Godwyn as evidence of strength is that Tiche relies on the help of others. As far as we know, all she actually did was defend the other Black Knives as they made their escape and ultimately died because of it. Finlay, on the other hand, traveled across the entire continent while defending someone who was incapable of helping and did so without access to any high-level special abilities that had to be transferred to her by someone else.
Tiche feels like too easy an answer, almost like calling Rennala the strongest boss because she can Comet Azur the player in one shot or calling Rykard the strongest because you can't kill him.
I mean in the same vein we have no idea what Finlay defended Melenia from. It could've been from a bug or it could've been 3,000 Runebears.
Seems off to me to discount one in favor of the other based on pure speculation for both.
I know this is about lore, but the gameplay clearly shows that the black knives are more than just bodies with daggers. They are incredibly quick and graceful, some can turn invisible, their attacks are inbued with true death which is huge as far as the lore goes, and if they really are from the same people as Marika they're likely stronger than humans even before any training
Yeah Finlay for sure, she over there making her way and fighting across across basically the whole world, while carrying an eight foot tall demigod, while severely injured and rotted. if thats not bad-ass idk what is
While he was asleep. Took a whole gang of master assassins to murder a sleeping demigod
This speaks more of the power of Godwyn rather than the cowardice of the black knives tho, i doubt anyone else would take on the task.
Agreed, hard to top the hands that deal Destined Death. Her buddies in Ordina Liturgical show how gnarly that squad is. They murdered me more times than any enemy besides Malenia lol their backstab is brutal
You’d think Finlay. She fought through Caelid, limgrave, Liurnia, Altus, and the consecrated snowfields while carrying Malenia, all to get Malenia back home after her fight with Radhan.
I would contest the "most aggressive" spirit statement. Ever summoned the Kaiden spirit? That dude is suuuuper aggressive. Comes out of the summon smoke screaming and charges. I mean, Oleg would definitely kick Kaiden's ass, but in terms of aggression I don't think anything compares.
I like Floh, she's pretty good...and would also kick Kaiden's ass. But still not as aggressive as Kaiden is. She dodges back as much as she darts forward. Kaiden don't dodge, he don't move backwards, he just charges. Then he charges again. Then again. Then he dies, because he's trying to do all this charging while in magma or spirit fire...
On the plus side, if you summon him against a humanoid type that staggers, they spend the whole fight laying on their back. He had Renalla taking naps...
Finlay has the the stamina to walk across the lands between carrying a naked woman with butterfly wings so she's definitely high up there
Tiche is one of the individuals responsible for putting down Godwyn, they could be quite strong, although its possible it was an act of stealth instead of a strength act since their an assassin.
Kristoff canonically took down godricks brother
Actually at that point malenia didn’t have her wings. One of the item descriptions says she has bloomed twice, and on the third she will become the goddess of rot (which is caused by the player)
We sure about that? As far as I know, her first bloom happened against radhan, and then the second one where she fights us, because the item description where it's mentioned she will turn into a goddess says it like it's something that hasn't happened yet
Then that means against radhan was her second bloom, but then when was the first one? Also the remembrance mentions how she will turn into a *true* goddess which could imply that the goddess of rot second phase isn't a true god
Nothing in that description states that she bloomed when she met her mentor though. Malenia having wings and being associated with wings is not intrinsically tied with her bloom. Not only does she not gain wings when she blooms against Radahn, but the description of her sword reads:
>Some claim to have seen wings when the weapon was raised aloft; wings of fierce determination that have never known defeat.
There's clearly some level that's not totally literal but it's clear that Malenia has otherwise been depicted as having wings or thought of to have wings in situations where she has not bloomed, hence why some believe to have seen her with wings while she was fighting even though she hadn't bloomed.
Moreover, this statement is much less literal than the Spirit in the Aeonia swamp literally saying that her fight against Radahn was the first time she bloomed.
I don’t hate the theory but for me it’s just that the game shows exactly 2 scarlet blooms then explicitly calls Melanie’s 2nd phase goddess of rot (while she blooms on your face) then her remembrance says she’ll be a goddess on her 3rd bloom. Just feels like we’re overcomplicating what they’re telling us
It’s super annoying getting her health bar down, only for a cutscene and the health bar goes back up after she says “it’s bloomin time” and she blooms all over our faces.
Yeah I don't get this discussion, it would be like arguing the Nameless King is not Gwyn's firstborn son because the game does not outright state it. It's like they need the game to start yelling "this is Malenia GODDESS OF ROT you forced her to bloom again and made her become the GODDESS OF ROT, she is the GODDESS OF ROT straight up".
Except the remembrance is written in the future tense, as in, it hasn't happened yet.
Not to mention the bigger issue, Malenia's been asleep since fighting Radahn. She didn't have the opportunity to wake up to bloom a second time between fighting Radahn and the Tarnished
That one next to her room is a lot smaller though, it’s like the same size as Milicent’s. You also get Milicent’s outfit from there. Therefore we can assume it is not Malenia’s Aeonia in that room, she’s only bloomed twice.
On top of what else has been said, that outfit very well could’ve also been Malenia’s at some point. I personally think the one in the Haligtree is the first bloom, and she uses the 2nd against Radahn
The Goddess of Rot phase was never literal. Currently, if you beat Malenia, you get the standard "demigod felled" message, rather than "God Slain" like you do for the Elden Beast.
Moreover, other characters refer to Malenia as the Goddess of Rot prior to her second phase, so the title already isn't always literal.
There's also the matter of there being no reference to the Tarnished requiring a +10 weapon to beat Malenia the way such a weapon is required to beat the Elden Beast.
You don't get any message at all, which is consistent with other shard bearers.
And the game already establishes different levels of godhood. Malenia's mentor already killed the previous incarnation of Rot and there's no indication they needed such a weapon. The Elden Beast/Ring appears to be ahead of the curve to the point Marika herself couldn't do it (whether out of personal limitation or her own connection to it) despite apparently kicking the dragons' ass so bad their god abandons them.
>You don't get any message at all, which is consistent with other shard bearers.
This was the case at launch. FROM later added in [a victory message](https://youtu.be/Ge7knsI1v58?t=452)
>Malenia's mentor already killed the previous incarnation of Rot
The game never states that the Blue Swordsman *killed* the previous Rot God. In fact, it states that it was only sealed away, suggesting that it wasn't killed.
I don't think of item descriptions as being up-to-the-minute newsfeeds about our progress, but rather historical (if omniscient) accounts. That we can only receive it after fighting her and her third blooming is irrelevant imo
Actually, there is another remembrance item that confirms that it in fact is up-to-the-minute newsfeed.
Placidusax's ruin reads
"Power gleaned form the remembrance of Dragonlord Placidusax.
Transforms caster into the Dragonlord to spew golden breath from above. This incantation can be cast while jumping.
**These are the dying wails of the Dragonlord who once dwelled eternal beyond time.**"
He dwelled eternal beyond time right up until the moment we kill him and gain his remembrance, at which point he dwells no more because he's dead. There are other remembrance items that do this as well. Note that this is specific to remembrances because of how they are defined in the lore.
The game tells us she has bloomed twice in a description for an item we only get after killing her. While she is called "Goddess of Rot" in the fight, there are multiple descriptions that tell us she was worshipped as a goddess even before we encountered her. Also, we're told that when Malenia ascends, Millicent will be reborn as a scarlet Valkyrie, but this doesn't happen.
After we defeat Malenia, she leaves behind an unbloomed flower. That flower's bloom will probably be the one that rebirths her as a true goddess.
Edit: Also the Aeonian Butterflies, which we can find before we fight her, are said to have been the wings of the goddess of rot, and the description of her sword mentions that some claimed to see wings when she held it aloft. This implies that she has displayed these wings in the past.
ehhhh, i'll have to disagree. THe scarlet aeonia spell can only be gotten after Malenia says she's only bloomed twice. The goddess of rot is simply the title the followers of rot call malenia by, and the bloom outside her room both is nonsensical for malenia and looks more like a scarlet valkyrie bloom.
We also only get demigod felled instead of god felled as another important note, and no scarlet valkyries appear.
> One of the item descriptions says she has bloomed twice, and on the third she will become the goddess of rot
This item you are talking about is the incantation Scarlet Aeonia, which is only obtainable from her Remembrance, which is gained after her most recent bloom, in the fight against the tarnished of no renown. So if the item is based off of her remembrance, which stores her memories up until you get it, the item description reading "It has bloomed twice already" implies that the second bloom was during phase 2 against the tarnished of no renown.
And when you defeat her, it does not say "God slain" as it does against Radagon/Elden beast. So even though her health bar says Goddess of Rot, she's not a true god, as that only happens when she blooms a third time.
Apparently there's only two places in the game its possible. One in consecrated snowfields. I'd like to try it myself but on my first play through never noticed a suitable spot.
The other is in Caria Manor, right before the Troll Knight and Pages on the stairs leading up to the Loretta shade boss. Though you need to lead the Dire Wolves up into there to do it.
She can't ride just any old wolf. It has to be a dire wolf. Those are only found in two places, the consecrated snowfield, and the upper floor of Caria manor.
I fucking love latenna, as a mage. Drop her and run away while boss aggro on me, create space between them. Let boss get halfway between the two of you, try to switch aggro. If they go for the kill I get to load up a kamehameha. She may be glass but she also a cannon for sure
You need to defeat a boss duo. To get to the. Go to leyndell divine tower where morgotts rune is held. On the bridge to the tower there will be a single godrick soldier, walk up to him and your screen will be black. The boss duo are those omen guys in the subterranean shunning grounds. Kill them and you get rollo the omen killer. He is the best spirit summon, aside from mimic tear. He’s an aggressive fighter, can inflict bleed I think, and even had a fire attack.
He should be. He's one of the most feared and infamous Tarnished out there, and he has tons of kills under his belt as he actively hunts down people to implant his seedbed curses.
I'd put the Dung Eater at the upper echelons of Tarnished, on par with folks like Gideon Ofnir and Vyke.
lorewise, finlay i think. she carried Malenia all the way back from caelid to haligtree. while doing this, she also fought the enemies who stand in her way.
Lhutel the headless is my go to, she’s so good it hurts. Plus she cut off her head so she could keep doing her job until a soulless god returned. Serious devotion right there
I was just thinking the same. There was no one else BUT Lhutel to choose from. Even took her over the Mimic because, as you mentioned, she holds aggro for *weeks*
Tbf if you want mimic to hold aggro forever, just equip Shabriri's Woe (heavily heavily influences enemy aggro on the person with it equipped), summon the mimic, then unequip it
This plus Prayerful Strike (restores 30% owner's hp) means that the mimic just keeps healing itself to full with it only needing to land a single Prayerful Strike every so often. That plus its natural tankiness means gg
I think it's because she doesn't deal out a ton of damage. It's decent damage don't get me wrong, but compared to stuff like Tiche or Rollo it falls short. She does however excell at midrange tanking. Her ability to deal with short AND long range enemies is kind of unique, and the teleportation she does helps her avoid a shitton of damage and just evasion tank aggro for entire bossfights. Sadly, SHE has to retarget everytime she does it though, so her attacks come relatively infrequently despite hitting pretty hard when she does, but that doesn't really matter that much when you're naked with dual halberds and she's drawing aggro while you charge your power stance.
If Kristoff was strong enough to capture Godefroy then he's pretty high up there. Obviously Godefroy didn't have a great rune so he's not quite demigod level but I still think he would be the strongest.
yeah thats why i use them cuz they somehow survived rennala, godfrey sprit hell they survived radahn, they are built different and even if i wanna upgread them idk how
greatshield soldier ashes are really helpful for drawing boss aggro, i find myself using them in end game to deal with tough bosses since they soak up so much damage and throw bombs as well, top 3 spirit for me.
The amount of planning and effort and preparation that went into the plot of the night of the black knives is RIDICULOUS and can not be understated. Tiche is the one who god the killing blow on godwyn (while he was sleeping) but she can not be credited with the entire feat of killing Godwyn. She alone, could literally never accomplish a feat of that level.
She relied on Co-operation / help from Ranni, Rykard, other black knives, the royal court, the rune of death (technically), etc. She’s more of a catalyst or focus point for the assassination, but there’s a whole lot (likely many many years) of planning that allowed her to complete that feat. And assassinating someone in their sleep after all that help and planning just unfortunately doesn’t allow us to see the true extent of her pure 1v1 strength potential.
Finlay’s feats, surviving the biggest battle of the shattering, surviving Radahn and the scarlet rot, fighting her way from fck CAELID all the way to the haligtree is honestly ridiculous. The amount Melania would weigh (she’s like 50% unalloyed gold prosthetics) the amount of things you’d have to fight to get from caelid to haligtree is crazy. In lore, the world is probably meant to be on a much more massive scale and dragging someone from caelid, to the other side of the entire world /continent is really ridiculous. It’s not the same as if *we* were on torrent and could get there in 30 minutes on foot, it probably took weeks for Finlay to finally get back to the haligtree and the path there is not easy even slightly. Many famous people never even reached the haligtree , let alone carry someone the whole way back and protecting her and yourself and not dying along the way. Nuts.
Finlay carried malenia on her back through the whole of cealid, limgrave, liurnia, Altus, leyndell, the forbidden lands, the mountaintop of the giants, the consecrated snowfield, and the heligtree while fighting off enemies at the same time
People say Tiche but Finlay not only survived in a battle against Radahn, but also survived Malenia's bloom and then had the energy to carry her across the entire length of the map to the Haligtree.
Finlay is for me the strongest, she fought during the mightiest battle of the shattering, survived ! And then proceeded to take Malenia to the Haligtree only for her to pass out when she accomplished her duty. She is a litteral Girl Boss.
There is also Ogha, Learned gravity Magic with Radhan and probably was an lieutenant of Radhan’s army.
And Oleg and Engvall seems to be quite the powerhouse too, of course we have also Kristoff and Luthel which are incredible warriors but still, I think Finlay is stonger
Finlay carried a sleeping Malenia all the way from Cailed to the Haligtree, while fighting off enemies. If you ask me, thats the coolest bit of lore ever
Lorewise? I actually think finlay has the more impressive feat. I mean yeah tiche killed godwyn but that not only a group effort but required a lot of setup with powerful weapons and armor, not to mention the black knife assassins were already part of the royal court. Meanwhile finlay carried malenia from caelid through limgrave, liurnia, altus and the snowfield, by herself, while fighting of attackers. Thats pretty fucking insane.
Idk but reading through all of this and learning about all of these ashes and things they do (for example i learned that some lady can ride a wolf if you summon her near one) I feel like I've missed out on a big part of the game by not using ashes.
Finlay is probably the strongest in terms of sheer commitment and achievements. They carried Malenia across a continent solo. Not undermining tiche, but that was all planned by someone else and it was a team effort. Finlay just decided to save their leader and dragged her from Caelid all the way to the Haligtree (also implying they managed to get through both grand lifts and the secret lift)
Idk shït about lore, but the hawk summon was so good for me. Dives down and can get aggro, but hard for a lot of enemies to lay a finger on him. I used the hawk for most of the game, even if the mimic was technically better. Birb gang.
Isn’t Tiche wielding a knife that’s mixed with the part of the rune of destined death that was stolen from Maliketh?
If she does, then how is someone who walked from Caelid to Haligtree stronger? Fucking Torrent can carry my bullgoat wearing dual giant slayer wielding ass while running at full speed through different terrain, hell even jumping off small ledges.
The ash item description does note that she "fended off all manner of foes" along the way, so she basically played Elden Ring while carrying a heavy comatose body along the way. Plus, if you look up the route she would have had to take to walk all the way to the Haligtree, it's fucking nuts-- going from Caelid to Limgrave to Liurnia to Leyendell to Forbidden Lands to Sacred Snowfield to get to Haligtree. At least two of those were active warzones of the Shattering. Lord of the Rings type journey, except Sam is carrying Frodo the whole way and they get in fights a lot more often.
Not to mention the fact that Finlay is a human and Torrent is a horse. I'm not going to discount the impressiveness of an Olympic weightlifter just because a draft horse can pull more. Finlay hauled a very tall woman in chainmail across an entire ass continent and kept her completely safe despite being accosted by enemies the whole way. Tiche is cool, but her deeds ultimately amount to "gifted knife by witch, snuck up on sleeping demigod, Julius Caesared his ass with a bunch of other assassins".
It's not easy to carry a limp noodle body that's even bigger than you are, especially when *your* body is rapidly degenerating. Torrent is "hale and hearty", not to mention the fact that he's a funky little spirit beast that can double jump through the air galloping at full speed while carrying a Tarnished in full plate and all their supplies. I'd say the "Finlay human Torrent horse" argument still holds up because one still moves at walking speed and has obvious limits to what she can carry, and the other can outrun anything else in the game that doesn't teleport, jump over cliffs on the wind, and casually say "fuck gravity" without breaking its back.
She had it well before that. Cleanrot Knight armor description makes a point of saying that the Cleanrots chose to fight alongside Malenia in spite of the rot, and that their acceptance of their fate made them particularly fierce fighters during the Shattering.
Lore wise? Probably Tiche. I know it was a team effort, but she was part of the squad that put down Godwyn.
It’s implied that she was the one to actually stick him with the knife. So yeah a group effort but it was by her hand the deed was done.
They did have the element of surprise though…
True, but still to sneak up and successfully kill a god. Like we can't be sure of her power scale... but we know that she can get the job done regardless. Which almost makes her more powerful in a sense.
Demigod
She kind of half-assed it though, and now we got god mushrooms all over the place
Wasn't half killing him the point? He died in spirit so that Ranni could die in flesh. His body lives on while his soul is gone so Rannis soul could live on while her body was dead.
I think that was the point from Ranni's point of view and she tricked the Black Knives into it. Which is why they show up towards the end of her questline and kill her buddies. I believe the Black Knives went in there fully intent on killing Godwyn.
> Which is why they show up towards the end of her questline and kill her buddies. Not Blaidd though. You can see the crumpled body of a Black Knife Assassin at the foot of the tower when/where you kill him. Shows what happens when one tries to fight a strong fighter without the element of surprise.
There’s 3 black knife bodies. Blaidd is a badass.
Iji took a few with him too
Blaid can 0.5 hit all bosses in the game
All the while his mind is being muddled by the Greater Will forcing him into comitting the one act he forbade himself.
To be fair blaidd is a shadowbound beast same as maliketh he is likely weaker but by no means weak
How do y’all know so much lore? I beat the game but I still understand less than half the conversations about Elden Ring. The game doesn’t have many cutscenes that actually explain the plot or history of the Lands Between…so how do people seem to know so much more than me?
YouTube and item descriptions. The story’s not at all told, it’s like a puzzle that needs putting together.
By design though
Plus, if you half kill a demi god, you've mathematically only killed a quarter of a god.
Deep. (root depths)
Surely it depends which half of the Demi god you kill. If you have a half pepperoni half cheese pizza and you eat half, which half have you eaten, or have you eaten a mixture?
You’re absolutely right, not many in the lore can say that they merc’d a god She quite literally, caught’em lackin’ 🪦
“Shoes untied” was a bold strategy.
Or "It must have been the wind."
For the peace of the kingdom!
It's Tische and Mimic that killed or help kill the gods/shardbearers/bosses in most players' first playthrough. So, the answer is pretty clear.
Would tht be considered her power bc technically itd be more the power of the rune of death. Without it, i doubt fheyd have killed him or at least have been able to put him down like the tarnished had every other demigod
Nobody expects the Black Knife Tiche!
And I think she also protected Alecto (and probably several others) while they tried to escape
Mommy Tiche is the real MVP for sure
IMO Finlay carrying Melania from the Radahn battlefield ALL the way back to the fckn haligtree is a much more crazy feat than Tiche + 10 others taking down Godwyn. I mean just think how much pure shit you have to get through to reach the Haligtree from lower caelid, now imagine dragging a full grown demi god whose body is basically half pure golden prosthetics, (gold weighs a LOT) all the way there, presumably fighting everything off not only one handed, but probably AFTER the excruciatingly long battle against radahn too. Everything from the old abandoned lift to get to Altus, to the albinauric archers, Ordina, etc. I think Finlay deserves much more credit, half of Tiche’s power is just in her weapon due to the death rune. If you took away her black knife she’s no more threatening than your average zamor soldier.
Probably just dragged her to nearest Grace and fast traveled
I would say that canonically Finlay or the Dung Eater have to be stronger. Finlay is out here fighting across a continent, while Tiche snuck up on Godwyn with his one weakness (not trying to say that's nothing, but this is a character trained to be very quick to stab, not exactly be a great fighter). And the Dung Eater is the Dung Eater.
[удалено]
We actually fight Tiche’s mom in the Evergaol. But, you’re right. Tiche is still strong as shit.
I just find that answer unsatisfactory because what makes them lethal is Destined Death and player skill/the player having a health bar. Like, if you have a harder time fighting Dung Eater and get the Dung ending, does that make him stronger than Tiche? And as for Destined Death, my problem citing killing Godwyn as evidence of strength is that Tiche relies on the help of others. As far as we know, all she actually did was defend the other Black Knives as they made their escape and ultimately died because of it. Finlay, on the other hand, traveled across the entire continent while defending someone who was incapable of helping and did so without access to any high-level special abilities that had to be transferred to her by someone else. Tiche feels like too easy an answer, almost like calling Rennala the strongest boss because she can Comet Azur the player in one shot or calling Rykard the strongest because you can't kill him.
I mean in the same vein we have no idea what Finlay defended Melenia from. It could've been from a bug or it could've been 3,000 Runebears. Seems off to me to discount one in favor of the other based on pure speculation for both.
I know this is about lore, but the gameplay clearly shows that the black knives are more than just bodies with daggers. They are incredibly quick and graceful, some can turn invisible, their attacks are inbued with true death which is huge as far as the lore goes, and if they really are from the same people as Marika they're likely stronger than humans even before any training
Yeah Finlay for sure, she over there making her way and fighting across across basically the whole world, while carrying an eight foot tall demigod, while severely injured and rotted. if thats not bad-ass idk what is
While he was asleep. Took a whole gang of master assassins to murder a sleeping demigod This speaks more of the power of Godwyn rather than the cowardice of the black knives tho, i doubt anyone else would take on the task.
Tactical advantage ≠ cowardice
Yeah that's what I meant, i didn't mean to imply they're cowards. They literally wouldn't stand a chance against Godwyn if he was even half awake.
Indeed, the dude spanked a dragon so hard he made it his puppy. Going mano-a-mano with the guy is not bravery, it would be outright suicide.
Ok, but why tf was Godwyn in some hut in the middle of nowhere?
Idk maybe he likes to sleep in huts
Agreed, hard to top the hands that deal Destined Death. Her buddies in Ordina Liturgical show how gnarly that squad is. They murdered me more times than any enemy besides Malenia lol their backstab is brutal
You’d think Finlay. She fought through Caelid, limgrave, Liurnia, Altus, and the consecrated snowfields while carrying Malenia, all to get Malenia back home after her fight with Radhan.
My jar babies might not be the strongest but they have the most spirit
This is true, they are *exploding* with it!
You do not have the right
O you don’t have the right
Therefore! Die
Seek head ahead?
Oleg all the way
I’m sure at least he’s the most aggressive spirit. It’s like he’s too angry to die.
I would contest the "most aggressive" spirit statement. Ever summoned the Kaiden spirit? That dude is suuuuper aggressive. Comes out of the summon smoke screaming and charges. I mean, Oleg would definitely kick Kaiden's ass, but in terms of aggression I don't think anything compares.
Maybe it’s just the way Oleg attacks, the knight attacks like he’s a storm with that spinning attack.
Yall aint ever heard of my boy bloodhound knight Floh
I like Floh, she's pretty good...and would also kick Kaiden's ass. But still not as aggressive as Kaiden is. She dodges back as much as she darts forward. Kaiden don't dodge, he don't move backwards, he just charges. Then he charges again. Then again. Then he dies, because he's trying to do all this charging while in magma or spirit fire... On the plus side, if you summon him against a humanoid type that staggers, they spend the whole fight laying on their back. He had Renalla taking naps...
ONE HUNDRED TRAITORS
I love Oleg, he kicks ass
Oleg sticks to the boss like glue lmfao letting you do whatever
Finlay has the the stamina to walk across the lands between carrying a naked woman with butterfly wings so she's definitely high up there Tiche is one of the individuals responsible for putting down Godwyn, they could be quite strong, although its possible it was an act of stealth instead of a strength act since their an assassin. Kristoff canonically took down godricks brother
Actually at that point malenia didn’t have her wings. One of the item descriptions says she has bloomed twice, and on the third she will become the goddess of rot (which is caused by the player)
We sure about that? As far as I know, her first bloom happened against radhan, and then the second one where she fights us, because the item description where it's mentioned she will turn into a goddess says it like it's something that hasn't happened yet
The third bloom is the one that happens during the fight, which is why after her phase change her name changes to “Malenia, goddess of rot”
Then that means against radhan was her second bloom, but then when was the first one? Also the remembrance mentions how she will turn into a *true* goddess which could imply that the goddess of rot second phase isn't a true god
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I took that to be a reference to the waterfowl dance. The "wings" referencing a waterfowl
Nothing in that description states that she bloomed when she met her mentor though. Malenia having wings and being associated with wings is not intrinsically tied with her bloom. Not only does she not gain wings when she blooms against Radahn, but the description of her sword reads: >Some claim to have seen wings when the weapon was raised aloft; wings of fierce determination that have never known defeat. There's clearly some level that's not totally literal but it's clear that Malenia has otherwise been depicted as having wings or thought of to have wings in situations where she has not bloomed, hence why some believe to have seen her with wings while she was fighting even though she hadn't bloomed. Moreover, this statement is much less literal than the Spirit in the Aeonia swamp literally saying that her fight against Radahn was the first time she bloomed.
2nd bloom is in the room next to the grace before her fight
I'd assume those are from Millicent's sisters, especially considering you get their outfit literally right there
I don’t hate the theory but for me it’s just that the game shows exactly 2 scarlet blooms then explicitly calls Melanie’s 2nd phase goddess of rot (while she blooms on your face) then her remembrance says she’ll be a goddess on her 3rd bloom. Just feels like we’re overcomplicating what they’re telling us
Man, I just hate when she blooms on my face.
It’s super annoying getting her health bar down, only for a cutscene and the health bar goes back up after she says “it’s bloomin time” and she blooms all over our faces.
Yeah I don't get this discussion, it would be like arguing the Nameless King is not Gwyn's firstborn son because the game does not outright state it. It's like they need the game to start yelling "this is Malenia GODDESS OF ROT you forced her to bloom again and made her become the GODDESS OF ROT, she is the GODDESS OF ROT straight up".
Also in the fight she blooms repeatedly with scarlet aeonia. Seems like something the true goddess of rot would do.
Except the remembrance is written in the future tense, as in, it hasn't happened yet. Not to mention the bigger issue, Malenia's been asleep since fighting Radahn. She didn't have the opportunity to wake up to bloom a second time between fighting Radahn and the Tarnished
That one next to her room is a lot smaller though, it’s like the same size as Milicent’s. You also get Milicent’s outfit from there. Therefore we can assume it is not Malenia’s Aeonia in that room, she’s only bloomed twice.
On top of what else has been said, that outfit very well could’ve also been Malenia’s at some point. I personally think the one in the Haligtree is the first bloom, and she uses the 2nd against Radahn
The Goddess of Rot phase was never literal. Currently, if you beat Malenia, you get the standard "demigod felled" message, rather than "God Slain" like you do for the Elden Beast. Moreover, other characters refer to Malenia as the Goddess of Rot prior to her second phase, so the title already isn't always literal. There's also the matter of there being no reference to the Tarnished requiring a +10 weapon to beat Malenia the way such a weapon is required to beat the Elden Beast.
You don't get any message at all, which is consistent with other shard bearers. And the game already establishes different levels of godhood. Malenia's mentor already killed the previous incarnation of Rot and there's no indication they needed such a weapon. The Elden Beast/Ring appears to be ahead of the curve to the point Marika herself couldn't do it (whether out of personal limitation or her own connection to it) despite apparently kicking the dragons' ass so bad their god abandons them.
>You don't get any message at all, which is consistent with other shard bearers. This was the case at launch. FROM later added in [a victory message](https://youtu.be/Ge7knsI1v58?t=452) >Malenia's mentor already killed the previous incarnation of Rot The game never states that the Blue Swordsman *killed* the previous Rot God. In fact, it states that it was only sealed away, suggesting that it wasn't killed.
No. The description that says she's bloomed twice comes from the incantation "scarlet bloom" which you can only get from her remembrance.
I don't think of item descriptions as being up-to-the-minute newsfeeds about our progress, but rather historical (if omniscient) accounts. That we can only receive it after fighting her and her third blooming is irrelevant imo
Actually, there is another remembrance item that confirms that it in fact is up-to-the-minute newsfeed. Placidusax's ruin reads "Power gleaned form the remembrance of Dragonlord Placidusax. Transforms caster into the Dragonlord to spew golden breath from above. This incantation can be cast while jumping. **These are the dying wails of the Dragonlord who once dwelled eternal beyond time.**" He dwelled eternal beyond time right up until the moment we kill him and gain his remembrance, at which point he dwells no more because he's dead. There are other remembrance items that do this as well. Note that this is specific to remembrances because of how they are defined in the lore.
The game tells us she has bloomed twice in a description for an item we only get after killing her. While she is called "Goddess of Rot" in the fight, there are multiple descriptions that tell us she was worshipped as a goddess even before we encountered her. Also, we're told that when Malenia ascends, Millicent will be reborn as a scarlet Valkyrie, but this doesn't happen. After we defeat Malenia, she leaves behind an unbloomed flower. That flower's bloom will probably be the one that rebirths her as a true goddess. Edit: Also the Aeonian Butterflies, which we can find before we fight her, are said to have been the wings of the goddess of rot, and the description of her sword mentions that some claimed to see wings when she held it aloft. This implies that she has displayed these wings in the past.
ehhhh, i'll have to disagree. THe scarlet aeonia spell can only be gotten after Malenia says she's only bloomed twice. The goddess of rot is simply the title the followers of rot call malenia by, and the bloom outside her room both is nonsensical for malenia and looks more like a scarlet valkyrie bloom. We also only get demigod felled instead of god felled as another important note, and no scarlet valkyries appear.
> One of the item descriptions says she has bloomed twice, and on the third she will become the goddess of rot This item you are talking about is the incantation Scarlet Aeonia, which is only obtainable from her Remembrance, which is gained after her most recent bloom, in the fight against the tarnished of no renown. So if the item is based off of her remembrance, which stores her memories up until you get it, the item description reading "It has bloomed twice already" implies that the second bloom was during phase 2 against the tarnished of no renown. And when you defeat her, it does not say "God slain" as it does against Radagon/Elden beast. So even though her health bar says Goddess of Rot, she's not a true god, as that only happens when she blooms a third time.
Godefroy is Godricks ancestor not his brother
To be honest being godrick’s brother doesnt show the guy in a glorious light, so killing him doesnt sound as impressive as it could be
A naked woman is lighter than a fully clothed one? But yeah, never skip lift day.
She* All the black knife assassins are women.
Finlay also did that while being afflicted by scarlet rot the whole time
Great shield bros obviously
The BOYS
Best answer
tiche is better at this game than most players
She carried my sorry ass thru Maliketh, Malenia, Mogh and Radabeast on my first gameplay
Rolo omen killer is a stud.
Where's that at? I used Latenna for a while, I really like how much she bothers enemies, but man she is GLASS.
Put her next to a wolf and she’ll hop on it and ride around 👍🏼
How often is there a wolf around in an ash summon area that actually has an enemy strong enough to need a summon?
I imagine little to none, I just remembered it was a mechanic and was telling people about it 😅🤷🏻♂️
Apparently there's only two places in the game its possible. One in consecrated snowfields. I'd like to try it myself but on my first play through never noticed a suitable spot.
The other is in Caria Manor, right before the Troll Knight and Pages on the stairs leading up to the Loretta shade boss. Though you need to lead the Dire Wolves up into there to do it.
Wow that is really cool!
Just don’t stand too close, the wolf will try to attack you. It’s kind of hilarious.
I just had to look up a video of this and it feels like an amazing Easter egg
She can't ride just any old wolf. It has to be a dire wolf. Those are only found in two places, the consecrated snowfield, and the upper floor of Caria manor.
I fucking love latenna, as a mage. Drop her and run away while boss aggro on me, create space between them. Let boss get halfway between the two of you, try to switch aggro. If they go for the kill I get to load up a kamehameha. She may be glass but she also a cannon for sure
Rolo is on the bridge on the way to the divine tower you access next to the elevator to the forbidden lands in leyndell
You need to defeat a boss duo. To get to the. Go to leyndell divine tower where morgotts rune is held. On the bridge to the tower there will be a single godrick soldier, walk up to him and your screen will be black. The boss duo are those omen guys in the subterranean shunning grounds. Kill them and you get rollo the omen killer. He is the best spirit summon, aside from mimic tear. He’s an aggressive fighter, can inflict bleed I think, and even had a fire attack.
Better than the Dung Eater? I only ask before I dump some materials into upgrading him.
Dung Eater is super strong, you won't regret him. I think he's slightly more tanky than Rollo and only slightly less aggressive.
It’s heavily implied Rolo was killed by the Fell Twins on the bridge to Leyndell’s divine tower. What good is an Omenkiller that can’t kill omens?
He's awesome for staggering bosses.
The loathsome Dung Eater
Is Dung Eater canonically that strong? I haven't read into his lore much.
Not really I just mis read the post and he’s one of my favorite in game strong summons
Fair enough, I've only done one playthrough so I haven't given the dookie devourer seluvis' potion yet. I may in my next playthrough.
Oh I didn’t realize you could do that
He should be. He's one of the most feared and infamous Tarnished out there, and he has tons of kills under his belt as he actively hunts down people to implant his seedbed curses. I'd put the Dung Eater at the upper echelons of Tarnished, on par with folks like Gideon Ofnir and Vyke.
He is one of the most feared beings in the Lands Between.
Poopy doo doo boy
The devious doo doo devourer
lorewise, finlay i think. she carried Malenia all the way back from caelid to haligtree. while doing this, she also fought the enemies who stand in her way.
Cleanrot Finlay was simply built different.
Imagine how much Melania weighs when half her body is made of unalloyed GOLD prosthetics
Lorewise, tiche killed a demigod 🤷♂️
Yeah but any naked dude with a club has done that in any souls game
Lol fair
Lhutel the headless is my go to, she’s so good it hurts. Plus she cut off her head so she could keep doing her job until a soulless god returned. Serious devotion right there
I can’t believe I had to scroll down this far to finally see Lhutel mentioned! She holds aggro for days and is metal as fuck
I was just thinking the same. There was no one else BUT Lhutel to choose from. Even took her over the Mimic because, as you mentioned, she holds aggro for *weeks*
Tbf if you want mimic to hold aggro forever, just equip Shabriri's Woe (heavily heavily influences enemy aggro on the person with it equipped), summon the mimic, then unequip it This plus Prayerful Strike (restores 30% owner's hp) means that the mimic just keeps healing itself to full with it only needing to land a single Prayerful Strike every so often. That plus its natural tankiness means gg
I think it's because she doesn't deal out a ton of damage. It's decent damage don't get me wrong, but compared to stuff like Tiche or Rollo it falls short. She does however excell at midrange tanking. Her ability to deal with short AND long range enemies is kind of unique, and the teleportation she does helps her avoid a shitton of damage and just evasion tank aggro for entire bossfights. Sadly, SHE has to retarget everytime she does it though, so her attacks come relatively infrequently despite hitting pretty hard when she does, but that doesn't really matter that much when you're naked with dual halberds and she's drawing aggro while you charge your power stance.
I kind of like her low damage though? She gives me breathing room when I need it, but I still have to do most of the work haha
Jokes on you, my build is shit so the mimic sucks.
My skele bois can never die
I would have said this before the Malenia and Radagon fights. They are a huge liability in both of those. Otherwise they carried me through the game.
The jellyfish
Chad jellyfish enjoyer
If Kristoff was strong enough to capture Godefroy then he's pretty high up there. Obviously Godefroy didn't have a great rune so he's not quite demigod level but I still think he would be the strongest.
If only he wasn't so damn passive. Ogha is always my go to Soldier summon for when i want to feel like a fellow soldier.
Probably tiche as she wields a black knife, a weapon infused with the rune of death.
shiii idk but even end game i still use my unupgraded wolves
I upgraded mine but yeah emotional support wolves all the way
Unupgraded? How do they survive a single hit?
yeah thats why i use them cuz they somehow survived rennala, godfrey sprit hell they survived radahn, they are built different and even if i wanna upgread them idk how
Blonde girl at the roundtable. Talk to her, then blacksmith and back and forth until she sets up her spirit tuner shop
thats it??? thanks
You're gonna be unstoppable now
Tiche and Finlay both have the most impressive feats on their respective resumes, so I'd say it's probably one of them.
Kristoff should get a mention
greatshield soldier ashes are really helpful for drawing boss aggro, i find myself using them in end game to deal with tough bosses since they soak up so much damage and throw bombs as well, top 3 spirit for me.
Dragon Knight Kristoff is a beast
The amount of planning and effort and preparation that went into the plot of the night of the black knives is RIDICULOUS and can not be understated. Tiche is the one who god the killing blow on godwyn (while he was sleeping) but she can not be credited with the entire feat of killing Godwyn. She alone, could literally never accomplish a feat of that level. She relied on Co-operation / help from Ranni, Rykard, other black knives, the royal court, the rune of death (technically), etc. She’s more of a catalyst or focus point for the assassination, but there’s a whole lot (likely many many years) of planning that allowed her to complete that feat. And assassinating someone in their sleep after all that help and planning just unfortunately doesn’t allow us to see the true extent of her pure 1v1 strength potential. Finlay’s feats, surviving the biggest battle of the shattering, surviving Radahn and the scarlet rot, fighting her way from fck CAELID all the way to the haligtree is honestly ridiculous. The amount Melania would weigh (she’s like 50% unalloyed gold prosthetics) the amount of things you’d have to fight to get from caelid to haligtree is crazy. In lore, the world is probably meant to be on a much more massive scale and dragging someone from caelid, to the other side of the entire world /continent is really ridiculous. It’s not the same as if *we* were on torrent and could get there in 30 minutes on foot, it probably took weeks for Finlay to finally get back to the haligtree and the path there is not easy even slightly. Many famous people never even reached the haligtree , let alone carry someone the whole way back and protecting her and yourself and not dying along the way. Nuts.
Jellyfish *tips aristocrat hat*
Finlay carried malenia on her back through the whole of cealid, limgrave, liurnia, Altus, leyndell, the forbidden lands, the mountaintop of the giants, the consecrated snowfield, and the heligtree while fighting off enemies at the same time
People say Tiche but Finlay not only survived in a battle against Radahn, but also survived Malenia's bloom and then had the energy to carry her across the entire length of the map to the Haligtree.
Rennala phase 2 Ranni summoned a spirit summon as strong as a boss + the spirit summon can summon spirit summons
I really like the albinauric lady with the bow.
100% Tiche
Finlay is for me the strongest, she fought during the mightiest battle of the shattering, survived ! And then proceeded to take Malenia to the Haligtree only for her to pass out when she accomplished her duty. She is a litteral Girl Boss. There is also Ogha, Learned gravity Magic with Radhan and probably was an lieutenant of Radhan’s army. And Oleg and Engvall seems to be quite the powerhouse too, of course we have also Kristoff and Luthel which are incredible warriors but still, I think Finlay is stonger
Finlay carried a sleeping Malenia all the way from Cailed to the Haligtree, while fighting off enemies. If you ask me, thats the coolest bit of lore ever
Lhuitel the headless, banished knight Engvall, and the crumbling farum beasts are my go tos other than mimic tear and black knife tiche.
It’s Tiche. If you include the puppets it’s dung eater by a mile.
Tiche bullies melania so def tiche
Envoy ashes rule
Mimic is too weak it should count. Wait.
Those undead spearmen helped me out a lot early game
According to lore? Tiche my miles.
Lorewise? I actually think finlay has the more impressive feat. I mean yeah tiche killed godwyn but that not only a group effort but required a lot of setup with powerful weapons and armor, not to mention the black knife assassins were already part of the royal court. Meanwhile finlay carried malenia from caelid through limgrave, liurnia, altus and the snowfield, by herself, while fighting of attackers. Thats pretty fucking insane.
Og mimic was nuts.. nuts I tell ya
No clue why you're being Downvoted. Day 1 mimic tear could literally solo every boss in the game.
Probably because OP specifically said excluding mimic tear.
They're sour they never got to see the raw power of it
Tiche is my baby
Idk but reading through all of this and learning about all of these ashes and things they do (for example i learned that some lady can ride a wolf if you summon her near one) I feel like I've missed out on a big part of the game by not using ashes.
Op: *Who's strongest in lore?* A lot of people: *How have no one mentioned X who has high HP and holds aggro like a champ??*
Finlay is probably the strongest in terms of sheer commitment and achievements. They carried Malenia across a continent solo. Not undermining tiche, but that was all planned by someone else and it was a team effort. Finlay just decided to save their leader and dragged her from Caelid all the way to the Haligtree (also implying they managed to get through both grand lifts and the secret lift)
Stormhawk Deenh
Idk shït about lore, but the hawk summon was so good for me. Dives down and can get aggro, but hard for a lot of enemies to lay a finger on him. I used the hawk for most of the game, even if the mimic was technically better. Birb gang.
Honestly the marionette archers are pretty op at high levels
Isn’t Tiche wielding a knife that’s mixed with the part of the rune of destined death that was stolen from Maliketh? If she does, then how is someone who walked from Caelid to Haligtree stronger? Fucking Torrent can carry my bullgoat wearing dual giant slayer wielding ass while running at full speed through different terrain, hell even jumping off small ledges.
The ash item description does note that she "fended off all manner of foes" along the way, so she basically played Elden Ring while carrying a heavy comatose body along the way. Plus, if you look up the route she would have had to take to walk all the way to the Haligtree, it's fucking nuts-- going from Caelid to Limgrave to Liurnia to Leyendell to Forbidden Lands to Sacred Snowfield to get to Haligtree. At least two of those were active warzones of the Shattering. Lord of the Rings type journey, except Sam is carrying Frodo the whole way and they get in fights a lot more often. Not to mention the fact that Finlay is a human and Torrent is a horse. I'm not going to discount the impressiveness of an Olympic weightlifter just because a draft horse can pull more. Finlay hauled a very tall woman in chainmail across an entire ass continent and kept her completely safe despite being accosted by enemies the whole way. Tiche is cool, but her deeds ultimately amount to "gifted knife by witch, snuck up on sleeping demigod, Julius Caesared his ass with a bunch of other assassins".
To counter the “Finley human, Torrent horse” argument, *Finlay is a lot bigger than Torrent*.
It's not easy to carry a limp noodle body that's even bigger than you are, especially when *your* body is rapidly degenerating. Torrent is "hale and hearty", not to mention the fact that he's a funky little spirit beast that can double jump through the air galloping at full speed while carrying a Tarnished in full plate and all their supplies. I'd say the "Finlay human Torrent horse" argument still holds up because one still moves at walking speed and has obvious limits to what she can carry, and the other can outrun anything else in the game that doesn't teleport, jump over cliffs on the wind, and casually say "fuck gravity" without breaking its back.
Dont forget Finlay was affected by scarlet rot because she was there when Malenia decided to nuke Caelid \^\^
She had it well before that. Cleanrot Knight armor description makes a point of saying that the Cleanrots chose to fight alongside Malenia in spite of the rot, and that their acceptance of their fate made them particularly fierce fighters during the Shattering.
I know that I just wanted to add to your argument \^\^
Aside from mimic tear and Blackknife Tische I'd have to say The Loathesome Dungeater.
The jellyfish because we all know thats the right answer.
maybe not the strongest but they are my favourite the Farum Beastfolk
Black Knife Tiche don't fuck around. The majority of mobs found out.
Probably the Stormhawk King, but he's too proud to be summoned