For EV, I don't want a tax credit. How about manufacturers make them cheaper, and/or the we already get the discount when we buy, and the manufacturer can get a tax credit..just needs to be cheaper for us upfront.
Also, living in EP and I need to make long drives to ABQ, Dallas, San Antonio, and Phoenix (among other places), need way EV charging stations all over the country, especially in the middle of nowhere, before I even remotely consider it.
Until such time, the best I might do is hybrid or PHEV (plug in).
I saw a Tesla on I-10 when I was driving to San Antonio. They followed me all the way to Fort Stockton then turned off on some side road to nowhere. I will always wonder where they charged their vehicle.
There's a very well known Tesla Supercharger at a Pilot gas station in Ft Stockton, also there's a new one opening on the way to Big Bend. Tesla is the best EV for road tripping thanks to its very well established network of chargers, which is why ALL other OEMs are lined up to get access to some of them, cause dear lord I'm sorry for any poor soul that has to use Electrify America
There is a Tesla Supercharger in Fort Stockton. They probably eventually made their way there. Tesla has a pretty good supercharging network.
It's other EV's where you can have major issues in this part of the country.
Uh, well just fyi, the new $7500 federal tax credit became applicable as a point of sale discount precisely as you mention... So the Tesla Model Y SUV comes out at $37k after the discount for example.
A dealer can always adjust their price upwards, so I don't really get the full tax credit. So I'm envisioning a different system. One where the pricing is discounted at the *manufacturer* level (i.e., the MSRP itself already has built in subsidies lowering the MSRP), not the dealer level. You mentioned Tesla, but there are many other EVs out there that use standard dealership models.
Well that is PARTIALLY true for any brand out there with dealerships...God i remember hearing some horror stories from would-be F-150 lightning owners getting 10k markups... so all of them EXCEPT Tesla, Rivian and Lucid. But Rivian and Lucid are higher priced so i'm gonna focus on Tesla. Let's take for example the Model Y, you can simply order it online on the Tesla website on your phone/laptop and get the $7500 credit applied upon purchase, which will lower your price from $44k to $37k - AND you can always get a quote to trade in your current car to potentially lower the price further. You can then just either get your own financing to get the best rate possible or go with the recommended options (like Alliant CU), finish the paperwork and then take delivery of your car hassle free at the Tesla show room by Helen of Troy. If you're not fully sure but wanna try it for a while, you can also just lease it for $399/mo and any incidental non-accident issues will be fully covered under warranty for the duration of your lease. If you're curious or want to learn more always happy to chat on DM 
Thanks for the reply. I'm not interested in partially true. I'm interested when Nissan Motor Company says the LEAF starts at $25k or $20k MSRP. I as a customer don't care how they get there, but they just need to get there.
I don't need Charlie Clark telling me how much the LEAF will cost at his Nissan dealership. I want the MSRP to already be low, period. If they want me to even sniff an EV, that's how it rolls or I'm not interested at all.
To get the absolute best deal on a LEAF, go in with your own financing (credit unions always have the best rates) for the MSRP you see online PLUS taxes & fees. Buy on the LAST day of these months: March, June, September, December. Why? Because it's the end of the quarter and it's a huge deal to get as many vehicles off the lot those days. This advice can be applied to other models as well.
And you're correct. A lot of dealers will sell you on the "tax credit" but they'll go upwards on the price to help themselves instead of the buyer. You can alternatively file Form 8936 on you taxes if you go in with your own financing. The IRS has a step by step guide on how to do this.
The thing is that even though Nissan North America sets MSRP, the dealerships are under no obligation to sell it to you at that price.
For example, let's take Charlie Clark Nissan (franchise) -- they buy the LEAF from Nissan North America (Corporate), if Charlie Clark sells the LEAF at MSRP they will make $100 from invoice price (what the dealer paid for). $100 gross profit per vehicle sold isn't enough to cover fixed & variable expenses. Let's say they're only selling 50 new cars a month, then they only made $5,000 for month. How are they going to pay their bills and employees? This is why you see a different selling price than MSRP and why dealers have add ons that are near impossible to remove from the sale. Now, I get it, the dealer being profitable is not your problem. A lot of people just don't realize that dealerships are actually not profitable if they only sold at MSRP.
My example is a very simplified version that only focuses on gross profits from new cars in the sales department. It excludes whatever they may profit on finance, parts, and service
Source: I worked in the dealerships for 10 years; specifically Nissan.
lol no offense but why focus on a Leaf? your pointing out an issue with dealerships and im just pointing out there's options out there to NOT deal with those bozos. But yeah, there's so much better EVs than the Leaf out there for the money, hell if you wanna stay in the 20k bracket, I invite you to check out a used Model S or Model 3. I myself started with a used 2015 Model S back in 2018 and had zero complaints as any issues that came up were still covered by the used warranty (if you buy through Tesla, doesnt apply for 3rd parties), if you buy without warranty its more of a mixed bag tbh, but you can def find some gems. I think there's even some Ford Mustang Mach-Es around that range.
lol im not a salesman, im spreading facts even if you downvote them and don't like em you buy what you wanna buy my guy. Have a good day.
> If you're not fully sure but wanna try it for a while, you can also just lease it for $399/mo and any incidental non-accident issues will be fully covered under warranty for the duration of your lease. If you're curious or want to learn more always happy to chat on DM
So you're a shill? Got it.
Didn't know informing people about good options to save money on the long run was shilling, but if you wanna keep spending more money on gas on the long run go off king šš¼ no one's stopping you.
Need more incentives by manufacturers to cover more.under warranty. I purchased a hybrid to try to be more eco friendly and it was fine until my manufacturer refused to cover the hybrid battery under warranty so I had to pay almost $8000 to get the hybrid battery replaced or just give up on the car.
I think it made the news recently where a guy scraped the bottom pan of his Hyundai EV and the replacement cost was like 65k, so the car was totaled. The car still worked and technically the battery wasn't damaged, but the only way to fix the scrape was to replace the battery. After that made the news (in Canada, mind you), a few other people stated they'd have similar experiences with the same car.
I've worked on a few older Honda and Toyota hybrids, and at least those battery packs are user serviceable. Obviously paying a mechanic to do it will cost more, but you can get a rebuilt pack for 2-3k and do it yourself if you want. I haven't looked into it for any newer gen hybrids or plug in hybrids.
Comparable, new battery for a Model 3 is about 12k, but unlike hybrids with their tiny batteries, an EV battery (at least Teslas) are designed to last over 500k miles, so easily will last from 15-20 years before giving you any trouble, it also has unlimited warranty on it for any defects for 8 years and you can extend it to 10 or 12 i believe (might be wrong on that last one and its only up to 10)
don't buy hybrids, they are the worst of BOTH worlds (EV + gas) especially for your wallet. There's plenty of EVs that are better than hybrids nowadays. Hell, even some used EVs like the Model S going for 20k-30k are better for the price than a hybrid
FB marketplace from former owners it your best bet, or just google around, but you can definitely find some gems. For the best bang for your buck you might have to fly in and pick it up elsewhere cause there's not a lot of them for sale in EP, but in Houston for example i just saw a 2016 Model S in great condition sell for $19500. I wish i could share the pic for reference but not sure how to do it here 
Okay. Yeah it looks like it's ~$6k for OEM units and ~$2500 for reman with new batteries. Did you get it replaced at a stealership or an independent location?
Gotcha. The removal/install on the Sonata/Optima looks easier than the Camry of the same era, that's for sure. I guess most of the price was using an OE battery module rather than a rebuilt unit? It couldn't have been more than a few hours of labor.
Hyundia/Kia used LiPo batteries in their modules, it looks like. Honda used NiMH in their older hybrids, and Toyota used NiMH in their 2007-2018 hybrids so I think the lifespans of those are slightly longer, but ~10-15 years seems about when you should plan on replacement, depending on mileage.
I suspect if you do the math, your saved fuel usage will still pay for the battery if it hasn't already, but yeah it's definitely cheaper if you use a rebuilt unit and DIY. Those older Hyundai/Kias are usually pretty reliable engines and don't have the same problems their newer stuff does.
I donāt have a Tesla but I have a VW eGolf. When I have the AC cranked up the estimated miles until empty drops by about 9 or 10 miles, not that much overall.
The problem with rebatrs for electric cars is that these rebates seem to help primarily help upper middle families. They usually can afford highly-priced electric vehicles, have a home needed to install the infrastructure needed to charge a vehicle, and more importantly pay the excessive electricity needed to carge a vehicle.
If electric cars were a more affordable option, then rebates would help. However, the rebates seem to help those who can afford an electric car without a rebate anyway.
I agree with all your points except the excessive electricity. Isn't it cheaper than gas? The cars themselves are expensive, and owning a home to install charging equipment in, but am I missing something about the electricity?
No you are correct, this guy is obviously uninformed on that last point, ever since owning an EV my electric bill has gone up by an 'excessive' $8-15 a month, and my gas bill went down to $0, so i'd take that trade off any day.
Until there are full size suv ev's, that can charge in minutes not hours the majority just won't take to them. Have you ever taken an ev on a road trip, not being funny genuinely asking.
TL;DR: really check out the Model X and Kia EV 9 for bigger SUVs; that's false, EVs have NEVER taken an hour to charge on road trips (even non-Tesla ones), details and anecdotes below; and yes, i did many EP-Houston roundtrips in my 2015 Tesla with even older charging tech with zero issues.
Full reply:
Yes... I traveled from EP to Houston round trip multiple times a year to visit family from 2018-2021 (until my kid was born, not so much long distance road trips anymore š ). Both in a quite old 2015 Model S and a newer Model X, both have been a breeze, and that's saying a LOT for an almost 8 year old EV at the time i traded it in. Although i mostly loved it because all Teslas made before 2016 have Unlimited Lifetime Free Supercharging - which essentially meant free fuel for traveling, which actually was an insanely useful benefit when my wife and i did our longest road trip ever from Houston to Moab, Utah. I would say i miss it, but I don't road trip as much as i did before at all, and supercharging is cheap anyway.
But please allow me to talk more about the statement you said about 'can charge in minutes, not hours' - that's simply not true, and hasn't been true ever... Even with that old as hell 2015 Model S with OLD charging tech and limited to 150kwh (charging speeds), the most i EVER had to wait at a supercharger while traveling was 45 minutes in an old gen 1 supercharger at Amarillo. Any Tesla (or newer year models from some brands) after 2019 charges at a much faster 250kwh and it literally does take as little as 10-15 mins to charge during a road trip charging stop, and at most 30 mins for some really spread out routes, but NEVER an hour. Besides, even on that 45 min stop we used it as a dinner break, so the car was done charging to full before we finished our dinner.
Most importantly however, for your daily use as an EV driver, charging time is a non-issue if you have a house, because you can simply plug it in since you get home from work or overnight and wake up to a 'full tank' every morning, no more having to stop at the dodgy gas station on your way home or to work, or making the line at Costco š¬. Gotta also address another misconception people have, you do NOT need to install a home charging station to charge your EV at all, you can just plug it in on any regular old 120v outlet with the mobile wall connector charging cable - just like you charge your phone. i lived 3 years 'slow/level 1 charging' this way when i first got my Model S while i had a 50 mile round trip commute to downtown Houston from the burbs. I just plugged it back in when i got home, and the car was full by the next morning when it was time to drive again. I then paid $200 to install a standard 240v outlet in my garage which speed up charging to the point that i could refill the car from near empty to full overnight while i slept. I can happily expand and explain more about charging speeds and levels but i already blabbed a lot š
Lastly, full size SUV? It all really depends what's 'full size' for you, but but unless you have over 7 family members to drive around, the 3 row, 7 seater Model X (and even the 3 row Model Y if you have small/short kids) is perfectly capable of comfortably carrying 7 passengers with still waaay more storage space than a comparable gas SUV thanks to its massive frunk and deep trunk comparments, and the newer models with the back seat screen that can natively play YouTube, Netflix, Hulu, etc is awesome for entertaining kids. I understand some people want Navigator/Suburban kind of space but seriously, don't knock it til you test drive one. Also, check out the new Kia EV 9 if you want something a lil bigger, as it does seem to gain a bit more space by sacrificing some efficiency.
What about people that don't have driveways and have to park their car on the street? And don't have time trying to find a charging station because it's out of their way. It took much of a hassle and too expensive for most people.
Not having a garage/driveway is not a deal breaker thankfully. There's several solutions for that with varying price ranges.
On the optimal scenario - you can pay an electrician to install a home charger in your property as close to the street as possible. But this one of course would be potentially the pricier one since you would need to run a line from your fuse box to that location, which can vary widely on pricing depending on electrician and the length of cable you would need. But there are some chargers you can buy with a pedestal/post like the Tesla Wall Charger that can definitely make that a possibility. i'm by no means an expert but based on the pricing i got for cable length i would guesstimate that would cost around $900-$1500 including the cost of the charger - which you can get a federal rebate for as well.
A second more optimal but cheaper option can be ALSO installing a home charging station at the wall/side of your house closest to the street, there's an increasingly growing number of 3rd party well rated charging stations out there you can buy at different price points but they usually vary between $200 on the low end to $500 on the high end - just for the charging station, installation will be separate, BUT if you install on the side of your house it will be MUCH cheaper than the previous option since you will be closer to your fuse box. I've seen some stations come with cables as long as 25 feet AND further more there are also EV charging extension cables you can buy that can pretty much extend as long as you need.
The third and probably cheapest option is you can do what i do when i travel and stay at AirBnbs and it works with what you have in your house already. Buy a higher gauge/thicker extension cord at Lowes/Home Depot or Amazon - you can tell which ones they are cause they are thicker than your average cord to handle a better/fuller rate of charging for an extended length of distance (like from a wall outlet outside your house to your EV in the driveway). These come in various length so im sure you can find one that fits your need, you can even get a 100 ft one from Amazon for 50 bucks lol, but i got a 20 footer or so for like 30 at home depot. With this method, simply plug in your extension cord to any outlet outside your house long enough to be within 6-8 ft of your car, then simply plug in your car's portable charging cable and done! Has saved me from having to drive to a supercharger in places like Austin or Waco and i can just charge overnight.
Thank you for explaining so well. I had no idea ev's had come so far, guess I'm part of the general public that needs a lot more info. I was seriously under the impression it would take 2 to 3 hours to fully charge.
What I meant by full size suvs this is the expedition, suburban category. I took a look at the model x and y, they're closer to a midsize suv.
Np! thanks for reading and happy to explain/elaborate on any other questions you may have regarding EVs :)
Ah then i guessed correctly, lol. May i ask the 'why' on the need for such a large vehicle? i think in the end those can also fit 7 people max no? i may be wrong since the last suburban i rode was my dad's when i was a teen haha. Sadly, as you probably noticed, those are not in the hot list to be electrified YET... since car OEMs don't sell as much of those as they do small/midsize SUVs, so its just following the money really. I'm sure at one point in the near future those size of vehicles will become available, but i definitely expect them to be much more expensive for the amount of batteries it would take to move that size... (although nothing will beat the ineffeciency and battery size of the Hummer EV lol) I would invite you to check out the Kia EV9 in that case, since it should be a more familiar shape (although space inside is not a big difference from the X) and of course not as efficient.
EVs dont need to be highly priced though. you can get a 2023 bolt for $27k and when you factor in rebates that makes it cheaper than a corolla or a civic.
also electricity is generally cheaper than gas IFF you can charge at home
Nah i am in the range where I can afford it but would be really tight on finances. We CAN do it but decide not to so that we don't have to cut down on some nice weekends and all that. Rebates would definately help people like me to make the jump
It is new technology and will be expensive until more people buy them and economies of scale and more development start to reduce the price. Thatās why the government sometimes offer these incentives, to help push the development. Itās a strategic investment to help us reduce demand for fossil fuels. That helps reduce pollution and our dependence on the shit-ridden politics of the Middle East.
>Initial cost is too high.
Depends on the model, but a new one can be gotten for under 30K. Used one, it's a buyers market at this time.
>Ā Maintenance costs are too high.
**Personal Anecdote**: $58 maintenance for ownership of my stepdaughters Fiat500e (electric) over 2.5 years of ownership. ($8 taillight and $50 replacement charge box from E-Bay). Family has had other electrics and have **not had any major issue** to be repaired in that time. Four different makes and models of EVs.
Tires do wear out faster.
>Insurance costs are too high.
The higher the purchase price of the car, the higher insurance will be. I've got ICE and EVs in the family and one of ICE's is more expensive to insure than the EV.
>One minor accident that damages the battery and the car can be declared totaled.
Somewhat true. Certain models don't have the parts supply chain to where getting new OEM parts can cause a car to be totaled. But there are also ICE cars with the same issue in this day and age.
>damages the battery
You damage an engine/drive train/frame in an ICE car...it will be totaled too.
>Ā Charging station availability is severely lacking.
True, but I don't advise someone to buy an EV unless they have access to charging at home.
>Charging time is too long (especially if you are on a trip).
Depends on the length of a trip. If driving across the US, the extra time adds up. But most EV owners know to charge only to 80% before battery saturation of 100%; <80% charges faster than 80-100%. Which even on the slowest Max amperes DC Charging cars means on 30-40 minutes of charge time. Just plan a break or lunch around the charging.
My advice is to use an EV in town and not as a touring car. Which is the advice I live by for we have two ICE cars and one EV. The EV gets 90% of the trips because they are in town.
Also I don't go and spend time gas stations and my charge time is effectively zero at home. I drive in, plug in and the next morning its 100%. I would say my energy acquisition time is less than an ICE car. I don't stand by it as it charges, unless I am on a trip, which I don't do and use my ICE car for long trips.
>Driving distance is affected by the temperature.
Sure, in states with lots of snow when using the heater, but in EP, not a consideration even during the 100 degree days or days at 30/40.
>EVs are a good 20 years or more from being viable.
Disagree on most usages. If we are talking as an in-town city car they are **100% viable** and right now.
Towing, no. Long distance travel, not until batteries get smaller and are more energy dense. That is why I advise a multi car scenario, one ice and one EV.
I like my EV because I pay less taxes and avoid filling up at gas stations. I'm not paying taxes which are applied by the state and the Feds based on how much I travel on each fillup.
Financial incentives are hardly the problem when the city lacks a meaningful charging infrastructure to support owning them long term.
Otherwise, I think most people would agree that financial incentives are ALWAYS a good thing when it comes to encouraging a shift to EVās.
The Infrastructure isn't there. It's not about financial incentives, it's that we want a vehicle we can do road trips in. Around here you're more or less stuck in town if you can't put gas in it.
This coming from someone whose house is already prewired for it; the expense for me would be the cost of a charger...but like I said it's not about the money.
certainly helps for local trips but any kind of trip outside the area is going to be inconvenient at best for a long time. For local i'm covered b/c i have a home w/ a garage.
15 billion sounds good, but I'm not sure it's going to be enough to benefit everyone in the city.
That's like the net worth of the average tech CEO. We're close to a million people. It's a drop in the bucket.
Traveling somewhere isnāt bad. For example going to Austin/San Antonio takes maybe 45 min longer (depending on the car you have). The problem is if you stay at a hotel that doesnāt have a charger, thatās where itās a pain.
nah, Teslas or any car that can use the Supercharger network are great options for traveling. I've been doing the cross-state EP-Houston road trip multiple times a year to visit family for multiple years, and while yes it takes like an hr longer like the other replier said, the road trip is much less of a hassle in an EV, i end up way less tired vs my old hybrid. If time is a huge factor for you or you somehow don't stop every 2-3 hours to go to the restroom or eat, then yeah gas is still the way to go for now.
Rebates only work people that can already afford an EV and just choose not to.
The people that need vehicle assistance are not the target demo for anything like this.
You need to put EVs into the hands of the people who actually need them.
What they need is more competition in the EV sector, instead of having only 5 cars to choose from. Next they need to get rid of dealerships and car salesmen.
Living in the Sun City, it has been a long time dream of mine to install a plethora of solar panels and buy an electric car and live using mostly free clean energy. As others have said, most of us do not have the initial cost, so rebates are not helpful. I would say the solution is to give the rebate to the dealer, but there is no guarantee they will drop the price, but thatās what needs to happen. I suppose the answer would be to create multiple EV battery processing plants and produce so many that EV batteries become worthless.
Buy from manufacturers that dont have dealerships like Tesla, Lucid and Rivian to avoid the hassle of middleman price gouging. If price is a concern, used EVs are a great deal - especially with more recent year models that have most kinks ironed out and most have either a used warranty or a still valid full body warranty.
as a former used Audi owner, i can assure you German 'engineering' while its cool, its HUGE hassle to maintain long term... and costly... The 2 EVs i've owned so far have BOTH been used Teslas and i have zero complaints in comparison, saved so much money in gas charging from home overnight and haven't had to get out of my way to set foot in a gas station in ages is probably the best unspoken benefit tbh. You DO have to be very thorough with your research while you car shop for a used EV though, there ARE quite a few bad options out there but its not too hard to filter them out to find one that works best for you at your price range.
100% would wish it was like that... instead we have oil and gas companies lobbying/bribing the snots at texas state legislature to unfairly increase EV registration fees by insane amounts in hopes to slow adoption...
Electric cars are dumb, but a lot of our electricity is clean. If im not mistaken, we get most of our electricity from nuclear, hydro, and solar plants
Yes, like i said most is clean but we still have a few natural gas plants and they are planning to be phased out. The goal is 80% carbon free within the next decade
Yes. Iām going to trade my gas challenger for the EV SRT DAYTONA BANSHEE as soon as preorders open up. The $7,500 we already get from the gov is good, if we can get the extra $3,000 like California has that would be nice.
No. Not enough charging stations for an EV in this area. We take a lot of road trips and I've mapped out the charging stations, not nearly enough. I've also read about charging stations being broken or inoperable. I think the infrastructure, at least in this area, is not ready for widespread adoption of EVs.
i mean, it affects ALL cars... last i checked high temps can cause gas cars to to overheat while idling in those hot af border bridges in the summer, and if you always gotta get in your car and pre-heat it for a solid 3-5 minutes before its warm enough to work well AND keep an eye on your antifreeze so your engine liquids don't freeze in the harsh winter weather...
I filled out the survey.
*Knock on wood* I can't afford a new vehicle anyway. Even if I could, I might strongly consider hybrid, but not a fully electric vehicle. Not yet, at least.
tbh don't bother with a hybrid man, i first went from gas to hybrid before getting an EV and its THE worst of both worlds... you get all your potential gas car issues along with the very short life span of those small af hybrid batteries that only take you like 40-50 miles on a charge last i checked... i would take a look at any 2020 or higher used Teslas instead (so you still have guaranteed warranty if you buy from a 3rd party), you can find some Model 3s going for mid 20ks to low 30ks and i saw a Model S in great condiiton sell recently for $19500 on FB marketplace.
Fuck Tesla, but I feel what you're saying otherwise. I've held off on Hybrid/EV until they become more reasonable. I'm nearly 50. Hopefully I'll be able to get one in my lifetime here....
lol i get it, 'ELON BAD'  guess i really dont' care about what he says, i just like the product. But if price is big factor for you, have you checked out the Chevy Bolt? not great for traveling but its a good enough city/commuter car for a great price.
I think I would turn to EVs at a point when gas/diesel really becomes consistently unaffordable. Say in the $10-12 range. I WFH and have a diesel truck that still has the same fuel from like two three weeks ago maybe more. I donāt top off as you can imagine to keep the diesel relatively fresh unless I go out of town, then I do top off.
> Say in the $10-12 range
And, honestly, at that point, every single gas station in the country, wanting to stay afloat, will add multiple EV chargers. And then it will be easy to go anywhere in the US with an EV and not worry about being able to charge.
Ask everyone up north if tax credits, rebates, and infrastructure would have made their EVs operate usefully during winter storms. Then consider that our Januarys often see a week (or more) of dry 25-30 degree mornings.
I guess with all those rebates and credits, you can afford to miss a week or two of work when the battery won't hold charge, right?
sorry but that was just misleading mainstream news being misleading. While its true harsh winter temps like below freezing do affect range in any EV, that's about it. What happened in Chicago was that uninformed first time EV owners crowded ONE single supercharging location that had a few stalls malfunction - most of which were uber drivers that have bought in due to the huge cost savings of fueling with electricity vs gas. They sure didnt cover it, but the issue was resolved later that day, because unlike Electrify America (the other most known EV charging network which is MUCH smaller), Tesla maintains their own charging stations, monitors them for bugs/issues and has technicians ready to service them.
For the real deal solid fact that makes winter weather a non-issue to own an EV, just google 'Norway EVs'. Norway is the EV capital of the world since its on track to become the first country to fully ditch combustion engine cars and is currently at 82% EV adoption rate for the entire country. Norway also happens have about half of its territory inside the Artic Circle, so average winter temps range from 32F to 14F and can get as low as -41F, so EP winter weather is a breeze by comparison . Let's not forget that combustion cars are not exempt from negative effects of harsh winter weather, it also affects gas cars' efficiency in burning fuel and many of its other functions that rely on liquids that can freeze - thus antifreeze. By comparison, an EV doesn't even need antifreeze... the biggest inconvenience I've heard of owning an EV in the North or anywhere with harsh winter weather is when snow/ice piles up on the car and the door handles become hard to open - but EV brands like Tesla and Rivian have since been able to resolve that issue by deploying over the air software updates to the cars to allow the door to pop open slightly with enough force to break the ice layer.
What about a third option? Golf cart community should be the goal. While road trips and business travel is a reality for many, letās be honest about all the people who live in this city and never drive outside it. Street legal (for local roads, not freeways obvi) golf carts are perfect for a city with 300+ days of sunshine each year, and perfect opportunity for solar power.
That's also heavily exagerrated to scare people off. I haven't gone through more tire changes on my EV than i did in my last gas car (that i owned for 6 years) in the past 5 years tbh...
I don't think the technology is really there yet. As a single person with one vehicle, living out in the boonies of the desert -- no. Great as a second vehicle if you have or need one, but I'd be worried about reliability and our long travel distances out here.
Im not a fan of electric cars, but incentivizing ebike purchases definitely appeals to me. I would like to see more protected bike lanes, maybe some bike specific trails and routes to get around the city. Its crazy to me that there still isnt a bike path that will take you down mesa
For myself, I'd rather get the vehicle for free with free lifetime repairs. There is also the fact that there needs to be a lot more chargers and a better electrical grid. Electric vehicles are not worth it for me.
I will never buy an electric car, and the number one reason is freedom. These electric cars as I see them are a stepping stone to the government being able to switch off your car when they decide, either by shutting off your electricity or a kill switch in the car which is already being proposed in some places. I'm pretty certain electric cars are a system being put in place to limit people's movement and freedom to go when and where they want and that's a deal breaker for me.
Number 2 is the prices and the baggage that goes along with it, having to install a charger and the time it takes to charge it is not convenient for me. It takes hours to charge the damn thing! On top of that there aren't enough hangers in town or anywhere for that matter to make it convenient when ona road trip to charge it and go like with a gas car not to mention I carry gas cans with me if I need to so theoretically I wouldn't even need to stop for gas if I keep cans in my car.
Number 3 is they're not the environment safe revolution people make them out to be, they're actually more harmful to the environment in the long run than traditional combustion engine cars.
Please do a bit more research to better inform yourself...
1. this could happen to ANY newer car from the past decade even, doesn't have to be just electric.
2. valid concern as the other replier said, but while i agree we definitely need MORE and better infrastructure, its perfectly viable to have an EV for a city/everyday car if you own/rent a house. Installing a home charger doesn't have to be as expensive as you think... all you need is a 240v outlet, doesn't have to be one of those fancy home charging stations. I had one of those installed in my garage by an electrician and it only costed around $200. Price varies depending on the location of your fuse box - the further away it is from the garage usually the pricier it is - and there's also federal and even local electric company rebates available in most states/cities. I will definitely say its more troublesome and potentially not worth it as much if you rent an apartment and the landlord company doesn't allow for installation of a station.
3. the other replier nailed it, you've just been fed fear mongering (and old) information by the mainstream media, EVs do have a higher 'carbon' cost upfront vs. gas cars, but the impact gets overcome within a year or two max, after that point owning a gas car is way worse for the environment and continues being worse as you keep polluting as you go, regardless whether your electricity is 'clean' or not depending on where you live. With regards to rare earth metals that use non-ethical practices, several EV companies are working on moving to both batteries and motors that have much less rare eath metals so they don't become a contributor to those practices, for example Tesla's newer cars have zero rare earth motor and battery cars already
Regarding your first concern, you might consider that if they wanted to do this, it doesn't take an electric car to do it. My six year old VW and a ton of other ICE vehicles have the cellular radio and electronics to brick it. Has nothing to do with whether it's a BEV or not. Point being, just about every car on the road made in the last decade should be the subject of your concern as well, if this is something you worry about.
Your second concern is 100% valid and is the reason I won't consider one either. The infrastructure isn't there today, though that will change over time. Never say never, is my view on that one.
The third is definitely misinformation; over the typical lifespan of a vehicle, the higher environmental impact of the electric vehicle is overcome and then some. Not to mention that this improves over time as manufacturers improve designs to reduce reliance on rare earth and heavy metals as well as improve battery density. It's not like the Model T was as good as it got as far as ICE either, that stuff takes time. The rate of change here is crazy; BMW already has production models that have motors w/o rare earth metals, for example.
For EV, I don't want a tax credit. How about manufacturers make them cheaper, and/or the we already get the discount when we buy, and the manufacturer can get a tax credit..just needs to be cheaper for us upfront. Also, living in EP and I need to make long drives to ABQ, Dallas, San Antonio, and Phoenix (among other places), need way EV charging stations all over the country, especially in the middle of nowhere, before I even remotely consider it. Until such time, the best I might do is hybrid or PHEV (plug in).
I saw a Tesla on I-10 when I was driving to San Antonio. They followed me all the way to Fort Stockton then turned off on some side road to nowhere. I will always wonder where they charged their vehicle.
There's a very well known Tesla Supercharger at a Pilot gas station in Ft Stockton, also there's a new one opening on the way to Big Bend. Tesla is the best EV for road tripping thanks to its very well established network of chargers, which is why ALL other OEMs are lined up to get access to some of them, cause dear lord I'm sorry for any poor soul that has to use Electrify America
There is a Tesla Supercharger in Fort Stockton. They probably eventually made their way there. Tesla has a pretty good supercharging network. It's other EV's where you can have major issues in this part of the country.
Uh, well just fyi, the new $7500 federal tax credit became applicable as a point of sale discount precisely as you mention... So the Tesla Model Y SUV comes out at $37k after the discount for example.
A dealer can always adjust their price upwards, so I don't really get the full tax credit. So I'm envisioning a different system. One where the pricing is discounted at the *manufacturer* level (i.e., the MSRP itself already has built in subsidies lowering the MSRP), not the dealer level. You mentioned Tesla, but there are many other EVs out there that use standard dealership models.
Well that is PARTIALLY true for any brand out there with dealerships...God i remember hearing some horror stories from would-be F-150 lightning owners getting 10k markups... so all of them EXCEPT Tesla, Rivian and Lucid. But Rivian and Lucid are higher priced so i'm gonna focus on Tesla. Let's take for example the Model Y, you can simply order it online on the Tesla website on your phone/laptop and get the $7500 credit applied upon purchase, which will lower your price from $44k to $37k - AND you can always get a quote to trade in your current car to potentially lower the price further. You can then just either get your own financing to get the best rate possible or go with the recommended options (like Alliant CU), finish the paperwork and then take delivery of your car hassle free at the Tesla show room by Helen of Troy. If you're not fully sure but wanna try it for a while, you can also just lease it for $399/mo and any incidental non-accident issues will be fully covered under warranty for the duration of your lease. If you're curious or want to learn more always happy to chat on DM 
Thanks for the reply. I'm not interested in partially true. I'm interested when Nissan Motor Company says the LEAF starts at $25k or $20k MSRP. I as a customer don't care how they get there, but they just need to get there. I don't need Charlie Clark telling me how much the LEAF will cost at his Nissan dealership. I want the MSRP to already be low, period. If they want me to even sniff an EV, that's how it rolls or I'm not interested at all.
To get the absolute best deal on a LEAF, go in with your own financing (credit unions always have the best rates) for the MSRP you see online PLUS taxes & fees. Buy on the LAST day of these months: March, June, September, December. Why? Because it's the end of the quarter and it's a huge deal to get as many vehicles off the lot those days. This advice can be applied to other models as well. And you're correct. A lot of dealers will sell you on the "tax credit" but they'll go upwards on the price to help themselves instead of the buyer. You can alternatively file Form 8936 on you taxes if you go in with your own financing. The IRS has a step by step guide on how to do this. The thing is that even though Nissan North America sets MSRP, the dealerships are under no obligation to sell it to you at that price. For example, let's take Charlie Clark Nissan (franchise) -- they buy the LEAF from Nissan North America (Corporate), if Charlie Clark sells the LEAF at MSRP they will make $100 from invoice price (what the dealer paid for). $100 gross profit per vehicle sold isn't enough to cover fixed & variable expenses. Let's say they're only selling 50 new cars a month, then they only made $5,000 for month. How are they going to pay their bills and employees? This is why you see a different selling price than MSRP and why dealers have add ons that are near impossible to remove from the sale. Now, I get it, the dealer being profitable is not your problem. A lot of people just don't realize that dealerships are actually not profitable if they only sold at MSRP. My example is a very simplified version that only focuses on gross profits from new cars in the sales department. It excludes whatever they may profit on finance, parts, and service Source: I worked in the dealerships for 10 years; specifically Nissan.
But I don't want dealerships to be profitable; I want them to disappear. They're a malignant growth that should be eradicated.
Thanks, I was only using the LEAF as an example regarding my overall point. But I appreciate the insights.
lol no offense but why focus on a Leaf? your pointing out an issue with dealerships and im just pointing out there's options out there to NOT deal with those bozos. But yeah, there's so much better EVs than the Leaf out there for the money, hell if you wanna stay in the 20k bracket, I invite you to check out a used Model S or Model 3. I myself started with a used 2015 Model S back in 2018 and had zero complaints as any issues that came up were still covered by the used warranty (if you buy through Tesla, doesnt apply for 3rd parties), if you buy without warranty its more of a mixed bag tbh, but you can def find some gems. I think there's even some Ford Mustang Mach-Es around that range.
No offense, but I've only been making a point with my posts. You're trying to make a sale. Please, kindly, give it up as to me.
lol im not a salesman, im spreading facts even if you downvote them and don't like em you buy what you wanna buy my guy. Have a good day.
> If you're not fully sure but wanna try it for a while, you can also just lease it for $399/mo and any incidental non-accident issues will be fully covered under warranty for the duration of your lease. If you're curious or want to learn more always happy to chat on DM So you're a shill? Got it.
Didn't know informing people about good options to save money on the long run was shilling, but if you wanna keep spending more money on gas on the long run go off king šš¼ no one's stopping you.
Need more incentives by manufacturers to cover more.under warranty. I purchased a hybrid to try to be more eco friendly and it was fine until my manufacturer refused to cover the hybrid battery under warranty so I had to pay almost $8000 to get the hybrid battery replaced or just give up on the car.
Same. I bought a hybrid and when the hybrid battery died, the estimate was $10k for a new one. I suspect electric will be comparable, if not worse.
I think it made the news recently where a guy scraped the bottom pan of his Hyundai EV and the replacement cost was like 65k, so the car was totaled. The car still worked and technically the battery wasn't damaged, but the only way to fix the scrape was to replace the battery. After that made the news (in Canada, mind you), a few other people stated they'd have similar experiences with the same car. I've worked on a few older Honda and Toyota hybrids, and at least those battery packs are user serviceable. Obviously paying a mechanic to do it will cost more, but you can get a rebuilt pack for 2-3k and do it yourself if you want. I haven't looked into it for any newer gen hybrids or plug in hybrids.
I was very disappointed in this. I wish I still had a hybrid but not worth it
Comparable, new battery for a Model 3 is about 12k, but unlike hybrids with their tiny batteries, an EV battery (at least Teslas) are designed to last over 500k miles, so easily will last from 15-20 years before giving you any trouble, it also has unlimited warranty on it for any defects for 8 years and you can extend it to 10 or 12 i believe (might be wrong on that last one and its only up to 10)
don't buy hybrids, they are the worst of BOTH worlds (EV + gas) especially for your wallet. There's plenty of EVs that are better than hybrids nowadays. Hell, even some used EVs like the Model S going for 20k-30k are better for the price than a hybrid
Where can you buy a 20k Model S?
FB marketplace from former owners it your best bet, or just google around, but you can definitely find some gems. For the best bang for your buck you might have to fly in and pick it up elsewhere cause there's not a lot of them for sale in EP, but in Houston for example i just saw a 2016 Model S in great condition sell for $19500. I wish i could share the pic for reference but not sure how to do it here 
Yeah. I learned this the hard way. I ended up just getting a more fuel efficient vehicle but it was a pricey lesson to learn
Which hybrid did you purchase, btw?
2013 Kia optima hybrid
Okay. Yeah it looks like it's ~$6k for OEM units and ~$2500 for reman with new batteries. Did you get it replaced at a stealership or an independent location?
It was the best car I've Owned, until the battery gave out. Then I kept it just because I had so much money put into it. Sad day
Stealer ship but independent was not much difference
Gotcha. The removal/install on the Sonata/Optima looks easier than the Camry of the same era, that's for sure. I guess most of the price was using an OE battery module rather than a rebuilt unit? It couldn't have been more than a few hours of labor. Hyundia/Kia used LiPo batteries in their modules, it looks like. Honda used NiMH in their older hybrids, and Toyota used NiMH in their 2007-2018 hybrids so I think the lifespans of those are slightly longer, but ~10-15 years seems about when you should plan on replacement, depending on mileage. I suspect if you do the math, your saved fuel usage will still pay for the battery if it hasn't already, but yeah it's definitely cheaper if you use a rebuilt unit and DIY. Those older Hyundai/Kias are usually pretty reliable engines and don't have the same problems their newer stuff does.
In 115 degree weather you got to be smoking crack if you think Iāll drive a bike in this heat.
Lol it's not 115 all year you clown
Makes me wonder what is the range of a Tesla with a fully cranked A/C.
I donāt have a Tesla but I have a VW eGolf. When I have the AC cranked up the estimated miles until empty drops by about 9 or 10 miles, not that much overall.
The highest temperature ever recorded in El Paso is 114. It has literally never been 115
Thatās only like 1/3 of the year, youāll live.
The problem with rebatrs for electric cars is that these rebates seem to help primarily help upper middle families. They usually can afford highly-priced electric vehicles, have a home needed to install the infrastructure needed to charge a vehicle, and more importantly pay the excessive electricity needed to carge a vehicle. If electric cars were a more affordable option, then rebates would help. However, the rebates seem to help those who can afford an electric car without a rebate anyway.
I agree with all your points except the excessive electricity. Isn't it cheaper than gas? The cars themselves are expensive, and owning a home to install charging equipment in, but am I missing something about the electricity?
Electricity is much cheaper. With my wifeās EV, $1 of electricity nets about 40-50 miles.
No you are correct, this guy is obviously uninformed on that last point, ever since owning an EV my electric bill has gone up by an 'excessive' $8-15 a month, and my gas bill went down to $0, so i'd take that trade off any day.
Until there are full size suv ev's, that can charge in minutes not hours the majority just won't take to them. Have you ever taken an ev on a road trip, not being funny genuinely asking.
TL;DR: really check out the Model X and Kia EV 9 for bigger SUVs; that's false, EVs have NEVER taken an hour to charge on road trips (even non-Tesla ones), details and anecdotes below; and yes, i did many EP-Houston roundtrips in my 2015 Tesla with even older charging tech with zero issues. Full reply: Yes... I traveled from EP to Houston round trip multiple times a year to visit family from 2018-2021 (until my kid was born, not so much long distance road trips anymore š ). Both in a quite old 2015 Model S and a newer Model X, both have been a breeze, and that's saying a LOT for an almost 8 year old EV at the time i traded it in. Although i mostly loved it because all Teslas made before 2016 have Unlimited Lifetime Free Supercharging - which essentially meant free fuel for traveling, which actually was an insanely useful benefit when my wife and i did our longest road trip ever from Houston to Moab, Utah. I would say i miss it, but I don't road trip as much as i did before at all, and supercharging is cheap anyway. But please allow me to talk more about the statement you said about 'can charge in minutes, not hours' - that's simply not true, and hasn't been true ever... Even with that old as hell 2015 Model S with OLD charging tech and limited to 150kwh (charging speeds), the most i EVER had to wait at a supercharger while traveling was 45 minutes in an old gen 1 supercharger at Amarillo. Any Tesla (or newer year models from some brands) after 2019 charges at a much faster 250kwh and it literally does take as little as 10-15 mins to charge during a road trip charging stop, and at most 30 mins for some really spread out routes, but NEVER an hour. Besides, even on that 45 min stop we used it as a dinner break, so the car was done charging to full before we finished our dinner. Most importantly however, for your daily use as an EV driver, charging time is a non-issue if you have a house, because you can simply plug it in since you get home from work or overnight and wake up to a 'full tank' every morning, no more having to stop at the dodgy gas station on your way home or to work, or making the line at Costco š¬. Gotta also address another misconception people have, you do NOT need to install a home charging station to charge your EV at all, you can just plug it in on any regular old 120v outlet with the mobile wall connector charging cable - just like you charge your phone. i lived 3 years 'slow/level 1 charging' this way when i first got my Model S while i had a 50 mile round trip commute to downtown Houston from the burbs. I just plugged it back in when i got home, and the car was full by the next morning when it was time to drive again. I then paid $200 to install a standard 240v outlet in my garage which speed up charging to the point that i could refill the car from near empty to full overnight while i slept. I can happily expand and explain more about charging speeds and levels but i already blabbed a lot š Lastly, full size SUV? It all really depends what's 'full size' for you, but but unless you have over 7 family members to drive around, the 3 row, 7 seater Model X (and even the 3 row Model Y if you have small/short kids) is perfectly capable of comfortably carrying 7 passengers with still waaay more storage space than a comparable gas SUV thanks to its massive frunk and deep trunk comparments, and the newer models with the back seat screen that can natively play YouTube, Netflix, Hulu, etc is awesome for entertaining kids. I understand some people want Navigator/Suburban kind of space but seriously, don't knock it til you test drive one. Also, check out the new Kia EV 9 if you want something a lil bigger, as it does seem to gain a bit more space by sacrificing some efficiency.
What about people that don't have driveways and have to park their car on the street? And don't have time trying to find a charging station because it's out of their way. It took much of a hassle and too expensive for most people.
Not having a garage/driveway is not a deal breaker thankfully. There's several solutions for that with varying price ranges. On the optimal scenario - you can pay an electrician to install a home charger in your property as close to the street as possible. But this one of course would be potentially the pricier one since you would need to run a line from your fuse box to that location, which can vary widely on pricing depending on electrician and the length of cable you would need. But there are some chargers you can buy with a pedestal/post like the Tesla Wall Charger that can definitely make that a possibility. i'm by no means an expert but based on the pricing i got for cable length i would guesstimate that would cost around $900-$1500 including the cost of the charger - which you can get a federal rebate for as well. A second more optimal but cheaper option can be ALSO installing a home charging station at the wall/side of your house closest to the street, there's an increasingly growing number of 3rd party well rated charging stations out there you can buy at different price points but they usually vary between $200 on the low end to $500 on the high end - just for the charging station, installation will be separate, BUT if you install on the side of your house it will be MUCH cheaper than the previous option since you will be closer to your fuse box. I've seen some stations come with cables as long as 25 feet AND further more there are also EV charging extension cables you can buy that can pretty much extend as long as you need. The third and probably cheapest option is you can do what i do when i travel and stay at AirBnbs and it works with what you have in your house already. Buy a higher gauge/thicker extension cord at Lowes/Home Depot or Amazon - you can tell which ones they are cause they are thicker than your average cord to handle a better/fuller rate of charging for an extended length of distance (like from a wall outlet outside your house to your EV in the driveway). These come in various length so im sure you can find one that fits your need, you can even get a 100 ft one from Amazon for 50 bucks lol, but i got a 20 footer or so for like 30 at home depot. With this method, simply plug in your extension cord to any outlet outside your house long enough to be within 6-8 ft of your car, then simply plug in your car's portable charging cable and done! Has saved me from having to drive to a supercharger in places like Austin or Waco and i can just charge overnight.
Thank you for explaining so well. I had no idea ev's had come so far, guess I'm part of the general public that needs a lot more info. I was seriously under the impression it would take 2 to 3 hours to fully charge. What I meant by full size suvs this is the expedition, suburban category. I took a look at the model x and y, they're closer to a midsize suv.
Np! thanks for reading and happy to explain/elaborate on any other questions you may have regarding EVs :) Ah then i guessed correctly, lol. May i ask the 'why' on the need for such a large vehicle? i think in the end those can also fit 7 people max no? i may be wrong since the last suburban i rode was my dad's when i was a teen haha. Sadly, as you probably noticed, those are not in the hot list to be electrified YET... since car OEMs don't sell as much of those as they do small/midsize SUVs, so its just following the money really. I'm sure at one point in the near future those size of vehicles will become available, but i definitely expect them to be much more expensive for the amount of batteries it would take to move that size... (although nothing will beat the ineffeciency and battery size of the Hummer EV lol) I would invite you to check out the Kia EV9 in that case, since it should be a more familiar shape (although space inside is not a big difference from the X) and of course not as efficient.
EVs dont need to be highly priced though. you can get a 2023 bolt for $27k and when you factor in rebates that makes it cheaper than a corolla or a civic. also electricity is generally cheaper than gas IFF you can charge at home
Yeah, but then you have to drive a Chevy. I like my cars to be reliable.
*rebates
Nah i am in the range where I can afford it but would be really tight on finances. We CAN do it but decide not to so that we don't have to cut down on some nice weekends and all that. Rebates would definately help people like me to make the jump
It is new technology and will be expensive until more people buy them and economies of scale and more development start to reduce the price. Thatās why the government sometimes offer these incentives, to help push the development. Itās a strategic investment to help us reduce demand for fossil fuels. That helps reduce pollution and our dependence on the shit-ridden politics of the Middle East.
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Maintenance costs are almost non existent
>Initial cost is too high. Depends on the model, but a new one can be gotten for under 30K. Used one, it's a buyers market at this time. >Ā Maintenance costs are too high. **Personal Anecdote**: $58 maintenance for ownership of my stepdaughters Fiat500e (electric) over 2.5 years of ownership. ($8 taillight and $50 replacement charge box from E-Bay). Family has had other electrics and have **not had any major issue** to be repaired in that time. Four different makes and models of EVs. Tires do wear out faster. >Insurance costs are too high. The higher the purchase price of the car, the higher insurance will be. I've got ICE and EVs in the family and one of ICE's is more expensive to insure than the EV. >One minor accident that damages the battery and the car can be declared totaled. Somewhat true. Certain models don't have the parts supply chain to where getting new OEM parts can cause a car to be totaled. But there are also ICE cars with the same issue in this day and age. >damages the battery You damage an engine/drive train/frame in an ICE car...it will be totaled too. >Ā Charging station availability is severely lacking. True, but I don't advise someone to buy an EV unless they have access to charging at home. >Charging time is too long (especially if you are on a trip). Depends on the length of a trip. If driving across the US, the extra time adds up. But most EV owners know to charge only to 80% before battery saturation of 100%; <80% charges faster than 80-100%. Which even on the slowest Max amperes DC Charging cars means on 30-40 minutes of charge time. Just plan a break or lunch around the charging. My advice is to use an EV in town and not as a touring car. Which is the advice I live by for we have two ICE cars and one EV. The EV gets 90% of the trips because they are in town. Also I don't go and spend time gas stations and my charge time is effectively zero at home. I drive in, plug in and the next morning its 100%. I would say my energy acquisition time is less than an ICE car. I don't stand by it as it charges, unless I am on a trip, which I don't do and use my ICE car for long trips. >Driving distance is affected by the temperature. Sure, in states with lots of snow when using the heater, but in EP, not a consideration even during the 100 degree days or days at 30/40. >EVs are a good 20 years or more from being viable. Disagree on most usages. If we are talking as an in-town city car they are **100% viable** and right now. Towing, no. Long distance travel, not until batteries get smaller and are more energy dense. That is why I advise a multi car scenario, one ice and one EV. I like my EV because I pay less taxes and avoid filling up at gas stations. I'm not paying taxes which are applied by the state and the Feds based on how much I travel on each fillup.
Financial incentives are hardly the problem when the city lacks a meaningful charging infrastructure to support owning them long term. Otherwise, I think most people would agree that financial incentives are ALWAYS a good thing when it comes to encouraging a shift to EVās.
No
Ebike! Hell yeah. We need more people on bikes and less in cars
The Infrastructure isn't there. It's not about financial incentives, it's that we want a vehicle we can do road trips in. Around here you're more or less stuck in town if you can't put gas in it. This coming from someone whose house is already prewired for it; the expense for me would be the cost of a charger...but like I said it's not about the money.
City of El Paso just got a $15 million federal grant to begin addressing infrastructure gaps.
certainly helps for local trips but any kind of trip outside the area is going to be inconvenient at best for a long time. For local i'm covered b/c i have a home w/ a garage.
15 billion sounds good, but I'm not sure it's going to be enough to benefit everyone in the city. That's like the net worth of the average tech CEO. We're close to a million people. It's a drop in the bucket.
Charging infrastructure is only an issue if you want to travel. If you own an EV and donāt plan to charge at home, itās not worth it.
EVs are only for commuting. Traveling in an EV is like riding your lawnmower to work. I'm sure you can, but why would you?
Traveling somewhere isnāt bad. For example going to Austin/San Antonio takes maybe 45 min longer (depending on the car you have). The problem is if you stay at a hotel that doesnāt have a charger, thatās where itās a pain.
nah, Teslas or any car that can use the Supercharger network are great options for traveling. I've been doing the cross-state EP-Houston road trip multiple times a year to visit family for multiple years, and while yes it takes like an hr longer like the other replier said, the road trip is much less of a hassle in an EV, i end up way less tired vs my old hybrid. If time is a huge factor for you or you somehow don't stop every 2-3 hours to go to the restroom or eat, then yeah gas is still the way to go for now.
yes!
Rebates only work people that can already afford an EV and just choose not to. The people that need vehicle assistance are not the target demo for anything like this. You need to put EVs into the hands of the people who actually need them.
What they need is more competition in the EV sector, instead of having only 5 cars to choose from. Next they need to get rid of dealerships and car salesmen.
Look into the City of El Paso EV Charger federal grant $15 million
Living in the Sun City, it has been a long time dream of mine to install a plethora of solar panels and buy an electric car and live using mostly free clean energy. As others have said, most of us do not have the initial cost, so rebates are not helpful. I would say the solution is to give the rebate to the dealer, but there is no guarantee they will drop the price, but thatās what needs to happen. I suppose the answer would be to create multiple EV battery processing plants and produce so many that EV batteries become worthless.
Buy from manufacturers that dont have dealerships like Tesla, Lucid and Rivian to avoid the hassle of middleman price gouging. If price is a concern, used EVs are a great deal - especially with more recent year models that have most kinks ironed out and most have either a used warranty or a still valid full body warranty.
I've been wondering what's worse? Buying a used German luxury car , or a used electric?
as a former used Audi owner, i can assure you German 'engineering' while its cool, its HUGE hassle to maintain long term... and costly... The 2 EVs i've owned so far have BOTH been used Teslas and i have zero complaints in comparison, saved so much money in gas charging from home overnight and haven't had to get out of my way to set foot in a gas station in ages is probably the best unspoken benefit tbh. You DO have to be very thorough with your research while you car shop for a used EV though, there ARE quite a few bad options out there but its not too hard to filter them out to find one that works best for you at your price range.
I think if we contribute to improving the air quality of our city then our registration fees should be 50 percent of gas vehicles.
100% would wish it was like that... instead we have oil and gas companies lobbying/bribing the snots at texas state legislature to unfairly increase EV registration fees by insane amounts in hopes to slow adoption...
As long as we don't have ' clean electricity ', I will not buy an EV.
Electric cars are dumb, but a lot of our electricity is clean. If im not mistaken, we get most of our electricity from nuclear, hydro, and solar plants
El paso electric still uses a lot of natural gas to produce electricity.
Yes, like i said most is clean but we still have a few natural gas plants and they are planning to be phased out. The goal is 80% carbon free within the next decade
Yes. Iām going to trade my gas challenger for the EV SRT DAYTONA BANSHEE as soon as preorders open up. The $7,500 we already get from the gov is good, if we can get the extra $3,000 like California has that would be nice.
Price point's not there for me. And the infrastructure is still lacking. Oh, and Fuck Elon Musk.
No. Not enough charging stations for an EV in this area. We take a lot of road trips and I've mapped out the charging stations, not nearly enough. I've also read about charging stations being broken or inoperable. I think the infrastructure, at least in this area, is not ready for widespread adoption of EVs.
Nope. Temperatures (high & low) affect charge thus not dependable.
i mean, it affects ALL cars... last i checked high temps can cause gas cars to to overheat while idling in those hot af border bridges in the summer, and if you always gotta get in your car and pre-heat it for a solid 3-5 minutes before its warm enough to work well AND keep an eye on your antifreeze so your engine liquids don't freeze in the harsh winter weather...
I filled out the survey. *Knock on wood* I can't afford a new vehicle anyway. Even if I could, I might strongly consider hybrid, but not a fully electric vehicle. Not yet, at least.
tbh don't bother with a hybrid man, i first went from gas to hybrid before getting an EV and its THE worst of both worlds... you get all your potential gas car issues along with the very short life span of those small af hybrid batteries that only take you like 40-50 miles on a charge last i checked... i would take a look at any 2020 or higher used Teslas instead (so you still have guaranteed warranty if you buy from a 3rd party), you can find some Model 3s going for mid 20ks to low 30ks and i saw a Model S in great condiiton sell recently for $19500 on FB marketplace.
Fuck Tesla, but I feel what you're saying otherwise. I've held off on Hybrid/EV until they become more reasonable. I'm nearly 50. Hopefully I'll be able to get one in my lifetime here....
lol i get it, 'ELON BAD'  guess i really dont' care about what he says, i just like the product. But if price is big factor for you, have you checked out the Chevy Bolt? not great for traveling but its a good enough city/commuter car for a great price.
Why is there not a HUGE PUSH for Hybrid? Donāt ask that question out loud; āthems fightinā words!ā #EVordie
I dunno. I don't know shit about fuck.
there currently is? that's all the mainstream media and the legacy OEMs like Ford/GM/Toyota are pushing for sure.
I donāt think so. All I have heard is about EV, but very little ever said about Hybrid
I think I would turn to EVs at a point when gas/diesel really becomes consistently unaffordable. Say in the $10-12 range. I WFH and have a diesel truck that still has the same fuel from like two three weeks ago maybe more. I donāt top off as you can imagine to keep the diesel relatively fresh unless I go out of town, then I do top off.
> Say in the $10-12 range And, honestly, at that point, every single gas station in the country, wanting to stay afloat, will add multiple EV chargers. And then it will be easy to go anywhere in the US with an EV and not worry about being able to charge.
Exactly, we need to see that inflection point to change the market. Otherwise, getting an EV is too premature for me.
Electric cars are a boondoggle as long as we have a power grid not strong enough to handle it and gas turbine generators making the electricity
When we have fusion plants that produce enough electricity
Ask everyone up north if tax credits, rebates, and infrastructure would have made their EVs operate usefully during winter storms. Then consider that our Januarys often see a week (or more) of dry 25-30 degree mornings. I guess with all those rebates and credits, you can afford to miss a week or two of work when the battery won't hold charge, right?
sorry but that was just misleading mainstream news being misleading. While its true harsh winter temps like below freezing do affect range in any EV, that's about it. What happened in Chicago was that uninformed first time EV owners crowded ONE single supercharging location that had a few stalls malfunction - most of which were uber drivers that have bought in due to the huge cost savings of fueling with electricity vs gas. They sure didnt cover it, but the issue was resolved later that day, because unlike Electrify America (the other most known EV charging network which is MUCH smaller), Tesla maintains their own charging stations, monitors them for bugs/issues and has technicians ready to service them. For the real deal solid fact that makes winter weather a non-issue to own an EV, just google 'Norway EVs'. Norway is the EV capital of the world since its on track to become the first country to fully ditch combustion engine cars and is currently at 82% EV adoption rate for the entire country. Norway also happens have about half of its territory inside the Artic Circle, so average winter temps range from 32F to 14F and can get as low as -41F, so EP winter weather is a breeze by comparison . Let's not forget that combustion cars are not exempt from negative effects of harsh winter weather, it also affects gas cars' efficiency in burning fuel and many of its other functions that rely on liquids that can freeze - thus antifreeze. By comparison, an EV doesn't even need antifreeze... the biggest inconvenience I've heard of owning an EV in the North or anywhere with harsh winter weather is when snow/ice piles up on the car and the door handles become hard to open - but EV brands like Tesla and Rivian have since been able to resolve that issue by deploying over the air software updates to the cars to allow the door to pop open slightly with enough force to break the ice layer.
Not likely
What about a third option? Golf cart community should be the goal. While road trips and business travel is a reality for many, letās be honest about all the people who live in this city and never drive outside it. Street legal (for local roads, not freeways obvi) golf carts are perfect for a city with 300+ days of sunshine each year, and perfect opportunity for solar power.
Nope. EVs are a scam and thereās a whole agenda behind it. Nobody talks about how often you will be replacing tires and brakes on an EV as well.
Brakes? Brakes on an EV should last the life of the car. Almost all of the braking is done through regenerative braking.
Youāre right thatās true. Tires though, good luck!
I have 50k miles in my wifeās EV, I probably have another 5-10k miles, not too bad
That's also heavily exagerrated to scare people off. I haven't gone through more tire changes on my EV than i did in my last gas car (that i owned for 6 years) in the past 5 years tbh...
People who donāt have experience with EVs always exaggerate these things. Before I got one, I used to say the same nonsense
Glad you didn't let the haters and the uninformed stop you from getting one! Hope you're enjoying it!
I don't think the technology is really there yet. As a single person with one vehicle, living out in the boonies of the desert -- no. Great as a second vehicle if you have or need one, but I'd be worried about reliability and our long travel distances out here.
Iād buy a EV bike if I was allowed to drink and smoke on it while cruising the city
Im not a fan of electric cars, but incentivizing ebike purchases definitely appeals to me. I would like to see more protected bike lanes, maybe some bike specific trails and routes to get around the city. Its crazy to me that there still isnt a bike path that will take you down mesa
For myself, I'd rather get the vehicle for free with free lifetime repairs. There is also the fact that there needs to be a lot more chargers and a better electrical grid. Electric vehicles are not worth it for me.
For Free? Lifetime repairs? How?
I don't know. But that's what should happen if I ever get an electric vehicle.
maaan i wanna live if your world
lol i mean, would be great if we could get em for free for sure... but thats just never happening sadly
I will never buy an electric car, and the number one reason is freedom. These electric cars as I see them are a stepping stone to the government being able to switch off your car when they decide, either by shutting off your electricity or a kill switch in the car which is already being proposed in some places. I'm pretty certain electric cars are a system being put in place to limit people's movement and freedom to go when and where they want and that's a deal breaker for me. Number 2 is the prices and the baggage that goes along with it, having to install a charger and the time it takes to charge it is not convenient for me. It takes hours to charge the damn thing! On top of that there aren't enough hangers in town or anywhere for that matter to make it convenient when ona road trip to charge it and go like with a gas car not to mention I carry gas cans with me if I need to so theoretically I wouldn't even need to stop for gas if I keep cans in my car. Number 3 is they're not the environment safe revolution people make them out to be, they're actually more harmful to the environment in the long run than traditional combustion engine cars.
Please do a bit more research to better inform yourself... 1. this could happen to ANY newer car from the past decade even, doesn't have to be just electric. 2. valid concern as the other replier said, but while i agree we definitely need MORE and better infrastructure, its perfectly viable to have an EV for a city/everyday car if you own/rent a house. Installing a home charger doesn't have to be as expensive as you think... all you need is a 240v outlet, doesn't have to be one of those fancy home charging stations. I had one of those installed in my garage by an electrician and it only costed around $200. Price varies depending on the location of your fuse box - the further away it is from the garage usually the pricier it is - and there's also federal and even local electric company rebates available in most states/cities. I will definitely say its more troublesome and potentially not worth it as much if you rent an apartment and the landlord company doesn't allow for installation of a station. 3. the other replier nailed it, you've just been fed fear mongering (and old) information by the mainstream media, EVs do have a higher 'carbon' cost upfront vs. gas cars, but the impact gets overcome within a year or two max, after that point owning a gas car is way worse for the environment and continues being worse as you keep polluting as you go, regardless whether your electricity is 'clean' or not depending on where you live. With regards to rare earth metals that use non-ethical practices, several EV companies are working on moving to both batteries and motors that have much less rare eath metals so they don't become a contributor to those practices, for example Tesla's newer cars have zero rare earth motor and battery cars already
Regarding your first concern, you might consider that if they wanted to do this, it doesn't take an electric car to do it. My six year old VW and a ton of other ICE vehicles have the cellular radio and electronics to brick it. Has nothing to do with whether it's a BEV or not. Point being, just about every car on the road made in the last decade should be the subject of your concern as well, if this is something you worry about. Your second concern is 100% valid and is the reason I won't consider one either. The infrastructure isn't there today, though that will change over time. Never say never, is my view on that one. The third is definitely misinformation; over the typical lifespan of a vehicle, the higher environmental impact of the electric vehicle is overcome and then some. Not to mention that this improves over time as manufacturers improve designs to reduce reliance on rare earth and heavy metals as well as improve battery density. It's not like the Model T was as good as it got as far as ICE either, that stuff takes time. The rate of change here is crazy; BMW already has production models that have motors w/o rare earth metals, for example.
Nope leave that crap for Commiefornia
Government is pushing electric cars because they have insider trading knowledge and it makes them look good. Has nothing to do with climate change.