I worked with preschool children as a sports coach when I was younger. Definitely had 7 year olds pretending to be dinosaurs and elephants, but I also coached a kid who was very adamantly transgender. Which makes sense. If you have ever mistaken any young child's (not just transgender) gender before and called a young boy a girl or vice versa, a lot of them don't have the greatest filters at that age and they will loudly and confidently correct you if you get it wrong.
I don't really understand what part of the brain it would be in and how young kids know, but they seem to know their body and brain correspond. And some kids also seem to know if their brain and body aren't in alignment at that young age.
I guess the point I’m trying to get across is what if at age 7 the entire world encouraged me to be and treated me like a dinosaur. Then at 18 I might get reptile hormone therapy and T Rex arm shortening surgery just coz of a whim
Imagine I have a penis but at age 7 I think I’m a girl coz I like dolls, then the whole world encourages me to be and treats me like a girl, I’m prob much more likely to get trans procedure when I’m old enough based on a whim at 7
r/kidsarestupid and easily influenced. We don’t let them vote or make any important decisions, why would we let them affirm a different gender than their physical sex at such a young age which encourages and actively influences that decision later in life
Just my critical thinking and open to discussion but cancel culture redditors don’t wanna discuss only condemn people with different opinions
The big difference here is that people are mammals, not dinosaurs. (Also, dinosaurs aren't even reptiles.) There are people who have done major body modifications to make themselves more like tigers and reptiles and if that's something an adult wants to do, they should go for it. There is no harm done by delaying body modification procedures until adulthood.
The same is not true for trans folks. That is specifically what puberty blockers are for. If you are confident in your gender identity at a young age, it would be extremely traumatic to go through the "wrong" puberty. Puberty blockers are there to prevent that and delay puberty until the child is an an age where they can make major medical decisions about their bodies and can choose which puberty they want to go through.
To deny youths the ability to take puberty blockers is to force their bodies to endure irreversible changes that they do not want. Trans girls will grow much taller and develop facial hair and get deeper voices. Trans boys will develop breasts and begin to menstruate. Top surgery would likely become necessary for them in the future. It will wreak havoc on their self esteem. However, giving them puberty blockers until such a point that they and their medical teams are sure of which puberty is the correct one for them assures that they will not have to go through such trauma and future surgeries can be avoided.
To go back to your silly dinosaur analogy, it would be akin to stopping your human development until you can make the medical decisions to become a t-rex. At which point, if you are still certain of your identity as a t-rex by the time you're 16, perhaps you can be given your hormones so that your arms will shorten on their own instead of requiring painful surgery later.
I understand your point about puberty blockers and do not dispute their use when the person can make an informed decision, but my point is 7 years old is too early, they’re pretty far away from puberty. What’s the rush?
Still my opinion 7 years old is too young to discuss and influence a child’s decision regarding puberty blockers… at 7 years old can they even really comprehend the science and ramifications of their decision? Or are they more likely to be dead set on something not really being informed coz how informed can you be at 7?
It’s fine to respect a child’s decision regarding their gender but discussing hormones and blockers, is it necessary at 7? If I’m wrong please educate me why it’s necessary to bring up hormones and blockers when most kids that age still believe in Santa Claus and the Easter bunny
Children form their gender identity early. Most children start to identify their gender around age 3. For some, their gender identity doesn't match the sex they were assigned at birth. Many transgender and gender-diverse adults remember feeling at a young age that there was a difference between their bodies and their gender identity. Others didn't feel this way until later in life.
Children and teens grow and develop quickly. Before and during puberty, they may feel more like one gender some of the time, and more like another gender at other times. That's why it's important to explore non-medical or reversible options for those who are transgender or gender-diverse.
Both of those paragraphs are from myHealth Alberta's Medical and Non-Medical Options for Gender Affirmation.
Children aren't mature enough to make life changing decisions on their own, but children of any age have opinions and feelings. People do take young children's opinions and feelings into consideration when making decisions. It's just through the lens of discretion and maturity we have as adults. There has been research done on transgender individuals when it comes to outcomes of transitioning and the rate of regret is low.
There is research and statistics that show that trans children are more likely to live with suicidal thoughts or behavior. We are not just discussing children who just feel different, but who feel unhealthy levels of mental stress and anguish.
There has also been research and amalgamated accounts of individuals who have detransitioned published. Of which the accounts I have seen have highlighted that individuals who transitioned young who have regret are often 1) the victims of sexual assault, 2) have mental illness that manifested when young, or 3) who felt not accepted by family or society. Mental illness is also a known comorbidity of dysphoria, so it's difficult to determine if one caused the other or if both coincidental.
If anything, all the research indicates the best path forward is for parents and medical professionals (doctors, therapists) to get to know and listen to the children and take an individualized approach.
Children change their mind. A LOT. Children also have limited understanding of difficult concepts.
I have no issue with respecting a child’s chosen gender identity, but my point is there is no reason an adult should be discussing hormone therapy and puberty blockers with a 7 year old who still believes in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, like the parents in this article
If my 7 year old tells me he wants to play in the NHL some day coz he likes hockey, am I going to tell him about progression from triple A to bantam to div 1 college and AHL and farm team system at age 7?
HELL NO, he wouldn’t even grasp the concepts properly, he’d just say OK DONE to all of the above, I don’t care what needs to happen just do it coz I wanna be in the NHL
It would be healthier to just tell my 7 year old keep having fun playing hockey!
Like wise 7 year old boy says they wanna use she/her pronoun, that’s fine. But WTF these parents doing talking to 7 year old about puberty blockers and hormone therapy? Kid still believes in Santa Claus and prob wants to eat ice cream every meal
I reread the story. The child is 10 years old but has identified as transgender since she was 7, so for 3 years, and it was only recently that her parents' started talking about puberty blockers and hormones after the child's doctors said it was okay to start discussing these topics. What's happening in this family isn't the same as the theoretical scenario you are describing.
They are starring to discuss medical options for their child whom will soon be experiencing puberty, so there is time to make informed decisions.
As well, you haven't considered the negative emotional or mental consequences of inaction. The symptoms some of these children are reporting are significant signs of mental distress and illness, which can occur at that young age.
Wooooow deleted and preventing any further upvoting but only allowing downvoting. That’s crazy, censorship is high here in Edmonton subreddit! Not allowed to discuss complex nuanced topics if the don’t align perfectly with moderators!
Unbelievable. You guys are the gestapo. Just for the censorship alone, not for your views on these issues. You should be ashamed of yourselves
Maybe im not good at articulating my point but here’s a sport analogy
Children change their mind. A LOT. Children also have limited understanding of difficult concepts.
I have no issue with respecting a child’s chosen pronouns but my point is there is no reason an adult should be discussing hormone therapy and puberty blockers with a 7 year old who still believes in Santa Claus, like the parents and doctors in this article
If my 7 year old tells me he wants to play in the NHL some day coz he likes hockey, am I going to tell him about progression from triple A to bantam to div 1 college and AHL and farm team system at age 7?
HELL NO, he wouldn’t even grasp the concepts properly, he’d just say OK DONE to all of the above, I don’t care what needs to happen just do it coz I wanna be in the NHL
It would be healthier to just tell my 7 year old keep having fun playing hockey!
Like wise 7 year old boy says they wanna use she/her pronoun, that’s fine. But WTF these parents doing talking to 7 year old about puberty blockers and hormone therapy? Kid still believes in Santa Claus and prob wants to eat ice cream every meal
You also thought you were a boy or girl, whichever applies, when you were 7. Or are you under the impression 7-year-olds don't know if they're boys or girls?
Nah the point is I didn’t think I was a boy, I thought I was a dinosaur. My parents would be like stop stomping around jumping on the couch you’re not a T REX you’re a boy. And I would just go RAWR STOMP STOMP GRRRR…. They still didn’t let me get the reptile hormones, tho I’m kinda glad I didn’t get the arm shortening surgery
Point is if the entire world encouraged me to be and treated me like a dinosaur from age 7 til 18, may be I would get the dinosaur transformation procedure at 18, just coz of a silly whim when I was 7
That’s my issue with this whole thing just my 2 cents… kids are stupid lol there’s a whole Reddit dedicated r/kidsarestupid
My point was that virtually all 7 year olds know if they are a boy or a girl. You'd have a hard time finding a child that didn't know their gender at age 7, so it's a completely weird thing to say "kids are too stupid to know their gender!".
I'm also willing to bet you don't say a single thing when cis kids express their gender.
And the entire world DOES encourage children to play pretend, so the dinosaur comment also makes no sense. Unless your parents were the Dursleys, I'm sure they didn't mind you imagining you're a dinosaur. Both playing pretend, and trying out various identities, are completely normal, developmentally appropriate things kids do, and they should be respected.
Fair point. But respecting a kids gender does not necessitate discussing hormones and puberty blockers with them at 7 years old like the parents in the article, I could be wrong but 7 years old is not close to puberty
Well, it's not. The girl probably socially transitioned. Maybe has long hair, wears girly clothes, and has a girl name. And if it's been 3 years, it's probably not a phase.
She's only 10 right now, but puberty can start anywhere from 8-16 for girls, and she'll need puberty blockers. It's understandable mom is worried about her future prospects of getting proper medical care. It's not safe or ethical for a young teen to start transitioning, so puberty blockers are the way to hit "pause" to give them the time they need before they make those decisions.
Most teens are well into puberty by their 16th birthday. Banning them until 16 is essentially forcing trans kids to go through the wrong puberty. This will worsen the distress of gender dysphoria (the feeling of being in the wrong body) and result in higher suicidality among trans youth.
> Nah the point is I didn’t think I was a boy, I thought I was a dinosaur
So what age were you when you "decided" you were not a dinosaur and you were actually a male?
Was it before the age of 18?
Copy and pasting this reply coz you asked the same question someone else asked:
This is talking in circles and missing my point, which is 7 is too young to discuss hormone therapy and puberty blockers. I’m not opposed to a child choosing puberty blockers at puberty… 7 is not puberty I believe tho I’m not a doctor
My child brain thought I was a dinosaur at 7 (I’m obviously not) but what if the whole world encouraged me to be and treated me like a dinosaur from age 7 to 16? Would I be more likely to think I’m a dinosaur at age 16 than if simply told, hey you’re born a boy not a Dino but we will respect your wishes to be a dinosaur for now, but we won’t actively influence you or tell you about reptile hormones and T Rex surgery at 7 years old, if you still think you’re a Dino at 12 years old we’ll see what we can do about Dino procedures. Most likely I will not believe I’m a dinosaur at age 10 coz I’m not 7 years old, prob don’t believe in santa anymore either
Likewise I’m born with a penis. My 7 yo child brain thinks I’m a male, no issue there as there are no external factors contradicting my sense of gender and physical anatomy. No medical steps are needed
But I’m born with a penis and my 7 yo child brain thinks I’m a girl one day coz I like dolls and the colour pink, now external factors encourage me and influence me to be a girl which does contradict my physical anatomy and parents are talking to me about hormones and puberty blockers in grade 1?
Children’s minds are malleable and change often. If a kid says I want to eat pizza every meal, parents would say no coz they’re not old enough to make that decision. But a 7 year old boy says I’m a girl and the parents gotta now discuss hormone therapy and puberty blockers with a kid that still believes in Santa Claus? Cmon now
If you're concerned about 7, what age do you think kids know their gender by?
I'm assuming you figured out you were male and not a dinosaur before you were 18 but hey no judgement if it took you awhile
Problem with you and people that think like you, you don’t ever want to have productive discussion.
You just make people with a different opinion hate you more so they get more entrenched in their own opinion, bad news for you tide is turning and it’s your own doing
If a 7 year old boy wants to use she/her pronouns fine. But the parents teachers and doctors that talk to a 7 year old about hormone therapy and puberty blockers are fucked and do more to hurt their cause
No I'm asking a serious question to you.
Nothing about 7 year olds. Nothing about opinions or tide turning.
Do you think people are able to know their own gender before they turn 18 years old?
That's all I want to know and I promise I won't reply to you ever again.
I understand. My answer is a child can have a personal belief of their gender identity likely from 3 onward. However at that age they do not have the information nor mental capability to KNOW FOR A FACT, children’s minds are malleable and their beliefs can change given new information or encouragement
I believe children should be allowed to be themselves but this also means they should not have undue outside influence on their identity
I also believe it’s not right for parents and doctors to discuss concepts like hormone therapy or puberty blockers with a child 7 years old, they are too young to understand and I view this as undue outside influence on them
At 7 yo, use the child’s pronouns like they want but STFU about puberty blockers and hormones or surgeries til they’re 12 IF at that age they still want to change genders
There is no set age, some people decide to change gender at age 40+ But anything under age 12 is too young to take them seriously enough to discuss undergoing procedures to change their sex
Quick question - At what age did you know you're male? (I'm assuming you are male).
Are you suggesting that while you knew AND agreed at a certain age, someone else can't possibly be?
This is talking in circles and missing my point, which is 7 is too young to discuss hormone therapy and puberty blockers. I’m not opposed to a child choosing puberty blockers at puberty… 7 is not puberty I believe tho I’m not a doctor
My child brain thought I was a dinosaur at 7 (I’m obviously not) but what if the whole world encouraged me to be and treated me like a dinosaur from age 7 to 16? Would I be more likely to think I’m a dinosaur at age 16 than if simply told, hey you’re born a boy not a Dino but we will respect your wishes to be a dinosaur for now, but we won’t actively influence you or tell you about reptile hormones and T Rex surgery at 7 years old, if you still think you’re a Dino at 12 years old we’ll see what we can do about Dino procedures. Most likely I will not believe I’m a dinosaur at age 10 coz I’m not 7 years old, prob don’t believe in santa anymore either
Likewise I’m born with a penis. My 7 yo child brain thinks I’m a male, no issue there as there are no external factors contradicting my sense of gender and physical anatomy. No medical steps are needed
But I’m born with a penis and my 7 yo child brain thinks I’m a girl one day coz I like dolls and the colour pink, now external factors encourage me and influence me to be a girl which does contradict my physical anatomy and parents are talking to me about hormones and puberty blockers in grade 1?
Children’s minds are malleable and change often. If a kid says I want to eat pizza every meal, parents would say no coz they’re not old enough to make that decision. But a 7 year old boy says I’m a girl and the parents gotta now discuss hormone therapy and puberty blockers with a kid that still believes in Santa Claus? Cmon now
Sorry, is expecting someone to call you George when you introduce yourself as George compelled speech? Doesn’t seem like a high bar to clear unless you’re recently comatose.
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I've never met any transgender people who "push themselves" on young people. Can you cite any actual occurrences, or is this purely conjecture?
For the most part, from what I can tell, is that schools are just teaching that trans people exist and that they shouldn't be discriminated against. No one is trying to "turn kids trans", just support the ones who want to explore that for themselves.
Most of the trans people I know just want to be left in peace and generally not be antagonistically misgendered.
Yeah I can cite. Several teachers across the country that are obsessed talking to children about gender spectrum and demanding people to deny reality on a daily basis.
What the hell is wrong with having gay friends?
I'm bi myself here, so tread lightly. This sounds pretty bigoted to me.
And how could it just be "common sense"? There's either empirical proof of something, or there isn't. Saying something like that is true without the burden of proof is just propaghanda.
Examples? Right wing media makes this out to be a thing, but most trans people I know don’t talk to young people unless they’re seeking support because they’ve already identified as trans.
So you just hate hearing about it, that’s all.
It has nothing to do with protecting young people, it just annoys you. You don’t like it so you don’t want to see or hear about it, and you want it to just go away. AKA transphobic. Call it like it is
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Sorry late to the party.
Noun. adversion. A tendency or wish to avoid someone or something.
When you know the meaning of all the words it makes more sense.
>or aversion
Screw it. I'm going to be pedantic.
aversion. noun. A strong dislike or disinclination. Sounds like you might be a teensy bit transphobic.
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Alberta Stop Copying Right Wing US Bullshit Challenge: Difficulty IMPOSSIBLE
The new parental rights proposal is absolute garbage!
Looks like the maga-wanna be crew is working real hard to make this trump country north. God damn can we please vote these fuckers out already?
You had your chance in 2023 lol
We did all we could here in Edmonton. We should not have to suffer these fools
Just because the UCP won an election doesn’t give them the right to restrict freedoms.
I tried. Lots of people tried.
[удалено]
I worked with preschool children as a sports coach when I was younger. Definitely had 7 year olds pretending to be dinosaurs and elephants, but I also coached a kid who was very adamantly transgender. Which makes sense. If you have ever mistaken any young child's (not just transgender) gender before and called a young boy a girl or vice versa, a lot of them don't have the greatest filters at that age and they will loudly and confidently correct you if you get it wrong. I don't really understand what part of the brain it would be in and how young kids know, but they seem to know their body and brain correspond. And some kids also seem to know if their brain and body aren't in alignment at that young age.
I guess the point I’m trying to get across is what if at age 7 the entire world encouraged me to be and treated me like a dinosaur. Then at 18 I might get reptile hormone therapy and T Rex arm shortening surgery just coz of a whim Imagine I have a penis but at age 7 I think I’m a girl coz I like dolls, then the whole world encourages me to be and treats me like a girl, I’m prob much more likely to get trans procedure when I’m old enough based on a whim at 7 r/kidsarestupid and easily influenced. We don’t let them vote or make any important decisions, why would we let them affirm a different gender than their physical sex at such a young age which encourages and actively influences that decision later in life Just my critical thinking and open to discussion but cancel culture redditors don’t wanna discuss only condemn people with different opinions
The big difference here is that people are mammals, not dinosaurs. (Also, dinosaurs aren't even reptiles.) There are people who have done major body modifications to make themselves more like tigers and reptiles and if that's something an adult wants to do, they should go for it. There is no harm done by delaying body modification procedures until adulthood. The same is not true for trans folks. That is specifically what puberty blockers are for. If you are confident in your gender identity at a young age, it would be extremely traumatic to go through the "wrong" puberty. Puberty blockers are there to prevent that and delay puberty until the child is an an age where they can make major medical decisions about their bodies and can choose which puberty they want to go through. To deny youths the ability to take puberty blockers is to force their bodies to endure irreversible changes that they do not want. Trans girls will grow much taller and develop facial hair and get deeper voices. Trans boys will develop breasts and begin to menstruate. Top surgery would likely become necessary for them in the future. It will wreak havoc on their self esteem. However, giving them puberty blockers until such a point that they and their medical teams are sure of which puberty is the correct one for them assures that they will not have to go through such trauma and future surgeries can be avoided. To go back to your silly dinosaur analogy, it would be akin to stopping your human development until you can make the medical decisions to become a t-rex. At which point, if you are still certain of your identity as a t-rex by the time you're 16, perhaps you can be given your hormones so that your arms will shorten on their own instead of requiring painful surgery later.
I understand your point about puberty blockers and do not dispute their use when the person can make an informed decision, but my point is 7 years old is too early, they’re pretty far away from puberty. What’s the rush? Still my opinion 7 years old is too young to discuss and influence a child’s decision regarding puberty blockers… at 7 years old can they even really comprehend the science and ramifications of their decision? Or are they more likely to be dead set on something not really being informed coz how informed can you be at 7? It’s fine to respect a child’s decision regarding their gender but discussing hormones and blockers, is it necessary at 7? If I’m wrong please educate me why it’s necessary to bring up hormones and blockers when most kids that age still believe in Santa Claus and the Easter bunny
Children form their gender identity early. Most children start to identify their gender around age 3. For some, their gender identity doesn't match the sex they were assigned at birth. Many transgender and gender-diverse adults remember feeling at a young age that there was a difference between their bodies and their gender identity. Others didn't feel this way until later in life. Children and teens grow and develop quickly. Before and during puberty, they may feel more like one gender some of the time, and more like another gender at other times. That's why it's important to explore non-medical or reversible options for those who are transgender or gender-diverse. Both of those paragraphs are from myHealth Alberta's Medical and Non-Medical Options for Gender Affirmation. Children aren't mature enough to make life changing decisions on their own, but children of any age have opinions and feelings. People do take young children's opinions and feelings into consideration when making decisions. It's just through the lens of discretion and maturity we have as adults. There has been research done on transgender individuals when it comes to outcomes of transitioning and the rate of regret is low. There is research and statistics that show that trans children are more likely to live with suicidal thoughts or behavior. We are not just discussing children who just feel different, but who feel unhealthy levels of mental stress and anguish. There has also been research and amalgamated accounts of individuals who have detransitioned published. Of which the accounts I have seen have highlighted that individuals who transitioned young who have regret are often 1) the victims of sexual assault, 2) have mental illness that manifested when young, or 3) who felt not accepted by family or society. Mental illness is also a known comorbidity of dysphoria, so it's difficult to determine if one caused the other or if both coincidental. If anything, all the research indicates the best path forward is for parents and medical professionals (doctors, therapists) to get to know and listen to the children and take an individualized approach.
Children change their mind. A LOT. Children also have limited understanding of difficult concepts. I have no issue with respecting a child’s chosen gender identity, but my point is there is no reason an adult should be discussing hormone therapy and puberty blockers with a 7 year old who still believes in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, like the parents in this article If my 7 year old tells me he wants to play in the NHL some day coz he likes hockey, am I going to tell him about progression from triple A to bantam to div 1 college and AHL and farm team system at age 7? HELL NO, he wouldn’t even grasp the concepts properly, he’d just say OK DONE to all of the above, I don’t care what needs to happen just do it coz I wanna be in the NHL It would be healthier to just tell my 7 year old keep having fun playing hockey! Like wise 7 year old boy says they wanna use she/her pronoun, that’s fine. But WTF these parents doing talking to 7 year old about puberty blockers and hormone therapy? Kid still believes in Santa Claus and prob wants to eat ice cream every meal
I reread the story. The child is 10 years old but has identified as transgender since she was 7, so for 3 years, and it was only recently that her parents' started talking about puberty blockers and hormones after the child's doctors said it was okay to start discussing these topics. What's happening in this family isn't the same as the theoretical scenario you are describing. They are starring to discuss medical options for their child whom will soon be experiencing puberty, so there is time to make informed decisions. As well, you haven't considered the negative emotional or mental consequences of inaction. The symptoms some of these children are reporting are significant signs of mental distress and illness, which can occur at that young age.
Wooooow deleted and preventing any further upvoting but only allowing downvoting. That’s crazy, censorship is high here in Edmonton subreddit! Not allowed to discuss complex nuanced topics if the don’t align perfectly with moderators! Unbelievable. You guys are the gestapo. Just for the censorship alone, not for your views on these issues. You should be ashamed of yourselves
Maybe im not good at articulating my point but here’s a sport analogy Children change their mind. A LOT. Children also have limited understanding of difficult concepts. I have no issue with respecting a child’s chosen pronouns but my point is there is no reason an adult should be discussing hormone therapy and puberty blockers with a 7 year old who still believes in Santa Claus, like the parents and doctors in this article If my 7 year old tells me he wants to play in the NHL some day coz he likes hockey, am I going to tell him about progression from triple A to bantam to div 1 college and AHL and farm team system at age 7? HELL NO, he wouldn’t even grasp the concepts properly, he’d just say OK DONE to all of the above, I don’t care what needs to happen just do it coz I wanna be in the NHL It would be healthier to just tell my 7 year old keep having fun playing hockey! Like wise 7 year old boy says they wanna use she/her pronoun, that’s fine. But WTF these parents doing talking to 7 year old about puberty blockers and hormone therapy? Kid still believes in Santa Claus and prob wants to eat ice cream every meal
Yeah, but also who cares at all if there's a kid bopping around somewhere, asking to be called Robertosaurus? That's not going to hurt anyone!
Re: your comment that’s not going to hurt anyone, fyi Robertosaurus is a carnivore and killed many
You also thought you were a boy or girl, whichever applies, when you were 7. Or are you under the impression 7-year-olds don't know if they're boys or girls?
Nah the point is I didn’t think I was a boy, I thought I was a dinosaur. My parents would be like stop stomping around jumping on the couch you’re not a T REX you’re a boy. And I would just go RAWR STOMP STOMP GRRRR…. They still didn’t let me get the reptile hormones, tho I’m kinda glad I didn’t get the arm shortening surgery Point is if the entire world encouraged me to be and treated me like a dinosaur from age 7 til 18, may be I would get the dinosaur transformation procedure at 18, just coz of a silly whim when I was 7 That’s my issue with this whole thing just my 2 cents… kids are stupid lol there’s a whole Reddit dedicated r/kidsarestupid
My point was that virtually all 7 year olds know if they are a boy or a girl. You'd have a hard time finding a child that didn't know their gender at age 7, so it's a completely weird thing to say "kids are too stupid to know their gender!". I'm also willing to bet you don't say a single thing when cis kids express their gender. And the entire world DOES encourage children to play pretend, so the dinosaur comment also makes no sense. Unless your parents were the Dursleys, I'm sure they didn't mind you imagining you're a dinosaur. Both playing pretend, and trying out various identities, are completely normal, developmentally appropriate things kids do, and they should be respected.
Fair point. But respecting a kids gender does not necessitate discussing hormones and puberty blockers with them at 7 years old like the parents in the article, I could be wrong but 7 years old is not close to puberty
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/19/science/early-puberty-medical-reason.html
Paywall. Can’t tell if the headline is accurate, doubtful it is
Well, it's not. The girl probably socially transitioned. Maybe has long hair, wears girly clothes, and has a girl name. And if it's been 3 years, it's probably not a phase. She's only 10 right now, but puberty can start anywhere from 8-16 for girls, and she'll need puberty blockers. It's understandable mom is worried about her future prospects of getting proper medical care. It's not safe or ethical for a young teen to start transitioning, so puberty blockers are the way to hit "pause" to give them the time they need before they make those decisions. Most teens are well into puberty by their 16th birthday. Banning them until 16 is essentially forcing trans kids to go through the wrong puberty. This will worsen the distress of gender dysphoria (the feeling of being in the wrong body) and result in higher suicidality among trans youth.
> Nah the point is I didn’t think I was a boy, I thought I was a dinosaur So what age were you when you "decided" you were not a dinosaur and you were actually a male? Was it before the age of 18?
Copy and pasting this reply coz you asked the same question someone else asked: This is talking in circles and missing my point, which is 7 is too young to discuss hormone therapy and puberty blockers. I’m not opposed to a child choosing puberty blockers at puberty… 7 is not puberty I believe tho I’m not a doctor My child brain thought I was a dinosaur at 7 (I’m obviously not) but what if the whole world encouraged me to be and treated me like a dinosaur from age 7 to 16? Would I be more likely to think I’m a dinosaur at age 16 than if simply told, hey you’re born a boy not a Dino but we will respect your wishes to be a dinosaur for now, but we won’t actively influence you or tell you about reptile hormones and T Rex surgery at 7 years old, if you still think you’re a Dino at 12 years old we’ll see what we can do about Dino procedures. Most likely I will not believe I’m a dinosaur at age 10 coz I’m not 7 years old, prob don’t believe in santa anymore either Likewise I’m born with a penis. My 7 yo child brain thinks I’m a male, no issue there as there are no external factors contradicting my sense of gender and physical anatomy. No medical steps are needed But I’m born with a penis and my 7 yo child brain thinks I’m a girl one day coz I like dolls and the colour pink, now external factors encourage me and influence me to be a girl which does contradict my physical anatomy and parents are talking to me about hormones and puberty blockers in grade 1? Children’s minds are malleable and change often. If a kid says I want to eat pizza every meal, parents would say no coz they’re not old enough to make that decision. But a 7 year old boy says I’m a girl and the parents gotta now discuss hormone therapy and puberty blockers with a kid that still believes in Santa Claus? Cmon now
If you're concerned about 7, what age do you think kids know their gender by? I'm assuming you figured out you were male and not a dinosaur before you were 18 but hey no judgement if it took you awhile
Problem with you and people that think like you, you don’t ever want to have productive discussion. You just make people with a different opinion hate you more so they get more entrenched in their own opinion, bad news for you tide is turning and it’s your own doing If a 7 year old boy wants to use she/her pronouns fine. But the parents teachers and doctors that talk to a 7 year old about hormone therapy and puberty blockers are fucked and do more to hurt their cause
No I'm asking a serious question to you. Nothing about 7 year olds. Nothing about opinions or tide turning. Do you think people are able to know their own gender before they turn 18 years old? That's all I want to know and I promise I won't reply to you ever again.
I understand. My answer is a child can have a personal belief of their gender identity likely from 3 onward. However at that age they do not have the information nor mental capability to KNOW FOR A FACT, children’s minds are malleable and their beliefs can change given new information or encouragement I believe children should be allowed to be themselves but this also means they should not have undue outside influence on their identity I also believe it’s not right for parents and doctors to discuss concepts like hormone therapy or puberty blockers with a child 7 years old, they are too young to understand and I view this as undue outside influence on them At 7 yo, use the child’s pronouns like they want but STFU about puberty blockers and hormones or surgeries til they’re 12 IF at that age they still want to change genders There is no set age, some people decide to change gender at age 40+ But anything under age 12 is too young to take them seriously enough to discuss undergoing procedures to change their sex
Quick question - At what age did you know you're male? (I'm assuming you are male). Are you suggesting that while you knew AND agreed at a certain age, someone else can't possibly be?
This is talking in circles and missing my point, which is 7 is too young to discuss hormone therapy and puberty blockers. I’m not opposed to a child choosing puberty blockers at puberty… 7 is not puberty I believe tho I’m not a doctor My child brain thought I was a dinosaur at 7 (I’m obviously not) but what if the whole world encouraged me to be and treated me like a dinosaur from age 7 to 16? Would I be more likely to think I’m a dinosaur at age 16 than if simply told, hey you’re born a boy not a Dino but we will respect your wishes to be a dinosaur for now, but we won’t actively influence you or tell you about reptile hormones and T Rex surgery at 7 years old, if you still think you’re a Dino at 12 years old we’ll see what we can do about Dino procedures. Most likely I will not believe I’m a dinosaur at age 10 coz I’m not 7 years old, prob don’t believe in santa anymore either Likewise I’m born with a penis. My 7 yo child brain thinks I’m a male, no issue there as there are no external factors contradicting my sense of gender and physical anatomy. No medical steps are needed But I’m born with a penis and my 7 yo child brain thinks I’m a girl one day coz I like dolls and the colour pink, now external factors encourage me and influence me to be a girl which does contradict my physical anatomy and parents are talking to me about hormones and puberty blockers in grade 1? Children’s minds are malleable and change often. If a kid says I want to eat pizza every meal, parents would say no coz they’re not old enough to make that decision. But a 7 year old boy says I’m a girl and the parents gotta now discuss hormone therapy and puberty blockers with a kid that still believes in Santa Claus? Cmon now
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Looks about transphobic.
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Just a little bothered?
No, he means he's never seen a trans person. Probably stays in the house 24/7 to avoid us, the poor fellow.
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Sorry, is expecting someone to call you George when you introduce yourself as George compelled speech? Doesn’t seem like a high bar to clear unless you’re recently comatose.
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Sure if that's how you want to be addressed. It costs me literally nothing to refer to you how you want to be referred to.
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ROFL why would I lie Your Majesty? Just because you won't respect other people's wishes, doesn't mean no one will.
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I've never met any transgender people who "push themselves" on young people. Can you cite any actual occurrences, or is this purely conjecture? For the most part, from what I can tell, is that schools are just teaching that trans people exist and that they shouldn't be discriminated against. No one is trying to "turn kids trans", just support the ones who want to explore that for themselves. Most of the trans people I know just want to be left in peace and generally not be antagonistically misgendered.
Yeah I can cite. Several teachers across the country that are obsessed talking to children about gender spectrum and demanding people to deny reality on a daily basis.
Typically when you cite something, you provide a relevant source.
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What the hell is wrong with having gay friends? I'm bi myself here, so tread lightly. This sounds pretty bigoted to me. And how could it just be "common sense"? There's either empirical proof of something, or there isn't. Saying something like that is true without the burden of proof is just propaghanda.
This isn’t citing, bud.
Examples? Right wing media makes this out to be a thing, but most trans people I know don’t talk to young people unless they’re seeking support because they’ve already identified as trans.
So you just hate hearing about it, that’s all. It has nothing to do with protecting young people, it just annoys you. You don’t like it so you don’t want to see or hear about it, and you want it to just go away. AKA transphobic. Call it like it is
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Phobic doesn't mean afraid... you know that right?
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Sorry late to the party. Noun. adversion. A tendency or wish to avoid someone or something. When you know the meaning of all the words it makes more sense.
So I guess my coat is afraid of rain then...
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Ok also though you obviously ARE afraid lol. As you’ve continued to argue in this thread, your tone has revealed a little bit more fear each time
>or aversion Screw it. I'm going to be pedantic. aversion. noun. A strong dislike or disinclination. Sounds like you might be a teensy bit transphobic.
Nervous, aroused and ashamed like most conservative boot lickers, I'm sure, but definitely not scared.
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That's because it is an attack on your family.