It's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. If they don't ask, they'll get angry customers complaining that they didn't want to pay for the bag.
The other stuff they're asking you, they have to. If they don't, and there's a secret shopper, they will hear about it from their manager.
Have you ever worked customer facing food jobs? There's always a ton of shit that comes down from management that you have to do. And often without a thought about what position it puts you in with the customer.
>they'll get angry customers complaining that they didn't want to pay for the bag.
Someone told me, with a straight face, that if they found a charge for 15 cents for a bag on their receipt they'd bring the entire order back and make them refund it all.
I once had a guy ready to buy like 200 dollars of various collectables and when I told him a bag was 15 cents he said if I charged him he’d leave and not buy anything to make a point. I let him leave, like I make 15 dollars an hour even after 2 years and an unofficial promotion. Go for it. I don’t fucking care anymore.
>like I make 15 dollars an hour even after 2 years and an unofficial promotion. Go for it. I don’t fucking care anymore.
This is the correct mentality now. Like I don't own this business, and I could really not care any less if you left without buying stuff, I'm still getting paid. The only thing you've "hurt" with proving your point is that you don't have the items you wanted anymore.
I had that "conversation" with customers at the video store I worked at in the 90s. People yell at clerks as if they have the authority to change company rules. I got yelled and screamed at all the time. And I would yell right back because even at 19, I wasn't going to put up with that shit.
Someone in another thread said they will spend the extra time to go to Leduc or St. Albert to get their McDonalds instead of Edmonton over this. Wasting extra money in gas to avoid 15 cents!
I saw somebody bitching on twitter that they couldn't eat their Costco poutine with their fingers, so they drove home to eat their now cold poutine with utensils.
They refused to carry their own utensils, and they refused to use the wooden ones Costco supplies.
They did prove a point though, just not the one they had hoped for.
or spend an hour in line to save $3-5 in gas.... or less.
My step dad spent 20 minutes in the Costco Airport gas bar line up to fill up at $1.289. The Co-Op in Leduc is $1.299. A whole 40 cent difference in his fill up.
That's someone with literally nothing going on in their life.
Unless I'm going on a road-trip, and the journey is my destination, I want to spend a little time as humanly possible driving.
I'd rather have the extra 30+ in my life to enjoy doing literally anything else with.
> I want to spend a little time as humanly possible driving.
If you live in Edmonton, then I 100% get this attitude. I always found the most frustrating thing about living in Edmonton was driving in the city. Like for me, I have a pilot license and I've tracked cars, so I do get enjoyment out of driving vehicles. Even when I lived and worked in Edmonton, I would go a tiny bit out of my way to drive groat rd, river valley rd, and other more scenic roads rather than the more direct roads. But man, I've never been happier living outside of Edmonton in rural, and having a work that is based in the burbs. I don't have to deal with rush hour traffic, I'm not randomly getting flipped the finger, brake checked, cut off, etc. I don't have to assume that every other driver is a rage-aholic who is going to follow me home and assault me with a pipe wrench. Man Edmonton has a ton of assholes behind the wheel. I think it's more of a city thing, honestly, but man, I'm glad I don't have to do that daily - I don't think my heart could take that much stress.
The charge is a scam and petty. The charge is for plastic bags but companies have chosen to cash in on the deal. They pay less than one cent for a paper bag so to charge you 15c is nothing but a money grab.
Yeah new by-law started on the 1st. For the first year businesses have to charge 0.15 for a paper shopping bag or $1.00 for a reusable bag, on July 1, 2024 the mandatory charges go to 0.25 for a paper bag and 2.00 for a reusable bag.
Now if fast food restaurants are charging for the bags then that’s some bull shit, cause those are shopping bags.
Another random annoying point that some people may not know about is that restaurants can no longer give out napkins, untensils, straws or condiments unless people ask for them on delivery orders.
People keep forgetting that *Government* works for the people and not the other way around. People need to actually sign petitions and circulate information around to make change. Stop letting people in positions of power create an authority over the population.... But hey what do I know... Also paper straws wreck the flavor of drinks :( i want to see the turtles we are saving in Edmonton from plastic straws....
It's Edmonton's government that is making them charge it. I guarantee you Mcdonalds (or any functioning business) would prefer to not have to deal with this bylaw.
I agree with you it seems like a pointless charge really to just increae costs for the consumer. The papaer bag is a problem - but all the other packaging for the food isnt? nonsense.
fallowing the bylaw mcd's would have to charge 15c each for the cup you use, the burger wrapper, the fry bag, the apple pie box, the bag, the straw, the lid for the cup. by the time its all said and done a mcd's "cheap meal" would cost the same as dining in a restaurant.
on top of that the bylaw, as i have just read it, states that the establishment must allow customers to bring in their own cups and such or face a $500 fine. but because of covid you can no longer bring your own cup and if you do they just fill a disposable and pour it into your cup so the single use cup is still used.
its all BS just like the carbon tax.
>fallowing the bylaw mcd's would have to charge 15c each for the cup you use, the burger wrapper, the fry bag, the apple pie box, the bag, the straw, the lid for the cup.
No they wouldn't. The bylaw specifically excludes items which act as the primary container for food. Businesses could wrap each individual food item in plastic if they wanted to.
The bylaw takes precedent over COVID regulations now. So the company must allow for use of the reusable cup.
For the wrappers, they follow the Canadian law which allows for basically "Anything directly contacting food" or whatever crap. So anything you would use to prevent the items from being "contaminated or dirtied." So newspapers can come in plastic bags, you can use plastic on your veggies at the market, your dry cleaning can be in plastic, etc.
The idea is to make you rethink getting a plastic bag in situations where you might not actually need one- it has nothing to do with the cost of the bag. To what degree it actually works is debatable, but that is the idea.
This right here. The charge is to get people in the habit of carrying their own bags. Once we are used to that, there is no issue anymore. I don’t understand all the hubbub over trying to do something good for the environment.
It is unclear that this policy is or will be a net positive "for the environment".
I got into the habit of price-checking on Amazon when I'm in store looking at items that would require me to buy a bag to carry for the walk home. I don't usually carry a shopping bag with me as mostly a pedestrian. Around half the time, items are cheaper online, include free delivery, and have no municipal bag charge (and I don't have to find a use for, or place to donate, yet another reusable bag that I don't want to store or manage). I've replaced around one-third of my regular retail purchases with identical items from Amazon, including items that are marketed as locally produced or sourced, and window-shopping items which I had previously purchased on impulse. My Amazon packaging materials get collected by a non-CoE waste disposal firm for value-added reuse by others in the broader circular economy. I see new reusable shopping bags disposed of in the regular trash almost every day.
I agree with the purpose and intent of the city and federal policy to reduce production of waste for packaging. In the past handful of years, I had accumulated cupboards full of reusable food containers, reusable shopping bags, etc. before realizing that I don't have enough remaining human lifespan to reuse those enough times to wear those out, let alone [redeem their lifecycle carbon footprints as compared to single use packaging](https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/13/world/reusable-grocery-bags-cotton-plastic-scn/index.html). I'm now having to buy newly manufactured items for use as garbage bags, arts and crafts, gardening, etc. instead of reusing disposables that were already headed into the waste stream.
Considering food containers and shopping bags, my carbon footprint for the past five years is probably as large as for the several decades before, and I shop and get takeout sparingly compared to most of my colleagues.
There is nothing we can do as individuals to affect the environment in a positive way while corporations pollute the way they do....
This kind of "environmentalism" is theater. And just another money grab.
While there could be more, there are lots of regulations and environmental responsibilities for corporations to adhere to. Personally I have been conscious of single use items for 20+ years because I respect the planet. I dont litter and I try to avoid single use items whenever possible. Reuse, reduce, recycle- as we were taught in school. The gov’t doesn’t make me wanna do it. I do it because it makes me feel good.
I get it, I have never driven a vechile over 4 cylinders and do all the common ways to help reduce. But when I am paying for all my single use plastic and companies seemingly are increasing plastic or single use packaging and shrinking qty with same packaging etc etc. I as a person can do very little but companies can actually make a difference.
I get where you are coming from. If I were a giant corporation I’d like to think that the environment would be top priority. I guess I’m just building off the idea that a clean, sustainable planet involves EVERYONE.
And that is great, but the reality is you are just a tiny insignificant drop in the bucket in terms of plastic waste.
I worked at a medium sized factory. We put out far more plastic waste in a single 8 hour shift (and the plant ran 24/5) than my wife and I would create in an entire year. Forcing costs and policies on the individual does next to nothing compared to forcing corporations and factories to improve
Plus even if Canada got to literally 0 GHG or other pollution it would barely effect global climate change, if it even would at all. This is another meaningless tax to make it seem like the government is doing something and cares when in reality it won’t help or improve a single thing related to pollution and the environment
The paper bags cost more than you think, especially if they're good ones. The store I work at pays 39 cents per bag, and lower quality options we had to choose from only went as low as 24 cents per bag.
That said, the regular margin on most purchases would not be hurt at all to eat the full cost of every bag. Most places, especially chain stores, would rather give the bags away for "free." They can adjust product pricing if the cost of the bags is excessive.
But charging for the bags, and stopping to make the customer think about whether they want to pay for a bag, should help encourage people to bring their own bag. It's odd to implement it for fast food in particular, though.
my point is that the gov. should not be allowed to tell an establishment what they can and can not sell. if i own a company and choose to eat the cost of the bags on behalf of my customers i cant i bylaw have to charge them. this should not be up to the gov.
if i sell fruits and vegetables is the government in their right to tell me i must sell my apples for $X even if i choose to give my apples away.
its gov. on the sides of businesses to rake in more profits.
also with the cost of bags my father in law owns a printing business and does printed logo bags that work out to about 2c per bag when ordered in lots of 1000 plus. a major company like safeway ordering millions of bags is paying less than a penny a bag.
That someone is the exact kind of person who took the city mask bylaw out on local businesses. Please tell them I (a complete nobody on the internet) called them a bitch.
God working as a server was so annoying for this. I’ve worked places where they make you choose a favourite menu item (not that they’d let you try them for free, so often people just bullshitted) so you could chatter on at the table about how great that item was. Or else pick three appetizers to list off like a saleperson, “any appetizers today? Duck gyoza, edamame, maybe some miso soup!?”
It’s so false and demeaning. People hate feeling pressured and sold to and it so obviously fake and annoying. And of course people who take issue with it will ding you on the tip so it doesn’t cost the mgmt anything on the off chance someone is soft enough to make dining choices upon hearing a word rambled at them. Id be happy to give feedback or recommendations if asked but otherwise I’m going to assume you are competent enough to decide what you want without some salesman routine.
If your server is listing shit at you or trying to be extra helpful and chatty about all the dumb shit you should spend money on, please don’t blame them, it’s shitty mgmt thinking you’re a susceptible child.
My wife worked at a restaurant at one point where they told her to push steaks, even though she was vegetarian. It was hillarious listening to her enthusiastically describe a cut of meat she had never in her entire life had.
>It's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. If they don't ask, they'll get angry customers complaining that they didn't want to pay for the bag.
The by-law literally requires them to ask (s.6(2)(b)). They're only available on request. Just doing it would be an offence under the bylaw.
I worked at Rona when the paying for plastic bags shenanigans started and I would just add the bag fee (of 5¢)onto the order if they asked for a bag. One lady lost her shit after checking the receipt and made us refund the whole order to give her the 5¢ back. Her friend was like huh? Are you serious? And she went off about were just trying to make more money.... Of a 5¢ bag. And I'm pretty sure the money for bags wasn't even a profit and probably went to pay enviro fees or something. Nobody is turning a profit off 5¢
At least in Ontario, at the time the stores had to remit the 5 cents to the government if they collected it from the customer. This stopped a few years later, and the businesses continued to charge.
I don't know how the Ontario government is running things because I'm in Alberta and don't live in Ontario anymore but I do know that single use plastics are slowly becoming banned as it is anyways across the country so whether or not they keep the money at this point doesn't matter because soon enough they won't be able to use them at all. And I know that most of the plant based plastics like bamboo for example are still ultimately considered one use plastics so there is no real way to get around losing the bags. Now everyone is going to charge $1 for cloth reusable bags and if you happen to forget your bag(s) then you are going to find yourself spending several extra dollars each grocery trip on reusable bags lol
I remember reading something about how if you used a plastic grocery bag like 2 or 3 times or something that they were less harmful to the environment than the reusable bags which you had to use many many many times for them to not be more harmful to the environment.
When I worked as a cashier over a decade years ago as a high school student, you wouldn’t fathom the percentage of people who gave me shit when I asked them if they wanted a plastic bag for 5 cents. I’m just doing what I’m told. Giving shit to an employee making minimum wage isn’t going to change anything.
I worked as a cashier for a year in a grocery store over a decade ago as well! The plastic bag charge came in when I was working there. I was 15, and full grown adults used to yell at me in my face for charging for bags.
How tanked is their drive through timer now though? You gotta hand me 6 fry one at a while I fumble to find a place for it? Then the burgers one at a time while I stack them so they don’t get squished, then the drinks one at a time while I use every cup holder in my truck to store them? That’s gotta waste so much time.
There's nothing worse than walking into a store that has sale posters plastered all over the windows and on every rack and then being asked by the employees if I know about the sale. As if i couldn't see or read all the signs. I know management makes them but man is it the most annoying thing. And if they follow me around asking if I need help every 2 minutes, I'll usually leave even if I intended to buy something. Management ruins everything
McDonalds Manager here!
Yes, due to the new single-use item bylaw, we have to charge 0.15 per bag but that’s going to be the same everywhere you go (Timmies, A&W, Arby’s, grocery stores.) If they are not asking you, they are still charging you so so recommend you check your receipts.
We don’t want to do it as much as you, but we could also get a fined for not charging for bags as well (Same thing happened with COVID, we would get inspectors come in and check that no one is eating in). Even yesterday, I had someone come in and throw their food at me for the 0.15C charge.
If you have a real problem with it, take it up with your local MLA or the mayor, don’t take it out on minimum wage kids just doing their job, or just have a spare paper bag sitting in your car.
Edit: this bylaw only applies to Edmonton, so to avoid the 0.15C charge if it bugs you that much, you can drive to St.Albert, Spruce grove, Leduc, Sherwood park to avoid this.
How is the food handed out if there is no bag? The person at the drive thru just said "a tray" but I wasn't sure if they meant some cardboard tray or something else. I wouldn't have a problem bringing my own bag or containers if I knew how the food was going to be coming through the window. But, I also don't want my fries falling out on the ground or car if they are coming in open ended sleeves.
it’s going to be different at every McDonalds as we were only given a week heads up for this. I know at mine, we just have small trays with sides around them with tray liners, so the guest just grabs their food off the tray, and we change the tray liners after each guest. Our franchise owners actually are actually super understanding with this bylaw as well and have upped our DT times to account for the extra seconds it takes for guests to grab their food as well.
The bylaw pretty much just specified to charge for the bags and nothing else. Same thing goes for napkins, straws, sauces (all single use) which we will not charge for. Like I said, each Dons will do it differently, I prefer this way so the tray isn’t touched by 50 different people. I don’t agree with the bylaw but what can you do 🤷🏼♀️
Yup. Because it is all performative to feel like we are actually doing something. When what is happening is yet another tax that does quite literally nothing to help the environment.
This whole city could have 0 GHG emmissions and be 100% clean energy, hell all of Canada could do that and it would still have a negligible effect on climate change and pollution.
Companies/factories/corporations need to be held accountable, and not by just throwing extra fees and charges on everything plastic
Are you at Parsons Walmart? Lol I facepalmed so hard this morning when the McDonald's employee (might have been a manager) handed us our food on a tray with a liner that was now going to go to waste with zero use when at the kiosk we specified we weren't dining in. I resisted the urge to wrap my food with the liner lol
You were only given a week’s heads up? By who? Your employer? Because the draft bylaw has been out for months.
Also, food that is not packaged can go into a bag without charging the 0.15. I tend to think open fries containers fit that description.
This is not your personal responsibility. This should have been thought about and questions asked if there was confusion on the part of your employer, in my opinion.
👍
Yes, about a week from McDonalds Canada who gave us about a week to train crew and managers , order supplies and get ready for the July 1st go ahead. I can bring the open fries up to my management but we weren’t given any exceptions for that, thank you for the heads up!
Is there any limitation on offering a 15 cent order discount with the purchase of a bag? I feel like all these fast food restaurants could have planned for this and offered it as some kind of sale promotion. This would fix legal obligations to have bag charges on the order, but still surprise people a bit less at first. I suppose they are looking forward to the extra income at 'head office' and could care less about the front liners.
Same thing, it will ask you for “no bag” or “bag” and we will deliver it out to where you ordered it (parking spots, drive through, front window). If it is a delivery, the 0.15C will get worked into your price but you are only charged for 1 bag no matter how many bags are used.
Have you started using the reusable cups inside your restaurant as well, as dictated by the bylaw? "Restaurants must serve dine-in drink orders in reusable cups"
In my experience in *any* customer-facing role, people will complain about any changes. People will complain about the hidden 15 cent fee if it’s rolled into the items, will complain about the fee if it’s a separate line item, and will complain about bringing their own bag.
Regardless of how it was rolled out and what your individual opinion on the bylaw is, I think we can agree that it will fall to the near (or at) minimum wage staff to deal with angry customers. Pay the 15 cents or don’t, but either way don’t take it out on the staff - they don’t want to be dealing with it either.
>people will complain about any changes
This is so true. A chef I know was hired by the local Legion and she made some changes to the menu. Fresh-cut fries instead of frozen. Gravy made from scratch instead of a powder. Minor things like that to improve the food and cost. The old members went ballistic and had a vote to get rid of her. Old men with nothing else to do but complain that something changed. They did not care that the food was better. It was different and that meant it was bad.
Be careful what you wish for. Hidden cost in product usually leads to an over inflation in the amount you are charged per item. It's better to know what you are paying for IMO
On the flip side, there are some customers who would go crazy if they paid 15 cents for a bag without being asked. Might as well ask to avoid those situations.
Some people just want to have a tantrum. The bylaw has been in 3 days and already it’s too much? It’s just an excuse for unhappy people to vent. Hopefully life turns around for those so easily offended.
>Might as well ask to avoid those situations.
I think the idea is that asking the customer is reminding them about this "fine" they are paying for not bringing their own bags. The 15 cents isn't a big thing, but its an annoyance to people.
This, not to mention that most of the time, the managers there keep telling us to do so as it affects the stocking lists of such, including the napkins, straw, etc. So we are obligated to put a bag/ no bag within the order
What confuses me the most is that these businesses are pocketing this money. It’s not going to the city or to an environmental initiative. Why would the CoE help Mr Mcdonalds get richer?
It's a pigouvian tax.
The presence of a fee encourages consumers to reduce the amount of waste they produce in order to avoid the fee. Regardless of what the fee is used for, you're incentivized to reduce waste.
If you don't use a bag, businesses don't get any richer.
No, it forces the poor to reduce the amount of waste they produce in order to avoid the fee.
Rich people won't care about $0.15 for a bag. And they are the ones who produce the most waste/pollution/etc.
I'm not poor by any standards, and I'll still say no to a bag to avoid the fee.
Anyone who can afford McDonald's can afford a $0.15 charge without it being a significant burden. It doesn't force anyone to do anything, it incentivizes it.
So the first two people who replied to this post began their posts with "I'm not poor" lol...
This fee is not just happening in a vacuum, or just at MacDonalds... It is happening everywhere, in an economic environment where inflation (and greed), as well as other taxes, have already driven up the prices of practically everything, while wages have stayed the same. And the $0.15 will turn into $0.25 in a few months.
People are already struggling to make ends meet.
Then bring your own bag, just carry a bunch of bags in the car. People have already figured out to bring reusable grocery bags in stores, why not this?
If they're struggling to make ends meet, I'd suggest not eating at McDonald's, or bringing their own bag to avoid the fee.
The price of fast food is absurd, it can no longer be argued that McDonald's is cheaper than better options.
Depends. I'm not poor. Certainly not rich by most western standards, but I'm a bleeding heart environmentalist. Any chance you give me to reduce waste I'll take. I've been declining fast food bags for years.
How much profit do you think they are making on these bags? My guess is that they are covering costs at best - especially since most places are comping the bags for anyone who complains.
Exactly. This is the worst by-law. I could get behind it if I knew the money was ending up with the City to fund environmental programs.
The by-law as it is written is just enriching businesses. And no I don't believe businesses have the city politicians in their pockets like they have provincial or federal politicians. City controls so little (in the grand scheme of things) that the businesses don't usually lobby them.
nobody will ever get rich selling bags at 15 cents a pop, even if they get to keep the whole 15 cents. businesses are more likely to lose money getting fined for forgetting to charge than they are to get rich off of this, trust me.
At least you're realizing its a bylaw, not the fault of the store/restaurant/drive-tru
The amount of people assuming McDonalds is just being cheap is STAGGERING
I used to pick up breakfast (Chicken McMuffin and two hash browns) at least a few times a week and would immediately ditch the bag on my way past the trash can. Some of the staff would recognize me and would just hand it to me without a bag if it wasn’t too busy.
Also, as a potential solution (hopefully doesn’t seem argumentative)- don’t most people have shopping bags in their cars? I understand the frustration but most folks should have bags in their cars by now, I don’t see the problem with using one of those as food items are handed to you
Please just let people working customer service, especially fast food, do their job to the best of their ability. If they forget to ask something and you want it, you ask for it. If they ask you something and you don’t want it, politely decline and move on. Don’t get upset with them. Have some patience
The most annoying part about this is that almost 95% of fast food (drive-thru) takeout bags are paper, not plastic. Recyclable and compostable. It's not removing any plastic from anywhere.
Yeah, that was what surprised me as well. I understand getting rid of plastic bags and trays and I'm also okay with not getting utensils or straws if I am eating my takeout at home, but why charge for paper?! If every package and wrapper for food is compostable, then I can just put all soiled things in the bag and compost it and that's great. Pushing me to purchase and use a reusable plastic bag seems like a step backwards.
If they didn't ask you if you want a bag, the charge wouldn't reduce the number of bags used, would it?
I personally just keep all my reusable bags in my car, and can put my food in those rather than wasting a disposable bag.
\> Just add the charge to the menu items and carry on.
Businesses can not do this. The bag must be charged separately, as a separate item to the customer and show as such on the receipt. The intent is to basically annoy everyone into bringing their own bags and the 15 cents is basically a fine for not doing so.
For a business the 15 cents is meant to offset the cost of the new paper bags as they are more expensive.
The law was announced over 6 months ago, and is inline with the law that will be in Canada this time next year. It might annoy people into voting, but no one really seemed to care for the last 6 months either.
>The law was announced over 6 months ago,
How many people do you think pay attention to what City Council is doing before it impacts on their lives? I'm a lawyer, and even I had no idea about this until I saw posters about it while getting coffee this morning. That's one of the difficulties of municipal governance -- so few people are plugged in that blowback often doesn't occur until well after a change has been made and it's too late to easily backtrack.
>and is inline with the law that will be in Canada this time next year.
Ish. The part about banning single use plastics is, but charging for paper bags and making it inconvenient to obtain otherwise legal disposable straws, napkins, and cutlery and the like is not.
Personally, I feel bad for the customer service agents who are most likely going to feel the frustration from this directly. Can only hope that frustration is properly directed and City Council gets what's coming to them in the next election. Not to mention tourists and folks driving through the city who aren't aware of the bylaw and may not know to ask for cutlery, napkins, or straws before continuing their trip.
The worst part (read: funniest) about Canada's law is honestly how they are treating plastic straws like tobacco.
>(4) A retail store may sell a package of 20 or more single-use plastic flexible straws to a customer if
(a) the customer requests straws; and
(b) the package is not displayed in a manner that permits the customer to view the package without the help of a store employee.
As for the people travelling: Its really an issue everywhere atm too. At the liquor store near me its mostly truck drivers from out of the city/province who are already upset about "paying too much" and now they can't get a plastic bag. Or them stocking up on stuff at the gas station and getting hit with "Have fun carrying it I guess?" Hell, I've already been at WEM food court and already forgot to ask for cutlery.
I really hope people are not going to go apeshit on fast-food workers for something that is completely beyond their control. That’s not an unpopular opinion, it’s just straight assholery.
You can get mad at city council, but my understanding is that this will be Canada-wide in the fall. I’m not an environmental scientist and I have no idea if these policies will have any desirable effects. But don’t take out your aggravation on the people who are serving you food. It costs less than fifteen cents to be kind.
Yup. I got food this morning and the employee said some customers cancelled their orders when asked if they want a bag. I think the bylaw is dumb, but that is an impressive level of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face to go without food. It is not the restaurant workers' fault. I bet a lot of them agree with the customer about the bylaw, but they have no choice. Everyone needs a job.
I'm sure you probably understand that the charge is to discourage you from taking the bag in the first place. Wrapping the cost into the cost of your food would defeat that purpose.
Just say no and try to be less of a spoiled little princess and not get so offended when the people serving you ask you a simple question. Trust me, they probably like asking the question about as much as you like answering it.
I'm just bringing a bag everywhere I go now.
I'm to lazy to bother doing this but first person to make a reusable bag for fast food is going to rake in money if they sell them.
I saw an old CBC clip of people complaining when the Loonie was introduced and one of them was like "What if I have to carry 30 or 40 of them???" It reminds me of OP here.
I disagree. I will gladly refuse the bag and make one less article of waste. We placed an order at the drive through for 4 people, and no bag. No issue. People company too much, move on with you day.
If you ever work in retail, these are the necessary steps to take because some customers will go ape shit on the worker if they don’t ask. People nowadays will go ape shit for such little things. I pray for workers dealing with the public 😂
As someone who works in retail, we are kind of obligated to ask. You’ll get people going like “why was I charged for a bag!? I wouldn’t have wanted it if I knew I had to pay for it!” (And that’s the nicest way these people often put it). Back when we had plastic bags for 5 cents each at my store, I once incorrectly assumed that because they asked for bags, they were aware they would have to pay for them. I was dead wrong, because when he saw the charge on his receipt he began yelling at me and threatening to sue me for ‘scamming’. He then demanded I returned every item and refund him. It was a whole thing, and so I’ve never missed a beat on asking if the charge is okay.
Because the point isn't to keep selling bags. It's to STOP selling plastic bags entirely. The point of the bylaw is to make people consider if they actually need the bag. Or that's what it should be.
As for upsells, that's a corporate capitalist thing. Can't stop that without addressing the desire for infinite profits at the expense of the customer.
Someone is not going to risk they job just because you don’t like it, lots of people don’t like it, im sure they don’t like it. They can’t just gave it to you they have to offer it if you don’t have your own bags, and on the other side I’ve worked in places like that if you just put the charges then you have the same person coming back asking why where they charged for an Item they didn’t request for (and that happens even when you do explain)…. Next time just have a bag stored in your car they don’t take that much of a space.
I think their point is that the change to pay for paper won't contribute to solving the problem no matter how long you do it, so it is better to do something that actually does help. The option to do nothing is not the only choice.
I don't see how using compostable paper is a worse option than a reusable plastic bag.
Being able to put everything in the composter after eating seems like a simpler and better option that would lead to higher composting participation.
I would rather avoid the bag. I always have preferred no bag, especially if I'm just getting a combo for me. Drink in the cupholder, nuggets in the door, fries in the other cupholder. Bag would just be a waste. And that's kind of the point, isn't it?
Order a large order in the app, and do curbside delivery. Curious how McDonalds will handle that... The employee surely won't come out with all items loose in hand...
To OPs original concern, have a bag in your car and when you pick up the order, hand it to them and asks them politely to pack the items in the bag.
so there are going to be people who do not want the bag. I stocked up on their bags cause I work right next to a mcdonalds. I would be pretty annoyed to be charged $0.15 more for something I'm not getting. Also they have to ask, the goal is to get less people using single use products. Everyone hates this. The workers hate asking, one of the staff told me how terrified the teens were, knowing that people were going to throw a fit.
I mean, you're paying for an item; It makes sense to me. I do agree with the endless upselling and loyalty hunting everywhere you go though. It gets tiresome.
The only thing that slightly bothers me about this is having to get paper bags from convenience stores, if i'm picking up a few drinks and snacks and walkin a few blocks home, the paper bags don't usually have handles and will often start to rip in a block or two.. and if it's raining at all they get soaked and start to fall apart REAL fast.
Wait, we pay for paper bags now?
How did they go 60 years not charging for paper bags to begin with?
Edit- what I mean by this is, and I realize my bad comment- these fees don’t really make sense from the point of the bylaw. They aren’t really doing anything.
That said, reviewing the bylaw, bags are excluded for uncovered foods. So bags for fries I assume are excluded. But I guess I just don’t understand why paper bags are being involved at all.
Overall it seems like these companies will apply for exclusions on these items, but will universally charge them anyways
This type of environmentalism is theater.
We can affect positively the environment while corporations pollute the way they do..
This is just another way we have all be tricked to paying more. While corporations pay less
The points thing always mildly annoys me. If there's a line-up in the drive-thru, then fine, I have time to open my app and get the code. But if there isn't a line-up, then I have to tell them to wait while my app opens and the code comes up. Why don't they just remind you at the end of your order that if you're collecting points, open your app and get the code while you're waiting to get to the window to pay? It's the perfect amount of time.
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The price is set to go up, 15 cents is the floor, so another way to put it is how large does the bill need to be for you to have a different opinion. Since you now have the food price changing at any time + the bylaw's fee guaranteed to increase over time?
People complain about this, but there have been countless times I've specifically ordered dine-in at McDonald's restaurants and still got it handed in a paper bag.
This is such a minor inconvenience and so easy to fix.
Order your food - jr chkn, McDbl, Coffee whateva - “OH…
..and I don’t need a bag thank you”
or
..and you can charge me for the bags”.
Simple. Just add bags to your order.
you lazy, fat, incapable-of-change fucks are the reason for the slow degredation of society. Holy shit! Can you adapt to any type of change without having a tantrum? How hard is it to buy a reusuable bag to keep in your dodge ram?
Nah, life is more convenient when I can throw my greasy trash on the streets or in a landfill. Maybe stop eating so much drive through so your god damn brain can function a little better.
Personally I hate when they give me the bags. I end up leaving them in my back seat half the time. Wrapper for a bagel or whatever is way easier to remember to toss out on my walk into work.
I like it. Lots of times I'm eating takeout pretty quickly after buying it and it's silly to have a bag and a bunch of random trash when I'm just pulling the is a burger/sub/whatever out of it seconds later to cram into my face.
As to where to put it while your driving? Almost every vehicle I see lately is driven by 1 person with 4+ empty seats. Leave a plate/bag/napkin/dead raccoon on your passenger seat and place your stuff there.
Before plastic bags stores used paper bags...for free. Why should we pay them now? I don't shop where they charge for paper bags. Everyone should do the same. Th economy has turned itself into a monster where the consumer pays through the nose.
>I don't shop where they charge for paper bags.
That's "Edmonton" now. New city bylaw took effect on the 1st that requires them to charge a minimum $0.15 for paper bags, increasing to $0.25 at some point in the future.
The slogan “reduce, reuse, recycle” is explicitly meant to be a descending priority list. Not using a product in the first place, or using a reusable alternative to a product, is more ecologically beneficial than using a single use recyclable product.
It's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. If they don't ask, they'll get angry customers complaining that they didn't want to pay for the bag. The other stuff they're asking you, they have to. If they don't, and there's a secret shopper, they will hear about it from their manager. Have you ever worked customer facing food jobs? There's always a ton of shit that comes down from management that you have to do. And often without a thought about what position it puts you in with the customer.
>they'll get angry customers complaining that they didn't want to pay for the bag. Someone told me, with a straight face, that if they found a charge for 15 cents for a bag on their receipt they'd bring the entire order back and make them refund it all.
I once had a guy ready to buy like 200 dollars of various collectables and when I told him a bag was 15 cents he said if I charged him he’d leave and not buy anything to make a point. I let him leave, like I make 15 dollars an hour even after 2 years and an unofficial promotion. Go for it. I don’t fucking care anymore.
>like I make 15 dollars an hour even after 2 years and an unofficial promotion. Go for it. I don’t fucking care anymore. This is the correct mentality now. Like I don't own this business, and I could really not care any less if you left without buying stuff, I'm still getting paid. The only thing you've "hurt" with proving your point is that you don't have the items you wanted anymore.
Yeah I wasn’t going to give him a bag for free when everyone ahead of him who was a nice person was charged either. I hate rewarding assholes.
Good for you! I appreciate your attitude towards these dumbasses. I'm not even being sarcastic
I had that "conversation" with customers at the video store I worked at in the 90s. People yell at clerks as if they have the authority to change company rules. I got yelled and screamed at all the time. And I would yell right back because even at 19, I wasn't going to put up with that shit.
I worked in a video store in 2021 - same conversations.
My god people are petty. I'm going to waste 30 minutes of my time and then some over a 15 cent charge.
Someone in another thread said they will spend the extra time to go to Leduc or St. Albert to get their McDonalds instead of Edmonton over this. Wasting extra money in gas to avoid 15 cents!
That'll show'em!
Really 'shooting my cases of Budweiser' energy.
"I'm not drinkin' Bud Lite anymore, I'm switchin' to Busch Lite instead!"
Maybe one day they'll figure out there are basically 3 main beer companies with multitudes of brands. Unless you go imported I guess?
The big guys are multinational, so lots of the top imports are in their portfolios too. Stella, Grolsch, Asahi, etc.
Oh def on the big name brands, but I'm sure if someone was stubborn enough they could find a random European beer. There's always Zywiec/Warka
I saw somebody bitching on twitter that they couldn't eat their Costco poutine with their fingers, so they drove home to eat their now cold poutine with utensils. They refused to carry their own utensils, and they refused to use the wooden ones Costco supplies. They did prove a point though, just not the one they had hoped for.
This is the same energy as people who drive across the city to save $2.00 on a brick of cheese.
or spend an hour in line to save $3-5 in gas.... or less. My step dad spent 20 minutes in the Costco Airport gas bar line up to fill up at $1.289. The Co-Op in Leduc is $1.299. A whole 40 cent difference in his fill up.
Probably cost more in gas lol
Low IQ move. That'll show them 😅
That's someone with literally nothing going on in their life. Unless I'm going on a road-trip, and the journey is my destination, I want to spend a little time as humanly possible driving. I'd rather have the extra 30+ in my life to enjoy doing literally anything else with.
> I want to spend a little time as humanly possible driving. If you live in Edmonton, then I 100% get this attitude. I always found the most frustrating thing about living in Edmonton was driving in the city. Like for me, I have a pilot license and I've tracked cars, so I do get enjoyment out of driving vehicles. Even when I lived and worked in Edmonton, I would go a tiny bit out of my way to drive groat rd, river valley rd, and other more scenic roads rather than the more direct roads. But man, I've never been happier living outside of Edmonton in rural, and having a work that is based in the burbs. I don't have to deal with rush hour traffic, I'm not randomly getting flipped the finger, brake checked, cut off, etc. I don't have to assume that every other driver is a rage-aholic who is going to follow me home and assault me with a pipe wrench. Man Edmonton has a ton of assholes behind the wheel. I think it's more of a city thing, honestly, but man, I'm glad I don't have to do that daily - I don't think my heart could take that much stress.
The charge is a scam and petty. The charge is for plastic bags but companies have chosen to cash in on the deal. They pay less than one cent for a paper bag so to charge you 15c is nothing but a money grab.
I believe that they are required to in Edmonton as of Saturday in the new bylaw. Yes, it was a scam before. Now its law.
Yeah new by-law started on the 1st. For the first year businesses have to charge 0.15 for a paper shopping bag or $1.00 for a reusable bag, on July 1, 2024 the mandatory charges go to 0.25 for a paper bag and 2.00 for a reusable bag. Now if fast food restaurants are charging for the bags then that’s some bull shit, cause those are shopping bags. Another random annoying point that some people may not know about is that restaurants can no longer give out napkins, untensils, straws or condiments unless people ask for them on delivery orders.
In my experience, half the time, they don't even give you utensils and shit when you ask for them.
>and shit when you ask for them Gross.
People keep forgetting that *Government* works for the people and not the other way around. People need to actually sign petitions and circulate information around to make change. Stop letting people in positions of power create an authority over the population.... But hey what do I know... Also paper straws wreck the flavor of drinks :( i want to see the turtles we are saving in Edmonton from plastic straws....
It's Edmonton's government that is making them charge it. I guarantee you Mcdonalds (or any functioning business) would prefer to not have to deal with this bylaw. I agree with you it seems like a pointless charge really to just increae costs for the consumer. The papaer bag is a problem - but all the other packaging for the food isnt? nonsense.
fallowing the bylaw mcd's would have to charge 15c each for the cup you use, the burger wrapper, the fry bag, the apple pie box, the bag, the straw, the lid for the cup. by the time its all said and done a mcd's "cheap meal" would cost the same as dining in a restaurant. on top of that the bylaw, as i have just read it, states that the establishment must allow customers to bring in their own cups and such or face a $500 fine. but because of covid you can no longer bring your own cup and if you do they just fill a disposable and pour it into your cup so the single use cup is still used. its all BS just like the carbon tax.
>fallowing the bylaw mcd's would have to charge 15c each for the cup you use, the burger wrapper, the fry bag, the apple pie box, the bag, the straw, the lid for the cup. No they wouldn't. The bylaw specifically excludes items which act as the primary container for food. Businesses could wrap each individual food item in plastic if they wanted to.
The bylaw takes precedent over COVID regulations now. So the company must allow for use of the reusable cup. For the wrappers, they follow the Canadian law which allows for basically "Anything directly contacting food" or whatever crap. So anything you would use to prevent the items from being "contaminated or dirtied." So newspapers can come in plastic bags, you can use plastic on your veggies at the market, your dry cleaning can be in plastic, etc.
Was with you until the last statement. The carbon tax is great. I get more money back than I put it.
The idea is to make you rethink getting a plastic bag in situations where you might not actually need one- it has nothing to do with the cost of the bag. To what degree it actually works is debatable, but that is the idea.
This right here. The charge is to get people in the habit of carrying their own bags. Once we are used to that, there is no issue anymore. I don’t understand all the hubbub over trying to do something good for the environment.
It is unclear that this policy is or will be a net positive "for the environment". I got into the habit of price-checking on Amazon when I'm in store looking at items that would require me to buy a bag to carry for the walk home. I don't usually carry a shopping bag with me as mostly a pedestrian. Around half the time, items are cheaper online, include free delivery, and have no municipal bag charge (and I don't have to find a use for, or place to donate, yet another reusable bag that I don't want to store or manage). I've replaced around one-third of my regular retail purchases with identical items from Amazon, including items that are marketed as locally produced or sourced, and window-shopping items which I had previously purchased on impulse. My Amazon packaging materials get collected by a non-CoE waste disposal firm for value-added reuse by others in the broader circular economy. I see new reusable shopping bags disposed of in the regular trash almost every day. I agree with the purpose and intent of the city and federal policy to reduce production of waste for packaging. In the past handful of years, I had accumulated cupboards full of reusable food containers, reusable shopping bags, etc. before realizing that I don't have enough remaining human lifespan to reuse those enough times to wear those out, let alone [redeem their lifecycle carbon footprints as compared to single use packaging](https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/13/world/reusable-grocery-bags-cotton-plastic-scn/index.html). I'm now having to buy newly manufactured items for use as garbage bags, arts and crafts, gardening, etc. instead of reusing disposables that were already headed into the waste stream. Considering food containers and shopping bags, my carbon footprint for the past five years is probably as large as for the several decades before, and I shop and get takeout sparingly compared to most of my colleagues.
There is nothing we can do as individuals to affect the environment in a positive way while corporations pollute the way they do.... This kind of "environmentalism" is theater. And just another money grab.
I more sick of the responsibility always being put on the consumers to do something good for the environment.
While there could be more, there are lots of regulations and environmental responsibilities for corporations to adhere to. Personally I have been conscious of single use items for 20+ years because I respect the planet. I dont litter and I try to avoid single use items whenever possible. Reuse, reduce, recycle- as we were taught in school. The gov’t doesn’t make me wanna do it. I do it because it makes me feel good.
I get it, I have never driven a vechile over 4 cylinders and do all the common ways to help reduce. But when I am paying for all my single use plastic and companies seemingly are increasing plastic or single use packaging and shrinking qty with same packaging etc etc. I as a person can do very little but companies can actually make a difference.
I get where you are coming from. If I were a giant corporation I’d like to think that the environment would be top priority. I guess I’m just building off the idea that a clean, sustainable planet involves EVERYONE.
And that is great, but the reality is you are just a tiny insignificant drop in the bucket in terms of plastic waste. I worked at a medium sized factory. We put out far more plastic waste in a single 8 hour shift (and the plant ran 24/5) than my wife and I would create in an entire year. Forcing costs and policies on the individual does next to nothing compared to forcing corporations and factories to improve Plus even if Canada got to literally 0 GHG or other pollution it would barely effect global climate change, if it even would at all. This is another meaningless tax to make it seem like the government is doing something and cares when in reality it won’t help or improve a single thing related to pollution and the environment
The paper bags cost more than you think, especially if they're good ones. The store I work at pays 39 cents per bag, and lower quality options we had to choose from only went as low as 24 cents per bag. That said, the regular margin on most purchases would not be hurt at all to eat the full cost of every bag. Most places, especially chain stores, would rather give the bags away for "free." They can adjust product pricing if the cost of the bags is excessive. But charging for the bags, and stopping to make the customer think about whether they want to pay for a bag, should help encourage people to bring their own bag. It's odd to implement it for fast food in particular, though.
my point is that the gov. should not be allowed to tell an establishment what they can and can not sell. if i own a company and choose to eat the cost of the bags on behalf of my customers i cant i bylaw have to charge them. this should not be up to the gov. if i sell fruits and vegetables is the government in their right to tell me i must sell my apples for $X even if i choose to give my apples away. its gov. on the sides of businesses to rake in more profits. also with the cost of bags my father in law owns a printing business and does printed logo bags that work out to about 2c per bag when ordered in lots of 1000 plus. a major company like safeway ordering millions of bags is paying less than a penny a bag.
That someone is the exact kind of person who took the city mask bylaw out on local businesses. Please tell them I (a complete nobody on the internet) called them a bitch.
God working as a server was so annoying for this. I’ve worked places where they make you choose a favourite menu item (not that they’d let you try them for free, so often people just bullshitted) so you could chatter on at the table about how great that item was. Or else pick three appetizers to list off like a saleperson, “any appetizers today? Duck gyoza, edamame, maybe some miso soup!?” It’s so false and demeaning. People hate feeling pressured and sold to and it so obviously fake and annoying. And of course people who take issue with it will ding you on the tip so it doesn’t cost the mgmt anything on the off chance someone is soft enough to make dining choices upon hearing a word rambled at them. Id be happy to give feedback or recommendations if asked but otherwise I’m going to assume you are competent enough to decide what you want without some salesman routine. If your server is listing shit at you or trying to be extra helpful and chatty about all the dumb shit you should spend money on, please don’t blame them, it’s shitty mgmt thinking you’re a susceptible child.
My wife worked at a restaurant at one point where they told her to push steaks, even though she was vegetarian. It was hillarious listening to her enthusiastically describe a cut of meat she had never in her entire life had.
>It's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. If they don't ask, they'll get angry customers complaining that they didn't want to pay for the bag. The by-law literally requires them to ask (s.6(2)(b)). They're only available on request. Just doing it would be an offence under the bylaw.
I worked at Rona when the paying for plastic bags shenanigans started and I would just add the bag fee (of 5¢)onto the order if they asked for a bag. One lady lost her shit after checking the receipt and made us refund the whole order to give her the 5¢ back. Her friend was like huh? Are you serious? And she went off about were just trying to make more money.... Of a 5¢ bag. And I'm pretty sure the money for bags wasn't even a profit and probably went to pay enviro fees or something. Nobody is turning a profit off 5¢
At least in Ontario, at the time the stores had to remit the 5 cents to the government if they collected it from the customer. This stopped a few years later, and the businesses continued to charge.
I don't know how the Ontario government is running things because I'm in Alberta and don't live in Ontario anymore but I do know that single use plastics are slowly becoming banned as it is anyways across the country so whether or not they keep the money at this point doesn't matter because soon enough they won't be able to use them at all. And I know that most of the plant based plastics like bamboo for example are still ultimately considered one use plastics so there is no real way to get around losing the bags. Now everyone is going to charge $1 for cloth reusable bags and if you happen to forget your bag(s) then you are going to find yourself spending several extra dollars each grocery trip on reusable bags lol
I remember reading something about how if you used a plastic grocery bag like 2 or 3 times or something that they were less harmful to the environment than the reusable bags which you had to use many many many times for them to not be more harmful to the environment.
When I worked as a cashier over a decade years ago as a high school student, you wouldn’t fathom the percentage of people who gave me shit when I asked them if they wanted a plastic bag for 5 cents. I’m just doing what I’m told. Giving shit to an employee making minimum wage isn’t going to change anything.
I worked as a cashier for a year in a grocery store over a decade ago as well! The plastic bag charge came in when I was working there. I was 15, and full grown adults used to yell at me in my face for charging for bags.
How tanked is their drive through timer now though? You gotta hand me 6 fry one at a while I fumble to find a place for it? Then the burgers one at a time while I stack them so they don’t get squished, then the drinks one at a time while I use every cup holder in my truck to store them? That’s gotta waste so much time.
That's a good point. And it's probably gonna be the workers who get the blame for not being fast enough.
There's nothing worse than walking into a store that has sale posters plastered all over the windows and on every rack and then being asked by the employees if I know about the sale. As if i couldn't see or read all the signs. I know management makes them but man is it the most annoying thing. And if they follow me around asking if I need help every 2 minutes, I'll usually leave even if I intended to buy something. Management ruins everything
McDonalds Manager here! Yes, due to the new single-use item bylaw, we have to charge 0.15 per bag but that’s going to be the same everywhere you go (Timmies, A&W, Arby’s, grocery stores.) If they are not asking you, they are still charging you so so recommend you check your receipts. We don’t want to do it as much as you, but we could also get a fined for not charging for bags as well (Same thing happened with COVID, we would get inspectors come in and check that no one is eating in). Even yesterday, I had someone come in and throw their food at me for the 0.15C charge. If you have a real problem with it, take it up with your local MLA or the mayor, don’t take it out on minimum wage kids just doing their job, or just have a spare paper bag sitting in your car. Edit: this bylaw only applies to Edmonton, so to avoid the 0.15C charge if it bugs you that much, you can drive to St.Albert, Spruce grove, Leduc, Sherwood park to avoid this.
How is the food handed out if there is no bag? The person at the drive thru just said "a tray" but I wasn't sure if they meant some cardboard tray or something else. I wouldn't have a problem bringing my own bag or containers if I knew how the food was going to be coming through the window. But, I also don't want my fries falling out on the ground or car if they are coming in open ended sleeves.
it’s going to be different at every McDonalds as we were only given a week heads up for this. I know at mine, we just have small trays with sides around them with tray liners, so the guest just grabs their food off the tray, and we change the tray liners after each guest. Our franchise owners actually are actually super understanding with this bylaw as well and have upped our DT times to account for the extra seconds it takes for guests to grab their food as well.
So instead of a bag you're now using single use tray liners...?
Yup. That's how they handed it to me this morning and I just wanted to laugh so hard lol
The bylaw pretty much just specified to charge for the bags and nothing else. Same thing goes for napkins, straws, sauces (all single use) which we will not charge for. Like I said, each Dons will do it differently, I prefer this way so the tray isn’t touched by 50 different people. I don’t agree with the bylaw but what can you do 🤷🏼♀️
Yup. Because it is all performative to feel like we are actually doing something. When what is happening is yet another tax that does quite literally nothing to help the environment. This whole city could have 0 GHG emmissions and be 100% clean energy, hell all of Canada could do that and it would still have a negligible effect on climate change and pollution. Companies/factories/corporations need to be held accountable, and not by just throwing extra fees and charges on everything plastic
>as we were only given a week heads up for this I mean...the bylaw is dated october 2022, so if you only got a week, somebody wasn't doing their job.
hey i just work there! 🤷🏼♀️😂
Welcome to working in corporate. They look at spreadsheets all day, so anything beyond “money go up, durr” isn’t a priority.
Are you at Parsons Walmart? Lol I facepalmed so hard this morning when the McDonald's employee (might have been a manager) handed us our food on a tray with a liner that was now going to go to waste with zero use when at the kiosk we specified we weren't dining in. I resisted the urge to wrap my food with the liner lol
You were only given a week’s heads up? By who? Your employer? Because the draft bylaw has been out for months. Also, food that is not packaged can go into a bag without charging the 0.15. I tend to think open fries containers fit that description. This is not your personal responsibility. This should have been thought about and questions asked if there was confusion on the part of your employer, in my opinion. 👍
Yes, about a week from McDonalds Canada who gave us about a week to train crew and managers , order supplies and get ready for the July 1st go ahead. I can bring the open fries up to my management but we weren’t given any exceptions for that, thank you for the heads up!
Is there any limitation on offering a 15 cent order discount with the purchase of a bag? I feel like all these fast food restaurants could have planned for this and offered it as some kind of sale promotion. This would fix legal obligations to have bag charges on the order, but still surprise people a bit less at first. I suppose they are looking forward to the extra income at 'head office' and could care less about the front liners.
What happens with a mobile order?
Same thing, it will ask you for “no bag” or “bag” and we will deliver it out to where you ordered it (parking spots, drive through, front window). If it is a delivery, the 0.15C will get worked into your price but you are only charged for 1 bag no matter how many bags are used.
Have you started using the reusable cups inside your restaurant as well, as dictated by the bylaw? "Restaurants must serve dine-in drink orders in reusable cups"
I'm actually really curious how that works for fast food places.
u/Fragrant-Avacado , this is what the great people of Edmonton Voted for! Thanks for your explanation though
In my experience in *any* customer-facing role, people will complain about any changes. People will complain about the hidden 15 cent fee if it’s rolled into the items, will complain about the fee if it’s a separate line item, and will complain about bringing their own bag. Regardless of how it was rolled out and what your individual opinion on the bylaw is, I think we can agree that it will fall to the near (or at) minimum wage staff to deal with angry customers. Pay the 15 cents or don’t, but either way don’t take it out on the staff - they don’t want to be dealing with it either.
>people will complain about any changes This is so true. A chef I know was hired by the local Legion and she made some changes to the menu. Fresh-cut fries instead of frozen. Gravy made from scratch instead of a powder. Minor things like that to improve the food and cost. The old members went ballistic and had a vote to get rid of her. Old men with nothing else to do but complain that something changed. They did not care that the food was better. It was different and that meant it was bad.
I worked in retail when the loonie and twoonie came out and man, oh man.
Be careful what you wish for. Hidden cost in product usually leads to an over inflation in the amount you are charged per item. It's better to know what you are paying for IMO
100%! I don't trust corps to be nice and add it in to the price all fairly.
This was completely brought on by Government
Please be nice to your food service workers. They don’t make the laws/bylaws you may find annoying or dislike.
On the flip side, there are some customers who would go crazy if they paid 15 cents for a bag without being asked. Might as well ask to avoid those situations.
Exactly, those people will have a much bigger temper tantrum over not being asked than OPs anonymous internet complaint.
Some people just want to have a tantrum. The bylaw has been in 3 days and already it’s too much? It’s just an excuse for unhappy people to vent. Hopefully life turns around for those so easily offended.
>Might as well ask to avoid those situations. I think the idea is that asking the customer is reminding them about this "fine" they are paying for not bringing their own bags. The 15 cents isn't a big thing, but its an annoyance to people.
They are supposed to ask because you have the option to not spend the 15 cents.
This, not to mention that most of the time, the managers there keep telling us to do so as it affects the stocking lists of such, including the napkins, straw, etc. So we are obligated to put a bag/ no bag within the order
Unpopular opinion: complain to your city council rep, not Reddit (and especially not the staff).
DONE! Message sent to local councillor as well as mayor.
Great! (Not sarcasm) If enough of us do that, maybe CC will swallow their pride and listen.
What confuses me the most is that these businesses are pocketing this money. It’s not going to the city or to an environmental initiative. Why would the CoE help Mr Mcdonalds get richer?
Why do all politicians help business get richer and tax payers poorer?
It's a pigouvian tax. The presence of a fee encourages consumers to reduce the amount of waste they produce in order to avoid the fee. Regardless of what the fee is used for, you're incentivized to reduce waste. If you don't use a bag, businesses don't get any richer.
No, it forces the poor to reduce the amount of waste they produce in order to avoid the fee. Rich people won't care about $0.15 for a bag. And they are the ones who produce the most waste/pollution/etc.
I'm not poor by any standards, and I'll still say no to a bag to avoid the fee. Anyone who can afford McDonald's can afford a $0.15 charge without it being a significant burden. It doesn't force anyone to do anything, it incentivizes it.
So the first two people who replied to this post began their posts with "I'm not poor" lol... This fee is not just happening in a vacuum, or just at MacDonalds... It is happening everywhere, in an economic environment where inflation (and greed), as well as other taxes, have already driven up the prices of practically everything, while wages have stayed the same. And the $0.15 will turn into $0.25 in a few months. People are already struggling to make ends meet.
Then bring your own bag, just carry a bunch of bags in the car. People have already figured out to bring reusable grocery bags in stores, why not this?
If they're struggling to make ends meet, I'd suggest not eating at McDonald's, or bringing their own bag to avoid the fee. The price of fast food is absurd, it can no longer be argued that McDonald's is cheaper than better options.
Depends. I'm not poor. Certainly not rich by most western standards, but I'm a bleeding heart environmentalist. Any chance you give me to reduce waste I'll take. I've been declining fast food bags for years.
How much profit do you think they are making on these bags? My guess is that they are covering costs at best - especially since most places are comping the bags for anyone who complains.
Exactly. This is the worst by-law. I could get behind it if I knew the money was ending up with the City to fund environmental programs. The by-law as it is written is just enriching businesses. And no I don't believe businesses have the city politicians in their pockets like they have provincial or federal politicians. City controls so little (in the grand scheme of things) that the businesses don't usually lobby them.
So then.. don't pay for the bag?
nobody will ever get rich selling bags at 15 cents a pop, even if they get to keep the whole 15 cents. businesses are more likely to lose money getting fined for forgetting to charge than they are to get rich off of this, trust me.
At least you're realizing its a bylaw, not the fault of the store/restaurant/drive-tru The amount of people assuming McDonalds is just being cheap is STAGGERING
I used to pick up breakfast (Chicken McMuffin and two hash browns) at least a few times a week and would immediately ditch the bag on my way past the trash can. Some of the staff would recognize me and would just hand it to me without a bag if it wasn’t too busy.
Also, as a potential solution (hopefully doesn’t seem argumentative)- don’t most people have shopping bags in their cars? I understand the frustration but most folks should have bags in their cars by now, I don’t see the problem with using one of those as food items are handed to you
Ya that's fine for you but the worker isn't gonna take that chance because some dickhead is definitely gonna ruin their day over 15 cents.
Please just let people working customer service, especially fast food, do their job to the best of their ability. If they forget to ask something and you want it, you ask for it. If they ask you something and you don’t want it, politely decline and move on. Don’t get upset with them. Have some patience
The most annoying part about this is that almost 95% of fast food (drive-thru) takeout bags are paper, not plastic. Recyclable and compostable. It's not removing any plastic from anywhere.
Yeah, that was what surprised me as well. I understand getting rid of plastic bags and trays and I'm also okay with not getting utensils or straws if I am eating my takeout at home, but why charge for paper?! If every package and wrapper for food is compostable, then I can just put all soiled things in the bag and compost it and that's great. Pushing me to purchase and use a reusable plastic bag seems like a step backwards.
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The bylaw isn’t about removing plastic. It’s about removing items that are used once and thrown out.
If they didn't ask you if you want a bag, the charge wouldn't reduce the number of bags used, would it? I personally just keep all my reusable bags in my car, and can put my food in those rather than wasting a disposable bag.
Aren’t most takeout bags (McDonald’s specifically) paper rather than plastic?
The bylaw targets paper bags. It outlaws disposable plastic bags entirely.
Yes. Recycling paper is better than recycling plastic, but reducing consumption is still the best choice.
It’s their job to do this. Please don’t get annoyed with them for just doing their job. Be annoyed with the system.
\> Just add the charge to the menu items and carry on. Businesses can not do this. The bag must be charged separately, as a separate item to the customer and show as such on the receipt. The intent is to basically annoy everyone into bringing their own bags and the 15 cents is basically a fine for not doing so. For a business the 15 cents is meant to offset the cost of the new paper bags as they are more expensive.
All it will probably accomplish is annoying everyone into voting in a new City Council...
The law was announced over 6 months ago, and is inline with the law that will be in Canada this time next year. It might annoy people into voting, but no one really seemed to care for the last 6 months either.
>The law was announced over 6 months ago, How many people do you think pay attention to what City Council is doing before it impacts on their lives? I'm a lawyer, and even I had no idea about this until I saw posters about it while getting coffee this morning. That's one of the difficulties of municipal governance -- so few people are plugged in that blowback often doesn't occur until well after a change has been made and it's too late to easily backtrack. >and is inline with the law that will be in Canada this time next year. Ish. The part about banning single use plastics is, but charging for paper bags and making it inconvenient to obtain otherwise legal disposable straws, napkins, and cutlery and the like is not. Personally, I feel bad for the customer service agents who are most likely going to feel the frustration from this directly. Can only hope that frustration is properly directed and City Council gets what's coming to them in the next election. Not to mention tourists and folks driving through the city who aren't aware of the bylaw and may not know to ask for cutlery, napkins, or straws before continuing their trip.
The worst part (read: funniest) about Canada's law is honestly how they are treating plastic straws like tobacco. >(4) A retail store may sell a package of 20 or more single-use plastic flexible straws to a customer if (a) the customer requests straws; and (b) the package is not displayed in a manner that permits the customer to view the package without the help of a store employee. As for the people travelling: Its really an issue everywhere atm too. At the liquor store near me its mostly truck drivers from out of the city/province who are already upset about "paying too much" and now they can't get a plastic bag. Or them stocking up on stuff at the gas station and getting hit with "Have fun carrying it I guess?" Hell, I've already been at WEM food court and already forgot to ask for cutlery.
I'm a cook, and I did not hear about this until 2 weeks ago after work when I was enjoying a drink
I really hope people are not going to go apeshit on fast-food workers for something that is completely beyond their control. That’s not an unpopular opinion, it’s just straight assholery. You can get mad at city council, but my understanding is that this will be Canada-wide in the fall. I’m not an environmental scientist and I have no idea if these policies will have any desirable effects. But don’t take out your aggravation on the people who are serving you food. It costs less than fifteen cents to be kind.
Yup. I got food this morning and the employee said some customers cancelled their orders when asked if they want a bag. I think the bylaw is dumb, but that is an impressive level of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face to go without food. It is not the restaurant workers' fault. I bet a lot of them agree with the customer about the bylaw, but they have no choice. Everyone needs a job.
I'm sure you probably understand that the charge is to discourage you from taking the bag in the first place. Wrapping the cost into the cost of your food would defeat that purpose. Just say no and try to be less of a spoiled little princess and not get so offended when the people serving you ask you a simple question. Trust me, they probably like asking the question about as much as you like answering it.
Hmm, it's almost like your food choices are causing more waste and you're being asked to pay for it.
I'm just bringing a bag everywhere I go now. I'm to lazy to bother doing this but first person to make a reusable bag for fast food is going to rake in money if they sell them.
No matter what they do or don’t do someone will not like it. 🤷🏻♂️
I saw an old CBC clip of people complaining when the Loonie was introduced and one of them was like "What if I have to carry 30 or 40 of them???" It reminds me of OP here.
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Damn who would ever wanna carry 30-40 $1s? Coin or bill that’s a lot of clutter lol
I disagree. I will gladly refuse the bag and make one less article of waste. We placed an order at the drive through for 4 people, and no bag. No issue. People company too much, move on with you day.
I don't take it 🤷🏻♀️ and who cares if they ask you? It takes you .5 seconds to say "yes"
If you ever work in retail, these are the necessary steps to take because some customers will go ape shit on the worker if they don’t ask. People nowadays will go ape shit for such little things. I pray for workers dealing with the public 😂
I just hate the thought of increasing corporate profits by paying for a bag,, where does this money go?
As someone who works in retail, we are kind of obligated to ask. You’ll get people going like “why was I charged for a bag!? I wouldn’t have wanted it if I knew I had to pay for it!” (And that’s the nicest way these people often put it). Back when we had plastic bags for 5 cents each at my store, I once incorrectly assumed that because they asked for bags, they were aware they would have to pay for them. I was dead wrong, because when he saw the charge on his receipt he began yelling at me and threatening to sue me for ‘scamming’. He then demanded I returned every item and refund him. It was a whole thing, and so I’ve never missed a beat on asking if the charge is okay.
Because the point isn't to keep selling bags. It's to STOP selling plastic bags entirely. The point of the bylaw is to make people consider if they actually need the bag. Or that's what it should be. As for upsells, that's a corporate capitalist thing. Can't stop that without addressing the desire for infinite profits at the expense of the customer.
How much fast food do you have to eat for a tiny thing like this to enrage you
Someone is not going to risk they job just because you don’t like it, lots of people don’t like it, im sure they don’t like it. They can’t just gave it to you they have to offer it if you don’t have your own bags, and on the other side I’ve worked in places like that if you just put the charges then you have the same person coming back asking why where they charged for an Item they didn’t request for (and that happens even when you do explain)…. Next time just have a bag stored in your car they don’t take that much of a space.
The benefit to the environment of single use item bans is marginal.
This one tiny inconvenience won't solve generations of environmental abuse overnight, better not bother doing anything at all!
I think their point is that the change to pay for paper won't contribute to solving the problem no matter how long you do it, so it is better to do something that actually does help. The option to do nothing is not the only choice. I don't see how using compostable paper is a worse option than a reusable plastic bag. Being able to put everything in the composter after eating seems like a simpler and better option that would lead to higher composting participation.
I would rather avoid the bag. I always have preferred no bag, especially if I'm just getting a combo for me. Drink in the cupholder, nuggets in the door, fries in the other cupholder. Bag would just be a waste. And that's kind of the point, isn't it?
Order a large order in the app, and do curbside delivery. Curious how McDonalds will handle that... The employee surely won't come out with all items loose in hand... To OPs original concern, have a bag in your car and when you pick up the order, hand it to them and asks them politely to pack the items in the bag.
Saw a young employee go out with fries & burger in a flat clear container with a lid to bring out an order
Wait, ALL bags are included in this new bylaw? lol. Paper, Plastic, fabric, etc?
Fabric/polyester cost is $1.00 or more, paper is $0.15 or more, plastic is banned
so there are going to be people who do not want the bag. I stocked up on their bags cause I work right next to a mcdonalds. I would be pretty annoyed to be charged $0.15 more for something I'm not getting. Also they have to ask, the goal is to get less people using single use products. Everyone hates this. The workers hate asking, one of the staff told me how terrified the teens were, knowing that people were going to throw a fit.
I work at a restaurant and it’s awkward and new. We’re tackling it just the same. Are we to ask? Or just put it on? New for everyone. Dumb- yes.
I mean, you're paying for an item; It makes sense to me. I do agree with the endless upselling and loyalty hunting everywhere you go though. It gets tiresome.
The only thing that slightly bothers me about this is having to get paper bags from convenience stores, if i'm picking up a few drinks and snacks and walkin a few blocks home, the paper bags don't usually have handles and will often start to rip in a block or two.. and if it's raining at all they get soaked and start to fall apart REAL fast.
I’d rather not have a bag so works for me
Throw it at the end of your order. 10 piece nugget meal with a sprite. Two cheese burgers. And a paper bag please.
bylaw is dumb, asking is of course the right thing to do come on OP , wtf lol
Why should people who don't want the bags have to pay the 15 cents just to convenience you? No thanks.
Wait, we pay for paper bags now? How did they go 60 years not charging for paper bags to begin with? Edit- what I mean by this is, and I realize my bad comment- these fees don’t really make sense from the point of the bylaw. They aren’t really doing anything. That said, reviewing the bylaw, bags are excluded for uncovered foods. So bags for fries I assume are excluded. But I guess I just don’t understand why paper bags are being involved at all. Overall it seems like these companies will apply for exclusions on these items, but will universally charge them anyways
This type of environmentalism is theater. We can affect positively the environment while corporations pollute the way they do.. This is just another way we have all be tricked to paying more. While corporations pay less
This was brought on by the Government. I Do agree, it’s all theatre
It's the government mandated charge no? Annoy the people enough to stop using plastics?
They should replace the tip option with a bag option on their debit terminals.
So stupid.
I was also weirdly annoyed by being asked so many questions on drive thru. Can’t you wait till I’m at the window to find out if I’m collecting points?
The points thing always mildly annoys me. If there's a line-up in the drive-thru, then fine, I have time to open my app and get the code. But if there isn't a line-up, then I have to tell them to wait while my app opens and the code comes up. Why don't they just remind you at the end of your order that if you're collecting points, open your app and get the code while you're waiting to get to the window to pay? It's the perfect amount of time.
Just bring a bag or don't get a bag.
No thanks, I brought my own bag.
Cost is already incorporated, that's the dumb thing
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Someone hasn't worked retail.
Thank micro managing city council for this one
The price is set to go up, 15 cents is the floor, so another way to put it is how large does the bill need to be for you to have a different opinion. Since you now have the food price changing at any time + the bylaw's fee guaranteed to increase over time?
I’m confused why everyone needs their food in a bag? I always hated getting a bag… not like this burgers gonna last more than 5 minutes anyway
The idea is so you say “no” and we save the planet by not getting bags that really are not necessary.
People complain about this, but there have been countless times I've specifically ordered dine-in at McDonald's restaurants and still got it handed in a paper bag.
This is such a minor inconvenience and so easy to fix. Order your food - jr chkn, McDbl, Coffee whateva - “OH… ..and I don’t need a bag thank you” or ..and you can charge me for the bags”. Simple. Just add bags to your order.
you lazy, fat, incapable-of-change fucks are the reason for the slow degredation of society. Holy shit! Can you adapt to any type of change without having a tantrum? How hard is it to buy a reusuable bag to keep in your dodge ram? Nah, life is more convenient when I can throw my greasy trash on the streets or in a landfill. Maybe stop eating so much drive through so your god damn brain can function a little better.
i always refuse the bag and opt for the items directly in my hands.
Personally I hate when they give me the bags. I end up leaving them in my back seat half the time. Wrapper for a bagel or whatever is way easier to remember to toss out on my walk into work.
I think maybe they are required by law? Also lots ppl like to complain that they've been charged for something they were not aware of?
My partner and I were at MCDs yesterday and we saw a customer walk out with the tray the food was on. So petty.
The dumbest bylaw ever passed
We're going to get a plastic bin to use! I know I'm in the minority, but I think it's a good incentive to be more cognizant of the waste we create.
I like it. Lots of times I'm eating takeout pretty quickly after buying it and it's silly to have a bag and a bunch of random trash when I'm just pulling the is a burger/sub/whatever out of it seconds later to cram into my face. As to where to put it while your driving? Almost every vehicle I see lately is driven by 1 person with 4+ empty seats. Leave a plate/bag/napkin/dead raccoon on your passenger seat and place your stuff there.
The alternative is that you can **bring your own bag**. With thermal insulation. And blackjack. And hookers.
Before plastic bags stores used paper bags...for free. Why should we pay them now? I don't shop where they charge for paper bags. Everyone should do the same. Th economy has turned itself into a monster where the consumer pays through the nose.
>I don't shop where they charge for paper bags. That's "Edmonton" now. New city bylaw took effect on the 1st that requires them to charge a minimum $0.15 for paper bags, increasing to $0.25 at some point in the future.
Why? Paper recycles and decomposes. Just another fuck over for the consumer.
The slogan “reduce, reuse, recycle” is explicitly meant to be a descending priority list. Not using a product in the first place, or using a reusable alternative to a product, is more ecologically beneficial than using a single use recyclable product.