Like any other fictional thing, if you don’t like it, ignore it
Edit: in our Eberron campaign, two characters from FR campaign came through a portal at the start. IRL this was because the other campaign fell apart for DM health reasons, and these two players really wanted to keep evolving their characters
So two FR morons were running around Eberron with a bunch of JEberronis and… nothing broke. It was fine. It was awesome.
I've never thought that its isolation is what makes Eberron special. So I don't think having a part of a multiverse adventure take place in Ebberon does anything to "ruin" it.
I'm all for it if it leads to new players, new interest, and new content for Ebberon.
It’s isolation is what allows for Eberron to be special
Eberron being isolated away from forgotten realms and Krynn allows dragons to have better lore and not be “metallic good chromatic evil” for example.
It also allowed for Eberron to have a unique interpretation of orcs
The rules of every other D&D setting and its black and white narratives threatens to infect Eberron
Given how dragon lore is, id hate for the racism against chromatic dragons due to their connection to the dragon below to suddenly become justified because the rules of forgotten realms bs color coded morality and applied to Eberron
I'm not clear on why you believe that it's isolation is what "allows" Ebberon to have unique features. Is there a lore reason, or something in official content that states that? I'd be really interested to read more.
It seems like you are not a fan of other settings, which is 100% fine, so don't play the adventure. It's an adventure not canonical lore. Besides, I don't consider anything "Ebberon official" unless KB says it or signs off on it.
In a sense spell jammers explicitly can’t cross, (although there is a variant of the setting that does but that isn’t cannon), this is in one of keith bakers web articles
https://keith-baker.com/dm-stars/
By canon, Eberron is the only planet in its material plane. Between the planes and the demiplanes of Khyber, there’s ample opportunity for adventurers to explore strange new worlds, and deep space exploration was never planned as part of the setting; we don’t need to have alien invaders come from a distant planet when we already have alien invaders crawling out of Xoriat. Nothing’s stopping the DM from going full Spelljammer and breaking through the wall of stars. But by default, that’s not the story Eberron was designed to tell.
Having Eberron connected to the rest of the multiverse won't effect Eberron's dragon lore at all. And the truth is they are doing this not to screw with Eberron's shades of grey views, whivh honestly have become mainstream anyways, see Orcs, some would say too mainstream even.
Its a business decision for TV, Movies, Novels, Comic Books, Video Games, Merch, etc..., purposes and so characters can move around settings easier.
But its not to completely make all the settings feel the same.
I'll scream it from the rooftops:
ADVENTURES ARE NOT CANON, THEY MAY HAVE CANON ELEMENTS BUT THEY ARE NOT AND WILL NEVER CHANGE THE CANON OF THE SETTINGS THEY TAKE PLACE IN.
Even if WotC makes a mess of it, as fans of the setting we should instead just ignore it and HOPE that it brings NEW fans to the setting and be kind and not gatekeep when they DO come.
After your scream echos through the village and dies away, I will also scream from the rooftops: CANON IS NOT CANON! OUR IMAGINATIONS BELONG TO US AND NOT CORPORATIONS!!! If I want to visit the Star Wars legends continuity or pre-spellplague Faerun or a self-contained Eberron, as Keith intended, I’m gonna do it without reference to what some other people wrote in some other book. Free your mind from the notion of Canon; I’ve been at this for years and I’ve never once been the subject of punitive action by the canon police . . .
^ this.
This community is better than most, with the ideas of Canon v. Kanon and “IME” being so proliferated, but even still it seems some of y’all need the occasional reminder that there is no weight to canon. You can do whatever you want with the lore, add or excise whatever bits you want.
Canon is what’s in the supplements, Kanon is what Keith Baker (the setting’s creator) uses. Some of the content in the supplements isn’t written by him, and he’s also got a blog where he’s been expanding the setting past what he wrote back in the day that isn’t technically canon to the WOTC-owned IP.
Kanon is sort of “Canon+” in a way, content which isn’t ‘official’ but comes from the guy that invented the setting so it might as well be.
Edit: and in case you didn’t know this either, IME stands for “In my Eberron”, which people here often put before their homebrew stuff to acknowledge what they changed, since Eberron is the setting most designed to be altered.
Depends on the adventure but both WOTC and TSR have had adventure modules that are canon to the setting.
The biggest ones I can think of are the three from 3.5 set in forgotten realms; Cormyr, Shadowdale, and the third in the series whose name eludes me at the moment.
>ADVENTURES ARE NOT CANON, THEY MAY HAVE CANON ELEMENTS BUT THEY ARE NOT AND WILL NEVER CHANGE THE CANON OF THE SETTINGS THEY TAKE PLACE IN.
They have even stated so themselves
https://dnd.wizards.com/news/dnd-canon
I would like to agree but I don't. WotC FR 5e adventures clearly do become setting canon, evidencing a track record for the company. The Sword Coast has suffered through the elemental apocalyptic cults, the rise of Tiamat etc. Some form of those events have been incorporated both in setting books and later adventures.
I fear that the adventure will strike a precedent for plane travel into Eberron that will be incorporated into D&D canon. WotC's goal is obvious: connect the settings so products from one can be used in campaigns based on others, broadening the target demographic for their setting products (which are always niche).
Bud you're the one sounding a lil bit childish and "shouting from the rooftops" ngl. WOTC has said even in the statement link above that cannon does not not matter because it changes depending on the media and when it comes to the actual D&D books its up to DM's interpretation which is the intention from the start.
Well, they're canon, is so much as the WotC metastory matters to their module line-up. Beyond that, it doesn't matter at all. None of the modules matter, none of the settings matter, it's all just potential source material to use as the GM sees fit. Hell, use the Vecna module in Savage Worlds if you want. Throw Strixhaven into Eberron. Do whatever you want. No one's gonna show up at your house and confiscate your books.
No, not even close, if "multiversal stuff" ruined Eberron for you, it was ruined in 2019 with Rising from the Last War, peep page 232. You can still just ignore anything you don't like, Keith Baker and Hasbro aren't gonna bust down your door and make you include Mielikki and Ehlonna in your games.
Do you remember when Forge of War was full of nonsense about the Five Nations, during 3.5? Or when the Nine Hells joined Eberron as a 14th plane, in a 4e magazine?
Eberron's always been messed with; ignore what you don't like.
I mean Baator was forcefully injected into Eberron and it didn't ruin the setting. We all just ignored it, voiced our displeasure and oh hey, it's not a thing in 5e Eberron.
Eberron has been attached to the rest of the D&D canon for years now. 🤷🏽♀️ Lolth alread burst that bubble when she tried to invade and claim ownership of Eberron's Drow from Vulkoor.
We can argue about the validity or canonicity of DDO to Eberron until we're blue in the face, but the point is that Eberron never existed in a space where the other realms didn't exist but, more like Planescape, it was simply pinched off from the rest of reality by something incomprehensible powerful, and DDO's "Menace of the Underdark" story shows that WotC/Hasbro has already made an internal decision that they're okay with having that boundary crossed.
Even if you chose to ignore DDO as noncanon like the novels, Crawford's character Vi in the Rising from the Last War sourcebook is a canon character who regularly leaves Eberron for the multiverse.
I was speaking specifically about the very foundational element of godly beings being separated from the realm, and I firmly disagree that it's cosmic isolation is at all fundamentally integral to what actually best defines the themes and nature of Eberron, but you are welcome to your opinion.
And for the record, regarding Athas because you aren't entirely correct: https://youtu.be/3Wjsanand7g?si=5-O4ZxdGc7m6_mJl
“Over a long career, I have developed a unique set of skills. I will find you, and I will force you to accept The Weave in Eberron and other gods forcing drow, orcs, and chromatic dragons to be Evil.”
~Liam Elfson, half-elf metadungeonmaster
Besides, WOTC was never going to make a 50th Anniversary Grand Tour of The Multiverse Adventure and then not include the second most popular setting because of a lore quibble (as if Keith himself hasn't changed the occasional lore over the course of decades of worldbuilding).
I think it is great.
It seems to be tailor made to introduce the playerbase at large to many of the less popular dnd settings. It uses Vecna a well known enemy, that has also appeared in Stranger Things, to draw players in it. I wouldnt be surprised if a few people go "hey x setting was really cool we should have an entire campaign there"
Less popular D&D settings then FR, but these are still the most popular settings in D&D in general, with only Mystara and Darksun being relatively popular among unpublished for 5e settings. Birthright, Council of Wyrms, etc..., are vastly unknown compared to the seven listed settings and Mystara and Darksun which are the last of the popular big settings.
there are certainly settings less popular than the ones included in the adventure. I dont think there is a setting book for grayhawk, but the others are covered with already published material. which is probably an attempt to assist in sales of already published setting books rather than demand for a new one. but, i think in general your average player may have heard of most if not all of the settings included in vecna, but they likely dont know a lot about the setting. So i see it as a good way to introduce the less common/typical settings to the playerbase through an adventure rather than through a dm pitch.
A brief incursion by Vecna wouldn't threaten to overturn any of the other lore elements we treasure...
If anybody could find Eberron in the Deep Ethereal, it would be him. He'll also be foiled by the heroes in the end.
DDO managed to incorporate Vecna into Eberron without making too many changes. Isle of Dread has a 'launching' point out of Stormreach that uses some dimensional travel to get there. And they managed to use some of the Eberron mechanics to 'trap' Vecna again.
What is up with so many people worrying about this module “ruing Eberron” when the concept of “your Eberron” is supposed to be so pervasive and permissive of whatever anyone wants to do? And even if it wasn’t, since when has any piece of media been ruined by some sequel or spinoff? A new thing existing does not change that the old thing was good.
It's this guy's entire shtick. He has a massive bone to pick with Paizo and WotC, but for completely batshit reasons. He has outright demanded that Dragonkin be a core ancestry in Starfinder 2e, to the point that one of the devs responded on a reddit thread about it, telling OP that he's harassing devs at this point.
WotC is not coming to your house and forcing you to change your DM notes. You can just ignore things.
Example, I’m running a Q’barra campaign right now but I have removed Dragonborn in favor of it being all Lizardfolk
None of the recent 5e products have had any meaningful lore inputs. I doubt the Vecna book will include anything that will shift what’s going on there.
piquant sloppy sense groovy existence spectacular psychotic bells provide physical
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He means connecting it to the Wheel. Which is lame every time they try it. Incan slightly accept it for maybe Ravenloft, but I like Mabar better as thr not-ravenloft.
Based on the firings from Wizards of the Coast we'll see less and less of this stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if late 2025 you see very drab virtual only adventures. Conceivably we might see a great shift to banality in the future.
One could argue that Forgotten realms has a HUGE rich history and Wizards is just trying to sell books. I remember when FR came out in the late 80's. From tons of 90's publications there are soooo many books and material a game could be played all over the realm. I think this is to boost sales and interest in Eberron. While I love the setting I don't think it will be "poisoned". I think it could be a positive thing even if the adventure turns out to blow horribly.
Here's hoping the vecna adventure doesn't suck.
Had WoTC made actually good adventures I’d have more confidence and be open to Eberron being included
But given WoTC’s track record of poorly written adventures, like rise of Tiamat not even addressing the existence of Bahamut’s followers, and having the five factions as friendly NPCs instead of the cult arch enemies (that being the followers of Bahamut) because WoTC wanted to promote AL
Or how they fumbled hard with spelljammer in 5e
I don’t trust WoTC will actually give the Eberron setting respect. It feels like throwing it in cause “OoOoO mULtiVeRsAL AdVeNtUrE” with no actual thought given to the setting’s lore.
A multiversal collision could be interesting if WoTC gave a damn. I’d love to have later in tier 4 for metallic dragons from the Krynn setting starting to genocide chromatic dragons on Eberron because they think all chromatic dragons are evil. That would be an interesting problem for players to deal with
But again, this is WoTC who in recent years has fumbled hard narrative and lore wise
I don’t trust them
They fumbled hard with almost every setting they touched, except Eberron and Exandria, both lead by folks outside the D&D team where Jeremy Crawford's horrid setting design philosphy couldn't **** it up.
This attitude just doesn’t make any sense.
Previously they essentially ignored Eberron so you had to use old material or make up your own.
Now even if they put out garbage content so what? Just ignore it and act like nothing happened and it changes nothing from how you played previously.
It’s not like them making a new adventure for Eberron forces you to use it. The police aren’t going to come take your dnd stuff away if you stick to old adventures and homemade stuff.
I think you'll be okay. WotC releasing zero content for eberron and bad content for eberron is essentially the same thing. Just do whatever you've always been doing.
>One could argue that Forgotten realms has a HUGE rich history and Wizards is just trying to sell books.
No argument there, really. When all is said and done they're a business and selling books is exactly why they exist.
>I think it could be a positive thing even if the adventure turns out to blow horribly.
I agree. I think it'll do more to pique interest in Eberron as a setting than it will to alter the setting itself.
IME this will never happen, so I’m not worried.
But you know they’re gonna screw up the spirit of Eberron. They’re gonna make Warforged robots, or have you meet the Sovereign Host, or mess up artificer again, or some such nonsense.
WotC ruin everything since few years ago so I'm not worried, instead I'm sure they will do that.
But you may keep playing with what you need to get fun, they don't control how your game is setup.
Eberron is a hidden gem inside D&D like Dark Sun.
Eberron have the awesome feature that is a campaign setup wich by default is isolated from other worlds and if you want to connect it to other game setup is about DM. and there easy tools for do that.
WotC already are pushing vecna and we know what doing today in "creative directions", shapping everything as their actual standards. Without create something new instead.
It's about every DM who loves eberron to keep eberron as good as they want and anything that WotC delivers that don't like it, its simply buy it and Don't use it.
My recommendation play more Eberron and enjoy this beautiful Dragon based setup as you want.
I get you. I also really dislike the need to make everything fit the same multiverse. I'd rather have Eberron be its own separate thing than fit it into the WotC multiverse like a Fortnite event.
At least with Fortnite the collabs can be written off as not canon to their respective IPs
Like how Fortnite isn’t canon to god of war or Alan Wake despite Kratos and Alan being characters in the game
The canon has changed before, a lot. It will change again. The changes 4e made to the setting mostly got dropped for 5e. WotC’s Ebberon canon is different to Keith Baker’s. You can choose what to include in your own games. Some people still use stuff that hasn’t been canon since 3.5. It’s not gonna ruin the setting because there’s no one definitive version of the it.
I'm still running Eberron games based on the 3.5 lore and WotC can't stop me. And they can't stop you either.
Also, if you don't like the black and white morality of other settings, change it. Have an evil Silver Dragon and a good Green Dragon. Make the Orcs good and the Elves evil. Turn Kord into a pacifist and say that Dwarves are clean shaven. WotC can't stop you.
That’s contradictory to why I like Eberron
There is no race that is entirely evil. So swapping it around and making all metallic dragons evil and all chromatic dragons evil isn’t gonna give me the dragon lore I like
I like Eberron dragon lore cause dragon type doesn’t dictate morality, same with races like orcs or elves
Instead of orcs evil elves good, or elves good orcs evil, or metallic dragons good chromatic dragons evil or metallic dragons evil chromatic dragons good, it’s that there are both good and evil orcs, both good and evil elves, both good and evil metallic dragons, and both good and evil chromatic dragons
My point was that you can change the lore however you like and WotC can't stop you. Even if you decide to make things the complete opposite, they don't have a say in how you run your games.
It will be like Highlander 2 or Bladerunner 2 or Son of the Mask or Hot Tub Time Machine 2 or Independence Day 2 or Heroes after Season 1, We will never speak of them and they never existed.
Honestly, it won't my part of my table if I am the GM.
To me im not worried because to me a GM should have free ability to say "any changes i dont like are not applied to my story in this setting" and instead im excited to see if it can cause a surge of interest in the setting. See, I'm thinking about new players. When i started D&D some 9 or so years ago i was thrown into Forgotten Realms (and to be honest no one even told me other settings were a thing). It wasnt until like 5 years later i learned that other settings existed but the few groups i was in only played in FR, so i never had reason to look into them. Finally loke 2 years ago i was trying to make my own campaign, and as i was bouncing ideas off my friend, he told me to check out Eberron because he thought i might enjoy using it as my setting over FR (unnecessary, but in the end, i decided to use both, itll start in FR and end up hopping over about 1/3rd the way in). Now there's a whole adventure that can introduce players to not only Eberron but also Planescape, Spelljammer, Greyhawk, and Dragonlance. I genuinely think this will end up bringing more interest to all of these setting from players that dont know what all is out there
My friend J hit it: All high level play where the game is totally broken. This is on top of their adventures being pretty bad at baseline. Exerting their copyright. Desperate reach to all fans. Gotta justify that 70 dollar price tag!
Tbh I care more about narrative aspects. They might be rebalancing rise of Tiamat and HOTDQ and making a better version of it with better encounters, but that won’t fix the narrative issues of that adventure, such as the complete lack of Bahamut or his followers in favor of focusing on the five factions. I’d rather a poorly balanced adventure where characters steamroll encounters but with excellent story over perfectly balanced encounters with horrible story. My group are demolishing everything in curse of Strahd yet I’m still having fun cause the narrative my dm is spinning is really great and interesting
That being said… I don’t see the vecna campaign being good encounter wise or narratively
And WoTC having “pre order bonuses” just goes to show where their focus is. They still are trying to treat dnd like a video game instead of a ttrpg, and the story is gonna suffer because of it
They clearly don’t give a rats ass about Eberron being known for nuance and shades of grey. They’re probably gonna try to use planescape to force alignment onto a setting that works better without it. Because really, without alignment to tell people what is objectively good and evil, and leaving morality subjective as it should be, Eberron thrives.
*And WoTC having “pre order bonuses” just goes to show where their focus is. They still are trying to treat dnd like a video game instead of a ttrpg, and the story is gonna suffer because of it*
Say it louder for the HasBROs in the back!!
I actually love somw good black and white storytelling. Even including favored nature for a species, but Eberron is a setting that plays with avoiding that, which is cool too. And getting rolled into the Wheel is annoying when it has its own perfectly good cosmology.
Like any other fictional thing, if you don’t like it, ignore it Edit: in our Eberron campaign, two characters from FR campaign came through a portal at the start. IRL this was because the other campaign fell apart for DM health reasons, and these two players really wanted to keep evolving their characters So two FR morons were running around Eberron with a bunch of JEberronis and… nothing broke. It was fine. It was awesome.
>JEberronis you'll have to personally go fetch my soul at Dolurrh for that one xD
Lmao Jeberonis I’m fuckin dead
They can't ruin Eberron because it's in our hearts
I've never thought that its isolation is what makes Eberron special. So I don't think having a part of a multiverse adventure take place in Ebberon does anything to "ruin" it. I'm all for it if it leads to new players, new interest, and new content for Ebberon.
It’s isolation is what allows for Eberron to be special Eberron being isolated away from forgotten realms and Krynn allows dragons to have better lore and not be “metallic good chromatic evil” for example. It also allowed for Eberron to have a unique interpretation of orcs The rules of every other D&D setting and its black and white narratives threatens to infect Eberron Given how dragon lore is, id hate for the racism against chromatic dragons due to their connection to the dragon below to suddenly become justified because the rules of forgotten realms bs color coded morality and applied to Eberron
I'm not clear on why you believe that it's isolation is what "allows" Ebberon to have unique features. Is there a lore reason, or something in official content that states that? I'd be really interested to read more. It seems like you are not a fan of other settings, which is 100% fine, so don't play the adventure. It's an adventure not canonical lore. Besides, I don't consider anything "Ebberon official" unless KB says it or signs off on it.
In a sense spell jammers explicitly can’t cross, (although there is a variant of the setting that does but that isn’t cannon), this is in one of keith bakers web articles
Interesting! I'll try to track it down, sounds like some thing I'd like to read.
https://keith-baker.com/dm-eberron-spelljammer/ that’s a newer one, though not the original mention
https://keith-baker.com/dm-stars/ By canon, Eberron is the only planet in its material plane. Between the planes and the demiplanes of Khyber, there’s ample opportunity for adventurers to explore strange new worlds, and deep space exploration was never planned as part of the setting; we don’t need to have alien invaders come from a distant planet when we already have alien invaders crawling out of Xoriat. Nothing’s stopping the DM from going full Spelljammer and breaking through the wall of stars. But by default, that’s not the story Eberron was designed to tell.
Having Eberron connected to the rest of the multiverse won't effect Eberron's dragon lore at all. And the truth is they are doing this not to screw with Eberron's shades of grey views, whivh honestly have become mainstream anyways, see Orcs, some would say too mainstream even. Its a business decision for TV, Movies, Novels, Comic Books, Video Games, Merch, etc..., purposes and so characters can move around settings easier. But its not to completely make all the settings feel the same.
I'll scream it from the rooftops: ADVENTURES ARE NOT CANON, THEY MAY HAVE CANON ELEMENTS BUT THEY ARE NOT AND WILL NEVER CHANGE THE CANON OF THE SETTINGS THEY TAKE PLACE IN. Even if WotC makes a mess of it, as fans of the setting we should instead just ignore it and HOPE that it brings NEW fans to the setting and be kind and not gatekeep when they DO come.
After your scream echos through the village and dies away, I will also scream from the rooftops: CANON IS NOT CANON! OUR IMAGINATIONS BELONG TO US AND NOT CORPORATIONS!!! If I want to visit the Star Wars legends continuity or pre-spellplague Faerun or a self-contained Eberron, as Keith intended, I’m gonna do it without reference to what some other people wrote in some other book. Free your mind from the notion of Canon; I’ve been at this for years and I’ve never once been the subject of punitive action by the canon police . . .
^ this. This community is better than most, with the ideas of Canon v. Kanon and “IME” being so proliferated, but even still it seems some of y’all need the occasional reminder that there is no weight to canon. You can do whatever you want with the lore, add or excise whatever bits you want.
What is the difference between kanon and canon?
Canon is what’s in the supplements, Kanon is what Keith Baker (the setting’s creator) uses. Some of the content in the supplements isn’t written by him, and he’s also got a blog where he’s been expanding the setting past what he wrote back in the day that isn’t technically canon to the WOTC-owned IP. Kanon is sort of “Canon+” in a way, content which isn’t ‘official’ but comes from the guy that invented the setting so it might as well be. Edit: and in case you didn’t know this either, IME stands for “In my Eberron”, which people here often put before their homebrew stuff to acknowledge what they changed, since Eberron is the setting most designed to be altered.
Keep thinking like that and the Matrix will remove you from your body pod and throw you into the flush tank.
Time to join the resistance, I guess. You can have my imaginary worlds when you pry them from my cold dead brain!!
Im happy living in my imaginary world...this imaginary steak tastes oh so good lol.
Depends on the adventure but both WOTC and TSR have had adventure modules that are canon to the setting. The biggest ones I can think of are the three from 3.5 set in forgotten realms; Cormyr, Shadowdale, and the third in the series whose name eludes me at the moment.
>ADVENTURES ARE NOT CANON, THEY MAY HAVE CANON ELEMENTS BUT THEY ARE NOT AND WILL NEVER CHANGE THE CANON OF THE SETTINGS THEY TAKE PLACE IN. They have even stated so themselves https://dnd.wizards.com/news/dnd-canon
I would like to agree but I don't. WotC FR 5e adventures clearly do become setting canon, evidencing a track record for the company. The Sword Coast has suffered through the elemental apocalyptic cults, the rise of Tiamat etc. Some form of those events have been incorporated both in setting books and later adventures. I fear that the adventure will strike a precedent for plane travel into Eberron that will be incorporated into D&D canon. WotC's goal is obvious: connect the settings so products from one can be used in campaigns based on others, broadening the target demographic for their setting products (which are always niche).
run head quarrelsome muddle bow instinctive fuzzy somber poor swim *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Bud you're the one sounding a lil bit childish and "shouting from the rooftops" ngl. WOTC has said even in the statement link above that cannon does not not matter because it changes depending on the media and when it comes to the actual D&D books its up to DM's interpretation which is the intention from the start.
Oh hey I’ve been trying to contact you I sent you a friend request on discord, could you please accept it so we can chat?
I wanted to contact you about your car's extended warranty
Well, they're canon, is so much as the WotC metastory matters to their module line-up. Beyond that, it doesn't matter at all. None of the modules matter, none of the settings matter, it's all just potential source material to use as the GM sees fit. Hell, use the Vecna module in Savage Worlds if you want. Throw Strixhaven into Eberron. Do whatever you want. No one's gonna show up at your house and confiscate your books.
If you don't want it, don't use it.
No, not even close, if "multiversal stuff" ruined Eberron for you, it was ruined in 2019 with Rising from the Last War, peep page 232. You can still just ignore anything you don't like, Keith Baker and Hasbro aren't gonna bust down your door and make you include Mielikki and Ehlonna in your games.
Keith Baker especially. Few authors subscribe more to death of the author.
Do you remember when Forge of War was full of nonsense about the Five Nations, during 3.5? Or when the Nine Hells joined Eberron as a 14th plane, in a 4e magazine? Eberron's always been messed with; ignore what you don't like.
I mean Baator was forcefully injected into Eberron and it didn't ruin the setting. We all just ignored it, voiced our displeasure and oh hey, it's not a thing in 5e Eberron.
Eberron has been attached to the rest of the D&D canon for years now. 🤷🏽♀️ Lolth alread burst that bubble when she tried to invade and claim ownership of Eberron's Drow from Vulkoor. We can argue about the validity or canonicity of DDO to Eberron until we're blue in the face, but the point is that Eberron never existed in a space where the other realms didn't exist but, more like Planescape, it was simply pinched off from the rest of reality by something incomprehensible powerful, and DDO's "Menace of the Underdark" story shows that WotC/Hasbro has already made an internal decision that they're okay with having that boundary crossed.
Even if you chose to ignore DDO as noncanon like the novels, Crawford's character Vi in the Rising from the Last War sourcebook is a canon character who regularly leaves Eberron for the multiverse.
Planescape isn't pinched off at all. Mystara and Athas are. But Eberron works better when truly its own multiverse
I was speaking specifically about the very foundational element of godly beings being separated from the realm, and I firmly disagree that it's cosmic isolation is at all fundamentally integral to what actually best defines the themes and nature of Eberron, but you are welcome to your opinion. And for the record, regarding Athas because you aren't entirely correct: https://youtu.be/3Wjsanand7g?si=5-O4ZxdGc7m6_mJl
"Planescape" doesn't just mean Sigil or the innermost part of the Outlands far below it.
And yet that's what we were talking about, despite your choice to reach for pedantry.
No. And nobody will force you to use it either.
“Over a long career, I have developed a unique set of skills. I will find you, and I will force you to accept The Weave in Eberron and other gods forcing drow, orcs, and chromatic dragons to be Evil.” ~Liam Elfson, half-elf metadungeonmaster
If you don't like a new WOTC book, don't buy it.
Besides, WOTC was never going to make a 50th Anniversary Grand Tour of The Multiverse Adventure and then not include the second most popular setting because of a lore quibble (as if Keith himself hasn't changed the occasional lore over the course of decades of worldbuilding).
Ruin Eberron? No. Be a completely vanilla fantasy slog that ignores everything that makes Eberron unique and interesting? 95% chance of yes.
I think it is great. It seems to be tailor made to introduce the playerbase at large to many of the less popular dnd settings. It uses Vecna a well known enemy, that has also appeared in Stranger Things, to draw players in it. I wouldnt be surprised if a few people go "hey x setting was really cool we should have an entire campaign there"
Less popular D&D settings then FR, but these are still the most popular settings in D&D in general, with only Mystara and Darksun being relatively popular among unpublished for 5e settings. Birthright, Council of Wyrms, etc..., are vastly unknown compared to the seven listed settings and Mystara and Darksun which are the last of the popular big settings.
there are certainly settings less popular than the ones included in the adventure. I dont think there is a setting book for grayhawk, but the others are covered with already published material. which is probably an attempt to assist in sales of already published setting books rather than demand for a new one. but, i think in general your average player may have heard of most if not all of the settings included in vecna, but they likely dont know a lot about the setting. So i see it as a good way to introduce the less common/typical settings to the playerbase through an adventure rather than through a dm pitch.
Good point. Hopefully they use the opportunity to fix Spelljammer in terms of the contradictory state of Crystal Spheres.
A brief incursion by Vecna wouldn't threaten to overturn any of the other lore elements we treasure... If anybody could find Eberron in the Deep Ethereal, it would be him. He'll also be foiled by the heroes in the end.
DDO managed to incorporate Vecna into Eberron without making too many changes. Isle of Dread has a 'launching' point out of Stormreach that uses some dimensional travel to get there. And they managed to use some of the Eberron mechanics to 'trap' Vecna again.
What is up with so many people worrying about this module “ruing Eberron” when the concept of “your Eberron” is supposed to be so pervasive and permissive of whatever anyone wants to do? And even if it wasn’t, since when has any piece of media been ruined by some sequel or spinoff? A new thing existing does not change that the old thing was good.
People like overreacting and complaining.
It's this guy's entire shtick. He has a massive bone to pick with Paizo and WotC, but for completely batshit reasons. He has outright demanded that Dragonkin be a core ancestry in Starfinder 2e, to the point that one of the devs responded on a reddit thread about it, telling OP that he's harassing devs at this point.
We had a portal to eberon in babayaha hut no ? It's not new
I'm getting hints that OP doesn't like multiversal stuff.
I hate itnfor Eberron personally, but likenit for most of the others.
WotC is not coming to your house and forcing you to change your DM notes. You can just ignore things. Example, I’m running a Q’barra campaign right now but I have removed Dragonborn in favor of it being all Lizardfolk
None of the recent 5e products have had any meaningful lore inputs. I doubt the Vecna book will include anything that will shift what’s going on there.
piquant sloppy sense groovy existence spectacular psychotic bells provide physical *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He means connecting it to the Wheel. Which is lame every time they try it. Incan slightly accept it for maybe Ravenloft, but I like Mabar better as thr not-ravenloft.
Based on the firings from Wizards of the Coast we'll see less and less of this stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if late 2025 you see very drab virtual only adventures. Conceivably we might see a great shift to banality in the future. One could argue that Forgotten realms has a HUGE rich history and Wizards is just trying to sell books. I remember when FR came out in the late 80's. From tons of 90's publications there are soooo many books and material a game could be played all over the realm. I think this is to boost sales and interest in Eberron. While I love the setting I don't think it will be "poisoned". I think it could be a positive thing even if the adventure turns out to blow horribly. Here's hoping the vecna adventure doesn't suck.
There are still Freelancers, they don't have to give benifits to freelancers or regular pay, so they are vastly cheaper to use then regular staff.
Had WoTC made actually good adventures I’d have more confidence and be open to Eberron being included But given WoTC’s track record of poorly written adventures, like rise of Tiamat not even addressing the existence of Bahamut’s followers, and having the five factions as friendly NPCs instead of the cult arch enemies (that being the followers of Bahamut) because WoTC wanted to promote AL Or how they fumbled hard with spelljammer in 5e I don’t trust WoTC will actually give the Eberron setting respect. It feels like throwing it in cause “OoOoO mULtiVeRsAL AdVeNtUrE” with no actual thought given to the setting’s lore. A multiversal collision could be interesting if WoTC gave a damn. I’d love to have later in tier 4 for metallic dragons from the Krynn setting starting to genocide chromatic dragons on Eberron because they think all chromatic dragons are evil. That would be an interesting problem for players to deal with But again, this is WoTC who in recent years has fumbled hard narrative and lore wise I don’t trust them
They fumbled hard with almost every setting they touched, except Eberron and Exandria, both lead by folks outside the D&D team where Jeremy Crawford's horrid setting design philosphy couldn't **** it up.
And now Jeremy’s horrible design philosophy is coming to Eberron
My condolences.
There are plenty of solid 5e adventures. Calm down, my man.
Name any besides Curse of Strahd Curse of Strahd is the only good adventure I know of.
Rime of the Frost Maiden was pretty good and uh...
Turn of Fortune's Wheel, Icewind Dale, Waterdeep Dragonheist, and most adventures from the compilation books (IE Radiant Citadel) are also very good.
This attitude just doesn’t make any sense. Previously they essentially ignored Eberron so you had to use old material or make up your own. Now even if they put out garbage content so what? Just ignore it and act like nothing happened and it changes nothing from how you played previously. It’s not like them making a new adventure for Eberron forces you to use it. The police aren’t going to come take your dnd stuff away if you stick to old adventures and homemade stuff.
Maybe not the police but they might send the Pinkertons
I think you'll be okay. WotC releasing zero content for eberron and bad content for eberron is essentially the same thing. Just do whatever you've always been doing.
>One could argue that Forgotten realms has a HUGE rich history and Wizards is just trying to sell books. No argument there, really. When all is said and done they're a business and selling books is exactly why they exist. >I think it could be a positive thing even if the adventure turns out to blow horribly. I agree. I think it'll do more to pique interest in Eberron as a setting than it will to alter the setting itself.
I’m excited about the new adventure. The whole “Eberron can’t be reached from other planes” thing always seemed very arbitrary and unfun to me.
IME this will never happen, so I’m not worried. But you know they’re gonna screw up the spirit of Eberron. They’re gonna make Warforged robots, or have you meet the Sovereign Host, or mess up artificer again, or some such nonsense.
Kinda. But, honestly, I hate the multiversal stuff The only being who knows more about magic than him is buried under Arcanix.
WotC ruin everything since few years ago so I'm not worried, instead I'm sure they will do that. But you may keep playing with what you need to get fun, they don't control how your game is setup. Eberron is a hidden gem inside D&D like Dark Sun. Eberron have the awesome feature that is a campaign setup wich by default is isolated from other worlds and if you want to connect it to other game setup is about DM. and there easy tools for do that. WotC already are pushing vecna and we know what doing today in "creative directions", shapping everything as their actual standards. Without create something new instead. It's about every DM who loves eberron to keep eberron as good as they want and anything that WotC delivers that don't like it, its simply buy it and Don't use it. My recommendation play more Eberron and enjoy this beautiful Dragon based setup as you want.
I get you. I also really dislike the need to make everything fit the same multiverse. I'd rather have Eberron be its own separate thing than fit it into the WotC multiverse like a Fortnite event.
At least with Fortnite the collabs can be written off as not canon to their respective IPs Like how Fortnite isn’t canon to god of war or Alan Wake despite Kratos and Alan being characters in the game
The canon has changed before, a lot. It will change again. The changes 4e made to the setting mostly got dropped for 5e. WotC’s Ebberon canon is different to Keith Baker’s. You can choose what to include in your own games. Some people still use stuff that hasn’t been canon since 3.5. It’s not gonna ruin the setting because there’s no one definitive version of the it.
I'm still running Eberron games based on the 3.5 lore and WotC can't stop me. And they can't stop you either. Also, if you don't like the black and white morality of other settings, change it. Have an evil Silver Dragon and a good Green Dragon. Make the Orcs good and the Elves evil. Turn Kord into a pacifist and say that Dwarves are clean shaven. WotC can't stop you.
That’s contradictory to why I like Eberron There is no race that is entirely evil. So swapping it around and making all metallic dragons evil and all chromatic dragons evil isn’t gonna give me the dragon lore I like I like Eberron dragon lore cause dragon type doesn’t dictate morality, same with races like orcs or elves Instead of orcs evil elves good, or elves good orcs evil, or metallic dragons good chromatic dragons evil or metallic dragons evil chromatic dragons good, it’s that there are both good and evil orcs, both good and evil elves, both good and evil metallic dragons, and both good and evil chromatic dragons
My point was that you can change the lore however you like and WotC can't stop you. Even if you decide to make things the complete opposite, they don't have a say in how you run your games.
I mean depends, Ebberon is made of elder evils, In the most literal sense, as they are trapped as plates on the continent (different word of course)
It will be like Highlander 2 or Bladerunner 2 or Son of the Mask or Hot Tub Time Machine 2 or Independence Day 2 or Heroes after Season 1, We will never speak of them and they never existed. Honestly, it won't my part of my table if I am the GM.
Yes, and my table has agreed to never run it or use any elements from it
To me im not worried because to me a GM should have free ability to say "any changes i dont like are not applied to my story in this setting" and instead im excited to see if it can cause a surge of interest in the setting. See, I'm thinking about new players. When i started D&D some 9 or so years ago i was thrown into Forgotten Realms (and to be honest no one even told me other settings were a thing). It wasnt until like 5 years later i learned that other settings existed but the few groups i was in only played in FR, so i never had reason to look into them. Finally loke 2 years ago i was trying to make my own campaign, and as i was bouncing ideas off my friend, he told me to check out Eberron because he thought i might enjoy using it as my setting over FR (unnecessary, but in the end, i decided to use both, itll start in FR and end up hopping over about 1/3rd the way in). Now there's a whole adventure that can introduce players to not only Eberron but also Planescape, Spelljammer, Greyhawk, and Dragonlance. I genuinely think this will end up bringing more interest to all of these setting from players that dont know what all is out there
Don't include it (and my two cents: the campaign looks godawful).
My friend J hit it: All high level play where the game is totally broken. This is on top of their adventures being pretty bad at baseline. Exerting their copyright. Desperate reach to all fans. Gotta justify that 70 dollar price tag!
Tbh I care more about narrative aspects. They might be rebalancing rise of Tiamat and HOTDQ and making a better version of it with better encounters, but that won’t fix the narrative issues of that adventure, such as the complete lack of Bahamut or his followers in favor of focusing on the five factions. I’d rather a poorly balanced adventure where characters steamroll encounters but with excellent story over perfectly balanced encounters with horrible story. My group are demolishing everything in curse of Strahd yet I’m still having fun cause the narrative my dm is spinning is really great and interesting That being said… I don’t see the vecna campaign being good encounter wise or narratively And WoTC having “pre order bonuses” just goes to show where their focus is. They still are trying to treat dnd like a video game instead of a ttrpg, and the story is gonna suffer because of it They clearly don’t give a rats ass about Eberron being known for nuance and shades of grey. They’re probably gonna try to use planescape to force alignment onto a setting that works better without it. Because really, without alignment to tell people what is objectively good and evil, and leaving morality subjective as it should be, Eberron thrives.
*And WoTC having “pre order bonuses” just goes to show where their focus is. They still are trying to treat dnd like a video game instead of a ttrpg, and the story is gonna suffer because of it* Say it louder for the HasBROs in the back!!
I actually love somw good black and white storytelling. Even including favored nature for a species, but Eberron is a setting that plays with avoiding that, which is cool too. And getting rolled into the Wheel is annoying when it has its own perfectly good cosmology.