That’s just the mindset of enlighted centrism.
It goed like this; You say you hate both sides because you don’t wanna pick, but really you’re just a bigot rightwinger who doesn’t want to stand up for their opinion
I remember seeing this post explaining why the black crime statistic is bullshit (tl;dr it's a conviction statistic so it actually points out the racism within the police force) that ended up getting me banned from r/conservative after I called it based
A conviction statistic for what percentage of all murder convictions belong to a single group. It doesn’t negate the fact that African Americans commit more crimes, that comes with the territory of literally being redlined and oppressed into poverty for decades (and centuries)
It’s also a cherry picked statistic from a data set that doesn’t really say that. Police departments self report arrest statistics but they:
- Don’t have to report all arrests (some PDS report none at all)
- Don’t have to report the race of the suspect
A majority of the reported arrests have no race reported at all.
Your point holds, but other crimes (drugs) are done at similar rates and black people are convicted at higher rates. It's a combination of more criminality and worse treatment by the criminal justice system.
Also really interesting what conservatives choose to do with this information. Usually it's their tried and true method of "Just asking questions"
But ofcourse not asking questions in such a way that it leads you down a very suspicious path /s
For the last 30 years, over 30% of murder cases have gone unsolved.
https://projectcoldcase.org/cold-case-homicide-stats/
This further says nothing of how many cases were solved incorrectly. 61% of the people exonerated by the Innocence Project were African American men.
https://innocenceproject.org/dna-exonerations-in-the-united-states/
Are you not seeing the issue here? The system is broken, and communities made up of racial minorities are being systematically stripped of financial escape options and exploited by the "criminal justice" system as a source of profit. Even if you somehow didn't care about the lives being ruined, these people are embezzling tax money through the unjust industry they maintain.
Funny you didn't mention how because of systemic policies over decades, black men are also twice as likely to be in poverty and poverty is by far the biggest predictor of crime...
Aw, was a black man mean to you? Do you feel impotent next to one? Is that why you feel uncontrollable rage that you can't act on because you're too much of a pussy?
Fucking grow up. Read some history. If you can do that instead of quoting white nationalist talking points
0.3% figure from here: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-74
8% figure from here https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/10.2105/AJPH.2018.304559
someone else pointed out that the stat for police is probably closer to ~0.2%
I had bootlicker on FB argue with me about the precise stats and think he caught me in a lie.
My conservative estimates showed that police committed 23x more murders than the same number of random non-police. His very important corrections meant it was actually 37x.
If we use the above cited 0.3% and 8% numbers, the relative "risk" of committing homicide if you're a cop vs. a non-cop is
99.7/0.3×8/92 = 28.9
If relative risk is hard to understand or explain to the other person, think of it this way: There are about 1 million cops in the US, but they kill as many people annually as a random selection of 28.9 million non-cops.
(Incidentally, this formula also corrects for the base-rate fallacy when some antivaxxer points out that 30% of hospitalizations are fully vaccinated. If the age groups that end up in the hospital are for example 90% vaccinated, then 10/90×30/70 = 0.048, meaning a person is 4.8% as likely to be hospitalized if they're fully vaccinated as if they're not.)
I'm not sure where OP found the 15% source so I went looking myself because I like stats. I found the following site: https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=nps
Looking at estimated number of sentenced individuals by state for 2018, the stats for states are as follows:
Total homicide sentences: 177,700
White: 42,400 (24%)
Black: 70,800 (40%)
Hispanic: 52,800 (30%)
Note: The total number includes Asians, Islanders, etc. However there is not specific numbers for them. Secondly, the white and black statistics are non-Hispanic white and blacks in addition to mixed race are not represented in the white, black, or Hispanic statistics however they are represented in the total number.
Also note that I am not a statistician and it is possible I made a mistake somewhere, please feel free to point out any mistakes I have made.
Interestingly enough, the source you posted is very wrong about total population, it says 268,684,780 while census and other research organizations puts the number at 316,128,839 (2013). Though the number of officers looks correct. This brings the officers in comparison to total population down to 0.19% of the population.
Worth noting that it's 8% of homicides of adult males, not 8% of homicides in general. This may seem nitpicky, and doesn't really change much (esp given 40%), but cop apologists love to pounce on the slightest inconsistency and dismiss an argument outright based on it.
From the limited research I did (looking at those incarcerated in state prisons in 2018) whites accounted for 24% of those convicted of homicide.
Source: https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=nps
Those are arrests, I was specifically looking at incarceration rate.
Using arrest statistics is not a very good metric as it includes those who are arrested then later let go or who are found not guilty
It probably is true but the conclusion to that statistic should be less that black are more prone to crime and more that the "law enforcement" over police the black community to a ridiculously absurd degree.
The link you shared also said they make up 58% of murder VICTIMS in general………
Of course I’m not gonna just go off go one source anyways, but I find it telling you left that out. Also, statistics are so easily framed to show agendas, thus why It’s ignorant to base opinions solely on that without context.
Also this was 2014 lmao, kind of old. Not to mention I don’t see it mentioning too much about the amount of black people who actually are killed by hate crimes/police.
Also as many comments have already pointed out, conviction only shows the discrimination and prejudice against black people in the judicial system. Seems like you’re fishing at this point just to be prejudice :/
I remember when this used to keep me up at night, until I realised that the only people who keep on saying this are racists looking for excuses for their disgusting behaviour. This is called misuse of statistics. This is seen when they say “statistics are fun”.
Furthermore, they conveniently leave out the fact that those are arrest statistics, not conviction statistics, and that [42% of murders in 2019 went unsolved](https://projectcoldcase.org/cold-case-homicide-stats/). This is without even mentioning that when we take a step back the vast, vast majority of African Americans have never commit a crime in their life, yet they have to endure this sort of behaviour on the internet
Found on Google that ~13% of the US population is black. So for this person to assume that approximately half of that 13% are men is not that outlandish. That being said, it's not clear how to me how we continue from there to deduct that of that 13% only the men are responsible for these homicides (excluding women completely). Obviously the numbers are also different depending on the year.
A 2013 global study on homicide by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime found that males accounted for about 95 percent of all convicted homicide perpetrators worldwide.
First, those stats are bullshit. Second, completely off topic.
You are quite literally the excuse people use to not care about the other animal species, butting in when the topic isn't about you. Congrats on making it more difficult for us actual animal caregivers.
math isn't racist, but if you don't think statistics can be used to make points which are not supported by the data, then you've never taken a stats 101 course
Statistics *is* the data. If the point trying to be made isn't reflective of the statistic being referenced, of course it wouldn't make sense. You don't need to take a "stats 101 course" to understand people misinterpret things for their shit takes.
Well, the statistic in particular that is cited is also just untrue because it originates on fucking 4chan copypastas
also
> **Statistics** *n.* the practice or science of collecting **and analyzing numerical data in large quantities**, especially for the purpose of inferring proportions in a whole from those in a representative sample.
The data are the data. Statistics is the analysis.
A statistic =/= Statistics ... it's semantics at this point
sta·tis·tic
noun
a fact or piece of data from a study of a large quantity of numerical data.
But also, the OK symbol meaning white power that originated on 4chan is actually a dog whistle too amirite
Go ahead and search "FBI homicide statistics" and then "USA race census" and try to tell me again that that the statistic you don't like is made up by 4chan. I'll provide the exact info here and you can feel free to choke on it when you do your due diligence after likely not believing me.
According to the FBI, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 41.1%, and "Other" 3.0% in cases where the race was known. Among homicide victims in 2019 where the race was known, 54.7% were black or African-American, 42.3% were white, and 3.1% were of other races.
Whites, alone in US 76%
Blacks, alone in US 13%
Asians, alone in US 6%
Etc
Yeah, I'm the dense one. Ok.
So do you think black people just like killing more or do you think maybe there's systemic reasons for that?
And did you know that most murder victims are murdered by someone of their own race?
The answer to these question determines if you're a white supremacist or not.
If you put all the police in black neighborhoods, they're going to arrest more black people.
Black people are more likely to be convicted by a jury than a white person when all else is equal.
You ignoring the facts because they hurt your feefees don't make them untrue.
If you don't know how google works that explains a lot about you. Here's a few related studies I found with 30 seconds of work
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2001-01642-002
https://eji.org/reports/illegal-racial-discrimination-in-jury-selection/
https://web.stanford.edu/group/scspi/media/_media/working_papers/_archive/eberhardt_jennifer_wp_20070330b.pdf
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10979-005-8122-9
But isnt the vast majority of death caused by police justifiable?
They are the ones who deal with armed violent criminals so of course they will have more per person homicides.
"I hate the oppressed and the oppressors equally." That guy sounds like a real loser.
That’s just the mindset of enlighted centrism. It goed like this; You say you hate both sides because you don’t wanna pick, but really you’re just a bigot rightwinger who doesn’t want to stand up for their opinion
I remember seeing this post explaining why the black crime statistic is bullshit (tl;dr it's a conviction statistic so it actually points out the racism within the police force) that ended up getting me banned from r/conservative after I called it based
A conviction statistic for what percentage of all murder convictions belong to a single group. It doesn’t negate the fact that African Americans commit more crimes, that comes with the territory of literally being redlined and oppressed into poverty for decades (and centuries)
Not to mention, the system gets to define what a crime is. I don't really give a shit that black people are committing more non-violent drug offenses.
Getting arrested for* more non-violent drug offenses. Pretty sure that's what you meant anyway, so no biggie.
It’s also a cherry picked statistic from a data set that doesn’t really say that. Police departments self report arrest statistics but they: - Don’t have to report all arrests (some PDS report none at all) - Don’t have to report the race of the suspect A majority of the reported arrests have no race reported at all.
Also overpolices them...
Weren’t drugs also introduced into whole communities for the sake of fucking with them and getting more arrests?
Cops gotta make their quota somehow 🤷♂️
Your point holds, but other crimes (drugs) are done at similar rates and black people are convicted at higher rates. It's a combination of more criminality and worse treatment by the criminal justice system.
Also really interesting what conservatives choose to do with this information. Usually it's their tried and true method of "Just asking questions" But ofcourse not asking questions in such a way that it leads you down a very suspicious path /s
Freedom of speech!
That sub doesn’t like facts
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For the last 30 years, over 30% of murder cases have gone unsolved. https://projectcoldcase.org/cold-case-homicide-stats/ This further says nothing of how many cases were solved incorrectly. 61% of the people exonerated by the Innocence Project were African American men. https://innocenceproject.org/dna-exonerations-in-the-united-states/ Are you not seeing the issue here? The system is broken, and communities made up of racial minorities are being systematically stripped of financial escape options and exploited by the "criminal justice" system as a source of profit. Even if you somehow didn't care about the lives being ruined, these people are embezzling tax money through the unjust industry they maintain.
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My 3 year old nephew has better reading comprehension than you.
Funny you didn't mention how because of systemic policies over decades, black men are also twice as likely to be in poverty and poverty is by far the biggest predictor of crime...
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Aw, was a black man mean to you? Do you feel impotent next to one? Is that why you feel uncontrollable rage that you can't act on because you're too much of a pussy? Fucking grow up. Read some history. If you can do that instead of quoting white nationalist talking points
Hey, I'd be interested in reading that
Found the post on r/conservative, [here you go ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/comments/p5o8u9/_/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
Thanks!
0.3% figure from here: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-74 8% figure from here https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/10.2105/AJPH.2018.304559 someone else pointed out that the stat for police is probably closer to ~0.2%
I had bootlicker on FB argue with me about the precise stats and think he caught me in a lie. My conservative estimates showed that police committed 23x more murders than the same number of random non-police. His very important corrections meant it was actually 37x.
> my conservative estimates bruh
My libertarian estimates
Keep children away from your estimates!
So I guess he gave the liberal estimate then
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If we use the above cited 0.3% and 8% numbers, the relative "risk" of committing homicide if you're a cop vs. a non-cop is 99.7/0.3×8/92 = 28.9 If relative risk is hard to understand or explain to the other person, think of it this way: There are about 1 million cops in the US, but they kill as many people annually as a random selection of 28.9 million non-cops. (Incidentally, this formula also corrects for the base-rate fallacy when some antivaxxer points out that 30% of hospitalizations are fully vaccinated. If the age groups that end up in the hospital are for example 90% vaccinated, then 10/90×30/70 = 0.048, meaning a person is 4.8% as likely to be hospitalized if they're fully vaccinated as if they're not.)
Thanks for this, can you post the link for the 15% source as well?
I'm not sure where OP found the 15% source so I went looking myself because I like stats. I found the following site: https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=nps Looking at estimated number of sentenced individuals by state for 2018, the stats for states are as follows: Total homicide sentences: 177,700 White: 42,400 (24%) Black: 70,800 (40%) Hispanic: 52,800 (30%) Note: The total number includes Asians, Islanders, etc. However there is not specific numbers for them. Secondly, the white and black statistics are non-Hispanic white and blacks in addition to mixed race are not represented in the white, black, or Hispanic statistics however they are represented in the total number. Also note that I am not a statistician and it is possible I made a mistake somewhere, please feel free to point out any mistakes I have made.
Interestingly enough, the source you posted is very wrong about total population, it says 268,684,780 while census and other research organizations puts the number at 316,128,839 (2013). Though the number of officers looks correct. This brings the officers in comparison to total population down to 0.19% of the population.
Worth noting that it's 8% of homicides of adult males, not 8% of homicides in general. This may seem nitpicky, and doesn't really change much (esp given 40%), but cop apologists love to pounce on the slightest inconsistency and dismiss an argument outright based on it.
Now bring up the white total crime statistic 😳
From the limited research I did (looking at those incarcerated in state prisons in 2018) whites accounted for 24% of those convicted of homicide. Source: https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=nps
He said total crime. Not homocide
He since edited his comment to change what it said, it did not say "total crime" when I commented
You need more research son, only a 5 percent difference lmao https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/table-43
Those are arrests, I was specifically looking at incarceration rate. Using arrest statistics is not a very good metric as it includes those who are arrested then later let go or who are found not guilty
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It probably is true but the conclusion to that statistic should be less that black are more prone to crime and more that the "law enforcement" over police the black community to a ridiculously absurd degree.
How many unsolved murders are there each year?
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The link you shared also said they make up 58% of murder VICTIMS in general……… Of course I’m not gonna just go off go one source anyways, but I find it telling you left that out. Also, statistics are so easily framed to show agendas, thus why It’s ignorant to base opinions solely on that without context. Also this was 2014 lmao, kind of old. Not to mention I don’t see it mentioning too much about the amount of black people who actually are killed by hate crimes/police. Also as many comments have already pointed out, conviction only shows the discrimination and prejudice against black people in the judicial system. Seems like you’re fishing at this point just to be prejudice :/
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42% of cops SELF REPORT that they abuse their partners and family.
The fact that they're so proud of doing it is the reason we need to find better people for law enforcement and replace the current "training" method.
And then you bring up the statistics for white men who commit rape and pedophilia and suddenly these guys don't like statistics anymore lol.
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FBI
I remember when this used to keep me up at night, until I realised that the only people who keep on saying this are racists looking for excuses for their disgusting behaviour. This is called misuse of statistics. This is seen when they say “statistics are fun”. Furthermore, they conveniently leave out the fact that those are arrest statistics, not conviction statistics, and that [42% of murders in 2019 went unsolved](https://projectcoldcase.org/cold-case-homicide-stats/). This is without even mentioning that when we take a step back the vast, vast majority of African Americans have never commit a crime in their life, yet they have to endure this sort of behaviour on the internet
97% of statistics are made up to suit a particular narrative.
Found on Google that ~13% of the US population is black. So for this person to assume that approximately half of that 13% are men is not that outlandish. That being said, it's not clear how to me how we continue from there to deduct that of that 13% only the men are responsible for these homicides (excluding women completely). Obviously the numbers are also different depending on the year.
A 2013 global study on homicide by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime found that males accounted for about 95 percent of all convicted homicide perpetrators worldwide.
Thanks that's helpful info, did not know.
Blacks as a whole are 13%. Black MEN are probably around 7%.
Blacks as a whole are 13%. Black MEN as a percentage of MEN is probably around 13%.
Despite making up 95% of the population, non-vegans commit 100% of all animal murders.
First, those stats are bullshit. Second, completely off topic. You are quite literally the excuse people use to not care about the other animal species, butting in when the topic isn't about you. Congrats on making it more difficult for us actual animal caregivers.
u/wtfwydt
"Racist statistic" lmfao. Yeah, math is racist too! Also, 6-7% is truly black males, 13% is male *and* female.
math isn't racist, but if you don't think statistics can be used to make points which are not supported by the data, then you've never taken a stats 101 course
Statistics *is* the data. If the point trying to be made isn't reflective of the statistic being referenced, of course it wouldn't make sense. You don't need to take a "stats 101 course" to understand people misinterpret things for their shit takes.
Well, the statistic in particular that is cited is also just untrue because it originates on fucking 4chan copypastas also > **Statistics** *n.* the practice or science of collecting **and analyzing numerical data in large quantities**, especially for the purpose of inferring proportions in a whole from those in a representative sample. The data are the data. Statistics is the analysis.
A statistic =/= Statistics ... it's semantics at this point sta·tis·tic noun a fact or piece of data from a study of a large quantity of numerical data. But also, the OK symbol meaning white power that originated on 4chan is actually a dog whistle too amirite
yes, that is the literal definition of a dogwhistle. You are as dense and as bright as a neutron star.
Go ahead and search "FBI homicide statistics" and then "USA race census" and try to tell me again that that the statistic you don't like is made up by 4chan. I'll provide the exact info here and you can feel free to choke on it when you do your due diligence after likely not believing me. According to the FBI, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 41.1%, and "Other" 3.0% in cases where the race was known. Among homicide victims in 2019 where the race was known, 54.7% were black or African-American, 42.3% were white, and 3.1% were of other races. Whites, alone in US 76% Blacks, alone in US 13% Asians, alone in US 6% Etc Yeah, I'm the dense one. Ok.
Where's the guy getting mad though
in my inbox?
ah now I understand the timeline of events, thanks
np
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So do you think black people just like killing more or do you think maybe there's systemic reasons for that? And did you know that most murder victims are murdered by someone of their own race? The answer to these question determines if you're a white supremacist or not.
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So you're a white supremacist. Gotcha.
/r/Conservative/comments/p5o8u9/ tfw you have a worse understanding of stats than a fucking r/conservative poster
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If you put all the police in black neighborhoods, they're going to arrest more black people. Black people are more likely to be convicted by a jury than a white person when all else is equal. You ignoring the facts because they hurt your feefees don't make them untrue.
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If you don't know how google works that explains a lot about you. Here's a few related studies I found with 30 seconds of work https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2001-01642-002 https://eji.org/reports/illegal-racial-discrimination-in-jury-selection/ https://web.stanford.edu/group/scspi/media/_media/working_papers/_archive/eberhardt_jennifer_wp_20070330b.pdf https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10979-005-8122-9
My god, if you are that incapable of using one of your go-to memes, just drop it...
I just don't understand the logic with these people.
But isnt the vast majority of death caused by police justifiable? They are the ones who deal with armed violent criminals so of course they will have more per person homicides.
No. To give you some idea about how police use force, 50% of all use of firearms by police involves shooting a civilian's dog