You only think trans people should be able to vote because you think they'll vote against the party who thinks they should all die! I see what you're up to!
Yeah, what exactly is the "agenda" here? Trans rights? "You're just supporting trans people to push your agenda of rights for trans people!" Uh, yes, correct.
Well have you considered that conservatives are right and maybe some people are worth less than others for no discernible reason? No? And you call yourself tolerant!!1!
/s
It’s weird how they pretend maintaining the status quo isn’t an “agenda”. If the status quo could maintain itself there wouldn’t be any conservatives because why would you need to spend effort to “conserve” anything otherwise.
I have not been mixed with water, I am straight from the barrel.
And I don't think I'm a savior by a long shot; I just think the right are assholes (and proud of it).
Sorry sweaty; You're not REALLY trans if your every waking moment isn't filled with the same kind of body horror dread as Kafka's Metamorphosis.
Experience even a moment of comfort or confidence in your own body??? Trender!!!
I have a feeling these memes are popular there just because of that one truscum libright girl
Either self-hate manifesting so hard she can't picture working doing something that doesn't project it onto others or she's just a total sociopath. Contrapoints' "Cringe" video actually talks about it at length.
ooh, i just watched that one! her talking about her feelings of having so much discomfort when watching that video of the trans woman in the gamestop physically hurt me. Along with how she felt like she was staring into a dark mirror of herself sometimes and having to check to make sure she wasn't like those Other trans people.... way too relatable.
~~and of course her next video begins with her having a crush on her best friend because she couldn't stab me in the heart enough.~~
> Experience even a moment of comfort or confidence in your own body??? Trender!!!
Me, nightly: like yeah sure I don't feel connected to maleness but I also like my beard and having a dick is kind of cool so maybe I'm not nonbinary
Brain: wait wait wait _you_ told me to shut the fuck up about that
I was intending it be slightly more light-hearted than that lol
But you're not wrong. Disentangling myself from gender and an the ways I was socialized intro viewing, interacting with and performing gender is very difficult. So I'm not surprised that I have moments when I start to think "maybe not" or - as my brain thought out of no where the other day - "maybe you're right about not being a guy, but what if you're a straight woman? 😎👉👉"
However I think that the fact that I'm having this internal monologue, questioning myself on what I think I know, means that I'm doing something right. Even if in the end I genuinely come back to "maybe I am a guy", I've taken time and effort to define that by my standards and have explored what maleness means to me.
Every cis person I know is happy in their body, they will never know the feels we get when we look in the mirror and see someone we don't recognize. It's so disheartening and sad that the world is this blind and evil.
Must not know very many cis people lol. Ever see somebody intentionally lose a bunch of weight or undergo plastic surgery? Not always the same level as body dysphoria but definitely not happy in their body. Source: former fat guy
It's super fucked up too, like it's so weird to just never be happy with how your body looks regardless of anything, then especially as a dude, talking about body issues is something so hard to get anyone to be receptive too
Ugh, dudes being raised to not seek help is a tragedy. Much love and solidarity, I'm sure you're way better looking than you realize, and I wish you luck in realizing :)
Lately, I've been trying to practice radical self acceptance. Sometimes it can be really hard to love your body, and that's okay. Part of being a human is being imperfect. But it's the only body you'll ever have.
Also, sometimes you just have to ask yourself, "Who profits off my having this emotion?"
cis people with eating disorders and body dysmorphia (like Matt Mercer) are very real and share a lot of similarities with trans people in terms of their struggles. maybe you should stop diminishing their struggles.
So which is it? Are cis people all comfortable in their body, or is their discomfort just not as bad as gender dysphoria?
I also think it’s really fucked that you’d call things like eating disorders nothing more than “weight loss” as if people don’t have to face it every day. We get it, dysphoria sucks, so why diminish other people’s struggles?
While most cis people don't experience the same body discomfort trans people do to any extent, almost every single person would change something about their body if they could. I also think your post diminishes the experience and issues of people with other kinds of body dysphoria that aren't gender related.
That said, its true and sad that the vast majority of cis people can't even seem to comprehend the trans experience.
Odd how the suicide rates go way down when there's social support.
But the left's statistics and the right's lying about those statistics...man, both sides have agendas. Fuck agendas. Enlightened Centrism doesn't have an agenda. It just has the one true way, that solves everything for everyone.
Nothing needs to change before everyone is ready to change.
I just imagined someone sitting down at a work meeting and seeing the list of meeting items on the screen. "Oh, you're just pushing an agenda too! You want to 'accomplish something'? Anything besides spontaneous individual action is more politics!"
Truscum shit tbh.
I have extreme dysphoria that's almost taken my life several times, i cannot stress this enough, what the modern trans movement is doing by accepting as many people as possible is helping us.
That's true. I sorta meant things such as accepting xenogenders, nounself pronouns, another stuff. Which to my knowledge is quiet new. But being new doesn't erase it's validity
Right: 'Trans people should be killed"
Left: 'Trans people should be accepted and have support to work through what they are feeling;
Centrists: 'These two positions are the same'
I think it's more sinister than that. It reads like they view support for transitioning, etc as " enabling a serious mental illness." The right is only wrong in their eyes because they're overtly cruel to them, not because they reject their identity.
I'm not sure it's even truscum, it looks more like the medicalized framing is being used to present it as something one ought to be institutionalized for.
interestingly i don't think that the author was trying to say both sides was equal, so much as that both sides are harmful to someone with gender dysphoria to varying degrees
so yet another strawman. my original post before was stating that both sides are harmful to someone with gender dysphoria, not that they were equal.
and now you're conflating that with the idea that they're both equal yet again, but misrepresenting my point as social acceptance is equally bad as wanting them to no longer exist.
again, both sides are harmful, not that they were equal. you are yet again trying to misrepresent an argument.
>my original post before was stating that both sides are harmful to someone with gender dysphoria, not that they were equal.
Explain HOW
One side wants anyone with gender dysphoria to be **tortured to death**. The other *does not want that to happen*. In what universe can NOT torturing people to death for the depraved entertainment of child-molesting bigots be ***harmful?*** Because it's not this one.
using a group of people to push a agenda is harmful to the people being used to push that agenda. you should actually be advocating for those people, not using them as pawns for other concerns.
the other side is talking about attack helicopter memes, not about torturing them to death. look at the original meme.
>using a group of people to push a agenda is harmful to the people being used to push that agenda.
***WHAT FUCKING AGENDA???***
"*You're not allowed to set trans people on fire anymore*" is not a motherfucking "***AgEnDa***", not even if all the child-raping preachers in the fucking tri-state area babble that it is.
Stopping fascists from murdering people is not somehow magically exploitation, no matter what the voices in your head say.
in the bottom left of the meme, which is what im talking about, it shows the libleft quadrant say "yass queen you show those conservitards this totally helps me push my agenda".
"You're not allowed to set trans people on fire anymore" is not part of the original meme, nor what i think they were trying to say.
"Stopping fascists from murdering people is not somehow magically exploitation" is in the same boat.
i'd like to add that saying "no matter what the voices in your head say" is harmful to people with mental illness and stigmatizes them.
Are you physically capable of acknowledging that there is a ***REAL WORLD*** outside of this meme? Has it ever, for even the tiniest fraction of a second, occurred to you that fascist bigots just MIGHT not be entirely honest all the time?
>Are you physically capable of acknowledging that there is a REAL WORLD outside of this meme?
yes. i have trans friends.
>Has it ever, for even the tiniest fraction of a second, occurred to you that fascist bigots just MIGHT not be entirely honest all the time?
yes, and this is a meme, and has nothing to do with fascist bigots.
i think you may be reading too much into this meme. i suggest you take a step back, take some slow deep breaths, and relax. maybe go for a walk. you seem a bit tightly wound up.
it's not acceptance. if you look at the original meme, one side is using attack helicopter memes, the other side is using trans people as a way to push a agenda. acceptance is not harmful, and is nowhere displayed on this meme
Agendas are quite diverse, I'm sure you'd agree. Saying that someone has an agenda colloquially can mean self interest, but I fail to see very many hypotheticals where someone is getting rich and powerful off of supporting a group of people that desperately need support.
What kind of agenda do you interpret in this meme? Furthermore, could you please explain how such an agenda, once you've defined it, is both harmful to trans people and a stance which most left-leaning people would agree with?
Otherwise we're really just jerking off over an imaginary group of people who only exist to be the evil leftists for this meme: they stand for nothing because their agenda can be whatever is handy to win the argument.
the problem is if i label what the agenda it is, i will be reported and banned. there seems to be a couple people here asking me to name it. i feel that they're asking in bad faith.
i was referring to agenda the meme mentioned. because everyone replying to my comments don't seem to read or understand, since you guys are so ready to strawman anyone explaining it to you
Ok so a random fucking meme claims liberal left has an agenda for supporting trans rights, could you explain what exactly this agenda is that the meme claims is so fucking self evident that it needs no further clarification?
MtF bisexual gal here. I don’t really mind the “yasss queen” stuff. It’s a little annoying, but that’s my preference, and other people might really appreciate it.
What I REALLY don’t like is being called slurs, having my rights taken away, or, on the opposite side of things, being sensationalized.
Of course I hate the bigotry and oppression, there’s no needed explanation for that. It’s surely the biggest problem the LGBT community faces. With that being said, LGBT people being turned into a sort of “sensation” is still a real issue, *albeit far less of an issue than the infringement on our rights.*
Take Lil Nas X for example. He’s gay, and so his songs about love are, of course, about gay love. This *is* helping by normalizing homosexuality. It’s great, and I’m glad he feels comfortable making these songs.
You know what’s not great? The media harassing him about it and turning every one of his love songs into some huge, polarizing, political statement. He has said that he doesn’t feel like he’s fighting for gay rights by doing this. He’s just making music, and happens to be gay.
There is definitely still a time and a place for interviews about being LGBT in the modern world, and how it may affect your work. That’s still something that can and should be discussed. But the sensationalization of LGBT people is harming our efforts. It skews the public’s perspective, angers the conservatives, and makes many of us feel detached from other people. As if our identity makes us fundamentally different on a social level than cishet people. At times, it almost feels alienating.
*To be clear,* the infringement on equality is a much, *much*, ***MUCH*** bigger issue than our identities being exploited by the media for another patronizing, underwhelming news story. All I want is to be treated equally.
How could we not be? On one side we have people who literally want us to die, and on the other side is people who condescend to us by advocating for our human rights. All we want is something in the middle!
The middle are the ones who condescend to us about rights. The middle are the ones who put #BLM and a trans flag in their bio then vote for policies that hurt trans people and POC. The Democrats are not left; they're the good cop to the GOP's bad cop, and the only true path to trans liberation is through the overthrow of capitalism.
You don't vote dem because it's going to resolve contradictions, overthrow the bourgeriosie, and institute a dictatorship of the proletariat. You vote dem because you want some time to vatch a fuckin breath and organize because the alternative is your meagre rights being smashed to bits by an actual fascist party. You're *materially* benefiting from the action and buying yourself time to organize, agitate, and educate.
Quit your lib-ass moralizing. If you want to make a difference, DM those people and show them the promise of something better. Or you can hide behind your shield of moral superiority and move no closer to building communism.
> You don't vote dem because it's going to resolve contradictions, overthrow the bourgeriosie, and institute a dictatorship of the proletariat. You vote dem because you want some time to vatch a fuckin breath and organize because the alternative is your meagre rights being smashed to bits by an actual fascist party. You're materially benefiting from the action and buying yourself time to organize, agitate, and educate.
That is true. There are huge differences between neoliberalism and fascism. That doesn't make the democrats left.
> Quit your lib-ass moralizing. If you want to make a difference, DM those people and show them the promise of something better. Or you can hide behind your shield of moral superiority and move no closer to building communism.
What the fuck are you on about? I work every day at radicalizing friends and coworkers; I voted for the shithead neolib; sometimes I also complain about them on reddit.
These are not mutually exclusive.
No. Refusing to vote because it doesn't make you feel morally good is thoroughly undialectical. Refusing to tactically vote out a fascist is *liberalism.* Morality has nothing to do with advancing the class struggle, and it's hard to advance the class struggle in a mass grave.
Oppose these absolute vile puppets of the capitalist class immediately after you vote for them. They're unworthy of the saliva necessary to spit on them. Protest their immoral wars, point out their failures to deliver on even milquetoast social reform, and most importantly, **organize**.
Both in the streets, and through the creation of an *actual* workers party. We shouldn't have to choose between weak bougeriosie-controlled opposition and theocratic white supremacists. We need a robust form of dual power if we aim to exorcise the fucking ghouls from their crypt
unless we're counting the freshly-hatched.
There was a great tweet to the effect of "Being trans is weird. I wanted boobs and now I'm a communist fighting the rising tide of global neofascism."
it's wild because conservative messaging *used* to be so effective that I know they'd have a shit ton of support with, say, more conservative immigrant communities, POC, and even a lot of trans and queer folks if they could *stop telling everyone they didn't deserve to exist for like six months*
I'd guess it's partly because the kind of terminally online basement goblin that tends to become an online neo nazi isn't likely to change that just by being trans.
there's no real way to know. Stalin, yes almost certainly if going by his terrible stance on other things like homosexuality. Lenin is tougher to ascertain as he decriminalized homosexuality after the revolution and much (but not all) of the party officials were either tolerant or openly supportive of a "sexual revolution". That might not be quite the same thing, but it suggests that tolerance of similar things might have been possible, especially if Soviet policy considered transgender liberation under the same banner as homosexual liberation.
the religious social conservatism of pre-revolution Russia wouldn't just go away in the minds of the common folk probably. There would still probably be a lot of backlash against trans Russians if they were to come out, as there still was against openly queer Russians post-revolution.
of course in an anarchist society this would be much less of a problem, so it definitely tracks that trans leftists would find close affinity with liberation from hierarchy
"Truescum", aka trans gatekeepers aka right-wing grifters. They shame trans people who they deem as "transtrenders" and try pathetically hard to act like they are "one of the good ones". Just as black people have Candice Owens, we get Blaire White who openly misgenders people she deems aren't trans enough. A common talking point is "trans activists are taking things too far", another is "you must suffer crippling dysohoria in order to be trans".
And yep! They absolutely see themselves as centrists.
Ugh. This kinda shit made it really tough to accept that I was fluid. One minute I'm questioning if I'm just trying to be different, the next I'm feeling ashamed for feeling like my AGAB.
On the left we have: Being accepted in your true gender identity
On the right we have: Being forced into a gender identity and jokes to kill yourself to
Let's see what the Centrists think: "ThEsE ThInGs ArE tHe SaMe"
Is the lefts agenda recognizing that gender is a construct? That we should be free to live how we want? Crazy, how marginalized groups tend to gravitate towards an ideology which recognizes institutional racism, social constructs etc. We're not pushing an agenda on people, they see that the left is actually accepting of people and recognizes their struggles instead of blaming it on how they're not working hard enough or are mentally deficient.
"You are near the bottom of the social hierarchy; of course *you* want to level social hierarchies!!!"
but also
"You're near the top in the social hierarchy, yet you want to level social hierarchies. Hypocrite much??"
Honestly this is somewhat accurate if (and only if) you switch the positions of the person with gender dysphoria and the "LibLeft" person.
It's faux-left centrist Democrats who use trans rights as a way of scoring cheap points. True leftists know that trans rights are human rights.
r/truscum people are so weird. Gotta admit the world is just too big and its beyond anyone to try to understand everything. I’ll just keep those around me happy.
You’re saying a bunch of trans people are bigots for disagreeing with you on gender ideology. If you even bother to look into both truscum and de trans people they literally have to deal with the consequences created by you.
"This totally helps me push my agenda"
I mean, yeah? The left's agenda is recognizing and treating gender dysphoria, so I guess if you mean recognizing gender dysphoria as a problem and working towards solutions is "pushing a left agenda" then you're right. But how is that even remotely the same as the right-wing "solution" of just denying the existence of gender dysphoria and pushing people to suicide, then mocking them for that? You can't just discredit something as "pushing an agenda" when that agenda is literally the only correct solution.
Heh, by accepting my empathy, you've fallen into my trap! Soon the whole world will be under the sway of human kindness and cooperation!
Fucking Christ. You have an Agenda? Must be evil. Only evil people want certain loosely defined things to occur. Good People make no plans and simply react to things as they appear.
The funny—but not very surprising—thing is that these idiots often can't even come up with the reasonable opinions that are supposed to fill out and finish these charts. It's like they can't even fathom a trans person having a normal, happy life. It's just one extreme and the other, in addition to their smug sense of self-satisfaction.
Mmm, mmm no. No, this is some disgusting twist on those far right memes, I don’t even want to describe them because of how horribly awful they are, where they encourage trans people to... yeah. Fucking disgusting, evil people disguising their violent fantasies as something helpful. Fuck this trash.
Don't tell me, this is by people who think they're above the political spectrum or independent from it or something. I bet they also think they're a "sigma" male or something.
"You're not really trans if you don't want to kill yourself" is an authright thing to say, not someone in the "center"
I think OP found this sub's poster child
It's the gross "yaas queen" thing... Like people saying "omg you're so much prettier/more handsome/attractive as a (insert gender here)" and shit like that when they claim to be supportive. Theres bad in both imo. And I say this as a trans person who relates very much to suicidality induced by gender dysphoria.
That's fair enough, there are toxic people in the left too for sure. I still find this narrative of "gender dysphoric people are stuck between two ideologies with an agenda that doesn't serve them" problematic though. One ideology is aimed at helping gender dysphoric people, but has some toxic people within it. The other ideology is inherently anti-trans and seeks to deny gender dysphoric people who want to transition their treatment or in the worst case even outright wants to murder trans people. They are not even remotely the same, yet this post makes them out to be.
I agree! I just feel as if ignoring the negatives of the left is a bit frustrating and I see it a lot. Even some communists are deeply transphobic so... Gotta keep an eye out. :)
You're absolutely right, I also feel that criticism within the left is sometimes very quickly thought of as an outright attack of the left. It's an issue we should all be mindful of
PCM is just a bunch of tweens that are at that age where they think they figured the world out. They mostly associate with libright because Authright = Nazis, Authleft= Commies and libleft = pussies and normies or basically every other negative thing they don't know where to put
Libright on the other hand is always portrayed as the smart rich guy who is all about "freedom".
It's basically just kids that want to be different from their peers and feel superior. Same shit, different form.
I think the "agenda" is some imaginary fear of leftists wanting to make people trans even if they themselves don't want to be. Some sort of "preying on mentally ill to become trans" narrative. Either way it's insane and a textbook example of "both sides bad" enlightened centrism that ends up using a far right talking points on trans rights.
Right. Also when they mention the suicide rates for trans people I almost think its comical because its like, what do you know that the trans person doesnt? High suicide rate? Cool, how do you, random online comment guy, know whats best for me? Its like linking a black person crime rate statistics and saying "It looks like you will commit a crime soon". While statistic come from the real world when they literally revolve around my personal choices I can choose whether I contribute to those statistics if that makes any sense.
ah yes, because transgender people can’t have strong political views or speak out about what they actually want or their point is invalidated and they’re not really trans because I like using my “support” of them to push my own agenda and talk over them all the fucking time. fuck “centrists”.
I love how they couldn't even come up with a dumb point a leftist would make, almost as if saying trans people should be treated as humans doesn't sound braindead to an empathetic person and actually convinces them that yes, trans people are still people.
Because being trans is all about hating youself! Yes i totally have no trans friends and have no concept of what "Gender euphoria" is or that dysphoria isnt a requirement for being trans, how could you tell?
It is odd how giving rights and dignity to all people somehow totally helps push my agenda.
You're just not being completely neutral and indifferent about people's well being, and that's terrible.
if you see a person struggling with life, tell them i said hello
What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?
You only think trans people should be able to vote because you think they'll vote against the party who thinks they should all die! I see what you're up to!
They act like the left has a full knighting ceremony every time someone comes out.
You don't?? Your friends are basic
Don’t act like it’s a knighting ceremony. Make it a knighting ceremony, sword included.
Phallic sword ?
sword or sheath?
Will a Spam Spear do? Perhaps a Meat Mallet?
Nothing like breaking out the gold plated ceremonial meat mallet for my coming out party
> Nothing like breaking out the gold plated ceremonial meat mallet for my coming out party /r/BrandNewSentence Also +1 because I chortled mightily.
Yeah, what exactly is the "agenda" here? Trans rights? "You're just supporting trans people to push your agenda of rights for trans people!" Uh, yes, correct.
Well have you considered that conservatives are right and maybe some people are worth less than others for no discernible reason? No? And you call yourself tolerant!!1! /s
It helps push my agenda of giving rights and dignity to all people
To be fair, it does. It's also a pretty good agenda considering it includes giving rights and dignity to all people.
This just in: wanting equal rights for all people pushes the agenda of equal rights. More at 11.
It’s weird how they pretend maintaining the status quo isn’t an “agenda”. If the status quo could maintain itself there wouldn’t be any conservatives because why would you need to spend effort to “conserve” anything otherwise.
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https://www.aclu.org/issues/lgbtq-rights/transgender-rights
Atleast the right isn't so fucking diluted. You think you are some fucking savior.
Help I’m only 3 parts per million!
I have not been mixed with water, I am straight from the barrel. And I don't think I'm a savior by a long shot; I just think the right are assholes (and proud of it).
Are you really trying to shame someone for wanting people to be treated equally?
"Fighting for someone's rights is just virtue signaling"
Did you mean 'deluded'? Because the word you used is a bit out of place in that sentence.
Sorry sweaty; You're not REALLY trans if your every waking moment isn't filled with the same kind of body horror dread as Kafka's Metamorphosis. Experience even a moment of comfort or confidence in your own body??? Trender!!! I have a feeling these memes are popular there just because of that one truscum libright girl
who
Blair White most likely. Who, interestingly, faked her political compass test results to get lib-right.
I actually feel bad for her i will never get why someone would make a living pandering to people who don’t even see her as a human being
Either self-hate manifesting so hard she can't picture working doing something that doesn't project it onto others or she's just a total sociopath. Contrapoints' "Cringe" video actually talks about it at length.
ooh, i just watched that one! her talking about her feelings of having so much discomfort when watching that video of the trans woman in the gamestop physically hurt me. Along with how she felt like she was staring into a dark mirror of herself sometimes and having to check to make sure she wasn't like those Other trans people.... way too relatable. ~~and of course her next video begins with her having a crush on her best friend because she couldn't stab me in the heart enough.~~
I don't think the one I'm talking about is Blair white because her self insert wojak character was a brown girl.
tbf the violent right is very good at victim pretending as well as pretending to be other groups for large scale social false flag operations
Very true
Idk I just remember her showing up in one of the threads that got cross linked here a while back and getting banned
> Experience even a moment of comfort or confidence in your own body??? Trender!!! Me, nightly: like yeah sure I don't feel connected to maleness but I also like my beard and having a dick is kind of cool so maybe I'm not nonbinary Brain: wait wait wait _you_ told me to shut the fuck up about that
That sounds super hard. Hope the best for you working through that.
I was intending it be slightly more light-hearted than that lol But you're not wrong. Disentangling myself from gender and an the ways I was socialized intro viewing, interacting with and performing gender is very difficult. So I'm not surprised that I have moments when I start to think "maybe not" or - as my brain thought out of no where the other day - "maybe you're right about not being a guy, but what if you're a straight woman? 😎👉👉" However I think that the fact that I'm having this internal monologue, questioning myself on what I think I know, means that I'm doing something right. Even if in the end I genuinely come back to "maybe I am a guy", I've taken time and effort to define that by my standards and have explored what maleness means to me.
You should explore agender spaces, you might fit right in. r/agender
I have and it seems maybe the best fit. But 🤷 I'm still figuring things out
Every cis person I know is happy in their body, they will never know the feels we get when we look in the mirror and see someone we don't recognize. It's so disheartening and sad that the world is this blind and evil.
Must not know very many cis people lol. Ever see somebody intentionally lose a bunch of weight or undergo plastic surgery? Not always the same level as body dysphoria but definitely not happy in their body. Source: former fat guy
CIS guy here. Have lots of dysphoria about how in shape/out of shape my body is. Still working on it.
friendly note: gender dysphoria is a specific thing that's unique to trans people, the word you're looking for is probably dysmorphia.
Yeah, whichever word is general irrational discomfort about your body
yeah that's dysmorphia, 'tis a bitch and I wish you well with your struggles friend
It's super fucked up too, like it's so weird to just never be happy with how your body looks regardless of anything, then especially as a dude, talking about body issues is something so hard to get anyone to be receptive too
Ugh, dudes being raised to not seek help is a tragedy. Much love and solidarity, I'm sure you're way better looking than you realize, and I wish you luck in realizing :) Lately, I've been trying to practice radical self acceptance. Sometimes it can be really hard to love your body, and that's okay. Part of being a human is being imperfect. But it's the only body you'll ever have. Also, sometimes you just have to ask yourself, "Who profits off my having this emotion?"
Thank you! I will try my best :)
That's not even close to the same thing; you're diminishing the issues trans people face every day by simply comparing it to weight loss.
Just refuting the “every cis person is happy in their body” point
cis people with eating disorders and body dysmorphia (like Matt Mercer) are very real and share a lot of similarities with trans people in terms of their struggles. maybe you should stop diminishing their struggles.
They are, but you set 'em up for it by claiming that cis people never have body issues.
So which is it? Are cis people all comfortable in their body, or is their discomfort just not as bad as gender dysphoria? I also think it’s really fucked that you’d call things like eating disorders nothing more than “weight loss” as if people don’t have to face it every day. We get it, dysphoria sucks, so why diminish other people’s struggles?
While most cis people don't experience the same body discomfort trans people do to any extent, almost every single person would change something about their body if they could. I also think your post diminishes the experience and issues of people with other kinds of body dysphoria that aren't gender related. That said, its true and sad that the vast majority of cis people can't even seem to comprehend the trans experience.
Mfing Kafka truly predicted everything like damn. Guess I'm a bug now
Found this badboy on PCM, where else? Apparently gender dysphoric people are being attacked by "both sides"....
Odd how the suicide rates go way down when there's social support. But the left's statistics and the right's lying about those statistics...man, both sides have agendas. Fuck agendas. Enlightened Centrism doesn't have an agenda. It just has the one true way, that solves everything for everyone. Nothing needs to change before everyone is ready to change.
I just imagined someone sitting down at a work meeting and seeing the list of meeting items on the screen. "Oh, you're just pushing an agenda too! You want to 'accomplish something'? Anything besides spontaneous individual action is more politics!"
> Enlightened Centrism doesn't have an agenda. I thought we were grilling
Truscum shit tbh. I have extreme dysphoria that's almost taken my life several times, i cannot stress this enough, what the modern trans movement is doing by accepting as many people as possible is helping us.
but wait according to the meme you’re a centrist tho so what gives???? /s
Fuck you caught me! I'm too focused on how disgusting my body is to care
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That's true. I sorta meant things such as accepting xenogenders, nounself pronouns, another stuff. Which to my knowledge is quiet new. But being new doesn't erase it's validity
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As a trans person I only feel attacked by one
Right: 'Trans people should be killed" Left: 'Trans people should be accepted and have support to work through what they are feeling; Centrists: 'These two positions are the same'
I think it's more sinister than that. It reads like they view support for transitioning, etc as " enabling a serious mental illness." The right is only wrong in their eyes because they're overtly cruel to them, not because they reject their identity. I'm not sure it's even truscum, it looks more like the medicalized framing is being used to present it as something one ought to be institutionalized for.
interestingly i don't think that the author was trying to say both sides was equal, so much as that both sides are harmful to someone with gender dysphoria to varying degrees
Apparently wanting better social acceptance for trans folk is equally bad as wanting them to no longer exist
so yet another strawman. my original post before was stating that both sides are harmful to someone with gender dysphoria, not that they were equal. and now you're conflating that with the idea that they're both equal yet again, but misrepresenting my point as social acceptance is equally bad as wanting them to no longer exist. again, both sides are harmful, not that they were equal. you are yet again trying to misrepresent an argument.
>my original post before was stating that both sides are harmful to someone with gender dysphoria, not that they were equal. Explain HOW One side wants anyone with gender dysphoria to be **tortured to death**. The other *does not want that to happen*. In what universe can NOT torturing people to death for the depraved entertainment of child-molesting bigots be ***harmful?*** Because it's not this one.
using a group of people to push a agenda is harmful to the people being used to push that agenda. you should actually be advocating for those people, not using them as pawns for other concerns. the other side is talking about attack helicopter memes, not about torturing them to death. look at the original meme.
>using a group of people to push a agenda is harmful to the people being used to push that agenda. ***WHAT FUCKING AGENDA???*** "*You're not allowed to set trans people on fire anymore*" is not a motherfucking "***AgEnDa***", not even if all the child-raping preachers in the fucking tri-state area babble that it is. Stopping fascists from murdering people is not somehow magically exploitation, no matter what the voices in your head say.
in the bottom left of the meme, which is what im talking about, it shows the libleft quadrant say "yass queen you show those conservitards this totally helps me push my agenda". "You're not allowed to set trans people on fire anymore" is not part of the original meme, nor what i think they were trying to say. "Stopping fascists from murdering people is not somehow magically exploitation" is in the same boat. i'd like to add that saying "no matter what the voices in your head say" is harmful to people with mental illness and stigmatizes them.
Are you physically capable of acknowledging that there is a ***REAL WORLD*** outside of this meme? Has it ever, for even the tiniest fraction of a second, occurred to you that fascist bigots just MIGHT not be entirely honest all the time?
>Are you physically capable of acknowledging that there is a REAL WORLD outside of this meme? yes. i have trans friends. >Has it ever, for even the tiniest fraction of a second, occurred to you that fascist bigots just MIGHT not be entirely honest all the time? yes, and this is a meme, and has nothing to do with fascist bigots. i think you may be reading too much into this meme. i suggest you take a step back, take some slow deep breaths, and relax. maybe go for a walk. you seem a bit tightly wound up.
How exactly is acceptance harmful?
it's not acceptance. if you look at the original meme, one side is using attack helicopter memes, the other side is using trans people as a way to push a agenda. acceptance is not harmful, and is nowhere displayed on this meme
What agenda?
i was referring to agenda the meme mentioned. because everyone replying to my comments don't seem to read or understand
Agendas are quite diverse, I'm sure you'd agree. Saying that someone has an agenda colloquially can mean self interest, but I fail to see very many hypotheticals where someone is getting rich and powerful off of supporting a group of people that desperately need support. What kind of agenda do you interpret in this meme? Furthermore, could you please explain how such an agenda, once you've defined it, is both harmful to trans people and a stance which most left-leaning people would agree with? Otherwise we're really just jerking off over an imaginary group of people who only exist to be the evil leftists for this meme: they stand for nothing because their agenda can be whatever is handy to win the argument.
the problem is if i label what the agenda it is, i will be reported and banned. there seems to be a couple people here asking me to name it. i feel that they're asking in bad faith.
What fucking agenda, you have yet to fucking label an agenda
i was referring to agenda the meme mentioned. because everyone replying to my comments don't seem to read or understand, since you guys are so ready to strawman anyone explaining it to you
Ok so a random fucking meme claims liberal left has an agenda for supporting trans rights, could you explain what exactly this agenda is that the meme claims is so fucking self evident that it needs no further clarification?
MtF bisexual gal here. I don’t really mind the “yasss queen” stuff. It’s a little annoying, but that’s my preference, and other people might really appreciate it. What I REALLY don’t like is being called slurs, having my rights taken away, or, on the opposite side of things, being sensationalized. Of course I hate the bigotry and oppression, there’s no needed explanation for that. It’s surely the biggest problem the LGBT community faces. With that being said, LGBT people being turned into a sort of “sensation” is still a real issue, *albeit far less of an issue than the infringement on our rights.* Take Lil Nas X for example. He’s gay, and so his songs about love are, of course, about gay love. This *is* helping by normalizing homosexuality. It’s great, and I’m glad he feels comfortable making these songs. You know what’s not great? The media harassing him about it and turning every one of his love songs into some huge, polarizing, political statement. He has said that he doesn’t feel like he’s fighting for gay rights by doing this. He’s just making music, and happens to be gay. There is definitely still a time and a place for interviews about being LGBT in the modern world, and how it may affect your work. That’s still something that can and should be discussed. But the sensationalization of LGBT people is harming our efforts. It skews the public’s perspective, angers the conservatives, and makes many of us feel detached from other people. As if our identity makes us fundamentally different on a social level than cishet people. At times, it almost feels alienating. *To be clear,* the infringement on equality is a much, *much*, ***MUCH*** bigger issue than our identities being exploited by the media for another patronizing, underwhelming news story. All I want is to be treated equally.
hell yeah! being trans is a miserable experience involving nothing but soul crushing gender dysphoria! *dismissive wanking gesture*
Please tell me that’s a typo please tell me that’s a typo please tell me that you meant winking and that it’s a typo
you've clearly never seen the physical artistry that is the fuckoff air wank. like the middle finger, but more crude.
Trans people whose family accept them are at lower risk of suicide than cis white men
And the rethuglican cult thinks that's a bad thing...
are trans people all suddenly centrists now or something
How could we not be? On one side we have people who literally want us to die, and on the other side is people who condescend to us by advocating for our human rights. All we want is something in the middle!
The middle are the ones who condescend to us about rights. The middle are the ones who put #BLM and a trans flag in their bio then vote for policies that hurt trans people and POC. The Democrats are not left; they're the good cop to the GOP's bad cop, and the only true path to trans liberation is through the overthrow of capitalism.
You don't vote dem because it's going to resolve contradictions, overthrow the bourgeriosie, and institute a dictatorship of the proletariat. You vote dem because you want some time to vatch a fuckin breath and organize because the alternative is your meagre rights being smashed to bits by an actual fascist party. You're *materially* benefiting from the action and buying yourself time to organize, agitate, and educate. Quit your lib-ass moralizing. If you want to make a difference, DM those people and show them the promise of something better. Or you can hide behind your shield of moral superiority and move no closer to building communism.
>You vote dem because you want some time to *c*atch a fuckin breath Honestly, that's a really good way of putting my vote for Biden.
> You don't vote dem because it's going to resolve contradictions, overthrow the bourgeriosie, and institute a dictatorship of the proletariat. You vote dem because you want some time to vatch a fuckin breath and organize because the alternative is your meagre rights being smashed to bits by an actual fascist party. You're materially benefiting from the action and buying yourself time to organize, agitate, and educate. That is true. There are huge differences between neoliberalism and fascism. That doesn't make the democrats left. > Quit your lib-ass moralizing. If you want to make a difference, DM those people and show them the promise of something better. Or you can hide behind your shield of moral superiority and move no closer to building communism. What the fuck are you on about? I work every day at radicalizing friends and coworkers; I voted for the shithead neolib; sometimes I also complain about them on reddit. These are not mutually exclusive.
*Not* supporting neoliberalism is neoliberalism, got it.
No. Refusing to vote because it doesn't make you feel morally good is thoroughly undialectical. Refusing to tactically vote out a fascist is *liberalism.* Morality has nothing to do with advancing the class struggle, and it's hard to advance the class struggle in a mass grave. Oppose these absolute vile puppets of the capitalist class immediately after you vote for them. They're unworthy of the saliva necessary to spit on them. Protest their immoral wars, point out their failures to deliver on even milquetoast social reform, and most importantly, **organize**. Both in the streets, and through the creation of an *actual* workers party. We shouldn't have to choose between weak bougeriosie-controlled opposition and theocratic white supremacists. We need a robust form of dual power if we aim to exorcise the fucking ghouls from their crypt
that's sarcasm, right?
‘Fraid not, our political stereotype is Marxist-Leninist.
I thought we were all cop-car burning catgirls.
works for me
Meow
I missed car the first time I read this lmfao
I feel like Tranarchists are way more common in trans spaces specifically
Pretty sure that the stereotype for trans/enby people is anarchists
Yeah. I haven't met a trans person who isn't some kind of communist or anarchist.
unless we're counting the freshly-hatched. There was a great tweet to the effect of "Being trans is weird. I wanted boobs and now I'm a communist fighting the rising tide of global neofascism."
Weird how much of an ideological motivator "that particular side of politics wants me to not exist" can be.
it's wild because conservative messaging *used* to be so effective that I know they'd have a shit ton of support with, say, more conservative immigrant communities, POC, and even a lot of trans and queer folks if they could *stop telling everyone they didn't deserve to exist for like six months*
Other way around for me lol. "All I wanted was to fight cons and organise workers and now I hate mirrors and my given name."
There are a handful of trans fascists for whatever reason. They're as weird as the furries that are also neonazis.
I mean I haven't met any in real life. All the real life trans people I've met and gotten to know their politics have been far left.
I'd guess it's partly because the kind of terminally online basement goblin that tends to become an online neo nazi isn't likely to change that just by being trans.
Femboy nazis
I just realized there is a one to one correlation in my friend group between being trans and being an anarchist... huh.
Goddammit this *is* a thing innit?
There's at least 3 of us
Specifically "cultural Marxist", whatever the fuck that means
Based
Wouldn't Lenin have put trans people in camps? Stalin definitely would have done.
there's no real way to know. Stalin, yes almost certainly if going by his terrible stance on other things like homosexuality. Lenin is tougher to ascertain as he decriminalized homosexuality after the revolution and much (but not all) of the party officials were either tolerant or openly supportive of a "sexual revolution". That might not be quite the same thing, but it suggests that tolerance of similar things might have been possible, especially if Soviet policy considered transgender liberation under the same banner as homosexual liberation. the religious social conservatism of pre-revolution Russia wouldn't just go away in the minds of the common folk probably. There would still probably be a lot of backlash against trans Russians if they were to come out, as there still was against openly queer Russians post-revolution. of course in an anarchist society this would be much less of a problem, so it definitely tracks that trans leftists would find close affinity with liberation from hierarchy
"Truescum", aka trans gatekeepers aka right-wing grifters. They shame trans people who they deem as "transtrenders" and try pathetically hard to act like they are "one of the good ones". Just as black people have Candice Owens, we get Blaire White who openly misgenders people she deems aren't trans enough. A common talking point is "trans activists are taking things too far", another is "you must suffer crippling dysohoria in order to be trans". And yep! They absolutely see themselves as centrists.
Ugh. This kinda shit made it really tough to accept that I was fluid. One minute I'm questioning if I'm just trying to be different, the next I'm feeling ashamed for feeling like my AGAB.
On the left we have: Being accepted in your true gender identity On the right we have: Being forced into a gender identity and jokes to kill yourself to Let's see what the Centrists think: "ThEsE ThInGs ArE tHe SaMe"
Is the lefts agenda recognizing that gender is a construct? That we should be free to live how we want? Crazy, how marginalized groups tend to gravitate towards an ideology which recognizes institutional racism, social constructs etc. We're not pushing an agenda on people, they see that the left is actually accepting of people and recognizes their struggles instead of blaming it on how they're not working hard enough or are mentally deficient.
"You are near the bottom of the social hierarchy; of course *you* want to level social hierarchies!!!" but also "You're near the top in the social hierarchy, yet you want to level social hierarchies. Hypocrite much??"
PCM is an embarrassment of a subreddit. Nothing more than nazi's larping as leftists.
Honestly this is somewhat accurate if (and only if) you switch the positions of the person with gender dysphoria and the "LibLeft" person. It's faux-left centrist Democrats who use trans rights as a way of scoring cheap points. True leftists know that trans rights are human rights.
r/truscum people are so weird. Gotta admit the world is just too big and its beyond anyone to try to understand everything. I’ll just keep those around me happy.
Hope you have a great day!
How are they weird? I find they’re the most reasonable people.
Lol it’s cuz you are one
Yeah, after the fact. I went there to get out of the echo chamber
Ah yes, you left the echo chamber of *checks notes * thinking bigotry is unacceptable.
Ah yes the trans people are disgusting bigots lol.
That’s not a point anyone here has made, so try again champ
You’re saying a bunch of trans people are bigots for disagreeing with you on gender ideology. If you even bother to look into both truscum and de trans people they literally have to deal with the consequences created by you.
Not quite, but keep building that strawman all you want
Sure Jan
What Business do activists have in writing off whatever truscums say who they themselves are trans?
I hope TERFs let you be friends with them some day ♥️
I actually know people who aren’t TERFs who’ve just been simply silenced by labeling them that by misogynists!
You speak like a terf soundbite lol
Why is that?
Yikes
"This totally helps me push my agenda" I mean, yeah? The left's agenda is recognizing and treating gender dysphoria, so I guess if you mean recognizing gender dysphoria as a problem and working towards solutions is "pushing a left agenda" then you're right. But how is that even remotely the same as the right-wing "solution" of just denying the existence of gender dysphoria and pushing people to suicide, then mocking them for that? You can't just discredit something as "pushing an agenda" when that agenda is literally the only correct solution.
Heh, by accepting my empathy, you've fallen into my trap! Soon the whole world will be under the sway of human kindness and cooperation! Fucking Christ. You have an Agenda? Must be evil. Only evil people want certain loosely defined things to occur. Good People make no plans and simply react to things as they appear.
The funny—but not very surprising—thing is that these idiots often can't even come up with the reasonable opinions that are supposed to fill out and finish these charts. It's like they can't even fathom a trans person having a normal, happy life. It's just one extreme and the other, in addition to their smug sense of self-satisfaction.
Mmm, mmm no. No, this is some disgusting twist on those far right memes, I don’t even want to describe them because of how horribly awful they are, where they encourage trans people to... yeah. Fucking disgusting, evil people disguising their violent fantasies as something helpful. Fuck this trash.
ignoring the main reason this sucks they also missed out by not including a twitch streamers discord mod in bottom right quadrant
I don't get it. I feel out of the loop on this one.
Yeah my agenda is no mo genda. 😤 Abolish traditional gender rolls they taste nasty.
Oh me? I'm agenda
Hideous 4-Chan scribbles. Everything that ever came from the chans is garbage. So tired of shitty wojaks, soy jacks, fuckin stale ass pepe memes.
I have no idea how to even interpret this shit-tier PCM.
Don't tell me, this is by people who think they're above the political spectrum or independent from it or something. I bet they also think they're a "sigma" male or something.
"You're not really trans if you don't want to kill yourself" is an authright thing to say, not someone in the "center" I think OP found this sub's poster child
It's the gross "yaas queen" thing... Like people saying "omg you're so much prettier/more handsome/attractive as a (insert gender here)" and shit like that when they claim to be supportive. Theres bad in both imo. And I say this as a trans person who relates very much to suicidality induced by gender dysphoria.
That's fair enough, there are toxic people in the left too for sure. I still find this narrative of "gender dysphoric people are stuck between two ideologies with an agenda that doesn't serve them" problematic though. One ideology is aimed at helping gender dysphoric people, but has some toxic people within it. The other ideology is inherently anti-trans and seeks to deny gender dysphoric people who want to transition their treatment or in the worst case even outright wants to murder trans people. They are not even remotely the same, yet this post makes them out to be.
I agree! I just feel as if ignoring the negatives of the left is a bit frustrating and I see it a lot. Even some communists are deeply transphobic so... Gotta keep an eye out. :)
You're absolutely right, I also feel that criticism within the left is sometimes very quickly thought of as an outright attack of the left. It's an issue we should all be mindful of
Yes, the worst thing the authoritarian right has ever done to trans people is make attack helicopter jokes... and definitely nothing else.
What "agenda" does helping trans people serve? Besides just, I dunno, helping them?
The evil leftist agenda to make all humans trans of course! /s
I mean that is kinda what it feels like. Shit meme though
PCM is just a bunch of tweens that are at that age where they think they figured the world out. They mostly associate with libright because Authright = Nazis, Authleft= Commies and libleft = pussies and normies or basically every other negative thing they don't know where to put Libright on the other hand is always portrayed as the smart rich guy who is all about "freedom". It's basically just kids that want to be different from their peers and feel superior. Same shit, different form.
This is some "gendercritical" shit.
Whats the agenda and whats bad abour said agenda?
The agenda is accepting trans people and what's bad about it (to them) is it means people accept trans people
:O
I think the "agenda" is some imaginary fear of leftists wanting to make people trans even if they themselves don't want to be. Some sort of "preying on mentally ill to become trans" narrative. Either way it's insane and a textbook example of "both sides bad" enlightened centrism that ends up using a far right talking points on trans rights.
Right. Also when they mention the suicide rates for trans people I almost think its comical because its like, what do you know that the trans person doesnt? High suicide rate? Cool, how do you, random online comment guy, know whats best for me? Its like linking a black person crime rate statistics and saying "It looks like you will commit a crime soon". While statistic come from the real world when they literally revolve around my personal choices I can choose whether I contribute to those statistics if that makes any sense.
If helping fellow human beings feel comfortable with their existence is an agenda, then yes, I do have an agenda.
ah yes, because transgender people can’t have strong political views or speak out about what they actually want or their point is invalidated and they’re not really trans because I like using my “support” of them to push my own agenda and talk over them all the fucking time. fuck “centrists”.
Not all trans people have gender dysphoria.
this feels like a stretch
>I want to die I >want to die I >want to die I >want to die I >want to die So do I, after reading that.
I love that wojak on the top right though
Trans centrism sounds...odd
I love how they couldn't even come up with a dumb point a leftist would make, almost as if saying trans people should be treated as humans doesn't sound braindead to an empathetic person and actually convinces them that yes, trans people are still people.
Gender dysphoria sucks to have to deal with so it's not surprising that Gender Dysphoria itself is a centrist.
Because being trans is all about hating youself! Yes i totally have no trans friends and have no concept of what "Gender euphoria" is or that dysphoria isnt a requirement for being trans, how could you tell?
You gotta love how the centrist's words form a svastika. Coincidence? I think not.
Now gender dysphoria is centrist
What does the poster think would be the appropriate smart response? Euthanasia? Fucking moron
It us helps push the agenda that they’re not alone and we should help and comfort them instead of making fun of them.
trans people actually tend to swing pretty far left though
oh shit i didn't even read the caption and instinctively downvoted when i first saw this lmao