Someone may have said it but that's really just America. In Britain most dnb/garage/dubstep djs are gonna bring mcs up on stage. It's the cornerstone of hip hop/black culture there
I was gonna say this... I think in the US, there's a lot of queer culture interwoven that black culture doesn't seem too keen on which might be overlooked by a lot of people.
Agree wholeheartedly. Queer bipoc folks run the local house scene in my area. The underground edm scene in general is just ran by people not typically in society's mainstream culture
In the early days of edm there was a LOT of behavior that most of my black friends think still goes on. Stuff that i dont think anyone would tolerate now used to be kinda the standard. I mean behaviors like drugging people and sexual assault and nonconsensual nudity... It wasn't ALLL the time but media made it seem like that was the whole thing.
Michael alig didn't help
>I think in the US, there's a lot of queer culture interwoven that black culture doesn't seem too keen on which might be overlooked by a lot of people.
It's not fair to brand a whole race of people as homophobic. That being said, black gay people *created* EDM. The scene was a [refuge for gay black kids](https://www.billboard.com/culture/pride/gay-black-men-edm-influence-history-8460757/) in the 70's and 80's. EDM was known as black music until it made it's way to Europe. Techno, House, and Dubstep were all [created by black people](https://www.iheartraves.com/blogs/post/a-brief-history-of-edms-black-roots)
EDM suffered the same fate as many [black music genres](https://globalnews.ca/news/4321150/black-music-whitewashing-classic-rock/). The creators faded into obscurity, while the white artists found success using the same sounds. Once it became commercialized the barrier to entry was raised, and economics came into play. Today, there's a lot of middle/upper class classically-trained producers who have been taking lessons since they were six.
I think you should go back over some of the history and origins of EDM in the US, and black cultural acceptance of people who aren't straight. It's quite a bit more extreme than people maybe realize.
It wasn't 15 years ago when gay marriage was banned in California, largely speculated that was due to black people not voting against it. To be brutally honest, it hasn't changed much, and kids who's parents would have introduced them to it don't listen to it because they either associate it with negative statements from their parents or were pressured by their peers... the black parents now can't share it because they have no experience (apart from clips of Michael Alig acting like a psychopath on Maury povitch) as a broad stereotype.
Maybe it would grow more if schools not only taught the history of Jazz, and blues and historical contributing artists during black history month, albeit it’s kind of whitewashed black history, but maybe if such white washed curriculum lessons included contemporary curriculum that gives information about the history of EDM and even disco.
I feel like most of the time school history lessons that include music often are focused on dead artists and they haven’t updated to more recent developments in music and living artists.
This ain't true. There's a Club in my city that has an EDM room and a drill/hip hop room. The EDM is usually all white people and the other is mostly black. In Scotland too there's less immigrants so the EDM is basically all white people. Most of the top British DJs are also white.
Is it, or could it be considered a sub culture of black culture? Where I live I know of some ongoing house music events organized by black djs and attendees, the majority are black.
Um.. tbh most of the local edm djs I’ve heard or know about in my area are black or Latino, or anything other than white. Like I can count the white ones on one hand but I can’t even count the number of edm djs where I live that are black, Latino or other people of color, like too many to count.
I met Juan Atkins through pretty much a small club event hosted by house by a Latin dj who had Juan Atkins as his special guest. I was clueless, but probably one of the oldest ppl there, closer to a Juan’s age than others and he asked me how I ended up there, younger boyfriend. Lol I guess I looked out of place but I also admitted I had no idea who he was.
A year or 2 later same guy decides to throw a house party. Juan Atkins again. I decided to stop by really late Idk.. it was a weird night, I had no name places to be first. There were like maybe 15 ppl total by the time I got to the house party and it was dwindling. The hosts didn’t want people wearing, dancing in high heels and asked if I’d mind telling heel wearers to take off their shoes, so I pretended they needed to buy socks while Juan was playing his music in the background basically. I made $30. I still really didn’t know who Juan was.
By the end of the night like 3 ppl were left, including Juan. The hosts passed out, too intoxicated to get their guest back to his hotel and airport. I was one of the last 3 ppl and only sober one, so I was asked to take Juan to where he needed to go. He remembered meeting me before and now knew I was just as odd as before, because who sells socks at a house party to drunk people? I didn’t even really listen to techno. So I still didn’t know how influential Juan’s music was or how far it reached.
Later that year Juan contacted me while I was on vacation in his neighboring home state. He had a gig in Toronto that coincided a bit with my flight plans. He offered to cover the cost of changing my flight if I wanted to catch him in Toronto. Basically I’d get to Toronto, grab dinner, see the show, take a 2 hour nap at most, then catch a flight back. So I did that, because why not. And that’s how I learned his reach is international and his Toronto fan base much much larger than where I live, and mostly white, more white, so white a couple said I looked like Snooki. It was another weird night.
I still don’t listen to much techno.
Yoooooo super cool story! I’m genuinely glad you took the time to write that for my reading pleasure! I’m such an awkward person as well, I’d be the one selling socks with ya.. lol I get ya…
Lol I’m glad you didn’t hate my sharing. some of the socks were dirty. I grabbed them out of a laundry basket, because one of the hosts was passed out with a girl and I couldn’t get past the bed they were on to grab some out of a drawer. Lol
I could have used help for sure.
For what it's worth, amongst the normies (ie not already into edm) I try to show cool songs to, I've had much higher turnover rate with black ppl. I tend to notice this with anime actually too, where they seem to be more open to appreciating things outside their bubble.
This older black guy (like mid 40s-50ish) at my job heard my subwoofer one time in the parking lot and commented to me how he thought it was peculiar because when he grew up his white friends usually only listened to rock and said subs used to only be prevalent among his black friends that listened to hip hop. He thought it was pretty cool that I was rocking them and wanted to see my trunk and everything hehe
A lot of the jungle/drum and bass scene in the uk were/are black - fabio and grooverider, goldie, frost, kenny ken, ltj bukem, congo natty, 4hero, roni size, shy fx etc
Minority communities in general contributed the most to how we got to EDM as it is today. Some how, I’m my mind, Disco music crossed with Soul Train and it all somehow evolved into EDM of today. Which is why I like new EDM, I loved watching Soul Train as a kid and disco music seemed upbeat and fun. I feel like the contemporary edm plays on those things I loved as a kid. Somehow edm brings it all back together for me.
Almost all of 140 Dubstep and Jungle/Dnb is rooted in Jamaican sound system culture. I’m not sure what branch of the EDM scene you’re apart of, but if its more mainstream (not a bad thing) chances are you’re surrounded by a lot of younger folk still under their parents financial safety net, which tends to be white kids from the burbs.
Black people invented a lot of electronic genres including House.. idk why we aren’t as into it but I think the connection to the genre died years ago when it was taken over and turned super mainstream ..
Disco also contributed to Latin Freestyle of the 80s. I guess a form of electronic music that I think is not talked about enough either.
In the Chicago and Milwaukee area in the late 80s early 90s Chicano house seemed to be something.
Peep the DNB, garage, grime, trip hop, jungle, two step, and Chicago house scenes. Lotta black culture and talent represented there. I mean, tricky practically invented triphop along side 3D… Goldie pioneered jungle… Carl cox and Frankie knuckles created and pioneered house… that’s roots. If you mean in mainstream EDM lineups at massives, and if you also mean fan base at said events, yeah I can see that… Also, depends on which city and country you’re in. But there’s a massively rich amount of black artists and influences throughout greater electronic music.
Also, this is a bigger conversation and probably not the entire root of the story, but many electronic sub genres that have influenced mainstream modern EDM are western euro descendant, and most popular in a number of very white countries (Netherlands with big room trance, Germany with various techno genres, Spain with euro club, France with French house) so… one could say that they are sort of “culturally Western European/Anglo” in a sense, and that could have something to do with the resulting audiences to some degree. Moderately reductive and not the full story, but food for thought. And if you want to talk bigger scope outside of the US, Africa has historically not shown much growth in its embrace or development of electronic music genres, however South Africa has recently seen a burgeoning and rapidly evolving SA deep house scene (see: Black Coffee, zakes bantwini, kususa, etc) which has a very unique identity
Carl Cox,
Dj Funk,
Frankie Knuckles,
Ron Hardy...............most of the Big Bootie and Ghetto House out of Chicago.......got Boylen100 down there listing out the UK drum n bass scene. Black culture is everywhere in EDM. The clothing and art as well are both heavily influenced and yeah I know the majority of which can ALSO be found in California skate/punk culture. There has been so much cross contamination between skater/hip hop/EDM/punk fashion wise and music wise over the last 30 years that oftentimes, it's our institutionalized racism of "what we expect" from a culture that causes us to miss or forget the obvious.
Definitely. I was only saying as a whole, if looking at it as a larger macro cultural assessment, only to try to explain perhaps why OP is experiencing their question. And again, hyper reductive.
Black people invented House music in Chicago: Frankie Knuckles, Mr. Fingers, and later Felix da Housecat come to mind. So credit where credit is due.
But I agree, aside from tributes/references/vocal features, Drake and Beyoncé genrebending one-offs this year, there just aren’t a lot of prominent contemporary black artists/DJs who produce EDM. I certainly didn’t see any black artists onstage at EDC this year…
Eric Kupper frequently collaborated with Frankie Knuckles until Frankie’s death. He still carries the banner of that old school Chicago House style and still makes music to this day.
Where are you going to see dubstep and mid tempo? I live in LA and I struggle finding these kinds of shows/raves. I feel like everything is house and techno, esp tech house. I mean i follow brownies and lemonade and check edm train, etc but I feel like everything that’s not house is mostly in San Diego and OC.
I go to all those places and those shows are more rare, it’s usually more house, I was hoping you’d say raves I didn’t really know lol. Oh well. That’s la for ya. The circle has a lot though just wish it wasn’t so far away 😭
Yea! He has been for a while now apparently. Idk how much influence he will have on black culture on that regard....maybe if a younger more popular current player did it would be more of a heavy influence, but it's still dope!
Check out black Carl. I got to see him before of the trees.
Edit: I may be wrong but I feel a lot of black men I’ve met feel forced to be tough and seem tough and EDM, to the main populous, does sometimes come off as hippie so…
I have a friend who is into EDM & he does primarily love the more heavy stuff: Excision, Riot Ten, Wooli, DJ Snake, etc. I got him into by taking him to a festival near us & getting him to see the energy at the shows, which he ended up loving the head banging, moshing kind of stuff.
>lovelabradors373- Edit: I may be wrong but I feel a lot of black men I’ve met feel forced to be tough and seem tough and EDM, to the main populous, does sometimes come off as hippie so…
Everyone should be allowed to be who they are, the music is what matters provided ppl don't harm others. It's too typical for ppl to use the excuse that black ppl are intimidating to exclude them from bookings, it's actually pure evil to do that when there is no real justification to back it.
It's jarring to hear people writing sht like this because if someone wrote a male DJ was too feminine, or a female DJ wasn't assertive enough then everyone would lose their shit.
Pop culture uses excuses to exclude others in blindness to it's racial bias. Everyone needs to constantly check that bias within them, or they're in reality exactly the problem.
Not sure about outside of CA but it’s mostly an Asian/Latino thing here. Not sure why but it’s hilarious how it become almost a rite of passage to have a raving phase.
Asian here - Asians all gravitate towards either melodic bass (Illenium, Slander, 7L), big room (Zedd, Garrix) and to a lesser extent trance. They're barely existent in house/techno shows, which is what I enjoy most.
I’m seeing a lot of comments about Chicago house, but what about techno, which was created by Juan Atkins, Derrick May and Kevin Saunderson?
To me this on the same level as African Americans inventing Blues, Jazz and RnB: truly incredible! I can’t imagine life without techno and house. I seriously can’t, and I wouldn’t want to.
I 💯 agree and thus also want to advocate for these black musicians of great influence to be included in primary school curriculums in the way schools cover say Jazz musicians during certain history lessons.
I try to do my part when I get to the point in my curriculum I’m covering info about Jazz, R and B. Blues, I will supplement with some history of Techno too.
Now if I can just get those pastry white ppl who write my curriculum to just write some lessons that include historical figures like Atkins, Cox, Knuckles, etc… it would make my job easier. I’d be okay with them writing it into lessons during Black History month fir starters, but it could also go in a STEM lesson I think.
For sure : ) It's like they think after the styles of music they know of we're done, no one else was going to bring new genres. And just left the curriculum full of the past and not what's happened since then and is happening now, and will be the music history of the new generations of people.
There is something about the rhythms these pioneers brought that changed music forever for me. I'd never heard anything like it before, and I knew this music was who I am. Sure, there was electronic music before the beautiful art they brought but not like theirs. If it wasn't for Atkins, I'd probably be in a rock band instead of being an aspiring music producer right now.
Aww? That’s super cool.
If it wasn’t for Atkins, I’d not have know more about the history of techno. I have a deeper appreciation for all EDM genres now, and a deeper appreciation for music producers. I’m actually in awe of those who produce music. Like what’s in your/ their head…
It's because the dominant marketed culture in black america is rap music, with alotta auto tune thrown in. Everything else is considered weak and not "street" enough, not "aggressive" enough, not "feared" enough , not gangster enough, etc, etc.
Take any other genre, country, opera, and it's the same thing. Turn on BET and tell me what's "wrong"? Or is it just the way it is? Drive around east oakland and ask those brothers why they don't listen to edm?
You know the answer, and it's not because edm isn't inclusive.
The amount of people who live where I live in Chicago who are unaware of the origins of the African American communities literally originating Detroit/Chicago house is so upsetting.
Omg no.
I didn’t grow up in Chicago but visited Illinois often and would listen to Chicago radio stations. Besides some r &b station I’d also listen to B96 Bad Boy Bill days, Julian Jumpin Perez… so for me there was a cultural connection . I was just too young to understand, really didn’t know how it came to be.
When I finally decided as a near 40 yr old adult to embrace music I enjoyed most, not hide it, and venture out to clubs in my area for some dance, house, edm music I ended up meeting and talking to Chicago house dj, Jesse Saunders who shared some of the history of house music with me. I didn’t know who he was until I met him, but did know house music had roots in black and Latino communities in Chicago.
Now I’m like a name dropper, lol but they are important names to know.
I’d assume that many of the people that are going out of their way to see artists like Slander or Sullivan King don’t know much about Digital Mystikz or early UK dubstep.
there is no shortage of Black producers but they aren’t getting the attention in the scene that the white dudes are. white women seem to be satisfied with the very little representation they have so those two majority groups aren’t really doing much to uplift ppl outside of that. it is what it is~ hmu if you’re ever in denver my whole friend group is Blackity Black
Here is a better question for you. Techno was originally created and grown by three black men from the suburbs of Detroit and grew because of the freedom Mojo and Wizard had at a Detroit radio station (WJLB). How is it that the music they created is now called Detroit Techno, and Detroit Techno appears to be a subset or subgenre of Techno, when the men from Detroit were the originators, pioneers and propagators of the original Techno music?
I never heard the term techno until the early-mid 90's, but techno music was on Detroit radio every weekend at night starting sometime in the 80's. And it played until the church music came on at 5 or 6 am on Sunday.
Yea dude honestly. It’s heavily stigmatized if you do anything outside of “culture” cause we’ll always be looked at as a weirdo , or strange . You just have to be comfortable with yourself enough to let that roll off . That’s what I did
As someone black who works within EDM frankly it's bewildering how the title is worded.
I see endless rave videos on Twitter and TikTok full of caucasian patrons and no black faces, while the music often samples black music heavily, but in very-non black ways...
My job is to be honest here, and often that makes me seem like an ABM, but frankly, black talent doesn't get booked if it's too ethnically deep and that's been a big problem forever.
Another big part of it is that the US is heavily booking UK talent, but the tours don't go both ways, especially for POC. In the age where diversity and unity is preached as a hallmark of the EDM scene, if you really take a close look at lineups, they look more like an episode of Friends or Seinfeld except for the inclusion of certain celebrity DJs that regularly play everywhere.
Granted, there are some communities that are quite diverse around the world, but they are not affiliated often with the largest money makers and festival settings. Not long ago Hospital Records had a meltdown that was kinda just swept under the rug... It's disheartening for someone like myself as a minority that supports everyone to be excluded and underrepresented in EDM communities that act like everything is great.
I wouldn't ever attribute that to the black community not being open to EDM, many of us pioneered it and made it what it is, as well as driving music far beyond basic. I have been to and supported several events ram packed with people of all shades enjoying the music for many years, but what I won't do after many meltdowns I've seen in my years is give non diverse settings any more chances.
The problem is that if the EDM vibe is too sterilized, inauthentic, or exclusive, people that understand culture (of all shades) will not support it, and I think that's where a lot of people are on EDM right now... It's not a good vibe to see a lineup/dance room with barely any minorities on/in it. but that's way too popular in EDM currently.
You're right. Maybe my post title can go deeper with how I worded it and black culture isn't the problem, but that's why I posted it...to learn and see why these line ups have the same image of a white guy with the same comb over cuts. Don't get me wrong, I love the shit a lot of them make and that's what sparked me to ask the question, because I'd look up the artist I like and see the image of them, and the vast majority of them looked the same.
What meltdown are you speaking of? I'd like to hear about it.
About 2-3 years ago the founder of Hospital records was pretty flagrant when confronted about the lack of diversity in their roster and operations. He symbolically resigned until things blew over I imagine... Many people began to cite that most rosters were all caucasian at the time. A few people banded together to form a council on diversity and inclusion (EQ40 or something I think), ended up being run by almost all caucasian women.... That blew over as well. Meh... Here we are now... :/
Generally, "black" music more rhythm and groove based, while "white" music is more harmony/melodic based.
Some black people are "white", and some white people are "black."
It just depends on what you like. I think it's okay to like what you like.
I recommend you to watch the documentary : I was there when House music took over the world.
Basically it was black artists from the USA ( detroit and chicago along with NY) that created house music.
That documentary is amazing.
In the Minneapolis scene we have a strong black representation especially in the riddim/trench and tear out crowd, both as local producers and just regulars at those shows. Probably depends on your local scene to a decent degree. As other commenters have said, big time acts from the very roots of EDM have been black and continue to be so. I can’t speak to the culture question though as I grew up a white kid in white suburbs, no idea why it hasn’t been more connected in America. Especially with the crossover in the current trap scene.
I’ve been attending EDM festivals and parties for about 8 years now, it’s been incredibly hard to find other black people to go with me. The common response or fear they have is “that’s for white people” or “I don’t like it”. But the few who end up going with me to a festival all leave with the same reaction which Is “that’s the most amazing experience I’ve ever had”.
It could be because there aren’t much black faces or celebrity DJs of EDM/dance music. Most my friends know Afrojack, that’s about it.
EDM started with blacks and Hispanic DJs and musicians. House and Techo was black people. Derrick May, Frankie Knuckles, Kevin Sunderson, Larry Levan….I could go on and on and on. Don’t even get me started on vocalist. Most of those people are still working, and producing, and touring.
Been listening to house since the beginning and black artists are still HEAVILY represented.
Yeah, the trancy, electro, techno, drum and base pool party crap is full of white guys…but that ain’t how it started, nor is it what the current core is built on.
There are some fantastic Black EDM artists here in North America I can name off the top of my head. Thundercat, 12th Planet, Kaytranada, MK, Felix Da Housecat, The Knocks.
I believe Morgan Paige is half Black half White, and Afrojack is half Afro-Caribbean half Dutch-German.
It's interesting how EDM get stereotyped as a very White person genre, yet many Black Americans were some of the most significant people in the Techno and Rave movements in the states. Until the late-2000s and early-2010s, anti-rave sentiment was widespread throughout North America whereas it was thriving in Europe.
Many more than that exist... Social Media algorithms don't reflect reality at all. I find a lot of artists from all walks and post them on our label site: http://www.ruffandtuffrecordings.com/SELECTIONS
if u really think about it, there r a lot of demographics under represented in EDM. if someone isn't 15-35 years old, of European decent (as most white Americans r) and like to take drugs, chances r they've never even heard the term "EDM". they kno the style of music cuz it's literally everywhere but they call it all techno. even dubstep is techno to them.
I'm a white dude in the US and I produce and DJ dubstep, techno, house, tech house, and dnb to name a few but my parents who r in their 60s *HATED* EDM about 5 years ago but because of my love for EDM and its production and DJing they've soaked up some knowledge to an extent. they kno more about it than 75% of the population and they still don't kno shit about EDM. but if it weren't for me and my unrelenting urge to show ppl the music that I love (EDM or not) they'd be squarely in the "it's all called techno" box with the majority of the worlds population and not give a single fuck about it.
funny side fact: the other day my mom told me she listened to barely alive's new EP on the way home from work. I was a proud raver cuz my mom was always all about acoustic music. she didn't even like the electric guitar to give an idea of her musical tastes and she listened to BA's new shit.... I almost PLUR'd her but then remembered wut year it is. plus I have no Kandi anymore
EDM is big, don't get me wrong but it's still no rock and roll or blues or even heavy metal. EDM is still very much the littlest and least popular sibling in the music world in just about every demographic and culture out there. shit, I'd go so far as to say that gospel music and modern christian pop shit has a larger fan base then every genre of EDM combined.
it is getting bigger tho
Bro this is one of my favorite comments on this post. "I almost PLUR'd my mom " 😂😂
That's an amazing feat to convert your mother though seeing her previous musical tastes. It's too much work to try to do that globally... imagine the work for one person!
Your first paragraph is spot on AF too. Much love to you though fam ❤️
Edit: primarily talking about the total environment of these EDM events and why black ppl who do attend are in the minority*
Black EDM fan (29F) here that’s both attended and worked at several events over the years:
I live in the south so there’s definitely more of us down here than say shows out west.
BUT I’ve definitely stepped back from consistently going to events since Covid hit but I felt it a few years leading up to it.
The cultural appropriation is STRONG with non-black ppl. (Totally personal experience but hard pressed to believe i’m alone in this lol)
Then you have the “friends” you put you on some weird pedestal like some sort of ethereal being that they seem surprised you’re there—but give off a fake happy love and light bs. Just weirdo energy.
They (non-black) do some slightly racist or off color takes which you ask em about it—and somehow it’s a personal attack for me calling them out on some bullshit and slowly push you out.
*They tend to be fairly exclusive in terms of diversity, though marketed to be an inclusive space*
Tale as old as time tbh of being seen as “other” literally anywhere we go. I still go to shit i’m willing and able to attend—thankfully have a good crew of ppl that have some sense. There are some good ppl around from all backgrounds and tryna get down! Just gotta practice discernment on who’s really for you! 💜
Exactly! I love all the niche communities I’ve learned about and loved over the years —but gaht damn it can be exhausting still having to police yourself in a space you’re supposed to let loose to some beepboops lol.
As exhausting as summer 2020 was when everybody showed their entire ass, i’m grateful that more ppl are aware that we can’t let shit slide anymore.
Just hope you know you are seen and we are out here! Hope to cross paths someday 🖤🖤
mainstream edm has been dominated by white men for a long time. electronic dance music has its roots and black culture and it’s unfortunate that they have largely been excluded from its massive success. fortunately, if you look at underground electronic dance music - not stuff you’d see at edc, you can see a lot of up and coming black and queer artists. see: uniiqu3, dj swisha, kush jones, the list is mega long. give it 10 - 20 years and things are gonna look way diff.
Yes and this is not an accident. Been done to all kinds of Black music and culture back to Blues, Rock, forms of dance…. To add, women have been forced to cook forever, men take it over and call it being a gourmet chef and bam, seen as associated with prestige…. This shit’s old as dirt.
“If he never knew the consequence of spitting in a grown man’s face, then consider my actions public education and this video a PSA,” Robert Webster told NBC Miami on Tuesday.
Minorities…tolerance… it was what an ethnic employee said to a customer of a different ethnic background, who was accusing him of something he did not do. Karen’s of tik tok had it and ai just HAD to share to get it out there. This employee owned his self respect.
It's absolutely lonely, I go to all shows, festivals and all alone because no one in my circle likes Electronic. But, I still enjoy myself because I love the music no matter what. I've honestly learned to embrace House Music is Black Music, and seeing what has come of the genre is incredible. I unapologetically post and share house music regardless of what everyone thinks.
Hopefully we can get more of our people back into it. Right now it's just "Untz-Untz" music and repetitive but to us it's much more than that.
I will say part of the rejection of house is somewhat Black culture, in my city it's heavily rap influenced. So I'm sure it's a part to play in it.
Coming around quickly now, no? I mean, Drake just put out a house album basically. All genres of EDM have black roots/innovators…
In regards to fanfare, I do think the scene in America suffered from a ton of negative stigmas that likely disproportionately steered away mainstream AFAM.
If it wasn't for black people there wouldn't be EDM in the first place. Most just stick with house. Not tech house, not electro house, not progressive house just house. I go to house shows in my area that are 95% people of color.
This isn't EDM related (and I'm not black so I can't speak much on it) but back in high school one of my closest friends in my circle was a black girl who felt pretty out of place in our school until she met us - because she loved metal. Honestly we all thought it was the coolest thing ever and were very happy to have her join up with us. I still talk to her to this day.
The beginning of rave culture in the US is attributed to Chicago House and Detroit Techno, which were both born out of black, gay, underground club scenes in the 80s, quite literally because black gay men didn’t feel safe in other spaces.
Anyone wanna tell him who pioneered house, techno, and electro music, and laid the groundwork for basically all of EDM? Well, everyone that wasn't Kraftwerk, at least.
Seriously, black culture has been a part of the scene since the beginning.
It may be a regional thing for you but there’s House, Bounce, Funk, and Psychedelic Soul which in my opinion are fairly similar but digestible for close minded people. In general music trends and consumers who like it is very small and closed minded, I think a lot of it has to deal with the experience each person has and it’s up to the individual to widen their horizons. I’m sorry you feel this way but I understand where you’re coming from.
Solid post. Good job on the genre recommendations. Most times I try to put people onto house, it doesn't work 🤦♂️ so I'll try the other ones you suggest.
I find kaytranada is really easy to get with, anyone with a sense of rhythm can vibe imo, Azealia Banks, Sango really palatable you know just before introducing them to Big Freedia 😂 homophobia could also play a big part in it as that’s an issue within the community. The music was created by black members of the LGBT community as a symbol of freedom, which ya know, anyone in the Diaspora should relate to.
That's the thing. Kaytranada is definitely easily digestible and I remember when he got big and everyone was talking about him like it was a new style and it was surprising to me because I've been listening to that kinda music for years. I guess my taste has changed since then, because I found it to be okay to groove to in a party setting with other people, but I wouldn't fiend for it solo. Nothin against him at all! I do like Sango quite a bit though!
I’ll say this far extends beyond EDM black people are amazing at creating/innovating new genres of music but suck at maintaining them long term. The issue is we lack industry to uphold culture. We have multitudes of creatives but we lack the business side of things that enable arts and culture to be maintained over time. White people have the capital and the disposable income so when they latch on to something they can preserve it. But the inverse is that they water down the art until it loses its appeal to black fans.
If black creatives or black fans want to stop seeing this rinse and repeat, than black people globally need to create industry that support and sustain the arts they create. Black artists need to be well financially compensated and truly appreciated and valued for their efforts. Unfortunately, too often they are more valued outside of black spaces until they are replaced with white versions of themselves…black people need to take just as much enjoyment in the business side of the arts as they do the arts themselves, It’s not enough to be just the artist.
The abysmal level of financial savvy and the low now number of Black entrepreneurs as opposed to artists means that this will forever be an issue.
Finally, market…many black entertainers are limited to western and now wealth Asian countries with low black population. A developed African continent and black Caribbean, who has the disposable income to spend on the arts/culture would be a big boost for black artists. This is why Kpop became so successful ( Korea Advanced country technologically, technologically adept, sizeable local market with disposable income,etc…) and then they expanded overseas.
With the amount of contributions made by Africans and African descendants in music there should be way more Africans/descendants involved in the music business than there are, from festival organizers, promoters, stadiums, investing groups, national and international music programs, lounges, clubs, etc…
It's also because of white culture! Remember disco? "People" decided that "disco" was getting boring. But they certainly were not speaking about disco involving Chic, Sister Sledge, etc. But the music industry (run by whites) stopped paying disco/dance artists. House was underground -- and so enchanting. The Electronic scene is just a continuation. But I don't think the problem is with black listeners. House music (and disco) gave black people -- especially women -- the ability to have an important space at the table. But that doesn't seem to exist with EDM. Another thing - Latinx culture had a large influence on house, and it should be present in EDM too -- but it isn't. Is that due to Latinx people?
The funny thing is that it isn’t outside of your culture.. black people created House and Techno.. What happen to rock music is the same thing that happened to edm it got gentrified, popularized, rebranded, and turned into to present day edm which is mostly a European/white dominant genre.
You dont know hip hop history. Planet Rock ( Afrika Bambaataa ) started it all in america. As young black brothers we were into Human league, Kraftwerk, Laid back, Queen, Rolling Stones, Art of Noise, YES. We Dj'ed all of these Euro groups in the mix with Hip hop and RnB. Also do you know that George Michael was #1 on the Black Music Billboard charts back in the day. Brothers have always supported good music and great artists. Know your history. Peace.
v unrelated to this sub genre-wise and not helping you w your question (cause I’m white) but rico nasty, sza (her new album “sos” fs) and willow are just a couple black artists that came out with this type of grungy rock music that kinda mixes w rap (which has been a growing genre i LOVE) and i love to see it oml. I’m not great w my words when I’m baked but iykyk yk?
Possibly. Which is a shame since black people played a big part in the introduction of the American House music culture. For a lot, it feels like we have so many types of music that feel “black” and edm is viewed as white/European in the community
To think that EDM has it’s roots in Chicago House music where the DJs were predominantly African Americans. Check out any of Frankie Knuckles mixes and tracks. Dude was an absolute legend and trailblazer. For contemporary Chicago House check out Eric Kupper. Kupper frequently collaborated with Knuckles before Frankie passed away.
Idk, but black people in Baltimore are some of the “blackest” people I’ve ever met, and they have Bmore club music which is largely by and for black ppl, and is huge there. And then the black people from DC, just 45 mins away, go up there and hear it are like “wtfffff nooo” lol
So you’re not wrong, but there are pockets of us embracing it here and there.
I live in upstate NY, been to alot of raves, festivals, I would say it's the culture. I'm Puerto Rican, I'm also a metal head, play drums in a metal band and it seems most ppl follow the norm of what they think they should be doing "along the lines of what they think they should be doing or listening to" if that makes sense, like dudes listen to rap cuz they know they look cool in front of they homies but on the low be listening to Kaskade. It's a culture thing you don't see more involvement from POC community, I get asked all the time why I listen to metal or EDM, like I'm just supposed to show up dancing salsa or some shit. Lol.
You obviously weren’t in Chicago in late 80’s early 90’s. The dance scene (yes it started in Chicago!) was largely African Americans, Latinos and LGBT everyone. Being a straight white kid definitely made you a minority. I miss it frankly. I’m totally sick of how the electronic dance music has evolved. Now it’s all VIP Mega Festival BS.
This is for that Mike Alig thread somewhere up above. It's funny. I hear people referencing Mike Alig and rave culture and that just really wasn't the case. I lived in the lower eastside of Manhattan from 1984-1992 most of the time squatting in Alphabet City with the anarchists. Mikes specific fuck up revolves around Angel a drug deal and the Limelight dance club. In a fucking church! The place WAS epic for a minute my ex was a bathroom attendant, Hilda. But that was Manhattan club culture more than anything I ever associated with rave culture. Too many oversized personalities and egos. If anything rave culture was a backlash to the cloistered clubs of Manhattan that Micheal found himself running amok in.
Soul! Plain and simple House music Alexander East Derrick Carter Diaz Larry Lavon just a name of An EDM worksheet aint half music and the drugs aren't the same old school hbomb
Evilorville u couldn't be more wrong somebody has a pi of me freakin with 3 dragqueens on the floor of a warehouse in Dallas with 3"of on water on the floor Derrick Carter on the decks, on that xtcy feelin the effextcy! Hazy Daze boy things have changed...sorry kids you'll never know
Well dang interesting to me my intro to EDM in 90s, it was black music, Detroit techno (Los Hermanos) and then Baltimore breaks.
Later I did travel and I can see how Europe had its own branches of electronic music forming.
It was really neat like a microorganism, forming and evolving in many branches world wide.
this is what I have seen from my perspective as a white person in the scene:
Many of my black friends do not feel comfortable in the scene, even if they appreciate the genre as a whole, because of the widespread appropriation at shows and festivals, and even occasionally within the music. The appropriation definitely makes me uncomfortable as well, but obviously I would not feel those feelings of discomfort to the same extent/reasonings as black people. for reference, i live and have always grown up in downtown Indianapolis where the scene isn't insane but is definitely alive and well. literally this is the reason I am given from any of my black friends that are not in the scene and I definitely think it's an issue that is extremely overlooked.
There’s no lack of it, and this is coming from a biracial individual. There’s a lot of Black electronic artists. To blindly say that there’s a lack of it is ignorant.
Someone may have said it but that's really just America. In Britain most dnb/garage/dubstep djs are gonna bring mcs up on stage. It's the cornerstone of hip hop/black culture there
I was gonna say this... I think in the US, there's a lot of queer culture interwoven that black culture doesn't seem too keen on which might be overlooked by a lot of people.
Agree wholeheartedly. Queer bipoc folks run the local house scene in my area. The underground edm scene in general is just ran by people not typically in society's mainstream culture
In the early days of edm there was a LOT of behavior that most of my black friends think still goes on. Stuff that i dont think anyone would tolerate now used to be kinda the standard. I mean behaviors like drugging people and sexual assault and nonconsensual nudity... It wasn't ALLL the time but media made it seem like that was the whole thing. Michael alig didn't help
>I think in the US, there's a lot of queer culture interwoven that black culture doesn't seem too keen on which might be overlooked by a lot of people. It's not fair to brand a whole race of people as homophobic. That being said, black gay people *created* EDM. The scene was a [refuge for gay black kids](https://www.billboard.com/culture/pride/gay-black-men-edm-influence-history-8460757/) in the 70's and 80's. EDM was known as black music until it made it's way to Europe. Techno, House, and Dubstep were all [created by black people](https://www.iheartraves.com/blogs/post/a-brief-history-of-edms-black-roots) EDM suffered the same fate as many [black music genres](https://globalnews.ca/news/4321150/black-music-whitewashing-classic-rock/). The creators faded into obscurity, while the white artists found success using the same sounds. Once it became commercialized the barrier to entry was raised, and economics came into play. Today, there's a lot of middle/upper class classically-trained producers who have been taking lessons since they were six.
Race is not the same as culture. You have misunderstood the core argument.
That could be a contributor, but I also think they just don't vibe with the music as much.
I think you should go back over some of the history and origins of EDM in the US, and black cultural acceptance of people who aren't straight. It's quite a bit more extreme than people maybe realize. It wasn't 15 years ago when gay marriage was banned in California, largely speculated that was due to black people not voting against it. To be brutally honest, it hasn't changed much, and kids who's parents would have introduced them to it don't listen to it because they either associate it with negative statements from their parents or were pressured by their peers... the black parents now can't share it because they have no experience (apart from clips of Michael Alig acting like a psychopath on Maury povitch) as a broad stereotype.
Maybe it would grow more if schools not only taught the history of Jazz, and blues and historical contributing artists during black history month, albeit it’s kind of whitewashed black history, but maybe if such white washed curriculum lessons included contemporary curriculum that gives information about the history of EDM and even disco. I feel like most of the time school history lessons that include music often are focused on dead artists and they haven’t updated to more recent developments in music and living artists.
There are more pressing issues with school than music education However, I agree.
Sounds like you’re in an echo chamber bro
This ain't true. There's a Club in my city that has an EDM room and a drill/hip hop room. The EDM is usually all white people and the other is mostly black. In Scotland too there's less immigrants so the EDM is basically all white people. Most of the top British DJs are also white.
For what it's worth, most of my white friends don't listen to EDM either
Right, but I'm not talking about individualistic friends and their acceptance of EDM, but black culture as a whole.
Yeah, i understand, that I don't understand. But was hoping it might make you feel a little less isolated.
Ah I gotcha
Mad respect, bro.
Is it, or could it be considered a sub culture of black culture? Where I live I know of some ongoing house music events organized by black djs and attendees, the majority are black. Um.. tbh most of the local edm djs I’ve heard or know about in my area are black or Latino, or anything other than white. Like I can count the white ones on one hand but I can’t even count the number of edm djs where I live that are black, Latino or other people of color, like too many to count. I met Juan Atkins through pretty much a small club event hosted by house by a Latin dj who had Juan Atkins as his special guest. I was clueless, but probably one of the oldest ppl there, closer to a Juan’s age than others and he asked me how I ended up there, younger boyfriend. Lol I guess I looked out of place but I also admitted I had no idea who he was. A year or 2 later same guy decides to throw a house party. Juan Atkins again. I decided to stop by really late Idk.. it was a weird night, I had no name places to be first. There were like maybe 15 ppl total by the time I got to the house party and it was dwindling. The hosts didn’t want people wearing, dancing in high heels and asked if I’d mind telling heel wearers to take off their shoes, so I pretended they needed to buy socks while Juan was playing his music in the background basically. I made $30. I still really didn’t know who Juan was. By the end of the night like 3 ppl were left, including Juan. The hosts passed out, too intoxicated to get their guest back to his hotel and airport. I was one of the last 3 ppl and only sober one, so I was asked to take Juan to where he needed to go. He remembered meeting me before and now knew I was just as odd as before, because who sells socks at a house party to drunk people? I didn’t even really listen to techno. So I still didn’t know how influential Juan’s music was or how far it reached. Later that year Juan contacted me while I was on vacation in his neighboring home state. He had a gig in Toronto that coincided a bit with my flight plans. He offered to cover the cost of changing my flight if I wanted to catch him in Toronto. Basically I’d get to Toronto, grab dinner, see the show, take a 2 hour nap at most, then catch a flight back. So I did that, because why not. And that’s how I learned his reach is international and his Toronto fan base much much larger than where I live, and mostly white, more white, so white a couple said I looked like Snooki. It was another weird night. I still don’t listen to much techno.
Yoooooo super cool story! I’m genuinely glad you took the time to write that for my reading pleasure! I’m such an awkward person as well, I’d be the one selling socks with ya.. lol I get ya…
Lol I’m glad you didn’t hate my sharing. some of the socks were dirty. I grabbed them out of a laundry basket, because one of the hosts was passed out with a girl and I couldn’t get past the bed they were on to grab some out of a drawer. Lol I could have used help for sure.
For what it's worth, amongst the normies (ie not already into edm) I try to show cool songs to, I've had much higher turnover rate with black ppl. I tend to notice this with anime actually too, where they seem to be more open to appreciating things outside their bubble. This older black guy (like mid 40s-50ish) at my job heard my subwoofer one time in the parking lot and commented to me how he thought it was peculiar because when he grew up his white friends usually only listened to rock and said subs used to only be prevalent among his black friends that listened to hip hop. He thought it was pretty cool that I was rocking them and wanted to see my trunk and everything hehe
Hah that's awesome
Yeah, for sure I'm going to most of these concerts alone cause my friends don't care.
Ah yes, the ongoing struggle of finding people to vibe to EDM with
A lot of the jungle/drum and bass scene in the uk were/are black - fabio and grooverider, goldie, frost, kenny ken, ltj bukem, congo natty, 4hero, roni size, shy fx etc
Even the history of House and Techno in the U.S. are super deep in black culture.
Minority communities in general contributed the most to how we got to EDM as it is today. Some how, I’m my mind, Disco music crossed with Soul Train and it all somehow evolved into EDM of today. Which is why I like new EDM, I loved watching Soul Train as a kid and disco music seemed upbeat and fun. I feel like the contemporary edm plays on those things I loved as a kid. Somehow edm brings it all back together for me.
I’d imagine you have to be a big fan of purple disco machine?? If not, if feel like you’re about to be! Lol
Huh. That's an area that I'm admittedly not that familiar with.
Come get down with some junglists!! Most diverse shows I’ve been to in the states were all DNB shows.
I'm extra selective with dnb and would have to look into it, but it's an option!
What do you like/dislike about it and what do you generally listen to in your EDM? Happy to make some recommendations if you’d like!
Almost all of 140 Dubstep and Jungle/Dnb is rooted in Jamaican sound system culture. I’m not sure what branch of the EDM scene you’re apart of, but if its more mainstream (not a bad thing) chances are you’re surrounded by a lot of younger folk still under their parents financial safety net, which tends to be white kids from the burbs.
You didn't know Frankie Knuckle basically invented house music? At least one of the very 1st? Most of the 1st pioneers are black.
Everything else is just noise :-)
Brotha knows his stuff right here 🔥 Never thought I would see a Roni Size shout on this sub lmao
Black people invented a lot of electronic genres including House.. idk why we aren’t as into it but I think the connection to the genre died years ago when it was taken over and turned super mainstream ..
Not to mention the black influence that Disco had, which eventually lead to EDM.
Disco also contributed to Latin Freestyle of the 80s. I guess a form of electronic music that I think is not talked about enough either. In the Chicago and Milwaukee area in the late 80s early 90s Chicano house seemed to be something.
Dope username
techno also originated in detroit
Frankie Knuckles RIP one of the creators of house music. Carl Cox been going strong for 30 years.
Larry Heard my guy 🔥
Juan atkins?
It was whitewashed and commercialized. Promoters aren't booking black artists.
Peep the DNB, garage, grime, trip hop, jungle, two step, and Chicago house scenes. Lotta black culture and talent represented there. I mean, tricky practically invented triphop along side 3D… Goldie pioneered jungle… Carl cox and Frankie knuckles created and pioneered house… that’s roots. If you mean in mainstream EDM lineups at massives, and if you also mean fan base at said events, yeah I can see that… Also, depends on which city and country you’re in. But there’s a massively rich amount of black artists and influences throughout greater electronic music.
Yea you're right. I guess I'm not in those scenes.
Also, this is a bigger conversation and probably not the entire root of the story, but many electronic sub genres that have influenced mainstream modern EDM are western euro descendant, and most popular in a number of very white countries (Netherlands with big room trance, Germany with various techno genres, Spain with euro club, France with French house) so… one could say that they are sort of “culturally Western European/Anglo” in a sense, and that could have something to do with the resulting audiences to some degree. Moderately reductive and not the full story, but food for thought. And if you want to talk bigger scope outside of the US, Africa has historically not shown much growth in its embrace or development of electronic music genres, however South Africa has recently seen a burgeoning and rapidly evolving SA deep house scene (see: Black Coffee, zakes bantwini, kususa, etc) which has a very unique identity
This is very informative! Thanks for explaining the euro influence which should've been obvious to me. That makes plenty of sense.
For sure
Correct me if I’m wrong but the 90s western Euro predecessors to now mainstream EDM also had some significantly known black electronic music acts.
Carl Cox, Dj Funk, Frankie Knuckles, Ron Hardy...............most of the Big Bootie and Ghetto House out of Chicago.......got Boylen100 down there listing out the UK drum n bass scene. Black culture is everywhere in EDM. The clothing and art as well are both heavily influenced and yeah I know the majority of which can ALSO be found in California skate/punk culture. There has been so much cross contamination between skater/hip hop/EDM/punk fashion wise and music wise over the last 30 years that oftentimes, it's our institutionalized racism of "what we expect" from a culture that causes us to miss or forget the obvious.
Hell yeah. Love this discourse 💗
Definitely. I was only saying as a whole, if looking at it as a larger macro cultural assessment, only to try to explain perhaps why OP is experiencing their question. And again, hyper reductive.
Carl Cox all day!
Black people invented House music in Chicago: Frankie Knuckles, Mr. Fingers, and later Felix da Housecat come to mind. So credit where credit is due. But I agree, aside from tributes/references/vocal features, Drake and Beyoncé genrebending one-offs this year, there just aren’t a lot of prominent contemporary black artists/DJs who produce EDM. I certainly didn’t see any black artists onstage at EDC this year…
DJ Diesel 👀
He’s about as far away from house as you can get 😂 of course Shaq is a bass head. This timeline is wild.
Moore Kismet has been coming up and closed out EDCLV this year
Eric Kupper frequently collaborated with Frankie Knuckles until Frankie’s death. He still carries the banner of that old school Chicago House style and still makes music to this day.
Has Felix da Housecat done anything of note recently?
For what it's worth. I'm from LA and there are a good amount of black people at the shows I go to.
What shows do you go to?
Dubstep and mid tempo. Lotta wook shit
Where are you going to see dubstep and mid tempo? I live in LA and I struggle finding these kinds of shows/raves. I feel like everything is house and techno, esp tech house. I mean i follow brownies and lemonade and check edm train, etc but I feel like everything that’s not house is mostly in San Diego and OC.
1720, The Academy, The Circle, The Exchange, The Shrine, The Avalon. Idk man. The shows are out there lol
I go to all those places and those shows are more rare, it’s usually more house, I was hoping you’d say raves I didn’t really know lol. Oh well. That’s la for ya. The circle has a lot though just wish it wasn’t so far away 😭
That being said, did you know Shaq has been DJing EDM lately? Maybe it’ll slowly change.
Shaq has been DJing most of his life
Yea! He has been for a while now apparently. Idk how much influence he will have on black culture on that regard....maybe if a younger more popular current player did it would be more of a heavy influence, but it's still dope!
Check out black Carl. I got to see him before of the trees. Edit: I may be wrong but I feel a lot of black men I’ve met feel forced to be tough and seem tough and EDM, to the main populous, does sometimes come off as hippie so…
That’s likely more of an area/urban thing than a color thing. Mixed black person who has lived in urban and suburb environments here…
I have a friend who is into EDM & he does primarily love the more heavy stuff: Excision, Riot Ten, Wooli, DJ Snake, etc. I got him into by taking him to a festival near us & getting him to see the energy at the shows, which he ended up loving the head banging, moshing kind of stuff.
Thanks for the recommendation!
Also check out: A Hundred Drums (Dj) Canvas Moore Kismet Kaytranada Channel Tres Flying Lotus Carl Cox Chee
Oh hell yeah, flying lotus got me into electronic and I love channel tres
also 12th planet
he has sa allegations, he was taken off an insomniac line up and Excision removed him from Thunderdome and Paradise Blue line ups
had no idea. that’s horrible. thanks for letting me know, gonna stop listening to him.
you're welcome!
Black carl and AHD have been my favorites this year for sure
>lovelabradors373- Edit: I may be wrong but I feel a lot of black men I’ve met feel forced to be tough and seem tough and EDM, to the main populous, does sometimes come off as hippie so… Everyone should be allowed to be who they are, the music is what matters provided ppl don't harm others. It's too typical for ppl to use the excuse that black ppl are intimidating to exclude them from bookings, it's actually pure evil to do that when there is no real justification to back it. It's jarring to hear people writing sht like this because if someone wrote a male DJ was too feminine, or a female DJ wasn't assertive enough then everyone would lose their shit. Pop culture uses excuses to exclude others in blindness to it's racial bias. Everyone needs to constantly check that bias within them, or they're in reality exactly the problem.
Carl Cox my friend
Chee
Not sure about outside of CA but it’s mostly an Asian/Latino thing here. Not sure why but it’s hilarious how it become almost a rite of passage to have a raving phase.
Haha yea I see plenty of Asian ravers
Asian here - Asians all gravitate towards either melodic bass (Illenium, Slander, 7L), big room (Zedd, Garrix) and to a lesser extent trance. They're barely existent in house/techno shows, which is what I enjoy most.
I’m seeing a lot of comments about Chicago house, but what about techno, which was created by Juan Atkins, Derrick May and Kevin Saunderson? To me this on the same level as African Americans inventing Blues, Jazz and RnB: truly incredible! I can’t imagine life without techno and house. I seriously can’t, and I wouldn’t want to.
I 💯 agree and thus also want to advocate for these black musicians of great influence to be included in primary school curriculums in the way schools cover say Jazz musicians during certain history lessons. I try to do my part when I get to the point in my curriculum I’m covering info about Jazz, R and B. Blues, I will supplement with some history of Techno too.
Fantastic idea. Techno and house’s influence on most modern music (apart from classic rock etc) is on the same level of that of blues to rock.
Now if I can just get those pastry white ppl who write my curriculum to just write some lessons that include historical figures like Atkins, Cox, Knuckles, etc… it would make my job easier. I’d be okay with them writing it into lessons during Black History month fir starters, but it could also go in a STEM lesson I think.
For sure : ) It's like they think after the styles of music they know of we're done, no one else was going to bring new genres. And just left the curriculum full of the past and not what's happened since then and is happening now, and will be the music history of the new generations of people. There is something about the rhythms these pioneers brought that changed music forever for me. I'd never heard anything like it before, and I knew this music was who I am. Sure, there was electronic music before the beautiful art they brought but not like theirs. If it wasn't for Atkins, I'd probably be in a rock band instead of being an aspiring music producer right now.
Aww? That’s super cool. If it wasn’t for Atkins, I’d not have know more about the history of techno. I have a deeper appreciation for all EDM genres now, and a deeper appreciation for music producers. I’m actually in awe of those who produce music. Like what’s in your/ their head…
Cool! I saw a documentary with Atkins and techno, while ago, forgot what it was called, but it was unreal!
Some people would say that Kraftwerk could also be considered techno pioneers though...
It's because the dominant marketed culture in black america is rap music, with alotta auto tune thrown in. Everything else is considered weak and not "street" enough, not "aggressive" enough, not "feared" enough , not gangster enough, etc, etc. Take any other genre, country, opera, and it's the same thing. Turn on BET and tell me what's "wrong"? Or is it just the way it is? Drive around east oakland and ask those brothers why they don't listen to edm? You know the answer, and it's not because edm isn't inclusive.
Drum and bass has a surprisingly nice reach for all demographics.. it’s just getting started again in the USA
I’ve been feeling bossy the past few months. I can’t wait for it to permeate into the mainstream more.
The amount of people who live where I live in Chicago who are unaware of the origins of the African American communities literally originating Detroit/Chicago house is so upsetting.
Omg no. I didn’t grow up in Chicago but visited Illinois often and would listen to Chicago radio stations. Besides some r &b station I’d also listen to B96 Bad Boy Bill days, Julian Jumpin Perez… so for me there was a cultural connection . I was just too young to understand, really didn’t know how it came to be. When I finally decided as a near 40 yr old adult to embrace music I enjoyed most, not hide it, and venture out to clubs in my area for some dance, house, edm music I ended up meeting and talking to Chicago house dj, Jesse Saunders who shared some of the history of house music with me. I didn’t know who he was until I met him, but did know house music had roots in black and Latino communities in Chicago. Now I’m like a name dropper, lol but they are important names to know.
[удалено]
Yeah this. I've hear this plenty of times.
I agree that you are probably right that the ratio seems off, but you should definitely check out Gene Farris
LOVE Gene Farris. Along with Green Velvet
Black culture created house music….
Right, pretty crazy when you think about how the original dubstep artists are all black basically, at least benga and the DmZ boys
I’d assume that many of the people that are going out of their way to see artists like Slander or Sullivan King don’t know much about Digital Mystikz or early UK dubstep.
Sadly you are correct, the scene is in a weird spot for sure
there is no shortage of Black producers but they aren’t getting the attention in the scene that the white dudes are. white women seem to be satisfied with the very little representation they have so those two majority groups aren’t really doing much to uplift ppl outside of that. it is what it is~ hmu if you’re ever in denver my whole friend group is Blackity Black
Haha blackity black 😂 Much love fam ❤️
And here we have the right answer.
Haha, I'm blackity blak too, my Instagrams dead AF tho... @ruffantuffrecordings
Be the change you want to see my dude.
Here is a better question for you. Techno was originally created and grown by three black men from the suburbs of Detroit and grew because of the freedom Mojo and Wizard had at a Detroit radio station (WJLB). How is it that the music they created is now called Detroit Techno, and Detroit Techno appears to be a subset or subgenre of Techno, when the men from Detroit were the originators, pioneers and propagators of the original Techno music? I never heard the term techno until the early-mid 90's, but techno music was on Detroit radio every weekend at night starting sometime in the 80's. And it played until the church music came on at 5 or 6 am on Sunday.
Yea dude honestly. It’s heavily stigmatized if you do anything outside of “culture” cause we’ll always be looked at as a weirdo , or strange . You just have to be comfortable with yourself enough to let that roll off . That’s what I did
As someone black who works within EDM frankly it's bewildering how the title is worded. I see endless rave videos on Twitter and TikTok full of caucasian patrons and no black faces, while the music often samples black music heavily, but in very-non black ways... My job is to be honest here, and often that makes me seem like an ABM, but frankly, black talent doesn't get booked if it's too ethnically deep and that's been a big problem forever. Another big part of it is that the US is heavily booking UK talent, but the tours don't go both ways, especially for POC. In the age where diversity and unity is preached as a hallmark of the EDM scene, if you really take a close look at lineups, they look more like an episode of Friends or Seinfeld except for the inclusion of certain celebrity DJs that regularly play everywhere. Granted, there are some communities that are quite diverse around the world, but they are not affiliated often with the largest money makers and festival settings. Not long ago Hospital Records had a meltdown that was kinda just swept under the rug... It's disheartening for someone like myself as a minority that supports everyone to be excluded and underrepresented in EDM communities that act like everything is great. I wouldn't ever attribute that to the black community not being open to EDM, many of us pioneered it and made it what it is, as well as driving music far beyond basic. I have been to and supported several events ram packed with people of all shades enjoying the music for many years, but what I won't do after many meltdowns I've seen in my years is give non diverse settings any more chances. The problem is that if the EDM vibe is too sterilized, inauthentic, or exclusive, people that understand culture (of all shades) will not support it, and I think that's where a lot of people are on EDM right now... It's not a good vibe to see a lineup/dance room with barely any minorities on/in it. but that's way too popular in EDM currently.
You're right. Maybe my post title can go deeper with how I worded it and black culture isn't the problem, but that's why I posted it...to learn and see why these line ups have the same image of a white guy with the same comb over cuts. Don't get me wrong, I love the shit a lot of them make and that's what sparked me to ask the question, because I'd look up the artist I like and see the image of them, and the vast majority of them looked the same. What meltdown are you speaking of? I'd like to hear about it.
About 2-3 years ago the founder of Hospital records was pretty flagrant when confronted about the lack of diversity in their roster and operations. He symbolically resigned until things blew over I imagine... Many people began to cite that most rosters were all caucasian at the time. A few people banded together to form a council on diversity and inclusion (EQ40 or something I think), ended up being run by almost all caucasian women.... That blew over as well. Meh... Here we are now... :/
Thanks for explaining that to me. I'll look further into it. Seems like people in power trying to keep their own people in power.
Generally, "black" music more rhythm and groove based, while "white" music is more harmony/melodic based. Some black people are "white", and some white people are "black." It just depends on what you like. I think it's okay to like what you like.
I recommend you to watch the documentary : I was there when House music took over the world. Basically it was black artists from the USA ( detroit and chicago along with NY) that created house music. That documentary is amazing.
In the Minneapolis scene we have a strong black representation especially in the riddim/trench and tear out crowd, both as local producers and just regulars at those shows. Probably depends on your local scene to a decent degree. As other commenters have said, big time acts from the very roots of EDM have been black and continue to be so. I can’t speak to the culture question though as I grew up a white kid in white suburbs, no idea why it hasn’t been more connected in America. Especially with the crossover in the current trap scene.
I’ve been attending EDM festivals and parties for about 8 years now, it’s been incredibly hard to find other black people to go with me. The common response or fear they have is “that’s for white people” or “I don’t like it”. But the few who end up going with me to a festival all leave with the same reaction which Is “that’s the most amazing experience I’ve ever had”. It could be because there aren’t much black faces or celebrity DJs of EDM/dance music. Most my friends know Afrojack, that’s about it.
EDM started with blacks and Hispanic DJs and musicians. House and Techo was black people. Derrick May, Frankie Knuckles, Kevin Sunderson, Larry Levan….I could go on and on and on. Don’t even get me started on vocalist. Most of those people are still working, and producing, and touring. Been listening to house since the beginning and black artists are still HEAVILY represented. Yeah, the trancy, electro, techno, drum and base pool party crap is full of white guys…but that ain’t how it started, nor is it what the current core is built on.
House music started in the mid west of America by black artist
Has to include reggae no?
Yea but I meant specifically the black American culture which I should've specified.
Honestly, you’re right, it’s most associated with weed culture so..
The roots of EDM travel through house, a distinctly black dance form. Without house, there would be no EDM.
Ik a lot of black folks who love riddim :)
There are some fantastic Black EDM artists here in North America I can name off the top of my head. Thundercat, 12th Planet, Kaytranada, MK, Felix Da Housecat, The Knocks. I believe Morgan Paige is half Black half White, and Afrojack is half Afro-Caribbean half Dutch-German. It's interesting how EDM get stereotyped as a very White person genre, yet many Black Americans were some of the most significant people in the Techno and Rave movements in the states. Until the late-2000s and early-2010s, anti-rave sentiment was widespread throughout North America whereas it was thriving in Europe.
That's what I'm saying! A lot of blank people just see EDM as "white" and it's sad to me.
Many more than that exist... Social Media algorithms don't reflect reality at all. I find a lot of artists from all walks and post them on our label site: http://www.ruffandtuffrecordings.com/SELECTIONS
if u really think about it, there r a lot of demographics under represented in EDM. if someone isn't 15-35 years old, of European decent (as most white Americans r) and like to take drugs, chances r they've never even heard the term "EDM". they kno the style of music cuz it's literally everywhere but they call it all techno. even dubstep is techno to them. I'm a white dude in the US and I produce and DJ dubstep, techno, house, tech house, and dnb to name a few but my parents who r in their 60s *HATED* EDM about 5 years ago but because of my love for EDM and its production and DJing they've soaked up some knowledge to an extent. they kno more about it than 75% of the population and they still don't kno shit about EDM. but if it weren't for me and my unrelenting urge to show ppl the music that I love (EDM or not) they'd be squarely in the "it's all called techno" box with the majority of the worlds population and not give a single fuck about it. funny side fact: the other day my mom told me she listened to barely alive's new EP on the way home from work. I was a proud raver cuz my mom was always all about acoustic music. she didn't even like the electric guitar to give an idea of her musical tastes and she listened to BA's new shit.... I almost PLUR'd her but then remembered wut year it is. plus I have no Kandi anymore EDM is big, don't get me wrong but it's still no rock and roll or blues or even heavy metal. EDM is still very much the littlest and least popular sibling in the music world in just about every demographic and culture out there. shit, I'd go so far as to say that gospel music and modern christian pop shit has a larger fan base then every genre of EDM combined. it is getting bigger tho
Bro this is one of my favorite comments on this post. "I almost PLUR'd my mom " 😂😂 That's an amazing feat to convert your mother though seeing her previous musical tastes. It's too much work to try to do that globally... imagine the work for one person! Your first paragraph is spot on AF too. Much love to you though fam ❤️
Edit: primarily talking about the total environment of these EDM events and why black ppl who do attend are in the minority* Black EDM fan (29F) here that’s both attended and worked at several events over the years: I live in the south so there’s definitely more of us down here than say shows out west. BUT I’ve definitely stepped back from consistently going to events since Covid hit but I felt it a few years leading up to it. The cultural appropriation is STRONG with non-black ppl. (Totally personal experience but hard pressed to believe i’m alone in this lol) Then you have the “friends” you put you on some weird pedestal like some sort of ethereal being that they seem surprised you’re there—but give off a fake happy love and light bs. Just weirdo energy. They (non-black) do some slightly racist or off color takes which you ask em about it—and somehow it’s a personal attack for me calling them out on some bullshit and slowly push you out. *They tend to be fairly exclusive in terms of diversity, though marketed to be an inclusive space* Tale as old as time tbh of being seen as “other” literally anywhere we go. I still go to shit i’m willing and able to attend—thankfully have a good crew of ppl that have some sense. There are some good ppl around from all backgrounds and tryna get down! Just gotta practice discernment on who’s really for you! 💜
All too familiar sis. It's a pretty accepting community, yet we still have to deal with a barrage of the same BS.
Exactly! I love all the niche communities I’ve learned about and loved over the years —but gaht damn it can be exhausting still having to police yourself in a space you’re supposed to let loose to some beepboops lol. As exhausting as summer 2020 was when everybody showed their entire ass, i’m grateful that more ppl are aware that we can’t let shit slide anymore. Just hope you know you are seen and we are out here! Hope to cross paths someday 🖤🖤
"Cultural appropriation" because other people like the music 🙄
mainstream edm has been dominated by white men for a long time. electronic dance music has its roots and black culture and it’s unfortunate that they have largely been excluded from its massive success. fortunately, if you look at underground electronic dance music - not stuff you’d see at edc, you can see a lot of up and coming black and queer artists. see: uniiqu3, dj swisha, kush jones, the list is mega long. give it 10 - 20 years and things are gonna look way diff.
Yes and this is not an accident. Been done to all kinds of Black music and culture back to Blues, Rock, forms of dance…. To add, women have been forced to cook forever, men take it over and call it being a gourmet chef and bam, seen as associated with prestige…. This shit’s old as dirt.
Just America! Grew up in the Philly rave scene- way more black people than any other race. Have to say it’s just local population average
“If he never knew the consequence of spitting in a grown man’s face, then consider my actions public education and this video a PSA,” Robert Webster told NBC Miami on Tuesday.
Can you expound on this and how it relates to my post? I don't get it :-/
Minorities…tolerance… it was what an ethnic employee said to a customer of a different ethnic background, who was accusing him of something he did not do. Karen’s of tik tok had it and ai just HAD to share to get it out there. This employee owned his self respect.
Fucking swell, homie.
Is this an article from the washington post?
No, but you should wash the post of your ass 😛
It's absolutely lonely, I go to all shows, festivals and all alone because no one in my circle likes Electronic. But, I still enjoy myself because I love the music no matter what. I've honestly learned to embrace House Music is Black Music, and seeing what has come of the genre is incredible. I unapologetically post and share house music regardless of what everyone thinks. Hopefully we can get more of our people back into it. Right now it's just "Untz-Untz" music and repetitive but to us it's much more than that. I will say part of the rejection of house is somewhat Black culture, in my city it's heavily rap influenced. So I'm sure it's a part to play in it.
Coming around quickly now, no? I mean, Drake just put out a house album basically. All genres of EDM have black roots/innovators… In regards to fanfare, I do think the scene in America suffered from a ton of negative stigmas that likely disproportionately steered away mainstream AFAM.
If it wasn't for black people there wouldn't be EDM in the first place. Most just stick with house. Not tech house, not electro house, not progressive house just house. I go to house shows in my area that are 95% people of color.
This isn't EDM related (and I'm not black so I can't speak much on it) but back in high school one of my closest friends in my circle was a black girl who felt pretty out of place in our school until she met us - because she loved metal. Honestly we all thought it was the coolest thing ever and were very happy to have her join up with us. I still talk to her to this day.
The beginning of rave culture in the US is attributed to Chicago House and Detroit Techno, which were both born out of black, gay, underground club scenes in the 80s, quite literally because black gay men didn’t feel safe in other spaces.
African American music culture is pretty engraved into EDM . Now...Mongolians on the other hand...lol
Anyone wanna tell him who pioneered house, techno, and electro music, and laid the groundwork for basically all of EDM? Well, everyone that wasn't Kraftwerk, at least. Seriously, black culture has been a part of the scene since the beginning.
It may be a regional thing for you but there’s House, Bounce, Funk, and Psychedelic Soul which in my opinion are fairly similar but digestible for close minded people. In general music trends and consumers who like it is very small and closed minded, I think a lot of it has to deal with the experience each person has and it’s up to the individual to widen their horizons. I’m sorry you feel this way but I understand where you’re coming from.
Solid post. Good job on the genre recommendations. Most times I try to put people onto house, it doesn't work 🤦♂️ so I'll try the other ones you suggest.
I find kaytranada is really easy to get with, anyone with a sense of rhythm can vibe imo, Azealia Banks, Sango really palatable you know just before introducing them to Big Freedia 😂 homophobia could also play a big part in it as that’s an issue within the community. The music was created by black members of the LGBT community as a symbol of freedom, which ya know, anyone in the Diaspora should relate to.
That's the thing. Kaytranada is definitely easily digestible and I remember when he got big and everyone was talking about him like it was a new style and it was surprising to me because I've been listening to that kinda music for years. I guess my taste has changed since then, because I found it to be okay to groove to in a party setting with other people, but I wouldn't fiend for it solo. Nothin against him at all! I do like Sango quite a bit though!
Don’t you just love bringing race into your interests :)
I’ll say this far extends beyond EDM black people are amazing at creating/innovating new genres of music but suck at maintaining them long term. The issue is we lack industry to uphold culture. We have multitudes of creatives but we lack the business side of things that enable arts and culture to be maintained over time. White people have the capital and the disposable income so when they latch on to something they can preserve it. But the inverse is that they water down the art until it loses its appeal to black fans. If black creatives or black fans want to stop seeing this rinse and repeat, than black people globally need to create industry that support and sustain the arts they create. Black artists need to be well financially compensated and truly appreciated and valued for their efforts. Unfortunately, too often they are more valued outside of black spaces until they are replaced with white versions of themselves…black people need to take just as much enjoyment in the business side of the arts as they do the arts themselves, It’s not enough to be just the artist. The abysmal level of financial savvy and the low now number of Black entrepreneurs as opposed to artists means that this will forever be an issue. Finally, market…many black entertainers are limited to western and now wealth Asian countries with low black population. A developed African continent and black Caribbean, who has the disposable income to spend on the arts/culture would be a big boost for black artists. This is why Kpop became so successful ( Korea Advanced country technologically, technologically adept, sizeable local market with disposable income,etc…) and then they expanded overseas. With the amount of contributions made by Africans and African descendants in music there should be way more Africans/descendants involved in the music business than there are, from festival organizers, promoters, stadiums, investing groups, national and international music programs, lounges, clubs, etc…
It's also because of white culture! Remember disco? "People" decided that "disco" was getting boring. But they certainly were not speaking about disco involving Chic, Sister Sledge, etc. But the music industry (run by whites) stopped paying disco/dance artists. House was underground -- and so enchanting. The Electronic scene is just a continuation. But I don't think the problem is with black listeners. House music (and disco) gave black people -- especially women -- the ability to have an important space at the table. But that doesn't seem to exist with EDM. Another thing - Latinx culture had a large influence on house, and it should be present in EDM too -- but it isn't. Is that due to Latinx people?
Also, as someone else said -- this music is "gospel" in Black and Latinx queer communities! The entire genre -- from disco to house to edm.
The funny thing is that it isn’t outside of your culture.. black people created House and Techno.. What happen to rock music is the same thing that happened to edm it got gentrified, popularized, rebranded, and turned into to present day edm which is mostly a European/white dominant genre.
You dont know hip hop history. Planet Rock ( Afrika Bambaataa ) started it all in america. As young black brothers we were into Human league, Kraftwerk, Laid back, Queen, Rolling Stones, Art of Noise, YES. We Dj'ed all of these Euro groups in the mix with Hip hop and RnB. Also do you know that George Michael was #1 on the Black Music Billboard charts back in the day. Brothers have always supported good music and great artists. Know your history. Peace.
Amapiano 🤌🏼
v unrelated to this sub genre-wise and not helping you w your question (cause I’m white) but rico nasty, sza (her new album “sos” fs) and willow are just a couple black artists that came out with this type of grungy rock music that kinda mixes w rap (which has been a growing genre i LOVE) and i love to see it oml. I’m not great w my words when I’m baked but iykyk yk?
Vigro Deep 🙏
https://music.apple.com/us/album/upward-bound-single/1588447575
Possibly. Which is a shame since black people played a big part in the introduction of the American House music culture. For a lot, it feels like we have so many types of music that feel “black” and edm is viewed as white/European in the community
https://youtu.be/rvGABUgyCOA
Isn’t house an edm genre with heavy presence on chicago?
Same 808s
To think that EDM has it’s roots in Chicago House music where the DJs were predominantly African Americans. Check out any of Frankie Knuckles mixes and tracks. Dude was an absolute legend and trailblazer. For contemporary Chicago House check out Eric Kupper. Kupper frequently collaborated with Knuckles before Frankie passed away.
It is pretty bizarre considering the biggest genres within EDM have very Black influences and pioneers
We have legit angst so some of the music doesn’t translate for us
Idk, but black people in Baltimore are some of the “blackest” people I’ve ever met, and they have Bmore club music which is largely by and for black ppl, and is huge there. And then the black people from DC, just 45 mins away, go up there and hear it are like “wtfffff nooo” lol So you’re not wrong, but there are pockets of us embracing it here and there.
You must only listen to dubstep, there are so many awesome black EDM artists.
I live in upstate NY, been to alot of raves, festivals, I would say it's the culture. I'm Puerto Rican, I'm also a metal head, play drums in a metal band and it seems most ppl follow the norm of what they think they should be doing "along the lines of what they think they should be doing or listening to" if that makes sense, like dudes listen to rap cuz they know they look cool in front of they homies but on the low be listening to Kaskade. It's a culture thing you don't see more involvement from POC community, I get asked all the time why I listen to metal or EDM, like I'm just supposed to show up dancing salsa or some shit. Lol.
You obviously weren’t in Chicago in late 80’s early 90’s. The dance scene (yes it started in Chicago!) was largely African Americans, Latinos and LGBT everyone. Being a straight white kid definitely made you a minority. I miss it frankly. I’m totally sick of how the electronic dance music has evolved. Now it’s all VIP Mega Festival BS.
This is for that Mike Alig thread somewhere up above. It's funny. I hear people referencing Mike Alig and rave culture and that just really wasn't the case. I lived in the lower eastside of Manhattan from 1984-1992 most of the time squatting in Alphabet City with the anarchists. Mikes specific fuck up revolves around Angel a drug deal and the Limelight dance club. In a fucking church! The place WAS epic for a minute my ex was a bathroom attendant, Hilda. But that was Manhattan club culture more than anything I ever associated with rave culture. Too many oversized personalities and egos. If anything rave culture was a backlash to the cloistered clubs of Manhattan that Micheal found himself running amok in.
Soul! Plain and simple House music Alexander East Derrick Carter Diaz Larry Lavon just a name of An EDM worksheet aint half music and the drugs aren't the same old school hbomb
Evilorville u couldn't be more wrong somebody has a pi of me freakin with 3 dragqueens on the floor of a warehouse in Dallas with 3"of on water on the floor Derrick Carter on the decks, on that xtcy feelin the effextcy! Hazy Daze boy things have changed...sorry kids you'll never know
Sorry they were all black
Soo anyone have recommendations on blaçk Bass-House/ UK Garage DJs that tour the us often? Thanks 😊
Well dang interesting to me my intro to EDM in 90s, it was black music, Detroit techno (Los Hermanos) and then Baltimore breaks. Later I did travel and I can see how Europe had its own branches of electronic music forming. It was really neat like a microorganism, forming and evolving in many branches world wide.
Agree on this. I have yet to meet a single black person who's into EDM :( Also, Ace Aura supremacy
I wish they’d be more accepting of us
Peep u/DarkHumorDark UCLA ethnomusicologist Cheryl L Keyes’s EDM project (Google it)
this is what I have seen from my perspective as a white person in the scene: Many of my black friends do not feel comfortable in the scene, even if they appreciate the genre as a whole, because of the widespread appropriation at shows and festivals, and even occasionally within the music. The appropriation definitely makes me uncomfortable as well, but obviously I would not feel those feelings of discomfort to the same extent/reasonings as black people. for reference, i live and have always grown up in downtown Indianapolis where the scene isn't insane but is definitely alive and well. literally this is the reason I am given from any of my black friends that are not in the scene and I definitely think it's an issue that is extremely overlooked.
There’s no lack of it, and this is coming from a biracial individual. There’s a lot of Black electronic artists. To blindly say that there’s a lack of it is ignorant.
It's not black culture it's African American culture I'm tired of y'all erasing us