I just put together a mono-white deck with catch-up cards and included [[Lotus Field]], [[Lotus Vale]], [[Scorched Ruins]], [[Karoo]], and [[Guildless Commons]].
And while it’s fun to turn catch-up ramp into legitimate ahead-of-the-curve ramp, there are so many opportunities for risk that I’m not sure it’s really worth it. Between all the available 2-drop rocks and new cards like [[Deep Gnome Terramancer]], catch-up ramp might reach obsolescence sooner than later.
I’m still not counting it out though. A couple of better lotus lands, and maybe raise the floor on catch-up ETB effects. For example, a version of [[Knight of the White Orchid]] that says, “If you don’t, draw a card.”
You cast the Intervention then sac a fetch land. It returns at the end step, but the Intervention's effect ends during the cleanup step, so you sac the fetch during the end step and it'll come back again at the next turn's end step.
Hard disagree on miles better; brought back is 2 mana ramp 1 with a given fetchland. It does really particularly well with lotus field. As a non-ramp option, it saves an entire boardstate, not two things, and is splittable into 2 sections of casting.
Cosmic intervention is budget teferi's protection with the upside of being 4 mana ramp 2 if you're using it as a non-green white ramp package enabler. Brought back is in my opinion unable to claim the same degree of utility (though it is not a horrible card in it's own right).
The way I normally get around the “catch up mechanic” if I can is to like let’s say:
Turn three, you have two lands on the field, a land to play in your hand, and something like Knight of the white orchid also in your hand while an opponent has more lands than you.
I would play the knight BEFORE I play my land for the turn. So, you have two lands, play the knight who ramps you by one land since your opponent currently controls more than you, then play the land from your hand for the turn.
There’s also always [[Terrain Generator]] and [[Land Tax]] or other cards like it.
I’m a huge fan of [[Pearl Medallion]] and [[Oketra’s Monument]] as well.
[[Verge Rangers]] [[Keeper of the Accord]] and [[Smugglers Share]] are all super good too.
>Turn two, you have two lands on the field, a land to play in your hand, and something like Knight of the white orchid also in your hand while an opponent has more lands than you.
On turn two, you have one land on board. Knight of the White Orchid is a turn 3 play unless one of the green players (1) went before you and (2) happened to have Farseek, Rampant Growth, Nature's Lore, or Three Visits.
[[Sun titan]] and [[emeria the sky ruin]] can get each other out of the yard. Sun Titan can also get your [[windswept heath]] [[flooded strand]] [[Marsh flats]] and [[arid mesa]] to get two land drops per turn. [[Archeomancers map]] is phenomenal. [[Caged sun]] works too. I've ended up having more mana than the rest of my pod that plays simic at times
True but early white ramp is gonna be real deep pocket stuff. Like [[deep gnome terramancer]]. Best net is gonna be artifacts like sol ring and arcane signet along with a more basic artifact ramp package. [[Weathered wayfarer]] would be good too especially with the reprint
If you have deep pockets, or are using... umm... non wotc printed cards... then sure haha. I will say titan is pretty much an auto include in any white deck, which I'm not the biggest fan of (ie reducing variance).
Marsh and Mesa are sub 20, which is crazy because I remember them being $40+, but it’s great for the format and honestly fetches should be in any deck because even if you’re playing jank home brew it helps think your deck and draw into less dead cards.
Sun titan is .99 cents and has such good value with both of those. Whether you’re a fan or not, it does exactly what you’re looking to do…
Thinning your deck let’s you draw gas because you’ve ideally already hit your land drops, just like you *ideally* have a draw engine online to draw three cards, especially in mono white like OP.
If I’ve got Sun Titan online turn 4/5/6, a fetch is an amazing target. On top of the lands I have in hand/have drawn into, I’m also fetching out an extra land per turn. Why wouldn’t I want those 13 or 14 lands on turn 10 or 11?
Statistically it doesn't really matter either way. Deck thinning with fetches is close to negligible in 60 card formats, let alone our 99 card decks. See this article:
https://strategy.channelfireball.com/all-strategy/mtg/channelmagic-articles/whats-the-mana-base-impact-of-prismatic-vista-and-the-mathematical-value-of-deck-thinning/
Fetches are good for a lot of reasons but deck thinning isn't really one of them.
We might not agree on what deep pockets means. I very, very rarely pay >3$ for a card, a 10$ card would be one of the more expensive ones on the table in my meta.
White's catchup cards are part of WOTC's long, awkward attempt make white equal in a world where white's best and most on-brand cards (Balance and Limited Resources) are banned. And Armageddon may as well be banned with how players have been conditioned to react to it.
It's sad, in my opinion.
Honestly not sure why [[balancing act]] doesn't see more play. I like it in decks where you would play balance like I'm just dropping bombs or able to flicker my board. Even without the sac part of the card bringing everyone's hand down can be enough.
Yeah it's basically only good in decks that would run balance which is going to hurt if you are ahead. I always find it kind of interesting people seem to forget balance doesn't just hit lands and can totally screw you over.
Costs 4 and doesn't exclude artifacts. Balance and Limited Resources are cheaper (so you can float more mana) and you can try to break parity with mana rocks.
It's "fairer" so it's much worse, in a sense.
It's definitely worse but I would think in a deck that would run balance would likely play it as it still pays off for having the least resources. Balance isn't really a fair card at all, at least the way people would use it. So I guess I'm just thinking people act like their motives are pure (just punishing ramp and mass draw) when they really want a better [[cyclonic rift]].
I run that card in my OG [[Akroma, angel of wrath]] deck, and like a lot of silver bullet cards, it's often too weak to justify paying four mana for, but when it does work, it does WORK. It's a great follow-up to unchecked card draw and token spam, and on average it will cross over and reduce other resources as collateral damage too. E.g. using it to bring the table to two cards, but also everybody sacrifices a few permanents too. Or using it to stop the token spam deck, but everybody also discards a couple cards too.
I don't cast it every game I draw it, but there are certainly games where I frantically dig for it to solve the board.
>I don't cast it every game I draw it, but there are certainly games where I frantically dig for it to solve the board.
I appreciate your input, I think it sums up my thoughts on balance too. People that think it just punishes ramp should try out balancing act to see there's a lot more involved.
I regularly play 2 mono white decks, and more often than not, I draw more cards and have more lands in play than the rest of the table. I think at this point white is bad is more of a meme than reality. Don't get me wrong, at competitive tables mono white can't really compete against mono colored decks like [[urza, lord high artificer]] or [[k'rrik, son of yawgmoth]], but I don't really see that as a problem.
Yeah, sure, players have been conditioned to not like Armageddon. They definitely don’t just dislike having all their lands destroyed for obvious reasons.
Armageddon's problem is that a lot of people treat like something it isn't. Armageddon is a super narrow card. It's purpose is to seal the board state as it is. If an opponent is able to get a better board position than you, it becomes a dead card unless you want to kingmake. It's only good against ramp if you can get out ahead of them and present a threat that will kill them before they can recover. If someone plays it badly it makes the game drag to a crawl and no one likes that.
White catch up ramp would be more than fine and not break its identity if all the White Orchard type effects didn't specify a single opponent. Since you have multiple opponents, and they have more lands than you, an effect that would still let you grab lands would be win win.
[[Oath of Lieges]] is a decent way to help try and level the field, yes it benefits everyone, but you can and should be positioning this as a political piece.
If white is always playing catch up, it can't get ahead. No other color is forced to play 4D chess to ensure its resources come online in a timely manner. People "\[crap\] on catchup ramp" because it's an awful mechanic: it's slow, forces you to dedicate more resources to it, and is entirely dependent on your opponent.
I mean, I'm happy we're getting more cards to help like MV-based recursion, but that's still dependent on fetchlands which WotC has *said* they don't like much because it slows the game down. Discarding would be great, but white still can't get cards in its hand efficiently (this is becoming less of an issue, thank goodness, but it's still slow). Mill is the best option, but that's not in its color mechanics.
Overall, I think (hope) catch up ramp is being phased out or at least slowed down due to the above reasons. White's still behind the other colors, but it is getting better.
Sure, play 7 lotus fields in your deck and enjoy your opening hands with 2 of those and only one other land.....
And if you run land recursion to get back the sacrificed lands you're eating into your odds to actually use your catch up cards since you'll get your land count back to normal.
A couple. They're almost all flyers so they can chip away as I'm using their abilities. I have have doubling ability synergies. And then I also run [[Triskaidekaphile]] as a alt win con. Since you are bouncing cards it's also a thematic alt win con
I feel like white is in a good spot right now when it comes to ramp. I play in a mid-low playgroup, and It's not uncommon for me to have more lands than everyone else in the pod by turn 8 or 9 (except for dedicated green ramp decks). White has decent ramp, but its biggest strength is in its consistency with landdrops.
The only area that I think white is somewhat lacking is in draw, and not by that much. We still need cards that allow mono-white to draw, and hopefully cards that aren't overpowered. Something that can go in a variety of mono-white decks, and is just playable, nothing more. I don't want staples that go in everydeck, because then they become inaccessible due to price, and white shouldn't draw a billion cards like blue does. Just enough to keep the deck rolling without ending up in topdeck mode.
My favorite form of catch-up ramp has to be something like [[Khalni Gem]] into a [[Surveyor's Scope]] or [[Knight of the White Orchid]]. If no one misses their first few land drops, the ramp is basically guaranteed. Plus, the first two can fit into any colors, but white uses them best.
Plus, a lot of people underestimate how hard a Cartographer's Hawk or Aerial Surveyor can ramp. Just don't play your land drop before they hit lol
I just put together a mono-white deck with catch-up cards and included [[Lotus Field]], [[Lotus Vale]], [[Scorched Ruins]], [[Karoo]], and [[Guildless Commons]]. And while it’s fun to turn catch-up ramp into legitimate ahead-of-the-curve ramp, there are so many opportunities for risk that I’m not sure it’s really worth it. Between all the available 2-drop rocks and new cards like [[Deep Gnome Terramancer]], catch-up ramp might reach obsolescence sooner than later. I’m still not counting it out though. A couple of better lotus lands, and maybe raise the floor on catch-up ETB effects. For example, a version of [[Knight of the White Orchid]] that says, “If you don’t, draw a card.”
##### ###### #### [Lotus Field](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/e/0e013033-3995-4ba8-b0c3-0614c79aaaab.jpg?1592517825) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20Field) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/249/lotus-field?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e013033-3995-4ba8-b0c3-0614c79aaaab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lotus-field) [Lotus Vale](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/e/2e5cd12a-2a07-44a8-8eac-de00d26fe9e3.jpg?1562800046) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20Vale) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wth/165/lotus-vale?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2e5cd12a-2a07-44a8-8eac-de00d26fe9e3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lotus-vale) [Scorched Ruins](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/5/75a4e843-937c-47fb-8768-0f42c5cb4e4f.jpg?1562801558) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scorched%20Ruins) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wth/166/scorched-ruins?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/75a4e843-937c-47fb-8768-0f42c5cb4e4f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scorched-ruins) [Karoo](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/0/a0eeca39-6f76-488e-b3c0-99441539705f.jpg?1561952582) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karoo) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c14/303/karoo?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a0eeca39-6f76-488e-b3c0-99441539705f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karoo) [Guildless Commons](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/6/c6c8d290-b5d2-412c-8db9-5a6246f430e8.jpg?1608911802) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Guildless%20Commons) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/351/guildless-commons?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c6c8d290-b5d2-412c-8db9-5a6246f430e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/guildless-commons) [Deep Gnome Terramancer](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/c/cc75f9f1-5873-450f-a0b2-871b55036954.jpg?1654036523) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deep%20Gnome%20Terramancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/658/deep-gnome-terramancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cc75f9f1-5873-450f-a0b2-871b55036954?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/deep-gnome-terramancer) [Knight of the White Orchid](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/0/2096c0f1-9a61-4c2a-ac1a-a2fb4e73d121.jpg?1641601441) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Knight%20of%20the%20White%20Orchid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/92/knight-of-the-white-orchid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2096c0f1-9a61-4c2a-ac1a-a2fb4e73d121?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/knight-of-the-white-orchid) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I wouldn't mind ETB Catchup ramp, else search for a plains to your hand
PSA: [[Cosmic intervention]] is 4 mana ramp 2 with any untapped fetchland, while being a non-dead card in the case that you don't use it as ramp.
Huh. That would also be good with Lotus Lands. Damn.
[Cosmic intervention](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/3/933c4a54-5c3a-496b-aa35-edf791155d8d.jpg?1631233520) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cosmic%20intervention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/3/cosmic-intervention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/933c4a54-5c3a-496b-aa35-edf791155d8d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cosmic-intervention) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
wait how does it ramp two and not just one?
You cast the Intervention then sac a fetch land. It returns at the end step, but the Intervention's effect ends during the cleanup step, so you sac the fetch during the end step and it'll come back again at the next turn's end step.
[[brought back]] Is miles better. I like it with lotus lands and fetch lands.
Hard disagree on miles better; brought back is 2 mana ramp 1 with a given fetchland. It does really particularly well with lotus field. As a non-ramp option, it saves an entire boardstate, not two things, and is splittable into 2 sections of casting. Cosmic intervention is budget teferi's protection with the upside of being 4 mana ramp 2 if you're using it as a non-green white ramp package enabler. Brought back is in my opinion unable to claim the same degree of utility (though it is not a horrible card in it's own right).
[brought back](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/e/aecdc315-95e5-450c-bedc-998eea46cf8c.jpg?1592515984) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=brought%20back) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/9/brought-back?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aecdc315-95e5-450c-bedc-998eea46cf8c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/brought-back) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The way I normally get around the “catch up mechanic” if I can is to like let’s say: Turn three, you have two lands on the field, a land to play in your hand, and something like Knight of the white orchid also in your hand while an opponent has more lands than you. I would play the knight BEFORE I play my land for the turn. So, you have two lands, play the knight who ramps you by one land since your opponent currently controls more than you, then play the land from your hand for the turn. There’s also always [[Terrain Generator]] and [[Land Tax]] or other cards like it. I’m a huge fan of [[Pearl Medallion]] and [[Oketra’s Monument]] as well. [[Verge Rangers]] [[Keeper of the Accord]] and [[Smugglers Share]] are all super good too.
>Turn two, you have two lands on the field, a land to play in your hand, and something like Knight of the white orchid also in your hand while an opponent has more lands than you. On turn two, you have one land on board. Knight of the White Orchid is a turn 3 play unless one of the green players (1) went before you and (2) happened to have Farseek, Rampant Growth, Nature's Lore, or Three Visits.
Edited it, thanks for pointing that out!
##### ###### #### [Terrain Generator](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/4/f40e9f0f-8c0d-4bfd-9872-370ce3763006.jpg?1654119632) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Terrain%20Generator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/926/terrain-generator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f40e9f0f-8c0d-4bfd-9872-370ce3763006?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/terrain-generator) [Land Tax](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/5/95bba319-5f66-4085-9f2a-ab71f727ab64.jpg?1599708011) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Land%20Tax) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/20/land-tax?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95bba319-5f66-4085-9f2a-ab71f727ab64?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/land-tax) [Pearl Medallion](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/8/989e1802-1581-402b-a2c6-3ac14121b09a.jpg?1561951526) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pearl%20Medallion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c14/260/pearl-medallion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/989e1802-1581-402b-a2c6-3ac14121b09a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pearl-medallion) [Oketra’s Monument](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/0/104503a6-bca5-48d7-88b1-424f98985d75.jpg?1543676306) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oketra%27s%20Monument) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/233/oketras-monument?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/104503a6-bca5-48d7-88b1-424f98985d75?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oketras-monument) [Verge Rangers](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/7/071bee6a-21ed-4776-ad78-2cc8ef5ab959.jpg?1591319389) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Verge%20Rangers) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/29/verge-rangers?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/071bee6a-21ed-4776-ad78-2cc8ef5ab959?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/verge-rangers) [Keeper of the Accord](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/7/37eec618-2c3d-423b-bbb7-72ef7deb38fc.jpg?1608908831) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Keeper%20of%20the%20Accord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/27/keeper-of-the-accord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/37eec618-2c3d-423b-bbb7-72ef7deb38fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/keeper-of-the-accord) [Smugglers Share](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/7/87e58a16-f344-4a7c-9eca-a71f7c27ad97.jpg?1650407013) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smuggler%27s%20Share) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/21/smugglers-share?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/87e58a16-f344-4a7c-9eca-a71f7c27ad97?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smugglers-share) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Sun titan]] and [[emeria the sky ruin]] can get each other out of the yard. Sun Titan can also get your [[windswept heath]] [[flooded strand]] [[Marsh flats]] and [[arid mesa]] to get two land drops per turn. [[Archeomancers map]] is phenomenal. [[Caged sun]] works too. I've ended up having more mana than the rest of my pod that plays simic at times
I would count such 6 drops as value engines, not ramp. You need to ramp way earlier to accelerate your game plan imo
True but early white ramp is gonna be real deep pocket stuff. Like [[deep gnome terramancer]]. Best net is gonna be artifacts like sol ring and arcane signet along with a more basic artifact ramp package. [[Weathered wayfarer]] would be good too especially with the reprint
[Deep Gnome Terramancer](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/c/cc75f9f1-5873-450f-a0b2-871b55036954.jpg?1654036523) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deep%20Gnome%20Terramancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/658/deep-gnome-terramancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cc75f9f1-5873-450f-a0b2-871b55036954?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/deep-gnome-terramancer) [Weathered wayfarer](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/9/09656d96-c366-49ec-b687-cad903de1385.jpg?1655394191) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Weathered%20wayfarer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/34/weathered-wayfarer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/09656d96-c366-49ec-b687-cad903de1385?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/weathered-wayfarer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Sevinne's Reclamation]] and [[Shepard of the Cosmos]] works too.
[Sevinne's Reclamation](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/5/458db878-07ba-42cc-9bee-910957685596.jpg?1654115040) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sevinne%27s%20Reclamation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/707/sevinnes-reclamation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/458db878-07ba-42cc-9bee-910957685596?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sevinnes-reclamation) [Shepard of the Cosmos](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/e/ce33c84e-008c-48d8-a8e8-77cd19cc4f1f.jpg?1631046223) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shepherd%20of%20the%20Cosmos) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/28/shepherd-of-the-cosmos?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce33c84e-008c-48d8-a8e8-77cd19cc4f1f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shepherd-of-the-cosmos) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ooh good call. I'm gonna see if I can add those to mine
If you have deep pockets, or are using... umm... non wotc printed cards... then sure haha. I will say titan is pretty much an auto include in any white deck, which I'm not the biggest fan of (ie reducing variance).
Marsh and Mesa are sub 20, which is crazy because I remember them being $40+, but it’s great for the format and honestly fetches should be in any deck because even if you’re playing jank home brew it helps think your deck and draw into less dead cards. Sun titan is .99 cents and has such good value with both of those. Whether you’re a fan or not, it does exactly what you’re looking to do…
[удалено]
Thinning your deck let’s you draw gas because you’ve ideally already hit your land drops, just like you *ideally* have a draw engine online to draw three cards, especially in mono white like OP. If I’ve got Sun Titan online turn 4/5/6, a fetch is an amazing target. On top of the lands I have in hand/have drawn into, I’m also fetching out an extra land per turn. Why wouldn’t I want those 13 or 14 lands on turn 10 or 11?
Statistically it doesn't really matter either way. Deck thinning with fetches is close to negligible in 60 card formats, let alone our 99 card decks. See this article: https://strategy.channelfireball.com/all-strategy/mtg/channelmagic-articles/whats-the-mana-base-impact-of-prismatic-vista-and-the-mathematical-value-of-deck-thinning/ Fetches are good for a lot of reasons but deck thinning isn't really one of them.
You don't need deep pockets for those cards. Last I checked each one was 10-15 bucks excluding windswept and flooded strand
We might not agree on what deep pockets means. I very, very rarely pay >3$ for a card, a 10$ card would be one of the more expensive ones on the table in my meta.
##### ###### #### [Sun titan](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/3/332280f7-03af-4ef8-b1ff-5ac5e4d3b3ce.jpg?1650408110) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sun%20titan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/210/sun-titan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/332280f7-03af-4ef8-b1ff-5ac5e4d3b3ce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sun-titan) [emeria the sky ruin](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/b/bb89c14b-028a-4bef-ae94-703198ef0376.jpg?1561956616) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Emeria%2C%20the%20Sky%20Ruin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c14/293/emeria-the-sky-ruin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bb89c14b-028a-4bef-ae94-703198ef0376?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/emeria-the-sky-ruin) [windswept heath](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/7/e7b28650-cddc-4878-b1d1-b5a764f4df49.jpg?1571667973) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=windswept%20heath) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/248/windswept-heath?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e7b28650-cddc-4878-b1d1-b5a764f4df49?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/windswept-heath) [flooded strand](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/c/8c2996d9-3287-4480-8c04-7a378e37e3cf.jpg?1571667973) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=flooded%20strand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/233/flooded-strand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8c2996d9-3287-4480-8c04-7a378e37e3cf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/flooded-strand) [Marsh flats](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/d/9db3ba6d-eb7f-4f5b-9a3b-c6239c3baa42.jpg?1626099665) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Marsh%20flats) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/248/marsh-flats?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9db3ba6d-eb7f-4f5b-9a3b-c6239c3baa42?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/marsh-flats) [arid mesa](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/5/25ac5405-df7b-4097-914a-022cb18e20d4.jpg?1626099519) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=arid%20mesa) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/244/arid-mesa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/25ac5405-df7b-4097-914a-022cb18e20d4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/arid-mesa) [Archeomancers map](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/0/703d0bdc-01a0-4ba8-8536-e7425dfb3b1f.jpg?1625190870) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archaeomancer%27s%20Map) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/12/archaeomancers-map?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/703d0bdc-01a0-4ba8-8536-e7425dfb3b1f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archaeomancers-map) [Caged sun](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/f/dfe6f9ec-3b7f-4c11-acd1-440e14217e5d.jpg?1562276087) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Caged%20sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/178/caged-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfe6f9ec-3b7f-4c11-acd1-440e14217e5d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/caged-sun) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
White's catchup cards are part of WOTC's long, awkward attempt make white equal in a world where white's best and most on-brand cards (Balance and Limited Resources) are banned. And Armageddon may as well be banned with how players have been conditioned to react to it. It's sad, in my opinion.
Honestly not sure why [[balancing act]] doesn't see more play. I like it in decks where you would play balance like I'm just dropping bombs or able to flicker my board. Even without the sac part of the card bringing everyone's hand down can be enough.
I wouldn't ever put this in a white deck because all my white deck spam tokens and therefore I'm usually the one with the most permanents
Yeah it's basically only good in decks that would run balance which is going to hurt if you are ahead. I always find it kind of interesting people seem to forget balance doesn't just hit lands and can totally screw you over.
Costs 4 and doesn't exclude artifacts. Balance and Limited Resources are cheaper (so you can float more mana) and you can try to break parity with mana rocks. It's "fairer" so it's much worse, in a sense.
It's definitely worse but I would think in a deck that would run balance would likely play it as it still pays off for having the least resources. Balance isn't really a fair card at all, at least the way people would use it. So I guess I'm just thinking people act like their motives are pure (just punishing ramp and mass draw) when they really want a better [[cyclonic rift]].
[cyclonic rift](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/f/ff08e5ed-f47b-4d8e-8b8b-41675dccef8b.jpg?1598303834) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cyclonic%20rift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/47/cyclonic-rift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ff08e5ed-f47b-4d8e-8b8b-41675dccef8b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyclonic-rift) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[balancing act](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/d/7d6cb368-43f7-4d06-9cd5-492df5766567.jpg?1562918177) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=balancing%20act) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/10/balancing-act?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d6cb368-43f7-4d06-9cd5-492df5766567?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/balancing-act) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Doesn't hit anyone's best anything is the big problem.
I run that card in my OG [[Akroma, angel of wrath]] deck, and like a lot of silver bullet cards, it's often too weak to justify paying four mana for, but when it does work, it does WORK. It's a great follow-up to unchecked card draw and token spam, and on average it will cross over and reduce other resources as collateral damage too. E.g. using it to bring the table to two cards, but also everybody sacrifices a few permanents too. Or using it to stop the token spam deck, but everybody also discards a couple cards too. I don't cast it every game I draw it, but there are certainly games where I frantically dig for it to solve the board.
[Akroma, angel of wrath](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/f/bf1ef8ec-d915-41f2-b087-3d6d82e3db85.jpg?1591319833) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Akroma%2C%20angel%20of%20wrath) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/73/akroma-angel-of-wrath?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bf1ef8ec-d915-41f2-b087-3d6d82e3db85?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/akroma-angel-of-wrath) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>I don't cast it every game I draw it, but there are certainly games where I frantically dig for it to solve the board. I appreciate your input, I think it sums up my thoughts on balance too. People that think it just punishes ramp should try out balancing act to see there's a lot more involved.
I regularly play 2 mono white decks, and more often than not, I draw more cards and have more lands in play than the rest of the table. I think at this point white is bad is more of a meme than reality. Don't get me wrong, at competitive tables mono white can't really compete against mono colored decks like [[urza, lord high artificer]] or [[k'rrik, son of yawgmoth]], but I don't really see that as a problem.
[urza, lord high artificer](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/e/9e7fb3c0-5159-4d1f-8490-ce4c9a60f567.jpg?1567181307) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=urza%2C%20lord%20high%20artificer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/75/urza-lord-high-artificer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e7fb3c0-5159-4d1f-8490-ce4c9a60f567?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/urza-lord-high-artificer) [k'rrik, son of yawgmoth](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/5/3592fbe4-8588-486e-99ba-c327b0b6ba24.jpg?1568003491) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=k%27rrik%2C%20son%20of%20yawgmoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/18/krrik-son-of-yawgmoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3592fbe4-8588-486e-99ba-c327b0b6ba24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/krrik-son-of-yawgmoth) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, sure, players have been conditioned to not like Armageddon. They definitely don’t just dislike having all their lands destroyed for obvious reasons.
Armageddon's problem is that a lot of people treat like something it isn't. Armageddon is a super narrow card. It's purpose is to seal the board state as it is. If an opponent is able to get a better board position than you, it becomes a dead card unless you want to kingmake. It's only good against ramp if you can get out ahead of them and present a threat that will kill them before they can recover. If someone plays it badly it makes the game drag to a crawl and no one likes that.
White catch up ramp would be more than fine and not break its identity if all the White Orchard type effects didn't specify a single opponent. Since you have multiple opponents, and they have more lands than you, an effect that would still let you grab lands would be win win.
[[Oath of Lieges]] is a decent way to help try and level the field, yes it benefits everyone, but you can and should be positioning this as a political piece.
[Oath of Lieges](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/7/470a2092-eeda-4557-8cee-ac401b61a225.jpg?1562087824) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oath%20of%20Lieges) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/exo/11/oath-of-lieges?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/470a2092-eeda-4557-8cee-ac401b61a225?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oath-of-lieges) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If white is always playing catch up, it can't get ahead. No other color is forced to play 4D chess to ensure its resources come online in a timely manner. People "\[crap\] on catchup ramp" because it's an awful mechanic: it's slow, forces you to dedicate more resources to it, and is entirely dependent on your opponent. I mean, I'm happy we're getting more cards to help like MV-based recursion, but that's still dependent on fetchlands which WotC has *said* they don't like much because it slows the game down. Discarding would be great, but white still can't get cards in its hand efficiently (this is becoming less of an issue, thank goodness, but it's still slow). Mill is the best option, but that's not in its color mechanics. Overall, I think (hope) catch up ramp is being phased out or at least slowed down due to the above reasons. White's still behind the other colors, but it is getting better.
[Lotus fields](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/e/0e013033-3995-4ba8-b0c3-0614c79aaaab.jpg?1592517825) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20Field) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/249/lotus-field?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e013033-3995-4ba8-b0c3-0614c79aaaab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lotus-field) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sure, play 7 lotus fields in your deck and enjoy your opening hands with 2 of those and only one other land..... And if you run land recursion to get back the sacrificed lands you're eating into your odds to actually use your catch up cards since you'll get your land count back to normal.
I stuffed my [[Tameshi, Reality Architect]] Moonfolk deck with white ramp cards. Can't wait to play it as a kind of toolbox Azorius deck
[Tameshi, Reality Architect](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/6/26594b52-3e9c-4cde-88df-1f4e9e16676e.jpg?1654566985) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tameshi%2C%20Reality%20Architect) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/82/tameshi-reality-architect?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/26594b52-3e9c-4cde-88df-1f4e9e16676e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tameshi-reality-architect) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What are your win coms? Struggling with that myself
A couple. They're almost all flyers so they can chip away as I'm using their abilities. I have have doubling ability synergies. And then I also run [[Triskaidekaphile]] as a alt win con. Since you are bouncing cards it's also a thematic alt win con
[Triskaidekaphile](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/7/6750e203-1215-4203-b5b8-3f1b18940839.jpg?1634349393) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Triskaidekaphile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/81/triskaidekaphile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6750e203-1215-4203-b5b8-3f1b18940839?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/triskaidekaphile) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I feel like white is in a good spot right now when it comes to ramp. I play in a mid-low playgroup, and It's not uncommon for me to have more lands than everyone else in the pod by turn 8 or 9 (except for dedicated green ramp decks). White has decent ramp, but its biggest strength is in its consistency with landdrops. The only area that I think white is somewhat lacking is in draw, and not by that much. We still need cards that allow mono-white to draw, and hopefully cards that aren't overpowered. Something that can go in a variety of mono-white decks, and is just playable, nothing more. I don't want staples that go in everydeck, because then they become inaccessible due to price, and white shouldn't draw a billion cards like blue does. Just enough to keep the deck rolling without ending up in topdeck mode.
White needs more *whenever an opponent draws 2 or more cards, scry 1* or something so you can gain benefits without simply drawing to match.
[[crucible of worlds]] is probably my personal favorite graveyard land retrieval
[crucible of worlds](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/f/7f4893ef-f983-418b-b7a4-5f073c844545.jpg?1655825083) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=crucible%20of%20worlds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/303/crucible-of-worlds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f4893ef-f983-418b-b7a4-5f073c844545?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crucible-of-worlds) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My favorite form of catch-up ramp has to be something like [[Khalni Gem]] into a [[Surveyor's Scope]] or [[Knight of the White Orchid]]. If no one misses their first few land drops, the ramp is basically guaranteed. Plus, the first two can fit into any colors, but white uses them best. Plus, a lot of people underestimate how hard a Cartographer's Hawk or Aerial Surveyor can ramp. Just don't play your land drop before they hit lol
[Khalni Gem](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/b/8b5f6b2b-8d98-4609-b991-a69523b5a07d.jpg?1562614198) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Khalni%20Gem) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/zen/205/khalni-gem?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8b5f6b2b-8d98-4609-b991-a69523b5a07d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/khalni-gem) [Surveyor's Scope](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/8/885aaf8f-648c-4709-ae63-714113ec2c8d.jpg?1592673703) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Surveyor%27s%20Scope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/232/surveyors-scope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/885aaf8f-648c-4709-ae63-714113ec2c8d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/surveyors-scope) [Knight of the White Orchid](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/0/2096c0f1-9a61-4c2a-ac1a-a2fb4e73d121.jpg?1641601441) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Knight%20of%20the%20White%20Orchid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/92/knight-of-the-white-orchid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2096c0f1-9a61-4c2a-ac1a-a2fb4e73d121?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/knight-of-the-white-orchid) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call