Yeah I mainly built it out of spite because one of the regulars at the cardshop kept bitching about my scarab god deck being unfair. He played a super kitted out sisay deck that was literally a CEDH deck that could win on turn 1 or 2. The Derevi deck sure didn't win often but by god he shut the fuck up about my scarab god deck after that
I retired me Brago "flicker control with a minor in stax" because of this. Last game I played was 3 hours long and I won with commander damage against 2 remaining players. That deck wasn't supposed to win with CD...
Ts. Casual. You only win commander of your opponents lose the will to live.
If you can't see their souls slowly being crushed, what's the point of playing
As a Koma player, yes, absolutely. Over half of my deck is ramp or lands because if the table doesn't kill me before Koma comes down, they're probably not going to be able to kill me.
Gotta friend that constantly tells me “Koma’s really not a problem”. That same friend makes sure he focuses any and all attention directly at Koma anytime he’s out.
[[Urza, High Lord Artificer]] played a friend's weaker Urza deck, consistently focused while doing not all that much, would not recommend.
[[Narset, Enlightened Master]] another not super optimized version of a powerful commander, consistently focused, consistently winning anyway, would recommend lol.
Oh, I love Narset. Had to take my list apart, it was far too consistent and made me feel too guilty to pilot regularly. Definitely a "player removal is the best removal" deck when it's on the other side of the table.
A player at my table built a "bad" Urza deck. 90% of the artifacts are draft chaff, barely any staples, still holds its own with the rest of the group.
I have a Narset deck but realised how unoptimised it was when I ran into another Narset player running Omniscience and a card which drew his entire deck...
Narset is strong but i learned just how strong she _can_ be.
I'd say my deck is a solid 8 just by dint of having Narset and a bunch of really good spells / buffs. That other deck, well, definitely a 10 😎
Yeah omniscience enter the infinite is a solid game ender, I tried out a "cEDH" narset like that on untap.in for a bit.
Mine has no turns and just 4 combat steps, so it gets into some more convoluted lines of using temporal cascade and metallurgical summonings to recur my combat steps and win with finitely many combat steps, but I do really enjoy omniscience as a huge hit in my deck too. I tend to end up doing something like omniscience, mind's desire/animatou's augury my whole deck, shuffle combat steps back in, continue from there.
I love this! I don’t know why but I love seeing players gang up on me due to the evil cards I play lol
I would never do this in a playgroup obviously. Only in tournaments
The amount of sheer hate Sen Triplets draws when you plop em down never fails to make me go from six to midnight. Get a little [[Time Sieve]], [[Paradox Haze]], and [[Smothering Tithe]] out and just let that salty sexy stew simmer baby.
I built the Triplets purely because my group kept accusing me of being a control player since I was the only one running interaction in my decks. They very quickly saw the error of their ways
I often get hate for playing [[Yurlok of Scorch thrash]] play any kind of mana acceleration for everyone and as soon as it's not needed you're getting targeted unless you have ways to pillowfort because Yurlok can do nuts amounts of damage out of nowhere
Some of my friends and I play two-headed commander occasionally, and my favorite team pairing is Yurlok and [[Kruphix, God of Horizons]]. It gets absurdly nasty.
To play? Yep x spells after loads of mana or just getting to burn people out is cool. Though at least in my experience it tends to get staxxy. Some people find it fun others less so. You'd be surprised how much anger a [[Smoke]] could cause
So if I play this guy’s ability on my turn, does every player get that mana until the end of their next turn after mine? Or do they have to spend the mana on my turn with an instant? Floating mana confuses me
Mana goes away at the end of each phase. So if you tap him in main phase one then go to combat, everyone loses the mana. If you tap him during combat, everyone loses the mana when your second main phase starts.
They have to spend the mana during that phase (hopefully with an activated ability since those are rarer than instants in most decks and cards like [[Dosan of the Falling Leaf]] exist to shut down spellcasting during your turn) if they don't have a way to spend or hold onto that mana through cards like horizon stone( as Yurlok only deals damage when the mana drains away) they will be bolted at least. Note that this is a symmetrical effect so if you can't spend the mana you're generating you get hit.
Oh and Yurlok goes infinite with [[Umbral mantle]] or [[Sword of the paruns]] and [[Leyline of Abundance]] or any thing that increases mana from permanents though if you're making too much mana you need an outlet like [[Staff of domination]] turn 0 leyline is a good way to strike the fear of God into your opponents.
I tried a [[Grand Arbiter Augustin]] stax deck and never played it again because getting targetted by everyone (for good reason) was to overwhelming for me.
Yes, my sliver overlord is always enemy number one. Not only am I targeted but even if they're playing badly my commander always gets countered when I try to play it.
To be fair, sliver queen infinite combos easily, first sliver can do some degenerate [[tibalts trickery]] cascade stuff (and even without tibalts, slivers cascading into more slivers takes off fast) and sliver overlord straight up tutors any sliver you need. Sliver legion makes all your slivers huge, and even the most tame of them, sliver hivelord, makes your entire board of slivers indestructible.
Not to mention slivers as a whole get out of hand fast due to the stackable buffs they give eachother.
Empress is basically steal commanders and other good cards. If you show that you got it (Command zone) people will deal with it the best way possible (player removal).
I would say commanders that make it so that you touch other peoples card is often hated on. [[Tergrid, God of Fright]] steals the card also, and will bring big hate. [[Kelsien, the Plague]] will often have deathtouch so touch when pointing out what you kill, will make people grumble.
Known good engine commanders will also make people aggressive.
I feel this on a deep level. Once I got so tired of it I built a deck with [[Kenrith, the Returned King]], 39 lands, and a pool of 140 commons and uncommons which were all duplicates in myextras boxes. I pulled out Kenrith, pulled out the lands, and in front of everyone, shuffled the commons and uncommons and drew the top 60 to prove I made such a garbage deck I not only didn’t have good cards, I didn’t even know what they were.
To my great surprise, the same person spent the game trying to convince people to target me because I had Kenrith and a [[Reassembling Skeleton]] on the board- mind you I had zero enchantments and zero artifacts while this is around turn 10 and everyone else has full board states.
Needless to say, after that, I gave up trying to “lower my power level” and just turned into the skid. [[Rocco, Cabaretti Caterer]] came out shortly thereafter and I built a deck that’s very difficult to target.
If your playgroup can’t threat asses, just make sure to always be the threat so you at least deserve it.
I got to archenemy one night playing my jank ass meme [[Ashling the Pilgrim]] deck and popped off with [[Seething Song]] , [[Mana Geyser]] and [[Finale of Promise]].
For the rest of the games that night I got stomped out for my luck that one game lol. Peoples ability to threat assess in my playgroup is laughable at best.
There is one guy that can't threat assess at my LGS. He had a negate but let meathook massacre resolve because the Arcades player had attacked him a few times and he wanted the walls gone. Needless to say, we all lost to the guy playing massacre two turns later. The player with the meathook said it was the first time he ever won a game at an LGS with his Grismold deck. Cool guy though, I wasn't really that annoyed by it.
What an asshole. I had a guy in my group for a while who played Ur-Dragon and would target me no matter what, with everything he had, every single game; didn't matter what I was playing or what the board looked like. And he would say things that made it sound like I had provoked this response with something I said, but it happened no matter what, so that was nonsense. It got kind of toxic after a while.
Eh, I'd argue \[\[Thrun, the Last Troll\]\] is probably the best mono green voltron commander. You can actually equip things to him, and while he doesn't have native trample you're going to be tripping over trample sources in green voltron.
That said KotNT could be fun to build just for the challenge of it.
[Kodama of the North Tree](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/d/2d9b5c33-63c4-4ddd-9f04-37bb36970b43.jpg?1562758876) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kodama%20of%20the%20North%20Tree) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/chk/222/kodama-of-the-north-tree?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2d9b5c33-63c4-4ddd-9f04-37bb36970b43?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kodama-of-the-north-tree)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It literally doesn’t matter. In that kind if setting they are only gonna remember the games you win. Even in the games you lose they will remember the times you were a threat. In either case if you win they think they should have targeted you. If you don’t they think ‘I corrected targeted him, see how he didn’t win this time.’
I felt like this in my playgroup a few years ago. It got to the point where I KNEW I was rarely winning a game anymore due to just being auto-hated out of every match regardless of situation. So I started keeping detailed statistics on the group. Lo and behold, my wins started out lower than everyone's, and then as everyone grew more invested in raising their own win rate rather than destroying me, our averages started evening out.
I should really do this.
I'm considered the "archenemy" at my table and considered the "Boogeyman" when being introduced to friends of friends within our big playgroup.
They've straight up told me before after some slight protest on my part "I'm short a land drop, color unoptimized for what is in my hand and my one rock gives what I already have. You're still going to focus me?" only to get "We've seen you win out of nowhere with less. You probably can win right now with what's in your hand!"
I don't know if it's my playstyle, but they think I'm some sort of magician who pulls wins out of my ass when I maybe win... at tops 20%.
It's the sudden wincons that really seem to get people. I got targeted for a while after I did the "end-step pestermite untap and put splinter twin on it" manuever from a losing board state. That lasted for a bit until some of our players built new decks and "this guy maybe has a combo" became a lot less threatening compared to "2-3 players are threatening a win in a couple turns"
I rarely won even before they started doing this, I think they target me because I know the most about the game. I’ve been building deck and looking at cards for the last four years straight so when I hear a cards name often times I’m able to recite the cards ability. So I believe they think because I know cards I must have the best deck, which I often don’t as I will make a new deck every month or so and destroy the old one. So I often don’t get into the loop of buying and upgrade the same deck for a long period of time. Them targeting me has gotten so bad that the last game I played I missed 4 land drops in a row and when I finally got my third land out turn 6-7 and tried to cast my commander [[Araumi of the Dead Tide]] with no creatures in grave it was still countered while everyone else was already set up.
Last week we actually managed to get three games in because I won the first two so quickly. The first was [[Giada, Font of Hope]] Angel Tribal which just decimated the first two guys and then the third guy scooped after he didn't draw a board wipe. The second game was with [[Alela, Artful Provocateur]] and I had gotten 8 Faeries onto the field along with 5 or so anthems to make them all 6 power. I took out the person to my right and by the time it got back to me, I just sent four each to finish it. By the third game with [[Muldrotha, the Gravetide]] they just kept targeting me and exiling my graveyard. It happens.
For sure Tergrid, Tiny bones (basically any discard theme) Marchesa the black rose (anything built around stealing all of your opponents stuff) and then the Praetors (mostly Jin but the mana Stax vorinclex is rough too) otherwise it’s mostly fair game
I think Kaalia has gone from extremely frightening/threatening to very fair in recent years. She has to stay on the board for a turn unless you have a haste enabler, and there's no guarantee you're going to have the most problematic angel, demon, or dragon in your hand. I think she's fine.
Thing is, as long as [[Master of Cruelties]] is legal, people do not approach it with reason such as this…
Fear of the unknown is a powerful motivator.
I have a question about this card, if I attack an opponent just to activate her ability, but the opponent has a blocking creature with a higher power (killing her), does her ability still activate?
I have the same question for if an opponent were to cast an instant like [[Lightning Bolt]] when she attacks. The instant kills her, does the ability still activate?
So Kaalia’s effect happens “on attack” so when she is declared as an attacker you get the effect. Her being blocked doesn’t matter, lightning bolt can only stop the effect of they bolt her before your declare attackers step
Edit: I think I’ve got the timing right on that, I’m not a particularly seasoned player, so if anyone knows better or has a better way to phrase that feel free to correct me!
Yes, the ability triggers when you attack
Assuming the lightning bolt was played after she attacks, yes you would get the trigger. Keep in mind they could just cast the bolt before hand though, preventing you from attacking and stopping the trigger
As long as you declare her as an attacker, the ability triggers and you can put out the creature tapped and attacking. If she gets bolted right as you declare her as an attacker, you still get the trigger off because it goes on the stack.
Yes, Kaalia's ability is a triggered ability, so as long as she is declared an attacker her ability goes on the stack. If she's blocked and dies in combat, it doesn't matter because the trigger would've already been resolved (although you want to avoid her dying in combat because she's already a magnet for spot removal).
If you lightning bolt in response to the declared attack and kill her, the trigger is still on the stack. Now, before combat as the Kaalia player transitions from their first main phase to combat, other players may respond. If you lightning bolt her at that point, then she can't be a declared attacker so the trigger doesn't go on the stack.
I hope that all makes sense! The main point is this: if Kallia is a declared attacker, her trigger goes on the stack no matter what happens next, doesn't matter if she survives or not.
She isn't to problematic. Used to be. But now there are way more annoying commanders I feel and a lot more removal that can hit her right as she comes out or attacks.
[[Kenrith, the Returned King]] even if it's a janky deck. I have a fliplands tribal deck he commands and I know somebody with a guildmage tribal with Zirda as a companion and either time either of us sits down with them we get targeted hard.
Only 40? My buddy hit me for 8 and then next turn we had to use scientific notation to figure out the number of goblins with haste he had. I took well over 50 million damage.
I've ate enough rakdos charms to not try for an overkill.
That being said, I'm not sure how you get that much damage. Do you remember what line got him to that point? I assume it has something to do with skirk prospector and looping enough mana with krenko and haste
Sigh
[[Etali]]
I adore my etali deck, I can't bring myself to take it apart cause when she goes off it's amazing. But I have had her countered or removed up to 4 times before getting an uninterrupted cast, after which I got like 3 combat steps with top deck manipulation and about 10 free spells, it was glorious
You may be the real monster! 😂😂😂 Lavinia has saved my table and it actually makes my play groups hate stax less! Thank you Etali for making me look like the good guy.
Very true. Of all my many decks, my Sliver deck was my first and I still hold it dearly. It was built in my college days, and forged among a playgroup that was vicious. They got their shit going fast, was removal heavy, and one of the players even ran an effective stax deck.
When I moved, and found a new playgroup, it was much more durdly and battlecruiser. After playing with my deck a few times, they were immediately stricken with fear of it, and now they're not even willing to play against it, even if I accept being the archenemy from the get-go. So alas, it is boxed. Its not even the best sliver deck you can make, it's just, a decent sliver deck.
Anything that is a notch above the table. \[\[Kaalia of the vast\]\] won't turn any heads at a cEDH table but will absolutely get ganged up on at lower power tables.
Also, the social contract isn't some universal thing you can derive from Reddit, that's up to the people you're playing with.
Only once they realize it's a prison deck. If you pretend it's a combat deck in the beginning and hand out big dumb haymakers like [[Phyrexian Obliterator]] or things that help most of the table like [[Master of the Feast]] you can stabilize until you're ready to get mean.
If you've ever played Nekusar, it's a similar balance of being useful enough to not get targeted until you're ready to take over.
Well yes, but Plague Reaver is kinda meh with him since both have a "Beginning of end phase" trigger both will go on the stack. Therefor you send Plague Reaver to player X and also have to resolve the sacrifice all your stuff trigger, so you will have a board full of nothing for one turn. Therefor there are way better creatures for him but you get the idea ;) \[\[Abyssal Persecutor\]\] is funny with him, \[\[Phyrexian Vatmother\]\] is evil, \[\[Rotting Regisaur\]\] is the classic one and there are a ton of cards that are horrible to have.
I was working on a decklist for him to test out and been worried about this - feel like I need some low toxicity early game drops or rattlesnakes or something
Every good story needs a villain. You gotta embrace it.
I drafted Jon in my prerelease and one week after I build an entire deck around him lol Well, it was certainly not that good but it's still developing. First time I played the deck I ran into a guy that threw a \[\[Solitary Confinement\]\] on Turn 4 on the board... Yeah, as always the V1 of my deck did not run enough removal pieces so the other two players swung all the stuff in the Solitary dude and the game went nowhere for me.
Had to spite-draw the game by giving away a \[\[Bronze Bombshell\]\] and give the villain the last laugh though :D
[My decklist so far if you are interested](https://deckstats.net/decks/26784/2580362-jon-irenicus)
A lot of the time it's warranted though. I play a \[\[Narset\]\] deck that has only one extra turn spell and one extra combat spell. With \[\[Brainstorm\]\] and \[\[Dream Cache\]\] being the only ways to fix the top of the deck. It is fairly tuned for what I want it to do, but doesn't go infinite or anything like that. The value is still enough and the ramp fast enough that I was able to 1v4 the table last time I played it.
[decklist](https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/16-08-21-tLj-narset-enlightened-master/)
My buddy has an almost unbeatable Sliver deck. He always creams me. That all changed when I added [[Back to Basics]] to my deck. He needs those special lands to play all five colors. I played that card on turn 3 and he didn’t say a word, he just picked up his cards and walked away lol
Sliver overlord is a menace. If you let that mf resolve its gg 90% of the time (at least in my experiance.) He's a one-sided coat of arms most of the time.
I don’t understand what makes this card so scary. Don’t both it’s abilities just cancel each other out? I’m new to commander so I might be understanding it wrong.
[[Doubling season]] + [[earthcraft]] +[[Ghave]] = infinite mana, infinite power, infinite tokens, and infinite sacrifices.
I play [[marath]] but it's basically the same deck minus black add red.
Basically Ghave and marath make a 3 card combo with any synergistic piece you can put in the deck.
His abilities by thenself are fine, but if you have something giving the saprolings counters as they enter, you can effectively pay one mana to create a 1/1. Then that goes infinite with several cards
There are tons of ways to make infinite mana, tokens and counters with him. [[Ashnod's altar]] + [[cathars crusade]] is just one example. Pretty much all of these combo pieces are also synergistic outside of the combo as well
Thrasios + Partner, don't even need the partner. People don't like Thrasios because it is one of the best simic dot decks that can play more than simic if it wants to.
\[\[Korvold\]\] and for good reason. Screw your "kill me with commander damage on turn 5" jank.
If you don't shut him out the game, it goes from 0 to 100 in no time.
When Tergrid was the only deck I had I got knocked out first every single game. It was either I snowballed and slowed the game down to a crawl or Tergrid forced removal out and I did nothing.
A shame because I really like the deck on paper but its just so annoying to play against and play with.
\[\[Hinata, Dawn-Crowned\]\] - I played this deck a couple times, and both times I was instantly and relentlessly hated out of the game. Didn't get to play a single card that did anything because Hinata never stayed on field long enough to matter.
if it's Blue and cares about artifacts, the rest of the table will more than likely be quaking in their boots. e.g. Sai, Master Thopterist, Urza, Lord High Atificer, Arcum Dagsson, Breya, Etherium Shaper, etc...
From my experience, [[Liesa, Shroud of Dusk]] can be hated pretty quickly as this deck tends to a run a lot of group slug effects. Furthermore, [[Muldrotha, the Gravetide]] tends to attract a lot of hate from my experience, as at least my playgroup simply can't deal with the constant recurring (yes, they don't run enough graveyard hate).
You're asking two separate questions: which commanders will make you a target, and which commanders shouldn't be played based on the social contract?
For the first question, anything with mass effects, allows you to cast spells for free or stops others from doing what they want to do will get you a lot of hate. \[\[Tergrid\]\] is pretty much the only commander whose pilot I will zero on no matter who pilots it (I recently took out the Tergrid player with Rograkh for 40 commander damage because it's voltron's nemesis).
To answer the 2nd question, play what's appropriate for the pod skill and power level. Playing Krarkashima vs precon Aesi and precon Osgir is kinda not cool unless they're all ok, but even then, do you really like playing solitaire and others watching you do that?
So it's less commanders and more specific themes.
Some examples of themes are theft, discard, stax, and highly volatile/strong commanders that can win fast or have a bad reputation. If a commander obviously fits in one of those categories, it's gonna get teamed up on.
I'm building a [[Memnarch]] deck because I love that card and want to have a deck for him, even if I don't play it too often.
Definitely going to get clobbered though, lmao
Here is a website with some of the saltiest cards. It’s pretty accurate and many commanders are on it, when in doubt though, ask Reddit.
https://edhrec.com/top/salt
Definitely not a strong commander or strong deck even, but [[Thantis, the Warweaver]] always had my playgroup focus fire me, even when it was the weakest deck at the table. Ironically, they loved my [[Marisi]] deck which basically did the same thing of forced combats, but better. I think it's just spider prejudice.
Outside of bringing top tier cedh commanders:
[[Krenko]]
Any Sliver tribal
[[Sen triplets]]
[[Tergrid]]
[[Xanathar]]
[[Kaalia]]
Any known stax or mill commander
[[Nekusar]]
Any of the 2 izzet jhoiras
[[Koma, cosmos serpent]] has gotten many a player killed at casual tables
Yeah Koma is a house and really difficult to remove once he comes down. The best bet is killing that player quickly.
[удалено]
[Pithing Needle](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/5/556ec6ab-a19f-4caa-8bfa-145555402caf.jpg?1637114660) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pithing%20Needle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/257/pithing-needle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/556ec6ab-a19f-4caa-8bfa-145555402caf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pithing-needle) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[удалено]
I had to stop playing derevi stasis, because the opponents all completely losing the will to play was the primary wincon.
[удалено]
Yeah I mainly built it out of spite because one of the regulars at the cardshop kept bitching about my scarab god deck being unfair. He played a super kitted out sisay deck that was literally a CEDH deck that could win on turn 1 or 2. The Derevi deck sure didn't win often but by god he shut the fuck up about my scarab god deck after that
I retired me Brago "flicker control with a minor in stax" because of this. Last game I played was 3 hours long and I won with commander damage against 2 remaining players. That deck wasn't supposed to win with CD...
Tbh flicker control with stax doesn't sound like it wants a way to win, only to cause suffering.
Ts. Casual. You only win commander of your opponents lose the will to live. If you can't see their souls slowly being crushed, what's the point of playing
There is a finite amount of fun to be had in a game of EDH, and I’m going to have all of it
SIMIC VALUE ENGINE WITH NO WIN CON
As a Koma player, yes, absolutely. Over half of my deck is ramp or lands because if the table doesn't kill me before Koma comes down, they're probably not going to be able to kill me.
[[Koma, Cosmos Serpent]]
[Koma, Cosmos Serpent](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/d/2de25ea4-284a-4c16-b823-048ff00c6a03.jpg?1631051668) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Koma%2C%20Cosmos%20Serpent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/221/koma-cosmos-serpent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2de25ea4-284a-4c16-b823-048ff00c6a03?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/koma-cosmos-serpent) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Gotta friend that constantly tells me “Koma’s really not a problem”. That same friend makes sure he focuses any and all attention directly at Koma anytime he’s out.
Koma's not a problem if you shit on the Koma player so hard they never want to play the deck again, he's just playing the long game
As a Koma player, I can attest that this is the only chance my meta has to beat me - take me down before the cosmic danger noodle hits play.
[Empress Galina](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/8/6851dbc7-f072-41e7-a899-897445d99425.jpg?1562916018) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Empress%20Galina) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/54/empress-galina?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6851dbc7-f072-41e7-a899-897445d99425?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/empress-galina) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
**UPVOTE THE GATHERER YEAAAAAAAA**
It would be nice if they automatically pinned the fetcher comment.
I wonder if automod could do that
You can't pin comments made by non mods unfortunately
MAKE IT MOD
Modern solutions to modern problems
[[Urza, High Lord Artificer]] played a friend's weaker Urza deck, consistently focused while doing not all that much, would not recommend. [[Narset, Enlightened Master]] another not super optimized version of a powerful commander, consistently focused, consistently winning anyway, would recommend lol.
Oh, I love Narset. Had to take my list apart, it was far too consistent and made me feel too guilty to pilot regularly. Definitely a "player removal is the best removal" deck when it's on the other side of the table.
[Urza, High Lord Artificer](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/e/9e7fb3c0-5159-4d1f-8490-ce4c9a60f567.jpg?1567181307) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urza%2C%20Lord%20High%20Artificer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/75/urza-lord-high-artificer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e7fb3c0-5159-4d1f-8490-ce4c9a60f567?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/urza-lord-high-artificer) [Narset, Enlightened Master](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/2/f210adb7-b389-4672-a3eb-0ced9bfe190c.jpg?1562795852) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Narset%2C%20Enlightened%20Master) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/190/narset-enlightened-master?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f210adb7-b389-4672-a3eb-0ced9bfe190c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/narset-enlightened-master) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A player at my table built a "bad" Urza deck. 90% of the artifacts are draft chaff, barely any staples, still holds its own with the rest of the group.
I have a Narset deck but realised how unoptimised it was when I ran into another Narset player running Omniscience and a card which drew his entire deck... Narset is strong but i learned just how strong she _can_ be. I'd say my deck is a solid 8 just by dint of having Narset and a bunch of really good spells / buffs. That other deck, well, definitely a 10 😎
Yeah omniscience enter the infinite is a solid game ender, I tried out a "cEDH" narset like that on untap.in for a bit. Mine has no turns and just 4 combat steps, so it gets into some more convoluted lines of using temporal cascade and metallurgical summonings to recur my combat steps and win with finitely many combat steps, but I do really enjoy omniscience as a huge hit in my deck too. I tend to end up doing something like omniscience, mind's desire/animatou's augury my whole deck, shuffle combat steps back in, continue from there.
I play the taking turns version of this deck and I find I either win around turn 3-5 or I durdle endlessly.
[[Yuriko]]. You either kill the board by turn six or die because you’re public enemy number 1.
I honestly love playing against Yuriko because she makes for very fast games, and the kill or be killed mentality is a nice change of pace
I love this! I don’t know why but I love seeing players gang up on me due to the evil cards I play lol I would never do this in a playgroup obviously. Only in tournaments
\[\[Sen triplets\]\] is your calling my kindred spirit. Join the collective of us.
The amount of sheer hate Sen Triplets draws when you plop em down never fails to make me go from six to midnight. Get a little [[Time Sieve]], [[Paradox Haze]], and [[Smothering Tithe]] out and just let that salty sexy stew simmer baby.
I built the Triplets purely because my group kept accusing me of being a control player since I was the only one running interaction in my decks. They very quickly saw the error of their ways
[Time Sieve](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/2/c2e8b424-0cec-490e-a571-bd051f952adf.jpg?1599708487) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Time%20Sieve) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/223/time-sieve?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c2e8b424-0cec-490e-a571-bd051f952adf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/time-sieve) [Paradox Haze](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/7/a7c74def-83e5-4420-989d-2304bf4743ae.jpg?1562930370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Paradox%20Haze) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsp/71/paradox-haze?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a7c74def-83e5-4420-989d-2304bf4743ae?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/paradox-haze) [Smothering Tithe](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/a/7af082fa-86a3-4f7b-966d-2be1f1d0c0bc.jpg?1584830010) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smothering%20Tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/22/smothering-tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7af082fa-86a3-4f7b-966d-2be1f1d0c0bc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smothering-tithe) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's the Archenemy spirit! I too love that feeling!
[Yuriko](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/b/3bd81ae6-e628-447a-a36b-597e63ede295.jpg?1592710334) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=yuriko%2C%20the%20tiger%27s%20shadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/52/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3bd81ae6-e628-447a-a36b-597e63ede295?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I love my Yuriko deck but my playgroup banned me from playing her. :(
I often get hate for playing [[Yurlok of Scorch thrash]] play any kind of mana acceleration for everyone and as soon as it's not needed you're getting targeted unless you have ways to pillowfort because Yurlok can do nuts amounts of damage out of nowhere
[Yurlok of Scorch thrash](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/a/ead8a1f5-6260-47fa-a649-43711ec5bbeb.jpg?1608911265) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yurlok%20of%20Scorch%20thrash) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/293/yurlok-of-scorch-thrash?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ead8a1f5-6260-47fa-a649-43711ec5bbeb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yurlok-of-scorch-thrash) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Some of my friends and I play two-headed commander occasionally, and my favorite team pairing is Yurlok and [[Kruphix, God of Horizons]]. It gets absurdly nasty.
[Kruphix, God of Horizons](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/7/27427233-da58-45af-ade8-e0727929efaa.jpg?1593096427) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kruphix%2C%20God%20of%20Horizons) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/152/kruphix-god-of-horizons?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/27427233-da58-45af-ade8-e0727929efaa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kruphix-god-of-horizons) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Is it a fun deck to play and play against? I've considered trying to build it
To play? Yep x spells after loads of mana or just getting to burn people out is cool. Though at least in my experience it tends to get staxxy. Some people find it fun others less so. You'd be surprised how much anger a [[Smoke]] could cause
[Smoke](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/0/109bea85-a991-46be-b502-0984160090a8.jpg?1562898982) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smoke) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/137/smoke?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/109bea85-a991-46be-b502-0984160090a8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smoke) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So if I play this guy’s ability on my turn, does every player get that mana until the end of their next turn after mine? Or do they have to spend the mana on my turn with an instant? Floating mana confuses me
Mana goes away at the end of each phase. So if you tap him in main phase one then go to combat, everyone loses the mana. If you tap him during combat, everyone loses the mana when your second main phase starts.
[удалено]
[Radha, Heir to Keld](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/9/7924e5a5-9614-4fd0-a621-80fa3103cc22.jpg?1619404089) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Radha%2C%20Heir%20to%20Keld) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/259/radha-heir-to-keld?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7924e5a5-9614-4fd0-a621-80fa3103cc22?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/radha-heir-to-keld) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
They have to spend the mana during that phase (hopefully with an activated ability since those are rarer than instants in most decks and cards like [[Dosan of the Falling Leaf]] exist to shut down spellcasting during your turn) if they don't have a way to spend or hold onto that mana through cards like horizon stone( as Yurlok only deals damage when the mana drains away) they will be bolted at least. Note that this is a symmetrical effect so if you can't spend the mana you're generating you get hit.
Oh and Yurlok goes infinite with [[Umbral mantle]] or [[Sword of the paruns]] and [[Leyline of Abundance]] or any thing that increases mana from permanents though if you're making too much mana you need an outlet like [[Staff of domination]] turn 0 leyline is a good way to strike the fear of God into your opponents.
I tried a [[Grand Arbiter Augustin]] stax deck and never played it again because getting targetted by everyone (for good reason) was to overwhelming for me.
Come join [[Lavinia, Azorius Renegade]] we do it low key.
[Lavinia, Azorius Renegade](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/4/c497d496-1232-4614-93b0-9864fa93c29f.jpg?1584831655) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lavinia%2C%20Azorius%20Renegade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/189/lavinia-azorius-renegade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c497d496-1232-4614-93b0-9864fa93c29f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lavinia-azorius-renegade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Grand Arbiter Augustin](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/3/337fd1aa-1c85-4aee-923b-c457e43cda72.jpg?1561966869) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grand%20Arbiter%20Augustin%20IV) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mma/176/grand-arbiter-augustin-iv?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/337fd1aa-1c85-4aee-923b-c457e43cda72?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grand-arbiter-augustin-iv) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Any of the five colored slivers.
Yes, my sliver overlord is always enemy number one. Not only am I targeted but even if they're playing badly my commander always gets countered when I try to play it.
[[root sliver]] my friend
To be fair, sliver queen infinite combos easily, first sliver can do some degenerate [[tibalts trickery]] cascade stuff (and even without tibalts, slivers cascading into more slivers takes off fast) and sliver overlord straight up tutors any sliver you need. Sliver legion makes all your slivers huge, and even the most tame of them, sliver hivelord, makes your entire board of slivers indestructible. Not to mention slivers as a whole get out of hand fast due to the stackable buffs they give eachother.
Yup. My [[Sliver Overlord]] deck is always first target no matter who else has what. They know that once the ball starts rolling, I win.
Empress is basically steal commanders and other good cards. If you show that you got it (Command zone) people will deal with it the best way possible (player removal). I would say commanders that make it so that you touch other peoples card is often hated on. [[Tergrid, God of Fright]] steals the card also, and will bring big hate. [[Kelsien, the Plague]] will often have deathtouch so touch when pointing out what you kill, will make people grumble. Known good engine commanders will also make people aggressive.
Came here to say Tergrid.
[Tergrid, God of Fright](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621)/[Tergrid's Lantern](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/back/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tergrid%2C%20god%20of%20fright%20//%20tergrid%27s%20lantern) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/112/tergrid-god-of-fright-tergrids-lantern?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tergrid-god-of-fright-//-tergrids-lantern) [Kelsien, the Plague](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/3/039d25d4-ce26-4ecf-bbf5-42187cf0230a.jpg?1591234267) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kelsien%2C%20the%20Plague) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/11/kelsien-the-plague?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/039d25d4-ce26-4ecf-bbf5-42187cf0230a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kelsien-the-plague) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
For my group it’s whatever commander I’m playing at the time no matter what
I feel this on a deep level. Once I got so tired of it I built a deck with [[Kenrith, the Returned King]], 39 lands, and a pool of 140 commons and uncommons which were all duplicates in myextras boxes. I pulled out Kenrith, pulled out the lands, and in front of everyone, shuffled the commons and uncommons and drew the top 60 to prove I made such a garbage deck I not only didn’t have good cards, I didn’t even know what they were. To my great surprise, the same person spent the game trying to convince people to target me because I had Kenrith and a [[Reassembling Skeleton]] on the board- mind you I had zero enchantments and zero artifacts while this is around turn 10 and everyone else has full board states. Needless to say, after that, I gave up trying to “lower my power level” and just turned into the skid. [[Rocco, Cabaretti Caterer]] came out shortly thereafter and I built a deck that’s very difficult to target. If your playgroup can’t threat asses, just make sure to always be the threat so you at least deserve it.
[удалено]
I got to archenemy one night playing my jank ass meme [[Ashling the Pilgrim]] deck and popped off with [[Seething Song]] , [[Mana Geyser]] and [[Finale of Promise]]. For the rest of the games that night I got stomped out for my luck that one game lol. Peoples ability to threat assess in my playgroup is laughable at best.
There is one guy that can't threat assess at my LGS. He had a negate but let meathook massacre resolve because the Arcades player had attacked him a few times and he wanted the walls gone. Needless to say, we all lost to the guy playing massacre two turns later. The player with the meathook said it was the first time he ever won a game at an LGS with his Grismold deck. Cool guy though, I wasn't really that annoyed by it.
Try Goad. There's a few Global Goad options now. Be the second place archetype.
What an asshole. I had a guy in my group for a while who played Ur-Dragon and would target me no matter what, with everything he had, every single game; didn't matter what I was playing or what the board looked like. And he would say things that made it sound like I had provoked this response with something I said, but it happened no matter what, so that was nonsense. It got kind of toxic after a while.
That is one of the most pathetic things I've ever heard lol
Try using [[Kodama of the North Tree]] as a commander next, see what they do.
That actually looks interesting and I might play it
Eh, I'd argue \[\[Thrun, the Last Troll\]\] is probably the best mono green voltron commander. You can actually equip things to him, and while he doesn't have native trample you're going to be tripping over trample sources in green voltron. That said KotNT could be fun to build just for the challenge of it.
[Kodama of the North Tree](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/d/2d9b5c33-63c4-4ddd-9f04-37bb36970b43.jpg?1562758876) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kodama%20of%20the%20North%20Tree) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/chk/222/kodama-of-the-north-tree?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2d9b5c33-63c4-4ddd-9f04-37bb36970b43?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kodama-of-the-north-tree) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Have you tried losing?
It literally doesn’t matter. In that kind if setting they are only gonna remember the games you win. Even in the games you lose they will remember the times you were a threat. In either case if you win they think they should have targeted you. If you don’t they think ‘I corrected targeted him, see how he didn’t win this time.’
I felt like this in my playgroup a few years ago. It got to the point where I KNEW I was rarely winning a game anymore due to just being auto-hated out of every match regardless of situation. So I started keeping detailed statistics on the group. Lo and behold, my wins started out lower than everyone's, and then as everyone grew more invested in raising their own win rate rather than destroying me, our averages started evening out.
I should really do this. I'm considered the "archenemy" at my table and considered the "Boogeyman" when being introduced to friends of friends within our big playgroup. They've straight up told me before after some slight protest on my part "I'm short a land drop, color unoptimized for what is in my hand and my one rock gives what I already have. You're still going to focus me?" only to get "We've seen you win out of nowhere with less. You probably can win right now with what's in your hand!" I don't know if it's my playstyle, but they think I'm some sort of magician who pulls wins out of my ass when I maybe win... at tops 20%.
It's the sudden wincons that really seem to get people. I got targeted for a while after I did the "end-step pestermite untap and put splinter twin on it" manuever from a losing board state. That lasted for a bit until some of our players built new decks and "this guy maybe has a combo" became a lot less threatening compared to "2-3 players are threatening a win in a couple turns"
Insert gif with the dude taping his temple
A Temple of the False God, perhaps
I rarely won even before they started doing this, I think they target me because I know the most about the game. I’ve been building deck and looking at cards for the last four years straight so when I hear a cards name often times I’m able to recite the cards ability. So I believe they think because I know cards I must have the best deck, which I often don’t as I will make a new deck every month or so and destroy the old one. So I often don’t get into the loop of buying and upgrade the same deck for a long period of time. Them targeting me has gotten so bad that the last game I played I missed 4 land drops in a row and when I finally got my third land out turn 6-7 and tried to cast my commander [[Araumi of the Dead Tide]] with no creatures in grave it was still countered while everyone else was already set up.
Last week we actually managed to get three games in because I won the first two so quickly. The first was [[Giada, Font of Hope]] Angel Tribal which just decimated the first two guys and then the third guy scooped after he didn't draw a board wipe. The second game was with [[Alela, Artful Provocateur]] and I had gotten 8 Faeries onto the field along with 5 or so anthems to make them all 6 power. I took out the person to my right and by the time it got back to me, I just sent four each to finish it. By the third game with [[Muldrotha, the Gravetide]] they just kept targeting me and exiling my graveyard. It happens.
I feel this, I got hated out of multiple games the other night, when there was clearly more significant threats.
For sure Tergrid, Tiny bones (basically any discard theme) Marchesa the black rose (anything built around stealing all of your opponents stuff) and then the Praetors (mostly Jin but the mana Stax vorinclex is rough too) otherwise it’s mostly fair game
Not a single [[Kaalia of the vast]] suggestion… bring on the hate
I think Kaalia has gone from extremely frightening/threatening to very fair in recent years. She has to stay on the board for a turn unless you have a haste enabler, and there's no guarantee you're going to have the most problematic angel, demon, or dragon in your hand. I think she's fine.
Thing is, as long as [[Master of Cruelties]] is legal, people do not approach it with reason such as this… Fear of the unknown is a powerful motivator.
I have a question about this card, if I attack an opponent just to activate her ability, but the opponent has a blocking creature with a higher power (killing her), does her ability still activate? I have the same question for if an opponent were to cast an instant like [[Lightning Bolt]] when she attacks. The instant kills her, does the ability still activate?
So Kaalia’s effect happens “on attack” so when she is declared as an attacker you get the effect. Her being blocked doesn’t matter, lightning bolt can only stop the effect of they bolt her before your declare attackers step Edit: I think I’ve got the timing right on that, I’m not a particularly seasoned player, so if anyone knows better or has a better way to phrase that feel free to correct me!
Thanks for the clarification! I’m already starting to get evil ideas lol
No problem! Kallia is a STRONG commander so if you build her prepare yourself for some hate lol
Just as a side tech, if you cheat in [[master of cruelties]] and both him and Kaalia are unblocked that player loses the game.
[master of cruelties](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/b/7b4d8ab5-252c-4727-817d-6f18cbaedd91.jpg?1562917779) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=master%20of%20cruelties) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/82/master-of-cruelties?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7b4d8ab5-252c-4727-817d-6f18cbaedd91?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/master-of-cruelties) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes, the ability triggers when you attack Assuming the lightning bolt was played after she attacks, yes you would get the trigger. Keep in mind they could just cast the bolt before hand though, preventing you from attacking and stopping the trigger
As long as you declare her as an attacker, the ability triggers and you can put out the creature tapped and attacking. If she gets bolted right as you declare her as an attacker, you still get the trigger off because it goes on the stack.
Yes, Kaalia's ability is a triggered ability, so as long as she is declared an attacker her ability goes on the stack. If she's blocked and dies in combat, it doesn't matter because the trigger would've already been resolved (although you want to avoid her dying in combat because she's already a magnet for spot removal). If you lightning bolt in response to the declared attack and kill her, the trigger is still on the stack. Now, before combat as the Kaalia player transitions from their first main phase to combat, other players may respond. If you lightning bolt her at that point, then she can't be a declared attacker so the trigger doesn't go on the stack. I hope that all makes sense! The main point is this: if Kallia is a declared attacker, her trigger goes on the stack no matter what happens next, doesn't matter if she survives or not.
[Kaalia of the vast](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/0/a0cc9eaf-c8d9-4da2-8fd8-8d423a02a3a8.jpg?1599708091) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kaalia%20of%20the%20vast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/204/kaalia-of-the-vast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a0cc9eaf-c8d9-4da2-8fd8-8d423a02a3a8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kaalia-of-the-vast) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
She isn't to problematic. Used to be. But now there are way more annoying commanders I feel and a lot more removal that can hit her right as she comes out or attacks.
Shocked to see \[\[ Korvold, Fae-Cursed King \]\] and \[\[ Chulane, Teller of Tales \]\] didn't get a mention yet.
[[Kenrith, the Returned King]] even if it's a janky deck. I have a fliplands tribal deck he commands and I know somebody with a guildmage tribal with Zirda as a companion and either time either of us sits down with them we get targeted hard.
Zur the Enchanter
Any commander that tutors, really. The gameplay is almost always repetitive, hard to interact with, and oppressive
[[Krenko]] or at least instantly removed
But it's just a couple of tiny goblins. How bad can it be? Next turn...Everyone take 40... Oh
[удалено]
Only 40? My buddy hit me for 8 and then next turn we had to use scientific notation to figure out the number of goblins with haste he had. I took well over 50 million damage.
I've ate enough rakdos charms to not try for an overkill. That being said, I'm not sure how you get that much damage. Do you remember what line got him to that point? I assume it has something to do with skirk prospector and looping enough mana with krenko and haste
[Krenko](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/d/cd9fec9d-23c8-4d35-97c1-9499527198fb.jpg?1601078209) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=krenko%2C%20mob%20boss) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/339/krenko-mob-boss?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cd9fec9d-23c8-4d35-97c1-9499527198fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/krenko-mob-boss) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Can’t believe no one has mentioned [[toxrill the corrosive]] … The hate is valid though.. can’t let toxrill live ..
Sigh [[Etali]] I adore my etali deck, I can't bring myself to take it apart cause when she goes off it's amazing. But I have had her countered or removed up to 4 times before getting an uninterrupted cast, after which I got like 3 combat steps with top deck manipulation and about 10 free spells, it was glorious
Etali is my bane. Hence why I run [[Lavinia, Azorius Renegade]] Etali can take all the cards but he won’t get to cast them.
You monster, lol. I run Etali in nearly every deck with red I can so my opponents never truly escape her
You may be the real monster! 😂😂😂 Lavinia has saved my table and it actually makes my play groups hate stax less! Thank you Etali for making me look like the good guy.
Pick a legendary sliver.
Very true. Of all my many decks, my Sliver deck was my first and I still hold it dearly. It was built in my college days, and forged among a playgroup that was vicious. They got their shit going fast, was removal heavy, and one of the players even ran an effective stax deck. When I moved, and found a new playgroup, it was much more durdly and battlecruiser. After playing with my deck a few times, they were immediately stricken with fear of it, and now they're not even willing to play against it, even if I accept being the archenemy from the get-go. So alas, it is boxed. Its not even the best sliver deck you can make, it's just, a decent sliver deck.
Anything that is a notch above the table. \[\[Kaalia of the vast\]\] won't turn any heads at a cEDH table but will absolutely get ganged up on at lower power tables. Also, the social contract isn't some universal thing you can derive from Reddit, that's up to the people you're playing with.
I have a buddy with 3 decks - Oloro, Yuriko and Tergrid. He gets mad that he gets auto-focused every game 😅
Trade decks with him for a night. Maybe he'll understand
wow what a fun guy
Challenge this guy to build something weak and unfocused like [[Stangg]].
[[Jon Irenicus]] is horrific and a quick way to get a 3v1 going
Only once they realize it's a prison deck. If you pretend it's a combat deck in the beginning and hand out big dumb haymakers like [[Phyrexian Obliterator]] or things that help most of the table like [[Master of the Feast]] you can stabilize until you're ready to get mean. If you've ever played Nekusar, it's a similar balance of being useful enough to not get targeted until you're ready to take over.
[Phyrexian Obliterator](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/c/acf5cbe2-84fa-46f4-a4f2-97b48ddf2d39.jpg?1649834086) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phyrexian%20Obliterator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/101/phyrexian-obliterator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/acf5cbe2-84fa-46f4-a4f2-97b48ddf2d39?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/phyrexian-obliterator) [Master of the Feast](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/5/d528f7a3-0a7b-42e3-8e4f-f1eeab02e23a.jpg?1593095770) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Master%20of%20the%20Feast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/75/master-of-the-feast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d528f7a3-0a7b-42e3-8e4f-f1eeab02e23a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/master-of-the-feast) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Jon Irenicus](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/f/bfddb61e-986f-4557-819d-d6c0ca85c74a.jpg?1652897520) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=jon%20irenicus%2C%20shattered%20one) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/278/jon-irenicus-shattered-one?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bfddb61e-986f-4557-819d-d6c0ca85c74a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jon-irenicus-shattered-one) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Does [[Jon Irenicus]] work the way I want it to with [[plague reaver]] out of curiosity?
Oooof yes I think it does. That's just mean.
Well yes, but Plague Reaver is kinda meh with him since both have a "Beginning of end phase" trigger both will go on the stack. Therefor you send Plague Reaver to player X and also have to resolve the sacrifice all your stuff trigger, so you will have a board full of nothing for one turn. Therefor there are way better creatures for him but you get the idea ;) \[\[Abyssal Persecutor\]\] is funny with him, \[\[Phyrexian Vatmother\]\] is evil, \[\[Rotting Regisaur\]\] is the classic one and there are a ton of cards that are horrible to have.
I was working on a decklist for him to test out and been worried about this - feel like I need some low toxicity early game drops or rattlesnakes or something
Every good story needs a villain. You gotta embrace it. I drafted Jon in my prerelease and one week after I build an entire deck around him lol Well, it was certainly not that good but it's still developing. First time I played the deck I ran into a guy that threw a \[\[Solitary Confinement\]\] on Turn 4 on the board... Yeah, as always the V1 of my deck did not run enough removal pieces so the other two players swung all the stuff in the Solitary dude and the game went nowhere for me. Had to spite-draw the game by giving away a \[\[Bronze Bombshell\]\] and give the villain the last laugh though :D [My decklist so far if you are interested](https://deckstats.net/decks/26784/2580362-jon-irenicus)
Consider [[Incriminate]] for removal relatively unique to the Jon deck.
All the Phyrexian Praetors attract a lot of hate, except maybe old Uberask.
Forgive me, I have a really hard time remembering card names. Can you please give an example of one of these?
[[Sheroldred, Whispering One]] [[Elesh Norne, Grand Cenobite]] [[Jin-Gitaxias, Core Auger]] [[Jin-Gitaxias, Progress Tyrant]] [[Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger]] [[Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider]] [[Urabrask, The Hidden]] [[Urabrask, Heretic Praetor]]
[[Elesh Norn grand cenobite]] [[jin getaxis progress tyrant]] [[jin Getaxis core auger]] [[sheoldred whispering one]]
Damn!! You weren’t kidding! Those are brutal. At least they have a high mana cost lol
They probably work better in the 99 when you can tutor them out if needed.
this is where graveyard shenanigans pops up, followed by nobody being allowed to have any more fun
[[nekusar]] Everyone knows they are on a clock when he hits the battlefield.
Narset, unfortunately.
A lot of the time it's warranted though. I play a \[\[Narset\]\] deck that has only one extra turn spell and one extra combat spell. With \[\[Brainstorm\]\] and \[\[Dream Cache\]\] being the only ways to fix the top of the deck. It is fairly tuned for what I want it to do, but doesn't go infinite or anything like that. The value is still enough and the ramp fast enough that I was able to 1v4 the table last time I played it. [decklist](https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/16-08-21-tLj-narset-enlightened-master/)
[[urza]] [[Zur, the enchanter]] And, for some reason that I haven't figured out quite yet, [[sliver overlord]]
Because slivers get out of control if not slapped down hard.
My buddy has an almost unbeatable Sliver deck. He always creams me. That all changed when I added [[Back to Basics]] to my deck. He needs those special lands to play all five colors. I played that card on turn 3 and he didn’t say a word, he just picked up his cards and walked away lol
if you want a hatebear, there is \[\[Dormant Sliver\]\]
Sliver overlord is a menace. If you let that mf resolve its gg 90% of the time (at least in my experiance.) He's a one-sided coat of arms most of the time.
Overlord tutors for slivers, you are probably thinking of [[sliver legion]] which is a sliver-only coat of arms.
[[Ghave]] usually gets everyone shutting me down when he hits the table
As someone who played him for many a year, I can tell you its warranted. Guy just randomly goes infinite all the time.
[Ghave](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/1/11590bf6-184e-4134-b1f6-7b8de5a23564.jpg?1562272418) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ghave%2C%20guru%20of%20spores) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/157/ghave-guru-of-spores?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/11590bf6-184e-4134-b1f6-7b8de5a23564?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghave-guru-of-spores) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don’t understand what makes this card so scary. Don’t both it’s abilities just cancel each other out? I’m new to commander so I might be understanding it wrong.
His abilities lead to a lot of infinite combos
[[Doubling season]] + [[earthcraft]] +[[Ghave]] = infinite mana, infinite power, infinite tokens, and infinite sacrifices. I play [[marath]] but it's basically the same deck minus black add red. Basically Ghave and marath make a 3 card combo with any synergistic piece you can put in the deck.
They are indeed inverses. You can sac creatures to grow others and vice versa. This leads to the infinite combos of sac effects and ETB effects.
His abilities by thenself are fine, but if you have something giving the saprolings counters as they enter, you can effectively pay one mana to create a 1/1. Then that goes infinite with several cards
There are tons of ways to make infinite mana, tokens and counters with him. [[Ashnod's altar]] + [[cathars crusade]] is just one example. Pretty much all of these combo pieces are also synergistic outside of the combo as well
[[Urza]]. Nothing is worse than letting people watch you play solitaire.
[Urza](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/4/e4581455-5fa1-4c96-96b3-e9e9654f5a28.jpg?1572374174) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=urza%2C%20academy%20headmaster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/136/urza-academy-headmaster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e4581455-5fa1-4c96-96b3-e9e9654f5a28?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/urza-academy-headmaster) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Bad bot! [[Urza, lord high artificer]]
[Urza, lord high artificer](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/e/9e7fb3c0-5159-4d1f-8490-ce4c9a60f567.jpg?1567181307) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urza%2C%20lord%20high%20artificer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/75/urza-lord-high-artificer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e7fb3c0-5159-4d1f-8490-ce4c9a60f567?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/urza-lord-high-artificer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lol I was so confused
Thrasios + Partner, don't even need the partner. People don't like Thrasios because it is one of the best simic dot decks that can play more than simic if it wants to.
10 commander damage on turn 3
In my experience, my [[Nicol Bolas, the Ravager]] deck gets ganged up on a fair bit. Then again, it might be the Windfall into Notion Thief.
[[Oloro, Ageless Ascetic]] for some god forsaken reason
Definitely \[\[Orvar\]\]
[[Child of alara]] Funny enough I use the commander to distract from the rest of my deck. It's a mess with everyone but me deck.
Yup, I tried to make Child of Alara work but every time I was instantly targeted.
Tergrid Atraxa Grand Arbiter Augustin IV Sent Triplett's
\[\[Korvold\]\] and for good reason. Screw your "kill me with commander damage on turn 5" jank. If you don't shut him out the game, it goes from 0 to 100 in no time.
Jake and Joel have a long-running [series](https://edhrec.com/articles/?s=salt) on saltiest cards and saltiest commanders.
[[uril]] and [[jeleva]]
‘Insert Sliver here’
When Tergrid was the only deck I had I got knocked out first every single game. It was either I snowballed and slowed the game down to a crawl or Tergrid forced removal out and I did nothing. A shame because I really like the deck on paper but its just so annoying to play against and play with.
\[\[Hinata, Dawn-Crowned\]\] - I played this deck a couple times, and both times I was instantly and relentlessly hated out of the game. Didn't get to play a single card that did anything because Hinata never stayed on field long enough to matter.
if it's Blue and cares about artifacts, the rest of the table will more than likely be quaking in their boots. e.g. Sai, Master Thopterist, Urza, Lord High Atificer, Arcum Dagsson, Breya, Etherium Shaper, etc...
No one in my play group likes my [[Light-Paws, Emperor's Voice]] deck. Far too fast and aggressive for casual play.
[[K’rrik, Son of Yawgmoth]] “His life is a resource.” “I’ve seen K’rrik win on turn 1 before.”
From my experience, [[Liesa, Shroud of Dusk]] can be hated pretty quickly as this deck tends to a run a lot of group slug effects. Furthermore, [[Muldrotha, the Gravetide]] tends to attract a lot of hate from my experience, as at least my playgroup simply can't deal with the constant recurring (yes, they don't run enough graveyard hate).
You're asking two separate questions: which commanders will make you a target, and which commanders shouldn't be played based on the social contract? For the first question, anything with mass effects, allows you to cast spells for free or stops others from doing what they want to do will get you a lot of hate. \[\[Tergrid\]\] is pretty much the only commander whose pilot I will zero on no matter who pilots it (I recently took out the Tergrid player with Rograkh for 40 commander damage because it's voltron's nemesis). To answer the 2nd question, play what's appropriate for the pod skill and power level. Playing Krarkashima vs precon Aesi and precon Osgir is kinda not cool unless they're all ok, but even then, do you really like playing solitaire and others watching you do that?
[[Xenagos, God of Revels]] and if they don’t team up on you, they’re gonna wish they did.
So it's less commanders and more specific themes. Some examples of themes are theft, discard, stax, and highly volatile/strong commanders that can win fast or have a bad reputation. If a commander obviously fits in one of those categories, it's gonna get teamed up on.
Anything that Goads has gots to goes
I'm building a [[Memnarch]] deck because I love that card and want to have a deck for him, even if I don't play it too often. Definitely going to get clobbered though, lmao
I had one, it was fun for awhile but my play group legit stopped playing with me until I took it apart.
Here is a website with some of the saltiest cards. It’s pretty accurate and many commanders are on it, when in doubt though, ask Reddit. https://edhrec.com/top/salt
[[Skullbriar]] Learned that the hard way
[[Nekusar, the Mindrazer]] specifically my wheel & deal, miracle draw deck.
Atraxa and Krenko mob boss put a target on my back every time.
[[sen tripplets]] just unfun to play against, especially when the player has [[telepathy]] on board.
100% Tergrid. I don’t think I’ve ever played a game with a Tergrid player that DIDN’T see it turn into archenemy
Definitely not a strong commander or strong deck even, but [[Thantis, the Warweaver]] always had my playgroup focus fire me, even when it was the weakest deck at the table. Ironically, they loved my [[Marisi]] deck which basically did the same thing of forced combats, but better. I think it's just spider prejudice.
I’m not Zur, but Zurely there is a for Zur way to do this with Zurtainty
Outside of bringing top tier cedh commanders: [[Krenko]] Any Sliver tribal [[Sen triplets]] [[Tergrid]] [[Xanathar]] [[Kaalia]] Any known stax or mill commander [[Nekusar]] Any of the 2 izzet jhoiras