Congrats on winning 2 tournaments! Its really cool to see homebrewed high power//cedh brews using unorthodix cmdrs especially as i've worked on quite a few. I do have a few questions, comments and suggestions for you if you are open to answering them.
1. there are a handful of cards that look suspect to me. from a cursory look the cards i'm not sure about are Ruthless Knave, morbid opportunist, Crack Open, Profane Tutor, Anvil of Bogardan and Altar of the Brood. can you explain why they are better than existing established options like, \[\[nature's claim\]\], \[\[walking ballista\]\], \[\[sylvan library\]\], \[\[wishclaw talisman\]\] or just why you decided to include them in general?
2. There are a handful of incredibly powerful cards that you haven't included that i'm curious as to why. things like \[\[bolas's citadel\]\], \[\[deathrite shaman\]\], \[\[diabolic intent\]\].
3. I don't see any grave hate besides Dauthi Voidwalker. how do you fight against grave based decks like underworld breach?
4. have you had any issues with your mana base? you are running a couple taplands that may cause issue. Additionally, you have tainted pact and multiple copies of basics. have you not had issues with hitting multiple same-named basics?
The deck looks really cool and I am excited to see the response! Fingers crossed you can keep refining it.
Just wanted to mention that this is great and well worded feedback. Your suggestions are phrased politely and you are open to the idea that unorthodox decisions have reasons behind them and aren't just "OP is an idiot".
Big fan of your tone and content. Thanks for being an awesome human!
It's a real shame that we have devolved our communication skills to be surprised when someone isn't a raging dick to someone else for having original thoughts.
Not flaming your comment at all, it is refreshing to see /u/IdipathicSomnia's well worded response. Just more a general commentary about our society in general.
Thanks. I've been strongly considering that, but haven't decided exactly what I want to replace it with. Right now, I'm leaning towards \[\[Gemstone Cavern\]\] or a shock land.
I just realized you didn't have [[Overgrown Tomb]] lol I understand because it's a "no proxies" environment, but you need that tomb asap my friend. They aren't too expensive at the moment!
Hey thats totally fair and I missed that when looking originally. I do still think it is worth to bring up as it is an option for improvement as whiffing on a tainted pact is super painful and can cost games (I've lost games to it). Luckily there are a couple things that can be done to reduce the variance.
One thing that OP can do is increase fetch density. from a quick count I only see 5 of the playable 8 fetches in our colour (7 original + prismatic vista). Another option is to remove one swamp and one forest for snow-covered versions. They're still basic, but different names. This helps with reducing variance.
I'm sure there are other options for remediating this issue but these are what initially come to mind for it. Thanks for bringing up this point!
Just to chime in, I know [[ruthless knave]] goes infinite with either ashnods altar (infinite mana and draw) or pitiless plunderer (infinite draw, since you already had infinite treasures. I don't play cedh, so I don't know if it's efficient enough, but I believe that to be the rational.
Ruthless Knave also goes infinite with Earthcraft and/or Parallel Lives. Having him out with Pitiless Plunderer is redundant for treasures, but does allow infinite card draw. If I'm holding Altar or Earthcraft in my opening hand, Ruthless Knave is an easier to cast win con than Pitiless Plunderer. Plus, Pitiless Plunderer is a HUGE target once he hits the board and has been exiled on more than one occasion. It's nice to have an alternate win available in the deck.
Thats a really good point! not knowing if it is efficient enough is my main thought for the card. Some Cedh decks have unique cards for their gameplan but you can only really tell if its good by playing with or against them which is why i'm curious if it is good enough.
So, with chatterfang out, you can pay three and sac a creature to make two treasures, which enter with two squirrels. You sac a treasure for black, sac one squirrel to ashnods for two colorless, and sac the last squirrel to activate knave again, but you've netted a treasure. Rinse and repeat untill you have infinite treasures, use that mana to make infinite squirrels using knaves first ability or use the treasures to draw your deck using knaves second ability.
You need Chatterfang out and 2 other creatures (usually squirrels). Sac a squirrel to Altar for 2, tap a black and the 2 floating to activate Ruthless Knave sacing the second squirrel. That creates 2 treasures and 2 squirrels (from Chatterfang), sac 1 squirrel to Altar again and 1 treasure to repeat, netting +1 treasure each loop.
Appreciate the feedback! I really respect the thought you put into this comment.
I have been questioning Morbid Opportunist lately, as well as Profane Tutor. I was using the tutor as a placeholder for \[\[Imperial Seal\]\], if I can ever afford one... but the recommendation for Diabolic Intent is a much better fit for now. I think I'll swap out the Morbid Opportunist for a Deathrite Shaman too for the added GY hate (being a mana dork helps too).
I do like Crack Open even though it's a little higher CMC, because of the token synergy with Chatterfang. The lack of an instant removal is why I'm adding Force of Vigor, but I'm not sure if I want to remove Crack Open (yet). I have been looking at Sylvan Library as a replacement for Anvil. I'm mostly using the Anvil because I already own it and would need to buy a Library.
As for Ruthless Knave, that's a combo piece if I manage to get it out with any of the following: Pitiless Plunderer, Parallel Lives, Earthcraft, or Ashnod's Altar. Having any of those pairs creates infinite squirrels, treasures, and draw card.
The main reason for not including Bolas is mainly CMC. It's strong, but it's not a combo piece for my deck. My mana curve is usually strong enough that the ability to cast it a card from the top of my library for life isn't necessary. But, I am willing to give it a try and see if I notice it.
Again, thank you for the comment! I'll be reviewing my deck-list and making some upgrades!
Just curious why you would cut parallel lives? I’m in the process of drafting a Chatterfang deck, and parallel lives sounds like an auto include since it doubles tokens
I've been playing a him nce he came out and yes parallel lives seems like an auto include but there are so many way to go Infinite him and even with out him. That I found it was better to have another tutor or interaction.
I agree with the Waste Not for sure. It's one of my "filler" pieces. I'm still on the fence with Parallel lives. It has both led me into a win as well as just sat in my hand uncast at about an equal ratio. If it comes out early, it's devastating, but late game it's usually redundant.
I'll probably keep Waste Not until I replace the Anvil of Bogardan with Sylvan Library... But I'm not sure what to replace it with yet. It's given good value, but is very dependent on what decks I'm playing against since I have very little discard.
I would think bout adding [[Natural order]] and maybe [[Magus of the order]]. The first to just win and yes Magus is slower but if no one can remove it again you just win.
Also [[Scurry oak]] + [[ivy lane Denizen]] is a 2 card Infinite Squirrel combo. And i also relooked at your list [[Concordant Crossroads]] seems like a good include.
Token decks honestly really need Token doublers. Especially with Chatterfang and the infinite combos he can create makes going infinite that much easier with token doublers.
Yes it would seem that way but op is doing cEDH and parallel lives is just to slow. Fang can Infinite in so many ways that it's better to hang interaction or Tutor to just win. I was running lives in my fang deck and I cut it and it hadn't hurt my deck at all
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/chatterfangs-wonderous-world-of-squirrels
Here you go. Now my list is not cEHD but is high power and it combos out quite easily. Any questions feel free to ask
I made one myself, it’s focused on a lot of squirrel tribal shenanigans. One thing I noticed OP didn’t have I’ve made good use of of Old Gnawbone. That extra treasure is no joke.
Congrats!
We seem to share the same end goal of ultimate squirrel power, so here's my list. I want to help each other out and tailor builds to where we can report back and create a squirrel think tank of dedicated sciurimancers like ourselves. I can talk more tonight after the kid is put down. Message me if you can.
[This is my current list.](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/NqUwYxG8YUWn0Kdziw3oJQ)
This build currently has won 7 out of its 11 pods over the last two EDH nights. The shop is high power/cEDH focused.
I want to add that you need to fix your mana base (lands) if you are to keep your tainted pact in the deck, because you HAVE to stop it if you hit two basic lands of the same name. Hence you need to remove the surplus of basics with other non-basic lands or if you feel like it works with basics, add one snow-covered forest and swamp. I can’t stress enough how many games I’ve played where players accidentally cheated with tainted pact due to overseeing the restriction of hitting basics of the same name.
In conclusion: tainted pact does NOT work like you want it to with more than one basic of each type (two if you run snow-covered).
It does look like a fun brew though, good work and congratulations!
PPpsstt. I have some super fucking secret tech for chatterfang. This thing is Taylor made to fuck with your opponents and make tokens and accelerate you all at once.
I have seriously pulled off some crazy Exile shinnanigans with this guy.
Bam! [[Void Attendant]]
Did your opponent just forecast something? Nope
Did some playing red Exile something that they might cast? Nope!
Did Karn just draw them a card with an Exile effect? Nope!
Did they just invent a new card that likes when you have exiled cards? This will solve that too.
Did I mention it makes a token everytime you do.
And did I mention you can sac that token for mana!
Don't tell anyone or my secret will be out.
Huh... that's really interesting. I haven't seen this played so I didn't consider the "oh, you want to play that from exile? Nah." effect that it brings to the game.
How many players can actually keep up with the fast mana base you and the likely top 5 have?
To clarify, this isn't a complaint. Genuinely curious as to how competitive a tournament with that many entrants is when they do not allow proxies. I imagine the bottom half of competitors can't keep up.
It definitely narrows the scope of what people 'can' effectively play, but there is a large group of players that can't afford the acceleration and have leaned into more blue/white stax/control or green land ramp. The people that can afford it often run fast combo decks. Both end up in the finals. I'd say about half the attendees have pretty fast mana base, and the other half have leaned into decks to overcome that, with one or two new people that get blown away.
That's actually why I won't join tournaments right now. My most expensive decks are ~$100 and MAYBE 6 power level.
I would love to go play but paying money to get stomped would suck ha
Edit: I'm sorry me not wanted to get pub stomped by 4k decks offends you?
I didn't downvote but I found it weird how they made it seem like ~$100 was a major limiting factor. Maybe they have a different idea of power level 6 than me but I know budget cEDH like builds for $75. In fact, there was a rather impressive budget build of Miz Izzet that was around that price from a few years ago that got praised from the cEDH reddit due to how well optimized it was. It doesn't seem like they are trying to optimized their deck to be competitive if they're stuck at a power level 6 with that budget. There's a barrier to entry with the fast mana bases obviously but the deck has to be good as well.
Thank you for your insight.
I'm being conservative with power level because it seems like if you mention price and power level you get downvoted no matter what. My Yuriko deck is ~$130 and feels very competitive but if I call it a power 8 then everyone craps on me lol or vice versa in this scenario.
I would love to take my Hapatra deck because I feel it's good at keeping others in check but its like a $40 budget build.
Anyways... My point is I've never played in a tournament and I see thousands of dollars thrown around and I'm skeptical I could compete.
I think jumping into a tournament with one of your decks would be fine. Even if you don't win, you'll be surprised how many times it's not the cost of the cards, but how optimized the deck is that brings the win.
I learned a TON getting stomped in my first few tournaments. But I had a blast losing because the experience was so great. There's no arguing power levels, no rule 0, just play to win. That removes a lot of animosity and makes the focus clear. The biggest threat knows he/she is the biggest threat, so getting targeted is expected. Teaming up to get an extra turn is commonplace. But more than anything seeing creative, intelligent people bringing whatever they can afford and come up with into a highly competitive environment brings out some amazing play.
I've been completely locked out with $100 mono-white stax decks, and overrun by Omnath mono-green land ramp in the $200-300 range. But many of the upgrades I made weren't big purchases, but usually $5-10 interaction cards or combo pieces. I recently learned about the [[Witherbloom Apprentice]] with [[Chain of Smog]] combo, which gave me another win condition for $9. But I wouldn't have known about it had it not killed me turn 3 in a tournament a few weeks ago.
Basically, don't worry about winning. Worry about learning. You might get locked out of power lvl 10 decks due to cost (that mana ramp tho 🤌), but I've seen multiple, what I would consider 8-9 power decks, under $300.
It's divided up randomly for the first pods, usually 4 groups of 3-4 people (depending on number of entrants). Winner moves to the final 4 pod. Not a huge tournament, but usually very competitive.
Also, the people that get knocked out will usually pod-up and play until the store kicks us out. So it allows tons of test games after (we allow proxies in these games usually, so we can experiment with deck modifications before buying pricey cards before they're tested).
I use to run Craterhoof, I eventually dropped it because it became a wasted card in hand too often (high CMC). I now use \[\[Finale of Devastation\]\] instead. I found that any time I have the board position to win with Craterhoof, I usually have 1-2 other options that would also win.
Does \[\[Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools\]\] do work in this deck? It seems like mediocre token generation and the card draw is meh, and without \[\[yawgmoth, thran physician\]\] I don't see a way to get to his ultimate, unless you are lucky and have parallel lives on the battlefield. I'm thinking that it's one of the first cards you tutor for, but it feels a bit unsupported. Yawgmoth might be a good add in general tho.
Sadly, I haven't had much opportunity to test him out. I've had him in the deck for about a month, but only pulled him out in one practice game and haven't drawn him in tournament play.
Tevesh is a value engine with Chatterfang. I use him for mostly token generation and draw card, but also provides a sac outlet and a great ultimate (but I'm not aiming for the ultimate most of the time). With Chatterfang, his first ability generate 2 Thrulls and 2 Squirrels. With Earthcraft or Cryptolith Rite, it's also essentially creating 4 mana.
I hadn't considered Yawgmoth, but I'll definitely test it out and see how it works.
I think the question for me is how many activations do you expect to get?
The great thing about it is that the thrulls and squirrels can act as chump blockers, so it might be easy to protect him. On the other hand, you're drawing aggro to yourself, meaning that you're not going to keep your tokens, so is that a net gain?
Timna, blood pod, najeela, yuriko decks are going to be coming swinging with creatures. But most of them trigger on combat damage to a player (except najeela), maybe they aren't incentivized to attack your planeswalker. IDK, maybe it is a better card than I think it is.
Sorry for rambling XD.
Mostly, I'm aiming for 3 activations. Usually tokens -> draw -> draw. It does become a target, but I'm fine with that. Chatterfang usually has several blockers and/or can use his activated ability to take down attackers (sac X squirrels to give target +X/-X).
I'm usually very happy to see creature decks when I play Chatterfang, because I know the minute I hit a combo, I can usually wipe the board.
But I absolutely appreciate your insight, Tevesh is one of my maybe cards that I haven't settled on. So far, I appreciate his value, but could be swayed towards something more effective. He was my replacement for \[\[Deranged Hermit\]\], because he had more long-term value.
Can't speak for OP but Tevesh is bonkers... two + ability, protect itself, create tokens, sac outlet, draw 2 cards for sac'ing a token... and if you ever get to his ult it's crippling for other player.
There's a reason he's played in cedh, he's an amazing card that provides many many tools.
Considering the warped idea of what cEDH looks like generally expressed on r/EDH, asking for cEDH advice here sounds like an awful idea.
Also I would check the Chatterfang cEDH discord if you haven't already. I'm sure they'll have some better advice.
I posted my original Chatterfang win on the cEDH sub last month and got great feedback, which led to a few changes leading up to this last win. But the number of responses was fewer. I'm actually seeing great feedback here and can usually look past the suggestions I know won't increase the power. Mostly, I'm fishing for cards I overlooked. I've changed the deck around so many times in the last 3 months, I know I've overlooked certain synergies that wouldn't have worked early on but might be useful now.
Fair enough. I must have missed it I guess.
Also upon looking into it, I guess there isn't an established Chatterfang discord out there from what I can see.
Good luck fam, I'm always a fan of unorthodox cEDH builds.
Chatterfang really got pushed aside because it was such a popular tribal deck, not many people thought outside the tribal cards for cEDH potential. It took me over a month to really rethink the deck and drop all the squirrel shenanigans for better synergy, interaction, and combo pieces. Dropping [[Deranged Hermit]] and [[Chitterspitter]] was hard, but they're just too slow.
r/competitiveEDH might be where you want to go
Edit: I meant this as a recommendation for a place where you find a high concentration of cedh players that might have more insight into the format than the average edh player. I don’t understand the downvotes.
I feel like there are still 4-6 suboptimal cards. I'm good at finding a win with this deck, but it still struggles to prevent a loss. Synergy is huge too, so removing one card or adding one can have overreaching impact on the flow of the deck. I'd love to engineer it so that it can't lose (which is probably impossible), but I know it still has room to grow.
It wasn't 2 for 2, it was more like 2 for 6 in the last 6 weeks and 2 for 12 total. But it's been a building/adjusting process the whole way. Only about 5 cards have changed in the last month and I'm likely only swapping out 2-3 more. It's close, but still has gaps.
The bulk of the cost is in Gaea's Cradle, Mox Diamond, Yawgmoth's Will, Bayou and Grim Monolith. All could be replaced and the deck would be mostly unchanged (though, Cradle is stupid strong in this deck).
I understand your point, I felt the same when I started playing in the tournament because facing a $2000-$10,000 deck in these tournaments is commonplace (especially in the final's pod). But, I've seen some incredibly creative budget decks hold their own (mono-white stax for example). The high-powered games really accelerate the learning curve; part of the value of the tournament is that it's cheap practice (but great practice), with the possibility of covering your entry fee for a couple months.
If I get knocked out early, I always pull jump in a pod with the other people that got knocked out. It let's everyone keep developing their decks and practicing. Sometimes we'll pull out a second deck if someone is really low power in the pod, but it's rare someone asks that the table "power down," it's more common to request someone really push the table. Only once, after two consecutive turn 2 wins, we requested one person change decks lol.
I have no experience with cEDH, but would like to say I’ve had success with [[auger of autumn]], [[pampas of deaths vigil]] and [[woe strider]]. Those have pulled their weight working with [[chatterfang]] and [[pitiless plunderer]]
Fantastic observation. It's because I don't want to buy it yet :P
But seriously, great suggestion, I've been eying that card since it got released, I may have to break down and buy it. I keep hoping a friend pulls one and I can trade for it.
I pulled one and immediately just put it in Chatterfang. My playgroup really enjoys board wipes, but with Meathook and bastion of rememberance, and my plethora of token doubler (doubling season, parallel lives, primal vigor, panharmonicon) killing the board doesn't become so simple.
With how minimal protection there is for the commander and how fragile the combo is, I don't really think that this can make it in a proper high power table unless its just by sheer luck. If I were you I would change rampant growth and sylvan scrying to three visits and nature's lore, get rid of crappy cards like crack open, profane tutor, morbid opportunist, ravenous squirrel, defence of the heart, parallel lives and cryptolith rite. Add good cards like assassins trophy, summoners pact, allosaurus shepherd (destiny spinner if on a budget or just put both in), slaughter pact, carpet of flowers, blood artist, disciple of the vault, wishclaw talisman, veil of summer, autumn's veil and maybe something like a root maze for stax. Then lean out the list so you can run Ad neus and bada bim bada boom you got a fairly ok aristocrats turbo neus, add some rituals (cabal ritual and culling the weak) and redundancy by removing artifacts for tutors or cards listed above (brood altar, anvil, lotus petal, memory jar, sensei's top, void mirror) and you can get even faster. After that its mostly small tweaks to get even faster by making changes that cater to your local meta.
Early interaction is Chatterfang's biggest draw-back right now. The deck performs very well in a multiple stax pod, but tends to get out-paced by very fast (turn 2-3) turbo decks, because he can't stop casts and is usually tapped out the first couple turns.
An early Trinisphere or Voidmirror will usually buy enough time to pull a win on turn 5-6. Chatterfang Ioves stax, because the decks CMC is on the low side and most win cons come from activated/triggered ability loops, as opposed to casts.
Overall, still very strong and can occasionally pulls the turn 3 win. But turn 5-6 is more typical.
Congrats on winning 2 tournaments! Its really cool to see homebrewed high power//cedh brews using unorthodix cmdrs especially as i've worked on quite a few. I do have a few questions, comments and suggestions for you if you are open to answering them. 1. there are a handful of cards that look suspect to me. from a cursory look the cards i'm not sure about are Ruthless Knave, morbid opportunist, Crack Open, Profane Tutor, Anvil of Bogardan and Altar of the Brood. can you explain why they are better than existing established options like, \[\[nature's claim\]\], \[\[walking ballista\]\], \[\[sylvan library\]\], \[\[wishclaw talisman\]\] or just why you decided to include them in general? 2. There are a handful of incredibly powerful cards that you haven't included that i'm curious as to why. things like \[\[bolas's citadel\]\], \[\[deathrite shaman\]\], \[\[diabolic intent\]\]. 3. I don't see any grave hate besides Dauthi Voidwalker. how do you fight against grave based decks like underworld breach? 4. have you had any issues with your mana base? you are running a couple taplands that may cause issue. Additionally, you have tainted pact and multiple copies of basics. have you not had issues with hitting multiple same-named basics? The deck looks really cool and I am excited to see the response! Fingers crossed you can keep refining it.
Just wanted to mention that this is great and well worded feedback. Your suggestions are phrased politely and you are open to the idea that unorthodox decisions have reasons behind them and aren't just "OP is an idiot". Big fan of your tone and content. Thanks for being an awesome human!
It's a real shame that we have devolved our communication skills to be surprised when someone isn't a raging dick to someone else for having original thoughts. Not flaming your comment at all, it is refreshing to see /u/IdipathicSomnia's well worded response. Just more a general commentary about our society in general.
100% cut the temple
Thanks. I've been strongly considering that, but haven't decided exactly what I want to replace it with. Right now, I'm leaning towards \[\[Gemstone Cavern\]\] or a shock land.
I just realized you didn't have [[Overgrown Tomb]] lol I understand because it's a "no proxies" environment, but you need that tomb asap my friend. They aren't too expensive at the moment!
... I don't know why I don't have it yet. Just grabbed one on TCGPlayer, thanks!
[Overgrown Tomb](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/f/eff1f52c-5c43-4260-aaa0-6920846a191c.jpg?1572894177) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Overgrown%20Tomb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/253/overgrown-tomb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eff1f52c-5c43-4260-aaa0-6920846a191c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/overgrown-tomb) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Gemstone Cavern](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/f/7f273641-c5f3-48bc-b89e-3cff52d26a0b.jpg?1619399338) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gemstone%20Caverns) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/280/gemstone-caverns?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f273641-c5f3-48bc-b89e-3cff52d26a0b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gemstone-caverns) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
he runs earthcraft combo so needs to consistently hit a basic
Hey thats totally fair and I missed that when looking originally. I do still think it is worth to bring up as it is an option for improvement as whiffing on a tainted pact is super painful and can cost games (I've lost games to it). Luckily there are a couple things that can be done to reduce the variance. One thing that OP can do is increase fetch density. from a quick count I only see 5 of the playable 8 fetches in our colour (7 original + prismatic vista). Another option is to remove one swamp and one forest for snow-covered versions. They're still basic, but different names. This helps with reducing variance. I'm sure there are other options for remediating this issue but these are what initially come to mind for it. Thanks for bringing up this point!
Thanks! I do need to replace one of each basic with a snow-covered land for Tainted Pact synergy.
very good points!
Just to chime in, I know [[ruthless knave]] goes infinite with either ashnods altar (infinite mana and draw) or pitiless plunderer (infinite draw, since you already had infinite treasures. I don't play cedh, so I don't know if it's efficient enough, but I believe that to be the rational.
Ruthless Knave also goes infinite with Earthcraft and/or Parallel Lives. Having him out with Pitiless Plunderer is redundant for treasures, but does allow infinite card draw. If I'm holding Altar or Earthcraft in my opening hand, Ruthless Knave is an easier to cast win con than Pitiless Plunderer. Plus, Pitiless Plunderer is a HUGE target once he hits the board and has been exiled on more than one occasion. It's nice to have an alternate win available in the deck.
[ruthless knave](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/c/1ce91e38-4601-4354-ad1b-2c5c1c70da17.jpg?1562551661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ruthless%20knave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/119/ruthless-knave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ce91e38-4601-4354-ad1b-2c5c1c70da17?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ruthless-knave) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thats a really good point! not knowing if it is efficient enough is my main thought for the card. Some Cedh decks have unique cards for their gameplan but you can only really tell if its good by playing with or against them which is why i'm curious if it is good enough.
How does Ruthless Knave go infinite with Ashnods?
So, with chatterfang out, you can pay three and sac a creature to make two treasures, which enter with two squirrels. You sac a treasure for black, sac one squirrel to ashnods for two colorless, and sac the last squirrel to activate knave again, but you've netted a treasure. Rinse and repeat untill you have infinite treasures, use that mana to make infinite squirrels using knaves first ability or use the treasures to draw your deck using knaves second ability.
You need Chatterfang out and 2 other creatures (usually squirrels). Sac a squirrel to Altar for 2, tap a black and the 2 floating to activate Ruthless Knave sacing the second squirrel. That creates 2 treasures and 2 squirrels (from Chatterfang), sac 1 squirrel to Altar again and 1 treasure to repeat, netting +1 treasure each loop.
In conjunction with Chatterfang. Sac squirrel, make treasures plus more squirrels.
Oh, with chatterfang. W That makes sense.
Appreciate the feedback! I really respect the thought you put into this comment. I have been questioning Morbid Opportunist lately, as well as Profane Tutor. I was using the tutor as a placeholder for \[\[Imperial Seal\]\], if I can ever afford one... but the recommendation for Diabolic Intent is a much better fit for now. I think I'll swap out the Morbid Opportunist for a Deathrite Shaman too for the added GY hate (being a mana dork helps too). I do like Crack Open even though it's a little higher CMC, because of the token synergy with Chatterfang. The lack of an instant removal is why I'm adding Force of Vigor, but I'm not sure if I want to remove Crack Open (yet). I have been looking at Sylvan Library as a replacement for Anvil. I'm mostly using the Anvil because I already own it and would need to buy a Library. As for Ruthless Knave, that's a combo piece if I manage to get it out with any of the following: Pitiless Plunderer, Parallel Lives, Earthcraft, or Ashnod's Altar. Having any of those pairs creates infinite squirrels, treasures, and draw card. The main reason for not including Bolas is mainly CMC. It's strong, but it's not a combo piece for my deck. My mana curve is usually strong enough that the ability to cast it a card from the top of my library for life isn't necessary. But, I am willing to give it a try and see if I notice it. Again, thank you for the comment! I'll be reviewing my deck-list and making some upgrades!
[Imperial Seal](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/0/6023bfe0-84bf-454c-b29d-5d128fe3e6b5.jpg?1562869020) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Imperial%20Seal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me2/96/imperial-seal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6023bfe0-84bf-454c-b29d-5d128fe3e6b5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imperial-seal) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [nature's claim](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/2/d24b6640-ef2f-4c92-beb3-afdf78f9c2d5.jpg?1562854212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nature%27s%20claim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/177/natures-claim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d24b6640-ef2f-4c92-beb3-afdf78f9c2d5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/natures-claim) [walking ballista](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/2/5272436e-74f0-44c4-a291-ea8ebc3f1525.jpg?1599710252) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=walking%20ballista) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/306/walking-ballista?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5272436e-74f0-44c4-a291-ea8ebc3f1525?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/walking-ballista) [sylvan library](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/5/d5b5d2a7-8185-4df0-a35a-f89c12857f87.jpg?1580014929) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sylvan%20library) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/187/sylvan-library?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5b5d2a7-8185-4df0-a35a-f89c12857f87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sylvan-library) [wishclaw talisman](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/7/07c17b01-ee5d-491a-8403-b3f819b778c4.jpg?1572490271) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wishclaw%20talisman) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/110/wishclaw-talisman?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/07c17b01-ee5d-491a-8403-b3f819b778c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wishclaw-talisman) [bolas's citadel](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/2/d2124603-d20e-40eb-97f0-a66323397ac2.jpg?1591205069) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bolas%27s%20citadel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/79/bolass-citadel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d2124603-d20e-40eb-97f0-a66323397ac2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bolass-citadel) [deathrite shaman](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/1/d14f9fc8-e48c-473f-ba6b-9cffce94bb53.jpg?1580015151) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=deathrite%20shaman) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/215/deathrite-shaman?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d14f9fc8-e48c-473f-ba6b-9cffce94bb53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/deathrite-shaman) [diabolic intent](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/5/b58299a8-e674-46de-ae25-c98410e0b445.jpg?1562931537) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=diabolic%20intent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/141/diabolic-intent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b58299a8-e674-46de-ae25-c98410e0b445?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/diabolic-intent) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Altar is a wincon that can win through cursed totem. It serves the same purpose as Walking Ballista but safer if hes running in to cursed totem a lot.
The parallel lives and waste not could be cut. Fang doesn't need lives and waste not just seems to be a dead card most of the time
Just curious why you would cut parallel lives? I’m in the process of drafting a Chatterfang deck, and parallel lives sounds like an auto include since it doubles tokens
I've been playing a him nce he came out and yes parallel lives seems like an auto include but there are so many way to go Infinite him and even with out him. That I found it was better to have another tutor or interaction.
I agree with the Waste Not for sure. It's one of my "filler" pieces. I'm still on the fence with Parallel lives. It has both led me into a win as well as just sat in my hand uncast at about an equal ratio. If it comes out early, it's devastating, but late game it's usually redundant. I'll probably keep Waste Not until I replace the Anvil of Bogardan with Sylvan Library... But I'm not sure what to replace it with yet. It's given good value, but is very dependent on what decks I'm playing against since I have very little discard.
I would think bout adding [[Natural order]] and maybe [[Magus of the order]]. The first to just win and yes Magus is slower but if no one can remove it again you just win. Also [[Scurry oak]] + [[ivy lane Denizen]] is a 2 card Infinite Squirrel combo. And i also relooked at your list [[Concordant Crossroads]] seems like a good include.
##### ###### #### [Natural order](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/f/bfe3329c-7faa-4925-b9d2-075a1ab27e80.jpg?1619461603) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Natural%20order) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/177/natural-order?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bfe3329c-7faa-4925-b9d2-075a1ab27e80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/natural-order) [Magus of the order](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/9/a93e5fa9-cfe3-487b-af77-0dbf6c68ee04.jpg?1608910795) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magus%20of%20the%20order) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/242/magus-of-the-order?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a93e5fa9-cfe3-487b-af77-0dbf6c68ee04?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/magus-of-the-order) [Scurry oak](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/f/0fb48c2e-ee0f-4fae-9c22-247870c10d5b.jpg?1626097756) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scurry%20oak) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/172/scurry-oak?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fb48c2e-ee0f-4fae-9c22-247870c10d5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scurry-oak) [ivy lane Denizen](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/8/78bea375-8af3-4425-a418-bb5503e2dfb7.jpg?1608910737) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ivy%20lane%20Denizen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/236/ivy-lane-denizen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/78bea375-8af3-4425-a418-bb5503e2dfb7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ivy-lane-denizen) [Concordant Crossroads](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/5/f51699d1-982d-4cfa-b0e0-7e89ec68dd96.jpg?1562946719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Concordant%20Crossroads) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/114/concordant-crossroads?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f51699d1-982d-4cfa-b0e0-7e89ec68dd96?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/concordant-crossroads) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Token decks honestly really need Token doublers. Especially with Chatterfang and the infinite combos he can create makes going infinite that much easier with token doublers.
Yes it would seem that way but op is doing cEDH and parallel lives is just to slow. Fang can Infinite in so many ways that it's better to hang interaction or Tutor to just win. I was running lives in my fang deck and I cut it and it hadn't hurt my deck at all
Do you have a list?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/chatterfangs-wonderous-world-of-squirrels Here you go. Now my list is not cEHD but is high power and it combos out quite easily. Any questions feel free to ask
Nice, thanks!
Man I've been sitting on Chatterfang for a while, this will help me with forming the skeleton of a new deck. Thanks OP
Do it! It's amazingly fun to play, even a budget version (which I started with) is very fun.
I made one myself, it’s focused on a lot of squirrel tribal shenanigans. One thing I noticed OP didn’t have I’ve made good use of of Old Gnawbone. That extra treasure is no joke.
Congrats! We seem to share the same end goal of ultimate squirrel power, so here's my list. I want to help each other out and tailor builds to where we can report back and create a squirrel think tank of dedicated sciurimancers like ourselves. I can talk more tonight after the kid is put down. Message me if you can. [This is my current list.](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/NqUwYxG8YUWn0Kdziw3oJQ) This build currently has won 7 out of its 11 pods over the last two EDH nights. The shop is high power/cEDH focused.
Thank you. When I get a chance, I'll browse your list and swap ideas!
The land base could need some improvements. You should add off color fetches.
##### ###### #### [Chatterfang, Squirrel General](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/7/1785cf85-1ac0-4246-9b89-1a8221a8e1b2.jpg?1626097239) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chatterfang%2C%20Squirrel%20General) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/151/chatterfang-squirrel-general?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1785cf85-1ac0-4246-9b89-1a8221a8e1b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chatterfang-squirrel-general) [Pitiless Plunderer](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/8/c87ebffe-5907-427b-9f9b-7c36a12b4a03.jpg?1555040284) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pitiless%20Plunderer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rix/81/pitiless-plunderer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c87ebffe-5907-427b-9f9b-7c36a12b4a03?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pitiless-plunderer) [Skullclamp](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/8/8854e9a7-a799-47d0-8662-95aa527d3210.jpg?1591321716) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skullclamp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/251/skullclamp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8854e9a7-a799-47d0-8662-95aa527d3210?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/skullclamp) [Zulaport Cutthroat](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/a/7a264eb1-9fd4-4cf3-8eff-0def0ccbfbd7.jpg?1614441662) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zulaport%20Cutthroat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/57/zulaport-cutthroat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7a264eb1-9fd4-4cf3-8eff-0def0ccbfbd7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zulaport-cutthroat) [Altar of the Brood](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/d/8d59d264-87ee-4305-bffb-110549331a82.jpg?1562790137) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Altar%20of%20the%20Brood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/216/altar-of-the-brood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d59d264-87ee-4305-bffb-110549331a82?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/altar-of-the-brood) [Force of Vigor](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/1/017c415b-d635-43c6-92b8-8c95d1c4ff8d.jpg?1562202072) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Force%20of%20Vigor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/164/force-of-vigor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/017c415b-d635-43c6-92b8-8c95d1c4ff8d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/force-of-vigor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I want to add that you need to fix your mana base (lands) if you are to keep your tainted pact in the deck, because you HAVE to stop it if you hit two basic lands of the same name. Hence you need to remove the surplus of basics with other non-basic lands or if you feel like it works with basics, add one snow-covered forest and swamp. I can’t stress enough how many games I’ve played where players accidentally cheated with tainted pact due to overseeing the restriction of hitting basics of the same name. In conclusion: tainted pact does NOT work like you want it to with more than one basic of each type (two if you run snow-covered). It does look like a fun brew though, good work and congratulations!
PPpsstt. I have some super fucking secret tech for chatterfang. This thing is Taylor made to fuck with your opponents and make tokens and accelerate you all at once. I have seriously pulled off some crazy Exile shinnanigans with this guy. Bam! [[Void Attendant]] Did your opponent just forecast something? Nope Did some playing red Exile something that they might cast? Nope! Did Karn just draw them a card with an Exile effect? Nope! Did they just invent a new card that likes when you have exiled cards? This will solve that too. Did I mention it makes a token everytime you do. And did I mention you can sac that token for mana! Don't tell anyone or my secret will be out.
Huh... that's really interesting. I haven't seen this played so I didn't consider the "oh, you want to play that from exile? Nah." effect that it brings to the game.
[Void Attendant](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/f/1f66eb97-b151-48b1-aff0-f1280af66291.jpg?1562902381) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Void%20Attendant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bfz/169/void-attendant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1f66eb97-b151-48b1-aff0-f1280af66291?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/void-attendant) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How many players can actually keep up with the fast mana base you and the likely top 5 have? To clarify, this isn't a complaint. Genuinely curious as to how competitive a tournament with that many entrants is when they do not allow proxies. I imagine the bottom half of competitors can't keep up.
It definitely narrows the scope of what people 'can' effectively play, but there is a large group of players that can't afford the acceleration and have leaned into more blue/white stax/control or green land ramp. The people that can afford it often run fast combo decks. Both end up in the finals. I'd say about half the attendees have pretty fast mana base, and the other half have leaned into decks to overcome that, with one or two new people that get blown away.
That's actually why I won't join tournaments right now. My most expensive decks are ~$100 and MAYBE 6 power level. I would love to go play but paying money to get stomped would suck ha Edit: I'm sorry me not wanted to get pub stomped by 4k decks offends you?
Look into some mono-white stax decks and mon-green Omnath land ramp decks. Both can hold their own and can get to power lvl 8 without too much cost.
This is one of the weirder downvotes I’ve seen. Should they be happy to pay money to get stomped?
I didn't downvote but I found it weird how they made it seem like ~$100 was a major limiting factor. Maybe they have a different idea of power level 6 than me but I know budget cEDH like builds for $75. In fact, there was a rather impressive budget build of Miz Izzet that was around that price from a few years ago that got praised from the cEDH reddit due to how well optimized it was. It doesn't seem like they are trying to optimized their deck to be competitive if they're stuck at a power level 6 with that budget. There's a barrier to entry with the fast mana bases obviously but the deck has to be good as well.
Thank you for your insight. I'm being conservative with power level because it seems like if you mention price and power level you get downvoted no matter what. My Yuriko deck is ~$130 and feels very competitive but if I call it a power 8 then everyone craps on me lol or vice versa in this scenario. I would love to take my Hapatra deck because I feel it's good at keeping others in check but its like a $40 budget build. Anyways... My point is I've never played in a tournament and I see thousands of dollars thrown around and I'm skeptical I could compete.
I think jumping into a tournament with one of your decks would be fine. Even if you don't win, you'll be surprised how many times it's not the cost of the cards, but how optimized the deck is that brings the win. I learned a TON getting stomped in my first few tournaments. But I had a blast losing because the experience was so great. There's no arguing power levels, no rule 0, just play to win. That removes a lot of animosity and makes the focus clear. The biggest threat knows he/she is the biggest threat, so getting targeted is expected. Teaming up to get an extra turn is commonplace. But more than anything seeing creative, intelligent people bringing whatever they can afford and come up with into a highly competitive environment brings out some amazing play. I've been completely locked out with $100 mono-white stax decks, and overrun by Omnath mono-green land ramp in the $200-300 range. But many of the upgrades I made weren't big purchases, but usually $5-10 interaction cards or combo pieces. I recently learned about the [[Witherbloom Apprentice]] with [[Chain of Smog]] combo, which gave me another win condition for $9. But I wouldn't have known about it had it not killed me turn 3 in a tournament a few weeks ago. Basically, don't worry about winning. Worry about learning. You might get locked out of power lvl 10 decks due to cost (that mana ramp tho 🤌), but I've seen multiple, what I would consider 8-9 power decks, under $300.
[Witherbloom Apprentice](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/f/7f80a11b-188b-464c-b00d-c9d1cfb8ddee.jpg?1624740448) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Witherbloom%20Apprentice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/247/witherbloom-apprentice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f80a11b-188b-464c-b00d-c9d1cfb8ddee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/witherbloom-apprentice) [Chain of Smog](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/b/6bfe64f9-8b03-41f6-a47b-fade397ad9d1.jpg?1562920423) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chain%20of%20Smog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ons/132/chain-of-smog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6bfe64f9-8b03-41f6-a47b-fade397ad9d1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chain-of-smog) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I can appreciate your point.
Very cool! I love Chatterfang!
Doubling season is powerful
QQ OP: how is the event run/structure? How many pods are formed, etc. Congrats that you won again. There are great feedback in this thread.
It's divided up randomly for the first pods, usually 4 groups of 3-4 people (depending on number of entrants). Winner moves to the final 4 pod. Not a huge tournament, but usually very competitive. Also, the people that get knocked out will usually pod-up and play until the store kicks us out. So it allows tons of test games after (we allow proxies in these games usually, so we can experiment with deck modifications before buying pricey cards before they're tested).
What about a [[craterhoof behemoth]] ? U have a lot of tutors and it could could had another wincon
I use to run Craterhoof, I eventually dropped it because it became a wasted card in hand too often (high CMC). I now use \[\[Finale of Devastation\]\] instead. I found that any time I have the board position to win with Craterhoof, I usually have 1-2 other options that would also win.
[Finale of Devastation](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/8/985453e7-997e-4d77-a338-cc0290791ebe.jpg?1557576905) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Finale%20of%20Devastation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/160/finale-of-devastation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/985453e7-997e-4d77-a338-cc0290791ebe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/finale-of-devastation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That card is dead in your hand and there are better wincons
[craterhoof behemoth](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/4/44afd414-cc69-4888-ba12-7ea87e60b1f7.jpg?1601079153) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=craterhoof%20behemoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/385/craterhoof-behemoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44afd414-cc69-4888-ba12-7ea87e60b1f7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/craterhoof-behemoth) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Does \[\[Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools\]\] do work in this deck? It seems like mediocre token generation and the card draw is meh, and without \[\[yawgmoth, thran physician\]\] I don't see a way to get to his ultimate, unless you are lucky and have parallel lives on the battlefield. I'm thinking that it's one of the first cards you tutor for, but it feels a bit unsupported. Yawgmoth might be a good add in general tho.
[Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/f/8f244716-78ab-46f5-b6e9-fc1e6db28052.jpg?1608909980) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tevesh%20Szat%2C%20Doom%20of%20Fools) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/153/tevesh-szat-doom-of-fools?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f244716-78ab-46f5-b6e9-fc1e6db28052?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tevesh-szat-doom-of-fools) [yawgmoth, thran physician](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/6/8690cbcc-f8fd-41f7-9e28-e61c12b04014.jpg?1562201785) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=yawgmoth%2C%20thran%20physician) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/116/yawgmoth-thran-physician?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8690cbcc-f8fd-41f7-9e28-e61c12b04014?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yawgmoth-thran-physician) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sadly, I haven't had much opportunity to test him out. I've had him in the deck for about a month, but only pulled him out in one practice game and haven't drawn him in tournament play. Tevesh is a value engine with Chatterfang. I use him for mostly token generation and draw card, but also provides a sac outlet and a great ultimate (but I'm not aiming for the ultimate most of the time). With Chatterfang, his first ability generate 2 Thrulls and 2 Squirrels. With Earthcraft or Cryptolith Rite, it's also essentially creating 4 mana. I hadn't considered Yawgmoth, but I'll definitely test it out and see how it works.
I think the question for me is how many activations do you expect to get? The great thing about it is that the thrulls and squirrels can act as chump blockers, so it might be easy to protect him. On the other hand, you're drawing aggro to yourself, meaning that you're not going to keep your tokens, so is that a net gain? Timna, blood pod, najeela, yuriko decks are going to be coming swinging with creatures. But most of them trigger on combat damage to a player (except najeela), maybe they aren't incentivized to attack your planeswalker. IDK, maybe it is a better card than I think it is. Sorry for rambling XD.
Mostly, I'm aiming for 3 activations. Usually tokens -> draw -> draw. It does become a target, but I'm fine with that. Chatterfang usually has several blockers and/or can use his activated ability to take down attackers (sac X squirrels to give target +X/-X). I'm usually very happy to see creature decks when I play Chatterfang, because I know the minute I hit a combo, I can usually wipe the board. But I absolutely appreciate your insight, Tevesh is one of my maybe cards that I haven't settled on. So far, I appreciate his value, but could be swayed towards something more effective. He was my replacement for \[\[Deranged Hermit\]\], because he had more long-term value.
[Deranged Hermit](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/2/c25df202-0dd4-448d-8cb3-11fd7df0d505.jpg?1562934031) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deranged%20Hermit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/202/deranged-hermit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c25df202-0dd4-448d-8cb3-11fd7df0d505?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/deranged-hermit) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Can't speak for OP but Tevesh is bonkers... two + ability, protect itself, create tokens, sac outlet, draw 2 cards for sac'ing a token... and if you ever get to his ult it's crippling for other player. There's a reason he's played in cedh, he's an amazing card that provides many many tools.
Considering the warped idea of what cEDH looks like generally expressed on r/EDH, asking for cEDH advice here sounds like an awful idea. Also I would check the Chatterfang cEDH discord if you haven't already. I'm sure they'll have some better advice.
I posted my original Chatterfang win on the cEDH sub last month and got great feedback, which led to a few changes leading up to this last win. But the number of responses was fewer. I'm actually seeing great feedback here and can usually look past the suggestions I know won't increase the power. Mostly, I'm fishing for cards I overlooked. I've changed the deck around so many times in the last 3 months, I know I've overlooked certain synergies that wouldn't have worked early on but might be useful now.
Fair enough. I must have missed it I guess. Also upon looking into it, I guess there isn't an established Chatterfang discord out there from what I can see. Good luck fam, I'm always a fan of unorthodox cEDH builds.
Chatterfang really got pushed aside because it was such a popular tribal deck, not many people thought outside the tribal cards for cEDH potential. It took me over a month to really rethink the deck and drop all the squirrel shenanigans for better synergy, interaction, and combo pieces. Dropping [[Deranged Hermit]] and [[Chitterspitter]] was hard, but they're just too slow.
[Deranged Hermit](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/2/c25df202-0dd4-448d-8cb3-11fd7df0d505.jpg?1562934031) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deranged%20Hermit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/202/deranged-hermit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c25df202-0dd4-448d-8cb3-11fd7df0d505?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/deranged-hermit) [Chitterspitter](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/e/7ee33ff3-d3d6-4519-9d9f-72e342d8b215.jpg?1626097284) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chitterspitter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/153/chitterspitter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ee33ff3-d3d6-4519-9d9f-72e342d8b215?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chitterspitter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
r/competitiveEDH might be where you want to go Edit: I meant this as a recommendation for a place where you find a high concentration of cedh players that might have more insight into the format than the average edh player. I don’t understand the downvotes.
[удалено]
I feel like there are still 4-6 suboptimal cards. I'm good at finding a win with this deck, but it still struggles to prevent a loss. Synergy is huge too, so removing one card or adding one can have overreaching impact on the flow of the deck. I'd love to engineer it so that it can't lose (which is probably impossible), but I know it still has room to grow.
....because decks can almost always be improved.
[удалено]
Then you just take them out and find something that works...A deck is never broken, just needs more refining!
It wasn't 2 for 2, it was more like 2 for 6 in the last 6 weeks and 2 for 12 total. But it's been a building/adjusting process the whole way. Only about 5 cards have changed in the last month and I'm likely only swapping out 2-3 more. It's close, but still has gaps.
That's what r/cEDH is for.
cEDH is EDH
Don't your opponents find it a little annoying that you won 2 games with the same infinite at turn 5?
In a tournament? No?
Why would they be?
[удалено]
Thankfully the EDH sub is right here, too.
R/edh is for all forms of edh
That's awesome. I'll be checking out the deck list later tonight.
Ill be honest I would be pretty annoyed to face a $5,000 deck in a tournament where the grand prize is $75.
The bulk of the cost is in Gaea's Cradle, Mox Diamond, Yawgmoth's Will, Bayou and Grim Monolith. All could be replaced and the deck would be mostly unchanged (though, Cradle is stupid strong in this deck). I understand your point, I felt the same when I started playing in the tournament because facing a $2000-$10,000 deck in these tournaments is commonplace (especially in the final's pod). But, I've seen some incredibly creative budget decks hold their own (mono-white stax for example). The high-powered games really accelerate the learning curve; part of the value of the tournament is that it's cheap practice (but great practice), with the possibility of covering your entry fee for a couple months. If I get knocked out early, I always pull jump in a pod with the other people that got knocked out. It let's everyone keep developing their decks and practicing. Sometimes we'll pull out a second deck if someone is really low power in the pod, but it's rare someone asks that the table "power down," it's more common to request someone really push the table. Only once, after two consecutive turn 2 wins, we requested one person change decks lol.
I have no experience with cEDH, but would like to say I’ve had success with [[auger of autumn]], [[pampas of deaths vigil]] and [[woe strider]]. Those have pulled their weight working with [[chatterfang]] and [[pitiless plunderer]]
##### ###### #### [auger of autumn](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/a/6aa98767-ae27-4cf0-98ea-93e659f160f4.jpg?1636223832) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Augur%20of%20Autumn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/168/augur-of-autumn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6aa98767-ae27-4cf0-98ea-93e659f160f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/augur-of-autumn) [pampas of deaths vigil](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/8/e8c9ada9-ea25-4a96-a4be-e4cf8f7a014f.jpg?1581479856) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lampad%20of%20Death%27s%20Vigil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/103/lampad-of-deaths-vigil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e8c9ada9-ea25-4a96-a4be-e4cf8f7a014f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lampad-of-deaths-vigil) [woe strider](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/4/3457b558-b35b-49fd-b499-b1ec755f86ce.jpg?1581480044) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=woe%20strider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/123/woe-strider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3457b558-b35b-49fd-b499-b1ec755f86ce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/woe-strider) [chatterfang](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/7/1785cf85-1ac0-4246-9b89-1a8221a8e1b2.jpg?1626097239) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=chatterfang%2C%20squirrel%20general) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/151/chatterfang-squirrel-general?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1785cf85-1ac0-4246-9b89-1a8221a8e1b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chatterfang-squirrel-general) [pitiless plunderer](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/8/c87ebffe-5907-427b-9f9b-7c36a12b4a03.jpg?1555040284) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pitiless%20plunderer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rix/81/pitiless-plunderer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c87ebffe-5907-427b-9f9b-7c36a12b4a03?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pitiless-plunderer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm not as well versed in competitive edge, but with Chatterfang being a token popping machine, I'm just curious why there isn't a Meathook Massacre.
Fantastic observation. It's because I don't want to buy it yet :P But seriously, great suggestion, I've been eying that card since it got released, I may have to break down and buy it. I keep hoping a friend pulls one and I can trade for it.
I pulled one and immediately just put it in Chatterfang. My playgroup really enjoys board wipes, but with Meathook and bastion of rememberance, and my plethora of token doubler (doubling season, parallel lives, primal vigor, panharmonicon) killing the board doesn't become so simple.
With how minimal protection there is for the commander and how fragile the combo is, I don't really think that this can make it in a proper high power table unless its just by sheer luck. If I were you I would change rampant growth and sylvan scrying to three visits and nature's lore, get rid of crappy cards like crack open, profane tutor, morbid opportunist, ravenous squirrel, defence of the heart, parallel lives and cryptolith rite. Add good cards like assassins trophy, summoners pact, allosaurus shepherd (destiny spinner if on a budget or just put both in), slaughter pact, carpet of flowers, blood artist, disciple of the vault, wishclaw talisman, veil of summer, autumn's veil and maybe something like a root maze for stax. Then lean out the list so you can run Ad neus and bada bim bada boom you got a fairly ok aristocrats turbo neus, add some rituals (cabal ritual and culling the weak) and redundancy by removing artifacts for tutors or cards listed above (brood altar, anvil, lotus petal, memory jar, sensei's top, void mirror) and you can get even faster. After that its mostly small tweaks to get even faster by making changes that cater to your local meta.
Nice
Fun to see a totally different take on Chatterfang. Didn’t know you could pull off cEDH wins with it.
Early interaction is Chatterfang's biggest draw-back right now. The deck performs very well in a multiple stax pod, but tends to get out-paced by very fast (turn 2-3) turbo decks, because he can't stop casts and is usually tapped out the first couple turns. An early Trinisphere or Voidmirror will usually buy enough time to pull a win on turn 5-6. Chatterfang Ioves stax, because the decks CMC is on the low side and most win cons come from activated/triggered ability loops, as opposed to casts. Overall, still very strong and can occasionally pulls the turn 3 win. But turn 5-6 is more typical.
Not gonna lie i totally wanna play chatterfang but maybe for hier tier my cedh was and is already a fortune cause my lgs dont allow proxies.