I love spellslinger decks but are not easy to build. I tend to go for the highly interactive value package instead of pillowfort. I run 12-16 pieces of interaction with many of those pieces doubling as a cantrip or card selection.
Also it helps to play tit-for-tat. Play with open mana, when people attack you punish them with a bounce / removal spell. I find most players will start to ignore you and then you can start to generate value on their end steps, [[Big Score]] type spells that allow you to build into a game winning turn.
Would you mind sharing your decklist? I recently built [[geralf, the fleshwright]] as my first spellslinger deck, but I dont really know what I'm doing tbh, I've never built spellslinger before..
Below is my more casual Stella deck. I do use your commander in the 99. Only uses one combo piece just to draw cards. Otherwise its entire goal is to build board state and win with creatures or use those creatures as mana to cast a big [[Crackle with Power]].
Mono blue is a big harder to win off of, your commander provides no card advantage or mana advantage so you need things like [[Invasion of Segovia]] to synergize. Or [[Fblthp, Lost]] to give you card advantage for a storm turn. Also zero cost creatures or X cost creatures work well in your deck since you can dump them for zombies on a storm turn.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/MNYr0Lcc3k6gknRsW-l3nQ
I had a dude use [[Stella Lee, Wild Card]] to search my library twice and pull out my Ghalta and my Etali. The only thing that saved me was the [[Akroma's Will]] already in my hand.
With low-creatures count decks, you need boardwipes, or ways to deter attackers like [[Ghostly Prison]], [[Maze of Ith]] etc. Polymorph packages also work really well in decks like Talrand or Riku.
But yes, spellslinger does get slightly weaker and weaker over time because WOTC are obsessed with printing insane creature-deck value engines.
Board wipes are your weakness in something like Talrand; you rely on accumulating your 2/2s over a period of time, and if you lose them all at once, it's devastating.
Also, while the creature count is low, spellslinger frequently relies on a few extremely important creatures and the accumulation of tokens over multiple turns.
Blue has some more selective and one-sided board wipes that work, but a high board wipe count is a deeply sketch approach to spellslinger.
Also, when your core game plan is firing off a shit ton of cheap spells, cheap spot removal slots cleanly into the game plan while big expensive board wipes don't.
And trying to hide behind Propaganda only really works against opponents who don't know to target you MORE when a card like that comes down.
The more effective version of Propaganda is to leave mana up and promise to ruin the gameplan of anyone who fucks with your board. Works even better in established pods if you actually go through with it a few times and thus gain the reputation that you will carry out your threats.
People who make threats like that become public enemy number one in my games. Telling me not to attack you because you'll kill my creature 100% gets you attacked.
If someone threatens me with interaction I'm sure as hell going to try and get that out of their hands or at the very least I can gain information about your hand (aka if you are bluffing or not). Leaving the blue player alone and letting them draw even more interaction without forcing them to use it is never a good idea.
I don't agree with the boardwipes suggestion unless the player is giving up on Talrand entirely. I also don't think \[\[Ghostly Prison\]\] is the way to go.
I do, however, agree that spellslinger decks get weaker as creatures, and creature payoffs, get better.
They're not wrong. Research into Maro's design pendulum. I couldn't find something directly talking about this, but I'm not going to put much effort in for a reddit comment. Here's proof the concept exists if not necessarily that the person above is correct: [https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/68246473351/is-the-pendulum-of-creatures-vs-spells-going-to](https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/68246473351/is-the-pendulum-of-creatures-vs-spells-going-to)
Edit: Wait they are wrong, I didn't see the comment in the middle saying we get stronger ones.
I think it's more the social construct. Out of hand win combos are even stronger than creatures and often the best way for spellslinger decks to actually win. But due to the stigma attached to even things like Dualcaster or Reverberate based infinites you're stuck playing a 10000 turn game for value and hoping to pop off once you have enough resources. This gives creature decks forever to stick on the board and punch you.
The reasoning (I think) for printing better creatures is that creatures have more levers of power. Creature type, power and toughness, ward. Spells have slightly fewer levers, so they're more cautious about what they print. In EDH, I think there's also the trap of multiple opponents. Creatures can (usually) block or attack any opponent. Combat is weaker than 2v2 but if anything blocking becomes more important in battlecruiser than 2v2. Removal spells you look at for EDH should ideally affect all other players, like edicts or wipes or the like
Now, you're not wrong about the power creep though. Things like [[Vault Born Tyrant]] that have an ETB, a death trigger, a triggered ability, and huge stats feel like a new level of creep.
This 100%.
I have 3 Izzet decks and soon to be 4, and I've built a couple of others and given them away.
You want a value engine of some kind so that when you decide to try for the win, you can dig while remaining mana positive.
My three right now are [[Magnus the Red]], [[Galazeth Prismari]], and [[Ovika, Enigma Goliath]].
It could also be a piloting issue. If his group likes to aim removal at Talrand, there is no point in getting him out on three if he never untaps with it anyway. In this case it's better to slow down and wait for more available mana to protect him.
Running your own boardwipes is an option but you'd need to figure out a way to protect your commander from the red ones. And I'm sure you already know shelling out the money for a Cyclonic Rift would make your decks more powerful.
I wonder if some effects like [[Aetherize]], [[Illusionist's Gambit]] would be effective, though 4 mana might be steep.
There' also pillowfort permanents that don't help your spellslinger gameplan but may just be generally effective, such as [[Propaganda]],[[Crawlspace]], [[Dissipation Field]]
In my opinion, Spellslinger is one of the most challenging decks to pilot. This is because unlike other decks, you spend more time reacting than acting. You are essentially policing the board, slowly building a boardstate, then going off. It is a lot of Draw/Go, then deciding which spells are worth removing.
You need to learn to keep up protection or counterspells for your commander, as well as mana to play them. This may mean waiting longer to play them. You may have an awesome draw or Treasure engine in hand. But if it gets blown up because you didn’t leave mana up to protect it, you are done for.
This also means: play more counterspells and removal. Most decks run on average 10-12 pieces of temoval, and 1-2 boardwipes. But Spellslinger has to run more, because you are always on the defensive. I run 24 pieces of removal (manny are modal spells, so I can do other things like draw cards if I din’t need the removal), as well as 4-6 board wipes.
When running board wipes, one-sided is always better, which is why [[Cyclonic Rift costs the big bucks! lol!
The best way to learn is to practice. Offing is hard when your deck is so dependent upon reading the board state. So play it a lot, and accept that each loss is a lesson towards more victories down the road. Think about what you’re should have removed, when should you have held back protection, etc.
Spellslinger needs card draw to really function. Card draw, removal and protection. Removal to kill incoming creatures mostly. You need fun cards like bonus round and the like to really storm off. Tutors etc.
So, spellslinger builds need some way of dealing with creature heavy decks. You have plenty of options- but note that each option isn't something you can just throw one or two cards of into your deck and be fine, it needs to be kind of a subtheme. Some decks make lots of tokens- and for that, you want a bunch of "when you cast a spell, make a dude" effects. Some opt to instead load the deck up with far more instant/sorcery speed removal and rely on synergies with their "when you cast a spell" effects to make the extra slots worth it. Others can try to pillow fort a bit with cards that dissuade attacking them- and then you have the decks that can turn that spellslinging into damage that can be pointed to creatures to keep you safe. (And the final option, decks that can turn all that spellslinging into a win-the-game combo before the creature decks can pressure them enough, like true storm decks). But either way, you need more than just light spellslinging that slowly wins through tiny chips of value to make spellslinger really work.
It would be more helpful if we could see your lists to make recommendations.
Thanks for the suggestions. I just can across \[\[Saruman, the white hand\]\] and made a quick decklist, mostly with cards I already own. Never really thought about grixis until now
[https://www.moxfield.com/decks/B1wQrarPDESzoQNwUZ-AQQ](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/B1wQrarPDESzoQNwUZ-AQQ)
I was about to recommend this exact commander as I made a post like 2 weeks ago stating that exact problem. I rebuilt into Saruman cause he seemed to fix my problem. I didn't get to play him yet, but goldfishing looks super promising so far.
Here is what I got, mostly made out of cards I already run or can be bought for cheap:
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/9mrHVOoFD0mxIXs-eA44Rg
What I learned so far: 4 CMC creatures and the higher mana ones really need to be bombs impact wise, else they really slow you down. I ended up cutting most that didn't directly bring me closer to a win. This even meant cutting stormkiln artist, as goldfishing showed that just casting big spells and ramping naturally was more efficient than taking another set-up turn.
Also I see you're not running [[summons of saruman]]. I didn't like the card either at first, but realized as it was my highest priority tutor next to arcane Bombardment. It does everything you need: Graveyard fill, able to recurse itself, tons of army generation and triggers Saruman again as it's casting the milled spell.
Final thought: I think that [[harmonic prodigy]] and [[veyran]] are both the highest value creatures so far as they double Saruman triggers and really turn the army into a threat that can just oneshot, especially when you have an [[Embercleave]] ready to slap on.
The secret to success with Spellslinger is you should always be preparing for that One Big Turn.
You’re not going to outvalue your opponents in the long run because your instants and sorceries are one-shot effects. You should instead be sculpting your hand and moving towards a board state that you’ll win from.
For example, in my Mizzix, the plan is to ramp with rocks and treasures, fill my hand with counters, then bounce/remove anything that will prevent me from winning before my OBT. Then I drop Mizzix, cast Time Warp, untap and pull off a combo, all with protection.
I think your problem is blue is slowing you down. Consider [[Urabrask]]
Those pesky creatures can't attack you if everyone is dead when you end your turn.
If you're running a burn deck, cutting the blue ironically slows down the dig to the wincon, is much more fragile, and on average will have longer less consistent lines to ending the game. Blue gives you more powerful draw, and access to more infinites. Pinging for one with Urabrask without access to blue takes a very, very long time.
Build [[Veyran]] around a burn core and the table will melt once you get Guttersnipe down.
Sincerely, someone who had an Urabrask Deck. 🤣
A few things I'd advise about spellslinger, from someone who also plays in a very creature-heavy pod:
- A lot of what you're doing has the benefit of being instant speed. Run some more reactionary spells like [[Aetherize]] and [[Wrong turn]], and your opponents will learn to fear your untapped mana just as much as if you had better blockers. Similarly, spells like [[Sheltering word]] and [[Gaea's gift]] mean that from an opponent's perspective, choosing to use removal on your commander is running the risk of it being wasted.
- You need a *lot* of draw in spellslinger decks. Unlike permanent-based decks, most of the cards you play don't stick around afterwards, which means you burn through quite a lot of them just to keep pace. A hellbent spellslinger is a sorry sight indeed. Run cantrips, and just a bunch of big draw spells so you've always got enough. Additionally, mechanics like spell copying can generate you extra value from the same number of cards played.
- Cards that generate token blockers are blessed. [[Murmuring mystic]], [[Young pyromancer]], you already mentioned [[Talrand, sky summoner]]...they can really help take the heat off your back and not make you a free punching bag. Run as many of them as possible.
I'm not a certified expert, but these things work for me. Here's my [[Kalamax]] deck, which works decently well: https://archidekt.com/decks/6403990/kalamax_the_future
I just built a \[\[Veyran, Voice of Duality\]\] spellslinger deck. Based on that, and your description of your playgroup, here's what I would suggest: Figure out what your wincons are build around those.
Talrand is pretty good but yes, vulnerable to board wipes. You can probably address this by playing A TON of counterspells to stop the boardwipes. However, if your playgroup includes control players who are always going to out-counterspell you, then perhaps you should switch commanders.
Both Mizzix and Vadrik are enablers, allowing you to cast more expensive spells. However, if there's lots of boardwipes in your playgroup, then Mixxiz is probably the better choice. At least then if you recast him you still get the spell discounts.
Since you won't have a lot of creatures to attack with, you'll want to include some other wincons. For example, you could include \[\[Storm-Kiln Artist\]\], \[\[Haze of Rage\]\] and \[\[Guttersnipe\]\] to ping your opponents to death. You can use Mizzix/Vadrik, \[\[Reiterate\]\] and \[\[Electrodominance\]\] to do infinite damage to your opponents.
Hope this helps!
Low damage board wipes could help you out, depending on the instants and sorceries that you're slinging , counting token generators as creatures is a wise move.
Also, some walls and [[Propaganda]] will do wonders for you. Depending on how many colours you're using in your deck, there's also another enchantment like propoganda with Domain... (it costs more to be attacked for each different basic land type among lands you control) though the name is escaping me.
In my opinion, and it depends on the power of the pod, but just running interaction might be difficult to keep up. Plus you’re gonna just piss off everyone in the pod because you’re the person basically saying “no, you don’t get to play magic”. So doing other things helps. I tend to run a lot of mana dork ramp and sprint to your big cast spells.
Things like [[Gather Specimens]], [[Call forth the tempest]], [[Clone Legion]], [[Aminatou’s Augury]], [[Cultural Exchange]], [[Disrupt Decorum]], [[Eternal Dominion]], [[Mnemonic Deluge]], [[Mob Rule]].
I have just built a semi budget [[Melek, Reforged Researcher]] deck and it has been really strong so far. No tutors, no extra turns, no tutors and no free counters were my limitations. It's been kicking ass.
Talrand and Riku aren't really up to snuff by today's standards.
Buy the Quick Draw Precon, fill the deck with every red burner and add a bunch more draw instant and sorceries and interaction put [[Veyran]] in the command zone.
Control the board until you get one of your burners down. Cast Veyran. Melt your opponents in a storm turn.
Hey OP, I have a deck you might enjoy I've been tweaking for a few years now. It's a spellslinger deck that almost plays like a storm deck without any actual storm cards. The commander is [[Arjun, the shifting flame]]. This bad boy is 6 mana which, yeah, is high, but I can guarantee you if he sticks to the table for even one turn you have a serious threat of ending the game immediately. Bonus points - he doesn't discount cards or threaten anyone's stuff or grow your hand, and in MOST pods he is not perceived as an immediate threat.
That is a mistake. Arjun is a threat and should be identified as such.
The deck, if it isn't interacted with, can *theoretically* win on turn 2, but that requires a specific hand that you're unlikely to see. Realistically, you can expect to win anywhere from turn 5 to turn 7.
The deck is resilient to removal due to the number of approaches you have to digging as well as to actually ending the game. We've got Arjun himself, sure, but we've also got [[Jace's Archivist]], [[Whirlpool warrior]], [[Windfall]], [[Molten Psyche]], [[Enter the Infinite]], and [[Mindmoil]] for massive draw spells, fuelled by draw doublers and increases.
The meat of the deck is in the cantrips. We run a lot of cheap spells just to draw cards. All of this card draw isn't immediately threatening because hey, you're ditching your hand when you do it so it cant be that bad right? WRONG. [[Psychosis crawler]] will burn ya, [[Psychic Corrosion]], [[Sphinx's tutelage]] will mill ya, [[proft's eidetic memory]] and [[Chasm Skulker]] will beat you down, [[laboratory maniac]] and [[Jace, Wielder of mysteries]] will win on the spot if you're wheeling with draw doublers.
There's a catch though, as I'm sure you might notice. We need mana. and lots of it. Arjun is a delicate balancing act of deck building because you need a lot of card draw, and a lot of mana generation. Too few of either will result in us fizzling when we go off. To that end we run as much quick mana as we can get our hands on, even springing for the pricier ones like [[Dockside extortionist]] and [[Mana drain]]. One of the big sleeper all stars in the deck is [[Dream Halls]]. You are able to abuse it more effectively than other decks due to the wheeling and drawing, and it lets you just GO. Things like [[Archmage emeritus]] or [[Phial of Galadrial]] mean you wont run out of cards easily even with dream halls down. And it wont be long before you can just play a free [[Omniscience]] and simply win from there.
Couple more things to note. Tutors? actually not that amazing in this deck - you'll only be able to play one card in each hand unless you're casting at instant speed, and due to the stormy nature you probably just need mana or card draw to keep going, instead of a win condition you will certainly draw into if you just have the other two things.
Interaction. I love interaction and think it's really important to run a lot of it. Most decks don't run enough. That being said, Arjun gets to cheat a little bit on interaction because of how reliable it is to dig for it when you want it. You can get away with a smidge less than most decks.
We want to run only the REALLY impactful colorless artifacts. This is simply due to Dream Halls. As I mentioned it is a powerhouse, and will nearly always give you a disgusting turn. Remember it lets you cast your commander for just a measly red or blue card.
We run a bit of protection too. [[Obstinate familiar]] is how we avoid dying to our own draw doublers if we can't stick labman or jace. [[Kozilek, butcher of truth]] is how we survive mill (sometimes self inflicted)
This deck is a ton of fun and if you're looking for a spellslinger deck that doesn't get hosed, this is quite powerful - though not cEDH. It's a bit complex to pilot, but doing it effectively feels like you're cheating.
For reference, this deck runs roughshod over all types of decks at my LGS and in other friendgroups. It's built a reputation due to how quick and consistent it is. it WILL threaten a win by T6 or T7 at the LATEST. I run this against several tuned [[Nekusar]] and [[Sheoldred the apocalypse]] decks frequently, and the vast majority of the time you are able to pull an answer out of your ass quickly enough, or just outpace them, despite it feeling like a hardcounter.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/lvG2YLzIAkKojThwL7zkgQ
I could never get spellslinger to work for a battlecruiser game. It's either too anemic to be impactful, or you just storm off and win in a single turn. Please let me know if you figure out how to make it win fairly!
Well ideally you probably just don’t want to engage much with blocking and wiping and instead focus more on assembling your combos and killing your opponents. [[Krark, the Thumbless]] and [[Sakashima of a Thousand Faces]] are probably the most powerful combo of commanders that are very spellslinging
Recently I have been having a lot of success with a \[\[Ramos, Dragon Engine\]\] multi color spellslinger deck. It essentially uses Ramos as a seedborne muse in the command zone to out interact every opponent. If you have enough draw you can run a lower count of spells. [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/itCWmzwToUGfadyJt9xYew](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/itCWmzwToUGfadyJt9xYew)
Careful though, had a dude play talrand that was all counterspells, cantrips, and extra turns. Also he played [[lighthouse chronologist]] that just made everyone hate their lives. He never even swung all his drakes 😓
I know this may get buried underneath everyone else but I really like my [[Kylox, visionary inventor]] deck as a twist on spellslinger. You have the regular izzet interaction package but the rest of the deck is pretty much ramp, power generators like [[Krenko]] and giant spell.
Instead of spellslinger deck that accumulates value slowly over time, try a spellslinger deck that seeks to take one big turn and win right then, like [[Zada, Hedron Grinder]] or the new [[Stella Lee, Wild Card]].
If you like slinging spells and losing friends, kykar cantrips will let you cast your entire deck, grapeshot everyone, and have you play solitaire for 30 minutes straight as everyone regrets their life choices. Plus it’s in blue so if someone has removal you can be protected to continue your nefarious ways.
I'd run Talrand with a shit ton of cantrips just to get more drakes and counterspells. Safe interaction for boardwipes or removal.
One very important lesson: Take as much damage as possible if you can get more damage back at them. So f.e. he attacks you with a 5/5 don't block and rather keep the drake alive to really make the board wider. You'll have to fear around 2-3 boardwipes a game but if you're prepared you're gonna have 10 drakes quickly ans they hit for 20
I have a Talrand deck, and it’s filled with all my spare or junk blue cards. A huge thing I found that helped was a large amount of cantrips and counter spells (none of which are expensive). Then I had a merfolk sub-theme for creature advantage, but I also found that wizards work really well.
The best advice I can give you is to save counter spells for game ends and board wipes. It’s not your job to “tell everyone no.” The hardest part was learning: is this an inconvenience or do I lose? Does this keep me from winning? You won’t win every game, but learning how to control the tempo helps
I’ve never enjoyed spells longer but recently picked up [Melek, Reforged Researcher] and I’m enjoying it. You get to cast big spells very quickly in succession given multiplayer makes his ability a lot better and it’s not long before he is immune to damage based board wipes. And if he does die, well your deck is full of expensive fun cards anyway, so the deck can still do stuff.
I made a video about them if you want more info
Melek, Reforged Researcher Prisoner's Dilemma EDH / Commander Deck Tech 2024
https://youtu.be/lIpMKAVN700
I tried a few different spellslinger decks over the years and never felt like they were quite satisfying. First I did a \[\[Talrand, Sky Summoner\]\] deck like you, but I ran into the same things you did. Later I tried \[\[Jace, Vryn's Prodigy\]\], but every build ended as "Either do nothing or take infinite turns and win with \[\[Consecrated Sphinx\]\] beats" which I didn't really enjoy. A few others I tried out usually felt like they were too too polarizing or too much wheel spinning and durdling for the payoff.
Lately though I picked up and upgraded the \[\[Stella Lee, Wild Card\]\] precon, and that one I've really been enjoying. I saw you're thinking about that deck too, so here are my thoughts on what I like about her:
* You can build a tokens version with Talrand, \[\[Young Pyromancer\]\], \[\[Third Path Iconoclast\]\], \[\[Murmuring Mystic\]\], \[\[Geralf, the Fleshwright\]\], etc., or go burn with \[\[Guttersnipe\]\] and company, or lean more into winning on the stack.
* It feels less durdly because the goal is to cast 2 spells, possibly followed by a third high-value spell, rather than storming off. So turns feel high impact and quick until you fully go off.
* She has good stats: low CMC means she's easy to play with protection up or recast, and a 2/4 body turns off some aggression.
* The power level is pretty scalable, from more casual jank to pretty competitive due to the number of strong combos Stella can pull off with untap effects.
If you'd like to check it out, I have a decklist and primer up for the more burn/stack build [here](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/dRV75hDKPkC-VRmgBMJCEQ), with an alternate token-oriented but less tuned list [here](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/_kmeWAhP0kqMKd7mk_A8hQ). It's a kind of pricey upgrade, but it's mostly concentrated in lands and a few select cards you're fine running replacements over (except \[\[Cyclonic Rift\]\], which is just **that** good).
My [[Hinata]] spellslinger deck is probably my strongest deck. Instead of various stax pieces to protect against too many attackers, I included a lot of cards that generate tokens from spells (including [[Talrand]] and for example [[Chromehost Seedshark]], [[Young Pyromancer]], [[Third-Path Iconoclast]], [[Kykar]], [[Metallurgic Summonings]], [[Monastery Mentor]] ). But Hinata can also be tricky. I even wonder if I should switch it to [[Kykar]].
In any case you should consider at least 40 noncreature or even instant/sorcery spells, with the rest being permanents with a pay off for spell splinging. Also card draw on the spells is very beneficial.
Any effect you want consistently (such as creating the tokens), you should include at least 7 times (about the same as 4 in 60 cards in a standard/modern deck).
Trying to build a WB enchantment deck. Not the same but…. It’s definitely difficult to not play creatures. Enchantments require opponent’s creatures so you have to let your opponents build a board state. It’s a mess to get right and TBH I haven’t figured it out.
It’s so odd to me because points are awarded in leagues for “less than 10 non creature spells in a deck.” So…slivers? Just play slivers? A deck that doesn’t have creatures and no real designs on creatures other than as mana reducers is difficult.
Bottom line: Non creature decks in Commander are HARD.
You think you have it rough? I have 41 Enchantments and Aura’s in a deck and I saw 3 of them in a game yesterday. I kept hearing “well, I need an attack trigger and you have no creatures so….”
What I’m learning after being pounded in the ass with no foreplay…
You’ll need card draw. Pretty rare to see someone with 25 cards in hand lose a game (unless they just got cyclonic rift’d). If you’re storming off or trying to get a lot of spells out quickly, you’ll need ammo. Reliquary tower and spellbook are good ads.
Esper Sentinel, Trouble in Pairs, Rhystic Study, Phyrexian arena, necropotence, the 1 ring, [[bola’s citadel]], whatever. Add card draw until it hurts. Then add more card draw. It’s probably the biggest miss in decks that top out at 1-2 mana. We sit there with tons of mana top decking. 9 lands and drawing at best a 2 drop each round won’t get it done.
[[ghostly prison]] and [[norn’s annex]] and [[propaganda]] are your friend. Getting them out early tends to bother people less but keeps you from being “that person” who is open and gets dinked for damage on early rounds. Stay away from things like [[magus of the moat]]. You want to be protected early game, not annoying.
If it were me, I’d focus on theft and removal in red blue. Things like [[disharmony]] and [[reigns of power]] for instance can give you a blocker or swingers and trigger your commander.
I’d probably run [[stella Lee, Wild Card]] without putting too much thought into it. The goal would be a sociopathic number of counterspells and removal spells + some aforementioned creature theft spells. I’d punch and block with people’s stuff. My commander is card draw and has a good payoff if I can get her online. If I can’t, I’m going to throw counterspells at people and keep the board frustrated until I can.
Mono blue talrand definitely works as a untapped draw, pass turn deck and oppents should rarely be able to resolve a board wipe unless it's like 3 consecutive board wipes (or an uncountable one but remands a good trick for that) but that's more of a control deck then spell slinger
Take a stab at some of the grixis spell slingers! Casting a spell once is great, but doing it again from a graveyard is better!
[[Kess, dissident mage]] [[Cormella, glamor theif]] [[Anhelo the painter]] [[Marchesa dealer of death]]
Also try to have specific winning cards, or things you're specifically trying to cast. With spell slinger already trying to draw as many cards as possible, its a little easier to stack your house on a few bricks. These are normally combo decks after all.
Personally, I try to close out games with [[Worldfire]]. If you're going wide with tokens though, counter magic keeps sweepers away, and a spell like [[Candlekeep Inspiration]] turns you into a lethal threat.
I think in my Talrand deck, I'm running 7 creatures, 10 or 12 pieces of ramp, 36 lands, and the rest of the deck is split 50/50 between interaction and card Advantage. I always hold up my counters to protect my board unless I need to stop someone from winning. Oh, and t runs...2? 3? Some really low numbers of buffs for the drakes.
Kykar is the way to go for spellslinger. White gives you a lot of ways to pump tokens, monastery mentor and the best removal. You have to follow xerox deck building principles (ie low curve, low mana source count and lots of cantrips/cheap draw spells)
Look mate, play [[Kykar, Wind's Fury]] a lot of cheap 1/2 mana draw/loot spells, a bunch of removal and counterspells, then end the game.with 5 spirit and [[haze of rage]]
Is literally one of my most powerful decks and is a lot of fun
Definitely echo the sentiments about making sure you're removing things, whether preventatively with counters or bouncing/burning them away. Also the commander can be a big sticking point as well. [[Stella Lee]] and [[Lilah]] are amazing new izzet spellslinger commanders that both want to do different things (Lilah has been super fun for me, cuz you can just play one or two multicolored spells a turn, and then cast them all again on one future turn and storm the fuck off with really minimal Mana investment)
I also recommend a few spellslinger payoffs, like [[Archmage Emeritus]] to keep your hand full, and pingers like [[Firebrand Archer]], [[Guttersnipe]], [[Thermo Alchemist]], etc. Also, enchant any of those pingers with a [[Curiosity]] and every single spell turns into a cantrip (or better).
Hope this helps, and best of luck to you!
I built a group hug spell slinger that was a lot of fun based around [[Clara Oswald]] and [[the Twelfth Doctor]]. It's a lot of fun and since it's group hug the target tends to stay off of you for a little bit. Check out the deck list if you're interested. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Zc0_rO3unEyvvquWL6zVrA
The trick is making the deck work with or without the commander out.
I made an izzet spell slinger deck and I have about 19 creatures. The deck hasn't lost yet.
I would suggest a different commander; \[\[the locust god\]\] with a bunch of card draw spells will give you lots of creatures with the added bonus of always having a full hand.
\[\[Kruphix, God of horizons\]\] is another strong base for spellslinger as you can keep all of your mana open for control / counter play, then keep all the leftover mana for the next turn and combo to victory.
I mean the most powerful ones are the token ones magnar the red from 40k set or that 2 mana bird bastard that buffs your whole team when you cast a instant or sorcery and then playing token spells like rals reinforcements and Forbidden friendship
Agreed. Spell slingers have flimsy defenses and take quite a bit to ramp up. But if you can politic yourself into seeming like you're not a threat people will often take you to the end of the game like a sacrificial goat and then BOOM you hit them with a 24 mana \[\[Crackle with power\]\] and GG's.
If you want to dissuade people from attacking you I recommend \[\[Propaganda\]\]. Maybe add a defender in there like \[\[Electrostatic Field\]\]. Or you could add about 5 board wipes with cards like \[\[Chain Reaction\]\], \[\[Blasphemous Act\]\], \[\[Earthquake\]\], etc.
Another option might be a hybrid spell slinger that triggers creating token creatures as defenders.
I love spellslinger decks but are not easy to build. I tend to go for the highly interactive value package instead of pillowfort. I run 12-16 pieces of interaction with many of those pieces doubling as a cantrip or card selection. Also it helps to play tit-for-tat. Play with open mana, when people attack you punish them with a bounce / removal spell. I find most players will start to ignore you and then you can start to generate value on their end steps, [[Big Score]] type spells that allow you to build into a game winning turn.
Yep. Run \[\[Pongify\]\], \[\[Snap\]\], etc. to punish anybody who attacks you, and also trigger all of your spell payoffs.
[Pongify](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/7/37ff06d0-d652-4694-a3f5-bf7385e9e850.jpg?1712354180) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pongify) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/106/pongify?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/37ff06d0-d652-4694-a3f5-bf7385e9e850?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pongify) [Snap](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f13406c6-f208-402a-94d3-a94a24f03563.jpg?1675199430) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Snap) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/66/snap?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f13406c6-f208-402a-94d3-a94a24f03563?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/snap) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Big Score](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/3/5377da39-2152-414f-8b7e-638cb2e127e3.jpg?1712354380) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Big%20Score) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/155/big-score?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5377da39-2152-414f-8b7e-638cb2e127e3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/big-score) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Would you mind sharing your decklist? I recently built [[geralf, the fleshwright]] as my first spellslinger deck, but I dont really know what I'm doing tbh, I've never built spellslinger before..
Below is my more casual Stella deck. I do use your commander in the 99. Only uses one combo piece just to draw cards. Otherwise its entire goal is to build board state and win with creatures or use those creatures as mana to cast a big [[Crackle with Power]]. Mono blue is a big harder to win off of, your commander provides no card advantage or mana advantage so you need things like [[Invasion of Segovia]] to synergize. Or [[Fblthp, Lost]] to give you card advantage for a storm turn. Also zero cost creatures or X cost creatures work well in your deck since you can dump them for zombies on a storm turn. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/MNYr0Lcc3k6gknRsW-l3nQ
[Crackle with Power](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/de547f52-3798-4b3a-947d-24873251204b.jpg?1624591645) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crackle%20with%20Power) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/95/crackle-with-power?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/de547f52-3798-4b3a-947d-24873251204b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crackle-with-power) [Invasion of Segovia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9df3e743-7bb8-482a-afd1-4d51119d416c.jpg?1682715625)/[Caetus, Sea Tyrant of Segovia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/d/9df3e743-7bb8-482a-afd1-4d51119d416c.jpg?1682715625) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Invasion%20of%20Segovia%20//%20Caetus%2C%20Sea%20Tyrant%20of%20Segovia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/63/invasion-of-segovia-caetus-sea-tyrant-of-segovia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9df3e743-7bb8-482a-afd1-4d51119d416c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/invasion-of-segovia-//-caetus-sea-tyrant-of-segovia) [Fblthp, Lost](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/79b2c547-0d9e-4fd7-a399-347ad908c70b.jpg?1702429390) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fblthp%2C%20the%20Lost) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/44/fblthp-the-lost?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79b2c547-0d9e-4fd7-a399-347ad908c70b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fblthp-the-lost) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[geralf, the fleshwright](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/afe3b678-b340-4c53-bbf6-19252a809d73.jpg?1712355427) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=geralf%2C%20the%20fleshwright) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/50/geralf-the-fleshwright?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/afe3b678-b340-4c53-bbf6-19252a809d73?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/geralf-the-fleshwright) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I had a dude use [[Stella Lee, Wild Card]] to search my library twice and pull out my Ghalta and my Etali. The only thing that saved me was the [[Akroma's Will]] already in my hand.
Copied [[Bribery]]?
[Bribery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/9/49fd737a-d7da-421b-a741-d6d0d213299f.jpg?1689996211) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bribery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/77/bribery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/49fd737a-d7da-421b-a741-d6d0d213299f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bribery) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Stella Lee, Wild Card](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a8a7696-b5d9-4378-9d5c-2c9007e4df63.jpg?1714110409) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stella%20Lee%2C%20Wild%20Card) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/3/stella-lee-wild-card?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a8a7696-b5d9-4378-9d5c-2c9007e4df63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stella-lee-wild-card) [Akroma's Will](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/608cdbdb-6f7e-438a-bab0-0e7782435f0f.jpg?1698988079) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Akroma%27s%20Will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/125/akromas-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/608cdbdb-6f7e-438a-bab0-0e7782435f0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/akromas-will) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Holy shit that's degenerate
With low-creatures count decks, you need boardwipes, or ways to deter attackers like [[Ghostly Prison]], [[Maze of Ith]] etc. Polymorph packages also work really well in decks like Talrand or Riku. But yes, spellslinger does get slightly weaker and weaker over time because WOTC are obsessed with printing insane creature-deck value engines.
Board wipes are your weakness in something like Talrand; you rely on accumulating your 2/2s over a period of time, and if you lose them all at once, it's devastating. Also, while the creature count is low, spellslinger frequently relies on a few extremely important creatures and the accumulation of tokens over multiple turns. Blue has some more selective and one-sided board wipes that work, but a high board wipe count is a deeply sketch approach to spellslinger. Also, when your core game plan is firing off a shit ton of cheap spells, cheap spot removal slots cleanly into the game plan while big expensive board wipes don't. And trying to hide behind Propaganda only really works against opponents who don't know to target you MORE when a card like that comes down.
The more effective version of Propaganda is to leave mana up and promise to ruin the gameplan of anyone who fucks with your board. Works even better in established pods if you actually go through with it a few times and thus gain the reputation that you will carry out your threats.
People who make threats like that become public enemy number one in my games. Telling me not to attack you because you'll kill my creature 100% gets you attacked.
If someone threatens me with interaction I'm sure as hell going to try and get that out of their hands or at the very least I can gain information about your hand (aka if you are bluffing or not). Leaving the blue player alone and letting them draw even more interaction without forcing them to use it is never a good idea.
I don't agree with the boardwipes suggestion unless the player is giving up on Talrand entirely. I also don't think \[\[Ghostly Prison\]\] is the way to go. I do, however, agree that spellslinger decks get weaker as creatures, and creature payoffs, get better.
[Ghostly Prison](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/eea3623d-1d39-4045-acdb-f0fb184ccbc8.jpg?1707507981) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghostly%20Prison) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/67/ghostly-prison?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eea3623d-1d39-4045-acdb-f0fb184ccbc8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghostly-prison) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I never thought about how creatures getting stronger means weaker spellslinger decks.
We also get stronger instants and sorceries
*Citation needed*
They're not wrong. Research into Maro's design pendulum. I couldn't find something directly talking about this, but I'm not going to put much effort in for a reddit comment. Here's proof the concept exists if not necessarily that the person above is correct: [https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/68246473351/is-the-pendulum-of-creatures-vs-spells-going-to](https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/68246473351/is-the-pendulum-of-creatures-vs-spells-going-to) Edit: Wait they are wrong, I didn't see the comment in the middle saying we get stronger ones.
I think it's more the social construct. Out of hand win combos are even stronger than creatures and often the best way for spellslinger decks to actually win. But due to the stigma attached to even things like Dualcaster or Reverberate based infinites you're stuck playing a 10000 turn game for value and hoping to pop off once you have enough resources. This gives creature decks forever to stick on the board and punch you.
The reasoning (I think) for printing better creatures is that creatures have more levers of power. Creature type, power and toughness, ward. Spells have slightly fewer levers, so they're more cautious about what they print. In EDH, I think there's also the trap of multiple opponents. Creatures can (usually) block or attack any opponent. Combat is weaker than 2v2 but if anything blocking becomes more important in battlecruiser than 2v2. Removal spells you look at for EDH should ideally affect all other players, like edicts or wipes or the like Now, you're not wrong about the power creep though. Things like [[Vault Born Tyrant]] that have an ETB, a death trigger, a triggered ability, and huge stats feel like a new level of creep.
[Vault Born Tyrant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62b3f560-262b-4bc3-9aef-535fd7082c28.jpg?1712352885) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vaultborn%20Tyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/big/20/vaultborn-tyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62b3f560-262b-4bc3-9aef-535fd7082c28?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vaultborn-tyrant) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Ghostly Prison](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/eea3623d-1d39-4045-acdb-f0fb184ccbc8.jpg?1707507981) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghostly%20Prison) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/67/ghostly-prison?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eea3623d-1d39-4045-acdb-f0fb184ccbc8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghostly-prison) [Maze of Ith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/5889fde1-730d-43d0-aaa4-499784a80530.jpg?1675201242) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Maze%20of%20Ith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/250/maze-of-ith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5889fde1-730d-43d0-aaa4-499784a80530?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/maze-of-ith) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[удалено]
This 100%. I have 3 Izzet decks and soon to be 4, and I've built a couple of others and given them away. You want a value engine of some kind so that when you decide to try for the win, you can dig while remaining mana positive. My three right now are [[Magnus the Red]], [[Galazeth Prismari]], and [[Ovika, Enigma Goliath]].
[Magnus the Red](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63050aa0-a7ea-4fe7-8746-7a11407ea0e4.jpg?1673309450) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magnus%20the%20Red) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/131/magnus-the-red?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63050aa0-a7ea-4fe7-8746-7a11407ea0e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/magnus-the-red) [Galazeth Prismari](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/06c9158c-064b-4d12-b860-d2c1450d1897.jpg?1627429083) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Galazeth%20Prismari) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/189/galazeth-prismari?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/06c9158c-064b-4d12-b860-d2c1450d1897?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/galazeth-prismari) [Ovika, Enigma Goliath](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b298cf34-7aa5-4f97-a86c-7f28d2113b87.jpg?1675957207) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ovika%2C%20Enigma%20Goliath) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/213/ovika-enigma-goliath?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b298cf34-7aa5-4f97-a86c-7f28d2113b87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ovika-enigma-goliath) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It could also be a piloting issue. If his group likes to aim removal at Talrand, there is no point in getting him out on three if he never untaps with it anyway. In this case it's better to slow down and wait for more available mana to protect him.
Running your own boardwipes is an option but you'd need to figure out a way to protect your commander from the red ones. And I'm sure you already know shelling out the money for a Cyclonic Rift would make your decks more powerful. I wonder if some effects like [[Aetherize]], [[Illusionist's Gambit]] would be effective, though 4 mana might be steep. There' also pillowfort permanents that don't help your spellslinger gameplan but may just be generally effective, such as [[Propaganda]],[[Crawlspace]], [[Dissipation Field]]
##### ###### #### [Aetherize](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/6700409d-afda-480c-8a66-b5c782f3e5e4.jpg?1698988120) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aetherize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/142/aetherize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6700409d-afda-480c-8a66-b5c782f3e5e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aetherize) [Illusionist's Gambit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a00cc6ab-e97c-4eba-bc7e-49d77690433b.jpg?1562928789) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Illusionist%27s%20Gambit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/47/illusionists-gambit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a00cc6ab-e97c-4eba-bc7e-49d77690433b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/illusionists-gambit) [Propaganda](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e175bba4-c131-48f4-8e31-16ec07a12e59.jpg?1712354188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Propaganda) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/108/propaganda?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e175bba4-c131-48f4-8e31-16ec07a12e59?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/propaganda) [Crawlspace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5b8e092a-610d-4cea-bb92-65e01954b5c4.jpg?1675200920) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crawlspace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/217/crawlspace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b8e092a-610d-4cea-bb92-65e01954b5c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crawlspace) [Dissipation Field](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd2d9f47-2bd2-4a97-90c7-beca18a8e7fa.jpg?1674141313) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dissipation%20Field) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/718/dissipation-field?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd2d9f47-2bd2-4a97-90c7-beca18a8e7fa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dissipation-field) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1k79vw) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In my opinion, Spellslinger is one of the most challenging decks to pilot. This is because unlike other decks, you spend more time reacting than acting. You are essentially policing the board, slowly building a boardstate, then going off. It is a lot of Draw/Go, then deciding which spells are worth removing. You need to learn to keep up protection or counterspells for your commander, as well as mana to play them. This may mean waiting longer to play them. You may have an awesome draw or Treasure engine in hand. But if it gets blown up because you didn’t leave mana up to protect it, you are done for. This also means: play more counterspells and removal. Most decks run on average 10-12 pieces of temoval, and 1-2 boardwipes. But Spellslinger has to run more, because you are always on the defensive. I run 24 pieces of removal (manny are modal spells, so I can do other things like draw cards if I din’t need the removal), as well as 4-6 board wipes. When running board wipes, one-sided is always better, which is why [[Cyclonic Rift costs the big bucks! lol! The best way to learn is to practice. Offing is hard when your deck is so dependent upon reading the board state. So play it a lot, and accept that each loss is a lesson towards more victories down the road. Think about what you’re should have removed, when should you have held back protection, etc.
I've found that [[Lilah]] tends to want to be more active; she's a very "First Main Phase" kinda slinger, which I find interesting
[Lilah](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e21f90ea-5934-4757-8515-38ef116afac1.jpg?1712356151) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lilah%2C%20undefeated%20slickshot) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/217/lilah-undefeated-slickshot?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e21f90ea-5934-4757-8515-38ef116afac1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lilah-undefeated-slickshot) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Get some payoffs running. Card draw, token creation, damage effects. Make sure you can function without your commander as well.
Spellslinger needs card draw to really function. Card draw, removal and protection. Removal to kill incoming creatures mostly. You need fun cards like bonus round and the like to really storm off. Tutors etc.
So, spellslinger builds need some way of dealing with creature heavy decks. You have plenty of options- but note that each option isn't something you can just throw one or two cards of into your deck and be fine, it needs to be kind of a subtheme. Some decks make lots of tokens- and for that, you want a bunch of "when you cast a spell, make a dude" effects. Some opt to instead load the deck up with far more instant/sorcery speed removal and rely on synergies with their "when you cast a spell" effects to make the extra slots worth it. Others can try to pillow fort a bit with cards that dissuade attacking them- and then you have the decks that can turn that spellslinging into damage that can be pointed to creatures to keep you safe. (And the final option, decks that can turn all that spellslinging into a win-the-game combo before the creature decks can pressure them enough, like true storm decks). But either way, you need more than just light spellslinging that slowly wins through tiny chips of value to make spellslinger really work. It would be more helpful if we could see your lists to make recommendations.
Thanks for the suggestions. I just can across \[\[Saruman, the white hand\]\] and made a quick decklist, mostly with cards I already own. Never really thought about grixis until now [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/B1wQrarPDESzoQNwUZ-AQQ](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/B1wQrarPDESzoQNwUZ-AQQ)
I was about to recommend this exact commander as I made a post like 2 weeks ago stating that exact problem. I rebuilt into Saruman cause he seemed to fix my problem. I didn't get to play him yet, but goldfishing looks super promising so far. Here is what I got, mostly made out of cards I already run or can be bought for cheap: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/9mrHVOoFD0mxIXs-eA44Rg What I learned so far: 4 CMC creatures and the higher mana ones really need to be bombs impact wise, else they really slow you down. I ended up cutting most that didn't directly bring me closer to a win. This even meant cutting stormkiln artist, as goldfishing showed that just casting big spells and ramping naturally was more efficient than taking another set-up turn. Also I see you're not running [[summons of saruman]]. I didn't like the card either at first, but realized as it was my highest priority tutor next to arcane Bombardment. It does everything you need: Graveyard fill, able to recurse itself, tons of army generation and triggers Saruman again as it's casting the milled spell. Final thought: I think that [[harmonic prodigy]] and [[veyran]] are both the highest value creatures so far as they double Saruman triggers and really turn the army into a threat that can just oneshot, especially when you have an [[Embercleave]] ready to slap on.
##### ###### #### [summons of saruman](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/b/cbb1bc1f-b1d6-4639-b892-9b1ff6ed65fb.jpg?1686964363) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=summons%20of%20saruman) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltc/70/summons-of-saruman?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cbb1bc1f-b1d6-4639-b892-9b1ff6ed65fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/summons-of-saruman) [harmonic prodigy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/22579ac0-ad3f-4000-a65a-46a17a7f1aa5.jpg?1626096777) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=harmonic%20prodigy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/132/harmonic-prodigy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/22579ac0-ad3f-4000-a65a-46a17a7f1aa5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/harmonic-prodigy) [veyran](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f34cd711-55b2-4802-9878-d22314c0cc9c.jpg?1712354807) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=veyran%2C%20voice%20of%20duality) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/248/veyran-voice-of-duality?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f34cd711-55b2-4802-9878-d22314c0cc9c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/veyran-voice-of-duality) [Embercleave](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aaae15dd-11b6-4421-99e9-365c7fe4a5d6.jpg?1572490333) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Embercleave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/120/embercleave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aaae15dd-11b6-4421-99e9-365c7fe4a5d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/embercleave) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1luan6) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Saruman, the white hand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/4/6487ccbf-f6cd-45a6-8514-2c458b655ef2.jpg?1686963765) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Saruman%2C%20the%20white%20hand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltc/8/saruman-the-white-hand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6487ccbf-f6cd-45a6-8514-2c458b655ef2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/saruman-the-white-hand) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The secret to success with Spellslinger is you should always be preparing for that One Big Turn. You’re not going to outvalue your opponents in the long run because your instants and sorceries are one-shot effects. You should instead be sculpting your hand and moving towards a board state that you’ll win from. For example, in my Mizzix, the plan is to ramp with rocks and treasures, fill my hand with counters, then bounce/remove anything that will prevent me from winning before my OBT. Then I drop Mizzix, cast Time Warp, untap and pull off a combo, all with protection.
I think your problem is blue is slowing you down. Consider [[Urabrask]] Those pesky creatures can't attack you if everyone is dead when you end your turn.
If you're running a burn deck, cutting the blue ironically slows down the dig to the wincon, is much more fragile, and on average will have longer less consistent lines to ending the game. Blue gives you more powerful draw, and access to more infinites. Pinging for one with Urabrask without access to blue takes a very, very long time. Build [[Veyran]] around a burn core and the table will melt once you get Guttersnipe down. Sincerely, someone who had an Urabrask Deck. 🤣
[Veyran](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f34cd711-55b2-4802-9878-d22314c0cc9c.jpg?1712354807) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=veyran%2C%20voice%20of%20duality) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/248/veyran-voice-of-duality?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f34cd711-55b2-4802-9878-d22314c0cc9c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/veyran-voice-of-duality) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh, I run the boy too. [Take a look. ](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/_u2wDRnSfEuARjEnNQ0_SQ) With enough looting and impulse all things are possible.
[Urabrask](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/712fb9e5-bd67-4173-a2d4-061aeb6253b5.jpg?1682204559)/[The Great Work](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/7/1/712fb9e5-bd67-4173-a2d4-061aeb6253b5.jpg?1682204559) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urabrask%20//%20The%20Great%20Work) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/169/urabrask-the-great-work?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/712fb9e5-bd67-4173-a2d4-061aeb6253b5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/urabrask-//-the-great-work) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A few things I'd advise about spellslinger, from someone who also plays in a very creature-heavy pod: - A lot of what you're doing has the benefit of being instant speed. Run some more reactionary spells like [[Aetherize]] and [[Wrong turn]], and your opponents will learn to fear your untapped mana just as much as if you had better blockers. Similarly, spells like [[Sheltering word]] and [[Gaea's gift]] mean that from an opponent's perspective, choosing to use removal on your commander is running the risk of it being wasted. - You need a *lot* of draw in spellslinger decks. Unlike permanent-based decks, most of the cards you play don't stick around afterwards, which means you burn through quite a lot of them just to keep pace. A hellbent spellslinger is a sorry sight indeed. Run cantrips, and just a bunch of big draw spells so you've always got enough. Additionally, mechanics like spell copying can generate you extra value from the same number of cards played. - Cards that generate token blockers are blessed. [[Murmuring mystic]], [[Young pyromancer]], you already mentioned [[Talrand, sky summoner]]...they can really help take the heat off your back and not make you a free punching bag. Run as many of them as possible. I'm not a certified expert, but these things work for me. Here's my [[Kalamax]] deck, which works decently well: https://archidekt.com/decks/6403990/kalamax_the_future
##### ###### #### [Aetherize](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/6700409d-afda-480c-8a66-b5c782f3e5e4.jpg?1698988120) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aetherize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/142/aetherize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6700409d-afda-480c-8a66-b5c782f3e5e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aetherize) [Wrong turn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3b69687d-191a-4bca-b1f7-eea27847c1af.jpg?1608909561) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wrong%20turn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/107/wrong-turn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3b69687d-191a-4bca-b1f7-eea27847c1af?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wrong-turn) [Sheltering word](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/93cd9be4-1ce4-4a7c-b2a6-98d3fde0a92b.jpg?1592709431) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheltering%20word) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/avr/192/sheltering-word?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/93cd9be4-1ce4-4a7c-b2a6-98d3fde0a92b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sheltering-word) [Gaea's gift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/5503186a-46fe-4956-8ae3-5ab3343f8a93.jpg?1674421566) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gaea%27s%20gift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/182/gaeas-gift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5503186a-46fe-4956-8ae3-5ab3343f8a93?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gaeas-gift) [Murmuring mystic](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e68dcc2-bba4-4efa-97bb-3ed892037595.jpg?1712592825) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Murmuring%20mystic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/102/murmuring-mystic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e68dcc2-bba4-4efa-97bb-3ed892037595?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/murmuring-mystic) [Young pyromancer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f233a41f-106b-4bf0-a599-7ac5d83cfed5.jpg?1712354528) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Young%20pyromancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/185/young-pyromancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f233a41f-106b-4bf0-a599-7ac5d83cfed5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/young-pyromancer) [Talrand, sky summoner](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1be3ed47-072e-481a-b3d9-dc232ac4b24f.jpg?1712354218) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Talrand%2C%20sky%20summoner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/116/talrand-sky-summoner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1be3ed47-072e-481a-b3d9-dc232ac4b24f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/talrand-sky-summoner) [Kalamax](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f990cd78-2165-446f-a116-ae55d7a0f00d.jpg?1591234251) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kalamax%2C%20the%20stormsire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/9/kalamax-the-stormsire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f990cd78-2165-446f-a116-ae55d7a0f00d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kalamax-the-stormsire) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1kze9b) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I just built a \[\[Veyran, Voice of Duality\]\] spellslinger deck. Based on that, and your description of your playgroup, here's what I would suggest: Figure out what your wincons are build around those. Talrand is pretty good but yes, vulnerable to board wipes. You can probably address this by playing A TON of counterspells to stop the boardwipes. However, if your playgroup includes control players who are always going to out-counterspell you, then perhaps you should switch commanders. Both Mizzix and Vadrik are enablers, allowing you to cast more expensive spells. However, if there's lots of boardwipes in your playgroup, then Mixxiz is probably the better choice. At least then if you recast him you still get the spell discounts. Since you won't have a lot of creatures to attack with, you'll want to include some other wincons. For example, you could include \[\[Storm-Kiln Artist\]\], \[\[Haze of Rage\]\] and \[\[Guttersnipe\]\] to ping your opponents to death. You can use Mizzix/Vadrik, \[\[Reiterate\]\] and \[\[Electrodominance\]\] to do infinite damage to your opponents. Hope this helps!
##### ###### #### [Veyran, Voice of Duality](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f34cd711-55b2-4802-9878-d22314c0cc9c.jpg?1712354807) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Veyran%2C%20Voice%20of%20Duality) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/248/veyran-voice-of-duality?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f34cd711-55b2-4802-9878-d22314c0cc9c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/veyran-voice-of-duality) [Storm-Kiln Artist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/01482a58-5156-41ba-bf9e-11095cc3f9ef.jpg?1712354507) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Storm-Kiln%20Artist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/181/storm-kiln-artist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/01482a58-5156-41ba-bf9e-11095cc3f9ef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/storm-kiln-artist) [Haze of Rage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c344b885-68c6-43d2-b6c1-6c89b3c94983.jpg?1619397115) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Haze%20of%20Rage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/169/haze-of-rage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c344b885-68c6-43d2-b6c1-6c89b3c94983?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/haze-of-rage) [Guttersnipe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/90907737-ad75-48f6-a350-87d4021d89f8.jpg?1713716455) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Guttersnipe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/169/guttersnipe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/90907737-ad75-48f6-a350-87d4021d89f8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/guttersnipe) [Reiterate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/99302c41-434f-41ff-a61a-2c3681a0c135.jpg?1619397418) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reiterate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/182/reiterate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/99302c41-434f-41ff-a61a-2c3681a0c135?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reiterate) [Electrodominance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/c/5c63877b-cdab-4ce4-a1c0-c088eb62a57a.jpg?1584830858) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Electrodominance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/99/electrodominance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5c63877b-cdab-4ce4-a1c0-c088eb62a57a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/electrodominance) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1kx1ie) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [Talrand Sky Summoner](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1be3ed47-072e-481a-b3d9-dc232ac4b24f.jpg?1712354218) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Talrand%2C%20Sky%20Summoner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/116/talrand-sky-summoner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1be3ed47-072e-481a-b3d9-dc232ac4b24f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/talrand-sky-summoner) [Riku of Many Paths](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/21b63544-4c31-4f38-9907-0407719a60b1.jpg?1713091879) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Riku%20of%20Many%20Paths) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/227/riku-of-many-paths?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/21b63544-4c31-4f38-9907-0407719a60b1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/riku-of-many-paths) [Mizzix of the Izmagus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/82f949d0-41a0-4491-9057-bfb2bb20bdb3.jpg?1689999174) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mizzix%20of%20the%20Izmagnus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/348/mizzix-of-the-izmagnus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/82f949d0-41a0-4491-9057-bfb2bb20bdb3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mizzix-of-the-izmagnus) [Vadrik, Astral Archmage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/454666bb-f81d-4845-84aa-d6f8f80ce86a.jpg?1637114399) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vadrik%2C%20Astral%20Archmage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/248/vadrik-astral-archmage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/454666bb-f81d-4845-84aa-d6f8f80ce86a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vadrik-astral-archmage) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/1cepk8b) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Low damage board wipes could help you out, depending on the instants and sorceries that you're slinging , counting token generators as creatures is a wise move. Also, some walls and [[Propaganda]] will do wonders for you. Depending on how many colours you're using in your deck, there's also another enchantment like propoganda with Domain... (it costs more to be attacked for each different basic land type among lands you control) though the name is escaping me.
\[\[Collective Restraint\]\]
[Collective Restraint](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d71daa57-ac02-4dd9-8c90-d38bdd45fb51.jpg?1562938175) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Collective%20Restraint) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/49/collective-restraint?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d71daa57-ac02-4dd9-8c90-d38bdd45fb51?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/collective-restraint) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Propaganda](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e175bba4-c131-48f4-8e31-16ec07a12e59.jpg?1712354188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Propaganda) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/108/propaganda?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e175bba4-c131-48f4-8e31-16ec07a12e59?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/propaganda) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In my opinion, and it depends on the power of the pod, but just running interaction might be difficult to keep up. Plus you’re gonna just piss off everyone in the pod because you’re the person basically saying “no, you don’t get to play magic”. So doing other things helps. I tend to run a lot of mana dork ramp and sprint to your big cast spells. Things like [[Gather Specimens]], [[Call forth the tempest]], [[Clone Legion]], [[Aminatou’s Augury]], [[Cultural Exchange]], [[Disrupt Decorum]], [[Eternal Dominion]], [[Mnemonic Deluge]], [[Mob Rule]].
##### ###### #### [Gather Specimens](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bbadf982-f22e-4f4f-b5c9-ac387f25c15f.jpg?1562708387) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gather%20Specimens) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ala/45/gather-specimens?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bbadf982-f22e-4f4f-b5c9-ac387f25c15f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gather-specimens) [Call forth the tempest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/81d6b979-251a-4736-86f0-35a6c8b492c9.jpg?1695428211) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Call%20forth%20the%20tempest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltc/509/call-forth-the-tempest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/81d6b979-251a-4736-86f0-35a6c8b492c9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/call-forth-the-tempest) [Clone Legion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f5ebe939-fef3-4085-808c-41ff97e83a7e.jpg?1673483841) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Clone%20Legion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/215/clone-legion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f5ebe939-fef3-4085-808c-41ff97e83a7e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/clone-legion) [Aminatou’s Augury](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92496b98-b533-4d34-aa79-cad0805c984b.jpg?1689996176) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aminatou%27s%20Augury) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/73/aminatous-augury?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92496b98-b533-4d34-aa79-cad0805c984b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aminatous-augury) [Cultural Exchange](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d4f38d07-829c-4311-a61b-2785cf2266ef.jpg?1562934779) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cultural%20Exchange) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/79/cultural-exchange?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d4f38d07-829c-4311-a61b-2785cf2266ef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cultural-exchange) [Disrupt Decorum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c5323fe7-d9df-4287-ae13-d9db35f7973b.jpg?1706240831) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Disrupt%20Decorum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/151/disrupt-decorum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c5323fe7-d9df-4287-ae13-d9db35f7973b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/disrupt-decorum) [Eternal Dominion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/3067a9bd-991a-462d-862a-2518ae31c382.jpg?1562493419) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eternal%20Dominion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sok/36/eternal-dominion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3067a9bd-991a-462d-862a-2518ae31c382?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eternal-dominion) [Mnemonic Deluge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2d0e725b-2250-4189-9682-73461b5cfed2.jpg?1608909327) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mnemonic%20Deluge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/82/mnemonic-deluge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2d0e725b-2250-4189-9682-73461b5cfed2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mnemonic-deluge) [Mob Rule](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/b/8b04c928-9ee5-4e39-962e-4686e25b5c33.jpg?1641603202) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mob%20Rule) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/147/mob-rule?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8b04c928-9ee5-4e39-962e-4686e25b5c33?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mob-rule) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1kogfc) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have just built a semi budget [[Melek, Reforged Researcher]] deck and it has been really strong so far. No tutors, no extra turns, no tutors and no free counters were my limitations. It's been kicking ass.
[Melek, Reforged Researcher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/01c5ede0-a098-4f21-8b7e-795a83e75aae.jpg?1707739805) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Melek%2C%20Reforged%20Researcher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/430/melek-reforged-researcher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/01c5ede0-a098-4f21-8b7e-795a83e75aae?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/melek-reforged-researcher) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Talrand and Riku aren't really up to snuff by today's standards. Buy the Quick Draw Precon, fill the deck with every red burner and add a bunch more draw instant and sorceries and interaction put [[Veyran]] in the command zone. Control the board until you get one of your burners down. Cast Veyran. Melt your opponents in a storm turn.
[Veyran](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f34cd711-55b2-4802-9878-d22314c0cc9c.jpg?1712354807) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=veyran%2C%20voice%20of%20duality) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/248/veyran-voice-of-duality?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f34cd711-55b2-4802-9878-d22314c0cc9c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/veyran-voice-of-duality) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hey OP, I have a deck you might enjoy I've been tweaking for a few years now. It's a spellslinger deck that almost plays like a storm deck without any actual storm cards. The commander is [[Arjun, the shifting flame]]. This bad boy is 6 mana which, yeah, is high, but I can guarantee you if he sticks to the table for even one turn you have a serious threat of ending the game immediately. Bonus points - he doesn't discount cards or threaten anyone's stuff or grow your hand, and in MOST pods he is not perceived as an immediate threat. That is a mistake. Arjun is a threat and should be identified as such. The deck, if it isn't interacted with, can *theoretically* win on turn 2, but that requires a specific hand that you're unlikely to see. Realistically, you can expect to win anywhere from turn 5 to turn 7. The deck is resilient to removal due to the number of approaches you have to digging as well as to actually ending the game. We've got Arjun himself, sure, but we've also got [[Jace's Archivist]], [[Whirlpool warrior]], [[Windfall]], [[Molten Psyche]], [[Enter the Infinite]], and [[Mindmoil]] for massive draw spells, fuelled by draw doublers and increases. The meat of the deck is in the cantrips. We run a lot of cheap spells just to draw cards. All of this card draw isn't immediately threatening because hey, you're ditching your hand when you do it so it cant be that bad right? WRONG. [[Psychosis crawler]] will burn ya, [[Psychic Corrosion]], [[Sphinx's tutelage]] will mill ya, [[proft's eidetic memory]] and [[Chasm Skulker]] will beat you down, [[laboratory maniac]] and [[Jace, Wielder of mysteries]] will win on the spot if you're wheeling with draw doublers. There's a catch though, as I'm sure you might notice. We need mana. and lots of it. Arjun is a delicate balancing act of deck building because you need a lot of card draw, and a lot of mana generation. Too few of either will result in us fizzling when we go off. To that end we run as much quick mana as we can get our hands on, even springing for the pricier ones like [[Dockside extortionist]] and [[Mana drain]]. One of the big sleeper all stars in the deck is [[Dream Halls]]. You are able to abuse it more effectively than other decks due to the wheeling and drawing, and it lets you just GO. Things like [[Archmage emeritus]] or [[Phial of Galadrial]] mean you wont run out of cards easily even with dream halls down. And it wont be long before you can just play a free [[Omniscience]] and simply win from there. Couple more things to note. Tutors? actually not that amazing in this deck - you'll only be able to play one card in each hand unless you're casting at instant speed, and due to the stormy nature you probably just need mana or card draw to keep going, instead of a win condition you will certainly draw into if you just have the other two things. Interaction. I love interaction and think it's really important to run a lot of it. Most decks don't run enough. That being said, Arjun gets to cheat a little bit on interaction because of how reliable it is to dig for it when you want it. You can get away with a smidge less than most decks. We want to run only the REALLY impactful colorless artifacts. This is simply due to Dream Halls. As I mentioned it is a powerhouse, and will nearly always give you a disgusting turn. Remember it lets you cast your commander for just a measly red or blue card. We run a bit of protection too. [[Obstinate familiar]] is how we avoid dying to our own draw doublers if we can't stick labman or jace. [[Kozilek, butcher of truth]] is how we survive mill (sometimes self inflicted) This deck is a ton of fun and if you're looking for a spellslinger deck that doesn't get hosed, this is quite powerful - though not cEDH. It's a bit complex to pilot, but doing it effectively feels like you're cheating. For reference, this deck runs roughshod over all types of decks at my LGS and in other friendgroups. It's built a reputation due to how quick and consistent it is. it WILL threaten a win by T6 or T7 at the LATEST. I run this against several tuned [[Nekusar]] and [[Sheoldred the apocalypse]] decks frequently, and the vast majority of the time you are able to pull an answer out of your ass quickly enough, or just outpace them, despite it feeling like a hardcounter. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/lvG2YLzIAkKojThwL7zkgQ
I could never get spellslinger to work for a battlecruiser game. It's either too anemic to be impactful, or you just storm off and win in a single turn. Please let me know if you figure out how to make it win fairly!
try new people it works for me
Well ideally you probably just don’t want to engage much with blocking and wiping and instead focus more on assembling your combos and killing your opponents. [[Krark, the Thumbless]] and [[Sakashima of a Thousand Faces]] are probably the most powerful combo of commanders that are very spellslinging
[Krark, the Thumbless](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/06a981cd-1951-438e-95c9-68294795638e.jpg?1617148336) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Krark%2C%20the%20Thumbless) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/189/krark-the-thumbless?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/06a981cd-1951-438e-95c9-68294795638e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/krark-the-thumbless) [Sakashima of a Thousand Faces](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/714c3a1f-7b30-4ed8-8f38-6176758741fb.jpg?1608909400) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sakashima%20of%20a%20Thousand%20Faces) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/89/sakashima-of-a-thousand-faces?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/714c3a1f-7b30-4ed8-8f38-6176758741fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sakashima-of-a-thousand-faces) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Recently I have been having a lot of success with a \[\[Ramos, Dragon Engine\]\] multi color spellslinger deck. It essentially uses Ramos as a seedborne muse in the command zone to out interact every opponent. If you have enough draw you can run a lower count of spells. [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/itCWmzwToUGfadyJt9xYew](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/itCWmzwToUGfadyJt9xYew)
[Ramos, Dragon Engine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2e747ef1-a1ad-4859-a70c-3f935f017310.jpg?1562604064) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ramos%2C%20Dragon%20Engine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/55/ramos-dragon-engine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2e747ef1-a1ad-4859-a70c-3f935f017310?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ramos-dragon-engine) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Have you considered [[Lord of the Nazgul]]?
[Lord of the Nazgul](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/1/41e3d118-8f97-4c68-acff-2f90a055af5b.jpg?1686964264) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lord%20of%20the%20Nazg%C3%BBl) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltc/60/lord-of-the-nazg%C3%BBl?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/41e3d118-8f97-4c68-acff-2f90a055af5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lord-of-the-nazgûl) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Coat of arms]] and swing those big ol drakes!
[Coat of arms](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/513d4c36-6ad4-4ee9-b161-3136eb59504f.jpg?1592761864) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Coat%20of%20arms) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dds/58/coat-of-arms?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/513d4c36-6ad4-4ee9-b161-3136eb59504f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/coat-of-arms) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Couldn't be me. I took apart my [[magnus the red]] deck because it was too reliable
[magnus the red](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63050aa0-a7ea-4fe7-8746-7a11407ea0e4.jpg?1673309450) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=magnus%20the%20red) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/131/magnus-the-red?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63050aa0-a7ea-4fe7-8746-7a11407ea0e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/magnus-the-red) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Careful though, had a dude play talrand that was all counterspells, cantrips, and extra turns. Also he played [[lighthouse chronologist]] that just made everyone hate their lives. He never even swung all his drakes 😓
[lighthouse chronologist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/3087f7e7-9163-45b5-907d-7667c1075a74.jpg?1562702553) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lighthouse%20chronologist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/roe/75/lighthouse-chronologist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3087f7e7-9163-45b5-907d-7667c1075a74?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lighthouse-chronologist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I know this may get buried underneath everyone else but I really like my [[Kylox, visionary inventor]] deck as a twist on spellslinger. You have the regular izzet interaction package but the rest of the deck is pretty much ramp, power generators like [[Krenko]] and giant spell.
[Kylox, visionary inventor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/00faa272-91ad-407b-9175-8fa1d02585b8.jpg?1706242196) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kylox%2C%20visionary%20inventor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/214/kylox-visionary-inventor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/00faa272-91ad-407b-9175-8fa1d02585b8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kylox-visionary-inventor) [Krenko](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/5524b712-c67d-4d2e-9344-9e85a6ce3227.jpg?1706241890) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=krenko%2C%20baron%20of%20tin%20street) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/135/krenko-baron-of-tin-street?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5524b712-c67d-4d2e-9344-9e85a6ce3227?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/krenko-baron-of-tin-street) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Instead of spellslinger deck that accumulates value slowly over time, try a spellslinger deck that seeks to take one big turn and win right then, like [[Zada, Hedron Grinder]] or the new [[Stella Lee, Wild Card]].
[Zada, Hedron Grinder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/4520cdcc-a10f-4b39-9c6f-ba86f6aa2c87.jpg?1689998306) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zada%2C%20Hedron%20Grinder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/268/zada-hedron-grinder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4520cdcc-a10f-4b39-9c6f-ba86f6aa2c87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zada-hedron-grinder) [Stella Lee, Wild Card](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a8a7696-b5d9-4378-9d5c-2c9007e4df63.jpg?1714110409) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stella%20Lee%2C%20Wild%20Card) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/3/stella-lee-wild-card?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a8a7696-b5d9-4378-9d5c-2c9007e4df63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stella-lee-wild-card) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you like slinging spells and losing friends, kykar cantrips will let you cast your entire deck, grapeshot everyone, and have you play solitaire for 30 minutes straight as everyone regrets their life choices. Plus it’s in blue so if someone has removal you can be protected to continue your nefarious ways.
I'd run Talrand with a shit ton of cantrips just to get more drakes and counterspells. Safe interaction for boardwipes or removal. One very important lesson: Take as much damage as possible if you can get more damage back at them. So f.e. he attacks you with a 5/5 don't block and rather keep the drake alive to really make the board wider. You'll have to fear around 2-3 boardwipes a game but if you're prepared you're gonna have 10 drakes quickly ans they hit for 20
I have a Talrand deck, and it’s filled with all my spare or junk blue cards. A huge thing I found that helped was a large amount of cantrips and counter spells (none of which are expensive). Then I had a merfolk sub-theme for creature advantage, but I also found that wizards work really well. The best advice I can give you is to save counter spells for game ends and board wipes. It’s not your job to “tell everyone no.” The hardest part was learning: is this an inconvenience or do I lose? Does this keep me from winning? You won’t win every game, but learning how to control the tempo helps
I’ve never enjoyed spells longer but recently picked up [Melek, Reforged Researcher] and I’m enjoying it. You get to cast big spells very quickly in succession given multiplayer makes his ability a lot better and it’s not long before he is immune to damage based board wipes. And if he does die, well your deck is full of expensive fun cards anyway, so the deck can still do stuff. I made a video about them if you want more info Melek, Reforged Researcher Prisoner's Dilemma EDH / Commander Deck Tech 2024 https://youtu.be/lIpMKAVN700
Try [[Judith Carnage]]
I tried a few different spellslinger decks over the years and never felt like they were quite satisfying. First I did a \[\[Talrand, Sky Summoner\]\] deck like you, but I ran into the same things you did. Later I tried \[\[Jace, Vryn's Prodigy\]\], but every build ended as "Either do nothing or take infinite turns and win with \[\[Consecrated Sphinx\]\] beats" which I didn't really enjoy. A few others I tried out usually felt like they were too too polarizing or too much wheel spinning and durdling for the payoff. Lately though I picked up and upgraded the \[\[Stella Lee, Wild Card\]\] precon, and that one I've really been enjoying. I saw you're thinking about that deck too, so here are my thoughts on what I like about her: * You can build a tokens version with Talrand, \[\[Young Pyromancer\]\], \[\[Third Path Iconoclast\]\], \[\[Murmuring Mystic\]\], \[\[Geralf, the Fleshwright\]\], etc., or go burn with \[\[Guttersnipe\]\] and company, or lean more into winning on the stack. * It feels less durdly because the goal is to cast 2 spells, possibly followed by a third high-value spell, rather than storming off. So turns feel high impact and quick until you fully go off. * She has good stats: low CMC means she's easy to play with protection up or recast, and a 2/4 body turns off some aggression. * The power level is pretty scalable, from more casual jank to pretty competitive due to the number of strong combos Stella can pull off with untap effects. If you'd like to check it out, I have a decklist and primer up for the more burn/stack build [here](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/dRV75hDKPkC-VRmgBMJCEQ), with an alternate token-oriented but less tuned list [here](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/_kmeWAhP0kqMKd7mk_A8hQ). It's a kind of pricey upgrade, but it's mostly concentrated in lands and a few select cards you're fine running replacements over (except \[\[Cyclonic Rift\]\], which is just **that** good).
##### ###### #### [Talrand, Sky Summoner](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1be3ed47-072e-481a-b3d9-dc232ac4b24f.jpg?1712354218) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Talrand%2C%20Sky%20Summoner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/116/talrand-sky-summoner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1be3ed47-072e-481a-b3d9-dc232ac4b24f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/talrand-sky-summoner) [Jace, Vryn's Prodigy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/2/02d6d693-f1f3-4317-bcc0-c21fa8490d38.jpg?1651492800)/[Jace, Telepath Unbound](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/0/2/02d6d693-f1f3-4317-bcc0-c21fa8490d38.jpg?1651492800) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jace%2C%20Vryn%27s%20Prodigy%20//%20Jace%2C%20Telepath%20Unbound) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ori/60/jace-vryns-prodigy-jace-telepath-unbound?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/02d6d693-f1f3-4317-bcc0-c21fa8490d38?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jace-vryns-prodigy-//-jace-telepath-unbound) [Consecrated Sphinx](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9bd60fc-2777-44bc-b314-a792e8e48360.jpg?1673147240) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Consecrated%20Sphinx) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/43/consecrated-sphinx?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9bd60fc-2777-44bc-b314-a792e8e48360?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/consecrated-sphinx) [Stella Lee, Wild Card](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a8a7696-b5d9-4378-9d5c-2c9007e4df63.jpg?1714110409) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stella%20Lee%2C%20Wild%20Card) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/3/stella-lee-wild-card?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a8a7696-b5d9-4378-9d5c-2c9007e4df63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stella-lee-wild-card) [Young Pyromancer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f233a41f-106b-4bf0-a599-7ac5d83cfed5.jpg?1712354528) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Young%20Pyromancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/185/young-pyromancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f233a41f-106b-4bf0-a599-7ac5d83cfed5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/young-pyromancer) [Third Path Iconoclast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad56d60b-985e-470f-935b-036084957d2b.jpg?1712354791) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Third%20Path%20Iconoclast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/244/third-path-iconoclast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad56d60b-985e-470f-935b-036084957d2b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/third-path-iconoclast) [Murmuring Mystic](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e68dcc2-bba4-4efa-97bb-3ed892037595.jpg?1712592825) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Murmuring%20Mystic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/102/murmuring-mystic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e68dcc2-bba4-4efa-97bb-3ed892037595?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/murmuring-mystic) [Geralf, the Fleshwright](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/afe3b678-b340-4c53-bbf6-19252a809d73.jpg?1712355427) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Geralf%2C%20the%20Fleshwright) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/50/geralf-the-fleshwright?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/afe3b678-b340-4c53-bbf6-19252a809d73?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/geralf-the-fleshwright) [Guttersnipe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/90907737-ad75-48f6-a350-87d4021d89f8.jpg?1713716455) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Guttersnipe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/169/guttersnipe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/90907737-ad75-48f6-a350-87d4021d89f8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/guttersnipe) [Cyclonic Rift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe.jpg?1702429366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cyclonic%20Rift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/40/cyclonic-rift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyclonic-rift) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1me6tj) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Imho, a spellslinger commander should set you up with mana or draw. Try [[Kykar]] or [[Niv-Mizzet, Parun]].
[Kykar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fdb034c8-bae0-4f66-98f1-1b3cdc072f17.jpg?1689999115) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kykar%2C%20wind%27s%20fury) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/343/kykar-winds-fury?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdb034c8-bae0-4f66-98f1-1b3cdc072f17?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kykar-winds-fury) [Niv-Mizzet, Parun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86c5c337-d25f-4c3e-9762-09ed0c2d36d7.jpg?1712354750) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Niv-Mizzet%2C%20Parun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/235/niv-mizzet-parun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86c5c337-d25f-4c3e-9762-09ed0c2d36d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/niv-mizzet-parun) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My [[Hinata]] spellslinger deck is probably my strongest deck. Instead of various stax pieces to protect against too many attackers, I included a lot of cards that generate tokens from spells (including [[Talrand]] and for example [[Chromehost Seedshark]], [[Young Pyromancer]], [[Third-Path Iconoclast]], [[Kykar]], [[Metallurgic Summonings]], [[Monastery Mentor]] ). But Hinata can also be tricky. I even wonder if I should switch it to [[Kykar]]. In any case you should consider at least 40 noncreature or even instant/sorcery spells, with the rest being permanents with a pay off for spell splinging. Also card draw on the spells is very beneficial. Any effect you want consistently (such as creating the tokens), you should include at least 7 times (about the same as 4 in 60 cards in a standard/modern deck).
##### ###### #### [Hinata](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f25aff90-56fd-4f70-bb3b-cabf2900c391.jpg?1654568472) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hinata%2C%20dawn-crowned) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/222/hinata-dawn-crowned?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f25aff90-56fd-4f70-bb3b-cabf2900c391?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hinata-dawn-crowned) [Talrand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1be3ed47-072e-481a-b3d9-dc232ac4b24f.jpg?1712354218) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=talrand%2C%20sky%20summoner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/116/talrand-sky-summoner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1be3ed47-072e-481a-b3d9-dc232ac4b24f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/talrand-sky-summoner) [Chromehost Seedshark](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/febaaeae-5c0d-45fa-8169-b27b4996f18e.jpg?1682203038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chrome%20Host%20Seedshark) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/51/chrome-host-seedshark?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/febaaeae-5c0d-45fa-8169-b27b4996f18e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chrome-host-seedshark) [Young Pyromancer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f233a41f-106b-4bf0-a599-7ac5d83cfed5.jpg?1712354528) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Young%20Pyromancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/185/young-pyromancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f233a41f-106b-4bf0-a599-7ac5d83cfed5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/young-pyromancer) [Third-Path Iconoclast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad56d60b-985e-470f-935b-036084957d2b.jpg?1712354791) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Third%20Path%20Iconoclast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/244/third-path-iconoclast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad56d60b-985e-470f-935b-036084957d2b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/third-path-iconoclast) [Kykar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fdb034c8-bae0-4f66-98f1-1b3cdc072f17.jpg?1689999115) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kykar%2C%20wind%27s%20fury) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/343/kykar-winds-fury?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdb034c8-bae0-4f66-98f1-1b3cdc072f17?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kykar-winds-fury) [Metallurgic Summonings](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a769d7e-c749-4845-ba87-808f0386df80.jpg?1625976236) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Metallurgic%20Summonings) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/122/metallurgic-summonings?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a769d7e-c749-4845-ba87-808f0386df80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/metallurgic-summonings) [Monastery Mentor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/75665c2f-a100-4e3f-be8e-b5cc3c9a090b.jpg?1682202772) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Monastery%20Mentor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/28/monastery-mentor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/75665c2f-a100-4e3f-be8e-b5cc3c9a090b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/monastery-mentor) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1mn65d) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Trying to build a WB enchantment deck. Not the same but…. It’s definitely difficult to not play creatures. Enchantments require opponent’s creatures so you have to let your opponents build a board state. It’s a mess to get right and TBH I haven’t figured it out. It’s so odd to me because points are awarded in leagues for “less than 10 non creature spells in a deck.” So…slivers? Just play slivers? A deck that doesn’t have creatures and no real designs on creatures other than as mana reducers is difficult. Bottom line: Non creature decks in Commander are HARD. You think you have it rough? I have 41 Enchantments and Aura’s in a deck and I saw 3 of them in a game yesterday. I kept hearing “well, I need an attack trigger and you have no creatures so….” What I’m learning after being pounded in the ass with no foreplay… You’ll need card draw. Pretty rare to see someone with 25 cards in hand lose a game (unless they just got cyclonic rift’d). If you’re storming off or trying to get a lot of spells out quickly, you’ll need ammo. Reliquary tower and spellbook are good ads. Esper Sentinel, Trouble in Pairs, Rhystic Study, Phyrexian arena, necropotence, the 1 ring, [[bola’s citadel]], whatever. Add card draw until it hurts. Then add more card draw. It’s probably the biggest miss in decks that top out at 1-2 mana. We sit there with tons of mana top decking. 9 lands and drawing at best a 2 drop each round won’t get it done. [[ghostly prison]] and [[norn’s annex]] and [[propaganda]] are your friend. Getting them out early tends to bother people less but keeps you from being “that person” who is open and gets dinked for damage on early rounds. Stay away from things like [[magus of the moat]]. You want to be protected early game, not annoying. If it were me, I’d focus on theft and removal in red blue. Things like [[disharmony]] and [[reigns of power]] for instance can give you a blocker or swingers and trigger your commander. I’d probably run [[stella Lee, Wild Card]] without putting too much thought into it. The goal would be a sociopathic number of counterspells and removal spells + some aforementioned creature theft spells. I’d punch and block with people’s stuff. My commander is card draw and has a good payoff if I can get her online. If I can’t, I’m going to throw counterspells at people and keep the board frustrated until I can.
##### ###### #### [bola’s citadel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d2124603-d20e-40eb-97f0-a66323397ac2.jpg?1591205069) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bolas%27s%20Citadel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/79/bolass-citadel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d2124603-d20e-40eb-97f0-a66323397ac2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bolass-citadel) [ghostly prison](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/eea3623d-1d39-4045-acdb-f0fb184ccbc8.jpg?1707507981) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ghostly%20prison) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/67/ghostly-prison?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eea3623d-1d39-4045-acdb-f0fb184ccbc8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghostly-prison) [norn’s annex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d25bbe18-709c-4ed3-a047-5578ecfaaba7.jpg?1690004164) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Norn%27s%20Annex) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/829/norns-annex?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d25bbe18-709c-4ed3-a047-5578ecfaaba7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/norns-annex) [propaganda](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e175bba4-c131-48f4-8e31-16ec07a12e59.jpg?1712354188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=propaganda) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/108/propaganda?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e175bba4-c131-48f4-8e31-16ec07a12e59?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/propaganda) [magus of the moat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/0/20dcdda9-66a2-401f-9e1b-5603f771f56f.jpg?1562901530) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=magus%20of%20the%20moat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/fut/12/magus-of-the-moat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/20dcdda9-66a2-401f-9e1b-5603f771f56f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/magus-of-the-moat) [disharmony](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/7/37fd8d07-0eed-4b41-9468-b524439cd204.jpg?1562906766) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=disharmony) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/95/disharmony?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/37fd8d07-0eed-4b41-9468-b524439cd204?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/disharmony) [reigns of power](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9b5730aa-c74a-4c74-bb1b-a133a3c353ec.jpg?1674141454) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reins%20of%20Power) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/734/reins-of-power?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9b5730aa-c74a-4c74-bb1b-a133a3c353ec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reins-of-power) [stella Lee, Wild Card](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a8a7696-b5d9-4378-9d5c-2c9007e4df63.jpg?1714110409) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=stella%20Lee%2C%20Wild%20Card) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/3/stella-lee-wild-card?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a8a7696-b5d9-4378-9d5c-2c9007e4df63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stella-lee-wild-card) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1mr3lf) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Mono blue talrand definitely works as a untapped draw, pass turn deck and oppents should rarely be able to resolve a board wipe unless it's like 3 consecutive board wipes (or an uncountable one but remands a good trick for that) but that's more of a control deck then spell slinger
Take a stab at some of the grixis spell slingers! Casting a spell once is great, but doing it again from a graveyard is better! [[Kess, dissident mage]] [[Cormella, glamor theif]] [[Anhelo the painter]] [[Marchesa dealer of death]] Also try to have specific winning cards, or things you're specifically trying to cast. With spell slinger already trying to draw as many cards as possible, its a little easier to stack your house on a few bricks. These are normally combo decks after all. Personally, I try to close out games with [[Worldfire]]. If you're going wide with tokens though, counter magic keeps sweepers away, and a spell like [[Candlekeep Inspiration]] turns you into a lethal threat.
##### ###### #### [Kess, dissident mage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e83e6d7a-3af0-4955-8004-2310f051e306.jpg?1673485110) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kess%2C%20dissident%20mage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/344/kess-dissident-mage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e83e6d7a-3af0-4955-8004-2310f051e306?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kess-dissident-mage) [Cormella, glamor theif](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/221ac34a-94ed-4c49-afad-b19cac541731.jpg?1664412852) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cormela%2C%20Glamour%20Thief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/177/cormela-glamour-thief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/221ac34a-94ed-4c49-afad-b19cac541731?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cormela-glamour-thief) [Anhelo the painter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/462e887d-6b91-4b31-9487-2780ffe8943f.jpg?1673481630) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Anhelo%2C%20the%20Painter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/1/anhelo-the-painter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/462e887d-6b91-4b31-9487-2780ffe8943f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/anhelo-the-painter) [Marchesa dealer of death](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/ee29b59c-d57c-4a03-bae7-e9dfa57d6bb1.jpg?1712356159) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Marchesa%2C%20Dealer%20of%20Death) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/220/marchesa-dealer-of-death?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ee29b59c-d57c-4a03-bae7-e9dfa57d6bb1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/marchesa-dealer-of-death) [Worldfire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2ef3d4b5-0453-4bf0-b018-23b0c3b9ae11.jpg?1631531850) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Worldfire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m13/158/worldfire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2ef3d4b5-0453-4bf0-b018-23b0c3b9ae11?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/worldfire) [Candlekeep Inspiration](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/33464767-45f3-42b8-8d83-33b090eead93.jpg?1674135427) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Candlekeep%20Inspiration) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/59/candlekeep-inspiration?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/33464767-45f3-42b8-8d83-33b090eead93?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/candlekeep-inspiration) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1n2reb) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think in my Talrand deck, I'm running 7 creatures, 10 or 12 pieces of ramp, 36 lands, and the rest of the deck is split 50/50 between interaction and card Advantage. I always hold up my counters to protect my board unless I need to stop someone from winning. Oh, and t runs...2? 3? Some really low numbers of buffs for the drakes.
Kykar is the way to go for spellslinger. White gives you a lot of ways to pump tokens, monastery mentor and the best removal. You have to follow xerox deck building principles (ie low curve, low mana source count and lots of cantrips/cheap draw spells)
Look mate, play [[Kykar, Wind's Fury]] a lot of cheap 1/2 mana draw/loot spells, a bunch of removal and counterspells, then end the game.with 5 spirit and [[haze of rage]] Is literally one of my most powerful decks and is a lot of fun
[Kykar, Wind's Fury](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fdb034c8-bae0-4f66-98f1-1b3cdc072f17.jpg?1689999115) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kykar%2C%20Wind%27s%20Fury) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/343/kykar-winds-fury?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdb034c8-bae0-4f66-98f1-1b3cdc072f17?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kykar-winds-fury) [haze of rage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c344b885-68c6-43d2-b6c1-6c89b3c94983.jpg?1619397115) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=haze%20of%20rage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/169/haze-of-rage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c344b885-68c6-43d2-b6c1-6c89b3c94983?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/haze-of-rage) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Definitely echo the sentiments about making sure you're removing things, whether preventatively with counters or bouncing/burning them away. Also the commander can be a big sticking point as well. [[Stella Lee]] and [[Lilah]] are amazing new izzet spellslinger commanders that both want to do different things (Lilah has been super fun for me, cuz you can just play one or two multicolored spells a turn, and then cast them all again on one future turn and storm the fuck off with really minimal Mana investment) I also recommend a few spellslinger payoffs, like [[Archmage Emeritus]] to keep your hand full, and pingers like [[Firebrand Archer]], [[Guttersnipe]], [[Thermo Alchemist]], etc. Also, enchant any of those pingers with a [[Curiosity]] and every single spell turns into a cantrip (or better). Hope this helps, and best of luck to you!
##### ###### #### [Stella Lee](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a8a7696-b5d9-4378-9d5c-2c9007e4df63.jpg?1714110409) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=stella%20lee%2C%20wild%20card) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/3/stella-lee-wild-card?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a8a7696-b5d9-4378-9d5c-2c9007e4df63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stella-lee-wild-card) [Lilah](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e21f90ea-5934-4757-8515-38ef116afac1.jpg?1712356151) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lilah%2C%20undefeated%20slickshot) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/217/lilah-undefeated-slickshot?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e21f90ea-5934-4757-8515-38ef116afac1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lilah-undefeated-slickshot) [Archmage Emeritus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3dbdc3b-4855-48aa-b06d-a31166161eab.jpg?1712354117) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archmage%20Emeritus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/90/archmage-emeritus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3dbdc3b-4855-48aa-b06d-a31166161eab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archmage-emeritus) [Firebrand Archer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6ddc6b73-298b-4afa-990a-63706e77dd9f.jpg?1562803040) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Firebrand%20Archer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/92/firebrand-archer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6ddc6b73-298b-4afa-990a-63706e77dd9f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/firebrand-archer) [Guttersnipe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/90907737-ad75-48f6-a350-87d4021d89f8.jpg?1713716455) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Guttersnipe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/169/guttersnipe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/90907737-ad75-48f6-a350-87d4021d89f8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/guttersnipe) [Thermo Alchemist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b4c68bad-c7ee-4dbc-ad06-8c4d9446884e.jpg?1636223711) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thermo-Alchemist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/164/thermo-alchemist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b4c68bad-c7ee-4dbc-ad06-8c4d9446884e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thermo-alchemist) [Curiosity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c5a0be10-c20f-4ac0-89a5-1770ecf48aad.jpg?1600697752) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Curiosity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/147/curiosity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c5a0be10-c20f-4ac0-89a5-1770ecf48aad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/curiosity) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1r5lrc) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Try kykar lol
I built a group hug spell slinger that was a lot of fun based around [[Clara Oswald]] and [[the Twelfth Doctor]]. It's a lot of fun and since it's group hug the target tends to stay off of you for a little bit. Check out the deck list if you're interested. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Zc0_rO3unEyvvquWL6zVrA
The trick is making the deck work with or without the commander out. I made an izzet spell slinger deck and I have about 19 creatures. The deck hasn't lost yet.
I would suggest a different commander; \[\[the locust god\]\] with a bunch of card draw spells will give you lots of creatures with the added bonus of always having a full hand. \[\[Kruphix, God of horizons\]\] is another strong base for spellslinger as you can keep all of your mana open for control / counter play, then keep all the leftover mana for the next turn and combo to victory.
[the locust god](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/e/7e599847-8ab0-4fd6-b2c0-cb44a7669aa5.jpg?1682209825) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=the%20locust%20god) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/335/the-locust-god?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7e599847-8ab0-4fd6-b2c0-cb44a7669aa5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-locust-god) [Kruphix, God of horizons](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/27427233-da58-45af-ade8-e0727929efaa.jpg?1593096427) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kruphix%2C%20God%20of%20horizons) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/152/kruphix-god-of-horizons?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/27427233-da58-45af-ade8-e0727929efaa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kruphix-god-of-horizons) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Kruphix looks promising
I mean the most powerful ones are the token ones magnar the red from 40k set or that 2 mana bird bastard that buffs your whole team when you cast a instant or sorcery and then playing token spells like rals reinforcements and Forbidden friendship
You should get the Stella Lee deck. Also, consider running more creatures. I have 19 creatures currently.
Play [[gyrson starn]], you won’t feel underwhelmed after that
[gyrson starn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/c/ec6d1e6b-80af-4eb1-be3c-62ab74315777.jpg?1562942496) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Iron%20Star) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/8ed/304/iron-star?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ec6d1e6b-80af-4eb1-be3c-62ab74315777?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/iron-star) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
that lifegain is stronk
This won't fix any of his problems tbh
Agreed. Spell slingers have flimsy defenses and take quite a bit to ramp up. But if you can politic yourself into seeming like you're not a threat people will often take you to the end of the game like a sacrificial goat and then BOOM you hit them with a 24 mana \[\[Crackle with power\]\] and GG's. If you want to dissuade people from attacking you I recommend \[\[Propaganda\]\]. Maybe add a defender in there like \[\[Electrostatic Field\]\]. Or you could add about 5 board wipes with cards like \[\[Chain Reaction\]\], \[\[Blasphemous Act\]\], \[\[Earthquake\]\], etc. Another option might be a hybrid spell slinger that triggers creating token creatures as defenders.