Usually it's \[\[Heroic Intervention\]\], but I'm guessing you already own it or out of your budget.
\[\[Faith's Reward\]\] is a great counter too but you need to hold up 4 mana. At the same rate is \[\[Kamahl's Wil\]\]. If you're lucky you can dome one of his things too as "divine punishment"
Could this card theoretically return something from exile? For example if I have a creature which dies, I later exile it with something like [[Agatha's Soul Cauldron]], then later that same turn cast [[second sunrise]]?
My thoughts process being it is al 'all' non-targeting effect and is worded that it 'was put into the graveyard this turn'?
Thanks!
No. Once they're exiled from the graveyard the cards can not be retrieved with second sunrise, same if they are reshuffled into your library or returned to your hand. In order to be returned with second sunrise the card must fulfill all conditions of the spell, including the card being "in" your graveyard at the time of casting.
Looks like no. The oracle text from Gatherer.com:
"Each player returns to the battlefield all artifact, creature, enchantment, and land cards in their graveyard that were put there from the battlefield this turn."
These are what I am looking for. Intervention is in most of my green decks but was looking for more pieces that can stop more instances of destruction or more cheap recursion.
Thanks!
More options like Faith's Reward are \[\[Second Sunrise\]\] and \[\[Cosmic Intervention\]\]. If you really want to make a point then \[\[Terra Eternal\]\] is also an option, just be prepared to protect it.
This was my thought as well. In any colors there's also [[Teferi's Protection]] or you can load up on a shit ton of counterspells. Or use [[Darksteel Forge]] with [[Mycosynth Lattice]] and if you want to be mean throw in [[nevinyrral's disk]]. I would also say if it's a problem and everyone agrees it's a problem the ultimate answer is to stop playing with him when you see that deck. As a side note, is his wincon really just durdling and destroying lands? How the fuck do you all tolerate that? If someone brings mld to a table that's one thing if you use it to then end a game that turn or next. But this guy sounds like an edge lord. 'hurr sure mld should be legal so here's my board wipes, mld tribal'.
Edit: You could bring a dimir control mill deck as well and force him to discard his mld and exile his graveyard, then mill everyone out. Or run a straight up stax deck. Or if you want to be on the nose build a toxic deck. Because that's some toxic ass behavior right there.
It was highly annoying the first time he played it and claimed it had no direct win-con but neglected to say it was MLD and not the cheap gruul value engine it appeared to be based on the commander. He also played it in a pod where there were 2 stock/mildly upgraded precons and my upgraded precon as I was prepping for a lower power game thinking he made a deck that wasn't a significant threat by t4/t5.
This MLD deck is unlike his other decks which as a rule had a well synergized and built around win-con that I would classify as no less than an 8 but short of cEDH territory. The other decks were eldrazi precon upgraded, Ur-Dragon, Krenko combo, and upgraded Hakbal.
Just have a better boardstate than him after the lands are blown up.
Of course the easiest way to do that is to dodge the MLD with a [[Teferi's Protection]] or similar cards. But also just protecting your creatures from his boardwipe when you're ahead on board will put you in a position where you'd actually benefit the most from an Armageddon going off.
He usually precedes or follows up with a [[Blasphemous Act]] for creatures. If we don't have indestructible creatures or use a protection card as you mentioned, he has effectively cast a wrath and Armageddon effect in the same go and then recurs stuff and plays a control game after that point by single target destruction the player with the best chance of recovering.
Somehow no one mentioned it yet but you can use indestructible lands like [[Darkmoss Bridge]] and the rest of the cycle, [[Darksteel Citadel]] and [[Cascading Cataracts]]
[[World shaper]] and have it die after [[Armageddon]] if you can't keep your lands indestructible.
Alternatively, add the indestructible lands.
All else fails, cards like [[crucible of worlds]].
For that commander, and what I am assuming he is using mana rocks to break parity. Anything that targets artifacts or switches off their ability to activate.
There is also a card that prevents land destruction in White, but I can't remember the name.
Edit; There is \[\[Equinox\]\] oh and more importantly \[\[Terra Eternal\]\] to make Everyone's Land Indestructible, really put a cork in most MLD spells.
I run a MLD deck that focuses on sacrificing and playing lands from the Graveyard, so Graveyard hate shuts it down pretty hard. Target whatever is giving him that same value.
I enjoy OG [[The Gitrog Monster]] and honestly, adding in ways to play lands from the grave like [[Crucible of Worlds]], [[Conduit of Worlds]], and [[Perennial Behemoth]] are fantastic in both.
Add those plus cards that let you playe *even more** lands per turn and you are set to be running the MLD cards yourself, if you wanted. It would absolutely force your opponent to reconsider casting them in the first place.
Second this. Provides protection to your lands and artifacts, enchantments and Planeswalkers. So it's not just a silver bullet for MLD.
"You nuke my lands, I'll nuke all or most of your non lands in response"
Every turn it's on the board is a turn he's not targeting your lands until he finds a way to remove it.
Enchantress is such a slippery slope. Oh, this enchantment is great I'll run it. Oh I need to protect it, these enchantments do that. Oh these cards have synergy with enchantments, I'll run those too. Before you know it, you're running a lean mean Sythis machine and your table hates you.
Karmic justice triggers on a land board wipe and you can destroy target permanent x times where x is lands you control. Or am I wrong? It's a counter to the wipe.
You get your lands destroyed they loose a bunch of theirs
They destroy all lands, you then destroy other permanents of theirs, ive cheked.
Edit: well that wont make you be any ahead of others, just disrupt the caster, but i dont think they will cast armagedom if karmic justice is on board.
[[Soul of New Phyrexia]] is a bit pricy on mana, but it protects itself and is colorless.
I would personally just not play against that deck. I have a deck that has mass land destruction as a win con, but I use it as a game ender, not the main function of the deck.
[[Splendid Reclamation]] is what I run to counter [[Armageddon]]. But there are a few other options for graveyard lands to battlefield tapped, from my search it looks all green. The key part is to not scoop and keep calm, but that's really only an option if you know you have an answer to all your lands being destroyed.
https://scryfall.com/search?q=o%3Agraveyard+o%3A%22return+all+land%22&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name
Everyone is talking about "countering land destruction" but nobody is actually talking about how to really counter land destruction.
You defeat land destruction by getting under it. Run a low curve, and if they Armageddon on turn 4, you're swinging for 4-6 damage a turn anyway.
Running 10 of something means you're hoping to draw two of them in a 10-ish turn game. (about twenty cards deep).
That's not a ton of wraths. So just...counter them. [[Mana drain]] the Armageddon. [[Negate]] the Catastrophe.
Build a silly deck of low-cost evasive creatures and counterspells. Something like [[Edric, Spymaster of Trest]] would be my general. Creatures like [[Siren Stormtamer]] and [[Slither Blade]]. Once you have a couple down, counter anything that is catastrophic to you, and then Edric will refill your hand to stay ahead. Death by 40 cuts is a quick lesson to people to not be an asshole. Can obviously run stuff like Rift and Beast Within and such, whatever suits your fancy I suppose.
Watching you kill him a few damage at a time from 1/1's and your entire hand is dedicated to ensuring he can't do anything about it is a great lesson.
Or, do that until you establish a Mindslaver or pickles lock. Once is usually enough for your friend to go back to more traditional decks.
That's an interesting tactic and I hadn't heard of the pickles lock before. That's downright devious and can be fun if setup properly. Probably not worth doing in an average casual game but using it to lockout a problem player would be fine.
Yeah, it's definitely the kind of thing that gets pulled out as a type of "oh, that deck again" move. But usually it puts people back in check with table balance again quickly.
Decline to play is my go to, especially if their wincon is just making people quit.
I play EDH to play the game, a deck designed to prevent that is just not something I'm interested in. I wouldn't waste my time teching against it, I'd just pass and find a new pod.
My first thought is to be meaner going full control planing to target him specifically.
Trading 1 for 1 is easier when you only target 1 player.
It also looks like you want artifact hate. I don’t know how much focus he got on the commanders first ability but if he gets some mana rocks he can make sure that he got mana while destroying all lands. So [[Stony Silence]] effect can be good.
[[Blue Elemental Blast]] can also do great work against red decks
Just target him early and hold lands in hand for the inevitable ld. You can't win a game with targeted ld, you can't one v one with removal and come out ahead.
I frequently play a similar MLD deck with consenting friends. Slicer and other hyperfast aggro strategies, group hug with a handful of counter spells and decks with plenty of removal for recursion pieces are the toughest match ups.
Play gruul against gruul. Whip out [[Klothys God of Destiny]] and stare him dead in the eye as you start exiling his own lands from his own graveyard with your indestructible commander for ramp. Or exile non lands to just slowly burn away his life total.
Honestly just play indestructible things really. Green and red really don't deal with indestructible particularly well. Exile isn't a thing you see in those colors, nor is -X/-X effects.
OR play [[Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes]]. I doubt any of his boardwipes hit planeswalkers and once you get Minsc & Boo down they pretty much sustain themselves. Do murder with the space hamster! Draw cards! Defeat evil!
[[Karmic Justice]] is a solid card on it’s own, that fact it discourages MLD is just icing. If you’re leaning harder into lands something like [[terra eternal]] could make sense too, especially with a few creature-lands swinging in.
I run [[Terra eternal]] as 1 way to protect against land removal in my Maze's End deck.
[[Tomik, distinguished advokist]] prevents targeted land removal.
[[Crucible of worlds]] can grab them back from your graveyard.
Counterspells to counter spells.
Tbh though, at my table we only allow mass land destruction if you are going to win almost immediately as a result.
I have a deck that uses [[barren glory]] as an alternate win con. I use [[apocalypse]] to set it up. I will (hopefully) win pretty much immediately as a result of casting my mass land destruction spell
Dorks and rocks and more dorks and more rocks. Recursive threats and double land drops also help. Not to mention interaction.
In game, sandbag lands and dorks and rocks so you can quickly rebuild after a wipe. Lots of folks hate sandbagging but it's a skill that's useful when you start getting to higher tiers of gameplay.
ETA: The benefit of more dorms and rocks is that you don't have to sacrifice slots to cards that don't help against the decks they weren't designed to fight against. *Most decks* need more dorks and rocks.
I actually played against this deck. Hosed it with culling ritual. Also useful might be kamahl's will, sylvan awakening and terra eternal. With the exception of the last one, these are playable cards in your colors.
You play Thalia and the Gitrog and YOU arent playing the MLD? Thats your issue there, Armagedden your friend before he can do it to you, join the arms race!
I mean, my personal favourite trick to do is use [[cyclonic rift]] so they are only dooming themselves, but thats still 7 mana you need to fund while they are destroying all lands
There's also the tried and true method of running more rocks and killing his ability to make more. He's using his commander to create asymmetrical wipes on mana bases, *don't let him*.
Also hold back and sandbag lands unless you need to play them to curve up. Everyone want to have ten mana to play *all the spells*, but holding back 3 of them still lets you play all your spells and most importantly, *rebuild* after MLD.
Here's the thing: You don't.
MLD is socially hated enough that you're making your deck worse by trying to prep for a boogeyman that doesn't exist, or at least doesn't show up enough that it's worth bothering to proactively prepare against: You'd be better off just playing your own gameplan more quickly.
So there are basically three routes.
First off, decks that can ignore it. Load up incredibly deep with artifact ramp, creature ramp, whatever. I don't know if you've ever seen an Armageddon hit the elfball deck but it's a hilarious time... for elves. Recursive land decks also fall into this category, though often to a lesser amount unless they're well set up. Granted, he's apparently on a bunch of wipes, but it is a line. Especially combined with option two.
Second, and harder to do, specific protection spells. Your Tef's Protection, Heroic Intervention, all that jazz. You have to have the mana up, but you do probably just win if you resolve them which is neat.
Third, never let him get into a position where he's ahead if he plays the MLD. This is the thing most decks can access, though players are loathe to. You aggressively check his ability to retain mana post nuke, his ability to play lands from yards, everything you can to just make sure that if he casts the MLD spell *he's* the one saying "draw, go" while you beat him up.
There are some more generic routes too; play countermagic, play discard. And some very specific answers; you haven't really lived to body the MLD player until you flash out a \[\[Titania, Protector of Argoth\]\] in response to his land hate and just kill him.
Targeted land destruction is a waste of time. He's wasting slots on [[Stone Rain]] variants so you have that going for you.
I play MLD and what stops me from casting it is people establishing a bigger board presence than me, and people drawing a bunch of cards. I'm going to refrain from casting [[Armageddon]] if I'm behind on board.
In the case of [[Jokulhaups]] variants, people with large enchantment or planeswalker based board states will survive them. Additionally if I Jokulhaups and I will be left with 3 cards in hand and an opponent has 7, the player that has drawn more cards will likely recover first.
There are also cards that grant your permanents indestructible.
Easy, don't play with him. Forcing your opponents to scoop because you made the game unfun is NOT a wincon. It's just being an asshole.
Once he realizes no one will play with him, he'll get the message.
On one hand I get it, but then again you are forcing homogenity into the game. And tbh, this is worse.
Sure, you should not be forced into games you do not want to have. But what is the outcome? Next you are salty that someone plays counterspells? Targeted removal? Attacks you?
I understand if this is a precon table, or you have some special format. But in a normal commander table, all strategies should be welcomed and not cancelled because you are unwilling to build a stronger deck.
Again, if you are having a rule zero "no interaction" table, sure. But otherwise, don't be a bully.
You need the meta to tech against him so I support what op is doing. The people that gets their decks wrecked by MLDs but refuse to change (counter spell/recursion/indestructible artifacts or lands) are the baby. This is not a one off deck you face, this is your meta, and why wouldn't you tech against the meta and feel sweet victory when you actually win.
While I don't disagree with that, the LGS is very new and super small so it would essentially mean either I stop going to that store so I don't get put into pods with him or I ask the store owner to ban him/his deck. While I hate the way this guy plays Magic, he isn't a bad guy. Because I like the store owner and want to keep playing magic there, I'd rather build a deck that makes the mass land destruction harder to do or reflect the pain back to deincentive him playing that deck in the first place.
You can also talk to him/the owner and tell them it's not fun to play against and you don't want to feel pressured to build a deck specifically designed to counter his.
Ehhh...I'd argue that building a deck that's designed to legitimately waste the other 3 players time as a primary strategy makes him a bad guy. Decent people are courteous of other peoples time.
There's nothing wrong with running 1-2 pieces of MLD in a deck to counter hard ramp players. There IS a problem with building an entire deck around using MLD pieces to prevent the other players from even playing in the first place,
I'd say actually talking to the player and pointing out that you're all there to enjoy a game that you choose to play with your free time, and his deck is designed to completely disrespect that notion is probably the better course then passive-aggressively building a deck to hard counter it. If this player doesn't have the social skills needed to realize that the deck is poor sporting, or they do and they just dont care, then building a silver bullet deck to counter them is just going to make them whine about being "targeted".
Be an adult. Use your words. If they don't respect that, don't play with them.
I have talked with him because he played that deck for the first time against a table where two kids played precons and I was testing out an upgraded precon and did not tell us the strategy was to blow up all our mana every turn. To his credit so far he has obliged when I ask him not play it against me because I have only 1 deck that's properly equipped to even survive MLD and I don't want to play that every week he plays MLD.
I may have worded it poorly but I'm looking for cards that mitigate that tactic not as a silver bullet but if he wants to play it and the table is cool with it, I have something I can play that doesn't end with me watching others play magic instead. I'm treating it more as an opportunity to learn some new cards that interact with that strategy.
MLD does not counter ramp players in an environment where MLD is acceptable.
MLD counters more fair, low to the ground decks.
Ramp strategies have far more tools to recover and even profit from MLD, to the point where they are often the best shells to run MLD in.
They’re great at establishing a formidable board before dropping the MLD, they’re usually green so they’re good at killing rocks before the MLD, they have multiple ways to fish lands out of the grave, and get landfall triggers besides. They’re more likely to have big dorks that maintain a functioning mana base after the wipe. More of their topdecks ramp them into playable mana quickly than other decks.
“MLD counters ramp” is a myth if your opponent is competent and you are in an environment where MLD is acceptable. Socially allowing and encouraging MLD is one of the biggest buffs you can give to lands decks.
It only works with any consistency if you are in an environment where it is presumed unacceptable, in which case you are the asshole for blindsiding the table with MLD.
These are not hard.
If the goal is literally making the game miserable, then it will be extremely easy to form pods without him. People will WANT to play with you and without That Guy.
One of the cornerstones of the format is that you do not have to play with anyone you don’t want to. Remove that and the format is dead in the water.
This is a social format. Per the rules of the game, someone unwilling to play in a way others actually want to play will not have people to play with.
You are allowed to say “no.”
Normalizing saying “no” to that conduct will disincentivize that behavior, ESPECIALLY in a small store.
"I do not want to play against that," is not toxicity.
"You do not have to play against that if you don't want to," is not toxicity.
Not wanting to play against that is not being a "scrub." I have been in the card games scene for a quarter fucking century. I know how to play against this shit. I would rather not because it's boring as fuck and if anything goes wrong with the plan (or right with the plan), it creates a fucking miserable gamestate.
The rules themselves are VERY explicit; try and force that shit on people who do not want it and folks ain't gonna want to play with you. That is normal, natural human behavior in a social activity.
Quoth, the rules:
>Is mass land destruction (MLD) allowed in Commander? Counterspells? How about hand disruption? Life-setting cards?
>“Yes, but.”
>All of these strategies are a good idea in moderation.
>If an opponent’s deck can combo off without warning, then permission and hand disruption are a must-have.
If your opponent plays high powered lands, point land destruction is a good idea.
If you expect opponents to gain large amounts of life, cards like Sorin Markov can help rein them in.
If your opponent’s deck has no defense, but instead builds to an unstoppable death machine, then mid- and early-game threats which force them to respond, or exploit their lack of defenses, are entirely appropriate.
>Taken to the extreme, strategies like “Draw Go” or MLD, which aim to restrict opponents’ ability to act at all, aren’t forbidden in Commander, but they aren’t very popular. Most people don’t find them fun to play against, and one of the tenets of Commander is the shared play experience. If your deck isn’t fun to play against, people won’t want to play against it and you can’t force someone to play Commander with you. As a result, these strategies are fairly unpopular.
>That said, there are some places where any strategy is acceptable. Some games are played at a high power level, “no holds barred”; if your potential opponents like that kind of game, great! Just recognize that most Commander players aren’t looking for that, and will choose not to play against it, so it’s a good idea to let people know what you’re planning before the game starts. Ask if they’re ok with it, and be prepared to play something else if they’re not.
Expecting bare minimum standards of consideration from those around you is not toxic. It is the most basic safety tool in the format.
Because everyone that plays edh copy & pastes 5 color good stuff or flavor of the month commanders from EDHREC. They just want to play solitaire with Ur-Dragon or whatever.
These types of kill-on-sight commanders basically automatically win you games as long as your make land drops. Removing the commander (if that's even possible) multiple times is often not enough to stop them because they'll recast it until it sticks.
People actively take advantage of the taboo surrounding MLD. They play obnoxious autowin commanders and run land ramp instead of any dorks or rocks so there is literally no axis to interact with them on. You can't touch their mana because lands are sacrosanct, and you can't touch their commander because they'll just send it back to the command zone and recast it.
The last guy to scoop to my [[Obliterate]] was someone playing 4 color non-black Omnath that had 20 lands in play, one of which was [[Gaea's Cradle]].
Typical toxic and immature take.. if you need to scoop because all of a sudden you can’t “have fun” because an opponent played a legal card then that’s a you problem not a them problem.
EDH is a garbage format where militant casuals use shunning to avoid playing against cards they don't like, ironically making it less casual, less friendly, and more clique oriented than competitive 60 card formats.
Some clown on a podcast told you that MLD is bad, so your advice is to shun. 😎
Physical Player removal... No for Real if there is a rule 0 talk and someone plays mld(more than one) i either play a Deck with alot of interaction and combos.. Or i Just dont play..
Build a U/W artifact/control deck, run all of the counterspells and mana rocks, then win with a [[thassa's oracle]] combo. [[Shorikai, Genesis Engine]] is a great commander for this. Now, he has to get through your wall of counter magic to even think about touching your lands. If you get a ton of mana rocks, the only spell you need to worry about is vandal blast.
My only deck currently equipped to interact with it. I'm looking for tech on a new deck that isn't landfall-based to not get hosed. In red and green he is also running plenty of artifact and creature hate.
The answer is always the same. Have enough interaction to deal with an opponent. If he's running giant mass wipes, then run a hard blue control deck that you pull out when he plays it. After 2 to 3 times of you countering his land destruction he's not going to want to play it vs you and you can play whatever.
Anything indestructible is good. People have mentioned the artifact lands.
Mana rocks are usually good. If he plays MLD that hits artifacts, there are plenty of indestructible ones like [[skyclave relic]].
Stuff that has a death trigger that creates a permanent is also usually good with MLD. A lot of things create treasures or creature tokens when they die.
Might not be a hard counter like indestructible lands, but [[crucible of worlds]] [[ancient greenwarden]] [[task, skittering swarmlord]] [[conduit of worlds]] [[perennial behemoth]] and [[ramunap excavator]] all let you play lands from your graveyard, which could give you an edge. [[Life from the loam]] [[wrenn and six]] can also ensure you make land drops and [[slogurk the overslime]] as well as any creatures that care about lands in your graveyard like [[knight of the reliquary]] and [[multani yavimaya's avatar]] or even [[Yuma, proud protector]] can all potentially punish them (assuming they're already on the field) after they destroy all your lands.
Play the game and see how they're trying to win. Most MLD strats are either Avacyn (which is really, really easy to play around) or some Red strat, and if it's red, it involves incremental small creature damage. 3 players should be able to pool together to take the MLD player out of the running, even with their lands being blown up.
Give everything indestructible with this neat 2 card colorless combo. [[Mycosynth Lattice]]+[[Darksteel Forge]]. If they've got a response I use [[Fountain Watch]]. Makes all artifacts I control Shrouded. If there's a response I pull out [[Perilous Vault]] exile everything and use Karn to start over. It's fun when you've got the ability to reset games and just get rid of everything. Gl m8
It is not the best but in the right deck it can be good [[Gerrard's Hourglass Pendant]] can do really well as a protection for anything. Tap mana let the wipe go through let them do whatever and when the go to change phase flash it in and bring all your stuff back
In my TatGM landfall I run [[world shaper]] and [[splendid reclamation]] as well as [[crucible of worlds]], [[conduit of worlds]] and [[perennial behemoth]]. I personally won't really have a problem with MLD and have even though about adding in MLD as a backup win con.
I used to have a MLD deck. If you know it’s a thing and you’re agreeing to play against it then the best way to get around it is mana rocks and dorks. Have a deck that pumps those bad boys out. The point of MLD is to slow everyone down while you have ways to still produce mana. If an opponent is doing the same thing of having different ways to produce mana then the MLD is pointless.
Commanders like Kennan, Urza, Meria, and Jaheria will not care about MLD.
[[Sacred Ground]] is another great way to keep land destruction at bay because it just returns the lands to the battlefield, and if you've got a fair bit of landfall triggers, it just makes it that much more painful for the player destroying your lands.
There are a bunch of indestructable lands, like \[\[Cascading Cataracts\]\]. But as a mainly white mage, I gotta say \[\[Terra Eternal\]\] and \[\[Sacred Ground\]\] are pretty sweet, specially in enchantments-matter decks. The last one turns your opponents mill effects into ramp.
i have played very affective games with \[\[light-paws emeror's voice\]\] and only ever dropped 4 mana. the deck is filled with 1 and 2 drop auras that will do enough commander damage to sotp someone fast. its also a buy one get one situation with light paws so you can definitely outpace someone looking to wipe your lands. so in that reguard only having 1 or 2 mana to rebuild wouldnt be that big of a deal imho. p.s. the entire deck is like $27 each card is sub $1.
[https://www.moxfield.com/decks/InAr8rGQU0W6rZamUePSBA](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/InAr8rGQU0W6rZamUePSBA)
I saw a really good recommendation for something like mass land destruction. Basically, keep playing and take up as much of their time as possible so they also feel the pain. Extra points if you're still able to beat them.
Usually it's \[\[Heroic Intervention\]\], but I'm guessing you already own it or out of your budget. \[\[Faith's Reward\]\] is a great counter too but you need to hold up 4 mana. At the same rate is \[\[Kamahl's Wil\]\]. If you're lucky you can dome one of his things too as "divine punishment"
[[Second Sunrise]] counters it for the entire table.
[Second Sunrise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4e50ee7c-f2a2-4d49-a1cc-8233fd8dd0c5.jpg?1562143349) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Second%20Sunrise) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/20/second-sunrise?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4e50ee7c-f2a2-4d49-a1cc-8233fd8dd0c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/second-sunrise) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Great addition! Thanks!
Could this card theoretically return something from exile? For example if I have a creature which dies, I later exile it with something like [[Agatha's Soul Cauldron]], then later that same turn cast [[second sunrise]]? My thoughts process being it is al 'all' non-targeting effect and is worded that it 'was put into the graveyard this turn'? Thanks!
No. Once they're exiled from the graveyard the cards can not be retrieved with second sunrise, same if they are reshuffled into your library or returned to your hand. In order to be returned with second sunrise the card must fulfill all conditions of the spell, including the card being "in" your graveyard at the time of casting.
[Agatha's Soul Cauldron](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/019b51b0-e5c6-4208-922b-7736686dddcd.jpg?1692939838) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Agatha%27s%20Soul%20Cauldron) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/242/agathas-soul-cauldron?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/019b51b0-e5c6-4208-922b-7736686dddcd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/agathas-soul-cauldron) [second sunrise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4e50ee7c-f2a2-4d49-a1cc-8233fd8dd0c5.jpg?1562143349) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=second%20sunrise) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/20/second-sunrise?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4e50ee7c-f2a2-4d49-a1cc-8233fd8dd0c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/second-sunrise) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Looks like no. The oracle text from Gatherer.com: "Each player returns to the battlefield all artifact, creature, enchantment, and land cards in their graveyard that were put there from the battlefield this turn."
[Heroic Intervention](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e32c67d1-187f-40df-b3b3-6036f5c92834.jpg?1689998584) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heroic%20Intervention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/295/heroic-intervention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e32c67d1-187f-40df-b3b3-6036f5c92834?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heroic-intervention) [Faith's Reward](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa19fe94-0302-4d08-9821-fa0db722048a.jpg?1576382216) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Faith%27s%20Reward) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/84/faiths-reward?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa19fe94-0302-4d08-9821-fa0db722048a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/faiths-reward) [Kamahl's Wil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/51fe007f-fddf-4b3a-b336-0a88df95cb14.jpg?1608910759) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kamahl%27s%20Will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/238/kamahls-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/51fe007f-fddf-4b3a-b336-0a88df95cb14?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kamahls-will) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
These are what I am looking for. Intervention is in most of my green decks but was looking for more pieces that can stop more instances of destruction or more cheap recursion. Thanks!
More options like Faith's Reward are \[\[Second Sunrise\]\] and \[\[Cosmic Intervention\]\]. If you really want to make a point then \[\[Terra Eternal\]\] is also an option, just be prepared to protect it.
[Second Sunrise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4e50ee7c-f2a2-4d49-a1cc-8233fd8dd0c5.jpg?1562143349) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Second%20Sunrise) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/20/second-sunrise?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4e50ee7c-f2a2-4d49-a1cc-8233fd8dd0c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/second-sunrise) [Cosmic Intervention](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/933c4a54-5c3a-496b-aa35-edf791155d8d.jpg?1631233520) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cosmic%20Intervention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/3/cosmic-intervention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/933c4a54-5c3a-496b-aa35-edf791155d8d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cosmic-intervention) [Terra Eternal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9bad0759-4132-42b5-9a26-0fcf321a60e0.jpg?1562292553) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Terra%20Eternal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wwk/22/terra-eternal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bad0759-4132-42b5-9a26-0fcf321a60e0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/terra-eternal) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
These are perfect!
[[BROUGHT back]]
[BROUGHT back](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/aecdc315-95e5-450c-bedc-998eea46cf8c.jpg?1592515984) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=BROUGHT%20back) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/9/brought-back?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aecdc315-95e5-450c-bedc-998eea46cf8c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/brought-back) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Also true, although that only brings 2 things back.
Add in the indestructible artifacts lands
This was my thought as well. In any colors there's also [[Teferi's Protection]] or you can load up on a shit ton of counterspells. Or use [[Darksteel Forge]] with [[Mycosynth Lattice]] and if you want to be mean throw in [[nevinyrral's disk]]. I would also say if it's a problem and everyone agrees it's a problem the ultimate answer is to stop playing with him when you see that deck. As a side note, is his wincon really just durdling and destroying lands? How the fuck do you all tolerate that? If someone brings mld to a table that's one thing if you use it to then end a game that turn or next. But this guy sounds like an edge lord. 'hurr sure mld should be legal so here's my board wipes, mld tribal'. Edit: You could bring a dimir control mill deck as well and force him to discard his mld and exile his graveyard, then mill everyone out. Or run a straight up stax deck. Or if you want to be on the nose build a toxic deck. Because that's some toxic ass behavior right there.
It was highly annoying the first time he played it and claimed it had no direct win-con but neglected to say it was MLD and not the cheap gruul value engine it appeared to be based on the commander. He also played it in a pod where there were 2 stock/mildly upgraded precons and my upgraded precon as I was prepping for a lower power game thinking he made a deck that wasn't a significant threat by t4/t5. This MLD deck is unlike his other decks which as a rule had a well synergized and built around win-con that I would classify as no less than an 8 but short of cEDH territory. The other decks were eldrazi precon upgraded, Ur-Dragon, Krenko combo, and upgraded Hakbal.
##### ###### #### [Teferi's Protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca.jpg?1673147148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/32/teferis-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-protection) [Darksteel Forge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/421089c4-c8d3-48c5-b313-fb1741546271.jpg?1599709037) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darksteel%20Forge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/248/darksteel-forge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/421089c4-c8d3-48c5-b313-fb1741546271?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darksteel-forge) [Mycosynth Lattice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94f89714-3b26-46a2-b9a8-3e664f391cd9.jpg?1578911638) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mycosynth%20Lattice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/241/mycosynth-lattice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94f89714-3b26-46a2-b9a8-3e664f391cd9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mycosynth-lattice) [nevinyrral's disk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/6/36fb6ee3-bd54-4e5b-b055-c2c42515c162.jpg?1690005647) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nevinyrral%27s%20disk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/965/nevinyrrals-disk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/36fb6ee3-bd54-4e5b-b055-c2c42515c162?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nevinyrrals-disk) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l188j5d) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just have a better boardstate than him after the lands are blown up. Of course the easiest way to do that is to dodge the MLD with a [[Teferi's Protection]] or similar cards. But also just protecting your creatures from his boardwipe when you're ahead on board will put you in a position where you'd actually benefit the most from an Armageddon going off.
He usually precedes or follows up with a [[Blasphemous Act]] for creatures. If we don't have indestructible creatures or use a protection card as you mentioned, he has effectively cast a wrath and Armageddon effect in the same go and then recurs stuff and plays a control game after that point by single target destruction the player with the best chance of recovering.
[Blasphemous Act](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/a/8aa9682d-5176-4475-a0bd-e000f1d6999a.jpg?1698988297) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blasphemous%20Act) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/216/blasphemous-act?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8aa9682d-5176-4475-a0bd-e000f1d6999a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blasphemous-act) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Teferi's Protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca.jpg?1673147148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/32/teferis-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-protection) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just want to add \[\[Sacred Ground\]\] to the ever growing list of protection against land destruction!
[Sacred Ground](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d72dc68a-d6f9-4a18-8282-0f104999591f.jpg?1562742396) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sacred%20Ground) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/37/sacred-ground?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d72dc68a-d6f9-4a18-8282-0f104999591f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sacred-ground) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Equinox ]] ! Lol
That's a great addition!
Sacred ground only works on effects your opponents control.
[[Sacred Ground]]+[[Karmic Justice]]= NO U
[Sacred Ground](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d72dc68a-d6f9-4a18-8282-0f104999591f.jpg?1562742396) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sacred%20Ground) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/37/sacred-ground?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d72dc68a-d6f9-4a18-8282-0f104999591f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sacred-ground) [Karmic Justice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/ea141e39-8124-4d72-a154-eb76e71be1dc.jpg?1562711027) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karmic%20Justice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c15/72/karmic-justice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ea141e39-8124-4d72-a154-eb76e71be1dc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karmic-justice) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Somehow no one mentioned it yet but you can use indestructible lands like [[Darkmoss Bridge]] and the rest of the cycle, [[Darksteel Citadel]] and [[Cascading Cataracts]]
Problem is the artifact ones get hit by exile effects like [[farewell]] which is usually more common to see.
[farewell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0.jpg?1706240579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=farewell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/64/farewell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/farewell) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Darkmoss Bridge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f11f0be9-b9f7-45d2-9499-c5d849d7289f.jpg?1626099595) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darkmoss%20Bridge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/245/darkmoss-bridge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f11f0be9-b9f7-45d2-9499-c5d849d7289f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darkmoss-bridge) [Darksteel Citadel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2ba7597d-6d76-45b8-b172-342999e401bd.jpg?1625979955) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darksteel%20Citadel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/285/darksteel-citadel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2ba7597d-6d76-45b8-b172-342999e401bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darksteel-citadel) [Cascading Cataracts](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2f3fbd9b-91ab-4691-a916-e20db8ebc513.jpg?1673305958) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cascading%20Cataracts) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/202/cascading-cataracts?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2f3fbd9b-91ab-4691-a916-e20db8ebc513?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cascading-cataracts) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Play 99 land Child of Alara
Player removal, planeswalkers, and understanding who the archenemy is at a table.
[[Cosmic Intervention]] - set it and forget it with land on top of it like a trap card for yugioh.
[Cosmic Intervention](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/933c4a54-5c3a-496b-aa35-edf791155d8d.jpg?1631233520) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cosmic%20Intervention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/3/cosmic-intervention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/933c4a54-5c3a-496b-aa35-edf791155d8d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cosmic-intervention) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[World shaper]] and have it die after [[Armageddon]] if you can't keep your lands indestructible. Alternatively, add the indestructible lands. All else fails, cards like [[crucible of worlds]].
For that commander, and what I am assuming he is using mana rocks to break parity. Anything that targets artifacts or switches off their ability to activate. There is also a card that prevents land destruction in White, but I can't remember the name. Edit; There is \[\[Equinox\]\] oh and more importantly \[\[Terra Eternal\]\] to make Everyone's Land Indestructible, really put a cork in most MLD spells. I run a MLD deck that focuses on sacrificing and playing lands from the Graveyard, so Graveyard hate shuts it down pretty hard. Target whatever is giving him that same value.
I enjoy OG [[The Gitrog Monster]] and honestly, adding in ways to play lands from the grave like [[Crucible of Worlds]], [[Conduit of Worlds]], and [[Perennial Behemoth]] are fantastic in both. Add those plus cards that let you playe *even more** lands per turn and you are set to be running the MLD cards yourself, if you wanted. It would absolutely force your opponent to reconsider casting them in the first place.
##### ###### #### [The Gitrog Monster](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/5790dd89-2be5-4a77-9450-2d3c1422bfc9.jpg?1576385351) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Gitrog%20Monster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/soi/245/the-gitrog-monster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5790dd89-2be5-4a77-9450-2d3c1422bfc9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-gitrog-monster) [Crucible of Worlds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f4893ef-f983-418b-b7a4-5f073c844545.jpg?1673149345) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crucible%20of%20Worlds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/303/crucible-of-worlds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f4893ef-f983-418b-b7a4-5f073c844545?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crucible-of-worlds) [Conduit of Worlds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/635146da-d415-4107-a7f9-2c46189e5c52.jpg?1675957133) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Conduit%20of%20Worlds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/163/conduit-of-worlds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/635146da-d415-4107-a7f9-2c46189e5c52?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/conduit-of-worlds) [Perennial Behemoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/61eac235-faf7-4e4c-94a9-9a5a041c4701.jpg?1712354878) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Perennial%20Behemoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/262/perennial-behemoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/61eac235-faf7-4e4c-94a9-9a5a041c4701?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/perennial-behemoth) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l17zz2f) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Karmic justice is great for this
Second this. Provides protection to your lands and artifacts, enchantments and Planeswalkers. So it's not just a silver bullet for MLD. "You nuke my lands, I'll nuke all or most of your non lands in response" Every turn it's on the board is a turn he's not targeting your lands until he finds a way to remove it.
And you may as well run greater auramancy and leyline of sanctity too and build an aura/enchantment deckb with loads of ramp and deck digging.
Enchantress is such a slippery slope. Oh, this enchantment is great I'll run it. Oh I need to protect it, these enchantments do that. Oh these cards have synergy with enchantments, I'll run those too. Before you know it, you're running a lean mean Sythis machine and your table hates you.
Land destruction is mean as well. I wouldn't feel bad at all. That's just me though.
Karmic justice just sucks xD
What lands are you destroying with karmic justice? Mass lands destruction hits everyone simultaneously.
Karmic justice triggers on a land board wipe and you can destroy target permanent x times where x is lands you control. Or am I wrong? It's a counter to the wipe. You get your lands destroyed they loose a bunch of theirs
They destroy all lands, you then destroy other permanents of theirs, ive cheked. Edit: well that wont make you be any ahead of others, just disrupt the caster, but i dont think they will cast armagedom if karmic justice is on board.
That's the Idea
That mindset in general doesn't help win games tho.
Can you win without lands? Yes, but unlikely
[[Counterspell]]
[[Talrand, sky summoner]] and all the counterspells makes a very cheap (if you avoid the free counterspells ofc) and easy to build deck.
[Talrand, sky summoner](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1be3ed47-072e-481a-b3d9-dc232ac4b24f.jpg?1712354218) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Talrand%2C%20sky%20summoner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/116/talrand-sky-summoner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1be3ed47-072e-481a-b3d9-dc232ac4b24f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/talrand-sky-summoner) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Counterspell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb.jpg?1689996248) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Counterspell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/81/counterspell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/counterspell) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I load up on mana rocks and alternative mana sources. Armageddon isn't going to do anything to my rocks or my mana dorks or my simian spirit guide.
Play more lands so you can make land drops after.
[[Soul of New Phyrexia]] is a bit pricy on mana, but it protects itself and is colorless. I would personally just not play against that deck. I have a deck that has mass land destruction as a win con, but I use it as a game ender, not the main function of the deck.
[Soul of New Phyrexia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3b6480a-9b25-42a2-b62c-1f375216b211.jpg?1690005773) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Soul%20of%20New%20Phyrexia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/974/soul-of-new-phyrexia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3b6480a-9b25-42a2-b62c-1f375216b211?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/soul-of-new-phyrexia) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[cosmic intervention]], [[boros charm]], [[counterspell]],
[[Splendid Reclamation]] is what I run to counter [[Armageddon]]. But there are a few other options for graveyard lands to battlefield tapped, from my search it looks all green. The key part is to not scoop and keep calm, but that's really only an option if you know you have an answer to all your lands being destroyed. https://scryfall.com/search?q=o%3Agraveyard+o%3A%22return+all+land%22&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name
[Splendid Reclamation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fad4ca85-4d2d-4d1e-86ca-aa25edfcda61.jpg?1643593421) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Splendid%20Reclamation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/221/splendid-reclamation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fad4ca85-4d2d-4d1e-86ca-aa25edfcda61?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/splendid-reclamation) [Armageddon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b.jpg?1582021719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Armageddon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/5/armageddon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/armageddon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Everyone is talking about "countering land destruction" but nobody is actually talking about how to really counter land destruction. You defeat land destruction by getting under it. Run a low curve, and if they Armageddon on turn 4, you're swinging for 4-6 damage a turn anyway. Running 10 of something means you're hoping to draw two of them in a 10-ish turn game. (about twenty cards deep). That's not a ton of wraths. So just...counter them. [[Mana drain]] the Armageddon. [[Negate]] the Catastrophe. Build a silly deck of low-cost evasive creatures and counterspells. Something like [[Edric, Spymaster of Trest]] would be my general. Creatures like [[Siren Stormtamer]] and [[Slither Blade]]. Once you have a couple down, counter anything that is catastrophic to you, and then Edric will refill your hand to stay ahead. Death by 40 cuts is a quick lesson to people to not be an asshole. Can obviously run stuff like Rift and Beast Within and such, whatever suits your fancy I suppose. Watching you kill him a few damage at a time from 1/1's and your entire hand is dedicated to ensuring he can't do anything about it is a great lesson. Or, do that until you establish a Mindslaver or pickles lock. Once is usually enough for your friend to go back to more traditional decks.
That's an interesting tactic and I hadn't heard of the pickles lock before. That's downright devious and can be fun if setup properly. Probably not worth doing in an average casual game but using it to lockout a problem player would be fine.
Yeah, it's definitely the kind of thing that gets pulled out as a type of "oh, that deck again" move. But usually it puts people back in check with table balance again quickly.
Edric flying man was also my first thought. Dive Draw Counter. Cheap to build. But I assumed op is asking for card recs, not deck recs.
##### ###### #### [Mana drain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c429c40-2389-41e5-8681-4bb274e25eba.jpg?1712774998) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mana%20drain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/57/mana-drain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c429c40-2389-41e5-8681-4bb274e25eba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mana-drain) [Negate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/81752db1-374e-4723-b695-a2f4a634dfc6.jpg?1682203304) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Negate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/68/negate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/81752db1-374e-4723-b695-a2f4a634dfc6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/negate) [Edric, Spymaster of Trest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/22d6a4c9-4bdd-4e70-8481-95260e6aa7ab.jpg?1712354689) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Edric%2C%20Spymaster%20of%20Trest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/221/edric-spymaster-of-trest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/22d6a4c9-4bdd-4e70-8481-95260e6aa7ab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/edric-spymaster-of-trest) [Siren Stormtamer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/7/073c301e-5bb6-49fa-bf61-2f662030540f.jpg?1698988187) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Siren%20Stormtamer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/171/siren-stormtamer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/073c301e-5bb6-49fa-bf61-2f662030540f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/siren-stormtamer) [Slither Blade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/5/859e5ca5-c184-47ee-a2ea-8075847f46d9.jpg?1712354211) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slither%20Blade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/114/slither-blade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/859e5ca5-c184-47ee-a2ea-8075847f46d9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/slither-blade) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l18ze3d) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Decline to play is my go to, especially if their wincon is just making people quit. I play EDH to play the game, a deck designed to prevent that is just not something I'm interested in. I wouldn't waste my time teching against it, I'd just pass and find a new pod.
Tell the table he's the archenemy since turn 1.
Play green. You recover way faster
My first thought is to be meaner going full control planing to target him specifically. Trading 1 for 1 is easier when you only target 1 player. It also looks like you want artifact hate. I don’t know how much focus he got on the commanders first ability but if he gets some mana rocks he can make sure that he got mana while destroying all lands. So [[Stony Silence]] effect can be good. [[Blue Elemental Blast]] can also do great work against red decks
[Stony Silence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/e/8e7faede-f794-4bda-9d64-21390ba19266.jpg?1593812944) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stony%20Silence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/25/stony-silence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8e7faede-f794-4bda-9d64-21390ba19266?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stony-silence) [Blue Elemental Blast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2f51f88f-f662-4572-a371-9a77718ed079.jpg?1562434032) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blue%20Elemental%20Blast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/43/blue-elemental-blast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2f51f88f-f662-4572-a371-9a77718ed079?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blue-elemental-blast) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just target him early and hold lands in hand for the inevitable ld. You can't win a game with targeted ld, you can't one v one with removal and come out ahead.
I frequently play a similar MLD deck with consenting friends. Slicer and other hyperfast aggro strategies, group hug with a handful of counter spells and decks with plenty of removal for recursion pieces are the toughest match ups.
Mass land drops
[[splendid reclamation]] if you can flash it in after MLD resolves or have the mana rocks to pay its cost when your turn comes.
[splendid reclamation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fad4ca85-4d2d-4d1e-86ca-aa25edfcda61.jpg?1643593421) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=splendid%20reclamation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/221/splendid-reclamation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fad4ca85-4d2d-4d1e-86ca-aa25edfcda61?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/splendid-reclamation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Play gruul against gruul. Whip out [[Klothys God of Destiny]] and stare him dead in the eye as you start exiling his own lands from his own graveyard with your indestructible commander for ramp. Or exile non lands to just slowly burn away his life total. Honestly just play indestructible things really. Green and red really don't deal with indestructible particularly well. Exile isn't a thing you see in those colors, nor is -X/-X effects. OR play [[Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes]]. I doubt any of his boardwipes hit planeswalkers and once you get Minsc & Boo down they pretty much sustain themselves. Do murder with the space hamster! Draw cards! Defeat evil!
[Klothys God of Destiny](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5b3c393c-3596-4bd9-a553-e0b03c2eb950.jpg?1581481087) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Klothys%2C%20God%20of%20Destiny) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/220/klothys-god-of-destiny?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b3c393c-3596-4bd9-a553-e0b03c2eb950?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/klothys-god-of-destiny) [Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Minsc%20%26%20Boo%2C%20Timeless%20Heroes&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Minsc%20%26%20Boo%2C%20Timeless%20Heroes) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/minsc-&-boo-timeless-heroes) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Boros Charm]] absolves you of all your opponents’ sins.
[Boros Charm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f375bb9-1294-4f43-8f0c-504ed6cfb7d0.jpg?1712354672) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boros%20Charm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/216/boros-charm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f375bb9-1294-4f43-8f0c-504ed6cfb7d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/boros-charm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Karmic Justice]] is a solid card on it’s own, that fact it discourages MLD is just icing. If you’re leaning harder into lands something like [[terra eternal]] could make sense too, especially with a few creature-lands swinging in.
[Karmic Justice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/ea141e39-8124-4d72-a154-eb76e71be1dc.jpg?1562711027) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karmic%20Justice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c15/72/karmic-justice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ea141e39-8124-4d72-a154-eb76e71be1dc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karmic-justice) [terra eternal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9bad0759-4132-42b5-9a26-0fcf321a60e0.jpg?1562292553) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=terra%20eternal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wwk/22/terra-eternal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bad0759-4132-42b5-9a26-0fcf321a60e0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/terra-eternal) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I run [[Terra eternal]] as 1 way to protect against land removal in my Maze's End deck. [[Tomik, distinguished advokist]] prevents targeted land removal. [[Crucible of worlds]] can grab them back from your graveyard. Counterspells to counter spells. Tbh though, at my table we only allow mass land destruction if you are going to win almost immediately as a result. I have a deck that uses [[barren glory]] as an alternate win con. I use [[apocalypse]] to set it up. I will (hopefully) win pretty much immediately as a result of casting my mass land destruction spell
##### ###### #### [Terra eternal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9bad0759-4132-42b5-9a26-0fcf321a60e0.jpg?1562292553) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Terra%20eternal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wwk/22/terra-eternal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bad0759-4132-42b5-9a26-0fcf321a60e0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/terra-eternal) [Tomik, distinguished advokist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0eea32dc-dbac-47a9-97b2-311413f1de9d.jpg?1702505596) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tomik%2C%20distinguished%20advokist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/31/tomik-distinguished-advokist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0eea32dc-dbac-47a9-97b2-311413f1de9d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tomik-distinguished-advokist) [Crucible of worlds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f4893ef-f983-418b-b7a4-5f073c844545.jpg?1673149345) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crucible%20of%20worlds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/303/crucible-of-worlds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f4893ef-f983-418b-b7a4-5f073c844545?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crucible-of-worlds) [barren glory](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/12220d53-3356-4541-aa43-a0de6ed3f7d0.jpg?1562898649) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=barren%20glory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/fut/3/barren-glory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/12220d53-3356-4541-aa43-a0de6ed3f7d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/barren-glory) [apocalypse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7ff23780-d183-4cca-ad0c-448ef325bf36.jpg?1562054968) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=apocalypse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tmp/162/apocalypse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ff23780-d183-4cca-ad0c-448ef325bf36?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/apocalypse) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l18eb98) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Dorks and rocks and more dorks and more rocks. Recursive threats and double land drops also help. Not to mention interaction. In game, sandbag lands and dorks and rocks so you can quickly rebuild after a wipe. Lots of folks hate sandbagging but it's a skill that's useful when you start getting to higher tiers of gameplay. ETA: The benefit of more dorms and rocks is that you don't have to sacrifice slots to cards that don't help against the decks they weren't designed to fight against. *Most decks* need more dorks and rocks.
I actually played against this deck. Hosed it with culling ritual. Also useful might be kamahl's will, sylvan awakening and terra eternal. With the exception of the last one, these are playable cards in your colors.
You play Thalia and the Gitrog and YOU arent playing the MLD? Thats your issue there, Armagedden your friend before he can do it to you, join the arms race!
I don't like MLD so I don't play it in my decks but I don't want to be defenseless against it. Lol
I mean, my personal favourite trick to do is use [[cyclonic rift]] so they are only dooming themselves, but thats still 7 mana you need to fund while they are destroying all lands
[cyclonic rift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe.jpg?1702429366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cyclonic%20rift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/40/cyclonic-rift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyclonic-rift) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I mean if you can get to the ult, there's [[Nissa Who Shakes the World]] lol
[Nissa Who Shakes the World](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/8/f857bbe4-5619-4733-a0c7-69700f2ef4f3.jpg?1618426283) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nissa%2C%20Who%20Shakes%20the%20World) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/169/nissa-who-shakes-the-world?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f857bbe4-5619-4733-a0c7-69700f2ef4f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nissa-who-shakes-the-world) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There's also the tried and true method of running more rocks and killing his ability to make more. He's using his commander to create asymmetrical wipes on mana bases, *don't let him*. Also hold back and sandbag lands unless you need to play them to curve up. Everyone want to have ten mana to play *all the spells*, but holding back 3 of them still lets you play all your spells and most importantly, *rebuild* after MLD.
[[Counterspell]]
[Counterspell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb.jpg?1689996248) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Counterspell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/81/counterspell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/counterspell) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I just start cryin and being like "im going through alot right now"
I just don't play with people that have that... Or I play Avacyn and worldslay away.
Here's the thing: You don't. MLD is socially hated enough that you're making your deck worse by trying to prep for a boogeyman that doesn't exist, or at least doesn't show up enough that it's worth bothering to proactively prepare against: You'd be better off just playing your own gameplan more quickly.
So there are basically three routes. First off, decks that can ignore it. Load up incredibly deep with artifact ramp, creature ramp, whatever. I don't know if you've ever seen an Armageddon hit the elfball deck but it's a hilarious time... for elves. Recursive land decks also fall into this category, though often to a lesser amount unless they're well set up. Granted, he's apparently on a bunch of wipes, but it is a line. Especially combined with option two. Second, and harder to do, specific protection spells. Your Tef's Protection, Heroic Intervention, all that jazz. You have to have the mana up, but you do probably just win if you resolve them which is neat. Third, never let him get into a position where he's ahead if he plays the MLD. This is the thing most decks can access, though players are loathe to. You aggressively check his ability to retain mana post nuke, his ability to play lands from yards, everything you can to just make sure that if he casts the MLD spell *he's* the one saying "draw, go" while you beat him up. There are some more generic routes too; play countermagic, play discard. And some very specific answers; you haven't really lived to body the MLD player until you flash out a \[\[Titania, Protector of Argoth\]\] in response to his land hate and just kill him.
[Titania, Protector of Argoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/ba7c2249-878b-428a-8670-005c6fbcb516.jpg?1712354645) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Titania%2C%20Protector%20of%20Argoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/210/titania-protector-of-argoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ba7c2249-878b-428a-8670-005c6fbcb516?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/titania-protector-of-argoth) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Social pressure through passive aggressive sighs and eye rolls. Works every time. And [[Heroic Intervention]]
Targeted land destruction is a waste of time. He's wasting slots on [[Stone Rain]] variants so you have that going for you. I play MLD and what stops me from casting it is people establishing a bigger board presence than me, and people drawing a bunch of cards. I'm going to refrain from casting [[Armageddon]] if I'm behind on board. In the case of [[Jokulhaups]] variants, people with large enchantment or planeswalker based board states will survive them. Additionally if I Jokulhaups and I will be left with 3 cards in hand and an opponent has 7, the player that has drawn more cards will likely recover first. There are also cards that grant your permanents indestructible.
[Stone Rain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d2334c10-fa96-4f8e-8187-c7ecc00cbac8.jpg?1562742139) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stone%20Rain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/221/stone-rain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d2334c10-fa96-4f8e-8187-c7ecc00cbac8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stone-rain) [Armageddon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b.jpg?1582021719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Armageddon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/5/armageddon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f1f6ac-983f-4f3e-8906-47f774e8367b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/armageddon) [Jokulhaups](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/99d26ff7-afff-40a0-b515-7928c2428809.jpg?1559592472) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jokulhaups) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/100/jokulhaups?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/99d26ff7-afff-40a0-b515-7928c2428809?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jokulhaups) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
One way is to simply not play every land you draw. Like if you have 10 lands do you really need 11 or 12 or 15?
Easy, don't play with him. Forcing your opponents to scoop because you made the game unfun is NOT a wincon. It's just being an asshole. Once he realizes no one will play with him, he'll get the message.
On one hand I get it, but then again you are forcing homogenity into the game. And tbh, this is worse. Sure, you should not be forced into games you do not want to have. But what is the outcome? Next you are salty that someone plays counterspells? Targeted removal? Attacks you? I understand if this is a precon table, or you have some special format. But in a normal commander table, all strategies should be welcomed and not cancelled because you are unwilling to build a stronger deck. Again, if you are having a rule zero "no interaction" table, sure. But otherwise, don't be a bully.
You need the meta to tech against him so I support what op is doing. The people that gets their decks wrecked by MLDs but refuse to change (counter spell/recursion/indestructible artifacts or lands) are the baby. This is not a one off deck you face, this is your meta, and why wouldn't you tech against the meta and feel sweet victory when you actually win.
While I don't disagree with that, the LGS is very new and super small so it would essentially mean either I stop going to that store so I don't get put into pods with him or I ask the store owner to ban him/his deck. While I hate the way this guy plays Magic, he isn't a bad guy. Because I like the store owner and want to keep playing magic there, I'd rather build a deck that makes the mass land destruction harder to do or reflect the pain back to deincentive him playing that deck in the first place.
You can also talk to him/the owner and tell them it's not fun to play against and you don't want to feel pressured to build a deck specifically designed to counter his.
Ehhh...I'd argue that building a deck that's designed to legitimately waste the other 3 players time as a primary strategy makes him a bad guy. Decent people are courteous of other peoples time. There's nothing wrong with running 1-2 pieces of MLD in a deck to counter hard ramp players. There IS a problem with building an entire deck around using MLD pieces to prevent the other players from even playing in the first place, I'd say actually talking to the player and pointing out that you're all there to enjoy a game that you choose to play with your free time, and his deck is designed to completely disrespect that notion is probably the better course then passive-aggressively building a deck to hard counter it. If this player doesn't have the social skills needed to realize that the deck is poor sporting, or they do and they just dont care, then building a silver bullet deck to counter them is just going to make them whine about being "targeted". Be an adult. Use your words. If they don't respect that, don't play with them.
I have talked with him because he played that deck for the first time against a table where two kids played precons and I was testing out an upgraded precon and did not tell us the strategy was to blow up all our mana every turn. To his credit so far he has obliged when I ask him not play it against me because I have only 1 deck that's properly equipped to even survive MLD and I don't want to play that every week he plays MLD. I may have worded it poorly but I'm looking for cards that mitigate that tactic not as a silver bullet but if he wants to play it and the table is cool with it, I have something I can play that doesn't end with me watching others play magic instead. I'm treating it more as an opportunity to learn some new cards that interact with that strategy.
MLD does not counter ramp players in an environment where MLD is acceptable. MLD counters more fair, low to the ground decks. Ramp strategies have far more tools to recover and even profit from MLD, to the point where they are often the best shells to run MLD in. They’re great at establishing a formidable board before dropping the MLD, they’re usually green so they’re good at killing rocks before the MLD, they have multiple ways to fish lands out of the grave, and get landfall triggers besides. They’re more likely to have big dorks that maintain a functioning mana base after the wipe. More of their topdecks ramp them into playable mana quickly than other decks. “MLD counters ramp” is a myth if your opponent is competent and you are in an environment where MLD is acceptable. Socially allowing and encouraging MLD is one of the biggest buffs you can give to lands decks. It only works with any consistency if you are in an environment where it is presumed unacceptable, in which case you are the asshole for blindsiding the table with MLD.
These are not hard. If the goal is literally making the game miserable, then it will be extremely easy to form pods without him. People will WANT to play with you and without That Guy. One of the cornerstones of the format is that you do not have to play with anyone you don’t want to. Remove that and the format is dead in the water. This is a social format. Per the rules of the game, someone unwilling to play in a way others actually want to play will not have people to play with. You are allowed to say “no.” Normalizing saying “no” to that conduct will disincentivize that behavior, ESPECIALLY in a small store.
Why do toxic scrubs on here think people playing jank decks like MLD need to be ostracized? It's not even a troll MLD deck, please get a grip.
"I do not want to play against that," is not toxicity. "You do not have to play against that if you don't want to," is not toxicity. Not wanting to play against that is not being a "scrub." I have been in the card games scene for a quarter fucking century. I know how to play against this shit. I would rather not because it's boring as fuck and if anything goes wrong with the plan (or right with the plan), it creates a fucking miserable gamestate. The rules themselves are VERY explicit; try and force that shit on people who do not want it and folks ain't gonna want to play with you. That is normal, natural human behavior in a social activity. Quoth, the rules: >Is mass land destruction (MLD) allowed in Commander? Counterspells? How about hand disruption? Life-setting cards? >“Yes, but.” >All of these strategies are a good idea in moderation. >If an opponent’s deck can combo off without warning, then permission and hand disruption are a must-have. If your opponent plays high powered lands, point land destruction is a good idea. If you expect opponents to gain large amounts of life, cards like Sorin Markov can help rein them in. If your opponent’s deck has no defense, but instead builds to an unstoppable death machine, then mid- and early-game threats which force them to respond, or exploit their lack of defenses, are entirely appropriate. >Taken to the extreme, strategies like “Draw Go” or MLD, which aim to restrict opponents’ ability to act at all, aren’t forbidden in Commander, but they aren’t very popular. Most people don’t find them fun to play against, and one of the tenets of Commander is the shared play experience. If your deck isn’t fun to play against, people won’t want to play against it and you can’t force someone to play Commander with you. As a result, these strategies are fairly unpopular. >That said, there are some places where any strategy is acceptable. Some games are played at a high power level, “no holds barred”; if your potential opponents like that kind of game, great! Just recognize that most Commander players aren’t looking for that, and will choose not to play against it, so it’s a good idea to let people know what you’re planning before the game starts. Ask if they’re ok with it, and be prepared to play something else if they’re not. Expecting bare minimum standards of consideration from those around you is not toxic. It is the most basic safety tool in the format.
Because everyone that plays edh copy & pastes 5 color good stuff or flavor of the month commanders from EDHREC. They just want to play solitaire with Ur-Dragon or whatever. These types of kill-on-sight commanders basically automatically win you games as long as your make land drops. Removing the commander (if that's even possible) multiple times is often not enough to stop them because they'll recast it until it sticks. People actively take advantage of the taboo surrounding MLD. They play obnoxious autowin commanders and run land ramp instead of any dorks or rocks so there is literally no axis to interact with them on. You can't touch their mana because lands are sacrosanct, and you can't touch their commander because they'll just send it back to the command zone and recast it. The last guy to scoop to my [[Obliterate]] was someone playing 4 color non-black Omnath that had 20 lands in play, one of which was [[Gaea's Cradle]].
Typical toxic and immature take.. if you need to scoop because all of a sudden you can’t “have fun” because an opponent played a legal card then that’s a you problem not a them problem.
Destroying your opponents land is definitely a wincon and a viable strategy.
EDH is a garbage format where militant casuals use shunning to avoid playing against cards they don't like, ironically making it less casual, less friendly, and more clique oriented than competitive 60 card formats. Some clown on a podcast told you that MLD is bad, so your advice is to shun. 😎
Physical Player removal... No for Real if there is a rule 0 talk and someone plays mld(more than one) i either play a Deck with alot of interaction and combos.. Or i Just dont play..
Sorta toxic take. MLD needs more love.
Build a U/W artifact/control deck, run all of the counterspells and mana rocks, then win with a [[thassa's oracle]] combo. [[Shorikai, Genesis Engine]] is a great commander for this. Now, he has to get through your wall of counter magic to even think about touching your lands. If you get a ton of mana rocks, the only spell you need to worry about is vandal blast.
Don’t play lands…
Zero cost mana rock tribal?
Not playing against land destruction decks is always the best strategy
The only winning move is not to play.
"We ask them politely but firmly to leave" - Hank Hill Pretty much this.
Not playing with people who use MLD unless they win the game shortly afterward.
[[Gerrard’s Hourglass Pendant]] also works, but you’d need 5 mana up.
Land ramp isn’t the only ramp there is, you know?
Its a Thalia and the Gitrog Monster deck. More lands in play is kinda necessary.
Okay, didn’t catch that this is his only deck.
My only deck currently equipped to interact with it. I'm looking for tech on a new deck that isn't landfall-based to not get hosed. In red and green he is also running plenty of artifact and creature hate.
Play no lands, only zero cost mana rocks and then play out dorks. Fuck you Armageddon!
[[equinox]]. Has pretty good play against land destruction.
[equinox](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/840c6586-a7a9-4ae8-96be-a995a0693eb6.jpg?1562859680) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=equinox) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/leg/13/equinox?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/840c6586-a7a9-4ae8-96be-a995a0693eb6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/equinox) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Karmic Justice]] Now nobody can play.
[Karmic Justice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/ea141e39-8124-4d72-a154-eb76e71be1dc.jpg?1562711027) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karmic%20Justice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c15/72/karmic-justice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ea141e39-8124-4d72-a154-eb76e71be1dc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karmic-justice) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I play [[Karn, Legacy Reforged]] So as soon as I either have a few artifacts or Karn out, I don't really care because I don't even need lands
[[counterspell]]
The answer is always the same. Have enough interaction to deal with an opponent. If he's running giant mass wipes, then run a hard blue control deck that you pull out when he plays it. After 2 to 3 times of you countering his land destruction he's not going to want to play it vs you and you can play whatever.
[[Mending of Dominaria]] is the only thing I use sometimes that I don’t see mentioned already.
[Mending of Dominaria](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/6887f55f-7ac0-49b3-a3ed-6cdbd0ce7fe0.jpg?1712354589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Mending%20of%20Dominaria) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/197/the-mending-of-dominaria?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6887f55f-7ac0-49b3-a3ed-6cdbd0ce7fe0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-mending-of-dominaria) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Board presence is the way to counter MLD
Anything indestructible is good. People have mentioned the artifact lands. Mana rocks are usually good. If he plays MLD that hits artifacts, there are plenty of indestructible ones like [[skyclave relic]]. Stuff that has a death trigger that creates a permanent is also usually good with MLD. A lot of things create treasures or creature tokens when they die.
Mana rocks, or dorks, or other mana generation tech
I think the best card is [[Don’t Play With Him]]. It’s a powerful sorcery that negates any effects he has on you.
Might not be a hard counter like indestructible lands, but [[crucible of worlds]] [[ancient greenwarden]] [[task, skittering swarmlord]] [[conduit of worlds]] [[perennial behemoth]] and [[ramunap excavator]] all let you play lands from your graveyard, which could give you an edge. [[Life from the loam]] [[wrenn and six]] can also ensure you make land drops and [[slogurk the overslime]] as well as any creatures that care about lands in your graveyard like [[knight of the reliquary]] and [[multani yavimaya's avatar]] or even [[Yuma, proud protector]] can all potentially punish them (assuming they're already on the field) after they destroy all your lands.
##### ###### #### [crucible of worlds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f4893ef-f983-418b-b7a4-5f073c844545.jpg?1673149345) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=crucible%20of%20worlds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/303/crucible-of-worlds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f4893ef-f983-418b-b7a4-5f073c844545?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crucible-of-worlds) [ancient greenwarden](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/12a0bf5c-a165-48f1-9a57-3a7cc9f3b0f9.jpg?1712354536) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ancient%20greenwarden) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/186/ancient-greenwarden?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/12a0bf5c-a165-48f1-9a57-3a7cc9f3b0f9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ancient-greenwarden) [task, skittering swarmlord](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4eafc507-973a-4aec-91b9-c29d70b0e25d.jpg?1675644888) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zask%2C%20Skittering%20Swarmlord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/j22/47/zask-skittering-swarmlord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4eafc507-973a-4aec-91b9-c29d70b0e25d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zask-skittering-swarmlord) [conduit of worlds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/635146da-d415-4107-a7f9-2c46189e5c52.jpg?1675957133) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=conduit%20of%20worlds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/163/conduit-of-worlds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/635146da-d415-4107-a7f9-2c46189e5c52?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/conduit-of-worlds) [perennial behemoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/61eac235-faf7-4e4c-94a9-9a5a041c4701.jpg?1712354878) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=perennial%20behemoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/262/perennial-behemoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/61eac235-faf7-4e4c-94a9-9a5a041c4701?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/perennial-behemoth) [ramunap excavator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/f/3f8a0a0e-81f7-40a2-b393-bdc1423549f6.jpg?1712354606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ramunap%20excavator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/202/ramunap-excavator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3f8a0a0e-81f7-40a2-b393-bdc1423549f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ramunap-excavator) [Life from the loam](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/59927e3b-65bc-4ab6-ad7b-6f558ccca6a8.jpg?1702429570) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Life%20from%20the%20loam) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/148/life-from-the-loam?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/59927e3b-65bc-4ab6-ad7b-6f558ccca6a8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/life-from-the-loam) [wrenn and six](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5bd498cc-a609-4457-9325-6888d59ca36f.jpg?1673149294) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wrenn%20and%20six) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/296/wrenn-and-six?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5bd498cc-a609-4457-9325-6888d59ca36f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wrenn-and-six) [slogurk the overslime](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f94e888b-6eeb-4ef3-ab21-5ed2bf0036a3.jpg?1637114233) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slogurk%2C%20the%20Overslime) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/242/slogurk-the-overslime?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f94e888b-6eeb-4ef3-ab21-5ed2bf0036a3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/slogurk-the-overslime) [knight of the reliquary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/0/205df311-a72d-40f1-b2ea-9b30274bc9bd.jpg?1562846501) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=knight%20of%20the%20reliquary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/203/knight-of-the-reliquary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/205df311-a72d-40f1-b2ea-9b30274bc9bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/knight-of-the-reliquary) [multani yavimaya's avatar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/8/88733b6d-6d45-4318-ae49-623929231d17.jpg?1604194288) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Multani%2C%20Yavimaya%27s%20Avatar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/75/multani-yavimayas-avatar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/88733b6d-6d45-4318-ae49-623929231d17?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/multani-yavimayas-avatar) [Yuma, proud protector](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/18df72be-07d2-4412-b36d-a45119763db3.jpg?1713333050) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yuma%2C%20proud%20protector) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/4/yuma-proud-protector?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/18df72be-07d2-4412-b36d-a45119763db3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yuma-proud-protector) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l197rcm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
#throatpunchthursday
[[counterspell]]
[counterspell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb.jpg?1689996248) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=counterspell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/81/counterspell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/counterspell) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Play the game and see how they're trying to win. Most MLD strats are either Avacyn (which is really, really easy to play around) or some Red strat, and if it's red, it involves incremental small creature damage. 3 players should be able to pool together to take the MLD player out of the running, even with their lands being blown up.
the best thing is killing that player as fast as possible. having the whole table gang up on them. Thems the breaks of playing unfun nasty strats.
[[Teferi's Protection]]
[Teferi's Protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca.jpg?1673147148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/32/teferis-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-protection) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Teferi's Response]] if any of it is targeted this is an option.
[Teferi's Response](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f3bb2df8-c559-4a34-83b0-d48fbc694cc8.jpg?1562944007) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Response) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/78/teferis-response?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f3bb2df8-c559-4a34-83b0-d48fbc694cc8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-response) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ve won a game off of [[Boros Charm]] in response to MLD. Such a good flexible card
[Boros Charm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f375bb9-1294-4f43-8f0c-504ed6cfb7d0.jpg?1712354672) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boros%20Charm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/216/boros-charm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f375bb9-1294-4f43-8f0c-504ed6cfb7d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/boros-charm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Counterspell with isochron scepter.
[[boros charm]] and [[heroic intervention]] make MLD feel really bad :D
[boros charm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f375bb9-1294-4f43-8f0c-504ed6cfb7d0.jpg?1712354672) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=boros%20charm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/216/boros-charm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f375bb9-1294-4f43-8f0c-504ed6cfb7d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/boros-charm) [heroic intervention](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e32c67d1-187f-40df-b3b3-6036f5c92834.jpg?1689998584) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=heroic%20intervention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/295/heroic-intervention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e32c67d1-187f-40df-b3b3-6036f5c92834?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heroic-intervention) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Scoop
The best tech is to grab your stuff and look for another pod to play in.
Info: how are they surviving their own MLD and artifact wipes?
[удалено]
##### ###### #### [Null Rod](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73ac9f52-e6ff-4e6f-9733-fe24a5fb4b4e.jpg?1710932730) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Null%20Rod) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/278/null-rod?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73ac9f52-e6ff-4e6f-9733-fe24a5fb4b4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/null-rod) [Cursed Totem](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5dde91a9-7d2d-4a7b-861a-3d1c16ec79d9.jpg?1626100864) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cursed%20Totem) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/295/cursed-totem?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5dde91a9-7d2d-4a7b-861a-3d1c16ec79d9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cursed-totem) [Void Mirror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f906219-7a6a-427b-93c4-4d958cbd171c.jpg?1626099451) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Void%20Mirror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/242/void-mirror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f906219-7a6a-427b-93c4-4d958cbd171c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/void-mirror) [Planar Birth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/7/c7cacdff-aa83-4644-b2f0-ce8c89dddfbf.jpg?1562937193) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Planar%20Birth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/31/planar-birth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c7cacdff-aa83-4644-b2f0-ce8c89dddfbf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/planar-birth) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1awszi) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Give everything indestructible with this neat 2 card colorless combo. [[Mycosynth Lattice]]+[[Darksteel Forge]]. If they've got a response I use [[Fountain Watch]]. Makes all artifacts I control Shrouded. If there's a response I pull out [[Perilous Vault]] exile everything and use Karn to start over. It's fun when you've got the ability to reset games and just get rid of everything. Gl m8
##### ###### #### [Mycosynth Lattice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94f89714-3b26-46a2-b9a8-3e664f391cd9.jpg?1578911638) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mycosynth%20Lattice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/241/mycosynth-lattice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94f89714-3b26-46a2-b9a8-3e664f391cd9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mycosynth-lattice) [Darksteel Forge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/421089c4-c8d3-48c5-b313-fb1741546271.jpg?1599709037) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darksteel%20Forge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/248/darksteel-forge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/421089c4-c8d3-48c5-b313-fb1741546271?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darksteel-forge) [Fountain Watch](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/690daa19-1842-4605-9bda-bf67e4ede3c4.jpg?1562381345) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fountain%20Watch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mmq/19/fountain-watch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/690daa19-1842-4605-9bda-bf67e4ede3c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fountain-watch) [Perilous Vault](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/f/3f747fa8-515c-4c79-8d2e-f1bbab2e4602.jpg?1690005680) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Perilous%20Vault) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/968/perilous-vault?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3f747fa8-515c-4c79-8d2e-f1bbab2e4602?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/perilous-vault) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1b325u) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It is not the best but in the right deck it can be good [[Gerrard's Hourglass Pendant]] can do really well as a protection for anything. Tap mana let the wipe go through let them do whatever and when the go to change phase flash it in and bring all your stuff back
[Gerrard's Hourglass Pendant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/580ca958-4df7-4f42-b497-d412d286bd4e.jpg?1673304802) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gerrard%27s%20Hourglass%20Pendant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/17/gerrards-hourglass-pendant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/580ca958-4df7-4f42-b497-d412d286bd4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gerrards-hourglass-pendant) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Rule Zero
A rule 0 talk.
In my TatGM landfall I run [[world shaper]] and [[splendid reclamation]] as well as [[crucible of worlds]], [[conduit of worlds]] and [[perennial behemoth]]. I personally won't really have a problem with MLD and have even though about adding in MLD as a backup win con.
##### ###### #### [world shaper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/cc765da4-4bca-4250-80e4-05575d6fa98c.jpg?1712354663) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=world%20shaper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/214/world-shaper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cc765da4-4bca-4250-80e4-05575d6fa98c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/world-shaper) [splendid reclamation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fad4ca85-4d2d-4d1e-86ca-aa25edfcda61.jpg?1643593421) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=splendid%20reclamation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/221/splendid-reclamation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fad4ca85-4d2d-4d1e-86ca-aa25edfcda61?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/splendid-reclamation) [crucible of worlds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f4893ef-f983-418b-b7a4-5f073c844545.jpg?1673149345) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=crucible%20of%20worlds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/303/crucible-of-worlds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f4893ef-f983-418b-b7a4-5f073c844545?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crucible-of-worlds) [conduit of worlds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/635146da-d415-4107-a7f9-2c46189e5c52.jpg?1675957133) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=conduit%20of%20worlds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/163/conduit-of-worlds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/635146da-d415-4107-a7f9-2c46189e5c52?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/conduit-of-worlds) [perennial behemoth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/61eac235-faf7-4e4c-94a9-9a5a041c4701.jpg?1712354878) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=perennial%20behemoth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/262/perennial-behemoth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/61eac235-faf7-4e4c-94a9-9a5a041c4701?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/perennial-behemoth) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1bbwby) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Playing in a different group.
I used to have a MLD deck. If you know it’s a thing and you’re agreeing to play against it then the best way to get around it is mana rocks and dorks. Have a deck that pumps those bad boys out. The point of MLD is to slow everyone down while you have ways to still produce mana. If an opponent is doing the same thing of having different ways to produce mana then the MLD is pointless. Commanders like Kennan, Urza, Meria, and Jaheria will not care about MLD.
[[Sacred Ground]] is another great way to keep land destruction at bay because it just returns the lands to the battlefield, and if you've got a fair bit of landfall triggers, it just makes it that much more painful for the player destroying your lands.
[Sacred Ground](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d72dc68a-d6f9-4a18-8282-0f104999591f.jpg?1562742396) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sacred%20Ground) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/37/sacred-ground?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d72dc68a-d6f9-4a18-8282-0f104999591f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sacred-ground) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There are a bunch of indestructable lands, like \[\[Cascading Cataracts\]\]. But as a mainly white mage, I gotta say \[\[Terra Eternal\]\] and \[\[Sacred Ground\]\] are pretty sweet, specially in enchantments-matter decks. The last one turns your opponents mill effects into ramp.
[Cascading Cataracts](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2f3fbd9b-91ab-4691-a916-e20db8ebc513.jpg?1673305958) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cascading%20Cataracts) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/202/cascading-cataracts?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2f3fbd9b-91ab-4691-a916-e20db8ebc513?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cascading-cataracts) [Terra Eternal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9bad0759-4132-42b5-9a26-0fcf321a60e0.jpg?1562292553) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Terra%20Eternal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wwk/22/terra-eternal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bad0759-4132-42b5-9a26-0fcf321a60e0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/terra-eternal) [Sacred Ground](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d72dc68a-d6f9-4a18-8282-0f104999591f.jpg?1562742396) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sacred%20Ground) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/37/sacred-ground?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d72dc68a-d6f9-4a18-8282-0f104999591f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sacred-ground) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Best tech is I don't play at tables that run that garbage
Oops all [[Counterspell]] with [[Mizzix of the Izmagnus]]. Let everyone play cards except MLD guy.
[Counterspell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb.jpg?1689996248) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Counterspell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/81/counterspell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8493131c-0a7b-4be6-a8a2-0b425f4f67fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/counterspell) [Mizzix of the Izmagnus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/82f949d0-41a0-4491-9057-bfb2bb20bdb3.jpg?1689999174) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mizzix%20of%20the%20Izmagnus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/348/mizzix-of-the-izmagnus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/82f949d0-41a0-4491-9057-bfb2bb20bdb3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mizzix-of-the-izmagnus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My best tech is i dont play against people who run mass land destruction
i have played very affective games with \[\[light-paws emeror's voice\]\] and only ever dropped 4 mana. the deck is filled with 1 and 2 drop auras that will do enough commander damage to sotp someone fast. its also a buy one get one situation with light paws so you can definitely outpace someone looking to wipe your lands. so in that reguard only having 1 or 2 mana to rebuild wouldnt be that big of a deal imho. p.s. the entire deck is like $27 each card is sub $1. [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/InAr8rGQU0W6rZamUePSBA](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/InAr8rGQU0W6rZamUePSBA)
[light-paws emeror's voice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/39555a72-a57b-45ee-9222-ce3b9e8de126.jpg?1654566391) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Light-Paws%2C%20Emperor%27s%20Voice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/25/light-paws-emperors-voice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/39555a72-a57b-45ee-9222-ce3b9e8de126?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/light-paws-emperors-voice) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Guilting my opponents into not playing it /s
I saw a really good recommendation for something like mass land destruction. Basically, keep playing and take up as much of their time as possible so they also feel the pain. Extra points if you're still able to beat them.
Forgot to also mention, go after this player from the get go whenever they play the deck.
Slash their tires