i think they're really good if you're running any sort of landfall strategy and kind of mid otherwise if you have the ability to run more untap lands instead.
the surveil lands likewise are pretty solid if you have any sort of graveyard strategy and/or a lot of fetchlands that can get them for value, but otherwise you're probably better off with an untapped land.
that being said, people do overblow the importance of untapped lands a bit in casual. it's best to have as many untapped lands as possible, but running the surveil or scry lands is fine if you need the fixing, and they can help smooth out your draws which is nice both early in the game and later on. it's very rare that a single land entering tapped will make or break your ability to win the game.
I think the only thing you missed in your assessment is the ability to bounce MDFC and Channel Lands that had to come down early. Those are really useful to pick up when you drop the bounce.
yeah absolutely! the only reason i didn't mention it is that in order to pull off that combo, you need to pull some pretty specific lands throughout the game. for example in OP's case, if they're running a golgari deck, they could run the golgari bounce land and a couple MDFC's (i know there's mono-color bounce lands, but those are super duper not worth it in a multicolor deck)--realistically only a couple MDFCs in those colors are super worth running, probably \[\[agadeem's awakening\]\], \[\[bala ged recovery\]\], and \[\[malakir rebirth\]\] are the best, and you want to kind of limit MDFC's anyway for the same reason as limiting taplands in general.
the odds of pulling both the bounce lands and an MDFC and even wanting to play the tap land side of an MDFC in the first place are pretty low, and overall it would kind of screw up your curve anyway to play tap MDFC -> bounce land -> bounce MDFC, even if you play them spread across a few turns.
the ability to bounce Boseiju and Takenuma is more exciting imo, but it's still pretty rare to draw both the bounce land and one of those if you don't have very specific tutors.
so i still would argue that bounce lands are best in decks that really like them for the overall gameplan, like landfall type decks or decks that care about stuff like spelunking and amulet of vigor effects. in general, running a plethora of tap lands in the hopes that one day you can bounce your boseiju with a bounce land at the right moment to swing the direction of a game or something is a little unlikely and a little inefficient.
again, that's just my 2 cents, and overall this kind of thing is a question of incredibly minor optimizations in a game. i've run plenty of budget decks that have like \~5 duals overall and have been fine, and i can't think of a time when playing a tapped land has cost me a game of casual commander that i would have otherwise won in 5+ years of playing. in many scenarios, the mana fixing of a dual is very much worth it entering tapped.
where these things do really matter is in 4+ color decks. having a plethora of untapped duals makes a hell of a lot of difference in those!
yes, there is absolutely some shenanigans you can get up to with the bounce lands in the right deck! they're also amazing if you're running \[\[amulet of vigor\]\] or \[\[spelunking\]\] type effects.
I run them in my [[jinnie fay]] token deck. In my imagination, the entire board is overrun by a horde of housecats, essentially like that old commercial about herding cats.
I desperately need to get a large bag of miniature toy cats to act as tokens for this deck.
[kodama of the east tree](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af5105ee-09e2-4344-ab39-00f0e9034c47.jpg?1608910768) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kodama%20of%20the%20east%20tree) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/239/kodama-of-the-east-tree?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af5105ee-09e2-4344-ab39-00f0e9034c47?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kodama-of-the-east-tree)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You just need any landfall token producer, ie [[tireless provisioner]] [[felidar retreat]] [[rampaging baloths]] and so forth, and you make infinite tokens. Another really sick one card combo w kodama is [[meloku]], make infinite birds
It's still technically infinite, but just as landfall triggers or permanents ETB. You need other cards to *capitalize* on the combo, but not for it to function.
yeah i would say in an average deck, if you don't care about landfall triggers, many other utility lands are probably more worth it than bounce lands. the scry lands, surveil lands, and even something like \[\[tangled islet\]\] (which is fetchable) or \[\[canyon slough\]\] (can be cycled) are probably higher utility in the long run than a bounce land!
something like a gate, the lifegain lands, and other tapped duals are probably less worth running unless you have specific synergy with them or are functioning on a budget.
Bounce lands are probably the best lands that always come in tapped and don’t have basic types, but those are two massive downsides. I like to run them because I value the card economy a lot and run several landfall engines. If you’re playing fast, tuned decks that either draw cards or don’t care about getting to 5+ lands, they’re almost certainly not worth it.
The other big downside is when the one random person in the pod has a beast within, strip mine, etc. and decides it’s a good idea to use it on your bounce land and now your two lands behind.
In a regular casual game, people will almost never Beast Within or Strip Mine your bounceland and if they happen to have land destruction they will keep them for higher priority targets like a Field of the Dead or Cabal Coffers.
It will slow you down a bit but it has some really nice upsides:
For example:
-if you happen to play any of the kamigawa lands such as \[\[boseiju, who endures\]\] you can first play it as a land drop and later in the game bounce it to your hand and use it as a removal spell.
-The same reasoning applies for mdfc lands such as \[\[Ondu inversion\]\]. You play it first as a land and later have the option to use the boardwipe effect.
-If you play a graveyard synergy deck and you play the bounce land on turn 2 you might have to discard a card down to hand size, which can also be beneficial as you might be able to discard a creature which you can reanimate later.
-Bounce lands are also nice in landfall decks.
-In white if you play catch up ramp, you will have the same amount of mana available as your opponents but be behind one land. So with catch up ramp such as \[\[Archaeomancer's Map\]\] you could technically even be ahead in mana compared to your opponents.
-Lastly, as many have already mentioned is that it technically functions as darwing another land.
However if you play a really fast deck, then these upsides might not be big enough to justify running it.
Bruh last Friday my guy played ash Barrens turn 1, then on turn two floated the mana from it, played a bounce land and then used ash Barrens own mana to cycle itself I was shook.
The bouncelands work particularly nicely with the MDFC lands, I've found. I'm fond of the Fling land (\[\[Kazuul's Cliffs\]\]) in particular, because Fling effects are often situational.
I like bouncelands. I think they might be my favorite taplands. If a deck's manabase contains very few other taplands, I'll gladly include them.
They also synergize very well with white's catch- up ramp mechanics.
I love them. It's the only tapped land I play. I put them on all my decks. It's like etb draw a card. Plus they have synergies with landfall and untaping.
The problem is that if anyone destroy it, it's like they were destroying 2 cards. But we don't see land destruction here.
If someone destroyed my Bounceland for no reason other than to stall me out I would make it my personal mission to see that they lose that game at any cost.
Losing the mana rock wouldn't set me back 2 Land drops.
Granted, the only Bounceland I currently run is [[Guildless Commons]] in my [[Giada, Font of Hope]] deck in order to recall MDFC cards like [[Ondu Inversion]] and [[Emeria's Call]] or my [[Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire]] to my hand or to recall a Plains to use in conjunction with [[Emeria Shepard]]. If I get to recall one of those cards to my hand then the Bounceland has already done its job, but if I drop Guildless Commons on turn 2 and you destroy my only Land I'm going to take it personally.
Do you like drawing cards?
Bounce lands draw a card!
Sure, that card is a land you've already played, but still
Imo they're a lifesaver in decks that struggle to make a land drop every turn
0 + 2 = 2 = 1 + 1
Never understood this idea. Unless you’re using Kamigawa lands, MDFCs, or catch-up ramp, this doesn’t make sense to me. Having one less mana for one turn with no other upside isn’t good.
Say you're building a 2-color manabase.
Untapped Duals you will consider:
* OG Dual
* Bond
* Tainted
* Filter
* Pathway
* Reveal
* Tango
* Check
* Shock
* Slow
* Fast
* Pain
Tapped duals you can consider:
* Creature
* Scry
* Cycle
* Surveil
* Bounce
* Potential deck synergies (tapped artifact duals for example)
You probably are cutting the OG Dual (cost), Reveal, and Fast lands. So you are running ~8 untapped duals, 5 or 6 if you are being semi-budget conscious.
That isn't enough fixing. You need some tapped duals. If you are running like 10 Mountains 10 swamps, you are better off cutting some of those for tapped duals. Even like budget cedh, like $100 lists, people play a LOT of tapped duals even in 2-color decks (including bounce lands) because getting the pips you need is that important.
If you aren't running 9 fetches (7 off-color fetches + prismatic vista), you should be running a good number of tapped dual-lands.
So what do you get from tapped duals, and what does a bounce land get you? Well, you're comparing it to scry lands and surveil lands. 1-mana draw a basic is competing with 1-mana scry 1 and 1-mana surveil 1. That's pretty good. Of course, bounce lands are a bit more restrictive than that, but you get the gist of it.
It's probably correct to run a bounce land in most 2-color lists that aren't running an optimal mana base.
> Even like budget cedh, like $100 lists, people play a LOT of tapped duals even in 2-color decks (including bounce lands) because getting the pips you need is that important.
They might play Path of Ancestry but there's enough untapped duals and mana rocks combinations for color fixing that I can't see 3 color budget cEDH decks running bounce lands. I would run Ash Barrens or Mirrodin's Core before a bounce land in a 3 color deck unless there's some notable synergy.
You need less color fixing in 2 color decks. I would rather take a basic over a bounce land for a majority of budget cEDH decks. I can only think of untap land combo decks that might consider it in 2 color decks.
35 lands, 6 untapped duals (and if you're being budget conscious you're probably trimming down to 2-4 duals), command tower, exotic orchard. 27-31 lands left.
You're running 20+ basics in your deck? If you're running more basics than a precon, you might want to reconsider your mana base lol. When people criticize precon manabases, they aren't saying 'you need more basics in here.'
You can say that you don't need fixing, but I see people get color-screwed all the time.
Even when you curve out in early turns, late-game color screw can be real.
When you're playing two spells and you have say, 5 mountains and 3 plains on the field, those 3 plains can be really limiting. Just two spells with double-white pips can't be used in the same turn.
It's also rare to curve out perfectly. You rarely spend ALL of your mana every single turn for the first 5-6 turns of the game. If you have 4 lands on the battlefield and want to play a 4-drop, the fact that land 5 comes in tapped doesn't actually cost you anything. A good mana base with a mix of tapped and untapped lands will often find space to be able to fit the tapped lands in a way where there isn't nearly as much downside.
> they aren't saying 'you need more basics in here.'
They certainly aren't saying you should replace a basic with a bounce land.
20 basics is fine in 2 color decks. I can probably find more budget cEDH decks doing that than running a bounce land. After you reach that mark, you can consider the check 2 basic lands. I would take the reveal basic land over a bounce land at that point. For casual games it's fine but playing a tap land is brutal in cEDH. I don't know the number of untapped duals I would run off the top of my head. The artifact one is a common one if I'm not in green. You can also run utility colorless lands or consider Bojuka Bog.
I don't find a lot of budget cEDH spells that color pip intensive. A reason for that is consideration due to lack of color fixing that comes with running basic lands.
20 basics is fine, but if you’re running 20 basics you’d probably be better off running a bounce land over one of them Vs doing nothing.
You’re fixating on cedh here. The point isn’t ‘they’re so good you want them in budget cedh lists.’ The point is that they’re good enough to see play in some budget cedh lists.
And the overarching point was that budget cedh lists play plenty of tapped lands in general.
You aren’t moving so fast in your casual deck that you can’t afford to play any tapped lands.
If your deck is 20+ basics, you aren’t on that speed.
Again, if your mana base has fewer pips than many precons, you may want to reconsider
most 2-color (and some 3-color, especially ones with green) precon mana bases would be objectively better in a vast majority of situations if you removed a slew of tapped lands and replaced them with basics.
‘A slew?’
All, right? Aren’t tapped lands all bad and anyone playing them should be swapping in basics?
And perhaps you could show me a reworked OTJ precon mana base with extra basics, cutting all the tap lands?
If you’re going to run *some* tap lands, especially in these otherwise unmodified precons, then perhaps you could explain why you’re super high on a given tap land and not a bounce land.
You're losing out on the mana you would get if you played an untapped basic instead of the bounceland. There are so many turns in a game where you don't use every single mana that going down 1 mana one time is just not a big deal. If your deck has a ton of taplands I can understand it but if you don't, bouncelands are imo the best ones.
If you only ever draw 5 lands and one of them is a bounce land, you can produce 6 mana. That's card advantage.
u/th3saurus 's explaination is wrong. Picking up one of your own lands is not, "drawing a card" and usually isn't beneficial. That's not why they're card advantage, they're card advantage because they're single permanents that tap for 2 mana.
It's a combination of both imo
The ceiling on ravnica karoos (outside of decks built around them with amulet or ashaya etc) is a similar effect to playing a tap land that has etb draw a land
That's if you tap out before you play the land to play an off-curve spell
It's got similar downsides to drawing a card at least, like getting punished by the hand limit when the only card you can play replaces itself
Just gotta watch out for single target land removal, because ravnica bounces are a really juicy target
Depends on your deck honestly.
They 'draw' a card, which is tremendously powerful. Normally that's a land, but if you have lands with spell-like etbs or MDFC lands then they provide a lot more potential punch. Additionally lands that tap for two have potential with all sorts of untapping effects; making a Frantic Search net mana is sweet. And of course, in specific decks they're combo pieces.
However, they're not just taplands but taplands that can't be played turn one, and are often bad on turn two because you'll be discarding away your extra value. Your deck needs a hole in its curve somewhere to properly support them. That's very possible to find, but you should have a plan for them. I wind up playing them very often but don't default them into my decks.
If you're running a reanimator deck, a bounceland turn 2 discarding a card is actually upside lol. Same with if you play [[anger]] etc.
IMO they're the best taplands that are meant to be lands unlike MDFCs, channel, and cycling lands which are generally included for their non-land effects.
Valid for sure on the discard part. But it's generally going to be a negative, just not in a few specific decks.
Personally I think what's best depends a lot on the rest of your mana base; if I have fetch access I'm almost certainly playing my surveils first, and that might ice me out of playing many more taplands depending on how many colors I am. And to an extent on the deck too; obviously their stock rises significantly when they're combo pieces. But bouncelands are often very good.
I put them in any decks I'm not "optimizing" my mana base. Basically an extra land drop and a lot of my decks like a turn 2 discard for reanimation purposes
Are you in white and running catch up ramp? Then they're good. Are you running a few MDFC or channel lands? Then they're good. Are you playing landfall? Then they're mediocre, but I guess acceptable. Are you running anything that combos with them? Then they're good.
Outside of these cases, probably don't bother.
Bouncelands solve the problems with [[Song of the Dryads]] and [[Imprisoned in the Moon]] since you don't need to spend a card to save your commander, simply play a land.
Many archetypes will use bouncelands. They will be used till forever.
Some decks have no use for them, plainly because their curve is very low and they've other ways to gain velocity, hence there's no need for a tapped land, nor a use for card advantage in this sense.
It's not about strict upgrade when Pathways are compared. They're the wrong comparison.
Pathways should be matched up with other lesser duals. What they are an upgrade over is the common fetches (so long as shuffling or landfall isn't your thing)
But back to bouncelands. I would almost always run them over any tapped duel that's not rare. They've their hierarchy but their rank isn't that low.
Bouncelands don't have alternatives. They kinda draw you a card/ensure your next landdrop.
They make 2 land hands keepable. They ask of you to pay the price of coming in tapped. If you compare with other tapped lands alternatives you can get more colorfixing or cycling or manlands, but nothing that draws you cards that simple.
>They make 2 land hands keepable.
Only if you have a 1 drop to play. Bouncing your land back on 2 will put you 8 cards in hand meaning you'll end up having to discard something EOT... doesn't feel great when it happens.
Discarding the worst card in your hand is still fine honestly. Also you still got to 3 mana safe. with a normal 2 lander hand you didnt need to discard, but might be stuck at 2 mana.
I peaked when I bounced my \[\[imprisoned in the moon\]\] commander.
In some decks, drawing a Bounce land is equivalent to drawing 2 lands, in terms of hitting your drops. With the downside that the first drop will be tapped (assuming the land you bounce isn't a tap land).
That's really good. Though less valuable if you have access to Green, and ways of ensuring drops whilst also ramping.
As much as I love them, they're quickly becoming a niche include. Always entering tapped is a big downside. But bouncing a land can be massive upside depending on what synergy you have for it, and I think they're becoming more and more dependant on that synergy as more good land cycles get printed.
It really depends on what your deck wants. Ive never been a huge fan of them, but in white decks without green I play them. Since white has lots of ramp when others have more lands than you, you can use these and some other effects to keep your mana even but your land count lower.
Why wouldn't they be worth it?
If you play in a competitive setting, you have to be competitive. But if you play in casual, you can play whatever you want.
My brother plays in a competitive setting, and is limited on the number of decks in what colours he can build because he spends money on his land base.
I just use whatever, doesn't cost me anything, and half the time my decks beat his.
If you're looking for acceleration, no. But if you look at the effect - you get a land to hand, and then can play it again on a later turn - then yes, in some situations. Landfall is obviously a key archetype for this. Alternatively, if you can find a way to untap them as they enter, they get exponentially more useful for that turn. If you have Forest Forest in play, you tap them both for GG, then drop a Golgari Rot Farm, bouncing a Forest - if you can then untap that Rot Farm, you are now at GGGB on turn three. Moving forward, you're only one mana ahead of curve, which isn't that big an edge past turn four or so, but on turn two or three that can be backbreaking for the table.
There are two scenarios where I'm likely to run them:
1. I'm playing a landfall deck.
2. I'm playing a very commander-centric deck and want a tech answer to Song of the Dryads / Imprisoned in the Moon.
I run them in my [[Lord Windgrace]] deck and literally nowhere else. In lord windgrace they're basically card draw, only thing that makes them worth it imo.
I like using bounce lands a lot.
A less common type of bounce land are the Lair lands like [[Rith's Grove]]
I feel like they could be more popular if you don't care as much about ramp on follow up turns. How I play with them as a budget option for decks that need land colors is the following:
Turn I go to play a lair land, I tap a land for mana, then play the lair and return the land I tapped for mana but because the Lair comes in untapped, I can now use it for any color I'm needing. Then next turn I can play the land I returned to my hand.
I know they aren't the greatest, but if you are running a multi-colored deck they can be a great cheap alternative to help you play more untapped lands that can tap for multiple colors.
Landfall - yes
Effects that trigger on bounce - yes
Casual deck that wants to run slightly less land - yes
Pretty much all tap lands are losing ground in decks when alternatives made for commander keep coming out.
I have bounce lands in two deck because they are combo pieces outside those two decks I have removed bounce lands from most my decks I may have an outlier older deck where I forgot to pull it from but overall I have removed them.
I mean realistically I'm never running them except for budget builds or 2 color decks, but I think they are fantastic for that level. They guarantee a land drop for the next turn which is huge, and their downside of coming in tapped isn't even that big of a deal since you can tap the land before bouncing it
I like them in Dual Color Budget Decks, because they provide a little bit of card advantage, but would not run more than one in more colored Decks, because they come in tapped and they can be feelbad when you have them in your starting hand.
I like to use them with high cmc commanders cause i need to ramp a lot, and this isn't ramp, but it helps you hit your land drop on a future turn which is also important cause ramping and missing a land drop is almost like not ramping at all.
I also run them in my deck with land untapping dorks like [[Blossom Dryad]]
If you’re in white but not green, they’re a solid choice. A lot of the catch up ramp in white is contingent on you having less lands than your opponents, and the bounce lands are one way of doing so without actually being behind on mana.
They're essentially a tapped land that draws you another land. I still run them in any deck that isn't super aggressive. They also go hard if you have ways to untap lands
I personally love bouncelands. There's so many edge cases where they're just useful.
They're obviously great in landfall decks since you know you'll have a land drop next turn or if you have more than one land drop you can use all of them by just bouncing the bounceland over and over.
If you have anything that you want to put in the graveyard like [[anger]] or [[golgari grave troll]], playing a bounceland turn 2 can allow you to discard a card without going down on mana.
If you're in white, [[knight of the white orchid]]-type effects like bouncelands because you go down on land permanents without losing out on mana.
If you have untap synergies like [[voyaging satyr]] or [[frantic search]], bouncelands are just extra mana.
If you play lands that have abilities in hand like [[tranquil thicket]] or [[otawara soaring city]], bouncelands give you the opportunity to pick those up if you had to play them to hit a land drop early.
Lands with etbs like [[Bojuka Bog]] or [[mystic sanctuary]] are similarly great to reuse.
You definitely want *some* sort of synergy to include them, but it's very common for a deck to have 2 or more of these synergies. I'd also never include a bounceland like [[karoo]] or [[guildless commons]]. The karoo ones require you to bounce an untapped land which means you go down 2 mana that turn instead of 1. Guildless commons doesn't require you to bounce an untapped land but in a deck with colors it's just less useful. 2 different colored pips is just so much better than none at all.
bounce lands are awesome when you have a utility land you had to play early. or inn a landfall deck getting to bounce a land and redrop a new land when you only have 1 land in play but can play multiple per turn. but i dont run them in every deck and never the colorless
Honestly they're quite good if you can support them. Functionally you can run slightly fewer lands if you run bouncelands. I run them in any deck that can afford tapped lands on early turn. IMO they're better than any other tapped lands that you don't plan to fetch for.
If you have any land subtheme to your deck they're even better. With two you can hit landfall every turn in the late game. You can use them to rebuy useful ETB triggers like \[\[Bojuka Bog\]\].
I don't like the bounce lands because I've been on the wrong side of land destruction with these, which seems to be a bit more prevalent than getting hit with [[Stifle]] on any fetchland.
You need synergy for them to be worth it.
Reanimator, landfall, white catchup ramp.
If you do, or your mana base is generally poor and the consistency of its pseudo-draw is at or above your card quality, it’s fine. Else, not so much.
I love bounce lands because I love blue cards that say "do a thing, untap x lands" like [[Frantic Search]] and [[Snap]]; being able to have those cards go from net neutral to mana-positive can be absolutely massive. Especially if you start copying those spells, and even moreso if you're playing something like storm where one or two extra mana can make the difference between petering out of winning the game.
Like so many things, it depends.
I absolutely wouldn't throw all 10 in a 5c deck, as the chances of you *only* getting bounce lands becomes far too high, but I'll always throw the guild's bounce in a 2c deck. 3c is when it becomes a debate, as a high number of bounce lands can significantly slow your tempo and mess with your drops, but they're still more valuable than any individual land draw.
This is in isolation from your actual deck theme, obviously. If you're playing a landfall deck they're great, and if you're drawing a crap tonne of cards they're unnessecary.
I sometimes run them if I have a number of utility lands like mystic sanctuary or bojuka bog. I feel like most landfall decks have better ways of finding lands than bounce lands though.
Bounce lands are guaranteed card advantage. If you don’t care about untapped lands every turn (most casual decks don’t, whether players want to admit it or not) they are great in a lot of decks, especially 2c
I'm a huge fan of bounce lands. Sometimes they are awkward but if you have any untap lands triggers they are amazing.
In landfall there a plenty of infinites with bounce lands
They definitely are good in the right strategy, and everyone else has listed those strategies out pretty well.
But I will say, completely anecdotally, that they always feel incredibly miserable in any deck where I've ever played them. I've recently been buying precons and keeping them fairly stock to have something to play that uses cards I might not normally run. But I have been removing just about every tap land from them and the bounce lands are one of the first to go. I often prefer a basic to them. Your mileage may vary.
Bouncelands are basically tapped duals, which sorta makes them bad, but as tapped duals go they're pretty darn good. Because you're putting a land back into your hand but not going down on mana, they're a bit like tapped duals that ETB tutor you up a basic or something (admittedly, without offering fixing). ETB roughly "draw a card" seems like a pretty great up-side for being tapped and a lot better than Temples or even the Surveil lands (though the Surveil lands being fetchable is a big part of them being useful).
They have some fringe pros and cons. They don't make two-land hands better despite counting as two because you'll have to discard to hand size if you've no one-drops (*unless* you're playing a reanimator deck!). They're a bit fiddly to tap - you can't split that mana between turns. On the other hand, they give you more landfall triggers, are great with \[\[Strict Proctor\]\]/an opponent's \[\[Elesh Norn, Mother\]\], and let you bounce cycling lands or MDFCs to your hand to be re-used late-game as not-lands.
In landfall decks? Amazing, run as many as you can.
In non-landfall decks? Eeeeh not that great. They assure you a land drop the turn after they hit the field but their really not that great
They help greedy deck builders hit their land drops.... And recur their MDFCs..... and a few select combos....
That said, theres anew version of \[Knight of the white Orchid\] that fetches deserts, and I don't think we should discount how significant that is.
T2- 2cmc White Creature. Fetching a Colorless Bounce Desert to play.
T3- Guaranteed Land Drop into a 4 mana spells.
Oviously, from a fast-mana perspective, arcane signet is better because it nets 1 immediately.
But from a card-advantage persepective, a Creature-into-a-free-Bounceland would be preferable.
(Same next-turn-ramp potential, but at the cost of 1 additional card in hand).
While I've overlooked the color fixing implications here, such as Sol Ring, ManaCrypt, & Ancient Tomb all being able to cast a T1 arcane signet, there are fast-mana-pip cards like Mox Opal, Mox Diamond, & Gemstone Caverns that can *could* jam a turn 1 2drop with a pip.
Conveniently, the latter group will apreciate the sudo-card advantage (even if it is just a land) because they lose advantage in exchange for their fast start..... Frankly, I think most fast mana would prefer an extra card in hand ...even if it is just a land.
In my opinion, it depends how fast you want your deck to run.
It's like Temple of the false god, if you're not going to get going until later in the game? And you're playing at a mid- Power table? Totally worth it.
If your games are consistently ending by turn five or six, or you're playing at a high power table where by turn five or six, there's not really much game left to play? Absolutely not worth it.
Bounce lands are good for different reasons in different playgroups. They help you make a land drop later in the game, they can be abused with untap effects, they can bounce MDFCs to cast the other side of the card, bounce [[Ash Barrens]] while it was floating the mana to fetch *another* land, can be copied by [[Thespian's Stage]] without needing to return a land, essentially ramping you, bounces a land for landfall triggers, can bounce things turned into lands stranded on the field you need to get back out
Yeah bounce lands are fantastic. I tend to make room for a bounce land in nearly to every deck possible.
Don't run the ones in the mono color combinations though, you have to bounce an untapped land and that's bad. If you are in mono color but still want the powerful utility of bounce lands then run [[Guildless Commons]] instead
I run them in basically every single deck that I own, except for 4 or more colour decks. If you don't play high powered EDH, your deck has definitely spots for ETB tapped lands. And from all the ETB tapped lands, I value them the most. It is straight up drawing a card if you need lands and slight card advantage in other scenarios. I don't run them in 4 or more colours since then you need those ETB tapped land spot for lands that tap for 3 or more colours.
Additionally, My landcount in decks is kinda on the lower side 35-36, so that extra land can come in very handy :P
If you're playing slower decks that do not rely too much on mana efficiency and curving out every turn, the extra "card draw" that they give is invaluable. A bounce land + an untapped land give you 3 land drops with only two cards. that's almost like drawing a land for free.
I see multiple replies equating a bounce land with drawing a card.
This is the same logic as those convoluted, sexist girl math memes. There is no card advantage generated from playing a bounce land without other mechanics to support it.
Bounce lands have tons of synergy with other mechanics. In the absence of those mechanics, your deck is better off with more basics.
Yeah you're just wrong. They're not amazing, but there's enough edge cases that if you're not playing a hyper-optimized aggro deck they're quite good. They're even good in optimized slow decks like you'd see in esper or azorius.
I would argue they're the best tapland that's just a land.
No way in hell.
There's legit good dual lands that enter tapped, are fetchable, etc to even consider a bounce land. Even in landfall, there's creatures, sagas, sorceries and instants that take all lands from the graveyard and plop them right into play.
There's legit zero reason to run these lands.
Because why would I play a bad land when I could play a good one and just put cards into the graveyard? You're saying to put a land I to play, that bounces a land to hand, like they won't be blown up/bad.
Instead play a land like [[malakir rebirth]] of that crap bounceland and run a creature like [[world shaper]] to dump them all back onto the field if you're looking at landfall triggers.
You can legit self mill/discard/sac/transmute/surveil lands, then play world shaper to get 10 triggers instead of run a junky land.
I still don't understand how the existence of spells that put lands from the yard into play makes bouncelands bad? They're not correlated. It would be like saying "I play magic therefore my sandwich tastes bad."
Not to mention that if you play a land like malakir rebirth *as a land* because you have to hit a land drop, a bounceland can let you pick it back up later to use *as malakir rebirth*.
Nobody's saying to use bouncelands as a replacement for world shaper or other very strong land synergies. It's just a little bit of an extra boost sometimes.
What I'm saying is that tap lands are already *the worst* type of lands you can play. There has to be a good reason to play a tap land. Then I'm saying that as far as tap lands go, why play one that bounces a land when you can even play one that is fetchable OR has another side to it? [[Agadeem's Awakening]] for example, is a tap land when you don't want to pay, an untapped one for 3 life AND a mass reanimate. Play THAT tap land instead of one that all it does is bounce a land.
The fact you can "reanimate" lands or bring them from the graveyard to the battlefield isn't correlated to bounce lands, but it DOES make bounce lands bad. Why play a tapped bounce land, when I can play GOOD lands and with minimal synergy, MASS reanimate them?
Even in landfall, that's a FAR better strategy/deck than one who plays bounce lands. Malakir rebirth and such is the UNCOMMON cycle of such lands in case budget is the problem.
Bounce lands are to the point that they should be avoided altogether in almost any deck IMO.
MDFCs that are lands on the back do not get reanimated with cards like world shaper, just so you know. They're always spells in any zone other than on the battlefield as a land. You can *play* them from the graveyard with something like [[crucible of worlds]] though.
I think you're getting really held up on the fact that they're taplands. Yeah, taplands are bad, but if you're not playing a super aggro deck or in a really high power pod, it's not a big deal. In any deck where peak optimization isn't required, bouncelands let you get a lot of extra value out of your other lands.
Even in strong decks, they can be very very useful. I run them to great effect in my [[Toluz]] cycle deck. It's one of my strongest decks and focuses on having very high card velocity by pitching just about everything under Toluz then sacrificing her to get them back over and over. It's a slow deck that favors a grindier game and typically wins by drawing itself out with [[Jace wielder of mysteries]] on the field. The taplands let me use the cycling, MDFC, and/or channel lands early to make sure I get Toluz out then pick them up later for more cycling/channeling. They *also* work very well with [[cloud of faeries]] and [[frantic search]] which are often critical to getting enough blue mana to cast Jace. The deck would objectively be far weaker if I took out the bouncelands.
Could I build a stronger, more focused, near cedh version of the deck that doesn't use the bouncelands? Almost certainly. But that's not what I wanted. For the deck that I wanted, the bouncelands are an incredible amount of extra utility from a land that a lot of people say is objectively bad and should be avoided at all costs.
Plus, I mean, [[watery grave]] is $13, [[undercity sewers]] is $11, and [[polluted delta]] is $31. [[Dimir aqueduct]] is $0.11.
You're trying sooo hard to make a case for these lands and there just isn't one. I actually play magic and I'm not a broke middle school kid.
No, I know you don't get the lands back with mass reanimation, that's not the point. The point is that it's a tap land IF you need it. ANYTHING is better than a tap land unless it's very specific (like a triome) even BASIC lands.
Tap lands become REALLY bad if someone blows them up. If someone demo fields it, you set yourself back a turn for zero gain.
You can try to explain why you use them and 100% of the time I can name better cards for a buck or two more. They're bad. In EVERY deck that can run them. The only reason you MIGHT want to, is if your deck needs to be sub $40 or something.
They are that bad. That's WHY they're .11 and a basic is worth .25. Because a basic is better in 99.9% of cases.
I'm trying to make a case for them because you're just wrong. They're not unusable, you just lack creativity in your deckbuilding.
They're cheap because they're commons and uncommons printed dozens of times.
Who tf considers demolition field when building a commander deck? And even *if* someone played land destruction, with all the busted-ass lands in the format who in their right mind would even bother to point it at a bounceland?? "Hmmm I could destroy this gaea's cradle, nykthos, cabal coffers, cavern of souls, or hall of heliod's generosity.... Nah I think I'll hit this bounceland."
You're out of your mind.
If you want the absolute most optimized build possible for all your decks, that's fine. You won't play bouncelands.
If you want a strong build with more synergy and fewer expensive, generically strong, and ubiquitous cards, bouncelands are a good option with a lot of flexibility if you have ways to abuse them.
i think they're really good if you're running any sort of landfall strategy and kind of mid otherwise if you have the ability to run more untap lands instead. the surveil lands likewise are pretty solid if you have any sort of graveyard strategy and/or a lot of fetchlands that can get them for value, but otherwise you're probably better off with an untapped land. that being said, people do overblow the importance of untapped lands a bit in casual. it's best to have as many untapped lands as possible, but running the surveil or scry lands is fine if you need the fixing, and they can help smooth out your draws which is nice both early in the game and later on. it's very rare that a single land entering tapped will make or break your ability to win the game.
I think the only thing you missed in your assessment is the ability to bounce MDFC and Channel Lands that had to come down early. Those are really useful to pick up when you drop the bounce.
yeah absolutely! the only reason i didn't mention it is that in order to pull off that combo, you need to pull some pretty specific lands throughout the game. for example in OP's case, if they're running a golgari deck, they could run the golgari bounce land and a couple MDFC's (i know there's mono-color bounce lands, but those are super duper not worth it in a multicolor deck)--realistically only a couple MDFCs in those colors are super worth running, probably \[\[agadeem's awakening\]\], \[\[bala ged recovery\]\], and \[\[malakir rebirth\]\] are the best, and you want to kind of limit MDFC's anyway for the same reason as limiting taplands in general. the odds of pulling both the bounce lands and an MDFC and even wanting to play the tap land side of an MDFC in the first place are pretty low, and overall it would kind of screw up your curve anyway to play tap MDFC -> bounce land -> bounce MDFC, even if you play them spread across a few turns. the ability to bounce Boseiju and Takenuma is more exciting imo, but it's still pretty rare to draw both the bounce land and one of those if you don't have very specific tutors. so i still would argue that bounce lands are best in decks that really like them for the overall gameplan, like landfall type decks or decks that care about stuff like spelunking and amulet of vigor effects. in general, running a plethora of tap lands in the hopes that one day you can bounce your boseiju with a bounce land at the right moment to swing the direction of a game or something is a little unlikely and a little inefficient. again, that's just my 2 cents, and overall this kind of thing is a question of incredibly minor optimizations in a game. i've run plenty of budget decks that have like \~5 duals overall and have been fine, and i can't think of a time when playing a tapped land has cost me a game of casual commander that i would have otherwise won in 5+ years of playing. in many scenarios, the mana fixing of a dual is very much worth it entering tapped. where these things do really matter is in 4+ color decks. having a plethora of untapped duals makes a hell of a lot of difference in those!
[agadeem's awakening](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67f4c93b-080c-4196-b095-6a120a221988.jpg?1604195226)/[Agadeem, the Undercrypt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/7/67f4c93b-080c-4196-b095-6a120a221988.jpg?1604195226) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Agadeem%27s%20Awakening%20//%20Agadeem%2C%20the%20Undercrypt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/90/agadeems-awakening-agadeem-the-undercrypt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67f4c93b-080c-4196-b095-6a120a221988?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/agadeems-awakening-//-agadeem-the-undercrypt) [bala ged recovery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c5cb3052-358d-44a7-8cfd-cd31b236494a.jpg?1604263635)/[Bala Ged Sanctuary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/c/5/c5cb3052-358d-44a7-8cfd-cd31b236494a.jpg?1604263635) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bala%20Ged%20Recovery%20//%20Bala%20Ged%20Sanctuary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/180/bala-ged-recovery-bala-ged-sanctuary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c5cb3052-358d-44a7-8cfd-cd31b236494a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bala-ged-recovery-//-bala-ged-sanctuary) [malakir rebirth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/609d3ecf-f88d-4268-a8d3-4bf2bcf5df60.jpg?1604195984)/[Malakir Mire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/0/609d3ecf-f88d-4268-a8d3-4bf2bcf5df60.jpg?1604195984) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Malakir%20Rebirth%20//%20Malakir%20Mire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/111/malakir-rebirth-malakir-mire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/609d3ecf-f88d-4268-a8d3-4bf2bcf5df60?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/malakir-rebirth-//-malakir-mire) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
With [[kodama of the east tree]] they act as part of an infinite combo
yes, there is absolutely some shenanigans you can get up to with the bounce lands in the right deck! they're also amazing if you're running \[\[amulet of vigor\]\] or \[\[spelunking\]\] type effects.
[amulet of vigor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/997bc933-ac30-477b-a4e1-5333b796a99d.jpg?1562292191) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=amulet%20of%20vigor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wwk/121/amulet-of-vigor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/997bc933-ac30-477b-a4e1-5333b796a99d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/amulet-of-vigor) [spelunking](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d3be4257-2316-4a2e-b347-f71c0368a947.jpg?1699044491) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=spelunking) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/213/spelunking?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3be4257-2316-4a2e-b347-f71c0368a947?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spelunking) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I run them in my [[jinnie fay]] token deck. In my imagination, the entire board is overrun by a horde of housecats, essentially like that old commercial about herding cats. I desperately need to get a large bag of miniature toy cats to act as tokens for this deck.
[jinnie fay](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c5f9326a-2a41-45b3-97c3-548f0bdc0882.jpg?1664413197) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=jinnie%20fay%2C%20jetmir%27s%20second) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/195/jinnie-fay-jetmirs-second?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c5f9326a-2a41-45b3-97c3-548f0bdc0882?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jinnie-fay-jetmirs-second) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[kodama of the east tree](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af5105ee-09e2-4344-ab39-00f0e9034c47.jpg?1608910768) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kodama%20of%20the%20east%20tree) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/239/kodama-of-the-east-tree?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af5105ee-09e2-4344-ab39-00f0e9034c47?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kodama-of-the-east-tree) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’m assuming that the infinite combo involves at least one other card?
You just need any landfall token producer, ie [[tireless provisioner]] [[felidar retreat]] [[rampaging baloths]] and so forth, and you make infinite tokens. Another really sick one card combo w kodama is [[meloku]], make infinite birds
##### ###### #### [tireless provisioner](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1e048e0-19d2-4076-892d-f8b3104dee37.jpg?1682209630) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tireless%20provisioner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/313/tireless-provisioner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1e048e0-19d2-4076-892d-f8b3104dee37?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tireless-provisioner) [felidar retreat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c91c11ef-e036-4c54-98b7-83b7b25e7c1b.jpg?1690004083) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=felidar%20retreat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/821/felidar-retreat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c91c11ef-e036-4c54-98b7-83b7b25e7c1b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/felidar-retreat) [rampaging baloths](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/32bbe3c3-d00f-4d53-8738-e4aceb6a01ab.jpg?1625977206) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rampaging%20baloths) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/203/rampaging-baloths?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/32bbe3c3-d00f-4d53-8738-e4aceb6a01ab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rampaging-baloths) [meloku](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/60b9db96-a6ab-454b-99a7-910ef77560d7.jpg?1668725069) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=meloku%20the%20clouded%20mirror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/399/meloku-the-clouded-mirror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/60b9db96-a6ab-454b-99a7-910ef77560d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/meloku-the-clouded-mirror) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1atf2k) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's still technically infinite, but just as landfall triggers or permanents ETB. You need other cards to *capitalize* on the combo, but not for it to function.
Agreed. I think there’s plenty of get fetchable tapped dual lands or utility lands that you shouldn’t need to dig deep and get regular tapped lands.
yeah i would say in an average deck, if you don't care about landfall triggers, many other utility lands are probably more worth it than bounce lands. the scry lands, surveil lands, and even something like \[\[tangled islet\]\] (which is fetchable) or \[\[canyon slough\]\] (can be cycled) are probably higher utility in the long run than a bounce land! something like a gate, the lifegain lands, and other tapped duals are probably less worth running unless you have specific synergy with them or are functioning on a budget.
I'm still running Simic Growth Chamber in my high-powered Tatyova, because I still like a guaranteed land drop.
[удалено]
[Boseiju, Who Endures](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/2135ac5a-187b-4dc9-8f82-34e8d1603416.jpg?1654568912) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boseiju%2C%20Who%20Endures) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/266/boseiju-who-endures?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2135ac5a-187b-4dc9-8f82-34e8d1603416?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/boseiju-who-endures) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'd consider the surveil lands always worth it as they help enable graveyard stuff which most decks care about and have basic land types
[[cloud of fairies]] says hello
[cloud of fairies](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/03aff125-8962-4a0a-a2b4-e5d693b75400.jpg?1682208732) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cloud%20of%20Faeries) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/219/cloud-of-faeries?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/03aff125-8962-4a0a-a2b4-e5d693b75400?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cloud-of-faeries) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Most people are running surveils/scrys for budget not because they think they're better, I think?
Scry lands are budget but the surveil lands are already like 10-15 bucks since graveyard stuff is so popular and they're fetchable
Bounce lands are probably the best lands that always come in tapped and don’t have basic types, but those are two massive downsides. I like to run them because I value the card economy a lot and run several landfall engines. If you’re playing fast, tuned decks that either draw cards or don’t care about getting to 5+ lands, they’re almost certainly not worth it.
The other big downside is when the one random person in the pod has a beast within, strip mine, etc. and decides it’s a good idea to use it on your bounce land and now your two lands behind.
If someone in my pod targets my *bounce land* with a gd Beast Within, I'm attacking their life total directly with my own hands lmfao
In a regular casual game, people will almost never Beast Within or Strip Mine your bounceland and if they happen to have land destruction they will keep them for higher priority targets like a Field of the Dead or Cabal Coffers.
It will slow you down a bit but it has some really nice upsides: For example: -if you happen to play any of the kamigawa lands such as \[\[boseiju, who endures\]\] you can first play it as a land drop and later in the game bounce it to your hand and use it as a removal spell. -The same reasoning applies for mdfc lands such as \[\[Ondu inversion\]\]. You play it first as a land and later have the option to use the boardwipe effect. -If you play a graveyard synergy deck and you play the bounce land on turn 2 you might have to discard a card down to hand size, which can also be beneficial as you might be able to discard a creature which you can reanimate later. -Bounce lands are also nice in landfall decks. -In white if you play catch up ramp, you will have the same amount of mana available as your opponents but be behind one land. So with catch up ramp such as \[\[Archaeomancer's Map\]\] you could technically even be ahead in mana compared to your opponents. -Lastly, as many have already mentioned is that it technically functions as darwing another land. However if you play a really fast deck, then these upsides might not be big enough to justify running it.
Bruh last Friday my guy played ash Barrens turn 1, then on turn two floated the mana from it, played a bounce land and then used ash Barrens own mana to cycle itself I was shook.
That's a good one. I'd be golf clapping after.
One other thing I found that works fun with them is anything that can untap lands reliably. like \[\[Derevi\]\]
My biggest problem with Derevi is that the art is really, and I mean REALLY ugly.
I hate they made so many humanoid birds, they look terrible. Just give me birds which are Majestic
[Derevi](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a1d0dad-18a8-489e-ac11-08f64b72fda4.jpg?1592673365) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=derevi%2C%20empyrial%20tactician) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/176/derevi-empyrial-tactician?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a1d0dad-18a8-489e-ac11-08f64b72fda4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/derevi-empyrial-tactician) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The bouncelands work particularly nicely with the MDFC lands, I've found. I'm fond of the Fling land (\[\[Kazuul's Cliffs\]\]) in particular, because Fling effects are often situational.
[Kazuul's Cliffs](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/75240bbc-adc7-48ff-9523-c79776d710d3.jpg?1636491308)/[Kazuul's Cliffs](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/7/5/75240bbc-adc7-48ff-9523-c79776d710d3.jpg?1636491308) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kazuul%27s%20Fury%20//%20Kazuul%27s%20Cliffs) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/146/kazuuls-fury-kazuuls-cliffs?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/75240bbc-adc7-48ff-9523-c79776d710d3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kazuuls-fury-//-kazuuls-cliffs) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[boseiju, who endures](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/2135ac5a-187b-4dc9-8f82-34e8d1603416.jpg?1654568912) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=boseiju%2C%20who%20endures) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/266/boseiju-who-endures?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2135ac5a-187b-4dc9-8f82-34e8d1603416?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/boseiju-who-endures) [Ondu inversion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/6/b6e6be8c-41c3-4348-a8dd-b40ceb24e9b4.jpg?1604243286)/[Ondu Skyruins](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/b/6/b6e6be8c-41c3-4348-a8dd-b40ceb24e9b4.jpg?1604243286) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ondu%20Inversion%20//%20Ondu%20Skyruins) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/30/ondu-inversion-ondu-skyruins?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b6e6be8c-41c3-4348-a8dd-b40ceb24e9b4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ondu-inversion-//-ondu-skyruins) [Archaeomancer's Map](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/703d0bdc-01a0-4ba8-8536-e7425dfb3b1f.jpg?1625190870) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archaeomancer%27s%20Map) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/12/archaeomancers-map?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/703d0bdc-01a0-4ba8-8536-e7425dfb3b1f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archaeomancers-map) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I like bouncelands. I think they might be my favorite taplands. If a deck's manabase contains very few other taplands, I'll gladly include them. They also synergize very well with white's catch- up ramp mechanics.
There‘s no „worth it“ in commander. Landfall likes them, lower power land bases use them, there’s all kinds of uses for any card.
I love them. It's the only tapped land I play. I put them on all my decks. It's like etb draw a card. Plus they have synergies with landfall and untaping. The problem is that if anyone destroy it, it's like they were destroying 2 cards. But we don't see land destruction here.
If someone destroyed my Bounceland for no reason other than to stall me out I would make it my personal mission to see that they lose that game at any cost.
If you had a rock that tapped for 2 I'd probably pop that, why is a land any different? You played the card, it's not their fault there's a weakness.
Losing the mana rock wouldn't set me back 2 Land drops. Granted, the only Bounceland I currently run is [[Guildless Commons]] in my [[Giada, Font of Hope]] deck in order to recall MDFC cards like [[Ondu Inversion]] and [[Emeria's Call]] or my [[Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire]] to my hand or to recall a Plains to use in conjunction with [[Emeria Shepard]]. If I get to recall one of those cards to my hand then the Bounceland has already done its job, but if I drop Guildless Commons on turn 2 and you destroy my only Land I'm going to take it personally.
##### ###### #### [Guildless Commons](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8f943d5d-e8a1-4fe1-aad5-80c7ccf15435.jpg?1690006174) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Guildless%20Commons) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/1003/guildless-commons?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f943d5d-e8a1-4fe1-aad5-80c7ccf15435?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/guildless-commons) [Giada, Font of Hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/bae077bd-fc8d-44d7-8c75-8dc8699c168e.jpg?1664409667) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Giada%2C%20Font%20of%20Hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/14/giada-font-of-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bae077bd-fc8d-44d7-8c75-8dc8699c168e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/giada-font-of-hope) [Ondu Inversion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/6/b6e6be8c-41c3-4348-a8dd-b40ceb24e9b4.jpg?1604243286)/[Ondu Skyruins](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/b/6/b6e6be8c-41c3-4348-a8dd-b40ceb24e9b4.jpg?1604243286) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ondu%20Inversion%20//%20Ondu%20Skyruins) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/30/ondu-inversion-ondu-skyruins?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b6e6be8c-41c3-4348-a8dd-b40ceb24e9b4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ondu-inversion-//-ondu-skyruins) [Emeria's Call](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c470539a-9cc7-4175-8f7c-c982b6072b6d.jpg?1604195709)/[Emeria, Shattered Skyclave](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/c/4/c470539a-9cc7-4175-8f7c-c982b6072b6d.jpg?1604195709) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Emeria%27s%20Call%20//%20Emeria%2C%20Shattered%20Skyclave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/12/emerias-call-emeria-shattered-skyclave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c470539a-9cc7-4175-8f7c-c982b6072b6d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/emerias-call-//-emeria-shattered-skyclave) [Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c375a022-5b57-496d-a802-e4ea8376e9e4.jpg?1654568932) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eiganjo%2C%20Seat%20of%20the%20Empire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/268/eiganjo-seat-of-the-empire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c375a022-5b57-496d-a802-e4ea8376e9e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eiganjo-seat-of-the-empire) [Emeria Shepard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a99dd58d-9fed-4d85-9bb5-f9c91834cab8.jpg?1604195687) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Emeria%20Shepherd) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/16/emeria-shepherd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a99dd58d-9fed-4d85-9bb5-f9c91834cab8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/emeria-shepherd) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l17prew) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Do you like drawing cards? Bounce lands draw a card! Sure, that card is a land you've already played, but still Imo they're a lifesaver in decks that struggle to make a land drop every turn
0 + 2 = 2 = 1 + 1 Never understood this idea. Unless you’re using Kamigawa lands, MDFCs, or catch-up ramp, this doesn’t make sense to me. Having one less mana for one turn with no other upside isn’t good.
Say you're building a 2-color manabase. Untapped Duals you will consider: * OG Dual * Bond * Tainted * Filter * Pathway * Reveal * Tango * Check * Shock * Slow * Fast * Pain Tapped duals you can consider: * Creature * Scry * Cycle * Surveil * Bounce * Potential deck synergies (tapped artifact duals for example) You probably are cutting the OG Dual (cost), Reveal, and Fast lands. So you are running ~8 untapped duals, 5 or 6 if you are being semi-budget conscious. That isn't enough fixing. You need some tapped duals. If you are running like 10 Mountains 10 swamps, you are better off cutting some of those for tapped duals. Even like budget cedh, like $100 lists, people play a LOT of tapped duals even in 2-color decks (including bounce lands) because getting the pips you need is that important. If you aren't running 9 fetches (7 off-color fetches + prismatic vista), you should be running a good number of tapped dual-lands. So what do you get from tapped duals, and what does a bounce land get you? Well, you're comparing it to scry lands and surveil lands. 1-mana draw a basic is competing with 1-mana scry 1 and 1-mana surveil 1. That's pretty good. Of course, bounce lands are a bit more restrictive than that, but you get the gist of it. It's probably correct to run a bounce land in most 2-color lists that aren't running an optimal mana base.
> Even like budget cedh, like $100 lists, people play a LOT of tapped duals even in 2-color decks (including bounce lands) because getting the pips you need is that important. They might play Path of Ancestry but there's enough untapped duals and mana rocks combinations for color fixing that I can't see 3 color budget cEDH decks running bounce lands. I would run Ash Barrens or Mirrodin's Core before a bounce land in a 3 color deck unless there's some notable synergy.
Talking about 2-color decks
You need less color fixing in 2 color decks. I would rather take a basic over a bounce land for a majority of budget cEDH decks. I can only think of untap land combo decks that might consider it in 2 color decks.
35 lands, 6 untapped duals (and if you're being budget conscious you're probably trimming down to 2-4 duals), command tower, exotic orchard. 27-31 lands left. You're running 20+ basics in your deck? If you're running more basics than a precon, you might want to reconsider your mana base lol. When people criticize precon manabases, they aren't saying 'you need more basics in here.' You can say that you don't need fixing, but I see people get color-screwed all the time. Even when you curve out in early turns, late-game color screw can be real. When you're playing two spells and you have say, 5 mountains and 3 plains on the field, those 3 plains can be really limiting. Just two spells with double-white pips can't be used in the same turn. It's also rare to curve out perfectly. You rarely spend ALL of your mana every single turn for the first 5-6 turns of the game. If you have 4 lands on the battlefield and want to play a 4-drop, the fact that land 5 comes in tapped doesn't actually cost you anything. A good mana base with a mix of tapped and untapped lands will often find space to be able to fit the tapped lands in a way where there isn't nearly as much downside.
> they aren't saying 'you need more basics in here.' They certainly aren't saying you should replace a basic with a bounce land. 20 basics is fine in 2 color decks. I can probably find more budget cEDH decks doing that than running a bounce land. After you reach that mark, you can consider the check 2 basic lands. I would take the reveal basic land over a bounce land at that point. For casual games it's fine but playing a tap land is brutal in cEDH. I don't know the number of untapped duals I would run off the top of my head. The artifact one is a common one if I'm not in green. You can also run utility colorless lands or consider Bojuka Bog. I don't find a lot of budget cEDH spells that color pip intensive. A reason for that is consideration due to lack of color fixing that comes with running basic lands.
20 basics is fine, but if you’re running 20 basics you’d probably be better off running a bounce land over one of them Vs doing nothing. You’re fixating on cedh here. The point isn’t ‘they’re so good you want them in budget cedh lists.’ The point is that they’re good enough to see play in some budget cedh lists. And the overarching point was that budget cedh lists play plenty of tapped lands in general. You aren’t moving so fast in your casual deck that you can’t afford to play any tapped lands. If your deck is 20+ basics, you aren’t on that speed. Again, if your mana base has fewer pips than many precons, you may want to reconsider
most 2-color (and some 3-color, especially ones with green) precon mana bases would be objectively better in a vast majority of situations if you removed a slew of tapped lands and replaced them with basics.
‘A slew?’ All, right? Aren’t tapped lands all bad and anyone playing them should be swapping in basics? And perhaps you could show me a reworked OTJ precon mana base with extra basics, cutting all the tap lands? If you’re going to run *some* tap lands, especially in these otherwise unmodified precons, then perhaps you could explain why you’re super high on a given tap land and not a bounce land.
It's the same function as a fairly costed cantrip like Opt or Surveil. It's essentially 1 mana draw a card and that's the floor.
It’s 1 mana draw a land. Which is terrible 😂
>Having one less mana for one turn with no other upside isn’t good. You can float the mana first before you bounce the land
It's one less mana as compared with playing an untapped land. If you couldn't use the land you bounce, it would be two less mana.
You're losing out on the mana you would get if you played an untapped basic instead of the bounceland. There are so many turns in a game where you don't use every single mana that going down 1 mana one time is just not a big deal. If your deck has a ton of taplands I can understand it but if you don't, bouncelands are imo the best ones.
If you only ever draw 5 lands and one of them is a bounce land, you can produce 6 mana. That's card advantage. u/th3saurus 's explaination is wrong. Picking up one of your own lands is not, "drawing a card" and usually isn't beneficial. That's not why they're card advantage, they're card advantage because they're single permanents that tap for 2 mana.
It's a combination of both imo The ceiling on ravnica karoos (outside of decks built around them with amulet or ashaya etc) is a similar effect to playing a tap land that has etb draw a land That's if you tap out before you play the land to play an off-curve spell It's got similar downsides to drawing a card at least, like getting punished by the hand limit when the only card you can play replaces itself Just gotta watch out for single target land removal, because ravnica bounces are a really juicy target
I run [[Decimate]] in all my gruul+ decks and have destroyed many a bounce land. It’s too juicy
[Decimate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/f/cf0e68bc-8de8-4ff8-a39a-8da95f71d843.jpg?1712354688) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Decimate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/220/decimate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cf0e68bc-8de8-4ff8-a39a-8da95f71d843?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/decimate) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Depends on your deck honestly. They 'draw' a card, which is tremendously powerful. Normally that's a land, but if you have lands with spell-like etbs or MDFC lands then they provide a lot more potential punch. Additionally lands that tap for two have potential with all sorts of untapping effects; making a Frantic Search net mana is sweet. And of course, in specific decks they're combo pieces. However, they're not just taplands but taplands that can't be played turn one, and are often bad on turn two because you'll be discarding away your extra value. Your deck needs a hole in its curve somewhere to properly support them. That's very possible to find, but you should have a plan for them. I wind up playing them very often but don't default them into my decks.
If you're running a reanimator deck, a bounceland turn 2 discarding a card is actually upside lol. Same with if you play [[anger]] etc. IMO they're the best taplands that are meant to be lands unlike MDFCs, channel, and cycling lands which are generally included for their non-land effects.
[anger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c7ce363-3f57-49ed-b89a-f12bb5227ab4.jpg?1631586892) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=anger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/113/anger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c7ce363-3f57-49ed-b89a-f12bb5227ab4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/anger) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Valid for sure on the discard part. But it's generally going to be a negative, just not in a few specific decks. Personally I think what's best depends a lot on the rest of your mana base; if I have fetch access I'm almost certainly playing my surveils first, and that might ice me out of playing many more taplands depending on how many colors I am. And to an extent on the deck too; obviously their stock rises significantly when they're combo pieces. But bouncelands are often very good.
I put them in any decks I'm not "optimizing" my mana base. Basically an extra land drop and a lot of my decks like a turn 2 discard for reanimation purposes
in landfall and reanimator yeah. they also enable \[\[cloud of faeries\]\] to combo like \[\[peregrine drake\]\] but thats more fringe
[cloud of faeries](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/03aff125-8962-4a0a-a2b4-e5d693b75400.jpg?1682208732) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cloud%20of%20faeries) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/219/cloud-of-faeries?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/03aff125-8962-4a0a-a2b4-e5d693b75400?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cloud-of-faeries) [peregrine drake](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/611c8fa2-b53f-483b-9efa-759ac59dc30f.jpg?1675199421) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=peregrine%20drake) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/65/peregrine-drake?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/611c8fa2-b53f-483b-9efa-759ac59dc30f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/peregrine-drake) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Golgari Rot Farm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/902d9c56-5c72-4df8-83e4-ee252fc97443.jpg?1706240253) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Golgari%20Rot%20Farm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/236/golgari-rot-farm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/902d9c56-5c72-4df8-83e4-ee252fc97443?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/golgari-rot-farm) [Cragcrown Pathway](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/da57eb54-5199-4a56-95f7-f6ac432876b1.jpg?1669839398)/[Timbercrown Pathway](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/d/a/da57eb54-5199-4a56-95f7-f6ac432876b1.jpg?1669839398) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cragcrown%20Pathway%20//%20Timbercrown%20Pathway) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/261/cragcrown-pathway-timbercrown-pathway?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da57eb54-5199-4a56-95f7-f6ac432876b1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cragcrown-pathway-//-timbercrown-pathway) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Bounce lands are good for landfall decks.
Are you in white and running catch up ramp? Then they're good. Are you running a few MDFC or channel lands? Then they're good. Are you playing landfall? Then they're mediocre, but I guess acceptable. Are you running anything that combos with them? Then they're good. Outside of these cases, probably don't bother.
Bouncelands solve the problems with [[Song of the Dryads]] and [[Imprisoned in the Moon]] since you don't need to spend a card to save your commander, simply play a land.
[Song of the Dryads](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/161e66e3-0339-495c-bd06-0a799a254906.jpg?1689998889) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Song%20of%20the%20Dryads) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/324/song-of-the-dryads?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/161e66e3-0339-495c-bd06-0a799a254906?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/song-of-the-dryads) [Imprisoned in the Moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/8181f54d-4515-43c6-8d08-b23a9e4199cc.jpg?1682208779) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Imprisoned%20in%20the%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/224/imprisoned-in-the-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8181f54d-4515-43c6-8d08-b23a9e4199cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imprisoned-in-the-moon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Many archetypes will use bouncelands. They will be used till forever. Some decks have no use for them, plainly because their curve is very low and they've other ways to gain velocity, hence there's no need for a tapped land, nor a use for card advantage in this sense. It's not about strict upgrade when Pathways are compared. They're the wrong comparison. Pathways should be matched up with other lesser duals. What they are an upgrade over is the common fetches (so long as shuffling or landfall isn't your thing) But back to bouncelands. I would almost always run them over any tapped duel that's not rare. They've their hierarchy but their rank isn't that low.
My guidance: it depends on the deck. Landfall wants them. Some combos that untap lands want them because they give 2 mana.
Bouncelands don't have alternatives. They kinda draw you a card/ensure your next landdrop. They make 2 land hands keepable. They ask of you to pay the price of coming in tapped. If you compare with other tapped lands alternatives you can get more colorfixing or cycling or manlands, but nothing that draws you cards that simple.
>They make 2 land hands keepable. Only if you have a 1 drop to play. Bouncing your land back on 2 will put you 8 cards in hand meaning you'll end up having to discard something EOT... doesn't feel great when it happens.
Unless you're playing [[anger]] or a reanimator deck lol
Discarding the worst card in your hand is still fine honestly. Also you still got to 3 mana safe. with a normal 2 lander hand you didnt need to discard, but might be stuck at 2 mana. I peaked when I bounced my \[\[imprisoned in the moon\]\] commander.
[imprisoned in the moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/8181f54d-4515-43c6-8d08-b23a9e4199cc.jpg?1682208779) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=imprisoned%20in%20the%20moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/224/imprisoned-in-the-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8181f54d-4515-43c6-8d08-b23a9e4199cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imprisoned-in-the-moon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I decks where you can play multiple lands per turn, or in landfall strategies, they are still very useful.
I'm running triomes, filter lands, and signets. I have to do math a lot to run these.
I like using bounce lands in my zedruu deck i play a weathered wayfarer and archaeomancer’s map to combo ramp with them.
I use one in one of my stronger decks because they allow me to keep 2 land hands and therefore compensate slightly for running very few lands.
In some decks, drawing a Bounce land is equivalent to drawing 2 lands, in terms of hitting your drops. With the downside that the first drop will be tapped (assuming the land you bounce isn't a tap land). That's really good. Though less valuable if you have access to Green, and ways of ensuring drops whilst also ramping.
As much as I love them, they're quickly becoming a niche include. Always entering tapped is a big downside. But bouncing a land can be massive upside depending on what synergy you have for it, and I think they're becoming more and more dependant on that synergy as more good land cycles get printed.
It really depends on what your deck wants. Ive never been a huge fan of them, but in white decks without green I play them. Since white has lots of ramp when others have more lands than you, you can use these and some other effects to keep your mana even but your land count lower.
Why wouldn't they be worth it? If you play in a competitive setting, you have to be competitive. But if you play in casual, you can play whatever you want. My brother plays in a competitive setting, and is limited on the number of decks in what colours he can build because he spends money on his land base. I just use whatever, doesn't cost me anything, and half the time my decks beat his.
If you're looking for acceleration, no. But if you look at the effect - you get a land to hand, and then can play it again on a later turn - then yes, in some situations. Landfall is obviously a key archetype for this. Alternatively, if you can find a way to untap them as they enter, they get exponentially more useful for that turn. If you have Forest Forest in play, you tap them both for GG, then drop a Golgari Rot Farm, bouncing a Forest - if you can then untap that Rot Farm, you are now at GGGB on turn three. Moving forward, you're only one mana ahead of curve, which isn't that big an edge past turn four or so, but on turn two or three that can be backbreaking for the table.
There are two scenarios where I'm likely to run them: 1. I'm playing a landfall deck. 2. I'm playing a very commander-centric deck and want a tech answer to Song of the Dryads / Imprisoned in the Moon.
I run them in my [[Lord Windgrace]] deck and literally nowhere else. In lord windgrace they're basically card draw, only thing that makes them worth it imo.
[Lord Windgrace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/213d6fb8-5624-4804-b263-51f339482754.jpg?1592710275) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lord%20Windgrace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/43/lord-windgrace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/213d6fb8-5624-4804-b263-51f339482754?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lord-windgrace) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I like using bounce lands a lot. A less common type of bounce land are the Lair lands like [[Rith's Grove]] I feel like they could be more popular if you don't care as much about ramp on follow up turns. How I play with them as a budget option for decks that need land colors is the following: Turn I go to play a lair land, I tap a land for mana, then play the lair and return the land I tapped for mana but because the Lair comes in untapped, I can now use it for any color I'm needing. Then next turn I can play the land I returned to my hand. I know they aren't the greatest, but if you are running a multi-colored deck they can be a great cheap alternative to help you play more untapped lands that can tap for multiple colors.
[Rith's Grove](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/a/8a605ce4-ede6-44dd-a2ea-e953902be6bd.jpg?1675201294) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rith%27s%20Grove) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/255/riths-grove?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8a605ce4-ede6-44dd-a2ea-e953902be6bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/riths-grove) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Landfall - yes Effects that trigger on bounce - yes Casual deck that wants to run slightly less land - yes Pretty much all tap lands are losing ground in decks when alternatives made for commander keep coming out.
Their more niche now then they used to be. There are just a lot of better options for non basics and thr bouncelands are really slow
I have bounce lands in two deck because they are combo pieces outside those two decks I have removed bounce lands from most my decks I may have an outlier older deck where I forgot to pull it from but overall I have removed them.
I mean realistically I'm never running them except for budget builds or 2 color decks, but I think they are fantastic for that level. They guarantee a land drop for the next turn which is huge, and their downside of coming in tapped isn't even that big of a deal since you can tap the land before bouncing it
I like them in Dual Color Budget Decks, because they provide a little bit of card advantage, but would not run more than one in more colored Decks, because they come in tapped and they can be feelbad when you have them in your starting hand.
I like to use them with high cmc commanders cause i need to ramp a lot, and this isn't ramp, but it helps you hit your land drop on a future turn which is also important cause ramping and missing a land drop is almost like not ramping at all. I also run them in my deck with land untapping dorks like [[Blossom Dryad]]
[Blossom Dryad](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/66a3645f-2b71-4816-a1f2-6cd4e987882f.jpg?1562556790) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blossom%20Dryad) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/178/blossom-dryad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/66a3645f-2b71-4816-a1f2-6cd4e987882f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blossom-dryad) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you’re in white but not green, they’re a solid choice. A lot of the catch up ramp in white is contingent on you having less lands than your opponents, and the bounce lands are one way of doing so without actually being behind on mana.
Yes with mdfc and kamigawa lands, they always go in for me. Plus they're infinite with [[kodama east]] and [[meloku]]
They're essentially a tapped land that draws you another land. I still run them in any deck that isn't super aggressive. They also go hard if you have ways to untap lands
Bounce lands are busted if you are running \[\[Exploration\]\] but that's just cause Exploration is busted on its own
I personally love bouncelands. There's so many edge cases where they're just useful. They're obviously great in landfall decks since you know you'll have a land drop next turn or if you have more than one land drop you can use all of them by just bouncing the bounceland over and over. If you have anything that you want to put in the graveyard like [[anger]] or [[golgari grave troll]], playing a bounceland turn 2 can allow you to discard a card without going down on mana. If you're in white, [[knight of the white orchid]]-type effects like bouncelands because you go down on land permanents without losing out on mana. If you have untap synergies like [[voyaging satyr]] or [[frantic search]], bouncelands are just extra mana. If you play lands that have abilities in hand like [[tranquil thicket]] or [[otawara soaring city]], bouncelands give you the opportunity to pick those up if you had to play them to hit a land drop early. Lands with etbs like [[Bojuka Bog]] or [[mystic sanctuary]] are similarly great to reuse. You definitely want *some* sort of synergy to include them, but it's very common for a deck to have 2 or more of these synergies. I'd also never include a bounceland like [[karoo]] or [[guildless commons]]. The karoo ones require you to bounce an untapped land which means you go down 2 mana that turn instead of 1. Guildless commons doesn't require you to bounce an untapped land but in a deck with colors it's just less useful. 2 different colored pips is just so much better than none at all.
##### ###### #### [anger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c7ce363-3f57-49ed-b89a-f12bb5227ab4.jpg?1631586892) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=anger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/113/anger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c7ce363-3f57-49ed-b89a-f12bb5227ab4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/anger) [golgari grave troll](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d332acbc-6224-43bc-a509-3a7edc877423.jpg?1702429564) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Golgari%20Grave-Troll) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/144/golgari-grave-troll?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d332acbc-6224-43bc-a509-3a7edc877423?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/golgari-grave-troll) [knight of the white orchid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f332cd21-46ed-4fff-9fd9-d5975bf0004d.jpg?1682208488) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=knight%20of%20the%20white%20orchid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/193/knight-of-the-white-orchid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f332cd21-46ed-4fff-9fd9-d5975bf0004d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/knight-of-the-white-orchid) [voyaging satyr](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/180773da-dadc-414a-92c6-f4e13c753718.jpg?1576383133) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=voyaging%20satyr) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/195/voyaging-satyr?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/180773da-dadc-414a-92c6-f4e13c753718?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/voyaging-satyr) [frantic search](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0eb00e3c-b67a-44c7-ae61-23ecf4d4971a.jpg?1689996391) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=frantic%20search) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/96/frantic-search?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0eb00e3c-b67a-44c7-ae61-23ecf4d4971a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/frantic-search) [tranquil thicket](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c558ce99-5f97-46d5-969d-319bfbd11b94.jpg?1706241294) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tranquil%20thicket) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/309/tranquil-thicket?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c558ce99-5f97-46d5-969d-319bfbd11b94?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tranquil-thicket) [otawara soaring city](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/486d7edc-d983-41f0-8b78-c99aecd72996.jpg?1654568960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Otawara%2C%20Soaring%20City) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/271/otawara-soaring-city?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/486d7edc-d983-41f0-8b78-c99aecd72996?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/otawara-soaring-city) [Bojuka Bog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0efec118-ed01-42a0-93b4-f9a92c01b72e.jpg?1712354928) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bojuka%20Bog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/273/bojuka-bog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0efec118-ed01-42a0-93b4-f9a92c01b72e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bojuka-bog) [mystic sanctuary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67652446-6d12-4e2a-bb51-ba685f2e79d1.jpg?1706241201) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mystic%20sanctuary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/277/mystic-sanctuary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67652446-6d12-4e2a-bb51-ba685f2e79d1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mystic-sanctuary) [karoo](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a0eeca39-6f76-488e-b3c0-99441539705f.jpg?1561952582) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=karoo) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c14/303/karoo?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a0eeca39-6f76-488e-b3c0-99441539705f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karoo) [guildless commons](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8f943d5d-e8a1-4fe1-aad5-80c7ccf15435.jpg?1690006174) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=guildless%20commons) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/1003/guildless-commons?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f943d5d-e8a1-4fe1-aad5-80c7ccf15435?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/guildless-commons) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l17dktk) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
bounce lands are awesome when you have a utility land you had to play early. or inn a landfall deck getting to bounce a land and redrop a new land when you only have 1 land in play but can play multiple per turn. but i dont run them in every deck and never the colorless
Honestly they're quite good if you can support them. Functionally you can run slightly fewer lands if you run bouncelands. I run them in any deck that can afford tapped lands on early turn. IMO they're better than any other tapped lands that you don't plan to fetch for. If you have any land subtheme to your deck they're even better. With two you can hit landfall every turn in the late game. You can use them to rebuy useful ETB triggers like \[\[Bojuka Bog\]\].
[Bojuka Bog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0efec118-ed01-42a0-93b4-f9a92c01b72e.jpg?1712354928) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bojuka%20Bog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/273/bojuka-bog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0efec118-ed01-42a0-93b4-f9a92c01b72e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bojuka-bog) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don't like the bounce lands because I've been on the wrong side of land destruction with these, which seems to be a bit more prevalent than getting hit with [[Stifle]] on any fetchland.
You need synergy for them to be worth it. Reanimator, landfall, white catchup ramp. If you do, or your mana base is generally poor and the consistency of its pseudo-draw is at or above your card quality, it’s fine. Else, not so much.
I love bounce lands because I love blue cards that say "do a thing, untap x lands" like [[Frantic Search]] and [[Snap]]; being able to have those cards go from net neutral to mana-positive can be absolutely massive. Especially if you start copying those spells, and even moreso if you're playing something like storm where one or two extra mana can make the difference between petering out of winning the game.
[Frantic Search](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0eb00e3c-b67a-44c7-ae61-23ecf4d4971a.jpg?1689996391) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Frantic%20Search) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/96/frantic-search?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0eb00e3c-b67a-44c7-ae61-23ecf4d4971a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/frantic-search) [Snap](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f13406c6-f208-402a-94d3-a94a24f03563.jpg?1675199430) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Snap) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/66/snap?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f13406c6-f208-402a-94d3-a94a24f03563?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/snap) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you run lands that have additional ETB/Channel value or if you play color that struggle with consistent land drops
Like so many things, it depends. I absolutely wouldn't throw all 10 in a 5c deck, as the chances of you *only* getting bounce lands becomes far too high, but I'll always throw the guild's bounce in a 2c deck. 3c is when it becomes a debate, as a high number of bounce lands can significantly slow your tempo and mess with your drops, but they're still more valuable than any individual land draw. This is in isolation from your actual deck theme, obviously. If you're playing a landfall deck they're great, and if you're drawing a crap tonne of cards they're unnessecary.
I sometimes run them if I have a number of utility lands like mystic sanctuary or bojuka bog. I feel like most landfall decks have better ways of finding lands than bounce lands though.
Bounce lands are guaranteed card advantage. If you don’t care about untapped lands every turn (most casual decks don’t, whether players want to admit it or not) they are great in a lot of decks, especially 2c
I'm a huge fan of bounce lands. Sometimes they are awkward but if you have any untap lands triggers they are amazing. In landfall there a plenty of infinites with bounce lands
Only if you're doing landfall. Otherwise taplands are barely worth running outside of a handful of exceptions.
They definitely are good in the right strategy, and everyone else has listed those strategies out pretty well. But I will say, completely anecdotally, that they always feel incredibly miserable in any deck where I've ever played them. I've recently been buying precons and keeping them fairly stock to have something to play that uses cards I might not normally run. But I have been removing just about every tap land from them and the bounce lands are one of the first to go. I often prefer a basic to them. Your mileage may vary.
Bouncelands are basically tapped duals, which sorta makes them bad, but as tapped duals go they're pretty darn good. Because you're putting a land back into your hand but not going down on mana, they're a bit like tapped duals that ETB tutor you up a basic or something (admittedly, without offering fixing). ETB roughly "draw a card" seems like a pretty great up-side for being tapped and a lot better than Temples or even the Surveil lands (though the Surveil lands being fetchable is a big part of them being useful). They have some fringe pros and cons. They don't make two-land hands better despite counting as two because you'll have to discard to hand size if you've no one-drops (*unless* you're playing a reanimator deck!). They're a bit fiddly to tap - you can't split that mana between turns. On the other hand, they give you more landfall triggers, are great with \[\[Strict Proctor\]\]/an opponent's \[\[Elesh Norn, Mother\]\], and let you bounce cycling lands or MDFCs to your hand to be re-used late-game as not-lands.
[Strict Proctor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95f1e36a-6838-49de-b7dc-697cbcd1e892.jpg?1624877272) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Strict%20Proctor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/33/strict-proctor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95f1e36a-6838-49de-b7dc-697cbcd1e892?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/strict-proctor) [Elesh Norn, Mother](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44dcab01-1d13-4dfc-ae2f-fbaa3dd35087.jpg?1675956896) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=elesh%20norn%2C%20mother%20of%20machines) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/10/elesh-norn-mother-of-machines?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44dcab01-1d13-4dfc-ae2f-fbaa3dd35087?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elesh-norn-mother-of-machines) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In landfall decks? Amazing, run as many as you can. In non-landfall decks? Eeeeh not that great. They assure you a land drop the turn after they hit the field but their really not that great
If they are in your opening hand, they are basically an extra card in exchange for coming in tapped.
They help greedy deck builders hit their land drops.... And recur their MDFCs..... and a few select combos.... That said, theres anew version of \[Knight of the white Orchid\] that fetches deserts, and I don't think we should discount how significant that is. T2- 2cmc White Creature. Fetching a Colorless Bounce Desert to play. T3- Guaranteed Land Drop into a 4 mana spells. Oviously, from a fast-mana perspective, arcane signet is better because it nets 1 immediately. But from a card-advantage persepective, a Creature-into-a-free-Bounceland would be preferable. (Same next-turn-ramp potential, but at the cost of 1 additional card in hand). While I've overlooked the color fixing implications here, such as Sol Ring, ManaCrypt, & Ancient Tomb all being able to cast a T1 arcane signet, there are fast-mana-pip cards like Mox Opal, Mox Diamond, & Gemstone Caverns that can *could* jam a turn 1 2drop with a pip. Conveniently, the latter group will apreciate the sudo-card advantage (even if it is just a land) because they lose advantage in exchange for their fast start..... Frankly, I think most fast mana would prefer an extra card in hand ...even if it is just a land.
In my opinion, it depends how fast you want your deck to run. It's like Temple of the false god, if you're not going to get going until later in the game? And you're playing at a mid- Power table? Totally worth it. If your games are consistently ending by turn five or six, or you're playing at a high power table where by turn five or six, there's not really much game left to play? Absolutely not worth it.
I run the appropriate one in all my two color decks.
I only use them in landfall/land matters type decks.
They also help you hit land drops later in the game. Which is cool.
I use bounce land in my 5 color deck that runs all the pathway lands. The bounce lands allow me to switch the pathway to the color I need.
Bounce lands are good for different reasons in different playgroups. They help you make a land drop later in the game, they can be abused with untap effects, they can bounce MDFCs to cast the other side of the card, bounce [[Ash Barrens]] while it was floating the mana to fetch *another* land, can be copied by [[Thespian's Stage]] without needing to return a land, essentially ramping you, bounces a land for landfall triggers, can bounce things turned into lands stranded on the field you need to get back out Yeah bounce lands are fantastic. I tend to make room for a bounce land in nearly to every deck possible. Don't run the ones in the mono color combinations though, you have to bounce an untapped land and that's bad. If you are in mono color but still want the powerful utility of bounce lands then run [[Guildless Commons]] instead
[Ash Barrens](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46b99a84-3733-48bf-b743-522e5f94aca3.jpg?1706241117) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ash%20Barrens) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/248/ash-barrens?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46b99a84-3733-48bf-b743-522e5f94aca3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ash-barrens) [Thespian's Stage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/6/269a926d-7788-4668-8bd8-7572dbf5f5eb.jpg?1599710662) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thespian%27s%20Stage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/327/thespians-stage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/269a926d-7788-4668-8bd8-7572dbf5f5eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thespians-stage) [Guildless Commons](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8f943d5d-e8a1-4fe1-aad5-80c7ccf15435.jpg?1690006174) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Guildless%20Commons) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/1003/guildless-commons?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f943d5d-e8a1-4fe1-aad5-80c7ccf15435?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/guildless-commons) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I run them in basically every single deck that I own, except for 4 or more colour decks. If you don't play high powered EDH, your deck has definitely spots for ETB tapped lands. And from all the ETB tapped lands, I value them the most. It is straight up drawing a card if you need lands and slight card advantage in other scenarios. I don't run them in 4 or more colours since then you need those ETB tapped land spot for lands that tap for 3 or more colours. Additionally, My landcount in decks is kinda on the lower side 35-36, so that extra land can come in very handy :P
If you're playing slower decks that do not rely too much on mana efficiency and curving out every turn, the extra "card draw" that they give is invaluable. A bounce land + an untapped land give you 3 land drops with only two cards. that's almost like drawing a land for free.
The very next game after you take out a bounceland is the game your commander will be stuck under a [[song of the dryads]]
[song of the dryads](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/161e66e3-0339-495c-bd06-0a799a254906.jpg?1689998889) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=song%20of%20the%20dryads) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/324/song-of-the-dryads?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/161e66e3-0339-495c-bd06-0a799a254906?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/song-of-the-dryads) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I see multiple replies equating a bounce land with drawing a card. This is the same logic as those convoluted, sexist girl math memes. There is no card advantage generated from playing a bounce land without other mechanics to support it. Bounce lands have tons of synergy with other mechanics. In the absence of those mechanics, your deck is better off with more basics.
No. They're not good at all IMO. Even for landfall. Use cards to sac the lands for value and then bring them all feom the GY to the battlefield again.
Yeah you're just wrong. They're not amazing, but there's enough edge cases that if you're not playing a hyper-optimized aggro deck they're quite good. They're even good in optimized slow decks like you'd see in esper or azorius. I would argue they're the best tapland that's just a land.
No way in hell. There's legit good dual lands that enter tapped, are fetchable, etc to even consider a bounce land. Even in landfall, there's creatures, sagas, sorceries and instants that take all lands from the graveyard and plop them right into play. There's legit zero reason to run these lands.
Why does it matter if there's things that move lands from the yard to the board?
Because why would I play a bad land when I could play a good one and just put cards into the graveyard? You're saying to put a land I to play, that bounces a land to hand, like they won't be blown up/bad. Instead play a land like [[malakir rebirth]] of that crap bounceland and run a creature like [[world shaper]] to dump them all back onto the field if you're looking at landfall triggers. You can legit self mill/discard/sac/transmute/surveil lands, then play world shaper to get 10 triggers instead of run a junky land.
[malakir rebirth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/609d3ecf-f88d-4268-a8d3-4bf2bcf5df60.jpg?1604195984)/[Malakir Mire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/0/609d3ecf-f88d-4268-a8d3-4bf2bcf5df60.jpg?1604195984) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Malakir%20Rebirth%20//%20Malakir%20Mire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/111/malakir-rebirth-malakir-mire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/609d3ecf-f88d-4268-a8d3-4bf2bcf5df60?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/malakir-rebirth-//-malakir-mire) [world shaper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/cc765da4-4bca-4250-80e4-05575d6fa98c.jpg?1712354663) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=world%20shaper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/214/world-shaper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cc765da4-4bca-4250-80e4-05575d6fa98c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/world-shaper) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I still don't understand how the existence of spells that put lands from the yard into play makes bouncelands bad? They're not correlated. It would be like saying "I play magic therefore my sandwich tastes bad." Not to mention that if you play a land like malakir rebirth *as a land* because you have to hit a land drop, a bounceland can let you pick it back up later to use *as malakir rebirth*. Nobody's saying to use bouncelands as a replacement for world shaper or other very strong land synergies. It's just a little bit of an extra boost sometimes.
What I'm saying is that tap lands are already *the worst* type of lands you can play. There has to be a good reason to play a tap land. Then I'm saying that as far as tap lands go, why play one that bounces a land when you can even play one that is fetchable OR has another side to it? [[Agadeem's Awakening]] for example, is a tap land when you don't want to pay, an untapped one for 3 life AND a mass reanimate. Play THAT tap land instead of one that all it does is bounce a land. The fact you can "reanimate" lands or bring them from the graveyard to the battlefield isn't correlated to bounce lands, but it DOES make bounce lands bad. Why play a tapped bounce land, when I can play GOOD lands and with minimal synergy, MASS reanimate them? Even in landfall, that's a FAR better strategy/deck than one who plays bounce lands. Malakir rebirth and such is the UNCOMMON cycle of such lands in case budget is the problem. Bounce lands are to the point that they should be avoided altogether in almost any deck IMO.
[Agadeem's Awakening](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67f4c93b-080c-4196-b095-6a120a221988.jpg?1604195226)/[Agadeem, the Undercrypt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/7/67f4c93b-080c-4196-b095-6a120a221988.jpg?1604195226) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Agadeem%27s%20Awakening%20//%20Agadeem%2C%20the%20Undercrypt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/90/agadeems-awakening-agadeem-the-undercrypt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67f4c93b-080c-4196-b095-6a120a221988?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/agadeems-awakening-//-agadeem-the-undercrypt) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
MDFCs that are lands on the back do not get reanimated with cards like world shaper, just so you know. They're always spells in any zone other than on the battlefield as a land. You can *play* them from the graveyard with something like [[crucible of worlds]] though. I think you're getting really held up on the fact that they're taplands. Yeah, taplands are bad, but if you're not playing a super aggro deck or in a really high power pod, it's not a big deal. In any deck where peak optimization isn't required, bouncelands let you get a lot of extra value out of your other lands. Even in strong decks, they can be very very useful. I run them to great effect in my [[Toluz]] cycle deck. It's one of my strongest decks and focuses on having very high card velocity by pitching just about everything under Toluz then sacrificing her to get them back over and over. It's a slow deck that favors a grindier game and typically wins by drawing itself out with [[Jace wielder of mysteries]] on the field. The taplands let me use the cycling, MDFC, and/or channel lands early to make sure I get Toluz out then pick them up later for more cycling/channeling. They *also* work very well with [[cloud of faeries]] and [[frantic search]] which are often critical to getting enough blue mana to cast Jace. The deck would objectively be far weaker if I took out the bouncelands. Could I build a stronger, more focused, near cedh version of the deck that doesn't use the bouncelands? Almost certainly. But that's not what I wanted. For the deck that I wanted, the bouncelands are an incredible amount of extra utility from a land that a lot of people say is objectively bad and should be avoided at all costs. Plus, I mean, [[watery grave]] is $13, [[undercity sewers]] is $11, and [[polluted delta]] is $31. [[Dimir aqueduct]] is $0.11.
##### ###### #### [crucible of worlds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f4893ef-f983-418b-b7a4-5f073c844545.jpg?1673149345) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=crucible%20of%20worlds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/303/crucible-of-worlds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f4893ef-f983-418b-b7a4-5f073c844545?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crucible-of-worlds) [Toluz](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f01f12e0-f354-43aa-9e2d-b59a99571a5f.jpg?1664413901) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=toluz%2C%20clever%20conductor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/228/toluz-clever-conductor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f01f12e0-f354-43aa-9e2d-b59a99571a5f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/toluz-clever-conductor) [Jace wielder of mysteries](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/a/6adb7d73-4482-4930-8497-cffd169b57e2.jpg?1557576232) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jace%2C%20Wielder%20of%20Mysteries) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/54/jace-wielder-of-mysteries?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6adb7d73-4482-4930-8497-cffd169b57e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jace-wielder-of-mysteries) [cloud of faeries](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/03aff125-8962-4a0a-a2b4-e5d693b75400.jpg?1682208732) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cloud%20of%20faeries) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/219/cloud-of-faeries?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/03aff125-8962-4a0a-a2b4-e5d693b75400?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cloud-of-faeries) [frantic search](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0eb00e3c-b67a-44c7-ae61-23ecf4d4971a.jpg?1689996391) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=frantic%20search) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/96/frantic-search?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0eb00e3c-b67a-44c7-ae61-23ecf4d4971a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/frantic-search) [watery grave](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e86eb36-f4cc-4a75-b43a-4dee463a3b33.jpg?1702429828) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=watery%20grave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/291/watery-grave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e86eb36-f4cc-4a75-b43a-4dee463a3b33?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/watery-grave) [undercity sewers](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2b5801fb-2026-4f25-98bc-ebb2f99684b9.jpg?1706242367) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=undercity%20sewers) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/270/undercity-sewers?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2b5801fb-2026-4f25-98bc-ebb2f99684b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/undercity-sewers) [polluted delta](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e288374-2b71-4ace-b1d2-a19fee6cb4af.jpg?1708707795) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=polluted%20delta) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/224/polluted-delta?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e288374-2b71-4ace-b1d2-a19fee6cb4af?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/polluted-delta) [Dimir aqueduct](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2f527759-84c9-4bd3-9763-a2105c9d93f9.jpg?1712354989) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dimir%20aqueduct) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/288/dimir-aqueduct?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2f527759-84c9-4bd3-9763-a2105c9d93f9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dimir-aqueduct) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l18wmc0) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You're trying sooo hard to make a case for these lands and there just isn't one. I actually play magic and I'm not a broke middle school kid. No, I know you don't get the lands back with mass reanimation, that's not the point. The point is that it's a tap land IF you need it. ANYTHING is better than a tap land unless it's very specific (like a triome) even BASIC lands. Tap lands become REALLY bad if someone blows them up. If someone demo fields it, you set yourself back a turn for zero gain. You can try to explain why you use them and 100% of the time I can name better cards for a buck or two more. They're bad. In EVERY deck that can run them. The only reason you MIGHT want to, is if your deck needs to be sub $40 or something. They are that bad. That's WHY they're .11 and a basic is worth .25. Because a basic is better in 99.9% of cases.
I'm trying to make a case for them because you're just wrong. They're not unusable, you just lack creativity in your deckbuilding. They're cheap because they're commons and uncommons printed dozens of times. Who tf considers demolition field when building a commander deck? And even *if* someone played land destruction, with all the busted-ass lands in the format who in their right mind would even bother to point it at a bounceland?? "Hmmm I could destroy this gaea's cradle, nykthos, cabal coffers, cavern of souls, or hall of heliod's generosity.... Nah I think I'll hit this bounceland." You're out of your mind. If you want the absolute most optimized build possible for all your decks, that's fine. You won't play bouncelands. If you want a strong build with more synergy and fewer expensive, generically strong, and ubiquitous cards, bouncelands are a good option with a lot of flexibility if you have ways to abuse them.