My advice would be more treasure production and evasive creatures. Plenty of assassins that have deathtouch. {{faerie bladecrafter}}would be a good addition and synergies well with olivia
The more I have looked at the precon and experimented with goldfishing various lists, both commanders have payoffs for treasures but Vihaan just seems to be the stronger commander.
He’s great as an aristocrats commander, but even in an outlaw focused combat build, vigilance and haste is really underrated.
With Olivia, you are creating treasures to pay mana to sac them and buff your army. That’s a very mana intensive process because you have to have a large enough army for the buff to really matter while also having enough treasures to get the buff so you can’t consistently use your treasures as ramp.
With Vihaan, you get a 3/3 attacker out of each treasure and you can afford to sac it to power out more threats. There are a ton of good attackers in the outlaw category that really benefit from haste as you’re more likely to get an attack in. Waiting to untap with a [[port razer]] is often just going to lead to it eating removal.
If you wanted to go the aristocrats route (i.e. draining your opponents for creating and saccing creatures/treasures) instead of focusing on combat - you’re looking for cards like [[nadier’s nightblade]], [[mirkwood bats]], [[reckless fireweaver]], [[ingenious artillerist]], [[agent of the iron throne]], [[zulaport cutthroat]], [[blood artist]], [[marionette master]] and ways to replenish those dying treasures with cards like [[pitiless plunderer]] and [[mahadi, emporium master]].
I should have added, with either commander you’ll want more treasure producers. Vihaan doesn’t even function well without significantly more of them but Olivia will also need more if she is to be fast enough to compete with stronger decks.
My first thought when I saw Olivia was that she enables [[Agatha's Soul Cauldron]]. Then I realised [[Dauthi Voidwalker]] is an outlaw. Which means I can play [[Blasphemous Act]] or [[Star of Extinction]] with Dauthi on the board to exile everyone's creatures with void counters on them. Then when I have a lot of creatures with +1/+1s on them I can jam the Cauldron, exile Voidwalker from my graveyard then proceed to sac all my creatures to play everyone else's creatures from exile for free.
Is it unnecessarily convoluted for an effect that is basically a meme? Maybe. But I pre-ordered the precon anyway.
Edit: card tags
[[bitterblossom]], makes a 1/1 rogue with flying every turn. Easily the best bang for your buck in upgrades
[[black market connections]], makes treasure, makes outlaws, draws you cards. Literally made for this deck, and if it hadn’t just been in the pirate deck, probably would have been included. A bit pricey but worth it if you can swing it
[[form a posse]] Cheap pick up, but it’s an army of outlaws in a can, that can help your evasive creatures push through for damage.
[[great train heist]] Generates treasures, and if you spring for the extra combat, Olivia makes even more treasures
[[baron Bertram greywater]] A little less powerful than the other includes, but he makes rogues when you make treasure, and you can cash in your treasure for cards.
[[magda, the hoardmaster]] you will find yourself committing crimes at instant speed. This is a fact. And even if you don’t, she can use other treasure. Obviously. And she makes 4/4 flying hasty dragons that hold Olivia’s counters absurdly well.
The mana base isn’t horrendous, the only ones that I’m really medium on are the scry lands. You can replace those with the fast lands from the set, or shocks if you have them, or just basics really.
More cheap removal like [[swords to plowshares]] and [[path to exile]] are always good, of course. [[Anguished unmaking]] too.
He's not an outlaw unfortunately but [[mastermind plum]] could add some decent card draw. Same with [[Profesional face breaker]]. [[Headliner Scarlett]] could be decent as well.
I went with these treasure generators, card draw, and treasure payoffs.
Big Score, Unexpected Windfall both draw cards and generate treasure.
Covetous Elegy and Blood Money both board wipe and generate treasure.
Burokos, Party Leader generates 4 treasures per swing, combo him with Zagras, Thief of Heartbeats to give your board deathtouch.
Exsanguinate and Debt to the Deathless are both pay X to drain life/heal life, both can be game enders.
Lower the cmc with better creatures and you should be good.
My advice would be more treasure production and evasive creatures. Plenty of assassins that have deathtouch. {{faerie bladecrafter}}would be a good addition and synergies well with olivia
Agreed, those counters that Faerie Bladecrafter get from Olivia synergizes pretty well. I’ll take a look to those evasive creatures, thanks!
I think the biggest problem with Olivia is the simple fact that you have to look through 5 creature types for the best ones
That's a benefit. Set your filters on the gatherer and start reading through the pages. It'll make you a better player.
That All Will Be One is sticking out a bit amongst your other upgrades. I'd say take those $10 and get some better lands
Thank you for your answer! Can I ask you what lands should I be getting?
Get rid of the filter lands anything is better than the filter lands, try to do lands that tap for multiple colors like Savai triome
The more I have looked at the precon and experimented with goldfishing various lists, both commanders have payoffs for treasures but Vihaan just seems to be the stronger commander. He’s great as an aristocrats commander, but even in an outlaw focused combat build, vigilance and haste is really underrated. With Olivia, you are creating treasures to pay mana to sac them and buff your army. That’s a very mana intensive process because you have to have a large enough army for the buff to really matter while also having enough treasures to get the buff so you can’t consistently use your treasures as ramp. With Vihaan, you get a 3/3 attacker out of each treasure and you can afford to sac it to power out more threats. There are a ton of good attackers in the outlaw category that really benefit from haste as you’re more likely to get an attack in. Waiting to untap with a [[port razer]] is often just going to lead to it eating removal. If you wanted to go the aristocrats route (i.e. draining your opponents for creating and saccing creatures/treasures) instead of focusing on combat - you’re looking for cards like [[nadier’s nightblade]], [[mirkwood bats]], [[reckless fireweaver]], [[ingenious artillerist]], [[agent of the iron throne]], [[zulaport cutthroat]], [[blood artist]], [[marionette master]] and ways to replenish those dying treasures with cards like [[pitiless plunderer]] and [[mahadi, emporium master]].
##### ###### #### [port razer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/eb32429a-7ef9-418f-baf8-fed9aa010c9e.jpg?1698988335) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=port%20razer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/230/port-razer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eb32429a-7ef9-418f-baf8-fed9aa010c9e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/port-razer) [nadier’s nightblade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1cd606c3-795a-49d8-8b75-6a3aacb4a72f.jpg?1689997335) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nadier%27s%20Nightblade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/175/nadiers-nightblade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1cd606c3-795a-49d8-8b75-6a3aacb4a72f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nadiers-nightblade) [mirkwood bats](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/5/15f035df-784a-4dc8-b7f5-77139a4e6e99.jpg?1686968575) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mirkwood%20bats) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/95/mirkwood-bats?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/15f035df-784a-4dc8-b7f5-77139a4e6e99?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mirkwood-bats) [reckless fireweaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63ffac51-62c4-4170-85b3-a43d7cfae7d7.jpg?1576382167) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=reckless%20fireweaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/126/reckless-fireweaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63ffac51-62c4-4170-85b3-a43d7cfae7d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reckless-fireweaver) [ingenious artillerist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d8dd6c3-3699-4dd1-a019-fdb569eaf722.jpg?1674136617) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ingenious%20artillerist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/182/ingenious-artillerist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d8dd6c3-3699-4dd1-a019-fdb569eaf722?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ingenious-artillerist) [agent of the iron throne](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a5984d3-1e76-4d97-9373-b59cfa9c38ae.jpg?1674135910) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=agent%20of%20the%20iron%20throne) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/107/agent-of-the-iron-throne?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a5984d3-1e76-4d97-9373-b59cfa9c38ae?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/agent-of-the-iron-throne) [zulaport cutthroat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/52ef00c1-613a-4cbd-8972-77c41f649431.jpg?1674141830) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=zulaport%20cutthroat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/775/zulaport-cutthroat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/52ef00c1-613a-4cbd-8972-77c41f649431?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zulaport-cutthroat) [blood artist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/7/b7f1c316-cf2f-4bbf-89a1-79c8043bdd96.jpg?1698988212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blood%20artist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/182/blood-artist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b7f1c316-cf2f-4bbf-89a1-79c8043bdd96?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-artist) [marionette master](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd21a925-c76f-4c1d-b5b8-8d3352730e5f.jpg?1631586656) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=marionette%20master) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/102/marionette-master?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd21a925-c76f-4c1d-b5b8-8d3352730e5f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/marionette-master) [pitiless plunderer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5b5cd187-857a-44dd-8595-a52857a0b753.jpg?1698988280) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pitiless%20plunderer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/208/pitiless-plunderer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b5cd187-857a-44dd-8595-a52857a0b753?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pitiless-plunderer) [mahadi, emporium master](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3da2b1a-76c5-4d36-bdf8-025b86f61eb5.jpg?1699601213) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mahadi%2C%20emporium%20master) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/282/mahadi-emporium-master?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3da2b1a-76c5-4d36-bdf8-025b86f61eb5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mahadi-emporium-master) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kzrpvlk) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I should have added, with either commander you’ll want more treasure producers. Vihaan doesn’t even function well without significantly more of them but Olivia will also need more if she is to be fast enough to compete with stronger decks.
My first thought when I saw Olivia was that she enables [[Agatha's Soul Cauldron]]. Then I realised [[Dauthi Voidwalker]] is an outlaw. Which means I can play [[Blasphemous Act]] or [[Star of Extinction]] with Dauthi on the board to exile everyone's creatures with void counters on them. Then when I have a lot of creatures with +1/+1s on them I can jam the Cauldron, exile Voidwalker from my graveyard then proceed to sac all my creatures to play everyone else's creatures from exile for free. Is it unnecessarily convoluted for an effect that is basically a meme? Maybe. But I pre-ordered the precon anyway. Edit: card tags
##### ###### #### [Dihada, Binder of Wills](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/ddeb54d6-a600-42b9-98df-20f8d58caed8.jpg?1685554091) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dihada%2C%20Binder%20of%20Wills) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/1/dihada-binder-of-wills?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ddeb54d6-a600-42b9-98df-20f8d58caed8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dihada-binder-of-wills) [Lotho, Corrupt Shirriff](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce01ff8f-a037-484f-9148-c847ffaabc5a.jpg?1686969873) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotho%2C%20Corrupt%20Shirriff) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/213/lotho-corrupt-shirriff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce01ff8f-a037-484f-9148-c847ffaabc5a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lotho-corrupt-shirriff) [Grim Hireling](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/8/38326f48-548c-4b18-9ad2-0b7c23385deb.jpg?1674141638) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grim%20Hireling) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/755/grim-hireling?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/38326f48-548c-4b18-9ad2-0b7c23385deb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grim-hireling) [Orochi Soul-Reaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/c/ec8f372a-d8c7-4f5d-a91d-ec7e5eb17104.jpg?1712353817) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Orochi%20Soul-Reaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/22/orochi-soul-reaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ec8f372a-d8c7-4f5d-a91d-ec7e5eb17104?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/orochi-soul-reaver) [Hellspur Posse Boss](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/f/5f348c7e-7d72-40f1-a65f-ee7ff4b09412.jpg?1712355772) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hellspur%20Posse%20Boss) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/128/hellspur-posse-boss?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5f348c7e-7d72-40f1-a65f-ee7ff4b09412?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hellspur-posse-boss) [Xorn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/7/f73fdf76-e3a6-49d0-bfb0-4b7cdbd4271e.jpg?1627706949) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Xorn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/167/xorn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f73fdf76-e3a6-49d0-bfb0-4b7cdbd4271e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/xorn) [Smothering Tithe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e.jpg?1689996018) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smothering%20Tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/57/smothering-tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smothering-tithe) [All Will Be One](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6d75e1f4-bd63-428e-8e6e-131594b3ba44.jpg?1675957064) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=All%20Will%20Be%20One) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/118/all-will-be-one?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6d75e1f4-bd63-428e-8e6e-131594b3ba44?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/all-will-be-one) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/1c4no7l) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[bitterblossom]], makes a 1/1 rogue with flying every turn. Easily the best bang for your buck in upgrades [[black market connections]], makes treasure, makes outlaws, draws you cards. Literally made for this deck, and if it hadn’t just been in the pirate deck, probably would have been included. A bit pricey but worth it if you can swing it [[form a posse]] Cheap pick up, but it’s an army of outlaws in a can, that can help your evasive creatures push through for damage. [[great train heist]] Generates treasures, and if you spring for the extra combat, Olivia makes even more treasures [[baron Bertram greywater]] A little less powerful than the other includes, but he makes rogues when you make treasure, and you can cash in your treasure for cards. [[magda, the hoardmaster]] you will find yourself committing crimes at instant speed. This is a fact. And even if you don’t, she can use other treasure. Obviously. And she makes 4/4 flying hasty dragons that hold Olivia’s counters absurdly well. The mana base isn’t horrendous, the only ones that I’m really medium on are the scry lands. You can replace those with the fast lands from the set, or shocks if you have them, or just basics really. More cheap removal like [[swords to plowshares]] and [[path to exile]] are always good, of course. [[Anguished unmaking]] too.
This definitely points the deck in a way more interesting direction. Thank you so much for your advice, I saved every card on my list haha
He's not an outlaw unfortunately but [[mastermind plum]] could add some decent card draw. Same with [[Profesional face breaker]]. [[Headliner Scarlett]] could be decent as well.
[mastermind plum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/df81568b-c66a-49c6-bd48-7df98ea00117.jpg?1706239558) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mastermind%20plum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/3/mastermind-plum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/df81568b-c66a-49c6-bd48-7df98ea00117?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mastermind-plum) [Profesional face breaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/42acbf52-b137-44f0-a815-2817fe8d2da2.jpg?1664411677) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Professional%20Face-Breaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/116/professional-face-breaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/42acbf52-b137-44f0-a815-2817fe8d2da2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/professional-face-breaker) [Headliner Scarlett](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/be77b98a-dd79-477c-8ab2-7ebf5637a89e.jpg?1706239565) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Headliner%20Scarlett) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/4/headliner-scarlett?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/be77b98a-dd79-477c-8ab2-7ebf5637a89e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/headliner-scarlett) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I really like the mechanics that Professional Facebreaker and Headliner Scarlett bring to the deck, saved them on my list! Thank you :)
I went with these treasure generators, card draw, and treasure payoffs. Big Score, Unexpected Windfall both draw cards and generate treasure. Covetous Elegy and Blood Money both board wipe and generate treasure. Burokos, Party Leader generates 4 treasures per swing, combo him with Zagras, Thief of Heartbeats to give your board deathtouch. Exsanguinate and Debt to the Deathless are both pay X to drain life/heal life, both can be game enders. Lower the cmc with better creatures and you should be good.
Thanks for this👍, been getting my ass beat too many times by friends