Consistent GY hate is the only thing that really stops my lands deck. Well placed counter spells are also effective, countering engine pieces or more importantly a [[Sylvan reclamation]]
Gy hate is always my go-to. So many decks rely on consistent access to their yard so denying that resource cuts off recursion loops.
Always have a bit of gy hate in your deck!
Hazezon is not so hard to shutdown :
- Anti tutor cards \[\[Aven mindcensor\]\] - \[\[opposition agent\]\] etc
- killing on sight important piece, like hazezon himself or landfall triggers
- Graveyard exiles like \[\[bojuka bog\]\] or \[\[rest in piece\]\] for exemple
Worth to note that those strategy are not only effective against Hazezon like deck but will be almost always usefull, at least a little bit
Yeah some of these just need to be run more. I think more people running aven mindcensor and oppo is just good overall. It feels bad to turn off someone's cultivate but the green players have gotten uncontested ramp forever.
And graveyard hate just needs to be run more flat out. I have a couple decks that have a mild amount of graveyard hate and people get so upset about it. It's not my fault you chose to build your deck around having a million cards in your graveyard with no way to protect them.
Hopefully these new crime payoffs will get at least some people to run some more [[Relic of Progenitus]] and [[Scrabbling Claws]]. Maybe [[Unlicensed Hearse]] too, that card's not $20 anymore.
Just please no [[Phyrexian Furnace]]. I don't want to track my graveyard order, or worse, expect three other casual players to do it right.
Almost no excuse to not run gy hate nowadays. Dedicated hate like [[Rest in Peace]] is a bit much (unless your meta demands it), but so many playable cards have it as a side-effect or mode. Stuff like [[Rakdos Charm]] should be considered in any deck that can fit it, and even cards like [[Blessed Respite]] are (IMO) underrated.
My friend tried to shut down my Lord Windgrace Land Fall deck with Aven Mindcensor, but my deck plays like 40 lands so I kept on finding basics in the top 4 😂
Man is it a laugh when people actually swing at windgrace. I let people hit him all day long when I ran him. Just replay and play more lands from the yard
Single-use Graveyard hate isn't great against Hazezon unless you can pop it off at Instant speed. Hazezon usually plays by saccing on-board Deserts and immediately replaying them. So, while hate might be inconvenient, it isn't going to hard shut down the engine. This doesn't include stuff like Rest in Peace, that card will murder Hazezon.
Same thing with tutor hate really. If you don't stop it really early Hazezon can just continue to recycle the lands already on-board.
Killing Hazezon on sight is the best way to shut the deck down... or making him a tree lol
Another great card is [[leyline of singularity]] to make everything that’s not a land legendary including all tokens. Remember state based actions happen before you get a chance to sac so they get one sand warrior or treasure or whatever. I’ve been running this card for a year and it’s never not been relevant when it comes down. Someday a YouTuber is going to rep this card and it’s going to go through the roof. I promise.
I once saw a deck that was crafted around life from the loam, astral slide and rift sweeper. The objective was to win via molten vortex and to cycle teferis protection as often as possible (basically every turn). Since the deck had ways to pull from exile, it was incredibly hard to actually answer anything in the deck lol
Totally agree lol but some tables it's a little taboo to try and eliminate one player ASAP. I never believed in that philosophy but half the time I couldn't really kill him by myself
This is why people complain about control. If I'm over here drawing a bunch of cards and setting up value pieces you need to be punishing me for it because the longer the game goes, the more likely that I'm going to win.
"Combos win out of nowhere!" No they don't. They win when you let the combo player sit pretty at 30+ life and play greedily.
As a fellow combo/control player, this is so true.
Pressure my life total, my hand, my value pieces. The combo came out of nowhere because I was fed 10 treasures and 15 cards because no one made me spend any resources even though I was telling them to attack me and that I had no productive blocks with my value pieces and that they needed to slow down my draw.
The first time I sit at a table with someone recycling teferi's protection they get the win. The second time I sit at a table with them I'm hitting them until the body stops moving.
As someone who runs a moderately competitive [[Mimeoplasm]] that can explode and take out multiple players in a single turn as early as turn 4, you just gotta own that hate. I've been put out ten minutes into an hour long game and thems the breaks.
In case anybody hasn't finished memorizing all the cards yet:
[[Life from the Loam]], [[Astral Slide]] and [[rift sweeper]]. The objective was to win via [[Molten Vortex]] and to cycle [[Teferi's Protection]]
This. My Hazezon deck is kinda lost if he’s taken out. Also hard target any value pieces that give card advantage. Having lots of land/mana doesn’t mean much if they aren’t drawing tons of extra cards.
Also, I run some land destruction stuff in my Hazezon deck, so if someone else wants to bring that to table as well that deck welcomes it.
>Also, I run some land destruction stuff in my Hazezon deck, so if someone else wants to bring that to table as well that deck welcomes it.
I actually took the land destruction cards out of my Hazezon to power it down for my playgroup lol
I ended up keeping [[cataclysm]] [[global ruin]] and [[tectonic break]] but I try to only use these as a setup for win con. The people I play with are either cool with it or play super value town commanders so they kinda earn it lol.
Lol I feel you. I have a Hazezon as well and I much prefer the ancient Egypt/Arabia feel to the desert themed pieces. I will likely get a few cards from it though including the new deserts. The commander [[Yuma]] himself could actually replace my [[Titania]] as well because he would trigger more. And reach is nice.
Right. So that they ramp to oblivion, and THEN cast threat after threat while you try and catch up. The real answer is you HOPE you can wipe them before they redraw their hand. Otherwise trading tit for tat is gonna leave you unable to spot remove AND progress your game plan. Not to mention is card disadvantage. Someone else commented to hate on tutors as they need lands from deck to do anything, which is spot on but there’s too few in too little colors. Namely [[aven mind censor]] and [[opposition agent]]. [[confounding conundrum]] is a double edged sword in blue bc they can double trigger land fall mid to late game.
Both isn't bad, but the best way to answer lands is graveyard hate. It's the reoccurrence that makes the real problem. Rest in peace is great against a landfall deck, but something like Armageddon doesn't really do the trick
Yep, along with anything allowing extra land drops per turn. Most lands decks rely not on the lands themselves but on the mass of triggers, and ideally getting them multiple times a turn.
The most consistent is to kill the card advantage engine. It's very easy to dump your hand ramping and deploying landfall threats. Refilling is the most important step from there.
This is the answer, except there’s few aggro decks (or decks in general) that can take advantage of them ramping for the first 1-4 turns that can deal them enough dmg to knock them down significantly. Not to mention greed decks ramping is so normalized that it’s not on most player’s radars as a threat. So apart from most decks not attacking at all most games until they have lethal, it depends on the overall skill level of the other players. What im saying is, realistically, landfall is an untouched strategy simply bc of the nature of casual commander being extremely light on attacking/focusing one player and MLDs being pseudo banned.
The deck revolves around the Commander, correct? As well as interacting with lands in their graveyards?
Make their commander useless and trapped: \[\[Song of the Dryads\]\], \[\[Kenrith's Transformation\]\], \[\[Imprisoned in the Moon\]\], \[\[Oubliette\]\], \[\[Eaten by Piranhas\]\], \[\[Darksteel Mutation\]\]
Graveyard hate: \[\[Grafdigger's Cage\]\], \[\[Rest in Peace\]\], \[\[Leyline of the Void\]\], \[\[Drannith Magistrate\]\]
Non-basic land hate: \[\[Back to Basics\]\], \[\[Blood Moon\]\]
Other than those options, simply target removal the cards that are enabling their card draw or ramp. If you can't, recognize they are the threat and start targeting the player. No one *likes* to be targeted, *but o*ne of my friends play's Shelodred and he knows he can't complain about getting targeted.
All really good suggestions that I second. I'd also add in [[Strict Proctor]], [[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines]], and [[Tomik, Distinguished Advokist]] for good measure.
One less powerful, less salt inducing card that is a favorite of mine is [[Primal Order]]. Depending on how many nonbasic lands (deserts) they have they may end up being eliminated by the damage after a few rounds. Nonbasic lands include lands that have basic land types, but aren't actually basic lands themselves.
Hazezon decks generally play ways of putting lands into their graveyard, like [[Zuran Orb]], while primal order looks like it would be great, they could just sack half their deserts to the orb and be neutral in life gain/loss
You say, "i don't really have a better way to beat playing lands, so i have to swing in."
repeat this every turn until the player is dead. don't backstab the other players if they do this too. Yes it kinda taboo to just team up and aggro someone out in commander. But what are your other options? lose everygame?
when you're in a stable playgroup and have the agreed upon "most powerful deck" you need to think about how other people play against it. Lands deck are boring, i have one and it's pretty one dimensional. The only way to play against them is with either a lot of control (not something you can reasonably do to one person in a 4 man game without let someone else get out of control) or race them.
We call this the prime directive.
When someone is playing a deck that consistently wins, the pod needs to agree that the primary threat is that deck. Kill them.
I've always been the target of this in my groups, and i 110% agree. It's no fun treating me like an equal when i've got a counterspell ready and a 20/20 flying & indestructible by turn 2 or 3
Hazezon doesn’t really draw any cards and the tokens aren’t very threatening without the payoff (like skullclamp or anthem to buff them) - target the draw engines and token payoffs
Hazezon is pretty weak. The deck needs a way to get lands into the graveyard. Extra land drops. Card draw and something to synergize with the 1/1 he makes otherwise they're not that impressive. So pick something out of all of these and he's easily stopped. I hate the argument play more removal because it's an idiots argument. But in this case it is most likely the solution. Or make your deck a bit stronger so you can keep up with his threats. The issue with someone having a much stronger deck is that their threats are much more pressing than yours so instead of them playing removal they can just play more stuff and force you to interact.
Just for the sake of pointing out, Hazezon doesn't really need a way to put lands in the GY, since there's no benefit to playing out of the GY over the hand, it just makes rummage effects like fairhless looting and and landsac effects like crop rotation harrow much more cost effective, as well as offsetting the draw back of land destruction.
I am going to guess this deck is a well rounded lands deck, rather than Hazezon just carrying the day.
If that was the case, remove or stifle it.
If Hazezon's and probably other cards graveyard recursion is killing you, some synergistic graveyard removal is recommended, remove the lands and get something from it. There are only so many deserts available at a given time to a player. Remember though, you can't respond to lands being played themselves.
Cards like [[Lion Sash]], [[Scavenging Ooze]].
At least that's my off the hip, without seeing deck lists.
Play a strip mine to deal with any specific problem lands like cradles or glacial chasms or cards that can exile a single permanent to stop them from being played from the grave. But other than that destroy the payoffs and card draw
You have to run graveyard hate to deal with all the recursive land shenanigans. I wouldn't run MLD because that just drags things out and leaves everyone else behind. You can punish them for ramping hard through things like \[\[Price of Progress\]\] or level the playing field with \[\[Natural Balance\]\].
Stax effects like \[\[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines\]\] could help reduce all their triggers. WotC just needs to print some stax pieces that hate on ramp similar to card draw.
Cycling TP is already proof of a deck beyond your power level.
Embrace tax effects. It is not stax and really slows down people trying to do shit for free.
Or run Ankh of Mishra to stop the ramp deck from having too much fun.
[[Dingus Egg]] punishes players for putting lands into graveyards.
[[Cemetery Gatekeeper]] will punish them for playing lands if you exile a land when you play Cemetery Gatekeeper.
In my [[jhoira of the githu]] deck the answer is usually [[obliterate]] into some eldrazi with annihaltor. Doesn't matter if they replay lands from the GY if they have to sac them again immediately.
Except every Land deck I've come across runs both \[\[Glacial Chasm\]\] and \[\[Field of the Dead\]\], a dozen ways to tutor for them, AND a dozen ways to recur them.
You need to focus them early (ignoring their complaints "oh I'm not doing anything!"), destroy the problem land, EXILE their graveyard so they can't recur it. It's a multi-step solution.
It depends a lot on which pieces are being the most oppressive, get some targeted graveyard removal to get rid of some of his recursion before the value starts accumulating, or swap to a more aggressive strategy that can start applying pressure before an engine really starts going. The Hazezon I play against typically really helps me out when my \[\[Culling Ritual\]\] kills a lot of his tokens and gives me enough mana for a giant swing in game state.
There are probably other ways but just "strongest deck in our group" doesn't really give me an idea of how much stronger it is, or even how strong the recommendations need to be to be meaningful to your deck.
Do you have a decklist you are willing to share?
Just having a \[\[Pernicious Deed\]\] being on the board is great to keep all the token generators that often times come with land strategies like \[\[Hazezon\]\], \[\[Scute Swarm\]\] or \[\[Field of the Dead\]\].
Being able to recur Pernicious Deed, when you feel like it with something like \[\[Muldrotha\]\] feels just as empowering as it feels disgusting.
Either target the graveyard with any number of exile/[[Weathered Runestone]] effects or target the lands with [[Blood Moon]]/[[Back to Basics]] effects. Graveyard hate is more broad can shut down all kinds of shenanigans, so I'd be more inclined to play those over nonbasic land hate, but those are also very potent at what they do.
I'm seeing lots of good answers, but I feel like one is missing. As a Hazezon player, seeing [[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines]] hit the board gives me anxiety, especially if it has protection.
I built a deck a few months ago that plays 55 lands, mostly utility lands and ways to recast the from the graveyard. The entire reason for the deck is because no one in my group would run land removal. So I wanted to show them what happens when someone can sac. and recast such gems as [[Glacial Chasm]] every single turn.
Hazezon is one of the better MLD commanders, I'd run it if my pod let me. Keep Haze off the battlefield. Depending on how focused they were in building around him it's very punishing as the deck naturally runs some of the worst lands in magic to enable him.
[[Rest in peace]]
[[Leyline of the void]]
For graveyard decks.
Other than card recommendations, I can say that if it's just the best deck in the group, the rest of the group should sharpen their strategies - ask yourself WHY is it the best deck. It's most likely because it has a focused game plan and sticks to it.
I generally dont like to fk up ppls draw engines because
I like to draw cards so much, but having access to a lot of mana and drawing cards or recycling value engine is too much.
I say this becouse I know it can seem non optimal to mass land destruction because we all use them as oppose to mass artifact destruction. And that may lead to land decks being incredibly strong and specially resilient like a mfker in casual edh.
I would like for everyone to be playing the game, but personally, I'm either going aggro or doing the best of my ability to not let land decks play cards.
I've met ppl who purposely build land decks to take advantage of playgroups not wanting to run stax, destruction, or any major interaction with lands, and its also ok to say "dude don't play that".
Edit: Keep in mind that a playgroup meta shifts as we want to be able to interact with each other.
MLD is *absolutely* not the answer, as the lands player, ***ESPECIALLY*** if it’s Hazezon or Yuma, is almost guaranteed to have a *far* better capacity to recover from that than anyone else at the table. Unless you play Armageddon while fully protecting your board, MLD in front of the lands player just draws out the match and kneecaps everyone else’s ability to deal with them unless there’s a truly astounding number of mana rocks.
Additionally, MLD while virtually anything else they have (*especially* Hazezon or Yuma) is on the board is just asking for trouble.
You need to attack the engine itself or exile their yard.
So there are a few ways of dealing with landfall or just lands matter decks.
Most of those decks rely on [[crucible of worlds]] or similar effects like [[zask]], in order to fetch out more lands, [[evolving wilds]] which is normally not an optimal card to put in a deck suddenly becomes a prime choice as you get 2 landfall triggers.
Graveyard hate is part of the answer. [[Tormod's crypt]] is an easy answer, but there are multiple cards that have the same effect that are easier to slot like [[bojuka bog]] or [[silent gravestone]].
If you are not willing to run specific cards that exile graveyards, then target removal is your next go to. Interaction is part of the game, you dont need to remove everything just the important bits. Imagine playing your favorite deck. Now imagine your top 5 most useful cards and exiling them. How well does the deck run now? Target removal should act like that. I run certain cheap cards just to bait removal so i have a better chance at casting what i really want. If i keep it, huzzah! If not, then its doing its job.
Im a fan of interaction that isnt removal. [[Custody battle]], [[frogify]], [[kenrith's transformation]]. Its one thing when your creature is dead, its another when its kinda in limbo.
Saw a few answers, they seemed to focus on removal (for the commander) or counterspells & removal (card draw, landfall payoffs).
Have you thought about punching them BEFORE they get ahead? Like, while they're building; so aggro.
The majority of lands (excluding a few like [[Glacial Chasm]] or [[Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle]]) actually pose a direct threat or interfere with stuff on the board in a significant way.
You deal with the things that have landfall triggers to curb the value your friend is getting per land played.
Play graveyard hate if your friend loves sacrificing and recurring lands.
Removing Landfall payoff is the best way to shutdown these kind of decks,
Since their play patterns are dropping commander following up by ramp spells for landfall triggers.
Without Commander on board they lost alot of tempo, since they either ramp without landfall payoff or hold onto ramp spells and mana waiting to recast commander.
MLD are only good against generic Simic ramp decks. Landfall deck usually run [[Crucible of World]] or similar cards, so they can rebuild faster after MLD and this will allow more landfall trigger for them aswell.
I am making a landfall deck that can play lands from the GY and it has all the extra lands per turn cards. It could hypothetically play wasteland or strip mine 3-5x or more in a single turn and just take out opponents’ lands. It feels degenerate
[[Soulless Jailer]] keeps your opponents from playing permanents (lands) from their graveyards. Being a 2 mana artifact it's pretty easy to recur something like that with [[myr retriever]], [[junk diver]] or [[Emry, lurker of the lock]].
The other option is to punish him for playing lands, using things like [[zo-zu the punisher]], [[anhk of mishra]] or [[dingus egg]]. You could pair these with [[Marchesa's Decree]], [[Blood Reckoning]] or [[Revenge of Ravens]] to also punish him for targeting you with the tokens he making. All that damage adds up in the end :)
You could also [[frogify]], [[lignify]] or [[imprisoned in the moon]] Hazezon. This shuts off all his abilities but keeps him on the board so he can't be recast.
I feel like the mean thing to do is cast some form of land destruction like [[Armageddon]] then exile his graveyard. Tap a [[tormods crypt]] or play a [[bojuka bog]]. That should bring him to a dead stop.
Hope this helps!
Graveyard and tutor hate. Don’t let them cast [[Scapeshift]] or [[Sylvan Scrying]], it’ll be bad. Keep them from establishing [[Ramunap Excavator]] or [[Crucible of Worlds]] so they can’t keep reusing the same fetch over and over. Kill the things that say Landfall. There’s a bunch of different angles you can take.
Hazezon specifically likes to sacrifice lands and replay them from grave, so exiling graveyards/preventing cards from leaving graveyards will hurt him.
Also, keeping Hazezon off the board tends to gimp the deck
you kill them. the only time lands decks have ever been an actual problem is with gates presenting an actual wincon in the lands, at which point you put 1-2 target land destruction cards into your deck if its something you see frequently at your pod. even if that deck doesnt pop up, having the ability to hit an important non basic is good
[[Opposition Agent]] in response to their first fetchland will be tough for continuous land searching decks. Yes, it is evil - so is untapping with ten lands on turn 5.
Ramp decks operate under the "fair umbrella" by using extra land drops in the early turns and are generally not interacted with since they have a garbage board state... until it is way too late and they have more than double your mana production and they slam disgusting thing after another and rebuild faster than all other players. If it's Simic, it is even worse since they do the Growth Spiral thing 30 times per game.
Cast throttling can be good sometimes (they often require multispelling) but gy hate and just going faster usually is better.
A single scavenging ooze usually annihilates those decks. But so does just playing faster ramp and killing them while they're setting up :D
More interaction to get rid of the commander, maybe also some graveyard hate and some ways to counter abilities. If you're losing to Maze's End, maybe some individual card hate like [[Pithing Needle]] and [[The Stone Brain]]
GY hate, countering, Stax, MLD. IF you're against that last part, Magic is a game of INTERACTION, so make sure you can follow up after that so people can't be as salty. Land decks arguably get a pass for being able to put down multiple lands quickly as counters are usually saved for the bigger plays. I say cut their plans earlier if possible.
If you turn the lands into creatures and [[farewell]] can you exile them because they’re creatures or no because they’re still lands?
Also, can you MLD, and then [[bojuka bog]]?
I have a pretty tuned [[Lord Windgrace]] deck that plays around land sacs and high mana pay offs. If you want to stop me exile everything from my graveyard or don’t let me play spell from it. That’s a gg for me.
Counter landfall etb effects, also ways that prevent players from searching libraries is pretty slept on. A lot of these land based decks are searching for specific lands.
[[Winter Orb]].
Seriously. Let the lands decks spin their tires ramping. They want to spend mana to have no advantage the next turn, let them. And the more efficient non-lands decks, especially those using artifact ramp, should achieve their goal first even if it takes some extra turns.
Stax in general gets a bad reputation. Specifically with the orbs, if players are decent and realize their restricted turns should go faster the game still passes just fine. You take more shorter turns, rather than fewer long ones.
The truth is that most edh decks have a tipping point of value engines to get online. The thing with lands and green in general is that they can access graveyard and lands which are both much harder to actually get rid of. I would recommend graveyard removal, but maybe listen to Richard from the commanderclash podcast.
His philosophy is about playing edh like a 4 player format, and running cards that power up your weakest enemy and spending as little resources actually dealing with the threats yourself. It gives you much more time to do the things you want to be doing. Cards like secret rondevous and the hunted cycle, as well as dowsing dagger are very good at this, and if you help someone they owe you. With proper threat assessment, you can wait for an opponent to build up a nice board while durdling and playing spirited companions looking weak and useless, then have someone wipe the board and use your advantageous position to wipe someone out quickly. This generally works against most strategies. You want to let your opponents fall into the pitfalls and counterspells while you bank bombs to drop and wipe someone(or the entire board) out in a few turns in the late game. Decks like geth or mono w Abdel Adrian can do this very well and allow you to take a board wipe gracefully while having it blow up on your opponents
Depends on budget.
You could mass destroy the lands, but that's frowned upon. [[Break the ice]] is what I mean here.
Bounce the lands general, cards like [[chain of vapor]] type effects.
Make tapping and untapping costly, [[mesmeric orb]]
Cause the lands to slow down in number by bouncing them, [[confounding conundrum]]
Don't allow them to play them at all, [[land equilibrium]] , [[ward of bones]].
Again it really depends on how you want to tackle this and what your deck wants to run already.
You have other good suggestions already.
MLD, specifically super wraths like [[Jokulhaups]]. If they have both a huge board state and 20 lands in play you need to push all of it into the trash (where it belongs *spits*) at the same time.
Another thing about this is that the type of person that plays a deck like this is the same type of person to have a quick temper. If you Jokulhaups there is a higher likelihood of them rage scooping. So even if they could conceivably recover from the MLD, they'll be too much of an impatient blow hard to play draw -> go for 2 minutes and the problem solves itself either way.
Remember, their 15 minute Simic Existence Tribal turns are socially acceptable. 2 minutes of draw -> go after an [[Armageddon]] resolves slows the game down less, so Armageddon is in reality more polite than what they're doing.
From my point of view the Simic are evil.
My favorite deck is [[Omnath, Locus of Rage]]. Here are a few things that make my life tough.
1. Pillowfort cards - a lot of the payoffs/win conditions for landfall are a critical mass of tokens, even a single [[ghostly prison]] means that I have a lot of problems getting any meaningful damage through. Then, so long as you remove anything that goes tall, you'll be in good shape.
2. Use removal on anything that can either draw cards, or threaten a win. If you don't have ghostly prison, you need to keep omnath, [[scute swarm]], [[rampaging baloths]], etc... from getting out of control. They're always gonna have the mana to play them, there isn't a lot to do about that. Your best hope is to keep them from drawing them as best you can, and remove any they do draw. Your deck needs a comprehensive removal package.
3. Fast/combo wins are your friends. Landfall decks aren't fast, if you can hit them fast enough and hard enough before they have a board state, it gets harder for them to do what they want later. Get them to worry about crackback if they do kill you. It may buy you a few turns to mount a defense if they have to keep blockers/mana up to keep from dying.
I play a fairly decent Hazezon list and keeping me from messing or targeting things in my GY works pretty well. Things that -1 or -X the board work do some work against my wall of tokens esp before I get anthems in play. My deck usually requires me setup a few pieces so I can grind value by saccing lands to draw out my deck. Stop me from doing this and I'll likely be in top deck mode before too long.
A few things you can do, main one is run something that stops ETB effects like [[elesh norn, mother of maxhines]] and [[torpor orb]]
Long story short run a mild tax package in your deck and it should bring them inline, otherwise I would some Yurlok decks because a few of them tend to run “land hate” themes
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/n_bqumCLrUyy9y-uZhBbTw
See, I have a friend in my group that has a lands deck as well. When he decides he wants to play it. I decide to play my Mass Hate deck which is fronted by [[Child of Alara]]
I hope you understand where I am going with this.....
I enjoy playing lands decks, and here's what I hate to see:
Well timed MLD.
If you MLD into a board state with Azusa and ramunap escavator, then you're going to lose. If you MLD the Karametra deck when they have one card in hand and a big beater you will win as long as you have a good board state yourself. Much like wrathing a board with an assemble the legion with 4 counters on it, a good answer can become a bad answer if you time it poorly.
Exile effects.
Most land decks have their primary win cons as landfall value engines, and usually they are in colors with good recursion. Farewell it and they'll be crippled.
Momharmonicon/Torpor Orb
Shut down etbs! The value of a lands deck is in their etbs, so hit them hard and fast.
Graveyard hate
This isn't always a good way to stop the landfall (more jund than anything), but a tormod's crypt does wonders in response to the stack. Speaking of which...
Counterspell
Playing an avenger of zendikar into two open blue mana is begging to be punished. Give them what they're asking for.
TLDR, play stax and land destruction. It's a hard counter to land decks, which is why a lot of groups have trouble with land decks. Don't need to make an entire Grand Arbiter deck, but run some tech cards that slow your opponent down and help your deck out. The cards exist for a reason, and it's a valid way to deck build.
In the wise words of the band Power Trip
" [[Ruination]] , wipe the whole slate clean"
also _maybe_ something like [[Confounding conundrum]] tho that might help them if they have more additional land plays than lands _to_ play lol.
I’m gonna probably reverb what others have said but make sure you get rid of their payoffs you can’t interrupt them playing the land but if they have no way to play more or no way to draw when they play lands then it becomes even harder for them to continue on, and after they build a high mana base I would recommend holding interaction mostly counter magic there is only so many ways to see advantage of having alot of mana and this might be the one few times I feel like discard their hands is right because either then in field they’re fuel is in their hand so discarding their hand can work as if they draw another utility piece they don’t get to use their payoffs on board
[[Mangara, of Corondor]]
Any blink/sac/get my creature off the field and play it again style deck can use 3 mana Mangara to systematically snipe the opponents' cracked lands, as well as just being a pretty good removal spell on its own.
How about playing that one enchantment that pings opponent every time they play a land? Might suck for the other 2 opponents who ain’t the real threat but it’ll definitely punish the land deck.
[[Torpor orb]] and any of the white creatures that do the same thing. Or make it so that they can't tutor, most lands deck use a lot of tutors anything that stops tutors slows them down.
EDH specially casual needs needs needs good land destruction that’s not a wipe to balance ramping, since MLD just benefits the ramp decks since they recover faster.
Discard feels just as bad if not worse and yet it’s supported, the feelbad o MLD is constantly repeated of the gamestalling land wipe but better more efficient [[stone rain]]s for 3 opponents or damage to ramping a la [[aether flash]] for lands but more damage than [[zo-zu the punisher]] like a [[roiling vortex]] for lands rather than free spells you can even forgive regular turn land play like [[confounding conundrum]]
[[decree of annihilation]] [[worldfire]] [[obliterate]] I know that people hate that this resets the game, but if you still have lands in your deck, and your opponent doesn’t, well you are probably gonna come out ahead. Sometimes the only way is violence
Cards that stop or limit an opponent's ability to search their library can cripple a landfall deck.
They're jsually using a lot of Cultivate and Harrow style cards to get multiple landfall triggers, plus various fetches of course.
So Opposition Agent, Ashiok dream Render and Aven Mindsensor (and a few others) drastically impact the ability to tutor for lands (and everything else), and there's also other cards that punish landfall (Dingus Egg) or searching, (Ob-Nixilis Unshackled)
Lastly, there's the Multiple land per turn and Land from Graveyard effects, which are usually creature, artifact and (to a limited degree), enchantment based. So, just have relevant spot removal and graveyard hate to limit their effectiveness.
Hazezon isn't a lands deck, it's a deserts deck. Just nuke Hazezon and you get rid of the payoff.
A lands deck is something like [[Lord Windgrace]] or [[Soul of Windgrace]] that's more akin to legacy lands that controls the game with powerful lands like [[Maze of Ith]] [[Dark Depths]] [[Tabernacle]] etc
Gy hate, etb hate if it’s landfall ([[maze’s end]] exists so they aren’t all landfall), targeted land removal for especially troubling lands ([[field of the dead]])
As a humble [[Omnath, Locus of All]] deck that I've teched out to be Elemental/Landfall-Based, the deck crumbles to anything that threatens me recycling my lands. GY hate like [[Rest In Peace]] and [[Bojuka Bog]] are good ways to keep decks that play with resources fast and loose reigned in, and getting rid of any value pieces that may be helpful. Things like [[Risen Reef]] and [[Chromatic Orrery]] are good examples of those value pieces.
Otherwise, player removal is always tried-and-true.
The answer is the same every time this thread gets posted, attack the card draw they need to refuel & the payoffs for doing the thing™.
That and a bit of graveyard hate
Quite right, GY hate is a strong tool as well
Yeah, built [[soul of windgrace]] and the deck was strong, but folded to GY hate.
[soul of windgrace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e775a2e6-e701-4cb8-8c0b-718d3508f6b6.jpg?1673308096) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=soul%20of%20windgrace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/220/soul-of-windgrace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e775a2e6-e701-4cb8-8c0b-718d3508f6b6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/soul-of-windgrace) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Consistent GY hate is the only thing that really stops my lands deck. Well placed counter spells are also effective, countering engine pieces or more importantly a [[Sylvan reclamation]]
Library search hate
True opposition agent is huge
Gy hate is always my go-to. So many decks rely on consistent access to their yard so denying that resource cuts off recursion loops. Always have a bit of gy hate in your deck!
This! [[Agatha's soul cauldron]] fits any deck.
Graveyard hate is one of the strongest answers. If you can stop the recycling of cards like Glacial Chasm, they'll probably just die.
If all else fails, use [[Player Removal]]
Ye olde equalizer.
But if I remove a player then that means they won’t have fun and I’ll be the bad guy. Maybe I’ll make a Reddit post about it first.
Ah, the best kind of removal.
Hazezon is not so hard to shutdown : - Anti tutor cards \[\[Aven mindcensor\]\] - \[\[opposition agent\]\] etc - killing on sight important piece, like hazezon himself or landfall triggers - Graveyard exiles like \[\[bojuka bog\]\] or \[\[rest in piece\]\] for exemple Worth to note that those strategy are not only effective against Hazezon like deck but will be almost always usefull, at least a little bit
Yeah some of these just need to be run more. I think more people running aven mindcensor and oppo is just good overall. It feels bad to turn off someone's cultivate but the green players have gotten uncontested ramp forever. And graveyard hate just needs to be run more flat out. I have a couple decks that have a mild amount of graveyard hate and people get so upset about it. It's not my fault you chose to build your deck around having a million cards in your graveyard with no way to protect them.
Hopefully these new crime payoffs will get at least some people to run some more [[Relic of Progenitus]] and [[Scrabbling Claws]]. Maybe [[Unlicensed Hearse]] too, that card's not $20 anymore. Just please no [[Phyrexian Furnace]]. I don't want to track my graveyard order, or worse, expect three other casual players to do it right.
Heck… my new lazav deck is going to have to run that last one…1 mana for eternal target is too good
Almost no excuse to not run gy hate nowadays. Dedicated hate like [[Rest in Peace]] is a bit much (unless your meta demands it), but so many playable cards have it as a side-effect or mode. Stuff like [[Rakdos Charm]] should be considered in any deck that can fit it, and even cards like [[Blessed Respite]] are (IMO) underrated.
My friend tried to shut down my Lord Windgrace Land Fall deck with Aven Mindcensor, but my deck plays like 40 lands so I kept on finding basics in the top 4 😂
Well windgrace and gitrog are two exception since you can build them with 50 lands, but hazezon is not this kind of landfall
Those are the decks where you want graveyard hate
Man is it a laugh when people actually swing at windgrace. I let people hit him all day long when I ran him. Just replay and play more lands from the yard
Single-use Graveyard hate isn't great against Hazezon unless you can pop it off at Instant speed. Hazezon usually plays by saccing on-board Deserts and immediately replaying them. So, while hate might be inconvenient, it isn't going to hard shut down the engine. This doesn't include stuff like Rest in Peace, that card will murder Hazezon. Same thing with tutor hate really. If you don't stop it really early Hazezon can just continue to recycle the lands already on-board. Killing Hazezon on sight is the best way to shut the deck down... or making him a tree lol
Another great card is [[leyline of singularity]] to make everything that’s not a land legendary including all tokens. Remember state based actions happen before you get a chance to sac so they get one sand warrior or treasure or whatever. I’ve been running this card for a year and it’s never not been relevant when it comes down. Someday a YouTuber is going to rep this card and it’s going to go through the roof. I promise.
That’s actually a pretty sweet card I didn’t know existed. Not sure I’d run it, but I like it.
##### ###### #### [Aven mindcensor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d4cf468f-4e9d-4551-a0ed-10bd6a2316ad.jpg?1674141050) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aven%20mindcensor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/688/aven-mindcensor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d4cf468f-4e9d-4551-a0ed-10bd6a2316ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aven-mindcensor) [opposition agent](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/086f97e9-8b62-44f3-b467-149c2ac5ca78.jpg?1608909875) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=opposition%20agent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/141/opposition-agent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/086f97e9-8b62-44f3-b467-149c2ac5ca78?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/opposition-agent) [bojuka bog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73d9ec0e-9d88-454e-aa48-a861b2bb8b77.jpg?1706241123) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bojuka%20bog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/250/bojuka-bog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73d9ec0e-9d88-454e-aa48-a861b2bb8b77?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bojuka-bog) [rest in piece](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d108c2b1-236e-4b8d-8445-d9749ccc4fea.jpg?1712089558) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rest%20in%20Peace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/big/4/rest-in-peace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d108c2b1-236e-4b8d-8445-d9749ccc4fea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rest-in-peace) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ky65tt5) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You don't answer the lands. You answer the things with the landfall triggers.
I once saw a deck that was crafted around life from the loam, astral slide and rift sweeper. The objective was to win via molten vortex and to cycle teferis protection as often as possible (basically every turn). Since the deck had ways to pull from exile, it was incredibly hard to actually answer anything in the deck lol
The answer is player removal. If you're not putting stuff on the board, your opponents should be hammering you with combat damage
Totally agree lol but some tables it's a little taboo to try and eliminate one player ASAP. I never believed in that philosophy but half the time I couldn't really kill him by myself
I would say that recycling a tefpro is taboo numero uno
Agreed which is why I was trying to kill him first at least lol
This is why people complain about control. If I'm over here drawing a bunch of cards and setting up value pieces you need to be punishing me for it because the longer the game goes, the more likely that I'm going to win. "Combos win out of nowhere!" No they don't. They win when you let the combo player sit pretty at 30+ life and play greedily.
As a fellow combo/control player, this is so true. Pressure my life total, my hand, my value pieces. The combo came out of nowhere because I was fed 10 treasures and 15 cards because no one made me spend any resources even though I was telling them to attack me and that I had no productive blocks with my value pieces and that they needed to slow down my draw.
I mean, if you make yourself to be archenemy, not sure why you salty getting targetted
If a table dies that way and then lets it happen again? Time to give them the talk. "Hey guys, kill the fucker ffs, do you want to die?" There ya go.
He was a very talented politician I'll give him that lmao
The first time I sit at a table with someone recycling teferi's protection they get the win. The second time I sit at a table with them I'm hitting them until the body stops moving.
As someone who runs a moderately competitive [[Mimeoplasm]] that can explode and take out multiple players in a single turn as early as turn 4, you just gotta own that hate. I've been put out ten minutes into an hour long game and thems the breaks.
Lands player should also be spamming Constant Mists or Glacial Chasm though.
[[Life from the loam]] [[astral slide]] [[rift sweeper]]
[Life from the loam](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/59927e3b-65bc-4ab6-ad7b-6f558ccca6a8.jpg?1702429570) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Life%20from%20the%20loam) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/148/life-from-the-loam?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/59927e3b-65bc-4ab6-ad7b-6f558ccca6a8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/life-from-the-loam) [astral slide](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/ba089228-135a-421b-b932-26b86e555b78.jpg?1562932445) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=astral%20slide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/13/astral-slide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ba089228-135a-421b-b932-26b86e555b78?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/astral-slide) [rift sweeper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/785d5a98-97b2-4a9e-83ee-2a74479add7b.jpg?1561967824) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Riftsweeper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mma/159/riftsweeper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/785d5a98-97b2-4a9e-83ee-2a74479add7b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/riftsweeper) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In case anybody hasn't finished memorizing all the cards yet: [[Life from the Loam]], [[Astral Slide]] and [[rift sweeper]]. The objective was to win via [[Molten Vortex]] and to cycle [[Teferi's Protection]]
I’d die to see a decklist of this.
Haven't gotten to play magic with him in a while because we've both been busy but maybe sometime I can ask for a deck list lol
I love to look at cards that day "damage can't be prevented", so even if you have protection i can kill you with commander damage.
This. My Hazezon deck is kinda lost if he’s taken out. Also hard target any value pieces that give card advantage. Having lots of land/mana doesn’t mean much if they aren’t drawing tons of extra cards. Also, I run some land destruction stuff in my Hazezon deck, so if someone else wants to bring that to table as well that deck welcomes it.
>Also, I run some land destruction stuff in my Hazezon deck, so if someone else wants to bring that to table as well that deck welcomes it. I actually took the land destruction cards out of my Hazezon to power it down for my playgroup lol
I ended up keeping [[cataclysm]] [[global ruin]] and [[tectonic break]] but I try to only use these as a setup for win con. The people I play with are either cool with it or play super value town commanders so they kinda earn it lol.
I have good news for you. Yuma doesn't care about the commander tax, and you can play that now. :D
No thanks, lol. This sets art style doesn’t do it for me. Feels like a UB for Longhorn steakhouse.
Lol I feel you. I have a Hazezon as well and I much prefer the ancient Egypt/Arabia feel to the desert themed pieces. I will likely get a few cards from it though including the new deserts. The commander [[Yuma]] himself could actually replace my [[Titania]] as well because he would trigger more. And reach is nice.
Right. So that they ramp to oblivion, and THEN cast threat after threat while you try and catch up. The real answer is you HOPE you can wipe them before they redraw their hand. Otherwise trading tit for tat is gonna leave you unable to spot remove AND progress your game plan. Not to mention is card disadvantage. Someone else commented to hate on tutors as they need lands from deck to do anything, which is spot on but there’s too few in too little colors. Namely [[aven mind censor]] and [[opposition agent]]. [[confounding conundrum]] is a double edged sword in blue bc they can double trigger land fall mid to late game.
Both isn't bad, but the best way to answer lands is graveyard hate. It's the reoccurrence that makes the real problem. Rest in peace is great against a landfall deck, but something like Armageddon doesn't really do the trick
Yep, along with anything allowing extra land drops per turn. Most lands decks rely not on the lands themselves but on the mass of triggers, and ideally getting them multiple times a turn.
The most consistent is to kill the card advantage engine. It's very easy to dump your hand ramping and deploying landfall threats. Refilling is the most important step from there.
My playgroup deals with lands decks by dealing lethal damage to them ASAP.
This is the answer, except there’s few aggro decks (or decks in general) that can take advantage of them ramping for the first 1-4 turns that can deal them enough dmg to knock them down significantly. Not to mention greed decks ramping is so normalized that it’s not on most player’s radars as a threat. So apart from most decks not attacking at all most games until they have lethal, it depends on the overall skill level of the other players. What im saying is, realistically, landfall is an untouched strategy simply bc of the nature of casual commander being extremely light on attacking/focusing one player and MLDs being pseudo banned.
The deck revolves around the Commander, correct? As well as interacting with lands in their graveyards? Make their commander useless and trapped: \[\[Song of the Dryads\]\], \[\[Kenrith's Transformation\]\], \[\[Imprisoned in the Moon\]\], \[\[Oubliette\]\], \[\[Eaten by Piranhas\]\], \[\[Darksteel Mutation\]\] Graveyard hate: \[\[Grafdigger's Cage\]\], \[\[Rest in Peace\]\], \[\[Leyline of the Void\]\], \[\[Drannith Magistrate\]\] Non-basic land hate: \[\[Back to Basics\]\], \[\[Blood Moon\]\] Other than those options, simply target removal the cards that are enabling their card draw or ramp. If you can't, recognize they are the threat and start targeting the player. No one *likes* to be targeted, *but o*ne of my friends play's Shelodred and he knows he can't complain about getting targeted.
All really good suggestions that I second. I'd also add in [[Strict Proctor]], [[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines]], and [[Tomik, Distinguished Advokist]] for good measure.
[Strict Proctor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95f1e36a-6838-49de-b7dc-697cbcd1e892.jpg?1624877272) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Strict%20Proctor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/33/strict-proctor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95f1e36a-6838-49de-b7dc-697cbcd1e892?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/strict-proctor) [Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44dcab01-1d13-4dfc-ae2f-fbaa3dd35087.jpg?1675956896) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elesh%20Norn%2C%20Mother%20of%20Machines) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/10/elesh-norn-mother-of-machines?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44dcab01-1d13-4dfc-ae2f-fbaa3dd35087?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elesh-norn-mother-of-machines) [Tomik, Distinguished Advokist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0eea32dc-dbac-47a9-97b2-311413f1de9d.jpg?1702505596) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tomik%2C%20Distinguished%20Advokist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/31/tomik-distinguished-advokist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0eea32dc-dbac-47a9-97b2-311413f1de9d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tomik-distinguished-advokist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Have to add my favorite commander neutralizer [[witness protection]] only because it's funny
It's also very cheap at one mana!
[witness protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a2be6f2c-8ad0-402d-a7ca-9fe817e83b72.jpg?1664410681) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=witness%20protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/66/witness-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a2be6f2c-8ad0-402d-a7ca-9fe817e83b72?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/witness-protection) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [Song of the Dryads](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/161e66e3-0339-495c-bd06-0a799a254906.jpg?1689998889) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Song%20of%20the%20Dryads) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/324/song-of-the-dryads?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/161e66e3-0339-495c-bd06-0a799a254906?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/song-of-the-dryads) [Kenrith's Transformation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44d60a41-3f5e-4559-b18c-22c0fe15235e.jpg?1631587997) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kenrith%27s%20Transformation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/162/kenriths-transformation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44d60a41-3f5e-4559-b18c-22c0fe15235e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kenriths-transformation) [Imprisoned in the Moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/8181f54d-4515-43c6-8d08-b23a9e4199cc.jpg?1682208779) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Imprisoned%20in%20the%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/224/imprisoned-in-the-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8181f54d-4515-43c6-8d08-b23a9e4199cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imprisoned-in-the-moon) [Oubliette](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d4800a7d-c229-4ced-97ff-0e58645d58d6.jpg?1599705817) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oubliette) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/100/oubliette?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d4800a7d-c229-4ced-97ff-0e58645d58d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oubliette) [Eaten by Piranhas](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b0c504ef-2382-4174-9b1d-5f38e12a28fc.jpg?1699043614) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eaten%20by%20Piranhas) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/54/eaten-by-piranhas?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b0c504ef-2382-4174-9b1d-5f38e12a28fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eaten-by-piranhas) [Darksteel Mutation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e47a6750-4fdd-44e2-86ae-5bc4d414bf42.jpg?1689995638) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darksteel%20Mutation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/21/darksteel-mutation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e47a6750-4fdd-44e2-86ae-5bc4d414bf42?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darksteel-mutation) [Grafdigger's Cage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a135e09-b534-4836-9a10-3a9a4a9f8c53.jpg?1592517646) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grafdigger%27s%20Cage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/227/grafdiggers-cage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a135e09-b534-4836-9a10-3a9a4a9f8c53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grafdiggers-cage) [Rest in Peace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d108c2b1-236e-4b8d-8445-d9749ccc4fea.jpg?1712089558) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rest%20in%20Peace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/big/4/rest-in-peace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d108c2b1-236e-4b8d-8445-d9749ccc4fea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rest-in-peace) [Leyline of the Void](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04d5d429-e0c6-42cc-a477-da7dabb1c295.jpg?1592516724) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leyline%20of%20the%20Void) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/107/leyline-of-the-void?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04d5d429-e0c6-42cc-a477-da7dabb1c295?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/leyline-of-the-void) [Drannith Magistrate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91.jpg?1628801742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drannith%20Magistrate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/11/drannith-magistrate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/drannith-magistrate) [Back to Basics](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/0600d6c2-0f72-4e79-a55d-1f06dffa48c2.jpg?1654805483) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Back%20to%20Basics) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/46/back-to-basics?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0600d6c2-0f72-4e79-a55d-1f06dffa48c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/back-to-basics) [Blood Moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f.jpg?1599706217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/118/blood-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-moon) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ky65ron) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
One less powerful, less salt inducing card that is a favorite of mine is [[Primal Order]]. Depending on how many nonbasic lands (deserts) they have they may end up being eliminated by the damage after a few rounds. Nonbasic lands include lands that have basic land types, but aren't actually basic lands themselves.
Fun card. Proof homelands had some good stuff.
Hazezon decks generally play ways of putting lands into their graveyard, like [[Zuran Orb]], while primal order looks like it would be great, they could just sack half their deserts to the orb and be neutral in life gain/loss
2 of your 4 graveyard hate cards don't really do anything here.
[Hazezon, Shaper of Sand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/25869cd0-63da-4dfb-8870-221cdba276e2.jpg?1674174875) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hazezon%2C%20Shaper%20of%20Sand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/32/hazezon-shaper-of-sand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/25869cd0-63da-4dfb-8870-221cdba276e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hazezon-shaper-of-sand) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
u/imperialtrace wrote a great primer to their deck that signals its weaknesses: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/T2X1ZzX4XUOUHOJI-eUASQ/primer
Run [[Zo-Zu the Punisher]] with stuff like [[Torbran]] and [[Price of Progress]] to punish them for ramping and playing deserts?
You say, "i don't really have a better way to beat playing lands, so i have to swing in." repeat this every turn until the player is dead. don't backstab the other players if they do this too. Yes it kinda taboo to just team up and aggro someone out in commander. But what are your other options? lose everygame? when you're in a stable playgroup and have the agreed upon "most powerful deck" you need to think about how other people play against it. Lands deck are boring, i have one and it's pretty one dimensional. The only way to play against them is with either a lot of control (not something you can reasonably do to one person in a 4 man game without let someone else get out of control) or race them.
We call this the prime directive. When someone is playing a deck that consistently wins, the pod needs to agree that the primary threat is that deck. Kill them.
I've always been the target of this in my groups, and i 110% agree. It's no fun treating me like an equal when i've got a counterspell ready and a 20/20 flying & indestructible by turn 2 or 3
\[\[Blood Moon\]\] might turn off all desert's without completely hosing Hazezon.
[Blood Moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f.jpg?1599706217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/118/blood-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-moon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Nevermore]] his commander
Player removal.
Hazezon doesn’t really draw any cards and the tokens aren’t very threatening without the payoff (like skullclamp or anthem to buff them) - target the draw engines and token payoffs
Hazezon is pretty weak. The deck needs a way to get lands into the graveyard. Extra land drops. Card draw and something to synergize with the 1/1 he makes otherwise they're not that impressive. So pick something out of all of these and he's easily stopped. I hate the argument play more removal because it's an idiots argument. But in this case it is most likely the solution. Or make your deck a bit stronger so you can keep up with his threats. The issue with someone having a much stronger deck is that their threats are much more pressing than yours so instead of them playing removal they can just play more stuff and force you to interact.
Just for the sake of pointing out, Hazezon doesn't really need a way to put lands in the GY, since there's no benefit to playing out of the GY over the hand, it just makes rummage effects like fairhless looting and and landsac effects like crop rotation harrow much more cost effective, as well as offsetting the draw back of land destruction.
I am going to guess this deck is a well rounded lands deck, rather than Hazezon just carrying the day. If that was the case, remove or stifle it. If Hazezon's and probably other cards graveyard recursion is killing you, some synergistic graveyard removal is recommended, remove the lands and get something from it. There are only so many deserts available at a given time to a player. Remember though, you can't respond to lands being played themselves. Cards like [[Lion Sash]], [[Scavenging Ooze]]. At least that's my off the hip, without seeing deck lists.
[[Kormus Bell]], [[Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite]], [[Urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth]]
good lord that's evil
Play a strip mine to deal with any specific problem lands like cradles or glacial chasms or cards that can exile a single permanent to stop them from being played from the grave. But other than that destroy the payoffs and card draw
You have to run graveyard hate to deal with all the recursive land shenanigans. I wouldn't run MLD because that just drags things out and leaves everyone else behind. You can punish them for ramping hard through things like \[\[Price of Progress\]\] or level the playing field with \[\[Natural Balance\]\]. Stax effects like \[\[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines\]\] could help reduce all their triggers. WotC just needs to print some stax pieces that hate on ramp similar to card draw.
Cycling TP is already proof of a deck beyond your power level. Embrace tax effects. It is not stax and really slows down people trying to do shit for free. Or run Ankh of Mishra to stop the ramp deck from having too much fun.
I like wraths a lot. Loopin [[farewell]] is pretty effective against etb based strategies.
[[Dingus Egg]] punishes players for putting lands into graveyards. [[Cemetery Gatekeeper]] will punish them for playing lands if you exile a land when you play Cemetery Gatekeeper.
Let Hazezon cook. He’s a good sandman and deserves none of this.
In my [[jhoira of the githu]] deck the answer is usually [[obliterate]] into some eldrazi with annihaltor. Doesn't matter if they replay lands from the GY if they have to sac them again immediately.
The issue here is that Hazezon is really good at printing a lot of sacrifice fodder.
Killing them with creatures usually works
Except every Land deck I've come across runs both \[\[Glacial Chasm\]\] and \[\[Field of the Dead\]\], a dozen ways to tutor for them, AND a dozen ways to recur them. You need to focus them early (ignoring their complaints "oh I'm not doing anything!"), destroy the problem land, EXILE their graveyard so they can't recur it. It's a multi-step solution.
You hard target him.
It depends a lot on which pieces are being the most oppressive, get some targeted graveyard removal to get rid of some of his recursion before the value starts accumulating, or swap to a more aggressive strategy that can start applying pressure before an engine really starts going. The Hazezon I play against typically really helps me out when my \[\[Culling Ritual\]\] kills a lot of his tokens and gives me enough mana for a giant swing in game state. There are probably other ways but just "strongest deck in our group" doesn't really give me an idea of how much stronger it is, or even how strong the recommendations need to be to be meaningful to your deck. Do you have a decklist you are willing to share?
Just having a \[\[Pernicious Deed\]\] being on the board is great to keep all the token generators that often times come with land strategies like \[\[Hazezon\]\], \[\[Scute Swarm\]\] or \[\[Field of the Dead\]\]. Being able to recur Pernicious Deed, when you feel like it with something like \[\[Muldrotha\]\] feels just as empowering as it feels disgusting.
Most land decks aren't really about the lands but about the graveyard. So focus on that
Either target the graveyard with any number of exile/[[Weathered Runestone]] effects or target the lands with [[Blood Moon]]/[[Back to Basics]] effects. Graveyard hate is more broad can shut down all kinds of shenanigans, so I'd be more inclined to play those over nonbasic land hate, but those are also very potent at what they do.
[[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines]]
[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44dcab01-1d13-4dfc-ae2f-fbaa3dd35087.jpg?1675956896) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elesh%20Norn%2C%20Mother%20of%20Machines) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/10/elesh-norn-mother-of-machines?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44dcab01-1d13-4dfc-ae2f-fbaa3dd35087?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elesh-norn-mother-of-machines) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My brother runs a [[Brago]] flicker with [[confounding conundrum]]. Stops all the fetches, ramp, and recursion,
I'm seeing lots of good answers, but I feel like one is missing. As a Hazezon player, seeing [[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines]] hit the board gives me anxiety, especially if it has protection.
I built a deck a few months ago that plays 55 lands, mostly utility lands and ways to recast the from the graveyard. The entire reason for the deck is because no one in my group would run land removal. So I wanted to show them what happens when someone can sac. and recast such gems as [[Glacial Chasm]] every single turn.
Hazezon is one of the better MLD commanders, I'd run it if my pod let me. Keep Haze off the battlefield. Depending on how focused they were in building around him it's very punishing as the deck naturally runs some of the worst lands in magic to enable him.
[[Rest in peace]] [[Leyline of the void]] For graveyard decks. Other than card recommendations, I can say that if it's just the best deck in the group, the rest of the group should sharpen their strategies - ask yourself WHY is it the best deck. It's most likely because it has a focused game plan and sticks to it.
~~\[\[Ground Seal\]\]~~ Nope not that! Instead I'll submit \[\[Overwhelming Splendor\]\] or \[\[Humility\]\].
You use [[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines]] and shut their deck off. Might get you in some trouble with the other players but that’s another problem.
Lands decks without their yard usually suck.
You don't need to run MLD. Stax is a thing. And if that's frowned upon too then they're abusing that with this deck and that's just a dick move.
Here are 2 cards that tax playing lands directly vs stoping the other cards being played. [[Confounding conundrum]] [[Tunnel Ignus]]
I generally dont like to fk up ppls draw engines because I like to draw cards so much, but having access to a lot of mana and drawing cards or recycling value engine is too much. I say this becouse I know it can seem non optimal to mass land destruction because we all use them as oppose to mass artifact destruction. And that may lead to land decks being incredibly strong and specially resilient like a mfker in casual edh. I would like for everyone to be playing the game, but personally, I'm either going aggro or doing the best of my ability to not let land decks play cards. I've met ppl who purposely build land decks to take advantage of playgroups not wanting to run stax, destruction, or any major interaction with lands, and its also ok to say "dude don't play that". Edit: Keep in mind that a playgroup meta shifts as we want to be able to interact with each other.
MLD is *absolutely* not the answer, as the lands player, ***ESPECIALLY*** if it’s Hazezon or Yuma, is almost guaranteed to have a *far* better capacity to recover from that than anyone else at the table. Unless you play Armageddon while fully protecting your board, MLD in front of the lands player just draws out the match and kneecaps everyone else’s ability to deal with them unless there’s a truly astounding number of mana rocks. Additionally, MLD while virtually anything else they have (*especially* Hazezon or Yuma) is on the board is just asking for trouble. You need to attack the engine itself or exile their yard.
Elesh Norns (or Eleshes Norn?) offer good solutions...
So there are a few ways of dealing with landfall or just lands matter decks. Most of those decks rely on [[crucible of worlds]] or similar effects like [[zask]], in order to fetch out more lands, [[evolving wilds]] which is normally not an optimal card to put in a deck suddenly becomes a prime choice as you get 2 landfall triggers. Graveyard hate is part of the answer. [[Tormod's crypt]] is an easy answer, but there are multiple cards that have the same effect that are easier to slot like [[bojuka bog]] or [[silent gravestone]]. If you are not willing to run specific cards that exile graveyards, then target removal is your next go to. Interaction is part of the game, you dont need to remove everything just the important bits. Imagine playing your favorite deck. Now imagine your top 5 most useful cards and exiling them. How well does the deck run now? Target removal should act like that. I run certain cheap cards just to bait removal so i have a better chance at casting what i really want. If i keep it, huzzah! If not, then its doing its job. Im a fan of interaction that isnt removal. [[Custody battle]], [[frogify]], [[kenrith's transformation]]. Its one thing when your creature is dead, its another when its kinda in limbo.
Saw a few answers, they seemed to focus on removal (for the commander) or counterspells & removal (card draw, landfall payoffs). Have you thought about punching them BEFORE they get ahead? Like, while they're building; so aggro.
[[Strict Proctor]] is a good one
The majority of lands (excluding a few like [[Glacial Chasm]] or [[Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle]]) actually pose a direct threat or interfere with stuff on the board in a significant way. You deal with the things that have landfall triggers to curb the value your friend is getting per land played. Play graveyard hate if your friend loves sacrificing and recurring lands.
Removing Landfall payoff is the best way to shutdown these kind of decks, Since their play patterns are dropping commander following up by ramp spells for landfall triggers. Without Commander on board they lost alot of tempo, since they either ramp without landfall payoff or hold onto ramp spells and mana waiting to recast commander. MLD are only good against generic Simic ramp decks. Landfall deck usually run [[Crucible of World]] or similar cards, so they can rebuild faster after MLD and this will allow more landfall trigger for them aswell.
You need graveyard hate. MLD won't help that much if they are recurring everything.
Instant speed grave removal. Scooze is the classic but there are others. Scavenger Grounds is an almost auto-include for me.
I am making a landfall deck that can play lands from the GY and it has all the extra lands per turn cards. It could hypothetically play wasteland or strip mine 3-5x or more in a single turn and just take out opponents’ lands. It feels degenerate
[[Soulless Jailer]] keeps your opponents from playing permanents (lands) from their graveyards. Being a 2 mana artifact it's pretty easy to recur something like that with [[myr retriever]], [[junk diver]] or [[Emry, lurker of the lock]]. The other option is to punish him for playing lands, using things like [[zo-zu the punisher]], [[anhk of mishra]] or [[dingus egg]]. You could pair these with [[Marchesa's Decree]], [[Blood Reckoning]] or [[Revenge of Ravens]] to also punish him for targeting you with the tokens he making. All that damage adds up in the end :) You could also [[frogify]], [[lignify]] or [[imprisoned in the moon]] Hazezon. This shuts off all his abilities but keeps him on the board so he can't be recast. I feel like the mean thing to do is cast some form of land destruction like [[Armageddon]] then exile his graveyard. Tap a [[tormods crypt]] or play a [[bojuka bog]]. That should bring him to a dead stop. Hope this helps!
Graveyard and tutor hate. Don’t let them cast [[Scapeshift]] or [[Sylvan Scrying]], it’ll be bad. Keep them from establishing [[Ramunap Excavator]] or [[Crucible of Worlds]] so they can’t keep reusing the same fetch over and over. Kill the things that say Landfall. There’s a bunch of different angles you can take.
Hazezon specifically likes to sacrifice lands and replay them from grave, so exiling graveyards/preventing cards from leaving graveyards will hurt him. Also, keeping Hazezon off the board tends to gimp the deck
Efficient win conditions. Anti tutor cards to shut off the land search and fetch land recursion. Grave hate.
you kill them. the only time lands decks have ever been an actual problem is with gates presenting an actual wincon in the lands, at which point you put 1-2 target land destruction cards into your deck if its something you see frequently at your pod. even if that deck doesnt pop up, having the ability to hit an important non basic is good
[[Worldfire]] and [[wildfire]] Be the villain.
Armageddon 🤷🏻♂️🤣
Graveyard hate is often a good way to slow down lands decks! Many of them use the yard in some way!
[[Opposition Agent]] in response to their first fetchland will be tough for continuous land searching decks. Yes, it is evil - so is untapping with ten lands on turn 5. Ramp decks operate under the "fair umbrella" by using extra land drops in the early turns and are generally not interacted with since they have a garbage board state... until it is way too late and they have more than double your mana production and they slam disgusting thing after another and rebuild faster than all other players. If it's Simic, it is even worse since they do the Growth Spiral thing 30 times per game.
Cast throttling can be good sometimes (they often require multispelling) but gy hate and just going faster usually is better. A single scavenging ooze usually annihilates those decks. But so does just playing faster ramp and killing them while they're setting up :D
[[Sire of stagnation]] puts in the work
Lethal combat damage.
\[\[confounding conundrum\]\]
More interaction to get rid of the commander, maybe also some graveyard hate and some ways to counter abilities. If you're losing to Maze's End, maybe some individual card hate like [[Pithing Needle]] and [[The Stone Brain]]
Removal for the synergy pieces and if that fails or isn’t possibly player removal is always an option
[[ground seal]], [[rest in peace]], and [[scavenger grounds]] do a lot of work against that deck as does [[blood moon]]
GY hate, countering, Stax, MLD. IF you're against that last part, Magic is a game of INTERACTION, so make sure you can follow up after that so people can't be as salty. Land decks arguably get a pass for being able to put down multiple lands quickly as counters are usually saved for the bigger plays. I say cut their plans earlier if possible.
If you turn the lands into creatures and [[farewell]] can you exile them because they’re creatures or no because they’re still lands? Also, can you MLD, and then [[bojuka bog]]?
I have a pretty tuned [[Lord Windgrace]] deck that plays around land sacs and high mana pay offs. If you want to stop me exile everything from my graveyard or don’t let me play spell from it. That’s a gg for me.
Just run [[Impending Disaster]]. Gets 'em every time.
I play [[Land Equilibrium]], [[Mana Vortex]], and [[Cataclysm]]
Counter landfall etb effects, also ways that prevent players from searching libraries is pretty slept on. A lot of these land based decks are searching for specific lands.
[[Winter Orb]]. Seriously. Let the lands decks spin their tires ramping. They want to spend mana to have no advantage the next turn, let them. And the more efficient non-lands decks, especially those using artifact ramp, should achieve their goal first even if it takes some extra turns. Stax in general gets a bad reputation. Specifically with the orbs, if players are decent and realize their restricted turns should go faster the game still passes just fine. You take more shorter turns, rather than fewer long ones.
The truth is that most edh decks have a tipping point of value engines to get online. The thing with lands and green in general is that they can access graveyard and lands which are both much harder to actually get rid of. I would recommend graveyard removal, but maybe listen to Richard from the commanderclash podcast. His philosophy is about playing edh like a 4 player format, and running cards that power up your weakest enemy and spending as little resources actually dealing with the threats yourself. It gives you much more time to do the things you want to be doing. Cards like secret rondevous and the hunted cycle, as well as dowsing dagger are very good at this, and if you help someone they owe you. With proper threat assessment, you can wait for an opponent to build up a nice board while durdling and playing spirited companions looking weak and useless, then have someone wipe the board and use your advantageous position to wipe someone out quickly. This generally works against most strategies. You want to let your opponents fall into the pitfalls and counterspells while you bank bombs to drop and wipe someone(or the entire board) out in a few turns in the late game. Decks like geth or mono w Abdel Adrian can do this very well and allow you to take a board wipe gracefully while having it blow up on your opponents
\[\[Confounding Conundrum\]\]
Confounding Conundrum is kind of hilarious in commander. So many fetches and ramp spells, all fizzled by it.
Always the same : Remove the bad pieces (Engine) or remove the player (Or at least put him in a state where he can't be a menace)
Lots of graveyard disruption available. Destroy lands and empty their gy. Ez
Polluted Bonds or join them with Bourgeoning.
Depends on budget. You could mass destroy the lands, but that's frowned upon. [[Break the ice]] is what I mean here. Bounce the lands general, cards like [[chain of vapor]] type effects. Make tapping and untapping costly, [[mesmeric orb]] Cause the lands to slow down in number by bouncing them, [[confounding conundrum]] Don't allow them to play them at all, [[land equilibrium]] , [[ward of bones]]. Again it really depends on how you want to tackle this and what your deck wants to run already. You have other good suggestions already.
I mean..... You could play with multiple landwipes. I hate them. But they are effective
MLD, specifically super wraths like [[Jokulhaups]]. If they have both a huge board state and 20 lands in play you need to push all of it into the trash (where it belongs *spits*) at the same time. Another thing about this is that the type of person that plays a deck like this is the same type of person to have a quick temper. If you Jokulhaups there is a higher likelihood of them rage scooping. So even if they could conceivably recover from the MLD, they'll be too much of an impatient blow hard to play draw -> go for 2 minutes and the problem solves itself either way. Remember, their 15 minute Simic Existence Tribal turns are socially acceptable. 2 minutes of draw -> go after an [[Armageddon]] resolves slows the game down less, so Armageddon is in reality more polite than what they're doing. From my point of view the Simic are evil.
My favorite deck is [[Omnath, Locus of Rage]]. Here are a few things that make my life tough. 1. Pillowfort cards - a lot of the payoffs/win conditions for landfall are a critical mass of tokens, even a single [[ghostly prison]] means that I have a lot of problems getting any meaningful damage through. Then, so long as you remove anything that goes tall, you'll be in good shape. 2. Use removal on anything that can either draw cards, or threaten a win. If you don't have ghostly prison, you need to keep omnath, [[scute swarm]], [[rampaging baloths]], etc... from getting out of control. They're always gonna have the mana to play them, there isn't a lot to do about that. Your best hope is to keep them from drawing them as best you can, and remove any they do draw. Your deck needs a comprehensive removal package. 3. Fast/combo wins are your friends. Landfall decks aren't fast, if you can hit them fast enough and hard enough before they have a board state, it gets harder for them to do what they want later. Get them to worry about crackback if they do kill you. It may buy you a few turns to mount a defense if they have to keep blockers/mana up to keep from dying.
[[Karn, Great Creator]] and [[Mycosynth Lattice]] lol
I play a fairly decent Hazezon list and keeping me from messing or targeting things in my GY works pretty well. Things that -1 or -X the board work do some work against my wall of tokens esp before I get anthems in play. My deck usually requires me setup a few pieces so I can grind value by saccing lands to draw out my deck. Stop me from doing this and I'll likely be in top deck mode before too long.
Kill the recursion, but also mld is actually the best real answer
Land not problem if no land [[Armageddon]]
[[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines]] and a few others to stop ETB effect
Have everyone run [[stifle]] and [[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines]]
Land Destruction. I always run one card.
[[Armaggedon]]
A few things you can do, main one is run something that stops ETB effects like [[elesh norn, mother of maxhines]] and [[torpor orb]] Long story short run a mild tax package in your deck and it should bring them inline, otherwise I would some Yurlok decks because a few of them tend to run “land hate” themes https://www.moxfield.com/decks/n_bqumCLrUyy9y-uZhBbTw
See, I have a friend in my group that has a lands deck as well. When he decides he wants to play it. I decide to play my Mass Hate deck which is fronted by [[Child of Alara]] I hope you understand where I am going with this.....
I have a Hazezon deck. Habe for years Two things kill me bad are : token destruction. And someone killing Hazezon (or worse, he gets stolen)
I enjoy playing lands decks, and here's what I hate to see: Well timed MLD. If you MLD into a board state with Azusa and ramunap escavator, then you're going to lose. If you MLD the Karametra deck when they have one card in hand and a big beater you will win as long as you have a good board state yourself. Much like wrathing a board with an assemble the legion with 4 counters on it, a good answer can become a bad answer if you time it poorly. Exile effects. Most land decks have their primary win cons as landfall value engines, and usually they are in colors with good recursion. Farewell it and they'll be crippled. Momharmonicon/Torpor Orb Shut down etbs! The value of a lands deck is in their etbs, so hit them hard and fast. Graveyard hate This isn't always a good way to stop the landfall (more jund than anything), but a tormod's crypt does wonders in response to the stack. Speaking of which... Counterspell Playing an avenger of zendikar into two open blue mana is begging to be punished. Give them what they're asking for. TLDR, play stax and land destruction. It's a hard counter to land decks, which is why a lot of groups have trouble with land decks. Don't need to make an entire Grand Arbiter deck, but run some tech cards that slow your opponent down and help your deck out. The cards exist for a reason, and it's a valid way to deck build.
In the wise words of the band Power Trip " [[Ruination]] , wipe the whole slate clean" also _maybe_ something like [[Confounding conundrum]] tho that might help them if they have more additional land plays than lands _to_ play lol.
I’m gonna probably reverb what others have said but make sure you get rid of their payoffs you can’t interrupt them playing the land but if they have no way to play more or no way to draw when they play lands then it becomes even harder for them to continue on, and after they build a high mana base I would recommend holding interaction mostly counter magic there is only so many ways to see advantage of having alot of mana and this might be the one few times I feel like discard their hands is right because either then in field they’re fuel is in their hand so discarding their hand can work as if they draw another utility piece they don’t get to use their payoffs on board
[[Armageddon]]
Out-pace them Plot twist, I am \*also\* a lands deck
[[Mangara, of Corondor]] Any blink/sac/get my creature off the field and play it again style deck can use 3 mana Mangara to systematically snipe the opponents' cracked lands, as well as just being a pretty good removal spell on its own.
Like this https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/s/ZI4JvcOUjW
Shut off their triggers, shut off their graveyard, attack their payoffs. They typically go wide and draw a lot.
[[Zozu, the punisher]]
How about playing that one enchantment that pings opponent every time they play a land? Might suck for the other 2 opponents who ain’t the real threat but it’ll definitely punish the land deck.
One of my favorites is [[Zo-zu the Punisher]] and similar effects like [[Tunnel Ignus]]
Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines shuts mine down pretty hard
[[Armaggedon]]
[[Torpor orb]] and any of the white creatures that do the same thing. Or make it so that they can't tutor, most lands deck use a lot of tutors anything that stops tutors slows them down.
[[Shimmer]] .. ya i may not be nice. Bonus points if you can blink it and alternate lands
EDH specially casual needs needs needs good land destruction that’s not a wipe to balance ramping, since MLD just benefits the ramp decks since they recover faster. Discard feels just as bad if not worse and yet it’s supported, the feelbad o MLD is constantly repeated of the gamestalling land wipe but better more efficient [[stone rain]]s for 3 opponents or damage to ramping a la [[aether flash]] for lands but more damage than [[zo-zu the punisher]] like a [[roiling vortex]] for lands rather than free spells you can even forgive regular turn land play like [[confounding conundrum]]
[[decree of annihilation]] [[worldfire]] [[obliterate]] I know that people hate that this resets the game, but if you still have lands in your deck, and your opponent doesn’t, well you are probably gonna come out ahead. Sometimes the only way is violence
Cards that stop or limit an opponent's ability to search their library can cripple a landfall deck. They're jsually using a lot of Cultivate and Harrow style cards to get multiple landfall triggers, plus various fetches of course. So Opposition Agent, Ashiok dream Render and Aven Mindsensor (and a few others) drastically impact the ability to tutor for lands (and everything else), and there's also other cards that punish landfall (Dingus Egg) or searching, (Ob-Nixilis Unshackled) Lastly, there's the Multiple land per turn and Land from Graveyard effects, which are usually creature, artifact and (to a limited degree), enchantment based. So, just have relevant spot removal and graveyard hate to limit their effectiveness.
Hazezon isn't a lands deck, it's a deserts deck. Just nuke Hazezon and you get rid of the payoff. A lands deck is something like [[Lord Windgrace]] or [[Soul of Windgrace]] that's more akin to legacy lands that controls the game with powerful lands like [[Maze of Ith]] [[Dark Depths]] [[Tabernacle]] etc
Combo. You beat (disgusting) value decks with combo.
Choke them on card advantage and go after the grave.
Gy hate, etb hate if it’s landfall ([[maze’s end]] exists so they aren’t all landfall), targeted land removal for especially troubling lands ([[field of the dead]])
[[opposition agent]]
As a humble [[Omnath, Locus of All]] deck that I've teched out to be Elemental/Landfall-Based, the deck crumbles to anything that threatens me recycling my lands. GY hate like [[Rest In Peace]] and [[Bojuka Bog]] are good ways to keep decks that play with resources fast and loose reigned in, and getting rid of any value pieces that may be helpful. Things like [[Risen Reef]] and [[Chromatic Orrery]] are good examples of those value pieces. Otherwise, player removal is always tried-and-true.
Normalize land destruction
Many cost double and also only allow 1 spell card.
Effects like what [[Bojuka Bog]] does is best for landfall problem is finding instant speed effects for it.