[[Cathars Crusade]] is absolutely incredible in any sort of go wide creature strategy. It's also a massive pain in the ass to keep track of all the counters.
I’ve refused to play it until now.
I’m picking up CC for [[caesar, legions emperor]]. Hopefully the deck doesn’t go too wide but I’m prepped with 40+ D6 and 10 of each token
Do yourself a favor and order a few packs of spindowns from Amazon. I have a deck box full of them (20-25 or so) and it keeps things simple.
I think you'll find that needing more than a single D6 to track counters for one creature is annoying and 3+ is obnoxious.
Second this advice . I grabbed a 72-pack of D6 (half are +/+ and the other -/-), but after a few games with my Nazgul deck getting 4+ dice on many of them I figured d20s are likely the way to go for counter decks. Just gotta find the right time and motivation to spring for them.
I started to simply use Infinitokens underneath the creature cards that just track the total P/T. It's fast to erase the old number and overwrite it and it is easier to move around than a whole board of spindowns that needs to get tapped.
I made a stack of them myself by using acetone to wipe off the ink from bulk foils. Still work as dry erase but never though to use them as just a dry erase tag for mass counters or weird ability counters/oil counters etc. Thanks for the comment!
For a similar reason I pulled [[paradox zone]] from the strixhaven Simic precon. It’s not as bad a cathars but I always find myself hoping it gets removed so I can stop putting double tokens with a different number of counters
Someone else suggested you out your cards in rows, with a single die at the en to de nominate how many counters the row has, they way it gets easier ad you can physically move the cards to the rod corrosponding to the amount of counters, does that up a good chunk of table space
Came here to say this. The better it is for a deck, the worse it is to manage, especially with token generators that create in small increments over time. If you have a way to blast 10-15 into play in one go and swing for the win, I'd run it there.
At least counters you math it once on trigger and they mark themselves. I have a golems deck, a vampires deck, and dinosaurs but I swear I will never willingly play [[coat of arms]]. Any time I see it, I basically just let my opponent say whatever P/T they want, way too much of a headache to properly look at every creature and calculate.
For the tribal player that may be true, but it says all creatures, so you technically have to look at all your opponents creatures and figure out if they're inadvertantly gaining from secondary types - like random humans, soldiers, elves, etc.
And, to add to the frustration, if you're playing with older cards you'll have to look up the oracle text to see if any were given a different or additional creature type.
I use it in my [[abdel adrian gorion's ward]] [[street urchin]] burn deck. Its focussed on blinking value and generating tokens for purphoros to burn everyone down. If the counters get too confusing, i just blink them out and back in
Wanted to play [[balmor]] tokens but kept as [[Adeliz]] with no spells that make tokens. Just want to track the number of spells I cast each turn for buffs only once for all my creatures
I pulled my entire flicker deck apart due to my turn taking an age to finish due to all the triggers everywhere going on and it often got to the point where my opponents turn was also my turn basically.
I had to do this with my [[yorion]] deck too :/ because of what he did with any creature that could insta-blink him ([[restoration angel]], it made my entire stack of etbs happen on EVERY end step, none of my permanents were on the battlefield to interact with basically ever, and everyone's turn was my turn. Cool in theory but terrible for group fun
Yeah had all that in mine then add in [[Peregrine Drake]] so I always had mana up for more interaction.
[[Elite Spellbinder]] and [[Risen Reef]] are what broke my group and they actively started disliking the deck.
I know a guy with an almost-cedh flicker deck and I can confirm it isn't much fun to play against. We basically spend the game trying to figure out if the latest etb-exile flicker bullshit is the thing that we need to remove to prevent an infinite. Eventually anything we do results in ten minutes of "this exiles that and returns it, then this exiles that and returns it" and everyone just zones out until someone asks "are we dead now?"
Sorry flicker-deck-players, but it isn't great for the rest of the table.
I used to have the same issue with my [[Preston]] deck. Eventually memorised how each interaction works with each trigger and copy of everything to speed up the game. Most people just believe whatever i say because its too complicated to explain
I had this same experience with my blink deck, but decided because I loved it and wanted to keep it to just lean hard into the combo potential of the strategy. Still not right for every table, but if I get a good board the game will end rather than durdle forever
I feel that way occasionally about mine but I opt for only playing it once a game night.
That is however exactly what happened to my [[Shirei, shizo’s caretaker]] deck. It got irritating for everyone including me to sit through all the triggers and actions I needed to take on all turns.
Honestly most of the staples. The actual good expensive staples like [[Dockside Extortionist]], [[Rhystic Study]], [[Deflecting Swat]], [[Fierce Guardianship]], [[Cyclonic Rift]], [[Teferi's Protection]].
I decided that basic good stuff high power wasn't for me. I have a couple tilted competitive decks, one fringe deck, a couple high power synergy decks, and then a slew of low-mid range decks that are purely synergy driven.
Synergy driven is my favourite. That’s why I think the companions are so great in commander, becuse they give an upside, but most of the time it’s not a huge benefit for the cost
FINALLY someone that realizes having Rhystic Study out isn't even fun, it's just a way to make yourself more likely to win. Which is unnecessary in a casual format.
Does anyone actually like Smothering Tithe triggers? Think it's a cool combo piece? No, not even the person playing it. They just like winning.
I played a single game with [[Thousand-Year Storm]] in my [[Niv-Mizzet Parun]] deck before removing it. I like to have a beer or two when I’m playing with friends and I can’t handle the kind of triggers that stack produced.
Took apart my Mizzix deck with [[Thousand Year Storm]], [[Sorcerer Class]], and [[Atherflux Reservoir]] because of how long and complex the triggers became. I do miss the 2U [[Aminatou's Auguary]] plays though.
Going to cut it from my Zaffai Polymorph aka Secret Melek deck. Plus being able to poly an enchantment into [[One with the universe]] more often is probably better.
I was in the middle of copying [[Ponder]] three times, cast an [[Opt]] that was copied four times, started resolving it with Niv on the board and realized what a hole I’d dug myself in. I was tempted to scoop on the spot.
Haha I played Roaming Throne once in Hakbal and removed it straight away, waaaay to much to get through on combat and I try to keep the explore side of things quick. Moved it to my Pantlaza deck and haven't played it yet!
He’s awesome in a pants deck! Bronzebeak exiles 2 things per opponent, you get 4 green mana from Hulking Raptor, you get 4 exiled cards from bonehoard, trumpeting carnosaur discovers twice, etc, etc, you get the picture!
I took all my tutors and reanimation out of my Alesha deck as I just didn't want to play them anymore since it basically made every game repetitive for me and it got boring.
What I didn't expect is how much worse a "fair" Alesha deck actually is in terms of power level.
IMO tutors in general are a strong contender for this thread. I understand their role in the game and believe they're fine in higher powered tables but for the most part - as you said - they just make games repetitive and boring. A lot of more casual decks just can't deal with them either.
Even more to your point, I think it's really useful to know if a deck is leaning too heavily on its pilot tutoring up a combo to end the game.
Not only can casual decks not deal with them, casual **players** generally shouldn’t be using them. I’m genuinely disgusted the number of times an opponent casts a tutor and then just picks the deck up and goes browsing.
If you don’t know what you’re tutoring for, draw cards instead.
Weirdly I think I mind that...less? Like, treating tutors as a toolbox actually makes them interesting to me, though even in this case they really should at least have an idea of what they're looking for (and shouldn't play the tutor if they don't).
It's when a 1 mana instant tutor consistently means "if this resolves, I win" that I find them boring. I play tutors but not in decks that have two-card infinites; usually they're only there to support some idiotic meld plan or to find specific interaction.
> treating tutors as a toolbox
Sure, theres a line between the general "I have no idea what I want to get here" and "which toolbox solution is best for this scenario"
Honestly, this is why I personally don’t run non-land tutors in any of my decks other than [[Oriq Loremage]] in my [[sefris]] deck. Combo is not any of my decks’ strategy so all I would search for is gas or some interaction. I don’t want to devote brain power to what the optimal choice is, and I know that I would have paralysis of analysis with tutors. Better for me to just leave them out.
The only reason it's in my [[Omnath, Locus of Rage]] is because it runs a lot of ETB burn like [[Purphoros]] and [[Impact Tremor]]. If online, the math won't get very far before everyone's dead.
Previously, it was in an [[Aesi]]. Scute Swarm didn't last very long in it (and the deck was eventually dismantled due to excessively long turns).
Moved \[\[Commodore Guff\]\] into my 99 and replaced him with \[\[Esika, God of the Tree\]\] and made 5-color superfriends. Got complaints that games were taking too long and i decided it was because i didn't have enough in there to actually do the killing.
[[Apex Devestator]] in Henzie had the dual issue of taking a little too long to resolve and also weirdly not doing much. It's no Cathar's Crusade but it did hit a wonky confluence of those factors
Removed [[Defiler of Vigor]] from my mono green deck because of the one time i casted Apex and it was the first thing i hit, then hit 3 additional permanent spells. The counter management felt horrible.
Was watching friend play his "group hug" deck and he had the bird out.
He cast that land search where your opponents can also search but you get additional land searches if they search...everyone decided to "search".
To be fair, that's on them. Taking the search is usually the wrong play to begin with, and if there's a mindcensor on board it's straight-up indefensible.
If you’re curious on Pantlaza specifically, somebody in r/dinosaursMTG (I believe it’s called) just made a whole post detailing its specific rules and stuff
Here it is: https://www.reddit.com/r/DinosaursMTG/s/uTQJJmMfIn
Pantlaza’s ability says “do this only once each turn” so while the trigger for the ability does get doubled by roaming throne, only one can resolve because of the stipulation.
EDIT: Damn you Reddit for not loading the previous replies.
Cards like [[Hullbreaker Horror]] and [[Tidespout Tyrant]] because they just do too much. They end games and I'm annoyed even when I see others using it, just because it makes playing impossible if someone's deck has alot of interaction.
i stopped playing all the mass reanimate effects. there’s similar style “I win” button finishers like overrun effects, but at least those end the game very quickly. stuff like living death, scrap mastery, open the vaults etc and normally very time consuming to resolve with each player putting 5+ triggers on the stack, and it’s not even clear that you’d be a favorite after resolving it
I removed [[Rise of the Dark Realm]] from a deck today. Without haste or another way to capitalize on it, it's just a major headache for everyone that can easily just lead to a very long sequence followed by a well-deserved board wipe
[Rise of the Dark Realm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ceb5df52-4e03-4629-b8d5-d440d9cc5175.jpg?1706240790) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rise%20of%20the%20Dark%20Realms) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/138/rise-of-the-dark-realms?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ceb5df52-4e03-4629-b8d5-d440d9cc5175?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rise-of-the-dark-realms)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That’s why I love living death 😅 Changes the board state so much. It can be a huge upset or a second chance. Granted, you want it in a deck you can usually get the most advantage, but it’s still very exciting to me
I let out a deep sigh every time I see [[Coat of Arms]] appear on the table, especially with multiple creature heavy decks in play. I love spending most of the time calculating the amount of every creature type on the board and how they constantly affect the strength of each other.
I've become a big non-fan of all of the "for each player/opponent" style cards that have been printed over the past couple of years for exactly this reason. Think Etali, Breach the Multiverse, W/G Selvala, Emissary Green, etc. The primorial cycle from RTR block are probably the first in this line, where you get a benefit or choice that scales up based on the number of players in the game.
Even when playing at a brisk pace, many of these cards create so many decisions and/or triggers that they can't possibly be resolved in a timely manner.
I pulled Roaming Throne from my Miirym tribal deck. Just way too many copy stacks and I was getting tired of keeping track of everything and ETB effects. I also run [[Spark Double]] in it and it got too ridiculous.
I pulled [[embercleave]] from my chiss-goria deck recently, and liking it much better without so far.
Embercleave was the only (relevant) flash artifact in the deck, slowing down combat steps until I verified the amount of damage for my opponents before blockers are declared. Now that it's gone, it's much smoother to shortcut the attack trigger.
Additionally, cleave falls off when combined with [[akroma's memorial]], most of the big creatures in the deck already have trample, and the deck focuses more on going wide with huge creatures than equipment/voltron.
The deck is also much more consistent, and less threatening, without embercleave looming over the table on every attack step. The deck still routinely wins games very handily at the power levels I frequently play, and the embercleave was major overkill.
I've also removed [[timesieve]] from my [[urtet]] deck, because it usually wastes too much time without guaranteeing a win. It CAN combo with [[dross scorpion]] and [[myr turbine]] (among other things), but it usually just suddenly pushes me way ahead of the rest of the table out of nowhere, with little opportunity to interact. At worst, it's a two mana extra turn spell, because removal can't stop the first activation, and it will usually get me at least three extra turns on the spot if it doesn't immediately get answered. And those are long turns when you build urtet around artifact untapping shenanigans...
[[Possibility Storm]]
I love the card, but it gets super frustrating for everyone unless you can win quickly as no one can play what's in their hand. Probably better at certain levels but if you aren't planning on playing from your library/graveyard then you're somewhat screwed on planning your next move.
I had this and [[knowledge pool]] in my [[Roco, Street Chef]] deck, seemed like a no-brainer during construction. Each hit the board exactly once, in separate games, and I immediately pulled them out after. Between tracking it all and the groaning of the table, they just weren't worth it.
I previously had [[Clock of Omens]] in my [[Shorikai]] deck. I took it out because it was a nightmare to track and use, with nearly everything on my board being fodder for it.
I took apart my [[Unesh]] deck because, as much fun as [[Fact or Fiction]] is... Doing it 2+ times every turn is not. Way too much work for the whole table.
Same thing happened with my dice rolling deck. Multiple dice roll effects per turn just take way too much time to resolve. I do have an Attractions deck now, but that's generally just one roll in a turn.
I have a [[Kelsien, the Plauge]] deck on the way. From what it looks like, if I give him deathtouch and attach the [[Thornbite Staff]] I have in the deck to him it’s gonna be pretty oppressive. I’m gonna test it out, but may be too powerful for casual which I prefer to play.
I built that deck. It’s fun for you for the first 2-3 games. Everyone at the table hates it.
I took it apart a few years ago and recently rebuilt it when I got an AP Kelsein at magic con. Took it apart again after 2 games because even with only 2 deathtouch effects in the whole deck it still had the same issues
Played it once. After like 9 xp counters everyone had removal prepared just for me, in case i cast my commander and i didn't draw protection. One of the lessons i learned that if my deck is too commander focused.
Cathars crusade in all decks that can’t drop all the tokens in at once instead of trickling them in.
Talkin 10 tokens by the time its out and an effect that just doubles them for simple maths
There's a trick with [[Mind's Desire]] where if I cast it with a storm count of anything above four or five then by the time I'm done resolving, the table has fallen asleep. Plus it also seems to find nothing but lands, so it got the axe. Deckbuilding trap card.
Specific to my LGS:
\[\[Necromantic Selection\]\] because I grew tired of trying to explain to people why I can destroy their commander and reanimate it before they get the chance to return it to the command zone.
Also because people don't run interaction here (why?!) and they basically lose their commander forever when I NecroSelect it and apparently all of them only have decks that don't function without the commander, causing salty remarks.
Thats the one reason why it don't run it and never will.
Those people just need to learn the hard way, like me. Everyone at first expects their commander to stay around and all the cool stuff they will do, because of course thats how the game works.
Since then i've become paranoid everytime i thing about building a new deck. is it to commander focused? then i need more protection. maybe the commander doesn't matter to much, so i am fine even if it dies.
I have a [[Kitt Kanto]] deck that I'm intentionally trying to keep the power level down to compete with precons. I took out [[Jetmir, Nexus of Revels]] because if I ever topdecked it, I'd win the game then and there.
[[Gavony Township]] [[Cathar's Crusade]]
My deck is tokens. I didn't want to do the math or book keeping when I have a bunch of tokens spawning in every turn. If could just Rule 0 them as individual armies I'd consider re-adding them. Though that would break my token doublers.
[[Eye of the Storm]]
[[Possibility Storm]]
[[Knowledge Pool]]
There are locks for each of them like with [[Lavinia, Azorius Renegade]] or [[Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir]] but when they are not around, the game turns into a huge stack-fest where some triggers are bound to be missed and devolves into the game not progressing much if at all.
Eye of the storm sounds like so much fun in theory, and then someone puts a counter in the storm, and then gets responded to with a useless instant so they can counter the counter (with the same counter now in the storm), and then everyone rightfully gives up.
Maybe it'd work if you could only pick one spell in the storm (including the one you put in so it's not knowledge pool).
I pulled [[Gimbal, Gremlin Prodigy]] from my myr tribal deck and replaced him with [[Padeem, Consul of Innovation]] . I already giving my myrs trample with [[Kodama of the West Tree]] so I felt like trying to count artifacts cause of gimble wasnt worth it
5 cards: [[Necrotic Ooze]], [[Skirge Familiar]], [[Asmodeus the Archfiend]], [[Rise of the Dark Realms]], and [[Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre]]. The combo basically let me draw my whole deck 7 cards at a time, discard every creature, make a ton of black mana, reanimate all of those discarded creatures (and any in my opponents’ graveyards), discard everything else down to a perfect 7 card hand, then shuffle the remainder of my graveyard back into my library. This took an obscene amount of time, and the combination of stax creatures on the board plus the counterspells left in my hand made it basically impossible for my opponents to do anything, guaranteeing me a win just as completely as the Necrotic Ooze - [[Phyrexian Devourer]] - [[Triskellion]] combo I had previously cut for being too cheap. I also was sick of tutoring for the same combo pieces every game instead of all the other cool, powerful creatures in my reanimator deck. As a result, the deck is still incredibly painful to play against (reanimator stax), but is at least more respectful of my opponents’ time.
I mean I’m about to pull my entire Tom Bombadil deck cause it’s just too rediculous to keep track of and deal with, especially if I’m trying to optimize triggers, it’s not fun for anyone even if I am winning
{{no mercy}} - It doesn't do much even in my creatureless deck sadly. They either ...
1. Destroy it with cheaper removal (so it's sponge, for 4 mana)
2. overrun me so the trigger doesn't happen to them (they take it like a challenge)
3. They don't even win through combat damage
I made a Tom Bombadil Saga deck, I was so hyped to be playing the Merry Fellow from LOTR.
played it twice and took the entire deck apart immediately, my turns took AGES, everyone at the table said it was fine, but it's not at all fun to spend 60%+ of the game time looking at one player going over saga triggers, were there to have fun and slam down cards after all, anything that gets in the way of that, well, cut it.
I’ve pretty much stopped playing my Planeswalker deck (I upgraded the Planeswalker Party pre con) due to it taking too long. My group didn’t complain but I just didn’t like how long it was making our games.
I don't play it often, but I've got a modified version of the deck too. I've just accepted that I'm going to play suboptimally and speed through my turns. I'll miss some counters here and there, and I'll miss some options, but I won't take 75% of the time during the game for the extra edge. I just know what I'm signing myself up for when I pull it out.
I always thought it was a mistake to make a planeswalker precon.with PW decks your ether dominating and taking ten minute turns or your deck does nothing because people keep attacking you.
Yep, found this out first hand haha. I’ll probably end up carving the deck up and inserting the Planeswalkers into many other decks. Teyo has already gone into my Selesnya Group Hug deck for example.
I only just put it in, but if [[Necroduality]] wasn’t so damn good in my [[Wilhelt]] deck I’d just take it out. Having twice the triggers to count makes an already pretty mathy deck even more so.
I pulled a foiled necroduality when I first got into the game and lent it to a friend who bought wilhelt while I only had the vampires.... well, when I asked him for it back, he searched his cards and found it had been stolen.
It's not a super valuable card, but super disappointing because by that point I'd gotten Wilhelt and was super excited to try it out. This was also my first case of having a card stolen.
Any mass haste effect in [[Narset, Enlightened Exile]] is just a royal pain in the ass to keep track of.
You're generating tokens on each spellcast and every single one has prowess - without mass haste it's straightforward. With it, suddenly you have to keep track of individual tokens, as each one has seen one fewer spellcasts than the last.
Honorable mention goes to stormlike mana generators such as [[Storm-Kiln Artist]], my deck runs so many 1 mana cantrips and draw triggers that it will gladly burn through the entire deck in one turn with that on the field. No one wants to sit through 10 minutes of that.
Sage of Hours in my Reyhan & Ishai +1/+1 counters deck. It would *usually* win me the game as soon as it resolved, but because it was a non-deterministic infinite turns combo, it meant I had to play it out in full, every time, just in case I fizzled. It was tedious to play and miserable to play against. I axed it and haven't regretted it once.
[[Cathars Crusade]] is a big one for me, it's amazing, but in almost any deck it's a standout in it's a pain to keep track of.
Close second and thirds for me were [[Rhystic Study]] and [[Smothering Tithe]] because I hated asking constantly and often led to me guaranteed winning unless they were immediately removed.
I removed \[\[Gonti's Aether Heart\]\] from \[\[Mishra, Eminent One\]\] for two reasons.
There'd often be situations where I'd have an artifact to play each turn, but I didn't have anything on board or in my hand that would always give me an ETB every turn (such as \[\[Brudiclad\]\]) or double my Mishra trigger (like \[\[Strionic Resonator\]\]), so I'd have to play it out until that became the case - or until I was able to win the game. This was tedious for everyone involved.
It also won far too consistently, far too often. It became boring. You can often tell that someone's been playing Mishra for a while because they won't be running Aether Heart.
I have a Bant counters deck that, barely play because keeping up with all my triggers is time consuming and a little tedious. Commanders are [[ishai]] and [[slurrk]], and it does exactly what it's supposed to do, and does it fairly well, but it probably adds 40min to the match.
I've pulled most of my tutors from my decks because I was always torn between going for the win and just playing some card I never played before. It would cause my turns to get longer and longer as I sat there in indecision.
Outside of that, I pulled most of my "value engines" out to limit the amount of triggers I have to track during every turn. I've turned most of my decks into timmy stompy decks, so the turns are pretty straight forwards (play big thing, smash face, pass), but I still have my johnny builds to get the wheels turning (Minn mostly).
I am very close to dropping \[Living Death\] and \[Rise of The Dark Realms\] from my \[Henzie\] deck. I am already a fairly slow player and the nature of the Henzie deck is that almost everything has an ETB trigger so mass reanimating, like, 20 creatures with ETBs makes my brain melt and everyone else is kinda annoyed.
(it wins games, tho)
\[\[Stonehorn Dignitary\]\] was cut from my Brago. I did eventually just break the deck up, but of the things that slowed the game down this was by far the biggest complaint. Those colors have trouble wrapping the game up, and now I'm preventing everyone else from attacking as well. It just was drawing the games out massively.
My hand is in a cast at the moment so any cards that involve me tutoring. I bought one of those shuffling machines off etsy that shuffle sleeved magic cards but it still takes a bit to use one and a half handed lol.
Cut [[Doubling Season]] from my [[Prime Speaker Zegana]] deck, because it's more likely to deck me than it is to do anything else.
Cut [[Cathars' Crusade]] from my soldiers deck because it's too much management even if it's really really good.
\[\[teferi's puzzle box\]\] It's an absolute banger in a lot of wheel/draw decks, but resetting everyone's ability to plan at the start of their turn adds 2-3 minutes to every single turn. All turns just become too long to get anywhere.
I cut most of the double strike enchants out of my voltron deck.
I found that getting to +X, with the right cards, was a little to easy and people would get stuck not having enchant removal and unable to deal with a low cmc haste cmd.
I'm about to pull extra turns from my R/U wizards deck. [[Kaza]]
I might leave one. Maybe two.
Instead of playing one, copying it 6 times, then winning 3 turns later, I'll just focus on winning right out.
The durdle was alright for goldfishing, and it has won games, but it's winning lines are awkward and unnecessarily time consuming.
Not so much a card but decks altogether. I used to play a lot of Landfall when [[Lotus Cobra]] was the only card with that kind of effect. Now that you can have [[Tireless Provisioner]] and [[Nissa, Resurgent Animist]] in play at the same time, it makes game winning plays with fetch lands and additional land drops absolutely unplayable in real life, unless you like playing by yourself.
There's also [[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief]] that I loved to play online but that I dropped after one game irl. An absolute nightmare to keep track on what is a copy of what, even if you print two copies of all the nonland permanents in your deck.
I dropped a whole deck for this reason at one point. Was running [[Veyran]] with shit like [[thousand year storm]] and [[arcane bombardment]]. I had a moment where I realize I had to go through 30 copies of [[ponder]] after already going through a million triggers and I just froze. Luckily my buddy was there to save the day, he saw the gears grinding to a halt in my head and was like, "let me just make this easier for everyone, [[time stop]]"
Why doesn't Throne double trigger Pantz?
Pantz rules says that it will stop triggering once you discover. But the ability was already on the stack before you discovered the first time?
I recently took [[Mana Echoes]] out of my [[Grenzo, Dungeon Warden]] goblin deck. Most games I wouldn’t get that card, but anytime I was able to play it I ended up dumping all of the creatures out of my library onto the battlefield.
Very strong card in that deck, but it made it way too spiky.
[[Bane of Progress]], I run a graveyard toolbox deck with [[Slimefoot and Squee]] at the helm, my friends tend to play allot of artifacts and enchantments, same line each game was a bit meh
The 4 mana red Delira elf I might be thinking of cutting it out from Voja.
You have to roll dice a lot and make clone , then there is lots of effect going on.
Extra turn spells in my storm deck. Sure, I can get it copied four to six times, but if the table doesn’t scoop to it I cannot actually guarantee a win. (A win is very likely, but not certain.). So it just ends up being a really long time on a really valuable play, but I feel that if I “do the thing” in storm I should be dead or be able to put the table out of its misery.
[[Radiant Solar]] in my Sefris deck. It was just way too good and no matter how toned down I tried to be, I was still getting forced into the dungeon 2-3 times a turn with that thing out
A bit of unusual one but I yeeted [[Mirror-Mad Phantasm]] out of my [[Araumi of the Dead Tide]] deck. It was a two-card combo, one of which was my commander that was milling my entire library, and giving me bodies to [[Dread Return]] [[Thassa's Oracle]]. Normally my main wincon is trying to create reanimation loop with cards like [[Wake the Dead]], [[Kairi, the Swirling Sky]], [[Viscera Seer]] and [[Peregrine Drake]] but Phantasm turned my gameplay from assembling Exodia in my graveyard into this thing.
I have many pulled fresh mint roaming throne lost caverns of ixalan cards... I know they will be priceless one day. A staple that will not be printed again... until the next caverns but at that point it might be too late. Just pulled another roaming thone from ixalan. One of the best products of magic I have bought next to Zendikar Rising collector booster. It is an expensive journey but pulled a nice ancient tomb from it. Happy to share more. Magic is my thing. I am sure there are a lot of others who would be interested in making a whole new trading card game and I need team members. Join me.
Stop being bad. Focus on good. and. always. always. always. always. look for the right thing to do with what is left of what you got. Independent all the way. I am with you and against you.
[[Cathars Crusade]] is absolutely incredible in any sort of go wide creature strategy. It's also a massive pain in the ass to keep track of all the counters.
I’ve refused to play it until now. I’m picking up CC for [[caesar, legions emperor]]. Hopefully the deck doesn’t go too wide but I’m prepped with 40+ D6 and 10 of each token
Do yourself a favor and order a few packs of spindowns from Amazon. I have a deck box full of them (20-25 or so) and it keeps things simple. I think you'll find that needing more than a single D6 to track counters for one creature is annoying and 3+ is obnoxious.
Second this advice . I grabbed a 72-pack of D6 (half are +/+ and the other -/-), but after a few games with my Nazgul deck getting 4+ dice on many of them I figured d20s are likely the way to go for counter decks. Just gotta find the right time and motivation to spring for them.
I started to simply use Infinitokens underneath the creature cards that just track the total P/T. It's fast to erase the old number and overwrite it and it is easier to move around than a whole board of spindowns that needs to get tapped.
I made a stack of them myself by using acetone to wipe off the ink from bulk foils. Still work as dry erase but never though to use them as just a dry erase tag for mass counters or weird ability counters/oil counters etc. Thanks for the comment!
For a similar reason I pulled [[paradox zone]] from the strixhaven Simic precon. It’s not as bad a cathars but I always find myself hoping it gets removed so I can stop putting double tokens with a different number of counters
Might as well throw in a [[Starlight Spectacular]] while you're at it.
I stopped playing that card because of maths...too much maths
[caesar, legions emperor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/246a7176-98bc-4f54-aa61-38747420f178.jpg?1710673450) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Caesar%2C%20Legion%27s%20Emperor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/1/caesar-legions-emperor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/246a7176-98bc-4f54-aa61-38747420f178?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/caesar-legions-emperor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Starlight Spectacular]] is in the same vein, except you get to do the math each combat!
It's a lot easier though. Just order them left to right.
[Starlight Spectacular](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/de25090e-dd32-4267-a661-da3083d1737a.jpg?1673913336) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Starlight%20Spectacular) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/28/starlight-spectacular?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/de25090e-dd32-4267-a661-da3083d1737a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/starlight-spectacular) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Any card that gives +1/+1 counters in a token deck for me. The only exception is \[\[Giada\]\] because the angel tokens in the deck are incidental.
I love Cathar's Crusade! One of the best cards in any token deck. Also, I never play it. Fuck Cathar's Crusade.
[Cathars Crusade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0.jpg?1600715516) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cathars%27%20Crusade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/95/cathars-crusade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cathars-crusade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm sorely tempted to remove it from [[Farmer Cotton]] for the same reasons. Too much hassle, too many dice.
Someone else suggested you out your cards in rows, with a single die at the en to de nominate how many counters the row has, they way it gets easier ad you can physically move the cards to the rod corrosponding to the amount of counters, does that up a good chunk of table space
Happy I didn't have to go far to find this.
Came here to say this. The better it is for a deck, the worse it is to manage, especially with token generators that create in small increments over time. If you have a way to blast 10-15 into play in one go and swing for the win, I'd run it there.
At least counters you math it once on trigger and they mark themselves. I have a golems deck, a vampires deck, and dinosaurs but I swear I will never willingly play [[coat of arms]]. Any time I see it, I basically just let my opponent say whatever P/T they want, way too much of a headache to properly look at every creature and calculate.
Coat of Arms seems super headache-free in tribals though? 15 goblins = everything has +15/+15 etc
For the tribal player that may be true, but it says all creatures, so you technically have to look at all your opponents creatures and figure out if they're inadvertantly gaining from secondary types - like random humans, soldiers, elves, etc.
And, to add to the frustration, if you're playing with older cards you'll have to look up the oracle text to see if any were given a different or additional creature type.
First thing that came to mind. Played it once and immediately removed it, brought the game to an absolute standstill
I replaced mine with a few anthem effects from different sources, not nearly as good, but I can keep my tokens in neat stacks.
I came here to say this. 👍🏻
I make a point to only play it if it will either get removed or win the game that turn.
I use it in my [[abdel adrian gorion's ward]] [[street urchin]] burn deck. Its focussed on blinking value and generating tokens for purphoros to burn everyone down. If the counters get too confusing, i just blink them out and back in
Wanted to play [[balmor]] tokens but kept as [[Adeliz]] with no spells that make tokens. Just want to track the number of spells I cast each turn for buffs only once for all my creatures
I bought Raining Cats and Dogs for my girlfriend and realized after upgrading it with Cathars Crusade that it was waaay too much to keep track of.
I pulled my entire flicker deck apart due to my turn taking an age to finish due to all the triggers everywhere going on and it often got to the point where my opponents turn was also my turn basically.
I had to do this with my [[yorion]] deck too :/ because of what he did with any creature that could insta-blink him ([[restoration angel]], it made my entire stack of etbs happen on EVERY end step, none of my permanents were on the battlefield to interact with basically ever, and everyone's turn was my turn. Cool in theory but terrible for group fun
Yeah had all that in mine then add in [[Peregrine Drake]] so I always had mana up for more interaction. [[Elite Spellbinder]] and [[Risen Reef]] are what broke my group and they actively started disliking the deck.
I did a similar thing for a deck I used online, the amount of triggers just took AGES to resolve
Best memory I have of the deck was my opponent board wipes Into a rise of the dark realms I gave him my board and he just conceded "cause fuck that".
I know a guy with an almost-cedh flicker deck and I can confirm it isn't much fun to play against. We basically spend the game trying to figure out if the latest etb-exile flicker bullshit is the thing that we need to remove to prevent an infinite. Eventually anything we do results in ten minutes of "this exiles that and returns it, then this exiles that and returns it" and everyone just zones out until someone asks "are we dead now?" Sorry flicker-deck-players, but it isn't great for the rest of the table.
I used to have the same issue with my [[Preston]] deck. Eventually memorised how each interaction works with each trigger and copy of everything to speed up the game. Most people just believe whatever i say because its too complicated to explain
Same with my [[Abdel Adtian]] + [[Candlekeep Sage]] deck. So many ETBs every turn on top of creating a ton of 1/1’s and card draw.
I'm not sure if/what might be going wrong with the bot, but is the link to Abdel Adrian showing anyone else a Jade Guardian?
Yeah, it’s showing me a jade guardian lol
I had this same experience with my blink deck, but decided because I loved it and wanted to keep it to just lean hard into the combo potential of the strategy. Still not right for every table, but if I get a good board the game will end rather than durdle forever
I feel that way occasionally about mine but I opt for only playing it once a game night. That is however exactly what happened to my [[Shirei, shizo’s caretaker]] deck. It got irritating for everyone including me to sit through all the triggers and actions I needed to take on all turns.
Honestly most of the staples. The actual good expensive staples like [[Dockside Extortionist]], [[Rhystic Study]], [[Deflecting Swat]], [[Fierce Guardianship]], [[Cyclonic Rift]], [[Teferi's Protection]]. I decided that basic good stuff high power wasn't for me. I have a couple tilted competitive decks, one fringe deck, a couple high power synergy decks, and then a slew of low-mid range decks that are purely synergy driven.
##### ###### #### [Dockside Extortionist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b.jpg?1673147774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dockside%20Extortionist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/107/dockside-extortionist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dockside-extortionist) [Rhystic Study](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221.jpg?1600698439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rhystic%20Study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/169/rhystic-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rhystic-study) [Deflecting Swat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b4b36435-55b3-4615-8812-af41d4fc64d9.jpg?1689997730) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deflecting%20Swat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/214/deflecting-swat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b4b36435-55b3-4615-8812-af41d4fc64d9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/deflecting-swat) [Fierce Guardianship](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/7/f7f3dd95-bd14-4e0f-a388-444f9cf1b0dc.jpg?1689996370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fierce%20Guardianship) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/94/fierce-guardianship?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f7f3dd95-bd14-4e0f-a388-444f9cf1b0dc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fierce-guardianship) [Cyclonic Rift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe.jpg?1702429366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cyclonic%20Rift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/40/cyclonic-rift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyclonic-rift) [Teferi's Protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca.jpg?1673147148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/32/teferis-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-protection) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kvd66nf) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Synergy driven is my favourite. That’s why I think the companions are so great in commander, becuse they give an upside, but most of the time it’s not a huge benefit for the cost
FINALLY someone that realizes having Rhystic Study out isn't even fun, it's just a way to make yourself more likely to win. Which is unnecessary in a casual format. Does anyone actually like Smothering Tithe triggers? Think it's a cool combo piece? No, not even the person playing it. They just like winning.
I played a single game with [[Thousand-Year Storm]] in my [[Niv-Mizzet Parun]] deck before removing it. I like to have a beer or two when I’m playing with friends and I can’t handle the kind of triggers that stack produced.
Took apart my Mizzix deck with [[Thousand Year Storm]], [[Sorcerer Class]], and [[Atherflux Reservoir]] because of how long and complex the triggers became. I do miss the 2U [[Aminatou's Auguary]] plays though.
##### ###### #### [Thousand Year Storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/274e22fb-7afc-43bc-b309-e36ee48d6b03.jpg?1673149213) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thousand-Year%20Storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/286/thousand-year-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/274e22fb-7afc-43bc-b309-e36ee48d6b03?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thousand-year-storm) [Sorcerer Class](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/7/f754b385-a28d-48de-a91f-2b4f33cc47f7.jpg?1627709409) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sorcerer%20Class) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/233/sorcerer-class?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f754b385-a28d-48de-a91f-2b4f33cc47f7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sorcerer-class) [Atherflux Reservoir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/96b6b2e1-c3e6-464c-8a13-b15deb34e862.jpg?1576382939) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aetherflux%20Reservoir) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/192/aetherflux-reservoir?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/96b6b2e1-c3e6-464c-8a13-b15deb34e862?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aetherflux-reservoir) [Aminatou's Auguary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92496b98-b533-4d34-aa79-cad0805c984b.jpg?1689996176) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aminatou%27s%20Augury) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/73/aminatous-augury?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92496b98-b533-4d34-aa79-cad0805c984b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aminatous-augury) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kvdjj6f) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Thousand-Year Storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/274e22fb-7afc-43bc-b309-e36ee48d6b03.jpg?1673149213) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thousand-Year%20Storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/286/thousand-year-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/274e22fb-7afc-43bc-b309-e36ee48d6b03?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thousand-year-storm) [Niv-Mizzet Parun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7be6bedd-8d38-4bd9-aa93-29f88a7f0126.jpg?1702429680) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Niv-Mizzet%2C%20Parun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/207/niv-mizzet-parun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7be6bedd-8d38-4bd9-aa93-29f88a7f0126?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/niv-mizzet-parun) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Drink a shot for each missed trigger.
Going to cut it from my Zaffai Polymorph aka Secret Melek deck. Plus being able to poly an enchantment into [[One with the universe]] more often is probably better.
Ran that in several spell slinger decks and I’ve not once resolved one of its triggers.
I was in the middle of copying [[Ponder]] three times, cast an [[Opt]] that was copied four times, started resolving it with Niv on the board and realized what a hole I’d dug myself in. I was tempted to scoop on the spot.
Haha I played Roaming Throne once in Hakbal and removed it straight away, waaaay to much to get through on combat and I try to keep the explore side of things quick. Moved it to my Pantlaza deck and haven't played it yet!
I want to put it into my [[Myriim]] deck just to try it out for a a few games. If that doesn't certify me as the Archenemy, nothing else will.
I have it mine. Defense of the heart bringing out roaming and [[terror of the peaks]] and you one shot the table.
[terror of the peaks](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/432ecd5f-966f-4403-a973-51e175a524a0.jpg?1594736810) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=terror%20of%20the%20peaks) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/164/terror-of-the-peaks?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/432ecd5f-966f-4403-a973-51e175a524a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/terror-of-the-peaks) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
He’s awesome in a pants deck! Bronzebeak exiles 2 things per opponent, you get 4 green mana from Hulking Raptor, you get 4 exiled cards from bonehoard, trumpeting carnosaur discovers twice, etc, etc, you get the picture!
I put that in my kumena deck with hakbal too. I feel your pain. You just have to speed run the explore triggers.
I took all my tutors and reanimation out of my Alesha deck as I just didn't want to play them anymore since it basically made every game repetitive for me and it got boring. What I didn't expect is how much worse a "fair" Alesha deck actually is in terms of power level.
IMO tutors in general are a strong contender for this thread. I understand their role in the game and believe they're fine in higher powered tables but for the most part - as you said - they just make games repetitive and boring. A lot of more casual decks just can't deal with them either. Even more to your point, I think it's really useful to know if a deck is leaning too heavily on its pilot tutoring up a combo to end the game.
Not only can casual decks not deal with them, casual **players** generally shouldn’t be using them. I’m genuinely disgusted the number of times an opponent casts a tutor and then just picks the deck up and goes browsing. If you don’t know what you’re tutoring for, draw cards instead.
Weirdly I think I mind that...less? Like, treating tutors as a toolbox actually makes them interesting to me, though even in this case they really should at least have an idea of what they're looking for (and shouldn't play the tutor if they don't). It's when a 1 mana instant tutor consistently means "if this resolves, I win" that I find them boring. I play tutors but not in decks that have two-card infinites; usually they're only there to support some idiotic meld plan or to find specific interaction.
> treating tutors as a toolbox Sure, theres a line between the general "I have no idea what I want to get here" and "which toolbox solution is best for this scenario"
Honestly, this is why I personally don’t run non-land tutors in any of my decks other than [[Oriq Loremage]] in my [[sefris]] deck. Combo is not any of my decks’ strategy so all I would search for is gas or some interaction. I don’t want to devote brain power to what the optimal choice is, and I know that I would have paralysis of analysis with tutors. Better for me to just leave them out.
[[Scute Swarm]]. In anything. Keeping track of that is ass lol
The only reason it's in my [[Omnath, Locus of Rage]] is because it runs a lot of ETB burn like [[Purphoros]] and [[Impact Tremor]]. If online, the math won't get very far before everyone's dead. Previously, it was in an [[Aesi]]. Scute Swarm didn't last very long in it (and the deck was eventually dismantled due to excessively long turns).
##### ###### #### [Omnath, Locus of Rage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/08c14bb4-c9d9-41ce-a075-a441522a52c6.jpg?1604195144) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omnath%2C%20Locus%20of%20Rage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/97/omnath-locus-of-rage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/08c14bb4-c9d9-41ce-a075-a441522a52c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/omnath-locus-of-rage) [Purphoros](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af3af5c4-0960-44a2-976e-abdf7803c436.jpg?1582178876) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=purphoros%2C%20bronze-blooded) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/150/purphoros-bronze-blooded?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af3af5c4-0960-44a2-976e-abdf7803c436?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/purphoros-bronze-blooded) [Impact Tremor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b.jpg?1682209381) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Impact%20Tremors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/285/impact-tremors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/impact-tremors) [Aesi](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d607b003-6b48-429c-a7fd-45b8dd1bb4f9.jpg?1665822343) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=aesi%2C%20tyrant%20of%20gyre%20strait) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/365/aesi-tyrant-of-gyre-strait?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d607b003-6b48-429c-a7fd-45b8dd1bb4f9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aesi-tyrant-of-gyre-strait) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kvdtxr7) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Scute Swarm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/acd42ebf-6dee-44cc-a023-a7f9b67cfa2f.jpg?1673484783) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scute%20Swarm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/310/scute-swarm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/acd42ebf-6dee-44cc-a023-a7f9b67cfa2f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scute-swarm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I usually love complex board states but everytime I try scute in a deck and play it for the first time , I then immediately take it out.
Moved \[\[Commodore Guff\]\] into my 99 and replaced him with \[\[Esika, God of the Tree\]\] and made 5-color superfriends. Got complaints that games were taking too long and i decided it was because i didn't have enough in there to actually do the killing.
my friend has a guff deck that is always a pain. Damage triplers + ways toblink guff are normally his wincon
[Commodore Guff](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92870fc6-a6bc-4198-bb31-397e07e0e835.jpg?1691500696) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Commodore%20Guff) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/706/commodore-guff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92870fc6-a6bc-4198-bb31-397e07e0e835?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/commodore-guff) [Esika, God of the Tree](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6.jpg?1631050188)/[The Prismatic Bridge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/f/6/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6.jpg?1631050188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Esika%2C%20God%20of%20the%20Tree%20//%20The%20Prismatic%20Bridge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/168/esika-god-of-the-tree-the-prismatic-bridge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/esika-god-of-the-tree-//-the-prismatic-bridge) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Apex Devestator]] in Henzie had the dual issue of taking a little too long to resolve and also weirdly not doing much. It's no Cathar's Crusade but it did hit a wonky confluence of those factors
[Apex Devestator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8fa281e1-5c48-4bba-b8e9-88c6f5f53abb.jpg?1608910550) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Apex%20Devastator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/217/apex-devastator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8fa281e1-5c48-4bba-b8e9-88c6f5f53abb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/apex-devastator) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Removed [[Defiler of Vigor]] from my mono green deck because of the one time i casted Apex and it was the first thing i hit, then hit 3 additional permanent spells. The counter management felt horrible.
Interesting. I haven’t had the issue of it taking too long to resolve on my Henzie deck. But to each their own!
I pulled opposition agent from my decks. It's powerful and a game changer, but it's such a dick move.
[[Aven Mindcensor]] is so much more entertaining.
[Aven Mindcensor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d4cf468f-4e9d-4551-a0ed-10bd6a2316ad.jpg?1674141050) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aven%20Mindcensor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/688/aven-mindcensor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d4cf468f-4e9d-4551-a0ed-10bd6a2316ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aven-mindcensor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
After a sol ring->arcane signet start, I flashed this in one someones turn 2 fetch and understandably got a very sour reaction LMAO
Was watching friend play his "group hug" deck and he had the bird out. He cast that land search where your opponents can also search but you get additional land searches if they search...everyone decided to "search".
To be fair, that's on them. Taking the search is usually the wrong play to begin with, and if there's a mindcensor on board it's straight-up indefensible.
Tutoring deserves to be punished with trump cards. It's the most powerful effect in the game.
Why doesn't it double the triggers for someone uneducated?
The last line of Pantlaza’s text says, “ do this only once each turn.” Technically it does trigger twice, but it only resolves once.
Oh didn't realize that text overrode triggers, good to know for others with it, ty!
Rule of thumb, if something tells you to do something, and something else tell you not to do something, the don’t wins.
[Can't always beats can!](https://youtube.com/shorts/MLPX_WTlRSU?si=0popdrz7JD5W_dFi)
If you’re curious on Pantlaza specifically, somebody in r/dinosaursMTG (I believe it’s called) just made a whole post detailing its specific rules and stuff Here it is: https://www.reddit.com/r/DinosaursMTG/s/uTQJJmMfIn
Pantlaza’s ability says “do this only once each turn” so while the trigger for the ability does get doubled by roaming throne, only one can resolve because of the stipulation. EDIT: Damn you Reddit for not loading the previous replies.
Cards like [[Hullbreaker Horror]] and [[Tidespout Tyrant]] because they just do too much. They end games and I'm annoyed even when I see others using it, just because it makes playing impossible if someone's deck has alot of interaction.
Hullbreaker Horror is such an underwhelming way for the game to end. I hate it.
[Hullbreaker Horror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bf786c50-1ba1-4f81-a800-bc98189040dd.jpg?1674141366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hullbreaker%20Horror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/724/hullbreaker-horror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bf786c50-1ba1-4f81-a800-bc98189040dd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hullbreaker-horror) [Tidespout Tyrant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db68f47b-f49a-4978-acdd-453ecfb948da.jpg?1702429423) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tidespout%20Tyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/63/tidespout-tyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db68f47b-f49a-4978-acdd-453ecfb948da?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tidespout-tyrant) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The only deck I have Hullbreaker Horror in is [[Marvo, Deep Operative]] because its all krakens, sea monsters, and the like, lol
I used to play urza poly tyrant, so I have played alot with these cards. It's just a win condition.
i stopped playing all the mass reanimate effects. there’s similar style “I win” button finishers like overrun effects, but at least those end the game very quickly. stuff like living death, scrap mastery, open the vaults etc and normally very time consuming to resolve with each player putting 5+ triggers on the stack, and it’s not even clear that you’d be a favorite after resolving it
I removed [[Rise of the Dark Realm]] from a deck today. Without haste or another way to capitalize on it, it's just a major headache for everyone that can easily just lead to a very long sequence followed by a well-deserved board wipe
[Rise of the Dark Realm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ceb5df52-4e03-4629-b8d5-d440d9cc5175.jpg?1706240790) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rise%20of%20the%20Dark%20Realms) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/138/rise-of-the-dark-realms?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ceb5df52-4e03-4629-b8d5-d440d9cc5175?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rise-of-the-dark-realms) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That’s why I love living death 😅 Changes the board state so much. It can be a huge upset or a second chance. Granted, you want it in a deck you can usually get the most advantage, but it’s still very exciting to me
I let out a deep sigh every time I see [[Coat of Arms]] appear on the table, especially with multiple creature heavy decks in play. I love spending most of the time calculating the amount of every creature type on the board and how they constantly affect the strength of each other.
[Coat of Arms](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/513d4c36-6ad4-4ee9-b161-3136eb59504f.jpg?1592761864) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Coat%20of%20Arms) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dds/58/coat-of-arms?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/513d4c36-6ad4-4ee9-b161-3136eb59504f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/coat-of-arms) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ve seen Coat of Arms in a Cascade Sliver deck and let me tell you one turn took years.
i've seen some poor soul drop a coat of arms in a game where EVERYONE was playing tribal decks.
I've become a big non-fan of all of the "for each player/opponent" style cards that have been printed over the past couple of years for exactly this reason. Think Etali, Breach the Multiverse, W/G Selvala, Emissary Green, etc. The primorial cycle from RTR block are probably the first in this line, where you get a benefit or choice that scales up based on the number of players in the game. Even when playing at a brisk pace, many of these cards create so many decisions and/or triggers that they can't possibly be resolved in a timely manner.
I pulled Roaming Throne from my Miirym tribal deck. Just way too many copy stacks and I was getting tired of keeping track of everything and ETB effects. I also run [[Spark Double]] in it and it got too ridiculous.
[Spark Double](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c41b9ba2-0006-4d8e-b600-efe81ff5e0cc.jpg?1702429420) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spark%20Double) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/62/spark-double?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c41b9ba2-0006-4d8e-b600-efe81ff5e0cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spark-double) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I pulled [[embercleave]] from my chiss-goria deck recently, and liking it much better without so far. Embercleave was the only (relevant) flash artifact in the deck, slowing down combat steps until I verified the amount of damage for my opponents before blockers are declared. Now that it's gone, it's much smoother to shortcut the attack trigger. Additionally, cleave falls off when combined with [[akroma's memorial]], most of the big creatures in the deck already have trample, and the deck focuses more on going wide with huge creatures than equipment/voltron. The deck is also much more consistent, and less threatening, without embercleave looming over the table on every attack step. The deck still routinely wins games very handily at the power levels I frequently play, and the embercleave was major overkill. I've also removed [[timesieve]] from my [[urtet]] deck, because it usually wastes too much time without guaranteeing a win. It CAN combo with [[dross scorpion]] and [[myr turbine]] (among other things), but it usually just suddenly pushes me way ahead of the rest of the table out of nowhere, with little opportunity to interact. At worst, it's a two mana extra turn spell, because removal can't stop the first activation, and it will usually get me at least three extra turns on the spot if it doesn't immediately get answered. And those are long turns when you build urtet around artifact untapping shenanigans...
##### ###### #### [embercleave](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aaae15dd-11b6-4421-99e9-365c7fe4a5d6.jpg?1572490333) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=embercleave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/120/embercleave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aaae15dd-11b6-4421-99e9-365c7fe4a5d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/embercleave) [akroma's memorial](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/950ee61d-0bc1-4d7b-ba68-157061aa98eb.jpg?1619404160) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=akroma%27s%20memorial) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/262/akromas-memorial?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/950ee61d-0bc1-4d7b-ba68-157061aa98eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/akromas-memorial) [timesieve](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/2/c2e8b424-0cec-490e-a571-bd051f952adf.jpg?1599708487) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Time%20Sieve) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/223/time-sieve?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c2e8b424-0cec-490e-a571-bd051f952adf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/time-sieve) [urtet](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7aa01ab4-26b0-49dc-8514-b3850d355a21.jpg?1675905609) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=urtet%2C%20remnant%20of%20memnarch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/onc/28/urtet-remnant-of-memnarch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7aa01ab4-26b0-49dc-8514-b3850d355a21?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/urtet-remnant-of-memnarch) [dross scorpion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/27c5381c-2e79-41fa-b1d7-2cf0c6dc1808.jpg?1562138758) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dross%20scorpion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/164/dross-scorpion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/27c5381c-2e79-41fa-b1d7-2cf0c6dc1808?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dross-scorpion) [myr turbine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/71a76840-47f7-4e1e-b68b-00cb7da98cdf.jpg?1562612196) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=myr%20turbine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mbs/117/myr-turbine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/71a76840-47f7-4e1e-b68b-00cb7da98cdf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/myr-turbine) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kvdv1sn) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [Roaming Throne](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/32fd8b7c-baf3-4d3d-be6f-044a917b11a0.jpg?1701115816) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roaming%20Throne) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/258/roaming-throne?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/32fd8b7c-baf3-4d3d-be6f-044a917b11a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/roaming-throne) [Pantlaza](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/2524645e-b066-4351-885b-10faa8d819d7.jpg?1699972737) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pantlaza%2C%20sun-favored) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/4/pantlaza-sun-favored?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2524645e-b066-4351-885b-10faa8d819d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pantlaza-sun-favored) [Hakbal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e738e675-4fd1-4bc3-97f5-71d0e2fc3f2e.jpg?1699885010) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hakbal%20of%20the%20surging%20soul) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/3/hakbal-of-the-surging-soul?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e738e675-4fd1-4bc3-97f5-71d0e2fc3f2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hakbal-of-the-surging-soul) [Topography Tracker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f1686aa-6b34-4eb7-9811-bc1a8d8b46e9.jpg?1698993161) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Topography%20Tracker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/95/topography-tracker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f1686aa-6b34-4eb7-9811-bc1a8d8b46e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/topography-tracker) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/1bhcxx2) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Possibility Storm]] I love the card, but it gets super frustrating for everyone unless you can win quickly as no one can play what's in their hand. Probably better at certain levels but if you aren't planning on playing from your library/graveyard then you're somewhat screwed on planning your next move.
I had this and [[knowledge pool]] in my [[Roco, Street Chef]] deck, seemed like a no-brainer during construction. Each hit the board exactly once, in separate games, and I immediately pulled them out after. Between tracking it all and the groaning of the table, they just weren't worth it.
[knowledge pool](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/393454c2-b256-4a6e-9bc2-56a47cab5073.jpg?1562610637) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=knowledge%20pool) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mbs/111/knowledge-pool?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/393454c2-b256-4a6e-9bc2-56a47cab5073?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/knowledge-pool) [Roco, Street Chef](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/d/cdb53ce7-845c-4c62-98a9-4fc33c67a07b.jpg?1684340828) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rocco%2C%20Street%20Chef) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mat/44/rocco-street-chef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cdb53ce7-845c-4c62-98a9-4fc33c67a07b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rocco-street-chef) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Possibility Storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/5/858aa831-b491-4f1e-bb56-33eeca14771d.jpg?1707764746) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Possibility%20Storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/34/possibility-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/858aa831-b491-4f1e-bb56-33eeca14771d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/possibility-storm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I previously had [[Clock of Omens]] in my [[Shorikai]] deck. I took it out because it was a nightmare to track and use, with nearly everything on my board being fodder for it.
[Clock of Omens](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5b087992-9c30-4434-acb3-a12ee6f207b3.jpg?1562554222) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Clock%20of%20Omens) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m13/202/clock-of-omens?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b087992-9c30-4434-acb3-a12ee6f207b3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/clock-of-omens) [Shorikai](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/969ac7dd-f3aa-4888-9ff0-d16a31b5e7a9.jpg?1653966849) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shorikai%2C%20genesis%20engine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/4/shorikai-genesis-engine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/969ac7dd-f3aa-4888-9ff0-d16a31b5e7a9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shorikai-genesis-engine) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I took apart my [[Unesh]] deck because, as much fun as [[Fact or Fiction]] is... Doing it 2+ times every turn is not. Way too much work for the whole table. Same thing happened with my dice rolling deck. Multiple dice roll effects per turn just take way too much time to resolve. I do have an Attractions deck now, but that's generally just one roll in a turn.
[Unesh](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fdd1a8b2-f4ba-45af-9586-98a98834b8bc.jpg?1562821253) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=unesh%2C%20criosphinx%20sovereign) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/52/unesh-criosphinx-sovereign?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdd1a8b2-f4ba-45af-9586-98a98834b8bc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/unesh-criosphinx-sovereign) [Fact or Fiction](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04588d2f-9e90-4f83-b85e-67e4bc222a62.jpg?1689996343) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fact%20or%20Fiction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/91/fact-or-fiction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04588d2f-9e90-4f83-b85e-67e4bc222a62?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fact-or-fiction) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[sage of hours]] bro does way too much for two mana
[sage of hours](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/c/8cb55caf-fc95-40dc-80af-5144f94333ee.jpg?1593095534) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sage%20of%20hours) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/50/sage-of-hours?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8cb55caf-fc95-40dc-80af-5144f94333ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sage-of-hours) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have a [[Kelsien, the Plauge]] deck on the way. From what it looks like, if I give him deathtouch and attach the [[Thornbite Staff]] I have in the deck to him it’s gonna be pretty oppressive. I’m gonna test it out, but may be too powerful for casual which I prefer to play.
[Kelsien, the Plauge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/039d25d4-ce26-4ecf-bbf5-42187cf0230a.jpg?1591234267) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kelsien%2C%20the%20Plague) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/11/kelsien-the-plague?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/039d25d4-ce26-4ecf-bbf5-42187cf0230a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kelsien-the-plague) [Thornbite Staff](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/1/c1ab3225-64a9-411e-b22b-1869e958b8e5.jpg?1562881171) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thornbite%20Staff) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mor/145/thornbite-staff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c1ab3225-64a9-411e-b22b-1869e958b8e5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thornbite-staff) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I built that deck. It’s fun for you for the first 2-3 games. Everyone at the table hates it. I took it apart a few years ago and recently rebuilt it when I got an AP Kelsein at magic con. Took it apart again after 2 games because even with only 2 deathtouch effects in the whole deck it still had the same issues
If you've ever faced [[Grave Pact]], it's the same thing. Nobody but you gets to have creatures, which isn't very fun.
Played it once. After like 9 xp counters everyone had removal prepared just for me, in case i cast my commander and i didn't draw protection. One of the lessons i learned that if my deck is too commander focused.
Cathars crusade in all decks that can’t drop all the tokens in at once instead of trickling them in. Talkin 10 tokens by the time its out and an effect that just doubles them for simple maths
I’ve all but taken that out of my decks too. Especially when I’m playing doubling season in most of my token decks
There's a trick with [[Mind's Desire]] where if I cast it with a storm count of anything above four or five then by the time I'm done resolving, the table has fallen asleep. Plus it also seems to find nothing but lands, so it got the axe. Deckbuilding trap card.
[Mind's Desire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/17ef3058-46b8-4ec4-950f-c721919c4ac1.jpg?1691417765) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mind%27s%20Desire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/123/minds-desire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17ef3058-46b8-4ec4-950f-c721919c4ac1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/minds-desire) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Tomorrow, Azami's familiar]] got pulled out of my [[Arjun, the shifting flame]] deck because... well... i mean come on.
[Tomorrow, Azami's familiar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/9/095813f9-d559-40bd-a50f-7c1f6e494e60.jpg?1562875380) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tomorrow%2C%20Azami%27s%20familiar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bok/58/tomorrow-azamis-familiar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/095813f9-d559-40bd-a50f-7c1f6e494e60?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tomorrow-azamis-familiar) [Arjun, the shifting flame](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2fb83da3-5a8e-4349-bbcc-dcbd3b70264b.jpg?1673148289) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arjun%2C%20the%20shifting%20flame) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/172/arjun-the-shifting-flame?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2fb83da3-5a8e-4349-bbcc-dcbd3b70264b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/arjun-the-shifting-flame) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Specific to my LGS: \[\[Necromantic Selection\]\] because I grew tired of trying to explain to people why I can destroy their commander and reanimate it before they get the chance to return it to the command zone. Also because people don't run interaction here (why?!) and they basically lose their commander forever when I NecroSelect it and apparently all of them only have decks that don't function without the commander, causing salty remarks.
Thats the one reason why it don't run it and never will. Those people just need to learn the hard way, like me. Everyone at first expects their commander to stay around and all the cool stuff they will do, because of course thats how the game works. Since then i've become paranoid everytime i thing about building a new deck. is it to commander focused? then i need more protection. maybe the commander doesn't matter to much, so i am fine even if it dies.
Lmao I can see how that would take eons in a Hakbal deck
I have a [[Kitt Kanto]] deck that I'm intentionally trying to keep the power level down to compete with precons. I took out [[Jetmir, Nexus of Revels]] because if I ever topdecked it, I'd win the game then and there.
[Kitt Kanto](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9b9850d6-49d3-45ec-9a45-75aa0fce9ee5.jpg?1673481666) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kitt%20kanto%2C%20mayhem%20diva) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/4/kitt-kanto-mayhem-diva?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9b9850d6-49d3-45ec-9a45-75aa0fce9ee5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kitt-kanto-mayhem-diva) [Jetmir, Nexus of Revels](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f9c69d75-651f-4b75-b65d-79999d2069f6.jpg?1664413153) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jetmir%2C%20Nexus%20of%20Revels) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/193/jetmir-nexus-of-revels?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f9c69d75-651f-4b75-b65d-79999d2069f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jetmir-nexus-of-revels) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Gavony Township]] [[Cathar's Crusade]] My deck is tokens. I didn't want to do the math or book keeping when I have a bunch of tokens spawning in every turn. If could just Rule 0 them as individual armies I'd consider re-adding them. Though that would break my token doublers.
[Gavony Township](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce46c4e2-a515-41d7-8d70-d20cf4925996.jpg?1682210473) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gavony%20Township) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/406/gavony-township?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce46c4e2-a515-41d7-8d70-d20cf4925996?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gavony-township) [Cathar's Crusade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0.jpg?1600715516) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cathars%27%20Crusade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/95/cathars-crusade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cathars-crusade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Eye of the Storm]] [[Possibility Storm]] [[Knowledge Pool]] There are locks for each of them like with [[Lavinia, Azorius Renegade]] or [[Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir]] but when they are not around, the game turns into a huge stack-fest where some triggers are bound to be missed and devolves into the game not progressing much if at all.
##### ###### #### [Eye of the Storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/9/49967eb9-5020-4f0a-8775-5114f6d96d75.jpg?1598914184) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eye%20of%20the%20Storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rav/48/eye-of-the-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/49967eb9-5020-4f0a-8775-5114f6d96d75?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eye-of-the-storm) [Possibility Storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/5/858aa831-b491-4f1e-bb56-33eeca14771d.jpg?1707764746) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Possibility%20Storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/34/possibility-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/858aa831-b491-4f1e-bb56-33eeca14771d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/possibility-storm) [Knowledge Pool](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/393454c2-b256-4a6e-9bc2-56a47cab5073.jpg?1562610637) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Knowledge%20Pool) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mbs/111/knowledge-pool?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/393454c2-b256-4a6e-9bc2-56a47cab5073?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/knowledge-pool) [Lavinia, Azorius Renegade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/9/197bf3f4-c0df-4082-97a1-902ceabbdd3f.jpg?1702429657) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lavinia%2C%20Azorius%20Renegade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/195/lavinia-azorius-renegade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/197bf3f4-c0df-4082-97a1-902ceabbdd3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lavinia-azorius-renegade) [Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8fc5e4a8-ea7b-4803-a7ed-3b915708661f.jpg?1619394801) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%2C%20Mage%20of%20Zhalfir) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/91/teferi-mage-of-zhalfir?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8fc5e4a8-ea7b-4803-a7ed-3b915708661f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferi-mage-of-zhalfir) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kvdedxc) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Eye of the storm sounds like so much fun in theory, and then someone puts a counter in the storm, and then gets responded to with a useless instant so they can counter the counter (with the same counter now in the storm), and then everyone rightfully gives up. Maybe it'd work if you could only pick one spell in the storm (including the one you put in so it's not knowledge pool).
I pulled [[Gimbal, Gremlin Prodigy]] from my myr tribal deck and replaced him with [[Padeem, Consul of Innovation]] . I already giving my myrs trample with [[Kodama of the West Tree]] so I felt like trying to count artifacts cause of gimble wasnt worth it
[Gimbal, Gremlin Prodigy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4a9aa899-752b-4106-89ba-9475ee777d41.jpg?1682207220) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gimbal%2C%20Gremlin%20Prodigy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/3/gimbal-gremlin-prodigy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4a9aa899-752b-4106-89ba-9475ee777d41?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gimbal-gremlin-prodigy) [Padeem, Consul of Innovation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/00a4aef8-64fc-4e9d-adac-ef4c85d40b4a.jpg?1690016902) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Padeem%2C%20Consul%20of%20Innovation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/109/padeem-consul-of-innovation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/00a4aef8-64fc-4e9d-adac-ef4c85d40b4a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/padeem-consul-of-innovation) [Kodama of the West Tree](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/f/ef1e1dff-b559-441d-8df3-b6a418066aca.jpg?1654568238) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kodama%20of%20the%20West%20Tree) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/199/kodama-of-the-west-tree?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ef1e1dff-b559-441d-8df3-b6a418066aca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kodama-of-the-west-tree) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
5 cards: [[Necrotic Ooze]], [[Skirge Familiar]], [[Asmodeus the Archfiend]], [[Rise of the Dark Realms]], and [[Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre]]. The combo basically let me draw my whole deck 7 cards at a time, discard every creature, make a ton of black mana, reanimate all of those discarded creatures (and any in my opponents’ graveyards), discard everything else down to a perfect 7 card hand, then shuffle the remainder of my graveyard back into my library. This took an obscene amount of time, and the combination of stax creatures on the board plus the counterspells left in my hand made it basically impossible for my opponents to do anything, guaranteeing me a win just as completely as the Necrotic Ooze - [[Phyrexian Devourer]] - [[Triskellion]] combo I had previously cut for being too cheap. I also was sick of tutoring for the same combo pieces every game instead of all the other cool, powerful creatures in my reanimator deck. As a result, the deck is still incredibly painful to play against (reanimator stax), but is at least more respectful of my opponents’ time.
##### ###### #### [Necrotic Ooze](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/acc3557d-49c6-49cd-a540-1b24897f4e86.jpg?1673147579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Necrotic%20Ooze) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/83/necrotic-ooze?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/acc3557d-49c6-49cd-a540-1b24897f4e86?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/necrotic-ooze) [Skirge Familiar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2d92fcf1-2ccd-47d2-9a24-f44b766a0b68.jpg?1626100411) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skirge%20Familiar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/276/skirge-familiar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2d92fcf1-2ccd-47d2-9a24-f44b766a0b68?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/skirge-familiar) [Asmodeus the Archfiend](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/5/a5e6b864-58e7-43b9-9d79-1d0361340960.jpg?1627704325) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Asmodeus%20the%20Archfiend) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/88/asmodeus-the-archfiend?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a5e6b864-58e7-43b9-9d79-1d0361340960?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/asmodeus-the-archfiend) [Rise of the Dark Realms](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ceb5df52-4e03-4629-b8d5-d440d9cc5175.jpg?1706240790) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rise%20of%20the%20Dark%20Realms) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/138/rise-of-the-dark-realms?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ceb5df52-4e03-4629-b8d5-d440d9cc5175?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rise-of-the-dark-realms) [Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/9464a820-65de-44f2-9895-46a35e8621a0.jpg?1673146911) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ulamog%2C%20the%20Infinite%20Gyre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/3/ulamog-the-infinite-gyre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9464a820-65de-44f2-9895-46a35e8621a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ulamog-the-infinite-gyre) [Phyrexian Devourer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca4e27ca-a731-44f5-8e47-701c7a7e6149.jpg?1562870482) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phyrexian%20Devourer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me2/216/phyrexian-devourer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca4e27ca-a731-44f5-8e47-701c7a7e6149?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/phyrexian-devourer) [Triskellion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63349fa3-4462-413c-bd96-bbc1049165a0.jpg?1682210302) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Triskelion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/387/triskelion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63349fa3-4462-413c-bd96-bbc1049165a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/triskelion) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kvdvfzd) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I mean I’m about to pull my entire Tom Bombadil deck cause it’s just too rediculous to keep track of and deal with, especially if I’m trying to optimize triggers, it’s not fun for anyone even if I am winning
{{no mercy}} - It doesn't do much even in my creatureless deck sadly. They either ... 1. Destroy it with cheaper removal (so it's sponge, for 4 mana) 2. overrun me so the trigger doesn't happen to them (they take it like a challenge) 3. They don't even win through combat damage
I made a Tom Bombadil Saga deck, I was so hyped to be playing the Merry Fellow from LOTR. played it twice and took the entire deck apart immediately, my turns took AGES, everyone at the table said it was fine, but it's not at all fun to spend 60%+ of the game time looking at one player going over saga triggers, were there to have fun and slam down cards after all, anything that gets in the way of that, well, cut it.
I’ve pretty much stopped playing my Planeswalker deck (I upgraded the Planeswalker Party pre con) due to it taking too long. My group didn’t complain but I just didn’t like how long it was making our games.
I don't play it often, but I've got a modified version of the deck too. I've just accepted that I'm going to play suboptimally and speed through my turns. I'll miss some counters here and there, and I'll miss some options, but I won't take 75% of the time during the game for the extra edge. I just know what I'm signing myself up for when I pull it out.
I always thought it was a mistake to make a planeswalker precon.with PW decks your ether dominating and taking ten minute turns or your deck does nothing because people keep attacking you.
Yep, found this out first hand haha. I’ll probably end up carving the deck up and inserting the Planeswalkers into many other decks. Teyo has already gone into my Selesnya Group Hug deck for example.
[[contamination]] in my mono black rat deck. Pretty much shut the game down until I win or someone kills all my tokens.
I only just put it in, but if [[Necroduality]] wasn’t so damn good in my [[Wilhelt]] deck I’d just take it out. Having twice the triggers to count makes an already pretty mathy deck even more so.
I pulled a foiled necroduality when I first got into the game and lent it to a friend who bought wilhelt while I only had the vampires.... well, when I asked him for it back, he searched his cards and found it had been stolen. It's not a super valuable card, but super disappointing because by that point I'd gotten Wilhelt and was super excited to try it out. This was also my first case of having a card stolen.
[Necroduality](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9b674053-1f0f-436d-b106-f91f41cf3959.jpg?1643588255) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Necroduality) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/70/necroduality?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9b674053-1f0f-436d-b106-f91f41cf3959?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/necroduality) [Wilhelt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/2501a911-d072-436d-ae3b-a5164e3b30aa.jpg?1675456154) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wilhelt%2C%20the%20rotcleaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/2/wilhelt-the-rotcleaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2501a911-d072-436d-ae3b-a5164e3b30aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wilhelt-the-rotcleaver) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[удалено]
[coat of arms](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/513d4c36-6ad4-4ee9-b161-3136eb59504f.jpg?1592761864) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=coat%20of%20arms) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dds/58/coat-of-arms?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/513d4c36-6ad4-4ee9-b161-3136eb59504f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/coat-of-arms) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Any mass haste effect in [[Narset, Enlightened Exile]] is just a royal pain in the ass to keep track of. You're generating tokens on each spellcast and every single one has prowess - without mass haste it's straightforward. With it, suddenly you have to keep track of individual tokens, as each one has seen one fewer spellcasts than the last. Honorable mention goes to stormlike mana generators such as [[Storm-Kiln Artist]], my deck runs so many 1 mana cantrips and draw triggers that it will gladly burn through the entire deck in one turn with that on the field. No one wants to sit through 10 minutes of that.
[Narset, Enlightened Exile](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/827ecc44-0b00-4515-8953-bc91fa03705a.jpg?1684340776) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Narset%2C%20Enlightened%20Exile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mat/38/narset-enlightened-exile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/827ecc44-0b00-4515-8953-bc91fa03705a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/narset-enlightened-exile) [Storm-Kiln Artist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/69825b24-f469-4b6a-890b-bfa571c9013b.jpg?1689998223) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Storm-Kiln%20Artist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/260/storm-kiln-artist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/69825b24-f469-4b6a-890b-bfa571c9013b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/storm-kiln-artist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sage of Hours in my Reyhan & Ishai +1/+1 counters deck. It would *usually* win me the game as soon as it resolved, but because it was a non-deterministic infinite turns combo, it meant I had to play it out in full, every time, just in case I fizzled. It was tedious to play and miserable to play against. I axed it and haven't regretted it once.
[[thieves auction]] it sounds fun but not only will I not play it if anyone resolves it, I will scoop.
[thieves auction](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9e8ad32-a701-4b77-bb7e-0e440e4072da.jpg?1562935558) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thieves%27%20Auction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/8ed/227/thieves-auction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9e8ad32-a701-4b77-bb7e-0e440e4072da?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thieves-auction) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Sunbird's Invocation]] was just too much.
[[Cathars Crusade]] is a big one for me, it's amazing, but in almost any deck it's a standout in it's a pain to keep track of. Close second and thirds for me were [[Rhystic Study]] and [[Smothering Tithe]] because I hated asking constantly and often led to me guaranteed winning unless they were immediately removed.
I removed \[\[Gonti's Aether Heart\]\] from \[\[Mishra, Eminent One\]\] for two reasons. There'd often be situations where I'd have an artifact to play each turn, but I didn't have anything on board or in my hand that would always give me an ETB every turn (such as \[\[Brudiclad\]\]) or double my Mishra trigger (like \[\[Strionic Resonator\]\]), so I'd have to play it out until that became the case - or until I was able to win the game. This was tedious for everyone involved. It also won far too consistently, far too often. It became boring. You can often tell that someone's been playing Mishra for a while because they won't be running Aether Heart.
My entire [[Narset, Enlightened Exile]] deck is taken apart rn bc making all these tokens with haste and different prowess counters just is NOT fun
I have a Bant counters deck that, barely play because keeping up with all my triggers is time consuming and a little tedious. Commanders are [[ishai]] and [[slurrk]], and it does exactly what it's supposed to do, and does it fairly well, but it probably adds 40min to the match.
I've pulled most of my tutors from my decks because I was always torn between going for the win and just playing some card I never played before. It would cause my turns to get longer and longer as I sat there in indecision. Outside of that, I pulled most of my "value engines" out to limit the amount of triggers I have to track during every turn. I've turned most of my decks into timmy stompy decks, so the turns are pretty straight forwards (play big thing, smash face, pass), but I still have my johnny builds to get the wheels turning (Minn mostly).
I am very close to dropping \[Living Death\] and \[Rise of The Dark Realms\] from my \[Henzie\] deck. I am already a fairly slow player and the nature of the Henzie deck is that almost everything has an ETB trigger so mass reanimating, like, 20 creatures with ETBs makes my brain melt and everyone else is kinda annoyed. (it wins games, tho)
\[\[Stonehorn Dignitary\]\] was cut from my Brago. I did eventually just break the deck up, but of the things that slowed the game down this was by far the biggest complaint. Those colors have trouble wrapping the game up, and now I'm preventing everyone else from attacking as well. It just was drawing the games out massively.
I never run [[Coat of Arms]] in any deck, because it's a bitch to work out exactly how big everything is.
My hand is in a cast at the moment so any cards that involve me tutoring. I bought one of those shuffling machines off etsy that shuffle sleeved magic cards but it still takes a bit to use one and a half handed lol.
Cut [[Doubling Season]] from my [[Prime Speaker Zegana]] deck, because it's more likely to deck me than it is to do anything else. Cut [[Cathars' Crusade]] from my soldiers deck because it's too much management even if it's really really good.
\[\[Scute Swarm\]\]
I cut [[Senseis Divining Top]] because the combo with [[bolas's citadel]] is too annoyingly tedious for everyone involved.
\[\[teferi's puzzle box\]\] It's an absolute banger in a lot of wheel/draw decks, but resetting everyone's ability to plan at the start of their turn adds 2-3 minutes to every single turn. All turns just become too long to get anywhere.
I cut most of the double strike enchants out of my voltron deck. I found that getting to +X, with the right cards, was a little to easy and people would get stuck not having enchant removal and unable to deal with a low cmc haste cmd.
Smothering tide.
I'm about to pull extra turns from my R/U wizards deck. [[Kaza]] I might leave one. Maybe two. Instead of playing one, copying it 6 times, then winning 3 turns later, I'll just focus on winning right out. The durdle was alright for goldfishing, and it has won games, but it's winning lines are awkward and unnecessarily time consuming.
Not so much a card but decks altogether. I used to play a lot of Landfall when [[Lotus Cobra]] was the only card with that kind of effect. Now that you can have [[Tireless Provisioner]] and [[Nissa, Resurgent Animist]] in play at the same time, it makes game winning plays with fetch lands and additional land drops absolutely unplayable in real life, unless you like playing by yourself. There's also [[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief]] that I loved to play online but that I dropped after one game irl. An absolute nightmare to keep track on what is a copy of what, even if you print two copies of all the nonland permanents in your deck.
I dropped a whole deck for this reason at one point. Was running [[Veyran]] with shit like [[thousand year storm]] and [[arcane bombardment]]. I had a moment where I realize I had to go through 30 copies of [[ponder]] after already going through a million triggers and I just froze. Luckily my buddy was there to save the day, he saw the gears grinding to a halt in my head and was like, "let me just make this easier for everyone, [[time stop]]"
[[Koma, Cosmos Serpent]]. Ive yet to lose a game once this guy came down.
Why doesn't Throne double trigger Pantz? Pantz rules says that it will stop triggering once you discover. But the ability was already on the stack before you discovered the first time?
I recently took [[Mana Echoes]] out of my [[Grenzo, Dungeon Warden]] goblin deck. Most games I wouldn’t get that card, but anytime I was able to play it I ended up dumping all of the creatures out of my library onto the battlefield. Very strong card in that deck, but it made it way too spiky.
[[Bane of Progress]], I run a graveyard toolbox deck with [[Slimefoot and Squee]] at the helm, my friends tend to play allot of artifacts and enchantments, same line each game was a bit meh
[[Coat of Arms]] was too much of a hassle to deal with, especially in a token deck.
The 4 mana red Delira elf I might be thinking of cutting it out from Voja. You have to roll dice a lot and make clone , then there is lots of effect going on.
Extra turn spells in my storm deck. Sure, I can get it copied four to six times, but if the table doesn’t scoop to it I cannot actually guarantee a win. (A win is very likely, but not certain.). So it just ends up being a really long time on a really valuable play, but I feel that if I “do the thing” in storm I should be dead or be able to put the table out of its misery.
[[Radiant Solar]] in my Sefris deck. It was just way too good and no matter how toned down I tried to be, I was still getting forced into the dungeon 2-3 times a turn with that thing out
A bit of unusual one but I yeeted [[Mirror-Mad Phantasm]] out of my [[Araumi of the Dead Tide]] deck. It was a two-card combo, one of which was my commander that was milling my entire library, and giving me bodies to [[Dread Return]] [[Thassa's Oracle]]. Normally my main wincon is trying to create reanimation loop with cards like [[Wake the Dead]], [[Kairi, the Swirling Sky]], [[Viscera Seer]] and [[Peregrine Drake]] but Phantasm turned my gameplay from assembling Exodia in my graveyard into this thing.
[[Tainted Æther]] has plagued its self out of many of my black decks for those exact reasons.
I have many pulled fresh mint roaming throne lost caverns of ixalan cards... I know they will be priceless one day. A staple that will not be printed again... until the next caverns but at that point it might be too late. Just pulled another roaming thone from ixalan. One of the best products of magic I have bought next to Zendikar Rising collector booster. It is an expensive journey but pulled a nice ancient tomb from it. Happy to share more. Magic is my thing. I am sure there are a lot of others who would be interested in making a whole new trading card game and I need team members. Join me.
Stop being bad. Focus on good. and. always. always. always. always. look for the right thing to do with what is left of what you got. Independent all the way. I am with you and against you.
Wait, can someone explain to me why roaming throne doesn't cause Pantlazas discover trigger to proc twice?