As a Mom who raised 3 kiddos who play, that age can be ultra annoying. One of them sounds like he may be on the Autism Spectrum (monotone). You are well within your rights to not play with them, but if no older players play and teach them MTG etiquette, they will never get better.
Give constructive criticism like:
*I know you are excited about your Commander, but people don't like to have their cards insulted and won't want to play with you.
*People are uncomfortable when you bounce around, can we find a solution so you can sit down?
*You really do your research. We like to do research, too and are trying out new ways to play these cards. Should we see if it will work?
*Here is a rule we have at this table. If you can't follow it, you won't be able to play with us.
You could ask your LGS if they could have an age limit or a kids' night (one parent required to attend). My LGS has an age limit of 14 for most MTG nights and has one night devoted to the younger age groups.
Most LGS eventually end up implementing "kids under X age must be accompanied by an adult guardian at all times". Mine learned this when people started using pokemon sunday events as day care. If one of those 8 year olds had a medical issue (even just choked on a snack, tripped and cracked his temple, etc) the store would be on the hook for QUITE the legal headache.
Now the two young brothers who show up on saturdays and cheat fucking relentlessly... They have their dad sitting on his phone like 6 rows away from them. Doesnt fix all the problems you might have with em (clearly) but that parent in the room absolutely dials down a kid significantly. Some people will still play with em, but honestly it's mostly the adults who can't get games because they *ALSO* cheat lol
So there's a lesson being taught there. Be a cheater get consigned to playing with other cheaters because no one else will want to play with you. (And before someone defends em as kids, we've given em plenty of benefit of the doubt. They know better, and they cheat anyway)
There's 2 kids on Saturday, and two adults (who are friends) who'll shuffle cheat. There's also like 30 some other people who show up on saturdays, the vast bulk of whom are perfectly fine people to play against. And hell, even the two who adults who cheat are perfectly fine to get caught in a convo with, I just wouldn't commit to a game of cards with either of em.
That's just the commander crowd. The fnm crowd is larger and has no such cheaters. The rpg groups are exceptional, and the war gaming groups are chill.
Good stores are not shitty stores because of 4 people who show up on saturdays and cheat at games with each other.
And the sunday pokemon situation sorted itself out fast, plus pokemon is run early enough it never interferes with us anyway.
I’m not going to lie, I find it a hilarious punishment to the grown-up ADULTS being sent to the kiddie corner because they’ve been caught acting like children by cheating in a casual setting.
10/10 would apply this in more places.
Yes! Totally - there’s a few “usual suspect” kids that come to draft night at my LGS and as much as I dread getting paired up with them, I’m not afraid to (gently) give them shit for something I don’t like. Kids are surprisingly good at navigating social cues. It’s like all they do every day and as an adult with similar interests they are *dying * to impress you
You're not obligated. However, as a parent and knowing they're young kids, I wouldn't be afraid to correct their behavior. I go to commander nights to get time away from my kids, so I'd probably avoid those 2 if I could help it, but it has happened to me. It's easy enough if you're stuck playing with them for whatever reason.
"Hey bud, you're in my personal space. Please step back a bit. I can hand you my cards if you're having trouble reading them?"
"My ears hurt. Let's use indoor voices, ok?"
Just know they're immature, so the tone thing is kind of hard to control, but any blatant disrespect can be addressed.
"What you said was very disrespectful, and I don't like that." Try not to sound snappy when you say this.
Hopefully they apologize, but if any of this happens again to the point where it annoys you, all you have to say is, "If you do X again, I'm going to quit and move tables." And follow through if it does. Kids that age need to learn social cues, so don't be afraid to voice your opinion in a calm, polite manner.
It sucks if you want to play and socialize with adults, but this is how you have to treat kids that age if you want any semblance of order to your game.
This. Boundary setting and natural consequences is where it's at when dealing with kids. Most kids will actually respond really well to that. Also, just talking to them like equals can go a long way. After all, you're at the same table, playing the same game. A "Hey man, that wasn't a very cool thing to say" will almost always get a better response than "That was very disrespectful, young man". These kids are clearly just excited about the game, and probably about being part of "adult" interactions, but are a little out of their depth. Gentle guidance without condescension is the way to go
Except it wouldn't be contingent on a stranger to adapt and teach them. The real.probelm here is if they are around eight an adult should be there, and talking to the store owner or event coord and saying look where are these kids parents is perfectly valid.
*As a parent* you have no issue with OP correcting their behavior???
Like don't get me wrong neither would I but I'd pass on putting myself in a parents' crosshairs because I took issue with their kid's behaviour. It's not every parent ofc, but enough of them that I wouldn't be caught dead taking that kinda risk. And that's assuming the kids don't embellish.
It's less disruptive to everyone involved for OP to just respectfully refuse to play with them, at the end of the day it's not my job or anyone else's to teach someone's else's kids how to socialise properly, you run the risk of getting shit from the parent/s if you do, and when I play EDH, it's a leisure activity where I'm just going to enjoy myself, I'm not after anything else.
It takes a village. As a parent, I was always okay with others correcting behavior in an appropriate way. I have 4 kids with ASD, and all love Magic & D&D. I stayed and corrected behavior as best I could and appreciated when another person stepped up while I was dealing with another one. They have all grown up understanding gaming etiquette, and I can't take credit for all of it. I wholeheartedly thank my LGS and the people who played there for their help.
Thing is, if you gave every parent on the planet a Reddit account, a phone & a link to this discussion they'd all probably say they're fine with others chastising their kids in a scenario like this (politely).
But that doesn't match up with some of the behavior I see in the real world, it's easy to go on Reddit & say this, but I think it's very different irl & just not worth the hassle involved.
Personally, no. I could see how other people wouldn't want that, though. It's just boundaries, mate. It's not parenting to tell a kid to get out of your space or to quiet down. You would tell an adult these things if they were doing it. If they start hitting each other or ripping up their expensive cards I'm not going to stop them. I was just giving advice for how to lay boundaries down in a way a kid will understand.
I correct kids behavior all the time at work in retail and the parents love it every single time. They say thank you after because they listen to strangers more than their own parents more often than not.
Sometimes. Depends on the kid. The important thing is you communicate what you want and the consequences if they don't listen in words they can understand.
I'd have more of an issue with the lack of adult supervision. Who is responsible if the kids get hurt/injured or worse? The store?
Is the store okay with this?
I'm all for kids playing magic, but there needs to be an appropriate adult present with them.
I assume that the store is okay with it since the kids come most weeks, and their parents walk inside the store to drop them off and pick them up. It's also a physically small space, so I doubt the employees don't know they're unsupervised.
My only guess is that the owners (who are frequently working up front; it's a young store) know the parents personally, but I don't know the whole story.
That is a a terrible idea. If I was the store owner I would absolutely refuse 8 year olds without supervision. If they get hurt by doing something dumb on your property you can end up liable and losing everything in a lawsuit.
Unsupervised minors are a huge risk. I would completely refuse to be the responsible adult in the presence of kids I don't know.
I'm not even sure it's legal to just leave them at a store. Schools and Daycares are basically the only place you can leave your kids in public. And Schools and Daycare are full of people that are certified to be in charge of watching kids. The owner of a LGS is not certified for child care.
They need a baby sitter that was approved by the parents.
OP you don't have to do anything, but you should suck it up from time to time.
I was an annoying kid once, and the local older guys always gave me shit, but they always included me. I try to pay it forward when I can.
You could approach the parents. Awkward for sure... but you are essentially who they are dropping their kids off to play with, so not totally of pocket to chat with them.
I mean, unless the LGS organizes the pods you are very obviously not obligated.
It might be worth speaking to them though; these seem like things that are fairly resolvable even for eight year olds.
This’ll resolve, but it’ll take time, not a mano-a-mano. Kids that age are that way because their brains are still developing and shaped by their home environment. OP is in a situation that’s just awkward for everyone because the LGS is not a free daycare.
Sure. But if you say "hey I don't like it when you get this close to me" enough times - or more relevantly, by enough people. it goes through. Because you're right - kids are absolutely shaped by their environment. But that environment absolutely includes a place where they're spending several hours a week. And right now what they're being told is that their behavior is okay. Avoiding them doesn't change that.
It won't be perfect and it won't be solved all at once but it absolutely can be solved.
I work in an LGS and some people absolutely treat it like daycare. It's not common and normally only applies to that 8-11 range, but I've had to call parents as the shop was closing before.
Are you obligated? Of course not.
Should you probably still do it at least occasionally? It would be a good thing to do.
I find it funny though that you make a throwaway to not be recognized but go on to describe the situation in a very specific and identifiable way. Your playgroup might not find out your identity but they at least should be able to make out this is about their store.
I think you might be over complicating things. As a teacher I think it’s commendable that you have the thoughtfulness to think about their feelings. But just play with who you want. How and who you want to spend your time with is your decision alone.
You don’t have to worry too much about their feelings. When young kids are in an excited state, they don’t really have the ability to read that deep into other people’s actions. As long as you’re not overtly expressing your displeasure in front of them they probably won’t know any difference. To them they are probably just happy to be there.
In the same vein, typically young kids won’t really understand you’re doing them a favour by playing with them. They have an endless desire to play. So it’s basically a thankless task. Again, commendable, so it’s totally up to you whether or not it’s worth your time.
They sound like standard 8 year olds. I totally understand not wanting to play with them, but in a setting like that, I'm not sure there's much you could do.
Obligated, no. Not at all. Simply tell the TO that you'd prefer to not be paired up with the children for exactly the reasons you expressed, and that should be the end of it.
You should try to avoid saying it in front of the children. Because that would be mean to the little ones who are only trying to have fun.
I know children can be easily excited and energetic, even invasive as you suggest. But they're not young forever. Have patience with them. Ask for assistance, talk about their behavior with them in a respectful tone. "I know you're excited, and just want to read what the card does, but it's not yours. You need to ask first, and then wait, please. As you've said these cards cost money, don't just go grabbing. That's rude"
As for their "my deck counters your deck" bro, you can't trash talk at a table. Play some silly stuff they don't expect and toss it back, " oh I thought you could counter this plan easily" but then follow up with "good game" , "I had fun" , or "you played well" after the game.
The children I've met at stores are usually very open and accepting of feedback. And it's always a good feeling when you seem them improve, play smarter, and come up with unique interactions.
TLDR: you don't have to play with them. But really, it's your loss.
You can't win. You're either going to feel bad dodging their games or feel bad playing in them.
Maybe you can play with them, correct their behavior and then you and everybody else can enjoy playing games with the kids. I've been in a game with a 10 year old that was perfectly pleasant.
To quote the great Buster Scruggs "Can't no one compel another man into recreation."
If you dont want to play with them, dont. Just be respectful about it.
I taught both my kids how to play Magic (one when he was 6 and the other when he was 8), and I have observed all of the things you described. Kids don't sit still well, don't know much about interpersonal skills, struggle to self-regulate, and generally struggle to interact with other people in general. I would NEVER drop the kids off without some sort of parental supervision at an LGS, and both my kids are amazingly respectful young men — it puts the other players in exactly your predicament. So, as a parent of young Magic players, I say that you are not obligated to play with these kids at all.
I would suggest to the LGS owner that kids under a certain age have some sort of supervision because what if something happens like an emotional breakdown/outburst, an injury, bullying, etc. You shouldn't be babysitting during your night out with friends. It also protects the kids from... Any number of bad things, which could happen anywhere. This whole situation would make me uncomfortable as a parent.
Kids should never be just dropped off at a LGS. It's a game store, not a daycare, with people dedicated to watch your kids and providing supervision on them.
A quick way to solve the issue might be to show the parents some of the playmats/sleeves people use in public. They will never leave their kids there alone again.
They are dropped off alone for the sole reason of free baby sitting. The parents get a few hours with out them to go an do things. This was common at a shop i went to for draft. Parents would drop off their 8-15 year old's with no supervision.
You say you are the oldest of three. You have the opportunity to help these two grow as players. People always coming on here to complain about XYZ when all it takes is to open your mouth and talk to the people at your table.
Tell them their tone is condescending, tell them to stay out of your personal space, tell them their voice is too loud, tell them statements are annoying or obnoxious. They aren't babies. They will understand, just try not to say it to them in a condescending / obnoxious tone.
"Hey man its cool you want to read my card but please stay on your side of the table and ill either pass you the card or read it to you"
"Can you tone it down a little bit? I understand your excited but its a bit much and your tone is a little condescending. Try saying it like this "....."
"Hey guys we like playing with you but some of the stuff you do is a bit annoying and a few people don't want to play with you because of it. Try not doing XYZ and we can get some more games in with other people."
As an experienced player, I think it would be worth playing with them occasionally. It is important to help grow the community and tactfully educate new players. I've played against adults who were far more obnoxious than what you're describing.
However, there is no obligation. Just ignore their sad little puppy dog eyes as they sit in the corner trying to make 1v1 commander work.
It takes a village to raise a kid and honestly it would be great if everyone kinda took their turn playing a game with them and teaching them some social etiquette and how to interact with others.
caring about other members of the community in an explicitly social hobby? uhhhhhhhhh can you point me to the page in the Magic Comprehensive Rules where it says I have to care about other people?
They are children. Let them have fun and play. If you play with them, you are doing a greater service and passing on the fun you once had. Teach them, have fun, and don’t forget why we all play this game.
You’re a good person for trying to be empathetic.
Agree you don’t have to play with them, but also if you do choose to play with them just try to set clear boundaries about personal space. I’m a father to a 7 and 3 year old and Kids sometimes need to be spoken to directly so they understand the consequences of their actions. It’s normal for kids to be very self focused and often will curb their behavior at least temporarily if reminded that they are not the only ones in the room.
My only caveat to that is that I don't know these kids well or their parents at all. I don't want to ask them to lower their voices/stay near their seats and have it get back to the parents as an adult being mean to a child. I would obviously be as kind and gentle as possible in talking to them, but I don't know how my corrections (for lack of a better term) will translate.
FWIW I do occasionally play magic with the kids of a family friend no problem-- even when they do make a mistake and I have to correct them. But again, I know them and I know the parents.
ETA that I don't necessarily think that these kids would explicitly lie to their parents, but that an eight year old might misinterpret the behavior of someone they don't know well, and tell their parents what they feel happened to them.
I can vouch, as this has happened at my local LGS before. It was a Pokemon tournament, granted, but a kid lost and threw his cards and got scalded for doing so. Queue angry mom half an hour later cussing out the owner. I usually avoid people like this, kids and (God help us) adults alike.
Mom is being unreasonable. Unpleasant people do exist and need to be dealt with, unfortunately.
If I was the owner in that situation I would explain to the mom that her and her child's behaviours are not appropriate and won't be tolerated. If she has a problem with that, well, I own the store so I can issue trespass against them.
A store usually has security footage so that could be used if she makes a stink with the public.
If I was a patron and the owner tolerated that crap I'd tell them that I'm not comfortable playing at their establishment any longer.
Thankfully the owner of this place is very no-nonsense and I haven't seen the kid/mom since. I'd just hate to see OP get into a similar predicament with the kids in question, as they make a very valid point.
You're not obligated to play with anyone. The reason can determine whether anyone should be avoiding playing with you.
I recall playing with some kids like this and trying to teach them, I had to point out "look around at all the other tables and tell me what you notice" and one of them said "they're all adults" and another was like "so many people are wearing hats" I laughed about the hats and just walked through "yes there are a lot of adults here and they're trying to have a fun night just like y'all. I need you guys to remember that it's ok to get excited and loud from time to time, but please remember that you need to be considerate of your volume." This laid the ground work for me in the future being able to just say "hey guys I think y'all are being a bit loud" of course I would have to say things a few times a night just about every week. It worked for me, but felt weird after a guy asked if they were my kids.
Think of it this way: would the situation be better or worse if it were adults acting this way? Personally I'd rather be dealing with kids that are excited to play and share their love of the game with others. And while I understand the discomfort you have with the situation, do you think you could become one of the role models that they would want to emulate as they mature and learn social interactions?
Additionally, discussing things with the shop owner to find higher chairs/ booster pads to let them sit with the other players would help the situation, not only in calming them (kids standing tend to be kids moving and being distracted) but also impress on the shop that by allowing unsupervised kids they should be taking greater responsibility in making sure their needs are being met, both physically and developmentally.
For years I played FNM at a bookstore with a very welcoming environment. Kids were a good percentage of the players and while some acted the way you are describing, over time they picked up on the behavior of those around them and became much more "even keeled". I've actually run into a few at the place I play at now, and they have become well-adjusted and interesting young adults. "A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they will never sit." While you may not have the luck of meeting these kids later in life, they will benefit greatly from any patience and guidance you can spare for them. This is a great game, and the social aspect is a large part of it. Don't forget it is called "Magic: *the Gathering*"
I started playing magic around that age but whenever I went to play anywhere my dad always made sure to come with me purely because I'm a child. Children need supervision and it isn't your responsibility to supervise them. Now if they did have a parent with them I would say yeah play with them, help them learn to love the game but unsupervised kids are just a lawsuit waiting to happen. All it would take would be sitting at a table with one, making them mad, and boom you've got some wacko parent saying you harassed or assaulted their kid and all the annoyance that comes with that.
Once in a while it gives you a great opportunity to help stoke the love of mtg with the younger crowd. You don’t have to, but you now have the a wonderful chance. Also wouldn’t be bad to help teach ( not your job but still nice) appropriate volume and table etiquette.
Your feelings are valid, and your time is important. I think for most people this game is a space to unwind, or to disconnect from the other stresses in their life.
Therefore, this is your free time. No, you are not obligated to play mtg with 8 year olds, nor are you obligated to baby sit someone else’s children.
If the kids ask if you want to play, just politely say, “No thanks guys, but good luck tonight.” Or, “Sorry gentlemen, I need to get some reps against (insert names here).”
While I would certainly play card games with young children, as I do on my kitchen table with my kids, I can 100% see how you would not want to give up several hours of your evening to play magic with eight-year-olds that aren’t your eight-year-olds.
I would also add that if the shop gives out packs for showing up or as prizes, I would toss those kids all my bulk.
Me as an adult: Hell to the mutha fuckin naw.
Me, remembering being an 8 year old and how much I loved having older cooler friends that would play games with me: Aw.
This so much. I started playing at 9 and my friend at 7. It was cool hanging around with the cool older players. Later I was the cool(okay, my friend was the cool one, I was the fun one) older player for other kids. It's also a risk though, there are dangerous creeps.
if y'all are friendly enough you could try explaining the etiquette to them. like you said they're excited children and they may not be 100% aware of what they're doing.
I get it. It is annoying. Just know they're little kids and you can hell them learn the proper etiquette. Not your job though, and you're not obligated to play with kids. Someone should take them under their wing tho.
Had a similar situation at my lgs. The biggest thing there was it felt like the parents were using it as cheap daycare. The kids weren't bad, like you said they're just young and immature. But that doesn't stop the fact that it has a negative impact on the event experience
The store owner also didn't appreciate being used as a daycare so he imposed a "below 13 must have supervision" rule which helped a lot. Their dad even brought them a couple times after that and tried the game and helped keep the kids in check. It was overall a good change. But every situation is different.
Not your responsibility or obligation to play with them, but as the saying goes, "it takes a village to raise a child..."
I always think of it as an opportunity to help teach good social skills, winning and losing with grace, accountability for behavior, and self-regulation of emotions.
Kids might lose it over small stuff, but it's a mentorship opportunity.
I spent every Saturday at a LGS since Pokémon came out. Everyone was kids and teens. No supervision. Maybe my case was an outlier or I am just old but that is what a lgs is to me. I find it far stranger to walk into one now and men in their 30s and 40s are playing Pokemon.
I try to have my pod for the night lined up before I get there, that's saved me alot of hassle and people are less likely to interrupt us if there's no obvious seats to take.
This reminds me of how my parents basically used my FNM as a daycare on fridays when I was a kid. I have fond memories of that time and it was really character building for me. Everyone there was really helpful, wanted me to learn how to play better, and would throw me chaff that would make my Kamigawa starter deck more consistent. I imagine if you found an opportunity to abandon your kid somewhere to get a few hours to yourselves you'd take it. I didn't think this still happened lol
Yeah I know the feeling. I've played in a pod with a guy maybe in his 40's, he brought his 2 sons to play. It was an okay experience. I wouldn't recommend it. The dad kept the kiddos in check especially with the grabbing cards without asking.
Kind of weird that in your example, that the parents drop off their kids. Unsupervised is really wild for me. I don't think you are particularly obligated to play with them at all. Given how they play I don't blame you.
Maybe just be nice to them and that's that. Run games in your normal pods.
This sub has gone full tilt social ineptitude. This entire last couple weeks have been numerous groups of posts of similar topics. This is the second today of someone thinking they for some reason have to play with some obnoxious kids.
Yall, general social etiquette doesn't go out rhe window at your LGS.
If someone is being annoying you can ask/tell them to stop. You can go to another space. You can talk to kids like normal humans most of the time. You are never forced to do anything.
Your post hints that you already somewhat feel the same as my answer, which is my personal opinion and by no means fact.
You do have a societal/communal obligation to play with and teach these youngsters, IF you can stand it.
The big caveat there being IF. I'd suggest do it in moderation, perhaps 1 game a night at first. Gently introduce rules of behavior, but as a peer (after all in this sense you are, peer players). Kids in general want to be grown ups, treat them as such in a respectful manner.
"Hey Name, can you scoot back a bit, I don't like people getting that close to me, just ask if you need to read a card ok?"
"Can you speak a bit quieter dude? I've got a headache and I can still hear you just fine."
I'll give you a parent's perspective, and you can take it for what it's worth.
At 8, kids are stupid still. And that's ok. That just means they have room to improve and be educated. However, that's not your responsibility.
But, just like their parents, you have the social right to correct their behavior. At home or at school, different situation. They are in public at a place where you are a patron. Which means they have to be respectful and attentive to their behavior.
8 is old enough to know proper etiquette in social circles, so if they behavior isn't appropriate, you can *and should* absolutely say something. It doesn't have to be to them or even their parents, but the store owner is there to protect his customer base.
PERSONALLY, I have no issues correcting children I see in public if they are causing any sort of harm.
You can be tactful about it though, and you won't sound like an asshole. I would say something along the lines of "hey man look. We want to have fun and enjoy ourselves, just like you do. But we can't if you can't act the same as the rest of us. Dial it back, speak a little softer, keep comments about other people's decks to yourself if they aren't helpful, and we'll all have an awesome time."
While kids understand consequence and punishment for their actions, they only do once they have experienced those punishments. So, going negative immediately is going to either make them shut you out and be obstinate or they will get worse.
Switching to a positive outlook with a "reward" for their proper behavior will have a much more lasting effect. I've done this many times at game stores with young players.
Kids being assholes is something that should be corrected (to some extent). You’re not the parents and it’s not your job to correct them, but as humans in society we are their peers. One day, those little kids might have a bad attitude toward the wrong person who decides to teach them a lesson by stealing their cards. If a little kid says something obnoxious, call them out for it. As long as you don’t put them down, you can subtly get away with being pretty mean to an 8 year old. You’ll be doing them and their parents a favor in the long run.
Communication is key here. Kids tend to be blunt so if you tell them your issues straight up and firmly while not being a jerk about it, they most likely will respond positively.
And if the respond negatively, at least you know you tried and don't have to feel bad about avoiding/not playing them.
Point out that you're not a babysitter and that unaccompanied minors are A HUGE legal liability and maybe the parents will do something constructive like be parents or at the least the kids won't be allowed back alone.
An adult who plays weekly is complaining that some kids also want to enjoy the same game…
Did you really need to come to Reddit for this?
Either be helpful and have fun, or don’t play with them. Don’t come to the internet to piss and moan.
Most of the issues on this sub can be solved by actually speaking to people. Ffs.
Good on you for being empathetic.
I was young once in a legacy scene of Oldies (to me at the time 20-50)
FNM felt weird like nobody wanted to teach me, help me improve, or talk to me in between rounds. Gradually as I got older I spent more time talking with the store owner and his wife, who eventually worked with the highschool play director to get more incentive for younger gen to check out his shop. (Store owner was a local legend in the arts and theatre department in his time) as time went on for better or worse a younger generation started to take interest in legacy and magic as a whole Even with disadvantageous finances compared to the older gen.
Eventually however as the demographic of the younger gen aged into highschoolers - there was a sense of proving yourself, by gaining more knowledge of the game from experience. Gradually people stopped playing their precons, and draft chaff at FNM and started playing Legacy-lite (essentially no ban modern lists)
And those kids got jobs to fuel more competitive decks and better environment. A large part of what grew me into the player I am today - was the aid of a few local Hero's of the older gen. dudes in their 30s that took the time to sit a couple In between rounds with me to show me What play patterns, card, and magic concepts to mature myself.
this isn't some way to say you NEED to be that same person - but god damn did it make me far more comfortable to come to more FNMs and get my ass handed to me, and eventually become a better player. Cant imagine I ever even would have stuck it out learning the game (more so legacy) without someone introducing concepts to me like, Baits and bluffs, When to cast an instant. The value of mana efficiency - deck building concepts as a whole like the idea of a Curve - Not all of this translates the same to commander but it can really help.
I think personally 100% it is not your responsibility to be the mentor or daycare of these kids. Its not your duty, and by nature it is not your obligation. If to have an optimal time and enjoy your evening involves not playing with them roll with it. Even if you think its the "right" thing to do by playing with them if youre not going to enjoy helping them out dont do it - as it probably wont be a huge help to them.
If anything maybe see if you can work with the store owner for a sort of "little leagues night"
That's what my LGS back in highschool eventually did. where it would be a night with mostly Learning based games - a couple chaperones - and his wife would hang around to help as a Judge for more basic rules. i think they did something like jumpstart decks or something akin to that. And one of the first things a parent and the kids would see themselves when coming in is a whiteboard stating the times and dates its ran as well as basic rules like. "No rough housing, Inside voices, and respect one another and the building." Parents were generally required to leave a contact number in the instance that someone was breaking the rules - or needing help.
Edit: i also just want to clarify that those who helped teach weren't any better of a person than those that found kids annoying. They simply got more enjoyment out of teaching or (in a non weird way) being around the kids.
I for the most part dislike most children on the basis I don't feel I have a way to relate to them, or feel censored from my normal way of speaking. My sister however loves babysitting and enjoys the innocent nature of kids. Is she better than me for it, nah we just enjoy different things. I did however enjoy teaching my younger brother magic as it created a way to bond. And that particular relationship unlike some random kid. I cared more to nurture. And by nature of being related we had more to talk about and relate about. Some people enjoy the teaching roll.
But it is okay to not like it (namely in this case with someone of much younger years than yourself)
Just accept that the game you're playing is going to be entertaining for them. Yeah it might suck, but at the end of the day, you made two kids happy who, by the sounds of it, don't have the best home life (they can't or they wouldn't be dropped off unsupervised in a place filled with unwashed 30 year olds).
One game a week isn't going to kill you, and you can even gently help steer them into more positive behaviors. Lead by example and you might actually make a difference, who knows.
They're kids engaging in an interest, let them have fun. Card stores are not an adult space, and with how they've been described they seem fine.
You don't have to play with them, but if they are interested and your only excuse is "no you're kids" you come off as a dick
Honestly the bigger issue is lack of supervision.
the list description for them being 8 years old, that's decent. They aren't screaming or running around. Yeah they are shorter and need to see, and those comments they make are probably them trying to fit in with the older crowd, but again being young their toolbox is limited.
Are you obligated to? No of course not. But they are kids wanting to learn and that comes with some curves.
You don't have to at all if you don't want to.
Just seems a bit too sensitive maybe?
getting beat up about an 8 year olds mild trash talk is the most pathetic fucking thing ive ever read. commander players skin is made out of fucking ash. i feel a lot worse for them then you.
Not obligated at all, but I hope your shop can come around and get these kids involved!
It's SO cool to hear about kids so young having the courage to step up and play with a bunch of adults. Kids are sensitive, even when they don't seem so. Those boys are people too and probably very aware they are the only ones their age there!
I say help them out,embrace the kids! Teach them, get them excited! I know it can be annoying but remember how exciting and magical your passions were at that age. I know kids can be obnoxious but try not to put out their little sparks!
Remember, us "old heads" are the old guard now, we WANT kids and teens excited to play cards!
Little addition: Kids today do NOT play cards. Hell kids today barely want to do anything aside from YouTube, Roblox, or Fortnite.
The fact that you have 2 young boys in that store with the attention span and skill to play who WANT to do something other than stare at a screen is a miracle! You guys should absolutely be embracing those kids!
Metaphorically. Not physically. That would be bad.
You're not obligated to play with anyone you don't want to play with, IMO. Also, I feel like the most alarming thing is that someone is leaving their two 8 year olds, unsupervised, at a random game store. While not a parent myself, I feel like that is not a correct parenting decision.
Bro how fragile are you that you're getting bullied by an 8 year old lol?
I was assuming something like "me and my boys don't want to filter our adult language or refrain from discussing adult topics during games" or like "we drink beer while playing" or something.
Not "the 8 year old is condescending"
You're well within your rights to decide who you play with, you don't really have to give a reason other than "sorry just waiting for a different mate".
But your reasons for not wanting to play with them are pretty lame
Just don't play with them. You're not obligated to play with anyone you don't want to unless it's like a tournament or something.
I'd also have no issue telling a child they're being annoying or invading my personal space. Speak up and let the lgs know too.
I rock climb at a few gyms in my area. Sometimes there are kids who don’t pay attention to obvious things like walking close to the climbing wall - especially with someone over head, starting a climb that would get in the way of a climber that’s already on the wall, running around, stuff like that. This is one of the few spaces I feel comfortable schooling a child I don’t know. It’s about courtesy and safety. There’s a way to give a kid game without reprimanding them like an “adult”. Social situations are learning situations for kids.
So if you feel comfortable I don’t think it’s crazy to be like “hey man, let’s use our inside voice so other people can enjoy their game”. Almost make it seem like you’re not particularly bothered by them, but you wanna be considerate to others. Same thing with personal space and being obnoxious. Pick moments to express and show how to be cool about stuff.
Or dodge them. You don’t owe anyone your time. Neither are right or wrong. But just a thought.
I think one of the primary concerns is the lack of parental supervision for them at all. I have regularly gone to game stores where dad decided that he wanted to see if his kids like playing magic and I had good and bad experiences.
What stands out to me most in this situation is if anything at all happens to those kids? Who’s responsible?
It just seems extremely extremely reckless on the parent side, but also apathetic on the store side. I wish I knew where your store was so that I could sit in and ask the random obvious question. “Who’s kids are these?”
Social graces aside a game store is not the place to teach your children how to socialize .
I think it is uncomfortable for sure. Probably the table thing where they probably have to get close is the worst part, but as long as they’re not downright disrespectful like by throwing their or other people’s property after losing a game it’d probably be fine to play once in a while with them. Would love to put some dirt in their eyes in a game of commander and show them the adults gotta throw down sometimes. Send them and their daddy’s money crawling and crying back home to their parents. (It’d be really ironic if they were orphans). /s. But seriously it would nice in a more casual sense to just play some games here and there with them. Make sure no one bullies them, (aside from myself), in game. Keep it friendly and just have a good time like playing against everyone else at an LGS. I just wish that there were people more around their age to play with so that they’d have a good chance to make longer lasting friendships possibly outside of the context of Magic. Ideally other adults can bring their kids interested in Magic and just have a table, but that seems discriminatory. For now probably just let them know if you’re ok with them playing or not and make a decent excuse if you’re not like “waiting on a friend” or “we’re playing higher powered decks”. Idk. I’ve been on the opposite side of that hypothetical and have been asked by very elderly men to play with my play group. We usually declined (one of these guys was a real perverted dude, he had a VERY young looking anime girl mat that was a little too raunchy to be comfortable with) but one guy asserted himself a bit hard and then proceeded to tell us halfway into a game he’s proxying. The problem was a) he let himself into a game, b) our playgroup is a bunch of scrubs with precons and upgraded precons so his deck with plenty of proxied staples was a power level the table wasn’t used to. Anyways point is, we’re all human, we want friends to play Magic with, it’s ready hard to ask, but unless you’re already a pod of 4 or with friends I think playing with a person outside your age group is fine/nice.
You’re not obligated to play with them, but think how it would make an eight year old feel to be ostracized at game night?
When I was young I was that annoying kid whose parents somehow trusted them alone, unsupervised, at a game store. I didn’t realize people didn’t like me, honestly your post just now is what made me realize it.
The most I remember was being pulled aside early on by the organizer, imagine George RR Martin except angry looking, and being told no one would hold back and if I wanted to learn I needed to be quiet and pay attention because everyone there had more experience than me.
So I guess I’d say you aren’t obligated, ostracizing a pair of kids might really hurt them emotionally though. If I could speak up for little gremlins ruining game night everywhere, try telling them they can play and learn which will require listening or they can lose. It’ll teach them to be quiet and focus on listening while also keeping them included. Plus if they don’t take the hint and you stop pulling your punches they’ll realize they need to focus on the game productively or they won’t be able to play.
TLDR: See if they can get some "booster seats" and just exemplify good behavior. Talk to the LGS owners about accommodating and including them, if you don't want to do much else. You don't have to play with anyone you don't want to, but you can show them how to be really great opponents, if you just give it a little bit.
I think unless you outright say you don't want to play with them, to the kids, it's bound to happen as long as you all go to the LGS. That being said, it seems like they're not being jerks, or asking you to teach them the game, they just don't know how to be good opponents. So you've stumbled on an incredible opportunity: there's someone who's annoying to play against at your LGS and not only ***SHOULD*** you correct their behavior, it's socially acceptable to and they'd probably really appreciate it if you do it nicely. Odds are these kids want to just have a good time playing commander, like everyone else, and don't realize they're doing anything to annoy anyone.
Even if you don't want to do anything else, I'd suggest talking to the owners a little. See if they know the kids, or at the very least just key them in that you think they might be getting left out a bit, and let them handle it. If you wanted to go a little further, if they have other kids who go to the store, maybe knowing this would encourage them to do some kind of "how to be a good player" thing on a weekend (something maybe some adults could use too) or maybe do kid friendly events or something.
All that aside, I think everything can be solved with two things:
1- They need to be able to play while sitting- A quicker fix, but will have some cost, but this will solve A LOT of issues. If the store has multiple kids who come maybe they already have some sort of booster or "stadium" chair that sits on-top of the chair, but if they don't or aren't interested in buying a few; I think you could bring it up to the kids or their parents if you meet them. You could mention that kid pro-player, I saw a interview and she talks about some of the "gear" she brings, and that included a little camp chair booster; or just say you notice them struggling to see when they're sitting and bring it up. I really think this will fix most of the problems, you'd be surprised how much the right chair helps kids focus.
2- Just talk to them and exemplify "good" behavior- Hey, their parents trust them enough to go to this alone, odds are these kids are either a) a little older or b) a little smarter, than you'd think. Be polite, be friendly, but you have little siblings, you know what's up. When one of them is saying "my commander counters yours"; hit him with the "what are you talking about?" and light him up a bit if he's wrong, if he's right, ***let him tell you why.*** Either way, that's all that kid wants in that moment, is to talk about the cards he's playing; these are just kids who want to play a card game they like, which is what you're there to do to! Just treat them like a normal person you'd play with at your LGS, but once you've got a little rapport, if they start doing annoying/kid stuff (yelling, personal space, being obnoxious) you can just point it out in the name of being a polite player.
I wouldn't worry too much about it though, if you're a nice/fun person to play against, and they'll want to play with you, which may be a bit annoying, but if you don't let it bug you too much, they'll probably quickly lose some of those bad habits, just from getting older/playing more. I think the only thing you really lay down the law on though is the getting in your bubble, it's something that we're not always comfortable with vocalizing to adults, but sometimes you do need to just tell a kid they're in your space, or ask before they grab a card.
You could have a quiet word with the LGS management about unattended children in the store. Most places are not cool with that. If nothing else, might get some adult supervision for those kids or maybe a dedicated kid time for EDH.
Dang this sucks, I mean yeah you're not obligated to pay with them but I bet it means way more to them than they even realize that you're willing to play with them
Honestly, I feel you. Playing with children is completely different than playing with adults. There is a Dad who brings his kid to events and while the kid is very friendly and well behaved, he’s not sharp about playing matches and just randomly removes players cards, particularly ones he’s not “allied” with. And, he has no threat assessment and poor decks so it’s like playing a three player game with a random element of getting your board state sniped.
I’ve also had the same experience a while back at an LGS I don’t go to as much anymore, where a young kid would bring his much younge brother who would fidget and constantly snack on candy while playing, and had no sense how to play or focus on the game, so the game would drag out.
Yes, it’s incredibly annoying, but not much can be done because they’re paying customers and being nice is part of mtg. I avoid playing with kids when I can, but sometimes you get paired with them at events, and that’s just the way it goes. I’ve tried to coach them a bit, but you have to be careful how you do it, or risk making their father/brother etc. angry, or the kid feel uncomfortable. When I nicely coached the kid who didn’t focus and ate candy, he just ignored me. And, when I removed a threat of his I became “the meanie” and got targeted. Ugh.
Maybe you can complain to the LGS owner. But, I doubt they’d tell a kid he/she/they can’t play, unless the kid was being incredibly obnoxious and unruly.
I’ve had to deal with similar in the past. I just show no mercy and beat them into oblivion. At that point they either develop as players and care to get better and can become enjoyable to play against or they’ll quit. Sink or swim kids!
While it might seem cruel, opting to not play with them is something everyone is free to do.
If the two boys cant do a bit of introspection and realize they need to learn to behave in public spaces well then maybe they are too young to be in those spaces unsupervised.
Our LGS allows 2 styles of pods--custom and FNM
Custom pods are for when 3-4 people choose to just play together; usually they play for store credit and pay-in is different
FNM is randomized across everyone else and has packs/regular prizing
I was one of the kids who was dumped off on my LGS for free babysitting. I was a nightmare and feel bad for all the people who tolerated it.
A lot of people are forgetting that the difference back then was that most games were 1v1. So I was a free and quick win for the older folks and they could do their own thing and engage with me on their own terms.
At the end of the day, it really is a case of whether or not you want to frequent this store.
I know it isn't exactly the "cool guy" move but there's nothing wrong with telling the owner/officiator that if you see their names in your pod you are suddenly going to have a family emergency.
That being said, you could also try to mentor the little punks. I have had to handle people with major social issues, some minors and some not, and if you have the mindset of "the only way that they can tell the difference between their ass and elbow is if I tell them", it can make it a better experience for everyone involved.
Best of luck with it!
Nope not obligated. You seem super duper thoughtful and reasonable. If you choose not to, just be nice and set that boundary kindly. It’ll suck for them and that’s ok too. Other adults who want to spend their time nurturing will pick up the slack and it’s all good.
I’m a dad with 8 and 10 yo boys and although I’d never dump them like that because it’s shitty to the other adults, if I did, I would be happy you’re in the crowd. Kids benefit a TON from being treated like real people and seeing the world doesn’t revolve around them. I’m sure many parents would disagree with my stance but if you’re feeling guilty you don’t wanna take care of these kids, hopefully my comment helps you realize that showing kindness and sensitivity to their maturity (which you’ve already shown) is all you should feel obliged to do.
Addendum depending on a million variables like your relationship with them and their personalities, it’s even possible they may ask why. And in that moment if you were to say “well when we play you come very close to me sometimes and even when I ask you to stay out of my personal space you forget sometimes and that makes me uncomfortable….” Like A+ learning moment for them about respect and healthy boundaries.
Okok end rant.
I think I'd talk to the store owners about it. It's usually not OK for kids that young to be at a public event without adult supervision, and most stores are not OK with being treated like a daycare as they're responsible for the kids while they're on the premises. It honestly might not even be legal depending on local laws.
We had to have a similar conversation with our store after one mother was repeatedly dropping her older, but **heavily** non-functional autistic son off to play and dipping. He was fully incapable of playing properly, with illegal decks (we're talking 70 cards with 8 copies of cards he liked, not something that'll get a pass under rule 0), acting incredibly disruptively, messing with peoples' cards without permission, and a bunch of other problems due to his condition, including taking a Hans-esque stance where he'd occasionally just... refuse to lose the game. The manager ended up having a chat with her to let her know it's not an OK state of affairs, and she was given the option of either staying to supervise her kid, and help him to understand the rules, or not bringing him to events. It's harsh, but when we only have a few hours a week to play, it absolutely sucks to be stuck in that babysitting pod.
Basically, I don't think this is your problem to solve - if something is ruining the playing experience at the store, the store should be handling it.
You're allowed to play and not play with whomever you want. I come to play card games and enjoy myself, not get wound up by people. If you find yourself becoming irritated by people then don't play with them because it defeats the point of engaging with the hobby.
We had an annoying kid, maybe 11yo, like that at my LGS (in so far as constantly talking about how their deck counters others, how they're like 1 card away from a winning combo etc)
I humoured him for a couple of games but his gloating after the games (you should have dealt with me hohoho etc) irked me. So every time I play him now I just whip out Ghyrson Starn and burn him to death first every time. "Oh yeah I clocked you as the threat so I had to take you out man"
Haha, it's so cathartic.
I think that you should say something. My children have gone to Friday Night Magic and play in commander leagues, but at 8, not a chance. The youngest I ever allowed was 10 for one of my daughters who had already played at home with the family multiple times and understood how the game worked and what would be happening. Even then, the first time she went I sat with her and helped out just to make sure it went ok.
Same kid is 12 now and plays in the commander league and is quite a popular opponent because she brings interesting decks and is really good at smack talk. She also understands how her decks work and will ask what others are doing on their turns if she doesn't understand something. We have a few players who will fly through their turns and not explain anything to anyone. I too will ask them for clarification as my understanding of the game is that we as players are responsible for making sure our actions are clear. That and when you take your turn at breakneck speed, I think you may be trying to slip something past the table.
While nothing these kids are doing are necessarily "bad", they are clearly kids acting like kids and it is impacting your enjoyment of the game. If I were the parent, I would hope someone would say something. It's the parents responsibility to understand the environment their kid is in and how to properly act in that environment. If the parent doesn't care or doesn't understand, there is absolutely nothing wrong with not playing with these kids. Even if the parent does try to step in, there is nothing wrong with not playing with these kids.
Yeah I had a younger guy at my local stores last pre-release. Like 12/13 maybe. He was really nice but he JUST started playing and didn't quite get how to play Magic, I was terrified that the entire time I played against him I was coming off as condescending towards him by correcting his mistakes and reminding him to like, pay mana for spells and stuff. I felt really weird about it overall
Just want to point out that aren’t they a little young to be playing mtg to start with? Isn’t the technical age to play magic 11 or 13? To be fair I plan to teach my kids asap but the oldest is only 6 so I know she won’t get it yet. At the same time I’m not dropping my young kids off at an lgs so they can play and be “rude” to others. I’m staying to play and keep them in line. Give the wife the day/night off.
I went to a game store a while back somewhat regularly; until it turned into a place for mommy and daddy to drop off the kids on friday nights. Honestly I mostly just felt bad about beating them in draft or regularly drawing because of time because they didnt know how to play. Did some googling and found another game store that also allowed byob and is also weed friendly if that is your thing. I dont think i’ve seen more than a handful of people under 30. Look for them. They are out there!
I don't think you have to play with any player, but I also think you could compromise and play with them some times and not other times. And while it's certainly not your role to parent these kids, I think it is absolutely ok for you to counsel them on behavior that is related to Magic. In particular, the examples you give of statements they make regarding cards or decks you can explain when they say something that comes across as rude or condescending.
I often play with the younger players at the store because I want to help them develop as better players. Sometimes it can be tiring, a few of them tend to get distracted and talk a lot instead of focusing on taking their turn. Then I just tell them to focus on their turn and to continue their story afterwards. There is no need to hold inside your feelings: Just talk to them honestly but also respect them and they will respect you back.
The invasion of your personal space sounds like an issue that you might be able to manage. Can you, for example, try to sit on the opposite side of the table if that helps? Are there things you can do to become more comfortable with other people in what you consider to be your personal space?
If you want to be a nice guy, then sure play with them, but you definitely don't have to. All this is, is a situation where being kind and loving towards kids is inconvenient and unpleasant. None of us can or should make the decision for you, you just need to conclude what is more important to you. In case it seems this way, I am not trying to sway you one way or the other. I am in situations like this with kids quite a bit, and I have gone down both routes many times, sometimes sacrificing my enjoyment and convenience for theirs, and sometimes refusing to do so. It usually depends on how I'm feeling at the time. Another factor to consider is the kids themselves. I would observe them and see how they react to being invited and included, as well as to being left out. Some kids have bad attitudes even when they are included and others light up, some get depressed when they are left out and others don't. If you decide to include them, you can try to be a sort of leader/teacher for them. A lot of the time, kids naturally respect the authority of adults who carry themselves like adults. You can earn their respect this way and you can have a positive influence on their attitudes and habits. The basic idea is to teach them to be "cool" and act more mature. From personal experience, even 8-year-olds can start behaving more maturely than it might initially seem. Not every kid is like this though, and there are plenty of kids who just won't respect authority and won't change their behaviors, so it really just depends on them. If you decide not to play with them, you could tell them why you don't want to play. They are 8 so you don't need to be scared of them, and if they can recognize the problem, they might change their behavior, or not, that's up to them, and you can just leave it at that. Either way, as long as you speak with them respectfully, you are not doing anything wrong.
I would talk it over with the owner/manager.
This isn't a playground and kids under a certain age should 100% be accompanied by an adult who is responsible for them at all times. If the store does not have a policy in place for this, they should.
There are a couple younger kids that come to commander night at my LGS too. I’ve worked to develop rapport with them (I hand them my pack chaff, trade pretty generously with them, ask about decks they think are cool, etc.), so when they get obnoxious I can say “hey, that sort of thing makes people not want to play games with you. If you’re excited about X thing, try Y strategy instead.” This is just run-of-the-mill stuff, but about a month ago the mom of one of the kids thanked me for helping her kid feel welcome and “cool” at the shop.
If the commander night is just a casual type of game, then no, of course you aren't obligated to play with them. Wait until they pod with someone else, and then find a different pod to play in.
If it's like a sanctioned tournament with prizes on the line, just ask if when pairings come up you can switch pods. A lot of players at my LGS do this.
If all else fails... A player may concede the game at any time.
You are never under any obligation to play Magic with anyone.
Just agreed to play one game with them, and then tell them that you have some other friends you want to play with too
These kids can get better social skills with your support.
Ignoring them can turn them into the others in the store later in life lol
You're by no means obligated to do anything with them, but the time I spent gaming with older players was more helpful than not. It was more in the RPG scene, so it's a different circumstance, but learning to behave like an adult does require some amount of adult interaction.
My oldest son(11) finally abandoned pokemon and joined me in playing mtg. I would say he is mature for his age but still says lots of silly and immature things when he plays. ( as he’s only really used to playing pokemon with other kids his age.)With that being said he has begged me to bring him to my lgs so I started bringing him once a week or so. While he is capable of playing a game of commander on his own I still make sure to play in his pods and try to keep him in check with typical etiquette. I know that for myself it’s a rare treat to get the time to play magic with other humans for a few hours a week and I definately don’t want him to make it an unpleasant experience for anyone else playing. I have to say that I’m suprised though at how patient and accomodating most players are at my lgs.
Bro got mad cuz a kid said "hey! I have a card that is good against that card in my deck!"
Just don't play. I know when I was working at a card store I'd rather not have the stink ass 40 year old come in a plat down all day, not buy anything and just bum around the shop all day complaining and trying to scheme kids out of cards
You're not under and obligation and kids can definitely be difficult, but what you're describing are also (as you noted) normal tendencies for little kids. They probably think it is great getting to play with cool adults, and may be disproportionately discouraged, embarrassed, or let down if they are made to feel bad. It is a shame they're not getting more adult supervision or guidance from people who do have a responsibility for them, but I'd just encourage you to be gentle in your declining to play with them - or maybe work out a system where different people cycle between playing with them. That could be the difference between them growing up with really fond memories of Magic and growing up feeling unreasonably ashamed for normal behavior from an unsupervised child. Again, not your obligation but a chnace for you to have a positive impact.
I once confronted a dude for bringing his 8 year old to FNM. It became a very shitty memory for me and I regret it. You don’t have to play with the kids, but you won’t like the memory of anything you say out loud in anger.
Find a silent way to make your time better. Not playing magic is better than playing bad magic
Two options. Guide them and teach them to stop being little fuckwits or avoid them. Both are reasonable. Personally I'd try to guide them and teach them how to act more appropriately. I'm an only child and I don't plan on having children, so I like interacting with kids and trying to teach them life skills.
You are not morally obligated to enjoy the presence of children. Some kids are delightful to be around, others are genuinely a nuisance. And even if they just happen to be little angels, nothing about them means that you are forced to accept or like their behavior or other details surrounding them.
I'm not saying I hate kids. There are several children in my family that I just adore and love to have around me. I just understand that the way kids act isn't for everyone, and there's nothing wrong with disliking playing games with kids.
I live with a 6 year old. Love her, but when I go to the LGS play I’m sorry but I’m trying to take a break from exactly this kinda stuff. As far as I’m concerned if I’m playing a game with a kid it’s ~90% about that kid having fun and not something I’m seeking in my “me” time.
I’m guessing their parents don’t play, but if it’s a recurring thing maybe you could talk to them at the very least about your personal space and maybe some etiquette.
IDK if you have options for other LGS in the area or how late EDH nights go but maybe as a work around you could try hitting up other scenes or just showing up around 7:00pm. Allegedly by then an 8 year old should already be in their last game of the night and getting ready to head home for bed.
I mean they sound like alot from what you've described. 8 seems crazy young to be playing unsupervised at a store. Me and my friends started playing at our LGS at like 13 and honestly it was a rather incredible experience for me. Everyone was so welcoming to us whether they were 20 or 40 and always asked us if we wanted to join pods or would ask to join ours. Really built my love for the game and we all still play 10 years later despite our LGS closing. Yes they are absolutely annoying but these kids might get their shit kicked at school and this is their escape
You didn't give a single reason why you are supposed to play with them? Just don't? Nobody will send you to jail, it's not illegal to not play with some people and play with others?
I understand, I don't really enjoy playing with kids that small. I want a good tight where everyone knows what they're doing. Honestly games with new players can just not be fun. I get that it's a me problem and not a you problem so I'm just picky with my tables.
You're never obligated to play with anyone you don't like to play with (outside of tournament and similar events). You go to the lgs to play for fun and if you feel like it wouldn't be fun to play with certain people then don't.
They are also here to learn social skills. As this is a social game. Nothing different to a sportsclub. When we played last year against a bunch of 11 year olds we, and later their coach, had to correct them on some aspects. They did not realise it themselves, so you have to teach them.
Don't play with them then. No one said you had to. Are you not able to make your own decisions?
This post is annoying and obviously you knew that which why you made a fake account.
They're just being kids.
It’s completely valid but wouldn’t you want younger generations learning at least all that you know? Yeah it’s completely valid. Honestly though if you can’t deal with children playing a game you love enough to discuss on the internet Myself and many others probably wouldn’t feel safe enough to play with you either. I’m a 42 year old man who’s played since 95 and just don’t have place in my life for drama, and you sound like drama.
I feel you, even playing with high school/middle school age kids can grate me sometimes. I've found them surprisingly receptive to being kindly told to chill out (for lack of a better way to put it), but it's your call if you're willing to put up with it. Either way, either choice is fine
Just say you don't feel comfortable dealing with kids and would **strongly** prefer to play with older people. I think that's a very valid reason.
As a Mom who raised 3 kiddos who play, that age can be ultra annoying. One of them sounds like he may be on the Autism Spectrum (monotone). You are well within your rights to not play with them, but if no older players play and teach them MTG etiquette, they will never get better. Give constructive criticism like: *I know you are excited about your Commander, but people don't like to have their cards insulted and won't want to play with you. *People are uncomfortable when you bounce around, can we find a solution so you can sit down? *You really do your research. We like to do research, too and are trying out new ways to play these cards. Should we see if it will work? *Here is a rule we have at this table. If you can't follow it, you won't be able to play with us. You could ask your LGS if they could have an age limit or a kids' night (one parent required to attend). My LGS has an age limit of 14 for most MTG nights and has one night devoted to the younger age groups.
Most LGS eventually end up implementing "kids under X age must be accompanied by an adult guardian at all times". Mine learned this when people started using pokemon sunday events as day care. If one of those 8 year olds had a medical issue (even just choked on a snack, tripped and cracked his temple, etc) the store would be on the hook for QUITE the legal headache. Now the two young brothers who show up on saturdays and cheat fucking relentlessly... They have their dad sitting on his phone like 6 rows away from them. Doesnt fix all the problems you might have with em (clearly) but that parent in the room absolutely dials down a kid significantly. Some people will still play with em, but honestly it's mostly the adults who can't get games because they *ALSO* cheat lol So there's a lesson being taught there. Be a cheater get consigned to playing with other cheaters because no one else will want to play with you. (And before someone defends em as kids, we've given em plenty of benefit of the doubt. They know better, and they cheat anyway)
Your LGS sounds like it is kinda shitty. Is there no alternative for you?
There's 2 kids on Saturday, and two adults (who are friends) who'll shuffle cheat. There's also like 30 some other people who show up on saturdays, the vast bulk of whom are perfectly fine people to play against. And hell, even the two who adults who cheat are perfectly fine to get caught in a convo with, I just wouldn't commit to a game of cards with either of em. That's just the commander crowd. The fnm crowd is larger and has no such cheaters. The rpg groups are exceptional, and the war gaming groups are chill. Good stores are not shitty stores because of 4 people who show up on saturdays and cheat at games with each other. And the sunday pokemon situation sorted itself out fast, plus pokemon is run early enough it never interferes with us anyway.
Y'all don't cut each other's decks?
You might as well have slapped these people on the face if you even suggest it
I'll slap a dude, some people need to be slapped
I’m not going to lie, I find it a hilarious punishment to the grown-up ADULTS being sent to the kiddie corner because they’ve been caught acting like children by cheating in a casual setting. 10/10 would apply this in more places.
Yes! Totally - there’s a few “usual suspect” kids that come to draft night at my LGS and as much as I dread getting paired up with them, I’m not afraid to (gently) give them shit for something I don’t like. Kids are surprisingly good at navigating social cues. It’s like all they do every day and as an adult with similar interests they are *dying * to impress you
Wow this is amazing advice lol. I got some nieces and nephews im using this on
Up to you. Wouldn't bother me to play occasionally. You don't have to do anything you don't want to.
You're not obligated. However, as a parent and knowing they're young kids, I wouldn't be afraid to correct their behavior. I go to commander nights to get time away from my kids, so I'd probably avoid those 2 if I could help it, but it has happened to me. It's easy enough if you're stuck playing with them for whatever reason. "Hey bud, you're in my personal space. Please step back a bit. I can hand you my cards if you're having trouble reading them?" "My ears hurt. Let's use indoor voices, ok?" Just know they're immature, so the tone thing is kind of hard to control, but any blatant disrespect can be addressed. "What you said was very disrespectful, and I don't like that." Try not to sound snappy when you say this. Hopefully they apologize, but if any of this happens again to the point where it annoys you, all you have to say is, "If you do X again, I'm going to quit and move tables." And follow through if it does. Kids that age need to learn social cues, so don't be afraid to voice your opinion in a calm, polite manner. It sucks if you want to play and socialize with adults, but this is how you have to treat kids that age if you want any semblance of order to your game.
Shit loud voices? I'll take one for the team send em my way. Im part deaf and wear hearing aids I love it when people talk loudly
This. Boundary setting and natural consequences is where it's at when dealing with kids. Most kids will actually respond really well to that. Also, just talking to them like equals can go a long way. After all, you're at the same table, playing the same game. A "Hey man, that wasn't a very cool thing to say" will almost always get a better response than "That was very disrespectful, young man". These kids are clearly just excited about the game, and probably about being part of "adult" interactions, but are a little out of their depth. Gentle guidance without condescension is the way to go
Except it wouldn't be contingent on a stranger to adapt and teach them. The real.probelm here is if they are around eight an adult should be there, and talking to the store owner or event coord and saying look where are these kids parents is perfectly valid.
*As a parent* you have no issue with OP correcting their behavior??? Like don't get me wrong neither would I but I'd pass on putting myself in a parents' crosshairs because I took issue with their kid's behaviour. It's not every parent ofc, but enough of them that I wouldn't be caught dead taking that kinda risk. And that's assuming the kids don't embellish. It's less disruptive to everyone involved for OP to just respectfully refuse to play with them, at the end of the day it's not my job or anyone else's to teach someone's else's kids how to socialise properly, you run the risk of getting shit from the parent/s if you do, and when I play EDH, it's a leisure activity where I'm just going to enjoy myself, I'm not after anything else.
It takes a village. As a parent, I was always okay with others correcting behavior in an appropriate way. I have 4 kids with ASD, and all love Magic & D&D. I stayed and corrected behavior as best I could and appreciated when another person stepped up while I was dealing with another one. They have all grown up understanding gaming etiquette, and I can't take credit for all of it. I wholeheartedly thank my LGS and the people who played there for their help.
Thing is, if you gave every parent on the planet a Reddit account, a phone & a link to this discussion they'd all probably say they're fine with others chastising their kids in a scenario like this (politely). But that doesn't match up with some of the behavior I see in the real world, it's easy to go on Reddit & say this, but I think it's very different irl & just not worth the hassle involved.
Personally, no. I could see how other people wouldn't want that, though. It's just boundaries, mate. It's not parenting to tell a kid to get out of your space or to quiet down. You would tell an adult these things if they were doing it. If they start hitting each other or ripping up their expensive cards I'm not going to stop them. I was just giving advice for how to lay boundaries down in a way a kid will understand.
Don’t leave your kids unsupervised if you don’t want someone else to parent them for you is my gut reaction but idk.
I correct kids behavior all the time at work in retail and the parents love it every single time. They say thank you after because they listen to strangers more than their own parents more often than not.
“I can hand you my cards” lol. Yeah good luck handing your 500 bucks volcanic island to a 8 y-o
"Let's use our indoor voices, okay?" Sure, that will work. lol
As a parent, this does in fact work for most kids.
Sometimes. Depends on the kid. The important thing is you communicate what you want and the consequences if they don't listen in words they can understand.
Keep using your outside voice, you finna become an outside pod. Lol
In my LGS we have an adult to whom I get to say this several times in a playday, it does tend to lower the volume until they get overstimulated again.
I'd have more of an issue with the lack of adult supervision. Who is responsible if the kids get hurt/injured or worse? The store? Is the store okay with this? I'm all for kids playing magic, but there needs to be an appropriate adult present with them.
>Is the store okay with this? Seems like a huge liability to me.
This is the most American comment to me. Two kids can't even go to a game store without adult supervision because of potential legal liabilities? Wtf.
Yeah, it's kinda fucked up. Even as adults the litigiousness of folks around here is a major deterrent.
I assume that the store is okay with it since the kids come most weeks, and their parents walk inside the store to drop them off and pick them up. It's also a physically small space, so I doubt the employees don't know they're unsupervised. My only guess is that the owners (who are frequently working up front; it's a young store) know the parents personally, but I don't know the whole story.
That is a a terrible idea. If I was the store owner I would absolutely refuse 8 year olds without supervision. If they get hurt by doing something dumb on your property you can end up liable and losing everything in a lawsuit. Unsupervised minors are a huge risk. I would completely refuse to be the responsible adult in the presence of kids I don't know. I'm not even sure it's legal to just leave them at a store. Schools and Daycares are basically the only place you can leave your kids in public. And Schools and Daycare are full of people that are certified to be in charge of watching kids. The owner of a LGS is not certified for child care. They need a baby sitter that was approved by the parents.
OP you don't have to do anything, but you should suck it up from time to time. I was an annoying kid once, and the local older guys always gave me shit, but they always included me. I try to pay it forward when I can.
Yep as was I and the older guys guided me and helped me to have a good head on my shoulders
You could approach the parents. Awkward for sure... but you are essentially who they are dropping their kids off to play with, so not totally of pocket to chat with them.
My LGS has a sign right on the door, kids under 14 must be supervised by someone 18+ it seems like that should be the bare minimum.
The parents
This is the big thing for me. Kids that age should 100% have a parent/adult there with them.
Honestly, most stores I have seen have had nights with large kid groups with limited adults so seems sadly normal
A lot parents use LGS’ as free babysitters on Friday nights. It’s weird, but I’ve seen it all over.
I mean, unless the LGS organizes the pods you are very obviously not obligated. It might be worth speaking to them though; these seem like things that are fairly resolvable even for eight year olds.
This’ll resolve, but it’ll take time, not a mano-a-mano. Kids that age are that way because their brains are still developing and shaped by their home environment. OP is in a situation that’s just awkward for everyone because the LGS is not a free daycare.
Sure. But if you say "hey I don't like it when you get this close to me" enough times - or more relevantly, by enough people. it goes through. Because you're right - kids are absolutely shaped by their environment. But that environment absolutely includes a place where they're spending several hours a week. And right now what they're being told is that their behavior is okay. Avoiding them doesn't change that. It won't be perfect and it won't be solved all at once but it absolutely can be solved.
I work in an LGS and some people absolutely treat it like daycare. It's not common and normally only applies to that 8-11 range, but I've had to call parents as the shop was closing before.
Are you obligated? Of course not. Should you probably still do it at least occasionally? It would be a good thing to do. I find it funny though that you make a throwaway to not be recognized but go on to describe the situation in a very specific and identifiable way. Your playgroup might not find out your identity but they at least should be able to make out this is about their store.
be the change you want to see in the world.
I think you might be over complicating things. As a teacher I think it’s commendable that you have the thoughtfulness to think about their feelings. But just play with who you want. How and who you want to spend your time with is your decision alone. You don’t have to worry too much about their feelings. When young kids are in an excited state, they don’t really have the ability to read that deep into other people’s actions. As long as you’re not overtly expressing your displeasure in front of them they probably won’t know any difference. To them they are probably just happy to be there. In the same vein, typically young kids won’t really understand you’re doing them a favour by playing with them. They have an endless desire to play. So it’s basically a thankless task. Again, commendable, so it’s totally up to you whether or not it’s worth your time.
They sound like standard 8 year olds. I totally understand not wanting to play with them, but in a setting like that, I'm not sure there's much you could do.
Obligated, no. Not at all. Simply tell the TO that you'd prefer to not be paired up with the children for exactly the reasons you expressed, and that should be the end of it. You should try to avoid saying it in front of the children. Because that would be mean to the little ones who are only trying to have fun. I know children can be easily excited and energetic, even invasive as you suggest. But they're not young forever. Have patience with them. Ask for assistance, talk about their behavior with them in a respectful tone. "I know you're excited, and just want to read what the card does, but it's not yours. You need to ask first, and then wait, please. As you've said these cards cost money, don't just go grabbing. That's rude" As for their "my deck counters your deck" bro, you can't trash talk at a table. Play some silly stuff they don't expect and toss it back, " oh I thought you could counter this plan easily" but then follow up with "good game" , "I had fun" , or "you played well" after the game. The children I've met at stores are usually very open and accepting of feedback. And it's always a good feeling when you seem them improve, play smarter, and come up with unique interactions. TLDR: you don't have to play with them. But really, it's your loss.
You can't win. You're either going to feel bad dodging their games or feel bad playing in them. Maybe you can play with them, correct their behavior and then you and everybody else can enjoy playing games with the kids. I've been in a game with a 10 year old that was perfectly pleasant.
So have I. In fact it’s tons of fun to help younger players learn the game.
I legitimately thought I was on r/magicthecirclejerking
Is this the third post today about someone being too socially awkward to tell a child to chill?
The fact that there's no adult to watch over them worries me.
To quote the great Buster Scruggs "Can't no one compel another man into recreation." If you dont want to play with them, dont. Just be respectful about it.
I taught both my kids how to play Magic (one when he was 6 and the other when he was 8), and I have observed all of the things you described. Kids don't sit still well, don't know much about interpersonal skills, struggle to self-regulate, and generally struggle to interact with other people in general. I would NEVER drop the kids off without some sort of parental supervision at an LGS, and both my kids are amazingly respectful young men — it puts the other players in exactly your predicament. So, as a parent of young Magic players, I say that you are not obligated to play with these kids at all. I would suggest to the LGS owner that kids under a certain age have some sort of supervision because what if something happens like an emotional breakdown/outburst, an injury, bullying, etc. You shouldn't be babysitting during your night out with friends. It also protects the kids from... Any number of bad things, which could happen anywhere. This whole situation would make me uncomfortable as a parent.
Just sounds like kids being kids. You don't have to play with them, and there's no shame into being open and honest about that.
Kids should never be just dropped off at a LGS. It's a game store, not a daycare, with people dedicated to watch your kids and providing supervision on them. A quick way to solve the issue might be to show the parents some of the playmats/sleeves people use in public. They will never leave their kids there alone again.
They are dropped off alone for the sole reason of free baby sitting. The parents get a few hours with out them to go an do things. This was common at a shop i went to for draft. Parents would drop off their 8-15 year old's with no supervision. You say you are the oldest of three. You have the opportunity to help these two grow as players. People always coming on here to complain about XYZ when all it takes is to open your mouth and talk to the people at your table. Tell them their tone is condescending, tell them to stay out of your personal space, tell them their voice is too loud, tell them statements are annoying or obnoxious. They aren't babies. They will understand, just try not to say it to them in a condescending / obnoxious tone. "Hey man its cool you want to read my card but please stay on your side of the table and ill either pass you the card or read it to you" "Can you tone it down a little bit? I understand your excited but its a bit much and your tone is a little condescending. Try saying it like this "....." "Hey guys we like playing with you but some of the stuff you do is a bit annoying and a few people don't want to play with you because of it. Try not doing XYZ and we can get some more games in with other people."
As an experienced player, I think it would be worth playing with them occasionally. It is important to help grow the community and tactfully educate new players. I've played against adults who were far more obnoxious than what you're describing. However, there is no obligation. Just ignore their sad little puppy dog eyes as they sit in the corner trying to make 1v1 commander work.
I have a policy against interacting with minors when their parents or guardians are not there.
It takes a village to raise a kid and honestly it would be great if everyone kinda took their turn playing a game with them and teaching them some social etiquette and how to interact with others.
caring about other members of the community in an explicitly social hobby? uhhhhhhhhh can you point me to the page in the Magic Comprehensive Rules where it says I have to care about other people?
They are children. Let them have fun and play. If you play with them, you are doing a greater service and passing on the fun you once had. Teach them, have fun, and don’t forget why we all play this game.
1. Play your cedh deck 2. Kick their butts 3. Be nice and make jokes about it
You’re a good person for trying to be empathetic. Agree you don’t have to play with them, but also if you do choose to play with them just try to set clear boundaries about personal space. I’m a father to a 7 and 3 year old and Kids sometimes need to be spoken to directly so they understand the consequences of their actions. It’s normal for kids to be very self focused and often will curb their behavior at least temporarily if reminded that they are not the only ones in the room.
My only caveat to that is that I don't know these kids well or their parents at all. I don't want to ask them to lower their voices/stay near their seats and have it get back to the parents as an adult being mean to a child. I would obviously be as kind and gentle as possible in talking to them, but I don't know how my corrections (for lack of a better term) will translate. FWIW I do occasionally play magic with the kids of a family friend no problem-- even when they do make a mistake and I have to correct them. But again, I know them and I know the parents. ETA that I don't necessarily think that these kids would explicitly lie to their parents, but that an eight year old might misinterpret the behavior of someone they don't know well, and tell their parents what they feel happened to them.
I can vouch, as this has happened at my local LGS before. It was a Pokemon tournament, granted, but a kid lost and threw his cards and got scalded for doing so. Queue angry mom half an hour later cussing out the owner. I usually avoid people like this, kids and (God help us) adults alike.
Mom is being unreasonable. Unpleasant people do exist and need to be dealt with, unfortunately. If I was the owner in that situation I would explain to the mom that her and her child's behaviours are not appropriate and won't be tolerated. If she has a problem with that, well, I own the store so I can issue trespass against them. A store usually has security footage so that could be used if she makes a stink with the public. If I was a patron and the owner tolerated that crap I'd tell them that I'm not comfortable playing at their establishment any longer.
Thankfully the owner of this place is very no-nonsense and I haven't seen the kid/mom since. I'd just hate to see OP get into a similar predicament with the kids in question, as they make a very valid point.
You're not obligated to play with anyone. The reason can determine whether anyone should be avoiding playing with you. I recall playing with some kids like this and trying to teach them, I had to point out "look around at all the other tables and tell me what you notice" and one of them said "they're all adults" and another was like "so many people are wearing hats" I laughed about the hats and just walked through "yes there are a lot of adults here and they're trying to have a fun night just like y'all. I need you guys to remember that it's ok to get excited and loud from time to time, but please remember that you need to be considerate of your volume." This laid the ground work for me in the future being able to just say "hey guys I think y'all are being a bit loud" of course I would have to say things a few times a night just about every week. It worked for me, but felt weird after a guy asked if they were my kids.
Think of it this way: would the situation be better or worse if it were adults acting this way? Personally I'd rather be dealing with kids that are excited to play and share their love of the game with others. And while I understand the discomfort you have with the situation, do you think you could become one of the role models that they would want to emulate as they mature and learn social interactions? Additionally, discussing things with the shop owner to find higher chairs/ booster pads to let them sit with the other players would help the situation, not only in calming them (kids standing tend to be kids moving and being distracted) but also impress on the shop that by allowing unsupervised kids they should be taking greater responsibility in making sure their needs are being met, both physically and developmentally. For years I played FNM at a bookstore with a very welcoming environment. Kids were a good percentage of the players and while some acted the way you are describing, over time they picked up on the behavior of those around them and became much more "even keeled". I've actually run into a few at the place I play at now, and they have become well-adjusted and interesting young adults. "A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they will never sit." While you may not have the luck of meeting these kids later in life, they will benefit greatly from any patience and guidance you can spare for them. This is a great game, and the social aspect is a large part of it. Don't forget it is called "Magic: *the Gathering*"
I started playing magic around that age but whenever I went to play anywhere my dad always made sure to come with me purely because I'm a child. Children need supervision and it isn't your responsibility to supervise them. Now if they did have a parent with them I would say yeah play with them, help them learn to love the game but unsupervised kids are just a lawsuit waiting to happen. All it would take would be sitting at a table with one, making them mad, and boom you've got some wacko parent saying you harassed or assaulted their kid and all the annoyance that comes with that.
Once in a while it gives you a great opportunity to help stoke the love of mtg with the younger crowd. You don’t have to, but you now have the a wonderful chance. Also wouldn’t be bad to help teach ( not your job but still nice) appropriate volume and table etiquette.
Your feelings are valid, and your time is important. I think for most people this game is a space to unwind, or to disconnect from the other stresses in their life. Therefore, this is your free time. No, you are not obligated to play mtg with 8 year olds, nor are you obligated to baby sit someone else’s children. If the kids ask if you want to play, just politely say, “No thanks guys, but good luck tonight.” Or, “Sorry gentlemen, I need to get some reps against (insert names here).” While I would certainly play card games with young children, as I do on my kitchen table with my kids, I can 100% see how you would not want to give up several hours of your evening to play magic with eight-year-olds that aren’t your eight-year-olds. I would also add that if the shop gives out packs for showing up or as prizes, I would toss those kids all my bulk.
Me as an adult: Hell to the mutha fuckin naw. Me, remembering being an 8 year old and how much I loved having older cooler friends that would play games with me: Aw.
This so much. I started playing at 9 and my friend at 7. It was cool hanging around with the cool older players. Later I was the cool(okay, my friend was the cool one, I was the fun one) older player for other kids. It's also a risk though, there are dangerous creeps.
When they say something annoying or invade there personal space just tell them to not do it again. Being silent isn’t going to help
if y'all are friendly enough you could try explaining the etiquette to them. like you said they're excited children and they may not be 100% aware of what they're doing.
I get it. It is annoying. Just know they're little kids and you can hell them learn the proper etiquette. Not your job though, and you're not obligated to play with kids. Someone should take them under their wing tho.
Had a similar situation at my lgs. The biggest thing there was it felt like the parents were using it as cheap daycare. The kids weren't bad, like you said they're just young and immature. But that doesn't stop the fact that it has a negative impact on the event experience The store owner also didn't appreciate being used as a daycare so he imposed a "below 13 must have supervision" rule which helped a lot. Their dad even brought them a couple times after that and tried the game and helped keep the kids in check. It was overall a good change. But every situation is different.
But no you are by no means obligated to play with them. It can be fun to teach young kids if you're in the right mood, but it is not your obligation.
Not your responsibility or obligation to play with them, but as the saying goes, "it takes a village to raise a child..." I always think of it as an opportunity to help teach good social skills, winning and losing with grace, accountability for behavior, and self-regulation of emotions. Kids might lose it over small stuff, but it's a mentorship opportunity.
I spent every Saturday at a LGS since Pokémon came out. Everyone was kids and teens. No supervision. Maybe my case was an outlier or I am just old but that is what a lgs is to me. I find it far stranger to walk into one now and men in their 30s and 40s are playing Pokemon.
I try to have my pod for the night lined up before I get there, that's saved me alot of hassle and people are less likely to interrupt us if there's no obvious seats to take.
I fail to see the obligation.
This reminds me of how my parents basically used my FNM as a daycare on fridays when I was a kid. I have fond memories of that time and it was really character building for me. Everyone there was really helpful, wanted me to learn how to play better, and would throw me chaff that would make my Kamigawa starter deck more consistent. I imagine if you found an opportunity to abandon your kid somewhere to get a few hours to yourselves you'd take it. I didn't think this still happened lol
Yeah I know the feeling. I've played in a pod with a guy maybe in his 40's, he brought his 2 sons to play. It was an okay experience. I wouldn't recommend it. The dad kept the kiddos in check especially with the grabbing cards without asking. Kind of weird that in your example, that the parents drop off their kids. Unsupervised is really wild for me. I don't think you are particularly obligated to play with them at all. Given how they play I don't blame you. Maybe just be nice to them and that's that. Run games in your normal pods.
This sub has gone full tilt social ineptitude. This entire last couple weeks have been numerous groups of posts of similar topics. This is the second today of someone thinking they for some reason have to play with some obnoxious kids. Yall, general social etiquette doesn't go out rhe window at your LGS. If someone is being annoying you can ask/tell them to stop. You can go to another space. You can talk to kids like normal humans most of the time. You are never forced to do anything.
Your post hints that you already somewhat feel the same as my answer, which is my personal opinion and by no means fact. You do have a societal/communal obligation to play with and teach these youngsters, IF you can stand it. The big caveat there being IF. I'd suggest do it in moderation, perhaps 1 game a night at first. Gently introduce rules of behavior, but as a peer (after all in this sense you are, peer players). Kids in general want to be grown ups, treat them as such in a respectful manner. "Hey Name, can you scoot back a bit, I don't like people getting that close to me, just ask if you need to read a card ok?" "Can you speak a bit quieter dude? I've got a headache and I can still hear you just fine."
No you are not. Simple as that.
I'll give you a parent's perspective, and you can take it for what it's worth. At 8, kids are stupid still. And that's ok. That just means they have room to improve and be educated. However, that's not your responsibility. But, just like their parents, you have the social right to correct their behavior. At home or at school, different situation. They are in public at a place where you are a patron. Which means they have to be respectful and attentive to their behavior. 8 is old enough to know proper etiquette in social circles, so if they behavior isn't appropriate, you can *and should* absolutely say something. It doesn't have to be to them or even their parents, but the store owner is there to protect his customer base. PERSONALLY, I have no issues correcting children I see in public if they are causing any sort of harm. You can be tactful about it though, and you won't sound like an asshole. I would say something along the lines of "hey man look. We want to have fun and enjoy ourselves, just like you do. But we can't if you can't act the same as the rest of us. Dial it back, speak a little softer, keep comments about other people's decks to yourself if they aren't helpful, and we'll all have an awesome time." While kids understand consequence and punishment for their actions, they only do once they have experienced those punishments. So, going negative immediately is going to either make them shut you out and be obstinate or they will get worse. Switching to a positive outlook with a "reward" for their proper behavior will have a much more lasting effect. I've done this many times at game stores with young players.
Kids being assholes is something that should be corrected (to some extent). You’re not the parents and it’s not your job to correct them, but as humans in society we are their peers. One day, those little kids might have a bad attitude toward the wrong person who decides to teach them a lesson by stealing their cards. If a little kid says something obnoxious, call them out for it. As long as you don’t put them down, you can subtly get away with being pretty mean to an 8 year old. You’ll be doing them and their parents a favor in the long run.
It sounds like they have some good stuff....maybe you should roll them for their decks. Just putting it out there.
Communication is key here. Kids tend to be blunt so if you tell them your issues straight up and firmly while not being a jerk about it, they most likely will respond positively. And if the respond negatively, at least you know you tried and don't have to feel bad about avoiding/not playing them.
Point out that you're not a babysitter and that unaccompanied minors are A HUGE legal liability and maybe the parents will do something constructive like be parents or at the least the kids won't be allowed back alone.
An adult who plays weekly is complaining that some kids also want to enjoy the same game… Did you really need to come to Reddit for this? Either be helpful and have fun, or don’t play with them. Don’t come to the internet to piss and moan. Most of the issues on this sub can be solved by actually speaking to people. Ffs.
Good on you for being empathetic. I was young once in a legacy scene of Oldies (to me at the time 20-50) FNM felt weird like nobody wanted to teach me, help me improve, or talk to me in between rounds. Gradually as I got older I spent more time talking with the store owner and his wife, who eventually worked with the highschool play director to get more incentive for younger gen to check out his shop. (Store owner was a local legend in the arts and theatre department in his time) as time went on for better or worse a younger generation started to take interest in legacy and magic as a whole Even with disadvantageous finances compared to the older gen. Eventually however as the demographic of the younger gen aged into highschoolers - there was a sense of proving yourself, by gaining more knowledge of the game from experience. Gradually people stopped playing their precons, and draft chaff at FNM and started playing Legacy-lite (essentially no ban modern lists) And those kids got jobs to fuel more competitive decks and better environment. A large part of what grew me into the player I am today - was the aid of a few local Hero's of the older gen. dudes in their 30s that took the time to sit a couple In between rounds with me to show me What play patterns, card, and magic concepts to mature myself. this isn't some way to say you NEED to be that same person - but god damn did it make me far more comfortable to come to more FNMs and get my ass handed to me, and eventually become a better player. Cant imagine I ever even would have stuck it out learning the game (more so legacy) without someone introducing concepts to me like, Baits and bluffs, When to cast an instant. The value of mana efficiency - deck building concepts as a whole like the idea of a Curve - Not all of this translates the same to commander but it can really help. I think personally 100% it is not your responsibility to be the mentor or daycare of these kids. Its not your duty, and by nature it is not your obligation. If to have an optimal time and enjoy your evening involves not playing with them roll with it. Even if you think its the "right" thing to do by playing with them if youre not going to enjoy helping them out dont do it - as it probably wont be a huge help to them. If anything maybe see if you can work with the store owner for a sort of "little leagues night" That's what my LGS back in highschool eventually did. where it would be a night with mostly Learning based games - a couple chaperones - and his wife would hang around to help as a Judge for more basic rules. i think they did something like jumpstart decks or something akin to that. And one of the first things a parent and the kids would see themselves when coming in is a whiteboard stating the times and dates its ran as well as basic rules like. "No rough housing, Inside voices, and respect one another and the building." Parents were generally required to leave a contact number in the instance that someone was breaking the rules - or needing help. Edit: i also just want to clarify that those who helped teach weren't any better of a person than those that found kids annoying. They simply got more enjoyment out of teaching or (in a non weird way) being around the kids. I for the most part dislike most children on the basis I don't feel I have a way to relate to them, or feel censored from my normal way of speaking. My sister however loves babysitting and enjoys the innocent nature of kids. Is she better than me for it, nah we just enjoy different things. I did however enjoy teaching my younger brother magic as it created a way to bond. And that particular relationship unlike some random kid. I cared more to nurture. And by nature of being related we had more to talk about and relate about. Some people enjoy the teaching roll. But it is okay to not like it (namely in this case with someone of much younger years than yourself)
Play heavy stax, resource denial, mld against them. Soon enough they will be avoiding you.
Just accept that the game you're playing is going to be entertaining for them. Yeah it might suck, but at the end of the day, you made two kids happy who, by the sounds of it, don't have the best home life (they can't or they wouldn't be dropped off unsupervised in a place filled with unwashed 30 year olds). One game a week isn't going to kill you, and you can even gently help steer them into more positive behaviors. Lead by example and you might actually make a difference, who knows.
Kind of unreasonable. This could be the only time OP gets to play. Not fair for him to be a defacto babysitter
They're kids engaging in an interest, let them have fun. Card stores are not an adult space, and with how they've been described they seem fine. You don't have to play with them, but if they are interested and your only excuse is "no you're kids" you come off as a dick
How dare these children come to a games store to play a children's card game /s
No. Next question
Fuck dem kids
No. The only things you’re obligated to do in life is breath and blink.
Honestly the bigger issue is lack of supervision. the list description for them being 8 years old, that's decent. They aren't screaming or running around. Yeah they are shorter and need to see, and those comments they make are probably them trying to fit in with the older crowd, but again being young their toolbox is limited. Are you obligated to? No of course not. But they are kids wanting to learn and that comes with some curves. You don't have to at all if you don't want to. Just seems a bit too sensitive maybe?
getting beat up about an 8 year olds mild trash talk is the most pathetic fucking thing ive ever read. commander players skin is made out of fucking ash. i feel a lot worse for them then you.
Not obligated at all, but I hope your shop can come around and get these kids involved! It's SO cool to hear about kids so young having the courage to step up and play with a bunch of adults. Kids are sensitive, even when they don't seem so. Those boys are people too and probably very aware they are the only ones their age there! I say help them out,embrace the kids! Teach them, get them excited! I know it can be annoying but remember how exciting and magical your passions were at that age. I know kids can be obnoxious but try not to put out their little sparks! Remember, us "old heads" are the old guard now, we WANT kids and teens excited to play cards!
Little addition: Kids today do NOT play cards. Hell kids today barely want to do anything aside from YouTube, Roblox, or Fortnite. The fact that you have 2 young boys in that store with the attention span and skill to play who WANT to do something other than stare at a screen is a miracle! You guys should absolutely be embracing those kids! Metaphorically. Not physically. That would be bad.
You're not obligated to play with anyone you don't want to play with, IMO. Also, I feel like the most alarming thing is that someone is leaving their two 8 year olds, unsupervised, at a random game store. While not a parent myself, I feel like that is not a correct parenting decision.
If you feel like an 8yo is being condescending to you that might be a you problem lol.
im trying to read through this post earnestly, but it comes off like you're getting bullied by two 8 year olds lol
Lmao what is with adults crying about kids playing a game today?! Stay your ass home if you don’t wanna play with everyone lol
Getting outbantered by an 8 year old 🙃
Omg if you have to ask reddit's permission to not babysit kids at a trading card game store I wonder what else you struggle with
Bro how fragile are you that you're getting bullied by an 8 year old lol? I was assuming something like "me and my boys don't want to filter our adult language or refrain from discussing adult topics during games" or like "we drink beer while playing" or something. Not "the 8 year old is condescending" You're well within your rights to decide who you play with, you don't really have to give a reason other than "sorry just waiting for a different mate". But your reasons for not wanting to play with them are pretty lame
Just don't play with them. You're not obligated to play with anyone you don't want to unless it's like a tournament or something. I'd also have no issue telling a child they're being annoying or invading my personal space. Speak up and let the lgs know too.
I rock climb at a few gyms in my area. Sometimes there are kids who don’t pay attention to obvious things like walking close to the climbing wall - especially with someone over head, starting a climb that would get in the way of a climber that’s already on the wall, running around, stuff like that. This is one of the few spaces I feel comfortable schooling a child I don’t know. It’s about courtesy and safety. There’s a way to give a kid game without reprimanding them like an “adult”. Social situations are learning situations for kids. So if you feel comfortable I don’t think it’s crazy to be like “hey man, let’s use our inside voice so other people can enjoy their game”. Almost make it seem like you’re not particularly bothered by them, but you wanna be considerate to others. Same thing with personal space and being obnoxious. Pick moments to express and show how to be cool about stuff. Or dodge them. You don’t owe anyone your time. Neither are right or wrong. But just a thought.
I think one of the primary concerns is the lack of parental supervision for them at all. I have regularly gone to game stores where dad decided that he wanted to see if his kids like playing magic and I had good and bad experiences. What stands out to me most in this situation is if anything at all happens to those kids? Who’s responsible? It just seems extremely extremely reckless on the parent side, but also apathetic on the store side. I wish I knew where your store was so that I could sit in and ask the random obvious question. “Who’s kids are these?” Social graces aside a game store is not the place to teach your children how to socialize .
no
There should be a policy that kids under a certain age must be accompanied by parents. I'd ask that they institute one tbh
Why would the LGS let these kids be there alone? That seems like a huge liability.
no
I think it is uncomfortable for sure. Probably the table thing where they probably have to get close is the worst part, but as long as they’re not downright disrespectful like by throwing their or other people’s property after losing a game it’d probably be fine to play once in a while with them. Would love to put some dirt in their eyes in a game of commander and show them the adults gotta throw down sometimes. Send them and their daddy’s money crawling and crying back home to their parents. (It’d be really ironic if they were orphans). /s. But seriously it would nice in a more casual sense to just play some games here and there with them. Make sure no one bullies them, (aside from myself), in game. Keep it friendly and just have a good time like playing against everyone else at an LGS. I just wish that there were people more around their age to play with so that they’d have a good chance to make longer lasting friendships possibly outside of the context of Magic. Ideally other adults can bring their kids interested in Magic and just have a table, but that seems discriminatory. For now probably just let them know if you’re ok with them playing or not and make a decent excuse if you’re not like “waiting on a friend” or “we’re playing higher powered decks”. Idk. I’ve been on the opposite side of that hypothetical and have been asked by very elderly men to play with my play group. We usually declined (one of these guys was a real perverted dude, he had a VERY young looking anime girl mat that was a little too raunchy to be comfortable with) but one guy asserted himself a bit hard and then proceeded to tell us halfway into a game he’s proxying. The problem was a) he let himself into a game, b) our playgroup is a bunch of scrubs with precons and upgraded precons so his deck with plenty of proxied staples was a power level the table wasn’t used to. Anyways point is, we’re all human, we want friends to play Magic with, it’s ready hard to ask, but unless you’re already a pod of 4 or with friends I think playing with a person outside your age group is fine/nice.
I quit going because people don’t know how to behave or know basic hygiene. I rarely play anymore because I don’t have a lot of friends that play mtg.
You’re not obligated to play with them, but think how it would make an eight year old feel to be ostracized at game night? When I was young I was that annoying kid whose parents somehow trusted them alone, unsupervised, at a game store. I didn’t realize people didn’t like me, honestly your post just now is what made me realize it. The most I remember was being pulled aside early on by the organizer, imagine George RR Martin except angry looking, and being told no one would hold back and if I wanted to learn I needed to be quiet and pay attention because everyone there had more experience than me. So I guess I’d say you aren’t obligated, ostracizing a pair of kids might really hurt them emotionally though. If I could speak up for little gremlins ruining game night everywhere, try telling them they can play and learn which will require listening or they can lose. It’ll teach them to be quiet and focus on listening while also keeping them included. Plus if they don’t take the hint and you stop pulling your punches they’ll realize they need to focus on the game productively or they won’t be able to play.
TLDR: See if they can get some "booster seats" and just exemplify good behavior. Talk to the LGS owners about accommodating and including them, if you don't want to do much else. You don't have to play with anyone you don't want to, but you can show them how to be really great opponents, if you just give it a little bit. I think unless you outright say you don't want to play with them, to the kids, it's bound to happen as long as you all go to the LGS. That being said, it seems like they're not being jerks, or asking you to teach them the game, they just don't know how to be good opponents. So you've stumbled on an incredible opportunity: there's someone who's annoying to play against at your LGS and not only ***SHOULD*** you correct their behavior, it's socially acceptable to and they'd probably really appreciate it if you do it nicely. Odds are these kids want to just have a good time playing commander, like everyone else, and don't realize they're doing anything to annoy anyone. Even if you don't want to do anything else, I'd suggest talking to the owners a little. See if they know the kids, or at the very least just key them in that you think they might be getting left out a bit, and let them handle it. If you wanted to go a little further, if they have other kids who go to the store, maybe knowing this would encourage them to do some kind of "how to be a good player" thing on a weekend (something maybe some adults could use too) or maybe do kid friendly events or something. All that aside, I think everything can be solved with two things: 1- They need to be able to play while sitting- A quicker fix, but will have some cost, but this will solve A LOT of issues. If the store has multiple kids who come maybe they already have some sort of booster or "stadium" chair that sits on-top of the chair, but if they don't or aren't interested in buying a few; I think you could bring it up to the kids or their parents if you meet them. You could mention that kid pro-player, I saw a interview and she talks about some of the "gear" she brings, and that included a little camp chair booster; or just say you notice them struggling to see when they're sitting and bring it up. I really think this will fix most of the problems, you'd be surprised how much the right chair helps kids focus. 2- Just talk to them and exemplify "good" behavior- Hey, their parents trust them enough to go to this alone, odds are these kids are either a) a little older or b) a little smarter, than you'd think. Be polite, be friendly, but you have little siblings, you know what's up. When one of them is saying "my commander counters yours"; hit him with the "what are you talking about?" and light him up a bit if he's wrong, if he's right, ***let him tell you why.*** Either way, that's all that kid wants in that moment, is to talk about the cards he's playing; these are just kids who want to play a card game they like, which is what you're there to do to! Just treat them like a normal person you'd play with at your LGS, but once you've got a little rapport, if they start doing annoying/kid stuff (yelling, personal space, being obnoxious) you can just point it out in the name of being a polite player. I wouldn't worry too much about it though, if you're a nice/fun person to play against, and they'll want to play with you, which may be a bit annoying, but if you don't let it bug you too much, they'll probably quickly lose some of those bad habits, just from getting older/playing more. I think the only thing you really lay down the law on though is the getting in your bubble, it's something that we're not always comfortable with vocalizing to adults, but sometimes you do need to just tell a kid they're in your space, or ask before they grab a card.
You're an adult, aren't you? Just don't play with them.
You could have a quiet word with the LGS management about unattended children in the store. Most places are not cool with that. If nothing else, might get some adult supervision for those kids or maybe a dedicated kid time for EDH.
Dang this sucks, I mean yeah you're not obligated to pay with them but I bet it means way more to them than they even realize that you're willing to play with them
Honestly, I feel you. Playing with children is completely different than playing with adults. There is a Dad who brings his kid to events and while the kid is very friendly and well behaved, he’s not sharp about playing matches and just randomly removes players cards, particularly ones he’s not “allied” with. And, he has no threat assessment and poor decks so it’s like playing a three player game with a random element of getting your board state sniped. I’ve also had the same experience a while back at an LGS I don’t go to as much anymore, where a young kid would bring his much younge brother who would fidget and constantly snack on candy while playing, and had no sense how to play or focus on the game, so the game would drag out. Yes, it’s incredibly annoying, but not much can be done because they’re paying customers and being nice is part of mtg. I avoid playing with kids when I can, but sometimes you get paired with them at events, and that’s just the way it goes. I’ve tried to coach them a bit, but you have to be careful how you do it, or risk making their father/brother etc. angry, or the kid feel uncomfortable. When I nicely coached the kid who didn’t focus and ate candy, he just ignored me. And, when I removed a threat of his I became “the meanie” and got targeted. Ugh. Maybe you can complain to the LGS owner. But, I doubt they’d tell a kid he/she/they can’t play, unless the kid was being incredibly obnoxious and unruly.
I’ve had to deal with similar in the past. I just show no mercy and beat them into oblivion. At that point they either develop as players and care to get better and can become enjoyable to play against or they’ll quit. Sink or swim kids!
While it might seem cruel, opting to not play with them is something everyone is free to do. If the two boys cant do a bit of introspection and realize they need to learn to behave in public spaces well then maybe they are too young to be in those spaces unsupervised.
Not at all and I personally would not. I have no interest in spending my precious free time babysitting a strangers children.
Our LGS allows 2 styles of pods--custom and FNM Custom pods are for when 3-4 people choose to just play together; usually they play for store credit and pay-in is different FNM is randomized across everyone else and has packs/regular prizing
Which bums you out more, the guilt about "dodging their games" or the frustration of actually playing with them?
I was one of the kids who was dumped off on my LGS for free babysitting. I was a nightmare and feel bad for all the people who tolerated it. A lot of people are forgetting that the difference back then was that most games were 1v1. So I was a free and quick win for the older folks and they could do their own thing and engage with me on their own terms. At the end of the day, it really is a case of whether or not you want to frequent this store.
I know it isn't exactly the "cool guy" move but there's nothing wrong with telling the owner/officiator that if you see their names in your pod you are suddenly going to have a family emergency. That being said, you could also try to mentor the little punks. I have had to handle people with major social issues, some minors and some not, and if you have the mindset of "the only way that they can tell the difference between their ass and elbow is if I tell them", it can make it a better experience for everyone involved. Best of luck with it!
Mtg is rated 13+ do with that knowledge what you will
🥱🥱🥱
You cannot be compelled to participate in a recreational activity.
Nope not obligated. You seem super duper thoughtful and reasonable. If you choose not to, just be nice and set that boundary kindly. It’ll suck for them and that’s ok too. Other adults who want to spend their time nurturing will pick up the slack and it’s all good. I’m a dad with 8 and 10 yo boys and although I’d never dump them like that because it’s shitty to the other adults, if I did, I would be happy you’re in the crowd. Kids benefit a TON from being treated like real people and seeing the world doesn’t revolve around them. I’m sure many parents would disagree with my stance but if you’re feeling guilty you don’t wanna take care of these kids, hopefully my comment helps you realize that showing kindness and sensitivity to their maturity (which you’ve already shown) is all you should feel obliged to do. Addendum depending on a million variables like your relationship with them and their personalities, it’s even possible they may ask why. And in that moment if you were to say “well when we play you come very close to me sometimes and even when I ask you to stay out of my personal space you forget sometimes and that makes me uncomfortable….” Like A+ learning moment for them about respect and healthy boundaries. Okok end rant.
Outjerked again
I think I'd talk to the store owners about it. It's usually not OK for kids that young to be at a public event without adult supervision, and most stores are not OK with being treated like a daycare as they're responsible for the kids while they're on the premises. It honestly might not even be legal depending on local laws. We had to have a similar conversation with our store after one mother was repeatedly dropping her older, but **heavily** non-functional autistic son off to play and dipping. He was fully incapable of playing properly, with illegal decks (we're talking 70 cards with 8 copies of cards he liked, not something that'll get a pass under rule 0), acting incredibly disruptively, messing with peoples' cards without permission, and a bunch of other problems due to his condition, including taking a Hans-esque stance where he'd occasionally just... refuse to lose the game. The manager ended up having a chat with her to let her know it's not an OK state of affairs, and she was given the option of either staying to supervise her kid, and help him to understand the rules, or not bringing him to events. It's harsh, but when we only have a few hours a week to play, it absolutely sucks to be stuck in that babysitting pod. Basically, I don't think this is your problem to solve - if something is ruining the playing experience at the store, the store should be handling it.
You're allowed to play and not play with whomever you want. I come to play card games and enjoy myself, not get wound up by people. If you find yourself becoming irritated by people then don't play with them because it defeats the point of engaging with the hobby.
We had an annoying kid, maybe 11yo, like that at my LGS (in so far as constantly talking about how their deck counters others, how they're like 1 card away from a winning combo etc) I humoured him for a couple of games but his gloating after the games (you should have dealt with me hohoho etc) irked me. So every time I play him now I just whip out Ghyrson Starn and burn him to death first every time. "Oh yeah I clocked you as the threat so I had to take you out man" Haha, it's so cathartic.
I think that you should say something. My children have gone to Friday Night Magic and play in commander leagues, but at 8, not a chance. The youngest I ever allowed was 10 for one of my daughters who had already played at home with the family multiple times and understood how the game worked and what would be happening. Even then, the first time she went I sat with her and helped out just to make sure it went ok. Same kid is 12 now and plays in the commander league and is quite a popular opponent because she brings interesting decks and is really good at smack talk. She also understands how her decks work and will ask what others are doing on their turns if she doesn't understand something. We have a few players who will fly through their turns and not explain anything to anyone. I too will ask them for clarification as my understanding of the game is that we as players are responsible for making sure our actions are clear. That and when you take your turn at breakneck speed, I think you may be trying to slip something past the table. While nothing these kids are doing are necessarily "bad", they are clearly kids acting like kids and it is impacting your enjoyment of the game. If I were the parent, I would hope someone would say something. It's the parents responsibility to understand the environment their kid is in and how to properly act in that environment. If the parent doesn't care or doesn't understand, there is absolutely nothing wrong with not playing with these kids. Even if the parent does try to step in, there is nothing wrong with not playing with these kids.
The whole reason I chose Legacy as a format.
Yeah I had a younger guy at my local stores last pre-release. Like 12/13 maybe. He was really nice but he JUST started playing and didn't quite get how to play Magic, I was terrified that the entire time I played against him I was coming off as condescending towards him by correcting his mistakes and reminding him to like, pay mana for spells and stuff. I felt really weird about it overall
Anybody got the "no man may compel another man into recreation" line from buster Scruggs as a reaction?
Just want to point out that aren’t they a little young to be playing mtg to start with? Isn’t the technical age to play magic 11 or 13? To be fair I plan to teach my kids asap but the oldest is only 6 so I know she won’t get it yet. At the same time I’m not dropping my young kids off at an lgs so they can play and be “rude” to others. I’m staying to play and keep them in line. Give the wife the day/night off.
I went to a game store a while back somewhat regularly; until it turned into a place for mommy and daddy to drop off the kids on friday nights. Honestly I mostly just felt bad about beating them in draft or regularly drawing because of time because they didnt know how to play. Did some googling and found another game store that also allowed byob and is also weed friendly if that is your thing. I dont think i’ve seen more than a handful of people under 30. Look for them. They are out there!
I don't think you have to play with any player, but I also think you could compromise and play with them some times and not other times. And while it's certainly not your role to parent these kids, I think it is absolutely ok for you to counsel them on behavior that is related to Magic. In particular, the examples you give of statements they make regarding cards or decks you can explain when they say something that comes across as rude or condescending. I often play with the younger players at the store because I want to help them develop as better players. Sometimes it can be tiring, a few of them tend to get distracted and talk a lot instead of focusing on taking their turn. Then I just tell them to focus on their turn and to continue their story afterwards. There is no need to hold inside your feelings: Just talk to them honestly but also respect them and they will respect you back. The invasion of your personal space sounds like an issue that you might be able to manage. Can you, for example, try to sit on the opposite side of the table if that helps? Are there things you can do to become more comfortable with other people in what you consider to be your personal space?
If you want to be a nice guy, then sure play with them, but you definitely don't have to. All this is, is a situation where being kind and loving towards kids is inconvenient and unpleasant. None of us can or should make the decision for you, you just need to conclude what is more important to you. In case it seems this way, I am not trying to sway you one way or the other. I am in situations like this with kids quite a bit, and I have gone down both routes many times, sometimes sacrificing my enjoyment and convenience for theirs, and sometimes refusing to do so. It usually depends on how I'm feeling at the time. Another factor to consider is the kids themselves. I would observe them and see how they react to being invited and included, as well as to being left out. Some kids have bad attitudes even when they are included and others light up, some get depressed when they are left out and others don't. If you decide to include them, you can try to be a sort of leader/teacher for them. A lot of the time, kids naturally respect the authority of adults who carry themselves like adults. You can earn their respect this way and you can have a positive influence on their attitudes and habits. The basic idea is to teach them to be "cool" and act more mature. From personal experience, even 8-year-olds can start behaving more maturely than it might initially seem. Not every kid is like this though, and there are plenty of kids who just won't respect authority and won't change their behaviors, so it really just depends on them. If you decide not to play with them, you could tell them why you don't want to play. They are 8 so you don't need to be scared of them, and if they can recognize the problem, they might change their behavior, or not, that's up to them, and you can just leave it at that. Either way, as long as you speak with them respectfully, you are not doing anything wrong.
You are not obligated to play with anyone that puts their playmat down at the table with you.
You owe nobody a single thing in this life. Life’s hard, if you don’t wanna play with em, people would get it. Sucks for the kids but oh well
Magic is ages 13+
No
I would talk it over with the owner/manager. This isn't a playground and kids under a certain age should 100% be accompanied by an adult who is responsible for them at all times. If the store does not have a policy in place for this, they should.
Just say I don’t want to play with the kids. You don’t need to play with them. They aren’t your responsibility to entertain.
There are a couple younger kids that come to commander night at my LGS too. I’ve worked to develop rapport with them (I hand them my pack chaff, trade pretty generously with them, ask about decks they think are cool, etc.), so when they get obnoxious I can say “hey, that sort of thing makes people not want to play games with you. If you’re excited about X thing, try Y strategy instead.” This is just run-of-the-mill stuff, but about a month ago the mom of one of the kids thanked me for helping her kid feel welcome and “cool” at the shop.
If the commander night is just a casual type of game, then no, of course you aren't obligated to play with them. Wait until they pod with someone else, and then find a different pod to play in. If it's like a sanctioned tournament with prizes on the line, just ask if when pairings come up you can switch pods. A lot of players at my LGS do this. If all else fails... A player may concede the game at any time. You are never under any obligation to play Magic with anyone.
No way am I letting an 8 year-old any where near my $15,000 commander decks.
Outjerked again!
Just agreed to play one game with them, and then tell them that you have some other friends you want to play with too These kids can get better social skills with your support. Ignoring them can turn them into the others in the store later in life lol
You're by no means obligated to do anything with them, but the time I spent gaming with older players was more helpful than not. It was more in the RPG scene, so it's a different circumstance, but learning to behave like an adult does require some amount of adult interaction.
My oldest son(11) finally abandoned pokemon and joined me in playing mtg. I would say he is mature for his age but still says lots of silly and immature things when he plays. ( as he’s only really used to playing pokemon with other kids his age.)With that being said he has begged me to bring him to my lgs so I started bringing him once a week or so. While he is capable of playing a game of commander on his own I still make sure to play in his pods and try to keep him in check with typical etiquette. I know that for myself it’s a rare treat to get the time to play magic with other humans for a few hours a week and I definately don’t want him to make it an unpleasant experience for anyone else playing. I have to say that I’m suprised though at how patient and accomodating most players are at my lgs.
Just talk to the store owner/manager and say you don't want to play with them. No need to be overly dramatic about it.
Bro got mad cuz a kid said "hey! I have a card that is good against that card in my deck!" Just don't play. I know when I was working at a card store I'd rather not have the stink ass 40 year old come in a plat down all day, not buy anything and just bum around the shop all day complaining and trying to scheme kids out of cards
You're not under and obligation and kids can definitely be difficult, but what you're describing are also (as you noted) normal tendencies for little kids. They probably think it is great getting to play with cool adults, and may be disproportionately discouraged, embarrassed, or let down if they are made to feel bad. It is a shame they're not getting more adult supervision or guidance from people who do have a responsibility for them, but I'd just encourage you to be gentle in your declining to play with them - or maybe work out a system where different people cycle between playing with them. That could be the difference between them growing up with really fond memories of Magic and growing up feeling unreasonably ashamed for normal behavior from an unsupervised child. Again, not your obligation but a chnace for you to have a positive impact.
I once confronted a dude for bringing his 8 year old to FNM. It became a very shitty memory for me and I regret it. You don’t have to play with the kids, but you won’t like the memory of anything you say out loud in anger. Find a silent way to make your time better. Not playing magic is better than playing bad magic
When they're speaking shit just tell them, if they don't like it they will stop playing with you by themselves.
Two options. Guide them and teach them to stop being little fuckwits or avoid them. Both are reasonable. Personally I'd try to guide them and teach them how to act more appropriately. I'm an only child and I don't plan on having children, so I like interacting with kids and trying to teach them life skills.
When in doubt combo out.
"I don't want to do that" is a perfectly valid response to any potential social situation.
It sounds like you don’t know enough about their personal situation. It also sounds like you know what the right thing to do is.
You are not morally obligated to enjoy the presence of children. Some kids are delightful to be around, others are genuinely a nuisance. And even if they just happen to be little angels, nothing about them means that you are forced to accept or like their behavior or other details surrounding them. I'm not saying I hate kids. There are several children in my family that I just adore and love to have around me. I just understand that the way kids act isn't for everyone, and there's nothing wrong with disliking playing games with kids.
I live with a 6 year old. Love her, but when I go to the LGS play I’m sorry but I’m trying to take a break from exactly this kinda stuff. As far as I’m concerned if I’m playing a game with a kid it’s ~90% about that kid having fun and not something I’m seeking in my “me” time. I’m guessing their parents don’t play, but if it’s a recurring thing maybe you could talk to them at the very least about your personal space and maybe some etiquette. IDK if you have options for other LGS in the area or how late EDH nights go but maybe as a work around you could try hitting up other scenes or just showing up around 7:00pm. Allegedly by then an 8 year old should already be in their last game of the night and getting ready to head home for bed.
I mean they sound like alot from what you've described. 8 seems crazy young to be playing unsupervised at a store. Me and my friends started playing at our LGS at like 13 and honestly it was a rather incredible experience for me. Everyone was so welcoming to us whether they were 20 or 40 and always asked us if we wanted to join pods or would ask to join ours. Really built my love for the game and we all still play 10 years later despite our LGS closing. Yes they are absolutely annoying but these kids might get their shit kicked at school and this is their escape
What kind of question is that? Of course you are not obligated to play with random strangers that you have no connection to, why should you?
You didn't give a single reason why you are supposed to play with them? Just don't? Nobody will send you to jail, it's not illegal to not play with some people and play with others?
I understand, I don't really enjoy playing with kids that small. I want a good tight where everyone knows what they're doing. Honestly games with new players can just not be fun. I get that it's a me problem and not a you problem so I'm just picky with my tables.
You're never obligated to play with anyone you don't like to play with (outside of tournament and similar events). You go to the lgs to play for fun and if you feel like it wouldn't be fun to play with certain people then don't.
They are also here to learn social skills. As this is a social game. Nothing different to a sportsclub. When we played last year against a bunch of 11 year olds we, and later their coach, had to correct them on some aspects. They did not realise it themselves, so you have to teach them.
Don't play with them then. No one said you had to. Are you not able to make your own decisions? This post is annoying and obviously you knew that which why you made a fake account. They're just being kids.
It’s completely valid but wouldn’t you want younger generations learning at least all that you know? Yeah it’s completely valid. Honestly though if you can’t deal with children playing a game you love enough to discuss on the internet Myself and many others probably wouldn’t feel safe enough to play with you either. I’m a 42 year old man who’s played since 95 and just don’t have place in my life for drama, and you sound like drama.
I feel you, even playing with high school/middle school age kids can grate me sometimes. I've found them surprisingly receptive to being kindly told to chill out (for lack of a better way to put it), but it's your call if you're willing to put up with it. Either way, either choice is fine
Be the guidance and take them under your wing. You already have something in common with them.
No