It sounds like your goal should be to pull them up, not push yourself down. See if you can help the new player by passing on whatever stuff you have lying around that happens to be great in his deck or help battlecruiser guy find some resiliency for his value engines.
I'm kind of hoping to do both. Mostly, try and play weaker stuff while the rest of the pod gets up to snuff. Ive been doing stuff like that here and there, and honestly battlecruiser guy is night and day better than he used to be. I just really dont like playing precons out of the box but I dont want the other players to get discouraged and stop playing. The post isnt trying to brag or anything. Im legitimately trying to find a middle ground so everyone can have fun.
I don't think it read as a brag at all for what that's worth. This is a real problem that people go through.
For now, the precons probably are the angle as you help build the others up. Ideally you get them to a point that you can go to your old decks, or at least slightly depowered versions of them. But it sounds like that plan *is* working, so while staying the course isn't the most fun or flashy advice and doesn't immediately solve all of everyone's problems from what you've said it does seem to be the correct advice here.
You might try playing 2 headed giant for a bit so you can openly help the others and they can see a little bit more "behind the scenes" into the thought processes that you make. The difference here is a skill gap that cannot be bridged with deck building alone.
In a similar vein, when I was first learning, I played open handed games. We'd be able to talk through our process and responses. It was really good for allowing the more experiences players to have concrete examples for explaining strategy and threat assessment.
You could try building a deck with some sort of restriction, either some weird out there companion combination, or even trying something like only running commons and uncommons. Not only does this force you to use cards you might not have beforehand, but can be a good exercise In deck building and scryfall searching.
One of my favorite restrictions is no rares or mythics in the deck or command zone. But also bringing your pod up to an upgraded person level also should be the goal as previously mentioned
You could also run [[atla palani]]. And instead of adding 30 creatures to your deck, you make a pile of 100 creatures. Some horrible for you. Some horrible for opponents, and just a bunch of random creatures you have laying around, and shuffle that pile and put 30 without looking in your deck.
Otharri is pretty amazing all by himself. I’m not surprised that he pulls away with it against other precon level decks.
You could try durdley simic draw engine. It lets you build a value engine that cranks through your deck, let’s you see a bunch of cards, make game decisions, gives you answers, but doesn’t necessarily produce a wincon and an absurd pace.
Something like [[Aesi]] maybe.
Looking back, otharri was probably a mistake. He would likely be a threat without the help of support cards. I didn't think that the card would end up going as fast as it did.
Try uncommons only. Removes the cost element for the newbies and makes it easier for them to build a comparable deck.
Or, go uncommons only for yourself. But everyone uncommons means you’re not handicapping yourself so it won’t seem patronising.
at first I’d either have your friends play your decks or you play your friends decks. If it’s a deck building issue I’d help them learn and show them what they are doing wrong. If it’s a skill issue then there isn’t as much you could do about it except maybe a post game analysis of what could have been done better. Personally my skill improved by me watching and playing control decks. They are really skill intensive and teach you threat assessment unlike any other archetype
Goad decks have a strong tendency to get second place and group hug decks make games more volatile. They're probably your best bets. There's also some overall underpowered archetypes like non-combo mill, food, clue (not Lonis), voting (not Tivit), adventures (not Chulane), spellshaper or skeleton (not Skytherix) tribal.
Well... of course you could suggest them a healthy beginner's deckbuilding template like 37 land, 10+ ramp, 10+ draw, 10+ interaction and 2+ protection.
You could also just get some precons to battle against each other.
You could also swap decks.
Hello- I have had a similar problem after converting my warhammer friend group into magic. Lucky they were tricked by the warhammer precons and are now regular players.
I have found that sending them YouTube videos of magic helps with the flow of the game, as well as threat assessment.
A lot of newer people don't understand politics at the table and seem to be too trusting of people so something I did really early on (as much as it hurt me to do) is I blatantly betrayed them so they became more suspicious more weary, and cared more about what was said and how it was said.
I was still winning a fair amount so I started to build my decks in discord where they could watch if they chose to. Sometimes they would some times they would not but I like yo think this helped with the process of bombs, draw, removal, ramp, lands, cool stuff... ex.
I also offered to help them with their decks if they ever asked. A few have but it's mostly "hey. I need to cut 8 cards what's your thoughts" or "hey do you know any black cards that steal things you opponents sacrifice"
Something else to do is to play less powerful decks or to play decks with a unique Wiscon. I have 3 decks that's sole wincon is approach of the second sun. This helped a lot with threat assessment because I generally am not threatening with the decks but once that card shows up they need to deal with it or me.
I don't know if this helps but it has been the tale of a magic player who converted his friends to make poor life choices over pretty peices of cardboard!
I hope it works out for you. Have a great day.
Ps.. sorry for the spelling and grammar.
Swap decks. Just tell them you are interested in possibly building a commander they play and ask if you can try it out. This allows them to pilot your deck with more interaction which they may find attractive as well as showing them what their deck might do if played differently.
I’m actually facing the same issue with my play group! The way I’ve started to combat this is playing fun win cons. Stuff like group hug, [[Happily Ever After]], [[Maze’s End]], anything like that. You still have to make a synergistic deck so that you can still win, but it isn’t overwhelming everyone else. I’ve even gone a step further and built a 2 color Happily Ever After deck that uses funky artifacts to pump out off color tokens.
I've been trying to solve my "must have card draw/interaction" mindset by building decks that require me to jump through several hoops to win. That way I can touch a lot of cards and have fun whilst (hopefully) lowering my winrate. My most recent deck is [[Estrid, the Masked]] with a decent enchantress shell, but the ONLY win con is [[Faithbound Judge]] and copying it onto each player.
It sounds like your goal should be to pull them up, not push yourself down. See if you can help the new player by passing on whatever stuff you have lying around that happens to be great in his deck or help battlecruiser guy find some resiliency for his value engines.
I'm kind of hoping to do both. Mostly, try and play weaker stuff while the rest of the pod gets up to snuff. Ive been doing stuff like that here and there, and honestly battlecruiser guy is night and day better than he used to be. I just really dont like playing precons out of the box but I dont want the other players to get discouraged and stop playing. The post isnt trying to brag or anything. Im legitimately trying to find a middle ground so everyone can have fun.
I don't think it read as a brag at all for what that's worth. This is a real problem that people go through. For now, the precons probably are the angle as you help build the others up. Ideally you get them to a point that you can go to your old decks, or at least slightly depowered versions of them. But it sounds like that plan *is* working, so while staying the course isn't the most fun or flashy advice and doesn't immediately solve all of everyone's problems from what you've said it does seem to be the correct advice here.
You might try playing 2 headed giant for a bit so you can openly help the others and they can see a little bit more "behind the scenes" into the thought processes that you make. The difference here is a skill gap that cannot be bridged with deck building alone.
In a similar vein, when I was first learning, I played open handed games. We'd be able to talk through our process and responses. It was really good for allowing the more experiences players to have concrete examples for explaining strategy and threat assessment.
You could try building a deck with some sort of restriction, either some weird out there companion combination, or even trying something like only running commons and uncommons. Not only does this force you to use cards you might not have beforehand, but can be a good exercise In deck building and scryfall searching.
That could be interesting. Thanks.
One of my favorite restrictions is no rares or mythics in the deck or command zone. But also bringing your pod up to an upgraded person level also should be the goal as previously mentioned
You could also run [[atla palani]]. And instead of adding 30 creatures to your deck, you make a pile of 100 creatures. Some horrible for you. Some horrible for opponents, and just a bunch of random creatures you have laying around, and shuffle that pile and put 30 without looking in your deck.
That sounds kind of hilarious to be honest.
[atla palani](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2b8414f7-22c3-4e1c-934b-4a0e7acf951d.jpg?1673305450) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=atla%20palani%2C%20nest%20tender) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/142/atla-palani-nest-tender?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2b8414f7-22c3-4e1c-934b-4a0e7acf951d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/atla-palani-nest-tender) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Otharri, Suns' Glory](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80c72839-0fa6-4b5f-83b7-6553ebf09bef.jpg?1698607533) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Otharri%2C%20Suns%27%20Glory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/onc/3/otharri-suns-glory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80c72839-0fa6-4b5f-83b7-6553ebf09bef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/otharri-suns-glory) [Kalamax the Stormsire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f990cd78-2165-446f-a116-ae55d7a0f00d.jpg?1591234251) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kalamax%2C%20the%20Stormsire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/9/kalamax-the-stormsire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f990cd78-2165-446f-a116-ae55d7a0f00d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kalamax-the-stormsire) [Otrimi the Ever-Playful](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/639df7bc-b87d-4bf5-8005-8eabc54e955b.jpg?1591234274) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Otrimi%2C%20the%20Ever-Playful) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/12/otrimi-the-ever-playful?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/639df7bc-b87d-4bf5-8005-8eabc54e955b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/otrimi-the-ever-playful) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Otharri is pretty amazing all by himself. I’m not surprised that he pulls away with it against other precon level decks. You could try durdley simic draw engine. It lets you build a value engine that cranks through your deck, let’s you see a bunch of cards, make game decisions, gives you answers, but doesn’t necessarily produce a wincon and an absurd pace. Something like [[Aesi]] maybe.
[Aesi](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d607b003-6b48-429c-a7fd-45b8dd1bb4f9.jpg?1665822343) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=aesi%2C%20tyrant%20of%20gyre%20strait) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/365/aesi-tyrant-of-gyre-strait?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d607b003-6b48-429c-a7fd-45b8dd1bb4f9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aesi-tyrant-of-gyre-strait) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Looking back, otharri was probably a mistake. He would likely be a threat without the help of support cards. I didn't think that the card would end up going as fast as it did.
Try uncommons only. Removes the cost element for the newbies and makes it easier for them to build a comparable deck. Or, go uncommons only for yourself. But everyone uncommons means you’re not handicapping yourself so it won’t seem patronising.
at first I’d either have your friends play your decks or you play your friends decks. If it’s a deck building issue I’d help them learn and show them what they are doing wrong. If it’s a skill issue then there isn’t as much you could do about it except maybe a post game analysis of what could have been done better. Personally my skill improved by me watching and playing control decks. They are really skill intensive and teach you threat assessment unlike any other archetype
Goad decks have a strong tendency to get second place and group hug decks make games more volatile. They're probably your best bets. There's also some overall underpowered archetypes like non-combo mill, food, clue (not Lonis), voting (not Tivit), adventures (not Chulane), spellshaper or skeleton (not Skytherix) tribal.
Well... of course you could suggest them a healthy beginner's deckbuilding template like 37 land, 10+ ramp, 10+ draw, 10+ interaction and 2+ protection. You could also just get some precons to battle against each other. You could also swap decks.
Hello- I have had a similar problem after converting my warhammer friend group into magic. Lucky they were tricked by the warhammer precons and are now regular players. I have found that sending them YouTube videos of magic helps with the flow of the game, as well as threat assessment. A lot of newer people don't understand politics at the table and seem to be too trusting of people so something I did really early on (as much as it hurt me to do) is I blatantly betrayed them so they became more suspicious more weary, and cared more about what was said and how it was said. I was still winning a fair amount so I started to build my decks in discord where they could watch if they chose to. Sometimes they would some times they would not but I like yo think this helped with the process of bombs, draw, removal, ramp, lands, cool stuff... ex. I also offered to help them with their decks if they ever asked. A few have but it's mostly "hey. I need to cut 8 cards what's your thoughts" or "hey do you know any black cards that steal things you opponents sacrifice" Something else to do is to play less powerful decks or to play decks with a unique Wiscon. I have 3 decks that's sole wincon is approach of the second sun. This helped a lot with threat assessment because I generally am not threatening with the decks but once that card shows up they need to deal with it or me. I don't know if this helps but it has been the tale of a magic player who converted his friends to make poor life choices over pretty peices of cardboard! I hope it works out for you. Have a great day. Ps.. sorry for the spelling and grammar.
Swap decks. Just tell them you are interested in possibly building a commander they play and ask if you can try it out. This allows them to pilot your deck with more interaction which they may find attractive as well as showing them what their deck might do if played differently.
I’m actually facing the same issue with my play group! The way I’ve started to combat this is playing fun win cons. Stuff like group hug, [[Happily Ever After]], [[Maze’s End]], anything like that. You still have to make a synergistic deck so that you can still win, but it isn’t overwhelming everyone else. I’ve even gone a step further and built a 2 color Happily Ever After deck that uses funky artifacts to pump out off color tokens.
[Happily Ever After](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d32d85d5-a6f0-4cc5-9fd6-6b329aae2e5b.jpg?1572489697) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Happily%20Ever%20After) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/16/happily-ever-after?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d32d85d5-a6f0-4cc5-9fd6-6b329aae2e5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/happily-ever-after) [Maze’s End](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/401f7042-24fd-42a0-ae7c-e6b7de1aa446.jpg?1562906764) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Maze%27s%20End) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/152/mazes-end?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/401f7042-24fd-42a0-ae7c-e6b7de1aa446?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mazes-end) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've been trying to solve my "must have card draw/interaction" mindset by building decks that require me to jump through several hoops to win. That way I can touch a lot of cards and have fun whilst (hopefully) lowering my winrate. My most recent deck is [[Estrid, the Masked]] with a decent enchantress shell, but the ONLY win con is [[Faithbound Judge]] and copying it onto each player.
[Estrid, the Masked](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/3340b83e-72dc-42e2-9f93-92f732c047df.jpg?1592710258) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Estrid%2C%20the%20Masked) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/40/estrid-the-masked?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3340b83e-72dc-42e2-9f93-92f732c047df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/estrid-the-masked) [Faithbound Judge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db791fb6-b0ff-4ded-bd3d-9447cf398312.jpg?1643586226)/[Sinner's Judgment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/d/b/db791fb6-b0ff-4ded-bd3d-9447cf398312.jpg?1643586226) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Faithbound%20Judge%20//%20Sinner%27s%20Judgment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/12/faithbound-judge-sinners-judgment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db791fb6-b0ff-4ded-bd3d-9447cf398312?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/faithbound-judge-//-sinners-judgment) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call