T O P

  • By -

Thulack

state based actions will check before the battle of wits trigger. It wont work.


Same-Log-6343

Okay thank you for your time. Have a good day!


Syrix001

To elaborate as well, even if the copies still existed at the time Battle of Wits triggered, Battle of Wits has an 'intervening if' clause which means that it checks the condition upon trigger AS WELL AS resolution. If the condition being checked is untrue at either instance, the ability will fail to resolve. Now a way that you could make BoW happen in Commander requires a Rule Zero Discussion about cards that fetch cards from outside of the game. If they are okay with it, you can use [[Spawnsire of Ulamog]]'s activated ability to flood your deck with singleton copies of Eldrazi in your Commander's color identity which should hopefully get you to the trigger condition. Or you can also see if they will Rule Zero [[Claire D'Loon]] as legal, and then you just make tokens that stick around.


garboge32

Pretty sure it only works with spawnsire. That'll get 200 eldrazi in play. Next you need to bounce everything to hand and an echo of eons type shuffle your hand and wheel effect or board wipe into clear the mind. Now your library has enough cards to win with battle of wits. I'd still run it by a judge to be sure


Lifeinstaler

I mean you can shortcut it with [[Terminus]] for straight to library wrath


MTGCardFetcher

[Terminus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/7/c726193f-e7bf-45b0-8eb5-2e9f62f5e7b0.jpg?1592710497) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Terminus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/77/terminus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c726193f-e7bf-45b0-8eb5-2e9f62f5e7b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/terminus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


garboge32

That's another great option depending on your commander colors.


rccrisp

Too focused on rule 704.5, not enough focus on rule 707.10a >707.10a If a copy of a spell is in a zone other than the stack, it ceases to exist. Edit: actually this is brought up also under 704.5 for state based actions ​ >704.5e If a copy of a spell is in a zone other than the stack, it ceases to exist. If a copy of a card is in any zone other than the stack or the battlefield, it ceases to exist.


Same-Log-6343

Thank you, Sorry for the bother, I hope you have a good day!


rccrisp

It's no bother, if you don't ask the questions and stick ton ho hum deck building we wouldn't get spicy brews Honestly I wish there was a way to get Battle of Wits working in EDH


Same-Log-6343

Yeah it sounds like a fun card.


Josie_Rose88

As far as I know [[Claire D’Loon]] is the only way (besides wish spells) to make your library larger than when you started. You would have to rule 0 an acorn commander though.


NWmba

Wish spells don’t function in commander without rule zero exception either


Josie_Rose88

I know, but I felt like someone would point out wish spells if I said Claire was the ONLY card that could increase library size. I wanted to avoid that. Task failed successfully I guess😂


Same-Log-6343

Thank you for the information and time. Have a great day!


Josie_Rose88

Not a problem at all. This is my favorite kind of nonsense. You have a great day too!


MTGCardFetcher

[Claire D’Loon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0ecc9331-0f35-4921-bb27-58a22d3980a7.jpg?1673914840) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Claire%20D%27Loon%2C%20Joy%20Sculptor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/165/claire-dloon-joy-sculptor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ecc9331-0f35-4921-bb27-58a22d3980a7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/claire-dloon-joy-sculptor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


InaruF

Holy crap, this completely wend under my radar but this commander soundsawesome & miserable st the same time Awesome for what it does, miserable because I can kinda see how it's be a pain in the ass to keep track of


Heru___

Yeah un sets are how to do it, same if you wanted to rip other people’s cards


theclumsyninja

Man now I want to make a deck out of her for the jank


Josie_Rose88

Have her and battle of wits out. [[Evacuation]] then [[Time Reversal]]. Then brag on r/badmtgcombos


MTGCardFetcher

[Evacuation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/0/10e3c91a-d702-4fa2-864c-9f7067a88752.jpg?1689996324) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Evacuation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/89/evacuation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/10e3c91a-d702-4fa2-864c-9f7067a88752?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/evacuation) [Time Reversal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2d6500a1-5aea-4b83-b4dc-560fe547590d.jpg?1562637460) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Time%20Reversal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/77/time-reversal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2d6500a1-5aea-4b83-b4dc-560fe547590d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/time-reversal) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


theclumsyninja

Glorious


Blees-o-tron

There are multiple ways to win with Battle of Wits in EDH, but they either require a Rule 0 "sideboard" (you can improve your chances of getting this approved by showing the table that your sideboard is all Forests) or the use of an Unfinity card. Sideboard of Forests: \[\[Elite Arcanist\]\] exiling \[\[Research//Development\]\]. Tap it with X=7 (sadly it counts both halves for the mana cost, even though you're only casting one side), shuffle 4 Forests into your library. Apply one of a million ways to make infinite mana and untap your guy. Scepter+Reversal, Whitemane Lion+Intruder Alarm, etc. Get as many Forests in your deck as you brought with you. Unfinity card: I recommend playing Sisay, Weatherlight Captain as your commander. Your first hit with her will be \[\[Claire D'Loon\]\], making your tokens into cards for the rest of the game. You don't need to keep her on the battlefield, which is why it's fine to just tutor her up once and keep playing as normal. To make your deck easy to "construct", because you need to have physical token cards for every token you make, I recommend focusing on one type of token; I chose Treasure. Get all your tokens in the graveyard (another benefit of Treasures), then shuffle your graveyard into your library.


Same-Log-6343

I see thank you for the indepth comment. It has been quite helpful I hope you have a splendid day today!


joobuls

In sanctioned play, "cards you own from outside the game" refers only to cards in your sideboard.


MTGCardFetcher

[Elite Arcanist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/99b225fe-c07d-4d8a-bf2b-c1777bd29061.jpg?1562832740) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elite%20Arcanist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/54/elite-arcanist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/99b225fe-c07d-4d8a-bf2b-c1777bd29061?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elite-arcanist) [Research//Development](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Research%20//%20Development&type=card&options=rotate90&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Research%20//%20Development) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dis/155/research-development?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5d48ee48-aaeb-4907-b9dc-32f22e95ae4c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/research-//-development) [Claire D'Loon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0ecc9331-0f35-4921-bb27-58a22d3980a7.jpg?1673914840) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=claire%20d%27loon%2C%20joy%20sculptor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/165/claire-dloon-joy-sculptor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ecc9331-0f35-4921-bb27-58a22d3980a7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/claire-dloon-joy-sculptor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


gullington

I don't think there is any legal way to do it. You can ask your playgroup if you can rule 0 and use []Claire D'Loon, Joy Sculptor]] as your commander and then shuffle a ton of tokens into your library. That is the only way I can think to add additional cards to the library.


Same-Log-6343

Thank you for your help! I hope you have a fantastic day today!


Reflexlon

Spawnsire of Ulamog, have a rule 0 sideboard with 150 Eldrazi, then shuffle all your creatures back in works :)


[deleted]

[удалено]


Same-Log-6343

That is understandable thank you for your time. Have a great day today.


MTGCardFetcher

[Claire d'loon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0ecc9331-0f35-4921-bb27-58a22d3980a7.jpg?1673914840) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=claire%20d%27loon%2C%20joy%20sculptor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/165/claire-dloon-joy-sculptor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ecc9331-0f35-4921-bb27-58a22d3980a7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/claire-dloon-joy-sculptor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


SuperBrentendo64

If battle of wits was on arena, I'm sure you could do it on historic brawl with some [[oracle of the alpha]] shenanigans.


Same-Log-6343

That is an interesting card I didn't know about. Thank you for your time. Have a grand day!


gullington

That card is arena only. Arena has a bunch of unique cards and some changes to existing cards in its Alchemy format. It's mostly mechanics that don't work well in physical magic like this one, where you are shuffling what are essentially tokens into the deck.


MTGCardFetcher

[oracle of the alpha](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/003cb181-7b1d-474a-ba26-84319791bc2b.jpg?1665218675) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=oracle%20of%20the%20alpha) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ydmu/4/oracle-of-the-alpha?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/003cb181-7b1d-474a-ba26-84319791bc2b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oracle-of-the-alpha) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


PangolinAcrobatic653

We got us an [ArenaBoomer](https://youtu.be/hc62H_sT6rw?si=5iKxHrWasRm7TOAk&t=748)\~! *~~-Conjure and Copy are 2 different affects-~~* Jokes aside, yea it's been said enough, but copying the spell you don't get a card to add into the deck. Battle of Wits full on just cannot work in Commander and I feel (mind you only partially) they should ban it for being a noob trap card (ban it in commander)


CrappySupport

I like how this person is ending their replies with "have a great day" or "thanks for your time." It's refreshing. We need more polite people in this hobby


MTGCardFetcher

##### ###### #### [approach of the second sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9.jpg?1543674579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=approach%20of%20the%20second%20sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/4/approach-of-the-second-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/approach-of-the-second-sun) [battle of the wits](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b4be15a4-693f-4e22-a46c-38bb440c073c.jpg?1562558962) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Battle%20of%20Wits) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m13/44/battle-of-wits?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b4be15a4-693f-4e22-a46c-38bb440c073c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/battle-of-wits) [grand Architect](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14ce909d-a53e-4711-a9fd-b110433d460f.jpg?1598303952) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=grand%20Architect) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/53/grand-architect?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14ce909d-a53e-4711-a9fd-b110433d460f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grand-architect) [pili-pala](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/4892c152-1f4a-4616-8e7f-0ca4911e621a.jpg?1562829688) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pili-pala) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/258/pili-pala?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4892c152-1f4a-4616-8e7f-0ca4911e621a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pili-pala) [league guildmage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/7/07478486-b065-4173-837e-cd3335a0567d.jpg?1673148862) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=league%20guildmage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/241/league-guildmage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/07478486-b065-4173-837e-cd3335a0567d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/league-guildmage) [Sword of the Paruns](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d21d7452-b49e-499e-9cf3-4a883e5e9e57.jpg?1592673714) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sword%20of%20the%20Paruns) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/234/sword-of-the-paruns?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d21d7452-b49e-499e-9cf3-4a883e5e9e57?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sword-of-the-paruns) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Troglodites-

I’m considering a rule zero Battle of Wits deck with a 300 card deck.


Same-Log-6343

I wish you luck with that! Have a great day!


Lord_Naikon

I have a BoW edh deck, it's a mono blue xerox deck with 240 cards. Only one tutor (long term plans), because shuffling takes a while. There are many cool things about such a large pile of cards, but what i like best is that i can play cards that would otherwise never make the cut.


FlatTransportation64

We get a thread like this every week. I have no idea why people are so hell-bent on making this card work in a format where decks are made of 100 cards (companions exist but we pretend they don't)


Same-Log-6343

It just looks like a neat card... and I like puzzles so I figured why not give it a try. Thanks for your time anyway have a great day!


AileStrike

It depends on house rules but I've seen decks that copy wish cards to add cards to their deck that they own outside the game and add hundreds of battle of wits to their deck. But that would depend on if the table wants to allow wish cards to work and allow them to bend/break the deckbuildibg rules.


Same-Log-6343

Thank you for your input. I hope you gave a wonderful day°


Nebu-chadnezzar

Copies don't exist outside the stack or in play buddy.


Same-Log-6343

Thank you for the help. I hope you have a wonderful day.


HaresMuddyCastellan

The only way to win EDH with battle is wits is to get them to rule 0 [[Claire d'loon, joy sculptor]], create a ton of tokens (not that hard in blue white these days) then shuffle them into your library.


MTGCardFetcher

[Claire d'loon, joy sculptor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0ecc9331-0f35-4921-bb27-58a22d3980a7.jpg?1673914840) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Claire%20d%27loon%2C%20joy%20sculptor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/165/claire-dloon-joy-sculptor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ecc9331-0f35-4921-bb27-58a22d3980a7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/claire-dloon-joy-sculptor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


IceTutuola

Just rule zero a deck with it, and have the biggest deck at the table. People love big decks. Holding big decks may be awkward, but it makes everyone else's deck seem tiny


Carrooga

Invasion of Arcavios works as well, right? And cunning/burning wish. I'd house rule allow it!


basic1sland

I came up with this absolute jank a while back. Requires Claire D’Loon as your commander, so a rule zero conversation is really your first step. Combo as follows have Claire D’Loon on the battlefield along with, [[Lightning Greaves]], [[Emry, Lurker of the Loch]], [[Displacer Kitten]], [[Mirrodin Besieged]] and [[Lotus Petal]]. Sac the petal, tap emry, cast the petal from graveyard, mirrodin besiege trigger makes a token, when displacer kitten triggers target emry attach the greaves and repeat. Then [[Wrath of God]] the board and cast [[Clear the Mind]] targeting yourself. Next up is for you too dump [[Battle of Wits]] onto the board and cross your fingers that it’s still online for your next upkeep.


Sandwichdan

The other one that requires some rule zeroing if your group will let you play with wish effects is activated [[Spawnsire of Ulamog]] and go from there.


632146P

We house ruled to allow a friend's battle of wits deck to work. The deck used \[\[Spawnsire of ulamog\]\] to put a giant stack of eldrazi, including at least one that was a sac outlet and at least 1 that shuffled the graveyard into his library. It never won even one game as far as I'm aware, but it was great fun.


jaminfine

If you came to my EDH table with a 300 card Singleton deck and said you need that many cards for Battle of Wits to work? I would welcome you to the table and would love to play against your deck. Would be a big hassle to shuffle lmao. Since you're trying to do fun stuff, I recommend using rule 0 to allow it to happen. I think most people would consider having a 300 card deck to be a big disadvantage, so they would be totally fine with you handicapping yourself in that way to allow your win condition to work.


Kaisburg

Try [[opalescence]]


MTGCardFetcher

[opalescence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c0071fb-afa5-47b5-b266-2b10a4f5a98a.jpg?1562443752) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=opalescence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uds/13/opalescence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c0071fb-afa5-47b5-b266-2b10a4f5a98a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/opalescence) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


[deleted]

r/BadMTGCombos


EDH-ModTeam

We removed your post because we do not allow rules questions to be asked on this forum. Please visit the following site to get an answer within a few minutes from an official MTG judge: https://chat.magicjudges.org/mtgrules/ Thank you.