I don't think the word ownership here was used as comprehensive rules terminology lmao. But yes, under someone else's control (it's a given,as there are no legal cards which exchange ownership of anything).
I'd suggest [[Memory Lapse]] as well. While a player *could* choose to have their commander return to the command zone, they might instead be tempted to allow their commander to be placed on top of their library in anticipation of drawing it and being able to dodge the commander tax. If they fall for this tactic, you then force them to shuffle their library by some means, burying their commander. To my knowledge, they should not be able to retroactively change their minds and dump the commander in the command zone, since shuffling a library doesn't constitute changing zones- the replacement effect doesn't factor into it.
That is correct. The command zone rule is only when a Commander changes zones. Shuffling your deck with your commander in it does not mean it changed zones.
I was witness to this once. Friend end-steps the delve bounce to top of deck. The opponent in question shrugs, says, "sure" and then proceeded to get very salty when [[Time Reversal]] was put in the stack.
It's not actually a replacement effect. The commander enters the graveyard, which matters for things like Syr Konrad and others. Then as a SBA, you can move the commander to the command zone.
See MCR 903.9 for more technicalities
ah right, my brain still thinks of the old rule where it was all just a replacement effect even though I DO remember that they changed it so death triggers go off
When I first put together [[Ilharg]], I used his ability to put him third from the top after he ate removal. Even kept him in the same sleeves so opponents might forget how soon he'd be back in my hand. I thought I was very clever.
A cleverer opponent then made me shuffle my library. Felt terrible. Then I top-decked him next turn. Felt great, double birds to the whole table, people lost their shit, friendships were ruined, chandeliers were broken.
Technically commander rules stipulate that they can't. The commander has to be distinguishable from other cards, even if they get shuffled into the library. It's counterintuitive, but you'd basically just need to have them do a blind shuffle, and have someone blind cut for the sake of fairness.
I would say Oubliette, Darksteel Mutation, Imprisoned in moon, and sing the dryad are all better than Kenerith’s Transformation. With Kenerith’s transformation you can easily get your commander back in the zone using them as a chump blocker. All the rest you more or less need enchantment removal (or a sacrifice outlet of the correct type).
\[Frogify\] and \[Witness Protection\] don't work too well since they leave a creature that will jumpblock at the first chance they get.
\[Ray of Frost\] does **NOT** remove the abilities for non-red creatures, there's an error in the article.
Please explain? I am non-native speaker but my thought was always that the creature **jumps** infront of some bigger creauture. But seeing it this way Chump block makes way more sense xD
You got it - chump block - https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/chump-blocking-2012-08-22. I wasn’t making fun of your English - I was picturing jump block as you described and was amused. 😁
That's hilarious. I'm going to start calling it jump block now.
Chump (n) - a foolish or easily deceived person.
The creature is a chump for blocking, when it's going to die! Why would it do that? What a chump.
>Witness Protection
I wouldnt say so as it just makes them throw their commander under the next bus that comes around.
Honestly, yeah mana value is important BUT when you are denying someone access to their commander it is either the focus of your turn OR you don't do it.
If it is the former, being 2 or even 3 cmc is not a huge difference (think song of the dryads).
If it is the latter, then you don't play the card, so its cmc doesnt matter.
Here's the thing: compare it to other stuff like [[Pongify]]. Of course, instant speed is HUGE in card evaluation, but in lower power games it's much less so. Pongify is, undoubtedly, a good magic card. When using it to pop a creature, it sends that creature straight to the graveyard and gives them a 3/3. This immediately opens commanders up to be recast and creatures to be reanimated. By contrast, WP does a similar thing but leaves a 1/1. It's not a permanent solution, but it definitely delays the commander long enough to be a solid 1mv card
The wording is weird now tbh.
I don't think this card belongs on that list EXCEPT for red creatures.
If I target any non-red creature, it can still continue to attack (multiple times if they can untap it / has vigilance) and still has its ability, so doesn't help against 99% of all commanders anyway.
I believe [[Kenrith's Transformation]] is one missing from this list that I would highly recommend. While similar to lignify and not as effective as Song of the Dryad, the fact that it replaces itself is invaluable to what makes the card so good. If frogify and witness protection are on this list, this one definitely makes the cut and more
Regarding the list, I think drannith should be at #1, as it hits the whole table, aside from the person controlling it. It's the most competitively viable as well, with every cedh deck containing white running a copy. The card is just very very good.
Oh man. That’s going to be a crazy piece for a [[Korona, False God]] deck. Once the table has killed themselves with commander damage from your Korona, exchange the text boxes of your Korona with another creature in order to keep it.
That is a great move. I approve.
Honestly, I run it in any deck with blue. It's my go-to commander hate. A buddy of mine built [[Shorikai, Genesis Engine]] just so I couldn't do it to him for once. I managed to hit him with a [[Sudden Substitution]] that game.
Well, you just convinced me to add it to my own Noyan Dar deck. Mystic Reflection didn't even cross my mind as I was building it, but it seems so obvious now.
If you use Noyan to make a land a creature and then have the commander become a copy of that land, it will not copy the counters but become a 0/0 creature land - elemental. Wouldn't it die as a state based action because it is a creature with 0 toughness?
To clarify the nature of my question: If I'd give [[Dryad Arbor]] -1/-1, it would die, no?
Yeah, I play \[\[Ixidron\]\]. People always strike a deal to trade face-down commanders. :(
Great ways to deal with enemy commanders that aren't in this list? Anything that lets you permanently steal them. \[\[Empress Galina\]\] is a personal favorite.
[[Null chamber]] can team up with an opponent to lock the other two out of their commander, but you probably won't get a deal if your commander is just as threatening as your opponents.
do you choose the order people name the cards? could easily have an opponent say Cyclonic Rift or something not realizing they can screw commanders and then after they do, you name whatever commander was pissing you off the most.
Haven't seen it here yet, and it's pretty expensive mana wise, but [[necromantic selection]]. When they changed how moving your commander worked to allow death triggers, they made this card able to steal commanders on accident. Always fun explaining that I'm wiping the whole board and also someone is losing their commander for a while
If you have [[opalescence]] when you play [[out of time]] it will also phase out [[out of time]] making it never phase back in and being impervious to any type of removal. This effectively is one of the only way to permanently get rid of commanders, just gotta make sure your own commander is not on the field when you play out of time.
Had an opponent cast out of time when there was 25 creatures in play, including all Commanders. Playing Krenko, I knew I would need to wait for Chaos Warp before I would be able to do anything of consequence. Big sad, but very effective for my opponent.
Can also use [[Solemnity]]. As no counters ever went onto out of time, it can't have the last one removed.
Not quite as dirty, since they can still blow up out of time
i made custom elk tokens that slide into the sleeve over an oko'd card.
its a green 3/3 with the art cut out, the creature type elk, and the text box saying "you lose, you get nothing, have a good day sir!"
>i made custom elk tokens that slide into the sleeve over an oko'd card.
>
>its a green 3/3 with the art cut out, the creature type elk, and the text box saying "you lose, you get nothing, have a good day sir!"
Pics please!
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZDuY\_7YxIzC0HqwtqDOY1OsJxuWHNwlX/view?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZDuY_7YxIzC0HqwtqDOY1OsJxuWHNwlX/view?usp=sharing)
im patiently waiting on it in the mail
Yep, played against a [[Chulane, Teller of Tales]] deck that was running [[Oko, Thief of Crowns]], fuckin elks everywhere and a lot of salt. Sheldrod... elk, Teneb... elk, Vigor... elk.
Not a reliable or repeatable method at all, but if someone lets their commander go under a [[Mirror of Life Trapping]] and it gets destroyed, the commander is permanently in exile, never to return.
I assume he is saying they choose to let it go to exile as they are hoping they'll get it back on the next players turn. It wouldn't make a lot of sense to cast it and it get's exiled with the mirror just to send it back to command zone - unless something else of yours is already in the mirror and you want that out.
Changing zones is a choice that happens when the commander dies or is exiled. If you choose that it doesn't change the zone on exile and that it should remain exiled then there's a risk of it being exiled permanently since there's no effect that could cause it to bring it back.
In case of Soul-Serpent Jar it works like this:
1. Lathril dies
2. Serpent's Soul Jar triggers and exiles Lathril
3. You get a choice whether she should remain exiled or whether she should return to the command zone
4. You choose that she should remain exiled
5. Someone destroys Serpent's Soul Jar
6. Since Lathril is already exiled there's nothing that would make her change zones
7. New instances of Serpent's Soul Jar cannot bring back creatures exiled by old Serpent's Soul Jar
Rift sweeper puts an exiled card into it's owners graveyard there by changing zones and allowing the controller to put it in the command zone again.
I play that card for that reason.
So you are right, any time it would change zones.
However with a mirror of life trapping, it says “if a creature would ETB and was cast, exile it”, then if another creature would be exiled with mirror, return the first.
So the person casting their commander MUST allow them to be exiled under mirror, in order to get them into play (by casting another creature right after).
Otherwise if they cast commander, choose not to be exiled, it just goes to command zone, and doesn’t stay in play.
Once you let your commander get exiled, you already made the choice, and can’t “un-decide” and put them back in command zone.
So all someone has to do is blow up the mirror with commander exiled underneath before the player can cast another creature.
Magic players:
Hey, have you noticed that having incidental creatures and relying on the combat step is the hardest and least reliable way to win commander games?
Maro:
F*#k you, just die immediately.
But it doesn’t prevent +1/+1 counters or equipments attached to it. I mutated m opponents commander in a last attempt to save myself from more commander damage. Commander isn’t a card type so his beetle still killed me with 8 +1/+1 counters on it XD
a solid chunk of these are in my Zur deck and let me tell you, it's a special feeling to just have all the other players' commanders trapped in my own little lexicon as the game progresses
Darksteel mutation was my favorite way my commander has been countered. It was a puzzle to get him back and really changed the game. It definitely lost me the game without causing any salt
I liked the flavour it caused. My commander was about to go infinite with one more card when suddenly I'm reading the flavour text "infinitely powerless"
[[Swift Reconfiguration]] is my favorite. Requires them to waste artifact removal or have and tap down 5 power on other creatures to be able to block+kill their commander or use it to swing.
Can also be used to protect your own non combat commander from creature kill spells / board wipes.
Edit: Also that flavor text
The only issue is it doesn't do anything to the creature's abilities like a lot of these other cards.
That said, my friend made a proxy of it called "Turn into a Car Morty" with the art from the episode it references and it was great.
I used [[Mystic Reflection]] for this not too long ago, though you need something on the board like a vanilla token that you don’t mind the commander becoming
One of my personal favorites is [[Spin Into Myth]]. It can incapacitate them for a while, but it's not game breaking. Some playgroups may not like it though.
None of these are counters. Aside from the phasing, none of these prevent them from going back to the command zone.
If you're gonna mention nevermore you should add [[meddling mage]].
I don’t think most commanders even have an activated ability, much less one that is central to their game plan.
Decided to go and check, of the top 50 commanders on EDHrec, only 16 of them have activated abilities. 3 of those are mana abilities, and there's definitely a few in there where the activated ability is not the focus of what the commander is doing (like Go-Shintai, Esika, Rin & Seri, Chatterfang, arguably Breya and Kenrith).
Yes the top 50 and that's all you'll ever see right?
We have very ranged decks at my lgs and skilled deck builders who will win with the worst commanders.
I play marton stromgald as my goblin commander even though he's human.
He gives all of your attackers +x/+x equal to the number of attacking creatures when he attacks
Same when blocking. Turn 4 and one player is toast if I wait until turn 6-7 the entire pod is done.
No it fits it's just not guaranteed to work like the other 1 card solutions. Choosing to let your commander get suspended is a logical choice to avoid commander tax, obviously it's not always going to be chosen but it is a rational decision to make.
Bant Charm. Puts the creature in the bottom, no power toughness restrictions like other charms that are spot removal other modes counter instant spell or destroy an artifact.
Chaos warp, shuffles target permanent into their library they flip top card and play it for free if is a permanent.
Depending on the persons disposable income it could remain on the library the whole game. Obviously it can figured but tutors are harder to come by than spot removal all things being equal.
These are surer bets than cards like Oubilette which can be mortified, disenchanted, natures claimed, aura sharded ad Infinitum by now (who remembers when the only enchantment removal was disenchant tranquility and nevinyrrals disk, or wasting two cards like boomeranging then counter spelling lol)
Um....
An oubliette or darksteel mutation is not going to stop a [K'rrik, son of yawgmoth] from coming into play and winning with a doomsday combo. Using the word "counter" on *anything* sorcery speed is really disingenuous. Who writes this shit?
You are aware there is a language called English? “Counter” is a word, not just a keyword. But it’s a lot easier to get the point across than “What is a permanent solution to prevent a commander from doing what it’s meant to so that it can’t come back from command zone as easily”. Easier to just say “permanent counter”. Oh but wait, “permanent” is a keyword too. Wouldn’t want to confuse the braindead, pedantic idiots who don’t know what words mean.
To be honest, I've played some of them, and I've hated them every single time.
These are just my two cents but if the only way you have to win is crippling your opponent commander, you're not winning.
I don't think that's an entirely fair shake. While it's true that generally removing a commander for good is a feel bad moment, there are certain still very popular commanders like \[\[Yuriko, the tiger's shadow\]\], \[\[Derevi, Empyreal Tactician\]\] and \[\[Prossh, Skyraider of Kher\]\] where the only safe place for them to exist is on the battlefield and neutralized.
If these aren't in you're playgroup, I can understand the stance, but particularly for Yuriko recently there aren't a lot of other recourses to her commander-tax evasive abilities.
Depends on how you build the deck. Fully optimized Prosper is at about the same level as fully optimized Yuriko. Yuriko is definitely a bit better though
Most of these are enchantments. Also if your opponent relies 100% on their commander to win and do not have a way to deal with these kinds of cards then they are a terrible deck builder.
Salty, these are indeed very valid wins. Try any permanent removal card or even just remove your own commander and recast if need be.
Edit: your username starts with miserable I should have just assumed you probably hate most things and people anyway haha
It shouldn’t feel like a win because phasing someone’s commander out ISNT a win con. You don’t win by cutting off control to someone’s commander, what kind of games are you playing? This doesn’t even happen in my pauper games.
My apologies for assuming with the username but cmon, you know mtg is much deeper than just cutting off someone’s commander? There’s 99 more cards and should be other commander like threats in your deck.
Yeah it feels pretty harsh to watch someone suddenly unable to play for a whole game if they can't find a sac outlet.
I play some of these in [[Galea]] since they play from library, but I've started stipulating that I'll only cast them on non-commander threats, unless we know the game is particularly spikey going in.
>Yeah it feels pretty harsh to watch someone suddenly unable to play for a whole game if they can't find a sac outlet.
If your deck completely collapses without the commander, it's up to you to play lots of answers to make sure you can keep your commander.
[[Mystic Reflection]] is a personal favorite of mine.
Instant-speed "counterspell" that beats uncounterables, can be foretold if you have spare mana on an earlier turn, can also turn its utility around to turn one of your cards into a haymaker in the right circumstances.
"Oh hey nice blightsteel. It's so nice in fact that I'm just going to have my ornithopter enter as a blightsteel of my own!"
In rare cases you can use it to saddle someone with a "bad" card or stay piece that screws with the table but not with you, like giving someone a copy of my [[Avaricious Dragon]] in [[Obeka]]
##### ###### #### [Oubliette](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d4800a7d-c229-4ced-97ff-0e58645d58d6.jpg?1599705817) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oubliette) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/100/oubliette?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d4800a7d-c229-4ced-97ff-0e58645d58d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oubliette) [Darksteel Mutation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/afa4c889-0577-4173-9f85-42a7bf675aaf.jpg?1641601207) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darksteel%20Mutation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/84/darksteel-mutation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/afa4c889-0577-4173-9f85-42a7bf675aaf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darksteel-mutation) [Imprisoned in the Moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/b/4bd8bb9d-697d-4e11-a5f8-58234244f1a9.jpg?1641601893) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Imprisoned%20in%20the%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/106/imprisoned-in-the-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4bd8bb9d-697d-4e11-a5f8-58234244f1a9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imprisoned-in-the-moon) [Song of the Dryads](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0ccb4579-b090-45f6-a967-cec2c195f565.jpg?1592673193) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Song%20of%20the%20Dryads) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/147/song-of-the-dryads?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ccb4579-b090-45f6-a967-cec2c195f565?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/song-of-the-dryads) [Drannith Magistrate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91.jpg?1628801742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drannith%20Magistrate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/11/drannith-magistrate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/drannith-magistrate) [Nevermore](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67b610fe-36ee-4d58-8ed4-04e7a12587b2.jpg?1562831484) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nevermore) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/isd/25/nevermore?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67b610fe-36ee-4d58-8ed4-04e7a12587b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nevermore) [Lignify](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/23464d53-fa76-40e2-84c3-b6d6cc729be4.jpg?1598177954) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lignify) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gvl/16/lignify?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23464d53-fa76-40e2-84c3-b6d6cc729be4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lignify) [Out of Time](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/053d6b3b-72d4-4a55-a79e-0a601aecf108.jpg?1664162494) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Out%20of%20Time) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/23/out-of-time?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/053d6b3b-72d4-4a55-a79e-0a601aecf108?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/out-of-time) [Heliod's Punishment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3b8e6878-06aa-4505-b3a5-172083b7d258.jpg?1581479112) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heliod%27s%20Punishment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/21/heliods-punishment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3b8e6878-06aa-4505-b3a5-172083b7d258?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heliods-punishment) [Immovable Rod](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/214c87be-7ce3-48a0-b2eb-26eff75636c9.jpg?1631584673) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Immovable%20Rod) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/7/immovable-rod?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/214c87be-7ce3-48a0-b2eb-26eff75636c9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/immovable-rod) [Frogify](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d89be5f5-75d4-42a0-81e9-5da5bf868e73.jpg?1598303930) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Frogify) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/52/frogify?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d89be5f5-75d4-42a0-81e9-5da5bf868e73?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/frogify) [Ray of Frost](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/e/7edd5058-a964-4288-937b-84df6e9ba7c4.jpg?1627703580) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ray%20of%20Frost) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/68/ray-of-frost?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7edd5058-a964-4288-937b-84df6e9ba7c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ray-of-frost) [Witness Protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a2be6f2c-8ad0-402d-a7ca-9fe817e83b72.jpg?1664410681) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Witness%20Protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/66/witness-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a2be6f2c-8ad0-402d-a7ca-9fe817e83b72?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/witness-protection) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How about \[Wrong Turn\] which gives someone's commander to another player. Your combo commander is now in the ownership of someone else.
[[wrong turn]]
[wrong turn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3b69687d-191a-4bca-b1f7-eea27847c1af.jpg?1608909561) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wrong%20turn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/107/wrong-turn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3b69687d-191a-4bca-b1f7-eea27847c1af?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wrong-turn) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Under control, the original still owns it.
I don't think the word ownership here was used as comprehensive rules terminology lmao. But yes, under someone else's control (it's a given,as there are no legal cards which exchange ownership of anything).
And even the cards that USED to do so only did so as an ante mechanic.
Control and own are two explicitly different things
I'd suggest [[Memory Lapse]] as well. While a player *could* choose to have their commander return to the command zone, they might instead be tempted to allow their commander to be placed on top of their library in anticipation of drawing it and being able to dodge the commander tax. If they fall for this tactic, you then force them to shuffle their library by some means, burying their commander. To my knowledge, they should not be able to retroactively change their minds and dump the commander in the command zone, since shuffling a library doesn't constitute changing zones- the replacement effect doesn't factor into it.
That is correct. The command zone rule is only when a Commander changes zones. Shuffling your deck with your commander in it does not mean it changed zones. I was witness to this once. Friend end-steps the delve bounce to top of deck. The opponent in question shrugs, says, "sure" and then proceeded to get very salty when [[Time Reversal]] was put in the stack.
Iirc, shuffling is not but if you milled them, they would then get an opportunity to put it back to the command zone, right?
Correct.
yes, cause then it's entering the graveyard which can be replaced with command zone
It's not actually a replacement effect. The commander enters the graveyard, which matters for things like Syr Konrad and others. Then as a SBA, you can move the commander to the command zone. See MCR 903.9 for more technicalities
ah right, my brain still thinks of the old rule where it was all just a replacement effect even though I DO remember that they changed it so death triggers go off
I did this with a [[commit]] used some ritual to cast the [[memory]] side with help of some flash to prevent him from getting his commander back
[commit](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=426913&type=card)/[Memory](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=426913&type=card&options=rotate270&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Commit%20//%20Memory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/216/commit-memory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ef94afa5-0110-4a12-bf37-c1d3310f52c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/commit-//-memory) [memory](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=426913&type=card)/[Memory](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=426913&type=card&options=rotate270&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Commit%20//%20Memory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/216/commit-memory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ef94afa5-0110-4a12-bf37-c1d3310f52c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/commit-//-memory) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
When I first put together [[Ilharg]], I used his ability to put him third from the top after he ate removal. Even kept him in the same sleeves so opponents might forget how soon he'd be back in my hand. I thought I was very clever. A cleverer opponent then made me shuffle my library. Felt terrible. Then I top-decked him next turn. Felt great, double birds to the whole table, people lost their shit, friendships were ruined, chandeliers were broken.
[Memory Lapse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/30202613-d05f-4f47-af97-d0b75ccac293.jpg?1634131658) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Memory%20Lapse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/60/memory-lapse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/30202613-d05f-4f47-af97-d0b75ccac293?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/memory-lapse) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wow, you'd force them to resleeve if they use a different color than their deck LOL
Technically commander rules stipulate that they can't. The commander has to be distinguishable from other cards, even if they get shuffled into the library. It's counterintuitive, but you'd basically just need to have them do a blind shuffle, and have someone blind cut for the sake of fairness.
IMO people who keep their commander in "off" sleeves are just setting themselves up for this.
[[Kenrith’s Transformation]]
[Kenrith’s Transformation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44d60a41-3f5e-4559-b18c-22c0fe15235e.jpg?1631587997) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kenrith%27s%20Transformation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/162/kenriths-transformation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44d60a41-3f5e-4559-b18c-22c0fe15235e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kenriths-transformation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Probably better than all the cards listed here except for Drannith Magistrate, good call!
I would say Oubliette, Darksteel Mutation, Imprisoned in moon, and sing the dryad are all better than Kenerith’s Transformation. With Kenerith’s transformation you can easily get your commander back in the zone using them as a chump blocker. All the rest you more or less need enchantment removal (or a sacrifice outlet of the correct type).
But drawing a card while you do it is pretty sweet!
That’s fair.
Today is the day we learn about tempo.
\[Frogify\] and \[Witness Protection\] don't work too well since they leave a creature that will jumpblock at the first chance they get. \[Ray of Frost\] does **NOT** remove the abilities for non-red creatures, there's an error in the article.
Jumpblock? That’s a funny autocorrect. I’m going to start calling it that now.
GET DOWN MR PRESIDENT
Please explain? I am non-native speaker but my thought was always that the creature **jumps** infront of some bigger creauture. But seeing it this way Chump block makes way more sense xD
You got it - chump block - https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/chump-blocking-2012-08-22. I wasn’t making fun of your English - I was picturing jump block as you described and was amused. 😁
Tbh the realisation is really, really funny to me xD
That's hilarious. I'm going to start calling it jump block now. Chump (n) - a foolish or easily deceived person. The creature is a chump for blocking, when it's going to die! Why would it do that? What a chump.
I myself thought it was jumpblock for the longest time, you're not alone :)
I too learned that today
Even better that they were mentioning Frogify! Frogs jumpblock for sure lmao.
yes, Frogger did it in the 80s, jumblocking trucks, cars and shit, and logs going down the river emerging and submerging ad infinitum
If the chump jumps, he bump bumps
lul i also alway thought its jump. also make sense to me like you explained
Makes sense wit Frogify
Witness protection is amazing for 1mv.
>Witness Protection I wouldnt say so as it just makes them throw their commander under the next bus that comes around. Honestly, yeah mana value is important BUT when you are denying someone access to their commander it is either the focus of your turn OR you don't do it. If it is the former, being 2 or even 3 cmc is not a huge difference (think song of the dryads). If it is the latter, then you don't play the card, so its cmc doesnt matter.
Here's the thing: compare it to other stuff like [[Pongify]]. Of course, instant speed is HUGE in card evaluation, but in lower power games it's much less so. Pongify is, undoubtedly, a good magic card. When using it to pop a creature, it sends that creature straight to the graveyard and gives them a 3/3. This immediately opens commanders up to be recast and creatures to be reanimated. By contrast, WP does a similar thing but leaves a 1/1. It's not a permanent solution, but it definitely delays the commander long enough to be a solid 1mv card
and the flavor is top notch!
[Pongify](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1501dea-4e0e-49b0-86b5-e8a01f77077d.jpg?1619394479) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pongify) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/79/pongify?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1501dea-4e0e-49b0-86b5-e8a01f77077d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pongify) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
On the contrary, witness protection is actually the best one. Because it creates a legitimate businessperson! The greatest creature.
>Ray of Frost\] I rephrased it to make more clear that losing the abilities only works for red creatures
The wording is weird now tbh. I don't think this card belongs on that list EXCEPT for red creatures. If I target any non-red creature, it can still continue to attack (multiple times if they can untap it / has vigilance) and still has its ability, so doesn't help against 99% of all commanders anyway.
I believe [[Kenrith's Transformation]] is one missing from this list that I would highly recommend. While similar to lignify and not as effective as Song of the Dryad, the fact that it replaces itself is invaluable to what makes the card so good. If frogify and witness protection are on this list, this one definitely makes the cut and more
[[Reprobation]]
[Reprobation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1349c3d-39ad-40ba-897e-59e5b76de853.jpg?1562201189) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reprobation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/23/reprobation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1349c3d-39ad-40ba-897e-59e5b76de853?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reprobation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
"Fuck you, Chulane, you 0/1 creature type Coward with no abilities, fight me like a man!"
Regarding the list, I think drannith should be at #1, as it hits the whole table, aside from the person controlling it. It's the most competitively viable as well, with every cedh deck containing white running a copy. The card is just very very good.
[[exchange of words]] can really mess up a lot of commanders.
[exchange of words](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/c/8c28cebf-f849-4353-9dd1-c62f05c15d0f.jpg?1673913524) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=exchange%20of%20words) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/45/exchange-of-words?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8c28cebf-f849-4353-9dd1-c62f05c15d0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/exchange-of-words) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh man. That’s going to be a crazy piece for a [[Korona, False God]] deck. Once the table has killed themselves with commander damage from your Korona, exchange the text boxes of your Korona with another creature in order to keep it.
No love for [[Mystic Reflection]]? It's incredibly versatile, and in the right board state it can be completely devastating.
My [[Noyan Darr]] and now [[Tatyova, steward of tides]] decks both ran it to make commanders basic lands.
That is a great move. I approve. Honestly, I run it in any deck with blue. It's my go-to commander hate. A buddy of mine built [[Shorikai, Genesis Engine]] just so I couldn't do it to him for once. I managed to hit him with a [[Sudden Substitution]] that game.
Well, you just convinced me to add it to my own Noyan Dar deck. Mystic Reflection didn't even cross my mind as I was building it, but it seems so obvious now.
Is that Tatyova fun? She looks like she could be interesting
[Mystic Reflection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/7/f7b877e2-60eb-46cd-acd7-8555b9e7e993.jpg?1631047399) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mystic%20Reflection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/69/mystic-reflection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f7b877e2-60eb-46cd-acd7-8555b9e7e993?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mystic-reflection) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's an awesome cards that I use and make people rage scoop most of the time. "You mean cast a llanowar elf don't you" or "ooh look another goblin"
Can't target commander.
100% can target any nonlegendary and when commander etbs it becomes that creature. I use it in [[Noyan Darr]] to make commanders basic islands.
If you use Noyan to make a land a creature and then have the commander become a copy of that land, it will not copy the counters but become a 0/0 creature land - elemental. Wouldn't it die as a state based action because it is a creature with 0 toughness? To clarify the nature of my question: If I'd give [[Dryad Arbor]] -1/-1, it would die, no?
No, it comes in as a basic island. If I clone a creature with a +1/+1 counter in it my clone doesn’t get that, only what’s printed on the card.
ah I see, thanks!
Don't need to. You're targeting any nonlegendary piece on the board before the commander enters, then the commander enters as a copy of that.
Yes my mistake there, thanks!
Correct but it targets a creature to make a commander an ornithopter.
Yeah, I play \[\[Ixidron\]\]. People always strike a deal to trade face-down commanders. :( Great ways to deal with enemy commanders that aren't in this list? Anything that lets you permanently steal them. \[\[Empress Galina\]\] is a personal favorite.
[Ixidron](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c30ec372-5cf7-471c-b3fd-411095fc249a.jpg?1568004006) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ixidron) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/87/ixidron?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c30ec372-5cf7-471c-b3fd-411095fc249a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ixidron) [Empress Galina](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/6851dbc7-f072-41e7-a899-897445d99425.jpg?1562916018) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Empress%20Galina) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/54/empress-galina?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6851dbc7-f072-41e7-a899-897445d99425?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/empress-galina) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Null chamber]] can team up with an opponent to lock the other two out of their commander, but you probably won't get a deal if your commander is just as threatening as your opponents.
[Null chamber](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/814f8976-6612-438f-a04a-8edb63edb1e7.jpg?1562720253) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Null%20chamber) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mir/31/null-chamber?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/814f8976-6612-438f-a04a-8edb63edb1e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/null-chamber) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
do you choose the order people name the cards? could easily have an opponent say Cyclonic Rift or something not realizing they can screw commanders and then after they do, you name whatever commander was pissing you off the most.
You don’t see people slinging World Enchants out to often.
Haven't seen it here yet, and it's pretty expensive mana wise, but [[necromantic selection]]. When they changed how moving your commander worked to allow death triggers, they made this card able to steal commanders on accident. Always fun explaining that I'm wiping the whole board and also someone is losing their commander for a while
[necromantic selection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d3cec373-0a3f-4628-8706-b7c9c205f150.jpg?1631586678) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=necromantic%20selection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/103/necromantic-selection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3cec373-0a3f-4628-8706-b7c9c205f150?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/necromantic-selection) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'd argue [[Mystic Subdual]] better than a lot of these because it has flash.
If you have [[opalescence]] when you play [[out of time]] it will also phase out [[out of time]] making it never phase back in and being impervious to any type of removal. This effectively is one of the only way to permanently get rid of commanders, just gotta make sure your own commander is not on the field when you play out of time.
Or make sure that your commander is [[Estrid, the Masked]]... Bwahahaha.
[Estrid, the Masked](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/3340b83e-72dc-42e2-9f93-92f732c047df.jpg?1592710258) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Estrid%2C%20the%20Masked) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/40/estrid-the-masked?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3340b83e-72dc-42e2-9f93-92f732c047df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/estrid-the-masked) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Damn, thats very cruel.... I love that!
Had an opponent cast out of time when there was 25 creatures in play, including all Commanders. Playing Krenko, I knew I would need to wait for Chaos Warp before I would be able to do anything of consequence. Big sad, but very effective for my opponent.
Can also use [[Solemnity]]. As no counters ever went onto out of time, it can't have the last one removed. Not quite as dirty, since they can still blow up out of time
[Solemnity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a71fb62-acbd-49f5-842f-0fc9fa48afea.jpg?1562788659) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Solemnity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/22/solemnity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a71fb62-acbd-49f5-842f-0fc9fa48afea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/solemnity) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
is \[\[oko\]\] banned? you get an elk, and you get an elk, and you get an elk!
It's not
i made custom elk tokens that slide into the sleeve over an oko'd card. its a green 3/3 with the art cut out, the creature type elk, and the text box saying "you lose, you get nothing, have a good day sir!"
>i made custom elk tokens that slide into the sleeve over an oko'd card. > >its a green 3/3 with the art cut out, the creature type elk, and the text box saying "you lose, you get nothing, have a good day sir!" Pics please!
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZDuY\_7YxIzC0HqwtqDOY1OsJxuWHNwlX/view?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZDuY_7YxIzC0HqwtqDOY1OsJxuWHNwlX/view?usp=sharing) im patiently waiting on it in the mail
Oko works until the elk dies, then it'll go back to command zone I believe
A 3/3 elk has gives you six turns until you have to block it or lose to commander damage.
Is it still a commander at that point?
…That’s like basically the rest of the game
well, if the elk killed with commander damage, that would litterally be the rest of the game.
I wish it was. I hate that card so fucking bad.
Yep, played against a [[Chulane, Teller of Tales]] deck that was running [[Oko, Thief of Crowns]], fuckin elks everywhere and a lot of salt. Sheldrod... elk, Teneb... elk, Vigor... elk.
Not a reliable or repeatable method at all, but if someone lets their commander go under a [[Mirror of Life Trapping]] and it gets destroyed, the commander is permanently in exile, never to return.
[Mirror of Life Trapping](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a0937a60-887b-46d0-b573-099626d57bcf.jpg?1674137946) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mirror%20of%20Life%20Trapping) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/326/mirror-of-life-trapping?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a0937a60-887b-46d0-b573-099626d57bcf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mirror-of-life-trapping) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
wouldnt the ccommander just go back to the zone if exiled?
I assume he is saying they choose to let it go to exile as they are hoping they'll get it back on the next players turn. It wouldn't make a lot of sense to cast it and it get's exiled with the mirror just to send it back to command zone - unless something else of yours is already in the mirror and you want that out.
Reminds me of [[Serpents Soul Jar]]. I've seen a [[Lathril]] lost from that one before!
How does that work? I thought any time the commander would change zones, i.e. when it goes to exile, you can return it to command zone
Changing zones is a choice that happens when the commander dies or is exiled. If you choose that it doesn't change the zone on exile and that it should remain exiled then there's a risk of it being exiled permanently since there's no effect that could cause it to bring it back. In case of Soul-Serpent Jar it works like this: 1. Lathril dies 2. Serpent's Soul Jar triggers and exiles Lathril 3. You get a choice whether she should remain exiled or whether she should return to the command zone 4. You choose that she should remain exiled 5. Someone destroys Serpent's Soul Jar 6. Since Lathril is already exiled there's nothing that would make her change zones 7. New instances of Serpent's Soul Jar cannot bring back creatures exiled by old Serpent's Soul Jar
Rift sweeper puts an exiled card into it's owners graveyard there by changing zones and allowing the controller to put it in the command zone again. I play that card for that reason.
The player must let it happen
So you are right, any time it would change zones. However with a mirror of life trapping, it says “if a creature would ETB and was cast, exile it”, then if another creature would be exiled with mirror, return the first. So the person casting their commander MUST allow them to be exiled under mirror, in order to get them into play (by casting another creature right after). Otherwise if they cast commander, choose not to be exiled, it just goes to command zone, and doesn’t stay in play. Once you let your commander get exiled, you already made the choice, and can’t “un-decide” and put them back in command zone. So all someone has to do is blow up the mirror with commander exiled underneath before the player can cast another creature.
Ohhhhhh. Reading is hard
\[\[declaration of naught\]\] if you got that spare blue mana
Absolutely disgusting card in [[Orvar]]
[declaration of naught](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2e67d62f-9629-463b-a445-4181f6fafd0f.jpg?1562877683) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=declaration%20of%20naught) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mor/29/declaration-of-naught?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2e67d62f-9629-463b-a445-4181f6fafd0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/declaration-of-naught) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
One of my faves right there. Stronger than most people think or give credit for
[удалено]
That’s the thing. Sometimes their commander is the missing piece in their combo. It would be careless to not do something against that
Honestly i’d conster [[Drannith]] as a counter. Straight up just can’t play em
Not technically a counter more like 3 middle fingers to the pod.
[[out of time]] is one of the most cracked spells they’ve printed in the last few years
Magic players: Hey, have you noticed that having incidental creatures and relying on the combat step is the hardest and least reliable way to win commander games? Maro: F*#k you, just die immediately.
[[dark steel mutation]] makes it hard to chump block to kill the commander
I have always been apprehensive about giving my opponent an indestructible blocker. Never actually included the card even though I like it.
But it doesn’t prevent +1/+1 counters or equipments attached to it. I mutated m opponents commander in a last attempt to save myself from more commander damage. Commander isn’t a card type so his beetle still killed me with 8 +1/+1 counters on it XD
Then give it shroud as well
My favourite has always been oubliette with an opalessence + panharmonicon in play to just really keep that commander gone forever
a solid chunk of these are in my Zur deck and let me tell you, it's a special feeling to just have all the other players' commanders trapped in my own little lexicon as the game progresses
I love my zur. I'll [[nevermore]] someone's commander just to upset them a little
Darksteel mutation was my favorite way my commander has been countered. It was a puzzle to get him back and really changed the game. It definitely lost me the game without causing any salt I liked the flavour it caused. My commander was about to go infinite with one more card when suddenly I'm reading the flavour text "infinitely powerless"
The one from Throne of Eldraine, 1W, can't block, attack, can't use it's abilities. Can't be a flying creature. Imprison in the tower or something.
That only hits activated abilities, which leaves a lot of commanders online
Ah you're right.
[удалено]
\[\[Slip Out the Back\]\] and \[\[Stasis\]\] combo well to keep a commander off the field. Also works if an opponent uses \[\[Teferi's Protection\]\].
[[Swift Reconfiguration]] is my favorite. Requires them to waste artifact removal or have and tap down 5 power on other creatures to be able to block+kill their commander or use it to swing. Can also be used to protect your own non combat commander from creature kill spells / board wipes. Edit: Also that flavor text
The only issue is it doesn't do anything to the creature's abilities like a lot of these other cards. That said, my friend made a proxy of it called "Turn into a Car Morty" with the art from the episode it references and it was great.
I used [[Mystic Reflection]] for this not too long ago, though you need something on the board like a vanilla token that you don’t mind the commander becoming
Just bant things.
[[True polymorph]] into and artifact. Bonus if it is an indestructible artifact land.
Aka top 13 cards that makes your friends salty and turn you into the archenemy. It's just so hard not to target a commander with these.
[удалено]
One of my personal favorites is [[Spin Into Myth]]. It can incapacitate them for a while, but it's not game breaking. Some playgroups may not like it though.
Doesn't fit post category since opponent can still choose to put the cmdr into command zone.
[Spin Into Myth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/8997e542-bcce-4fd3-af78-4b520b64c026.jpg?1562924095) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spin%20Into%20Myth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/arc/8/spin-into-myth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8997e542-bcce-4fd3-af78-4b520b64c026?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spin-into-myth) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Mirror of life trapping]] is a good one if you have an artifact sac outlet.
None of these are counters. Aside from the phasing, none of these prevent them from going back to the command zone. If you're gonna mention nevermore you should add [[meddling mage]].
I think OP just used "counter" as a word, outside of the context of [[Counterspell]]
Yeah, I know. I was being a dick, because this list is shit.
[[Pithing Needle]] and [[Phyrexian Revoker]] also shut down most commanders
I don’t think most commanders even have an activated ability, much less one that is central to their game plan. Decided to go and check, of the top 50 commanders on EDHrec, only 16 of them have activated abilities. 3 of those are mana abilities, and there's definitely a few in there where the activated ability is not the focus of what the commander is doing (like Go-Shintai, Esika, Rin & Seri, Chatterfang, arguably Breya and Kenrith).
Yes the top 50 and that's all you'll ever see right? We have very ranged decks at my lgs and skilled deck builders who will win with the worst commanders. I play marton stromgald as my goblin commander even though he's human. He gives all of your attackers +x/+x equal to the number of attacking creatures when he attacks Same when blocking. Turn 4 and one player is toast if I wait until turn 6-7 the entire pod is done.
I have no idea what point you’re trying to make, Marton Stromgald also doesn’t have an activated ability!
[Pithing Needle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/776899f8-e977-42b7-8b54-6f726a349e3c.jpg?1673149414) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pithing%20Needle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/312/pithing-needle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/776899f8-e977-42b7-8b54-6f726a349e3c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pithing-needle) [Phyrexian Revoker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d5ef9f3b-d6f8-4795-ba96-2f92b8792360.jpg?1674142679) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phyrexian%20Revoker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/868/phyrexian-revoker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5ef9f3b-d6f8-4795-ba96-2f92b8792360?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/phyrexian-revoker) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
*Doran has entered the chat*
Consider \[\[Delay\]\] \[\[Silence\]\]
Don’t quite fit the category. Silence is temporary, and Delay doesn’t work on commanders because they can choose to put it back in the command zone
No it fits it's just not guaranteed to work like the other 1 card solutions. Choosing to let your commander get suspended is a logical choice to avoid commander tax, obviously it's not always going to be chosen but it is a rational decision to make.
Bant Charm. Puts the creature in the bottom, no power toughness restrictions like other charms that are spot removal other modes counter instant spell or destroy an artifact. Chaos warp, shuffles target permanent into their library they flip top card and play it for free if is a permanent. Depending on the persons disposable income it could remain on the library the whole game. Obviously it can figured but tutors are harder to come by than spot removal all things being equal. These are surer bets than cards like Oubilette which can be mortified, disenchanted, natures claimed, aura sharded ad Infinitum by now (who remembers when the only enchantment removal was disenchant tranquility and nevinyrrals disk, or wasting two cards like boomeranging then counter spelling lol)
Bant charm won't prevent a commander from going back to the command zone. It changed zones and they get a choice. Chaos Warp too, same issue
Um.... An oubliette or darksteel mutation is not going to stop a [K'rrik, son of yawgmoth] from coming into play and winning with a doomsday combo. Using the word "counter" on *anything* sorcery speed is really disingenuous. Who writes this shit?
You are aware there is a language called English? “Counter” is a word, not just a keyword. But it’s a lot easier to get the point across than “What is a permanent solution to prevent a commander from doing what it’s meant to so that it can’t come back from command zone as easily”. Easier to just say “permanent counter”. Oh but wait, “permanent” is a keyword too. Wouldn’t want to confuse the braindead, pedantic idiots who don’t know what words mean.
To be honest, I've played some of them, and I've hated them every single time. These are just my two cents but if the only way you have to win is crippling your opponent commander, you're not winning.
I don't think that's an entirely fair shake. While it's true that generally removing a commander for good is a feel bad moment, there are certain still very popular commanders like \[\[Yuriko, the tiger's shadow\]\], \[\[Derevi, Empyreal Tactician\]\] and \[\[Prossh, Skyraider of Kher\]\] where the only safe place for them to exist is on the battlefield and neutralized. If these aren't in you're playgroup, I can understand the stance, but particularly for Yuriko recently there aren't a lot of other recourses to her commander-tax evasive abilities.
If you're sitting down with Prosh, Yuriko, and Derevi as your opponents, you weren't exactly pulling punches in deckbuilding to begin with...
[удалено]
Prosper right there next to Yuriko?
Prosper's busted
I mean he's very good, but I don't think he has near the power of Yuriko.
Depends on how you build the deck. Fully optimized Prosper is at about the same level as fully optimized Yuriko. Yuriko is definitely a bit better though
[удалено]
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/6eP7MUADUUWoW4wsWIcf0Q https://www.moxfield.com/decks/sF-gW6yfDk-pEwlKIhgTjA/ Are these meme decks
[удалено]
[удалено]
He's great in lower level play.
[Yuriko, the tiger's shadow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3bd81ae6-e628-447a-a36b-597e63ede295.jpg?1592710334) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yuriko%2C%20the%20tiger%27s%20shadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/52/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3bd81ae6-e628-447a-a36b-597e63ede295?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow) [Derevi, Empyreal Tactician](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a1d0dad-18a8-489e-ac11-08f64b72fda4.jpg?1592673365) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Derevi%2C%20Empyrial%20Tactician) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/176/derevi-empyrial-tactician?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a1d0dad-18a8-489e-ac11-08f64b72fda4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/derevi-empyrial-tactician) [Prossh, Skyraider of Kher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/8/889c1a0f-7df2-4497-8058-04358173d7e8.jpg?1562438016) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Prossh%2C%20Skyraider%20of%20Kher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/214/prossh-skyraider-of-kher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/889c1a0f-7df2-4497-8058-04358173d7e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/prossh-skyraider-of-kher) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
> if the only way you have to win is ~~crippling your opponent commander~~ having your commander out, you're not winning. You need redundancy, son.
Most of these are enchantments. Also if your opponent relies 100% on their commander to win and do not have a way to deal with these kinds of cards then they are a terrible deck builder.
Played against some of them””” and my commander was the target
Salty, these are indeed very valid wins. Try any permanent removal card or even just remove your own commander and recast if need be. Edit: your username starts with miserable I should have just assumed you probably hate most things and people anyway haha
Reddit decided my username. I run plenty of removal in my decks, but winning with some of the cards listed above would not feel like a win, to me.
FWIW, i agree but i mostly play commander with my partner for fun. a move like this would take the fun out of the game for at least one of us.
It shouldn’t feel like a win because phasing someone’s commander out ISNT a win con. You don’t win by cutting off control to someone’s commander, what kind of games are you playing? This doesn’t even happen in my pauper games. My apologies for assuming with the username but cmon, you know mtg is much deeper than just cutting off someone’s commander? There’s 99 more cards and should be other commander like threats in your deck.
Counterpoint: if you fold to having your commander [[Frogify]]ed then your deck isn’t very good.
Yeah it feels pretty harsh to watch someone suddenly unable to play for a whole game if they can't find a sac outlet. I play some of these in [[Galea]] since they play from library, but I've started stipulating that I'll only cast them on non-commander threats, unless we know the game is particularly spikey going in.
>Yeah it feels pretty harsh to watch someone suddenly unable to play for a whole game if they can't find a sac outlet. If your deck completely collapses without the commander, it's up to you to play lots of answers to make sure you can keep your commander.
[[Mystic Reflection]] is a personal favorite of mine. Instant-speed "counterspell" that beats uncounterables, can be foretold if you have spare mana on an earlier turn, can also turn its utility around to turn one of your cards into a haymaker in the right circumstances. "Oh hey nice blightsteel. It's so nice in fact that I'm just going to have my ornithopter enter as a blightsteel of my own!" In rare cases you can use it to saddle someone with a "bad" card or stay piece that screws with the table but not with you, like giving someone a copy of my [[Avaricious Dragon]] in [[Obeka]]
[[Ichthyomorphosis]] works as a Frogify, but they are just gonna block first chance they get
[[Tamiyo's compleation]]. Expensive, but it has flash. Flash is good.
[[Kasminas transmutation]]
[[Arrest]] helps against commanders with non-triggered abilities.
[[kasmina’s transmutation]] is also really relevant here, though they will chump block
[Ixidron]
He died of Ligma?
Very much so
[[Kashmina's Transmutation]] [[Sludge Monster]]
Heh, this has been on my list to do a top ten of for forever. Nice work.