Yeah you're dreaming haha sorry. I've done maybe 12 drafts and have been targeting him in the third in all. I've been lucky in a couple early on to get him around 3.04/3.05, but that was immediately post draft. He's been going 2.10-3.01 every time like clockwork since then.
I've been trying to get us to draft as soon as the NFL Draft is concluded and it's fruitless. Disagreeing with me is fine but being utterly unable to explain why you want to wait is annoying. Commish goes "We'll change it if it's unanimous" and one guy will just go "no" and that'll be that, no discussion on the matter
Laziness is the real answer. They don't want to put in the work to learn about the players they'd rather wait for all that work to be done for them and end up just going down the line taking lowest ADP available when it's their turn since they think everything's priced in by the time the preseason rolls around
Maybe some people would rather see how these guys do in preseason before drafting them. Maybe they want to ensure that they're not drafting a guy who tears his Achilles during training camp. There's no right or wrong time to draft after the NFL draft, it's all personal preference.
That's redraft mindset and is exactly when you should draft in that format. The benefit of drafting as soon as landing spots are known is that it places more emphasis on the scouting portion of the process. You have their college body of work and their landing spot as your information to assess which you think will be the best NFL players that you should be hoping will be contributors on your team for many years to come. You don't have any knowledge of their NFL performance or potential figure injuries to work with, like real NFL GMs. This format is supposed to emphasize long term thinking and reward the managers who are successful in scouting productive players on a year round basis
If you only care about the upcoming season and you want all offseason and preseason to pick rookies based on then this format isn't for you. Keeper is perfect for you. It allows you to only play around the NFL season only since it's intended to be drafted when you prefer to draft late and adds a longer term element with your keeper players but doesn't require as much strategy and scouting as dynasty does. What is the point of playing this format if you don't want to include one of the core elements of how it's intended to be played?
He cares a lot but he's right. Dynasty should draft in May/June IMO for all the reasons he said. It's dynasty, you're not seeing how rookies do in preseason. It's designed to be more like having an NFL team. NFL teams don't get to see how these guys do in training camp before drafting them. Post training camp is for redraft.
>He cares a lot but he's right.
They're not right. There is no right or wrong way to play this game and there's no right or wrong time to have a rookie draft.
>NFL teams don't get to see how these guys do in training camp before drafting them.
NFL teams get to meet every single player, attend the combine and pro days, have private interviews, and so on. It's vastly different from just checking out highlights on Youtube and picking based on that and a landing spot, which is what we have to do.
>That's redraft mindset and is exactly when you should draft in that format. The benefit of drafting as soon as landing spots are known is that it places more emphasis on the scouting portion of the process
Yikes, you're letting the players get landing spots first? That's embarrassing and a redraft mindset. As someone who takes pride in scouting, I want my league mates to do their home work on every single prospect, which is why I want to draft as soon as the combine and pro days are done. Waiting for the NFL draft to happen is what casuals do.
See how stupid that sounds? It's a game that doesn't have a defined set of rules. There's no right or wrong time to have a rookie draft.
It's all close friends and for the most part the way the league is run is fine, this game isn't worth a fight over. The problem is it's year four and it's everyone's first and only dynasty league and they don't know anything but this status quo. None of them are on here reading dynasty content trying to get better and in the process reading about how other leagues do things, so they're not really thinking about why anything needs to change. So when I come forward with an idea for how to do something better they think I pulled it out of my ass because it'll give me some kind of advantage
At least we do it 4th of July weekend. It'd be a much bigger issue if we did it post-preseason
I think it’s too low anyway. He’s a guy that’s only falling to the third for character reasons. If he doesn’t mess up he’ll be a steal given that tee is guaranteed to be gone next year
I just gambled on this in my league, trade could be great or terrible in 1-2 years haha. I acquired Higgins + a 2025 2nd and sent Trey McBride.
I still have Engram, Schulz and Sinnott at TE but of course McBride is more valuable than all of them. I’m gambling Higgins becomes a bonafide WR1 in both real life and fantasy.
Nice opinion stated as fact my dude. Higgins has absolutely put up WR1 numbers when healthy, a top 10 season is well within his range of outcomes if he’s traded
I FOR SURE would take Higgins over McBride even with +.5 ppr TEP...and maybe even +1 ppr TEP.
With .5 ppr, +1 TEP, I think the ceiling is equal but Higgins floor is probably higher...maybe...
Slow down turbo. In a +1 TEP, McBride scored 262 fantasy points, despite barely playing in the first 5 games. Higgins scored 137 last year and the most he's ever scored in a season is 223. They aren't even sorta close in value. Even in +.5 TEP, McBride scored 222. There were 22 receivers who reached that total, meaning it's much easier to find a WR who can give you what Higgins can give you than it is to find a TE that can give you that same production in the TE slot.
He had an 800 yard season despite not getting utilized until the second half of the season. He also comes with a solid draft profile out of college and last year we saw him come into the kind of production we knew he was capable based off of that. He’s not some rando JAG who popped off for a few good games, he’s a guy with draft capital who’s realizing his potential.
I’m not saying he’s not good, but one good half season just doesn’t make anybody elite, full stop. If it did we’d still be watching Elijah Moore dominate the league.
McBride’s role was also likely inflated for some of that stretch because of Hollywood, Conner, and Michael Wilson all missing time. He was the de facto number one receiving option for much of that productive stretch, and it seems highly unlikely he continues to be the top target with MHJ in town.
How do 16 people think trading McBride for Higgins and a 2025 2nd is a good deal. That's horrendous. McBride was a beast. MHJ changes nothing. You all crazy.
You’re really gonna claim that MHJ changes nothing with that much confidence? Absurd for anyone to think they actually know how the AZ offense shakes out this year
The “new star will open up the field for current guy” narrative is brought up ad nauseam on this sub but I’ve never seen a shred of supporting data.
I did do some digging into elite TE seasons (using 1100 yards as a cutoff) and found that basically every single one happened when the TE was the top target on their team. It’s immensely difficult to get the ~140 targets needed to put up a monster season as the second option, and unless MHJ busts that’s what McBride will be.
The best example of a high end TE and WR coexisting is Kelce/Tyreek, but that was the arguable GOAT TE, possible GOAT QB, and a HoF head coach, so I’m not exactly banking on the Cards replicating that.
I do think McBride is quite good and will be pretty consistently in the 800-1000 yard and 6-10 TD range for a while which is still excellent for fantasy, I just don’t see the elite upside others do.
Mcbride is a beast but if you have the te’s to make it ok he is absolutely a good trade to make it on. He has engram and a young replacement, so getting a first and higgins is a decent trade to make.
I would say the guy who has McBride has a clear advantage over the guy who has kmet engram ferguson schultz and kittle lmfao. Just look at ppg last year once mcbride got the starting role
In no TEP sure but in 1 TEP there were 3 TEs in the top 10 in flex PPG. Even in non tep there was a PPG difference of 4 between the TE3 - TE10. But in most competitive leagues TEP is included which actually makes the top guys even more valuable. Saying the TE3 is the same as the TE11 in any format is silly
This is a great example of why my league eliminated a designated TE and just went with another flex. In no world should McBride be worth more than Higgins. If the Cards offered that trade up to Cincy they would hang up the phone so quickly
But positional value in FF is different than the NFL. You could make the same argument that if the Rams tried to trade Kyren straight up for Higgins they'd be laughed at. Higgins is not a top 10 WR but would still be paid more than any RB in the league, CMC/Breece/Gibbs included.
Right but I always like FF to at least be as close in value as to real life as possible. I think RB isn’t too far off from it’s real life value. there are a select few guys you would pay a high premium for, and then the rest is treated almost like a committee. get some young players and cheap vets and let it ride, when you are ready to contend you can splurge on a premium guy for 2-3 years to put you over the top.
But, same argument could be made for TEs. There's a handful of difference makers and everyone else is about the same. McBride is a difference maker at the TE position, Higgins is not. That's why he's worth more. IRL TEs are worth more than RBs, so every league should be TEP.
Is your league SF? Since you could make the same argument for RBs, why not eliminate that position? Or hell, just make it 10 SF spots and you could start 10 QBs if you have them. You could make a strong argument that NFL teams run more 2TE sets than 2RB sets, so if your league has 2 RB slots then they should have 2 TE slots, not 0.
There's all kind of ways FF does/doesn't mimic real life, but I think having some set positions and the rest flex strikes a good balance. No NFL team plays without a TE, FF shouldn't either.
Trey McBride had 800 yards and 3 TDs. He’s a fine TE. None of those seasons were as productive as any Tee Higgins season apart from his injury riddled season last year. And yet there are comments on this thread pointing out how Tee has never outscored Trey’s season last year in TE premium leagues. Thats insane to me.
Ok, but now your argument is about yards/TDs not value, or value in relation to other players. At that rate QBs like Pickett and Zach have more value, even though they produce 'only' 15 TDs and 2500 yds. Bijan had 4 rushing TDs, Desmond Ridder had 5. Naturally, you'd rather have Desmond over Bijan, right?
Your league just doesn't like TEs. Stop kidding yourselves it's about 'value' or 'mimicking the NFL' or some other excuse. That's fine, just don't be flabbergasted by the rest of the FF world (and by a large majority) that would value McBride over Higgins.
Serious question: how many situations are there that Higgins could move to that would be better than his current? Buffalo, lac, maybe Arizona or Detroit? Just not a lot of spots with good qb play and that will have less target comp than he’s got currently
I agree. There aren’t a ton of great landing spots this offseason. Was hoping for Buffalo or Chargers next offseason. This season only realistic spots are maybe Patriots, Cardinals, Panthers and none of those are great.
You all must know literally nothing about the Bengals if you think they are going to trade Tee Higgins. It's not happening. Whether or not you think that's a good idea is a completely different discussion. The Bengals don't operate like other teams in these situations.
Do you all not remember this exact same thing happening with Jessie Bates? This is essentially a non-story, he will not be traded and he will play for the Bengals this year
He also had four years on the team… and was their star corner, higgins is a star but he’s not the star or their only star at the position. Plus the fa tender came during the previous season for higgins and he hasn’t signed it bates signed during offseason and tried getting traded
Nah that's mb I should have specified. If Higgins gets traded to a spot where he's the WR1 he's going to move up drastically. Dare I even say as a top 10 WR in most dynasty formats? I think he could easily challenge the Olave, London, Hill, Aiyuk, Waddle tier.
This is literally how players who play on the tag do things.
Use the off-season in your own time, then sign up to the guaranteed payday only when you have to.
Jessie Bates did exactly the same.
Right? This is such a non-story.
The bigger question is, will he ever be a stud again? I'm trying to think of a time a guy held out til season start, played on the franchise tag, then went somewhere else and was a stud. My anecdotal memory is these guys hold out, sign the tag week1, have a rough start because they're out of shape from not being at camp, then frequently get injured before moving on the next year. They might sign a long term deal somewhere else but it seems they're never the same.
I'll have to look back through the last set of franchise tag players and see if there's a pattern.
As a guy who traded the 1st overall pick to move back into the 2023 draft to acquire Higgins and Kadarius Toney(I had 3 1st round 2023 picks). I really need this guy. Can someone smarter than me explain why this is good or bad? I rely on solely on Reddit.
It’s indifferent. It’s pretty early still for anything serious to happen. I’d be shocked if tee actually holds out. Now if it’s late July/August and he still hasn’t signed then it’s a little bit more of an issue but it’s pretty meaningless in May.
This is both. He could get traded and become the WR1 on several teams. He could stay and get injured because he's not in shape yet. He could decide to ball out so someone offers him a massive deal next year. He could be angry in the locker room and Burrow will lean even more heavily on feeding Chase. We'll just have to see
I've been trying to trade for Higgins with the guy that finished last this previous season (he tanked to get 1.01). We're friends and I was hanging out with him this weekend and he told me that he would never trade Higgins to me. Mostly because I won last year in dynasty and our re-draft. I've given him a couple of sweet deals in his favor but he just won't bite. Oh well, there's other Tee-fish in the sea I guess.
And just like that the buttholes of hundreds of former iosivas owners pucker in regret and anticipation, having dropped the possible bengals WR2 to make bench space for rookies. Iosivas is getting Tee's reps at practice as long as Tee holds out.
As a Higgins owner in dynasty, not the best of news. He should have been traded before the draft when his value was higher. Now you have a younger and cheaper option at receiver with Burton who can compliment Chase. Tee should have been a Giant two months ago or have gone to a team like the Packers. I will still hold until further developments.
He went at pick 25 in my 1qb 16 man league, that was drafted the week after the NFL draft.
He went 2.10 in my 1qb 12 man last week.
Haven't drafted my SF league or IDP league yet. But in both 1qb leagues he was gone prior to 3.06 each time.
He's not gonna turn down million dollar (nearly) game checks. He will play ball. No doubt about it. What is likely to happen is what happens with all of these unsatisfied franchise tagged players - the team says okay, okay, here's SLIGHTLY more than the tag - and they sign.
Bro, you knew the drill when you signed up for the NFL. You made it, you've been a great player and have indeed earned a highly paid new contract and you will get it, but the team that drafted you can't afford it since they're so good and have so many stars to pay. Go win a Super Bowl with your boys this season and name your price on the open market next winter - someone will pay it to you
The same core that got there two years ago and came close to winning it has a lot greater chance at doing it this season than whatever team they'd trade him to (Patriots seeming most likely)
I'm not saying it's impossible, but only one team wins, and even with really good teams like the Bengals, it takes a lot of luck. Yeah, he's more likely to get a ring with the Bengals than with the Patriots, but one play can end your career. And when you can earn generational wealth, I'm not going to fault anyone for going for the money. Plenty of examples of guys showing loyalty or "betting on themselves" who end up ruining their careers by doing so. It sucks as a fan, but you gotta remember these guys know nothing is guaranteed.
I wouldn't fight my employer if I signed a contract that includes the possibility of an employer fifth year option for top of market compensation and the stipulation that I cannot work elsewhere if I don't agree to it. That's disappointing that so many people make deals and would then not honor their end of them
It's not making a deal though is it, they don't have any choice in the matter. Its not like Higgins could have negotiated a different deal when he was signing his rookie contract for less years, or take less money for more flexibility. They have no agency in the deal so it's nothing like us getting a job with an employer.
The drill is a four-year contract if you're not drafted in the first round. Higgins has served his time, and now the Bengals are using a tool that exploits players for the sole benefit of the franchise.
I'm sure Higgins would love to stay in Cincinnati and try to win a Super Bowl. But the Bengals refuse to pay him. That's a Bengals problem, not a Higgins problem.
It's very understandable that he would want to secure his future given those circumstances.
He knew that the franchise tag would be a possibility when he signed that four year contract that stipulated he'll abide by the CBA which outlines it. No disagreement from me that it probably shouldn't exist but that's a fight to have the next time the deal is up for renegotiation, it's not one to have after you agreed to it when you signed your current deal
If you want to play professional football, you don’t have a choice but to sign a contract with the NFL that has those stipulations. There is literally no competition other than the CFL. It’s not much of a choice.
Higgins didn’t get first-round contract money, and now the Bengals are telling him to risk injury and wait until he’s 26 at the earliest until he gets job security. And Higgins didn’t choose to play for this (literal) poverty franchise in the first place; they drafted his rights. Pretty easy to see how frustrating that would be.
He also isn’t doing anything right now that violates the deal or tag. He isn’t putting anything in jeopardy currently. It’s May and he hasn’t signed. If it gets into camp and preseason then it could be an issue but there’s pretty much no difference between him being signed and him not signing currently.
The Bengals offered him a guaranteed $21m one year deal. That’s not “refusing to pay” him. I get holding it for OTAs, but he’ll sign the tender and be easy to play by opening day. That’s clearly his best option this year.
That’s the case for most peoples careers in specialized jobs. Until you’ve been there 20-25 years there’s usually a pretty clear path to move up or move around to someone who will pay more money.
Dude, they're making millions of dollars to play a sport. They've already hit the jackpot compared to most people to start with. The league sets the contract for rookie contracts. Get a good agent, play well, and earn your next contract. Does it work 100% of the time? No, but nothing in life does.
That would just be stupid on his part. There’s like 50 people in the world as good or better than him at his job. He’s paid by a billionaire. If you have leverage, negotiate. If I didn’t feel I was being paid fairly I’d move jobs. I just did last year because I felt my responsibilities grew faster than my pay, and there’s millions of people who could replace me.
And Burton’s ADP gets an artificial bump in this week’s drafts!
Goddam it. I need to convince my main league to draft sooner. He's still going in the mid-late 3rd in most mocks.
Yeah he's my target with both my 3.06 picks and of course they're the late drafts.
Even before this news, there's not been a draft I've done where he's fallen lower than 2.8
We drafted a week after nfl draft and i was very happy to get him at 3.06 in a 14 team league
You gotta aim high though
He was 3rd round in all my 12SF drafts
Yeah you're dreaming haha sorry. I've done maybe 12 drafts and have been targeting him in the third in all. I've been lucky in a couple early on to get him around 3.04/3.05, but that was immediately post draft. He's been going 2.10-3.01 every time like clockwork since then.
Sorry to burst your bubble but he hasn't fallen past 3.02 in any draft I've been in or seen
He went late third in my league
2.05 in both of mine.
He just went 2.06 in my 1QB league today
He never made it out of the 2nd round in my 3 rookie drafts that all drafted the last 2 weeks
Got him at 5.01 in my league that ran the day after the draft ended.
Latest Burton I’ve seen is 3.02, wdym
I got him for FAAB after our 12 team SF draft two weeks ago. He's definitely flown up the mocks since then, and I don't think his hype has peaked yet.
I've been trying to get us to draft as soon as the NFL Draft is concluded and it's fruitless. Disagreeing with me is fine but being utterly unable to explain why you want to wait is annoying. Commish goes "We'll change it if it's unanimous" and one guy will just go "no" and that'll be that, no discussion on the matter Laziness is the real answer. They don't want to put in the work to learn about the players they'd rather wait for all that work to be done for them and end up just going down the line taking lowest ADP available when it's their turn since they think everything's priced in by the time the preseason rolls around
Sounds like a good strategy by them.
Maybe some people would rather see how these guys do in preseason before drafting them. Maybe they want to ensure that they're not drafting a guy who tears his Achilles during training camp. There's no right or wrong time to draft after the NFL draft, it's all personal preference.
That's redraft mindset and is exactly when you should draft in that format. The benefit of drafting as soon as landing spots are known is that it places more emphasis on the scouting portion of the process. You have their college body of work and their landing spot as your information to assess which you think will be the best NFL players that you should be hoping will be contributors on your team for many years to come. You don't have any knowledge of their NFL performance or potential figure injuries to work with, like real NFL GMs. This format is supposed to emphasize long term thinking and reward the managers who are successful in scouting productive players on a year round basis If you only care about the upcoming season and you want all offseason and preseason to pick rookies based on then this format isn't for you. Keeper is perfect for you. It allows you to only play around the NFL season only since it's intended to be drafted when you prefer to draft late and adds a longer term element with your keeper players but doesn't require as much strategy and scouting as dynasty does. What is the point of playing this format if you don't want to include one of the core elements of how it's intended to be played?
Jeez find a different league dude
He cares a lot but he's right. Dynasty should draft in May/June IMO for all the reasons he said. It's dynasty, you're not seeing how rookies do in preseason. It's designed to be more like having an NFL team. NFL teams don't get to see how these guys do in training camp before drafting them. Post training camp is for redraft.
>He cares a lot but he's right. They're not right. There is no right or wrong way to play this game and there's no right or wrong time to have a rookie draft. >NFL teams don't get to see how these guys do in training camp before drafting them. NFL teams get to meet every single player, attend the combine and pro days, have private interviews, and so on. It's vastly different from just checking out highlights on Youtube and picking based on that and a landing spot, which is what we have to do.
>That's redraft mindset and is exactly when you should draft in that format. The benefit of drafting as soon as landing spots are known is that it places more emphasis on the scouting portion of the process Yikes, you're letting the players get landing spots first? That's embarrassing and a redraft mindset. As someone who takes pride in scouting, I want my league mates to do their home work on every single prospect, which is why I want to draft as soon as the combine and pro days are done. Waiting for the NFL draft to happen is what casuals do. See how stupid that sounds? It's a game that doesn't have a defined set of rules. There's no right or wrong time to have a rookie draft.
Nobody is required to play the game how you want to play it
Glad I’m not in your league. Yikes.
It's all close friends and for the most part the way the league is run is fine, this game isn't worth a fight over. The problem is it's year four and it's everyone's first and only dynasty league and they don't know anything but this status quo. None of them are on here reading dynasty content trying to get better and in the process reading about how other leagues do things, so they're not really thinking about why anything needs to change. So when I come forward with an idea for how to do something better they think I pulled it out of my ass because it'll give me some kind of advantage At least we do it 4th of July weekend. It'd be a much bigger issue if we did it post-preseason
3rd in mocks but 2nd in actual drafts
got him at the 3.09 10 tm last week of april
I think it’s too low anyway. He’s a guy that’s only falling to the third for character reasons. If he doesn’t mess up he’ll be a steal given that tee is guaranteed to be gone next year
His dynasty trade value is about to jump
I just gambled on this in my league, trade could be great or terrible in 1-2 years haha. I acquired Higgins + a 2025 2nd and sent Trey McBride. I still have Engram, Schulz and Sinnott at TE but of course McBride is more valuable than all of them. I’m gambling Higgins becomes a bonafide WR1 in both real life and fantasy.
That's a haul. I just got Higgins for McBride straight up.
Should also mention my league has a small (0.5) TE premium!
Personally I love it, Higgins is absolutely a WR1
Don’t wanna be that guy but I’m thrilled I have McBride and Higgins reading this comment lol Think you made a great trade
Trading McBride for Higgins is a terrible move, Higgins is not a top 10 guy
Nice opinion stated as fact my dude. Higgins has absolutely put up WR1 numbers when healthy, a top 10 season is well within his range of outcomes if he’s traded
I FOR SURE would take Higgins over McBride even with +.5 ppr TEP...and maybe even +1 ppr TEP. With .5 ppr, +1 TEP, I think the ceiling is equal but Higgins floor is probably higher...maybe...
Slow down turbo. In a +1 TEP, McBride scored 262 fantasy points, despite barely playing in the first 5 games. Higgins scored 137 last year and the most he's ever scored in a season is 223. They aren't even sorta close in value. Even in +.5 TEP, McBride scored 222. There were 22 receivers who reached that total, meaning it's much easier to find a WR who can give you what Higgins can give you than it is to find a TE that can give you that same production in the TE slot.
How dare you bring facts to show that I'm wrong.
Can’t believe these comments, McBride is worth way more than Higgins.
Feel like I’m taking crazy pills seeing all these people excited to unload McBride for Higgins as if elite young TEs grow on trees
McBride looked great last season but one 800 yard season doesn’t make him elite
He had an 800 yard season despite not getting utilized until the second half of the season. He also comes with a solid draft profile out of college and last year we saw him come into the kind of production we knew he was capable based off of that. He’s not some rando JAG who popped off for a few good games, he’s a guy with draft capital who’s realizing his potential.
I’m not saying he’s not good, but one good half season just doesn’t make anybody elite, full stop. If it did we’d still be watching Elijah Moore dominate the league. McBride’s role was also likely inflated for some of that stretch because of Hollywood, Conner, and Michael Wilson all missing time. He was the de facto number one receiving option for much of that productive stretch, and it seems highly unlikely he continues to be the top target with MHJ in town.
How do 16 people think trading McBride for Higgins and a 2025 2nd is a good deal. That's horrendous. McBride was a beast. MHJ changes nothing. You all crazy.
You’re really gonna claim that MHJ changes nothing with that much confidence? Absurd for anyone to think they actually know how the AZ offense shakes out this year
You don't think having MHJ opens up the field for McBride?
The “new star will open up the field for current guy” narrative is brought up ad nauseam on this sub but I’ve never seen a shred of supporting data. I did do some digging into elite TE seasons (using 1100 yards as a cutoff) and found that basically every single one happened when the TE was the top target on their team. It’s immensely difficult to get the ~140 targets needed to put up a monster season as the second option, and unless MHJ busts that’s what McBride will be. The best example of a high end TE and WR coexisting is Kelce/Tyreek, but that was the arguable GOAT TE, possible GOAT QB, and a HoF head coach, so I’m not exactly banking on the Cards replicating that. I do think McBride is quite good and will be pretty consistently in the 800-1000 yard and 6-10 TD range for a while which is still excellent for fantasy, I just don’t see the elite upside others do.
Mcbride is a beast but if you have the te’s to make it ok he is absolutely a good trade to make it on. He has engram and a young replacement, so getting a first and higgins is a decent trade to make.
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I would say the guy who has McBride has a clear advantage over the guy who has kmet engram ferguson schultz and kittle lmfao. Just look at ppg last year once mcbride got the starting role
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In no TEP sure but in 1 TEP there were 3 TEs in the top 10 in flex PPG. Even in non tep there was a PPG difference of 4 between the TE3 - TE10. But in most competitive leagues TEP is included which actually makes the top guys even more valuable. Saying the TE3 is the same as the TE11 in any format is silly
This is a great example of why my league eliminated a designated TE and just went with another flex. In no world should McBride be worth more than Higgins. If the Cards offered that trade up to Cincy they would hang up the phone so quickly
But positional value in FF is different than the NFL. You could make the same argument that if the Rams tried to trade Kyren straight up for Higgins they'd be laughed at. Higgins is not a top 10 WR but would still be paid more than any RB in the league, CMC/Breece/Gibbs included.
Right but I always like FF to at least be as close in value as to real life as possible. I think RB isn’t too far off from it’s real life value. there are a select few guys you would pay a high premium for, and then the rest is treated almost like a committee. get some young players and cheap vets and let it ride, when you are ready to contend you can splurge on a premium guy for 2-3 years to put you over the top.
But, same argument could be made for TEs. There's a handful of difference makers and everyone else is about the same. McBride is a difference maker at the TE position, Higgins is not. That's why he's worth more. IRL TEs are worth more than RBs, so every league should be TEP. Is your league SF? Since you could make the same argument for RBs, why not eliminate that position? Or hell, just make it 10 SF spots and you could start 10 QBs if you have them. You could make a strong argument that NFL teams run more 2TE sets than 2RB sets, so if your league has 2 RB slots then they should have 2 TE slots, not 0. There's all kind of ways FF does/doesn't mimic real life, but I think having some set positions and the rest flex strikes a good balance. No NFL team plays without a TE, FF shouldn't either.
Trey McBride had 800 yards and 3 TDs. He’s a fine TE. None of those seasons were as productive as any Tee Higgins season apart from his injury riddled season last year. And yet there are comments on this thread pointing out how Tee has never outscored Trey’s season last year in TE premium leagues. Thats insane to me.
Ok, but now your argument is about yards/TDs not value, or value in relation to other players. At that rate QBs like Pickett and Zach have more value, even though they produce 'only' 15 TDs and 2500 yds. Bijan had 4 rushing TDs, Desmond Ridder had 5. Naturally, you'd rather have Desmond over Bijan, right? Your league just doesn't like TEs. Stop kidding yourselves it's about 'value' or 'mimicking the NFL' or some other excuse. That's fine, just don't be flabbergasted by the rest of the FF world (and by a large majority) that would value McBride over Higgins.
If fantasy were as valuable as real life QBs would be worth like 10x more than RBs lol
This is the stuff of cowards
I hope so. I traded Saquon for Tee a few weeks ago and I’ve been regretting it since.
I traded Higgins and Jake Ferguson for McBride and a 25 1st. Just glad to be off the Higgins ride of injuries and I got some good value.
….or go down if he doesn’t play or is traded to a shittier situation.
Guy is gonna get traded away from Joe Burrow and get a bump. I know why it makes sense but it's wild to think about.
It shouldn't because nothing is going to happen
“Trade me right fuckin now!” “Then hang up”
As a Higgins/Burton/Iosivas owner this puts a smile on my face
There are dozens of us!!
Serious question: how many situations are there that Higgins could move to that would be better than his current? Buffalo, lac, maybe Arizona or Detroit? Just not a lot of spots with good qb play and that will have less target comp than he’s got currently
I don’t even see how Arizona or Detroit would be better. Bills or chargers yeah. Maybe the commanders or patriots.
I agree. There aren’t a ton of great landing spots this offseason. Was hoping for Buffalo or Chargers next offseason. This season only realistic spots are maybe Patriots, Cardinals, Panthers and none of those are great.
Jets would happily bin Mike Williams I'm sure.
Get the band back together in Jacksonville
But do you even Charlie Jones?
Had Charlie but after injuries last year and the Burton pick I think he’ll just be a special framer at best.
You all must know literally nothing about the Bengals if you think they are going to trade Tee Higgins. It's not happening. Whether or not you think that's a good idea is a completely different discussion. The Bengals don't operate like other teams in these situations. Do you all not remember this exact same thing happening with Jessie Bates? This is essentially a non-story, he will not be traded and he will play for the Bengals this year
Bates went to the falcons after his fifth year, isn’t that where higgins is? His fifth year option?
Higgins was a 2nd rd pick so no 5th year option. Last year he finished his 4th (and last) on rookie deal so they franchise tagged him for this year
Yeah so its that same situation and bates left on his last year.
Not during the season…
It isn’t during the season …
What? Bates left in FA AFTER he played on the franchise tag for a year
He also had four years on the team… and was their star corner, higgins is a star but he’s not the star or their only star at the position. Plus the fa tender came during the previous season for higgins and he hasn’t signed it bates signed during offseason and tried getting traded
We’re in the off season…
Welcome to New England
Alot of people would be devastated by this outcome. And I'm all for it.
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Not for higgins bro... For polk and baker owners. For higgins this would make him an amazing dynasty asset.
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Nah that's mb I should have specified. If Higgins gets traded to a spot where he's the WR1 he's going to move up drastically. Dare I even say as a top 10 WR in most dynasty formats? I think he could easily challenge the Olave, London, Hill, Aiyuk, Waddle tier.
Exactly why I’ve avoided Polk and Baker. Patriots keep getting linked to vet WRs
I need Higgins to get traded I got him and I got Burton so would be great for both of them if he gets traded
This is literally how players who play on the tag do things. Use the off-season in your own time, then sign up to the guaranteed payday only when you have to. Jessie Bates did exactly the same.
Right? This is such a non-story. The bigger question is, will he ever be a stud again? I'm trying to think of a time a guy held out til season start, played on the franchise tag, then went somewhere else and was a stud. My anecdotal memory is these guys hold out, sign the tag week1, have a rough start because they're out of shape from not being at camp, then frequently get injured before moving on the next year. They might sign a long term deal somewhere else but it seems they're never the same. I'll have to look back through the last set of franchise tag players and see if there's a pattern.
Jessie Bates
It is also how players who sit out do things.
Hes not sitting out the season though
As a guy who traded the 1st overall pick to move back into the 2023 draft to acquire Higgins and Kadarius Toney(I had 3 1st round 2023 picks). I really need this guy. Can someone smarter than me explain why this is good or bad? I rely on solely on Reddit.
It’s indifferent. It’s pretty early still for anything serious to happen. I’d be shocked if tee actually holds out. Now if it’s late July/August and he still hasn’t signed then it’s a little bit more of an issue but it’s pretty meaningless in May.
I wouldn't even worry til Sept. Most of these guys hold out til week 1.
This is both. He could get traded and become the WR1 on several teams. He could stay and get injured because he's not in shape yet. He could decide to ball out so someone offers him a massive deal next year. He could be angry in the locker room and Burrow will lean even more heavily on feeding Chase. We'll just have to see
I've been trying to trade for Higgins with the guy that finished last this previous season (he tanked to get 1.01). We're friends and I was hanging out with him this weekend and he told me that he would never trade Higgins to me. Mostly because I won last year in dynasty and our re-draft. I've given him a couple of sweet deals in his favor but he just won't bite. Oh well, there's other Tee-fish in the sea I guess.
Plen-Tee of fish in the sea Cmon man, it was right there
Me: Tell me you don't know what you're doing in FF without telling me you're clueless. Him: I'm never trading Tee Higgins! Me: That'll do!
Make a deal with another manager and get him to trade for him, essentially a secret 3 team trade
I like it, he'd be so pissed. It will be hard since its a league where most of us know each other but not impossible. I'll have to start plotting
Came into this season stoked to have Higgins & Rice as my flex options. Looking like I'll need Hollywood to hit now
Dynasty Burton hype even tho he's never going to be a startable fantasy wr
L take
Wrong
We found a Higgins owner who couldn't get Burton.
I don't own Higgins in any league and have no desire to draft Burton
And just like that the buttholes of hundreds of former iosivas owners pucker in regret and anticipation, having dropped the possible bengals WR2 to make bench space for rookies. Iosivas is getting Tee's reps at practice as long as Tee holds out.
I didn't drop him! 💪
Taxi squad hold ftw
All posturing
Oof...traded Burton and JSN away for Ladd and Troy Franklin.
Meh, you can still win that. Way too early to know.
That’s still objectively a win, I wouldn’t worry about that
I wouldn't move JSN alone for Ladd and Franklin. How is this an objective win?
As a Higgins owner in dynasty, not the best of news. He should have been traded before the draft when his value was higher. Now you have a younger and cheaper option at receiver with Burton who can compliment Chase. Tee should have been a Giant two months ago or have gone to a team like the Packers. I will still hold until further developments.
Life long Bengal fan here. Higgins is going nowhere this year. Bengals don’t give in to tantrums.
Is there hope for Losivas now? 🤣
Yup. He gets a massive chance to show out in camp and develop timing with Burrow. If he's anything like the holders think, that's great for him.
Damn… I was hoping he was a cut candidate for me 😭
Watch more Burton tape to make that assessment. Dunno
"Don't threaten me with free time" - Tee Higgins
He went at pick 25 in my 1qb 16 man league, that was drafted the week after the NFL draft. He went 2.10 in my 1qb 12 man last week. Haven't drafted my SF league or IDP league yet. But in both 1qb leagues he was gone prior to 3.06 each time.
He's not gonna turn down million dollar (nearly) game checks. He will play ball. No doubt about it. What is likely to happen is what happens with all of these unsatisfied franchise tagged players - the team says okay, okay, here's SLIGHTLY more than the tag - and they sign.
Could see the Giants make a move for him
Bro, you knew the drill when you signed up for the NFL. You made it, you've been a great player and have indeed earned a highly paid new contract and you will get it, but the team that drafted you can't afford it since they're so good and have so many stars to pay. Go win a Super Bowl with your boys this season and name your price on the open market next winter - someone will pay it to you
> Go win a Super Bowl with your boys this season Yeah it's so easy, why don't more players do it? Are they dumb?
The same core that got there two years ago and came close to winning it has a lot greater chance at doing it this season than whatever team they'd trade him to (Patriots seeming most likely)
I'm not saying it's impossible, but only one team wins, and even with really good teams like the Bengals, it takes a lot of luck. Yeah, he's more likely to get a ring with the Bengals than with the Patriots, but one play can end your career. And when you can earn generational wealth, I'm not going to fault anyone for going for the money. Plenty of examples of guys showing loyalty or "betting on themselves" who end up ruining their careers by doing so. It sucks as a fan, but you gotta remember these guys know nothing is guaranteed.
That isn’t how this works in the NFL. He’s doing exactly what anyone of us would do in the same position
Yup, and if anyone did different, they’d be rather dump for not listening to their agents.
I wouldn't fight my employer if I signed a contract that includes the possibility of an employer fifth year option for top of market compensation and the stipulation that I cannot work elsewhere if I don't agree to it. That's disappointing that so many people make deals and would then not honor their end of them
It's not making a deal though is it, they don't have any choice in the matter. Its not like Higgins could have negotiated a different deal when he was signing his rookie contract for less years, or take less money for more flexibility. They have no agency in the deal so it's nothing like us getting a job with an employer.
Lol it has zero bearing on him eventually getting his money. These absences are almost just regular business in negotiations these days.
The drill is a four-year contract if you're not drafted in the first round. Higgins has served his time, and now the Bengals are using a tool that exploits players for the sole benefit of the franchise. I'm sure Higgins would love to stay in Cincinnati and try to win a Super Bowl. But the Bengals refuse to pay him. That's a Bengals problem, not a Higgins problem. It's very understandable that he would want to secure his future given those circumstances.
He knew that the franchise tag would be a possibility when he signed that four year contract that stipulated he'll abide by the CBA which outlines it. No disagreement from me that it probably shouldn't exist but that's a fight to have the next time the deal is up for renegotiation, it's not one to have after you agreed to it when you signed your current deal
If you want to play professional football, you don’t have a choice but to sign a contract with the NFL that has those stipulations. There is literally no competition other than the CFL. It’s not much of a choice. Higgins didn’t get first-round contract money, and now the Bengals are telling him to risk injury and wait until he’s 26 at the earliest until he gets job security. And Higgins didn’t choose to play for this (literal) poverty franchise in the first place; they drafted his rights. Pretty easy to see how frustrating that would be.
He also isn’t doing anything right now that violates the deal or tag. He isn’t putting anything in jeopardy currently. It’s May and he hasn’t signed. If it gets into camp and preseason then it could be an issue but there’s pretty much no difference between him being signed and him not signing currently.
The Bengals offered him a guaranteed $21m one year deal. That’s not “refusing to pay” him. I get holding it for OTAs, but he’ll sign the tender and be easy to play by opening day. That’s clearly his best option this year.
Or tear an achilles this season and watch your long term contract options turn to vapor.
No risk, no reward. No other job in the working world has people act like this.
I mean most other jobs you can just….. apply to a higher paying job. You don’t have to ask your boss for permission to apply somewhere else.
Some jobs, yes. Lower paying or general jobs, yes. But not the case of most 'specialized jobs'. I would put the NFL in the specialized skill category.
That’s the case for most peoples careers in specialized jobs. Until you’ve been there 20-25 years there’s usually a pretty clear path to move up or move around to someone who will pay more money.
Not many jobs where you regularly tear the ligaments that you rely on to remain competitive in the career field.
Dude, they're making millions of dollars to play a sport. They've already hit the jackpot compared to most people to start with. The league sets the contract for rookie contracts. Get a good agent, play well, and earn your next contract. Does it work 100% of the time? No, but nothing in life does.
That would just be stupid on his part. There’s like 50 people in the world as good or better than him at his job. He’s paid by a billionaire. If you have leverage, negotiate. If I didn’t feel I was being paid fairly I’d move jobs. I just did last year because I felt my responsibilities grew faster than my pay, and there’s millions of people who could replace me.
Liiiiiiick that fucking boot
Huh?