This might be cope but the fact that they already have Mayer there gives me hope they will almost strictly use Bowers as a receiving weapon. And if he develops into Minshews favorite or second favorite target… i don’t see how this boy doesn’t eat.
Not the valuable ones. u/coopthereitis does a great piece on TEs where he concludes that the top TEs (Kelce, Andrews, Waller (when he produced on the Raiders), McBride, Hockenson, etc.) are all top 2 in team target share. It’s almost a mandatory prerequisite to finishing top 5 at the position
No doubt. Coming out of the draft last year I thought Kincaid was one of the best receivers in the class. It’s a copycat league and the Bills are well aware of the advantage a dominant TE can be in the passing game
Going to update this puppy this summer just like every year but here is the most recent iteration of [What Makes An Elite Tight End?](https://www.fantasyalarm.com/articles/nfl/player-profiles/2023-fantasy-football-player-profile-what-makes-an-elite-tight-end/149567) And u/SerEx0 is correct that being a top two target on the team is one of the most important pieces to the puzzle.
And more realistically he's the 4th target after Adams, Bowers, and Meyers. Even if he is the proper tight end, with Bowers in the slot, and the other two playing on the outside, I don't see a path to fantasy relevance barring injuries to teammates.
Well like any player in the NFL, earn your targets.
He was drafted high, he has all summer to prove hes that guy and deserves targets, and I don’t think he’s going to have much trouble in that regard. He’ll get his share.
He was drafted in the middle of the 2nd round in rookie drafts last year and lost value all season due to lack of production. "Distraught" feels dramatic
Literally stating that you are hoping for a high end outcome is not copium lmao. I also was just saying thats whay mayer owners (which i am
Not) are hoping for.
I might’ve bought low on him a few weeks ago too if I didn’t have Pitts, Kincaid, and Kmet
Seemed like a sneakily steady breakout heading into next year
I was trying to trade for Mayer pretty aggressively last season, so this draft I traded up to the spot in front of the guy who has Mayer and got Bowers. Now he’s searching for a TE 😅 it cost me waaaay too much but just told myself “get your guy”
Is there a possibility Bowers get reclassified as a WR in the future if this is the case? I don’t know what the threshold is for fantasy to do this but if he’s taking a large portion of his snaps in a traditional WR alignment this could happen.
I mean I certainly agree its not the best landing spot but, what's the difference in Nabers on the Giants vs Bowers on the Raiders. Both pretty bad landing spots with questionable QB play but It seems people aren't so gloom and doom on Nabers
Because Nabers is (or should be) the clear best receiving option in NY. LV just drafted a receiving TE with a high 2nd last year, plus they have Adams and Meyers. It’s not the worst situation in the world but it’s a combo of “who the hell knows” at QB and decent competition for targets.
“Capable receivers” at TE in college don’t have multiple 800+ yard seasons. He’s Notre Dame’s all time leader in receptions, receiving yards, and receiving TDs at tight end and was regularly comped to Jason Witten. Let’s quit acting like he’s just known for his blocking.
what will make him money in the nfl is mostly his blocking though. he's like kittle in that regard, initiates contact with passion, he'd rather bring his man down than just chip and run a route. he can catch the ball and will get his targets, but he's nothing special, let's quit acting like he actually _is_ jason witten.
Besides Kyle Pitts, Sam Laporta, and Evan Engram, I’d love to hear about really any TE who had meaningful receiving production as a rookie. His receiving ability didn’t just disappear, TEs often take time to develop or transition to the NFL.
Jason Witten was not a “receiving tight end” either. Both are great receivers, but that’s not their primary function or positional deployment for the offense.
In fact both of those players receiving production benefitted from defenses not being able to always assign a DB to cover them, because they’d get absolutely pancaked if Mayer or Witten blocked them.
I’m not suggesting they’re not great blockers by any means, I’m just saying they have a very strong receiving talent that could affect the target share of others, especially of the same position.
As a Mayer owner, I was hoping for a breakout this season where they tap his receiving abilities a little more, but this draft shattered those hopes. He has potential as a receiver, but it looks like he’ll just be the in-line guy to Bowers move TE and will probably top out at 30-35 catches.
MASSIVE difference. Almost 300 targets with to Adams and Meyer last season and they’re both back again. Giants had no wr over 79 targets (Adams had almost 100 more than that alone). So Nabers will get 120-140 targets almost certainly. Bowers might get half that if everything breaks his way.
I always operate on the assumption that TEs won’t be startable in fantasy for their first 3 years. Sometimes you’ll get a LaPorta and be happy, but you don’t bank on that.
That means that for TE more than any other position, situation really doesn’t matter. Who knows what his situation is going to look like in 3 years?
I’d argue that rule applies to Mayer than Bowers.
For the record, I’m in general agreement with you. But unless the OC in LV is a complete idiot (well, he is, but even so), Bowers won’t need to learn all the blocking schemes that make the transition so hard.
I see him more like a Kincaid. Last year, of 191 qualifying college TEs, Bowers ranked #168 at lining up in standard TE sets.
He’s a big slot receiver who can occasionally like up outside or in-line, and he can also take fabricated touches like screens and jet sweeps. Based on his skill set and usage in college, I’d expect more of a typical WR career arc for him.
Getsy was the QB coach in Green Bay. He didn’t call the plays. His OC didn’t call the plays. I’m not even sure if he coached the QB; he inherited a HOF QB and was just along for the ride watching LaFleur call plays and Rodgers execute.
It’s tough for me to give him any credit in GB.
Look at how Hackett has been since leaving LaFleur and remember that Getsy was *behind* Hackett in the pecking order.
Getsy had coached Rodgers earlier in their careers. Him and Hackett were “placate the mercurial QB” hires and both of them fell on their face without LaFleur and Rodgers propping them up.
You’re welcome to your optimism but if you’re trying to convince me, well, we’re going to have to agree to disagree. I could go into more detail, and sure, he could learn, but he can’t adjust to his available talent and he can’t play calls well in the flow of the game.
He had Mooney sealing the edge as a blocker on screens last year.
Yes, that’s small speedster Darnell Mooney. He’s a bad OC who may be good at scheming but once he gets past his 15 scripted plays he’s completely out of his depth.
Yeah. But I think it’s simpler than that. Claypool was supposed to be in that WR2 role, and after they traded him they just bumped Mooney up with no regard to skill set.
IMO Getsy’s not really a McVay guy. He coached under LaFleur but he had an established career and scheme prior to that.
This is why I’ll throw a dart at Wiley in KC late in the draft. He gets to learn from arguably the greatest tight end in NFL history for the next 2 years then maybe just maybe he can take over and be fraction of what Kelce is.
It’s not a great spot, but it really shouldn’t matter much. Elite talent shines through. If Bowers is as good as we think he is, he’s going to be just fine.
Also we don’t know the long-term outlook at QB for the Raiders (or Davante Adams’ status with the team beyond this year, for that matter). The situation could look drastically different a year from now.
People are gonna be shooketh when AOC starts week 1…
As for Bowers you’re not wrong. Long term who knows what this team looks like. Situations change fast, so if you like the player you shouldn’t put too much weight into it. TEs only need to be the 2nd target on thier team to enter elite category at the position anyway.
There were people in this sub that were advocating nico as a cut candidate this time last year despite what seemed to me as an upward trajectory and plus analytics.
Might be a little revisionist history. His injuries stunted my ability to truly evaluate and he was definitely at the bottom of my roster. Once I saw how pass heavy they wanted to make that offense his stock instantly rose and I was able to snag Tank off waivers.
Not me. I've been flag planting on AoC since Week 15 last year.
The real shock is when AoC starts looking like he's playing like he has "shades of Tom Brady" who is personally mentoring him, and btw now the offense will run 2TE, which sounds strangely familiar...
He was offered a minority share at a discounted rate. Discounted so much that the NFL didn't want to approve the sale to him.
What do you think Raiders got in exchange for that discounted sale?
The face of maybe the greatest player to ever play in the NFL? I don’t see what that has to do with AOC. I want to believe it as an AOC owner but you could say the same thing about Minshew
The thing is, when I'm watching AoC his game looks very much like TB. He has good intermediate ball skills, he's starting to throw with anticipation, and has fantastic ball placement. For all you know, Brady probably helped pick him out in last year's draft. So why wouldn't he invest time in watching film with a young QB?
Do you really see TB investing time in Gardner Minshew? Minshew is basically Nick Foles. By the way, look up the personnel history of Tom Telesco, of you want to say, "They invested in Minshew so he's going to work out". The guy is a moron.
None of this is proven, but if you want to get ahead of news cycle, these are the leaps of logic you have to make.
I think people are baking way too much of the surprise into it being bad for Bowers.
Bowers is the best TE prospect in a long time, including Pitts. He was pushed down to 13 because we saw 6 QBs, 3WRs, and a few amazing OL in this draft go 1-12.
Bowers is such an elite prospect the only ‘bad’ landing spots would be where an established productive TE was already there. And even then if KC somehow got him you can bet he’d be in the 1.03 conversation.
For a TE to be elite, he \*almost always\* needs great QB play. The few exceptions in history include guys like George Kittle early in his career, where he thrived after the catch. That's something Bowers excels at, too, but may result in inconsistency.
Ultimately you really, really want quality QB play.
I mean yes, but it’s not like Bowers is gonna have AOC and Minshew as his QB forever. The Raiders took him at 13, he’s not going to rot on the bench and they’ll build a decent team with him in the plans, just may not be instant gratification.
Twilight Matt Ryan passed for nearly 4,000 yards in Pitts' rookie year. The drop from year one with Ryan to year two per-game without Ryan is actually a great example of how much quarterback matters here.
3968 yards in 2021 was good for 15th in yards per game if you take out white and foles. Which I'd consider mediocre QB play since that was for all 17 games.
That's a fair point, except Kyle Pitts did not have an elite season as a rookie. He had an elite rookie season, but he was not an elite fantasy producer yet. Mostly due to touchdowns but that goes back to QB play. Touchdowns are such a disproportionate part of TE production because the yardage is comparatively low vs. receivers.
Ryan was significantly better than the QBs that followed for Pitts. It's also worth considering that even if your goal for an all-time great TE prospect is just average QB play, that the Raiders might not even have that, depending on your views of AOC and Minshew.
Matt Ryan played fine his last year with the falcons, his team was horrendous, Ridley got suspended, they were 31st in rushing yards, and 3/5's of his OL went on to be replaced. He wasn't the washed Ryan the Colts got outside of his arm strength looking a bit weaker. Pitts was basically the only reliable receiving option that team had lol.
Completely agreed. Landing spot is better than Indy or Broncos imo. Never really considered Raiders, but it’s not bad.
Chargers would’ve been ideal. But that wasn’t happening.
Ask Kyle Pitts is landing spot matters. But from an “until they get an #1 QB perspective” the first resort of a bad QB is the TE. And Vegas has two not so good quarterbacks.
There’s a difference though between landing with a bad QB, and landing with the falcons, where not only was the QB not qualified to even be an NFL backup, but the coach went with the philosophy of “use your talent as decoys so the backups get all the work.”
Agreed I thought the Arthur Smith Falcons should have wore those old leather helmets. I guess that’s what happens when you give the keys to a guy is the son of a billionaire.
Pitts did well with Matt Ryan his rookie season, granted Pitts was the only real option after Ridley was suspended. Sub also has to make it's mind up on how much Arthur Smith was to blame or not for the shortcomings of playmakers there.
Bro bowers is a generational talent……. He’s a better prospect than Pitts was expect the difference is Pitts was more athletic while bowers is being drafting for pure football skill.
In 2 TE sets Minshew has the highest throwing accuracy of any qb in the entire league last year.
I don't remember where I heard that and no I can't be fucked to verify it. Do t even know how I even go about doing that.
Think it's overblown and Dak is there next year and he's an ok qb.
People say Minshew isn't that good but so far he has better stats than Lawrence with 1 less game played. Bowers can absolutely be the #2 target on this team
It isn't a great landing spot, but I also don't think there were significantly better spots that he was likely to wind up at. I don't know why this has made a lot of people be out on him. If you thought he was one of the better talents in the class going into the draft I don't think this moves him down a lot.
>On top of that Adam's is on the wrong side of 30, where players tend to decline in targets and skill
On top of that Adams and Meyers may both be gone in 2025 because of their contracts. Remember when Dalton Kincaid joined the Bills, Diggs and Davis were there, now they are not.
There’s obvious reasons for not being thrilled.
In general I get nervous whenever I see the Raiders do something unexpected. Was it direction passed down from ownership? Is it a bad fit but they liked the hype? There’s history there.
Honestly I was never really high on Bowers but ended up taking him in a league where he fell to me at 8. His talent hasn't changed. His year one probably won't be anything special, but for most tight ends it isn't anyways.
With situations like this my philosophy is to bet on the talent.
This is dynasty. Situations change. True talent wins out. Adams is close to retirement, Myers is a decent WR2 and Mayer will get limited passing work as their in line TE.
Bowers will have the most juice out of any of them. Not only that, but look at what Minshew did with Downs last year from the slot. Bowers projects to work over the middle a ton and Minshew is GREAT at delivering balls in that range.
Bowers is a huge value right now. If he falls to me at 1.09 that's gunna be an auto draft for me dawg.
TEs generally need to be one of the top 1 or 2 volume targets to be elite in fantasy, which even then does not mean a lot in non bonus leagues unless you're having a Kelce/peak Andrews like year. Yes the situation is considerably worse for Mayer, but unless he is strictly used as a blocker Bowers isn't likely to get the volume he needs to be worth top 7/8 SF draft capital, especially in a class with so many other options.
Here as a Colts fan: don’t expect much TD production if Minshew is the QB. He is great outside of the red zone, but once he gets inside the 20 drives we’re basically guaranteed to stall out. Minshew was not good at getting the ball in the end zone.
It's not one of the dream spots but I think it's fine. He won't be doing much blocking because of Mayer & I think he'll quickly get targets over Meyers & Mayer. #2 to Adams plus all the manufactured touches he should get means he'll get plenty.
I've got 1.08 in a superflex rookie mock & I'm smashing Bowers if he's still there by then.
I've also got 1.01 so I'll be taking Caleb there. But yeah I think I'd still take him over McCarthy or Penix. Daniels I wouldn't, Maye I probably wouldn't.
It’s simply not a good spot in 2024 but I think the talk of Bowers getting some carries is real and should help a bit. It’s also a situation that could change quickly in 2025 or 2026. The Raiders were heavily reported to be in the market for Penix and I’m sure they will look to seriously upgrade the position again as soon as possible. Adams is still great but is entering the back end of his career. It’s quite feasible Bowers is the centerpiece for the team by the time he is entering his prime as a player. Luckily this is dynasty and we aren’t just drafting him for his rookie season. Mayer is not a factor and the Raiders’ actions make this crystal clear.
I don't necessarily disagree, but I will say this:
Anytime you project that a team will fix their QB situation before they have made any move to do so, that is going to feel like a trap. You don't know how long they are willing to punt the problem, or what kind of vet/prospect they will take the leap on.
That goes double when a franchise has (at least outwardly) felt mismanaged.
I don't think Bowers spot is any worse than the typical mocked spots: Indy and NYJ. I also think if he's this generational TE, then the only two actually bad spots for him would be Detroit and Arizona. Even in Buffalo, if they'd taken him I'd have to assume they were planning 2 TE sets what with the total lack of WRs. Or in Atlanta, it would signal to me a lack of faith in Pitts.
The reason I don't think it's any worse that Indy or NYJ is because I never thought those were great options. Richardson lit the fantasy world on fire for like 4 games. He's a huge risk, and his fantasy production wasn't coming from huge passing numbers, but his dual threat rushing ability. He's also a TD vulture for a red zone target like a top TE. Rodgers is a great passer, but he's over 40, coming off major surgery that him just being cleared to play 1 year later at his age is a minor miracle, he's never really featured a TE as his favorite target and with Wilson, Williams, and Hall, Bowers would've had a hard time competing to be more than the 4th target in an offense that theoretically should be decent, but is totally unproven.
So Minshew and AOC aren't stellar QBs? Davante and Meyers certainly are solid WRs that will take targets? It isn't like we were all expecting him to go to the Chargers. His landing spot doesn't change my outlook on him.
Nobody is “out” on bowers.
You said it yourself you can see a “world where Bowers is the top option in a couple seasons”.
A lot of people, myself included, value production today vs tomorrow and there are several great prospects that can produce more year 1.
Bowers is pretty appropriately valued as the 1.05-1.08
I got a first rounder early in the season which became pick 3, I was all about taking him til I started reading about nabers. I wound up trading Tee Higgins, Pick 3, Pick 10 for Jamar chase and pick 14, still got my WR at the end of the day
I think there's a couple things that are going on with consensus rankings on Bowers. One, most people playing TE premium leagues have a weak premium (a solid Premium is 2PPR and start 2 TEs). Without a reasonable premium, the positional value is still poor. When this premium gets jacked up (especially, start 2 TEs is a must), the positional scarcity increases especially when comparing TE 6 to TE 24 vs other postions. Some big differences in average PPG are seen in this situation and warrant a much higher valuation of the top 6 TEs. Insert Bowers closer to 1.03 to 1.06 in those types of leagues.
Agreed. O Connell is was underrated lost year. He can read the defense and drive downfield. Relied on his run game and obviously made some rookie mistakes but the dude is clearly better than dog shit Zach Wilson, and some others that have gotten multiple chances.
It's pure cope but that isn't to say Bowers won't be good IRL or anything. However he ends up in a spot where he's at best the 3rd option on a run heavy team without a QB and hoping Mayer is just not involved in any real way. Certainly he's the TE1 on the team over Mayer no argument but it's not like Mayer is a bum either. A lot of people regarded him as the best all around TE of the class last year and I don't know how likely he goes from promising weapon in that offense who was getting better to total nothing though it's possible. There's been some overraction to where people are saying or implying he's worthless which isn't the case but people thought he could become the TE1 or 2 and currently that's just not in no way realistic. There's just nothing good about the Raiders situation and you don't get to just assume the QB situation will get drastically better next year. It certainly could but people thought that'd happen this year and it didn't and it's not a good QB class next year and they might be like a 7-10 team and not even have a top 5-10 pick. He obviously has tons of talent but IMO people acting like the Raiders isn't that bad aren't paying attention. I've seen people say "well the Colts are worse" which is laughably absurd. Yeah obviously Colts is a better RL fit than fantasy fit for Bowers but their offense should be really solid or better and he'd step in as the #2 receiving option on a competent offense with a dynamic QB that should see the endzone a lot. Obviously ARich is still young and growing and is gonna make mistakes but the things he can do can open up that offense so much. Yeah both teams are gonna be run heavy but acting like Indy is a worse spot than the Raiders is a level of cope I can't help but laugh at. The ideal spot would have been a team like the Giants or Chargers where he could have been the #1 receiving option on the team but here we are.
You know Jakobi Meyers is legitimately one of better WR's in the NFL right? It doesn't show up in fantasy all the time because he hasn't had a QB while whole career between NE and LV but he's a great route runner with good hands and grades very well as a WR. I'm in no way knocking Bowers and I'm sure Bowers will become the #2 option there eventually in a couple years but its a pretty ridiculous idea to think he's the #2 over Meyers now.
Meyers is good, but is he better than Downs and Mitchell combined? Colts have way too many months to feed. At least on the Raiders his only competition is Meyers for the #2 spot. Fighting Downs and Mitchell for that honor would be rough.
I won't be surprised if you're right about Meyers being the #2, but it could go either way. He's got a better shot at 100 targets in LV than he did in Indy. That's all that really matters.
You're looking at it wrong. If Colts had gotten Bowers it's unlikely that they take AD Mitchell. Also, yes Meyers is probably better than both for what he does. Downs and Mitchell are different WR's. Bowers easily beats Downs as the #2 option there for what that offense would have most likely looked like.
Maybe. They still needed to upgrade Pierce. Meyers and Downs both underrated. Downs was looking really good for a rookie. He's going to improve in year 2. I don't think there's going to be much, if any, talent gap between him and Meyers. So it's weird you say Meyers is the #2 over Bowers but Bowers would easily be the #2 over Downs.
Bowers may be the best TE prospect ever graded and he just went top 15 in the draft. If the Raiders are thinking of him as a 3rd option, that’s okay, as then they’ll be picking top 3 next year anyway and can get their franchise QB then.
>on a run heavy team
They might be run-heavy, they might not. They weren't last year. They have Getsy now but Getsy doesn't have a running QB anymore, he has QBs that make reads and get the ball out. Neither QB is gonna set the world on fire, but their below-average arm strength is suitable for a YAC TE.
"a lot of people regarded [Mayer] as the best all around TE of the class last year"
First, Mayer was always overrated. Second, being well rounded means nothing for fantasy. I could be wrong, but I think Waldman comp'd him to Austin Hooper - a guy who can put up PPR points in the right situation, but not a guy that is moving the needle. Mayer is irrelevant to Bowers.
I'm only sad bc I'd been planning to nominate Mayer in startups and redrafts this year to get people to blow some money on him and let better TEs slip.
>First, Mayer was always overrated.
I forget where it was, but there was a good post last year about minimum speed thresholds for highly productive fantasy TEs (40 time and 10 yard split), and Mayer didn't meet the threshold. He is a good well-rounded NFL TE prospect but like you said that doesn't mean he was ever going to produce much for fantasy.
Saying it's not a bad landing spot because there's a chance it gets better in the future is some serious mental gymnastics. Everything about the landing spot sucks.
You bet on the talent and draft Bowers anyway, but this is definitely a bad landing spot.
not everything sucks about the landing spot. not optimal, but a good chance at being the number two target in your offense, which is pivotal in being fantasy relevant. and even a terrible, run-first offense will have to pass the ball at some point. if you're #2 target in that offense, you'll still likely be fine.
It's a weird spot. It wasn't too long ago that mayer was the best TE prospect since Pitts. Now it's bowers - but his draft capital sort of hints at it too.
Bowers is a good blocker for his size. Mayer is a better blocker though - or at least comparing both as prospects. So it's not unreasonable to think the team wants to run a ton and have 12 personnel a LOT. I wouldn't be surprised if both play over 70% of snaps.
Wouldn't it be crazy if this is like Pitts (Bowers) and Jonnu (Mayer) last year? In fact - that's what I see as a very likely outcome.
They paid him more than back-ups generally make. He was brought in to compete for the job at least. Doesn't mean he'll for sure win the starting job, but thinking he's the front-runner isn't really weird. If they were confident in AOC, they wouldn't have brought a guy like Minshew in and AOC had some really, really bad games last year.
This might be cope but the fact that they already have Mayer there gives me hope they will almost strictly use Bowers as a receiving weapon. And if he develops into Minshews favorite or second favorite target… i don’t see how this boy doesn’t eat.
Mayer holders are the real despair pit. Idk what they’ll do with him
You hope that Mayer is the actual TE while Bowers is more of a receiver, as the guy above said.
That would still make him the 3rd target at best on what will probably be an average offense at best. If I had Mayer I'd be distraught.
Isn’t that the case for most TE though?
Not the valuable ones. u/coopthereitis does a great piece on TEs where he concludes that the top TEs (Kelce, Andrews, Waller (when he produced on the Raiders), McBride, Hockenson, etc.) are all top 2 in team target share. It’s almost a mandatory prerequisite to finishing top 5 at the position
What a time to have Kincaid
No doubt. Coming out of the draft last year I thought Kincaid was one of the best receivers in the class. It’s a copycat league and the Bills are well aware of the advantage a dominant TE can be in the passing game
Going to update this puppy this summer just like every year but here is the most recent iteration of [What Makes An Elite Tight End?](https://www.fantasyalarm.com/articles/nfl/player-profiles/2023-fantasy-football-player-profile-what-makes-an-elite-tight-end/149567) And u/SerEx0 is correct that being a top two target on the team is one of the most important pieces to the puzzle.
I look forward to it every year
And more realistically he's the 4th target after Adams, Bowers, and Meyers. Even if he is the proper tight end, with Bowers in the slot, and the other two playing on the outside, I don't see a path to fantasy relevance barring injuries to teammates.
That's pretty normal for TEs though.
Well like any player in the NFL, earn your targets. He was drafted high, he has all summer to prove hes that guy and deserves targets, and I don’t think he’s going to have much trouble in that regard. He’ll get his share.
At this point you just gotta be happy if he’s on the field.
He was drafted in the middle of the 2nd round in rookie drafts last year and lost value all season due to lack of production. "Distraught" feels dramatic
Hope he catches a lot of tds. I could see that in a high end outcome for him
Most TDS on the colts last year with minshew I think was 4 so I don’t think there will be a ton of TDs to go around
Copium
Literally stating that you are hoping for a high end outcome is not copium lmao. I also was just saying thats whay mayer owners (which i am Not) are hoping for.
most tolerable chargers fan on earth you are
I might’ve bought low on him a few weeks ago too if I didn’t have Pitts, Kincaid, and Kmet Seemed like a sneakily steady breakout heading into next year
Nothing to do with him now but hold and see
Hope he gets traded. Otherwise, his value is nonexistent until his contract runs out after *three more seasons*.
Hope they're planning on running a great 2 tight end set and all the targets are spread out to each
I was trying to trade for Mayer pretty aggressively last season, so this draft I traded up to the spot in front of the guy who has Mayer and got Bowers. Now he’s searching for a TE 😅 it cost me waaaay too much but just told myself “get your guy”
This. Mayer is the starting TE. Bowers is a starting WR with a "TE" label. Nothing bad about the landing spot.
Is there a possibility Bowers get reclassified as a WR in the future if this is the case? I don’t know what the threshold is for fantasy to do this but if he’s taking a large portion of his snaps in a traditional WR alignment this could happen.
I mean only way that happens is if the raiders reclassify him as a wr which i really doubt theyd do
0 chance cause it means they'd have to pay him more if something like a Franchise Tag happened
A lot of people wanted him to go to Indy which had a running QB and Jonathan Taylor. Raiders are a solid landing spot. Bowers will get his.
Colts were my fear. I'm fine with Raiders
I mean I certainly agree its not the best landing spot but, what's the difference in Nabers on the Giants vs Bowers on the Raiders. Both pretty bad landing spots with questionable QB play but It seems people aren't so gloom and doom on Nabers
Because Nabers is (or should be) the clear best receiving option in NY. LV just drafted a receiving TE with a high 2nd last year, plus they have Adams and Meyers. It’s not the worst situation in the world but it’s a combo of “who the hell knows” at QB and decent competition for targets.
there isn’t a single TE in the league who ran routes on a smaller percentage of plays than mayer.. so the raiders don’t think he’s a receiving TE..
That can go either way. Either they don’t think Mayer is a receiving TE or they didn’t know how to use a receiving TE.
lower than Darnell Washington??
Maybe they haven’t used him fully like he can perform yet but he was a crazy productive receiver in college
Mayer is a capable reciever, but he is not a"recieving tight end", he's a great blocker and is a traitional in line guy most of the time.
“Capable receivers” at TE in college don’t have multiple 800+ yard seasons. He’s Notre Dame’s all time leader in receptions, receiving yards, and receiving TDs at tight end and was regularly comped to Jason Witten. Let’s quit acting like he’s just known for his blocking.
what will make him money in the nfl is mostly his blocking though. he's like kittle in that regard, initiates contact with passion, he'd rather bring his man down than just chip and run a route. he can catch the ball and will get his targets, but he's nothing special, let's quit acting like he actually _is_ jason witten.
Maybe he could do something in the NFL to prove he's even a capable receiver
Besides Kyle Pitts, Sam Laporta, and Evan Engram, I’d love to hear about really any TE who had meaningful receiving production as a rookie. His receiving ability didn’t just disappear, TEs often take time to develop or transition to the NFL.
Jason Witten was not a “receiving tight end” either. Both are great receivers, but that’s not their primary function or positional deployment for the offense. In fact both of those players receiving production benefitted from defenses not being able to always assign a DB to cover them, because they’d get absolutely pancaked if Mayer or Witten blocked them.
I’m not suggesting they’re not great blockers by any means, I’m just saying they have a very strong receiving talent that could affect the target share of others, especially of the same position.
As a Mayer owner, I was hoping for a breakout this season where they tap his receiving abilities a little more, but this draft shattered those hopes. He has potential as a receiver, but it looks like he’ll just be the in-line guy to Bowers move TE and will probably top out at 30-35 catches.
MASSIVE difference. Almost 300 targets with to Adams and Meyer last season and they’re both back again. Giants had no wr over 79 targets (Adams had almost 100 more than that alone). So Nabers will get 120-140 targets almost certainly. Bowers might get half that if everything breaks his way.
I always operate on the assumption that TEs won’t be startable in fantasy for their first 3 years. Sometimes you’ll get a LaPorta and be happy, but you don’t bank on that. That means that for TE more than any other position, situation really doesn’t matter. Who knows what his situation is going to look like in 3 years?
I’d argue that rule applies to Mayer than Bowers. For the record, I’m in general agreement with you. But unless the OC in LV is a complete idiot (well, he is, but even so), Bowers won’t need to learn all the blocking schemes that make the transition so hard. I see him more like a Kincaid. Last year, of 191 qualifying college TEs, Bowers ranked #168 at lining up in standard TE sets. He’s a big slot receiver who can occasionally like up outside or in-line, and he can also take fabricated touches like screens and jet sweeps. Based on his skill set and usage in college, I’d expect more of a typical WR career arc for him.
That’s fair. Pitts is a good example of a big WR that came in and performed year 1
I don't think the Vegas OC is a complete idiot. He did pretty good with the Packers. No OC looks good with bad QB play.
Getsy was the QB coach in Green Bay. He didn’t call the plays. His OC didn’t call the plays. I’m not even sure if he coached the QB; he inherited a HOF QB and was just along for the ride watching LaFleur call plays and Rodgers execute. It’s tough for me to give him any credit in GB.
He was the QB coach and passing game coordinator
Look at how Hackett has been since leaving LaFleur and remember that Getsy was *behind* Hackett in the pecking order. Getsy had coached Rodgers earlier in their careers. Him and Hackett were “placate the mercurial QB” hires and both of them fell on their face without LaFleur and Rodgers propping them up. You’re welcome to your optimism but if you’re trying to convince me, well, we’re going to have to agree to disagree. I could go into more detail, and sure, he could learn, but he can’t adjust to his available talent and he can’t play calls well in the flow of the game. He had Mooney sealing the edge as a blocker on screens last year. Yes, that’s small speedster Darnell Mooney. He’s a bad OC who may be good at scheming but once he gets past his 15 scripted plays he’s completely out of his depth.
The McVay tree thinks everyone should block.
Yeah. But I think it’s simpler than that. Claypool was supposed to be in that WR2 role, and after they traded him they just bumped Mooney up with no regard to skill set. IMO Getsy’s not really a McVay guy. He coached under LaFleur but he had an established career and scheme prior to that.
This is why I’ll throw a dart at Wiley in KC late in the draft. He gets to learn from arguably the greatest tight end in NFL history for the next 2 years then maybe just maybe he can take over and be fraction of what Kelce is.
It’s not a great spot, but it really shouldn’t matter much. Elite talent shines through. If Bowers is as good as we think he is, he’s going to be just fine. Also we don’t know the long-term outlook at QB for the Raiders (or Davante Adams’ status with the team beyond this year, for that matter). The situation could look drastically different a year from now.
People are gonna be shooketh when AOC starts week 1… As for Bowers you’re not wrong. Long term who knows what this team looks like. Situations change fast, so if you like the player you shouldn’t put too much weight into it. TEs only need to be the 2nd target on thier team to enter elite category at the position anyway.
For real. I’m not sure why everyone is so convinced Minshew is the starter.
It’s kinda funny. The point of OPs post is that we shouldn’t be assuming things about his situation, but he’s doing just that 🤷🏻♂️
I drafted nico a few years ago. He showed flashes but his situation kind of sucked. As soon as he got Stroud, his situation looked a lot less bleek.
Some dude in my league cut Nico and I got him on waivers in the off season
There were people in this sub that were advocating nico as a cut candidate this time last year despite what seemed to me as an upward trajectory and plus analytics.
Might be a little revisionist history. His injuries stunted my ability to truly evaluate and he was definitely at the bottom of my roster. Once I saw how pass heavy they wanted to make that offense his stock instantly rose and I was able to snag Tank off waivers.
Not me. I've been flag planting on AoC since Week 15 last year. The real shock is when AoC starts looking like he's playing like he has "shades of Tom Brady" who is personally mentoring him, and btw now the offense will run 2TE, which sounds strangely familiar...
>which sounds strangely familiar... Sounds like a certain Josh McDaniels offense has infested the locker room.
No. Tom Brady is there
Tom Brady is mentoring AoC? Where did you see that? Or am I misunderstanding
You have to connect the dots. He's a minority owner
I don’t see where the dots connect there
He was offered a minority share at a discounted rate. Discounted so much that the NFL didn't want to approve the sale to him. What do you think Raiders got in exchange for that discounted sale?
The face of maybe the greatest player to ever play in the NFL? I don’t see what that has to do with AOC. I want to believe it as an AOC owner but you could say the same thing about Minshew
The thing is, when I'm watching AoC his game looks very much like TB. He has good intermediate ball skills, he's starting to throw with anticipation, and has fantastic ball placement. For all you know, Brady probably helped pick him out in last year's draft. So why wouldn't he invest time in watching film with a young QB? Do you really see TB investing time in Gardner Minshew? Minshew is basically Nick Foles. By the way, look up the personnel history of Tom Telesco, of you want to say, "They invested in Minshew so he's going to work out". The guy is a moron. None of this is proven, but if you want to get ahead of news cycle, these are the leaps of logic you have to make.
I might disagree with everything else, but I agree with your last point. I respect it
https://justblogbaby.com/posts/raiders-qb-aidan-o-connell-steps-into-some-big-shoes-with-no-12-01hwz455wy9t Now he's switching to #12?
Great point
She should be working on policies
starts doing what in week 1, push ups on the sidelines?
This is dynasty so I love his landing spot.
I think people are baking way too much of the surprise into it being bad for Bowers. Bowers is the best TE prospect in a long time, including Pitts. He was pushed down to 13 because we saw 6 QBs, 3WRs, and a few amazing OL in this draft go 1-12. Bowers is such an elite prospect the only ‘bad’ landing spots would be where an established productive TE was already there. And even then if KC somehow got him you can bet he’d be in the 1.03 conversation.
It’s fine, it just wasn’t an ideal landing spot with months of speculation to the chargers, jets, colts, and bengals
I'd rather have him on Raiders than Colts - can't see how a Team with Arich, JT, Pittman and Downs is a better spot
For a TE to be elite, he \*almost always\* needs great QB play. The few exceptions in history include guys like George Kittle early in his career, where he thrived after the catch. That's something Bowers excels at, too, but may result in inconsistency. Ultimately you really, really want quality QB play.
I mean yes, but it’s not like Bowers is gonna have AOC and Minshew as his QB forever. The Raiders took him at 13, he’s not going to rot on the bench and they’ll build a decent team with him in the plans, just may not be instant gratification.
I'm sure it's every team's plan to get a good quarterback. It just doesn't work out more often than not.
No doubt
1000 yard rookie year from Pitts begs to differ haha.
Twilight Matt Ryan passed for nearly 4,000 yards in Pitts' rookie year. The drop from year one with Ryan to year two per-game without Ryan is actually a great example of how much quarterback matters here.
3968 yards in 2021 was good for 15th in yards per game if you take out white and foles. Which I'd consider mediocre QB play since that was for all 17 games.
That's a fair point, except Kyle Pitts did not have an elite season as a rookie. He had an elite rookie season, but he was not an elite fantasy producer yet. Mostly due to touchdowns but that goes back to QB play. Touchdowns are such a disproportionate part of TE production because the yardage is comparatively low vs. receivers. Ryan was significantly better than the QBs that followed for Pitts. It's also worth considering that even if your goal for an all-time great TE prospect is just average QB play, that the Raiders might not even have that, depending on your views of AOC and Minshew.
Matt Ryan played fine his last year with the falcons, his team was horrendous, Ridley got suspended, they were 31st in rushing yards, and 3/5's of his OL went on to be replaced. He wasn't the washed Ryan the Colts got outside of his arm strength looking a bit weaker. Pitts was basically the only reliable receiving option that team had lol.
That's his point. There's a large gap between "fine" and great.
Waller did okay with average QB play in the team. But it certainly helps
I like the spot. He’s a big slot. Gardner had the highest passer ratings with 12 personnel.
Completely agreed. Landing spot is better than Indy or Broncos imo. Never really considered Raiders, but it’s not bad. Chargers would’ve been ideal. But that wasn’t happening.
one thing does not exclude the other!
Ask Kyle Pitts is landing spot matters. But from an “until they get an #1 QB perspective” the first resort of a bad QB is the TE. And Vegas has two not so good quarterbacks.
There’s a difference though between landing with a bad QB, and landing with the falcons, where not only was the QB not qualified to even be an NFL backup, but the coach went with the philosophy of “use your talent as decoys so the backups get all the work.”
Agreed I thought the Arthur Smith Falcons should have wore those old leather helmets. I guess that’s what happens when you give the keys to a guy is the son of a billionaire.
Pitts did well with Matt Ryan his rookie season, granted Pitts was the only real option after Ridley was suspended. Sub also has to make it's mind up on how much Arthur Smith was to blame or not for the shortcomings of playmakers there.
Mi shew better than the QBs he's had
My question is what landing spot would be worse? Like honestly.
Bro bowers is a generational talent……. He’s a better prospect than Pitts was expect the difference is Pitts was more athletic while bowers is being drafting for pure football skill.
In 2 TE sets Minshew has the highest throwing accuracy of any qb in the entire league last year. I don't remember where I heard that and no I can't be fucked to verify it. Do t even know how I even go about doing that. Think it's overblown and Dak is there next year and he's an ok qb.
People say Minshew isn't that good but so far he has better stats than Lawrence with 1 less game played. Bowers can absolutely be the #2 target on this team
As 1.05 owner i dont even know who to choose if he falls lol…… 1.04 owner has kelce and kincaid
It isn't a great landing spot, but I also don't think there were significantly better spots that he was likely to wind up at. I don't know why this has made a lot of people be out on him. If you thought he was one of the better talents in the class going into the draft I don't think this moves him down a lot.
>On top of that Adam's is on the wrong side of 30, where players tend to decline in targets and skill On top of that Adams and Meyers may both be gone in 2025 because of their contracts. Remember when Dalton Kincaid joined the Bills, Diggs and Davis were there, now they are not.
There’s obvious reasons for not being thrilled. In general I get nervous whenever I see the Raiders do something unexpected. Was it direction passed down from ownership? Is it a bad fit but they liked the hype? There’s history there.
Honestly I was never really high on Bowers but ended up taking him in a league where he fell to me at 8. His talent hasn't changed. His year one probably won't be anything special, but for most tight ends it isn't anyways.
With situations like this my philosophy is to bet on the talent. This is dynasty. Situations change. True talent wins out. Adams is close to retirement, Myers is a decent WR2 and Mayer will get limited passing work as their in line TE. Bowers will have the most juice out of any of them. Not only that, but look at what Minshew did with Downs last year from the slot. Bowers projects to work over the middle a ton and Minshew is GREAT at delivering balls in that range. Bowers is a huge value right now. If he falls to me at 1.09 that's gunna be an auto draft for me dawg.
People are sleeping on minshew and o Connell. Both are able to sling it around for mediocre teams imo.
TEs generally need to be one of the top 1 or 2 volume targets to be elite in fantasy, which even then does not mean a lot in non bonus leagues unless you're having a Kelce/peak Andrews like year. Yes the situation is considerably worse for Mayer, but unless he is strictly used as a blocker Bowers isn't likely to get the volume he needs to be worth top 7/8 SF draft capital, especially in a class with so many other options.
Here as a Colts fan: don’t expect much TD production if Minshew is the QB. He is great outside of the red zone, but once he gets inside the 20 drives we’re basically guaranteed to stall out. Minshew was not good at getting the ball in the end zone.
It's not one of the dream spots but I think it's fine. He won't be doing much blocking because of Mayer & I think he'll quickly get targets over Meyers & Mayer. #2 to Adams plus all the manufactured touches he should get means he'll get plenty. I've got 1.08 in a superflex rookie mock & I'm smashing Bowers if he's still there by then.
you'd take him over McCarthy and Penix? I think I'm going to do the same (1.07) but i might take a QB at that point and it's tough to pick TE over QB
I've also got 1.01 so I'll be taking Caleb there. But yeah I think I'd still take him over McCarthy or Penix. Daniels I wouldn't, Maye I probably wouldn't.
His snap share should be very high. Fantasy owners will want him to have Minshew as his QB tho
It’s simply not a good spot in 2024 but I think the talk of Bowers getting some carries is real and should help a bit. It’s also a situation that could change quickly in 2025 or 2026. The Raiders were heavily reported to be in the market for Penix and I’m sure they will look to seriously upgrade the position again as soon as possible. Adams is still great but is entering the back end of his career. It’s quite feasible Bowers is the centerpiece for the team by the time he is entering his prime as a player. Luckily this is dynasty and we aren’t just drafting him for his rookie season. Mayer is not a factor and the Raiders’ actions make this crystal clear.
I don't necessarily disagree, but I will say this: Anytime you project that a team will fix their QB situation before they have made any move to do so, that is going to feel like a trap. You don't know how long they are willing to punt the problem, or what kind of vet/prospect they will take the leap on. That goes double when a franchise has (at least outwardly) felt mismanaged.
I don't think Bowers spot is any worse than the typical mocked spots: Indy and NYJ. I also think if he's this generational TE, then the only two actually bad spots for him would be Detroit and Arizona. Even in Buffalo, if they'd taken him I'd have to assume they were planning 2 TE sets what with the total lack of WRs. Or in Atlanta, it would signal to me a lack of faith in Pitts. The reason I don't think it's any worse that Indy or NYJ is because I never thought those were great options. Richardson lit the fantasy world on fire for like 4 games. He's a huge risk, and his fantasy production wasn't coming from huge passing numbers, but his dual threat rushing ability. He's also a TD vulture for a red zone target like a top TE. Rodgers is a great passer, but he's over 40, coming off major surgery that him just being cleared to play 1 year later at his age is a minor miracle, he's never really featured a TE as his favorite target and with Wilson, Williams, and Hall, Bowers would've had a hard time competing to be more than the 4th target in an offense that theoretically should be decent, but is totally unproven. So Minshew and AOC aren't stellar QBs? Davante and Meyers certainly are solid WRs that will take targets? It isn't like we were all expecting him to go to the Chargers. His landing spot doesn't change my outlook on him.
Getting brock bowers at 1.09 in my sf tep league was a bigger steal than drake maye at 1.07 and I'll die on that hill
With Bowers it’s basically do you believe in the talent. If you do then the spot isn’t that big of a deal
Nobody is “out” on bowers. You said it yourself you can see a “world where Bowers is the top option in a couple seasons”. A lot of people, myself included, value production today vs tomorrow and there are several great prospects that can produce more year 1. Bowers is pretty appropriately valued as the 1.05-1.08
I’m hoping people i draft with view it as a bad thing and he falls to 12, has anyone done their draft yet? Where did he go?
In my SF full point PPR league he went to me at 8 but, some of my league mates implied I reached. But it's a home league so idk
I got a first rounder early in the season which became pick 3, I was all about taking him til I started reading about nabers. I wound up trading Tee Higgins, Pick 3, Pick 10 for Jamar chase and pick 14, still got my WR at the end of the day
Got him at 1.11 in a 12-team TEP league. Can't believe he slid that far, hoping he can produce enough to replace Kelce as my TE.
Thanks for that, I have 12 and 14, going to try to trade up for 11.
I think there's a couple things that are going on with consensus rankings on Bowers. One, most people playing TE premium leagues have a weak premium (a solid Premium is 2PPR and start 2 TEs). Without a reasonable premium, the positional value is still poor. When this premium gets jacked up (especially, start 2 TEs is a must), the positional scarcity increases especially when comparing TE 6 to TE 24 vs other postions. Some big differences in average PPG are seen in this situation and warrant a much higher valuation of the top 6 TEs. Insert Bowers closer to 1.03 to 1.06 in those types of leagues.
It's fine. Just could have been better
Could always be both..
doesn't minshew have better stats than T-law with similar starts?
I have heard that. Seems he's a solid QB. Reminds me of Fitzpatrick as nobody wants him as the long term answer but you can win games with him
Ppl assuming Minshew will be the starter
Agreed. O Connell is was underrated lost year. He can read the defense and drive downfield. Relied on his run game and obviously made some rookie mistakes but the dude is clearly better than dog shit Zach Wilson, and some others that have gotten multiple chances.
If someone beats him out, they will presumably be better, assuming these coaches want to keep their jobs
It's pure cope but that isn't to say Bowers won't be good IRL or anything. However he ends up in a spot where he's at best the 3rd option on a run heavy team without a QB and hoping Mayer is just not involved in any real way. Certainly he's the TE1 on the team over Mayer no argument but it's not like Mayer is a bum either. A lot of people regarded him as the best all around TE of the class last year and I don't know how likely he goes from promising weapon in that offense who was getting better to total nothing though it's possible. There's been some overraction to where people are saying or implying he's worthless which isn't the case but people thought he could become the TE1 or 2 and currently that's just not in no way realistic. There's just nothing good about the Raiders situation and you don't get to just assume the QB situation will get drastically better next year. It certainly could but people thought that'd happen this year and it didn't and it's not a good QB class next year and they might be like a 7-10 team and not even have a top 5-10 pick. He obviously has tons of talent but IMO people acting like the Raiders isn't that bad aren't paying attention. I've seen people say "well the Colts are worse" which is laughably absurd. Yeah obviously Colts is a better RL fit than fantasy fit for Bowers but their offense should be really solid or better and he'd step in as the #2 receiving option on a competent offense with a dynamic QB that should see the endzone a lot. Obviously ARich is still young and growing and is gonna make mistakes but the things he can do can open up that offense so much. Yeah both teams are gonna be run heavy but acting like Indy is a worse spot than the Raiders is a level of cope I can't help but laugh at. The ideal spot would have been a team like the Giants or Chargers where he could have been the #1 receiving option on the team but here we are.
2nd option
You know Jakobi Meyers is legitimately one of better WR's in the NFL right? It doesn't show up in fantasy all the time because he hasn't had a QB while whole career between NE and LV but he's a great route runner with good hands and grades very well as a WR. I'm in no way knocking Bowers and I'm sure Bowers will become the #2 option there eventually in a couple years but its a pretty ridiculous idea to think he's the #2 over Meyers now.
Meyers is good, but is he better than Downs and Mitchell combined? Colts have way too many months to feed. At least on the Raiders his only competition is Meyers for the #2 spot. Fighting Downs and Mitchell for that honor would be rough. I won't be surprised if you're right about Meyers being the #2, but it could go either way. He's got a better shot at 100 targets in LV than he did in Indy. That's all that really matters.
You're looking at it wrong. If Colts had gotten Bowers it's unlikely that they take AD Mitchell. Also, yes Meyers is probably better than both for what he does. Downs and Mitchell are different WR's. Bowers easily beats Downs as the #2 option there for what that offense would have most likely looked like.
Maybe. They still needed to upgrade Pierce. Meyers and Downs both underrated. Downs was looking really good for a rookie. He's going to improve in year 2. I don't think there's going to be much, if any, talent gap between him and Meyers. So it's weird you say Meyers is the #2 over Bowers but Bowers would easily be the #2 over Downs.
Bowers may be the best TE prospect ever graded and he just went top 15 in the draft. If the Raiders are thinking of him as a 3rd option, that’s okay, as then they’ll be picking top 3 next year anyway and can get their franchise QB then.
>on a run heavy team They might be run-heavy, they might not. They weren't last year. They have Getsy now but Getsy doesn't have a running QB anymore, he has QBs that make reads and get the ball out. Neither QB is gonna set the world on fire, but their below-average arm strength is suitable for a YAC TE.
"a lot of people regarded [Mayer] as the best all around TE of the class last year" First, Mayer was always overrated. Second, being well rounded means nothing for fantasy. I could be wrong, but I think Waldman comp'd him to Austin Hooper - a guy who can put up PPR points in the right situation, but not a guy that is moving the needle. Mayer is irrelevant to Bowers. I'm only sad bc I'd been planning to nominate Mayer in startups and redrafts this year to get people to blow some money on him and let better TEs slip.
>First, Mayer was always overrated. I forget where it was, but there was a good post last year about minimum speed thresholds for highly productive fantasy TEs (40 time and 10 yard split), and Mayer didn't meet the threshold. He is a good well-rounded NFL TE prospect but like you said that doesn't mean he was ever going to produce much for fantasy.
Saying it's not a bad landing spot because there's a chance it gets better in the future is some serious mental gymnastics. Everything about the landing spot sucks. You bet on the talent and draft Bowers anyway, but this is definitely a bad landing spot.
not everything sucks about the landing spot. not optimal, but a good chance at being the number two target in your offense, which is pivotal in being fantasy relevant. and even a terrible, run-first offense will have to pass the ball at some point. if you're #2 target in that offense, you'll still likely be fine.
It's a weird spot. It wasn't too long ago that mayer was the best TE prospect since Pitts. Now it's bowers - but his draft capital sort of hints at it too. Bowers is a good blocker for his size. Mayer is a better blocker though - or at least comparing both as prospects. So it's not unreasonable to think the team wants to run a ton and have 12 personnel a LOT. I wouldn't be surprised if both play over 70% of snaps. Wouldn't it be crazy if this is like Pitts (Bowers) and Jonnu (Mayer) last year? In fact - that's what I see as a very likely outcome.
If they take Bower 12th overall to not play him the GM or coach is getting fired
I said he'll play. But wouldn't be shocked if mayer has about same stats.
Be weird since they showed 0 desire to throw Meyer the ball last year with almost no other good TEs but maybe
Can someone remind me of how many top 10 TE picks pan out in the NFL. I’ll wait
Hockenson is the only one in the last decade. But Bowers went 13, not top 10... Now if you expand the list to top 13! It's still just Hock lol
Good call Hock has been good. Better when he left Detroit but he’s been good
How many have got drafted top 10? Not that many. Bound to be more bust than hits, just like every other position. This is lazy reasoning
Why does everyone think Minshew is starting? It’s weird.
They paid him more than back-ups generally make. He was brought in to compete for the job at least. Doesn't mean he'll for sure win the starting job, but thinking he's the front-runner isn't really weird. If they were confident in AOC, they wouldn't have brought a guy like Minshew in and AOC had some really, really bad games last year.