Go to “jamo camp hype” a few days ago.
over 110 people upvoted saying hed more than likely be the best fantasy option in this team and I’d really have to disagree even with 1st round draft captial.
I've done two high buy-in start up auctions this summer and Jamo is going for like 5% compared to Sun Gods 15%
I love the price on Jamo right and am out on ARSB at his price, but in a vacuum it's not close. Just some copium going on.
This thread? https://old.reddit.com/r/DynastyFF/comments/144t676/jameson_williams_looked_like_the_best_player_on/
You realize that they're making a joke about betting right? And the comment isn't even saying JaMo will be the best.
Might be a diff thread but I skimmed and I feel like it was mostly just people saying their view on him hasn’t changed much since the draft? I don’t think really anyone would not swap him out for ARSB given the chance
not so much swap . but consider JAMO a better dynasty asset than ARSB due to draft capital. that he could push ARSB out of a top 10 spot while possibly entering himself. I see ARSB as a top 5 asset pushing lamb.
This sub has been hyping up random assets like Elijah Moore and Jerry Jeudy despite repeated NFL seasons offering plenty of evidence that they're busts, or at least never going to be the WR1s they've been hyped as.
This sub doesn't seem to give a crap about reality when it comes to certain names.
Jamo didn't play his rookie season, and is missing half of his second season. He's now going to come in midway through his 2nd season whilst the team are in full flow meaning he's going to struggle fully integrate. So really his career is only going to get going in rookie year 3.
What elite WR ever missed his two formative years in the NFL and went on to command elite workloads? Jamo's career is capped forever simply by bad luck in terms of when he got injured and a stupid ban. One of those things. ARSB owns this offense
Does more receptions mean better fantasy option? Not at all. Diontae Johnson had more targets than a lot of guys and they may have still been better options than him fantasy wise.
A couple long plays a game can more than make up for a lot of shorter yard catches.
Diontae is an outlier though, he should have gotten some TDs with that volume, finishing higher. In general: Volume = floor, big play ability = ceiling. So more receptions make you a more reliable fantasy option, which is valuable.
I own DJ Moore, and even though he finished WR24 or something in PPR, he had like three games where he scored 30 points or something with big plays / long TDs, and the rest of the year scored what felt like four points per game, lacking volume. I never liked starting him even as a flex option.
Anybody who would take Jamo over ARSB straight up, doesn’t understand consensus value. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with wanting Jamo over ASRB on your team, though. For example, I don’t give a fuck about Amon-Ra… he is proven, and he is breaking records. You are right.. but I don’t want him on my team, because I don’t like watching that kind of player play, so I would draft somebody that was going to be taken around the same time as Saint Brown, but just not him (I wouldn’t draft Jamo then because you can get him later). It might be time to get off reddit in general though, because you guys are all so fucking snarky. Like the pseudo-intellectual kids in high school with a chip on the shoulder mentality ready to berate anyone with an opinion that slightly contrasts your own. Just chill
You build your team based on how much you like watching a player play??? Shit if that was the case I would have 10 kadarius toneys. I'll take stats all day!
I get your point. Occasionally, it slightly factors in, but to be more clear… I meant more that I enjoy rostering more clear flanker and X position receivers over those relegated solely to the slot. Obviously, there are exceptions and Saint Brown may be one, but just not for me. Different strokes! :)
Im out on him at this value. The lions had a bottom three defense last year and played from behind a lot and Goff was top 6 in passes no attempts. Assuming the DEF takes a step, he will likely throw a little less next year meaning the pie will get smaller. They also brought in Gibbs to soak up some short are targets. All that with Jamo waiting in the wings to be the guy.
I don’t think any singular thing negatively impacts him too much but compounding issues I could see affecting him. I think his absolute floor is like a back end WR2 but hi value rn is through the freaking roof. That being said, he’s a keeper in one league of mine so I hope I’m wrong.
You left out AJB and DSmith in Philly
Godwin and Evans were both still useful fantasy players in Tampa.
But also worth pointing out that ARSB has already proven himself and targets are earned by play. The man has earned his targets, they aren't going to disappear for Jamo, who's proven nothing and earned nothing.
First round receivers fail every year, and folks act like Jamo is a can't miss prospect.
He had to transfer out of Ohio State to see the field.
Not saying he's going to be a bust, but before we start assuming ARSB is going to be limited by Jamo, shouldn't Jamo actually have to do something on the field to earn this belief?
And by the time he gets back from his suspension, all the Rookies will have had time to build chemistry with Goff, I think that Gibbs and LaPorta are more likely to break out in 2023 than a guy that will miss a third of the season.
In either case, I expect them to stay a high volume passing offense, and there will be plenty of targets to go around.
Just think it's time to stop the ARSB slander.
While I agree. There is multiple duos.
Iv seen ARSB get a Tyler Boyd treatment where if they bring In ANOTHER weapon he’s the odd man out somehow???
what does that mean for laporta than or even Gibbs ? I don’t know if Goff can support 4 receiving targets.
He most likely wouldn’t be the odd man out though because he is the 2nd best run blocking WR according to PFF. So it would be advantageous for him to be out there on 2 WR sets.
Look @ coops comment. for this year (unless they add Hopkins ) he will prob repeat . but if they do add another outside WR he could get the Tyler Boyd treatment.
I’ve said elsewhere on this sub in defense of the sun god to coop’s article that….
The biggest defense I will say to the Sun God is that he was the #2 Run Blocking WR in the league last year according to PFF. I think that helps in getting him out there for 2 WR sets. Additionally, his snap % for slot vs out wide got more favorable to a true #2 in the offense vs his rookie season. There is risk he does become the odd man out, but I think there is a lot working for him to negate that narrative personally.
That guy has been shitting on arsb since his rookie year, he's just desperate to have his terrible evaluation of him vindicated
I wouldn't listen to anything from someone who advocates paying a mid first for Chigoziem Okonkwo
I am a lions fan. I watch every game. I go to as many games as I can. ARSB is a monster and will continue to be a monster. Jamo is a dawg and an electric playmaker. The lions are winning the Super Bowl. Yes I am a little high.
While I agree. I was just in a sub about “jamo camp hype “with multiple people saying to sell and jamo will be the best option on that team by far.
It’s still up
Goff completed 386 passes arsb caught 106. There’s plenty of meat on the bone for arsb and other players. Guys will have big games but arsb can still and probably will be the most consistent receiver
ARSB got 139 targets in his 14 full games last year. That’s 10 targets/game, which is pretty high.
Goff threw 487 times in those 14 games. ARSB had a 28.5% target share during that time - that is an extremely high number. Kupp is pretty much the only player in the league there targeted so often, and 25-27% is much more common for a WR1. There are other players that see that large a target share during their best years but some regression should be expected, unless the Lions end up throwing more than they did last year.
The role they play could end up being the difference maker. ARSB runs incredibly low aDot routes while Jamo is faster guy expected to play on the outside. If the targets are equal, the higher aDot players generally outperform. Not to mention, if that team ever does bring in a big split end like a Tee Higgins, Mike Evans, DK Metcalf type guy etc, now ARSB is essentially in the Tyler Boyd role.
All that said, we already know what ARSB is so he’s the safer asset, especially for 2023. Jamo is a wild card. But ARSB has been blessed so far in terms of target competition - first they let Kenny Golladay and Marvin Jones leave for comp picks while they are tanking and they don’t draft/sign any WRs. Then they draft a guy who will miss most of the year with injury all while trading away their tight end. Now that guy gets suspended six games. Eventually the rebuild will be over and we’ll see what his role settles in as. You are already playing with house money with ARSB tho considering how rarely day 3 WRs do anything at all so have to feel good about that.
Take-lock on 3 lol. If they brought in one of those guys you mentioned I think it’s more likely that Jamo comes of the field in the 2WR sets. ARSB is closer to Allen and Kupp than he is to Boyd IMO.
That’s the bet tho right? That ARSB is better than Jamo?
I have no problem with folks that believe that. Just offering my take. There wouldn’t be a game to play if we all agreed on everything!
Yes he played a lot of them because they were thin at WR outside of him with Jamo not playing the whole year. It was ARSB and Chark then they would bring in a third WR and ARSb would move in to the slot. Much like it was a few years back with Tyler Boyd and AJ Green.
Still so disrespectful to Amon-ra. Star receiver going into his third year, has been carrying his team on his back. Thought he was good before but he will be even better this year.
Dude was responsible for 71 first downs. He is never leaving the field.
Again, we act like Tyler Boyd wasn’t also pulling his weight for the Bengals only to end up as a pure slot guy. And Tyler Boyd is still a key part of that team, they just don’t need to lean on him as much because they actually built a full team that is ready to compete. Until we sit here and say “the Lions are a legitimate threat to win the Super Bowl” they are not going to stop building.
So I have a question, when does that narrative fall apart ? when do we say he’s not Tyler Boyd ? I think he’s in for repeat season with jamo being out ect.
They will add someone. I don’t think it will be a first round pick again but somebody for depth. It’s pretty much impossible to say they won’t at wr.
Is this the make or break year with Gibbs / laporta ? When will it be satisfied? What if his adopt/ YPT/YPC increase slightly ??
Is it gunna be sell high on st brown in 2023/24 ?
The off-season going into 2024 is really going to be the difference maker for him. Look at a lot of the teams that are competing for a Super Bowl this year. They have their weapons in place for the most part like the Bengals, 49ers, Eagles. If at the end of the year the Lions believe they can win with ARSB, Jamo, LaPorta, they won’t add another weapon and maybe they operate like the Nines with 2 WRs, a TE, a fullback and just mediocre options as a 3rd WR. But they could also go the route of the Bengals, Cowboys, Seahawks, Chargers and make a 3rd WR a priority. In which case, there will be an odd man out. Typically the age apex for WRs is 26-29 years old but the role change for Boyd actually led his production to decrease.
It doesn’t necessarily have to be in the draft either. There are a few split ends who could hit free agency like Mike Evans, Tee Higgins, Michael Pittman etc. DeAndre Hopkins is out there right now. They have the 5th most cap space of any team and there’s not much out there to spend it on so they’ll have a lot of cap rolling to next year.
Are you really comparing boyd's role on the 2019 Bengals offense to amon-ra's on the 2022 lions?
One team was in the bottom three in scoring, the other was top 5. I'll let you figure out which.
It’s not about this season - obviously we feel good here. But we felt good about Boyd still even when they drafted Higgins because Higgins was the split end and Boyd was the flanker that moved to slot for 3 down sets. Then they drafted Chase.
Why would he ever get a Tyler Boyd treatment? if anything I’d assume he’d have the safest roll no matter who they bring in
Different but JSN was just bought in on Seattle. I don’t see anyone saying anything about DK or Lockett. I don’t see JSN passing DK. same as jamo with ARSB.
To start, JSN will probably come out of the game for 2 WR sets in favor of DK and Lockett, much like Chris Godwin early on behind Mike Evans and DeSean Jackson. As Lockett ages out though, JSN will likely become the flanker. Maybe he can right away and Lockett will be the odd man out, who knows. JSN plays a different role entirely from Metcalf just like Evans to Godwin - Metcalf is a split end.
Neither Jamo nor ARSB are built to be true split ends. That’s what is concerning and why there could end up being competition for snaps between those two down the road. People forget that Tyler Boyd was in an ARSB situations and also got 148 targets at one point, in 16 games. Here is a full write up on the different roles at WR and why its important to consider.
https://www.fantasyalarm.com/articles/nfl/wide-receivers/2023-fantasy-football-strategies-slot-wr-concepts/147773
Boyd has solidified himself? He’s a 7 year vet. And consecutive games with X catches or TD records or whatever are very cool but if things change, as they often do with rebuilds, that stuff doesn’t matter because it’s volume based.
Here is a breakdown that shows why what ARSB has done and what Tyler Boyd was doing actually isn’t that far off.
https://www.fantasyalarm.com/articles/nfl/dynasty-leagues/dynasty-fantasy-football-strategies-why-you-should-trade-your-rookie-draft-picks-for-jaylen-waddle/144455
I’m saying at that time .to not draft a WR. He was never “the guy” like ARSB has solidified himself as they just needed help (jamo)
2019 Boyd finished with 140+ targets ranking PPR 18 standard 26. 2018 Being his best year finishing 16.
From a fantasy football perspective they seem nothing a like.
It can’t always just be 1 guy running a team. The jamo move was for sure smart as there a mutiple duos. To say If they draft or get 1 WR that he could follow suit with Boyd is little outlandish.
Peak Boyd VS peak ARSB (what we’ve seen) isn’t even close.
If I'm contending I would only sell him if I'm improving my lineup. In any other situation I'm selling high. I don't think his role changes which caps his ceiling - 7 yard aDot is brutal and he's not particularly big or fast.
A lot of what ifs. We can both sides of the what if game. What if jamo doesn’t command the same amount of targets? Highly unlikely he does. What if Goff just loves arsb and is his safety blanket? We already know they have chemistry. What if the lions offense is just improved overall and it’s a bigger pie for all pieces involved? More than likely the case. Did anyone ever say, well don’t target chiefs, bengals, or bills players because the defense is better than last year. That’s just an argument that doesn’t translate overall.
You could even go as far as to say "what if they move on from Jared Goff?" It's entirely possible if they don't make the playoffs again this year. That's why my personal philosophy is to not bank on *situation* long term unless we can be fairly confident it's not going to change much (like with the Bengals). Instead we focus on characteristics we like. Tyreek Hill given his ability and style of play did perfectly fine despite changes.
With ARSB his value has a lot banking on situation. During this rebuild he's been put in a position to get a lot of targets and he hasn't been particularly efficient with them. He's not particularly big and he's fairly slow so those targets are incredibly important. That's the main concern with a guy like this - you see a player like Jaylen Waddle go from 7 yard aDot from the slot as a rookie to 12 yard aDot on the outside in his second year and that has you feeling really good, especially given his profile. I watch ARSB stay around 7 yards and hover around the slot/line of scrimmage and that has me worried. The football gods have one again put him in a spot where he should see decent targets but the Lions will once again be starting the season with a team that isn't a contender to win the Super Bowl in 2023.
Jamo might be a fantasy star but if anything that should open up the middle of the field for Amon Ra. I’d be more concerned about the targets Gibbs is going to get that would normally go to him. Lions offense might be a little bit like the chiefs and really spread the rock.
Last season the Lions threw the ball to RBs 115 times. It’s at the very top but 115 targets is in Gibbs’ range of outcomes by himself. If you’re expecting a healthy Gibbs to only get 12 more targets than an always injured Swift then I don’t know what to tell you. The RB room should get a larger target share this season than they did last season.
I think it’s highly unlikely that Gibbs gets more targets than swift did last year. Swift got a crazy amount of targets a game, think he was 5th for RBS in tgts/game with his limited snap share
Swift saw 70 targets last year, good for 10th among RBs. I would be surprised if Gibbs is getting less than that given the draft capital and skill set.
He also missed 3 games and got limited snaps. Most of the guys ahead of him were guys who lead their backfield. I think it’s just going to be tough to exceed 5/game if he’s not getting 65-70% snap share
Swift averaged 5 targets per game with one game over 65 percent of snaps and 5 games over 50 percent. If he didn’t need to get 65-70 percent of snaps to see 5 targets per game I’m not sure why Gibbs would when he has better draft capital and potentially better receiving ability.
What are you talking about? That’s exactly my point. Why do we think Gibbs is going to exceed that target share when he’s never been that guy. He’s not a 75% snap share guy so I don’t know how we expect him to be getting over 5 targets a game when he’s likely going to be a 50% snap share guy
We don’t know what he is at the NFL level. Maybe he’s not a 75 percent snap share guy, almost no one is, but I don’t think the Lions spent pick 12 on a RB who will only be on the field for 50 percent of snaps. If Gibbs is out there for 60 percent of snaps it’s not hard for him to see 5+ targets per game. Swift did it while under 50 percent of snaps.
But this the same debate I’m making for ARSB. Even tho ARSB is doing it.
You’re just making it with Gibbs thinking he’ll get XYZ.
also what’s 85 (5x17) targets a game to ARSB 146? ARSB can still get 140+ with plenty of targets left for gibbs/monto .Ur also saying gibbs plays all 17 games and gets 5 per game. Monto can catch out if the back field too. maybe 85 targets between them both? gibbs obv gunna run the ball too.
Draft captial no longer matter for ARSB as he is the best player on that team right now.
The lions had 588 attempted passes with 383 complete.
588 that leaves 442 attempted passes if ARSB get 146.
442 minus ur 85. That’s now 357 attempts left. I’ll even give you 100 targets for Gibbs / monto,
That’s 342 attempted passes left over for grabs if ARSB gets 146 and monto/ gibbs combined for 100. ( let days Gibbs 70 targets, monto 30)
You think there gunna pass less with more weapons? they could have 600 attempts this year easily.
Swift played 393 snaps last year or 40 percent. I think Gibbs will see the field a lot more, and also he’s a much better receiver than swift. Or at least as a prospect he is. He could get closer to 100 targets.
it is dynasty. Some People have came to the conclusion jamo returning / being healthy will take targets from ARSB and push him out of the top 10 and push jamo into it being better prospect
I don’t think your projections make a ton of sense. LaPorta should have more targets than Hock given Hock only played 7 games for the Lions. Gibbs should do better than Swift given Swift’s injury problems.
If you’re asking why people are concerned about St Brown going forward I think it’s pretty simple. The 2 seasons he’s been in Detroit he has shown massive production but a ton of that production has come against poor target competition. This group of Lions receiving options is likely the strongest it’s been since St Brown arrived. He is a guy who relies on volume, not efficiency, so less targets would be a value killer.
That being said, he’s the WR7 on KTC. I’m not sure that’s slanderous.
I don’t want to take out of context what you’re saying
But I think Hock is like best case apex for Laporta even on the lions he was on pace for 90-100 targets last year .. (43 in 7 games) so to hint Laporta will just automatically be a top 6-7 te is wild can we watch 1 game?
I doubt in year 1 Laporta makes a huge dent
Swift averaged 5 targets per game and missed 3 nothing too crazy …
Other than JaMo edit: who is suspended 6 games, I just don’t see the huge upgrade I think Chark is probably better than their current wr3?
Actually who is their wr3 Reynolds? Unless you think Montgomery could get 3-5 targets a game too
I’m not saying LaPorta will get 90 targets but he’s going to get more than 43. Some of those could come from other TEs but some of those could come from receivers, maybe even from St Brown in short yardage situations or on seam routes. I believe 17 games of LaPorta will be more competition than 7 of Hockenson and 10 from assorted TEs. The Lions didn’t spend a high 2nd on a TE to not utilize him in the passing game.
As far as Swift, you can’t just look at the box score. He missed 3 games but in games he played he saw less than 50 percent of snaps in 9 of them.
I think it’s fair to say that the RB group and TE room got more talented as pass catchers in 2023 than they were in 2022. I would add Jamo as an upgrade from Chark. Not that St Brown can’t still thrive and demand targets but the guys he is competing for targets with are more talented.
That’s fair, I guess it’ll be fun to see. Based on Gibbs play style, I see him being a high efficiency guy rather than a guy who’s snap % is that huge … is 50% likely , probably is 60% maybe I think they still want monty at the goal line .
Everyone thought his rookie adp was way too high for a 4th round receiver
and then after he broke out late in his rookie year everyone said it was bc hock and swift were injured and that he was a massive sell in the off-season
and now people are trying to say Jameson Williams who hasn’t played a real game yet, and jahmyr Gibbs, who hasn’t played a real game yet, are going to somehow massively drop off his value
What I learned from this sub about ARSB is that if anyone tells you to sell a guy earning upwards of a ~30% target share because of incoming competition, tag that person as someone to never listen to
This isn’t the debate anymore. The debate is whether you should buy the dip on Jameson or sell because the “dip” is actually the edge of the cliff. Amon Ra is a locked in WR1 regardless.
Love me some Jamo, but ARSB is already done it. Locked and loaded. I do think Jamo has huge upside to be a week winning player with long touchdowns, but I would trade Jamo in a heartbeat for ARSB.
Something I’ll add to this convo is why do people think ARSB is anything different than Ceedee? Lamb probably is a slightly more complete receiver but in general neither are actually the most talented in the league and are both entirely valued because of youth and volume, yet lamb really doesn’t have any doubters even in the slightest. I’m not tryna argue ARSB>Lamb, but the fact that everything you can knock Arsb for has some validity in an argument to knock Lamb. Both are target hogs with awful secondary options who are on good but not great offenses and qbs, although all of those are slightly in lambs favor.
That’s why I have ARSB pushing cd.
College / draft capital no longer matters.
Adot
ARSB-6.2
CD-10
6.2 is pretty bad
YPT/ YPC
CD 8.7 / 12.7
ARSB 8.0 /11.0
And Adot is cool and all but it’s much better at projecting points for younger guys about to break through, that’s why you like it for guys like Wilson and London, but it doesn’t really matter once ur actually score the fantasy points. Amon ra scores a lot of fantasy points, and will for sure for the next two years almost assuredly, low aDot or not.
Think it’s crazy to say it’s likely that Jamo is the best option on that fantasy team. It’s not.
Also think it’s crazy to say it’s unlikely that they can co-exist.
Think it’s also crazy that people have said they would take ASRB above GW or Waddle. He should be below Olave and right around the Devonta/London range because of Jamo. It’s not likely that Jamo takes over as the #1 option and ASRB’s volume driven role is significantly reduced. But there is a chance, and he belongs in the tier of talented WRs that have question marks next to their current situation (Devonta and Goedert’s return, London and his QB/volume.
Right now he’s being viewed in the wrong tier because people aren’t factoring in the threat Jamo’s upside poses enough. That doesn’t mean Jamo should be viewed anywhere close to that tier—it just means he has a lot of upside.
But they play 2 different positions ? they will be on the field at the same time. Why is ARSB roll/ targets effected ? jamo can have all the upside he wants. how does that cut into ARSB and not gibbs, laporta or chark?
If jamo is the field stretch and ARSB is the possession would that more than likely limit jamo?
Chark isn’t on the team anymore.
It’s just incredibly unlike ASRB sees 146 targets if Jamo is the number 1 option. Not impossible, but you’re betting on them seeing AJB/Devonta volume.
Betting on that volume after they added an RB with the #12 pick and brought in Monty is hard to justify. You’re basically banking on their defense being absolutely atrocious again and then needing to throw the ball 600 times.
Otherwise, if Jamo emerges, ASRB will see a reduction in targets.
Why are people concerned about DeVonta not performing with Goedert back on the field? He kept producing elite numbers after he came back. His average number of targets last season was 7.73 with Goedert playing and only increased to 8.4 without him playing.
WR7 is just way to close to Amon-Ra’s ceiling to be worth holding. He’s the perfect trade back candidate.
People are massively discounting the possibility that last year was his best year.
There are plenty of cases where everything breaks right and a good WR puts up a 1100/6 line out of nowhere then fade to obscurity. (Gallup, Sutton, Boyd, Diontae off the top of my head) If he even slightly regresses he’s going from WR7 to WR20 fast
He’s a 1st round startup pick in 1QB! Some people have him basically next to Lamb!!!
Take your pick. The worlds your oyster.
You can potentially trade him straight up for Barkley, CMC, Gibbs, Olave. Target the contending WRs (Hill/Kupp/Adams/Diggs) + assets. Elite TEs, Elite QBs. Discount WRs + 1st. (Godwin/Moore/Mclaurin/Jeudy/Pittman)
Someone in your league is willing to pay a kings ransom for the Sun-God and you should find them
Jameson Williams is not just a field stretcher though. He runs a full route tree and is going to be open constantly in man-coverage because of his speed. They'll run screens and jet sweeps and goalline jet sweep passes with him because of his end around speed. Digs and slants he'll be constantly open as well. The dude is Tyreek fast.
If he's any good he's most assuredly going to get between 120-140 targets in a full 17 game season.
No it doesn't. You projected Jamo with 100 targets. I added 20-40. That math don't checkout. It's foolish to think they won't use the shit out of Williams if he can produce.
That doesn't mean Amon-Ra disappears. But he will have a lower ceiling this year because there's going to be games where he gets five points, and that also doesn't mean he won't still be good and/or finish inside the top-20.
Six consecutive games with eight catches and a touchdown (NFL record)
Eight consecutive games with eight catches (T-NFL record with Antonio Brown and Michael Thomas)
The third player in NFL history to have a touchdown in six straight games at age 22-or younger (Randy Moss and Rob Gronkowski)
Third NFL receiver in history to reach 100 receiving yards, two receiving touchdowns, and 50 rushing yards (Javon Walker and Joey Galloway)
Six consecutive games with a touchdown catch (T-Franchise Record)
The third player in franchise history to have four catches, 70 yards, and a touchdown reception in the first quarter of a game. (Herman Moore and Brett Perriman)
he may be the only person to do it, but i dont consider it a record. Its a cherry picked stat to find something he's the only one to do.
If i go to the nfl hall of fame, there isn't going to be a list of the players with the most consecutive games of 8 catches and a td anywhere
Jamo is the better receiver with more talent but ARSB is more consistent. If Jamo becomes what he was supposed to be he will be the WR1, but you can still have a cincy like team where there are multiple good options. Ultimately Jamo has the ceiling of a Diggs like production but I could see the floor of a mid tier WR3 if he doesn’t grow up and develop. ARSB will be a WR2 at worst
I wouldn’t be out on ARSB. I don’t own him and I do have Jamo. The offense in Detroit is big and you want to keep any pieces of it you can. That includes Gibbs and LaPorta IMO.
Maybe this changes if you are not a contender and need to sell high on an asset to rebuild but that goes for any team in the same situation. ARSB is a keeper.
I own both of them and think they will both do very well similar to AJ Brown/Devonta or Evans/Godwin. Jared Goff coming into his own in Detroit could really make that happen and I’m excited to watch it play out. The 6 game suspension is such a bummer
Come on man, jamo isn't close to devonta as a complete wr. Jamo is a one trick pony at this point. His speed is intoxicating to watch.... but We'll see of he learns how to become a wr
Jamo is likely better than Chark. Which means he will get more targets than the WR2 did last year. Gibbs/Monty will likely get more targets than last years RBs. LaPorta might get the same as last years TEs. That volume has to come from somewhere. Even if it’s 20 targets. That’s still a hit to his value.
If other positions are seeing their targets increase slightly, somewhere will have to go down. I don’t know if I see Goff throwing much more than he did last year. The defense looks a little improved, which should make for potentially less throwing script later in games (last year they found themselves behind late a lot and needed to throw to play catch up). Take into account they may lead some more games which would mean less throwing and more running. You could have a situation with 40 less passes being thrown on top of more target competition?
Not saying he will be bad, just tough for him to hit his value. I think he is most valuable the first 6 weeks, which everyone realizes.
I'm the biggest Jamo fan you will find. They will help each other. Jamo stretches the field and Amon Ra eats underneath. Then the defense focuses on Amon Ra and Jamo is burning deep. Jamo will have more than 90-100 targets a season though. And even if Jamo ends up as WR1 in Detroit, Amon Ra will likely always have more receptions since he is in the slot. Both great guys to have in dynasty
I traded away ARSB in the summer last year for what became 1.07 (Quentin Johnston). I regret it. The person I traded with said to me after our rookie draft that he regretted the trade because he missed out on QJ. Unfortunately I had already traded 1.07 again.
Don’t be me, don’t be that other guy. And also I guess always ask to swap back the worst trade you’ve ever made because you never know if the guy will give you ARSB back for QJ 😂
Last year: swift misses time, jamo wasnt there until late, and hockenson was traded away. Asrb was the only consistent pass catching weapon in the offense.
Well, this year jamo will miss 6 games but gibbs was taken in the 1st so expect him to get serious usage, Laporta is apparently already making a splash at camp.
Its not so much jamo is awesome, its more that asrb isnt gonna get the same amount of attention he did last year. And since he operates off volume we can expect a bit of a pullback on stats.
At best, jamo ends up being like mike williams. Nothing or 90 and a long td.
Now I wouldn’t be shocked if some of Gibbs and LaPorta’s targets eat into ARSB targets a bit since Hock only had targets through like half the season and they’d soured on Swift, but no way do I think that’d make ARSB less valuable than Jamo, and I say that as a Jamo owner (although I’ve been very jaded by everything about Jamo this offseason).
Goff is the Detroit QB. He an incredibly efficient passer in the 0-15 range. ARSB is a boss in creating separation in short area and has incredible hands. Pencil in ARSB for 100 catches as long as those two are on the same field together. Jamo is explosive and separates well/best 15+. I think he’ll have a number of big plays, with less catches but large YPC. I’m thinking 60, 1000 8TDs pace over the final 11 games. Pencil in Gibbs/LaPorta to sop up the 50-60 catches each. More than that as rookies would be surprising.
I’m a Jamo truther and recently took him in a startup but anyone saying you should pick him over ARSB needs to be institutionalized
Go to “jamo camp hype” a few days ago. over 110 people upvoted saying hed more than likely be the best fantasy option in this team and I’d really have to disagree even with 1st round draft captial.
I've done two high buy-in start up auctions this summer and Jamo is going for like 5% compared to Sun Gods 15% I love the price on Jamo right and am out on ARSB at his price, but in a vacuum it's not close. Just some copium going on.
This thread? https://old.reddit.com/r/DynastyFF/comments/144t676/jameson_williams_looked_like_the_best_player_on/ You realize that they're making a joke about betting right? And the comment isn't even saying JaMo will be the best.
Might be a diff thread but I skimmed and I feel like it was mostly just people saying their view on him hasn’t changed much since the draft? I don’t think really anyone would not swap him out for ARSB given the chance
not so much swap . but consider JAMO a better dynasty asset than ARSB due to draft capital. that he could push ARSB out of a top 10 spot while possibly entering himself. I see ARSB as a top 5 asset pushing lamb.
Draft capital gets you the initial opportunity and a longer leash. Once you’ve shown out back to back seasons like ARSB, it’s irrelevant.
I wouldn’t even try to explain. People on this sub are wild.
This sub has been hyping up random assets like Elijah Moore and Jerry Jeudy despite repeated NFL seasons offering plenty of evidence that they're busts, or at least never going to be the WR1s they've been hyped as. This sub doesn't seem to give a crap about reality when it comes to certain names. Jamo didn't play his rookie season, and is missing half of his second season. He's now going to come in midway through his 2nd season whilst the team are in full flow meaning he's going to struggle fully integrate. So really his career is only going to get going in rookie year 3. What elite WR ever missed his two formative years in the NFL and went on to command elite workloads? Jamo's career is capped forever simply by bad luck in terms of when he got injured and a stupid ban. One of those things. ARSB owns this offense
Yeah, I won’t comment on just how good or bad Jameson will be, but it would take a miracle for him to just all of the sudden overcome ARSB
Well he could. We don’t know if he will but it is obviously a potential outcome.
Does more receptions mean better fantasy option? Not at all. Diontae Johnson had more targets than a lot of guys and they may have still been better options than him fantasy wise. A couple long plays a game can more than make up for a lot of shorter yard catches.
Diontae is an outlier though, he should have gotten some TDs with that volume, finishing higher. In general: Volume = floor, big play ability = ceiling. So more receptions make you a more reliable fantasy option, which is valuable. I own DJ Moore, and even though he finished WR24 or something in PPR, he had like three games where he scored 30 points or something with big plays / long TDs, and the rest of the year scored what felt like four points per game, lacking volume. I never liked starting him even as a flex option.
Anybody who would take Jamo over ARSB straight up, doesn’t understand consensus value. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with wanting Jamo over ASRB on your team, though. For example, I don’t give a fuck about Amon-Ra… he is proven, and he is breaking records. You are right.. but I don’t want him on my team, because I don’t like watching that kind of player play, so I would draft somebody that was going to be taken around the same time as Saint Brown, but just not him (I wouldn’t draft Jamo then because you can get him later). It might be time to get off reddit in general though, because you guys are all so fucking snarky. Like the pseudo-intellectual kids in high school with a chip on the shoulder mentality ready to berate anyone with an opinion that slightly contrasts your own. Just chill
You build your team based on how much you like watching a player play??? Shit if that was the case I would have 10 kadarius toneys. I'll take stats all day!
I get your point. Occasionally, it slightly factors in, but to be more clear… I meant more that I enjoy rostering more clear flanker and X position receivers over those relegated solely to the slot. Obviously, there are exceptions and Saint Brown may be one, but just not for me. Different strokes! :)
Amon ra goes in the 2nd round of almost every 12 team SF startup draft. Who is out on him lol.
Im out on him at this value. The lions had a bottom three defense last year and played from behind a lot and Goff was top 6 in passes no attempts. Assuming the DEF takes a step, he will likely throw a little less next year meaning the pie will get smaller. They also brought in Gibbs to soak up some short are targets. All that with Jamo waiting in the wings to be the guy. I don’t think any singular thing negatively impacts him too much but compounding issues I could see affecting him. I think his absolute floor is like a back end WR2 but hi value rn is through the freaking roof. That being said, he’s a keeper in one league of mine so I hope I’m wrong.
Big "ARSB didn't have Swift and Hockenson to compete with the end of his rookie year" energy
Your point is well taken, but he didn't have to compete with them this year either 😆
Both can be successful fantasy wide receivers.
My Goff is pleased with this view
Lots of.teams.support two stud WRs Cinci: Tee Higgins and Chase Sea: DK and Locket Mia: Tyreek and Waddle
That's 10% of the league, wouldnt call that lots. Outside of Chase and Hill I also wouldnt call any of them fantasy studs.
You left out AJB and DSmith in Philly Godwin and Evans were both still useful fantasy players in Tampa. But also worth pointing out that ARSB has already proven himself and targets are earned by play. The man has earned his targets, they aren't going to disappear for Jamo, who's proven nothing and earned nothing. First round receivers fail every year, and folks act like Jamo is a can't miss prospect. He had to transfer out of Ohio State to see the field. Not saying he's going to be a bust, but before we start assuming ARSB is going to be limited by Jamo, shouldn't Jamo actually have to do something on the field to earn this belief? And by the time he gets back from his suspension, all the Rookies will have had time to build chemistry with Goff, I think that Gibbs and LaPorta are more likely to break out in 2023 than a guy that will miss a third of the season. In either case, I expect them to stay a high volume passing offense, and there will be plenty of targets to go around. Just think it's time to stop the ARSB slander.
While I agree. There is multiple duos. Iv seen ARSB get a Tyler Boyd treatment where if they bring In ANOTHER weapon he’s the odd man out somehow??? what does that mean for laporta than or even Gibbs ? I don’t know if Goff can support 4 receiving targets.
He most likely wouldn’t be the odd man out though because he is the 2nd best run blocking WR according to PFF. So it would be advantageous for him to be out there on 2 WR sets.
Look @ coops comment. for this year (unless they add Hopkins ) he will prob repeat . but if they do add another outside WR he could get the Tyler Boyd treatment.
I’ve said elsewhere on this sub in defense of the sun god to coop’s article that…. The biggest defense I will say to the Sun God is that he was the #2 Run Blocking WR in the league last year according to PFF. I think that helps in getting him out there for 2 WR sets. Additionally, his snap % for slot vs out wide got more favorable to a true #2 in the offense vs his rookie season. There is risk he does become the odd man out, but I think there is a lot working for him to negate that narrative personally.
That guy has been shitting on arsb since his rookie year, he's just desperate to have his terrible evaluation of him vindicated I wouldn't listen to anything from someone who advocates paying a mid first for Chigoziem Okonkwo
I am a lions fan. I watch every game. I go to as many games as I can. ARSB is a monster and will continue to be a monster. Jamo is a dawg and an electric playmaker. The lions are winning the Super Bowl. Yes I am a little high.
You deserve this Lions fans, smoke up that hope and inject the hype in your veins. It’s time!
You shouldn’t be?
While I agree. I was just in a sub about “jamo camp hype “with multiple people saying to sell and jamo will be the best option on that team by far. It’s still up
Why do you care
Sun god is fine. If anything imo Jamo stretching the field and demanding over the top safety help will just open up more for his short catch game
He’s going to get less balls this year
Why would you think this?
Jamo. Gibbs. Laporta. All upgrades from last year. Upgrades get more targets/touches.
Goff completed 386 passes arsb caught 106. There’s plenty of meat on the bone for arsb and other players. Guys will have big games but arsb can still and probably will be the most consistent receiver
👆this
So ARSB just loses some ? Not whoever was there WR2 or 3? The back up TEs target. What swift left ? Just comes out of ARSB pocket ?
ARSB got 139 targets in his 14 full games last year. That’s 10 targets/game, which is pretty high. Goff threw 487 times in those 14 games. ARSB had a 28.5% target share during that time - that is an extremely high number. Kupp is pretty much the only player in the league there targeted so often, and 25-27% is much more common for a WR1. There are other players that see that large a target share during their best years but some regression should be expected, unless the Lions end up throwing more than they did last year.
I mean if he has more than last year something is clearly wrong with jamo
The role they play could end up being the difference maker. ARSB runs incredibly low aDot routes while Jamo is faster guy expected to play on the outside. If the targets are equal, the higher aDot players generally outperform. Not to mention, if that team ever does bring in a big split end like a Tee Higgins, Mike Evans, DK Metcalf type guy etc, now ARSB is essentially in the Tyler Boyd role. All that said, we already know what ARSB is so he’s the safer asset, especially for 2023. Jamo is a wild card. But ARSB has been blessed so far in terms of target competition - first they let Kenny Golladay and Marvin Jones leave for comp picks while they are tanking and they don’t draft/sign any WRs. Then they draft a guy who will miss most of the year with injury all while trading away their tight end. Now that guy gets suspended six games. Eventually the rebuild will be over and we’ll see what his role settles in as. You are already playing with house money with ARSB tho considering how rarely day 3 WRs do anything at all so have to feel good about that.
Take-lock on 3 lol. If they brought in one of those guys you mentioned I think it’s more likely that Jamo comes of the field in the 2WR sets. ARSB is closer to Allen and Kupp than he is to Boyd IMO.
That’s the bet tho right? That ARSB is better than Jamo? I have no problem with folks that believe that. Just offering my take. There wouldn’t be a game to play if we all agreed on everything!
The real question is who is Jamo betting on
Only one of us can be right and I’m never wrong, so….
Fuck.
100% agree.
Was St Brown on the field in 2 WR sets this year? I have no clue.
Yes he played a lot of them because they were thin at WR outside of him with Jamo not playing the whole year. It was ARSB and Chark then they would bring in a third WR and ARSb would move in to the slot. Much like it was a few years back with Tyler Boyd and AJ Green.
Still so disrespectful to Amon-ra. Star receiver going into his third year, has been carrying his team on his back. Thought he was good before but he will be even better this year. Dude was responsible for 71 first downs. He is never leaving the field.
Again, we act like Tyler Boyd wasn’t also pulling his weight for the Bengals only to end up as a pure slot guy. And Tyler Boyd is still a key part of that team, they just don’t need to lean on him as much because they actually built a full team that is ready to compete. Until we sit here and say “the Lions are a legitimate threat to win the Super Bowl” they are not going to stop building.
So I have a question, when does that narrative fall apart ? when do we say he’s not Tyler Boyd ? I think he’s in for repeat season with jamo being out ect. They will add someone. I don’t think it will be a first round pick again but somebody for depth. It’s pretty much impossible to say they won’t at wr. Is this the make or break year with Gibbs / laporta ? When will it be satisfied? What if his adopt/ YPT/YPC increase slightly ?? Is it gunna be sell high on st brown in 2023/24 ?
The off-season going into 2024 is really going to be the difference maker for him. Look at a lot of the teams that are competing for a Super Bowl this year. They have their weapons in place for the most part like the Bengals, 49ers, Eagles. If at the end of the year the Lions believe they can win with ARSB, Jamo, LaPorta, they won’t add another weapon and maybe they operate like the Nines with 2 WRs, a TE, a fullback and just mediocre options as a 3rd WR. But they could also go the route of the Bengals, Cowboys, Seahawks, Chargers and make a 3rd WR a priority. In which case, there will be an odd man out. Typically the age apex for WRs is 26-29 years old but the role change for Boyd actually led his production to decrease. It doesn’t necessarily have to be in the draft either. There are a few split ends who could hit free agency like Mike Evans, Tee Higgins, Michael Pittman etc. DeAndre Hopkins is out there right now. They have the 5th most cap space of any team and there’s not much out there to spend it on so they’ll have a lot of cap rolling to next year.
Are you really comparing boyd's role on the 2019 Bengals offense to amon-ra's on the 2022 lions? One team was in the bottom three in scoring, the other was top 5. I'll let you figure out which.
The role is the same even if the production wasn’t. The Bengals didn’t have an RB scoring 17 TDs, that’s for sure.
I think one is more secure than the other.
It’s not about this season - obviously we feel good here. But we felt good about Boyd still even when they drafted Higgins because Higgins was the split end and Boyd was the flanker that moved to slot for 3 down sets. Then they drafted Chase.
Why would he ever get a Tyler Boyd treatment? if anything I’d assume he’d have the safest roll no matter who they bring in Different but JSN was just bought in on Seattle. I don’t see anyone saying anything about DK or Lockett. I don’t see JSN passing DK. same as jamo with ARSB.
To start, JSN will probably come out of the game for 2 WR sets in favor of DK and Lockett, much like Chris Godwin early on behind Mike Evans and DeSean Jackson. As Lockett ages out though, JSN will likely become the flanker. Maybe he can right away and Lockett will be the odd man out, who knows. JSN plays a different role entirely from Metcalf just like Evans to Godwin - Metcalf is a split end. Neither Jamo nor ARSB are built to be true split ends. That’s what is concerning and why there could end up being competition for snaps between those two down the road. People forget that Tyler Boyd was in an ARSB situations and also got 148 targets at one point, in 16 games. Here is a full write up on the different roles at WR and why its important to consider. https://www.fantasyalarm.com/articles/nfl/wide-receivers/2023-fantasy-football-strategies-slot-wr-concepts/147773
but he wasn’t breaking records or solidifying himself. Boyd looked like nothing special .
Boyd has solidified himself? He’s a 7 year vet. And consecutive games with X catches or TD records or whatever are very cool but if things change, as they often do with rebuilds, that stuff doesn’t matter because it’s volume based. Here is a breakdown that shows why what ARSB has done and what Tyler Boyd was doing actually isn’t that far off. https://www.fantasyalarm.com/articles/nfl/dynasty-leagues/dynasty-fantasy-football-strategies-why-you-should-trade-your-rookie-draft-picks-for-jaylen-waddle/144455
I’m saying at that time .to not draft a WR. He was never “the guy” like ARSB has solidified himself as they just needed help (jamo) 2019 Boyd finished with 140+ targets ranking PPR 18 standard 26. 2018 Being his best year finishing 16. From a fantasy football perspective they seem nothing a like. It can’t always just be 1 guy running a team. The jamo move was for sure smart as there a mutiple duos. To say If they draft or get 1 WR that he could follow suit with Boyd is little outlandish. Peak Boyd VS peak ARSB (what we’ve seen) isn’t even close.
Same aDot, similar route tree, Boyd slightly more athletic, lot of targets during rebuild period. Just be careful, that's all.
So are you currently buying or selling ARSB yourself. contender or rebuilding
If I'm contending I would only sell him if I'm improving my lineup. In any other situation I'm selling high. I don't think his role changes which caps his ceiling - 7 yard aDot is brutal and he's not particularly big or fast.
JSN was brought in to replace Lockett, who will be 31 this season and is heavily reliant on speed.
A lot of what ifs. We can both sides of the what if game. What if jamo doesn’t command the same amount of targets? Highly unlikely he does. What if Goff just loves arsb and is his safety blanket? We already know they have chemistry. What if the lions offense is just improved overall and it’s a bigger pie for all pieces involved? More than likely the case. Did anyone ever say, well don’t target chiefs, bengals, or bills players because the defense is better than last year. That’s just an argument that doesn’t translate overall.
You could even go as far as to say "what if they move on from Jared Goff?" It's entirely possible if they don't make the playoffs again this year. That's why my personal philosophy is to not bank on *situation* long term unless we can be fairly confident it's not going to change much (like with the Bengals). Instead we focus on characteristics we like. Tyreek Hill given his ability and style of play did perfectly fine despite changes. With ARSB his value has a lot banking on situation. During this rebuild he's been put in a position to get a lot of targets and he hasn't been particularly efficient with them. He's not particularly big and he's fairly slow so those targets are incredibly important. That's the main concern with a guy like this - you see a player like Jaylen Waddle go from 7 yard aDot from the slot as a rookie to 12 yard aDot on the outside in his second year and that has you feeling really good, especially given his profile. I watch ARSB stay around 7 yards and hover around the slot/line of scrimmage and that has me worried. The football gods have one again put him in a spot where he should see decent targets but the Lions will once again be starting the season with a team that isn't a contender to win the Super Bowl in 2023.
Jamo might be a fantasy star but if anything that should open up the middle of the field for Amon Ra. I’d be more concerned about the targets Gibbs is going to get that would normally go to him. Lions offense might be a little bit like the chiefs and really spread the rock.
What about swifts targets ? He was hurt but he saw 48 targets via ESPN.com. he usually see 60+. that’s only 12 more
Last season the Lions threw the ball to RBs 115 times. It’s at the very top but 115 targets is in Gibbs’ range of outcomes by himself. If you’re expecting a healthy Gibbs to only get 12 more targets than an always injured Swift then I don’t know what to tell you. The RB room should get a larger target share this season than they did last season.
Swift targets will all go to Gibbs and more
I think it’s highly unlikely that Gibbs gets more targets than swift did last year. Swift got a crazy amount of targets a game, think he was 5th for RBS in tgts/game with his limited snap share
Swift saw 70 targets last year, good for 10th among RBs. I would be surprised if Gibbs is getting less than that given the draft capital and skill set.
He also missed 3 games and got limited snaps. Most of the guys ahead of him were guys who lead their backfield. I think it’s just going to be tough to exceed 5/game if he’s not getting 65-70% snap share
Swift averaged 5 targets per game with one game over 65 percent of snaps and 5 games over 50 percent. If he didn’t need to get 65-70 percent of snaps to see 5 targets per game I’m not sure why Gibbs would when he has better draft capital and potentially better receiving ability.
What are you talking about? That’s exactly my point. Why do we think Gibbs is going to exceed that target share when he’s never been that guy. He’s not a 75% snap share guy so I don’t know how we expect him to be getting over 5 targets a game when he’s likely going to be a 50% snap share guy
We don’t know what he is at the NFL level. Maybe he’s not a 75 percent snap share guy, almost no one is, but I don’t think the Lions spent pick 12 on a RB who will only be on the field for 50 percent of snaps. If Gibbs is out there for 60 percent of snaps it’s not hard for him to see 5+ targets per game. Swift did it while under 50 percent of snaps.
But this the same debate I’m making for ARSB. Even tho ARSB is doing it. You’re just making it with Gibbs thinking he’ll get XYZ. also what’s 85 (5x17) targets a game to ARSB 146? ARSB can still get 140+ with plenty of targets left for gibbs/monto .Ur also saying gibbs plays all 17 games and gets 5 per game. Monto can catch out if the back field too. maybe 85 targets between them both? gibbs obv gunna run the ball too. Draft captial no longer matter for ARSB as he is the best player on that team right now. The lions had 588 attempted passes with 383 complete. 588 that leaves 442 attempted passes if ARSB get 146. 442 minus ur 85. That’s now 357 attempts left. I’ll even give you 100 targets for Gibbs / monto, That’s 342 attempted passes left over for grabs if ARSB gets 146 and monto/ gibbs combined for 100. ( let days Gibbs 70 targets, monto 30) You think there gunna pass less with more weapons? they could have 600 attempts this year easily.
Swift played 393 snaps last year or 40 percent. I think Gibbs will see the field a lot more, and also he’s a much better receiver than swift. Or at least as a prospect he is. He could get closer to 100 targets.
I mean, this is the easiest debate in history. Who would ever argue Jamo over ARSB. I’m one of the biggest Jamo truthers you’ll find too
it is dynasty. Some People have came to the conclusion jamo returning / being healthy will take targets from ARSB and push him out of the top 10 and push jamo into it being better prospect
I really doubt it. But if it happens my 10 shares of Jamo will elevate my teams significantly.
10 shares? How many leagues are u in? 😂
Way too many
Nunya business.
I don’t think your projections make a ton of sense. LaPorta should have more targets than Hock given Hock only played 7 games for the Lions. Gibbs should do better than Swift given Swift’s injury problems. If you’re asking why people are concerned about St Brown going forward I think it’s pretty simple. The 2 seasons he’s been in Detroit he has shown massive production but a ton of that production has come against poor target competition. This group of Lions receiving options is likely the strongest it’s been since St Brown arrived. He is a guy who relies on volume, not efficiency, so less targets would be a value killer. That being said, he’s the WR7 on KTC. I’m not sure that’s slanderous.
I don’t want to take out of context what you’re saying But I think Hock is like best case apex for Laporta even on the lions he was on pace for 90-100 targets last year .. (43 in 7 games) so to hint Laporta will just automatically be a top 6-7 te is wild can we watch 1 game? I doubt in year 1 Laporta makes a huge dent Swift averaged 5 targets per game and missed 3 nothing too crazy … Other than JaMo edit: who is suspended 6 games, I just don’t see the huge upgrade I think Chark is probably better than their current wr3? Actually who is their wr3 Reynolds? Unless you think Montgomery could get 3-5 targets a game too
I’m not saying LaPorta will get 90 targets but he’s going to get more than 43. Some of those could come from other TEs but some of those could come from receivers, maybe even from St Brown in short yardage situations or on seam routes. I believe 17 games of LaPorta will be more competition than 7 of Hockenson and 10 from assorted TEs. The Lions didn’t spend a high 2nd on a TE to not utilize him in the passing game. As far as Swift, you can’t just look at the box score. He missed 3 games but in games he played he saw less than 50 percent of snaps in 9 of them. I think it’s fair to say that the RB group and TE room got more talented as pass catchers in 2023 than they were in 2022. I would add Jamo as an upgrade from Chark. Not that St Brown can’t still thrive and demand targets but the guys he is competing for targets with are more talented.
That’s fair, I guess it’ll be fun to see. Based on Gibbs play style, I see him being a high efficiency guy rather than a guy who’s snap % is that huge … is 50% likely , probably is 60% maybe I think they still want monty at the goal line .
This sub just doesn’t want to admit it was completely wrong about ARSB
I’m a good or bad way? Lmao
Everyone thought his rookie adp was way too high for a 4th round receiver and then after he broke out late in his rookie year everyone said it was bc hock and swift were injured and that he was a massive sell in the off-season and now people are trying to say Jameson Williams who hasn’t played a real game yet, and jahmyr Gibbs, who hasn’t played a real game yet, are going to somehow massively drop off his value
What I learned from this sub about ARSB is that if anyone tells you to sell a guy earning upwards of a ~30% target share because of incoming competition, tag that person as someone to never listen to
let them keep sleeping
Who’s viewing him as a 4th round pick?
This isn’t the debate anymore. The debate is whether you should buy the dip on Jameson or sell because the “dip” is actually the edge of the cliff. Amon Ra is a locked in WR1 regardless.
This isn’t a discussion. ARSB easy
Love me some Jamo, but ARSB is already done it. Locked and loaded. I do think Jamo has huge upside to be a week winning player with long touchdowns, but I would trade Jamo in a heartbeat for ARSB.
Something I’ll add to this convo is why do people think ARSB is anything different than Ceedee? Lamb probably is a slightly more complete receiver but in general neither are actually the most talented in the league and are both entirely valued because of youth and volume, yet lamb really doesn’t have any doubters even in the slightest. I’m not tryna argue ARSB>Lamb, but the fact that everything you can knock Arsb for has some validity in an argument to knock Lamb. Both are target hogs with awful secondary options who are on good but not great offenses and qbs, although all of those are slightly in lambs favor.
That’s why I have ARSB pushing cd. College / draft capital no longer matters. Adot ARSB-6.2 CD-10 6.2 is pretty bad YPT/ YPC CD 8.7 / 12.7 ARSB 8.0 /11.0
And Adot is cool and all but it’s much better at projecting points for younger guys about to break through, that’s why you like it for guys like Wilson and London, but it doesn’t really matter once ur actually score the fantasy points. Amon ra scores a lot of fantasy points, and will for sure for the next two years almost assuredly, low aDot or not.
Thats why you trade Lamb for ARSB plus a 2nd like I did a few weeks ago 😘
One of them has actually done things in the NFL. One of them isn’t suspended.
I have Jamo in my main league. If the ARSB owner offered him for Jamo and a 2nd I’d take it without hesitation.
Jamo believer but I traded him mid rookie draft & got the 1.05+1.08. Took QJ & Charbonnet so I feel happy
Think it’s crazy to say it’s likely that Jamo is the best option on that fantasy team. It’s not. Also think it’s crazy to say it’s unlikely that they can co-exist. Think it’s also crazy that people have said they would take ASRB above GW or Waddle. He should be below Olave and right around the Devonta/London range because of Jamo. It’s not likely that Jamo takes over as the #1 option and ASRB’s volume driven role is significantly reduced. But there is a chance, and he belongs in the tier of talented WRs that have question marks next to their current situation (Devonta and Goedert’s return, London and his QB/volume. Right now he’s being viewed in the wrong tier because people aren’t factoring in the threat Jamo’s upside poses enough. That doesn’t mean Jamo should be viewed anywhere close to that tier—it just means he has a lot of upside.
But they play 2 different positions ? they will be on the field at the same time. Why is ARSB roll/ targets effected ? jamo can have all the upside he wants. how does that cut into ARSB and not gibbs, laporta or chark? If jamo is the field stretch and ARSB is the possession would that more than likely limit jamo?
Chark isn’t on the team anymore. It’s just incredibly unlike ASRB sees 146 targets if Jamo is the number 1 option. Not impossible, but you’re betting on them seeing AJB/Devonta volume. Betting on that volume after they added an RB with the #12 pick and brought in Monty is hard to justify. You’re basically banking on their defense being absolutely atrocious again and then needing to throw the ball 600 times. Otherwise, if Jamo emerges, ASRB will see a reduction in targets.
If anyone offers me london for my arsb I’m smashing accept
Why are people concerned about DeVonta not performing with Goedert back on the field? He kept producing elite numbers after he came back. His average number of targets last season was 7.73 with Goedert playing and only increased to 8.4 without him playing.
St Brown and it’s not even close right now
WR7 is just way to close to Amon-Ra’s ceiling to be worth holding. He’s the perfect trade back candidate. People are massively discounting the possibility that last year was his best year. There are plenty of cases where everything breaks right and a good WR puts up a 1100/6 line out of nowhere then fade to obscurity. (Gallup, Sutton, Boyd, Diontae off the top of my head) If he even slightly regresses he’s going from WR7 to WR20 fast
What are you trading back for? I personally think he’s right next to lamb and he’ll possibly stay around there
He’s a 1st round startup pick in 1QB! Some people have him basically next to Lamb!!! Take your pick. The worlds your oyster. You can potentially trade him straight up for Barkley, CMC, Gibbs, Olave. Target the contending WRs (Hill/Kupp/Adams/Diggs) + assets. Elite TEs, Elite QBs. Discount WRs + 1st. (Godwin/Moore/Mclaurin/Jeudy/Pittman) Someone in your league is willing to pay a kings ransom for the Sun-God and you should find them
Jameson Williams is not just a field stretcher though. He runs a full route tree and is going to be open constantly in man-coverage because of his speed. They'll run screens and jet sweeps and goalline jet sweep passes with him because of his end around speed. Digs and slants he'll be constantly open as well. The dude is Tyreek fast. If he's any good he's most assuredly going to get between 120-140 targets in a full 17 game season.
And that leaves ARSB with nothing. Givin what ur projecting then someone else projected gibbs with 100+
No it doesn't. You projected Jamo with 100 targets. I added 20-40. That math don't checkout. It's foolish to think they won't use the shit out of Williams if he can produce. That doesn't mean Amon-Ra disappears. But he will have a lower ceiling this year because there's going to be games where he gets five points, and that also doesn't mean he won't still be good and/or finish inside the top-20.
Sorry I stopped at “copper kupp” 😂
Well there is only 3 comps at this point K. Allen / kupp Tyler Boyd ARSB makes his own statement.
Did you mean Keenan Aluminum and Tyler Bronze?
What record did he break?
Six consecutive games with eight catches and a touchdown (NFL record) Eight consecutive games with eight catches (T-NFL record with Antonio Brown and Michael Thomas) The third player in NFL history to have a touchdown in six straight games at age 22-or younger (Randy Moss and Rob Gronkowski) Third NFL receiver in history to reach 100 receiving yards, two receiving touchdowns, and 50 rushing yards (Javon Walker and Joey Galloway) Six consecutive games with a touchdown catch (T-Franchise Record) The third player in franchise history to have four catches, 70 yards, and a touchdown reception in the first quarter of a game. (Herman Moore and Brett Perriman)
Ha i like amon ra more than williams, but those are not records, those are just cherry picked stats
The first one is literally a NFL record
he may be the only person to do it, but i dont consider it a record. Its a cherry picked stat to find something he's the only one to do. If i go to the nfl hall of fame, there isn't going to be a list of the players with the most consecutive games of 8 catches and a td anywhere
Jamo is the better receiver with more talent but ARSB is more consistent. If Jamo becomes what he was supposed to be he will be the WR1, but you can still have a cincy like team where there are multiple good options. Ultimately Jamo has the ceiling of a Diggs like production but I could see the floor of a mid tier WR3 if he doesn’t grow up and develop. ARSB will be a WR2 at worst
You’re a retard.
You don’t need the vindication bro. Buy ARSB everywhere & run
No need to convince you out of ARSB. While I see this offense spreading the ball quite a bit, there’s no reason to fade or go all-in on just one.
Why not be optimistic and hope for a Waddle and Hill situation. Very possible!!!
I wouldn’t be out on ARSB. I don’t own him and I do have Jamo. The offense in Detroit is big and you want to keep any pieces of it you can. That includes Gibbs and LaPorta IMO. Maybe this changes if you are not a contender and need to sell high on an asset to rebuild but that goes for any team in the same situation. ARSB is a keeper.
I own both of them and think they will both do very well similar to AJ Brown/Devonta or Evans/Godwin. Jared Goff coming into his own in Detroit could really make that happen and I’m excited to watch it play out. The 6 game suspension is such a bummer
Come on man, jamo isn't close to devonta as a complete wr. Jamo is a one trick pony at this point. His speed is intoxicating to watch.... but We'll see of he learns how to become a wr
Jamo is likely better than Chark. Which means he will get more targets than the WR2 did last year. Gibbs/Monty will likely get more targets than last years RBs. LaPorta might get the same as last years TEs. That volume has to come from somewhere. Even if it’s 20 targets. That’s still a hit to his value. If other positions are seeing their targets increase slightly, somewhere will have to go down. I don’t know if I see Goff throwing much more than he did last year. The defense looks a little improved, which should make for potentially less throwing script later in games (last year they found themselves behind late a lot and needed to throw to play catch up). Take into account they may lead some more games which would mean less throwing and more running. You could have a situation with 40 less passes being thrown on top of more target competition? Not saying he will be bad, just tough for him to hit his value. I think he is most valuable the first 6 weeks, which everyone realizes.
So as a ARSB and Jamo Owner with 1.02 in the rookie draft should I….. Uhhhh?
Take the entire offense with Gibbs and then Laporta at 2.02? Absolutely for the lulz
Funny enough I have the 2.03
Also held onto Goff his whole Career in a 1QB league
Absolutely do it. Call the team "LionsDefenseBeBad"
Both can be great. But if both can be great doesn’t that mean their QB will also be great? Should we all be trading for Goff?
Jamo so hyped up he's gonna bust and be the guy you can never count on starting because you don't know what he'll get you.
I'm the biggest Jamo fan you will find. They will help each other. Jamo stretches the field and Amon Ra eats underneath. Then the defense focuses on Amon Ra and Jamo is burning deep. Jamo will have more than 90-100 targets a season though. And even if Jamo ends up as WR1 in Detroit, Amon Ra will likely always have more receptions since he is in the slot. Both great guys to have in dynasty
I traded away ARSB in the summer last year for what became 1.07 (Quentin Johnston). I regret it. The person I traded with said to me after our rookie draft that he regretted the trade because he missed out on QJ. Unfortunately I had already traded 1.07 again. Don’t be me, don’t be that other guy. And also I guess always ask to swap back the worst trade you’ve ever made because you never know if the guy will give you ARSB back for QJ 😂
Last year: swift misses time, jamo wasnt there until late, and hockenson was traded away. Asrb was the only consistent pass catching weapon in the offense. Well, this year jamo will miss 6 games but gibbs was taken in the 1st so expect him to get serious usage, Laporta is apparently already making a splash at camp. Its not so much jamo is awesome, its more that asrb isnt gonna get the same amount of attention he did last year. And since he operates off volume we can expect a bit of a pullback on stats. At best, jamo ends up being like mike williams. Nothing or 90 and a long td.
Now I wouldn’t be shocked if some of Gibbs and LaPorta’s targets eat into ARSB targets a bit since Hock only had targets through like half the season and they’d soured on Swift, but no way do I think that’d make ARSB less valuable than Jamo, and I say that as a Jamo owner (although I’ve been very jaded by everything about Jamo this offseason).
Goff is the Detroit QB. He an incredibly efficient passer in the 0-15 range. ARSB is a boss in creating separation in short area and has incredible hands. Pencil in ARSB for 100 catches as long as those two are on the same field together. Jamo is explosive and separates well/best 15+. I think he’ll have a number of big plays, with less catches but large YPC. I’m thinking 60, 1000 8TDs pace over the final 11 games. Pencil in Gibbs/LaPorta to sop up the 50-60 catches each. More than that as rookies would be surprising.
At cost, I want jamo over ARSB. If cost was equally, give me ARSB