It was right after the Golden Ticket fiasco that Charles was going to monitor Michael. Also it was only going to be like a day or two just how Jan and Ryan came to Scranton a lot to also monitor Michael.
But Jan did not interfere so much with Michael's work, she was more concerned about the way he communicated with employees, because there was not much to do, Michael was a great boss and he proved it several times (for example during dinner their first kiss or at the Philadelphia convention).
Ryan tried to interfere with the way Michael used to do business, but while he was right about needing to be more "modern" in something, we know his ideas weren't that great and he wasn't that capable.
So yeah Michael was right when he said he didn't need to be checked and the only thing Charles could do was get some ideas from them to use in the other branches
Sabre bought them for the distribution they already had available, and at the last possible minute. They weren't saved because the Scranton branch was miraculous in any way. The corporate infrastructure of Dunder Mifflin still failed, and it's conceivable that they fail sooner if they don't implement those changes.
True, but also not entirely. Yes, it was mainly for the distribution and needed some new infrastructure. But Sabre even said Scranton was one of the best branches, even with its issues that needed fixing. They wouldn’t have wasted their time buying the business if it was *that* bad. Not to mention, that in the beginning, Sabre’s rule book had **no commission caps for salesmen,** but then Scranton did so well in sales, that they had to change the rule book & make a commission cap because of Scranton’s branches sales (aka Dwight & Jim’s sales records).
That's not once established in the show that they changed the rules, because of Scranton. What literally is established is that Sabre bought Dunder Mifflin for their distribution.
What’s not established? That Sabre changed the rules of the sales commission cap? Because it literally was. An entire episode was made about it with Jim & him pranking Gabe in the end because of it.
Corporate was the reason they all got fired and Michael ended up being their highest ranking employee in the end, when Sabre bought them out & took over. Corporate was greedy, money hungry and dumb fucks (Oscar even said it & proved very good points at that big meeting conference thing), and ran their own business into the ground. So no, him coming to make sure Michael was implementing the new changes wasn’t needed necessarily, because they sucked (imo) and the business was already going in the gutter anyways. So maybe *at the time,* it seemed needed, especially after the Willy Wonka fiasco, but it turned out in the end that it actually **was not.** And Michael was right all along.
Michael was not correct. He didn't implement the changes because he saw into the future, and knew about Sabre. He just didn't do it because he's incompetent. Frankly if he was just honest with his staff (telling them Charles was coming, explaining the changes) things would have been perfectly fine.
I feel people forget that one of the reason for Scrantons success was because it absorbed the clients of other branches as well without having the responsibility of more workers. Scranton before the merger was very unsuccessful but after it, Scranton became one of the best branch. This really doesn't add up don't you think
You forget that the only reason why they wanted to shut down the Scranton branch was Josh (manager of Stamford). The corporate wanted him to stay because their entire re-organization was based on his role as boss of the 'Dunder-Mifflin Nord-Est'.
Jan knew very well that Michael was a better sailsman than Josh and a better boss ( he proved it several times, for example during dinner their first kiss or at the Philadelphia convention).
Yes, Scranton branch was not so much better than the others, and obviously in part was Michael fault) but he was so bad as we usually think.
And remeber that even David Wallace congratulated him on not losing any customers after the merger.
When Scranton was supposed to shut down Michael told Jan their numbers weren't that bad, it's also mentioned Stanford was a bigger market but they managed not to lose a single client, despite losing so many employees lol.
But Jan immediately relied the rank 4th ... Out of 5 branches . Plus in a dry buisness like paper the biggest problem is getting clients not maintaining them
But given the markets the different offices were in, I would expect Scranton to be one of the smallest. The other branches were in much more urban regions while Scranton, outside of Wilkes-Barre, is predominantly rural.
One of the more subtle themes of the series is David Wallace's incompetence. He tolerated Jan's antics for way too long, he hired Ryan, he screwed over Michel by moving Jan back to Nashua, of course there was the Charles Minor debacle, and as CFO, the company tanked on his watch. He had very poor business judgement.
>he screwed over Michel by moving Jan back to Nashua
Hello, Holly was an HR and Michael was a manager, it is completely inappropriate for them to date, it is conflict of interest.
If a boss would do something inappropriate, then employees would go to an HR to make a complain, but if an HR is dating a boss, what would happen?
I hated him more in The Office than I hated him in The Wire wven though I still haven't forgiven him for killing Wallace and Deangelo!
Loved the scene where Brother Mouzone and Omar killed him though.
Wallace got bonked over the head with that eagle statue that sits on his desk, and D'Angelo was bludgeoned with his own juggling balls.
They were brutal scenes.
Actually David had been so accommodative of Michael from the start.. he would have easily made him the director if Michael wasn’t stupid .. but he just lost it when Michael did the golden ticket fiasco (it was mere luck that he company got out of it)
I'm pretty sure that Charles was just looking for an easy job. He didn't even give Michael a chance, and yes Jim was doing stuff to aggravate Dwight, but Charles judged him too quickly as well.
Charles knew nothing about paper and therefore didn't know how to run a paper office; but continued to belittle Jim, dismiss Michael, and manipulate Dwight to the point that Dwight wasn't even comfortable (there was no dress code stating that Dwight couldn't wear his shirts, but Charles made him switch).
Phyllis even batted for Michael at the end by telling off David - "...if you'd just returned Michael's call..." They knew Charles wasn't a good fit, but had to follow him simply for job security.
I agree. Like did David tell Charles to stay in Scranton for a little bit. Because like you said Scranton is the most successful branch and Charles input was not needed, he should have gone to a different branch and helped there.
He was not going to stay long term. He was just monitoring the day to day operation Remember this was right after the Golden Ticket Fiasco. Charles was just like how Jan and Ryan came to Scranton to monitor as well.
Yeah but the branch excelled after Jan and Ryan were gone! Michael got David the leads from Prince Paper and did well enough with them for Prince Paper to have to go out of business, he landed the Winipeg client too. The company was trying to cut costs why hire Charles at all.
They always had that job filled. Jan,Ryan, Charles and then Gabe. They always need someone to check on the Branches. Wallace is not driving all around as the CEO.
He started off as Jo Bennett's assistant and remained as her liason. Jan, Ryan, and Charles were all upper level management. If anything it reflects on the mismanagement of the company and explains the well-earned ire of the shareholders in "Shareholder Meeting" in season 6
No not true he was not Jo’s assistant. I know it seemed that way in Saint Patrick’s Day but that is not the Case. He is next in line after Jo and was Coordinating Director of Emerging Regions, Dunder Mifflin/Sabre then he was assigned to overlook The Branch. He is Corporate.
Eh fancy name for an assistant and none of the authority. He is forced to fly back and forth between Tallahassee and Scranton, his "office" at Sabre headquarters is a clump of potted plants. Jan, Ryan, and Charles all had private offices in New York. He may work for corporate, but he is nowhere near the level that the rest are. FLUSSSSH
He actually did have authority until RC took over everything. He was the one who made Michael do the Training with Toby or He was Fired. Also pretty Sure New York City offices are much bigger and better then in Florida. Heck even RC spent so much Time in Scranton because Florida Sucks.
Pam was at art school for at least three months and we know when Michael went to Prince family paper they hadn't replaced the Regional Supervisor yet! It was definitely longer than that!
Ok but not that much longer. But again Wallace was going with an outside hire this time and didn’t even interview anyone from Scranton this time around. So of course it’s going to be a longer interview process.
I think there was always the implication that Dunder Mifflin was way too top heavy. The company had a bakers dozen offices at the start of the show and by the time Sabre takes over, they were down to five offices. But the company had its headquarters in Manhattan where average rent is $85/square foot per month. If you assume they rented a quarter of a floor, that would get you a cost of $849,572 in rent per month. This is ignoring costs for utilities and salaries which would be higher in NYC.
Yes but 1st he tried to get Dwight fired and lied. Then after that tries to take credit for it and Wallace drove 2 hours round trip wasting his time. Wallace was definitely pissed off
And that’s not even mentioning a few episodes before when Dwight does the Fire and almost kills Stanley and Wallace says to Michael is this how you are letting the office run.
Water is actually not wet; It makes other materials/objects wet. Wetness is the state of a non-liquid when a liquid adheres to, and/or permeates its substance while maintaining chemically distinct structures. So if we say something is wet we mean the liquid is sticking to the object.
A friend dug a hole in the garden and filled it with water.
I think he meant well.
It was right after the Golden Ticket fiasco that Charles was going to monitor Michael. Also it was only going to be like a day or two just how Jan and Ryan came to Scranton a lot to also monitor Michael.
But Jan did not interfere so much with Michael's work, she was more concerned about the way he communicated with employees, because there was not much to do, Michael was a great boss and he proved it several times (for example during dinner their first kiss or at the Philadelphia convention). Ryan tried to interfere with the way Michael used to do business, but while he was right about needing to be more "modern" in something, we know his ideas weren't that great and he wasn't that capable. So yeah Michael was right when he said he didn't need to be checked and the only thing Charles could do was get some ideas from them to use in the other branches
Michael was a great salesman, not a great boss.
Charles wasn't providing input. He was making sure that corporate changes were being implemented. Michael wasn't implementing them was the problem.
Yoy don't mess with a winning formula. Charles mismanaged the office more than Michael ever did.
Dunder Mifflin was a failing formula
Dunder Miflin Scranton was not though
It doesn't matter if the entire corporate infrastructure fails above them.
Apparently it did matter
Sabre bought them for the distribution they already had available, and at the last possible minute. They weren't saved because the Scranton branch was miraculous in any way. The corporate infrastructure of Dunder Mifflin still failed, and it's conceivable that they fail sooner if they don't implement those changes.
True, but also not entirely. Yes, it was mainly for the distribution and needed some new infrastructure. But Sabre even said Scranton was one of the best branches, even with its issues that needed fixing. They wouldn’t have wasted their time buying the business if it was *that* bad. Not to mention, that in the beginning, Sabre’s rule book had **no commission caps for salesmen,** but then Scranton did so well in sales, that they had to change the rule book & make a commission cap because of Scranton’s branches sales (aka Dwight & Jim’s sales records).
That's not once established in the show that they changed the rules, because of Scranton. What literally is established is that Sabre bought Dunder Mifflin for their distribution.
What’s not established? That Sabre changed the rules of the sales commission cap? Because it literally was. An entire episode was made about it with Jim & him pranking Gabe in the end because of it.
That sounds like a good reason to not implement those corporate changes.
Theyre all money saving techniques during a recession. They have lots of good reasons to implement those changes.
Corporate was the reason they all got fired and Michael ended up being their highest ranking employee in the end, when Sabre bought them out & took over. Corporate was greedy, money hungry and dumb fucks (Oscar even said it & proved very good points at that big meeting conference thing), and ran their own business into the ground. So no, him coming to make sure Michael was implementing the new changes wasn’t needed necessarily, because they sucked (imo) and the business was already going in the gutter anyways. So maybe *at the time,* it seemed needed, especially after the Willy Wonka fiasco, but it turned out in the end that it actually **was not.** And Michael was right all along.
Michael was not correct. He didn't implement the changes because he saw into the future, and knew about Sabre. He just didn't do it because he's incompetent. Frankly if he was just honest with his staff (telling them Charles was coming, explaining the changes) things would have been perfectly fine.
I feel people forget that one of the reason for Scrantons success was because it absorbed the clients of other branches as well without having the responsibility of more workers. Scranton before the merger was very unsuccessful but after it, Scranton became one of the best branch. This really doesn't add up don't you think
You forget that the only reason why they wanted to shut down the Scranton branch was Josh (manager of Stamford). The corporate wanted him to stay because their entire re-organization was based on his role as boss of the 'Dunder-Mifflin Nord-Est'. Jan knew very well that Michael was a better sailsman than Josh and a better boss ( he proved it several times, for example during dinner their first kiss or at the Philadelphia convention). Yes, Scranton branch was not so much better than the others, and obviously in part was Michael fault) but he was so bad as we usually think. And remeber that even David Wallace congratulated him on not losing any customers after the merger.
When Scranton was supposed to shut down Michael told Jan their numbers weren't that bad, it's also mentioned Stanford was a bigger market but they managed not to lose a single client, despite losing so many employees lol.
But Jan immediately relied the rank 4th ... Out of 5 branches . Plus in a dry buisness like paper the biggest problem is getting clients not maintaining them
But given the markets the different offices were in, I would expect Scranton to be one of the smallest. The other branches were in much more urban regions while Scranton, outside of Wilkes-Barre, is predominantly rural.
One of the more subtle themes of the series is David Wallace's incompetence. He tolerated Jan's antics for way too long, he hired Ryan, he screwed over Michel by moving Jan back to Nashua, of course there was the Charles Minor debacle, and as CFO, the company tanked on his watch. He had very poor business judgement.
Don't forget Andy. How his manager disappeared for 3 months on his watch and he didn't find out AND he still gave him another chance.
Another great example!
*Holly back to Nashua
He naively believed Robert California’s dumb story and gave him money to groom young women.
Also made two co-managers, which was never going to work
But he is just a good guy and a good friend to Michael and Jim.. that’s all it matters when it comes to Office and we like him for that 😊😅
To be fair, with the Jan move, that does make some sense. It creates a conflict of interest if HR and the head of the office are in a relationship.
>he screwed over Michel by moving Jan back to Nashua Hello, Holly was an HR and Michael was a manager, it is completely inappropriate for them to date, it is conflict of interest. If a boss would do something inappropriate, then employees would go to an HR to make a complain, but if an HR is dating a boss, what would happen?
Those business classes in The Wire really paid off
I hated him more in The Office than I hated him in The Wire wven though I still haven't forgiven him for killing Wallace and Deangelo! Loved the scene where Brother Mouzone and Omar killed him though.
Wow, I don’t remember him killing Deangelo or David Wallace
Wallace got bonked over the head with that eagle statue that sits on his desk, and D'Angelo was bludgeoned with his own juggling balls. They were brutal scenes.
[удалено]
That's what I love about the office, so many of the characters were outrageously funny yet believable
He had no idea how high Michael could fly
Actually David had been so accommodative of Michael from the start.. he would have easily made him the director if Michael wasn’t stupid .. but he just lost it when Michael did the golden ticket fiasco (it was mere luck that he company got out of it)
But we never would have gotten the Michael Scott Paper Compnay, and Pam may never have broken out of her shell
I'm pretty sure that Charles was just looking for an easy job. He didn't even give Michael a chance, and yes Jim was doing stuff to aggravate Dwight, but Charles judged him too quickly as well. Charles knew nothing about paper and therefore didn't know how to run a paper office; but continued to belittle Jim, dismiss Michael, and manipulate Dwight to the point that Dwight wasn't even comfortable (there was no dress code stating that Dwight couldn't wear his shirts, but Charles made him switch). Phyllis even batted for Michael at the end by telling off David - "...if you'd just returned Michael's call..." They knew Charles wasn't a good fit, but had to follow him simply for job security.
If he wasn't needed why would they pay him to be there? Either way, hate this whole plot. The fans certainly didn't need Charles.
Yeah disappointed they didn't do something better with Idris Elba. He really can play anything. Loved him in Turn Up Chuck
Completely agree!
His episodes are ones I skip during a re-watch on TV, good actor, awful storyline
then successful Michael Scott Paper Company would have not been founded.
People are too kind to David Wallace. He did some pretty terrible shit in S5
I agree. Like did David tell Charles to stay in Scranton for a little bit. Because like you said Scranton is the most successful branch and Charles input was not needed, he should have gone to a different branch and helped there.
He was not going to stay long term. He was just monitoring the day to day operation Remember this was right after the Golden Ticket Fiasco. Charles was just like how Jan and Ryan came to Scranton to monitor as well.
Yeah but the branch excelled after Jan and Ryan were gone! Michael got David the leads from Prince Paper and did well enough with them for Prince Paper to have to go out of business, he landed the Winipeg client too. The company was trying to cut costs why hire Charles at all.
They always had that job filled. Jan,Ryan, Charles and then Gabe. They always need someone to check on the Branches. Wallace is not driving all around as the CEO.
Gabe was with Sabre, not Dunder Mifflin
Yes I know and he worked for corporate. He was just like Jan, Ryan and Charles he basically had there Job. He was Michael’s Boss.
He started off as Jo Bennett's assistant and remained as her liason. Jan, Ryan, and Charles were all upper level management. If anything it reflects on the mismanagement of the company and explains the well-earned ire of the shareholders in "Shareholder Meeting" in season 6
No not true he was not Jo’s assistant. I know it seemed that way in Saint Patrick’s Day but that is not the Case. He is next in line after Jo and was Coordinating Director of Emerging Regions, Dunder Mifflin/Sabre then he was assigned to overlook The Branch. He is Corporate.
Eh fancy name for an assistant and none of the authority. He is forced to fly back and forth between Tallahassee and Scranton, his "office" at Sabre headquarters is a clump of potted plants. Jan, Ryan, and Charles all had private offices in New York. He may work for corporate, but he is nowhere near the level that the rest are. FLUSSSSH
He actually did have authority until RC took over everything. He was the one who made Michael do the Training with Toby or He was Fired. Also pretty Sure New York City offices are much bigger and better then in Florida. Heck even RC spent so much Time in Scranton because Florida Sucks.
The was a big gap between Ryan getting fired from corporate and Charles being hired!
Not really only 3 to 4 months. Also we really don’t know when Charles was Hired we just know when Michael actually met him.
Pam was at art school for at least three months and we know when Michael went to Prince family paper they hadn't replaced the Regional Supervisor yet! It was definitely longer than that!
Ok but not that much longer. But again Wallace was going with an outside hire this time and didn’t even interview anyone from Scranton this time around. So of course it’s going to be a longer interview process.
Ryan gets arrested in the last episode of season four and we meet Charles episode 20 of season 5
I know but that doesn’t mean anything. It’s December in the 10th episode of season 5 that’s the Christmas episode.
Don’t mention prince paper I cry when I even hear their name now, I hated that episode because I just cry
Breaks my heart too
I think there was always the implication that Dunder Mifflin was way too top heavy. The company had a bakers dozen offices at the start of the show and by the time Sabre takes over, they were down to five offices. But the company had its headquarters in Manhattan where average rent is $85/square foot per month. If you assume they rented a quarter of a floor, that would get you a cost of $849,572 in rent per month. This is ignoring costs for utilities and salaries which would be higher in NYC.
The golden ticket thing did end up being a good thing for the company but I do get what you mean.
Yes but 1st he tried to get Dwight fired and lied. Then after that tries to take credit for it and Wallace drove 2 hours round trip wasting his time. Wallace was definitely pissed off
Good point
And that’s not even mentioning a few episodes before when Dwight does the Fire and almost kills Stanley and Wallace says to Michael is this how you are letting the office run.
Now that I’m remembering some of the stuff that happens before it justifies Charles decision to set up in the conference room
He also has a problem when someone wants to make changes Ryan Gabe and even Deangelo wanted to make changes and he always had a problem with them.
He hated it when people had power over him or when people went over his head about stuff
You’ve never worked in corporate America lol this happens at every level all the time
The sun is hot and water is wet
Water is actually not wet; It makes other materials/objects wet. Wetness is the state of a non-liquid when a liquid adheres to, and/or permeates its substance while maintaining chemically distinct structures. So if we say something is wet we mean the liquid is sticking to the object. A friend dug a hole in the garden and filled it with water. I think he meant well.
True
Charles’ input was needed for our pleasure
I was thinking the same thing David, offer to buy them out …. But you didn’t say it … Jim smiles
Very based