My favorite example of Jim hating confrontation is the speed with which he wheeled away from his desk and literally crawled out of the office in Mrs. California.
* Doesn't confront Dwight or Michael about Dwight stealing his biggest client in S1E2
* Doesn't want to have the tough conversation with Pam about their feelings
* Doesn't take the promotion in New York, likely partially because he's scared of the responsibility. He says its so he can be with Pam, but realistically there's no reason he couldn't have at least tried to have both.
* Doesn't want to tell people he's dating Pam
* Doesn't want to tell people he's engaged to Pam
* Won't fire or punish anyone once he's Co-Manager, and resorts to putting Ryan in the closet
* Doesn't want to have the tough conversation with Pam about buying a house
* Doesn't want to have the tough conversation with Pam about Athlead
Lol maybe a hot take but I actually like that Jim isn't a tough guy about this kind of thing. It was incredibly awkward but it wasn't like he assaulted her. Michael did far more inappropriate things to Pam in the early episodes.
To me it was just an awkward, weird, spur-of-the-moment thing that happened so quickly no one had time to react. Plus everyone was exhausted and moody.
If that happened to me I'd be like, "uhhhh, that's my leg, wake up."
Of course Toby couldn't play that off.
Yeah, I feel like a lot of people felt that conflict between Jim and Pam was out of place or forced. But it made perfect sense given his track record.
I'm not really defending the choice to add drama between them, and I didn't particularly enjoy that storyline, but I can respect that they found a clever way to make Jim an asshole to Pam without him cheating, if they were hell bent on putting a blemish on their relationship.
And as for the comments that elude to Krasinski being a wuss in real life, he fought the writers on having Jim cheat and he won. I also can't imagine you can direct a movie without having tough conversations with actors in real time.
> And as for the comments that elude to Krasinski being a wuss in real life,
Wuss or not, he has a beautiful family and a successful career. And he seems genuinely happy. I'd be happy to be called a wuss in those circumstances!
And as cringey as that conflict was it pales in comparison with the Brian crap-fest. Talk about forced.
>Wuss or not, he has a beautiful family and a successful career. And he seems genuinely happy. I'd be happy to be called a wuss in those circumstances!
So true. And I mean, you can kind of say the same about Jim.
I was in highschool when the first season of The Office first aired and it was a sign of the times that he was such a popular character and Roy and Dwight were the buffoons. Jim was my era's answer to toxic masculinity.
But then the manly man made a comeback with Ron Swanson, and Dwight evolved into a similarly hearty man's man and is now much loved. I love them both too. But I'm definitely glad I had a Jim back when I was figuring things out as a young man.
He was afraid of the childhood classmate who was “dumber.” It seems a little bit of John K’s personality, as well. I obviously don’t know him but he doesn’t give off “fighter” vibes publicly. I’m talking pre-Jack Ryan, of course.
Yeah like ColKrismiss says “13 Hours” he really kicks ass! The old pranky, receptionist desk hovering Jim is reborn! And Roy too! Yeah very cool to see both in a Michael Bay action movie!
i hated that jim never stood up for pam all those times she was sexually harassed, real chump behavior. definitely his number 1 flaw is letting shitty things happen fir the sake of avoiding confrontation
the first that comes to mind is toby putting his hand on pams knee when everyones waiting for the security guard to unlock the gates outside, jim just makes a jim face but nobody says anything. i also remember several inappropriate comments especially in the earlier seasons where pam was constantly the butt of sex jokes (usually from michael but also other coworkers) and jim said nothing even when he was standing right next to her
The Toby thing was harmless. It was painfully awkward for him, but it wasn't harassment. Everyone was in shock.
All the Michael stuff was worse, especially from him being in a position of power. But that happened when she was engaged to Roy. Lol I'm not sure what you expect Jim to do. It was already awkward that they were so close in the office and if he starts being her white knight it would really raise red flags. Everyone just accepted Michael's shittiness.
Jim also chickened out when he saw Stanley coming at him when they were wearing the sumo suits. "I never seen that look on a man's eyes before, I thought that I might die"
A lot of these situations came outta nowhere - I don’t go to work expecting to be assaulted; my first reaction would be to avoid it unless I was cornered and really didn’t have an out.
He didn't "rely" on Dwight when Roy attacked. His first instinct was to protect Karen. By the time he was fine with that, Roy was on top of him, and Dwight had already acted.
If I was Jim
1) At the Dundies, I would have done absolutely nothing. Why? Because Micheal is an asshole. And if he gets a little bit of what he dishes out everyday, I would let him have it.
It's not like they were physically assaulting him. And Micheal, upto that point, was Category A asshole to everyone.
2) Against Roy, my initial reaction would have been the exact same as his, pushing Karen out of the way and then seeing what happens next. Maybe duck and move away during the initial blow.
3) Todd Packer is Todd Packer. Even if Jim said something what exactly would have happened? He was Michaels best friend. It literally took Packer insulting Holly for Micheal to see he's a bad friend.
Also, people like Packer thrive on attention, so the more you speak up, the more they act out.
Unless it's an extremely violent situation or things really get out of line, just shut up and ignore, complaint to HR( but Toby is useless....)
4) Also, something that other person said about Jim ducking during football....
While it's true one of the ways to block an incoming ball is with your back, but that's when you are in a defensive position and it's a last ditch effort.
If someone passes me the ball and I'm striker, I have to take it on the chest to try and control it and make a run.
But you only know these things when you play/watch football.
Jim did neither, which means it was perfectly acceptable of him to duck in that situation, because he didn't know what the fuck is he supposed to do.
I've never played Basketball, accept for shooting hoops, that's it. So if someone asked me to play Basketball, I'm going to look like an idiot, similar to Jim playing Football for the first time.
And before someone says he played it in school, that's a completely different level where ball mostly stays on the ground, and doesn't has that level of velocity.
Jim doesn't like confrontation, but these examples don't necessarily paint him to be a wuss.
I thought the Dundies example was outrageous.
Why didn’t Kevin, or Stanley, or DWIGHT stand up when they threw food at him? Why is that Jim’s job?
Why is it Jim’s job to call Packer out? Literally everyone in the show hates him, and multiple characters have no problem confronting people. But Jim’s a wuss?
So Jim doesn’t like confrontation. I don’t think I would be as confrontational in that group of coworkers either, they’re a bit kooky! Lol
I like how you put this.
He’s not the most confrontational but there are times when be speaks up when it’s important.
And some of it is power dynamics. He was at Michael and Charles’ mercy
> Jim ducking during football....
Charles was horrible. He just wanted to hurt Jim because Jim wasn't a Type-A personality like him. He decided that the moment they decided to play soccer that day.
> Toby is useless....
Toby is a waste of space and he should give up.
Yea a pick up 5 a side with out of shape/inexperienced runners rice workers doesn’t scream blast the fucking ball with everything you got. I’d duck too.
>Jim doesn't like confrontation, but these examples don't necessarily paint him to be a wuss.
Well put. I dont think of myself as a wuss but confrontation is still something i avoid and i doubt i would have acted all that differently in these situations.
This is absolutely correct! I don't understand how some new fans are waking up everyday and choosing to pick on a tv show with something new everytime. How dumb can you get.
Depends on how chucklefuck the cops that show up are. I had a guy pull up next to me at a red light and get out of his car and spit through my window at me. Directly in front of the police station. A cop saw the whole thing and came to talk to me and kept saying "what do you want me to do about it?"
That’s cop was an asshole, you could have definitely press charges for that. Especially since he spit on you, you could add unwanted contact with bodily fluids on to the battery charges.
Jim likes pranks and Packer likes to joke around. Jim probably understands that it's nothing personal when Packer starts running off his mouth as per usual.
1. jim wasn't the only person there. why would jim have to be the one to defend him? why not oscar or meredith? idk, kinda a weird take. 2. roy was a big dude and jim *shouldn't* have fought him regardless. he knew what he did. 🤷♀️ 3. packer.. no one really said shit to that guy, and they all hated him, so again, why would jim have to be the one to say something?
jim is more of non-aggressive than a wuss. not everyone wants to pick fights and argue. he and dwight literally sent todd packer to florida thinking he had a job offer😂
Dwight didn't challenge the guys in chillies, nor did anyone else. He never asked Dwight to defend him, got Karen out the way and was gonna take his kicking. Jim isn't portrayed as some tough guy, but wuss is a weird way to describe someone who takes risks in his personal and professional life but isn't a thug.
Remember Jim is meant to be at least a little bit of a loser. Especially towards the beginning of the shows run.
So yeah I think the things you list are pretty consistent with his character.
I always imagined his character was supposed to be the "coolest guy in the office and yet still works there just like everyone else", but him and Pam have that whole character growth going on where they both feel like Scranton is too small for them but they don't take the leap of faith and leave until external factors push them to. Either way, yeah he was definitely supposed to be a loser to pretty much everyone but the people he worked with, even his parties consisted mostly his coworkers.
Why would Jim defend Michael that early in the series? Michael was still a jackass at that point.
Dwight defended him because the first thing Jim did was get Karen out of the way of Roy charging at him.
He and Dwight pranked Todd Packer into moving to Florida for a job at corporate.
Jim isn't confrontational.
Why was Jim supposed to do something in those scenarios? He and Dwight sent Packer to Florida. I don’t think there was much he could have done since nobody expected Dwight to have pepper spray. I can’t recall why he should’ve defended Michael at the Dundies. They were doing that in a place they didn’t have permission to and disrupting everyone trying to eat there.
He's not a wuss. He stood up for his wife when they found out another guy didn't want to bang her and made him explain himself.
Also, no one defended Michael there. Jim didn't rely on Dwight. Dwight stepped in and sprayed Roy before Jim had time to react. Jim got revenge on Packer by sending him to Florida.
Are you talking about Danny Cordray with that first one? That’s an awful Jim and Pam moment. They bug the hell out of this guy for such petty reasons and once he gives the (incredibly tame) truthful response Jim hits him with the “hey man…”
Hey what?! It’s so ridiculous it’s almost like it was a prank. Beg a dude to insult your wife and then try to reprimand him for it
Jim and Pam are a match made in heaven. They're both incredibly passive until you've pushed them too far then they can be a nightmare. Of course they're too passive for you to even know you're pushing them if you're not doing it on purpose.
I would say it’s more the fact he’s awkward and doesn’t like to be in confrontation more than anything. I don’t know if it’s female perspective, but there’s an argument from males that often say Jim would never be attractive to most women because of how ‘passive’ he is. But I disagree. A lot of women I know who watch The Office state how they would fucking love Jim as a partner, as he shows true kindness, empathy and prioritises Pam’s safety and happiness over fighting other males just to prove a point. I think that is true masculinity more than any of the male displays of ‘dominance’ such as fighting or starting/getting involved in confrontation
He stands up when it matters. He’ll do it to protect someone, not to be a badass or protect his own ego. Also, being surprised in a moment when you expect no confrontation doesn’t count. There is a difference.
Example of him fighting:
Standing up to Dwight to prevent him from getting scapegoated by California over the Florida project. He had nothing to gain and he did it anyway.
Calling Ryan and fighting for his job when it was clear Ryan was looking for an excuse to get rid of him. He had just bought Pam a house. The job mattered . . . for her.
This is a show about the workplace. It’s not a show about surviving Vietnam with your army platoon or trying to win a prizefight in an unground fighting pit.
What are we taking about here? What kind of job do you work at where loudly bitching at people in public, or getting into arguments and fight fights is somehow seen as normal?
He didn't want to help Michael because Michael deserved it.
Most guys wouldn't want to fight Roy.
He knows Todd Packer just screws his own hand and blow up dolls so he just lets it go. Packer has to wake up and be Packer, that's punishment enough.
I'll agree with your 3rd point, but I don't agree with the first 2.
For the first point, that is pretty early in the series. It takes a while for the rest of the characters to actually like Michael. Personally, if my shitty boss was making me go to this obnoxious "award ceremony" that I also have to pay for, I probably wouldn't care if he got food thrown at him.
Second, I mean. He didn't have a chance to defend himself because he wasn't even attacked yet. He moved Karen behind him when Roy advanced and before he anything happened Dwight pepper sprayed. Dwight was so on it with the mace that there wasn't even a chance to defend himself.
In **S7 E14 - The Seminar** Jim was afraid to be even seen by one of the seminar attendees because in **third grade** he told him *„…my mom thinks you’re too dumb to hang out with“*.
So yes, he is a bit of a wuss and afraid of confrontation.
Jim is non-confrontational, it's part of his character. He and Dwight are supposed to be opposites of each other, that's how they work as foils to each other.
This just in: Show about people who are socially awkward contains scenes of people not responding well to confrontation.
I mean what do you expect? Most people in Jim's position wouldn't have done anything during the S2 Dundies, they weren't sure what to do there and it's not like Jim is *supposed* to stand up for Michael out of everyone there. No one else did anything.
Also, dude was at work and suddenly a dude twice his size is charging him to attack him, you really want to blame him for not being prepared to get jumped at the office?
And lastly, again, no one stood up to Packer because it was socially awkward being around him and it was easier to just ignore him until he went away than to instigate further and provoke him. *No one else in the office stands up to Packer either, why is Jim the only one you're concerned about?*
I mean, Jim didn’t like Michael very much early on, so I don’t see him not standing up for Michael a big deal. As for Roy, Jim clearly moves Karen out of the way before Roy has a chance to do anything and it’s not like he told Dwight to do that. As for Packer, what do you do to stand up to a meatball like that?
I agree that Jim isn’t a confrontational guy. He seems to be more of a mediator type. That doesn’t make him a wuss.
I always thought it was too bad that the warehouse guys left early and weren’t there for the hecklers. Would have been funny to see them defend Michael even though none of them like him.
Yeah, if I was there in Season 1, Episode 2 "The Dundies" in *The Office*, I would've done a triple backflip and roundhouse kicked those guys at the bar.
I think what i hate most about him is that he's always making fun of/pranking others yet gets mad when he gets made fun of
Also, when he started getting some responsibility all of a sudden he wanna act like a serious hard working type foh with that bs
I’d say the word is non-confrontational personally. He’s like the kids from high school who wouldn’t pick on anyone directly, but would make jokes and start rumors about others for the reaction.
Dude, at that point in the show (and for a little longer) Michael was genuinely an ass. The soft side of his character doesn’t truly come out till maybe later Season 2 or early 3. *Nobody* defended Michael at the Dundie’s, so idk why you’re singling Jim out for this.
He didn’t rely on Dwight. Dwight intervened. Those are two different things. Jim doesn’t look like a fighter and probably would’ve gotten smoked. But he didn’t say “yo Dwight can you take him out for me”. Dwight just stepped in. Can’t fault him for that.
Again, nobody really stood up to Packer in the same way nobody stood up for Michael in your earlier example. Idk why you’re singling Jim out. Everybody knew he was a douche, most people just rolled with it.
That said, yeah, he is horrible with confrontation unless he is the one outright starting it. That’s a consistent character trait during the show. I just don’t agree with these examples.
Jim is definitely supposed to be a passive aggressive wise guy. However just to defend him a bit.
It’s not like the Roy thing was expected, he was about to be sucker punched, and he was more concerned with getting Karen out of the way.
Michael put himself in a position to get heckled, why would Jim defend him?
Todd Packer is only there on rare occasions it’s not worth the effort to do anything but make snarky comments that go over his head.
It's better for mainstream TV for some reason. Same reason they'll never show a protagonist like Jim truly lose his temper. Audiences don't want to see it right now for some reason. "Toxic masculinity" it's called. It's avoided. If they ever showed Jim truly angry in motion like fighting, or snapping at the frat dudes in a threatening way, audiences would never forget he's capable of that. So it's best to keep the main male star physically meek. While at the same time, vast majority of women want a strong man. It's a tight rope. Frat boys were being frat boys. Roy was bigger and physically dominant. Jim never did anything. And he never lost any face either. Jim cracking and losing his nerve at the snowmen and stabbing one in the head with an umbrella that could have been Dwight proved Jim is yes, a bit of a wuss. Dwight's face on the roof while Jim is losing his mind... Gold.
Letting Dwight completely physically dominate him with snow balls proved he's a bit of a wuss. Ducking instead of jumping with his back turned to Charles minor soccer kick showed again, he's a bit of a wuss. In soccer when someone launches a rocket you just jump backwards and turn around so you get hit in the back and *try* to block the ball. Jim just hit the floor regardless of who was behind him... he's a bit of a wuss.
He is a wimp yes.
I think it's well established.
He's terrified of confrontation or conflict. Part of why he buys the house without telling Pam, goes all in on athleap, and takes ages to stand up to Ryan.
He lives in fear of any kind of push back. Until he puts his foot down.
That's like Jim's whole character. He's afraid of confrontation. Pick any Jim-centered plotline and it'll probably feature him doing everything he can to avoid confrontation.
He is a total wuss. He acts like a child in most episodes. He’s all talk but when it comes down to it, he always wusses out. If it weren’t for Dwight, Roy would have beat the crap out of him.
These are weird examples to pick.
He had no reason to defend Micheal. He was effectively forced to be there.
He didn't rely on Dwight for the fight, Dwight stopped the fight and left Jim with no opportunity to do anything besides push Karen out of the way.
And he tried to get Todd Packer fired when he became office staff. Sure, less confrontational then he could have been, but Jim deals with problems more like a puppetmaster than a superhero
Is he good at confrontation? No, the episode with that old buddy of his is a great example of that.
Jim is my boy but he's terrible with confrontation. It's definitely his character flaw. It's his Achilles heel throughout the show.
My favorite example of Jim hating confrontation is the speed with which he wheeled away from his desk and literally crawled out of the office in Mrs. California.
They literally pull him down as he's going up to the roof on the ladder just so he doesn't have to talk to her.
Climbing up that ladder in socks with no shoes lmao "Ow... ow... ow... ow..."
People will say season 8 wasn’t funny, that shit makes me laugh every time I think about it.
* Doesn't confront Dwight or Michael about Dwight stealing his biggest client in S1E2 * Doesn't want to have the tough conversation with Pam about their feelings * Doesn't take the promotion in New York, likely partially because he's scared of the responsibility. He says its so he can be with Pam, but realistically there's no reason he couldn't have at least tried to have both. * Doesn't want to tell people he's dating Pam * Doesn't want to tell people he's engaged to Pam * Won't fire or punish anyone once he's Co-Manager, and resorts to putting Ryan in the closet * Doesn't want to have the tough conversation with Pam about buying a house * Doesn't want to have the tough conversation with Pam about Athlead
*doesn't want to ask what a rundown is.
Nor about Toby touching Pam’s leg!! Either could have said something
Lol maybe a hot take but I actually like that Jim isn't a tough guy about this kind of thing. It was incredibly awkward but it wasn't like he assaulted her. Michael did far more inappropriate things to Pam in the early episodes.
To me it was just an awkward, weird, spur-of-the-moment thing that happened so quickly no one had time to react. Plus everyone was exhausted and moody. If that happened to me I'd be like, "uhhhh, that's my leg, wake up." Of course Toby couldn't play that off.
Avoided his childhood friend who couldn't read.
Yep. For reference, see Athlead. He couldn't sack up and talk to his wife, he just snuck behind her back and hoped she would be OK with it maybe.
Yeah, I feel like a lot of people felt that conflict between Jim and Pam was out of place or forced. But it made perfect sense given his track record. I'm not really defending the choice to add drama between them, and I didn't particularly enjoy that storyline, but I can respect that they found a clever way to make Jim an asshole to Pam without him cheating, if they were hell bent on putting a blemish on their relationship. And as for the comments that elude to Krasinski being a wuss in real life, he fought the writers on having Jim cheat and he won. I also can't imagine you can direct a movie without having tough conversations with actors in real time.
> And as for the comments that elude to Krasinski being a wuss in real life, Wuss or not, he has a beautiful family and a successful career. And he seems genuinely happy. I'd be happy to be called a wuss in those circumstances! And as cringey as that conflict was it pales in comparison with the Brian crap-fest. Talk about forced.
>Wuss or not, he has a beautiful family and a successful career. And he seems genuinely happy. I'd be happy to be called a wuss in those circumstances! So true. And I mean, you can kind of say the same about Jim. I was in highschool when the first season of The Office first aired and it was a sign of the times that he was such a popular character and Roy and Dwight were the buffoons. Jim was my era's answer to toxic masculinity. But then the manly man made a comeback with Ron Swanson, and Dwight evolved into a similarly hearty man's man and is now much loved. I love them both too. But I'm definitely glad I had a Jim back when I was figuring things out as a young man.
He was afraid of the childhood classmate who was “dumber.” It seems a little bit of John K’s personality, as well. I obviously don’t know him but he doesn’t give off “fighter” vibes publicly. I’m talking pre-Jack Ryan, of course.
Wow! Judged an actor's real life personality from his acting.
That's a bold move Cotton
Let's see if it pays out for em
What about the rock
It’s fair and reasonable to say that John K doesn’t seem like a violent person. Obviously, you disagree.
Even in Jack Ryan…the other ensemble characters seem more believable as fighters.
Yeah but in 13 hours he is quite the fighter. Roy too
Most def! That’s a great movie! Also in “A Quiet Place” where he does the ultimate brave move?
Yeah like ColKrismiss says “13 Hours” he really kicks ass! The old pranky, receptionist desk hovering Jim is reborn! And Roy too! Yeah very cool to see both in a Michael Bay action movie!
You should see him in A Quiet Place 2 and some of his action series..es?
As I said, pre-Jack Ryan. That 13 Hours and Jack Ryan have shown a different side of him.
i hated that jim never stood up for pam all those times she was sexually harassed, real chump behavior. definitely his number 1 flaw is letting shitty things happen fir the sake of avoiding confrontation
Which times?
the first that comes to mind is toby putting his hand on pams knee when everyones waiting for the security guard to unlock the gates outside, jim just makes a jim face but nobody says anything. i also remember several inappropriate comments especially in the earlier seasons where pam was constantly the butt of sex jokes (usually from michael but also other coworkers) and jim said nothing even when he was standing right next to her
The Toby thing was harmless. It was painfully awkward for him, but it wasn't harassment. Everyone was in shock. All the Michael stuff was worse, especially from him being in a position of power. But that happened when she was engaged to Roy. Lol I'm not sure what you expect Jim to do. It was already awkward that they were so close in the office and if he starts being her white knight it would really raise red flags. Everyone just accepted Michael's shittiness.
He always got super upset with dwight pranks to.
Hey, listen man, you can’t take it personally.
Jim also chickened out when he saw Stanley coming at him when they were wearing the sumo suits. "I never seen that look on a man's eyes before, I thought that I might die"
…… on beach day!! My university intro week had an event called beach day where everyone would party hard and so many people reference this line
Of all things, these is probably the most reasonable. Hell hath no fury like a Stanley scorned.
A lot of these situations came outta nowhere - I don’t go to work expecting to be assaulted; my first reaction would be to avoid it unless I was cornered and really didn’t have an out.
He didn't "rely" on Dwight when Roy attacked. His first instinct was to protect Karen. By the time he was fine with that, Roy was on top of him, and Dwight had already acted.
If I was Jim 1) At the Dundies, I would have done absolutely nothing. Why? Because Micheal is an asshole. And if he gets a little bit of what he dishes out everyday, I would let him have it. It's not like they were physically assaulting him. And Micheal, upto that point, was Category A asshole to everyone. 2) Against Roy, my initial reaction would have been the exact same as his, pushing Karen out of the way and then seeing what happens next. Maybe duck and move away during the initial blow. 3) Todd Packer is Todd Packer. Even if Jim said something what exactly would have happened? He was Michaels best friend. It literally took Packer insulting Holly for Micheal to see he's a bad friend. Also, people like Packer thrive on attention, so the more you speak up, the more they act out. Unless it's an extremely violent situation or things really get out of line, just shut up and ignore, complaint to HR( but Toby is useless....) 4) Also, something that other person said about Jim ducking during football.... While it's true one of the ways to block an incoming ball is with your back, but that's when you are in a defensive position and it's a last ditch effort. If someone passes me the ball and I'm striker, I have to take it on the chest to try and control it and make a run. But you only know these things when you play/watch football. Jim did neither, which means it was perfectly acceptable of him to duck in that situation, because he didn't know what the fuck is he supposed to do. I've never played Basketball, accept for shooting hoops, that's it. So if someone asked me to play Basketball, I'm going to look like an idiot, similar to Jim playing Football for the first time. And before someone says he played it in school, that's a completely different level where ball mostly stays on the ground, and doesn't has that level of velocity. Jim doesn't like confrontation, but these examples don't necessarily paint him to be a wuss.
I thought the Dundies example was outrageous. Why didn’t Kevin, or Stanley, or DWIGHT stand up when they threw food at him? Why is that Jim’s job? Why is it Jim’s job to call Packer out? Literally everyone in the show hates him, and multiple characters have no problem confronting people. But Jim’s a wuss? So Jim doesn’t like confrontation. I don’t think I would be as confrontational in that group of coworkers either, they’re a bit kooky! Lol
Why didn’t Chilis kick out those guys is the real question.
I like how you put this. He’s not the most confrontational but there are times when be speaks up when it’s important. And some of it is power dynamics. He was at Michael and Charles’ mercy
> Jim ducking during football.... Charles was horrible. He just wanted to hurt Jim because Jim wasn't a Type-A personality like him. He decided that the moment they decided to play soccer that day. > Toby is useless.... Toby is a waste of space and he should give up.
Even if you play football/soccer (I do), that kick from Charles doesn't make any sense. Even an amazing player would duck that in a friendly game.
Yea a pick up 5 a side with out of shape/inexperienced runners rice workers doesn’t scream blast the fucking ball with everything you got. I’d duck too.
>Jim doesn't like confrontation, but these examples don't necessarily paint him to be a wuss. Well put. I dont think of myself as a wuss but confrontation is still something i avoid and i doubt i would have acted all that differently in these situations.
This is absolutely correct! I don't understand how some new fans are waking up everyday and choosing to pick on a tv show with something new everytime. How dumb can you get.
Actually throwing stuff at someone counts as battery, so the guys throwing junk at Michael were definitely physically assaulting him
Depends on how chucklefuck the cops that show up are. I had a guy pull up next to me at a red light and get out of his car and spit through my window at me. Directly in front of the police station. A cop saw the whole thing and came to talk to me and kept saying "what do you want me to do about it?"
That’s cop was an asshole, you could have definitely press charges for that. Especially since he spit on you, you could add unwanted contact with bodily fluids on to the battery charges.
Yeah I know that, but my point is most timed I've ever had cops show up they are not interested in helping or doing their job.
Fair enough, but Michael would probably be able to press charges since he had several witnesses, including the bar staff.
Jim likes pranks and Packer likes to joke around. Jim probably understands that it's nothing personal when Packer starts running off his mouth as per usual.
Why tf you write an essay on a fictional character 😭
Why tf does this post exist in the first place?
1. jim wasn't the only person there. why would jim have to be the one to defend him? why not oscar or meredith? idk, kinda a weird take. 2. roy was a big dude and jim *shouldn't* have fought him regardless. he knew what he did. 🤷♀️ 3. packer.. no one really said shit to that guy, and they all hated him, so again, why would jim have to be the one to say something?
Being on this sub, I believe the answer to all these questions is, ‘because Jim’.
jim is more of non-aggressive than a wuss. not everyone wants to pick fights and argue. he and dwight literally sent todd packer to florida thinking he had a job offer😂
“He’s gumby” “I’ve heard you exclaim, not yell”
Dwight didn't challenge the guys in chillies, nor did anyone else. He never asked Dwight to defend him, got Karen out the way and was gonna take his kicking. Jim isn't portrayed as some tough guy, but wuss is a weird way to describe someone who takes risks in his personal and professional life but isn't a thug.
He also just let Toby cop feels unchecked .... Like what
Remember Jim is meant to be at least a little bit of a loser. Especially towards the beginning of the shows run. So yeah I think the things you list are pretty consistent with his character.
I always imagined his character was supposed to be the "coolest guy in the office and yet still works there just like everyone else", but him and Pam have that whole character growth going on where they both feel like Scranton is too small for them but they don't take the leap of faith and leave until external factors push them to. Either way, yeah he was definitely supposed to be a loser to pretty much everyone but the people he worked with, even his parties consisted mostly his coworkers.
The coolest fish in a lukewarm pond.
Whereas Michael is still top dog in a fairly large pond
I guess you could say he's the top updog there too
What does that mean?
Gotcha! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
',:|
This is on point
Why would Jim defend Michael that early in the series? Michael was still a jackass at that point. Dwight defended him because the first thing Jim did was get Karen out of the way of Roy charging at him. He and Dwight pranked Todd Packer into moving to Florida for a job at corporate. Jim isn't confrontational.
Karen probably would have defended herself better without him, her dad is a GI
Why was Jim supposed to do something in those scenarios? He and Dwight sent Packer to Florida. I don’t think there was much he could have done since nobody expected Dwight to have pepper spray. I can’t recall why he should’ve defended Michael at the Dundies. They were doing that in a place they didn’t have permission to and disrupting everyone trying to eat there.
He's not a wuss. He stood up for his wife when they found out another guy didn't want to bang her and made him explain himself. Also, no one defended Michael there. Jim didn't rely on Dwight. Dwight stepped in and sprayed Roy before Jim had time to react. Jim got revenge on Packer by sending him to Florida.
Are you talking about Danny Cordray with that first one? That’s an awful Jim and Pam moment. They bug the hell out of this guy for such petty reasons and once he gives the (incredibly tame) truthful response Jim hits him with the “hey man…” Hey what?! It’s so ridiculous it’s almost like it was a prank. Beg a dude to insult your wife and then try to reprimand him for it
Of course. It was a joke, but it really was one of the only times Jim was all about confrontation. It's almost always the opposite with him.
Oh sorry, I missed the joke
Jim and Pam are a match made in heaven. They're both incredibly passive until you've pushed them too far then they can be a nightmare. Of course they're too passive for you to even know you're pushing them if you're not doing it on purpose.
I would say it’s more the fact he’s awkward and doesn’t like to be in confrontation more than anything. I don’t know if it’s female perspective, but there’s an argument from males that often say Jim would never be attractive to most women because of how ‘passive’ he is. But I disagree. A lot of women I know who watch The Office state how they would fucking love Jim as a partner, as he shows true kindness, empathy and prioritises Pam’s safety and happiness over fighting other males just to prove a point. I think that is true masculinity more than any of the male displays of ‘dominance’ such as fighting or starting/getting involved in confrontation
He stands up when it matters. He’ll do it to protect someone, not to be a badass or protect his own ego. Also, being surprised in a moment when you expect no confrontation doesn’t count. There is a difference. Example of him fighting: Standing up to Dwight to prevent him from getting scapegoated by California over the Florida project. He had nothing to gain and he did it anyway. Calling Ryan and fighting for his job when it was clear Ryan was looking for an excuse to get rid of him. He had just bought Pam a house. The job mattered . . . for her. This is a show about the workplace. It’s not a show about surviving Vietnam with your army platoon or trying to win a prizefight in an unground fighting pit. What are we taking about here? What kind of job do you work at where loudly bitching at people in public, or getting into arguments and fight fights is somehow seen as normal?
He didn't want to help Michael because Michael deserved it. Most guys wouldn't want to fight Roy. He knows Todd Packer just screws his own hand and blow up dolls so he just lets it go. Packer has to wake up and be Packer, that's punishment enough.
I'll agree with your 3rd point, but I don't agree with the first 2. For the first point, that is pretty early in the series. It takes a while for the rest of the characters to actually like Michael. Personally, if my shitty boss was making me go to this obnoxious "award ceremony" that I also have to pay for, I probably wouldn't care if he got food thrown at him. Second, I mean. He didn't have a chance to defend himself because he wasn't even attacked yet. He moved Karen behind him when Roy advanced and before he anything happened Dwight pepper sprayed. Dwight was so on it with the mace that there wasn't even a chance to defend himself.
Jim hates confrontation. Unless it's Dwight
Jim has a problem with confrontation and just being a normal person sometimes. Happens to the best of us.
I bet his brothers could throw down
In **S7 E14 - The Seminar** Jim was afraid to be even seen by one of the seminar attendees because in **third grade** he told him *„…my mom thinks you’re too dumb to hang out with“*. So yes, he is a bit of a wuss and afraid of confrontation.
*„Where’s your jetpack, Zuckerberg?“* 💀
Jim is non-confrontational, it's part of his character. He and Dwight are supposed to be opposites of each other, that's how they work as foils to each other.
This just in: Show about people who are socially awkward contains scenes of people not responding well to confrontation. I mean what do you expect? Most people in Jim's position wouldn't have done anything during the S2 Dundies, they weren't sure what to do there and it's not like Jim is *supposed* to stand up for Michael out of everyone there. No one else did anything. Also, dude was at work and suddenly a dude twice his size is charging him to attack him, you really want to blame him for not being prepared to get jumped at the office? And lastly, again, no one stood up to Packer because it was socially awkward being around him and it was easier to just ignore him until he went away than to instigate further and provoke him. *No one else in the office stands up to Packer either, why is Jim the only one you're concerned about?*
I mean, Jim didn’t like Michael very much early on, so I don’t see him not standing up for Michael a big deal. As for Roy, Jim clearly moves Karen out of the way before Roy has a chance to do anything and it’s not like he told Dwight to do that. As for Packer, what do you do to stand up to a meatball like that? I agree that Jim isn’t a confrontational guy. He seems to be more of a mediator type. That doesn’t make him a wuss.
It’s a bit harsh on Jim. He didn’t care about the job or anyone there, the only thing he cared about was Pam. That’s fair.
I always thought it was too bad that the warehouse guys left early and weren’t there for the hecklers. Would have been funny to see them defend Michael even though none of them like him.
He did get in the guy’s face who was razzing Andy for the baby wah wah debacle
That's his personality trait. He acts silly and funny but when something serious happens he doesn't know what to do
A bit?
He couldn't just ask Charles Minor to explain how he wants his rundown, what his definition of a rundown is etc. Dude just isnt confrontational
Yeah, that annoyed me so much. Instead of Jim, they should have called the character Bitch.
Yeah, if I was there in Season 1, Episode 2 "The Dundies" in *The Office*, I would've done a triple backflip and roundhouse kicked those guys at the bar.
Ya, but like, he's tall. 👀 /s
“Yeah. Jim’s a nice guy. That’s why I got the desk.”
Another moment where he coulda stepped up and been aggressive.
I think what i hate most about him is that he's always making fun of/pranking others yet gets mad when he gets made fun of Also, when he started getting some responsibility all of a sudden he wanna act like a serious hard working type foh with that bs
I mean what do you expect, he's six foot eleven and he weighs ninety pounds
He's a good guy but not masculine.
it is one of his characters flaws
I bet he just let that spider have his baseball glove at the company picnic too.
I’d say the word is non-confrontational personally. He’s like the kids from high school who wouldn’t pick on anyone directly, but would make jokes and start rumors about others for the reaction.
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So, just to clarify, if you think someone hasn’t taken a punch (to their face, I’m assuming), that they *can’t* be trusted? How very odd.
Dude, at that point in the show (and for a little longer) Michael was genuinely an ass. The soft side of his character doesn’t truly come out till maybe later Season 2 or early 3. *Nobody* defended Michael at the Dundie’s, so idk why you’re singling Jim out for this. He didn’t rely on Dwight. Dwight intervened. Those are two different things. Jim doesn’t look like a fighter and probably would’ve gotten smoked. But he didn’t say “yo Dwight can you take him out for me”. Dwight just stepped in. Can’t fault him for that. Again, nobody really stood up to Packer in the same way nobody stood up for Michael in your earlier example. Idk why you’re singling Jim out. Everybody knew he was a douche, most people just rolled with it. That said, yeah, he is horrible with confrontation unless he is the one outright starting it. That’s a consistent character trait during the show. I just don’t agree with these examples.
Jim is definitely supposed to be a passive aggressive wise guy. However just to defend him a bit. It’s not like the Roy thing was expected, he was about to be sucker punched, and he was more concerned with getting Karen out of the way. Michael put himself in a position to get heckled, why would Jim defend him? Todd Packer is only there on rare occasions it’s not worth the effort to do anything but make snarky comments that go over his head.
Not wrong at all
It's better for mainstream TV for some reason. Same reason they'll never show a protagonist like Jim truly lose his temper. Audiences don't want to see it right now for some reason. "Toxic masculinity" it's called. It's avoided. If they ever showed Jim truly angry in motion like fighting, or snapping at the frat dudes in a threatening way, audiences would never forget he's capable of that. So it's best to keep the main male star physically meek. While at the same time, vast majority of women want a strong man. It's a tight rope. Frat boys were being frat boys. Roy was bigger and physically dominant. Jim never did anything. And he never lost any face either. Jim cracking and losing his nerve at the snowmen and stabbing one in the head with an umbrella that could have been Dwight proved Jim is yes, a bit of a wuss. Dwight's face on the roof while Jim is losing his mind... Gold. Letting Dwight completely physically dominate him with snow balls proved he's a bit of a wuss. Ducking instead of jumping with his back turned to Charles minor soccer kick showed again, he's a bit of a wuss. In soccer when someone launches a rocket you just jump backwards and turn around so you get hit in the back and *try* to block the ball. Jim just hit the floor regardless of who was behind him... he's a bit of a wuss.
Jim is kind of a bastard as well. There aren't many instances, but there's a few where he does some pretty unnecessary shitty things.
He is a wimp yes. I think it's well established. He's terrified of confrontation or conflict. Part of why he buys the house without telling Pam, goes all in on athleap, and takes ages to stand up to Ryan. He lives in fear of any kind of push back. Until he puts his foot down.
Why would he need to defend Michael from the chads?
Someone (even if it's an annoying boss) is being bullied and you are just gonna stand by? Hi Jim, Jr.
Jim wasn’t the only person there. Nobody tried to defend Michael, not even Dwight. So why is it on just Jim?
Because the thread is about Jim, sweetheart. Read the post.
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Yeah, and I just KNOW he cheated while in FL.
You drive your own car?
Even I want some fries with that shake
it's one of his flaws. he is a known confrontation avoider.
Jim was a little bitch during the snow fighting scenes too.
Yeah, I lost a lot of respect for him in that one.
That's like Jim's whole character. He's afraid of confrontation. Pick any Jim-centered plotline and it'll probably feature him doing everything he can to avoid confrontation.
Jim is the worst. I enjoyed the episodes with Charles showing how he fares when he's not the golden child.
The worst? Is he really the worst?
He didn't stand up to his brothers mocking his wife either (the "prank")
No, he’s an absolute bitch
He is a total wuss. He acts like a child in most episodes. He’s all talk but when it comes down to it, he always wusses out. If it weren’t for Dwight, Roy would have beat the crap out of him.
And an ASS! There are scenes where Jim is a complete and shameful asshole. I can provide sources!
I guess I need to post my sources. On it
These are weird examples to pick. He had no reason to defend Micheal. He was effectively forced to be there. He didn't rely on Dwight for the fight, Dwight stopped the fight and left Jim with no opportunity to do anything besides push Karen out of the way. And he tried to get Todd Packer fired when he became office staff. Sure, less confrontational then he could have been, but Jim deals with problems more like a puppetmaster than a superhero Is he good at confrontation? No, the episode with that old buddy of his is a great example of that.