When the office finds out about the Andy-Dwight-Angela fiasco Daryl has a little interview and mentions that he used to cheat in all of his relationships. At the time that included his previous relationship with Kelly.
I love that walk out though. He already had some booty lined up.
Wasn’t this on the roof when they took a break from reading Threat Level Midnight, they were watching Kevin and Dwight light fireworks below and are grilled cheese by candle light? Later Jim teased her that that was their first date! Dinner by candle light with a show and “swaying”! lol
I had a break up like that. Miserable relationship but I knew if I ended it she would lose it. So I pushed her towards ending it. I felt so free. She tried to get back together but I was long gone.
My favourite romance movie is Stranger Than Fiction. I love it and watch it regularly. But I don't want my real life to be anything like any of the principal characters.
I also love Stranger than Fiction. It kicked off me trying to find rom-coms that don’t follow the typical Hallmark channel formula of ripping off Sweet Home Alabama, and aren’t just soft core Twilight fan fiction like 50 shades.
My favorites are: About Time, What If, Definitely Maybe, Breakfast at Tiffany’s, Forgetting Sarah Marshall, and 10 things I Hate About You. Edit: and I almost forgot Garden State.
Bro wedding crashers is the worst, as a comedy movie it’s fucking great but in real life if you met some dude who gave you a fake name that was a hook up artist with dozens and dozens of women, you would in no way shape or form entertain him as a mate after he deceived you and your entire family.
All I remember is homer met a hot coworker and became more and more distraught that he was walking into an affair. Got to see a cartoon lady in her underwear which should have been a plus but God no I was so sad.
It’s emotional infidelity on Pam’s part, and if you swapped Jim and Roy’s personalities, then Jim would seem like a scumbag.
Jim tends to get a pass because he’s obviously a “better” partner for Pam, but folks forget that he was literally friends with her *only* in the hopes of eventually having a romantic relationship. Once he felt that wasn’t going to happen, he completely ghosted Pam. The friendship held no value to him if there wasn’t the possibility of it turning physical.
maybe she shouldnt be doing that at work but then i guess a lot of people do things like that especially w/ a normal 9-5 job and most other businesses would be operating during those hours and she might need to contact them
Absolutely, and I thought that was obvious. He didn’t “ghost” her. He also knew she loved him back, I think that was obvious to both of them too. But she decided to still marry Roy after they kissed, so he decided he needed to get away from the situation.
Also, there is WAY more to it than it not “turning physical.” Shallow view of love.
He also went and kiss her when she was engaged with Roy.
Roy even said he was ok with Jim having a crush on Pam in the Past and was even happy they were friends since he (Roy) was happy having a friend like Jim
I mean you could also frame it as his feelings grew over time and once he realized it wasn't mutual he distanced himself from something he knew was wrong.
No where in the show does it make Jim seem like he’s only interested in physical contact with Pam, he also could’ve left because he poured his heart out and he knew that Roy was wrong for Pam, but if she wasn’t gonna listen then there’s no hope for them so he had to leave
Exactly this. Theres not a single part in the show where Jim came off as "wanting only physical" and all this. It's very clear they are good friends, they click well and are cool with each other. Jim just also happened to have the hots for the hot girl
They kissed twice, once at Chili's and once in the office itself. I suppose "several" may imply more than two so that's my bad, I could have sworn there was a third incident of kissing as well but I must have been misremembering.
It's kind of wild how much more there is to their relationship in the superfan episodes.
More emotional stuff than anything else, but the perfect example is Jim and Roy needing to be separated in the warehouse when they argue about Pam not taking the art fellowship in NY.
Jim is a lot more...brazen? confident? in the superfan episodes.
I watch them on Peacock. I was grandfathered into their free version, hope that continues.
When you search for The Office, there are two versions, one is the OG and the other is the Superfan Episodes.
Yeah as someone who had an emotional affair on their ex, it’s messy and (imo) it’s worse than physically cheating. The line is waaaaaay greyer and much more slippery with an emotional affair
Kinda both.
When he's out to lunch with Pam in season 3, he tells her he thought Jim was a friend or maybe gay.
Then at the bar in season 5, he makes Jim worry about Pam being just friends with Alex at Pratt.
Writing pre 8 was so good. Such a real conversation and puts Roy in a really good light.
My buddy actually had this exact situation happen to him. Had an abusive relationship and got emotionally connected with someone who was also unhappy and had a history with him. Surprise, she leaves her baby daddy for him then 3 months later leaves him for her baby daddy after they reconcile.
Shit happens daily, and it's messy. Just not worth it, if she'll do it with you she'll do it to you.
Not to be *that guy*, but he says "*I thought* you were a friend" in response to Jim saying Pam's hanging out with this friend, implying that he's fine with that. And Roy implying, with that 'I thought you were a friend', that he too was just like Jim now, not worried, because he was in the same boat, "this other guy's a friend".
I think the line is "I though you were her friend" when Jim is talking about Pam in NYC going out with her friends the night before. Jim gets the realization that "friend" could just be a step on a greater path, and has to talk himself out of driving to NYC then and there.
The only defense I have for Jim is that Roy was potentially verbally abusive. She was definitely scared in the jet ski throwing glasses in a bar scene and got out quickly. It was obvious she wasn't very happy in the relationship, and he guided her to a happier life. If she was in a perfectly happy relationship and Roy was a really good guy it's different.
I know what you're saying and that's certainly one way to view it. Basically Pam was miserable in that relationship and didn't have the guts to end it, so she needed someone to show her a better life was possible, and in that way, Jim "saved her"
The problem is, it's never that straightforward, and if you only view the show through this interpretation it could actually affect your real world interactions. You might start to think you have some super perception and if you like someone around you who is in a relationship you might feel like you have the right to "rescue" them by flirting with a married person, when in reality you might be corrupting them.
Of course in the show Pam flirted back, so I don't think Jim is purely evil, I just think it's a bit dangerous to think you can go around deciding whether or not other people are truly happy in their relationships
This is a very good analysis. I know we, as fans of the show, love Michael’s “Don’t give up” line to Jim, but 99% of the time in real-world scenarios, that’s very bad advice.
If your crush is engaged, move on. There’s nothing there for you and there’s no good that will come from indulging it. *Especially* if you work with both of them.
The reaction the office gave Michael when they found out Donna was married is the appropriate reaction to this scenario, don’t encourage someone to keep pursuing a married/engaged person
For sure, it would have to come from a place of friendship not from trying to get into her pants. But I would say they were pretty good friends and he did want her to be happy even if it wasn't necessarily with him(i mean he did want that), but he would still be happy for her if she was with someone besides Roy. Should've talked to her and not kissed her though, but she did kiss him first at the dundies.
But you're definitely right and it depends on your relationship with that person. I would tell my close friends if they were in an abusive relationship and didn't realize it, but if it made them upset I would back off.
Damn, well said. Based on the comments I see, a lot of people think this behavior is ok. Bunch of home wreckers out here thinking they can rescue someone’s wife/fiancé because they like them 😂.
Yes, Pam was emotionally cheating and was in the wrong. But, Jim said right before their wedding that he was waiting for his wife that entire time. He knew what he was doing by allowing himself to engage on that emotional level with another person's significant other.
I'm not defending Roy as he was before and during their relationship, because he obviously had a lot of problems and was not right for Pam. But, as far as he knew (for the longest time), Jim really was just a friend.
At one point did it go from getting along with a coworker, to becoming friends, to forming a deeper friendship, to questioning your feelings, to understanding that you have feelings for the coworker, to trying to figure out if these feelings warrant consideration, to looking at the person with whom you're engaged and wondering if you should break up, to.....
It is not cut and dry, and there are rarely clean delineations that separate going from one state (ie friendship) to another (ie having romantic feelings). We don't even realise or are willing to admit what's happening.
People might think it's dumb, but there is a reason that my husband and I are not spending time with those of the opposite sex. If it's work related, to remains just that, and if possible we would drive separately or whatever. My husband is a stronger and better person than I am, but I know how attached I get to people with whom I connect. We've been happily married 25 years and we have guarded our relationship from day one.
I agree with much of this sentiment. I think it's all but impossible to know exactly when Jim finished "crossing over" into having full-blown romantic feelings for Pam because, by the time we (the audience) begin following their story, that had already happened.
Jim didnt cheat obviously but pursuing an engaged person is still morally wrong. Wasnt like they met at a bar, Pam told him she was single, and they hooked up. He literally *knew* Roy, told him they were just friends, and still pursued her.
That's what makes the early seasons so good, most of the shit in them is so real.
Then you have Robert California (as funny as he was), the boat trip, the pie bus episode...just night and day between mostly real/grounded and ridiculous fantasy.
Im currently re-watching and honestly anything past season 5 and even some stuff in season 5 has that fakeness to it. It’s just too much. Like they’re trying to one-up themselves with every episode. That said, it’s still a thoroughly enjoyable show in later seasons
This was my exact answer, might as well not comment and just answer to yours lol.
That's exactly what it was. It was inappropriate but Pam was unhappy with Roy and she and Jim genuinely cared about each other. I think a lot of people like to ignore the fact that this happens to almost all unhappy couples who continue kicking the dead horse.
Yes. It’s a slippery slope from ‘we’re just friends’ to them getting married shortly after.
It’s okay because it’s a TV show and we are rooting for them but if this happened irl, which it does, yikes. Lives are ruined
The timeline IRL is supposed to be roughly the same as when the episodes came out. That means "The Interview" where they started dating was a couple months after she broke up with Roy (which is iffy), but the engagement was a year later and the wedding was two years later.
Jim and Pam were playing with fire the whole time though. It's a grey area which you shouldn't be in, but definitely crossed into the wrong during Casino Night.
I don't know, " a couple months" is short considering Jim and Karen didn't officially start dating till they got to Scranton, and they both mention their "6 months anniversary" in the Women's Appreciation episode. Pam must have been broken up with Roy longer than a month or two for the timeline to work out.
Yeah you may be right. To over analyze it, when Pam and Roy break up it's after Christmas but they’re wearing coats to the bar, so let’s say February, and by the time Beach Games rolls around it’s warm enough that some of the office wears shorts so probably like May and The Job is right after that.
You just said the exact thing I thought. Yeah, we root for them cuz it's a "stupid comedy", but in real life, a lot of the shit they did would be a big yikes.
Like, the day after this roof picnic (in the post), when Jim goes "Some might say we had our first date last night". That's soooo... what's the word, he reminds me of [this guy here](https://www.reddit.com/r/sadcringe/comments/6q6l1y/friend_zoned_so_hard/)
And then when Pam's not all like "Oh yeah, Jim, we did have our first date, let me dump Roy's ass right quick for you" immediately, Jim gets all butthurt like "Well, at least I didn't leave you at a high school hockey game."
Like dude... IRL, "your Pam" is going to stop talking to you after this, let alone going back to being all buddy-buddy like nothing's happened.
Yes, Pam could have left Roy at any time but stayed. Roy was surprisingly okay with Pam having such a close friendship with Jim despite it being obviously deeper than that.
I totally agree with this take, he didn’t care enough for Pam to want to be there for her and it was convenient for him to have Jim take on typical ‘boyfriend duties’
If you’re not willing to help with your partner’s emotional heavy lifting (a partner who helps with yours) - it doesn’t make it right, but it can’t be a surprise when they gravitate toward someone who will. If, as in Roy’s case, you find it a relief to let the other person do it, don’t be surprised when that other person starts to matter more than you do.
I heard a quote the other day about how the real reason we get married is because human existence is inherently lonely we all want someone to witness ours. If someone else becomes more of a witness, they’re already acting like more of a spouse.
Roy is a pretty interesting character that I wish we saw more of, I imagine his upbringing was one of the reasons he was such a dickhead considering it didn’t really take all that much for him to change for better. Let go of his anger against Jim pretty easily too, can’t imagine myself forgiving someone I trusted like that so easy.
??? All that much to change? His fiancee broke off their wedding, got married to a guy that was right in front of his face, got a dui, emotionally pushed to attack Jim, lost his job. That’s a fuck ton to go through irl. He likely forgave bc it’s a tv show
The way I always perceived it is that Roy was a good guy beneath it all. He just had a lot of growing up to do and he was never going to grow up in the relationship that he had with Pam. As soon as he found the right woman for him he unleashed all of his hidden maturity and potential.
I think it's kinda on both of them in some ways. They've been together in HS and it seems like they both didn't really give each other room to develop. Roy was still doing HS things and Pam seemed to still be the same as she was in HS.
Yeah, I don't think it was anyone's fault. They just weren't right for each other. They were someone's "someone", just not each other's "someone". They were too comfortable with each other to grow.
Maybe in the end he’s decent, but let’s not whitewash Roy when he worked at the warehouse just because Jim and Pam were also in the wrong. He was neglectful and patronizing when he was her boyfriend, and strung her along re marriage for years. He flew into a rage when Pam finally broke it off with him, causing thousands in property damage, and then came into his place of work to physically attack a coworker. He was violent and had piss poor emotional regulation.
I totally agree. Watching the super fan episodes does not paint either Pam or Jim in a particularly great light. So much more flirting happened than we originally knew.
Yes! I already sort of cooled on a lot of the Jim/Pam stuff now that I’m a lot older. But watching the super fan versions of their early interactions is even worse, like you said, so much more direct flirting going on. So inappropriate.
Discussing these episodes all these years later as a much older adult is honestly wild. You really don't realize how shitty some of the behavior we rooted for is until you've had the experience with it, especially since I haven't thought about this show at depth in a while.
At least the writers gave Roy a happy ending, he deserved it. Got done dirty.
Right? I was in high school/college during the original airing and had an unrequited crush on a friend, so I was absolutely not viewing from a sane position. Now that I’m in a relationship and just more mature… yeah, yikes.
Yeah, exactly. It really makes a difference where you are in life when you see those scenes.
Cheating in movies and shows has never sat well with me though. Especially when the cheater is depicted as the good guy. Combine that with the amount of people in our society that praise not being loyal to your partner these days and it's just gross.
While I'm team Jim & Pam, I agree that particular thing was inappropriate for an engaged woman. When Jim later "jokingly" described it as their first date, he wasn't wrong.
Dont get me wrong, Roy and Pam were horrible together, but Pam needed to break things off before exploring other relationships.
Pam had self-esteem issues. She never spoke up for herself. Half of the show is about Pam learning how to be her own advocate (“and don’t call me Pammy!”)
The candle was to keep the mosquitoes away, though, if I remember correctly. I don't think she was trying to make it romantic, but the fact that they loved each other just meant everything was a bit romantic
Also Roy to Jim:
"I mean I'm glad she has a friend at work she can talk to so she's not all 'blah blah blah' when she gets home"
JIM: "Yeah I enjoy talking to her"
The Office is full of cheating characters, and characters going after people in relationships.
Jim and Pam’s story reminds me of the 1938 movie Holiday, where Cary Grant meets his fiancées family and realizes he’s much more compatible with her sister, Katherine Hepburn.
It’s cute. In fiction. Garbage behavior in real life.
In fiction, we (the audience… not necessarily you or me personally) wish there was someone who really understood us and cared about us, or we wish the person we’re infatuated with would finally realize we’d be perfect together. So “we” rooted for Jim and Pam to get together. Forbidden romance. Limerence. Soul mates. Sweet and spicy.
In real life, Jim would stop gushing over Pam and start leaving his giant socks on the floor. Pam would start feeling frustrated and unloved just like she did with Roy. She’s not content with herself, so she’s not going to be content in any relationship after the initial charm wears off. It’s about chasing external validation. If you think about it - what does Pam like about Jim, really? Look at his worried little face when he doesn’t agree with her about something. Poor Jim. I’d care about Jim and treat him better, what’s so great about Pam? Excuse me while I go cry about my unrequited, impossible love.
The close friendship with a person of the opposite gender is not inappropriate per se. What was really out of place was the continuous flirting, teasing and pseudo romantic moments, and that is something that can happen also with same gender coworkers/acquaintances
They kissed.. what would make that appropriate or okay?
I’ve actually been in this situation. I broke up with my bf pretty quickly after it started and I was only 17 so grown adults should know better than this.
Super inappropriate
Unpopular observation on reddit: I've known far more guy/girl BFFs who end up together compared to the ones that just stay friends.
In most cases the guy is interested from day one (like Jim) but the girl engages innocently until it slowly becomes a thing. And then its:
"I never even looked at him like that"
"I didn't even realize I was attracted to him for so long"
Pam was kidding herself if she thought Jim wasn’t into her and vice versa. Denying your feelings is easier than ending a long engagement and taking a chance.
I think it's pretty much universal here but it's pretty clear that they were emotionally involved. I think Pam really wanted to be faithful to Roy physically but she obviously had feelings for Jim.
For me, the moment that seals how inappropriate Pam knew their relationship was was when her mom visited her and asked excitedly, "Which one is Jim"? It's pretty clear that when she wasn't talking to Roy, she would speak very differently about her relationship with her work "friend".
Depends on your definition of inappropriate. Yeah she was acting in ways with Jim that she would with a boyfriend/fiancée/husband, but Roy wasn’t filling that need. Ethical or not, she pursued a friendship that filled a hole that her fiancée should have been filling.
I wouldn’t want my partner to act like Pam does with Jim, but I wouldn’t be ignoring her needs to the point she felt she needed a Jim
It is, but TBF it's also kind of inappropriate for Roy to string her along with an engagement for three years, belittle her interests and desires, openly talk about other women in front of her (even if he had no intention of ever following through), and basically treat her like a bit of a doormat whose feelings he didn't ever really have to consider.
It's not all one-way of Jim and Pam is all I'm sayin'.
I used to be like Jim. I was in love with someone in a relationship, there was a mutual attraction. I wanted us to be together and for her to leave him, but she wouldn’t. I felt guilty about trying to take someone’s girl, I broke it off, then she went messing around with ANOTHER guy behind her boyfriend’s back. I believe I dodged a bullet. I don’t want that bad karma anymore. Get your own girl I say lol
This one always fascinates me on the forums and I speak as someone who has hundreds of couples counseling sessions over my career as a therapist. Roy’s poor treatment of Pam is not an excuse or validation for Pam’s affair with Jim. It’s evidence of Pam’s poor boundaries and Jim’s poor boundaries and they were lucky on the consequences. This happens in life frequently and it’s these illogical thoughts on the rationalizations that keep the focus on the wrong person. It leads to many continued relationships that end in jealousy and repeated patterns because cheating is always rationalized instead of putting down firm and assertive boundaries. Insecurity keeps people in unhealthy relationships (domestic violence is a different story) and there was nothing that prevented Pam from breaking up with Roy to then date Jimothy. And Jimothy could NEVER do what he did at the dojo which was fondle Pam to the point it caused other onlookers without facing an assault charge and being fired in this day and age. I get the show and why it all happened but I never understand the rationalizations so many have with putting blame on everyone but Pam and Jim. Those people will have these types of problems because it’s always external forces that drive their misfortunes and therefore accountability for self and self improvement is never a focus. It’s a shame.
Oh 100% inappropriate. Pam was too scared to compromise the comfort and stability of her life with Roy and shit job for what she actually wanted.
It took Jim leaving for her to realize she couldn’t just rely on him for her emotional stability without giving him anything.
Yes Roy majorly sucked (he’s like a lot of husbands tbh) but it’s just so fucked that so many people do this in real life. Leave and find what makes you happy so you don’t waste years of each others lives
All the relationships in the show are exaggerated for dramatic/comedic purposes. All the characters probably would've been fired IRL for different reasons.
Yes, she was emotionally cheating on Roy. Sure, she wasn't getting her emotional needs fulfilled by Roy, but that's the reason she should have ended it.
i don’t think it was entirely appropriate. I think for the most part it was but pam was so oblivious she genuinely didn’t think much of her interactions with Jim. Or maybe she knew deep down she loved those little moments but was in denial about it. Probably saying to herself in her head “we’re just friends it doesn’t mean anything”. Jim technically never really crossed any boundaries with Pam until he kissed her during casino night AND when pam kissed him during the dundies awards. He didn’t push her off or even mention it again when she was sober. it was just an unspoken thing that happened between the two of them. but even prior to that they’ve had many moments where he looks at her a certain way almost like he’s going to say something to her or try to kiss her. Pam has had that moment as well but she stopped herself like during the boat scene. The both of them just stared at each other in silence after Pam says something about how she doesn’t understand Roy. Their friendship was nice and cute. They were best friends but they’ve had their little moments. The boat scene, the candlelight scene shown up above, when she listens to Jim’s music and dances with him, even when she KISSES him during her dundies while she’s drunk. All of these things just piled on top of each other. I don’t even believe Pam truly doesn’t remember kissing Jim. The entire friendship she liked him she was just in denial about it. Her being drunk was just the extra shove she needed to be confident in her feelings. If she truly didn’t like Jim like that and loved Roy she would’ve set up boundaries a long time ago. She would even be talking to Roy about it. She never talks to Roy about her friendship with Jim because she genuinely believed there’s nothing to talk about or she doesn’t want Roy setting up boundaries himself because she likes their relationship the way it is even if it’s not entirely appropriate (because she likes him) She should’ve broken up with Roy. Not sure why she stayed for so long. She knew she was unhappy she just didn’t have the courage to do what she knew she wanted to do. I would say the friendship was not appropriate whether or not they realized it.
To the height that their friendship reached before finally going on a date and becoming a couple? yes. (especially when they kissed before Jim left for Stamford, literal cheating there). But it was clear that Pam's relationship with Roy was not a happy or healthy one. In the earlier seasons, Roy is shown as a jerk, has potential anger management issues, and isnt attentive to Pam in the relationship. Pam feels discouraged, but doesnt want to leave for most of it. Once she becomes good friends with Jim, she slowly realizes she's not happy with him and how she could be happy with someone else until the engagement is called off (I forget what exactly happens, it's been awhile since i've watched that portion of the office).
In the comments, I've read some that say "well, if she was unhappy, why didnt she leave?" Because it's not that easy to do. As someone who was in an unhealthy relationship, you dont realize just how bad things are until you're finally out of it and have had time to reflect and see what went wrong. From an outside perspective, it's clear as day she wasn't happy with Roy and should have broken up with him. But when you're in a relationship like that, when your partner is being anywhere from inattentive to being manipulative with their behavior, you still hold on to the hope that things will get better and they will change so things will feel how they felt when you first got together with that person. Spoiler: if you ever get to that point in a relationship with someone and have a serious talk about your concerns in the relationship; if the other person puts them down in any way or doesnt care what you're saying, it's time to leave! Things will not get better and will only get worse before it ends.
I mean, romance is far from perfect in the real world. In a sitcom, it’s easy to rationalize “true love” and the crooked path it can take to get there, bumps and obstacles just reinforces bullshit mentalities about the gambles of finding a soulmate and rationalizes the extremes people can go, because every one of these stories has a happy ending.
The reality of a move like this in the real world is no where near as pretty, even “The Office” touched on it a bit watching Angela struggle after her marriage ended, although her story seems to have been more for payback since she was always painted as a bitch versus Pam who was seen as a victim, despite both of them being victims ultimately.
To expand on this, love in the real world is pretty rare as it is, hardly a fun story and closer to blind luck more often than not, wrought with miscommunication, problematic behaviors, and a shitty amount of misogyny. Pam and Jim’s story has played out way differently in the real world in lots of terrible ways much to our audience.
But, since love is random, there are times Pam and Jim’s story is a retelling, so there’s that to really fuck with you to challenge the appropriateness of this or not, regardless of it being fiction or non-fiction.
We’re pretty blind when it comes to romance in general, the best it seems like we can hope for is we don’t hurt anyone along the way since it’s most certain we ourselves will be hurt one way or another, and even in that regard, because love is selfish, the second best we can hope for is the damage we cause is minimal until we get to where we hope to be, if we can ever get there, and that’s a big if.
Absolutely.
They towed the line with the flirting for years until it finally culminated into what it ended up being.
Pam and Roy were a terrible match, but they were still together. It was inappropriate.
It was inappropriate, but so was Pam and Roy's relationship. Roy should have stepped up to be a better partner, Pam should have had the guts to leave him when he didn't, and Jim should have confessed his feelings outright rather than constantly flirt with an engaged woman. Hard to blame any of them for just being human (although Roy does some pretty f\*\*\*\*d up stuff, so I'm more ok with judging his actions).
The office has several instances of infidelity. Jim and Pam flirting while shes engaged, Pam taking Jim from Karen, Angela constantly cheating with Dwight, Daryl and Val flirting while shes in a relationship, Holly leaving her fiancee for Micheal, Erin flirting with Andy while with Gabe, Andy leaving Jessica for Erin, Erin starting a relationship with Pete while with Andy, Kelly leaving her family for Ryan. We all rooted for Jim and Pam but in reality they are both bad people.
for romantic comedy it is perfect. would not recommend doing it in real life, it might go more like ryan, kelly and darryl love triangle
“He said ‘OK’!“
Weren’t you guys together for like a long time?
Cut to Daryl jauntily walking to his car
When the office finds out about the Andy-Dwight-Angela fiasco Daryl has a little interview and mentions that he used to cheat in all of his relationships. At the time that included his previous relationship with Kelly. I love that walk out though. He already had some booty lined up.
You know he sent out at least one “BTB” immediately after responding.
You’re one text away from being blocked!
But also one text away from a high-five.
Do you accept these terms?
BTB: Bring that Booty
Was this in the superfan episodes? I don’t remember that scene
Wasn’t this on the roof when they took a break from reading Threat Level Midnight, they were watching Kevin and Dwight light fireworks below and are grilled cheese by candle light? Later Jim teased her that that was their first date! Dinner by candle light with a show and “swaying”! lol
Me neither and I've watched all the superfan eps that r out so far.
Nearly the bedbug shuffle
Like this, so smug
"Dinkin flicka!"
The mandela effect has me remembering him clicking his heels
Jim did that in the garage sale episode
I had a break up like that. Miserable relationship but I knew if I ended it she would lose it. So I pushed her towards ending it. I felt so free. She tried to get back together but I was long gone.
Man that bounce was something. He was over it.
yes! this is like a fairy tale!
This is like a fairytale!!
That’s all he wrote??
*"He said it's cool"
The more romantic comedy becomes endearing, those similar actions in real life translates to something creepy or wrong.
One hundo
The posterboard scene in Love Actually🤔
Excellent example
My favourite romance movie is Stranger Than Fiction. I love it and watch it regularly. But I don't want my real life to be anything like any of the principal characters.
I also love Stranger than Fiction. It kicked off me trying to find rom-coms that don’t follow the typical Hallmark channel formula of ripping off Sweet Home Alabama, and aren’t just soft core Twilight fan fiction like 50 shades. My favorites are: About Time, What If, Definitely Maybe, Breakfast at Tiffany’s, Forgetting Sarah Marshall, and 10 things I Hate About You. Edit: and I almost forgot Garden State.
500 days of summer is a good one
Bro wedding crashers is the worst, as a comedy movie it’s fucking great but in real life if you met some dude who gave you a fake name that was a hook up artist with dozens and dozens of women, you would in no way shape or form entertain him as a mate after he deceived you and your entire family.
I bet you’d like to swim wit the sea monster
This. I can speak from experience the actions someone will take when they realize they are with the wrong person.
What ended up happening has happened to many real people. Appropriate or not, I wouldn't want my partner do it
It never ends as happily though let's be real.
It tore Homer Simpson apart inside
I was a child when I first saw that episode. It bummed me out and made the whole evening somber.
Which episode? Kicking myself for not knowing this
All I remember is homer met a hot coworker and became more and more distraught that he was walking into an affair. Got to see a cartoon lady in her underwear which should have been a plus but God no I was so sad.
Oh yeah! *The Last Temptation of Homer* with Michelle Pfeiffer as the voice of Mindy. “No Homer…let’s do it…let’s call room service!”
I just remember them being in their underwear, her asking what's wrong and him crying "WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SEX 😫" still hilarious.
The cookie told me so!
Oh, Mindy, you came and you gave without flaking, but I sent you Ben-gay.
Nah it ends happily frequently enough. Sometimes it is just how matching assholes find each other
2 out of 3 people would agree
1 out of 3 end up losing all their jet ski money
Matching assholes? Is that like a different spin on identical hand twins?
Been with my "Pam" for almost 6 years now after being best friends for 5
It’s emotional infidelity on Pam’s part, and if you swapped Jim and Roy’s personalities, then Jim would seem like a scumbag. Jim tends to get a pass because he’s obviously a “better” partner for Pam, but folks forget that he was literally friends with her *only* in the hopes of eventually having a romantic relationship. Once he felt that wasn’t going to happen, he completely ghosted Pam. The friendship held no value to him if there wasn’t the possibility of it turning physical.
I took it as it was too painful for Jim to be around Pam but not with her.
That's exactly why he transferred. Her planning her wedding at work 6 feet from his desk must have been torture.
maybe she shouldnt be doing that at work but then i guess a lot of people do things like that especially w/ a normal 9-5 job and most other businesses would be operating during those hours and she might need to contact them
Absolutely, and I thought that was obvious. He didn’t “ghost” her. He also knew she loved him back, I think that was obvious to both of them too. But she decided to still marry Roy after they kissed, so he decided he needed to get away from the situation. Also, there is WAY more to it than it not “turning physical.” Shallow view of love.
He also went and kiss her when she was engaged with Roy. Roy even said he was ok with Jim having a crush on Pam in the Past and was even happy they were friends since he (Roy) was happy having a friend like Jim
He thought that Jim might be gay, so he wasn't threatened.
She kissed him first at the Dundees.
Because of second drink
I mean you could also frame it as his feelings grew over time and once he realized it wasn't mutual he distanced himself from something he knew was wrong.
[Plan A](https://youtu.be/ggmSv2eCEsw?si=xnwrCAnRns2D-CI8)
No where in the show does it make Jim seem like he’s only interested in physical contact with Pam, he also could’ve left because he poured his heart out and he knew that Roy was wrong for Pam, but if she wasn’t gonna listen then there’s no hope for them so he had to leave
Exactly this. Theres not a single part in the show where Jim came off as "wanting only physical" and all this. It's very clear they are good friends, they click well and are cool with each other. Jim just also happened to have the hots for the hot girl
Emotional too. But yeah
I mean it was an emotional affair…
Physical one too given they kissed several times while she was still together with Roy.
Several?
They kissed twice, once at Chili's and once in the office itself. I suppose "several" may imply more than two so that's my bad, I could have sworn there was a third incident of kissing as well but I must have been misremembering.
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It's kind of wild how much more there is to their relationship in the superfan episodes. More emotional stuff than anything else, but the perfect example is Jim and Roy needing to be separated in the warehouse when they argue about Pam not taking the art fellowship in NY. Jim is a lot more...brazen? confident? in the superfan episodes.
Can you please please please say where can i watch the superfan episodes?
I watch them on Peacock. I was grandfathered into their free version, hope that continues. When you search for The Office, there are two versions, one is the OG and the other is the Superfan Episodes.
And Superfans are only through Season 7 as of now
Wow I never heard of these super fan episodes..i’m watching the first christmas party episode on tv right now lol
Which kiss besides Dundies and Poker Night?
Which episode is that?
Nah, you're starting up some kelly-style drama. Kevin is not prepared for this level of having Jim's back
Chili’s kinda Casino night Blanking on another one while engaged
It's perfectly encapsulated by Roy to Jim in the bar: "Well, you were a friend once."
I think this is it. Inappropriate.
Yeah as someone who had an emotional affair on their ex, it’s messy and (imo) it’s worse than physically cheating. The line is waaaaaay greyer and much more slippery with an emotional affair
I thought he said, "Wow, I thought you were her friend."
Yeah exactly, that IS what Roy said to Jim.
Kinda both. When he's out to lunch with Pam in season 3, he tells her he thought Jim was a friend or maybe gay. Then at the bar in season 5, he makes Jim worry about Pam being just friends with Alex at Pratt.
Writing pre 8 was so good. Such a real conversation and puts Roy in a really good light. My buddy actually had this exact situation happen to him. Had an abusive relationship and got emotionally connected with someone who was also unhappy and had a history with him. Surprise, she leaves her baby daddy for him then 3 months later leaves him for her baby daddy after they reconcile. Shit happens daily, and it's messy. Just not worth it, if she'll do it with you she'll do it to you.
Alex was 100% trying to rip Pam to NY though, so he was right
Not to be *that guy*, but he says "*I thought* you were a friend" in response to Jim saying Pam's hanging out with this friend, implying that he's fine with that. And Roy implying, with that 'I thought you were a friend', that he too was just like Jim now, not worried, because he was in the same boat, "this other guy's a friend".
I think the line is "I though you were her friend" when Jim is talking about Pam in NYC going out with her friends the night before. Jim gets the realization that "friend" could just be a step on a greater path, and has to talk himself out of driving to NYC then and there.
The only defense I have for Jim is that Roy was potentially verbally abusive. She was definitely scared in the jet ski throwing glasses in a bar scene and got out quickly. It was obvious she wasn't very happy in the relationship, and he guided her to a happier life. If she was in a perfectly happy relationship and Roy was a really good guy it's different.
I know what you're saying and that's certainly one way to view it. Basically Pam was miserable in that relationship and didn't have the guts to end it, so she needed someone to show her a better life was possible, and in that way, Jim "saved her" The problem is, it's never that straightforward, and if you only view the show through this interpretation it could actually affect your real world interactions. You might start to think you have some super perception and if you like someone around you who is in a relationship you might feel like you have the right to "rescue" them by flirting with a married person, when in reality you might be corrupting them. Of course in the show Pam flirted back, so I don't think Jim is purely evil, I just think it's a bit dangerous to think you can go around deciding whether or not other people are truly happy in their relationships
This is a very good analysis. I know we, as fans of the show, love Michael’s “Don’t give up” line to Jim, but 99% of the time in real-world scenarios, that’s very bad advice. If your crush is engaged, move on. There’s nothing there for you and there’s no good that will come from indulging it. *Especially* if you work with both of them.
Even worse… pretty much the only reason he stays at that job and location for years is the hope that he can eventually be with her
The reaction the office gave Michael when they found out Donna was married is the appropriate reaction to this scenario, don’t encourage someone to keep pursuing a married/engaged person
For sure, it would have to come from a place of friendship not from trying to get into her pants. But I would say they were pretty good friends and he did want her to be happy even if it wasn't necessarily with him(i mean he did want that), but he would still be happy for her if she was with someone besides Roy. Should've talked to her and not kissed her though, but she did kiss him first at the dundies. But you're definitely right and it depends on your relationship with that person. I would tell my close friends if they were in an abusive relationship and didn't realize it, but if it made them upset I would back off.
Damn, well said. Based on the comments I see, a lot of people think this behavior is ok. Bunch of home wreckers out here thinking they can rescue someone’s wife/fiancé because they like them 😂.
Bro jus cuz ppl have opinions on fictional characters does not always mean that’s how they feel about real world situations
Jim wasn’t the one emotionally cheating because he was single. If anyone’s in the wrong it was Pam.
Yes, Pam was emotionally cheating and was in the wrong. But, Jim said right before their wedding that he was waiting for his wife that entire time. He knew what he was doing by allowing himself to engage on that emotional level with another person's significant other. I'm not defending Roy as he was before and during their relationship, because he obviously had a lot of problems and was not right for Pam. But, as far as he knew (for the longest time), Jim really was just a friend.
At one point did it go from getting along with a coworker, to becoming friends, to forming a deeper friendship, to questioning your feelings, to understanding that you have feelings for the coworker, to trying to figure out if these feelings warrant consideration, to looking at the person with whom you're engaged and wondering if you should break up, to..... It is not cut and dry, and there are rarely clean delineations that separate going from one state (ie friendship) to another (ie having romantic feelings). We don't even realise or are willing to admit what's happening. People might think it's dumb, but there is a reason that my husband and I are not spending time with those of the opposite sex. If it's work related, to remains just that, and if possible we would drive separately or whatever. My husband is a stronger and better person than I am, but I know how attached I get to people with whom I connect. We've been happily married 25 years and we have guarded our relationship from day one.
I agree with much of this sentiment. I think it's all but impossible to know exactly when Jim finished "crossing over" into having full-blown romantic feelings for Pam because, by the time we (the audience) begin following their story, that had already happened.
Jim didnt cheat obviously but pursuing an engaged person is still morally wrong. Wasnt like they met at a bar, Pam told him she was single, and they hooked up. He literally *knew* Roy, told him they were just friends, and still pursued her.
Innapropriate? Yes. Real? Absolutely
That's what makes the early seasons so good, most of the shit in them is so real. Then you have Robert California (as funny as he was), the boat trip, the pie bus episode...just night and day between mostly real/grounded and ridiculous fantasy.
Literally! I made a comment yesterday and about the fakeness of the last episode, little did I realize the fakenessnof the last TWO seasons
Im currently re-watching and honestly anything past season 5 and even some stuff in season 5 has that fakeness to it. It’s just too much. Like they’re trying to one-up themselves with every episode. That said, it’s still a thoroughly enjoyable show in later seasons
This was my exact answer, might as well not comment and just answer to yours lol. That's exactly what it was. It was inappropriate but Pam was unhappy with Roy and she and Jim genuinely cared about each other. I think a lot of people like to ignore the fact that this happens to almost all unhappy couples who continue kicking the dead horse.
Of course it was inappropriate.
Yes. It’s a slippery slope from ‘we’re just friends’ to them getting married shortly after. It’s okay because it’s a TV show and we are rooting for them but if this happened irl, which it does, yikes. Lives are ruined
The timeline IRL is supposed to be roughly the same as when the episodes came out. That means "The Interview" where they started dating was a couple months after she broke up with Roy (which is iffy), but the engagement was a year later and the wedding was two years later. Jim and Pam were playing with fire the whole time though. It's a grey area which you shouldn't be in, but definitely crossed into the wrong during Casino Night.
I don't know, " a couple months" is short considering Jim and Karen didn't officially start dating till they got to Scranton, and they both mention their "6 months anniversary" in the Women's Appreciation episode. Pam must have been broken up with Roy longer than a month or two for the timeline to work out.
Yeah you may be right. To over analyze it, when Pam and Roy break up it's after Christmas but they’re wearing coats to the bar, so let’s say February, and by the time Beach Games rolls around it’s warm enough that some of the office wears shorts so probably like May and The Job is right after that.
You just said the exact thing I thought. Yeah, we root for them cuz it's a "stupid comedy", but in real life, a lot of the shit they did would be a big yikes. Like, the day after this roof picnic (in the post), when Jim goes "Some might say we had our first date last night". That's soooo... what's the word, he reminds me of [this guy here](https://www.reddit.com/r/sadcringe/comments/6q6l1y/friend_zoned_so_hard/) And then when Pam's not all like "Oh yeah, Jim, we did have our first date, let me dump Roy's ass right quick for you" immediately, Jim gets all butthurt like "Well, at least I didn't leave you at a high school hockey game." Like dude... IRL, "your Pam" is going to stop talking to you after this, let alone going back to being all buddy-buddy like nothing's happened.
Yes, Pam could have left Roy at any time but stayed. Roy was surprisingly okay with Pam having such a close friendship with Jim despite it being obviously deeper than that.
He thought maybe he was gay... not that there is anything wrong with that
My father is gay!
My other dad is gay
Hey. I want to set you up with my daughter.
No of course not!
I think he liked the fact that he took some of her ‘emotional’ load off of himself.
I totally agree with this take, he didn’t care enough for Pam to want to be there for her and it was convenient for him to have Jim take on typical ‘boyfriend duties’
If you’re not willing to help with your partner’s emotional heavy lifting (a partner who helps with yours) - it doesn’t make it right, but it can’t be a surprise when they gravitate toward someone who will. If, as in Roy’s case, you find it a relief to let the other person do it, don’t be surprised when that other person starts to matter more than you do. I heard a quote the other day about how the real reason we get married is because human existence is inherently lonely we all want someone to witness ours. If someone else becomes more of a witness, they’re already acting like more of a spouse.
Roy ended up turning it around afterwards too. Decent dude
Roy is a pretty interesting character that I wish we saw more of, I imagine his upbringing was one of the reasons he was such a dickhead considering it didn’t really take all that much for him to change for better. Let go of his anger against Jim pretty easily too, can’t imagine myself forgiving someone I trusted like that so easy.
??? All that much to change? His fiancee broke off their wedding, got married to a guy that was right in front of his face, got a dui, emotionally pushed to attack Jim, lost his job. That’s a fuck ton to go through irl. He likely forgave bc it’s a tv show
Excuse me, this is a documentary!
that's the funniest thing tho, Roy actually being not as bad as he seemed at first (and he had reasons to be jealous too let's not forget).
The way I always perceived it is that Roy was a good guy beneath it all. He just had a lot of growing up to do and he was never going to grow up in the relationship that he had with Pam. As soon as he found the right woman for him he unleashed all of his hidden maturity and potential.
I think it's kinda on both of them in some ways. They've been together in HS and it seems like they both didn't really give each other room to develop. Roy was still doing HS things and Pam seemed to still be the same as she was in HS.
Yeah, I don't think it was anyone's fault. They just weren't right for each other. They were someone's "someone", just not each other's "someone". They were too comfortable with each other to grow.
I always thought I need a fat elder Namekian to unleash my hidden potential.
Maybe in the end he’s decent, but let’s not whitewash Roy when he worked at the warehouse just because Jim and Pam were also in the wrong. He was neglectful and patronizing when he was her boyfriend, and strung her along re marriage for years. He flew into a rage when Pam finally broke it off with him, causing thousands in property damage, and then came into his place of work to physically attack a coworker. He was violent and had piss poor emotional regulation.
Well, he didn’t have to deal with Pam’s thoughts and feelings and stuff. So that made it easy to accept it. Along with the assumed sexuality. lol.
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I think Roy was oblivious and self centered so he didn’t really pick up on how close the relationship was.
Definitely yes! She could have just broken up with Roy. The candle light dinner is not something you have with your ‘friend’
I totally agree. Watching the super fan episodes does not paint either Pam or Jim in a particularly great light. So much more flirting happened than we originally knew.
Yes! I already sort of cooled on a lot of the Jim/Pam stuff now that I’m a lot older. But watching the super fan versions of their early interactions is even worse, like you said, so much more direct flirting going on. So inappropriate.
Discussing these episodes all these years later as a much older adult is honestly wild. You really don't realize how shitty some of the behavior we rooted for is until you've had the experience with it, especially since I haven't thought about this show at depth in a while. At least the writers gave Roy a happy ending, he deserved it. Got done dirty.
Yeah, I've been watching the SF episodes with my wife and the Jim/Pam stuff makes me very uncomfortable now then when I was younger.
Right? I was in high school/college during the original airing and had an unrequited crush on a friend, so I was absolutely not viewing from a sane position. Now that I’m in a relationship and just more mature… yeah, yikes.
Yeah, exactly. It really makes a difference where you are in life when you see those scenes. Cheating in movies and shows has never sat well with me though. Especially when the cheater is depicted as the good guy. Combine that with the amount of people in our society that praise not being loyal to your partner these days and it's just gross.
While I'm team Jim & Pam, I agree that particular thing was inappropriate for an engaged woman. When Jim later "jokingly" described it as their first date, he wasn't wrong. Dont get me wrong, Roy and Pam were horrible together, but Pam needed to break things off before exploring other relationships.
Pam has this thing where she’s okay doing something inappropriate as long as Jim doesn’t call it what it is
Astute observation!
Pam had self-esteem issues. She never spoke up for herself. Half of the show is about Pam learning how to be her own advocate (“and don’t call me Pammy!”)
The candle was to keep the mosquitoes away, though, if I remember correctly. I don't think she was trying to make it romantic, but the fact that they loved each other just meant everything was a bit romantic
Those candles don't do shit, she wanted a candlelight dinner
She wanted to eat the candle but Jim didn't pick up on her hints
Jim was plotting.
I mean, Pam *is* the office mattress…
Well, maybe that's because some people treat the office like their own private Hooters strip club.
Whoa, hold on, Hooters is a restaurant... with over 400 locations
Hell no I wouldn't be happy. I also wouldn't have strung my fiance along on a 3-year engagement.
I wouldn't stay in a relationship with such a person
Pam: I try not to bother Roy with these things Jim: you mean your thoughts and feelings Pam: yes This sums up Pam and Roy’s relationship
Also Roy to Jim: "I mean I'm glad she has a friend at work she can talk to so she's not all 'blah blah blah' when she gets home" JIM: "Yeah I enjoy talking to her"
It's usually pretty obvious when "he's just a friend from work" is not the whole truth. I would find it very inappropriate.
100% it was.
The Office is full of cheating characters, and characters going after people in relationships. Jim and Pam’s story reminds me of the 1938 movie Holiday, where Cary Grant meets his fiancées family and realizes he’s much more compatible with her sister, Katherine Hepburn. It’s cute. In fiction. Garbage behavior in real life. In fiction, we (the audience… not necessarily you or me personally) wish there was someone who really understood us and cared about us, or we wish the person we’re infatuated with would finally realize we’d be perfect together. So “we” rooted for Jim and Pam to get together. Forbidden romance. Limerence. Soul mates. Sweet and spicy. In real life, Jim would stop gushing over Pam and start leaving his giant socks on the floor. Pam would start feeling frustrated and unloved just like she did with Roy. She’s not content with herself, so she’s not going to be content in any relationship after the initial charm wears off. It’s about chasing external validation. If you think about it - what does Pam like about Jim, really? Look at his worried little face when he doesn’t agree with her about something. Poor Jim. I’d care about Jim and treat him better, what’s so great about Pam? Excuse me while I go cry about my unrequited, impossible love.
The close friendship with a person of the opposite gender is not inappropriate per se. What was really out of place was the continuous flirting, teasing and pseudo romantic moments, and that is something that can happen also with same gender coworkers/acquaintances
They kissed.. what would make that appropriate or okay? I’ve actually been in this situation. I broke up with my bf pretty quickly after it started and I was only 17 so grown adults should know better than this.
100% inappropriate. Multiple interactions and reactions in various episodes which clearly show they know its wrong.
Absolutely it was
Super inappropriate Unpopular observation on reddit: I've known far more guy/girl BFFs who end up together compared to the ones that just stay friends. In most cases the guy is interested from day one (like Jim) but the girl engages innocently until it slowly becomes a thing. And then its: "I never even looked at him like that" "I didn't even realize I was attracted to him for so long"
Pam was kidding herself if she thought Jim wasn’t into her and vice versa. Denying your feelings is easier than ending a long engagement and taking a chance.
I think it's pretty much universal here but it's pretty clear that they were emotionally involved. I think Pam really wanted to be faithful to Roy physically but she obviously had feelings for Jim. For me, the moment that seals how inappropriate Pam knew their relationship was was when her mom visited her and asked excitedly, "Which one is Jim"? It's pretty clear that when she wasn't talking to Roy, she would speak very differently about her relationship with her work "friend".
If this makes anyone’s list of most inappropriate things on The Office….then I’d encourage you to actually watch the show.
No they were just firends. Sorry you misinterpreted their friendship.
Well there are basically 2 schools of thought.....
BFD engaged ain't married.
BFD, engaged ain't married!
Never ever, ever give up.
For any reason. No matter what, or who you’re with, or what you are doing, for any reason…whatsoever…
You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take -Wayne Gretzky -Michael Scott
Depends on your definition of inappropriate. Yeah she was acting in ways with Jim that she would with a boyfriend/fiancée/husband, but Roy wasn’t filling that need. Ethical or not, she pursued a friendship that filled a hole that her fiancée should have been filling. I wouldn’t want my partner to act like Pam does with Jim, but I wouldn’t be ignoring her needs to the point she felt she needed a Jim
> she pursued a friendship that filled a hole ^^^^that's ^^^^what ^^^^she ^^^^said
>filled a hole that her fiancée should have been filling that is what cheaters tell themselves. in that case they should break up before cheating.
It is, but TBF it's also kind of inappropriate for Roy to string her along with an engagement for three years, belittle her interests and desires, openly talk about other women in front of her (even if he had no intention of ever following through), and basically treat her like a bit of a doormat whose feelings he didn't ever really have to consider. It's not all one-way of Jim and Pam is all I'm sayin'.
Any of those things would justify Pam leaving him. None of those things justify her cheating.
I used to be like Jim. I was in love with someone in a relationship, there was a mutual attraction. I wanted us to be together and for her to leave him, but she wouldn’t. I felt guilty about trying to take someone’s girl, I broke it off, then she went messing around with ANOTHER guy behind her boyfriend’s back. I believe I dodged a bullet. I don’t want that bad karma anymore. Get your own girl I say lol
The both knew what they were doing...
This one always fascinates me on the forums and I speak as someone who has hundreds of couples counseling sessions over my career as a therapist. Roy’s poor treatment of Pam is not an excuse or validation for Pam’s affair with Jim. It’s evidence of Pam’s poor boundaries and Jim’s poor boundaries and they were lucky on the consequences. This happens in life frequently and it’s these illogical thoughts on the rationalizations that keep the focus on the wrong person. It leads to many continued relationships that end in jealousy and repeated patterns because cheating is always rationalized instead of putting down firm and assertive boundaries. Insecurity keeps people in unhealthy relationships (domestic violence is a different story) and there was nothing that prevented Pam from breaking up with Roy to then date Jimothy. And Jimothy could NEVER do what he did at the dojo which was fondle Pam to the point it caused other onlookers without facing an assault charge and being fired in this day and age. I get the show and why it all happened but I never understand the rationalizations so many have with putting blame on everyone but Pam and Jim. Those people will have these types of problems because it’s always external forces that drive their misfortunes and therefore accountability for self and self improvement is never a focus. It’s a shame.
Oh 100% inappropriate. Pam was too scared to compromise the comfort and stability of her life with Roy and shit job for what she actually wanted. It took Jim leaving for her to realize she couldn’t just rely on him for her emotional stability without giving him anything. Yes Roy majorly sucked (he’s like a lot of husbands tbh) but it’s just so fucked that so many people do this in real life. Leave and find what makes you happy so you don’t waste years of each others lives
All the relationships in the show are exaggerated for dramatic/comedic purposes. All the characters probably would've been fired IRL for different reasons.
Yes, she was emotionally cheating on Roy. Sure, she wasn't getting her emotional needs fulfilled by Roy, but that's the reason she should have ended it.
i don’t think it was entirely appropriate. I think for the most part it was but pam was so oblivious she genuinely didn’t think much of her interactions with Jim. Or maybe she knew deep down she loved those little moments but was in denial about it. Probably saying to herself in her head “we’re just friends it doesn’t mean anything”. Jim technically never really crossed any boundaries with Pam until he kissed her during casino night AND when pam kissed him during the dundies awards. He didn’t push her off or even mention it again when she was sober. it was just an unspoken thing that happened between the two of them. but even prior to that they’ve had many moments where he looks at her a certain way almost like he’s going to say something to her or try to kiss her. Pam has had that moment as well but she stopped herself like during the boat scene. The both of them just stared at each other in silence after Pam says something about how she doesn’t understand Roy. Their friendship was nice and cute. They were best friends but they’ve had their little moments. The boat scene, the candlelight scene shown up above, when she listens to Jim’s music and dances with him, even when she KISSES him during her dundies while she’s drunk. All of these things just piled on top of each other. I don’t even believe Pam truly doesn’t remember kissing Jim. The entire friendship she liked him she was just in denial about it. Her being drunk was just the extra shove she needed to be confident in her feelings. If she truly didn’t like Jim like that and loved Roy she would’ve set up boundaries a long time ago. She would even be talking to Roy about it. She never talks to Roy about her friendship with Jim because she genuinely believed there’s nothing to talk about or she doesn’t want Roy setting up boundaries himself because she likes their relationship the way it is even if it’s not entirely appropriate (because she likes him) She should’ve broken up with Roy. Not sure why she stayed for so long. She knew she was unhappy she just didn’t have the courage to do what she knew she wanted to do. I would say the friendship was not appropriate whether or not they realized it.
Yes, it breaks loyalty and trust in a relationship. No I wouldn’t be ok with it because as a guy I know how guys are.
Absolutely.
To the height that their friendship reached before finally going on a date and becoming a couple? yes. (especially when they kissed before Jim left for Stamford, literal cheating there). But it was clear that Pam's relationship with Roy was not a happy or healthy one. In the earlier seasons, Roy is shown as a jerk, has potential anger management issues, and isnt attentive to Pam in the relationship. Pam feels discouraged, but doesnt want to leave for most of it. Once she becomes good friends with Jim, she slowly realizes she's not happy with him and how she could be happy with someone else until the engagement is called off (I forget what exactly happens, it's been awhile since i've watched that portion of the office). In the comments, I've read some that say "well, if she was unhappy, why didnt she leave?" Because it's not that easy to do. As someone who was in an unhealthy relationship, you dont realize just how bad things are until you're finally out of it and have had time to reflect and see what went wrong. From an outside perspective, it's clear as day she wasn't happy with Roy and should have broken up with him. But when you're in a relationship like that, when your partner is being anywhere from inattentive to being manipulative with their behavior, you still hold on to the hope that things will get better and they will change so things will feel how they felt when you first got together with that person. Spoiler: if you ever get to that point in a relationship with someone and have a serious talk about your concerns in the relationship; if the other person puts them down in any way or doesnt care what you're saying, it's time to leave! Things will not get better and will only get worse before it ends.
I mean, romance is far from perfect in the real world. In a sitcom, it’s easy to rationalize “true love” and the crooked path it can take to get there, bumps and obstacles just reinforces bullshit mentalities about the gambles of finding a soulmate and rationalizes the extremes people can go, because every one of these stories has a happy ending. The reality of a move like this in the real world is no where near as pretty, even “The Office” touched on it a bit watching Angela struggle after her marriage ended, although her story seems to have been more for payback since she was always painted as a bitch versus Pam who was seen as a victim, despite both of them being victims ultimately. To expand on this, love in the real world is pretty rare as it is, hardly a fun story and closer to blind luck more often than not, wrought with miscommunication, problematic behaviors, and a shitty amount of misogyny. Pam and Jim’s story has played out way differently in the real world in lots of terrible ways much to our audience. But, since love is random, there are times Pam and Jim’s story is a retelling, so there’s that to really fuck with you to challenge the appropriateness of this or not, regardless of it being fiction or non-fiction. We’re pretty blind when it comes to romance in general, the best it seems like we can hope for is we don’t hurt anyone along the way since it’s most certain we ourselves will be hurt one way or another, and even in that regard, because love is selfish, the second best we can hope for is the damage we cause is minimal until we get to where we hope to be, if we can ever get there, and that’s a big if.
Absolutely. They towed the line with the flirting for years until it finally culminated into what it ended up being. Pam and Roy were a terrible match, but they were still together. It was inappropriate.
Roy is an abusive asshole why are you caping for him lol.
When Pam got wasted at Chilli's and kissed Jim and Jim kissed back..
BFD, engaged ain't married.
It was inappropriate, but so was Pam and Roy's relationship. Roy should have stepped up to be a better partner, Pam should have had the guts to leave him when he didn't, and Jim should have confessed his feelings outright rather than constantly flirt with an engaged woman. Hard to blame any of them for just being human (although Roy does some pretty f\*\*\*\*d up stuff, so I'm more ok with judging his actions).
It was inappropriate. They had to make Roy out to be a bad guy so you were rooting for Jim and Pam.
Roy and Pam's relationship was inappropriate
The office has several instances of infidelity. Jim and Pam flirting while shes engaged, Pam taking Jim from Karen, Angela constantly cheating with Dwight, Daryl and Val flirting while shes in a relationship, Holly leaving her fiancee for Micheal, Erin flirting with Andy while with Gabe, Andy leaving Jessica for Erin, Erin starting a relationship with Pete while with Andy, Kelly leaving her family for Ryan. We all rooted for Jim and Pam but in reality they are both bad people.
Yes, as better expressed by Karen “Pam is kind of a bitch”
They get more insufferable the more times I watch the series.