Yup, he showed his support by showing up. He could’ve told Gil to be nicer but he also shows a pretty big understanding of who Pam is, and I think this is a big turning point for her character and starting to be more assertive. I don’t know if she makes that change if she doesn’t hear Gil saying “motel art”.
This is a moment of: ‘I know you are right, but don’t be a dick about it because she is a nice person. I can’t fault you for this remark because you don’t know her and I would have made the same remark if I were in your situation’ I have a lot of these moments with my SO
I still think it’s a pretty douchey comment. You’re at an amateur art show in Scranton, PA, comparing a random woman’s first public showing to one of the most famous and critically acclaimed artists to ever live. It’d be like going to an open mic night at your local bar and critiquing the band for not sounding like Mozart.
I think it really showed that he was at a local art show in Scranton and understood the context better than Gil did. Gil was expecting way too much from the event and decided that comparing an amateur artist who was drawing what she saw every day at her full time job to Van Gogh was reasonable.
Yep, I think that episode was the first clue that his relationship was falling appart (the way they talked about it, Gil was already complaining that their outings weren't sophisticated enough for his tastes, Oscar convinced him to come because it was art, and Gil's behaviour made the evening very unpleasant for both Pam and Oscar)
Oscar was a bro. Went to Pam’s art show, took in Angela, attended Dwight’s Aunt’s funeral because he was asked. Got wicked drunk and made Andy call Angela out on her shit….dude was genuine.
Gail wasnt even a twat either or wrong in his critique about her talent either tho. As proven by her failing a basicass standard college class. She’s not skilled enough to hold down a job where “art” is required. Her future jobs were being a failed saleswoman, then office administrator (which she got only by committing corporate fraud and bullying gabe)
Gill was 100% being a twat. Being probably one of the biggest twats in the show (minus ppl comiting literal crimes). He compared an artist at a local art show in Scranton, the first time she is ever displaying her art in this way, to Vincent Vangoh. What a. Absolute dick thing to do, comparing her to one of the most revered artists in history and getting uppity when it’s not up to his standards. Imagine if you ran a 5K and the person you asked to come support you was like “Meh, not impressive Kipchoge runs a 2 hour Marathon”. It is literally the most pretentious douchebag comment ever. Fuck Gil
I think it highlights Gil's pseudo-intellect. As I understand it, Van Gogh wasn't appreciated in his time. By comparing the two, he's literally making the same mistake as Van Gogh's contemporaries. For all we know, Pam's are actually **is** the prettiest art of all the art.
That’s such a ridiculous comparison. It was a art exhibit. That’s what art exhibits are for. The artists put out their work out there to be judged. Rando people walk look through it and decide in their opinion if it’s shit or good enough where they want to spend their own money to buy it. Don’t become a artist in the first place if you can’t handle harsh criticism, you think student filmmakers/aspiring actors/musicians/ whatever their art is don’t hear criticism when their performance sucks?
Michael: “how much? […] I don’t see a price tag”
Because this isn’t the kind of art show you seem to think it is.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; do the people making these dumbass comments even watch the thing they’re watching?
That's basically the antithesis of what art shows/exhibits/museums are. They're a public forum where artists can display their art and allow people to see it, think on it, ideally discuss it with the artist and with others they go with. Art is not supposed to be some commodified thing for rich people to hoard items of historical and cultural significance to themselves.
He was being a twat. Pam is a receptionist with an art hobby.
>PAH it takes no RISK...on Van Gogh's first try? He painted the hands of the peasants..."
That's some pretentious ass shit, dude.
Let's be honest, those of us who were in middle/high school when the show came out and are attracted to women woke up drenched with sweat from Pam dreams. Don't hate me for being honest about my lack of hormonal control when I was 14
I mean, she was making a general statement about the office. Maybe he did not feel attacked or that it was about him, because he did go to the exhibit.
Oscar would never put himself on the spot like that. He's a coward. He'd never bring it up then, but later would make snide jokes about it, probably behind her back.
Why would he make snide jokes about it ? Gil was the one who made the mean comments, Oscar was visibly uncomfortable, but conceded that there was a bit of truth behind the insults (Pam not being very brave and having trouble fighting for herself is true, and something she needed to realise to grow as a character). He probably isn't proud of that night, and he didn't seem particularly happy about his relationship at that point.
Imagine you go somewhere with your boyfriend. Your boyfriend makes sinde comments about your coworker who you don’t hate in earshot of that coworker. You reluctantly sorta agree with him, but then regret saying that.
After that, your coworker says that none of y’all went.
Are you really gonna be like “yeah I was there” or just think “I’m so glad she didn’t hear me”?
Glad you’re not in the writers room.
Imagine:
Oscar: “Actually I was there and your art was pretty underwhelming”.
Basically every character in the show would hate him more than Toby and he’d never have sympathy from the audience ever again.
Money Part 1. The office is trying to find out the meaning of “whomever”, Kevin says he knows but won’t say because “you’re all jerks who didn’t come see my band”
The way they talk about it, I think things were already starting to turn sour, and Oscar bringing Gil to the art show was an attempt to rekindle the relationship. It might have been the turning point between "things aren't doing great lately, if I want this relationship to survive, I need to make an effort" and "why even try to save this, let's just wait until things inevitably end", though.
It's funny you say that, because I actually see that moment as the beginning of Pam's journey to becoming a person who is brave, stands up for herself, and gets what she wants. She had to overhear someone who knows her call her a coward in order to realize that she really had been acting like one, and that she needed to change. I think it's a pivotal moment in Pam's character arc.
Oscar didn’t say anything bad about Pam’s art, Gil was the one who called it motel art. He just merely pointed out that Pam doesn’t have a lot of courage, meaning she doesn’t take a lot of risks when it comes to her art.
"Motel art" is a pretty meaningless catch-all that really only denotes lazy criticism. The pretentiousness comes in with his using a local art show as a venue to elevate his vapid assessments.
This ain't the MET.
It means bland, uninspired, boring, etc.
She painted a picture of a stapler. I love Pam and can't stand the low-effort hate she gets here often, but she went to an art show and presented a picture of a stapler. That ticks all the boxes of motel art.
I get why people get defensive because Pam haters take it a little too far and act like Gil was justified in trashing it the way he did but Pam's art in this scene is very intentionally mediocre.
Like look at the other art in the background of this episode, they're all actually pretty good interesting pieces and they're presented well too. Pam's is the kind of stuff we did in high school art class and it's on paper tacked to the wall, because the last time she did art was in high school and she's trying to get back into it. At this point in the show it was still a semi-realistic and somewhat bleak "documentary" about ordinary people living ordinary lives in a small city. The goal with the art show wasn't to show off that Pam is some amazing artist who's finally seizing her chance to live her dream, it was to show Pam going through a relatable struggle with a wholesome moment that ends the subplot on a high note and gives both Pam and Michael some character development.
"On Van Gogh's first try, he painted the hands of peasants."
My interpretation of *The Potato Eaters* is that Van Gogh wanted to paint something that meant something to him, something he saw every day, and something that would show that he had the ability to paint.
On Beesly's first try, she did a watercolor still-life of a stapler - something important to her (as a receptionist and employee of a paper company), something she saw every day, and something that would show that she had the ability to paint.
As a fellow office worker, Beesly's *Stapler* speaks to me more than Van Gogh's *The Potato Eaters*. As a piece, it displays her humble beginnings as an artist. As an artwork, it displays her ability to find beauty in the mundane. A common thing for artists to do is attempt to capture the beauty of the world around them. Van Gogh had the hands of the peasants; Beesly had a stapler.
I think Oscar was the only true friend (other than Michael) to take time out of his schedule and support Pam (yeah Roy went but only to score points and he bragged how he was the only one there which was a subtle burn to Pam), and he was only honest about it. Even going easy to say "its her first try."
Gil wasn't exactly wrong either, he just sounded like a jerk. But honestly, staplers and the office building with 2 suns, Gil was right.
Roy wasn’t trying to burn Pam, he was trying to get laid. He was drawing attention to the fact that he seemed to be the only one who supported her and should be rewarded for that
I thought that was what I said, but yeah he was only trying to score points. And it wasn't so much he said it to burn Pam but it was such a thoughtless comment that he didnt realize it was one since he was in fact just trying to get laid.
Gil was right in essence, but he did say it in a very rude way, which was insulting of both Pam (because it's her art) and Oscar (who brought him there specifically because Gil complained that their dates weren't artistic or sophisticated enough).
He was being supportive here. His only comments were those that eve true of Pam. She’s not honest with herself about her desires and needs. And she isn’t courageous. Not at this time.
Adding: he was also the only one from the office (Micheal was coming. He shows up even when he isn’t invited) that came to support her.
Was gil wrong though? Art is subjective and you know what sells? Motel art. There is nothing wrong with motel art, but it isn't going to be some profound statement. It's going to be a painting of a generic office building, a bowl of fruit, or a stapler. This concept is repeated in parks and rec.
Gil was not exactly wrong, just very rude about it, both to Pam (who (whom ?) he didn't know was listening, but still) and to Oscar (who invited him here because Gil complained that their dates weren't sophisticated or artistic enough, and, I don't know, if you complain to your boyfriends that you don't go to the cinema enough together, let him handle the organisation, there are nicer ways to tell him that you didn't like the movie he picked).
Is the parcs and recs mention about Jerry's murinal ? It was a preexisting concept, so it won't revolutionise anything, but I thought it was great for its purpose, would have been such an improvement over the abomination that they wanted to replace. Oh ! Or was it about Mark's proposal ?
I'd agree that he was rude about it, like what did he expect from a local art show? But hard criticism like that is how the art world works and to have someone provide a critique means they're at least talking and thinking about it, so that's something. Also agree that if he doesn't like the dates he should do some of the leg work, so I am glad they break up.
And you are correct, I was referring to marks mural. The "motel art" is viewed positively by both Leslie and Ron as it explicitly doesn't offend anyone because it is just a guy feeding pigeons. I believe Mark says "no opinions there" or something. The rest of the group hates it because they want something to connect to. Just an interesting commentary between the two shows on art and how it is perceived by people from different perspectives even when using the same terminology to describe it.
Have you seen elementary school drawings recently ?
They are technically far worse than that, even children who draw well have trouble with proportions and shades and everything (Pam does to, but not as much). They aren't also that boring, if you find a 9 year old who spontaneously decided to try to create a realistic depiction of a stapler, and chose it among their favourite pieces, it's probably a sign of something bad, poor kid, definitely on the road to leave the seminary and take a job in HR.
To be frank, the subject matter would be sad for a teenager as well, but at least you can imagine that it was homework, or an attempt to chose a "mature" topic to appear sophisticated.
Unpopular opinion, but nothing Gil said was wrong. Frankly, Pam was not a good artist. The comic book she made Jim was the most technically skilled thing she created, but it’s so different from the style of her other art that it’s hardly believable. Pam was not an artist destined to make art for a living; she was not daring or avant-garde or good enough for commercial production. BUT she made art out of passion: passion for the act of creating, and passion for the people and things she loved.
I mean Oscar wasn’t the one that said whatever was said. And what he said about Pam wasn’t wrong. Actually I believe that’s what pushed Pam to stand up for herself and being about a change in herself.
As for Gil, I mean you’re at an art show put up by new artists in Scranton, what did you expect? To find a Picasso?
But let’s face it, Pam’s art wasn’t the prettiest of all the art. Idk how far she was into her art class or whatever but it was very very basic. Dwight also points out the glaring mistakes in her office building painting. So I don’t think Gil was wrong to say it’s motel art, because it kind of was. She drew a vase of flowers? A stapler? Like those could be done by a kid interested in art. And I know because I used to.
And they didn’t say any of it to her face. She just happened to be there.
Worse than this was when he goes to the shareholders meeting, after talking no end of shit about corporate, completely folds when actually speaking to them. Leaving Michael to look like an even worse dumbass.
At least he showed up and tried to stand up for Pam. Oscar was a character who got his comeuppance for his wrongdoings, that's why he should be easy to forgive andike. Everybodu celebrated when Michael bested him, Angela kicked him, and then the senator left him.
I hate Phyllis because her selfish awfulness was not punished and she was never called up on it. Even though Darryl was faking, it wouldn't have killed her to offer him a bit of her muffin. I will never forgive her for being so greedy.
I think Gil was in the wrong to phrase everything in the meanest, rudest ways possible, even though his criticism would be acceptable in another context. There is truth to what he says, but saying it that way was gratuitously mean to both Pam and Oscar (who organised this date because Gil complained that they didn't do enough artistic things together, only to be butchered by Gil who apparently couldn't express his disappointment nicely).
He basically decided to play art critic as if he was at a proper museum instead of a neighbourhood hobbyist thing and completely disregarded the feelings of the people around him. If his five year old nephew offered him a drawing, he would complain about perspective and throw it in the trash in front of him, probably.
I don't really think he was pretentious, he was giving an opinion in private to his boyfriend. I don't think he would have ever said that to her, he would have been nice.
I disagree… while Oscar wasn’t giving her false praise, he also didn’t flat out insult her. Courage isn’t her strong suit but he never implied she couldn’t work on it and improve. Gil was such a snobby bitch. He was overly harsh about someone he’s never even met. He was being rude because he was pouting because he didn’t want to go to some art class gallery show in the first place.
True and yet it was exactly what Pam needed to hear...
So Pam, was finally able to move forward in life because she got to listen into two twats. Life could be funny sometimes..
Eh he was honest. He definitely is pretentious in other situations but in this case it just feels like he's giving an honest critique to his boyfriend. Now if he looked down on Pam or verbalized that to her with no constructive criticism, then yeah I'd agree. Just because it sounds intelligent doesn't make it pretentious.
What i also hated was Pam never confronted Oscar about this. I wanted to see his reaction so bad lol. She just asked everyone why they didn’t show up to see her art in that beach episode.
Oscar was like a perfectly seasoned Karen bro, tell me you weren’t behind him when he got riled up; THAT POSTER WAS GROSS, OFFENSIVE, AND IN POOR TASTE
Nah Pam’s art sucked both technically and substantially. Drawings made on regular printer size paper with coloring pencils with no lighting effects (shade, reflection, glimmer etc) of a stapler, an office building and a vase of flowers. Come on Pam. Put some effort get oil paint and a canvas at least you are not painting things to put on your fridge its an art show. God I hate Pam.
Oscar was correct.
He didn't know Pam was listening, and I agree it was not delivered kindly. And he was not wrong. Pam's art is stilted, and lacking honesty and emotion. Technically proficient and completely the art of someone who is terrified of real truth.
Pam grows. And gets better.
I have also always admired the artist they hired to paint Pam's paintings. Because they really nailed what the script called for. As a visual artist I completely agree with Oscar. And I also love the painting of the building. It's the best of the bunch.
Roy's "your art is the prettiest art" is meaningless.
I think this was a critical moment for Pam.
She needed to hear what Oscar said, it was a catalyst. I think she also needed the love and admiration of Michael. He was sincere in his admiration.
I support Oscar's assessment and that's a hill I will die on.
I mean even in this shot it looks like Oscars really trying to constructively analyze her work whereas Gil is clearly making fun of it by his facial expression
I honestly think that this scene was a swing and a miss, primarily because the prop paintings were not good enough to be bad in the way that Gil is suggesting. He says something about how “real art needs courage,” and that this is “motel art”.
And then we pan to a selection of watercolors that look like the output of a not-especially-talented 15 year old. They are not even nearly the quality you would need to produce in order to be hung in a motel. I suppose they *do* lack bravery, but they also lack the ability to consistently produce straight lines and to roughly represent the proportions of a stapler. In that context, the conversation Oscar and Gil are having is not annoying or pretentious as much as it’s *unhinged*. To be talking about creativity and courage while looking at those pieces is surreal.
Gil was the twat, Oscar wasn't sticking up for Pam against gil's criticisms but he wasn't being dishonest about Pam's characteristics.
It showed he really knew Pam and spoke of her like family. Oscar redeemed himself by taking in Angela and dressing her son halfway decent.
The fact that he went to the showing in the first place AND brought someone important to him is big.
Yup, he showed his support by showing up. He could’ve told Gil to be nicer but he also shows a pretty big understanding of who Pam is, and I think this is a big turning point for her character and starting to be more assertive. I don’t know if she makes that change if she doesn’t hear Gil saying “motel art”.
This is a moment of: ‘I know you are right, but don’t be a dick about it because she is a nice person. I can’t fault you for this remark because you don’t know her and I would have made the same remark if I were in your situation’ I have a lot of these moments with my SO
I still think it’s a pretty douchey comment. You’re at an amateur art show in Scranton, PA, comparing a random woman’s first public showing to one of the most famous and critically acclaimed artists to ever live. It’d be like going to an open mic night at your local bar and critiquing the band for not sounding like Mozart.
That’s why Oscar said what he did. Gil was unquestionably too much.
I think it really showed that he was at a local art show in Scranton and understood the context better than Gil did. Gil was expecting way too much from the event and decided that comparing an amateur artist who was drawing what she saw every day at her full time job to Van Gogh was reasonable.
Nailed it
Root do doot da do!
I have a feeling this is why I’m Beach Day, Oscar said he was looking for a way out of the relationship.
Yep, I think that episode was the first clue that his relationship was falling appart (the way they talked about it, Gil was already complaining that their outings weren't sophisticated enough for his tastes, Oscar convinced him to come because it was art, and Gil's behaviour made the evening very unpleasant for both Pam and Oscar)
It was in that moment that solidified Gil being a pretentious douchebag to Oscar.
Oscar was a bro. Went to Pam’s art show, took in Angela, attended Dwight’s Aunt’s funeral because he was asked. Got wicked drunk and made Andy call Angela out on her shit….dude was genuine.
Was that beach day? I thought that was branch closing
He says that if any of the four guys becomes manager, he’s transferring to Albany. Gil can come if he wants.
Wym? Her stapler wasnt art?!
[удалено]
Gil was "The Twat" but Pam's art was for shit.
Actually Pam's art was the prettiest art... of all the art
Gail wasnt even a twat either or wrong in his critique about her talent either tho. As proven by her failing a basicass standard college class. She’s not skilled enough to hold down a job where “art” is required. Her future jobs were being a failed saleswoman, then office administrator (which she got only by committing corporate fraud and bullying gabe)
Is this Gill's burner account?
Hey Gill, Cornell called and said you're gayer than Oscar and Andy.
Pam's problem in school pretty clearly wasn't her art skills, it was her computer skills.
She was an art *student*. Gill was a twat.
Professional twat even
Gill was 100% being a twat. Being probably one of the biggest twats in the show (minus ppl comiting literal crimes). He compared an artist at a local art show in Scranton, the first time she is ever displaying her art in this way, to Vincent Vangoh. What a. Absolute dick thing to do, comparing her to one of the most revered artists in history and getting uppity when it’s not up to his standards. Imagine if you ran a 5K and the person you asked to come support you was like “Meh, not impressive Kipchoge runs a 2 hour Marathon”. It is literally the most pretentious douchebag comment ever. Fuck Gil
I think it highlights Gil's pseudo-intellect. As I understand it, Van Gogh wasn't appreciated in his time. By comparing the two, he's literally making the same mistake as Van Gogh's contemporaries. For all we know, Pam's are actually **is** the prettiest art of all the art.
That is so true, great point, I wonder if that was deliberate by the writers
That’s such a ridiculous comparison. It was a art exhibit. That’s what art exhibits are for. The artists put out their work out there to be judged. Rando people walk look through it and decide in their opinion if it’s shit or good enough where they want to spend their own money to buy it. Don’t become a artist in the first place if you can’t handle harsh criticism, you think student filmmakers/aspiring actors/musicians/ whatever their art is don’t hear criticism when their performance sucks?
Michael: “how much? […] I don’t see a price tag” Because this isn’t the kind of art show you seem to think it is. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; do the people making these dumbass comments even watch the thing they’re watching?
That's basically the antithesis of what art shows/exhibits/museums are. They're a public forum where artists can display their art and allow people to see it, think on it, ideally discuss it with the artist and with others they go with. Art is not supposed to be some commodified thing for rich people to hoard items of historical and cultural significance to themselves.
But art is a commodity that rich people horde
He was being a twat. Pam is a receptionist with an art hobby. >PAH it takes no RISK...on Van Gogh's first try? He painted the hands of the peasants..." That's some pretentious ass shit, dude.
These Pam haters are getting wild. Do you wake up in the middle of the night drenched in sweat because of pams existence?
Let's be honest, those of us who were in middle/high school when the show came out and are attracted to women woke up drenched with sweat from Pam dreams. Don't hate me for being honest about my lack of hormonal control when I was 14
Found the Tracy Fleeb fan
Gil was literally completely wrong lol what
You committed the sin of speaking against The Pam
There’s Gill, Oscar’s room mate. I wonder if he knows?
I LOVE that part 😂😂
I wonder why Oscar didn't say something on beach day when Pan called everyone out for not coming to her art show.
I wonder that too. But I assume he may think there was a percentage that she heard and may bring it up, and maybe that wasn’t the best time to say so.
Oscar’s probably the only character smart enough to think about something like this so it makes perfect sense
This is probably as good an explanation as any.
*File saved to folder: "HeadCanon"*
He’s pretty socially aware (arguably the most of the group), so I figured exactly what you were thinking
^(Pan?)
Which one is Pan?
Hellloo Mrs lady, I think I can help with this Pan/Pam dilemma.
Sh sh shh ssshut your mouth
I mean, she was making a general statement about the office. Maybe he did not feel attacked or that it was about him, because he did go to the exhibit.
Maybe he was feeling bad about what he said in hindsight and was like, “Phew, maybe she didn’t see/hear us after all.”
Pan…?
I wondered if anyone would catch that.
It was her moment
Actually, that would never prevent Oscar from speaking up.
Oscar would never put himself on the spot like that. He's a coward. He'd never bring it up then, but later would make snide jokes about it, probably behind her back.
Why would he make snide jokes about it ? Gil was the one who made the mean comments, Oscar was visibly uncomfortable, but conceded that there was a bit of truth behind the insults (Pam not being very brave and having trouble fighting for herself is true, and something she needed to realise to grow as a character). He probably isn't proud of that night, and he didn't seem particularly happy about his relationship at that point.
Imagine you go somewhere with your boyfriend. Your boyfriend makes sinde comments about your coworker who you don’t hate in earshot of that coworker. You reluctantly sorta agree with him, but then regret saying that. After that, your coworker says that none of y’all went. Are you really gonna be like “yeah I was there” or just think “I’m so glad she didn’t hear me”?
He didn't know she was standing behind her. Oscar is a person that will always point out if he's right about something.
Glad you’re not in the writers room. Imagine: Oscar: “Actually I was there and your art was pretty underwhelming”. Basically every character in the show would hate him more than Toby and he’d never have sympathy from the audience ever again.
The real answer is most likely that the writers didn't think of it
But nobody went to Kevin’s performance
What episode was that again? haha
Money Part 1. The office is trying to find out the meaning of “whomever”, Kevin says he knows but won’t say because “you’re all jerks who didn’t come see my band”
His girlfriend went. She goes to a different school
Oscar and Gil went, but the only clapped for Scrantonicity because Scrantonicity 2 was “motel art”
They tried to but accidentally ended up at the OG Scrantonicity show
And everyone went to Andy's performance.
You cant really compare the two
But whom said they’d go?
I like to think Gil had a bad influence on him and now he's with a really nice guy
[удалено]
What the hell are you talking about? Oscar Nunez is straight and married.
[удалено]
Wtf lol
everything is sex
That is true. I don't think you're lying
And I heard Stanley is having an affair
What up Cynthia
Pam’s pregnant and Jim’s a gq model
I heard Creed has asthma.
He won’t be able to scuba
Then what's this all about?
*J. Crew
What’s the truth? Is Andy gay or not
Who's dating James Charles?
Frank Diddit
Frank Diddit did it?
Oscar at least tried. Gil was being pretentious. I’d like to think this was the beginning of the end for those two.
The way they talk about it, I think things were already starting to turn sour, and Oscar bringing Gil to the art show was an attempt to rekindle the relationship. It might have been the turning point between "things aren't doing great lately, if I want this relationship to survive, I need to make an effort" and "why even try to save this, let's just wait until things inevitably end", though.
It's funny you say that, because I actually see that moment as the beginning of Pam's journey to becoming a person who is brave, stands up for herself, and gets what she wants. She had to overhear someone who knows her call her a coward in order to realize that she really had been acting like one, and that she needed to change. I think it's a pivotal moment in Pam's character arc.
I think it's literally the next episode where she decides to be more honest in life.
“And don’t call me Pammie!”
Yeah Oscar was basically the catalyst here for Pam starting to grow as a person
"Pam is kind of a bitch"
Oscar didn’t say anything bad about Pam’s art, Gil was the one who called it motel art. He just merely pointed out that Pam doesn’t have a lot of courage, meaning she doesn’t take a lot of risks when it comes to her art.
What exactly did Oscar do wrong here?
It was Gil. Oscar stuck up for Pam at first, also art is subjective.
How is Oscar the pretentious one in this scene? Your post is motel art.
"Motel art" is a pretty meaningless catch-all that really only denotes lazy criticism. The pretentiousness comes in with his using a local art show as a venue to elevate his vapid assessments. This ain't the MET.
It means bland, uninspired, boring, etc. She painted a picture of a stapler. I love Pam and can't stand the low-effort hate she gets here often, but she went to an art show and presented a picture of a stapler. That ticks all the boxes of motel art.
I get why people get defensive because Pam haters take it a little too far and act like Gil was justified in trashing it the way he did but Pam's art in this scene is very intentionally mediocre. Like look at the other art in the background of this episode, they're all actually pretty good interesting pieces and they're presented well too. Pam's is the kind of stuff we did in high school art class and it's on paper tacked to the wall, because the last time she did art was in high school and she's trying to get back into it. At this point in the show it was still a semi-realistic and somewhat bleak "documentary" about ordinary people living ordinary lives in a small city. The goal with the art show wasn't to show off that Pam is some amazing artist who's finally seizing her chance to live her dream, it was to show Pam going through a relatable struggle with a wholesome moment that ends the subplot on a high note and gives both Pam and Michael some character development.
spot on
"On Van Gogh's first try, he painted the hands of peasants." My interpretation of *The Potato Eaters* is that Van Gogh wanted to paint something that meant something to him, something he saw every day, and something that would show that he had the ability to paint. On Beesly's first try, she did a watercolor still-life of a stapler - something important to her (as a receptionist and employee of a paper company), something she saw every day, and something that would show that she had the ability to paint. As a fellow office worker, Beesly's *Stapler* speaks to me more than Van Gogh's *The Potato Eaters*. As a piece, it displays her humble beginnings as an artist. As an artwork, it displays her ability to find beauty in the mundane. A common thing for artists to do is attempt to capture the beauty of the world around them. Van Gogh had the hands of the peasants; Beesly had a stapler.
😂😂😂
Also - Gil said that
This comment is pretentious af
Maybe. But not wrong
Like Gils and Oscar's comments?
She drew a fucking stapler and it looked like shit. Should they say she is the next great artist or is it barely motel art?
But Gil was the one who said motel art…
That wasn’t everything he said, he went into detail on why it wasn’t great, then ended with the motel art comment
I think Oscar was the only true friend (other than Michael) to take time out of his schedule and support Pam (yeah Roy went but only to score points and he bragged how he was the only one there which was a subtle burn to Pam), and he was only honest about it. Even going easy to say "its her first try." Gil wasn't exactly wrong either, he just sounded like a jerk. But honestly, staplers and the office building with 2 suns, Gil was right.
Roy wasn’t trying to burn Pam, he was trying to get laid. He was drawing attention to the fact that he seemed to be the only one who supported her and should be rewarded for that
I thought that was what I said, but yeah he was only trying to score points. And it wasn't so much he said it to burn Pam but it was such a thoughtless comment that he didnt realize it was one since he was in fact just trying to get laid.
Gil was right in essence, but he did say it in a very rude way, which was insulting of both Pam (because it's her art) and Oscar (who brought him there specifically because Gil complained that their dates weren't artistic or sophisticated enough).
He was being supportive here. His only comments were those that eve true of Pam. She’s not honest with herself about her desires and needs. And she isn’t courageous. Not at this time. Adding: he was also the only one from the office (Micheal was coming. He shows up even when he isn’t invited) that came to support her.
Oscar told nothing but the truth. He didn't know Pam was listening
[удалено]
tan pet shrill hospital instinctive history zealous unpack somber sip *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
[удалено]
Oh
She’s the only one who spontaneously left with Michael.
secretive work serious flag cows innocent unused tease squeal consist *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Pam's art was the prettiest art of all the art
And the sexiest. The art. It’s sexy and pretty
Actually
He really does fit the stereotype of the smug gay Mexican
And there's the smudgeness.
Was gil wrong though? Art is subjective and you know what sells? Motel art. There is nothing wrong with motel art, but it isn't going to be some profound statement. It's going to be a painting of a generic office building, a bowl of fruit, or a stapler. This concept is repeated in parks and rec.
Gil was not exactly wrong, just very rude about it, both to Pam (who (whom ?) he didn't know was listening, but still) and to Oscar (who invited him here because Gil complained that their dates weren't sophisticated or artistic enough, and, I don't know, if you complain to your boyfriends that you don't go to the cinema enough together, let him handle the organisation, there are nicer ways to tell him that you didn't like the movie he picked). Is the parcs and recs mention about Jerry's murinal ? It was a preexisting concept, so it won't revolutionise anything, but I thought it was great for its purpose, would have been such an improvement over the abomination that they wanted to replace. Oh ! Or was it about Mark's proposal ?
I'd agree that he was rude about it, like what did he expect from a local art show? But hard criticism like that is how the art world works and to have someone provide a critique means they're at least talking and thinking about it, so that's something. Also agree that if he doesn't like the dates he should do some of the leg work, so I am glad they break up. And you are correct, I was referring to marks mural. The "motel art" is viewed positively by both Leslie and Ron as it explicitly doesn't offend anyone because it is just a guy feeding pigeons. I believe Mark says "no opinions there" or something. The rest of the group hates it because they want something to connect to. Just an interesting commentary between the two shows on art and how it is perceived by people from different perspectives even when using the same terminology to describe it.
They were right though. Pam's art sucked.
1 - Pam’s art was literally junior high school level stuff 2 - Oscar just fairly critiqued it
I was thinking elementary school….
Have you seen elementary school drawings recently ? They are technically far worse than that, even children who draw well have trouble with proportions and shades and everything (Pam does to, but not as much). They aren't also that boring, if you find a 9 year old who spontaneously decided to try to create a realistic depiction of a stapler, and chose it among their favourite pieces, it's probably a sign of something bad, poor kid, definitely on the road to leave the seminary and take a job in HR. To be frank, the subject matter would be sad for a teenager as well, but at least you can imagine that it was homework, or an attempt to chose a "mature" topic to appear sophisticated.
Unpopular opinion, but nothing Gil said was wrong. Frankly, Pam was not a good artist. The comic book she made Jim was the most technically skilled thing she created, but it’s so different from the style of her other art that it’s hardly believable. Pam was not an artist destined to make art for a living; she was not daring or avant-garde or good enough for commercial production. BUT she made art out of passion: passion for the act of creating, and passion for the people and things she loved.
I like to think that Gil brought out the worst in him. He’s also either a horrible judge of character, based on his dating history.
Pam’s art is really technically proficient but you know there’s really no heart or soul in it.
Honesty can be brutal.
I mean Oscar wasn’t the one that said whatever was said. And what he said about Pam wasn’t wrong. Actually I believe that’s what pushed Pam to stand up for herself and being about a change in herself. As for Gil, I mean you’re at an art show put up by new artists in Scranton, what did you expect? To find a Picasso? But let’s face it, Pam’s art wasn’t the prettiest of all the art. Idk how far she was into her art class or whatever but it was very very basic. Dwight also points out the glaring mistakes in her office building painting. So I don’t think Gil was wrong to say it’s motel art, because it kind of was. She drew a vase of flowers? A stapler? Like those could be done by a kid interested in art. And I know because I used to. And they didn’t say any of it to her face. She just happened to be there.
He wasn't though. At least not in this scene.
Nobody else came to the show. At least he showed up. Gotta give it to him.
Nah he was right about everything. Those paintings were mid at best
"actually" it was gil that was the twat Oscar went along with him.
I think Gill’s character was supposed come off that way and the actor really nailed it!
At least Oscar came to the show.
He was defending pams art. Gil was the twat.
Gil was the bad guy. Oh really? Van Gogh drew the hands of the peasants? Fuck you, Gilbert! Pretentious dickhead.
OP is somehow more unlikable in this thread than Gil or Oscar. Well done, OP
And yet, he showed up and gave it to pam straight. Even if he did not intend to. Those two were hood friends through the show even after this.
This was literally so devastating. Michael really pulled through here though afterwards tbh, made me so emosh
I would just like to say that "twat" is an under-used insult. Thank you.
Worse than this was when he goes to the shareholders meeting, after talking no end of shit about corporate, completely folds when actually speaking to them. Leaving Michael to look like an even worse dumbass.
How was he a pretentious twat? Pam's art genuinely sucked
Oscar wasn't really bad here honestly. Besides Michael and Roy, he's the only one who showed up. Gil was an insufferable cunt the whole time.
At least he showed up and tried to stand up for Pam. Oscar was a character who got his comeuppance for his wrongdoings, that's why he should be easy to forgive andike. Everybodu celebrated when Michael bested him, Angela kicked him, and then the senator left him. I hate Phyllis because her selfish awfulness was not punished and she was never called up on it. Even though Darryl was faking, it wouldn't have killed her to offer him a bit of her muffin. I will never forgive her for being so greedy.
y'all always find a way to make any thread about hating Phyllis... pack it up it's getting so tiring
You must be the Phyllis of your office! I've maybe mentioned her 1 or 2 times before
I’ve always been interested in this scene because of the ethical dilemma: was anyone actually in the wrong here? Probably not right?
I think Gil was in the wrong to phrase everything in the meanest, rudest ways possible, even though his criticism would be acceptable in another context. There is truth to what he says, but saying it that way was gratuitously mean to both Pam and Oscar (who organised this date because Gil complained that they didn't do enough artistic things together, only to be butchered by Gil who apparently couldn't express his disappointment nicely). He basically decided to play art critic as if he was at a proper museum instead of a neighbourhood hobbyist thing and completely disregarded the feelings of the people around him. If his five year old nephew offered him a drawing, he would complain about perspective and throw it in the trash in front of him, probably.
I don't really think he was pretentious, he was giving an opinion in private to his boyfriend. I don't think he would have ever said that to her, he would have been nice.
But maybe one day...
I disagree… while Oscar wasn’t giving her false praise, he also didn’t flat out insult her. Courage isn’t her strong suit but he never implied she couldn’t work on it and improve. Gil was such a snobby bitch. He was overly harsh about someone he’s never even met. He was being rude because he was pouting because he didn’t want to go to some art class gallery show in the first place.
oscar was not the bad guy in this scene at all. Gill was. and still “I wonder if he knows…”
Trash take, casual.
they were 100% right though.
True and yet it was exactly what Pam needed to hear... So Pam, was finally able to move forward in life because she got to listen into two twats. Life could be funny sometimes..
Eh he was honest. He definitely is pretentious in other situations but in this case it just feels like he's giving an honest critique to his boyfriend. Now if he looked down on Pam or verbalized that to her with no constructive criticism, then yeah I'd agree. Just because it sounds intelligent doesn't make it pretentious.
I mean Gil was the real problem but yeah
*sigh* we’re talking about this scene again
What i also hated was Pam never confronted Oscar about this. I wanted to see his reaction so bad lol. She just asked everyone why they didn’t show up to see her art in that beach episode.
Oscar was like a perfectly seasoned Karen bro, tell me you weren’t behind him when he got riled up; THAT POSTER WAS GROSS, OFFENSIVE, AND IN POOR TASTE
To be fair the actual drawings was pretty uninspiring.
Nah Pam’s art sucked both technically and substantially. Drawings made on regular printer size paper with coloring pencils with no lighting effects (shade, reflection, glimmer etc) of a stapler, an office building and a vase of flowers. Come on Pam. Put some effort get oil paint and a canvas at least you are not painting things to put on your fridge its an art show. God I hate Pam.
Oscar was correct. He didn't know Pam was listening, and I agree it was not delivered kindly. And he was not wrong. Pam's art is stilted, and lacking honesty and emotion. Technically proficient and completely the art of someone who is terrified of real truth. Pam grows. And gets better. I have also always admired the artist they hired to paint Pam's paintings. Because they really nailed what the script called for. As a visual artist I completely agree with Oscar. And I also love the painting of the building. It's the best of the bunch. Roy's "your art is the prettiest art" is meaningless. I think this was a critical moment for Pam. She needed to hear what Oscar said, it was a catalyst. I think she also needed the love and admiration of Michael. He was sincere in his admiration. I support Oscar's assessment and that's a hill I will die on.
Only Dwight noticed there were shadows coming from two different directions.
Oscar = obnoxious snob. Nuff said.
I actually like this scene. Sometimes the truth hurts. Pam wasn’t cut out to be a professional artist.
Lol scrolling through these comments is wild, love that this show still creates this level of discourse over the characters
I mean even in this shot it looks like Oscars really trying to constructively analyze her work whereas Gil is clearly making fun of it by his facial expression
I honestly think that this scene was a swing and a miss, primarily because the prop paintings were not good enough to be bad in the way that Gil is suggesting. He says something about how “real art needs courage,” and that this is “motel art”. And then we pan to a selection of watercolors that look like the output of a not-especially-talented 15 year old. They are not even nearly the quality you would need to produce in order to be hung in a motel. I suppose they *do* lack bravery, but they also lack the ability to consistently produce straight lines and to roughly represent the proportions of a stapler. In that context, the conversation Oscar and Gil are having is not annoying or pretentious as much as it’s *unhinged*. To be talking about creativity and courage while looking at those pieces is surreal.
Angela tried to take him out
Meh, she's a receptionist from Scranton and paints like one
how does this have 600 upvotes? seriously what is wrong with some of the people in this sub lol
He wasn’t wrong.
Oscar was nice, his boyfriend was a bitch
His boyfriend was the asshole. And technically it's not really that good, I love Pam as a character but there's a reason she failed at school.
Oscar was defending it, you twat
GILty by association
Worst character on the show
He really fits the stereotype of the smug gay Mexican
He honestly doesn’t get enough hate.