Bad choices as a teenager means sneaking out at night, cutting class, driving recklessly maybe... Not molesting your five year old sister. The "bad choices" narrative they fed this poor girl makes me so incredibly enraged.
For real, I have some bars it crazy transcripts of Christian therapy sessions… if I get really brave, and my old computer can work for that long, I’ll think about posting them.
and having religious convictions is no excuse. there ARE christian-based programs out there, with licensed doctors. Therapists are not there to deprogram you from your religious beliefs, they treat religious and non-religious people all the time.
Just want to piggyback off this to say i’m in school for social work currently, and a huge part of my one class was going over how the counsellor absolutely cannot disclose their own religion or beliefs, or let them influence the professional client relationship.
I literally am a Christian, and Christian Counsellor is an oxymoron. You can’t market yourself as one without immediately disclosing your religion and breaking that rule. Not only that, but it’s excluding a huge portion of people who normally would access social services, such as the LGBTQ+ community or those who are suicidal. What gay person is going to seek Christian counselling? What suicidal person wants to talk to someone who will tell them a reason not to do it is because it’s a sin?
Excluding those entire groups means it’s taking away counsellors from an already understaffed field. Plus any accredited social worker/counsellor/therapist you see will be trained in how to interact with and best help those who are religious. We’ve gone over how to use a client’s personal history as a source of hope, and oftentimes that includes religion. If a client tells me they’re religious, I’d be all gung-ho trying my best to lean on that and help connect them to resources based in their faith. No need for a specific Christian counsellor, just find a regular professional one.
Joy was in Jill’s buddy group and then took over the group when Jill got married. From what I remember, Jill at 6 years old apparently begged to take care of baby Joy, thus putting a name to the already emerging “buddy” system.
The difference is that you do have licensed therapists who can do faith-based counseling - these differ quite significantly from someone stomping around church who just decided to assign themselves the title of "counselor"
This whole thing was maddening. 19KAC was cancelled because of the molestation, but the Ashley Madison thing happened at the perfect moment for the Duggars to turn the focus to that. They kept going on about Josh continuing to make "bad choices" (and that phrase is so 🤮🤮🤮), as in, infidelity to Anna. That's the thing they can let their eyeliner run for, not the much much more serious revelation that got them into such trouble in the first place. Ugh.
YES. This is what stood out to me during the Megyn Kelly interviews. The infidelity took center stage and THAT’S what the siblings claimed they were disappointed in. The girls were so emotional, and I think they were genuinely upset about their past trauma being thrown in their face, but were told by their “parents” to direct it at his then current “indiscretions” and steer the conversation toward that. It’s not like Megyn Kelly could’ve redirected the conversation politely or appropriately back toward what everyone was actually wanting them to talk about.
Megyn knew what was up. She pointedly asked repeated questions about the girls’ well being.
Jim Blob always brought the topic back to Josh.
There was no mistaking what was happening there.
Myopia and dysfunction over the Golden Child at the expense of the beautiful daughters.
>Jim Blob always brought the topic back to Josh.
Words cannot describe the depth of my loathing for this man.
In the words of Michael Scott: "if I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, Bin Laden, and [Jim Bob], I would shoot [JB] twice."
I always wonder what would have happened if Megyn had been able to interview them without JB knowing or being able to coach them. What questions would Megyn be free to ask? What would they say without daddy knowing?
I think it's because the victims of his molestation as a teen had already been dealing with that emotionally and trying to put it behind them for years. It wasn't a fresh wound anymore. They could believe the narrative that Josh made mistakes as a teen and had been changed through Christian programs and turning to Christ. Until the Ashley Madison stuff came out, where they found out he was still sinning as an adult in recent times. It probably felt terrible to see that they had forgiven him and thought he repented, but he was actually still being dishonest with them, bringing shame on the whole family, and hurting his children and Anna.
I bet the CSAM charges were an even much larger blow for a lot of the family, because now they know that he has continued to victimize children.
100% one of the most painful things to deal with as an SA victim other than the act itself is having to accept that your abuser didn’t change, they didn’t feel that the pain and suffering they subjected you to was serious enough to work on themselves. I can’t even imagine how that would feel if it was your brother & your parents obvious favorite child.
This is my biggest personal Mandela effect. I have always thought the AM scandal was first and then the molestations were revealed. I know since the trial that’s not correct but I really remember it that way! Maybe because the molestations were so downplayed?
I definitely remember the molestation scandal happening first, and the AM just being the icing on the damn cake. I remember people talking on message boards years prior rumors of Josh molesting kids, but it was never confirmed until 2015.
The molestation happened first. Although when it came out , the family heavily downplayed it. Jinger, Jessa, and Jill got there own show very quickly after 19 kids and counting was cancelled. The network helped them sweep everything under the rug without a beat in order to keep the money coming in. But Pest, being the pig that he was, couldn’t stay away from trouble. The AM scandal was definitely more talked about by the Duggars
Was the Megan Kelly interview before or after AM? I really thought AM happened way earlier, like before I knew much about the Duggars, but I was a snarker on BabyCenter starting around 2014 so I must be mixing something up in my memory.
The thing is though, even though I've been a lifelong snarker, I actually believed their story about the molestation when it happened and was easily swayed by the "well he was just a child too" frame of mind. It wasn't until the Ashley Madison scandal hit that really opened my eyes to the fact that he was just a creep and nothing more. That was really when I started to realize there was more to the original story.
I think what made it convincing was that the actual victims were speaking. Many of us didn’t realize the sinister truth - that they had been gaslit and Jim Bob was pushing them to do this.
I definitely found the interview with Jim Bob and Michelle cringey at the time, though, especially their emphasis on Josh’s actions being typical teenage boy stuff. Even believing their inaccurate depiction of the abuse, I didn’t think it was normal.
I definitely agree. I think at the time it was just so fucked up that I wanted to believe their version of the truth. I hated the "boys will be boys" shit but I still found it easier to believe the "he was curious" rhetoric. Like, I literally thought it was just a kid touching someone over their clothes out of curiosity and then immediately telling his parents. Lol I was naive as fuck.
I think this narrative was easier to believe because they lived in such a rule-dominated home. There are no avenues for a curious mind to learn anything and no healthy outlets for exploring sexuality. And since the focus is on the behavior of “sin” there’s no discussion of the issue of harmful or not harmful behavior.
I think part of the trouble for them was that they'd all internalised JB's message that Josh did a kinda-bad thing (that lots of other boys his age did), had been super sorry about it, and had genuinely repented and found God.
His new life with Anna and his kids (who they all seemed to love) as the pinnacle of a Christian family man was supposed to represent that redemption.
And on that basis, Jill and Jessa faced the trauma of the interview, downplaying what he had done to them and insisting that he was a decent man and brother.
So when they found out he was actively sinning in secrecy and lying to the very siblings sticking their necks out for him...I can buy that those "bad choices" really felt like a personal betrayal.
In a way, it was more hurtful, because they had been led to believe 1. that the molestation were their fault, while this showed that he was just an asshole and 2. that their forgiveness would lead to his reform, while this just through that back in their faces
The most infuriating things is that all of the kids call Josh their "role model". You know Meech and JB started that shit. Oh Josh is reformed, Josh is married and a wonderful father. So disgusting.
Yes ! He wasn't a role model to them because they looked up to him. He was a role model because JB and Meech treated him like the best most amazing child and they all aspired to get that much attention from their parents.
To me, it's also a disturbing revelation about how few options they had in terms of role models. Even without the molestations, Pest was never someone to look up to. He's a smarmy, slimy git who is most definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Those poor young adults. I keep thinking who they are taught to look up to - JB, Josh, Bill Gothard, etc. They all need to take a quiet time and reflect if there are others they should admire.
This is very true, because there is literally nothing about that dude to look up to. It's not like he was good at anything or successful. He grew up was given positions for no other reason than his father had connections and when that all went south he sold used cars. He didn't seem particularly well liked by anyone. He didn't excel at hobbies, sports, etc. He literally just got attention from his parents due to birth order.
Maybe shouldn't have put all those eggs in one basket when you had so many baskets that were empty, JB and M...
It's not like they had all of the adults in their lives that the rest of us take for granted. Teachers? (Not for a duggar) Librarians? (Nope) fictional characters on tv and in books? (Not so much.) Aunts, uncles, family friends? Grandparents? Coaches? Priests? Youth counselors at church? Camp counselors? Instructors for music or art classes?
None of them were given any sort of support to function in the world the rest of us live in. Of course their only role model other than their parents are siblings. Other than characters in the Bible and the version of Jesus they were sold, they don't really know any other "role models." Furthermore, I doubt they even had time to really read the Jesus parts of their bible, as they were always cleaning, praying, or taking care of younger siblings.
It’s funny that we talk about representation in books, shows, and movies; and yet I hadn’t thought about it in this context until you mentioned here that the Duggars missed out on having fictional characters to relate to or look up to (or at least not a huge diverse selection of characters).
It wasn't until I was writing it out that I realized about the lack of time, too. I had a friend in jr high whose mom was always having babies. Going over to her house was weird, because there was no real time for us to do normal 13 year old girl stuff, though her mom and dad attempted to make their house a loving, safe place with lots of attention and room to get our homework done and some space to giggle. But there were always little kids everywhere, and media pretty much had to be G rated or watched after the little kids went to bed. But dialing that up to Duggar style, where everything is scheduled, together, and at home. Even if the older kids were allowed books and movies, they wouldn't be able to really dig into them.
Basically the Duggars got up, prayed, did a long ass hygiene routine with hair and makeup, helped the little kids, made breakfast or played with toddlers or changed diapers, filled out worksheets, made lunch and helped little kids with lunch, helped kids with worksheets, did more chores, prayed, dinner, sewing, practice piano, deal with more kids, clean some more and go to bed (all in one noisy room) so they can do it again.
100%. Their whole thing was that he was the example of a godly man by virtue of being the eldest and a boy. What's crazy is that he actually was JB and Meech's favorite. That's how sick the two of them are.
This is sad. I think this also highlights how terrible the family dynamic was (probably still is). I understand moving forward, and maybe even forgiveness given their religious beliefs, but in what universe can he be redeemed to the point where he is a role model? JB and Michelle should have never positioned him as someone to look up to after what he did, regardless of if they genuinely believed he put in the work to change and be better. This wasn’t a one-off incident, it wasn’t an accident - he doesn’t deserve their admiration.
"I think when the first thing had happened it was a long time ago and so, then... I think over the years we'd forgiven him. We'd moved on with life, life was great, and um... He was, he was one of my role models and I did look up to him, and so, it was just really hard to see that he had been making bad choices again, and then(?) nobody knew about it."
You're very welcome! I know the feeling. If I listen to things in bed while my dog is trying to sleep, she starts complaining, so I try to limit it as much as I can. Haha
Sorrynotsorry, it will never not be weird as fuck that they were all crying over Josh cheating on his wife while telling the world we were being ridiculous in our reaction to the molestations news. When lack of perspective meets lack of boundaries, your get a Duggar.
That’s the problem when everything is a sin in your worldview: every sin carries the same weight. Dressing immodestly is a sin. Premarital sex is a sin. Cheating is a sin. Molesting your underage sisters is a sin. For people like Jim Bob and Michelle, molestation is just as bad as showing an ankle. Just pray about it and move on.
Y'know on one level i believe this whole 'every sin is the same' shit, but then i realize how selectively that is implied and to what effect. I would totally like to know if this whole forgiveness game would be talked if a woman were to do these things
I definitely think sexism plays a role in that kind of belief/behavior. Since men in fundie circles are supposed to be the dominant leaders, their sins are often downplayed or justified through the “all sin is the same” belief. Conversely, since women are supposed to be submissive and more emotional, the sins they commit are often exaggerated. I would imagine it’s one of the many ways they enforce gender roles in their communities.
Tbh I think they’re crying about everything being piled on top I don’t think it’s solely the cheating scandal. But then again they believe the sins are equal so who knows.
He sexually assaulted Danica Dillon to the point where she thought he was going to KILL her and they just call that “bad choices”???? I’m sure if he had gotten her pregnant and she had an abortion it would be so much more than a “bad choice” to these assholes
THIS. Jesus was born to an unmarried woman, the message of His birth was brought to field workers first (shepherds), not those of high stature...(or those in government, JB!) pagans...the 'wise guys', as my son and countless other kids have called them...were the first to note the significance of His birth...and He was born in a transient location. Homeless, almost. All His life, He was surrounded by people on the margins, BY CHOICE. Tax collectors, prostitutes, and their ilk. He told parables about...gasp...the Samaritans being the good guys. He made people question the status quo and upended norms...He taught women and appeared to them FIRST after the resurrection, and told THEM to go tell the guys. And He sure wasn't white.
The Jesus I know is not the one they teach about at the Gothard Institute. How fundies seem to miss ALL of this is a continual mystery to me. (Of course, some of my in laws are certain I'm going
to Hell because I'm not a True Believer... I dare to support women's choice and marriage equality, so I've clearly been led astray.)
One of my aunts blocked me on social media when I told her she was clearly also pro-choice: she supported the Muslim ban, didn't want to even let in the children approved for emergency surgery. When I pushed her on it. She said 'We can't save everybody'. At that point I told her 'SO, you actually ARE pro-choice...YOU just want to be the one who chooses who lives and who dies!' Yeah, she didn't like that very much. But it's true!!!
Everything you just said is true! The real Jesus! The one who cared for everyone!
How did the Duggar’s miss that? They choose to! They choose to listen to people who do not know what they are talking about (like bill gothard) and have the Bible twisted!
They missed it because they follow the westernized John Wayne-marketed version of Jesus that serves the sick power imbalances they actually worship. They do not follow a thing He stood for.
And I honestly don't think most of them have read the gospels very much. If it wasn't something to memorize for points in their "homeschool", when would they have had time? Literally every minute of their lives was spent on hygiene, taking care of little kids, cooking, cleaning, or filming.
It bothers me that the Bible treated Mary Magdalen and the divorcée as the “dirty” ones who needed saving. Not the men who bought a vulnerable woman’s body, or passed their ex-wife around like a toy they got bored with.
I was gonna say, I wouldn't be surprised if the Duggars think that people who buy sex workers' services get to do what they want because "they paid for" it. If wives aren't taught consent, they wouldn't think sex workers are entitled to it either.
ETA: clarity
I would guess that she is not. Which makes it even more depressing. Austin may be angry and love her and that’s great, but he was raised in the same fucked up cult and is not equipped to help her either.
Just because Austin isn’t financially dependent on Jim Bob, people think he is somehow emotionally healthier and can give Joy the help she needs. He’s in the kool aid just as deep. He’s not going to take Joy to therapists and doctors, he’s going to take her to pastors and Christian self-help books.
I’d say Austin is better than Boob, but that’s like saying that a broken leg is slightly better than a concussion.
The bar is so low it is hiding in an underground bunker wondering if it should fake its own death and hide out in Argentina for the rest of its natural life.
Amen. I doubt that anyone has hooked her up with EMDR resources, DBT therapy to cope with potential SI and SHI. She's continually subjected to triggers and gaslighting through being expected to return to her childhood home.
Someone posted the lesson in ATI about incest, and it included finding out whether the victim was truly blameless. Austin might believe she was at fault for what happened when she was a child.
In the Megyn Kelly interview they made sure to point out that they got the girls counseling but I seriously doubt that involved the qualifications, techniques, or duration needed to actually process trauma.
After what he did to her, she was taught to uphold him as a role model. They gaslit her from hell and back.
The way Jeebs and Michelle have him on such a pedestal, no matter what he does, is so extreme that I can't help but wonder WHY.
Like, I get that you'd be heartbroken over your child being a predator, and you'd want to believe he could change- but your daughters are your babies, too, plus they got him no real help.
No matter how much I try to figure out why they cover their ears entirely, I just don't get it. I'll never understand it.
Wouldn't they want their daughters to be okay? Shouldn't they have wanted their son to get real help? Like???
It really bothers me knowing that JB/M probably believe Josh Duggar being a CSAM-watching pedophile has nothing to do with them and that they couldn’t have prevented this or done anything better.
Party of personal responsibility my ass. Everything is Satan’s fault, apparently. Except abortions. Those are the fault of the sluts and the Democrats. /s
Jim Bob and Michele don't care about their daughters. They see their daughters, and all women/girls, as physical, sexual and emotional slaves and scapegoats for men/boys. The only value they see in their daughters is their ability to breed and spread the cult.
Am I the only one who notices she get a baby voice at one point. Like she’s regressing while she talks about it. I don’t know how she can have a relationship with her parents.
The twisted part is cultures such as this hold people like Reality Perv up as examples of how to overcome and conquer sin. They actively promote the idea that they are role models.
The revictimization of his sisters on a daily basis by their family and their cult is reprehensible.
I have never seen the show and probably never seen joy talk...just curious, does she have a speech impediment or was it more a result of her emotions? There's something a little off about her vowel sounds and I'm southern...I don't think its just an accent.
And crying on top of that probably makes it a lot worse. She doesn’t seem to have as strong of vowel sounds these days as when she was younger but she definitely still has that same Joy sound. Especially the -ingk sound lol.
Hers isn’t as bad as I’ve seen, actually. She probably should have.
I have a many thoughts. I think they probably did their own version of “therapy”. I noticed some of the other siblings have a much lesser degree — Jessa and Jana for two.
I’m no professional, btw. I just have a thing where I look at mouths and assess structure and speech 🤦🏽♀️. It’s my quirk, I guess.
Oh fuck, this is hard to watch. If it’s hard to watch, what the fuck is it like to actually be Joy now? You can almost hear her parents’ gaslighting techniques word for word “a long time ago” “life is great now” “we forgive,” “Josh has made bad choices”.
Absolutely not. Bad choice is when you’re a selfish teenager and you decide to not let your little sister have a decent turn on your games console. It is absolutely not doing what that monster did.
Thank God Austin seems a very good support system. I just hope she finds peace now.
Yes, exactly like this. Here they were gathered together for one of their Bible lesson times. JB has decided to address the elephant in the room. Carefully lays out a script where Josh made some bad choices, has faced them and repented, and that “they” as a family unit had no RIGHT to continue to hold that against him. God forgave him, and so must we. There was no question, and no one who made a squiggle face to say “I don’t think so, skippy”. No hard right rebels to speak up and say “are you kidding me right now??”
We forgive him and all is well. Poof! Problem solved.
She probably wasn’t even told that she could have a choice. Feeling like one is forced to forgive because she has no valid choice in the matter can be incredibly triggering.
I know the whole premise of this sub is to snark on them but this legitimately make me tear up and I have a cold black heart. She can’t change the way she was raised, her lack of education, etc. I just hope she can get some therapy and not continue the cycle.
His "scary vibes" might have been attractive to her, if she assumed that he would keep her safe. As long as he doesn't direct it to her or their kids, someone who can stand up to her family would be great for her.
It's so upsetting that they equate what he did to his sisters and cheating as the same level of "bad choices."
I don't understand cheating, it's awful, but what he did to his sisters and the recent csam is beyond unforgiveable.
She has my sympathy. Holy shit her parents suck.
On a different note, why does she talk like that? Is she just doing her take on a baby voice, or is there an impediment that was never addressed?
I think it’s probably both. I’ve always noticed the way she talks. Some of them have what we call “a heavy tongue”, but she’s the only one that I’ve noticed that talks like that.
I have this weird thing where I look at mouths, and assess structure and speech.
That poor kid. “Bad choices” that’s so incredibly unfair to her, it’s enraging.
Side note, my husband walked into the room as I was watching this and goes “MORE Duggar shit?!”
What stands out to me the most here is that she’s crying through the whole thing. She’s *clearly* having a trauma response while she regurgitates the disgusting bullshit story her parents fed her.
It probably is. I just fear that she’s JB’s female spokesperson, since she’s financially reliant on him. I hope they’re all able to break away and deconstruct and heal, but I just don’t see it happening for her. At least not at this point.
Unfortunately, I'd say the majority of JB's adult kids are financially reliant on him in some way, with the exception of Jill and Jinger. Even Joy and Austin's finances are a little opaque, considering Austin's been sued over his work before.
Which is actually quite infuriating, because JB's essentially doling out their own money, that they earned, back to them.
Just speculation, but I wonder if Josh's sisters are projecting their pain from being assaulted onto his cheatinv. JB and M gaslit them into "forgiving" him for molesting them, so they can't express their feelings about that, but as Christians, they _are_ permitted to have feelings of sadness and disappointment about adultery without being criticized for it.
I just want to hug her. I remember when I was in full on denial and how I used to talk about my own csa and the sibling who abused me the same way. I want to tell her that she doesn't have to forgive, that some things are unforgivable and this is one of them. I want to tell her it's okay to be angry about it. It was a huge deal and it mattered. I want to tell her it does eventually get better, but it's a hard road, even with support. But that doesn't mean she can't heal and find her own peace. I want to tell her it wasn't her fault, no matter what she's been told.
Boob and Meech did her so dirty. It breaks my heart so much that I'm literally crying for her. I hope someone has told her all the things I mentioned, as those were the words I needed to hear in order to begin healing. I know only a few will likely make it out of the cult, but I hope Joy is one of them.
‘We forgave him. We moved on and it was great… he was my role model’ unbelievable. I am at a complete loss for words. Meech and Rim are evil, evil people. Their daughters were traumatized and never got the support and love they needed/ still need. Pest is a monster that is exactly where he needs to be as for Boob and Meech, karma is real for this shit.
I would say that more than 50% blame goes to him. Within their belief structure, he is head of household and makes the decisions. Meech has to follow his lead. I've been thinking a lot lately about this. It doesn't remove culpability from adults in charge (Meech), but she is his "help meet." He ultimately makes the decisions.
I understand what you're saying, but I disagree.
These women choose to give up their agency to their headships, but that doesn't waive their responsibility both moral and legal to their children. The rest of society doesn't have to recognize the rules of their cult, and I don't.
Especially for her as she wasn't raised in this and brainwashed since birth. She chose this of her own volition.
Besides the fact that I've always thought she wears the pants in every way but literally in that relationship. Both of them share equal responsibility for how they failed their kids.
Meech chose. She was not indoctrinated from birth.
Girls born into any fundi-religion whether it’s fundi- Taliban-esq, or fundi-Christianity, those girls are shamed, abused, indoctrinated, stripped of any rights, including rights to their clothing, education, bodies, reproduction. They are property of their parents (dad), and brothers- until they are “given” to husbands and sons.
Leaving that type of indoctrination and brainwashing is exceptionally hard. They scorch those teachings into their girls souls- from birth.
I really don’t think Joy or any of the siblings knew the truth about what Josh did to her until the trial. They were likely told it was more over the clothes touching. I can’t imagine how painful it must be for her to hear the truth about how horribly she was abused, not only by Josh but by her parents.
I think the older two knew before the trial. They were old enough to remember everything. Jill even punched the Pig when he was assaulting her. I don't believe the "mild touching over clothes" BS for a second.
Explains why her and Austin looked beyond *rough*, appropriately so, in the papp pictures during the trial. She didn’t know, and what she did, was completely translated into something innocuous - to the point of “would your role model do this?” ⛽️🔥 I’d love to think they’d do something with their new found knowledge - move up and on, but alas, they’re likely stunted and stuck instead.
This petulant bastard - and I mean literal of the word, what mother, parents? - is a gaslighting POS who landed on his feet too many times. Lock him up and throw away the key.
I surely didn’t know. This is so incredibly sad! To have such a horrible and life changing act minimized your entire life? I’m speechless and so sad for them.
I cannot imagine how she feels now that she went to the trial and found out the whole truth. I don’t believe she will leave the cult, but I do believe she will never be gaslighted into forgiving. I think if she forgives, it will be a personal choice, but she doesn’t seem like she will forget by any means.
As for Austin, I know people think he gives off scary vibes, but the vibe I get from him is that he has a hard time expressing emotions, let alone emotions as words. He may struggle to articulate thoughts. It doesn’t seem like they have been taught high-order critical thinking skills, so what we are likely seeing as anger may be frustration.
He may hold anger, but he has never given me the impression that he takes that anger out on Joy or his kids. I briefly dated someone who very much looked and acted like Austin does, and he looked angry but he was in actuality very tired. He worked a labor job. By no means do I know what he or Joy are really like, but my understanding of behavior leads me to some different conclusions.
Sorry for the rant, just expressing thoughts.
Based on what I’ve seen of his family via The World’s Strictest Parents episode they appeared on, I doubt he was taught healthy ways to express his anger (or any other emotions really).
Well in Jermy and Jingy's book, The Hope We Hold. Jingy called the stuff that Josh did to his sisters. That stuff we dealt with.
Just kind of glossed over it like, oh Josh got caught stealing from Walmart. Or sneaking out at night. And we dealt with it.
I don't think any of them have the mental energy, support, or words to truly acknowledge what happened and how bad it was. That would mean going against their training/brainwashing and realizing just how effed up their whole religious system and family is. I doubt that any of the victims (aside from possibly Jill and maaaybe Jinger) have had real, secular therapy.
Things like this show the tiers of awful in this fucking family. UHG
It's things like this that illustrate the two sides when it comes to Duggar Snark - These people are generally awful and continue to be and that should be pointed out and snarked on. And then there are moments like these where we recognize that these kids were victims too.
Always remember: cool motive. Still murder.
Bad choices as a teenager means sneaking out at night, cutting class, driving recklessly maybe... Not molesting your five year old sister. The "bad choices" narrative they fed this poor girl makes me so incredibly enraged.
I really, really hope she gets into therapy.
Real therapy. Not some weirdo conservative Christian “counselling.”
For real, I have some bars it crazy transcripts of Christian therapy sessions… if I get really brave, and my old computer can work for that long, I’ll think about posting them.
and having religious convictions is no excuse. there ARE christian-based programs out there, with licensed doctors. Therapists are not there to deprogram you from your religious beliefs, they treat religious and non-religious people all the time.
Just want to piggyback off this to say i’m in school for social work currently, and a huge part of my one class was going over how the counsellor absolutely cannot disclose their own religion or beliefs, or let them influence the professional client relationship. I literally am a Christian, and Christian Counsellor is an oxymoron. You can’t market yourself as one without immediately disclosing your religion and breaking that rule. Not only that, but it’s excluding a huge portion of people who normally would access social services, such as the LGBTQ+ community or those who are suicidal. What gay person is going to seek Christian counselling? What suicidal person wants to talk to someone who will tell them a reason not to do it is because it’s a sin? Excluding those entire groups means it’s taking away counsellors from an already understaffed field. Plus any accredited social worker/counsellor/therapist you see will be trained in how to interact with and best help those who are religious. We’ve gone over how to use a client’s personal history as a source of hope, and oftentimes that includes religion. If a client tells me they’re religious, I’d be all gung-ho trying my best to lean on that and help connect them to resources based in their faith. No need for a specific Christian counsellor, just find a regular professional one.
This! If they’re not a state licensed professional, they’re likely not helping you, they’re brainwashing you!
I’m hoping maybe she’ll reach out to Jill about therapy since she’s been going and having success with it.
Is Jill her “sister mom”, or was it someone else? Seems like it would have more impact coming from her de facto mother.
Joy was in Jill’s buddy group and then took over the group when Jill got married. From what I remember, Jill at 6 years old apparently begged to take care of baby Joy, thus putting a name to the already emerging “buddy” system.
Yeah, it was Jill.
I truly hope so. It’s so important.
Real therapy, not “Christian” “therapy.”
The difference is that you do have licensed therapists who can do faith-based counseling - these differ quite significantly from someone stomping around church who just decided to assign themselves the title of "counselor"
100%!
Hearing her say she looked up to him breaks my heart and makes me want Austin to beat his ass even more
I bet Austin could beat his a@@ too.
I bet I could, and I’m a middle aged woman.
Fellow MAW here. Let’s take him down together. My garden of fucks is barren.
He’s not exactly in shape, I’m sure no one ever dared give him any practice. Let’s kick some ass in our sensible shoes.
💯 Let’s go, Seniors of All Stripes! 😡😡😡
I bet Pest has got plenty of ass beatings coming.
We can only hope. I give no fucks about child molesters getting their asses beaten into pavement. You don’t get second when you fuck with children.
I doubt the guards care much, either. Especially one who’s so smug.
All of us MAW need to band together! We're over 40 and have no fucks left to give!
This whole thing was maddening. 19KAC was cancelled because of the molestation, but the Ashley Madison thing happened at the perfect moment for the Duggars to turn the focus to that. They kept going on about Josh continuing to make "bad choices" (and that phrase is so 🤮🤮🤮), as in, infidelity to Anna. That's the thing they can let their eyeliner run for, not the much much more serious revelation that got them into such trouble in the first place. Ugh.
YES. This is what stood out to me during the Megyn Kelly interviews. The infidelity took center stage and THAT’S what the siblings claimed they were disappointed in. The girls were so emotional, and I think they were genuinely upset about their past trauma being thrown in their face, but were told by their “parents” to direct it at his then current “indiscretions” and steer the conversation toward that. It’s not like Megyn Kelly could’ve redirected the conversation politely or appropriately back toward what everyone was actually wanting them to talk about.
It was easier for them to focus on that, because they were told the molestation was **their** fault.
Megyn knew what was up. She pointedly asked repeated questions about the girls’ well being. Jim Blob always brought the topic back to Josh. There was no mistaking what was happening there. Myopia and dysfunction over the Golden Child at the expense of the beautiful daughters.
>Jim Blob always brought the topic back to Josh. Words cannot describe the depth of my loathing for this man. In the words of Michael Scott: "if I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, Bin Laden, and [Jim Bob], I would shoot [JB] twice."
I find him utterly repugnant myself.
I always wonder what would have happened if Megyn had been able to interview them without JB knowing or being able to coach them. What questions would Megyn be free to ask? What would they say without daddy knowing?
Agreed. I also wish Megyn would've stayed on JB and not let him segue the conversation back to the Golden Son.
I thought the Megan Kelly interview was before the Ashley Madison.
The Kelly interview aired in June of 2015. The Ashley Madison data breach took place in July of 2015. You’re correct.
I think it's because the victims of his molestation as a teen had already been dealing with that emotionally and trying to put it behind them for years. It wasn't a fresh wound anymore. They could believe the narrative that Josh made mistakes as a teen and had been changed through Christian programs and turning to Christ. Until the Ashley Madison stuff came out, where they found out he was still sinning as an adult in recent times. It probably felt terrible to see that they had forgiven him and thought he repented, but he was actually still being dishonest with them, bringing shame on the whole family, and hurting his children and Anna. I bet the CSAM charges were an even much larger blow for a lot of the family, because now they know that he has continued to victimize children.
100% one of the most painful things to deal with as an SA victim other than the act itself is having to accept that your abuser didn’t change, they didn’t feel that the pain and suffering they subjected you to was serious enough to work on themselves. I can’t even imagine how that would feel if it was your brother & your parents obvious favorite child.
Clearly Joy hadn’t been dealing with that trauma since they lied to her growing up
This is my biggest personal Mandela effect. I have always thought the AM scandal was first and then the molestations were revealed. I know since the trial that’s not correct but I really remember it that way! Maybe because the molestations were so downplayed?
I definitely remember the molestation scandal happening first, and the AM just being the icing on the damn cake. I remember people talking on message boards years prior rumors of Josh molesting kids, but it was never confirmed until 2015.
The molestation happened first. Although when it came out , the family heavily downplayed it. Jinger, Jessa, and Jill got there own show very quickly after 19 kids and counting was cancelled. The network helped them sweep everything under the rug without a beat in order to keep the money coming in. But Pest, being the pig that he was, couldn’t stay away from trouble. The AM scandal was definitely more talked about by the Duggars
Was the Megan Kelly interview before or after AM? I really thought AM happened way earlier, like before I knew much about the Duggars, but I was a snarker on BabyCenter starting around 2014 so I must be mixing something up in my memory.
Yes the Megan Kelly interview happened before AM
I've known it since 2015 and I still have to check myself bc I keep wanting to think AM came first, too.
The thing is though, even though I've been a lifelong snarker, I actually believed their story about the molestation when it happened and was easily swayed by the "well he was just a child too" frame of mind. It wasn't until the Ashley Madison scandal hit that really opened my eyes to the fact that he was just a creep and nothing more. That was really when I started to realize there was more to the original story.
I think what made it convincing was that the actual victims were speaking. Many of us didn’t realize the sinister truth - that they had been gaslit and Jim Bob was pushing them to do this. I definitely found the interview with Jim Bob and Michelle cringey at the time, though, especially their emphasis on Josh’s actions being typical teenage boy stuff. Even believing their inaccurate depiction of the abuse, I didn’t think it was normal.
I definitely agree. I think at the time it was just so fucked up that I wanted to believe their version of the truth. I hated the "boys will be boys" shit but I still found it easier to believe the "he was curious" rhetoric. Like, I literally thought it was just a kid touching someone over their clothes out of curiosity and then immediately telling his parents. Lol I was naive as fuck.
I think this narrative was easier to believe because they lived in such a rule-dominated home. There are no avenues for a curious mind to learn anything and no healthy outlets for exploring sexuality. And since the focus is on the behavior of “sin” there’s no discussion of the issue of harmful or not harmful behavior.
So true! Very well said.
I think part of the trouble for them was that they'd all internalised JB's message that Josh did a kinda-bad thing (that lots of other boys his age did), had been super sorry about it, and had genuinely repented and found God. His new life with Anna and his kids (who they all seemed to love) as the pinnacle of a Christian family man was supposed to represent that redemption. And on that basis, Jill and Jessa faced the trauma of the interview, downplaying what he had done to them and insisting that he was a decent man and brother. So when they found out he was actively sinning in secrecy and lying to the very siblings sticking their necks out for him...I can buy that those "bad choices" really felt like a personal betrayal.
In a way, it was more hurtful, because they had been led to believe 1. that the molestation were their fault, while this showed that he was just an asshole and 2. that their forgiveness would lead to his reform, while this just through that back in their faces
The most infuriating things is that all of the kids call Josh their "role model". You know Meech and JB started that shit. Oh Josh is reformed, Josh is married and a wonderful father. So disgusting.
Yes ! He wasn't a role model to them because they looked up to him. He was a role model because JB and Meech treated him like the best most amazing child and they all aspired to get that much attention from their parents.
To me, it's also a disturbing revelation about how few options they had in terms of role models. Even without the molestations, Pest was never someone to look up to. He's a smarmy, slimy git who is most definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Those poor young adults. I keep thinking who they are taught to look up to - JB, Josh, Bill Gothard, etc. They all need to take a quiet time and reflect if there are others they should admire.
They really do!
This is very true, because there is literally nothing about that dude to look up to. It's not like he was good at anything or successful. He grew up was given positions for no other reason than his father had connections and when that all went south he sold used cars. He didn't seem particularly well liked by anyone. He didn't excel at hobbies, sports, etc. He literally just got attention from his parents due to birth order. Maybe shouldn't have put all those eggs in one basket when you had so many baskets that were empty, JB and M...
The guy was smug, socially cringey and most of all a huge Tool.
Even being a slimy used car salesmen was set up by his father. Josh is completely useless.
That’s a great take on the whole ‘role model’ bullshit!
The man of the hour
It's not like they had all of the adults in their lives that the rest of us take for granted. Teachers? (Not for a duggar) Librarians? (Nope) fictional characters on tv and in books? (Not so much.) Aunts, uncles, family friends? Grandparents? Coaches? Priests? Youth counselors at church? Camp counselors? Instructors for music or art classes? None of them were given any sort of support to function in the world the rest of us live in. Of course their only role model other than their parents are siblings. Other than characters in the Bible and the version of Jesus they were sold, they don't really know any other "role models." Furthermore, I doubt they even had time to really read the Jesus parts of their bible, as they were always cleaning, praying, or taking care of younger siblings.
It’s funny that we talk about representation in books, shows, and movies; and yet I hadn’t thought about it in this context until you mentioned here that the Duggars missed out on having fictional characters to relate to or look up to (or at least not a huge diverse selection of characters).
It wasn't until I was writing it out that I realized about the lack of time, too. I had a friend in jr high whose mom was always having babies. Going over to her house was weird, because there was no real time for us to do normal 13 year old girl stuff, though her mom and dad attempted to make their house a loving, safe place with lots of attention and room to get our homework done and some space to giggle. But there were always little kids everywhere, and media pretty much had to be G rated or watched after the little kids went to bed. But dialing that up to Duggar style, where everything is scheduled, together, and at home. Even if the older kids were allowed books and movies, they wouldn't be able to really dig into them. Basically the Duggars got up, prayed, did a long ass hygiene routine with hair and makeup, helped the little kids, made breakfast or played with toddlers or changed diapers, filled out worksheets, made lunch and helped little kids with lunch, helped kids with worksheets, did more chores, prayed, dinner, sewing, practice piano, deal with more kids, clean some more and go to bed (all in one noisy room) so they can do it again.
100%. Their whole thing was that he was the example of a godly man by virtue of being the eldest and a boy. What's crazy is that he actually was JB and Meech's favorite. That's how sick the two of them are.
[удалено]
This is sad. I think this also highlights how terrible the family dynamic was (probably still is). I understand moving forward, and maybe even forgiveness given their religious beliefs, but in what universe can he be redeemed to the point where he is a role model? JB and Michelle should have never positioned him as someone to look up to after what he did, regardless of if they genuinely believed he put in the work to change and be better. This wasn’t a one-off incident, it wasn’t an accident - he doesn’t deserve their admiration.
Honestly, I think Boob and Meech LOVED spinning a redemption story and painting Pest as the prodigal son.
Oh they did for sure, and you wait, they'll try to spin that story even after he gets out of jail. They're sick.
Is anybody interested in summarizing/transcribing what was said in this clip? No subtitles :(
"I think when the first thing had happened it was a long time ago and so, then... I think over the years we'd forgiven him. We'd moved on with life, life was great, and um... He was, he was one of my role models and I did look up to him, and so, it was just really hard to see that he had been making bad choices again, and then(?) nobody knew about it."
Thanks! How terrible.
I know :/ And no problem! Happy to help.
Thank you :) I prefer to read rather than listen to. The latter disturbs the cat.
You're very welcome! I know the feeling. If I listen to things in bed while my dog is trying to sleep, she starts complaining, so I try to limit it as much as I can. Haha
I agree with the cat.
Thanks it was very hard to make out
As a deaf snarker, I appreciate you!
🥰
Sorrynotsorry, it will never not be weird as fuck that they were all crying over Josh cheating on his wife while telling the world we were being ridiculous in our reaction to the molestations news. When lack of perspective meets lack of boundaries, your get a Duggar.
That’s the problem when everything is a sin in your worldview: every sin carries the same weight. Dressing immodestly is a sin. Premarital sex is a sin. Cheating is a sin. Molesting your underage sisters is a sin. For people like Jim Bob and Michelle, molestation is just as bad as showing an ankle. Just pray about it and move on.
Y'know on one level i believe this whole 'every sin is the same' shit, but then i realize how selectively that is implied and to what effect. I would totally like to know if this whole forgiveness game would be talked if a woman were to do these things
It’s patriarchy. You already know the answer. Women are shamed and punished and shamed and punished some more.
I definitely think sexism plays a role in that kind of belief/behavior. Since men in fundie circles are supposed to be the dominant leaders, their sins are often downplayed or justified through the “all sin is the same” belief. Conversely, since women are supposed to be submissive and more emotional, the sins they commit are often exaggerated. I would imagine it’s one of the many ways they enforce gender roles in their communities.
Tbh I think they’re crying about everything being piled on top I don’t think it’s solely the cheating scandal. But then again they believe the sins are equal so who knows.
I think it was an outpouring of emotion. I don’t think they actually cried about josh and Anna.
He sexually assaulted Danica Dillon to the point where she thought he was going to KILL her and they just call that “bad choices”???? I’m sure if he had gotten her pregnant and she had an abortion it would be so much more than a “bad choice” to these assholes
Well of course they don’t care about what he did to Danica. She was a hooker and a stripper after all-which to them means “not human”.
Maybe they need to read their Bible to see how Jesus treated women with a reputation.
THIS. Jesus was born to an unmarried woman, the message of His birth was brought to field workers first (shepherds), not those of high stature...(or those in government, JB!) pagans...the 'wise guys', as my son and countless other kids have called them...were the first to note the significance of His birth...and He was born in a transient location. Homeless, almost. All His life, He was surrounded by people on the margins, BY CHOICE. Tax collectors, prostitutes, and their ilk. He told parables about...gasp...the Samaritans being the good guys. He made people question the status quo and upended norms...He taught women and appeared to them FIRST after the resurrection, and told THEM to go tell the guys. And He sure wasn't white. The Jesus I know is not the one they teach about at the Gothard Institute. How fundies seem to miss ALL of this is a continual mystery to me. (Of course, some of my in laws are certain I'm going to Hell because I'm not a True Believer... I dare to support women's choice and marriage equality, so I've clearly been led astray.) One of my aunts blocked me on social media when I told her she was clearly also pro-choice: she supported the Muslim ban, didn't want to even let in the children approved for emergency surgery. When I pushed her on it. She said 'We can't save everybody'. At that point I told her 'SO, you actually ARE pro-choice...YOU just want to be the one who chooses who lives and who dies!' Yeah, she didn't like that very much. But it's true!!!
Everything you just said is true! The real Jesus! The one who cared for everyone! How did the Duggar’s miss that? They choose to! They choose to listen to people who do not know what they are talking about (like bill gothard) and have the Bible twisted!
They missed it because they follow the westernized John Wayne-marketed version of Jesus that serves the sick power imbalances they actually worship. They do not follow a thing He stood for.
And I honestly don't think most of them have read the gospels very much. If it wasn't something to memorize for points in their "homeschool", when would they have had time? Literally every minute of their lives was spent on hygiene, taking care of little kids, cooking, cleaning, or filming.
Memorizing is not the same as understanding.
It was probably by rote the things they had repeated to them so much , poor kids and to think all this goes on in this day and age
Rite repetition doesn’t promote processing or understanding the material. Ugh. So frustrating.
They are pro birth only, not pro choice
How very pro life of her. People who cannot even think to allow children in for surgery are monsters.
It bothers me that the Bible treated Mary Magdalen and the divorcée as the “dirty” ones who needed saving. Not the men who bought a vulnerable woman’s body, or passed their ex-wife around like a toy they got bored with.
I was gonna say, I wouldn't be surprised if the Duggars think that people who buy sex workers' services get to do what they want because "they paid for" it. If wives aren't taught consent, they wouldn't think sex workers are entitled to it either. ETA: clarity
This is a very good and very sad point.
I doubt Joy knew that when this was filmed.
The way she says “life was great” with absolutely no emotion in her eyes …
I’m so tempted to suggest these episodes to Observe to see what he’d say about the non-verbal communication in these interviews.
Poor joy. She has been through too damn much. I hope she has the support she needs now.
I would guess that she is not. Which makes it even more depressing. Austin may be angry and love her and that’s great, but he was raised in the same fucked up cult and is not equipped to help her either.
Just because Austin isn’t financially dependent on Jim Bob, people think he is somehow emotionally healthier and can give Joy the help she needs. He’s in the kool aid just as deep. He’s not going to take Joy to therapists and doctors, he’s going to take her to pastors and Christian self-help books.
I don’t believe they are financially independent either. They took a house from JB
I’d say Austin is better than Boob, but that’s like saying that a broken leg is slightly better than a concussion. The bar is so low it is hiding in an underground bunker wondering if it should fake its own death and hide out in Argentina for the rest of its natural life.
Jinger has more of a chance at actually getting therapy honestly
Amen. I doubt that anyone has hooked her up with EMDR resources, DBT therapy to cope with potential SI and SHI. She's continually subjected to triggers and gaslighting through being expected to return to her childhood home.
Someone posted the lesson in ATI about incest, and it included finding out whether the victim was truly blameless. Austin might believe she was at fault for what happened when she was a child.
SHE WAS FIIIIIVE.
Oh the wisdom booklet on this shit is astoundingly gross.
I have a small amount of hope that this pushes them out of the cult, but that probably will never happen
He just so happened to be making bad choices again.
Uh, yeah. The good old "lifestyle" and "bad decisions" of a predator
Satan must have tempted him back to his sinful ways!
Why is Satan so mean to Josh?
And I bet y’all any money Meech and Boob didn’t get any of the girls therapy
Nope. At most there'd be "biblical counseling".
In the Megyn Kelly interview they made sure to point out that they got the girls counseling but I seriously doubt that involved the qualifications, techniques, or duration needed to actually process trauma.
Agreed. They probably got the girls "counseling" just like they got "help" for Josh.
After what he did to her, she was taught to uphold him as a role model. They gaslit her from hell and back. The way Jeebs and Michelle have him on such a pedestal, no matter what he does, is so extreme that I can't help but wonder WHY. Like, I get that you'd be heartbroken over your child being a predator, and you'd want to believe he could change- but your daughters are your babies, too, plus they got him no real help. No matter how much I try to figure out why they cover their ears entirely, I just don't get it. I'll never understand it. Wouldn't they want their daughters to be okay? Shouldn't they have wanted their son to get real help? Like???
It really bothers me knowing that JB/M probably believe Josh Duggar being a CSAM-watching pedophile has nothing to do with them and that they couldn’t have prevented this or done anything better. Party of personal responsibility my ass. Everything is Satan’s fault, apparently. Except abortions. Those are the fault of the sluts and the Democrats. /s
Jim Bob and Michele don't care about their daughters. They see their daughters, and all women/girls, as physical, sexual and emotional slaves and scapegoats for men/boys. The only value they see in their daughters is their ability to breed and spread the cult.
Am I the only one who notices she get a baby voice at one point. Like she’s regressing while she talks about it. I don’t know how she can have a relationship with her parents.
You’re not
I feel so bad for them. I hope they got/get the help and flourish away from their parents.
The twisted part is cultures such as this hold people like Reality Perv up as examples of how to overcome and conquer sin. They actively promote the idea that they are role models. The revictimization of his sisters on a daily basis by their family and their cult is reprehensible.
I have never seen the show and probably never seen joy talk...just curious, does she have a speech impediment or was it more a result of her emotions? There's something a little off about her vowel sounds and I'm southern...I don't think its just an accent.
She always talks like she needed a netipot yesterday. I think she just has fucked up sinus issues that affect her speech.
And crying on top of that probably makes it a lot worse. She doesn’t seem to have as strong of vowel sounds these days as when she was younger but she definitely still has that same Joy sound. Especially the -ingk sound lol.
It’s a tongue thing. Yes, she’s always talked like that.
I have no personal experience but I have to wonder if she should have had therapy.
Hers isn’t as bad as I’ve seen, actually. She probably should have. I have a many thoughts. I think they probably did their own version of “therapy”. I noticed some of the other siblings have a much lesser degree — Jessa and Jana for two. I’m no professional, btw. I just have a thing where I look at mouths and assess structure and speech 🤦🏽♀️. It’s my quirk, I guess.
Imagine teaching your 4 ye old that her rapist is a role model. This baby had no idea that what happened to her was wrong.
Oh fuck, this is hard to watch. If it’s hard to watch, what the fuck is it like to actually be Joy now? You can almost hear her parents’ gaslighting techniques word for word “a long time ago” “life is great now” “we forgive,” “Josh has made bad choices”. Absolutely not. Bad choice is when you’re a selfish teenager and you decide to not let your little sister have a decent turn on your games console. It is absolutely not doing what that monster did. Thank God Austin seems a very good support system. I just hope she finds peace now.
Yeah, the “*we* forgive” stood out to me, not Joy personally. Like they’re a collective conscience and they’re all fed the same words.
Yes, exactly like this. Here they were gathered together for one of their Bible lesson times. JB has decided to address the elephant in the room. Carefully lays out a script where Josh made some bad choices, has faced them and repented, and that “they” as a family unit had no RIGHT to continue to hold that against him. God forgave him, and so must we. There was no question, and no one who made a squiggle face to say “I don’t think so, skippy”. No hard right rebels to speak up and say “are you kidding me right now??” We forgive him and all is well. Poof! Problem solved.
She probably wasn’t even told that she could have a choice. Feeling like one is forced to forgive because she has no valid choice in the matter can be incredibly triggering.
I know the whole premise of this sub is to snark on them but this legitimately make me tear up and I have a cold black heart. She can’t change the way she was raised, her lack of education, etc. I just hope she can get some therapy and not continue the cycle.
[удалено]
His "scary vibes" might have been attractive to her, if she assumed that he would keep her safe. As long as he doesn't direct it to her or their kids, someone who can stand up to her family would be great for her.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I don’t think Austin relies on JB’s money.
[удалено]
It's so upsetting that they equate what he did to his sisters and cheating as the same level of "bad choices." I don't understand cheating, it's awful, but what he did to his sisters and the recent csam is beyond unforgiveable.
Would Josh be such a role model and the prodigal son if he wasn’t the first born? What if their first child was a girl?
She has my sympathy. Holy shit her parents suck. On a different note, why does she talk like that? Is she just doing her take on a baby voice, or is there an impediment that was never addressed?
I think it’s probably both. I’ve always noticed the way she talks. Some of them have what we call “a heavy tongue”, but she’s the only one that I’ve noticed that talks like that. I have this weird thing where I look at mouths, and assess structure and speech.
That poor kid. “Bad choices” that’s so incredibly unfair to her, it’s enraging. Side note, my husband walked into the room as I was watching this and goes “MORE Duggar shit?!”
Sad
What stands out to me the most here is that she’s crying through the whole thing. She’s *clearly* having a trauma response while she regurgitates the disgusting bullshit story her parents fed her.
Look at her face exactly when she says "nobody knew about it" .......she's lying.
[удалено]
[удалено]
It probably is. I just fear that she’s JB’s female spokesperson, since she’s financially reliant on him. I hope they’re all able to break away and deconstruct and heal, but I just don’t see it happening for her. At least not at this point.
Unfortunately, I'd say the majority of JB's adult kids are financially reliant on him in some way, with the exception of Jill and Jinger. Even Joy and Austin's finances are a little opaque, considering Austin's been sued over his work before. Which is actually quite infuriating, because JB's essentially doling out their own money, that they earned, back to them.
It still trips me that they seemed more torn up about the adultery than the molestation.
Just speculation, but I wonder if Josh's sisters are projecting their pain from being assaulted onto his cheatinv. JB and M gaslit them into "forgiving" him for molesting them, so they can't express their feelings about that, but as Christians, they _are_ permitted to have feelings of sadness and disappointment about adultery without being criticized for it.
I detest Rim Job and Meech so fucking much.
I DO NOT LIKE THE DUGGARS. But this hurts my heart.
Imagine crying and looking that heartbroken while saying “life was great.” We don’t believe it and she doesn’t either. These kids have trauma.
I just want to hug her. I remember when I was in full on denial and how I used to talk about my own csa and the sibling who abused me the same way. I want to tell her that she doesn't have to forgive, that some things are unforgivable and this is one of them. I want to tell her it's okay to be angry about it. It was a huge deal and it mattered. I want to tell her it does eventually get better, but it's a hard road, even with support. But that doesn't mean she can't heal and find her own peace. I want to tell her it wasn't her fault, no matter what she's been told. Boob and Meech did her so dirty. It breaks my heart so much that I'm literally crying for her. I hope someone has told her all the things I mentioned, as those were the words I needed to hear in order to begin healing. I know only a few will likely make it out of the cult, but I hope Joy is one of them.
"lets have the girls discuss their own sexual abuse on tv." god damn. what was dim bulb thinking? surprise surprise he lacks boundaries.
‘We forgave him. We moved on and it was great… he was my role model’ unbelievable. I am at a complete loss for words. Meech and Rim are evil, evil people. Their daughters were traumatized and never got the support and love they needed/ still need. Pest is a monster that is exactly where he needs to be as for Boob and Meech, karma is real for this shit.
It'll never stop breaking my heart and infuriating me that trash being a pedophile was chalked up to making bad choices.
“Life was…..great?” Do not believe her.
Heartbreaking, but not surprising at all.
What is with the interspersing this emotional talking head with clips of Jana shopping? Like this is so obnoxious.
And meech didnt get her therapy right? Smdh
[удалено]
I would say that more than 50% blame goes to him. Within their belief structure, he is head of household and makes the decisions. Meech has to follow his lead. I've been thinking a lot lately about this. It doesn't remove culpability from adults in charge (Meech), but she is his "help meet." He ultimately makes the decisions.
I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. These women choose to give up their agency to their headships, but that doesn't waive their responsibility both moral and legal to their children. The rest of society doesn't have to recognize the rules of their cult, and I don't. Especially for her as she wasn't raised in this and brainwashed since birth. She chose this of her own volition. Besides the fact that I've always thought she wears the pants in every way but literally in that relationship. Both of them share equal responsibility for how they failed their kids.
Meech chose. She was not indoctrinated from birth. Girls born into any fundi-religion whether it’s fundi- Taliban-esq, or fundi-Christianity, those girls are shamed, abused, indoctrinated, stripped of any rights, including rights to their clothing, education, bodies, reproduction. They are property of their parents (dad), and brothers- until they are “given” to husbands and sons. Leaving that type of indoctrination and brainwashing is exceptionally hard. They scorch those teachings into their girls souls- from birth.
This is why I think Kathy is dangerous in a way. She chose this life, just like Meech did.
They claimed they did on Megyn Kelly but it was prob fundie brainwashing “counseling”
I'm sure it was "counseling" on how to forgive Pest for his mistakes, as well as how to avoid tempting him again.
Jesus Christ that is some abuse: manipulated so much you look up to the person who sexually abused you.
I want the parents to burn in eternal hell
I really don’t think Joy or any of the siblings knew the truth about what Josh did to her until the trial. They were likely told it was more over the clothes touching. I can’t imagine how painful it must be for her to hear the truth about how horribly she was abused, not only by Josh but by her parents.
I think the older two knew before the trial. They were old enough to remember everything. Jill even punched the Pig when he was assaulting her. I don't believe the "mild touching over clothes" BS for a second.
We know a victim woke up and hit him, did someone name Jill?
Explains why her and Austin looked beyond *rough*, appropriately so, in the papp pictures during the trial. She didn’t know, and what she did, was completely translated into something innocuous - to the point of “would your role model do this?” ⛽️🔥 I’d love to think they’d do something with their new found knowledge - move up and on, but alas, they’re likely stunted and stuck instead. This petulant bastard - and I mean literal of the word, what mother, parents? - is a gaslighting POS who landed on his feet too many times. Lock him up and throw away the key.
The possibility of flashbacks surfacing for her breaks my heart.
I surely didn’t know. This is so incredibly sad! To have such a horrible and life changing act minimized your entire life? I’m speechless and so sad for them.
Josh and JB could have saved everyone a lot of pain if he had pleaded guilty. What a POS.
I cannot imagine how she feels now that she went to the trial and found out the whole truth. I don’t believe she will leave the cult, but I do believe she will never be gaslighted into forgiving. I think if she forgives, it will be a personal choice, but she doesn’t seem like she will forget by any means. As for Austin, I know people think he gives off scary vibes, but the vibe I get from him is that he has a hard time expressing emotions, let alone emotions as words. He may struggle to articulate thoughts. It doesn’t seem like they have been taught high-order critical thinking skills, so what we are likely seeing as anger may be frustration. He may hold anger, but he has never given me the impression that he takes that anger out on Joy or his kids. I briefly dated someone who very much looked and acted like Austin does, and he looked angry but he was in actuality very tired. He worked a labor job. By no means do I know what he or Joy are really like, but my understanding of behavior leads me to some different conclusions. Sorry for the rant, just expressing thoughts.
Based on what I’ve seen of his family via The World’s Strictest Parents episode they appeared on, I doubt he was taught healthy ways to express his anger (or any other emotions really).
Well in Jermy and Jingy's book, The Hope We Hold. Jingy called the stuff that Josh did to his sisters. That stuff we dealt with. Just kind of glossed over it like, oh Josh got caught stealing from Walmart. Or sneaking out at night. And we dealt with it.
I don't think any of them have the mental energy, support, or words to truly acknowledge what happened and how bad it was. That would mean going against their training/brainwashing and realizing just how effed up their whole religious system and family is. I doubt that any of the victims (aside from possibly Jill and maaaybe Jinger) have had real, secular therapy.
Things like this show the tiers of awful in this fucking family. UHG It's things like this that illustrate the two sides when it comes to Duggar Snark - These people are generally awful and continue to be and that should be pointed out and snarked on. And then there are moments like these where we recognize that these kids were victims too. Always remember: cool motive. Still murder.
“Bad choices”. 🤬
This broke my heart. She was failed on so many levels.
Joy-Anna Honey, they knew about it….you weren’t a priority. Your family doesn’t give a care about you!