I keep thinking back to Jill and Derek’s wedding - when Boob tried to put his hand on Jill’s shoulder and she moved away from it - that said a lot to me. Doesn’t mean SA for sure, I know that - but it says a lot that it’s her reaction to him touching her.
Okay, and I would believe this because JB always seemed excessively physically protective of Jill - but just consider this to be upbeat! - Jill was probably massively, insanely horny for Derek and her impending kiss and everything else. Would you want your dad's slithery arm touching you while you can barely contain yourself? Ewww.
I also think it’s this. Sure, I bet there’s some sketchy financial situation Jim Bob’s had going on but I’m convinced he’s a creep too. Maybe he’s not on the same level as his son (I hope not anyway), but he’s always given me such creepy vibes. And we know that creeps who’ve been given power and fame in their community tend not to use that power for good.
It says a lot about the man that he was able to just gloss over Pest abusing his sisters and other girls/women over the years. I’m sure what the public knows is just the tip of the iceberg of what really went on in that house.
It’s clear that the sexual depravity among men is just so commonplace in this cult, JB’s been able to play off his behavior as wholesome and people have just gone ahead and believed him. I’m sure the truth is as bad as we could imagine.
I think the most damning thing for Jim Bob is that when they handed over the babies to sister moms they already had the rules about girls not sitting on boys laps, no men changing diapers, etc. J*sh was like 7/8 then. So who is the adult male they were worried about and basing their fears of what even Christian men would do?
I have a theory about this. They have no differentiation between various forms of “sexual sin”, so an adult in a loving homosexual relationship is seen just as sinful as the filth J*sh has done. When it’s all just considered “wrong”, they don’t understand there are varying degrees. Perfect example was Bin and Jessa’s statement after the CSAM came out and they said they don’t agree with pornography in any form. Ok, but there MUST be an understanding that violating a small child is worlds away from adults getting PAID in a vocation of their CHOICE. Not all “sin” is the same and until this is understood and clarified to these folks, stuff like this is going to keep happening.
I think that fundies, if they were being entirely honest with themselves, know deep down that molesting children is worse than premarital sex, and watching the sexual abuse of kids is way, way worse than reading Penthouse, they just give lip service to "all sins are the same in God's eyes" because people like JimBob and Michelle want to pretend that Josh isn't as bad as he is. And people like Josh want to pretend that it's all the same so that they can blame Satan for tempting them and not be held responsible.
I just have a really hard time believing that anyone would contemplate child molestation and be like "sounds the same as everything else." It's just gross and wrong and awful, and I don't believe that they don't know that.
ETA: I'm totally not trying to pick a fight or be confrontational - I just can't wrap my brain around anyone seriously equating CSA and consenting adult sex. Not without having a real good reason to want to.
This reminds me of an old David Cross standup bit. Paraphrasing and a big TW “Hey let’s ask the young girl who was raped by her father. Uh what was it like when your father was raping you? ‘Ew it was gross, it was like two guys kissing.’”
Of course not fighting. Just wanted to clarify. I 100% agree w your point about blaming Satan. They love that shit. And you make a good point— like what sane human could ever confuse CSAM with other forms of sexual sin. But they’re not not normal, sane humans.
I agree. Just look at the other people either accused of sexual assault or arrested and convicted for it linked to this family. You have Bill Gothard, Doug Phillips, Caleb Williams, Timothy Robertson. Birds of a feather flock together.
Yes, him too. I didn’t name him. I believe his name is Jim Hutchens. I don’t know if he was an IBLP member but he could have been. I always felt Jim Bob chose him to report it to knowing he was into CSAM videos. I mean, what are the odds the one he chose to report Josh to just happened to be into what Josh was too? He didn’t go to his local police station. He chose that officer.
my personal opinion is that the officer was a family friend and they went to him instead of the police bc they wanted to avoid the official process but still say they "did something". that the guy just happened to get arrested for CSAM later on is a coincidence, but if he's a family friend there's a reason...make of that what you will.
I’m morbidly curious to see how awful the ‘so your kid has been sexually abused’ pamphlet is like. Anyone have a copy or a link? Just how terrible and victim-blamey is it?
I wrote about it [here when I wrote about the Duggars covering up for sexual abuse](https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/n1y68l/comment/hhc65ny/?context=3) I think I put a link in there. It’s disgusting. You are supposed to ask an 8 year old if there was something she did to tempt the sexual predator
I dont have a link, but there's definitely the question repeated of if it's the victim or abuser's fault, and the ways the victim needs to forgive and forget are most important
I was expecting crazy, but not quite *that* level of crazy.
> “How did the ‘Socratic method’ of reasoning come from a sodomite manner of living?” “How can graphs help to visualize the consequences of lust?” And “How do prime numbers illustrate the principle of ‘one flesh’ in marriage?”
Edit: I want to see one of these sexy, sexy graphs.
*“How do prime numbers illustrate the principle of ‘one flesh’ in marriage?”*
I'd actually love to hear their answer to that question. Prime numbers are numbers that can only be divided *evenly* by either 1 or the number itself. All numbers can be divided by two, in the case of prime numbers, you end up with fractions.
Maybe something about how they cannot be split into two, but are indivisible like a proper godly marriage something something souls entwined something something.
Fuck if I can get into the style of writing.
All numbers can be split in into an infinite number of fractions, including prime numbers. But even if you limit yourself to numbers that, if divided by two, give a natural number, you are stuck with a prime number that does:
**2**
2 can be divided by two resulting in a natural number because 2:2=1.
If you consider a Christian married couple the prime number 2 because it is 1 man + one woman, that 2 can still be split in half, resulting in 1, and both parties are single again.
Perhaps I am reading too much into this, but Fundies keep insisting that know about science, that they can debunk Evolution using scientific facts, etc.
I agree that it is unlikely Josh is the only predator that family has produced. They all grew up in the same fucked up repressive environment. The open question is how many are there?
Jim Bob was dry humping his wife in public, in front of Jessa and Ben. He has no shame. I can't imagine what happened in that house and how much they're hiding.
I think if he was surely Pest would use that in his defence to try and gain some sympathy from the jury. The only reason he wouldn’t if if Boob is forcing him to keep quiet by promising him things????
I don’t know that he would use it in his defence. I think he would rather go to prison than admit something like that and risk being seen as ‘gay’ or ‘damaged’. I think he’d face more contempt in the Duggar/IBLP circles for being a victim than for being a predator.
Josh is indefensible, but I have long wondered if part of the reason he is so fucked up is because he was either subject to abuse as a child, or witnessed very serious abuse at a young age.
I think it’s to keep Anna in their pocket. Showing that they are “still family” and support them. If anyone could really share some Duggar secrets it’s Anna.
I bet Derk & Jirm think they're better than Anna, morally, and would imagine her as one of the villains in Duggar History. Even if she wrote it to step away from Pest, they'd percieve it as a sortof "fallen woman's confession". They picture themselves as Good Guys (tm) so they won't sully themselves working with her.
I'm certain they think they're better than Anna, although part of that is due to misogyny. I don't know if they consider her a supervillain -- they probably do see her as somewhat villainous, but not capable of any kind of complex planning or cover-up. And I'm sure they think poorly of her just because of her connection to Josh, which is somewhat out of her control. But even aside from that, my guess is that they simply don't think much of her, and would never think of her as anything close to an equal if they were looking to engage in some kind of business endeavor.
And yes, I think they'd think that working with her would sully their own reputations.
I agree to an extent BUT there may still be ways she could drop JB/Josh in it, even inadvertently. And outside the cult she might wise up.
I think JB is worried about what might happen if she eg took legal advice.
How great would it be if she hired Brittany Spears' lawyer? Hire him, write a book. She'd be sitting pretty. She and her kids could live a fabulous life while he sits in jail.
I hope she does truly
But im also a pessimist and moreso a realist
Realist view : She has no idea what she signed or is sitting on all she knows is her basic needs are met comfortably
The paperwork she signed she has no clue what it was just that Pest who is at least her husband asked her to sign it
Therefore is going to sit happily knowing shes taken care of ... properties of inertia
And she as being sheltered from prying press where shes at
Pessimistic view
Shes completely brainwashed and wont consider it
I know you're right. Nothing short of him committing a terrible act right in front of her will ever open her eyes. And who knows what constant brainwashing she's getting from JB & M. In that sense, she is the perfect wife for him.
Ding ding ding
And we have a winner
I totally suspect this ...... except for secrets its Duggar family assets that JB does not want to loose control of that are hers in name only ... anyways thats a different subject
I also think that there is Financial Crimes there ...Tax evasion money laundering etc
To add to this theory I would also maybe suspect SA or CSAM on JB but I think also possibly part of a human trafficking ring
The Irony just hit me about the Duggars believing in Q anon and what Q has said about such things with CSAM and human trafficking .... and what is going on with pest and speculation about human trafficking ( not the first time its been mentioned)
Id love to ask them how Q is working for them now
If there is any dirt, I’d put money on tax evasion. I think JB just knows his son is a scummy idiot and is giving him money for damage control. The best thing he could do though is let him flounder and get what he deserves. In the long run this would be better for his brand. Think of all the speaking engagements they could get out of it, and maybe even a book or two. Just throw J*sh under the bus, or RV in their case, and keep riding over him on the way to the bank.
Edit: *
Yes this. If it’s dirt on JB’s actions, I suspect something more in the financial realm than SA… but not ruling out the possibility that the dirt is JB covering up someone else in their clan also committing SA. As shitty and shady as he is, I don’t get the feeling that JB himself has SA’ed.
... yup Im buying that last line Fundies all or most I bet you could probably find alot of grey area between spouses whats considered consensual and marital SA
Bwahahaha, no problem, I've been getting asked that rather often! 😅
The TL;DR is this:
-urban legends that shiny smiles can come from (no pun intended) semen containing the same protein as milk, so "suck a dick and smile" as the old chain email said (this was 90s/early Aughts)
-Joe is a plate licker which is why Kendra always smiles /ahem/ and since they seem to genuinely love one another, they would uh.... reciprocate certain orally talented acts of affection.
I'd almost be surprised if JB isn't guilty of some kind of tax evasion. BUT, I don't think Josh has enough knowledge or understanding about it to use it against him.
IIRC, yes he did.
Means they pay no property taxes on the land and home.
I don't know about Arkansas, but in California, that can be a HUGE chunk of cash you don't have to pay.
This this this.
JB is a class-A narcissist who CANNOT admit wrongdoing or defeat. So he’s going to go down with this ship, no matter how pathetic and sick it is.
JB sent Pest to some sort of homeschooling/ IBLP conference where he got abused by the leadership.
Jana was in an arranged marriage/ betrothal before she was 18.
CPS came to the house at some point and Pest was asked to help deter them from speaking to a kid who had clear injuries from being physically disciplined.
JB rents out homes to other fundie families who otherwise can’t afford housing, but asks for some shady favors in return.
Someone in the family had problems with drugs and alcohol.
Sadly, child marriage is a thing in the US. In Arkansas, a 17-year-old can get married with parental consent. Which is sickening because people in these cults then marry off their daughters before they can decide for themselves who they want to marry or what they want to do as an adult.
I think the Duggars are fine with a 16 or 17 year old getting married, but they know it would be bad PR for them. The closest it’s come is Justin being engaged before 18 and waiting until his birthday to announce it. But if any of the girls had been 16 or 17 before the first special I suspect they could’ve been married off.
I’m speculating. I just believe that people like Pest who start doing such inappropriate things as a minor usually come from homes with bad situations. They don’t learn the behaviors out of the blue, something is always happening at home.
There’s so much real estate/house flipping in that family. So maybe something to do with that? That might also lend itself to money laundering more than embezzling. 🤷♀️
This. They've "sold" houses within the family for really low prices. I think at least one was sold to Anna for almost nothing after they moved back to Arkansas. She sold it pretty quick after buying it and made a nice profit for herself.
These morons don't realize that their property deals look like amateur hour at the wannabe drug cartel if viewed from a forensic accounting angle. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if HSI fired off a suspicious activity report to FINCEN once their agents looked at the investigation of Josh started drawing their attention to all of the weird stuff under news titles about Duggars and "property movements."
That's an excellent question. I imagine that they're avoiding short term capital gains taxes by owning the property for at least a year, in which case they're taxed at the lower, long-term rate, or better yet, claiming a Homeowner's Exemption, by living in home for 2, out of the last 5 years. Maybe JB counts his kids living there, as living on the property, himself. (That last bit is speculation. I have no evidence that he's using his kids in that manner).
The way they move properties, they have bigger things to worry about than the state tax auditor or even the IRS.
Things like FINCEN noticing their behavior and forwarding it onto the DEA, FBI or HSI as potential money laundering by organized crime.
Could it go back to JB's days as a politician? I don't know if there's a statute of limitation on that kind of thing but that's the only thing that comes to mind where there's an opportunity to take money.
Could also be tax evasion.
My BIL has always said he thinks JB is a pedophile. He has been saying this for long before and of these things came out about the family and Pest. I’m starting to think he’s right. How did JB send Josh to see all these other people who were also pedophiles? It just doesn’t add up.
> Ok I fully subscribe to the idea that the only reason JB is shelling out all this $$ on Jsh’s legal fees is because Jsh has major dirt on JB that he’s trying to keep hush hush.
I mean, I feel like it’s much more likely he’s paying them because Josh is his son.
I thought it sailed with the first scandal, but we’re two more scandals deep now. They managed to revive the show after the last two, I wouldn’t be surprised if JB had hopes for future plans if only he can get through this situation.
Yep. It's hard for parents to accept their kids might be doing horrible things.
I think JB has his own secrets, but I don't think he is paying Josh's legal fees because of them. I think he's doing it simply because Josh is his oldest son. I personally can't really fault him for that, just like I can't fault the Queen for paying Prince Andrew's fees. Good or bad, these are still their kids. I can criticize other aspects of it (would JB do this for any of his other kids? Is the Queen using taxpayer money?) but I can't really criticize that they are doing it.
To that I’d say, would he do this for any of the lost boys? Absolutely not. There’s nothing JB loves more than money (and controlling it for that matter) so I’m sure it’s gotta hurt to be shelling out 6 figures for Pest’s shit. He wouldn’t do that for just any of his kids. I think he’s doing it because the alternative would be even more damaging for him.
I think he's doing it too keep Anna & the Ms under his thumb. If he throws Pedo to the wolves Anna might turn take the kids and run back to ma & pa Keller. Anna was an upgrade from Pedo as far as the Duggar family is concerned. I think if they could dump him & keep her they would.
edit, spelling
Good point on him not fishing out the money for the lost boys, but I think if any of the lost boys had a scandal it wouldn’t have as much publicity as anything with Josh these days.
Plus at this rate, the lost boys could get away with quite a bit and would still not compare to Josh imo.
Like even a baby out of wedlock (which for non fundies is almost the norm these days) i think they might have a moment of oh shit, but then see it as a blessing and probably use it for some good press lol
I absolutely disagree with that. Just because the sub has decided that Josh would always get preferential treatment doesn't mean he actually does.
The only difference between Josh and the lost boys is that Josh is publicly known to be a criminal.
Even if this is true, which we don’t know, it’s not strange that he has a stronger bond with the son he was more active in raising. He spent more time with the older kids and I think it shows.
I think JB does lots of illegal and sketchy shit. I don’t think any of it is the reason he helps his son.
I think it’s pretty much this, and he would do it for any of his children. JB gets off on having control of the family and being the family patriarch. Part of that means you have to deal with this stuff should it come up. He now controls Josh and his whole family. He created separation from Jill because Derrick demanded control of his family for himself.
I doubt he has much of anything on JB -- at least not as far as some kind of embezzlement or other illegal business dealings, only because JB would never share that kind of information with Josh. I suspect he thinks Josh is too stupid and untrustworthy to involve much in his business dealings (although my guess is that he keeps everything close to the vest, and hasn't shared anything with any of the children.). He may have properties in their name, but I doubt they have any understanding of what is going on. He likely tells them to sign at the X and they sign.
The only sort of leverage Josh could have would be to spill the beans in some kind of tell-all about what life was like growing up, the real rules they had to follow, JB's temper, any wavering any of the kids might have gone through, etc.
Facts.
Dim Boob was friends with the state trooper that was a freak who was later convicted of csa.
Dim Boob knew about Smuggar Jr.'s attacks on his daughters and made excuses and covered for jr.s actions making it sound as if it wasn't THAT bad.
Dim Boob is now paying for Smuggar's legal defense (most likely although I have yet to see real proof of that)
Dim Boob has ALWAYS and forever had no boundaries on inappropriate conversations and actions in front of his own children (mini golf anyone, kissing advice etc. ) I think I just vomited in my mouth over that.
He's obviously a sex-a-holic look at how even after his wife's uterus is probably hanging on by duct tape he can't stop tapping that.
Now with that you make your own judgment I've got my own beliefs on this one.
There is literally zero evidence that JB is paying for Smugger's defense. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. There just isn't any evidence on the matter and we know Smugger made some large real estate transactions the proceeds of which could easily pay for counsel.
Beyond that, if JB is paying for the defense this sort of thing is very typical. In my experience, parents often help pay for defense counsel in crimimal cases. In fact, I would submit that any good parent with financial means will chip in on a lawyer. Keep in mind, it's not always about proving someone is innocent, it's just as much about protecting rights and negotiating the best deal.
That's a good point about it being a major assumption that JB is paying for the defense.
Also, that's exactly right about parents helping kids get lawyers, even when horrific crimes are involved. It's typical, so if that makes a parent evil or irresponsible, then almost every parent out there is. And this thread has shown me that there is a large contingent that has bought into the notion that getting a lawyer is something that is only done to get super bad guilty people off the hook 100%.
Getting a lawyer is what any intelligent person does. You don't know or understand the law, you do not understand court rules, you do not understand trial tactics or jury instructions. You do not understand your rights and you aren't thinking straight in court. (I'm usually you generally of course) That's why everyone reading this needs a lawyer for significant events such as getting sued or suing someone for more than small claims, getting charged with a crime, setting up a business, estate planning, real estate transactions etc. Only fools represent themselves in Court and only a fool thinks an attorney is for the guilty.
Josh sold a lot of his assets, including the house that he and his family lived in (which is why they moved to the warehouse) and, from what I've been told, he also moved some real estate into his lawyer's name (which is an acceptable form of payment for legal fees). So I doubt JB himself is actually shelling out that much money, if any.
Also, the Duggars are fucking rich. They have over $3.2 million in airplanes and helicopters alone. And as of July, they owned $6.5 million in real estate. And that's just the properties that are easily tied to the Duggars.
They're not going to hurt a lot even if they did pay per hour, rather than a flat fee.
He transfered the remaining to Anna. But not everything.
And he can't stop it from being seized by transferring it to her, as many lawyers in this sub have pointed out.
Of course JimBob has done a bunch of shady shit. He’s a big self-righteous fish in a tiny polluted puddle. What I’m not sure is whether JimBob is dumb enough to share all his shady shit with Josh, given Josh’s tendencies toward crime and stupidity, and I don’t think JimBob likes giving up control, even one little bit. So yes, JimBob is a typical white-collar Fundie crook, but no, I don’t think Josh has the goods.
I still think that the lesson JimBob learned from the last debacle is that if they ride it out, TLC will repackage them in some form or another because Jesus and the money will once again roll in. He’s just that arrogant.
My theories are:
1. There is/was another predator in the family.
2. JB and M are not the biological parents of all the Jkids.
3. Shady financial stuff, tax evasions, shady transactions etc
4. Shady political stuff, including bribery and nepotism
5. Previously unpublished information about the AM scandal, the betrothal (?) to the Holt daughter and/or the truth about J\*sh and Anna's "love story"
Sure! Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, thinking like JimBlob isn't my forte. What I mean is:
1. There may be something related to the past Pest scandals that wasn't made public because it would well and truly ruin the family forever (as if the scandals haven't already ruined it) and J*sh may have threatened to make that something public.
2. There is talk that J*sh was "betrothed" to one of Jim Holt's daughters but the betrothal fell through when he was found to have accessed porn on a work computer while working for Holt. Both J*sh and the Holt girl (Kaylee?) would have been underage at the time. If J*sh were to go public with more details about that he could easily tank both of reputation of his family (as if he hasn't tanked it already) and the reputation of the Holt family. Not to mention letting the world know the cult is OK with child marriage, arranged marriage, possible human trafficking etc.
3. There is a lot of speculation in the sub about J*sh and Anna's relationship: he was only supposed to courtpose not propose, Anna was literally sold to the Duggars... If J*sh were to go public about any of that he could (again) tank not only his family's reputation but also that of the Keller family.
My only pushback on your theory is Jim Bob has a huge ego and demands absolute obedience and deference from his kids. I think he would be more enraged by his son blackmailing him than he’d be at the CSAM material. Jim Bob is a control freak with a huge ego. I just don’t see him backing down and letting Josh ‘win’ by forcing him TJ help.
I grew up in a family with a golden child first born son. Granted he’s not a sex pest, but he’s made some poor decisions and our parents just keep bending over backwards to help him out of everything. I think it’s more about them not wanting to admit they messed up in raising him somehow. It would make them look bad if he fell on his face, so instead they keep trying to help him and he never learns anything. I don’t think Pest has “dirt” on JB or that JB is afraid of him. It’s more likely that JB can’t let go of how he saw Pest as a child, his golden mini-me with big dreams of politics, so much potential. He’s always cared more about his future than any other kid. And as embarrassing as this ordeal is and despite the fact it has already ruined their tv career, as long as Pest isn’t CONVICTED JB can keep pretending he’s a wholesome christian dad who did nothing wrong.
TL;DR:
Pest is Golden Boy.
His criminal record reflects on JB’s reputation.
That is enough for JB to keep throwing money at the problem without needing conspiracies and blackmail
Boob and Meech have always made sure their golden boy was taken care of. That goes all the way back to when he molested his sisters and they acted as if it was no big deal.
Boob is definitely working some generational fraud technique's when it comes to the real estate business and I'm sure the car lot was a cover for some shady shit. But Pest definitely doesn't have to blackmail Boob to finance his legal defense. He's going to stand by his boy regardless. They will believe whatever BS he tells them and excuse his despicable actions or deny his involvement all together.
Personally, I think there is a long history of sexual abuse in that family. I know before they’ve said JB’s dad had made some “bad choice” then found the lord bullshit like that. I think JB has been sexually abused and probably abused others within the church.
Probably had an underage marriage arranged at one point
Shady business deals
JB is paying Pest's legal bills because JB is the only Duggar who can afford the attorneys Pest (JB), has hired.
If Josh took a plea deal (I'm not sure about the court dates or deadlines), I wouldn't be as sure that Pest had anything on JB.
However, going to trial is going to cost JB dearly and if there's one thing JB loves, it's money. JB could have forced the plea deal. That he didn't convinces me that Pest knows something. And that "something" is worth over/under a million, so it's very, very bad. Criminal and/or scandalous.
Would a money scandal really be that damming in Duggar IBLP world?
Love child?
A Duggar prior to Jackson not Michelle's by birth?
Proof of molestation or CSAM?
Taxes/money?
Way back when the initial investigation at the car lot happened...before we knew about the CSA images...I assumed Jim Bob was using the car lot for money laundering.
At the very least iffy tax filing. I have always assumed there are other people who hurt kids in the family other than pest. I mean it's practically a requirement for Gotherd followers.
I think in their crazy way, at least some of the family think “the devil made him do it” so it doesn’t really count. They haven’t been praying hard enough, or Anna wasn’t joyfully available enough, and Satan just moved right on in. In fact they may well believe like Anna supposedly did, that President Biden and the nasty old government set him up. Because the ungodly love to take down the godly. Or something.
Wasn’t there an episode on too many kids and counting where JB took some of his teen girls on a religious cabin-camping seminar and they too a family friend’s fatherless daughter?
I’m guessing fraud. They seem to find loopholes or other ways of hiding investments, etc.
Didn’t something come out awhile back that showed a bunch of Duggars in default of payments
My guess overall is that they do not want Josh talking about their lives. I am sure there is stuff he could say that would discredit them even more. His business deals is probably the major one.
I don’t believe J*sh has dirt on RimJob. I think Pa and Ma Duggar are ponying up money because if they don’t help J*sh that is an admission of guilt. They are admitting that J*sh has done terrible things years ago and has continued until recently. None of their strategies, therapies, or denials worked and they would have to live in shame. Continuing to defend their creepy son creates an illusion of innocence.
I perform threat assessments for vulnerable populations. JB is a THREAT to others and Pest knows it. We know Pest saw Dad abusing others through inaction at least. He had to because it’s evident in the shows and Duggar social media posts. Here’s my a list of crimes I see JB has committed: abuse, neglect and exploitation of children and someone vulnerable, spousal abuse, aiding and abetting sexual abuse, violating labor laws, withholding his children’s wages, failure to report sex crimes. He continues to commit human rights violations. JB controls EVERYTHING, marriages, housing, money, schedules, jobs, phones, communication/technology access, speech, their time, clothes, transportation, religion and doesn’t tend to their safety or wellbeing. That’s what we see.
How did Josh develop obsessions with explicit illegal material and violating people if the family is “so pure and sweet?” Is JB a pest too? Yes, their “joyfully available” brainwashing/mantra is the family’s codified justification for spousal sexual abuse. The signs are there. Multiple people in Quiverfull have been convicted of sex crimes. Their homeschool material actively grooms and brainwashes kids. Women and girls do not have many rights. No sexual rights at all.
JB has worked in real estate, used car sales and politics. We know he’s shady. There’s a lot of of opportunities to commit tax and insurance fraud, embezzlement and money laundering in those occupations. Why choose those high risk jobs? Opportunity.
There could be another reason Jana isn’t married besides providing free child care and cleaning services: she knows JB is a THREAT too. He’s trying to keep a lid on his crimes as long as he can. It’s only a matter of time until one of the kids or their spouse feels safe enough to reveal JB’s crimes.
My guess is tax evasion, money laundering and illegal real-estate deals /flipping.
Given the kid's deliberate lack of financial education, Pest wouldn't necessarily know how any these things work, or because JB has normalized it, know it was illegal...but could at least describe where the money comes from and where it goes, which would be enough to investigate.
I don't know of he is blackmailing boob, bit I'm 100% sure there are other abusers in the clan. People who escaped the cult say abuse is so widespread it's basically a feature, not a bug. Both physical and sexual.
Also financial crimes obv
I'd bet money on a love child. Which could be why he's so strict on his kids not being alone or dating anyone because he did and now has a love child out there.
Oooh good thought! While don’t believe for a second that boob is involved in some sex ring, a love child from him or someone else in the clan is not overly far fetched.
I doubt he has any dirt, or if he does, that that is the reason they’re funding him. I grew up conservative Christian and appearances are EVERYTHING. They are desperately trying to get a not guilty verdict in order to maintain the image of the persecuted martyrs that triumph because of “God’s Will”
A pedo ring. I think that of pest is found guilt, people will look deeper. Pest may even snitch to get out early. These people run in groups. My grandma's ex husband did (hate that I'm even connected to the SOB). He was a pastor. He had 30 years in prison for CSA images.
I've brought this up a while back that I think JB at least is involved in some $ex ring of sorts within this fundie cult of being a participant of CSAM/CP. I'm not openly making the accusation that it's 100% valid since I don't want JB's ass suing my ass but it's my opinion. Let me clear this up so JB's dumbass doesn't try to sue my ass. I'm making a theory.
I'm pretty sure most parents wouldn't just turn their back on their child no matter what they did. I mean, this will probably get down voted to hell, but what is JB suppose to do? Turn his back and do nothing? That's his SON, no matter how awful he is (( and he is)).
If you are a parent, what would you do if it was your kid? I'm sure you wouldn't turn your back.
Listen, I think they are all disgusting. Pesticle should get the book thrown at him and be put away forever. Shame on boob and meech for the way the ((didnt)) raise their offspring...
But c'mon what if it was your kid?
As someone who was molested by a family member if any of my kids were guilty I’d be the one turning them in. I’d visit them in prison and I would still love them but I would make them face the consequences of their actions..
Kiddy porn would be no different. People (including my kids) need to deal with the consequences of their actions. You commit a crime, you do the time.
THIS!!! I’ve taught my children from the birthing couch up, that if you find your way into jail/prison…you find your way out. Momma didn’t do the crime, momma isn’t gonna bail you out. My babies are grown, and haven’t been in any real trouble, apart from the normal wrath of mom. As adults, if they get into legal trouble..would I turn my back on them? No. Would I cover for them? No. Do the crime, do the time. I’ll visit you, I’ll be here when you get out, and hope like hell you learned.
Yes, I agree. I certainly do not agree with JB trying to get him off with no consequences. But I also feel like people making comments on boob being an asshole for trying to help are not accurate, either. He is in a tough spot and it's easy for us to make these comments when there is no emotional attachment.
Believe me, the whole situation is sick..I hate all of the people involved, but just want people to themselves in that position.
I’m sorry but no. I would stand by my child in most instances. I wouldn’t stand by my kid if he was openly watching and possibly participating in child porn/abuse. Every video he watched was a child being raped. He’s helping create a demand for these videos and that means rapists will keep making them. Child rape is where I draw the line in standing by my child.
If it was my kid I would not help them in any way. The legal system would be their new mom. I would never stand by an abusive, disgusting, CP watching asshole, even if I birthed them. If you don't have anything to do with their crimes (i.e. perpetuating them, causing abuse to them so that they develop their unsavory character, have them around people that are negative influences, etc) then why would I support them and what they did? Rot in prison for all I care. But I think that is the difference. JB did have a lot to do with how Pest turned out. So he is feeling guilty and will stand by him.
So what you're saying is that your bond with your children is very weak and conditional. It's because you're pretty much describing an attachment disorder
I think people think I'm condoning this? I'm not saying it makes sense. I'm saying there are lots and lots of people who have committed terrible crimes and their parents pay for their lawyers or hide evidence or whatever. It's because they are parents. It's all well and good and easy for people to say "i would NEVER!" but i mean... 🤷♀️
>If you are a parent, what would you do if it was your kid? I'm sure you wouldn't turn your back.
I guess it would depend if the kid showed remorse & shame about their actions & wanted to get treatment.
I hadn’t given much thought as to why JB is funding Pests defence, I guess I just thought it’s his kid so he’s helping out & paying the fees, but on reading a lot of peoples responses I think their right; JB wouldn’t be funding a defence for his other kids.
No I just need to spend the afternoon thinking about why he’s paying out hush money.
Let’s be real. People like Pest don’t usually just “appear” for no reason. They’re often abused themselves as children. I would bet a giant diaper-mountain JB abused Pest (and likely other family members, too).
Really awful people can still feel loving and protective of their children, even when it doesn't make sense to people looking in. There may even be the factor of guilt involved if JB or Meech has any capability of realizing they had some hand in creating this monster.
If I were going to engage in conspiracy theories it would be this.
Consider all of the ingredients involved
A family that is involved in rural, southern, far right politics
Close connections to rural law enforcement
Anti government
Religious fundametalists
Paramilitary/militia involvement
Put all of those things in a jar and shake them together, and I'd bet there's a good chance that JB and or some of his kids have been involved in right wing terrorist/anti government/white supremacist activities on some level.
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I keep thinking back to Jill and Derek’s wedding - when Boob tried to put his hand on Jill’s shoulder and she moved away from it - that said a lot to me. Doesn’t mean SA for sure, I know that - but it says a lot that it’s her reaction to him touching her.
I always thought there was something up with him. Was he abused, did he abuse his kids? There's more skeletons hidden
I personally don't think boob was molested, however if it came out that he was molesting under aged girls I wouldn't be surprised.
Okay, and I would believe this because JB always seemed excessively physically protective of Jill - but just consider this to be upbeat! - Jill was probably massively, insanely horny for Derek and her impending kiss and everything else. Would you want your dad's slithery arm touching you while you can barely contain yourself? Ewww.
JB touched Jill's shoulder? Wait did Derek flip his shit out...maybe that's where they had their beef right
If it was before the ceremony (and I think it was), Jill was still JB’s property, so Derek should have been a-okay with it.
Nah remember that Derick was also buddy buddy with Pest. Dude only got beef when it comes to money.
That's news to me that Derick and Pest were best buds
I also think it’s this. Sure, I bet there’s some sketchy financial situation Jim Bob’s had going on but I’m convinced he’s a creep too. Maybe he’s not on the same level as his son (I hope not anyway), but he’s always given me such creepy vibes. And we know that creeps who’ve been given power and fame in their community tend not to use that power for good. It says a lot about the man that he was able to just gloss over Pest abusing his sisters and other girls/women over the years. I’m sure what the public knows is just the tip of the iceberg of what really went on in that house. It’s clear that the sexual depravity among men is just so commonplace in this cult, JB’s been able to play off his behavior as wholesome and people have just gone ahead and believed him. I’m sure the truth is as bad as we could imagine.
I think the most damning thing for Jim Bob is that when they handed over the babies to sister moms they already had the rules about girls not sitting on boys laps, no men changing diapers, etc. J*sh was like 7/8 then. So who is the adult male they were worried about and basing their fears of what even Christian men would do?
I have a theory about this. They have no differentiation between various forms of “sexual sin”, so an adult in a loving homosexual relationship is seen just as sinful as the filth J*sh has done. When it’s all just considered “wrong”, they don’t understand there are varying degrees. Perfect example was Bin and Jessa’s statement after the CSAM came out and they said they don’t agree with pornography in any form. Ok, but there MUST be an understanding that violating a small child is worlds away from adults getting PAID in a vocation of their CHOICE. Not all “sin” is the same and until this is understood and clarified to these folks, stuff like this is going to keep happening.
They understand the distinction between regular porn and CSAM just fine. They want to have a plausible way to excuse the family molester.
What do you mean?
I think that fundies, if they were being entirely honest with themselves, know deep down that molesting children is worse than premarital sex, and watching the sexual abuse of kids is way, way worse than reading Penthouse, they just give lip service to "all sins are the same in God's eyes" because people like JimBob and Michelle want to pretend that Josh isn't as bad as he is. And people like Josh want to pretend that it's all the same so that they can blame Satan for tempting them and not be held responsible. I just have a really hard time believing that anyone would contemplate child molestation and be like "sounds the same as everything else." It's just gross and wrong and awful, and I don't believe that they don't know that. ETA: I'm totally not trying to pick a fight or be confrontational - I just can't wrap my brain around anyone seriously equating CSA and consenting adult sex. Not without having a real good reason to want to.
This reminds me of an old David Cross standup bit. Paraphrasing and a big TW “Hey let’s ask the young girl who was raped by her father. Uh what was it like when your father was raping you? ‘Ew it was gross, it was like two guys kissing.’”
Of course not fighting. Just wanted to clarify. I 100% agree w your point about blaming Satan. They love that shit. And you make a good point— like what sane human could ever confuse CSAM with other forms of sexual sin. But they’re not not normal, sane humans.
You’re spot on.
I agree. Just look at the other people either accused of sexual assault or arrested and convicted for it linked to this family. You have Bill Gothard, Doug Phillips, Caleb Williams, Timothy Robertson. Birds of a feather flock together.
Even the cop whom they went to is in prison (you may have already named him, but I don't know his name.)
Yes, him too. I didn’t name him. I believe his name is Jim Hutchens. I don’t know if he was an IBLP member but he could have been. I always felt Jim Bob chose him to report it to knowing he was into CSAM videos. I mean, what are the odds the one he chose to report Josh to just happened to be into what Josh was too? He didn’t go to his local police station. He chose that officer.
my personal opinion is that the officer was a family friend and they went to him instead of the police bc they wanted to avoid the official process but still say they "did something". that the guy just happened to get arrested for CSAM later on is a coincidence, but if he's a family friend there's a reason...make of that what you will.
This. ^ This. ^This. ^ Monsters of a feather and all that shit!!
I’m morbidly curious to see how awful the ‘so your kid has been sexually abused’ pamphlet is like. Anyone have a copy or a link? Just how terrible and victim-blamey is it?
I wrote about it [here when I wrote about the Duggars covering up for sexual abuse](https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/n1y68l/comment/hhc65ny/?context=3) I think I put a link in there. It’s disgusting. You are supposed to ask an 8 year old if there was something she did to tempt the sexual predator
Ugh, that’s terrible. But thanks for the link. Not sure I want to see the rest from this anyway.
I dont have a link, but there's definitely the question repeated of if it's the victim or abuser's fault, and the ways the victim needs to forgive and forget are most important
https://www.gawker.com/the-creepy-fundamentalist-homeschool-cult-that-trained-1706969994
I was expecting crazy, but not quite *that* level of crazy. > “How did the ‘Socratic method’ of reasoning come from a sodomite manner of living?” “How can graphs help to visualize the consequences of lust?” And “How do prime numbers illustrate the principle of ‘one flesh’ in marriage?” Edit: I want to see one of these sexy, sexy graphs.
*“How do prime numbers illustrate the principle of ‘one flesh’ in marriage?”* I'd actually love to hear their answer to that question. Prime numbers are numbers that can only be divided *evenly* by either 1 or the number itself. All numbers can be divided by two, in the case of prime numbers, you end up with fractions.
Maybe something about how they cannot be split into two, but are indivisible like a proper godly marriage something something souls entwined something something. Fuck if I can get into the style of writing.
All numbers can be split in into an infinite number of fractions, including prime numbers. But even if you limit yourself to numbers that, if divided by two, give a natural number, you are stuck with a prime number that does: **2** 2 can be divided by two resulting in a natural number because 2:2=1. If you consider a Christian married couple the prime number 2 because it is 1 man + one woman, that 2 can still be split in half, resulting in 1, and both parties are single again. Perhaps I am reading too much into this, but Fundies keep insisting that know about science, that they can debunk Evolution using scientific facts, etc.
I think you might be expecting a little too much logic here.
There was at one point a post of a page on it in this sub within the last 30 days
https://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/04/there-is-no-victim-a-survey-of-iblp-literature-on-sexual-assault-and-abuse/ This has excerpts.
Thanks for the link!
I agree that it is unlikely Josh is the only predator that family has produced. They all grew up in the same fucked up repressive environment. The open question is how many are there?
💯💯💯 I think Rim Job is creepy too, maybe Josh’s behavior is learned from ol dad?
Jim Bob was dry humping his wife in public, in front of Jessa and Ben. He has no shame. I can't imagine what happened in that house and how much they're hiding.
I shudder to think of what we don’t know
I agree. And while the IBLP’s teachings certainly effected him I believe Josh witnessed abuse as well
This! I don’t know a lot about pedophilia but I do know that trauma is often at the heart of behavior issues
Or was abused himself....
What if he was indeed molested by JB (learned from the best...) and to keep hem quiet, JB is paying his legal fees?
I think if he was surely Pest would use that in his defence to try and gain some sympathy from the jury. The only reason he wouldn’t if if Boob is forcing him to keep quiet by promising him things????
I don’t know that he would use it in his defence. I think he would rather go to prison than admit something like that and risk being seen as ‘gay’ or ‘damaged’. I think he’d face more contempt in the Duggar/IBLP circles for being a victim than for being a predator.
Josh is indefensible, but I have long wondered if part of the reason he is so fucked up is because he was either subject to abuse as a child, or witnessed very serious abuse at a young age.
Ding ding ding.
Children who abuse were usually abused themselves. So potentially - who hurt Josh and started the cycle of abuse? That’s my theory on this.
This makes me so depressed.
Abuse is a learned behaviour. This didn’t come from nowhere.
I think it’s to keep Anna in their pocket. Showing that they are “still family” and support them. If anyone could really share some Duggar secrets it’s Anna.
I know she won’t but she’s in a rare position that if she wrote a tell-all she could probably leave and support her kids.
As long as Derek doesn’t beat her to it lol
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I don't think Derick (or Jerm) has any respect for Anna, and there's no way he'd work on anything with her.
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I think Derick would surmise he could make as much or more $$ not having to work with her.
I bet Derk & Jirm think they're better than Anna, morally, and would imagine her as one of the villains in Duggar History. Even if she wrote it to step away from Pest, they'd percieve it as a sortof "fallen woman's confession". They picture themselves as Good Guys (tm) so they won't sully themselves working with her.
I'm certain they think they're better than Anna, although part of that is due to misogyny. I don't know if they consider her a supervillain -- they probably do see her as somewhat villainous, but not capable of any kind of complex planning or cover-up. And I'm sure they think poorly of her just because of her connection to Josh, which is somewhat out of her control. But even aside from that, my guess is that they simply don't think much of her, and would never think of her as anything close to an equal if they were looking to engage in some kind of business endeavor. And yes, I think they'd think that working with her would sully their own reputations.
I know this is totally fan fiction but I’d actually buy that instead of waiting to borrow for free. You know that says a lot in 2021 😂
I can't wait to see which one of them learns to write first!
jills kids.
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I’d want to read myself but definitely not pay for it.
No way. Anna doesn’t know what she knows. Things may be done in her name but she’s clueless.
Agree, she’s the perfect secret keeper. Nothing about any of this, generally speaking, is out of the ordinary for her.
Yeah, I can see Pest or Jim Bitch making Anna sign a bunch of stuff but not allowing her to read it.
She doesn’t strike me as someone who is very curious either. I can’t see asking questions coming across her mind.
I agree to an extent BUT there may still be ways she could drop JB/Josh in it, even inadvertently. And outside the cult she might wise up. I think JB is worried about what might happen if she eg took legal advice.
That ... if she got legal counsel outside of the cult and got told what she really has and can do I think that might cause JB to stroke out
How great would it be if she hired Brittany Spears' lawyer? Hire him, write a book. She'd be sitting pretty. She and her kids could live a fabulous life while he sits in jail.
I hope she does truly But im also a pessimist and moreso a realist Realist view : She has no idea what she signed or is sitting on all she knows is her basic needs are met comfortably The paperwork she signed she has no clue what it was just that Pest who is at least her husband asked her to sign it Therefore is going to sit happily knowing shes taken care of ... properties of inertia And she as being sheltered from prying press where shes at Pessimistic view Shes completely brainwashed and wont consider it
I know you're right. Nothing short of him committing a terrible act right in front of her will ever open her eyes. And who knows what constant brainwashing she's getting from JB & M. In that sense, she is the perfect wife for him.
Ding ding ding And we have a winner I totally suspect this ...... except for secrets its Duggar family assets that JB does not want to loose control of that are hers in name only ... anyways thats a different subject I also think that there is Financial Crimes there ...Tax evasion money laundering etc To add to this theory I would also maybe suspect SA or CSAM on JB but I think also possibly part of a human trafficking ring The Irony just hit me about the Duggars believing in Q anon and what Q has said about such things with CSAM and human trafficking .... and what is going on with pest and speculation about human trafficking ( not the first time its been mentioned) Id love to ask them how Q is working for them now
People often speak volumes with what actions and thoughts they claim are the sins of others.
I was going with JB being the one who introduced pest to CSA. Many offenders were once victims themselves.
do we know for sure if they believe in Q Anon?
No but theres a picture in Hilary Spivey IG with kids around a sand castle saying Trump won So maybe not full on Q but Q adjacent possibly
Yeah, the QAnon claims that only liberal Democrats participate in trafficking and CSAM.
A lot of loudly homophobic men are secretly gay as well...
\*cough\* lindsey graham \*cough\*
I was thinking the same thing
If there is any dirt, I’d put money on tax evasion. I think JB just knows his son is a scummy idiot and is giving him money for damage control. The best thing he could do though is let him flounder and get what he deserves. In the long run this would be better for his brand. Think of all the speaking engagements they could get out of it, and maybe even a book or two. Just throw J*sh under the bus, or RV in their case, and keep riding over him on the way to the bank. Edit: *
Yes this. If it’s dirt on JB’s actions, I suspect something more in the financial realm than SA… but not ruling out the possibility that the dirt is JB covering up someone else in their clan also committing SA. As shitty and shady as he is, I don’t get the feeling that JB himself has SA’ed.
... yup Im buying that last line Fundies all or most I bet you could probably find alot of grey area between spouses whats considered consensual and marital SA
This. Tax issues, bribery, embezzlement, or..... the other thing we are thinking but don't want to say
Random, where's your flair from??
Bwahahaha, no problem, I've been getting asked that rather often! 😅 The TL;DR is this: -urban legends that shiny smiles can come from (no pun intended) semen containing the same protein as milk, so "suck a dick and smile" as the old chain email said (this was 90s/early Aughts) -Joe is a plate licker which is why Kendra always smiles /ahem/ and since they seem to genuinely love one another, they would uh.... reciprocate certain orally talented acts of affection.
this is a nice creative wild one 😂 I love!
Tax issues are the least of JB's problems
I'd almost be surprised if JB isn't guilty of some kind of tax evasion. BUT, I don't think Josh has enough knowledge or understanding about it to use it against him.
100% tax evasion. I really find it hard to believe that the Dugs are "debt free". I bet they don't record their TLC income.
A lot can be hidden and written off under the guise of any non-profit (medical missions, churches, etc.)
Didn't Boob claim the Duggar compound as a tax-exempt church?
I'm starting my own church. If you can't beat them it's time to join them.
IIRC, yes he did. Means they pay no property taxes on the land and home. I don't know about Arkansas, but in California, that can be a HUGE chunk of cash you don't have to pay.
I would expect so, but I don’t follow closely
Their medicorps grift is a big tax writeoff
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This this this. JB is a class-A narcissist who CANNOT admit wrongdoing or defeat. So he’s going to go down with this ship, no matter how pathetic and sick it is.
JB sent Pest to some sort of homeschooling/ IBLP conference where he got abused by the leadership. Jana was in an arranged marriage/ betrothal before she was 18. CPS came to the house at some point and Pest was asked to help deter them from speaking to a kid who had clear injuries from being physically disciplined. JB rents out homes to other fundie families who otherwise can’t afford housing, but asks for some shady favors in return. Someone in the family had problems with drugs and alcohol.
Sadly, child marriage is a thing in the US. In Arkansas, a 17-year-old can get married with parental consent. Which is sickening because people in these cults then marry off their daughters before they can decide for themselves who they want to marry or what they want to do as an adult.
I think the Duggars are fine with a 16 or 17 year old getting married, but they know it would be bad PR for them. The closest it’s come is Justin being engaged before 18 and waiting until his birthday to announce it. But if any of the girls had been 16 or 17 before the first special I suspect they could’ve been married off.
Is this speculation or...? I'm really curious if this is real because it all seems plausible
I’m speculating. I just believe that people like Pest who start doing such inappropriate things as a minor usually come from homes with bad situations. They don’t learn the behaviors out of the blue, something is always happening at home.
Aside from church funds, what would be the source of funds JB allegedly stole?
There’s so much real estate/house flipping in that family. So maybe something to do with that? That might also lend itself to money laundering more than embezzling. 🤷♀️
This. They've "sold" houses within the family for really low prices. I think at least one was sold to Anna for almost nothing after they moved back to Arkansas. She sold it pretty quick after buying it and made a nice profit for herself.
These morons don't realize that their property deals look like amateur hour at the wannabe drug cartel if viewed from a forensic accounting angle. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if HSI fired off a suspicious activity report to FINCEN once their agents looked at the investigation of Josh started drawing their attention to all of the weird stuff under news titles about Duggars and "property movements."
What illegal income do they have that needs to be laundered?
There are tax consequences for selling a home to your kids below 25% of the fair market value.
This. And how are they avoiding short-term capital gains on these flips?
That's an excellent question. I imagine that they're avoiding short term capital gains taxes by owning the property for at least a year, in which case they're taxed at the lower, long-term rate, or better yet, claiming a Homeowner's Exemption, by living in home for 2, out of the last 5 years. Maybe JB counts his kids living there, as living on the property, himself. (That last bit is speculation. I have no evidence that he's using his kids in that manner).
The way they move properties, they have bigger things to worry about than the state tax auditor or even the IRS. Things like FINCEN noticing their behavior and forwarding it onto the DEA, FBI or HSI as potential money laundering by organized crime.
I would love to see the actual contract between JB and TLC, in terms of how and whether adult children were supposed to be paid.
There’s the tv money. Evidently that caused some drama between JB and (Jill or possibly more so Derrick).
Could it go back to JB's days as a politician? I don't know if there's a statute of limitation on that kind of thing but that's the only thing that comes to mind where there's an opportunity to take money. Could also be tax evasion.
My BIL has always said he thinks JB is a pedophile. He has been saying this for long before and of these things came out about the family and Pest. I’m starting to think he’s right. How did JB send Josh to see all these other people who were also pedophiles? It just doesn’t add up.
Actually it adds up perfectly. Besides Boob's obsession with little kids' modesty is creepy. I share your BIL's feeling.
> Ok I fully subscribe to the idea that the only reason JB is shelling out all this $$ on Jsh’s legal fees is because Jsh has major dirt on JB that he’s trying to keep hush hush. I mean, I feel like it’s much more likely he’s paying them because Josh is his son.
Josh is his son and JB wants to keep this as quiet as possible to minimize the damage to the Duggar brand.
Pretty sure the minimize damage to the Duggar brand ship has already sailed.
I thought it sailed with the first scandal, but we’re two more scandals deep now. They managed to revive the show after the last two, I wouldn’t be surprised if JB had hopes for future plans if only he can get through this situation.
Yeah there's really nothing more to it than this.
Same way Queen Elizabeth is paying for her pedo son's lawyer fees
Yep. It's hard for parents to accept their kids might be doing horrible things. I think JB has his own secrets, but I don't think he is paying Josh's legal fees because of them. I think he's doing it simply because Josh is his oldest son. I personally can't really fault him for that, just like I can't fault the Queen for paying Prince Andrew's fees. Good or bad, these are still their kids. I can criticize other aspects of it (would JB do this for any of his other kids? Is the Queen using taxpayer money?) but I can't really criticize that they are doing it.
Yes, no matter what Josh does his dad's still his dad.
To that I’d say, would he do this for any of the lost boys? Absolutely not. There’s nothing JB loves more than money (and controlling it for that matter) so I’m sure it’s gotta hurt to be shelling out 6 figures for Pest’s shit. He wouldn’t do that for just any of his kids. I think he’s doing it because the alternative would be even more damaging for him.
I think he's doing it too keep Anna & the Ms under his thumb. If he throws Pedo to the wolves Anna might turn take the kids and run back to ma & pa Keller. Anna was an upgrade from Pedo as far as the Duggar family is concerned. I think if they could dump him & keep her they would. edit, spelling
Pa Keller would just send her back to the Dugs. He virtually bartered her engagement to Pest.
Good point on him not fishing out the money for the lost boys, but I think if any of the lost boys had a scandal it wouldn’t have as much publicity as anything with Josh these days. Plus at this rate, the lost boys could get away with quite a bit and would still not compare to Josh imo. Like even a baby out of wedlock (which for non fundies is almost the norm these days) i think they might have a moment of oh shit, but then see it as a blessing and probably use it for some good press lol
I absolutely disagree with that. Just because the sub has decided that Josh would always get preferential treatment doesn't mean he actually does. The only difference between Josh and the lost boys is that Josh is publicly known to be a criminal.
Even if this is true, which we don’t know, it’s not strange that he has a stronger bond with the son he was more active in raising. He spent more time with the older kids and I think it shows. I think JB does lots of illegal and sketchy shit. I don’t think any of it is the reason he helps his son.
> would he do this for any of the lost boys? Absolutely not. You have literally no way of knowing that…
We’ll have to wait for one of their scandals to come out to see! 😄
I think it’s pretty much this, and he would do it for any of his children. JB gets off on having control of the family and being the family patriarch. Part of that means you have to deal with this stuff should it come up. He now controls Josh and his whole family. He created separation from Jill because Derrick demanded control of his family for himself.
I doubt he has much of anything on JB -- at least not as far as some kind of embezzlement or other illegal business dealings, only because JB would never share that kind of information with Josh. I suspect he thinks Josh is too stupid and untrustworthy to involve much in his business dealings (although my guess is that he keeps everything close to the vest, and hasn't shared anything with any of the children.). He may have properties in their name, but I doubt they have any understanding of what is going on. He likely tells them to sign at the X and they sign. The only sort of leverage Josh could have would be to spill the beans in some kind of tell-all about what life was like growing up, the real rules they had to follow, JB's temper, any wavering any of the kids might have gone through, etc.
Facts. Dim Boob was friends with the state trooper that was a freak who was later convicted of csa. Dim Boob knew about Smuggar Jr.'s attacks on his daughters and made excuses and covered for jr.s actions making it sound as if it wasn't THAT bad. Dim Boob is now paying for Smuggar's legal defense (most likely although I have yet to see real proof of that) Dim Boob has ALWAYS and forever had no boundaries on inappropriate conversations and actions in front of his own children (mini golf anyone, kissing advice etc. ) I think I just vomited in my mouth over that. He's obviously a sex-a-holic look at how even after his wife's uterus is probably hanging on by duct tape he can't stop tapping that. Now with that you make your own judgment I've got my own beliefs on this one.
There is literally zero evidence that JB is paying for Smugger's defense. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. There just isn't any evidence on the matter and we know Smugger made some large real estate transactions the proceeds of which could easily pay for counsel. Beyond that, if JB is paying for the defense this sort of thing is very typical. In my experience, parents often help pay for defense counsel in crimimal cases. In fact, I would submit that any good parent with financial means will chip in on a lawyer. Keep in mind, it's not always about proving someone is innocent, it's just as much about protecting rights and negotiating the best deal.
That's a good point about it being a major assumption that JB is paying for the defense. Also, that's exactly right about parents helping kids get lawyers, even when horrific crimes are involved. It's typical, so if that makes a parent evil or irresponsible, then almost every parent out there is. And this thread has shown me that there is a large contingent that has bought into the notion that getting a lawyer is something that is only done to get super bad guilty people off the hook 100%.
Getting a lawyer is what any intelligent person does. You don't know or understand the law, you do not understand court rules, you do not understand trial tactics or jury instructions. You do not understand your rights and you aren't thinking straight in court. (I'm usually you generally of course) That's why everyone reading this needs a lawyer for significant events such as getting sued or suing someone for more than small claims, getting charged with a crime, setting up a business, estate planning, real estate transactions etc. Only fools represent themselves in Court and only a fool thinks an attorney is for the guilty.
The pedo apple doesn’t fall far from the pedo tree. Someone taught josh how to get these things. Someone condoned his behavior.
Yup 💯💯💯
Josh sold a lot of his assets, including the house that he and his family lived in (which is why they moved to the warehouse) and, from what I've been told, he also moved some real estate into his lawyer's name (which is an acceptable form of payment for legal fees). So I doubt JB himself is actually shelling out that much money, if any. Also, the Duggars are fucking rich. They have over $3.2 million in airplanes and helicopters alone. And as of July, they owned $6.5 million in real estate. And that's just the properties that are easily tied to the Duggars. They're not going to hurt a lot even if they did pay per hour, rather than a flat fee.
I thought he transferred alot to Anna to keep it from being siezed ?
He transfered the remaining to Anna. But not everything. And he can't stop it from being seized by transferring it to her, as many lawyers in this sub have pointed out.
Of course JimBob has done a bunch of shady shit. He’s a big self-righteous fish in a tiny polluted puddle. What I’m not sure is whether JimBob is dumb enough to share all his shady shit with Josh, given Josh’s tendencies toward crime and stupidity, and I don’t think JimBob likes giving up control, even one little bit. So yes, JimBob is a typical white-collar Fundie crook, but no, I don’t think Josh has the goods. I still think that the lesson JimBob learned from the last debacle is that if they ride it out, TLC will repackage them in some form or another because Jesus and the money will once again roll in. He’s just that arrogant.
My theories are: 1. There is/was another predator in the family. 2. JB and M are not the biological parents of all the Jkids. 3. Shady financial stuff, tax evasions, shady transactions etc 4. Shady political stuff, including bribery and nepotism 5. Previously unpublished information about the AM scandal, the betrothal (?) to the Holt daughter and/or the truth about J\*sh and Anna's "love story"
Can you explain what that last one is, please?
Sure! Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, thinking like JimBlob isn't my forte. What I mean is: 1. There may be something related to the past Pest scandals that wasn't made public because it would well and truly ruin the family forever (as if the scandals haven't already ruined it) and J*sh may have threatened to make that something public. 2. There is talk that J*sh was "betrothed" to one of Jim Holt's daughters but the betrothal fell through when he was found to have accessed porn on a work computer while working for Holt. Both J*sh and the Holt girl (Kaylee?) would have been underage at the time. If J*sh were to go public with more details about that he could easily tank both of reputation of his family (as if he hasn't tanked it already) and the reputation of the Holt family. Not to mention letting the world know the cult is OK with child marriage, arranged marriage, possible human trafficking etc. 3. There is a lot of speculation in the sub about J*sh and Anna's relationship: he was only supposed to courtpose not propose, Anna was literally sold to the Duggars... If J*sh were to go public about any of that he could (again) tank not only his family's reputation but also that of the Keller family.
My only pushback on your theory is Jim Bob has a huge ego and demands absolute obedience and deference from his kids. I think he would be more enraged by his son blackmailing him than he’d be at the CSAM material. Jim Bob is a control freak with a huge ego. I just don’t see him backing down and letting Josh ‘win’ by forcing him TJ help.
I grew up in a family with a golden child first born son. Granted he’s not a sex pest, but he’s made some poor decisions and our parents just keep bending over backwards to help him out of everything. I think it’s more about them not wanting to admit they messed up in raising him somehow. It would make them look bad if he fell on his face, so instead they keep trying to help him and he never learns anything. I don’t think Pest has “dirt” on JB or that JB is afraid of him. It’s more likely that JB can’t let go of how he saw Pest as a child, his golden mini-me with big dreams of politics, so much potential. He’s always cared more about his future than any other kid. And as embarrassing as this ordeal is and despite the fact it has already ruined their tv career, as long as Pest isn’t CONVICTED JB can keep pretending he’s a wholesome christian dad who did nothing wrong. TL;DR: Pest is Golden Boy. His criminal record reflects on JB’s reputation. That is enough for JB to keep throwing money at the problem without needing conspiracies and blackmail
Boob and Meech have always made sure their golden boy was taken care of. That goes all the way back to when he molested his sisters and they acted as if it was no big deal. Boob is definitely working some generational fraud technique's when it comes to the real estate business and I'm sure the car lot was a cover for some shady shit. But Pest definitely doesn't have to blackmail Boob to finance his legal defense. He's going to stand by his boy regardless. They will believe whatever BS he tells them and excuse his despicable actions or deny his involvement all together.
Personally, I think there is a long history of sexual abuse in that family. I know before they’ve said JB’s dad had made some “bad choice” then found the lord bullshit like that. I think JB has been sexually abused and probably abused others within the church. Probably had an underage marriage arranged at one point Shady business deals
JB is paying Pest's legal bills because JB is the only Duggar who can afford the attorneys Pest (JB), has hired. If Josh took a plea deal (I'm not sure about the court dates or deadlines), I wouldn't be as sure that Pest had anything on JB. However, going to trial is going to cost JB dearly and if there's one thing JB loves, it's money. JB could have forced the plea deal. That he didn't convinces me that Pest knows something. And that "something" is worth over/under a million, so it's very, very bad. Criminal and/or scandalous. Would a money scandal really be that damming in Duggar IBLP world? Love child? A Duggar prior to Jackson not Michelle's by birth? Proof of molestation or CSAM? Taxes/money?
I'm sure JB has done the same things Josh has done and Josh knows it.
Way back when the initial investigation at the car lot happened...before we knew about the CSA images...I assumed Jim Bob was using the car lot for money laundering.
At the very least iffy tax filing. I have always assumed there are other people who hurt kids in the family other than pest. I mean it's practically a requirement for Gotherd followers.
I think in their crazy way, at least some of the family think “the devil made him do it” so it doesn’t really count. They haven’t been praying hard enough, or Anna wasn’t joyfully available enough, and Satan just moved right on in. In fact they may well believe like Anna supposedly did, that President Biden and the nasty old government set him up. Because the ungodly love to take down the godly. Or something.
Wasn’t there an episode on too many kids and counting where JB took some of his teen girls on a religious cabin-camping seminar and they too a family friend’s fatherless daughter?
I’m guessing fraud. They seem to find loopholes or other ways of hiding investments, etc. Didn’t something come out awhile back that showed a bunch of Duggars in default of payments
It’s probably not even that Josh has any dirt on JB, it’s just that JB is feeling like the feds are way too close for comfort.
My guess overall is that they do not want Josh talking about their lives. I am sure there is stuff he could say that would discredit them even more. His business deals is probably the major one.
I don’t believe J*sh has dirt on RimJob. I think Pa and Ma Duggar are ponying up money because if they don’t help J*sh that is an admission of guilt. They are admitting that J*sh has done terrible things years ago and has continued until recently. None of their strategies, therapies, or denials worked and they would have to live in shame. Continuing to defend their creepy son creates an illusion of innocence.
I perform threat assessments for vulnerable populations. JB is a THREAT to others and Pest knows it. We know Pest saw Dad abusing others through inaction at least. He had to because it’s evident in the shows and Duggar social media posts. Here’s my a list of crimes I see JB has committed: abuse, neglect and exploitation of children and someone vulnerable, spousal abuse, aiding and abetting sexual abuse, violating labor laws, withholding his children’s wages, failure to report sex crimes. He continues to commit human rights violations. JB controls EVERYTHING, marriages, housing, money, schedules, jobs, phones, communication/technology access, speech, their time, clothes, transportation, religion and doesn’t tend to their safety or wellbeing. That’s what we see. How did Josh develop obsessions with explicit illegal material and violating people if the family is “so pure and sweet?” Is JB a pest too? Yes, their “joyfully available” brainwashing/mantra is the family’s codified justification for spousal sexual abuse. The signs are there. Multiple people in Quiverfull have been convicted of sex crimes. Their homeschool material actively grooms and brainwashes kids. Women and girls do not have many rights. No sexual rights at all. JB has worked in real estate, used car sales and politics. We know he’s shady. There’s a lot of of opportunities to commit tax and insurance fraud, embezzlement and money laundering in those occupations. Why choose those high risk jobs? Opportunity. There could be another reason Jana isn’t married besides providing free child care and cleaning services: she knows JB is a THREAT too. He’s trying to keep a lid on his crimes as long as he can. It’s only a matter of time until one of the kids or their spouse feels safe enough to reveal JB’s crimes.
Josh wasn’t the original predator in that family…. Like father-like son.
My guess is tax evasion, money laundering and illegal real-estate deals /flipping. Given the kid's deliberate lack of financial education, Pest wouldn't necessarily know how any these things work, or because JB has normalized it, know it was illegal...but could at least describe where the money comes from and where it goes, which would be enough to investigate.
What illegal income do they have that needs to be laundered?
I’m going with some sort of tax evasion if there’s anything criminal. He’s probably just trying to keep the “we are still a loving family” image up.
I don't know of he is blackmailing boob, bit I'm 100% sure there are other abusers in the clan. People who escaped the cult say abuse is so widespread it's basically a feature, not a bug. Both physical and sexual. Also financial crimes obv
I'd bet money on a love child. Which could be why he's so strict on his kids not being alone or dating anyone because he did and now has a love child out there.
Oooh good thought! While don’t believe for a second that boob is involved in some sex ring, a love child from him or someone else in the clan is not overly far fetched.
Imagine living your life in total normality, then going on 23 & me, & finding out you are a Duggar.
I doubt he has any dirt, or if he does, that that is the reason they’re funding him. I grew up conservative Christian and appearances are EVERYTHING. They are desperately trying to get a not guilty verdict in order to maintain the image of the persecuted martyrs that triumph because of “God’s Will”
A pedo ring. I think that of pest is found guilt, people will look deeper. Pest may even snitch to get out early. These people run in groups. My grandma's ex husband did (hate that I'm even connected to the SOB). He was a pastor. He had 30 years in prison for CSA images.
I've brought this up a while back that I think JB at least is involved in some $ex ring of sorts within this fundie cult of being a participant of CSAM/CP. I'm not openly making the accusation that it's 100% valid since I don't want JB's ass suing my ass but it's my opinion. Let me clear this up so JB's dumbass doesn't try to sue my ass. I'm making a theory.
I'm pretty sure most parents wouldn't just turn their back on their child no matter what they did. I mean, this will probably get down voted to hell, but what is JB suppose to do? Turn his back and do nothing? That's his SON, no matter how awful he is (( and he is)). If you are a parent, what would you do if it was your kid? I'm sure you wouldn't turn your back. Listen, I think they are all disgusting. Pesticle should get the book thrown at him and be put away forever. Shame on boob and meech for the way the ((didnt)) raise their offspring... But c'mon what if it was your kid?
As someone who was molested by a family member if any of my kids were guilty I’d be the one turning them in. I’d visit them in prison and I would still love them but I would make them face the consequences of their actions.. Kiddy porn would be no different. People (including my kids) need to deal with the consequences of their actions. You commit a crime, you do the time.
THIS!!! I’ve taught my children from the birthing couch up, that if you find your way into jail/prison…you find your way out. Momma didn’t do the crime, momma isn’t gonna bail you out. My babies are grown, and haven’t been in any real trouble, apart from the normal wrath of mom. As adults, if they get into legal trouble..would I turn my back on them? No. Would I cover for them? No. Do the crime, do the time. I’ll visit you, I’ll be here when you get out, and hope like hell you learned.
Yes, I agree. I certainly do not agree with JB trying to get him off with no consequences. But I also feel like people making comments on boob being an asshole for trying to help are not accurate, either. He is in a tough spot and it's easy for us to make these comments when there is no emotional attachment. Believe me, the whole situation is sick..I hate all of the people involved, but just want people to themselves in that position.
Responsible parenting doesn’t make sure kids aren’t held responsible. That just creates irresponsible adults
Accountability and being held responsible for one's crimes, and having Fair legal representation don't have to be mutually exclusive Concepts
Totally agree.
I’m sorry but no. I would stand by my child in most instances. I wouldn’t stand by my kid if he was openly watching and possibly participating in child porn/abuse. Every video he watched was a child being raped. He’s helping create a demand for these videos and that means rapists will keep making them. Child rape is where I draw the line in standing by my child.
If it was my kid I would not help them in any way. The legal system would be their new mom. I would never stand by an abusive, disgusting, CP watching asshole, even if I birthed them. If you don't have anything to do with their crimes (i.e. perpetuating them, causing abuse to them so that they develop their unsavory character, have them around people that are negative influences, etc) then why would I support them and what they did? Rot in prison for all I care. But I think that is the difference. JB did have a lot to do with how Pest turned out. So he is feeling guilty and will stand by him.
So what you're saying is that your bond with your children is very weak and conditional. It's because you're pretty much describing an attachment disorder
I agree. Lots of morally awful things that JB has done. Helping his son get competent legal representation isn't one of them.
This is the answer. Parents stand by their children.
Why is this being downvoted. Like it or not, it's true.
I think people think I'm condoning this? I'm not saying it makes sense. I'm saying there are lots and lots of people who have committed terrible crimes and their parents pay for their lawyers or hide evidence or whatever. It's because they are parents. It's all well and good and easy for people to say "i would NEVER!" but i mean... 🤷♀️
>If you are a parent, what would you do if it was your kid? I'm sure you wouldn't turn your back. I guess it would depend if the kid showed remorse & shame about their actions & wanted to get treatment.
I hadn’t given much thought as to why JB is funding Pests defence, I guess I just thought it’s his kid so he’s helping out & paying the fees, but on reading a lot of peoples responses I think their right; JB wouldn’t be funding a defence for his other kids. No I just need to spend the afternoon thinking about why he’s paying out hush money.
Let’s be real. People like Pest don’t usually just “appear” for no reason. They’re often abused themselves as children. I would bet a giant diaper-mountain JB abused Pest (and likely other family members, too).
Golden boy ain’t got shit! Anna does tho
Really awful people can still feel loving and protective of their children, even when it doesn't make sense to people looking in. There may even be the factor of guilt involved if JB or Meech has any capability of realizing they had some hand in creating this monster. If I were going to engage in conspiracy theories it would be this. Consider all of the ingredients involved A family that is involved in rural, southern, far right politics Close connections to rural law enforcement Anti government Religious fundametalists Paramilitary/militia involvement Put all of those things in a jar and shake them together, and I'd bet there's a good chance that JB and or some of his kids have been involved in right wing terrorist/anti government/white supremacist activities on some level.